From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 1 04:36:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j418aDV0026902 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 04:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j418ZUWj014044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 May 2005 02:35:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j418ZIVG074541; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j418ZF86074515 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 28055 invoked from network); 1 May 2005 08:35:08 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 01:35:08 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 1 May 2005 01:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1751.24.4.69.40.1114936514.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <200505010312.j413CtvM026222@net.indra.com> References: <200505010312.j413CtvM026222@net.indra.com> Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 01:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Use of fur on sideless gowns From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I will have fun making this gown... > > Becky Becky, One word of advice.... ...don't use red velveteen. Once, many years ago, I made a tunic out of red velveteen with bell sleeves lined in white rabbit fur. I also put rabbit fur around the neck. It quickly earned me the nickname "Mrs. Claus" and I couldn't bear to wear it any more!! Wish I had a picture to share because now I think that it is *too* funny! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 1 06:50:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j41AoL55031957 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 06:50:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j41AnbWj029096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 May 2005 04:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41AnSEl032412; Sun, 1 May 2005 04:49:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j41AnPb2032366 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 04:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 71533 invoked by uid 60001); 1 May 2005 10:49:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20050501104919.71531.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.142.201] by web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 May 2005 11:49:19 BST Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 11:49:19 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trim - prefabricated braid frogging - help? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote:At 23:00 30/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: >Suugestions for suppliers of "prefabricated braid frogging closures" would >be very welcome. SNIP Kleins - haberdashery and craft supplies Barnett Lawson - huge range of braids, ribbons, buttons, feathers and trimmings Little Trimmings - small scale trimmings and lace, and a very helpful lady All the above have links on my web pages together with other suppliers of fabrics etc. Kleins and Barnett Lawson would be my first choices - Little Trimmings is probably more suitable for toys and dolls. REPLY Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking-for, - TYVM for your prompt response, and the Links therein. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 1 11:11:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j41FBisF000872 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 11:11:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j41FAOWj005821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 May 2005 09:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41FACwL058602; Sun, 1 May 2005 09:10:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j41FABrw058536 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 09:10:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBHK6KUAGFFHSJ for (sender ); Sun, 1 May 2005 08:09:38 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7shLVstp1uM0ntZECOcmkVUOvRpVOQ4f6g== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KRW3XMKE; Sun, 01 May 2005 08:09:35 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 10:09:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] removing grease on clothes Message-ID: <20050501.100926.-324779.0.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,20-21,26-27,33-34 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 12:6:2005320973 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I would have thought that removing the kind of auto-lubricating > grease mentioned by a previous Lister, - would require lots of > highly-distilled denatured alcohol, or a very-refined White Spirit > or lots of Carbon Tetrachloride; - basically because - as I see that > problem, - the only remedy is to keep-on "flushing" the grease > stain,- and blotting-up the emulsified/disolved grease must > continue until the cleansing agent is coming-away clean. > Maybe a Lister who has had experience in the "Dry Cleaning" Trade > could add some comment? I know perchloroethelene (aka "perk", and I'm not guaranteeing the spelling from memory) is used both as a dry cleaning solvent and as an industrial de-greaser. However, at least in the US, you won't be able to buy some for home use. Government regulations, you know -- breathing in too much of the fumes will make you sick, and based on one animal test that AFAIK no one else has been able to reproduce it's on the "possible carcinogen" list. Besides, it's expensive. I've never worked anywhere that used petroleum solvent or the new liquid CO2 method; if the news articles on CO2 are accurate there's no way you're doing _that_ at home due to the high pressures needed to keep it liquid. I don't know if you could get some petroleum solvent to take home or not. I never did a lot of the dry cleaning, and now that I've been transferred to one of the drop-off locations I'm not doing any. Based on memory, I don't recall the plant manager having to do much pre-spotting on grease stains. The solvent and tumbling in the drum (think oversized front-loader washer) did the work for her. I know among the chemicals on the spotting board were some that would take out any remaining grease stains. When using those, we used a steam gun connected to the boiler to flush the stain, and the board had a vacuum to suck the steam/chemicals/crud away. At home, I'd think spot-treating, flushing with water, and blotting with a towel, repeated as needed, should work. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 1 12:17:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j41GHSLH001307 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 12:17:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j41GGgWj010827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 May 2005 10:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41GGaXE089153; Sun, 1 May 2005 10:16:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41GGYhd089081 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 10:16:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050501161629015004nf6le>; Sun, 1 May 2005 16:16:29 +0000 Received: from [67.168.12.165] by 204.127.197.119; Sun, 01 May 2005 16:16:28 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT: Funny Cats Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 16:16:28 +0000 Message-Id: <050120051616.25015.427500DC000AF888000061B722007614380809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for a great laugh, first thing in the morning! *almost* as good as coffee first thing... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > This is off topic but I know a lot of you have cats... so you will love this! > > http://www.themooseisloose.net/funny_cats.html > (have you volume on when watching) > > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 1 18:13:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j41MDXoM004181 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 18:13:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j41MCeWj011299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 May 2005 16:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41MCTFZ060537; Sun, 1 May 2005 16:12:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail11.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41MCRsG060512 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 16:12:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=sj10u7=TI=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200505012212.j41MCRsG060512@net.indra.com> Received: from scan03.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.233] helo=scan03.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail11.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DSMfr-00065a-8m for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 May 2005 18:12:27 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] ident=exim) by scan03.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DSMfr-0006Tb-2u for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 May 2005 18:12:27 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] helo=authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan03.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DSMfq-0006TY-TD for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 May 2005 18:12:26 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DSMfq-0006G1-7B for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 01 May 2005 18:12:26 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Use of fur on sideless gowns Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 15:12:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <1751.24.4.69.40.1114936514.squirrel@www.inreach.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: AcVOKZ1Siys5M6ewR9aMxpURbIxqiwAcOm5g X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One word of advice.... ...don't use red velveteen. Actually, both the undergown and the sideless gown will be linen. I plan on lining the sideless so it moves nicely over the undergown. As for making one from velveteen... I wonder what fabrics would have been documentable for a sideless? Becky ------------ http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 1 18:23:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j41MNi23004245 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 18:23:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j41MN6Wj012175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 1 May 2005 16:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41MN4Sq065308; Sun, 1 May 2005 16:23:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j41MMxXG065230 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 16:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LNS2C1M4S095MZ7G@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 May 2005 10:22:50 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LNS2C1A16Y8WW46E@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 02 May 2005 10:22:50 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 10:23:48 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Use of fur on sideless gowns In-reply-to: <200505012212.j41MCRsG060512@net.indra.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <427556F4.4040907@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <200505012212.j41MCRsG060512@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Becky @ SewingCity.com wrote: >One word of advice.... > >...don't use red velveteen. > >Actually, both the undergown and the sideless gown will be linen. I plan on >lining the sideless so it moves nicely over the undergown. > >As for making one from velveteen... I wonder what fabrics would have been >documentable for a sideless? > > Broadly, wools and silks. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 08:46:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42CkwTG009899 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 08:46:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42CkFWj029020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 06:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42Ck6BD015144; Mon, 2 May 2005 06:46:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42Ck4QB015051 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 06:46:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (220-253-120-223.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.120.223]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 8796910D377 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:45:53 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:45:29 +1000 Organization: Australian Costume Supply MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Melbourne Fashion Week X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j42CkwTG009899 Status: RO At the opening event of Melbourne International Fashion Week, the big fashion event in Australia, a group of anti-fur protesters staged a demonstration out the front. They were not halted by the fact that no fur was being displayed inside, -C (who eats the insides and wears the outsides). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 14:18:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42IIdK3012152 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:18:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42IHPWj017131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 12:17:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42IH9Ve067568; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:17:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.161]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42IGfDe067136 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:16:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from Webshield2 (unknown [165.248.247.155]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 297BC3F27 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 08:16:38 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by Webshield2 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1115057797380; Mon, 2 May 2005 08:16:37 -1000 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 08:16:37 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing and Textiles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Got a message from Barnes & Noble last night that they had cancelled my order because the book was unavailable :-(. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 14:24:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42IOiw2012191 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:24:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42INrWj018970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 12:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42INkKK073637; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:23:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42INevA073452 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 May 2005 13:23:32 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 13:23:21 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bummer! MC&T Order X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bummer! I just email from Barnes & Noble: Despite our efforts, we were unable to fulfill some or all of the items in your order, as noted below. We have canceled this portion of your order. We are sorry we were unable to complete your order and apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We hope you will return to http://www.bn.com at a later date to see if this merchandise is back in stock. Sincerely, -- Barnes & Noble.com The only item I had on this order was MC&T. When I saw the email in my inbox I had hoped it was to tell me this had shipped so this is a real bummer. Has anyone gotten this from B&N? Thanks, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 14:31:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42IVVOA012236 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:31:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42IUcWj020690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 12:30:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42IUUVH079809; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:30:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42IUIVC079560 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j42IUH7M003629 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:30:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050502142908.00c4cd10@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 14:30:15 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing and Textiles In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So did I... I'm debating ordering it from Amazon... but I recall they had a MUCH higher price on it... ; < grrr. Bridgette / Mari >Got a message from Barnes & Noble last night that they had cancelled my >order because the book was unavailable :-(. Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 14:33:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42IXiNZ012246 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42IX7Wj021371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 12:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42IX5OJ082157; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:33:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j42IX3p4082043 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63484 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2005 18:32:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=LiLrPSRhuuej5athaT6aDtSxoPdPBhqs4LokMZvzJGnW2uTESPdB/WVHzowitBQB5UM+Qh/KqAOqlHp+9u/l58+h1fTShMmZHpOSYJcW7txbZWDnYtqGddTpxCvCutuWdeFwJDCBNMJsieilZICbfSDFfJH+kaVUNZUYdjbbTgo= ; Message-ID: <20050502183258.63482.qmail@web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 May 2005 11:32:58 PDT Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:32:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bummer! MC&T Order To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Me too. I wish I knew why??? Not enough orders to finalize a shipment? I am so bummed, but I'll be ordering it from Boydell & Brewer: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM RATS!!! Chris G. Catherine Kinsey wrote: Bummer! I just email from Barnes & Noble: Despite our efforts, we were unable to fulfill some or all of the items in your order, as noted below. We have canceled this portion of your order. We are sorry we were unable to complete your order and apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. We hope you will return to http://www.bn.com at a later date to see if this merchandise is back in stock. Sincerely, -- Barnes & Noble.com The only item I had on this order was MC&T. When I saw the email in my inbox I had hoped it was to tell me this had shipped so this is a real bummer. Has anyone gotten this from B&N? Thanks, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 15:13:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42JDTDM012729 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 15:13:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42JCcWj027421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 13:12:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42JCYR7015681; Mon, 2 May 2005 13:12:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42JCRqv015540 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 13:12:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17174 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 13:28:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:28:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] B&N and MC&T X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My contact at Boydell has no idea why B&N would be listing the book as unavailable, as it most definitely is available. The first shipment arrived in the US on April 21, and most of that has been sold; more are on the way. B&N typically goes through a wholesaler that should also be receiving them around now, if they haven't already. And that's all she knows, and thus all I know. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 15:41:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42JfjqO012909 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 15:41:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42JejWj001380 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 13:40:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42JecdU038703; Mon, 2 May 2005 13:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42JeZER038563 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 13:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so3371262wri for ; Mon, 02 May 2005 12:40:20 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=T+jh0v3xbMfIDvG8G0mbzEF3e/GRJsYag8IUipo8E2W9c4l7w7PO4SkuGXWgBLtrbophUoosamlrGKjc5Rvuqx1HG5tllLfOx6HLsInHJaP9k/zXoAzWJd3Q64o4sYGUPmkMBRw5KYWPn3oW1OTP5osPjCDR65zhNizHcmaxXfM= Received: by 10.54.125.3 with SMTP id x3mr728496wrc; Mon, 02 May 2005 12:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.21.32 with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:40:20 -0500 From: Onaree Berard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j42JeZER038563 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: B&N and MC&T X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can confirm that, I've recieved my copy already and I ordered directly from Boydell when it was first announced. I really enjoyed it. I wasn't sure if I would since I've never read an academic journal as opposed to something geared towards the mass market. I'm looking forward to hearing other people's views (now I know why I haven't heard anything till now). Let us know when the next is available for preorder, Robin, I'm looking forward to it. Onaree On 5/2/05, Robin Netherton wrote: > > My contact at Boydell has no idea why B&N would be listing the book as > unavailable, as it most definitely is available. The first shipment > arrived in the US on April 21, and most of that has been sold; more are on > the way. B&N typically goes through a wholesaler that should also be > receiving them around now, if they haven't already. And that's all she > knows, and thus all I know. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 16:09:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42K9pkU013118 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:09:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42K9AWj004510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 14:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42K91px061736; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:09:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j42K8sPU061603 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:08:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 6413 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2005 20:08:49 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=C1jARhnhmxWALZy4KH8NjtCebVFZ58ts+WGllSSuTX9RcA7cZjJWk3T8LDZZt5x3aN0RnuIu2bKp/KBxw/ON339QayeMak1KYz0zh9LJfYmVaBBnN/J5tlnUtrPkViL9ZO0Qc5IAUcUez01eLnVBvluLMFr6aUxxsoEDFikxzPo= ; Message-ID: <20050502200849.6411.qmail@web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 May 2005 13:08:49 PDT Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:08:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] B&N and MC&T To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Robin, but I'll just order through Boydell as I don't want to wait. I HOPE B&N isn't going the route that Amazon is... Chris G. Robin Netherton wrote: My contact at Boydell has no idea why B&N would be listing the book as unavailable, as it most definitely is available. The first shipment arrived in the US on April 21, and most of that has been sold; more are on the way. B&N typically goes through a wholesaler that should also be receiving them around now, if they haven't already. And that's all she knows, and thus all I know. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 16:32:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42KWrQN013244 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:32:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42KVnWj007146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 14:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42KViL0082013; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30112.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30112.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.220]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j42KVgW1081929 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:31:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 99512 invoked by uid 60001); 2 May 2005 20:31:37 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ikFFQwZEXO223BjK8X8S3nzCg9ibQYac8se7ZxyPXZuKcxJvnbWgc99n+8WgSvtJtRJrIwWldnHqWliMo0Ab1CDzmYJrc32rXmPfBmYPk4WVnEKeXF9o+dqPrLoKZqR1zDLv6gPpihQOFgnA5AI2F75OXoghA2duIs8oBamRmYw= ; Message-ID: <20050502203137.99510.qmail@web30112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.225.179.59] by web30112.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 May 2005 13:31:36 PDT Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 13:31:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bummer! MC&T Order To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also got burned by this email from Barnes & Noble. Very, Very Frustrating. So I've gone somewhere else to order it, but am frustrated at the time that has been wasted and the cost differential now included. *sigh* Jonnalyhn/ Angharat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 17:12:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42LCUn6013515 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 17:12:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42LBLWj012324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 15:11:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42LB9Tk015275; Mon, 2 May 2005 15:11:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42LB2Rv015185 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 15:11:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18246 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 15:26:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:26:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bummer! MC&T Order In-Reply-To: <20050502203137.99510.qmail@web30112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 2 May 2005, Angharad ver' Reynulf wrote: > So I've gone somewhere else to order it, but am frustrated at the time > that has been wasted and the cost differential now included. To those of you that were burned in this way (and boy, am I annoyed), please remember this post I made a few weeks ago: Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:33:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: MC&T journal? was: untitled post For those who haven't bought yet, today I received a batch of flyers that I may distribute to my colleagues -- and they include a discount code that brings the price down to $37.50. That's not as good as the Barnes & Noble price, last I looked. But if you want that discount, please e-mail me directly. I consider the members of this list my colleagues, and am happy to offer you the deal. However, please do *not* forward the above paragraph elsewhere, as I cannot claim that the members of several dozen costume lists are my colleagues ;-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:09:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42M9Z1D013935 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:09:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42M8gWj022211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42M8bBv064304; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:08:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (m02.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j41FAB5m058537 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 09:10:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from m02.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m02.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBHK6KUAGR4ZH2 for (sender ); Sun, 1 May 2005 08:09:38 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7shLVstp1uM0YpQElDU2e5Ku6bd29Up9RQ== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by m02.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KRW3XMJG; Sun, 01 May 2005 08:09:35 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 10:00:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] removing grease on clothes Message-ID: <20050501.100014.-299249.0.LLWatts@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,20-21,26-27,33-34 From: Leah L Watts X-ContentStamp: 12:6:2005320973 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I would have thought that removing the kind of auto-lubricating > grease mentioned by a previous Lister, - would require lots of > highly-distilled denatured alcohol, or a very-refined White Spirit > or lots of Carbon Tetrachloride; - basically because - as I see that > problem, - the only remedy is to keep-on "flushing" the grease > stain,- and blotting-up the emulsified/disolved grease must > continue until the cleansing agent is coming-away clean. > Maybe a Lister who has had experience in the "Dry Cleaning" Trade > could add some comment? I know perchloroethelene (aka "perk", and I'm not guaranteeing the spelling from memory) is used both as a dry cleaning solvent and as an industrial de-greaser. However, at least in the US, you won't be able to buy some for home use. Government regulations, you know -- breathing in too much of the fumes will make you sick, and based on one animal test that AFAIK no one else has been able to reproduce it's on the "possible carcinogen" list. Besides, it's expensive. I've never worked anywhere that used petroleum solvent or the new liquid CO2 method; if the news articles on CO2 are accurate there's no way you're doing _that_ at home due to the high pressures needed to keep it liquid. I don't know if you could get some petroleum solvent to take home or not. I never did a lot of the dry cleaning, and now that I've been transferred to one of the drop-off locations I'm not doing any. Based on memory, I don't recall the plant manager having to do much pre-spotting on grease stains. The solvent and tumbling in the drum (think oversized front-loader washer) did the work for her. I know among the chemicals on the spotting board were some that would take out any remaining grease stains. When using those, we used a steam gun connected to the boiler to flush the stain, and the board had a vacuum to suck the steam/chemicals/crud away. At home, I'd think spot-treating, flushing with water, and blotting with a towel, repeated as needed, should work. Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:23:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42MNIEi014048 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:23:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42MMXWj024238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42MMOpK075926; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:22:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42EE5QI063478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 08:14:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42EDwRh032667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 09:13:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id j42EDwtb032662; Mon, 2 May 2005 09:13:58 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2005 09:13:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <57061.165.236.184.195.1115043238.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> References: <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:13:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Melbourne Fashion Week From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on webmail.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OH! Were there any new glove fashions shown? Are there any pictures of them anywhere? I have noticed lately that they are reincorporating gloves with outragious designs in the last year. Let us know! :) Chiara > At the opening event of Melbourne International Fashion Week, the > big fashion event in Australia, a group of anti-fur protesters > staged a demonstration out the front. They were not halted by the > fact that no fur was being displayed inside, > > -C (who eats the insides and wears the outsides). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:25:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42MPFK3014059 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:25:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42MOqWj024487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42MOprT077791; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42EVLhh074905 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 08:31:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 May 2005 09:31:14 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 09:31:04 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ribs-Thanks X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for all the input about the rib removal myth. Hopefully I will be able to add some more solid information to it. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:37:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42MbXQ5014183 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42Mb2Wj025903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:37:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42MauBJ086767; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:36:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42IObsV074361 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16657 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:40:29 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 12:40:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Clothing and Textiles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 2 May 2005, lisa wrote: > Got a message from Barnes & Noble last night that they had cancelled > my order because the book was unavailable :-(. Which is really, really weird, because my contact at Boydell informed me that they arrived at the US warehouse last week. I wonder if B&N has some sort of set time period on pre-orders at which they declare something "unavailable." I will ask my contact whether they can do anything about this. I know a lot of people ordered through B&N. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:38:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42MchbH014187 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42McFWj026322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:38:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42McDgt088080; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:38:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42Ip2IL097260 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 12:51:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bdominey@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-66-56-71-212.hsd1.ga.comcast.net[66.56.71.212]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050502185057014009m2q1e>; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:50:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <20050502183258.63482.qmail@web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050502183258.63482.qmail@web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <19b676c321020e53975202736c20378d@comcast.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Barbara Dominey Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bummer! MC&T Order Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:50:56 -0400 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Received mine from Boydell & Brewer late last week. Barb (who hasn't had much to say up till now...) On May 2, 2005, at 2:32 PM, Chris wrote: > Me too. I wish I knew why??? Not enough orders to finalize a > shipment? I am so bummed, but I'll be ordering it from Boydell & > Brewer: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43831236.HTM > > RATS!!! > Chris G. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:39:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42MdUtE014193 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:39:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42MdAWj026666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42Md9Tw088957; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42Md5SP088815 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:39:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.8b.268e167c (4459) for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:38:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <8b.268e167c.2fa80602@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:38:58 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A 19th century cap To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you so much for sharing. The sewing techniques and linen tape you describe sound very, very similar to those utilized in an extant white linen apron I own that has been dated pre-1800 so it is entirely possible the cap is earlier that 1840. If you can put up some images, we would love to see. Best regards, Susannah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:43:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42Mh3S2014266 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:43:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42MgDWj027616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42MgAF9091559; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:42:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:HGLokGy/MsD1KhPMv5lGJr9bNneKTH44@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42Mg7UA091522 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j42Mg78H031646 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:42:07 -0400 Received: from dci012034013138.discovery.com ([12.34.13.138]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53051.12.34.13.138.1115073727.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <19b676c321020e53975202736c20378d@comcast.net> References: <20050502183258.63482.qmail@web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <19b676c321020e53975202736c20378d@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:42:07 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Job opportunity at the Met X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This was on a museum list - Looks like fun and maybe it fits the skills of an h-costume listmember! -Carol Once again, the Metropolitan Museum of Art has a fantastic opportunity to share with your members. Please forward this opportunity to any interested parties or post accordingly. Contact us if you have any questions or concerns. Sincerely, Employment Generalist The Metropolitan Museum of Art Human Resources PRODUCTION ASSOCIATE The Metropolitan Museum of Art, one of the world's finest museums, seeks a Merchandise Production Associate in the Textile Reproductions Department. The Production Associate is responsible for supporting the department Manager in all administrative aspects of the product development process including managing the day-to-day communication and coordination with other departments and follow-up on development progress with vendors, researching the Met collections for appropriate images for use in merchandise development, and maintaining a database of new product development. Successful candidates will have 3-5 years experience in a similar field. Strong administrative and computer skills required, including MS Excel, Word, Outlook, Photoshop. Color expertise and interest in fashion preferred. College degree required. Design training or experience and knowledge of art history preferred. Please send cover letter, resume, and salary history to employoppty@metmuseum.org as a Word attachment only with the position title in the subject line, or fax to 212-570-3882. The Metropolitan Museum of Art 1000 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10028-0198 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:48:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42Mm3gX014324 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:48:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42MlTWj028742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:47:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42MlMxh095689; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:47:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42KDTc0065466 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17643 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 14:29:21 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 14:29:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: B&N and MC&T In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 2 May 2005, Onaree Berard wrote: > I really enjoyed it. I wasn't sure if I would since I've never read an > academic journal as opposed to something geared towards the mass > market. That does my heart good! Thank you for the feedback! > Let us know when the next is available for preorder, Robin, I'm > looking forward to it. I'll keep the list posted. I can tell you the topics it will cover (I'm winding up the editing process this month): - Dress and accessories in an early Irish story (with comparisons to surviving artifacts) - Textual inscriptions in the Bayeux Tapestry - References to clothmaking in 12th-c. French romances - Paris's role in the 13th- and 14th-c. textile markets - Attitudes about apparel and impoverishment in medieval and Early Modern England - Textile cleaning techniques in Renaissance Europe (this is by Drea Leed, whom many people here know) - Zibellini (commonly known as "flea furs") - The English embroidered jacket (that one is by Danielle Nunn-Weinberg, also a listmember) Just wanted to whet your appetite ;-) --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 18:58:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j42Mvtrr014459 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:58:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j42MvMWj000186 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 16:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42MvJeZ003129; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:57:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail13.mdx.safepages.com (mail13.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j42MvHTi003008 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 16:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 0265D138A51; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:57:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (1Cust31.tnt2.ofallon.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.178.31]) by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A002F138A41; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:57:02 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01ce01c54f6a$70eb6590$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" , References: <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:15:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores & etc in WY, MT, ID X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The husband and I are planning a nice rambling trip all over Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho (and driving through NW Missouri and Nebraska to get there). We might dip into Washington briefly, but we wouldn't be going far enough west to hit the Pendleton outlets. Are there any other fabric stores in that part of the country that are worth visiting? I'm particularly in the market for wool, linen, or silk damasks and brocades, but I certainly wouldn't pass up nicely priced basics such as tropical weight worsteds or gobs of linens. (We HAD been planning to go to the northeast instead of the northwest, and I was going to spend several hours in the general vicinity of Jomar and all the other nice fabric stores around there, but oh well! Maybe next year.) Also, is there anything around there this summer that a clothing & art museums person might not want to miss? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 20:36:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j430aMTK015016 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 20:36:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j430ZKWj009560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 18:35:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j430Z3Y5059392; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:35:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j430Z05H059300 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:35:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m245.in-tch.com [216.166.191.245]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j430UQ429025 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:30:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4276C87D.3050009@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 18:40:29 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] B&N and MC&T References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I ordered my copy of MC&T through B&N, and a day before the expected shipping date (a couple of weeks ago), they notified me that their stock had run out, and it could be up to a month longer before I got mine. Which is a bummer, as I've been waiting a while now. Maybe the demand just exceeded their original expectations? --Sue, who supposes she can console herself with the Anglo-Saxon clothing book, or with _Woven into the Earth_ :o) Robin Netherton wrote: > My contact at Boydell has no idea why B&N would be listing the book as > unavailable, as it most definitely is available. The first shipment > arrived in the US on April 21, and most of that has been sold; more are on > the way. B&N typically goes through a wholesaler that should also be > receiving them around now, if they haven't already. And that's all she > knows, and thus all I know. > > --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 20:57:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j430vtpo015140 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 20:57:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j430vTWj011189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 18:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j430vLP6070663; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:57:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j430vIS6070603 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m245.in-tch.com [216.166.191.245]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j430qk403500 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:52:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4276CDBA.9030907@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 19:02:50 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores & etc in WY, MT, ID References: <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> <01ce01c54f6a$70eb6590$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <01ce01c54f6a$70eb6590$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actual fabric stores in the state of MT? Surely you jest? There are some interesting fiber places scattered in the state, but truly, the only fabric stores I've seen in this state in the last 10 years have been JoAnn's, and there are two Hancock's. And your random assortment of quilt-fabric shops. But not much at all for garment/apparel. For that, I generally go out of state or order online. We have lots of other nice touristy things in the state, though. What part of it are you cutting through? --Sue (in the middle/NW area of Montana) E House wrote: > The husband and I are planning a nice rambling trip all over Wyoming, > Montana, and Idaho (and driving through NW Missouri and Nebraska to get > there). We might dip into Washington briefly, but we wouldn't be going > far enough west to hit the Pendleton outlets. Are there any other > fabric stores in that part of the country that are worth visiting? I'm > particularly in the market for wool, linen, or silk damasks and > brocades, but I certainly wouldn't pass up nicely priced basics such as > tropical weight worsteds or gobs of linens. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 21:00:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4310Rhh015154 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:00:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j430xcWj011330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 18:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j430xamp071722; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:59:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j430wJvM071127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 18:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j432Fh2P017379 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:15:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bummer! MC&T Order Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 20:58:13 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505022058.13181.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 02 May 2005 2:23 pm, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > Bummer! I just email from Barnes & Noble: > > Despite our efforts, we were unable to fulfill some or all of the items > > in your order, as noted below. We have canceled this portion of your > order. > > We are sorry we were unable to complete your order and apologize for > any inconvenience this has caused. [snip] > > The only item I had on this order was MC&T. When I saw the email in my > inbox I had hoped it was to tell me this had shipped so this is a real > bummer. Has anyone gotten this from B&N? > No, but B&N didn't cancel my order either. It gave me the option to wait another 30 days for MC&T (until May 31, 2005). -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 21:27:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j431R4cj015320 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:27:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j431QWWj013432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 19:26:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j431QS6G085051; Mon, 2 May 2005 19:26:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41903.mail.yahoo.com (web41903.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j431QPqF084975 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 19:26:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 9443 invoked by uid 60001); 3 May 2005 01:26:20 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ZwkcTeWf6SY7T3VPIDej1zjWK2zDvzDm2maXtEcDj46oY/ijRCnvFbMhgTbItFnm8qd/75vOQkRpNVTQlufE/godwH7xWkASB+dVcWPuws8neaJKuytB7JhdnDoo1w7HgG79CAic/FkthTW/we91z0zc3Ryr2acnjFwnwWtijDc= ; Message-ID: <20050503012620.9441.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [149.99.97.201] by web41903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 May 2005 18:26:19 PDT Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:26:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200505030039.j430c5Dx060931@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 288 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was trying to order this book for a friend of mine as a birthday gift and I have not been able to place any orders with B&N for over 2 weeks now.. What is going on with them???? I go on the site and all teh books i hvae marked at teh begining of last month say they are unavailable to order????? this is really strage.. Satine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 21:32:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j431W8Aa015350 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j431VbWj014176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 19:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j431VYuE087923; Mon, 2 May 2005 19:31:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j431VWpG087888 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 19:31:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-12147); Mon, 02 May 2005 18:31:31 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Mon, 02 May 2005 18:31:27 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050502182504.00da22a0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 18:31:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores & etc in WY, MT, ID In-Reply-To: <4276CDBA.9030907@in-tch.com> References: <01ce01c54f6a$70eb6590$0400a8c0@compaqub> <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> <01ce01c54f6a$70eb6590$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, there's Reproduction Fabrics (Fabrics of time periods 1775-1970, as well as indigo-dyed prints) in Bozeman, MT. Here's some information from their web site: We are located in the beautiful Gallatin Valley surrounded by four mountain ranges. Our outlet store is in downtown Bozeman, Montana USA. Come Visit!! Just north of Yellowstone National Park, there is much to do here year-round, particularly in the outdoors: visit Yellowstone, hike out beautiful mountains, enjoy our world class fishing and big game hunting, ski at Big Sky or Bridger Bowl, and ...and, ..AND we are here! To find us at 25 N. Willson St, Suite A, we are right downtown one block off Main Street (hwy 191). Look for the landmark 7-story Baxter Hotel Building on the corner of Main & Willson. We are on Willson Street side of that block. Our hours are 9 a.m. - 5 p.m. M-F (MST) and 10-3 on Saturday (but our servers work 24 hours a day!). The telephone number is 800-380-4611. The web site is http://www.reproductionfabrics.com/ . If you go to the web site you can get a map. So there is at least one real fabric store in Montana, even if most of their business is mail order. Joan At 07:02 PM 5/2/2005 -0600, you wrote: >Actual fabric stores in the state of MT? Surely you jest? >There are some interesting fiber places scattered in the state, but truly, >the only fabric stores I've seen in this state in the last 10 years have >been JoAnn's, and there are two Hancock's. And your random assortment of >quilt-fabric shops. But not much at all for garment/apparel. For that, I >generally go out of state or order online. >We have lots of other nice touristy things in the state, though. What >part of it are you cutting through? >--Sue (in the middle/NW area of Montana) > >E House wrote: > >>The husband and I are planning a nice rambling trip all over Wyoming, >>Montana, and Idaho (and driving through NW Missouri and Nebraska to get >>there). We might dip into Washington briefly, but we wouldn't be going >>far enough west to hit the Pendleton outlets. Are there any other fabric >>stores in that part of the country that are worth visiting? I'm >>particularly in the market for wool, linen, or silk damasks and brocades, >>but I certainly wouldn't pass up nicely priced basics such as tropical >>weight worsteds or gobs of linens. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 21:58:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j431woQk015470 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:58:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j431w6Wj015936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 19:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j431w0Bk000590; Mon, 2 May 2005 19:58:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j431vwoC000543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 19:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j433FINc018022 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 23:15:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 288 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 21:57:47 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050503012620.9441.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050503012620.9441.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505022157.47850.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 02 May 2005 9:26 pm, Lady Satine wrote: > I was trying to order this book for a friend of mine as a birthday gift > and I have not been able to place any orders with B&N for over 2 weeks > now.. What is going on with them???? I go on the site and all teh books i > hvae marked at teh begining of last month say they are unavailable to > order????? this is really strage.. If you mean "Medieval Costume & Textiles, vol. 1," I have no idea what's up with B&N; I'm annoyed with them myself; I'm waiting for a copy too. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 22:49:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j432n3sS016049 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:49:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j432mJWj020276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 20:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j432mE2L024911; Mon, 2 May 2005 20:48:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j432mC5W024854 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 20:48:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE473BC8A for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:48:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 21:48:35 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] missing web site X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is it me, or has this website gone missing? I keep getting a Network Solutions "under construction" ad when I try any links to it: Elizabethan Costuming Page http://costume.dm.net/ Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 23:07:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4337kfM016111 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 23:07:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4336BWj021936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 21:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j433651U034650; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:06:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j43363NH034637 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:06:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-5035); Mon, 02 May 2005 20:05:59 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Mon, 02 May 2005 20:05:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050502200507.00da64d0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 20:05:29 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] missing web site In-Reply-To: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:48 PM 5/2/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Is it me, or has this website gone missing? I keep getting a Network >Solutions "under construction" ad when I try any links to it: > >Elizabethan Costuming Page >http://costume.dm.net/ > > >Dawn I just went to it. Seems fine. Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 23:12:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j433C284016120 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 23:12:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j433BBWj022256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 21:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j433B8hX036875; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:11:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j433B6m3036802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:11:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j434SVhB019116 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 00:28:31 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] missing web site Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 23:11:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505022311.00755.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 02 May 2005 10:48 pm, Dawn wrote: > Is it me, or has this website gone missing? I keep getting a Network > Solutions "under construction" ad when I try any links to it: > > Elizabethan Costuming Page > http://costume.dm.net/ > It came up just fine for me literally a few seconds ago. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 2 23:18:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j433I7wk016155 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 23:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j433HWWj022798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 21:17:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j433HSrZ039889; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:17:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j433HQSR039842 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:17:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from sheryl.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-110-126.kc.res.rr.com [65.30.110.126]) by ms-smtp-02.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j433HFPP025875 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:17:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050502222722.00a12670@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 22:29:52 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Elizabethan Pattern: The Working Woman's Wardrobe In-Reply-To: <002101c54dd9$686f6520$dbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <001c01c54d2a$b2335180$4a59ad8e@bc.hsia.telus.net> <001901c54d65$fc15cd10$0301010a@michaela> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey Margo, I just looked through my new July 2005 Threads magazine... Congrats on being featured! Sheryl N-D At 04:07 PM 4/30/05 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, everyone! > >I'm happy to announce the release of yet another historically accurate, >highly detailed >Elizabethan Pattern! >To see it and order, go to www.margospatterns.com > >Thanks! > >Margo Anderson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 00:29:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j434TpQC016427 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 00:29:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j434Smgh001657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 22:28:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j434SbtH074701; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j434SXhi074670 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:28:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m157.in-tch.com [216.166.191.157]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j434O6416281 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4276FF40.3060302@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 22:34:08 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric stores & etc in WY, MT, ID References: <01ce01c54f6a$70eb6590$0400a8c0@compaqub> <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> <01ce01c54f6a$70eb6590$0400a8c0@compaqub> <4.2.2.20050502182504.00da22a0@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050502182504.00da22a0@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah, you're right. I'd forgotten about them. I'm several hours from Bozeman, so it's not something I'd think of automatically, but I've got a friend who's ordered from them, and they're on my "possibly good source for repro. prints" for a quilt I want to make (recreating a summer quilt that came from my Mom's family somewhere, and which is pieced in a Dresden Plate pattern, using flour-sack prints from the 30s). Thanks for the info! --sue Joan Jurancich wrote: > Well, there's Reproduction Fabrics (Fabrics of time periods 1775-1970, > as well as indigo-dyed prints) in Bozeman, MT. Here's some information > from their web site: > At 07:02 PM 5/2/2005 -0600, you wrote: > >> Actual fabric stores in the state of MT? Surely you jest? >> There are some interesting fiber places scattered in the state, but >> truly, the only fabric stores I've seen in this state in the last 10 >> years have been JoAnn's, and there are two Hancock's. And your random >> assortment of quilt-fabric shops. But not much at all for >> garment/apparel. For that, I generally go out of state or order online. >> We have lots of other nice touristy things in the state, though. What >> part of it are you cutting through? >> --Sue (in the middle/NW area of Montana) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 00:32:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j434WTtU016443 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 00:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j434Vsgh001986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 22:31:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j434VsXT076175; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j434VqrF076113 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m157.in-tch.com [216.166.191.157]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j434RK416920 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:27:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42770002.2090402@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 22:37:22 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] missing web site References: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe it's you? Or the time during which you were checking? I just tried, using the link in your post, and it popped right up. But then, I did that roughly two hours after your post's time mark, and I'm using Netscape (sometimes the browser makes a difference). --sue Dawn wrote: > Is it me, or has this website gone missing? I keep getting a Network > Solutions "under construction" ad when I try any links to it: > > Elizabethan Costuming Page > http://costume.dm.net/ > > > Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 00:53:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j434rQUR016499 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 00:53:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j434qlgh003444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 22:52:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j434qitF084788; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:52:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav13.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j434qhHA084754 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 22:52:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 May 2005 21:52:52 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.208 by BAY106-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 03 May 2005 04:52:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.208] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] B&N and MC&T Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 00:52:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 3 May 2005 00:52:41 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 May 2005 04:52:52.0674 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6A94220:01C54F9B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j434rQUR016499 Status: RO The only thing I can think of is that B&N discovered they didn't really want to sell at the lower advertised price after all. Witht the falling dollar, Boydell has been raising prices (and not necessarily advising retailers first.) The orders to bookstores have been shipped - I got mine last week. It looks really nice although I haven't had time to sit down and read it. However, my husband stayed up late the other night reading the article on clothing mentions in Viking sagas! I'm glad Boydell was talked into a more reasonable price - their new catalog came today and all their other journals seem to be $90. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 01:01:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4351xwg016533 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 01:01:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4351Tgh004089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 May 2005 23:01:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4351Oko088729; Mon, 2 May 2005 23:01:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4351Jv8088696 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 23:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21702 for ; Mon, 2 May 2005 23:17:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 23:17:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] B&N and MC&T In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 3 May 2005, JAMES OGILVIE wrote: > The only thing I can think of is that B&N discovered they didn't > really want to sell at the lower advertised price after all. That was my thought too. It was an *awfully* good price. I think it may have been set during the brief period when Boydell had the journal up for $40 (it was soon changed to $50). > Witht the falling dollar, Boydell has been raising prices (and not > necessarily advising retailers first.) The orders to bookstores have > been shipped - I got mine last week. It looks really nice although I > haven't had time to sit down and read it. However, my husband stayed > up late the other night reading the article on clothing mentions in > Viking sagas! Or, more precisely, "What to wear to a slaying." (Answer: Something blue.) > I'm glad Boydell was talked into a more reasonable price - their new > catalog came today and all their other journals seem to be $90. We worked very hard at that. I know $50 seems like a lot, but compared to what Boydell was originally planning, it's a huge difference. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 04:19:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j438JjjH021704 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 04:19:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j438J7gh015525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 May 2005 02:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j438Is1h070043; Tue, 3 May 2005 02:18:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j438Iq56070020 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 02:18:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.237.125] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DSscF-0007IP-MJ for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 03 May 2005 04:18:51 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type; b=alvi9Duwlg+PgfS2wD1/n8YUOdkQI+l9mDtcvb9rmWnG9UCqVOy1U54RScuFUMp6; Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <42770002.2090402@in-tch.com> References: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> <42770002.2090402@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 01:10:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] missing web site Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47874241ab66785ff6df575cdfb8d05196f2453f74b47e2552a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.237.125 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Is it me, or has this website gone missing? I keep getting a >>Network Solutions "under construction" ad when I try any links to >>it: >> >>Elizabethan Costuming Page >>http://costume.dm.net/ If your browser caches copies of pages, you may have only hit an "under construction" version of the page once, but your browser keeps feeding you that copy from cache, rather than downloading a new copy. Even hitting the "refresh" button won't necessarily get around this. See if you can find a command in your browser to clear your cache folder (or delete the contents of your cache, or various other ways of phrasing it). Then try the page again. No guarantees that this will work in your particular case, but it's worked for me when I've had similar problems. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 09:28:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j43DRxiR021001 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 09:27:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j43DQngh017693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 May 2005 07:26:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43DQald007983; Tue, 3 May 2005 07:26:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j43DQYXk007929 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 07:26:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 90732 invoked by uid 60001); 3 May 2005 13:26:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=FvqsU5K96yHvdj6rCEIu9j5XUxM3SPVhPBLn0Mqg24fVic7f/haLRD0doT8PebFzXLZL7aQUTZkUX8HABGxvNTyO0JEHQAtBqcGs5kbd/mIxiCu4o5YcrTFcOohYTQek4oXMr3OMsVmhbRmW2x6o0kaPyFLyRp9bQS4qm/Tx/rc= ; Message-ID: <20050503132625.90730.qmail@web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31013.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 May 2005 06:26:25 PDT Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 06:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] missing web site To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Heather, I'm at work (much better connection than my old dial-up at home) and the page opened right up for me. Chris G. Heather Rose Jones wrote: >>Is it me, or has this website gone missing? I keep getting a >>Network Solutions "under construction" ad when I try any links to >>it: >> >>Elizabethan Costuming Page >>http://costume.dm.net/ If your browser caches copies of pages, you may have only hit an "under construction" version of the page once, but your browser keeps feeding you that copy from cache, rather than downloading a new copy. Even hitting the "refresh" button won't necessarily get around this. See if you can find a command in your browser to clear your cache folder (or delete the contents of your cache, or various other ways of phrasing it). Then try the page again. No guarantees that this will work in your particular case, but it's worked for me when I've had similar problems. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 09:42:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j43DgrJS021084 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 09:42:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j43Dfjgh018795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 May 2005 07:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43DfglJ015996; Tue, 3 May 2005 07:41:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43DfbWS015909 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 07:41:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 03 May 2005 08:41:29 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:41:19 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Called B&N X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Finally found a phone number on the website for customer service. Per the poor guy who was lucky enough to get my call; when they have to delay shipping for a second time on an item, they cancel the order. Period. I pointed out to him that we were given the option to continue or cancel when there was the first delay and doing this the second time, when the book was so close to arriving, and is still listed on their website (altho without a price) looks like they are trying to now renig on the discount the offered for advance orders. I was polite, but he knew I was not happy :). I suggested he might want to let their customer service know that they had several unhappy customers over this and this policy should be reviewed. Some books are worth waiting for :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 11:27:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j43FRt9a021729 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 11:27:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j43FQqgh029573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 May 2005 09:26:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43FQird092486; Tue, 3 May 2005 09:26:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43FQciu092277 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 09:26:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A412C3BC8B for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 10:26:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42779846.7020400@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 10:27:02 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] missing web site References: <4276E683.5050502@reddawn.net> <42770002.2090402@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <42770002.2090402@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > Maybe it's you? Or the time during which you were checking? I just > tried, using the link in your post, and it popped right up. But then, I > did that roughly two hours after your post's time mark, and I'm using > Netscape (sometimes the browser makes a difference). > --sue Thanks everyone who checked. I've been seeing that particular error page a lot lately, from various sites *I KNOW* are there , and it's not until I ask someone else on a different connection to check it too that I'm able to finally view it. We just changed DNS providers and I think something with our service is hinky. Now if I could get my husband to believe me... Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 3 12:17:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j43GHPgN022061 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 12:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j43GFwgh005385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 3 May 2005 10:15:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43GFlp5040163; Tue, 3 May 2005 10:15:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43GFgU4040059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 10:15:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-62.sonic.net [209.148.114.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j43GFemo030832 for ; Tue, 3 May 2005 09:15:41 -0700 Message-ID: <4277A3AC.6090101@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 09:15:40 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Called B&N References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In our experience as a publisher, Barnes and Noble listings have little to do with book availability. They've listed books as available a month before we got them from the printer, they've waited over a month to list them after we have informed them the book is available. It's just the way they work. Fran Lavolta Presss Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Catherine Kinsey wrote: >Finally found a phone number on the website for customer service. Per >the poor guy who was lucky enough to get my call; when they have to >delay shipping for a second time on an item, they cancel the order. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 08:04:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44C4K6l029968 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 08:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44C3bgh007638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 06:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44C3NkQ060265; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:03:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com (mailout01.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44C3LEj060230 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:03:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dgandh@t-online.de) Received: from fwd23.aul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1DTIb2-0004sZ-03; Wed, 04 May 2005 14:03:20 +0200 Received: from gandolf (bRPTBZZBgeEvjxojOsR3lTpk3uINcISOs2JTH509yoQA+3eWDiGJUI@[84.170.198.86]) by fwd23.sul.t-online.de with esmtp id 1DTIa7-2Bn8Oe0; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:02:23 +0200 From: "dgandh" To: Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:02:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcVQoR+CEZ1K7uolRpyoC4HFJgOdMA== Message-ID: <1DTIa7-2Bn8Oe0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> X-ID: bRPTBZZBgeEvjxojOsR3lTpk3uINcISOs2JTH509yoQA+3eWDiGJUI X-TOI-MSGID: 1567d670-7df7-4f4f-9370-31bef34584aa X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am making a sailors short jacket circa 1706. it's a linen lined heavy wool jacket. I have cut out and sewn together the body and the sleeves so I basically have "two" jackets, a linen one and a wool one that I need to sew together. What should I do first? Linen to wool sleeve then attach to body then sew the body linen lining into the wool jacket Or Sew linen lining sleves to linen body, sew wool sleeves to wool body, then linen jacket into wool jacket? Or something else? Thanks in advance Greg www.gentlemenoffortune.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 08:33:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44CXAQm030168 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 08:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44CWagh009354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 06:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44CWXhG081172; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j44CWNhY081017 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2005 12:32:17 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050504132908.014d5310@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 13:30:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together In-Reply-To: <1DTIa7-2Bn8Oe0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:02 04/05/2005 +0200, you wrote: >I am making a sailors short jacket circa 1706. it's a linen lined heavy >wool jacket. I have cut out and sewn together the body and the sleeves so I >basically have "two" jackets, a linen one and a wool one that I need to sew >together. > > > >What should I do first? > >Linen to wool sleeve then attach to body then sew the body linen lining into >the wool jacket That is the way I make jackets and coats - I don't know if it is the right way. Look at your ribbed silk coat that I made you - you will see the armholes are hand sewn. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 08:42:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44CgITl030259 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 08:42:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44Cfdgh010148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 06:41:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44CfavF087776; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:41:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44CfXSv087666 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:41:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (220-253-120-54.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.120.54]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 18C85110E5C for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 22:41:27 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001801c550a6$8cf53300$3678fddc@chris> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000c01c54f14$d5a30ca0$df78fddc@chris> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Melbourne Fashion Week gloves Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:41:09 +1000 Organization: Australian Costume Supply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nope, no gloves visible unless they are in the raggy handbags...still, most of this has been daywear so far so they are not doing the glove thing in female business stories...Only a few after dark pieces so far, I'll mumble something if they come out during the evening wear. Hey, why can't blokes have gloves, too? For that matter, why do we all have to be unshaven to make it in the fashion stakes? -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 08:48:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44CmhtX030310 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 08:48:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44Clmgh010559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 06:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44CljFx092251; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44ClgEJ092211 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 06:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from chris (220-253-120-54.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.120.54]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 51E3771408 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 22:47:41 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <002001c550a7$6c0a44e0$3678fddc@chris> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050504132908.014d5310@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:47:24 +1000 Organization: Australian Costume Supply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hard to say without seeing the thing but you might wanna try leaving the centre back lining (if there is a seam there) open so you can drag bits through for inside finishing. Stitch the inside-back seam last, -C. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 09:32:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44DWE4Z030672 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 09:32:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44DVZgh013656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 07:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44DVS82026277; Wed, 4 May 2005 07:31:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.fuse.net (mail-out1.fuse.net [216.68.8.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44DVQ8N026178 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 07:31:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx6.fuse.net ([66.42.215.13]) by smtp1.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with ESMTP id <20050504132739.UKVN6299.smtp1.fuse.net@gx6.fuse.net> for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 09:27:39 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([66.42.215.13]) by gx6.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.02.00.02 201-2136-104-102-20041210) with ESMTP id <20050504132536.EVFO21147.gx6.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 09:25:36 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050504091429.00ae4c80@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 09:20:05 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: "J.E. Marshall" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Louis of Hungary In-Reply-To: <005701c54d22$14b9b9b0$0301010a@michaela> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20050429021307.00ae7320@pop.fuse.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-17F7201E X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Michaela, I only have Photoshop, but if you send me the pictures, I can see what I can do to them. Sorry that I did not reply sooner, shortly after I posted the original message, I got slapped with a monster cold. Jennifer At 01:15 PM 4/30/05 +1200, you wrote: >I have some that were sent to me by the lady who gave me these: >http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/mary/index.htm >I can send you the full sized images if you have a program to clean them up >a bit, or if you don't mind waiting a few days I can tryto clean them up and >put them on my website. > >michaela de bruce >http://glittersweet.com > what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? Anon. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.3 - Release Date: 5/3/05 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 11:42:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44FgZ0e031595 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 11:42:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44FfOgh028926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 09:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44Feuon044318; Wed, 4 May 2005 09:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j44FelOo044141 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 09:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 30199 invoked from network); 4 May 2005 16:00:08 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 May 2005 09:00:08 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 4 May 2005 08:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1046.24.4.69.40.1115221246.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1DTIa7-2Bn8Oe0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> References: <1DTIa7-2Bn8Oe0@fwd23.sul.t-online.de> Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 08:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am making a sailors short jacket circa 1706. it's a linen lined heavy > wool jacket. I have cut out and sewn together the body and the sleeves so > I > basically have "two" jackets, a linen one and a wool one that I need to > sew > together. > > > > What should I do first? > > Linen to wool sleeve then attach to body then sew the body linen lining > into > the wool jacket > > Or > > Sew linen lining sleves to linen body, sew wool sleeves to wool body, then > linen jacket into wool jacket? > > > > Or something else? If you want to sew it by hand, attach sleeves to jacket and then nestle inner jacket into outer jacket (wrong sides together) then turn edges and hand sew. If you want to sew by machine, then you can put jacket to jacket (right sides together) and sew around entire perimeter. Then use the arm hole to turn them inside out. Then attach finished sleeves. I don't know the historical way to do it, but these are two modern options. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 14:57:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44IvGKP000815 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44IuNgh025656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 12:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44Iu7EK034738; Wed, 4 May 2005 12:56:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44Iu2oW034573 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 12:56:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.113 ([204.127.197.113]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005050418555601500t3hcte>; Wed, 4 May 2005 18:55:56 +0000 Received: from [128.95.163.25] by 204.127.197.113; Wed, 04 May 2005 18:55:55 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 18:55:55 +0000 Message-Id: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hhhm. It depends on how much work you'll want to put into it. Years ago I took apart a couture men's jacket and found lots of interal stuff that just were too cool Sew the wool jacket body together with out the collar and sleeves; same for lining. The internal sutff was a bit of thin wool cotton around the head and back shoulders of the armholes, and in the top/back head of the sleeve (wool sleeve) to get a good lay on the armhole head. Hand stitched twill tape along any diagonal 'fold/roll' lines, meaning if there's a lapel type feature on the jacket, you could reinforce the roll line. If not, you can just hand stitch the twill tape to just the fold/roll line of the 'collar'. There was twill tape around the jacket armhole, at the stress point of button holes the fold/roll line of the hems of both the jacket and sleeves. The collar wool and lining was sewn together and then inset onto the neck of the wool jacket, then the lining whould be sewn over all the thicknesses of collar and wool jacket down the fronts. To be sure you have a better time of turning the coat (not distort the lining armhole), you might want to leave part of the jacket hem unsewn (if you plan on sewing the lining and the wool together at the hem), so you can pull it right side out that way, and not through the armhole. Sew the sleeve wool and lining together and inset into armhole (this is the time where you'd insert the thin layer of wool cotton, for fillng out the sleeve. Don't put too much!). Handsew lining down. If you are hem finishing the jacket wool and lining, be sure to sew anchoring loops at the hem. Anyhow, I hope this helps. and hopefully i have not mixed things up, as I'm due to work in 5 minutes! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I am making a sailors short jacket circa 1706. it's a linen lined heavy > wool jacket. I have cut out and sewn together the body and the sleeves so I > basically have "two" jackets, a linen one and a wool one that I need to sew > together. > > > > What should I do first? > > Linen to wool sleeve then attach to body then sew the body linen lining into > the wool jacket > > Or > > Sew linen lining sleves to linen body, sew wool sleeves to wool body, then > linen jacket into wool jacket? > > > > Or something else? > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > Greg > > > > www.gentlemenoffortune.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 16:22:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44KMav4001482 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 16:22:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44KL1gh005078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 14:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44KKmOT011183; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:20:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52805.mail.yahoo.com (web52805.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.169]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j44KKi4r011031 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:20:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 5392 invoked by uid 60001); 4 May 2005 20:20:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kNUgI3uyZLdzXWd3qijLwC8/6VVYWb8zHONiGc6QcYYSoZbGP33k6hvbKi/Wb+LvkGoy0THJwCiN1qRk1nkvrI23uHgBEOsKHuLWNHD9zDRMLyMB0AI0jobBuqm/wLl69cJIgcl8Q7NwQ0HQgpQQLUq6TAoSsgqidUxvqKx8itM= ; Message-ID: <20050504202038.5388.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 May 2005 13:20:37 PDT Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:20:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all -- I hoping one of you can help me with a term I ran across in a 1951 novel (Margery Sharp’s “Lisa Lillywhite”), which is a reference to a man’s being dressed in a “boiled.” I know what boiled wool is, and wondered if this were just a shortened version of a suit made of boiled wool, perhaps? But that doesn’t entirely make sense to me in context. Here are the two relevant quotes: “…We offer a little collation on Sunday, at nine o’clock. I know it is not customary in England to honour the Sabbath with a ‘boiled’; I leave the point to your discretion…” Our hero (such as he is!) is put off by the sender, but: “Even so Martin did not put on his boiled; he compromised with a dark suit and a white shirt.” Thanks in advance to any of you who can enlighten me! KP --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 16:43:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44KhtsP001626 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 16:43:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44Keogh007108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 14:40:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44KcW1L025705; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:39:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j44KaELt024091 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:36:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2005 20:36:08 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050504212848.014d56d0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:34:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term In-Reply-To: <20050504202038.5388.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j44KaELt024091 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:20 04/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, all -- > >I hoping one of you can help me with a term I ran across in a 1951 novel >(Margery Sharp’s “Lisa Lillywhite”), which is a reference to a man’s being >dressed in a “boiled.” I know what boiled wool is, and wondered if this >were just a shortened version of a suit made of boiled wool, perhaps? But >that doesn’t entirely make sense to me in context. Here are the two >relevant quotes: > >“…We offer a little collation on Sunday, at nine o’clock. I know it is not >customary in England to honour the Sabbath with a ‘boiled’; I leave the >point to your discretion…” > >Our hero (such as he is!) is put off by the sender, but: > >“Even so Martin did not put on his boiled; he compromised with a dark suit >and a white shirt.” > >Thanks in advance to any of you who can enlighten me! This is a short form of "boiled shirt". This is a formal shirt, with a stiffened, highly starched and polished "dickie", usually worn with an old-fashioned dinner jacket, waistcoat and trousers. I don't know if a tuxedo was worn like that. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 4 16:47:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j44KlNKW001664 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 16:47:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j44Kkxgh008282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 May 2005 14:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44KkpUo033040; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:46:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j44KkkUX032951 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:46:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-7890); Wed, 04 May 2005 13:46:46 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 04 May 2005 13:46:46 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050504134312.00d9fcf0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 13:46:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term In-Reply-To: <20050504202038.5388.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j44KkkUX032951 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like a boiled white shirt front, usually starched, worn with fairly formal clothing; that's why he could "compromise" with a dark suit and white shirt. I remember the "boiled shirt" from the Lord Peter Wimsey series. Joan At 01:20 PM 5/4/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, all -- > >I hoping one of you can help me with a term I ran across in a 1951 novel >(Margery Sharp’s “Lisa Lillywhite”), which is a reference to a man’s being >dressed in a “boiled.” I know what boiled wool is, and wondered if this >were just a shortened version of a suit made of boiled wool, perhaps? But >that doesn’t entirely make sense to me in context. Here are the two >relevant quotes: > >“…We offer a little collation on Sunday, at nine o’clock. I know it is not >customary in England to honour the Sabbath with a ‘boiled’; I leave the >point to your discretion…” > >Our hero (such as he is!) is put off by the sender, but: > >“Even so Martin did not put on his boiled; he compromised with a dark suit >and a white shirt.” > >Thanks in advance to any of you who can enlighten me! > >KP _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 01:39:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j465d0Bw017926 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 01:39:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j465c7gh017927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 5 May 2005 23:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j465bpVo055673; Thu, 5 May 2005 23:37:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-03.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j465blWd055632 for ; Thu, 5 May 2005 23:37:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 12859 invoked from network); 6 May 2005 05:37:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.6.168) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 6 May 2005 05:37:41 -0000 Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 15:44:13 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j465blWd055632 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] couture cloaks? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This wonderful answer brings to mind a question - is there such a thing as a "couture" cloak? If there was/is - how would it be put together? Cheers, Aylwen On Thursday, May 5, 2005, at 04:55 AM, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: > Hhhm. It depends on how much work you'll want to put into it. Years > ago I took apart a couture men's jacket and found lots of interal > stuff that just were too cool > > Sew the wool jacket body together with out the collar and sleeves; > same for lining. The internal sutff was a bit of thin wool cotton > around the head and back shoulders of the armholes, and in the > top/back head of the sleeve (wool sleeve) to get a good lay on the > armhole head. Hand stitched twill tape along any diagonal 'fold/roll' > lines, meaning if there's a lapel type feature on the jacket, you > could reinforce the roll line. If not, you can just hand stitch the > twill tape to just the fold/roll line of the 'collar'. There was > twill tape around the jacket armhole, at the stress point of button > holes the fold/roll line of the hems of both the jacket and sleeves. > > The collar wool and lining was sewn together and then inset onto the > neck of the wool jacket, then the lining whould be sewn over all the > thicknesses of collar and wool jacket down the fronts. To be sure you > have a better time of turning the coat (not distort the lining > armhole), you might want to leave part of the jacket hem unsewn (if > you plan on sewing the lining and the wool together at the hem), so > you can pull it right side out that way, and not through the armhole. > > Sew the sleeve wool and lining together and inset into armhole (this > is the time where you'd insert the thin layer of wool cotton, for > fillng out the sleeve. Don't put too much!). Handsew lining down. > If you are hem finishing the jacket wool and lining, be sure to sew > anchoring loops at the hem. > > Anyhow, I hope this helps. and hopefully i have not mixed things up, > as I'm due to work in 5 minutes! > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> I am making a sailors short jacket circa 1706. it's a linen lined >> heavy >> wool jacket. I have cut out and sewn together the body and the >> sleeves so I >> basically have "two" jackets, a linen one and a wool one that I need >> to sew >> together. >> >> >> >> What should I do first? >> >> Linen to wool sleeve then attach to body then sew the body linen >> lining into >> the wool jacket >> >> Or >> >> Sew linen lining sleves to linen body, sew wool sleeves to wool body, >> then >> linen jacket into wool jacket? >> >> >> >> Or something else? >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> www.gentlemenoffortune.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 02:31:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j466VC33027580 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 02:31:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j466UWgh027331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 00:30:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j466UUuW092107; Fri, 6 May 2005 00:30:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail18.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.75]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j466URJv092076 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 00:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=LDr3yj=TN=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200505060630.j466URJv092076@net.indra.com> Received: from scan07.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.237] helo=scan07.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail18.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DTwLz-0004lY-HY for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 02:30:27 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] ident=exim) by scan07.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DTwLz-0000t9-FZ for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 02:30:27 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] helo=authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan07.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DTwLz-0000t6-8G for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 02:30:27 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DTwLy-0002SP-JE for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 02:30:27 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] couture cloaks? Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 23:30:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcVR/mDyNcaCrzkERsasemrxxGalmwABiOqA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- This wonderful answer brings to mind a question - is there such a thing as a "couture" cloak? If there was/is - how would it be put together? Cheers, Aylwen It's possible. It would be mostly hand sewn, with careful attention to pressing of the seams. Stylish, and made from a high quality fabric. Hem would be hand sewn with a stabilizer such as twill tape or horse hair braid. Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 09:47:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46DlVW9021699 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 09:47:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Dkdgh012409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 07:46:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46DkUOb087649; Fri, 6 May 2005 07:46:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46DkRaj087530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 07:46:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46DkLrn007459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id j46DkLLE007456; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:21 -0500 (CDT) From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on webmail.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is pretty badly chewed up. I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing for the same amount. Opinions? Testimonies? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 10:30:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46EUq88022128 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46EUBgh016665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 08:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EUAnN024200; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:30:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EU8ID024109 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:30:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc16.attbi.com[204.127.197.126]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <200505061430020130053f7le>; Fri, 6 May 2005 14:30:03 +0000 Received: from [67.168.12.165] by 204.127.197.111; Fri, 06 May 2005 14:30:02 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 14:30:02 +0000 Message-Id: <050620051430.16607.427B7F69000E6187000040DF22058864420809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My experiences with sewing machine maintenance and repair puts your cost as very reasonable. The last place I went to charged me about $90 just for a tune up and cleaning. They found a problem with my cord for the pedal and replaced without charging me more. The thing is, when I was getting quotes they ranged from the $90.00 to $150. I was very lucky the lowest priced quote was for the sewing machine place that had the most recommendations. Anyhow, that's what my experiences were... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > > I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The > tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is > pretty badly chewed up. > > I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around > since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning > and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon > foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). > > I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these > years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for > this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it > were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I > would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing > for the same amount. > > Opinions? Testimonies? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 10:34:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46EYS9a022174 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:34:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46EXYgh017026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 08:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EXXth027092; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:33:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EXVbo026969 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:33:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EF13BC99 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 09:33:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <427B8044.9050301@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:33:40 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: > He quoted, for the repair and the tuning > and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon > foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). > > I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these > years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for > this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? That sounds reasonable to me, especially as it includes replacing parts. I've seen tune-ups alone for that price. For a dependable machine of good quality I would be willing to pay more. You get years of additional use for a fraction of the price of a new, cheapie machine. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 10:36:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46EaSGW022197 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:36:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46EZqgh017239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 08:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EZplT029056; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EZlmK028931 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:35:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.8]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 6 May 2005 09:35:05 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 09:35:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcVSQvt1OxsTAO4gR2eY/xVpu2E0kQABckhQ Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 May 2005 14:35:05.0351 (UTC) FILETIME=[CB660170:01C55248] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Last time I took my machine in for a clean and adjust it was 50 bucks- I would think you are getting a deal! Pyro -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 8:46 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is pretty badly chewed up. I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing for the same amount. Opinions? Testimonies? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 10:47:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46ElSBg022252 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:47:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Ekwgh018292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46Ekvlp038769; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts22.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EktsL038733 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([64.231.206.201]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050506144654.CWQW21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:46:54 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20050506104511.00b69478@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 10:48:39 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sewing Machine repairs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would say your repair man gave you a fair and reasonable price. I think those older all metal machines are well worth keeping in working order. I'm currently a fashion student and put my machines through a heavy work load. The new ones are great, but the older machines are special. My local repair guy (of course depending on the repair) charges about $100.00 when I go in for regular (yearly maintenance and repairs. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 10:47:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46Ele6D022255 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Ekngh018280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46Ekh7k038522; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j46EkeLA038470 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:46:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-1579); Fri, 06 May 2005 07:45:18 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 06 May 2005 07:45:18 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050506074441.00da9800@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 07:46:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question In-Reply-To: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would compare the cost of repair to the cost of getting a comparable replacement machine. Given the fact that it is hard to find a newer machine with all steel parts, I'd get this one repaired. Think of it as getting a nearly new machine for under $100. Sounds better that way. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA At 08:46 AM 5/6/2005 -0500, you wrote: >How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > >I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The >tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is >pretty badly chewed up. > >I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around >since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning >and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon >foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). > >I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these >years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for >this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it >were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I >would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing >for the same amount. > >Opinions? Testimonies? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 10:58:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46EwQk3022323 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Evkgh019528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 08:57:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EvirD048492; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:57:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50209.mail.yahoo.com (web50209.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j46EvgNB048368 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:57:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jmhr3@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52163 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2005 14:57:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=mkDDV85LRDFGY6EDD0cNVCHnCYzfHOH+92x9tTEg4dd6ws7B6YhXNRXKfeaa83W3TLXsRWbbrPPLefUtredUWhp7k+dNhzhsxs96iFWCOa/b7BDGJ69L1Nra1m1EChq3vJkPGUEh0EcTHK1UH78HxGcloDy45Oe9/siDgRy2w84= ; Message-ID: <20050506145735.52161.qmail@web50209.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.40.24.158] by web50209.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 May 2005 07:57:35 PDT Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 07:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "jmhr3@yahoo.com" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costume dvds for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm clearing out some dvds and have a group of five for sale, $25 for all, plus shipping of your choice. They were all bought new in the past year, viewed once. Master and Commander, WS Return of Martin Guerre Restoration, WS The Importance of Being Earnest (Rupert Everett, Colin Firth), WS The Advocate, WS If you want to buy or have questions, please email me off list at jmr779@alltel.net. Melissa Roberts __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 10:59:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46ExVmf022338 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:59:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Ewxgh019689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 08:58:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46Eww2t049680; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:58:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46EwtMZ049647 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:58:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-86-26.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.86.26]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46EwCXx023606 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:58:12 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050506075810.027212d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 07:59:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question In-Reply-To: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around >since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning >and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon >foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). You couldn't replace a machine that good for $75, so I'd also say go for it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 11:49:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46Fnxqo022722 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:49:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Fmogh025476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 09:48:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46FmhqL096078; Fri, 6 May 2005 09:48:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46FmdRO095927 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 09:48:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so957205wra for ; Fri, 06 May 2005 08:48:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=NFtpEaST5waB/LLGdH6aS9fPHw/Mr0obvcWLOThZKE4YJYqNsQugNv96yTNjynp62f7AgtdmOIgxBgPEP2eCMsxFO0Gs03PmbROGkZyvgwuN4BRfQgBjnq+/laG6nKGmYfCDkayEMGj61Idm8kv8nSJWfKJzdFN6a7LE4JkZIv4= Received: by 10.54.32.13 with SMTP id f13mr928317wrf; Fri, 06 May 2005 08:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.33 with HTTP; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05050608486d9880f7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 08:48:33 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question In-Reply-To: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j46FmdRO095927 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, where do you live? What town has this great repair shop? it seems to me that, if you recommend him after the repairs, he'll have a whole bunch of new customers between the recommendations you heard and his prices. I paid $75 for a general cleaning and preventive maintenance the last time I took my (same as you) 25 year old Kenmore into the shop, and they found nothing wrong with it except dust. LynnD On 5/6/05, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: > How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > > I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The > tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is > pretty badly chewed up. > > I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around > since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning > and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon > foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). > > I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these > years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for > this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it > were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I > would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing > for the same amount. > > Opinions? Testimonies? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 12:51:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46GpkBZ023340 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 12:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Gk5gh003288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 10:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46GiGkq053570; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:44:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.254]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46GiBQg053462 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:44:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DU5vv-0007dp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:11 -0700 Message-ID: <427B9EDC.5080809@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:44:12 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] couture cloaks? References: <200505060630.j466URJv092076@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200505060630.j466URJv092076@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think some of these tailoring techiques could easily be appliied to a cloak with collar (and/or) hood. Check out Folkwear's Kinsale cloak. Having made one of these myself, the collar and openings (believe it or not) need special attention. The collar to roll correctly and the opening to hang properly! Sg Becky @ SewingCity.com wrote: >-----Original Message----- >This wonderful answer brings to mind a question - is there such a thing >as a "couture" cloak? If there was/is - how would it be put together? >Cheers, Aylwen > > >It's possible. It would be mostly hand sewn, with careful attention to >pressing of the seams. Stylish, and made from a high quality fabric. Hem >would be hand sewn with a stabilizer such as twill tape or horse hair braid. > >Becky >http://www.sewingcity.com > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 12:53:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46Gr7Ce023348 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 12:53:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46GlZgh003507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 10:47:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46Gk2c2055167; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:46:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46Gjvxd055091 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:45:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DU5xc-0001g9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 06 May 2005 09:45:56 -0700 Message-ID: <427B9F45.4080606@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:45:57 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Its a smokin' deal if you ask me! Sounds like you did the right thing! Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: >How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > >I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The >tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is >pretty badly chewed up. > >I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around >since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning >and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon >foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). > >I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these >years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for >this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it >were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I >would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing >for the same amount. > >Opinions? Testimonies? >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 13:09:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46H9jtu023455 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:09:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46H93gh005868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 11:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46H8xN5077143; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:08:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46H8tse077020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46H8oJN093082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 12:08:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: (from www@localhost) by webmail.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id j46H8oW4093081; Fri, 6 May 2005 12:08:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Fri, 6 May 2005 12:08:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <20242.165.236.184.195.1115399330.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <8296995c05050608486d9880f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> <8296995c05050608486d9880f7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:08:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on webmail.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hehe .... It is in McKinney Texas. It was recommended to me by a newcomer to our group, she is an awsome resource for the hole in the wall places all over the DFW area. Going to try to convince her to start a website with me for them, kinda like the Daily Candy. I know where Neiman Marcus sends their 'extra' stuff from the sample sales after the employees pick over them. That kinda stuff..) Willett's Sew and Vac http://www.willetts-pfaff.com/ He is the local vacuum repair man too. :) On Fri, May 6, 2005 10:48 am, Lynn Downward said: > So, where do you live? What town has this great repair shop? it > seems > to me that, if you recommend him after the repairs, he'll have a > whole > bunch of new customers between the recommendations you heard and his > prices. I paid $75 for a general cleaning and preventive maintenance > the last time I took my (same as you) 25 year old Kenmore into the > shop, and they found nothing wrong with it except dust. > > LynnD > > On 5/6/05, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: >> How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good >> machine? >> >> I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The >> tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is >> pretty badly chewed up. >> >> I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around >> since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the >> tuning >> and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon >> foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). >> >> I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these >> years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost >> for >> this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if >> it >> were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if >> I >> would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same >> thing >> for the same amount. >> >> Opinions? Testimonies? >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 13:15:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46HFlCn023500 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:15:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46HF8gh006929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 11:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46HF7UC083238; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:15:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50809.mail.yahoo.com (web50809.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j46HF5eI083110 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:15:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from albrakat7@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 10917 invoked by uid 60001); 6 May 2005 17:14:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2hRSEytdtqilGQkTrJN6FaGfDZioHmKoB3h8NIu5fhWWXJ0nBmmjF/4wtamUmuABu4lSOTTkMFtYH8wj8+kqzLVqjiqD7nRQt+iEfDMKQTNGAI5bH0v4Uy5NZNuQZYTMfaAStYRoadoT6di2aRE7JTDv2lZQvfsI3yygsutubKI= ; Message-ID: <20050506171459.10915.qmail@web50809.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.231.69.193] by web50809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 May 2005 10:14:59 PDT Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:14:59 -0700 (PDT) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around >since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning >and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon >foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). You couldn't replace a machine that good for $75, so I'd also say go for it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 6 13:48:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j46HmKWN023672 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 13:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j46Hlbgh010761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 11:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46HlYCl014150; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46HlVMu014025 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so1028564wra for ; Fri, 06 May 2005 10:47:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=EKZaEUgUitroyWL3dUkOhUak/GwUMvuoaYzb4M6ZpCuzXNEo7n/9wvTwniheU7go+i+PM2O3Ta8N7UHGFVwcOwVQxVVivr4UMaPwhXn5PtOnvMaNCElfQHAK8lk7oSF0+AwEsJyvlX5rqqyRkON2KnXqntPWmEQAEFdc4KH6FSs= Received: by 10.54.32.36 with SMTP id f36mr984376wrf; Fri, 06 May 2005 10:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.33 with HTTP; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0505061047273b95f1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:47:26 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question In-Reply-To: <20242.165.236.184.195.1115399330.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> <8296995c05050608486d9880f7@mail.gmail.com> <20242.165.236.184.195.1115399330.squirrel@165.236.184.195> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j46HlVMu014025 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, well. It would take $75 to send my heavy sewing machine from San Francisco Bay Area to Texas. I guess I'll stick to the guy nearby. But those of you in the DFW area, you've been handed a jewel. LynnD On 5/6/05, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: > Hehe .... It is in McKinney Texas. It was recommended to me by a > newcomer to our group, she is an awsome resource for the hole in the > wall places all over the DFW area. Going to try to convince her to > start a website with me for them, kinda like the Daily Candy. I know > where Neiman Marcus sends their 'extra' stuff from the sample sales > after the employees pick over them. That kinda stuff..) > > Willett's Sew and Vac > http://www.willetts-pfaff.com/ > > He is the local vacuum repair man too. :) > > On Fri, May 6, 2005 10:48 am, Lynn Downward said: > > So, where do you live? What town has this great repair shop? it > > seems > > to me that, if you recommend him after the repairs, he'll have a > > whole > > bunch of new customers between the recommendations you heard and his > > prices. I paid $75 for a general cleaning and preventive maintenance > > the last time I took my (same as you) 25 year old Kenmore into the > > shop, and they found nothing wrong with it except dust. > > > > LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 00:39:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j474dcA2031437 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 00:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j474Yrgh021145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 May 2005 22:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j474YfrR026424; Fri, 6 May 2005 22:34:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j474YUYS026106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 22:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j475q96i016760 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 01:52:13 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 00:34:18 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505070034.18249.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j474YUYS026106 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Table of Contents of NESAT 8 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Eva I. Andersson, who is a member of another costume history list to which I subscribe, posted the following list of articles from NESAT 8, which is also supposedly coming out this year. Thank you, Eva! It's called "Priceless invention of humanity - Textiles" and it is published in the series Acta Archaeologica Lodziensia NR 50/1, in Lodz, Poland and its ISSN is 0065-0956. Carol A. Christiansen, A Reanalysis of Fleece Evolution Studies Fabienne MĂŠdard, Cristophe MoulhĂŠrat, Sophie MĂŠry, Discovery of Charred Yarn in a Bronze Age Burial at Hili (Abu Dhabi Region, United Arab Emirates) Carmen Alfaro Giner, Late Roman Textiles in the North of Spain (;Las Ermitas, Vitoria) Ida Demant, Textiles and Dress-Fasteners from Lerdal Grave 101 Heidemarie Farke,Textile Spuren in einem kaiserzeitliche Grab aus Norddeutschland Katarzyna Barska, The Roman Period warp-weighted Loom from Ozarow Mazowiecki, Poland Chris Verhecken-Lammens, Marc Rogge, Antoine de Moor, Textiles found in a Merovingian Woman's Grave at Beerlegem, Belgium Marianne Vedeler, Pleated Fragments of Clothing from Norway Ulla Mannering, Dress in Scandinavian Iconography of the 5th to 10th centuries A.D. Antoinette Rast-Eicher, Early Medieval Costume in Switzerland Anne Hedeager Krag, New Light on a Viking Garment from Ladby, Denmark Milena BravermanovĂĄ, The oldest Textile items from the Reliquary Tomb of St. Ludmila Elizabeth Wincott Heckett, A Tenth Century Cloth from Bogstown Co. Meath Malgorzata Grupa, Textiles from the Early Medieval Cemetery at Kaldus, Pomerania, Poland Eva I. Andersson, Written Traces ; Wills in 13th to 15th century Scandinavia Susan MĂśller-Wiering, Schiffbau und Textil: Ansätze zu einer systematischen Untersuchung von Kalfat Lise Raeder Knudsen, Written Patterns in Early Tablet Weaving Katarzyna Urbaniak-Walczak, Ein koptisches Textilfragment in Leinwand-Schuss-Kompositbindung aus der Sammlung des Nationalmuseums in Warschau Marek Trojanowicz, Izabella Surowiec, Jowita Orska-Gawrys, Bogdan Szostek, Katarzyna Urbaniak-Walczak, Magdalena Biesaga, Chromatographic Examination of Dyes Extracted from Coptic Textiles from the Collections of the National Museum in Warsaw Klaus Tidow, Neue Funde von Webstuhlteilen und Geweben aus Ausgrabungen in Braunschweig (Niedersachsen) und Wiesloch (Baden-WĂźrttemberg) Fabian Peise, Eine LĂźbecker Kase im Danziger Paramentenschatz Hanna Zimmerman, 16th century Hose and their Manufacture Anna Drazkowska, 17th-18th century Clothing from Children's Graves discovered in the Church at Kostrzyn on the Oder, Poland Gudrun BĂśttcher, Versuche und Ergebnisse bei der Rekonstruktion von Nadelbindungstextilien Britt Nowak, Zur Beiarbeitung und Konservierung von Goldfäden aus dem frĂźhmittelalterlichen Männergrab 21 in Lauchheim/Mittelhofen (Ostalbkreis/Baden-WĂźrttemberg) Elizabeth E. Peacock, Moseforsøg ; Two generations of Bog Burial Studies. Interim Textile Results. Eva Andersson, The reconstruction of Archaeological Textiles, a Source Critical Approach -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:35:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BZcs1001712 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47BYWgh007843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:34:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47BYPRM003497; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:34:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j44JPrGM062460 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 13:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp812.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 May 2005 19:25:47 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050504201847.014d57d8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 20:23:49 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together In-Reply-To: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A72200745672080907 0E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:55 04/05/2005 +0000, you wrote: >Hhhm. It depends on how much work you'll want to put into it. Years ago >I took apart a couture men's jacket and found lots of interal stuff that >just were too cool > >Sew the wool jacket body together with out the collar and sleeves; same >for lining. The internal sutff was a bit of thin wool cotton around the >head and back shoulders of the armholes, and in the top/back head of the >sleeve (wool sleeve) to get a good lay on the armhole head. Hand stitched >twill tape along any diagonal 'fold/roll' lines, meaning if there's a >lapel type feature on the jacket, you could reinforce the roll line. If >not, you can just hand stitch the twill tape to just the fold/roll line of >the 'collar'. There was twill tape around the jacket armhole, at the >stress point of button holes the fold/roll line of the hems of both the >jacket and sleeves. > >The collar wool and lining was sewn together and then inset onto the neck >of the wool jacket, then the lining whould be sewn over all the >thicknesses of collar and wool jacket down the fronts. To be sure you >have a better time of turning the coat (not distort the lining armhole), >you might want to leave part of the jacket hem unsewn (if you plan on >sewing the lining and the wool together at the hem), so you can pull it >right side out that way, and not through the armhole. > >Sew the sleeve wool and lining together and inset into armhole (this is >the time where you'd insert the thin layer of wool cotton, for fillng out >the sleeve. Don't put too much!). Handsew lining down. If you are hem >finishing the jacket wool and lining, be sure to sew anchoring loops at >the hem. > >Anyhow, I hope this helps. and hopefully i have not mixed things up, as >I'm due to work in 5 minutes! I would have thought that for a sailor's jacket, the above is not entirely necessary. I have not found such modern tailoring before c1830 (ish!). The lining and interlining of 18th century coats is not the same as modern coats - there is a diagram in "Cut of Men's Clothes" which shows much of the padding etc. required for an upper class coat, and I think I have seen another for a child's coat. From a purely practical point of view I would not have thought this would be done for a sailor's coat. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:36:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BaP12001716 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:36:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47BZWgh007895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:35:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47BZVOT004385; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:35:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44KbrTJ025226 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 14:38:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from generys@blazemail.com) Received: from pmta02.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121A1403B0 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 13:37:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQBKBEVCeTKcfovm1AIAAAAB,982738999416c7b85e63b614933765dd Received: from marketing3 (69.38.51.209 [69.38.51.209]) by pmta02.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY) with ESMTP id 27978BCD for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 13:37:48 -0700 From: "Jennifer / Guenievre" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 16:37:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <20050504202038.5388.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Thread-Index: AcVQ55qEleIb5043R/ePqimB7xxj9QAARf9w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20050504203748.121A1403B0@omta18.mta.everyone.net> X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j44KbrTJ025226 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The first part sounds more like they're talking about food - a boiled might be short for "a boiled dinner" - ie an Irish boiled dinner (thus the comparison to England) - something like http://beef.allrecipes.com/az/30918.asp . Not sure about the clothing part, though... Gueničvre > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Kathryn Parke > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 4:21 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term > > > Hello, all -- > > I hoping one of you can help me with a term I ran across in a 1951 novel > (Margery Sharps Lisa Lillywhite), which is a reference to a mans being > dressed in a boiled. I know what boiled wool is, and wondered if this > were just a shortened version of a suit made of boiled wool, perhaps? But > that doesnt entirely make sense to me in context. Here are the two > relevant quotes: > > We offer a little collation on Sunday, at nine oclock. I know it is not > customary in England to honour the Sabbath with a boiled; I leave the > point to your discretion > > Our hero (such as he is!) is put off by the sender, but: > > Even so Martin did not put on his boiled; he compromised with a dark suit > and a white shirt. > > Thanks in advance to any of you who can enlighten me! > > KP > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:36:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BaYJ6001720 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:36:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47BZqgh007950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:35:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47BZqd6004689; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j44Ms6cO049582 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 16:54:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.6b.44a1db2d (4402) for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 18:53:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.44a1db2d.2faaac7f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 18:53:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've mainly used two methods 1 - make up two complete jackets, including sleeves (one lining and one outer), then hem stitch the lining into the outer (while it's inside out) 2 - the way used traditionally by couture ateliers and tailors - make up the bodies as two jackets and attach them together - make up the sleeve, and stitch the wool part of the sleeve into the body (treating outer and lining of body as one), then whip stitch the sleeve lining in to cover the sleeve seam. There are other methods (at least two I can think of). Overall I prefer the latter, but I don't think either way is right or wrong - just personal preference. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:36:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BaaUx001723 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:36:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47Ba2gh008000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47Ba2OT004864; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:36:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j452wS0b042405 for ; Wed, 4 May 2005 20:58:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [66.179.109.174] (HELO p01i174.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.9.0-23) with SMTP id 9db89724.2109139888.2072.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Wed, 04 May 2005 20:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29545 invoked from network); 4 May 2005 20:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com) (199.184.176.8) by p01i174.mxlogic.net with SMTP; 4 May 2005 20:33:19 -0000 Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 May 2005 14:28:27 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:28:26 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15DBC13FC@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Mom's Goop (was RE: grease on fur) Thread-Index: AcVOAwAXft9oY239R+SSu8ekWqAP5QC5HXKg From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 May 2005 20:28:28.0194 (UTC) FILETIME=[D4739820:01C550E7] X-Spam: [F=0.5000000000] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [66.179.109.174] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j452wS0b042405 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mom's Goop (was RE: grease on fur) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO BTW, there is also "Mom's Goop" which is supposed to take up stains on fabric. The company is at http://www.goophandcleaner.com Marc --------------------------------- Do you have any experience with this on a cotton shirt? I've just managed my 'clever trick of the day', i.e. flipping a black flair pen point-first into my new white embroidered blouse. *Insert sound of grinding teeth here* Kate McClure And for my next magical trick . . . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:41:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BfKMF001760 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:41:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47BeOgh008629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47BeNSa008449; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:40:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4673umi015018 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 01:03:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4673q2h014737 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 03:03:55 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.86.26] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-86-26.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.86.26]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4673nUo103910 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 03:03:53 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050505235805.026281f8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 23:59:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] couture cloaks? In-Reply-To: <200505060630.j466URJv092076@net.indra.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This wonderful answer brings to mind a question - is there such a thing >as a "couture" cloak? If there was/is - how would it be put together? >Cheers, Aylwen > > >It's possible. It would be mostly hand sewn, with careful attention to >pressing of the seams. Stylish, and made from a high quality fabric. Hem >would be hand sewn with a stabilizer such as twill tape or horse hair braid. In the late 1800s-early 1900s, Paquin made couture cloaks, capelets, and things like that. Paquin was a contemporary of Worth, who invented the couture fashion industry as we know it today. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:41:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BfWZE001763 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47Beigh008718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:40:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47BehuZ008793; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf38.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf38.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46DvHjC096381 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 07:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip01.cluster1.charter.net (mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.131]) by mxsf38.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j46DvBxv029528 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 09:57:11 -0400 Received: from fep04.charter.net (HELO 209.225.8.224) (209.225.8.84) by mxip01.cluster1.charter.net with SMTP; 06 May 2005 09:57:11 -0400 Message-Id: <41dodb$n8nfv9@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> X-Ironport-AV: i="3.92,161,1112587200"; d="scan'208"; a="780910569:sNHT1093834414" X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.18 (webedge20-101-1108-20050216) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 9:57:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > At our local repair shops (central MA) a tune up for any machine(serger or standard) runs about 70$ no matter how old or new. It seems to be the standard bench fee for sewing machines in our area. I'm trying do decide if my old machine is worth a tune as well. I was lucky enough to take it apart myself and fix the timming by removing gunk from inside the bobbin casing. I should give myself the 70$ I saved to go buy more fabric. :) -annette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:41:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BffSL001766 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:41:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47Beugh008758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47Betb7008994; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from COMM1.connally.org (comm1.connally.org [207.54.224.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46E82jK005412 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:08:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tthreadgill@connally.org) Received: from cisd-MTA by COMM1.connally.org with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 06 May 2005 09:06:37 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:06:14 -0500 From: "Theresa Threadgill" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know in Port Arthur Tx just getting a tune up on my fairly new machine "Brother" it cost me $62. And then $47 for an old Singer just to clean it up and check it out. theresa >>> chiara@io.com 5/6/2005 8:46:21 AM >>> How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is pretty badly chewed up. I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing for the same amount. Opinions? Testimonies? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:41:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BfkjZ001770 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:41:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47Bf5gh008802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47Bf5EX009155; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:41:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j46F1EAO051486 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 09:01:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 23005 invoked from network); 6 May 2005 15:01:06 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 06 May 2005 08:01:06 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 6 May 2005 08:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1048.24.4.69.40.1115391673.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 08:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > > I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The > tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is > pretty badly chewed up. > > I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around > since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning > and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon > foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). > > I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these > years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for > this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it > were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I > would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing > for the same amount. > > Opinions? Testimonies? I have not had to do any major repair on my machine (knock on wood) but a "tune up" in my area runs over $50. And from prior experience getting parts for my serger, parts are not cheap either. So I would say that if you are happy with your machine & it has been good to you, then it is worth $75 to fix 'er up. Also, given the discussion a little while ago about older machines with good steel parts versus newer machines that have lots of plastic, you should hold onto your all steel machine. Think of it like an old reliable car that you don't have to make payments on but that requires a trip to the mechanics now and then. In the long run, you will get more for your buck than if you buy something new. My two cents.... Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:42:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BgDmb001778 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:42:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47BfWgh008881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47BfWKL009515; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46GiwYH054207 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 10:44:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22527 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:44:57 -0500 (CDT) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] couture cloaks? Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 11:44:51 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] couture cloaks? Thread-Index: AcVR/mDyNcaCrzkERsasemrxxGalmwABiOqAABUBwjA= From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j46GiwYH054207 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The House of Worth, Poiret, Fortuny, and others all made couture cloaks. Of course they were called many different things: mantles, opera cloaks, etc. They would be made to coordinate with one or more gowns or dresses. The House of Worth made a beautiful everning short cape in the mid-1890's that was a virtual copy of a Spanish nobleman's cape of the 1500's that was in Charles Worth's private collection. Such capes or cloaks(often made of lace in the early 20th century)would stand out from a "mere" dressmaker's or home-produced cloak or cape with an exclusive fabric, master embroidery and/or beading. The House of Worth was famous for its exclusive fabrics, custom-woven for Worth, with often large-scale motifs and designs based on some antique designs Charles Frederick Worth either owned or based on paintings he was familiar with. However, dressmaker or home-produced items could be as finally or better made in terms of quality of construction and women's magazines of the day were chock full of how-to projects to make their own dress accessories and trimmings as well as the clothing of the day. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 07:42:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47BgMO6001783 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 07:42:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47Bfegh008907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 05:41:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47BfeQJ009623; Sat, 7 May 2005 05:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j46HSf5G096095 for ; Fri, 6 May 2005 11:28:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A9431FC40094; Fri, 06 May 2005 13:28:35 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 6 May 05 17:28:32 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c55261$4c8028e0$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <050420051855.8615.42791ABB000AFAB8000021A722007456720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <62229.165.236.184.195.1115387181.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 13:30:28 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From another Kenmore lover, I think this is a good price. The last time I had the tension assembly replaced (12 years ago?) the cost for the unit alone was $30. At that time, I had in-home service from Sears for about $45 a year 'insurance, parts extra'. I usually pay pay about $50 for tune up with my present shop. The 'retired machine' is still my backup for the Pfaff Jeans and Satin; but ye olde Kenmore can still do Her Stuff! I got a new machine only because the Sears man was having trouble finding the esoteric parts (from the extensive Sears system of sewing machine inventory) to replace gears, belts and such that were showing their miles after 35 years of heavy constant use in the world of Costume. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 9:46 AM Subject: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question > How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > > I have a kenmore, it is over 25 years old, all steel parts. The > tension knob assembly broke completely off, the needle plate is > pretty badly chewed up. > > I took it in to a local sewing machine shop that has been around > since the town was a town. He quoted, for the repair and the tuning > and cleaning of the machine, 75.00. He also has the elusive Teflon > foot for my type of machine for 4 bucks (which is a good price!). > > I said go for it, the machine has been good to me for all these > years. But I want to know from you all ... is this a normal cost for > this much repair and tuning for a 25 year old Kenmore? I mean, if it > were a white or singer that was only 3 years old I am not sure if I > would want to spend that much when I can go buy the exact same thing > for the same amount. > > Opinions? Testimonies? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 08:38:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47Ccdet002079 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 08:38:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47Cbjgh015954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 06:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47CbcLp048744; Sat, 7 May 2005 06:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47CbZu7048671 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 06:37:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A688FB4003A; Sat, 07 May 2005 08:37:28 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.118 ([209.131.81.118] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 7 May 05 12:37:26 -0000 Message-ID: <001b01c55301$cc732ca0$765183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] couture cloaks? Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:39:22 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And, don't forget Chanel for her significant contributions in the Twentieth Century! Much of the home sewing trade was based on her democratic ideas of Class in society need not be regulated by the size of one's purse. Every woman had the right and means of being fashionable! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 12:44 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] couture cloaks? > > > The House of Worth, Poiret, Fortuny, and others all made couture cloaks. > Of course they were called many different things: mantles, opera cloaks, > etc. They would be made to coordinate with one or more gowns or dresses. > The House of Worth made a beautiful everning short cape in the > mid-1890's that was a virtual copy of a Spanish nobleman's cape of the > 1500's that was in Charles Worth's private collection. Such capes or > cloaks(often made of lace in the early 20th century)would stand out from > a "mere" dressmaker's or home-produced cloak or cape with an exclusive > fabric, master embroidery and/or beading. The House of Worth was famous > for its exclusive fabrics, custom-woven for Worth, with often > large-scale motifs and designs based on some antique designs Charles > Frederick Worth either owned or based on paintings he was familiar with. > > However, dressmaker or home-produced items could be as finally or better > made in terms of quality of construction and women's magazines of the > day were chock full of how-to projects to make their own dress > accessories and trimmings as well as the clothing of the day. > > Cindy Abel > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 12:35:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47GZw13003587 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:35:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47GVEgh007833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 10:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47GVAE6011277; Sat, 7 May 2005 10:31:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47GV9pU011202 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 10:31:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 ([204.127.197.111]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <200505071631030130050n3se>; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:31:03 +0000 Received: from [67.168.12.165] by 204.127.197.111; Sat, 07 May 2005 16:31:02 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 16:31:02 +0000 Message-Id: <050720051631.17219.427CED4600089F150000434322007374780809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You may be quite right. I'm sorry if I've given our bad or wrong construction information for 1830 ish clothing...1830 ish is not my period. My reply is purely from a informational perspective, of what I've seen done in tailoring. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > At 18:55 04/05/2005 +0000, you wrote: > >Hhhm. It depends on how much work you'll want to put into it. Years ago > >I took apart a couture men's jacket and found lots of interal stuff that > >just were too cool > > > >Sew the wool jacket body together with out the collar and sleeves; same > >for lining. The internal sutff was a bit of thin wool cotton around the > >head and back shoulders of the armholes, and in the top/back head of the > >sleeve (wool sleeve) to get a good lay on the armhole head. Hand stitched > >twill tape along any diagonal 'fold/roll' lines, meaning if there's a > >lapel type feature on the jacket, you could reinforce the roll line. If > >not, you can just hand stitch the twill tape to just the fold/roll line of > >the 'collar'. There was twill tape around the jacket armhole, at the > >stress point of button holes the fold/roll line of the hems of both the > >jacket and sleeves. > > > >The collar wool and lining was sewn together and then inset onto the neck > >of the wool jacket, then the lining whould be sewn over all the > >thicknesses of collar and wool jacket down the fronts. To be sure you > >have a better time of turning the coat (not distort the lining armhole), > >you might want to leave part of the jacket hem unsewn (if you plan on > >sewing the lining and the wool together at the hem), so you can pull it > >right side out that way, and not through the armhole. > > > >Sew the sleeve wool and lining together and inset into armhole (this is > >the time where you'd insert the thin layer of wool cotton, for fillng out > >the sleeve. Don't put too much!). Handsew lining down. If you are hem > >finishing the jacket wool and lining, be sure to sew anchoring loops at > >the hem. > > > >Anyhow, I hope this helps. and hopefully i have not mixed things up, as > >I'm due to work in 5 minutes! > > > I would have thought that for a sailor's jacket, the above is not entirely > necessary. I have not found such modern tailoring before c1830 (ish!). The > lining and interlining of 18th century coats is not the same as modern > coats - there is a diagram in "Cut of Men's Clothes" which shows much of > the padding etc. required for an upper class coat, and I think I have seen > another for a child's coat. From a purely practical point of view I would > not have thought this would be done for a sailor's coat. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 12:46:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47Gkgw9003709 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:46:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47GjRgh009488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 10:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47GjQGk021348; Sat, 7 May 2005 10:45:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47GjP4p021324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 10:45:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:46057 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DUSQf-0000dX-BO for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 12:45:25 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.158 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3804.198.93.211.158.1115484327.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 12:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.158 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <41dodb$n8nfv9@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <41dodb$n8nfv9@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >> How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? >> > you know, I wasn't going to answer this thread, since all the answers so far have echoed my sentiments, but I think I would like to say here, that just about the only reason to get rid of such a good machine, in my opinion is if parts just become unavailable and I couldn't find a decent parts machine in a couple years afterward. I mean think about it. this is a machine with no built in obsolescence, as far as I can see. it is built to last. and as far as I can see, there are no real inovations in sewing machines since the zigzag, except maybe the stretch stitch. So why not fix it as long as possible? anything you could replace it with would be a lesser machine or MUCH more expensive. and it will STILL need repair, so you'd be paying extra for the priviledge of taking care of a different machine. So, there, FWIW, is my opinion. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 13:01:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47H1MBV003855 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:01:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47H0pgh011173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 11:00:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47H0oaQ033318; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:00:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j47H0lqL033218 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 11:00:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2005 17:00:41 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050507175629.014d6c60@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 17:58:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] sequence of events for sewing jacket together In-Reply-To: <050720051631.17219.427CED4600089F1500004343220073747808090 70E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 16:31 07/05/2005 +0000, you wrote: >You may be quite right. I'm sorry if I've given our bad or wrong >construction information for 1830 ish clothing...1830 ish is not my period. > >My reply is purely from a informational perspective, of what I've seen >done in tailoring. Greg is an 18th century sailor/pirate - I made him a coat a few years ago when he lived in England!! The information you give I should have said thanks for, as it reinforces my later tailoring efforts. >-------------- Original message -------------- > > > At 18:55 04/05/2005 +0000, you wrote: > > >Hhhm. It depends on how much work you'll want to put into it. Years ago > > >I took apart a couture men's jacket and found lots of interal stuff that > > >just were too cool > > > > > >Sew the wool jacket body together with out the collar and sleeves; same > > >for lining. The internal sutff was a bit of thin wool cotton around the > > >head and back shoulders of the armholes, and in the top/back head of the > > >sleeve (wool sleeve) to get a good lay on the armhole head. Hand stitched > > >twill tape along any diagonal 'fold/roll' lines, meaning if there's a > > >lapel type feature on the jacket, you could reinforce the roll line. If > > >not, you can just hand stitch the twill tape to just the fold/roll > line of > > >the 'collar'. There was twill tape around the jacket armhole, at the > > >stress point of button holes the fold/roll line of the hems of both the > > >jacket and sleeves. > > > > > >The collar wool and lining was sewn together and then inset onto the neck > > >of the wool jacket, then the lining whould be sewn over all the > > >thicknesses of collar and wool jacket down the fronts. To be sure you > > >have a better time of turning the coat (not distort the lining armhole), > > >you might want to leave part of the jacket hem unsewn (if you plan on > > >sewing the lining and the wool together at the hem), so you can pull it > > >right side out that way, and not through the armhole. > > > > > >Sew the sleeve wool and lining together and inset into armhole (this is > > >the time where you'd insert the thin layer of wool cotton, for fillng out > > >the sleeve. Don't put too much!). Handsew lining down. If you are hem > > >finishing the jacket wool and lining, be sure to sew anchoring loops at > > >the hem. > > > > > >Anyhow, I hope this helps. and hopefully i have not mixed things up, as > > >I'm due to work in 5 minutes! > > > > > > I would have thought that for a sailor's jacket, the above is not entirely > > necessary. I have not found such modern tailoring before c1830 (ish!). The > > lining and interlining of 18th century coats is not the same as modern > > coats - there is a diagram in "Cut of Men's Clothes" which shows much of > > the padding etc. required for an upper class coat, and I think I have seen > > another for a child's coat. From a purely practical point of view I would > > not have thought this would be done for a sailor's coat. > > > > Suzi > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 14:11:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47IBYC7004824 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 14:11:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47IAngh018331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 12:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47IAkt0083042; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:10:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47IAiaD082948 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A49D279F0080; Sat, 07 May 2005 14:10:37 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 7 May 05 18:10:34 -0000 Message-ID: <001701c55330$5616d640$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <41dodb$n8nfv9@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> <3804.198.93.211.158.1115484327.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:12:30 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kitty, you are so right. My Beloved Kenmore, as I have said in the past, was my (still first) best investment ever. But the very suggestion that parts might not be available for ever was exactly my reason for finally breaking down and getting something newer. When the motor had to be replaced, it took my very faithful Sears repairman 6 weeks to locate the small machine motor and there was a gear assembly that he also thought I should replace before it too became obsolete. So, since he was working on All sewing machines, I asked him which machines were the least frequent on his list for repair. The Pfaff Jeans and Satin was one of his recommendations for 'semi automatic' reliability. I will also add, that in March I picked up a Kenmore 158.3180 virtually new, but without anything but the power cord, in a thrift shop for $20. You can believe that I snatched it up and am collecting the necessary pieces like the buttonhole plate and cam knob from E-bay for far less than these pieces are available from Sears. This machine sold for about$500 new in the mid 1980's. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question > > > >> How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > >> > > > you know, I wasn't going to answer this thread, since all the answers so > far have echoed my sentiments, but I think I would like to say here, that > just about the only reason to get rid of such a good machine, in my > opinion is if parts just become unavailable and I couldn't find a decent > parts machine in a couple years afterward. > > I mean think about it. this is a machine with no built in obsolescence, > as far as I can see. it is built to last. and as far as I can see, there > are no real inovations in sewing machines since the zigzag, except maybe > the stretch stitch. So why not fix it as long as possible? anything > you could replace it with would be a lesser machine or MUCH more > expensive. and it will STILL need repair, so you'd be paying extra for > the priviledge of taking care of a different machine. > > So, there, FWIW, is my opinion. Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 14:16:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47IGG8c004862 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 14:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47IFagh018615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 12:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47IFa4k086266; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:15:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47IFXZL086158 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:15:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A5BE13F300BA; Sat, 07 May 2005 14:15:26 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 7 May 05 18:15:24 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c55331$02e08a60$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <41dodb$n8nfv9@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> <3804.198.93.211.158.1115484327.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:17:20 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, and did you do another Tea this year? I attended one a couple of weeks ago. I was the "Program". I brought some 'show and tell' items re the Tea Table, and used readings from some of my 19th C Etiquette books. Lots of fun. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question > > > >> How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good machine? > >> > > > you know, I wasn't going to answer this thread, since all the answers so > far have echoed my sentiments, but I think I would like to say here, that > just about the only reason to get rid of such a good machine, in my > opinion is if parts just become unavailable and I couldn't find a decent > parts machine in a couple years afterward. > > I mean think about it. this is a machine with no built in obsolescence, > as far as I can see. it is built to last. and as far as I can see, there > are no real inovations in sewing machines since the zigzag, except maybe > the stretch stitch. So why not fix it as long as possible? anything > you could replace it with would be a lesser machine or MUCH more > expensive. and it will STILL need repair, so you'd be paying extra for > the priviledge of taking care of a different machine. > > So, there, FWIW, is my opinion. Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 15:11:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47JBfqY005214 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 15:11:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47JAjgh022236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 13:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47JAibt023839; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j47JAgVj023815 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:10:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 30672 invoked from network); 7 May 2005 19:30:32 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 07 May 2005 12:30:32 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1427.24.4.69.40.1115493042.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: 6667 <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 12:10:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Slow list... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It seems like the list has been slow lately. Is there an event going on? Are people just out enjoying the spring weather instead of playing on the computer? Just curious.... Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 15:33:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47JXour005420 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 15:33:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47JWngh024575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 13:32:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47JWhxd039575; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j47JWdpF039455 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2005 19:32:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202121.014d6da0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 20:22:21 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slow list... In-Reply-To: <1427.24.4.69.40.1115493042.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:10 07/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >It seems like the list has been slow lately. Is there an event going on? >Are people just out enjoying the spring weather instead of playing on the >computer? > >Just curious.... > >Diana Mine is coming in "chunks" - a lot all at once, then nothing. I fear there is a "chunk" missing in the ether though!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 15:34:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47JY81Z005424 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 15:34:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47JXMgh024665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 13:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47JXLHL040059; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:33:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j47JWdrJ039459 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 13:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 May 2005 19:32:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202224.015ed5c8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 20:29:28 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <1427.24.4.69.40.1115493042.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Query re 17th century bodices X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone suggest other sources for studying 17th century (English and European, or N. American) ladies' bodices than the following. I have an extensive collection of general books such as Boucher, Tilke, James Laver,and others (senior moment as I cannot remember the name of the big maroon one! - yay Millia Davenport.) I have Cut of Women's Clothes Arnold Hunnisett Historic Costume in Detail Hart and North Danish book on Christian lV which has a bodice. Small handbooks from the London Museum (all of them) I would prefer photos of originals, rather than re-drawings, good though those listed above are. Thanking you in hopes. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 18:06:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47M6fNx006536 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 18:06:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47M5rgh009085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 16:05:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47M5jTF041190; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:05:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47M5BSa040976 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:05:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.a0.27efbdf9 (4254) for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 18:05:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 18:05:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/7/2005 7:35:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, generys@blazemail.com writes: The first part sounds more like they're talking about food - a boiled might be short for "a boiled dinner" - That does seem to make more sense from the context. I believe that the "New England boiled dinner" was sometimes made on Saturday, to eat cold on Sunday, so one did not violate the Sabbath by cooking. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 18:34:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47MYaew006762 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 18:34:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47MXxgh011053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 16:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47MXvqt058586; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:33:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47MXTxD058369 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:33:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1813BC99 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 17:33:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 17:33:55 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for makeup X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Morning, I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore (around here anyway). I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need opaque in-your-face color. Any suggestions? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 18:42:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47MgfTQ006796 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 18:42:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47Mg8gh011807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 16:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47Mg74x063575; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47Mg51t063484 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:42:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA4B377D8 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 17:42:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <427D4459.40604@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 17:42:33 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > The first part sounds more like they're talking about food - a boiled might > be short for "a boiled dinner" - > > >> That does seem to make more sense from the context. I believe that the "New >> England boiled dinner" was sometimes made on Saturday, to eat cold on >> Sunday, so one did not violate the Sabbath by cooking. > That was my first thought, too, except that I've *never* heard it refered to like that. Even my grandparents didn't call it that. Then there's the term "collation", which is a light meal, something a boiled dinner certainly is not. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 18:54:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47Ms3JH006840 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 18:54:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47MrLgh012472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 16:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47MrK1q070229; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:53:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j47MrIIE070210 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 3292 invoked from network); 7 May 2005 23:13:10 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 07 May 2005 16:13:10 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2005 15:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1639.24.4.69.40.1115506398.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> References: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? My first idea was Halloween makeup. I did a quick search and there are plenty of online suppliers. I usually stockpile in October so that I have things all year 'round. Theater makeup will also work but it seems like it runs more expensive than the Halloween version. Then again, if the makeup has to withstand a lot of wear (i.e. many hours) then theater quality makeup may be best for you. Good luck! BTW...what are you going to wear it for? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 19:36:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47NaVpb007091 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47NZkgh016631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 17:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47NZgpJ096796; Sat, 7 May 2005 17:35:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47NZeFD096779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 17:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:52579 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DUYpj-0002ZC-7R for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 19:35:43 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.240 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4402.198.93.211.240.1115508944.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 19:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.240 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <001701c55330$5616d640$655183d1@rmitchellras> References: <41dodb$n8nfv9@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> <3804.198.93.211.158.1115484327.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> <001701c55330$5616d640$655183d1@rmitchellras> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I asked him which > machines were the least frequent on his list for repair. The Pfaff Jeans > and Satin was one of his > recommendations for 'semi automatic' reliability. > This is good to know, thanks. Kitty > I will also add, that in March I picked up a Kenmore 158.3180 virtually > new, but without anything but the power cord, in a thrift shop for $20. > You can believe that I snatched it up and am collecting the necessary > pieces like the buttonhole plate and cam knob from E-bay for far less > than these pieces are available from Sears. This machine sold for > about$500 new in the mid 1980's. > > Kathleen You know, anytime I find a machine which gives me the sturdy reliability, or I should say that any machine which reminds me of the ones which have given me the sturdy reliability that the Necchi and the Kenmore do, I snap them up. I have three girls, two of whom sew and all "borrow" machines from me. NO ONE gets the necchi so they have to make do with what I have as my backup machines. I also provide to the girls of our church, so I am always on the look out for these machines. I just wish I could find homes for the black single stitch machines I have, they so need some loving care. I would love to fix them up as handcranks if I knew where they could find homes. LOL Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 19:50:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j47Noh1C007198 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:50:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j47NlIgh019151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 17:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47NlEKh005971; Sat, 7 May 2005 17:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tombstone.b.org.nz (qmailr@tombstone.paradise.gen.nz [202.49.254.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47NlBn2005849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 17:47:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gold@where.else.net.nz) Received: (qmail 21078 invoked by uid 1057); 7 May 2005 23:47:09 -0000 Received: from 203.79.122.104 by tombstone (envelope-from , uid 71) with qmail-scanner-1.24 (clamdscan: 0.80/599. spamassassin: 3.0.1. Clear:RC:1(203.79.122.104):. Processed in 0.030913 secs); 07 May 2005 23:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.100?) (gold@203.79.122.104) by tombstone.paradise.gen.nz with SMTP; 7 May 2005 23:47:09 -0000 Message-ID: <427D537A.60402@where.else.net.nz> Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 11:47:06 +1200 From: Melissa Brown Muckart User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup References: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried the costume rental stores in your area? If that fails, you could always order it online. A quick google search for "theatrical makeup" turned up quite a few places. With luck, someone on this list will now how you make them yourself. Best of luck! Dawn wrote: > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 21:13:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j481DGHB007708 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j481CFgh002485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 19:12:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481CAZZ061083; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:12:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481C9Ks061072 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DUaL2-0006d9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 18:12:09 -0700 Message-ID: <427D676F.8050907@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 18:12:15 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Query re 17th century bodices References: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202224.015ed5c8@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202224.015ed5c8@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At least one of the Fashion in Detail books have some up close shots of extant garments, a few of which are bodices. Sg Suzi Clarke wrote: > > Can anyone suggest other sources for studying 17th century (English > and European, or N. American) ladies' bodices than the following. I > have an extensive collection of general books such as Boucher, Tilke, > James Laver,and others (senior moment as I cannot remember the name of > the big maroon one! - yay Millia Davenport.) > > I have > > Cut of Women's Clothes > Arnold > Hunnisett > Historic Costume in Detail Hart and North > Danish book on Christian lV which has a bodice. > Small handbooks from the London Museum (all of them) > > > I would prefer photos of originals, rather than re-drawings, good > though those listed above are. > > Thanking you in hopes. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 21:14:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j481E14P007712 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:14:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j481DEgh002532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 19:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481DEvI061618; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:13:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net (outbound05.telus.net [199.185.220.224]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481Ch7s061313 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:12:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kiri@telus.net) Received: from kiri ([64.180.214.240]) by priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050508011237.GSEB11723.priv-edtnes40.telusplanet.net@kiri> for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:12:37 -0600 From: "Crystal Gold" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 18:12:37 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you tried Make Up Forever? They over a great range of high-quality makeup in "unusual" colours. -Crystal. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: May 7, 2005 3:34 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] looking for makeup Morning, I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore (around here anyway). I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need opaque in-your-face color. Any suggestions? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 21:32:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j481WEiM007800 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:32:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j481Vjgh003791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 19:31:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481Vix0072642; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481Vgx0072617 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:31:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A7D215CB9 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 18:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 21:31:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <4402.198.93.211.240.1115508944.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcVTXZP/2w7QQcRXRzGE91Gynx1FJAAD8+CA Message-Id: <20050508013141.0A7D215CB9@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kitty wrote: I just wish I could find homes for the black single stitch machines I have, they so need some loving care. I would love to fix them up as handcranks if I knew where they could find homes. Reply: Umn, Kitty, where are you? I am one of a number of folks who collect the old black straight stitchers. What models do you have? You can email me off list if you wish. megan at benchite dot com is the address. If you are nowhere near me, well, I might know somebody close enough to help. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 21:58:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j481wVtW007918 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:58:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j481vpgh005954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 19:57:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481vmDa088882; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:57:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j481vklg088852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:57:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:55927 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DUb3E-0006zz-0g for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 21:57:48 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.240 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4547.198.93.211.240.1115517470.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 21:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.240 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <20050508013141.0A7D215CB9@mail03.powweb.com> References: <4402.198.93.211.240.1115508944.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> <20050508013141.0A7D215CB9@mail03.powweb.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Reply: Umn, Kitty, where are you? I am one of a number of folks who > collect the old black straight stitchers. What models do you have? You > can email me off list if you wish. megan at benchite dot com is the > address. If you are nowhere near me, well, I might know somebody close > enough to help. > -Megan > > I have two model 15 clones from the fifties, and two model 66's. I'm not sure what else I have but those are the ones that come to mind. They are the ones which are true orphans, they were seperated from their treadles when the antique dealer/butcher I got them from made end tables out of their cabinets and bases. Kitty, in SW Pennsylvania. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 23:10:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j483Aa14008342 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 23:10:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4839tgh011259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 21:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4839rgO031714; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:09:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4839pqa031680 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:09:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABC603FA14; Sat, 7 May 2005 20:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 8103437CF4; Sat, 7 May 2005 20:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 20:09:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historic Costume List X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5CfYL+AAcheQEAAAAE,1a76eebea7d76a9b5008a3f7de84d7ef Message-Id: <20050508030950.8103437CF4@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Reconstructing History , TheCostumersManifesto , Authentic SCA Subject: [h-cost] AAAAARRRGGGHHH - Re-enactors! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have learnt an object lesson today - whenever someone is borrowing costuming on short notice, no matter if they say 'oh, I only need such-and-such item,' I will henceforth make sure that I have EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF COSTUMING IN MY POSSESSION ready and available, because as sure as God made little green apples, such-and-such item will NOT be the only item that the borrower will need! ( Can't half tell what happened in our house this morning, can you? ;-} ) Re-enactors!!!!! *growl* *gnash teeth* Honestly, I sometimes think that half of them couldn't organise their way out of a wet paper bag. Sorry about the grumble, but I had to vent! ( By the way, I am casting no aspersions on re-enactors I don't know, I am chucking nasturtiums at some of the ones I know too well e.g the ones involved in this mornings' little farce! ) Thanks for listening. I feel better now. =) Joannah. ( who is now off to play taxi service to said re-enactors *quiet growl* ) _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 7 23:18:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j483Is29008429 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 23:18:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j483H7h7011894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 7 May 2005 21:17:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j482pUMW020946; Sat, 7 May 2005 20:51:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52806.mail.yahoo.com (web52806.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j482pSXj020885 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 20:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 28002 invoked by uid 60001); 8 May 2005 02:51:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=TMFBtmch79o3rqZmZBlHWcmEpJcK5k7BSehym7f9yAE0T1NrGpu73+GBntXbw4QD7+KFmUixhDGrobY6qAOqQSWuapHOogmMaz22K1yaAU09NCfNPsRB39auD18/dIeO0bZ9aO1tY6BahY1fxv/lGuVfzj+JL0VzXyLwuA9Hl6Q= ; Message-ID: <20050508025122.28000.qmail@web52806.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52806.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 07 May 2005 19:51:22 PDT Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 19:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, this was answered earlier by a couple of people on the list -- it's a reference to a "boiled shirt," which is a stiffly starched, formal white dress shirt -- having that much of the term, I then googled it, and found out lots and lots I didn't know before! Isn't this a great list?! :) KP AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/7/2005 7:35:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, generys@blazemail.com writes: The first part sounds more like they're talking about food - a boiled might be short for "a boiled dinner" - That does seem to make more sense from the context. I believe that the "New England boiled dinner" was sometimes made on Saturday, to eat cold on Sunday, so one did not violate the Sabbath by cooking. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 07:33:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48BXutM023377 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:33:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48BXFYs023384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 05:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48BX9MG040729; Sun, 8 May 2005 05:33:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao10.cox.net (lakermmtao10.cox.net [68.230.240.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47IcQBf001272 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 12:38:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mischele1@cox.net) Received: from Mischele ([68.1.69.192]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with SMTP id <20050507183817.EUES7787.lakermmtao10.cox.net@Mischele> for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 14:38:17 -0400 Message-ID: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> From: "mischele1" To: Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 13:38:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j48BXutM023377 Status: RO Greetings, I just saw Kingdom of Heaven and am wondering about the costumes that the leading actress wore. They were so beautiful. I would like to make something for an Arabian Nights event and am wondering how accurate they would be for referance. Thank You for your wisdom and input. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 07:35:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48BZroN023398 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:35:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48BZLYs023971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48BZIui042235; Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j47M1bFK038886 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 16:01:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 2186 invoked from network); 7 May 2005 22:21:28 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 07 May 2005 15:21:28 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2005 15:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1456.24.4.69.40.1115503297.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202224.015ed5c8@127.0.0.1> References: <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202224.015ed5c8@127.0.0.1> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Query re 17th century bodices From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Can anyone suggest other sources for studying 17th century (English and > European, or N. American) ladies' bodices than the following. Not for study but for pure costuming drool-ability....you must see Queen Margot. It is french with english subtitles. The dresses in the movie are to die for! Just ignore the ones that are fetish/raunchy. But the ones that are supposed to be historical are beautiful. By the way, the movie is a bit, um, sexual. Just a warning. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 07:36:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48BaBr2023402 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48BZcYs024065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48BZbff042490; Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j47NOmtC089928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 17:24:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:52381 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DUYf6-0003ZX-Qt for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 07 May 2005 19:24:47 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.240 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4396.198.93.211.240.1115508289.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 19:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.240 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <000901c55331$02e08a60$655183d1@rmitchellras> References: <41dodb$n8nfv9@mxip01a.cluster1.charter.net> <3804.198.93.211.158.1115484327.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> <000901c55331$02e08a60$655183d1@rmitchellras> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL, no, I would have liked to, but I am sticking to smaller tea occasions til my life settles down a bit. I don't know if I mentioned it but last year, just in time for my tea, I inherited two grandchildren since their parents were incapacitated. They are getting their lives back together now, but I still have a very hectic day most days and cannot plan my days very well. I am lucky if I can make it to the doctors for my appts without having to reschedule a couple times. So this year, I'm not doing a churchwide tea, but I do have a few people over now and then, and intend to make it more formal as soon as I get my house in order. This year another daughter intends to get married and I am making a walking skirt and a jacket to go with it. I am going to be making myself a corset in the next few weeks, then the skirt then the blouse. I am planning to make the corset in linen with either cording or boning, can't make up my mind. I want to have a smooth line, with no rolling, but also to be as comfortable as possible and heat is my biggest problem in August. Last time she got married I wore an all in one elastic garment and the whole bottom rolled up to my waist. try about six layers of elastic around your waist for five hours. LOL Kitty > Oh, and did you do another Tea this year? I attended one a couple of > weeks ago. I was the "Program". I brought some 'show and tell' items re > the Tea Table, and used readings from some of my 19th C Etiquette books. > Lots of fun. > > Kathleen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machine repair costs question > > >> > >> >> How much is your line in the sand for repairing an old good >> machine? >> >> >> > >> you know, I wasn't going to answer this thread, since all the answers >> so far have echoed my sentiments, but I think I would like to say >> here, that just about the only reason to get rid of such a good >> machine, in my opinion is if parts just become unavailable and I >> couldn't find a decent parts machine in a couple years afterward. >> >> I mean think about it. this is a machine with no built in >> obsolescence, as far as I can see. it is built to last. and as far >> as I can see, there are no real inovations in sewing machines since >> the zigzag, except maybe the stretch stitch. So why not fix it as >> long as possible? anything you could replace it with would be a >> lesser machine or MUCH more expensive. and it will STILL need >> repair, so you'd be paying extra for the priviledge of taking care of >> a different machine. >> >> So, there, FWIW, is my opinion. Kitty >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 07:36:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48BaP4c023405 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:36:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48BZjYs024099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48BZivO042591; Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j480YElc039435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 18:34:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j481q3mL000855 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 21:52:04 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 20:34:08 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505072034.08511.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 07 May 2005 6:33 pm, Dawn wrote: > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? There's got to be someplace on the Internet you can buy these things, and more... -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 07:36:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48Baems023408 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:36:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48BZnYs024115 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48BZngH042656; Sun, 8 May 2005 05:35:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j481G83r063267 for ; Sat, 7 May 2005 19:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp818.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2005 01:16:07 -0000 Message-ID: <007d01c5536b$8ee02ef0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 18:16:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you checked M.A.C.? They have strong colors and the pro shop has red in shadow & pigments. I think they also have some gold lip glosses, etc. If your not happy with what you find at M.A.C., try a Sephora, which has all the brands in one place. My daughter is a makeup artist, so if you still don't find what you're looking for, I can get you more info. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 3:33 PM Subject: [h-cost] looking for makeup > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I can > find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 07:47:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48BlXHA023457 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:47:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48BkeYs026352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 05:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48Bkdmn049592; Sun, 8 May 2005 05:46:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j48BkbFW049518 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 05:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2005 11:46:31 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050508124249.014d7390@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 12:43:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Query re 17th century bodices In-Reply-To: <1456.24.4.69.40.1115503297.squirrel@www.inreach.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202224.015ed5c8@127.0.0.1> <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20050430220047.46072.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050507202224.015ed5c8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:01 07/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > > > Can anyone suggest other sources for studying 17th century (English and > > European, or N. American) ladies' bodices than the following. > >Not for study but for pure costuming drool-ability....you must see Queen >Margot. It is french with english subtitles. The dresses in the movie >are to die for! Just ignore the ones that are fetish/raunchy. But the >ones that are supposed to be historical are beautiful. > >By the way, the movie is a bit, um, sexual. Just a warning. > >Diana Thank you - I did see it - such beautiful faces too - and it made me want to know more about the history of that time in France. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 10:01:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48E1S4b024548 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 10:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48E0rYs003996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 08:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48E0ojL036872; Sun, 8 May 2005 08:00:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48E0ihO036759 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 08:00:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3473FD47 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 8565D3939; Sun, 8 May 2005 07:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 07:00:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCfhuMAAThLgEAAAAB,5f526337756e25d1fd19cd51ee1f65ad Message-Id: <20050508140044.8565D3939@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you considered using lipstick for the eyeshadow and gold eyeshadow for the lipstick? Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 20:34:08 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup On Saturday 07 May 2005 6:33 pm, Dawn wrote: > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? There's got to be someplace on the Internet you can buy these things, and more... -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 10:43:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48EhAX6024739 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 10:43:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48EgSYs006495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 08:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48EgQTv064719; Sun, 8 May 2005 08:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48EgOQI064623 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 08:42:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([65.92.204.190]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050508144218.IAEQ1834.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 10:42:18 -0400 Message-ID: <006201c553dc$bff2d440$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050508140044.8565D3939@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 10:46:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Have you considered using lipstick for the eyeshadow and gold > eyeshadow for the lipstick? > > Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender Gold powder eyeshadow works very well as lipstick, you just put a base of lipgloss on first to give the powder something to stick to, this would even have much better staying power than lipstick. You have to be *very* careful when using red near your eyes though, many red dyes can cause infection and blindness. I would search out actual red eye makeup, as it's made specifically for that purpose, and therefore safe to be near your eyes. Just my two bits, Sheridan :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 11:33:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48FXlC8024992 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:33:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48FX7Ys010143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 09:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48FX2S3099267; Sun, 8 May 2005 09:33:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j48FWx6q099171 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 09:32:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005050811325304782 for ; Sun, 08 May 2005 11:32:53 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j48FWo0j004268 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:32:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901c553e3$3220a910$53a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 11:32:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try MUD - Makeup Designory, Los Angeles School of make-up. I googled "mud makeup design" . It's a school in Los Angeles that has programs in theatre, film, and regular makeup. I was fascinated at their booth at the USITT conference in Toronto. Their books show how to do all sorts of things. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crystal Gold" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for makeup > Have you tried Make Up Forever? > They over a great range of high-quality makeup in "unusual" colours. > > -Crystal. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dawn > Sent: May 7, 2005 3:34 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] looking for makeup > > > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 11:36:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48FaLF8025030 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:36:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48FZqYs010265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 09:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48FZqO8001203; Sun, 8 May 2005 09:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j48FZpE1001120 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 09:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005050811354504795 for ; Sun, 08 May 2005 11:35:46 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j48FZh0j004352 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:35:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002c01c553e3$991aa8f0$53a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 11:35:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just try http://www.makeupschool.com/ and see the face that comes up! Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crystal Gold" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:12 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for makeup > Have you tried Make Up Forever? > They over a great range of high-quality makeup in "unusual" colours. > > -Crystal. > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dawn > Sent: May 7, 2005 3:34 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] looking for makeup > > > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? > > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005 > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 06/05/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 13:53:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48Hrtq5025777 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:53:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48Hr0Ys023981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 11:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48Hqoef097512; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48HqljL097460 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:52:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DUpxO-0005e7-7s; Sun, 08 May 2005 17:52:46 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 18:51:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - general References: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> In-Reply-To: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<$Q8N+tlX4zNC8F4tgBrTWmsWvC>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to say I just saw it and I was very impressed. Some things were not accurate for the 1180s, and I suspect hoping for hose instead of trousers is a lost cause, but there was nothing horribly jarring. Nothing totally fantasy, nothing that had been over-elaborated, or over-grunged, to make it look "more medieval" and just end up more Hollywood. Of course, long Crusader robes and surcoats look very sexy on their own account (or have I been a Norman too long?) but I thought it was an excellent overall impression of the period. One for the costume movie bookshelf. Jean mischele1 wrote >Greetings, > >I just saw Kingdom of Heaven and am wondering about the costumes that >the leading actress wore. They were so beautiful. >I would like to make something for an Arabian Nights event and am >wondering how accurate they would be for referance. > >Thank You for your wisdom and input. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 13:54:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48HsGmF025780 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:54:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48Hr0Ys023980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 11:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48Hqog6097511; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48HqlxB097461 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:52:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DUpxO-0005e7-7s; Sun, 08 May 2005 17:52:46 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 18:51:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - general References: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> In-Reply-To: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<$Q8N+tlX4zNC8F4tgBrTWmsWvC>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to say I just saw it and I was very impressed. Some things were not accurate for the 1180s, and I suspect hoping for hose instead of trousers is a lost cause, but there was nothing horribly jarring. Nothing totally fantasy, nothing that had been over-elaborated, or over-grunged, to make it look "more medieval" and just end up more Hollywood. Of course, long Crusader robes and surcoats look very sexy on their own account (or have I been a Norman too long?) but I thought it was an excellent overall impression of the period. One for the costume movie bookshelf. Jean mischele1 wrote >Greetings, > >I just saw Kingdom of Heaven and am wondering about the costumes that >the leading actress wore. They were so beautiful. >I would like to make something for an Arabian Nights event and am >wondering how accurate they would be for referance. > >Thank You for your wisdom and input. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 14:11:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48IBtxE025870 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:11:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48IAHYs025100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 12:10:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IAGPa008927; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IACCk008867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:10:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j48I2rmT026829 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:02:53 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 08 May 2005 14:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <427E5601.9050601@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 14:10:09 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent References: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > I have to say I just saw it and I was very impressed. Some things were > not accurate for the 1180s, and I suspect hoping for hose instead of > trousers is a lost cause Yeah, sigh. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, though. Hey, just as a sanity check, folks -- does anyone know of any evidence of trousers for men in England in the 1200s? I'm having this online argument, see, and someone thinks I'm insane, but I'm fairly sure they didn't have them. (Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. We have to have authentic documentation for everything...") -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent A multimillion-dollar ad campaign blames Democrats for the fact that "courtrooms sit empty." In fact, there are now half as many judicial vacancies as when Bush took office. And of the 46 federal judgeships that remain vacant, Bush has named only 16 replacements. -- Factcheck.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 14:13:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48IDWuX025882 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:13:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48ID1Ys025255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 12:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48ID1te010798; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:13:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48ICxDt010720 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:12:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-67-163-120-131.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[67.163.120.131]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005050818125301400edj08e>; Sun, 8 May 2005 18:12:54 +0000 Message-ID: <06de01c553f9$8ddf7040$6a01a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 13:10:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: SteppesFP Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kingdom of Heaven - general X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I completely agree with this. I loved the long surcotes, the silk, the armour! Seeing Saddil F. acting again was also a HUGE bonus. He did a fantastic job! But that Saracen armour, OMG, now I want to hit the shop and just produce!!! (`'ˇ.¸(`'ˇ.¸(`'ˇ.¸¸.ˇ'´)¸.ˇ '´)¸.ˇ'´) Ťˇ.ˇ*¨`ˇ¤ Chiara ¤ˇ´¨*ˇ.ˇť (¸.ˇ'´(¸.ˇ'´(¸.ˇ'´`'ˇ.¸)`'ˇ .¸)`'ˇ.¸) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Cc: Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - general :I have to say I just saw it and I was very impressed. Some things were : not accurate for the 1180s, and I suspect hoping for hose instead of : trousers is a lost cause, but there was nothing horribly jarring. : Nothing totally fantasy, nothing that had been over-elaborated, or : over-grunged, to make it look "more medieval" and just end up more : Hollywood. Of course, long Crusader robes and surcoats look very sexy : on their own account (or have I been a Norman too long?) but I thought : it was an excellent overall impression of the period. One for the : costume movie bookshelf. : : Jean : : : mischele1 wrote : >Greetings, : > : >I just saw Kingdom of Heaven and am wondering about the costumes that : >the leading actress wore. They were so beautiful. : >I would like to make something for an Arabian Nights event and am : >wondering how accurate they would be for referance. : > : >Thank You for your wisdom and input. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 14:17:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48IHs8C025898 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:17:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48IHOYs025529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 12:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IHNfc013785; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:17:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j48IHKN9013695 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:17:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2005 18:17:14 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050508191124.014d7980@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 19:15:14 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent In-Reply-To: <427E5601.9050601@thibault.org> References: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:10 08/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Jean Waddie wrote: > >>I have to say I just saw it and I was very impressed. Some things were >>not accurate for the 1180s, and I suspect hoping for hose instead of >>trousers is a lost cause > >Yeah, sigh. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, though. > >Hey, just as a sanity check, folks -- does anyone know of any evidence of >trousers for men in England in the 1200s? I'm having this online >argument, see, and someone thinks I'm insane, but I'm fairly sure they >didn't have them. > >(Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a >public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. We >have to have authentic documentation for everything...") > >-- Not quite late enough I know, but some people seem to think that the "Bayeux Tapestry" shows Norman knights and foot soldiers in trousers. I don't have the reference unfortunately, but looked at some pictures and thought they could be right. Considering the tapestry was woven at the end of the 11th century, they *could* have spilled into the 12th? What about the book on Anglo Saxon clothing by ??Gail ....Crocker? - sorry, early medieval is not my thing. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 14:28:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48ISpUF025934 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:28:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48IRqYs026084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 12:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IRoXo020406; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IRkr9020295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:27:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48Jjbau021502 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:45:38 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 14:27:39 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050508191124.014d7980@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050508191124.014d7980@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505081427.39557.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 08 May 2005 2:15 pm, Suzi Clarke wrote: [snip] > What about the book on Anglo Saxon clothing by ??Gail ....Crocker? - sorry, > early medieval is not my thing. Dress in Anglo-Saxon England by Dr. Gale Owen-Crocker is what you're thinking of. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 14:33:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48IXVFr025976 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48IWXYs026539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 12:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IWXMn023913; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IWUlk023822 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:32:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1229419nzp for ; Sun, 08 May 2005 11:32:25 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=aKfKakiyuS4/CaUQjaQqIX+7/1lkYRzlsP+BlMPBaQP9O2Fxryhz/B2JWrqb2ELizSOLdAs8lkwXowSoVoZB5VejgEsi6nk+FWD0PLRbTn6ZcFg7o2FrjPzzG/cMURjas77Idhbx2owGkCXPhOM1VuedrHo+rqdgJ2O+6cW9pew= Received: by 10.36.9.18 with SMTP id 18mr995223nzi; Sun, 08 May 2005 11:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.12 with HTTP; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 11:32:25 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j48IWUlk023822 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] studying 17th century bodices X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Patts from real garments in fabulous collections: Norah Waugh, The Cut of Women's Clothes --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com > Can anyone suggest other sources for studying 17th century (English > and European, or N. American) ladies' bodices than the following. I > have an extensive collection of general books such as Boucher, Tilke, > James Laver,and others (senior moment as I cannot remember the name of > the big maroon one! - yay Millia Davenport.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 14:40:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48Ierfb026024 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:40:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48IaEYs026763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 12:36:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IaD6v026454; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:36:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48IaBj9026427 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 12:36:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A7F44012B for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 75A463948; Sun, 8 May 2005 11:36:10 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 11:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.135] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCflwaAAZpVwEAAAAB,b152cc64c2aae1d75a35941e33c0d0e3 Message-Id: <20050508183610.75A463948@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just went through my copy of the Bayeux Tapest book and it looks more like tunics split for horseback riding over hose than pants. There is trim that goes down the front and around the bottom of many of them that would appear rather strange on pants, but is often done on split garments. None of them goes below the knee either. I am in SCA and I wouldn't use that as documentation for pants for that period, but then I am way too fussy about my research. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Suzi Clarke wrote: From: Suzi Clarke Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 19:15:14 +0100 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent At 14:10 08/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Jean Waddie wrote: > >>I have to say I just saw it and I was very impressed. Some things were >>not accurate for the 1180s, and I suspect hoping for hose instead of >>trousers is a lost cause > >Yeah, sigh. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, though. > >Hey, just as a sanity check, folks -- does anyone know of any evidence of >trousers for men in England in the 1200s? I'm having this online >argument, see, and someone thinks I'm insane, but I'm fairly sure they >didn't have them. > >(Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a >public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. We >have to have authentic documentation for everything...") > >-- Not quite late enough I know, but some people seem to think that the "Bayeux Tapestry" shows Norman knights and foot soldiers in trousers. I don't have the reference unfortunately, but looked at some pictures and thought they could be right. Considering the tapestry was woven at the end of the 11th century, they *could* have spilled into the 12th? What about the book on Anglo Saxon clothing by ??Gail ....Crocker? - sorry, early medieval is not my thing. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 15:06:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48J6QDJ026198 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:06:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48J5cYs028814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 13:05:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48J5ZCn047030; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:05:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j48J5UGA046890 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2005 19:05:24 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050508200251.014d74c0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 20:03:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] studying 17th century bodices In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:32 08/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Patts from real garments in fabulous collections: >Norah Waugh, The Cut of Women's Clothes >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com > > > Can anyone suggest other sources for studying 17th century (English > > and European, or N. American) ladies' bodices than the following. I > > have an extensive collection of general books such as Boucher, Tilke, > > James Laver,and others (senior moment as I cannot remember the name of > > the big maroon one! - yay Millia Davenport.) Thanks but I thought I mentioned that I had a copy of this book, plus Arnold and Hunnisett. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 15:07:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48J7M6F026203 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:07:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48J6qYs028943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 13:06:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48J6qmS047864; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:06:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j48J6n6f047749 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2005 19:06:44 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050508200335.015e5890@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 20:04:16 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent In-Reply-To: <200505081427.39557.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050508191124.014d7980@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050508191124.014d7980@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:27 08/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >On Sunday 08 May 2005 2:15 pm, Suzi Clarke wrote: >[snip] > > > What about the book on Anglo Saxon clothing by ??Gail ....Crocker? - sorry, > > early medieval is not my thing. > >Dress in Anglo-Saxon England by Dr. Gale Owen-Crocker is what you're thinking >of. >-- >Cathy Raymond Thank you for jogging my memory - not my period as I said. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 15:36:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48JaqV1026366 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:36:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48JaJYs001379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 13:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48JaHaP067264; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:36:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48JaFIs067239 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:36:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DUrZW-00004M-7U for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 May 2005 19:36:14 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:34:36 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent References: <20050508183610.75A463948@sitemail.everyone.net> In-Reply-To: <20050508183610.75A463948@sitemail.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<7d4N+Z0X4zNHYE4twFmTW2YGE0>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some of them do look rather like shortie romper suits, but they are always the same colour top and legs, so they couldn't be trousers, ie something that only comes up to the waist. I think it would be fair to say all authoritative opinion considers them to be representing front-and-back split tunics and mailshirts. But wouldn't it be great to turn up to an event in your romper suit? ;-) The answer for Cynthia - it's impossible to prove a negative, she has to show her positive sources. Jean Lalah wrote >I just went through my copy of the Bayeux Tapest book and it looks more >like tunics split for horseback riding over hose than pants. There is >trim that goes down the front and around the bottom of many of them >that would appear rather strange on pants, but is often done on split >garments. None of them goes below the knee either. I am in SCA and I >wouldn't use that as documentation for pants for that period, but then >I am way too fussy about my research. > >Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender > > >--- Suzi Clarke wrote: > >From: Suzi Clarke >Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 19:15:14 +0100 >To: Historical Costume >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent > >At 14:10 08/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >>Jean Waddie wrote: >> >>>I have to say I just saw it and I was very impressed. Some things were >>>not accurate for the 1180s, and I suspect hoping for hose instead of >>>trousers is a lost cause >> >>Yeah, sigh. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, though. >> >>Hey, just as a sanity check, folks -- does anyone know of any evidence of >>trousers for men in England in the 1200s? I'm having this online >>argument, see, and someone thinks I'm insane, but I'm fairly sure they >>didn't have them. >> >>(Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a >>public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. We >>have to have authentic documentation for everything...") >> >>-- > > >Not quite late enough I know, but some people seem to think that the >"Bayeux Tapestry" shows Norman knights and foot soldiers in trousers. I >don't have the reference unfortunately, but looked at some pictures and >thought they could be right. Considering the tapestry was woven at the end >of the 11th century, they *could* have spilled into the 12th? > >What about the book on Anglo Saxon clothing by ??Gail ....Crocker? - sorry, >early medieval is not my thing. > >Suzi > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > >_____________________________________________________________ >Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg > >Netscape. Just the Net You Need. >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 15:39:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48Jdn6a026400 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:39:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48Jd9Ys001503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 13:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48Jd9eE069141; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao03.cox.net (lakermmtao03.cox.net [68.230.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48Jd60X069064 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 13:39:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.10.139.124]) by lakermmtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050508193859.ZKQX18229.lakermmtao03.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:38:59 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 15:48:44 -0400 Message-ID: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <427E5601.9050601@thibault.org> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j48Jd60X069064 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi~! I don't know of any hard evidence for pants in England in the 12th century. We do know that some Viking cultures had pants (Thorsbjerg, for example) but we aren't even sure about a lot of details there, either, and that doesn't account for _England_ -or- the 12th century. As was mentioned, "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England" is an excellent place to start researching. While the Bayeaux is a wonderful piece of history, and much can be gleaned from it, it really isn't the best source to use for exact documentation, IMHO. It's wonderful to use as a starting point which leads to further sources, or to use as part of a more thorough set of research support documents. Cynthia, since your debate partner is convinced they did in fact have pants in England in the 12th century, wouldn't it be incumbent upon them to provide the documentation necessary to support their claim? In other words, tell them to put up or shut up! Scads of folks would be delighted to see it, including me! ;o) Now, its entirely possible that some of the more rural peoples continued to wear pants instead of switching to the more Normanish hosen and braies, but we can't really be sure of that, so we must go with what we know, or at least what we know the most about. FWIW, "Woven into the Earth" which documents the Greenland finds has some 13th century clothing. They didn't find any pants there, but they did find lots of hosen. Again, it isn't England, but it's something. Pax, ::Linda:: -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:10 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Hey, just as a sanity check, folks -- does anyone know of any evidence of trousers for men in England in the 1200s? I'm having this online argument, see, and someone thinks I'm insane, but I'm fairly sure they didn't have them. (Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. We have to have authentic documentation for everything...") _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 16:18:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48KIO0R026588 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 16:18:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48KHjYs004037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 14:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48KHgv1094669; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:17:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48KHd89094632 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:17:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net ([192.168.167.42]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DUsDa-00023J-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 May 2005 16:17:38 -0400 Message-ID: <27828833.1115583458752.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 16:17:38 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You want Ben Nye, for theatrical makeup. They have a full range, including the metallics you want. I'm looking at an old catalog right now and it doesn't have a website--if I go looking for a website I'll have to reload my e-mail program, which alas takes FOREVER.... Bob Kelley is another venerable stage-makeup company. Kryolan is a somewhat newer company. I'll leave it up to you to do a search for their addresses. Ben Nye is located in L.A.; Kryolan is in San Francisco I think. Bob Kelley is probably in California too. Bob Kelley makeup is the one that shows up most predictably in costume stores. Good luck. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: Lalah Sent: May 8, 2005 10:00 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Have you considered using lipstick for the eyeshadow and gold eyeshadow for the lipstick? Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 20:34:08 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup On Saturday 07 May 2005 6:33 pm, Dawn wrote: > Morning, > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for unusual > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've already been > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the mainstream makeup > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner from > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of things anymore > (around here anyway). > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? There's got to be someplace on the Internet you can buy these things, and more... -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 16:48:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48KmkiW026727 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 16:48:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48KlfYs006696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 14:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48Kleo0015118; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:47:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48KlaV4015069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 14:47:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j48KeImT027486 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 16:40:18 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 08 May 2005 16:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <427E7AE5.9020907@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 16:47:33 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent References: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Linda Rice wrote: > Cynthia, since your debate partner is convinced they did in fact have pants in England in the 12th > century, wouldn't it be incumbent upon them to provide the documentation necessary to support their > claim? Yep. That's what I told ... him, I think. I think he's wedded to the idea of being able to wear pants, but hasn't actually seen any documentation. He's kind of defensive. It started because of a little potentially-hoax piece going around about testing beer in the 1200s -- those who are curious can go read the genesis and the various comments; the site covers hoaxes of all sorts, not just medieval ones. http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/3072/ -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent A multimillion-dollar ad campaign blames Democrats for the fact that "courtrooms sit empty." In fact, there are now half as many judicial vacancies as when Bush took office. And of the 46 federal judgeships that remain vacant, Bush has named only 16 replacements. -- Factcheck.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 17:38:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48Lc0gZ027247 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 17:38:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48La1Ys009976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 15:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48LZrEl047287; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:35:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48LZoFJ047206 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 15:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1e8.3ad091a0 (4560) for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 17:35:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <1e8.3ad091a0.2fafe02d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 17:35:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - general To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have had Nige disecting it for the last day (he saw it yesterday afternoon - I was working). Of course he's only into th emilitary stuff, but he said the only things wrong (apart from the trousers issue) were more to do with dating than just out and out inventions. Debs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 19:12:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j48NC59e028132 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 19:12:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j48NBHYs017545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 17:11:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j48NBCfn010977; Sun, 8 May 2005 17:11:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j48NBAYs010883 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 17:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.29 with login) by smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 May 2005 23:11:04 -0000 Message-ID: <006501c55423$35044cf0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1e8.3ad091a0.2fafe02d@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - general Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 19:11:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Of course he's only into th emilitary stuff, but he said the only things > wrong (apart from the trousers issue) were more to do with dating than just out > and out inventions. That's the general impression I got as well. I thought the Norman-style helmets with the nasals perhaps slightly old-fashioned for 1184, but not badly off, and the mail was nice (no knitted stuff visible, although someone on another list pointed out that the mail leggings might have been knitted--although you barely see them). The overall look with the surcotes, shields, etc. was quite nice. The archers looked more 14th century to me--not so much because of their helmets (again, on another list, apparently those date to as far back as the 13th century) but because of their short arming coats. The main character spends a lot of time in a shirt that is probably a bit on the short side for the period. The Saracen stuff, in general, was drooly. Beautiful armor, fabulous banners, wonderful siege engines. Have no idea how period, but very lovely to look at. You can throw the Princess' clothing into this same category. Again, absolutely no idea whether that was at all period for an upper-class Middle Eastern woman (or whether a woman of European descent would have *always* "gone native"--I know they did sometimes...) but the overall look was beautiful. So were some of the interiors of the castles. I also enjoyed the movie--although I'm eager to see Ridley Scott's director's cut. There were some parts that were a little too jumpy--for instance, we see very little of Godfrey's (the main character's father) travelling companions--just enough to pique our interest (there's a large man with longish hair and a German accent, and a Saracen, among others) before the movie moves on and focuses mainly on other things (I won't tell how; that would be a spoiler). I'm hoping the longer version fleshes out some of this. I have to agree--this is one of the better medieval movies I've seen in a long time, and I don't think the clothing introduced any egregious errors such as late 13th century kilts or blue face paint :-) Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 21:56:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j491uLPF028915 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 21:56:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j491tXYs000268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 19:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j491tPEn016689; Sun, 8 May 2005 19:55:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j491tMle016616 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 19:55:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IG70082Y99ZWG@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 May 2005 21:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 21:54:36 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent In-reply-to: <427E5601.9050601@thibault.org> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <427EC2DC.9060308@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> <427E5601.9050601@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO He-he-he is the only comment my husband and i could make. J Schueller p.s. we are both in the sca maybe this poerson is not in the same sca as we are? Cynthia Virtue wrote: > (Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a > public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd > know. We have to have authentic documentation for everything...") > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 8 22:42:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j492gpE7029221 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 22:42:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j492gHYs004025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 20:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j492gFB1046874; Sun, 8 May 2005 20:42:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j492gBZ6046727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 20:42:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49404nx028447 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 00:00:06 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 22:42:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505082242.01013.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 08 May 2005 3:48 pm, Linda Rice wrote: > Hi~! > > I don't know of any hard evidence for pants in England in the 12th century. > We do know that some Viking cultures had pants (Thorsbjerg, for example) The Thorsbjerg trousers are way pre-Viking; they are believed to date back to the third or fourth century A.D. (the Viking period is, roughly, 8th through 10th c A.D.). You can see a scan of a picture of them here (the software may ask you for a login; just hitting the "login in as a guest" button will let you see the discussion thread, with the picture: http://slumberland.org/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=582 > but we aren't even sure about a lot of details there, either, Other than what we can glean from examining the surviving, mostly-intact garment itself, that is. The Thorsjberg trousers (I'm never sure of the spelling so I see no reason not to use yours) appear to be very close-fitting footed trousers. We know that because one of the fully-enclosed feet survives. They also have very obvious belt loops. (This is the fact that impressed my husband, when I showed him the picture; he thought they looked a lot like modern jeans. However, they have no pockets, and no fly, unlike jeans of today). If you have access to SCA Compleat Anachronist #103, the author makes an interesting case for the proposition that the early Irish often wore close fitting trousers like the Thorsjberg trousers. > and that > doesn't account for _England_ -or- the 12th century. True. > As was mentioned, > "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England" is an excellent place to start researching. > While the Bayeaux is a wonderful piece of history, and much can be gleaned > from it, it really isn't the best source to use for exact documentation, > IMHO. It's wonderful to use as a starting point which leads to further > sources, or to use as part of a more thorough set of research support > documents. Yes. "Dress in Anglo-Saxon England goes on at some length about the difficulty of documenting costume, especially men's costume, for this period. The 25-word or less summary: Documentation is difficult because we don't have archaelogical remains from England for this period, and the art of the period is less representational than a costume historian might like.... > Cynthia, since your debate partner is convinced they did in fact have pants > in England in the 12th century, wouldn't it be incumbent upon them to > provide the documentation necessary to support their claim? In other words, > tell them to put up or shut up! Scads of folks would be delighted to see > it, including me! ;o) Now, its entirely possible that some of the more > rural peoples continued to wear pants instead of switching to the more > Normanish hosen and braies, but we can't really be sure of that, so we must > go with what we know, or at least what we know the most about. > > FWIW, "Woven into the Earth" which documents the Greenland finds has some > 13th century clothing. They didn't find any pants there, but they did find > lots of hosen. Again, it isn't England, but it's something. True. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 00:25:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j494PpJb030001 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 00:25:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j494PDYs011520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 8 May 2005 22:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j494P9EL011551; Sun, 8 May 2005 22:25:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j494P7Kl011529 for ; Sun, 8 May 2005 22:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l237j.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.12.243] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DUzpL-0005Pg-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 08 May 2005 21:25:07 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050508224238.0287adf8@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 22:47:06 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200505030038.j430c5Dw060931@net.indra.com> References: <200505030038.j430c5Dw060931@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trip X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:38 PM 5/2/2005, you wrote: Sorry I'm writing this a week late - just wading thru all the digests after our trip to Costume Con!! >Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:15:53 -0500 >From: "E House" >Subject: [h-cost] fabric stores & etc in WY, MT, ID > >The husband and I are planning a nice rambling trip all over Wyoming, >Montana, and Idaho (and driving through NW Missouri and Nebraska to get >there). We might dip into Washington briefly, but we wouldn't be going far >enough west to hit the Pendleton outlets. There is a Pendleton outlet in Nebraska City, NE., if you're passing thru there. It's not on the main downtown business street, but a block or two off it. Lots of people go there, so just ask a local, they can direct you. I personally have not been there (and live just 45 miles away, go figure!!) E-mail me privately if you have more questions. Sandy >Are there any other fabric stores in that part of the country that are >worth visiting? I'm particularly in the market for wool, linen, or silk >damasks and brocades, but I certainly >wouldn't pass up nicely priced basics such as tropical weight worsteds or >gobs of linens. > >-E House "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 06:38:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49AcPqb032298 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 06:38:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49AZlYs006838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 04:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49AZcPH052361; Mon, 9 May 2005 04:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49AZX04052252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 04:35:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D0BEDBCC4 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 06:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourzpvq75jcr6 (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 42219DBC22 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 06:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016e01c55482$c3f174b0$c2b6eb40@yourzpvq75jcr6> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> <427E7AE5.9020907@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 06:35:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent > > Yep. That's what I told ... him, I think. I think he's wedded to the > idea of being able to wear pants, but hasn't actually seen any > documentation. He's kind of defensive. Yeah, just a leetle bit! > > It started because of a little potentially-hoax piece going around about > testing beer in the 1200s -- those who are curious can go read the genesis > and the various comments; the site covers hoaxes of all sorts, not just > medieval ones. > > http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/3072/ That's a page worth bookmarking. Could be fun reading! Two more points--first of all, I think the "beer test" is more than like a load of hooey. And "I'm in teh SCA, we have to have authentic documentation for everything"--does he belong to a different SCA? Cause I don't recall being told I HAD to have documentation for anything. Dianne > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > A multimillion-dollar ad campaign blames Democrats for the fact that > "courtrooms sit empty." In fact, there are now half as many judicial > vacancies as when Bush took office. And of the 46 federal judgeships that > remain vacant, Bush has named only 16 replacements. -- Factcheck.org > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 07:21:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49BLT6A000937 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:21:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49BKpYs010849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 05:20:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49BKomL080909; Mon, 9 May 2005 05:20:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49BKkga080819 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 05:20:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A78828AE0038; Mon, 09 May 2005 07:20:40 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.107 ([209.131.81.107] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 9 May 05 11:20:37 -0000 Message-ID: <003601c55489$6708a640$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050508140044.8565D3939@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 07:22:34 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dermatologically speaking. I don't think that this would be a good idea! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lalah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup > Have you considered using lipstick for the eyeshadow and gold > eyeshadow for the lipstick? > > Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender > --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > From: Catherine Olanich Raymond > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 20:34:08 -0400 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup > On Saturday 07 May 2005 6:33 pm, Dawn wrote: > > Morning, > > > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for > unusual > > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've > already been > > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the > mainstream makeup > > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner > from > > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of > things anymore > > (around here anyway). > > > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold > lipstick. What I > > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear > lipgloss. I need > > opaque in-your-face color. > > > > Any suggestions? > There's got to be someplace on the Internet you can buy these > things, and > more... > -- > Cathy Raymond > "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 07:40:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49Bej89001396 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:40:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49BdqYs012108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 05:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Bdljl093377; Mon, 9 May 2005 05:39:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Bd5NQ093047 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 05:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j49Bcvcl009602 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050509073057.01b8bd50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 07:38:57 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <427E5601.9050601@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >(Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a >public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. >We have to have authentic documentation for everything...") ROFL.... ROFL.... Oh thank you! I needed a good laugh. Great way to start the week. Now before all the SCA people get their knickers in a twist... I also participate in the SCA, so I do know what of I speak. I think your biggest problem is the person, and not that they are in the SCA. Linda has hit the nail on the head when she suggested that the person you are debating with actually demonstrate where they got this information. We'd all like to take a look at it and be conviced that trousers/pants were indeed a viable option. But I have a sneaky suspicion that no such information will be forthcoming. Bridgette Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 08:25:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49CPUGs001927 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:25:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49COkYs015466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 06:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49COicZ022382; Mon, 9 May 2005 06:24:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49COTZZ022241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 06:24:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j49CH9mT000696 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:17:09 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 09 May 2005 08:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <427F567B.1040909@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 08:24:27 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent References: <427E5601.9050601@thibault.org> <5.2.1.1.2.20050509073057.01b8bd50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050509073057.01b8bd50@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO M Stewart wrote: >> (Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a >> public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. >> We have to have authentic documentation for everything...") > Now before all the SCA people get their knickers in a twist... I also > participate in the SCA, so I do know what of I speak. Me, too. I've been doing it since... lordy, it's going to be 22 years this fall. That's why I'm so annoyed/amused that the person is alleging high standards. *Individuals* in the SCA may have higher standards (like me, and others on this list) but overall, there isn't much in the way of standards at all. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent A multimillion-dollar ad campaign blames Democrats for the fact that "courtrooms sit empty." In fact, there are now half as many judicial vacancies as when Bush took office. And of the 46 federal judgeships that remain vacant, Bush has named only 16 replacements. -- Factcheck.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 09:16:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49DGcFL002526 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:16:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49DFtYs024552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 07:15:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49DFlSq058913; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:15:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49DFibN058813 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:15:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 09 May 2005 08:15:38 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 08:15:30 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: looking for makeup X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? > Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you tried KC Costume? They have a lot of theatrical makeup as well as costumes & props. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 09:41:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49DfltK002732 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:41:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49DePYs000525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 07:40:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49DeMX5077706; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:40:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49DeK5W077632 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 02BD9A06B7; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:40:19 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.126.178.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.126.178]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 02712A057A for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:39:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <04fd01c5549c$be4017f0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505030038.j430c5Dw060931@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20050508224238.0287adf8@pop.radiks.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Trip Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:35:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre & Sandy Pettinger" > There is a Pendleton outlet in Nebraska City, NE., if you're passing thru > there. It's not on the main downtown business street, but a block or two > off it. Lots of people go there, so just ask a local, they can direct > you. I personally have not been there (and live just 45 miles away, go > figure!!) E-mail me privately if you have more questions. Thanks, Sandy, and others who replied! I had a feeling there might not be much out there (and considering I hope to move to WY before too long, I sniffle in anticipation)--I'm really glad to find out there's at least SOMETHING! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 09:57:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49DvuB1002890 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:57:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49DvMYs003653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 07:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49DvL4d090771; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:57:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49DvHi6090705 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 07:57:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.168] (pm5-168.eos.net [205.133.149.168]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j49DvDdC014746 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:57:14 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 09:49:54 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505072347.j47NlH5K006033@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 296 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Diana wrote: > Not for study but for pure costuming drool-ability....you must see Queen > Margot. It is french with english subtitles. The dresses in the movie > are to die for! Just ignore the ones that are fetish/raunchy. But the > ones that are supposed to be historical are beautiful. As I remember it, the men's costumes were very accurate. The women's, though, were beautiful but not particularly accurate. They were all versions of the same dress, for one thing, and none of the women wore shifts. I think that was a decision made on purpose, to show that the court was debauched, not an oversight. Has anyone read the book? It's by Victor Hugo, I think. Or Alexandre Dumas. One of those two. I wondered if it was as randy as the movie. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 10:30:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49EUHgg003146 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 10:30:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49ETMYs011642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 08:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49ETHp3017216; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j49ETBYj017019 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:29:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 14:29:04 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 15:25:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: References: <200505072347.j47NlH5K006033@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO O.K. As we don't have either, please could I have a *brief* resume of the differences between these? We have "Events" where groups of people dress and behave in as authentic a way as possible, fight battles (sometimes for a change the "wrong* side wins, but the public aren't supposed to see those!) live in tents. Many of them use hand woven fabrics, hand dyed and hand sewn. Others use machines where hidden, hand sewn where not. Some groups strive for total accuracy, some do not, or so I understand. There are both private events, and ones to which the public are admitted. Then there are "room guardians", costumed interpreters etc., who are similar to what I understand your "docents" are - not a word we use at all. These always work to the public, as far as I can judge. Then there are dancers, who also have varying stages of accuracy. Some involve the public in dancing, some simply give performances. And then there is LARP (Live action role play) which can be for real or totally fantasy. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 10:51:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49Epag5003284 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 10:51:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49EosYs015065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 08:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49EoorM038195; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:50:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49EoaHW037851 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:50:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 09 May 2005 09:50:31 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 09:49:57 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: SCA v Renfaire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO O.K. As we don't have either, please could I have a *brief* resume of the differences between these? And then there is LARP (Live action role play) which can be for real or totally fantasy. Suzi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Brief? I'll try :). Both like history, SCA covers a wider range (usually 600-1600), most but not all renfaires are 16th C. Renfaire participants are doing this because they enjoy it but as performers at a rennfaire they are there primarily to entertain others. They are usually more active during the run of their local faire but also go to other faires, sometimes in organized groups. Costuming depends on what their role or interest is that year. SCA participants are doing this because they enjoy it and primarily to entertain themselves. They have events almost every weekend, some with themes. You can participate individually or as part of a group both (informally or more formally as a household). Your costuming usually depends on your choice of personna, or in my case, I timetravel with my wardrobe, ie; whatever era I am interested in researching right now :). FYI: some renfaires have guilds that provide most of the costumed performers. Others, like my local faire, have auditions and cast all their performers new each year. There are many returning street characters, and the court usually stays pretty much the same for several years in a row, but it is all directed by the office. How's that :)? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 11:04:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49F4WCL003405 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 11:04:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49F3YYs016523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 09:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49F3WJp049816; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49F3SGq049734 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:03:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A124401C4 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:03:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 761CF3964; Mon, 9 May 2005 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.135] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCf3u1AAQOqQEAAAAB,f3a17fc2f2eb57aaeb0a13eed3513b17 Message-Id: <20050509150317.761CF3964@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think we have all missed something here. The guy said he has to have authentic documentation for everything. (Never mind that is a lot of hooey unless you are going for an A & S comp.) Since he said that, ask him to show it to you. Inquiring minds want to know. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent M Stewart wrote: >> (Of course my biggest problem with the argument is that it's a >> public/mundane forum and the person has said "I'm in the SCA, I'd know. >> We have to have authentic documentation for everything...") > _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 11:28:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49FSudM003599 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 11:28:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49FSGYs019310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 09:28:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49FS0Gt072870; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from msa1-mx.centurytel.net (msa1-mx.centurytel.net [209.142.136.125]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49FRsmH072746 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:27:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from musicthea@upstagereview.org) Received: from SWIGART (pppoe-66-112-70-165.rb2.lax.centurytel.net [66.112.70.165]) by msa1-mx.centurytel.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49FRbw2004330 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 10:27:46 -0500 From: "Laurie Swigart" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] looking for makeup Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 10:27:38 -0500 Organization: Upstage Review Theatre Company Message-ID: <002401c554ab$a5672bb0$0987fea9@SWIGART> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <003601c55489$6708a640$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.bennye.com/ http://www.graftobian.com/index5.htm http://www.mehron.com/ -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 6:23 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup Dermatologically speaking. I don't think that this would be a good idea! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lalah" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup > Have you considered using lipstick for the eyeshadow and gold > eyeshadow for the lipstick? > > Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender > --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > From: Catherine Olanich Raymond > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 20:34:08 -0400 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup > On Saturday 07 May 2005 6:33 pm, Dawn wrote: > > Morning, > > > > I hoping some of you theatre people can help with sources for > unusual > > makeup colors. I need red eyeshadow and gold lipstick. I've > already been > > through the chain pharmacies and beauty supply and the > mainstream makeup > > lines just don't have these items. I did get a red eyeliner > from > > Wet-n-Wild, but they just don't carry the "wild" end of > things anymore > > (around here anyway). > > > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold > lipstick. What I > > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear > lipgloss. I need > > opaque in-your-face color. > > > > Any suggestions? > There's got to be someplace on the Internet you can buy these > things, and more... > -- > Cathy Raymond > "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/emreg > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 13:47:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49HlaIE005922 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:47:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49HkEYs008715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 11:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Hk30W006188; Mon, 9 May 2005 11:46:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Hjx1h006095 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 11:46:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3883C51E for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:45:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C5028C5D2 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:45:58 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: looking for makeup Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 12:46:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't been following this but one person I know (and its a little expensive) did two things. Both required a goldish base lipstick that was "sticky" and either stuck gold leaf to the lipstick or dusted it with edible gold powder. De -----Original Message----- > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I need > opaque in-your-face color. > > Any suggestions? > Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you tried KC Costume? They have a lot of theatrical makeup as well as costumes & props. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 14:08:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49I8Zj9006087 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:08:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49I8FYs012013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 12:08:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49I8Esd028636; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49I89t9028568 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:08:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00954 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:08:08 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 13:08:04 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Redressing dolls Thread-Index: AcVUpoMlqDJ7fM2fQn+edXnKQiAXoAAGXbDw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j49I89t9028568 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Redressing dolls X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those listmembers who like to redress Barbie dolls in historic costumes for kids, collectors, themselves, or for the Salvation Army's Dress-a-Doll projects(like me) and are looking for paler-skinned vinyl dolls now have a couple of options besides yard and second-hand stores. Some of the City Style Barbies sold at KayBee Toys and Walgreens have paler-toned vinyl and or solid-color hair in a natural tone. I scored a City Style Barbie for $3.50 at my local Walgreens with pale skin and center-parted brown hair. Prices vary at various Walgreens depending on how many they have in stock. Even the blue to pink-toned eyeshadow is not too garish, although a giveaway to historical accuracy unless one is redressing doll in the Yardley 'Blooming Colors" swinging '60's era. Well, it beats putting a Elizabethan or 1890's gown on a very-well tanned basic Barbie dressed for the beach. There are also the Fashion Fever Barbies, especially Drew and Teresa if you are willing to pay more and plow through some really wild hair colors and sometimes vivid makeup screening. Drew is a redhead(or at least when her hair isn't blue)and always seems cast in a paler vinyl, as is Teresa(who started out Hispanic and went from dark brunette to honey blond in the last year). Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 14:18:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49II6Sc006161 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49IGJYs013697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 12:16:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IGHq2037086; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:16:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IG7FA036891 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BE23C1BA for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:16:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 83D92C5FF for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:16:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 13:16:19 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds like you have Living History reinactors. They expect 100% accuracy in all aspects of what they are recreating. Nothing mundane is allowed to be seen by the public when reenacting. Clothing MUST be made of materials know to have been used during the time period reenacting. Keeper of the wardrobe, and similar titles,etc., have only a little similarity to the states "docents". A "Keeper" is expected to know everything there is about fabrics, sewing technique, clothing pieces and their names, colors, and sometime even the regional style differences. All this and probably more so that they may assist their fellow LHers first so that it is the fellow LHer that informs the public about that aspect of the reenactment. Docents I believe learn something so that they can pass it on to the public. And though I admire the LHers drive for excellence, I prefer the less pressured SCA. De -----Original Message----- O.K. As we don't have either, please could I have a *brief* resume of the differences between these? We have "Events" where groups of people dress and behave in as authentic a way as possible, fight battles (sometimes for a change the "wrong* side wins, but the public aren't supposed to see those!) live in tents. Many of them use hand woven fabrics, hand dyed and hand sewn. Others use machines where hidden, hand sewn where not. Some groups strive for total accuracy, some do not, or so I understand. There are both private events, and ones to which the public are admitted. Then there are "room guardians", costumed interpreters etc., who are similar to what I understand your "docents" are - not a word we use at all. These always work to the public, as far as I can judge. Then there are dancers, who also have varying stages of accuracy. Some involve the public in dancing, some simply give performances. And then there is LARP (Live action role play) which can be for real or totally fantasy. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 14:40:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49IeBrB006428 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:40:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49IdQYs017549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 12:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IdOub059041; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:39:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49BAb4w075422 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 05:10:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A52628890038; Mon, 09 May 2005 07:10:30 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.107 ([209.131.81.107] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 9 May 05 11:10:28 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c55487$fbac0500$6b5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <427D4459.40604@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 07:12:25 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Yankee Potroast, maybe, but not the Boiled dinner. Both as a matter of fact, were designed to be one pot meals. The first is made with beef and the second with fresh ham on the bone. And these became popular with immigrant families as a way to get a whole meal with little meat. Not quite the type to bother about refraining from cooking on the Sabbath. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1950s clothing term > > > > > The first part sounds more like they're talking about food - a boiled might > > be short for "a boiled dinner" - > > > > > >> That does seem to make more sense from the context. I believe that the "New > >> England boiled dinner" was sometimes made on Saturday, to eat cold on > >> Sunday, so one did not violate the Sabbath by cooking. > > > > That was my first thought, too, except that I've *never* heard it > refered to like that. Even my grandparents didn't call it that. > > Then there's the term "collation", which is a light meal, something a > boiled dinner certainly is not. > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 14:46:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49Ik2St006477 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49IiZYs018369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 12:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IiY0C063683; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:44:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49FJ8hK064809 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:19:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDDE3BC7D for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 10:18:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <427F7F55.5020804@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 10:18:45 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire References: <200505072347.j47NlH5K006033@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > > O.K. As we don't have either, please could I have a *brief* resume of > the differences between these? Well now, in my experience both groups have a lot of overlap, but it's the professed purpose which sets them apart. The SCA purports to be a sort of historical re-enactment society, with a broad time period (~1000 ad to ~1600 ad). There are membership 'requirements' for holding office, but not for participation in general. Events are completely managed by society members (paid or not) and authenticity varies depending on the group. The only requirements are "an attempt" at historical clothing. There's no enforcement, so you're as likely to see fairy wings and vampire teeth as anything else. While the public is not excluded from events, they're usually not advertised to either, they tend to be club activities, not shows. Renaissance faires are commercial ventures where a small 'village' is built, admission is charged, and shopkeepers (who usually lease their space) offer visitors a variety of crafts for sale against the backdrop of a late medieval or renaissance period festival (usually 16th cent. English). Paid (sometimes) actors entertain the crowds as jousters, jugglers, dancers, etc. Much beer is sold. The general public pays the admission fee and dresses in costume if they like when they attend, but it's not required. Authenticity varies depending on the fair management and the standards of the participants (paid actors and general public alike). The only costume requirements are those set for the fair employees, the public can wear anything, and does. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 14:46:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49Ik67t006480 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:46:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49IjOYs018537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 12:45:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IjOGW064500; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f5.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49GM8L5025356 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 10:22:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 9 May 2005 09:21:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 09 May 2005 16:21:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050421202604.014d0458@127.0.0.1> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French costume movies Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 16:21:58 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 May 2005 16:21:59.0044 (UTC) FILETIME=[397F2440:01C554B3] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Gerard Depardieu in "Cyrano de Bergerac" - bravura performance - made me >cry, and my French is not brilliant!! If you're going along those lines, you might also want to try "Ridicule". It's not my period but the costumes seemed pretty good. There's also "Beaumarchais l'Insolent", but it's been too long since I saw it and I don't remember if the costumes were any good - the movie's good, though! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 14:49:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49In6s6006503 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:49:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49ImHYs018941 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 12:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IlmU1066701; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IDg5c034355 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from [192.168.167.41] (helo=wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DVClB-0001d0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 09 May 2005 14:13:41 -0400 Message-ID: <28844588.1115662421912.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 11:13:41 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: SCA v Renfaire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi wrote: >O.K. As we don't have either, please could I have a *brief* resume of the >differences between these? You'll get lots of opinions on this one :) I've done both for more than ten years, and here's how I'd summarize it. I think there are two major differences: (1) SCA events are for group members, entertaining and educating themselves. Renaissance Faires are presentations for the public. (2) Different time period: SCA is much broader, running more or less from the Romans to the Renaissance. Renaissance Faires tend to be much more focused and are almost always somewhere in the 16th century. Other differences: - SCA runs all year round, Renaissance Faires are generally presented for one to eight successive weekends most commonly in the summer. - SCA has lots of local chapters that meet year round, and not everyone active in the chapters goes to events; Renaissance Faire affiliated groups generally only get together at the Faire (or its workshops), though the same people do return year after year. - In the SCA, we are modern people doing medieval stuff; at Renaissance Faire everyone pretends to be a 16th-century person (but only when the Faire is "open" and customers are present, not after closing hours). - There are a lot more people in the SCA whose focus is on "making things" (manuscripts, furniture, clothing, books) while more people in Renaissance Faire concentrate on the performing arts (music, dance, drama). You will notice that I haven't said anything about authenticity here. That's because both groups are extremely variable. Both have individuals and "guilds" or other small groups that try to do things as authentically as possible, and both have people doing what's essentially history-flavored fantasy of their own invention. Different regional groups (SCA) or faires often have different "mixes" of the two. For instance, there are two major Renaissance Faires in northern California: one is probably the most historically oriented Renaissance Faire in the U.S. (but still far from completely authentic); the other frankly bills itself as "fantasy" oriented and has many more "elves", "damsels," "dragons" and so forth. There is often quite a bit of wrangling about whether SCA or RenFaire is "more authentic", and in my opinion it's an unanswerable question because both groups include such a wide variety of people. Generally the authenticity-oriented people in the SCA and the same at Faire get along just fine, once they figure out who each other are. In the same way, people who have other interests in common get along just fine between organizations. Problems sometimes arise when you try to compare people in one organization as a whole with those in the other, since both are so variable that it's hard to make _any_ generalizations stick. Both have produced some quite good individual costumers, and I think that the serious costumers in both have shared in the generally rising level of knowledge about what people in history actually wore. But I don't think you can generalize from that about what the costuming is like in either group as a whole. Hope this helps -- ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 15:00:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49J0CcF006579 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:00:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49IxfYs020798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 12:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49IxduH077775; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts16.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Ixbkb077723 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:59:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([64.231.205.129]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050509185936.PQRP27508.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:59:36 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509145156.00b669b0@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 14:59:20 -0400 To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume & Dressmaker Magazine? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was wondering if anyone knows about Costume & Dressmaker magazine. I found this web site and it appears to be something really interesting. http:// costumepress.websitesource.net I would like to purchase all back issues available from them but I seem to be having difficulty getting in touch. Does anyone know anything about them? Are they in fact, no longer? Any help would be very much appreciated. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 15:26:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49JQWfn006798 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:26:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49JQ3Ys024437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 13:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JQ1ZJ002343; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:26:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j49JPu1h002192 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:25:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 19:25:50 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509201355.015f1360@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 20:23:52 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:16 09/05/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Sounds like you have Living History reinactors. They expect 100% accuracy in >all aspects of what they are recreating. Nothing mundane is allowed to be >seen by the public when reenacting. Clothing MUST be made of materials know >to have been used during the time period reenacting. >Keeper of the wardrobe, and similar titles,etc., have only a little >similarity to the states "docents". >A "Keeper" is expected to know everything there is about fabrics, sewing >technique, clothing pieces and their names, colors, and sometime even the >regional style differences. All this and probably more so that they may >assist their fellow LHers first so that it is the fellow LHer that informs >the public about that aspect of the reenactment. Docents I believe learn >something so that they can pass it on to the public. >And though I admire the LHers drive for excellence, I prefer the less >pressured SCA. Yes, we do have Living History people, but I guess standards vary among those groups the same as anywhere else. I visit a medieval Faire in the summer, and the stall holders are (mostly) dressed in medieval to Tudor costumes, and mainly sell "authentic" goods, although some are not as "accurate" as others. It is great fun, and I always spend too much!! This one is very much open to the Members of the Public (MOP's). No, the "Keeper" as such, is unknown, I think, although there are ad hoc advisors in groups - basically, as far as I can judge, people who have done more research than anyone else. Costumed Interpreters, and "Room Guardians" are people who work usually as volunteers, in costume as authentic as possible, in "stately homes" and public buildings. They have their costumes made professionally - I do it, and Ninya Mikhaila used to do it for Hampton Court. I guess some make their own costumes, but I do not hear of them. Thanks to all of you who have given me definitions - quite fascinating, and not quite like anything I have been to. Debbie Lough may have - another poster from England. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 15:35:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49JZi2T007057 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49JYwYs025724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 13:34:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JYnQ2010019; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:34:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JXwgB009155 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050509193352015006tdafe>; Mon, 9 May 2005 19:33:53 +0000 Message-ID: <005601c554ce$141f02e0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509145156.00b669b0@pop8.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume & Dressmaker Magazine? Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 15:33:44 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OFF LIST Dawn, I wanted to write you off list. PLEASE,PLEASE do not send money to these people. They have a really bad reputation. They will take your money and not send the product. I know many, many people who have sent money to them and never received a thing over the years. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Luckham" To: Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] Costume & Dressmaker Magazine? >I was wondering if anyone knows about Costume & Dressmaker magazine. I >found this web site and it appears to be something really interesting. > > http:// > costumepress.websitesource.net > > I would like to purchase all back issues available from them but I seem to > be having difficulty getting in touch. Does anyone know anything about > them? Are they in fact, no longer? Any help would be very much > appreciated. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 15:49:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49JnXCo007315 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:49:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49JmQYs028166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 13:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JmGe1022220; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:48:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Jm2ae021951 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050509194756013004su3fe>; Mon, 9 May 2005 19:47:56 +0000 Message-ID: <006201c554d0$0b0dc630$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509145156.00b669b0@pop8.sympatico.ca> <005601c554ce$141f02e0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume & Dressmaker Magazine? Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 15:48:15 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am so sorry... I did not mean for that message to go across the list. Teach me for doing three things at one time. My apologies again. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 15:53:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49JrhYE007336 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:53:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49JpwYs028883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 13:51:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Jptgf025855; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:51:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Jph9V025595 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:51:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-54-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.54.47]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49JosXx015877 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:50:55 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050509120242.025e0d60@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 12:25:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire In-Reply-To: <427F7F55.5020804@reddawn.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> <200505072347.j47NlH5K006033@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>O.K. As we don't have either, please could I have a *brief* resume of the >>differences between these? > >Well now, in my experience both groups have a lot of overlap, but it's the >professed purpose which sets them apart. The SCA purports to be a sort of >historical re-enactment society, with a broad time period (~1000 ad to >~1600 ad). I wouldn't call the SCA a re-enactment society, but more of a history club with costumed gatherings. Most of SCA historical research is done on the arts and crafts within their broad time/geographical period, followed by re-creation of these arts or crafts pieces (or the creation of original pieces in the style of the older ones). Historical events themselves are not re-created. >Renaissance faires are commercial ventures where a small 'village' is >built, admission is charged, and shopkeepers (who usually lease their >space) offer visitors a variety of crafts for sale against the backdrop of >a late medieval or renaissance period festival (usually 16th cent. English). I'd call Ren. Faire more of a craft fair with historical entertainment, on stages as shows with actors (sometimes paid actors), or improvised in the streets by volunteer participants. Sometimes the paying public dresses up and 'plays' with the regular participants, with varying degrees of authenticity to the period of the Faire (everything from dead-on historical re-creations, to modern street clothes, to Klingons and winged faeries). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 15:57:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49Jvd4m007354 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49JuwYs029644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 13:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JudOA030491; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:56:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JuGlO030171 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:56:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so3013252wri for ; Mon, 09 May 2005 12:56:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ciBt0Tyre/trS++n8QZM2VnOLbZ90G39tSZPv1ZaXUsm3igRwpFtde8zlVGmUtzEwg/Uhsqy0Hdrc0E66lo3XHfMA8crc8HbhOp1vCAK2qiMw5xTgdClg50QPVh2YxDy9s70BtzsvvPIF1I2gKHTAwIH+Imm2cDe3JGvmF3JGfU= Received: by 10.54.39.58 with SMTP id m58mr2398wrm; Mon, 09 May 2005 12:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.21.32 with HTTP; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 14:55:30 -0500 From: Onaree Berard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <006201c554d0$0b0dc630$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509145156.00b669b0@pop8.sympatico.ca> <005601c554ce$141f02e0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <006201c554d0$0b0dc630$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j49JuGlO030171 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume & Dressmaker Magazine? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No need. You probably saved a lot of people from losing money because they didn't know. Once an URL is out there, people will look into it. Onaree On 5/9/05, Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am so sorry... I did not mean for that message to go across the list. > Teach me for doing three things at one time. > > My apologies again. > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 15:57:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49JvoRP007357 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49Jv0Ys029651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 13:57:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JuebU030511; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:56:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49JuNfi030221 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 13:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so3013357wri for ; Mon, 09 May 2005 12:56:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=j7ytcLfn8GScgFjIfvkA0uTLOf9OwuoplGGAXcc2zvFCvWNQ9GxRrbY4bZUlKbod+j2B526Qq9sIoXIrXG9Zo64r1XZX4iPp4RxttKTRSFA8Cxq6kmSxNVUZLDB+0IsQ4zMvIA2lI9xO9bJAR/41LZQun4e3QSPaffQmAOuDxyE= Received: by 10.54.44.40 with SMTP id r40mr2316wrr; Mon, 09 May 2005 12:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.21.32 with HTTP; Mon, 9 May 2005 12:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 14:55:35 -0500 From: Onaree Berard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509145156.00b669b0@pop8.sympatico.ca> <005601c554ce$141f02e0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <006201c554d0$0b0dc630$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j49JuNfi030221 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costume & Dressmaker Magazine? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 5/9/05, Onaree Berard wrote: > No need. You probably saved a lot of people from losing money because > they didn't know. > Once an URL is out there, people will look into it. > > Onaree > > On 5/9/05, Penny Ladnier wrote: > > I am so sorry... I did not mean for that message to go across the list. > > Teach me for doing three things at one time. > > > > My apologies again. > > > > Penny Ladnier, owner > > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 16:22:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49KMpgC007484 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 16:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49KLvYs003134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 14:21:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49KLD6j052352; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49KJsP1051017 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:20:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <200505092020500140085fode>; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:20:51 +0000 Message-ID: <008c01c554d4$a3b95800$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 16:20:44 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] YIPPEE! Parasols X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j49KMpgC007484 Status: RO This is why I goofed up and didn't send the other message privately.... I do have a good excuse. I was chatting on IM with our instructor Marna Jean (MJ) the same time I was sending out the message. MJ made parasols for the Legend of Zorro movie that is coming out in the autumn. I saw the trailer for the film on Entertainment Tonight last week. So I sent her a message and two of her parasols are in the trailer. You can see the trailer at http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/thelegendofzorro.html . You can see her beige parasol when Catherine Zeta Jones is walking down the street. A lady beside her on the left is holding MJ's off-white parasol. A couple of frames later, Catherine is talking with a little boy, and another lady is carrying another MJ parasol with fringe on it. MJ is working on making a webpage showing the Zorro parasols. You can see the MJ's parasols that she made for the film Cold Mountain at http://shootingstarhistory.com/cwparasols.html . Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 17:01:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49L1jGL007815 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:01:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49L1DYs008570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 15:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49L0vmm089668; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:00:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j49L0qTa089512 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:00:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.29 with login) by smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 May 2005 21:00:46 -0000 Message-ID: <00d501c554da$2c956880$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505072347.j47NlH5K006033@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> <427F7F55.5020804@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 17:00:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > The only requirements are "an attempt" at historical clothing. > There's no enforcement, so you're as likely to see fairy wings and > vampire teeth as anything else. While the public is not excluded from > events, they're usually not advertised to either, they tend to be club > activities, not shows. In actual fact, you're not "as likely to see fairy wings and vampire teeth as anything else." It's been a very long time since I've seen either at any event other than Pennsic, which attracts a decent number of non-SCA attendees --and even then, it's been in decline. (I think I saw some fairy wings on a five year old recently--but that doesn't really count :-) While there is no enforcement at the event level, people who wear the completely non-period stuff usually get the idea fairly quickly that that's not what's done in the SCA. What you will see is wildly varying "attempts"--from clothing straight out of bad fantasy novels, converted prom dresses, the odd Baroque or Rev War outfit on a newcomer, or items made from silly prints all the way up through clothing that would not be out of place in a museum display, including hand sewing, full sets of underclothing/underpinnings, and extensive research. The only thing you can say about the SCA's standards is that they vary from individual to individual. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 17:05:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49L5seh007860 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:05:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49L5NYs009104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 15:05:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49L5LeE093639; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:05:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49L5JYA093601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:05:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-192.sonic.net [209.148.114.192]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49L5HF6000564 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:05:18 -0700 Message-ID: <427FD08F.1060804@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 14:05:19 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French costume movies References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw a performance of the play "Cyrano de Bergerac" at ACT in San Fransisco, which was even better than the film. As music, they used Pachabel's Canon in D, which worked very well. The play had me weeping into a hanky. Even though I thought, and still think, the characters are all blithering idiots, lacking even elementary common sense. I can't find a recording of "Beaumarchais l'Insolent," I just looked. I bought, and last night watched, a DVD of Eric Rohmer's "The Lady and the Duke." The film is in French (with English subtitles), and the translated title is a bit tacky. But it is an absolutely gorgeous film. It takes place during the Reign of Terror. The settings all look like paintings, and according to the liner notes many of them _were_ painted. But they really work. The main character, a real Englishwoman called Grace Elliot, wears a different dress for almost every scene, and they're great dresses. OK, so dressing in high style wasn't a bright idea during the French Revolution, but still, the costumes are fun to look at. I don't know anything about Grace Elliot (though I suspect they mined her memoirs for the film). But from my rather dim memory of my French Revolution history class, they didn't get any events glaringly wrong. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >> Gerard Depardieu in "Cyrano de Bergerac" - bravura performance - made >> me cry, and my French is not brilliant!! > > > If you're going along those lines, you might also want to try > "Ridicule". It's not my period but the costumes seemed pretty good. > There's also "Beaumarchais l'Insolent", but it's been too long since I > saw it and I don't remember if the costumes were any good - the > movie's good, though! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 17:20:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49LKOmT007941 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49LJkYs011100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 15:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49LJicF006684; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:19:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49LJe1X006600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Mon, 9 May 2005 15:19:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-178.sonic.net [209.148.114.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49LJbLg006042; Mon, 9 May 2005 14:19:38 -0700 Message-ID: <427FD3EC.1070504@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 14:19:40 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, vintage@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Vintage looks in modern clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I posted this material on another email list, and though members of this list might be interested. When you are in a situation where you must wear modern clothes, you can usually tie into some retro or even antique look, wearing either vintage clothes or modern vintage-inspired looks. Working backward chronologically: The 1960s are in, in the form of high-waisted sheath dresses (which I don't much like but some people do) and in "hippie" inspired looks--tie dye, bits of crochet or lace artfully applied to T-shirts, tiered skirts, broomstick skirts, ponchos of all sorts (including shapes and knit fabrics much more interesting than ponchos of the 60s and 70s). www.jjill.com carries some nice clothes of this type. I've been dyeing a lot of knit shirts and camisoles of various styles, with dyes and garments bought at www.dharmatrading.com. No tie dye--I've been doing solids so far, in the washer. I am, however, working up to mixing my own colors and then I will try doing ombre. Ombre is not only in fashion, I've always loved the way it looks. I'm also decorating my dyed knit tops with photocopy transfers of antique fashion plates, and with little odd bits of lace I haven't been able to use for anything else. Patchwork per se has not come back in yet but I'm betting it will. The 1950s are in, in the form of circle skirts, cashmere sweaters, twin sets, embroidered wool or cashmere sweaters, beaded cashmere sweaters, and mink stoles. eBay always lists lots of these items. Waarm weather is the time to buy vintage furs cheap. I've been buying the little fox and mink shoulder stoles (which I think are more from the 1960s), and the long straight stoles of, I think, the 1970s. Furs, BTW, deteriorate more rapidly than many fabrics, so a pre-1950 fur may not be what you want. The 1930s are in, in the form of high-waisted cap-sleeved thin blouses and dresses. www.maxstudio.com has some absolutely charming tops. The 1920s are in, to some extent. I particularly like the designs of Rebecca Taylor. I've bought some great silk tunic tops and camisoles of hers. You can buy her designs discounted at www.bluefly.com (which has a huge selection, and I also love them for ponchos and cashmere sweaters) and www.shoplastyle.com. Many designers are doing tiered, floaty miniskirts. I like the asymmetry of many of them--asymmetry is in--though I've never cared for minis per se. The circa 1900 look is sort of in, in the form of little crocheted capelets that are almost exactly like the big bertha collars of that period. I just got one in the mail. I can wear it as a capelet, and then when it goes out of style I can put it on a reproduction dress. I can bring out some huge original collars I have and wear them as modern capelets, and then later use them as antique collars again. There's always wearable art. I've been buying some skirts from a site called www.artfulwears.com. The line I like most is, unfortunately, available only in synthetics, but it's also much less expensive than it would be in dupioni (which is what I think they should be using). It includes long 1880s-ish bustle-y styles, and long cargo skirts with side "barrels" reminiscent of the late 1910s. And, you can make your own. I've been making skirts out of vintage embroidered tablecloths. A ton of these are available, from the 1940s into the 1960s (as are tons of damask, striped, retro-printed, and other tablecloths). I've always used linens as a great source of hand-embroidered fabric for historic reproductions, and I've always cut them up and concealed their origins as much as possible. Now I'm making modern skirts, and I don't care if they look like tablecloths as long as they look good. I've been making them to look modern and usually asymmetrical, but I also rely heavily on 1880s overskirts for inspiration. Square, rectangular, circular, and oval tablecloths are all suitable; each gives a different look. I just cut a hole across for the waist and down for an opening, put the cloth on a dress form, and start draping and pleating. (Well, actually, I do some experimentation on the form before cutting the opening, because it is not necessarily centered.) Then, of course, I add a waistband, a placket, and fasteners. It's an easy way to produce a really beautiful skirt. Choosing the tablecloth with the right decoration is a large part of success. 1910s style straight camisoles (and longer tunic variations) are also in. When I have matching runners and/or napkins I use them to make tops. One thing is, I never get rid of any clothes of high quality (and I try to acquire no other kind), whether I made or bought them. In the Edwardian-inspired period of the 1980s, I wore Ralph Lauren long tweed skirts and jackets to work every day (as a senior editor for a book publisher), together with real Edwardian white blouses and huge-brimmed hats. I still have it all--not only the antique items, but the Ralph Lauren. Someday I'll be able to wear it again as fashion clothes. Right now I'm pulling out hand-crocheted tops I bought at crafts fairs in the 1970s. They're back in again. On the other hand, I never buy or wear anything I don't like. I've bought a ton of clothes since last fall, but there was a period of five or six years when I bought almost none. Everything seemed to be black or charcoal gray, and either a suit or a miniskirt. I just ignored it all. I wore what I already had, and I sewed or bought vintage when I needed something I didn't have. When the current retro phase goes out of style, I'll do that again. This strategy means I have to store a lot of stuff. But it also means I've dressed retro most of my life without necessarily raising eyebrows in the street. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 17:50:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49LoXN8008209 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:50:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49LnAYs015176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 15:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Ln8Vd032377; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:49:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swiftsure.concentric.com (swiftsure.concentric.com [207.155.252.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49Ln5uP032336 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:49:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by swiftsure.concentric.com id RAA18143; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:48:58 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505092148.RAA18143@swiftsure.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 14:48:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505072347.j47NlH5L006033@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j49Ln5uP032336 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dressmaking Dummy Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some friends and I want to make dressmaking dummies - probably the foam filled plaster bandage kind. Since you're supposed to measure over the appropriate support garments, what do you wear when having your body cast done? I mean, one of the dresses I want is a self supporting cote. After nursing 2 children there's a definite difference in where my bust is with and without a bra on. If I have the dummy made with a bra on, how would I be able to fit a cote? If I have the dummy made with bust approaching my waist, how do I raise it as it should be by the gown/corset/etc? Thanks Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 17:51:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49LpG4Z008216 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:51:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49LohYs015453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 15:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49LoXNH033748; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:50:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts5.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49LdJE1023533 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:39:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([64.231.205.129]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050509213918.WZGI26128.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:39:18 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509172837.00b64c68@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 17:38:40 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Penny and List I've decided to reply on list so that anyone else who needs to know this bit of info will have the benefit. I did try a search on this subject in the archives before I queried and was not able to find any mention of this at all. Thank you so much for the fair warning. I can't tell you how much I appreciate your kind advice. It is REALLY too bad as the listed articles look great. Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to write you off list. PLEASE,PLEASE do not send money to these people. They have a really bad reputation. They will take your money and not send the product. I know many, many people who have sent money to them and never received a thing over the years. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 18:33:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49MX3iP008587 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:33:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49MWFYs020897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 16:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49MWAlD071447; Mon, 9 May 2005 16:32:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49MW4sx071353 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 16:32:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8A03C50C for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:32:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D436C609 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:32:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 17:32:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050509120242.025e0d60@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a bit of trivia. A Faire in the middle ages and renaissance usually, like 98% of the time, meant a gathering of people to show and sell livestock. Example: a State Fair A Festival was a gathering for a particular holiday or celebration. Example: Mardi Gras This is why I get a little tickled when they call it a renaissance "faire". :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 18:33:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49MXCZM008590 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:33:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49MWXYs020930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 16:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49MWWC6071748; Mon, 9 May 2005 16:32:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:moO8ZVR5J8tWoa35kdolDYL8MqbmIaZW@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49MWRtg071670 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 16:32:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j49MWQ8Z006356 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:32:27 -0400 Received: from dci012034013034.discovery.com ([12.34.13.34]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <59519.12.34.13.34.1115677947.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <200505092148.RAA18143@swiftsure.concentric.com> References: <200505072347.j47NlH5L006033@net.indra.com> <200505092148.RAA18143@swiftsure.concentric.com> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 18:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressmaking Dummy Question From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If the cote is anything like Robin Netherton's gothic fitted gown (you say it's self-supporting) I don't think you can do it justice with a dummy. You need to see how the fabric behaves on your body, which means you need to fit with the actual fabric. A corset is different. If you have the dummy made over a corset, then you should be able to fit it that way. A corset tends to harden the body into a solid shape, whereas the gothic fitted gown works with a soft, natural body. -Carol > Some friends and I want to make dressmaking dummies - probably the foam > filled plaster bandage kind. > > Since you're supposed to measure over the appropriate support garments, > what do you wear when having your body cast done? I mean, one of the > dresses I want is a self supporting cote. After nursing 2 children > there's a definite difference in where my bust is with and without a bra > on. > > If I have the dummy made with a bra on, how would I be able to fit a cote? > If I have the dummy made with bust approaching my waist, how do I raise > it as it should be by the gown/corset/etc? > > Thanks > Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 18:58:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49MwwXY008747 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49LM7Ys011425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 15:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49LM57n008861; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:22:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49LM1px008782 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 15:22:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-54-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.54.47]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49LLHXx016635 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:21:18 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050509125242.03242010@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 13:41:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509201355.015f1360@127.0.0.1> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Costumed Interpreters, and "Room Guardians" are people who work usually as >volunteers, in costume as authentic as possible, in "stately homes" and >public buildings. They have their costumes made professionally Here these people are usually called docents, and there is a wide range of variation in their costumes. Some only want to look "old-timey", and they make do (late 1800s) with long sleeved white blouses with some lace on them, long skirts, and straw hats with flowers on them. Others use some pattern that claims to be historically based. Others may have their costumes made professionally but I think the usual way is for the docent to pay for these. I think it's the rare docent here who gets to have costumes provided. At one site, where I used to docent, all the participants made their own costumes. They were mostly "old-timey" till one of the docents, using money provided by the site, made some more historical-looking costumes for the rangers and staff. I made my own costumes for there, corsets and all, but felt that I had to dress simply so I didn't clash with what everyone else was wearing. At another site, where I still docent, they hired a professional historical seamstress to make all the historical costumes, until she died. After that they ordered the costumes from some catalog, corsets and all. A new crop of docents came in with a Ren. Faire/Dickens' Faire background, and we had to argue the ranger in charge of the program (who had no costuming background and who loved her catalog costume) into letting us make our own costumes. Oddly, the argument that we would be saving the program hundreds of dollars wasn't the one that worked. We had to show up fully costumed before she would believe we knew what we were doing. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 19:09:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49N9hEj008800 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 19:09:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49N9BYs025383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 17:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49N7pHI002768; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49N7GiS002001 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:07:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skskaw@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 ([204.127.197.111]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050509230710014003gie6e>; Mon, 9 May 2005 23:07:10 +0000 Received: from [24.21.113.38] by 204.127.197.111; Mon, 09 May 2005 23:07:10 +0000 From: skskaw@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redressing dolls Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 23:07:10 +0000 Message-Id: <050920052307.17190.427FED1B0009448E000043262200737478990E059C059C@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2tza2F3QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of questions on redressing dolls. Sounds interesting. First, why dress a doll that small? Second, why vinyl? and for that matter, why pale-skinned? Is there a certain trend or reason for these criteria? (lapsing poetic)...When I was young, a local bank used to have a dress-a-doll-thing they did at Christmas. Everyone who participated would get a doll (I think they had "blank" dolls people would just buy one -- seems to me they were in the 16-22" variety?) and then they would make costumes/clothing for them. Then they would be given away at Christmas. I remember once going to the bank on a Saturday (banks weren't open on Saturday back then) and every available space had dressed up dolls in it, the whole bank. Of course, at that time of year you get a lot of Victorian stuff and cloaks/winter capes and mufflers. It was awsome! SKneeland -------------- Original message -------------- > > Those listmembers who like to redress Barbie dolls in historic costumes > for kids, collectors, themselves, or for the Salvation Army's > Dress-a-Doll projects(like me) and are looking for paler-skinned vinyl > dolls now have a couple of options besides yard and second-hand stores. > > Some of the City Style Barbies sold at KayBee Toys and Walgreens have > paler-toned vinyl and or solid-color hair in a natural tone. I scored a > City Style Barbie for $3.50 at my local Walgreens with pale skin and > center-parted brown hair. Prices vary at various Walgreens depending on > how many they have in stock. Even the blue to pink-toned eyeshadow is > not too garish, although a giveaway to historical accuracy unless one is > redressing doll in the Yardley 'Blooming Colors" swinging '60's era. > Well, it beats putting a Elizabethan or 1890's gown on a very-well > tanned basic Barbie dressed for the beach. > > There are also the Fashion Fever Barbies, especially Drew and Teresa if > you are willing to pay more and plow through some really wild hair > colors and sometimes vivid makeup screening. Drew is a redhead(or at > least when her hair isn't blue)and always seems cast in a paler vinyl, > as is Teresa(who started out Hispanic and went from dark brunette to > honey blond in the last year). > > Cindy Abel > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 19:12:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49NCAd9008811 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 19:12:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49NBQYs025826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 17:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49NBPoa006215; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:11:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49NAofY005656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:10:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DVHOV-0007ka-4A; Mon, 09 May 2005 18:10:35 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:10:35 -0500 Message-ID: <20050509181035.1gg204l042cwswcw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 18:10:35 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I tell people that one of the Big Differences -- a Ren Faire is a spectator sport whereas the SCA is a "participant sport." Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 19:12:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j49NCWPd008816 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 19:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49NC3Ys026059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 17:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49NBuUM006798; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j49NBD3B006001 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 17:11:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49NBBee026269 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 19:11:11 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.54.47] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-54-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.54.47]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j49NB737258074 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 19:11:12 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050509160855.024fc738@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 16:10:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050509120242.025e0d60@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >A Faire in the middle ages and renaissance usually, like 98% of the time, >meant a gathering of people to show and sell livestock. Example: a State >Fair >A Festival was a gathering for a particular holiday or celebration. Example: >Mardi Gras >This is why I get a little tickled when they call it a renaissance "faire". >:) Don't think Medieval Market Faire, think modern craft fair, and you'll feel better. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 20:51:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A0pt17009420 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:51:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A0pCYs007030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 18:51:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A0p8Ee083590; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:51:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:+gOounC3QthVqO6kjSmUMILVkn3u46R1@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A0p3nt083533 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:51:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.146] (pool180-146.patriot.net [209.249.180.146]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j4A0p08a025359 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:51:01 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <050920052307.17190.427FED1B0009448E000043262200737478990E059C059C@comcast .net> References: <050920052307.17190.427FED1B0009448E000043262200737478990E059C059C@comcast .net> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 20:50:06 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redressing dolls Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >A couple of questions on redressing dolls. Sounds interesting. >First, why dress a doll that small? I've seen porcelain dolls available that are even smaller. Something about miniature things is fun! >Second, why vinyl? It's a Barbie doll! They're easy to find, and each one will be the same dress size as the next one. It's not for absolute historic accuracy. Doll making is fun, but not everyone wants to make every doll that they dress. >and for that matter, why pale-skinned? In spite of the vinyl thing, there is a certain fashionable asthetic. Tans were not popular until the 20thC. What I understood from the original post is that most "white" Barbies are tanned. And aside from that doofy, wide-eyed grinning expression, the idea is to make the Barbie look like a painting of whatever era. >Is there a certain trend or reason for these criteria? Speaking of porcelain, my mother was making porcelain dolls for a while. Most of the molds available are late 19thC. I wanted something earlier, 1830 - 50. While I saw them in doll magazines, she could not track down anyone who had the mold. Porcelain dolls really didn't come in until the 19thC. I have a few dolls made from a modern mold, however, which worked out rather well for historic dress. They look like little porcelain people, not historic dolls. My favorite was a fairy mold that someone had. I thought it would be wonderful with Wedgewood porcelain - blue, green, or black. The owner was afraid that would stain the mold, so I got them tinted with colors in the painting process instead. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 20:56:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A0uEpV009449 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:56:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A0tSYs007526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 18:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A0tS39086637; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:55:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A0tOv0086596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 18:55:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:52413 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DVJ1v-0002vD-Kq for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 09 May 2005 20:55:24 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.183 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3489.198.93.211.183.1115686529.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 20:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage looks in modern clothes From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.183 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <427FD3EC.1070504@lavoltapress.com> References: <427FD3EC.1070504@lavoltapress.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I posted this material on another email list, and though members of this > list might be interested. > > When you are in a situation where you must wear modern > clothes, you can usually tie into some retro or even antique look, > wearing either vintage clothes or modern vintage-inspired looks. > Thanks, Fran, good stuff. I'll be saving this post. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 22:22:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A2MDx7010486 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:22:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A2LCYs016933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 20:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A2L9TN050512; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:21:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A2L6IX050477 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:21:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-54-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.54.47]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A2KNXx019038 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:20:23 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050509191314.03268d50@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 19:14:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redressing dolls In-Reply-To: References: <050920052307.17190.427FED1B0009448E000043262200737478990E059C059C@comcast .net> <050920052307.17190.427FED1B0009448E000043262200737478990E059C059C@comcast .net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>A couple of questions on redressing dolls. Sounds interesting. First, >>why dress a doll that small? > > I've seen porcelain dolls available that are even smaller. Something > about miniature things is fun! Because, among other things that Barbie has, there are patterns in that size. And you can find Barbies by the dozen, really cheap, in almost any thrift store. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 22:30:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A2UXMk010574 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:30:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A2U5Ys017940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 20:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A2U4Pw056902; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:30:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A2U2rk056763 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:30:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Georgeren2@aol.com) Received: from Georgeren2@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1a1.3378f2bb (4222) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Georgeren2@aol.com Message-ID: <1a1.3378f2bb.2fb176a0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 22:29:52 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Dawn. I like that you explain this well without being snide _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 22:32:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A2WBif010584 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:32:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A2VfYs018165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 20:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A2VeWv058092; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:31:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A2VapJ058000 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 20:31:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Georgeren2@aol.com) Received: from Georgeren2@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1ff.14443f9 (4222) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Georgeren2@aol.com Message-ID: <1ff.14443f9.2fb17701@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 22:31:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Dawn for keeping on subject and not making snide demeaning remarks. Each holds a place in re-enactment. Patrice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 23:07:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A375pu010815 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 23:07:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A36WYs022258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 21:06:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A36UdB083713; Mon, 9 May 2005 21:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A36Ro8083668 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 21:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from sheryl.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-110-126.kc.res.rr.com [65.30.110.126]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j4A2q1G4005115 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 21:52:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050509221544.00a05a00@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 22:19:16 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: looking for makeup In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I didn't realize Dawn was here in Kansas City. If KC Costume doesn't have it, try US Toy at 103rd and State Line. Their costume and magic shop has a good line of theatrical and clown makeups. That's where I got my Mehron facepaints. Sheryl N-D At 08:15 AM 5/9/05 -0500, you wrote: > > I'm looking for a really yellow bright metallic gold lipstick. What I > > can find is either too subtle, too brown, or it's clear lipgloss. I >need > > opaque in-your-face color. > > > > Any suggestions? > > Dawn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Have you tried KC Costume? They have a lot of theatrical makeup as >well as costumes & props. > >Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 9 23:23:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A3N0Qt010905 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 23:23:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A3MBYs024254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 21:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A3M8lb095955; Mon, 9 May 2005 21:22:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A3LsRS095711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 21:22:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A4dsnw022043 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:39:54 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 23:21:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505092321.49093.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO FYI; I just received this email from B&N tonight: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Your Barnes & Noble.com Order #BN67960988 Date: Monday 09 May 2005 8:26 pm From: service@barnesandnoble.com To: cathy@thyrsus.com Dear Catherine Raymond, Thank you for shopping with us. Your order is now packed and ready to leave our warehouse. The details of your order appear below. Within 24 hours of receiving this email, you may track the delivery status of your order at http://wwwapps.ups.com/ietracking/tracking.cgi?tracknum=1Z1812530330941939&I ATA=us&Lang=eng. [snip] The following is packed and ready to leave our warehouse: Bill To: Catherine Raymond Ship To: Catherine Raymond, 6 Karen Drive, Malvern, PA 19355 QTY PRICE TITLE SHIP DATE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 $28.76 Medieval Clothing and Textiles 1 ISBN:1843831236 May 09, 2005 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [snip] -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 00:05:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A459vl011310 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:05:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A44XYs028481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 22:04:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A44Qr9026002; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A44NBb025894 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:04:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678C63BC89 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 23:04:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <428032CE.7090304@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 23:04:30 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup References: <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> <200505072034.08511.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200505072034.08511.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Replies to various... > > There's got to be someplace on the Internet you can buy these things, and > more... You'd think. :) I spent three days in February scouring the internet before giving up. Lots of makeup, not the colours I want. Thanks to everyone for the brand name suggestions. I'd found Kryolan in my previous search, they have (or had) the red eyeshadow, but the price is a real killer for me. ($14.95 plus shipping) I'm already over budget on this costume. The gold powder suggestions really give me ideas. I think I can find gold leaf easier than I can find gold lipstick. > try US Toy at 103rd and State Line. If their hours didn't suck I'd have been there already. :) They're next on my list of places to look, though. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 00:22:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A4MM85011467 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A4LVYs000354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 22:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4LUPs038172; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail04.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4LRnf038127 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:21:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=0n2sVE=TR=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200505100421.j4A4LRnf038127@net.indra.com> Received: from scan04.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.234] helo=scan04.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail04.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DVMFK-0006w4-H7 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:21:26 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] ident=exim) by scan04.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DVMFK-0004Ok-J3 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:21:26 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] helo=authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan04.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DVMFK-0004Oh-Bc for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:21:26 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DVMFJ-0008Ud-TW for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:21:26 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:21:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509172837.00b64c68@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 Thread-Index: AcVU4oYnaYoYDmu9SsKBCI8D74pFjwANHOVw X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's really too bad that this turned out to be such a scam. I have been thinking about creating a publication, possibly bi-monthly, that would be appealing to costumers. There is a growing interest in costuming, and there are very few resources out there that are compiled into one reliable source. It seems like there are enough people (even just on this e-list) that could provide articles. Would you pay $12-15 per year for 6 issues of a magazine of this type? That would cover some printing costs. Targeted advertisers could offset the rest. It looks like the attempt by this company included articles as well as advertising. I am not sure what they printed it on - is there anyone out there that actually has a copy I could borrow? Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 00:28:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A4Sqjr011506 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A4S8Ys000817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 22:28:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4S5wm042070; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:28:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4S2Lw042035 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.237.125] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DVMLh-00077q-Te for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:28:02 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type; b=p80kCZIvVNT6w2bRUX+94gir/OFQo04qY2Pjq3w1/KlzNXuPVHgWWXnsbaExOt7X; Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:20:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47874241ab66785ff6db2f9318fbbf2dcbc6ad9f80456ff3f8b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.237.125 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 3:48 PM -0400 5/8/05, Linda Rice wrote: >Hi~! > >I don't know of any hard evidence for pants in England in the 12th >century. We do know that some >Viking cultures had pants (Thorsbjerg, for example) but we aren't >even sure about a lot of details Sorry for jumping on one of my pet bugaboos, but the Thorsbjerg pants (and others in the same type-group, such as the Damendorf trousers) date roughly to the first couple of centuries CE and can't really be called "Viking", even stretching the term seriously. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 00:28:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A4SuLs011509 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:28:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A4SKYs000833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 22:28:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4SIqH042192; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:28:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4SCoT042084 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:28:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m119.in-tch.com [216.166.191.119]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4A4NX026604 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <428039A9.1080600@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 22:33:45 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T References: <200505092321.49093.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200505092321.49093.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO congrats to both of us, then, because I came home to a virtually identical message! My victory yell could have awakened the neighborhood! --sue, doing a happy dance ;-D Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > FYI; I just received this email from B&N tonight: > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: Your Barnes & Noble.com Order #BN67960988 > Date: Monday 09 May 2005 8:26 pm > From: service@barnesandnoble.com > To: cathy@thyrsus.com > > Dear Catherine Raymond, > > Thank you for shopping with us. > > Your order is now packed and ready to leave our warehouse. The details of > your order appear below. Within 24 hours of receiving this email, you may > track the delivery status of your order at > http://wwwapps.ups.com/ietracking/tracking.cgi?tracknum=1Z1812530330941939&I > ATA=us&Lang=eng. > [snip] > > The following is packed and ready to leave our warehouse: > > Bill To: Catherine Raymond > Ship To: Catherine Raymond, 6 Karen Drive, Malvern, PA 19355 > > QTY PRICE TITLE SHIP DATE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 1 $28.76 Medieval Clothing and Textiles 1 > ISBN:1843831236 May 09, 2005 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [snip] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 00:40:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A4eZJr011603 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:40:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A4dwYs002447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 22:39:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4dvUC050308; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4drWs050260 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.4] (206-124-5-4.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.4]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j4A4avK01842 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:36:58 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <200505100421.j4A4LRnf038127@net.indra.com> References: <200505100421.j4A4LRnf038127@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <464d7f155635508668261ab6836a9762@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 22:39:58 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a copy or two I could send you. It wasnt really a scam. I knew the woman who published the magazine and she was really trying hard to make a go of this business. I'm sorry she had such difficulties and things turned out so badly for so many. Sylrog On May 9, 2005, at 10:21 PM, Becky @ SewingCity.com wrote: > That's really too bad that this turned out to be such a scam. I have > been > thinking about creating a publication, possibly bi-monthly, that would > be > appealing to costumers. There is a growing interest in costuming, and > there > are very few resources out there that are compiled into one reliable > source. > It seems like there are enough people (even just on this e-list) that > could > provide articles. Would you pay $12-15 per year for 6 issues of a > magazine > of this type? That would cover some printing costs. Targeted > advertisers > could offset the rest. > > It looks like the attempt by this company included articles as well as > advertising. I am not sure what they printed it on - is there anyone > out > there that actually has a copy I could borrow? > > Becky > http://www.sewingcity.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 00:47:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A4lF3q011676 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:47:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A4kGYs003065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 May 2005 22:46:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A4kFCB054465; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:46:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4A4kEHE054399 for ; Mon, 9 May 2005 22:46:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 66280 invoked by uid 60001); 10 May 2005 04:46:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=ILQhZ02YQbaaH4JhaYTFkGTtipKO2WJsuPyXTaHiHK4k4Qex3HfIidSv9Rq1xjwKlczXqqYS/8t5+Rey+DUzN0iY8Exk7C/wFL1lPk/XAtOL1au+pqr6Nnch3D4puf6IeHFbRsEcZuYvZDHszSC4HRh2qGu6wAGZ/zBdM7+E1H0= ; Message-ID: <20050510044608.66278.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.74] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 May 2005 21:46:08 PDT Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:46:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200505092105.j49L5TCo093767@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 302 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay a brief syopsis from a dedicated SCAer and REN faire atendee SCA is aimed at re-creating history and preserving a way of ding things.. Ie tablet weaviing, bardic circles etc..... the goal is to research history..... Ren Faire= A fop Version of SCA very entertaining and not really historical and does not claim to be.... I really enjoy both! I get to learn History and do research for SCA and at Ren Faire I get to "Let my hair Down and have Fun For funs sake! And most people I know who vend at SCA events also Vend at REN Faire. The Prices are generally cheaper at SCA events than ren Faire not always but Generally.... Ps I have recently seen fairy wings at our Local shire meetings..... Vamp teeth not sice I married and moved......But they do exhist in sca mostly these things are teens in the local group I belong to .. but kidswill be kids..... I personally like keeping these different... but I treat it like school Classes I do historical research for an assignment in one class... SCA... Play in the other class as if its a gym or art class... Faire.... Odd analogy but it works for me..... Both groups have Pluses and minuses... and both are entertaining and fun depending on your interests..... Satine.... Back to lurking --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 02:03:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A63bZu012974 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 02:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A62VYs009386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 00:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A62Qvr004157; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:02:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A62NOP004056 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 00:02:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005051006021701500pabere>; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:02:17 +0000 Message-ID: <00d201c55525$c7270020$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505100421.j4A4LRnf038127@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 02:01:58 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Magazines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Becky, I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I have seen four costume publications shut down over the past 9 years. All were really good publications, but printing is very expensive. Especially when it comes to color print. I think some of the problems is that advertisers have lost faith in the magazines for historic costume because of the four magazines that stopped publication. Advertisers is where you get the money for the backbone of the business. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 03:10:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A7Au2M002032 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 03:10:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A7A5Ys013942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 01:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A7A1ks050882; Tue, 10 May 2005 01:10:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail18.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.75]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A79w6e050815 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 01:09:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=0n2sVE=TR=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com> Received: from scan05.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.235] helo=scan05.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail18.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DVOsP-0004CO-JN for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 03:09:57 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] ident=exim) by scan05.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DVOsP-0000fL-Co for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 03:09:57 -0400 Received: from authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.155] helo=authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan05.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DVOsO-0000fB-Un for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 03:09:56 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp01.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DVOsO-0006rC-BP for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 03:09:56 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 00:09:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcVVJq0H81tTZjwaQNCm5gGE3V7VgAABzclg In-Reply-To: <00d201c55525$c7270020$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- >I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I have seen four costume >publications shut down over the past 9 years. All were really good >publications, but printing is very expensive. Especially when it comes to >color print. Very practical advice, thank you. I think that the reason the magazines didn't make it was that a proper analysis for the business wasn't done. Sure, it's a great idea in theory, but you have to look at all the expenses involved, and be ready to make an investment of not only time, but money as well. This would include not only printing costs, but shipping costs, costs to reimburse contributors, advertising monies, and other expenses. I think one has to look further than the printing press costs. >I think some of the problems is that advertisers have lost faith in the >magazines for historic costume because of the four magazines that stopped >publication. Advertisers is where you get the money for the backbone of >the business. One thing that could be done initially is to offer free or reduced-price advertising for an issue or two, so that advertisers could get a feel for the audience response. Also, have in the bank a year's worth of articles for magazine content. I think the worst part about the Costume Press is that they are still offering issues for sale. This is very misleading and poor business practice. They should have taken the website down a long time ago. I will continue looking into this venture to see what type of investment it will require, marketing, etc., and I'll post something if I can get it off the ground. Thanks for your feedback, Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 03:50:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4A7obaH008675 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 03:50:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4A7o5Ys016643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 01:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A7o4KC076535; Tue, 10 May 2005 01:50:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4A7o18Y076409 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 01:50:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005051007495501200pov78e>; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:49:55 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 03:49:36 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Becky, Two of the magazines were a part of large magazine publishing corporations. They offered the get a free issue or two. I am sure they did their homework. I just remembered another costume/vintage fashion magazine that shut down... so that is five now. I know they had one or two issues. With the two corp. magazines, their annual subscription rates were very high. I offer the advice because I watch magazines that are being published because I studied fashion publishing in college. It is a hobby of mine to watch who is doing well and who is not AND why. You really need to look at the demographics and see what target groups spend money. Also look what time periods do people send money on... some groups spend very little. Each one of these magazines targeted certain audiences. Study more into why these magazines failed and only one stayed around for a while. Look at why they were successful. My background is in fashion marketing and merchandising. I have fun following all the demographics. Boring to some, but very interesting to me! Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 06:37:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AAbE9U014195 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:37:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AAaWYs029589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 04:36:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AAaSkE083313; Tue, 10 May 2005 04:36:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp100.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp100.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4AAaPEO083219 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 04:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.29 with login) by smtp100.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2005 10:36:20 -0000 Message-ID: <006301c5554c$1bc359f0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com> <000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 06:36:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Two of the magazines were a part of large magazine publishing corporations. > They offered the get a free issue or two. I am sure they did their > homework. I just remembered another costume/vintage fashion magazine that > shut down... so that is five now. I know they had one or two issues. With > the two corp. magazines, their annual subscription rates were very high. This is one reason I think the Medieval Costume and Textiles journal has a shot at succeeding where the others haven't. For one thing, they didn't aim too high (as in they didn't try for a quarterly or monthly) or at the wrong group. The academic book market is already a fairly small market, but one Boydell and Brewer already serves and has done well in. An academic journal is also not expected to pay for iteself in advertising or newstand sales. Plus, each of these volumes will stand quite well on their own as books. I honestly think it would be fairly difficult for any good costume publication to survive without the backing of a professional organization or as primarily a moneymaking venture. It's very much a niche market, and one that seems to disseminate information through several individual groups with particular specialties--often using informal methods or direct contact of teachers with interested students. There are people who are interested in costume throughout history, and things such as CostumeCon, but it seems a lot more common to have a specialty and to interact primarily with others with similar specialties. The Internet has also made direct sharing of information a lot easier. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 08:03:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AC3XRY015123 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 08:03:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AC2gYs005741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 06:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AC2b2p040966; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:02:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AC2Wf8040823 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:02:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A2D11B5E0040; Tue, 10 May 2005 08:02:25 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.117 ([209.131.81.117] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 May 05 12:02:21 -0000 Message-ID: <003101c55558$6624d4e0$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.1.6.2.20050509172837.00b64c68@pop8.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:04:18 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I subscribed at the time this mag began. It took over two years to get 4 issues! So much for a year's subscription. I did not find the material given or reviewed to be of any significance. The photography was amateurish. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn Luckham" To: Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 5:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. > Penny and List > > I've decided to reply on list so that anyone else who needs to know this > bit of info will have the benefit. I did try a search on this subject in > the archives before I queried and was not able to find any mention of this > at all. > > Thank you so much for the fair warning. I can't tell you how much I > appreciate your kind advice. It is REALLY too bad as the listed articles > look great. > > Dawn > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > I wanted to write you off list. PLEASE,PLEASE do not send money to these > people. They have a really bad reputation. They will take your money and > not send the product. I know many, many people who have sent money to them > and never received a thing over the years. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 08:07:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AC7DLN015151 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 08:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AC6iYs005901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 06:06:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AC6frD043766; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:06:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AC6JRa043506 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A3B534A20082; Tue, 10 May 2005 08:06:13 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.117 ([209.131.81.117] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 May 05 12:06:03 -0000 Message-ID: <005801c55558$ea6fb6c0$755183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505100421.j4A4LRnf038127@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:08:01 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do, you can contact me off list. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 12:21 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. > That's really too bad that this turned out to be such a scam. I have been > thinking about creating a publication, possibly bi-monthly, that would be > appealing to costumers. There is a growing interest in costuming, and there > are very few resources out there that are compiled into one reliable source. > It seems like there are enough people (even just on this e-list) that could > provide articles. Would you pay $12-15 per year for 6 issues of a magazine > of this type? That would cover some printing costs. Targeted advertisers > could offset the rest. > > It looks like the attempt by this company included articles as well as > advertising. I am not sure what they printed it on - is there anyone out > there that actually has a copy I could borrow? > > Becky > http://www.sewingcity.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 09:27:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ADRAQK015835 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:27:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ADQGYs023987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 07:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADQB26003380; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:26:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADQ92P003324 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:26:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB92B4075D for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id B110D3970; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 06:26:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCgLZrAAnTsQEAAAAB,5aace8635a7a1719f721ab9a0fe898d4 Message-Id: <20050510132603.B110D3970@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, here's my 2 cents worth (and we all know how far 2 cents goes these days). Costume is a HUGE field. I love this list because it covers all historical periods, but it isn't enough for someone like me who also does Sci Fi and other stuff (right now, a couple of monsters for a friend's indy movie). If the magazine were designed to cover ALL costuming I would subscribe in a heartbeat. Needless to say, you would not expect everything covered in every issue, but getting help and suggestions for everything from Halloween to Queen Elizabeth with a bit of movie magic thrown in would be worth the forty or fifty dollars a year for twelve issues. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Becky @ SewingCity.com" wrote: From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 21:21:22 -0700 To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. That's really too bad that this turned out to be such a scam. I have been thinking about creating a publication, possibly bi-monthly, that would be appealing to costumers. There is a growing interest in costuming, and there are very few resources out there that are compiled into one reliable source. It seems like there are enough people (even just on this e-list) that could provide articles. Would you pay $12-15 per year for 6 issues of a magazine of this type? That would cover some printing costs. Targeted advertisers could offset the rest. It looks like the attempt by this company included articles as well as advertising. I am not sure what they printed it on - is there anyone out there that actually has a copy I could borrow? Becky http://www.sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 09:28:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ADSrCO015853 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:28:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ADSMYs024604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 07:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADSMtJ005108; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:28:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADSIQe005072 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:28:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E6240027 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:28:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id D486A396F; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 06:28:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCgLbrAAxKgAEAAAAB,4de07776484acf3db19cff1c7db186ad Message-Id: <20050510132811.D486A396F@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lucky you two! B & N cancelled my order so I have to buy the high price one. I won't buy it from B & N though. They are off my "favorites" list for good!!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Sue Clemenger wrote: From: Sue Clemenger Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 22:33:45 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T congrats to both of us, then, because I came home to a virtually identical message! My victory yell could have awakened the neighborhood! --sue, doing a happy dance ;-D Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > FYI; I just received this email from B&N tonight: > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: Your Barnes & Noble.com Order #BN67960988 > Date: Monday 09 May 2005 8:26 pm > From: service@barnesandnoble.com > To: cathy@thyrsus.com > > Dear Catherine Raymond, > > Thank you for shopping with us. > > Your order is now packed and ready to leave our warehouse. The details of > your order appear below. Within 24 hours of receiving this email, you may > track the delivery status of your order at > http://wwwapps.ups.com/ietracking/tracking.cgi?tracknum=1Z1812530330941939&I > ATA=us&Lang=eng. > [snip] > > The following is packed and ready to leave our warehouse: > > Bill To: Catherine Raymond > Ship To: Catherine Raymond, 6 Karen Drive, Malvern, PA 19355 > > QTY PRICE TITLE SHIP DATE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 1 $28.76 Medieval Clothing and Textiles 1 > ISBN:1843831236 May 09, 2005 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [snip] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 09:38:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ADcq8r015959 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:38:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ADcBYs027452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 07:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADc8D3012816; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:38:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADc2OW012709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:38:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4ADUfmT014370 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:30:41 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:30:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4280B938.3090807@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:38:00 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 2,000 year old UK shoe found X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/4530905.stm -- go there for pictures; here's the text: Iron Age shoe unearthed at quarry A shoe thought to be at least 2,000 years old, and the oldest in the UK, has been dug up at an English quarry. The Iron Age relic was found in a hollowed tree trunk at Whiteball Quarry, near Wellington, Somerset. Archaeologists say the shoe is the equivalent of a size 10 and is so well-preserved that stitch and lace holes are still visible in the leather. It has been sent for conservation to Wiltshire and should be displayed at Royal Albert Memorial Museum, Exeter. A team from Exeter Archaeology, led by Stephen Reed, unearthed the shoe when they were excavating at Town Farm, Burlescombe. "What we have now found is a Bronze Age 'industrial' site consisting of two mounds of burnt stone - dated to 1460 to 1290 BC - and two water-filled troughs," he said. "Close by were two timber-built wells, preserved by waterlogging and probably dating from the early part of the Iron Age." One of the wells was constructed over a spring using a hollowed tree trunk set into the ground. The tree trunk was removed from the site so that its contents could be examined under laboratory conditions. 'Oldest shoe' The "truly remarkable" discovery of the shoe was made when this was being undertaken by the Wiltshire Conservation Centre. "As far as we know, this is the oldest shoe ever found in the UK," Mr Reed said. "The shoe measures approximately 30cm, equivalent to a modern size nine or 10, perhaps suggesting its owner was male. "The reason for its presence in the well or spring is a mystery." It is hoped examination of the shoe will shed light on the method of its construction and identify the animal from which the leather was derived. Quarry owners Hanson are working with archaeologists from Exeter Archaeology, Devon County Council and English Heritage, as well as other specialists, to ensure that all the finds from the site are properly recorded and treated. It is hoped, following conservation, that the timbers and shoe will form the central feature of the proposed expansion of the archaeology galleries at the Royal Albert Memorial Museum in Exeter. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent A multimillion-dollar ad campaign blames Democrats for the fact that "courtrooms sit empty." In fact, there are now half as many judicial vacancies as when Bush took office. And of the 46 federal judgeships that remain vacant, Bush has named only 16 replacements. -- Factcheck.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 09:45:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ADjYus015999 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:45:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ADiPYs028068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 07:44:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADiOoS017757; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:44:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADiKtE017697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:44:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DVV1j-0002qn-PP; Tue, 10 May 2005 08:43:59 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 08:43:59 -0500 Message-ID: <20050510084359.abp8my4cj7k0kgww@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:43:59 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costume & dressmaker mag. References: <200505100421.j4A4LRnf038127@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200505100421.j4A4LRnf038127@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting "Becky @ SewingCity.com" : > That's really too bad that this turned out to be such a scam. I have been > thinking about creating a publication, possibly bi-monthly, that would be > appealing to costumers. There is a growing interest in costuming, and there > are very few resources out there that are compiled into one reliable source. > It seems like there are enough people (even just on this e-list) that could > provide articles. Would you pay $12-15 per year for 6 issues of a magazine > of this type? That would cover some printing costs. Targeted advertisers > could offset the rest. > > It looks like the attempt by this company included articles as well as > advertising. I am not sure what they printed it on - is there anyone out > there that actually has a copy I could borrow? Becky, there's already been some chatter on the list about this ... this is the sort of magazine that Taunton Press publishes (Threads, Fine Woodworking, Fine Gardening etc.) (no, I have no connection to them) Wonder how they'd take to a proposal of this sort? Susan (who would pay ...) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 09:53:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ADrfwA016059 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:53:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ADr8Ys028883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 07:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADr7H8024967; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:53:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ADr4tb024921 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 07:53:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447DA4039C for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 75139393E; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 06:52:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCgLy7AAaIAQEAAAAB,db2bcf148181332c7c974bde06bdd13f Message-Id: <20050510135259.75139393E@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was so annoyed that I wrote B & N/ and told them. It took about five minutes to get the following reply. <> So if any of you that got cancelled have your original order number, write them and see if you can get the same deal. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Lalah wrote: From: Lalah Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 06:28:09 -0700 (PDT) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T Lucky you two! B & N cancelled my order so I have to buy the high price one. I won't buy it from B & N though. They are off my "favorites" list for good!!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Sue Clemenger wrote: From: Sue Clemenger Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 22:33:45 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T congrats to both of us, then, because I came home to a virtually identical message! My victory yell could have awakened the neighborhood! --sue, doing a happy dance ;-D Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > FYI; I just received this email from B&N tonight: > > ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > > Subject: Your Barnes & Noble.com Order #BN67960988 > Date: Monday 09 May 2005 8:26 pm > From: service@barnesandnoble.com > To: cathy@thyrsus.com > > Dear Catherine Raymond, > > Thank you for shopping with us. > > Your order is now packed and ready to leave our warehouse. The details of > your order appear below. Within 24 hours of receiving this email, you may > track the delivery status of your order at > http://wwwapps.ups.com/ietracking/tracking.cgi?tracknum=1Z1812530330941939&I > ATA=us&Lang=eng. > [snip] > > The following is packed and ready to leave our warehouse: > > Bill To: Catherine Raymond > Ship To: Catherine Raymond, 6 Karen Drive, Malvern, PA 19355 > > QTY PRICE TITLE SHIP DATE > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 1 $28.76 Medieval Clothing and Textiles 1 > ISBN:1843831236 May 09, 2005 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > [snip] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 11:19:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AFJt2h016679 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 11:19:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AFJ9Ys008204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 09:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AFJ3W2002298; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:19:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AFJ0GC002245 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08028 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:19:00 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Redressing dolls Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Redressing dolls Thread-Index: AcVU7CIQL/QvXBBfQ1exflJmMpcuvwAghlHA From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4AFJ0GC002245 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You wrote A couple of questions on redressing dolls. Sounds interesting. First, why dress a doll that small? I redress mainly for the Salvation Army Dress-a-Doll Contest. We have two choices of dolls: Barbie or one or several types of baby/toddler. I buy a few extra ethnic or pale-skinned dolls as our Barbie choice is either Caucasian or African-American and there are many Hispanic and Asian families in Omaha now. There used to be larger dolls available(I believe they were Horseman and other factory "seconds") but as the mass-market became Barbies and baby dolls, our choice of dolls to dress has come down to those types of dolls. We used to not even get real Barbies to dress--just cheaper knock-offs with shorter arms and bodies with just enough smaller bust, waist and hip measurements, that a very fitted Barbie pattern had to be adjusted to fit. I also dress porcelain dolls I make as a hobby--I take a class once a week--usually a year or more for me from cleaning the porcelain greenware to polishing, painting(can take me several separate firings plus to get things like eyebrows and eyelashes just right can take me one or more class times to assembling, inserting eyes, wigging and making the costume(I generally hand-sew)from research, assembling fabrics and trims) Second, why vinyl? and for that matter, why pale-skinned? See above for the why vinyl. For pale-skinned dolls it is because tanned skin was something real ladies avoided until about the 1920's. Until then, in Western Europe, anyway, keeping one's skin as pale as possible proved you didn't have to labor out-of-doors. And they knew even way back when that sun exposure was aging to the skin. A tan slowly started to become popular with the advent of the Industrial Revolution. As farming became mechanized and smaller farming families left farming to get jobs in the new factories in the cities, workers lost their up-to-then declasse tanned skin and became pale(and usually sick)due to working twelve or more hours at a time away from sun and fresh air. Those that could afford it, fled to coastal towms, some which developed into sizeable summer vacation spots. Slowly tanned skin switched from a sign of being poor and working outside to make a living to visable proof of being healthy and wealthy enough to have the leisure time to "develop" a tanned skin, ideally year around. Coco Chanel, either got or took the credit for making tanned skin popular and women smoking in public acceptable. That is why if I'm going to dress a doll as an Elizabethan lady or 1880's bride, I look for a paler-skinned doll. I have dressed African-American Barbies as the poet Phillis Wheatley and the self-made millionairess, Madame CJ Walker for the Salvation Army. That way, I get to try out an historical costume and do research, and a child will get a doll that reflects someone in her ethnic history. I also write up a brief biog or find and buy a child's biography on the person the doll represents While a naturally acquired tan is no longer considered healthy, of course, the idea of health=tanned skin still exists, evidenced by all of the tanning parlors and self-tanning products out there. Too much information, but that's my rationale for wanting paler skinned dolls when doing historic costuming. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 11:49:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AFnVPQ016902 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 11:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AFmKYs011973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 09:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AFmGTK031637; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:48:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31012.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31012.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4AFmDJa031476 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:48:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 94257 invoked by uid 60001); 10 May 2005 15:48:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=z4M+vP2xDBtaPcHXLoXtHlWs/EzidOzsrDbkVldPBaOZXcLN4FTuHhgDSLWTE7x8FNuWOBVQwJQOGDfbL8AeCJrT4XHH6tP+nPvOwtNOEwrHur8J+y3KS0eV9NK5JubEOp1AfEVWDLKP9ULy7xH5nmUIdL3RwH7brpON1VdBZoY= ; Message-ID: <20050510154804.94255.qmail@web31012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31012.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 08:48:04 PDT Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:48:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I told B&N to 'stuff it' and ordered direct from B&B. Amazon had done a similar thing, like B&N just did, on three different occasions over the last year or so and so I no longer do business with them and I tol B&N the same thing. I HOPE they don't go that route, but I'm so glad you all got your books! I am expecting mine by end of this week.... Chris G. Lalah wrote: I was so annoyed that I wrote B & N/ and told them. It took about five minutes to get the following reply. < Thank you for your inquiry regarding order #BN68031064. We are pleased to confirm that the cancelled item you had ordered, is now available. If you still would like to receive this item, you can place a new order at www.bn.com. If you wish, we are happy to do this for you. Simply respond to this email with your permission to charge your credit card for the item. We will honor the original price of the book>> --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 12:30:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AGUcBH017300 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:30:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AGObYs018788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 10:24:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGORgD065874; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jetspin.drizzle.com (jetspin.drizzle.com [216.162.192.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGOKgJ065773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:24:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tayla@sablerose.net) Received: from negoth (c-24-16-242-195.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [24.16.242.195]) (authenticated bits=0) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4AGOEZ4020775 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:24:15 -0700 From: "Sablerose" To: Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:27:25 -0700 Message-ID: <033501c55585$88d2e0e0$c3f21018@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since I know several of you have seen the movie, I've got a question about one of the cloak/mantles that shows up fairly often. There appears to be no clasp, just a mass or band of fabric that sits across the top of the chest/shoulders. You can see the top of this at http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0320661/KOH-19.jpg or there's a better picture about 11 in on the gallery of the www.kingdomofheavenmovie.com site, but it's all flash so I can't give you a direct link. I've seen images of this sort of cloak before, but how is it constructed? I assume it's something you pull over your head, but the 'mass of fabric at the chest seems to indicate more than one layer. Is it a circle? Any hits as to the period of such a garment? Anyone who's worn one, how functional a garment is this? Tayla, now curious. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 12:45:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AGjkPE017422 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AGdRYs021788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 10:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGcvn0080601; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:38:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGcRwS080137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:38:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4AGV2mT017326 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:31:03 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:31:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4280E37F.7020907@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 12:38:23 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question References: <033501c55585$88d2e0e0$c3f21018@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <033501c55585$88d2e0e0$c3f21018@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sablerose wrote: > Since I know several of you have seen the movie, I've got a question > about one of the cloak/mantles that shows up fairly often. There > appears to be no clasp, just a mass or band of fabric that sits across > the top of the chest/shoulders. You can see the top of this at > http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0320661/KOH-19.jpg That particular picture *could* be a separate hood over a basic cloak. However, I've seen a fair number of innovations for cloaks for medievaloid movies which I would be at a loss to support by contemporary medieval sources. Somehow a basic half or full circle cloak doesn't suit the moviemaker's idea of what things should look like, so there end up being broad bands across the chest which fasten making an H (more like a later day ecclesiastical cope) instead of them going edge-to-edge, or there's some sort of crossover going on at the neck (like for the hobbit cloaks), or other innovations. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 12:46:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AGkbC1017428 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:46:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AGjKYs022703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 10:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGjIwc086902; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:45:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGjEno086179 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:45:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j4AGiXd29362.; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:44:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:44:33 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:44:17 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK reenactment, was SCA v Renfaire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4AGjEno086179 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> otsisto@socket.net 09/05/2005 19:16 >>> wrote: >Sounds like you have Living History reinactors. They expect 100% >accuracy in all aspects of what they are recreating. Nothing mundane is >allowed to be seen by the public when reenacting. Clothing MUST be made >of materials know to have been used during the time period reenacting. I believe the SCA does exist in Britain, but most of our reenactment is by groups who put on military or living history displays (or both) for the public. It started in 1968 when historian Brig. Peter Young founded the Sealed Knot, originally so that he could see English Civil War battles acted out by live soldiers. The idea appealed to so many people that it grew into a huge society. The costumes were very amateurish at first, but have gradually improved over the years as people learned about historical patterns and realised how the common soldier would really have dressed. Many other groups of varying sizes and representing many different periods have grown up since then. I belong to a group that does Living history, as De describes, within the SK. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 12:57:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AGvuRU017516 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:57:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AGvGYs024413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 10:57:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGvEk5098729; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:57:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4AGvADq098579 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:57:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2005 16:57:04 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050510175326.015efa90@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:57:02 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK reenactment, was SCA v Renfaire In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:44 10/05/2005 +0100, you wrote: >Kate Bunting >Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> otsisto@socket.net 09/05/2005 19:16 >>> wrote: > >Sounds like you have Living History reinactors. They expect > 100% >accuracy in all aspects of what they are recreating. Nothing > mundane is >allowed to be seen by the public when reenacting. Clothing > MUST be made >of materials know to have been used during the time period > reenacting. > >I believe the SCA does exist in Britain, but most of our reenactment is by >groups who put on military or living history displays (or both) for the >public. >It started in 1968 when historian Brig. Peter Young founded the Sealed >Knot, originally so that he could see English Civil War battles acted out >by live soldiers. The idea appealed to so many people that it grew into a >huge society. The costumes were very amateurish at first, but have >gradually improved over the years as people learned about historical >patterns and realised how the common soldier would really have dressed. >Many other groups of varying sizes and representing many different periods >have grown up since then. I belong to a group that does Living history, as >De describes, within the SK. I have worked with the Sealed Knot, and yes, Kate, they have improved enormously. I went to a banquet at Eltham Palace in 1972 (?) and wore costume I had borrowed from the National Theatre. At the time it was still more authentic than anything they were wearing (apart from Sir Peter Young that is, and a few mercenaries from Germany.) It would not necessarily be so now, though. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 13:06:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AH6jc7017591 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:06:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AH5oYs025518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 11:05:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AH5kZ8007269; Tue, 10 May 2005 11:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AH5hWa007150 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 11:05:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1858449nzp for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:05:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=EVLVNkyUrWo13OPGe4rPHb0o8/Spi0wpSlQp/BpwyiY5B7b7gb7M7LA2Ccp2WA48DfUhA6h8ff05PHF36D++5p/EoNJggqygW+nrM9NTfCKiYnFpSj+NicjLnZmu7tVvqScT96OTkwf/M+E7cy9cr8oXg26Fr6MmtS09IvfGayE= Received: by 10.36.12.2 with SMTP id 2mr1632807nzl; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.12 with HTTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:05:37 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4AH5hWa007150 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>A Faire in the middle ages and renaissance usually, like 98% of the time, >>meant a gathering of people to show and sell livestock. Example: a State >Fair Plenty o'livestock on display. Watch the merchant "fleecing the sheep" sometime. I suspect with a little effort you can make many more livestock comments about any and all participants. "I wonder if she knows she looks like a cow in that..." --cin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 13:39:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AHdDhM017826 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:39:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AHcAYs029648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 11:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AHc7Gl038554; Tue, 10 May 2005 11:38:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AHc2fm038392 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 11:38:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skskaw@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050510173757014003iqg3e>; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:37:57 +0000 Received: from [24.21.113.38] by 204.127.197.118; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:37:56 +0000 From: skskaw@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Redressing dolls Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:37:56 +0000 Message-Id: <051020051737.26209.4280F17400048D90000066612200750784990E059C059C@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: c2tza2F3QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks all for the info, interesting. I think I will try the second-hand stores, but for something bigger than Barbie -- too little. SKneeland _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 14:16:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AIGsrY018025 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:16:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AIG3Ys004910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 12:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AIG12n075157; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:16:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4AIFuM7075011 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:15:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 30491 invoked by uid 60001); 10 May 2005 18:15:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20050510181551.30488.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 19:15:50 BST Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:15:50 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Channel 4 in the UK is about to run a series called 'Pioneer House' which I belive was shown last year on PBS in the US as 'Colonial House' - boring personality squabbles aside, the big question is: is the costuming worth tuning in for? I've not made anything 17C yet but am interested to see how practical/comfortable the clothing would be. Thanks Susan S. ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 14:44:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AIi4iq018173 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:44:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AIbKYs007570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 12:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AIbIVw096042; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:37:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AIbEmP095894 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:37:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709383BC89 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:37:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4280FF69.4020100@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:37:29 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? References: <20050510181551.30488.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050510181551.30488.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO katherine sanders wrote: > Hello > > Channel 4 in the UK is about to run a series called > 'Pioneer House' which I belive was shown last year on > PBS in the US as 'Colonial House' Frontier House (pioneer era) is 19th century, "wild west" era. There's a web page here: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/frontierhouse/project/ If it really is Colonial House, then... http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/ > is the costuming > worth tuning in for? When they are wearing the costumes properly they are gorgeous, but most of the time the women were only wearing shifts and the men only wearing pants and if they had shirts they were open and flapping. A very slovenly lot if you ask me. The photo gallery on the website gives a much better impression than the film footage did. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 14:52:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AIq6D4018216 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:52:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AIpKYs009455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 12:51:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AIpB6B009766; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:51:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AIp5Xl009677 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 12:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AIp2IC024729 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:51:02 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.54.47] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-54-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.54.47]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AIoxMH393400 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:51:04 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050510113039.03389908@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:31:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Redressing dolls In-Reply-To: <051020051737.26209.4280F17400048D90000066612200750784990E0 59C059C@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Thanks all for the info, interesting. I think I will try the second-hand >stores, but for something bigger than Barbie -- too little. Another problem is that the larger size dolls are thought of as "collectable", and the price can go out of the child toy range. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 15:20:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AJKPSw018431 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:20:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AJJdYs012762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 13:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AJJbZE036985; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:19:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AJJXKH036902 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:19:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id PAA12530; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:19:33 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505101919.PAA12530@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505100230.j4A2U7H0056953@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4AJJXKH036902 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] dressmaker dummy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does this group have a files or links section? I couldn't find any. I'd like a link to Robin Netherton's info on the gothic fitted gown. Does someone have it, pretty please? Julie > > If the cote is anything like Robin Netherton's gothic fitted gown > (you say it's self-supporting) I don't think you can do it justice > with a dummy. You need to see how the fabric behaves on your body, > which means you need to fit with the actual fabric. > > A corset is different. If you have the dummy made over a corset, > then you should be able to fit it that way. A corset tends to harden > the body into a solid shape, whereas the gothic fitted gown works > with a soft, natural body. > > -Carol > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 15:35:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4AJZD8Z018530 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:35:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4AJYVYs014355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 13:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AJYTZ0050905; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:34:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AJYM8W050735 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:34:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05915 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:50:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:50:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dressmaker dummy In-Reply-To: <200505101919.PAA12530@alexander.concentric.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 10 May 2005, Julie wrote: > Does this group have a files or links section? I couldn't find any. > > I'd like a link to Robin Netherton's info on the gothic fitted gown. > Does someone have it, pretty please? Julie You can find two useful files on my embryonic webpage, which exists mostly to save me the trouble of e-mailing those files! There's a handout I give out at lectures -- not meant as a stand-alone article, but it has some useful background. And more important, there's a collection of my posts to the h-cost list on the topic over several years. After you've read all that, if you have specific questions, please feel free to e-mail me directly. The URL is http://www.netherton.net/robin . --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 17:41:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ALfYiS019740 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:41:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ALesYs029460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 15:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ALeiat070039; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:40:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f13.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ALeesG069889 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 May 2005 14:40:35 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.213 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:40:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.213] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505071138.j47BcALA006661@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:40:35 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 May 2005 21:40:35.0279 (UTC) FILETIME=[E612DDF0:01C555A8] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Mom's Goop (was RE: grease on fur) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "McClure, Kate" >>BTW, there is also "Mom's Goop" which is supposed to take up stains on >>fabric. >The company is at http://www.goophandcleaner.com >Do you have any experience with this on a cotton shirt? I've just >managed my 'clever trick of the day', i.e. flipping a black flair pen >point-first into my new white embroidered blouse. *Insert sound of >grinding teeth here* I'm sorry, I've never used it. I've used the regular stuff (it's what I use to get the shoemaking "wax" off of everything), but not the "Mom's" Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 17:52:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ALq7A8019765 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:52:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ALpYYs000825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 15:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ALpSSm079994; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:51:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.primushost.com (smtp1.primushost.com [209.58.220.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ALpMbZ079821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:51:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp1.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DVcdI-0001ai-Dj; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:51:16 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for h-costume@indra.com id 1DVcYA-0007XP-00; Tue, 10 May 2005 17:45:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:45:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] possible museum closure X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am forwarding thsi from my Costume Society e-newsletter. it would be a real shame to lose this museum. Katy The following is from the Costume Society of America email newsletter. 1. TEXTILE MUSEUM THREATENED WITH CLOSURE LYNNE Z. BASSETT (New England and the Eastern Provinces Region I) provides the following report: "Rumors that the American Textile History Museum in Lowell, MA, will be closing in September are dangerously close to being the truth. Founded in 1960, the museum opened at its present site in 1997. The museum's collection of industrial textile machinery has been designated a National Heritage Collection for Mechanical Engineering, while its library holds 27,000 volumes, 50,000 images, and five million swatches of historic fabrics. The museum also owns an important collection of costume and textiles. The elegantly refurbished factory building which now houses the museum offers an impressive permanent exhibit on American textile history from domestic to factory production. The Textile Conservation Center of the ATHM is one of only three such regional conservation centers in the U.S. Unfortunately, visitation and other means of support have not been sufficient since the museum moved to Lowell and it is currently operating with a $600,000 deficit. Knowing that it cannot continue to withdraw endowment funds to meet operating expenses, the museum is exploring its options, including merging with another organization outside of New England, selling the museum building and leasing back space to continue educational activities, or permanently closing and dispersing the collections. A meeting of the board of trustees on May 20th will decide the museum's future. Please pledge your support and help get the word out to save this important museum and keep it in Lowell. It is not too late." To help, write in support of the Museum. Send your letters to Michael Smith, President, American Textile History Museum, 491 Dutton Street, Lowell, MA 01854. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 21:06:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B16NeU020941 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B15ZYs021337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 19:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B15TNV043116; Tue, 10 May 2005 19:05:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B15PLT043060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 19:05:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4B15OOp026063 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 18:05:24 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:08:45 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <20050510132811.D486A396F@sitemail.everyone.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just got my copy from Boydell and Brewer at the discount price. Not as good as B&N, but at least I've got it! Barnes and Noble are off my Christmas List. Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey "There are four things you must never do: lie, steal, cheat, or drink. But if you must lie, lie in the arms of the one you love. If you must steal, steal away from bad company. If you must cheat, cheat death. And if you must drink, drink in the moments that take your breath away." Brianne Kelly Darragh _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 21:37:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B1bbRC021123 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:37:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B1b3Ys024741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 19:37:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B1b2FV066996; Tue, 10 May 2005 19:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f27.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B1axa4066889 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 19:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 May 2005 18:36:54 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.203 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 01:36:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.203] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 01:36:53 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2005 01:36:54.0522 (UTC) FILETIME=[E98FA5A0:01C555C9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] "trousers" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is the approximate date for the Thorsbjerg and the Damendorf trousers? Would someone please point me in the right direction to learn more about these? I am trying to document trousers - my hubby is a 7th century Saxon immigrating to Britain (if immigrating is the right word for that population shift!) and I want to do as authentic an outfit as possible. I'm waiting for Gale Crocker-Owens' book to arrive at the library on interlibrary loan. Any info greatly appreciated!! Berenice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 22:05:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B25GJO021333 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:05:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B24kYs028759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 20:04:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B24iGr088110; Tue, 10 May 2005 20:04:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f35.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B24gXV088024 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 20:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 10 May 2005 19:04:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.203 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 02:04:36 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.203] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 02:04:36 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2005 02:04:36.0736 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8516000:01C555CD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IMO, the main difference: when I went to my first Ren Fair last year, a girl flitted up to me - her skin was tinted green, she was wearing some sort of gauzy "tinkerbell" costume complete with wings - and she asked me if I would like to be sprinkled with fairy dust. No tinkerbells at SCA events that I've been to!! Berenice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 23:02:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B32e7T021601 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 23:02:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B31qYs003626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 21:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B31o2p028350; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B31kBl028307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:01:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:37192 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DVhTn-0007gP-2s for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 23:01:48 -0400 Received: from 198.93.212.210 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Tue, 10 May 2005 23:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1455.198.93.212.210.1115780510.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Mom's Goop (was RE: grease on fur) From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.210 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: References: <200505071138.j47BcALA006661@net.indra.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My daughter bought a pair of white shorts at a deep discount store with a HUGE permanant marker stain on the butt. She only paid about 50 cents for them so it was worth it to try to get it out. We heard you could use hair spray, but after using the whole can, I decided that the main ingredient was alcohol, so we began using Alcohol, pouring it through the fabric and blotting the fabric and later even rubbing it. it took hours of work over the course of a couple days or even three or four. but we got that stain down to a shadow. hopefully since your stain hasn't had weeks, months or even more to set, you might get it all out. Kitty >>From: "McClure, Kate" >>>BTW, there is also "Mom's Goop" which is supposed to take up stains on >>> fabric. >>The company is at http://www.goophandcleaner.com >>Do you have any experience with this on a cotton shirt? I've just >> managed my 'clever trick of the day', i.e. flipping a black flair pen >> point-first into my new white embroidered blouse. *Insert sound of >> grinding teeth here* > > I'm sorry, I've never used it. I've used the regular stuff (it's what > I use to get the shoemaking "wax" off of everything), but not the > "Mom's" > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 10 23:59:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B3xkbA022049 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 23:59:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B3x6Ys008662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 21:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B3x5U0068825; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:59:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B3x1sJ068709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:59:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B5H0kh019482 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 01:17:06 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finally! My copy of MC&T Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:58:46 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050510154804.94255.qmail@web31012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050510154804.94255.qmail@web31012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505102358.46555.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 10 May 2005 11:48 am, Chris wrote: > I told B&N to 'stuff it' and ordered direct from B&B. Amazon had done a > similar thing, like B&N just did, on three different occasions over the > last year or so and so I no longer do business with them and I tol B&N the > same thing. I HOPE they don't go that route, but I'm so glad you all got > your books! I am expecting mine by end of this week.... B&N has shipped my book, but UPS has held it up a day. According to UPS's tracking information, I expect it tomorrow. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 00:32:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B4WlvK022148 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 00:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B4VPYs011405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 22:31:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B4VGZI091046; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:31:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B4VBDf090894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:31:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B5nCtN019981 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 01:49:13 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "trousers" Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 00:31:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505110031.01684.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 10 May 2005 9:36 pm, Laura Waack wrote: > What is the approximate date for the Thorsbjerg and the Damendorf trousers? > Would someone please point me in the right direction to learn more about > these? I don't know about the Damendorf trousers, but the Thorsbjerg trousers are estimated to be 3rd-4th century CE. There's a picture with date estimate here (log in as "guest" to see): http://slumberland.org/moodle/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=582 -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 00:33:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B4XhYF022152 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 00:33:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B4XBYs012183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 22:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B4XBlh092834; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:33:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B4X7w1092795 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:33:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.237.125] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DViuB-0002PZ-2r; Wed, 11 May 2005 00:33:07 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VgB93mruZfTwQGH/ch8QNvkJay2Fxytk51XLNK6wa9NEap6r2p589K9Dqt21q0kK; Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 20:51:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] "trousers" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47874241ab66785ff6df690684e2ff02a28709e93e8e1dbfab4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.237.125 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4B4X7w1092795 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:36 AM +0000 5/11/05, Laura Waack wrote: >What is the approximate date for the Thorsbjerg >and the Damendorf trousers? Would someone >please point me in the right direction to learn >more about these? > >I am trying to document trousers - my hubby is a >7th century Saxon immigrating to Britain (if >immigrating is the right word for that >population shift!) and I want to do as authentic >an outfit as possible. I'm waiting for Gale >Crocker-Owens' book to arrive at the library on >interlibrary loan. Any info greatly >appreciated!! So far, my surviving garments database includes five items in the general category of "northern German Migration-era trousers": two pairs from Thorsbjerg (one is much better preserved than the other), one from Damendorf, one from Dätgen, one from Marx-Etzel. Schlabow is the most extensive source I've found and the only one that covers all five (downside: it's in German; upside: lots of diagrams). Hald covers all but the more badly preserved Thorsbjerg item, but her discussion of dating has been largely superceded. Individual items are also covered in other publications, but the only ones people are likely to have access to are Farke (Damendorf trousers) and Tarrent (the better-preserved Thorsbjerg trousers). The dating of the various garments differs in different sources, but as a group they belong to around the first couple centuries CE. Parallels in art come from the Roman imperial era. References Farke, Heidemarie. 1994. "Ein zweitausendjäriges Bekleidungsstück -- Beobachtungen nach der Präsentation einer Ausstellung" in Archäologische Textilfunde -- Archaeological Textiles (NESAT Symposium 5) ed. Gisela Jaacks & Klaus Tidow. Neumünster. Hald, Margarethe. 1980. Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials. National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen. Schlabow, Karl. 1976. Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland. Karl Wachholtz Verlag, Neumünster. Tarrant, Naomi. 1994. The Development of Costume. Routledge, London. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 00:53:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B4rKkR022251 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 00:53:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B4qmYs013998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 May 2005 22:52:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B4qk0f006100; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:52:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B4qgHG006003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:52:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B6Ajnu020360 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 02:10:46 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "trousers" Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 00:52:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505110052.34780.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 10 May 2005 11:51 pm, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 1:36 AM +0000 5/11/05, Laura Waack wrote: > >What is the approximate date for the Thorsbjerg > >and the Damendorf trousers? Would someone > >please point me in the right direction to learn > >more about these? Thanks for the information, Heather; some of what you've said below (which I have not repeated) I didn't know either. Although I have a copy of NESAT 5, the Farke article is in German, and I don't read German (but at this rate I may attempt to learn it, in my nonexistent spare time....) With your brief summary, I may be able to glean a bit from the captions to the pictures with the Farke article, at least. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 02:14:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B6EgjV027181 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 02:14:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B6DpYs020489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 00:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B6Dk1j049658; Wed, 11 May 2005 00:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B6DhVe049606 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 00:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l237j.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.12.243] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DVkTX-0000K2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 10 May 2005 23:13:43 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050511004553.027330b0@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 00:52:51 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200505110433.j4B4XC9A092852@net.indra.com> References: <200505110433.j4B4XC9A092852@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Stains X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try the Clorox Bleach Pen. It lets you put just a dab of bleach - which is a gel in the pen - on a stain without having to bleach the whole item (and it's corresponding possible problems). I've removed year-old stains from tops that were mostly white (but with lots of color embroidery) with this. You dab it on just before washing (just like with the "Stain Sticks"). I put the shirt in with other colored items, and there was no problem with the bleach - after all the water comes in, it's so dilute it won't affect anything else. It also has two tip sizes - one on each end - so you can get it on a pretty tiny spot if needed. HTH, Sandy >Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:01:50 -0400 (EDT) >From: > >My daughter bought a pair of white shorts at a deep discount store with a >HUGE permanant marker stain on the butt. We heard you could >use hair spray, but after using the whole can, I decided that the main >ingredient was alcohol, so we began using Alcohol, pouring it through the >fabric and blotting the fabric and later even rubbing it. it took hours >of work over the course of a couple days or even three or four. but we >got that stain down to a shadow. hopefully since your stain hasn't had >weeks, months or even more to set, you might get it all out. > >Kitty > > >>From: "McClure, Kate" > > >>Do you have any experience with this on a cotton shirt? I've just > >> managed my 'clever trick of the day', i.e. flipping a black flair pen > >> point-first into my new white embroidered blouse. *Insert sound of > >> grinding teeth here* "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 05:39:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B9dQce015482 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 05:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B9ceYs014208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 03:38:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B9camr060477; Wed, 11 May 2005 03:38:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B9cXJw060446 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 03:38:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-212.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.212]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4B9bnY3021814 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 05:37:50 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050511022153.03312c10@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 02:24:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >IMO, the main difference: when I went to my first Ren Fair last year, a >girl flitted up to me - her skin was tinted green, she was wearing some >sort of gauzy "tinkerbell" costume complete with wings - and she asked me >if I would like to be sprinkled with fairy dust. > >No tinkerbells at SCA events that I've been to!! I used to see Conan-the-Barbarian-clones at SCA events. I was the Welcome Newcomers person at the time, and I used to re-direct them to other groups where "everyone" did that sort of thing, and they would happily go off and play with the other groups instead. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 08:49:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BCnlVb026139 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 08:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BCmPYs010974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 06:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BCmJiE076314; Wed, 11 May 2005 06:48:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BCmGek076271 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 06:48:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from [4.249.195.11] (dialup-4.249.195.11.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.195.11]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BCfHkq005831 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 05:41:18 -0700 Message-ID: <4281FF92.3070201@oldwaylane.net> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 08:50:26 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] "trousers" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Laura Waack wrote: > What is the approximate date for the Thorsbjerg and the Damendorf > trousers? Would someone please point me in the right direction to learn > more about these? Marc Carlsson has a very nice website that shows all those styles, plus a few others and discusses hosen & braies at -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 08:59:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BCxlFG026197 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 08:59:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BCxCYs011821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 06:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BCxAoU083453; Wed, 11 May 2005 06:59:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f35.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BCx7uk083378 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 06:59:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 May 2005 05:59:02 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.210 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:59:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.210] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505110433.j4B4XC9B092852@net.indra.com> From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:59:02 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2005 12:59:02.0535 (UTC) FILETIME=[348ED170:01C55629] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 307 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather (and all who replied) - THANKS!! This is exactly what I needed. Berenice So far, my surviving garments database includes five items in the general category of "northern German Migration-era trousers": two pairs from Thorsbjerg (one is much better preserved than the other), one from Damendorf, one from Dätgen, one from Marx-Etzel. Schlabow is the most extensive source I've found and the only one that covers all five (downside: it's in German; upside: lots of diagrams). Hald covers all but the more badly preserved Thorsbjerg item, but her discussion of dating has been largely superceded. Individual items are also covered in other publications, but the only ones people are likely to have access to are Farke (Damendorf trousers) and Tarrent (the better-preserved Thorsbjerg trousers). The dating of the various garments differs in different sources, but as a group they belong to around the first couple centuries CE. Parallels in art come from the Roman imperial era. References Farke, Heidemarie. 1994. "Ein zweitausendjäriges Bekleidungsstück -- Beobachtungen nach der Präsentation einer Ausstellung" in Archäologische Textilfunde -- Archaeological Textiles (NESAT Symposium 5) ed. Gisela Jaacks & Klaus Tidow. Neumünster. Hald, Margarethe. 1980. Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials. National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen. Schlabow, Karl. 1976. Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland. Karl Wachholtz Verlag, Neumünster. Tarrant, Naomi. 1994. The Development of Costume. Routledge, London. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 307 ***************************************** Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 09:35:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BDZNR2026384 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 09:35:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BDXaYs014344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 07:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BDX0l9006421; Wed, 11 May 2005 07:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BDWvrW006295 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 07:32:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j4BDWkd12305.; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:32:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:32:46 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:32:22 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: House/Colonial House Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4BDWvrW006295 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've just bought next week's "Radio Times", and it's the 17th century "Pioneer House" .(We've already seen "Frontier House" in the UK) Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com 11/05/2005 14:13 >>> If it's the one in the 1600's on the coast of Maine, the clothing looked good to me. Then again, my knowlege lies more in the 18th and 19th cent. They got their expertise and advice from Plymoth Plantation, which is held in high regard in museum circles here. And It seems to me they had the status differences between social classes in mind and made them If it's the one in the late 1800's, on the prairie, That one seemed to be a bit freer. In both of the seriers, a significant # of 20th century women were not into wearing the undergarments, particularly stays and corsets (the teens on the prairie ran wild in just their shifts.), but on the whole the participants wore the garments as clothing, not costumes. Mia in CHarlotte, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 10:19:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BEJOGx027340 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 10:19:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BDDSYs012795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 07:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BDDRxs092862; Wed, 11 May 2005 07:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.223]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4BDDNCl092750 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 07:13:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 64967 invoked by uid 60001); 11 May 2005 13:13:18 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=zBfxiR0o8tkCQiR8KcoIzeVb9kRAgeHLqqHt+SNMmwMsikeufELWfIdOZajpe0s+WqeeRjzngBhqEEkDQ9IAQN0+qH4p/au6MfFfw2y0CcacY6TJqc8uSHhKi72y93ZCoGMqvzQkJW4Ck2yiUz7J23WUPugInzt5lzQOS4e7tnE= ; Message-ID: <20050511131318.64965.qmail@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 06:13:18 PDT Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 06:13:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200505110433.j4B4XC9B092852@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: House/Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's the one in the 1600's on the coast of Maine, the clothing looked good to me. Then again, my knowlege lies more in the 18th and 19th cent. They got their expertise and advice from Plymoth Plantation, which is held in high regard in museum circles here. And It seems to me they had the status differences between social classes in mind and made them If it's the one in the late 1800's, on the prairie, That one seemed to be a bit freer. In both of the seriers, a significant # of 20th century women were not into wearing the undergarments, particularly stays and corsets (the teens on the prairie ran wild in just their shifts.), but on the whole the participants wore the garments as clothing, not costumes. Mia in CHarlotte, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 10:39:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BEdPoP027567 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 10:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BEcmYs022624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 08:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BEcj8Y056738; Wed, 11 May 2005 08:38:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BEcgB6056680 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 08:38:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from sheryl.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-110-126.kc.res.rr.com [65.30.110.126]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j4BEcWSE003939 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 09:38:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050511093351.00a1dd60@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 09:51:37 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for makeup In-Reply-To: <428032CE.7090304@reddawn.net> References: <200505072034.08511.cathy@thyrsus.com> <427D4253.8080506@reddawn.net> <200505072034.08511.cathy@thyrsus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:04 PM 5/9/05 -0500, Dawn wrote: >The gold powder suggestions really give me ideas. I think I can find gold >leaf easier than I can find gold lipstick. Be careful about gold leaf. Most "gold" leafs are composition metals and not for use around the mouth. 24 K gold is safe because it's edible, but there is the cost factor. If you're looking for gold *powder* try gold mica. Mica is the stuff that's used in pearl lipsticks to give it that shimmer. Gold mica is sold for polymer clay artists and soapmakers. It's a VERY concentrated gold powder. I've used it on my lips before mixed with lip balm or gloss. I get mine from "From Nature With Love". Reasonable prices and they have a whole range of mica colors as well as D&C and FD&C powdered colors. Maybe you could use one of these for the red eyeshadow. The web site tells which items are approved for use on lips and eyes. A lot of their red micas are approved for use around the eyes. http://www.from-nature-with-love.com/soap/ColorAdd.asp > > try US Toy at 103rd and State Line. > >If their hours didn't suck I'd have been there already. :) They're next >on my list of places to look, though. I know....terrible hours. But it's the only place in KC to find some of the stuff they carry. They carry Mehron's Paradise AQ facepaints. If all else fails in the search for red eyeshadow, try these. US Toy sells the refills packs, so you can just get the red for $8 or $9. Of course, they go on like watercolor paints, but they usually last very well. I paint my face with them and then go all day at the Renaissance Festival. Unless you dunk your head in water or start rubbing your eyes, it'll stay on. Sheryl N-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 11:41:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BFfm2x028592 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 11:41:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BFeuYs029609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 09:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BFen2b007647; Wed, 11 May 2005 09:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f18.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BFei75007521 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 09:40:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 May 2005 08:40:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.205 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 15:40:39 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.205] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 01:40:39 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2005 15:40:39.0486 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8641DE0:01C5563F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, There is a rumour in the German dark age communities that the Thorsberg trousers (the better preserved ones) have been redated by C14 to the 6th/7th century. I have so far been unable to establish any truth in this rumour. Nevertheless, there are finds from Haithabu (Hedeby, Northern Germany) dating from the 10th century (pure Viking Age) with *exactly* the same pattern for a pair of trousers. The missing bits are the trouser legs and feet, but the existant remains of the leg parts indicate they were wide, not narrow as in the Thorsberg trousers. The rest of the pattern (crotchpieces, bum, waistband, beltloops etc) were not only the same pattern, they were almost the exact same measurements as well. The pattern seems to have been preserved (at least in Northern Germany) for a few centuries then...... Hope this helps, Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 14:08:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BI8tWd031455 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:08:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BI86Ys018732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 12:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BI81vF030180; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc3-s5.bay6.hotmail.com (omc3-s5.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.249.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BI7vrv030068 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.92]) by omc3-s5.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 11 May 2005 11:07:52 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 May 2005 11:06:47 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV20.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:06:47 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Tight jeans was: Re: [h-cost] Re: comfort Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:06:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2005 18:06:47.0839 (UTC) FILETIME=[32BC9AF0:01C55654] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > To me, very little is less comfortable than tight > jeans. I don't know how anyone can stand to wear them. I only buy tight-fitting jeans when I find a pair that *really* fits (and I have to try about 30 pairs before that happens)... Stretchy fabrics help tremendously. Especially if you have to bend down or kneel during the day ;-P Maybe I'm weird, but tight jeans comfort me the way a corset does. I enjoy the feeling of having something holding my body. A backpack has the same effect, too. Or a wide watch bracelet. The only thing I really love to be free is my feet. Too bad there's so much snow in the winter here... And a bonus to tight-fitting jeans... I like to know guys can enjoy the view. Baggy pants just don't do it (and that's true for men, too... I always hate the baggy pants look on men, because... well... it looks like the poor guys have a void instead of a butt... :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 14:23:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BIN1oT031621 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BIMYYs020484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 12:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIMNIB042551; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:22:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIMEuc042278 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.229]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050511182206.OZJN19201.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 13:22:06 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511124310.02a13ec0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:21:10 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would appreciate a bit of guidance on women's underthings, specifically shifts/ smocks/ chemise and it's evolution from early (6th century) to late (16th century). The questions revolve around whether they were a holdover in simplified form (basic cut) of an earlier style of outer garment, were derived from contemporary fashion or evolved independently (ie. how did they change with the styles) and the issue of regional variants? Can their evolution be traced from the Coptic tunics that were manufactured and traded as "off the rack" garments in late Roman times? I realize that this is a complicated subject, with no simple answers and little existing evidence, but what are your views? Pointers to useful references and/or artwork would be particularly helpful. Other than the late smocks in the V&A, I have found very little on the subject. Thanks. Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 14:37:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BIbMDA031810 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:37:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BIajYs022521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 12:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIaiBX054282; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:36:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81605.mail.yahoo.com (web81605.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4BIabYW054138 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:36:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from valkyerie@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20050511183632.31109.qmail@web81605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [199.217.251.186] by web81605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 11:36:32 PDT Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:36:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Rachel Hillen To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Deadwood costuming X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For anyone interested the costume designer for HBO's Deadwood, a series that takes place in a Dakota territory mining camp in the 1870's has a feature on the website showing some of the costuming inspiration for the show. It's definitely in layman's terms but if nothing else it's lovely eye candy. Here is the link. http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/behind/sets_and_costumes/costumes.html "Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair or f*ckin' beatings. The world ends when your dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man and give some back" -Al Swearingen, Deadwood _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 14:40:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BIeRY7031862 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:40:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BIdmYs023031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 12:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIdklI056803; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIdgmT056749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-254.sonic.net [209.148.114.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIdcl8005233 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 11:39:39 -0700 Message-ID: <4282516E.1050305@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:39:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511124310.02a13ec0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511124310.02a13ec0@mail.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a wonderful little book on this topic titled _Cut My Cote_, by Dorothy Burnham, published by the Royal Ontario Museum. It includes patterns taken from historic shirts and shifts, as well as a dicussion of the evolution of cut. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > I would appreciate a bit of guidance on women's underthings, > specifically shifts/ smocks/ chemise and it's evolution from early > (6th century) to late (16th century). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 15:56:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BJuvOm032668 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 15:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BJu4Ys002363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 13:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BJttMr015892; Wed, 11 May 2005 13:55:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BJtp8i015842 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 13:55:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.119.170.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.119.170]) by pop-a065c10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DVxJ8-0003Or-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:55:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200505101801.j4AI0vnT060539@net.indra.com> References: <200505101801.j4AI0vnT060539@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:55:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent wrote: >That particular picture *could* be a separate hood over a basic cloak. >However, I've seen a fair number of innovations for cloaks for >medievaloid movies which I would be at a loss to support by contemporary >medieval sources. > >Somehow a basic half or full circle cloak doesn't suit the moviemaker's >idea of what things should look like, so there end up being broad bands >across the chest which fasten making an H (more like a later day >ecclesiastical cope) instead of them going edge-to-edge, or there's some >sort of crossover going on at the neck (like for the hobbit cloaks), or >other innovations. Actually, the costumer just shopped in the local souq and bought available men's wool selham. The sewn part that keeps the cloak on is traditional in Morocco and Algeria, and not a costumer's innovation. I make no claims for the 12th century Levant,. Many of the people in the film, especially but not limited to extras, were wearing locally available modern Moroccan garments, which is hardly surprising since much of the movie was filmed in southern Morocco. The costuming kept me shuddering during my viewing of the film, but after mentioning two or three serious gaffs i kept my mouth shut . The "center" of the Moroccan film industry as available to American and European film makers is the quiet dusty city of Ouarzazat, which i can only guess is not so quiet when foreign filmakers are in town. I passed through Ouarzazat in January 2001 on my way to visit sand dunes in Merzouga with my daughter. She had spent a semester abroad at the university in Rabat and the Americans in that group had visited the sand dunes in Zagora in the fall of 2000. Morocco is actually not full of sand dunes, which are in fact a great disaster. The government is attempting to halt desertification, while keeping a few locations since they are a tourist attraction - for some reason many people think that Morocco is full of sand dunes and/or that deserts consist of sand dunes - and important for the film industry. On our way out of Merzouga, i picked up two young French hitch hikers. After mentioning that we were from California, the young woman said that the landscape must be very different from CA. I said there were deserts in California and she very clearly did not believe me, having another common stereotype, that California is all sunny palm-tree lined beaches, which even many Americans hold. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 16:33:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BKXwI5000921 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 16:33:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BKXHYs007549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 14:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BKX7uR045748; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BKX26w045677 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.119.170.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.119.170]) by pop-a065b10.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DVxt6-0000Pw-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 May 2005 13:33:01 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:32:49 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "mischele1" >I just saw Kingdom of Heaven and am wondering about the costumes >that the leading actress wore. They were so beautiful. >I would like to make something for an Arabian Nights event and am >wondering how accurate they would be for referance. Near and Middle Eastern clothing is one of my major areas of research. Princess Sibylla's clothing was pure fantasy. And she was wearing *silver* jewelry in some scenes! Tsk, tsk, tsk. She was a ferkin' *princess*, fer cryin' out load. She'd never stoop to wearing silver. Not to mention that the silver Indian necklace the costumer had pinned to her veil looked stoooopid. And when she was wearing gold jewlery, it was mostly very obviously modern Indian. Even *i* can find peri-oid jewelry - i don't have their budget. I shuddered at the women's costumes throughout the film. Nothing even vaguely approached the clothing worn in any century, well, outside of a 21st c. film. Fantasy, fantasy, all is fantasy. The Muslim men's costuming was better. A rare few were actually really good (the best was on the younger advisor to Salah al-Din, played by Khaled El Nabawy - a dark tunic with gold writing (Tiraz) on the upper arm), some was somewhat fantasy (like what Salah al-Din was wearing - what's with the silver mylar in the scarf?), and some was pathetic, like some male extras in the standard blue tunics that illegal guides wear to lure unsuspecting tourists in Morocco where those scenes were filmed. Most of the armor was fabulous. I cannot speak for what the Franji wore, not my area of study. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 16:46:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BKkZXT001057 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 16:46:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BKjiYs009070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 14:45:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BKjgf6055193; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:45:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BKjcjV055152 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:45:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-212.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.212]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BKisY1014637 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 16:44:55 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050511131014.024d8e00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:27:13 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511124310.02a13ec0@mail.alltel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I would appreciate a bit of guidance on women's underthings, specifically >shifts/ smocks/ chemise and it's evolution from early (6th century) to >late (16th century). > >The questions revolve around whether they were a holdover in simplified >form (basic cut) of an earlier style of outer garment, were derived from >contemporary fashion or evolved independently (ie. how did they change >with the styles) and the issue of regional variants? Can their evolution >be traced from the Coptic tunics that were manufactured and traded as "off >the rack" garments in late Roman times? I realize that this is a >complicated subject, with no simple answers and little existing evidence, >but what are your views? > >Pointers to useful references and/or artwork would be particularly >helpful. Other than the late smocks in the V&A, I have found very little >on the subject. Go for a book called _Cut My Cote_. It shows many centuries of garments, and undergarments, using variations of a simple rectangles-and-triangles cut. Certainly those late smocks in the V&A all use variations of this cut. The exact shape of the neckline will vary depending on what the fashionable dress neckline is doing. The exact fullness of sleeve will vary depending on what width the fashionable dress sleeves have. And there are a couple of different ways to do an underarm gusset. But I'd say all of these were cut really similarly, especially when contrasted with how the corresponding outer garments were cut. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 19:26:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BNQ4H4002076 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:26:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BNPAYs027056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 17:25:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BNOxhT071275; Wed, 11 May 2005 17:25:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BNOpn8071182 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 17:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19955 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 17:41:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 17:41:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gothic fitted gown In-Reply-To: <200505112156.RAA19833@alexander.concentric.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote me separately to tell me she'd meant to direct that note privately, but since she asked the questions on the list, I figured I should answer on-list. On Wed, 11 May 2005, Julie wrote: > I found your site yesterday by Googling. Also found photos of a class > you taught with fitting & everything. I printed those too . Do be aware that the photos from that workshop were not meant to be a "tutorial," though I have heard people calling it that -- which can be a problem. (I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to learn to fit the dress based on some snapshots of a workshop!) > I had a friend help me make a fitted gown. It is very uncomfortable > around the armhole. Another person said that that's just the way > clothing was then. I find that very hard to believe. It was made > center front lacing and straight grain up the center front. You > looked great in the one you were wearing - complete with white > tippets. Are you comfortable all day? I thought medieval clothing > would be more comfortable than a bodice. Yes, I'm comfortable all day in that outfit -- which actually is two lined fitted dresses over a chemise! Without knowing more about your dress, I can't be certain what your armhole problem is, but there are a handful of possibilities. It's a common error to cut the armhole too low. It should be right up against your underarm, like a second skin. However, the usual problem this causes isn't so much discomfort, but more often difficulty raising the arm. The same thing happens if the sleeve cap is too high -- it should be rather shallow. Since you talk about discomfort, I'm guessing something is interfering with the flexibility of the armhole opening. There are several factors that might contribute to tightness or "cutting" around the armhole. 1. Are you using natural fibers in a flexible but strong weave? Linen and wool should stretch nicely most of the way around the armhole. Silk can be harder but is workable. Rayon usually isn't a problem. Cotton can be a royal pain. Anything synthetic may cause a great deal of trouble. 2. Did you stitch too tightly? Even the most flexible fabric can't stretch with your body movement if it's locked in with poly thread or tight stitching. I use natural-fiber thread (usually cotton) with a tiny bit of zigzag (just enough to look drunken) if I'm doing it by machine, but it's even better hand-stitched with some "give" to the stitching. 3. Did you trim and clip your seam closely? If you didn't, the allowance will bind. 4. Do you have too many seam allowances piled up in one spot? This can create a pressure point or bulk that can interfere with movement. 5. Did you place your armhole seam right around the "crease" of the joint, where your arm meets your body? If not, it won't bend where you bend. If none of these is the obvious explanation, give me some more detail on the nature and location of the discomfort, and the materials and layers of the dress, and we'll try to figure it out. > At a recent SCA class the instructor presented evidence of these gowns > being cut on the bias. I haven't tried that out but I'm fairly > certain that there were more of these gowns cut straight grain than on > the bias just based on portraits. I'd sure love to see this evidence. The only indication I've seen of anything of the sort are the occasional examples of decorative particolor plaids, which appear to occur only in certain places and contexts that I would not generalize to routine wear by middle and upper-class women in Western Europe. Please note those qualifications -- images of outcasts, jongleurs, and men are not good sources for typical women's wear, and anything happening in Spain and Italy should not be taken unquestioningly as evidence for practices in France, England, the Low Countries, and Germany. I frankly can't see any reasonable way that bias construction would have derived from the preceding known cuts and/or led into any of the cuts that followed in this line of evolution of garment construction. And from a practical standpoint, bias cutting won't give you the support and structure that makes the gown "work," and will likely create a real mess on the lacing opening. I'm open to hearing a good argument for it ... but from what I've seen so far, I really don't think there's anything out there to support that idea. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 19:38:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4BNcu3M002124 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:38:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4BLvsYs017768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 15:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BLvcuE011692; Wed, 11 May 2005 15:57:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BLugR9011026 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 15:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id RAA19833; Wed, 11 May 2005 17:56:41 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505112156.RAA19833@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:56:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505110433.j4B4XC9B092852@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4BLugR9011026 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gothic fitted gown X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I'd like a link to Robin Netherton's info on the gothic fitted gown. > > Does someone have it, pretty please? Julie > > You can find two useful files on my embryonic webpage, which exists mostly > to save me the trouble of e-mailing those files! There's a handout I give > out at lectures -- not meant as a stand-alone article, but it has some > useful background. And more important, there's a collection of my posts to > the h-cost list on the topic over several years. After you've read all > that, if you have specific questions, please feel free to e-mail me > directly. > > The URL is http://www.netherton.net/robin . > > --Robin Cool! You're actually on this site. I found your site yesterday by Googling. Also found photos of a class you taught with fitting & everything. I printed those too . I had a friend help me make a fitted gown. It is very uncomfortable around the armhole. Another person said that that's just the way clothing was then. I find that very hard to believe. It was made center front lacing and straight grain up the center front. You looked great in the one you were wearing - complete with white tippets. Are you comfortable all day? I thought medieval clothing would be more comfortable than a bodice. At a recent SCA class the instructor presented evidence of these gowns being cut on the bias. I haven't tried that out but I'm fairly certain that there were more of these gowns cut straight grain than on the bias just based on portraits. 1. What do you think about the gowns being bias? 2. Any ideas what could be wrong with the armhole of my gown - fitting tips, etc.? Thanks Julie in San Diego AKA Julia de Figueiredo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:24:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0OOue002291 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:24:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0FiYs001382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0FgQq098079; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:15:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-05.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4C0FbLp098012 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:15:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 10360 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 00:15:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.3.169) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 12 May 2005 00:15:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:22:12 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] German 1900s House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been watching the German 1900 House - its fascinating and I love the clothing! Their main focus is on the servants so far with a bit of a look at the family when necessary. If you're in Australia, you can watch it on DW _TV on Monday nights at 10:30pm - they do the english version then. Warmest Regards, Aylwen Garden ------------------------------------------------------------------ ~ custom made historical reproduction clothing ~ http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/costume.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:28:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0SvTT002308 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:28:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0SBYs002681 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0S6ae004429; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:28:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ACoDh4075217 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 06:50:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j4ACo2d09704.; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:50:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 10 May 2005 13:50:02 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:49:47 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/875/Tue May 10 05:27:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4ACoDh4075217 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> otsisto@socket.net 09/05/2005 23:32 >>> wrote: >A Faire in the middle ages and renaissance usually, like 98% of the time, >meant a gathering of people to show and sell livestock. Not necessarily livestock - what about "hiring fairs" where servants looked for new jobs? The entertainment/sale-of-fancy-goods aspect always existed, to judge from nursery rhymes etc., but has only gradually become the main purpose of the event. ______________________________________________ ________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:33:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0XKJB002336 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0WZYs003129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:32:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0WYdf006937; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:32:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGThtk070787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:29:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-29.sonic.net [209.148.114.29]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AGTflk032638 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 09:29:41 -0700 Message-ID: <4280E176.5080200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:29:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines References: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com> <000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> In-Reply-To: <000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've worked for consumer magazines, as a staff editor as well as (later) a freelance journalist, for several years, including some textile arts publications. I've also done some freelance rewrite editing for academic journals. Both types of publications usually rely heavily (indeed, often mostly) on means of support other than their readers' purchases of subscriptions and single issues. While many academic journals include some advertising, often they are published by organizations and are supported primarily by the organization's membership fees. Possibly grants can play a part, I don't know. Academic journals often don't pay their writers, because those writers are looking primarily for professional exposure. The chief editors (people who chose the articles, did some editing on some articles, found any staff needed, and supervised production) for the two journals I mostly worked for, also didn't get paid. They were working for professional exposure. Also, they enjoyed editing and could afford to do it free because they were supported by their other work. Although grad students and such are sometimes recruited to do free work, some people do have to get paid--I was paid the going rates for my editorial work. And priniting has to be paid for. There are real costs. But many academic journals can afford to price themselves high, if purchased beyond a membership. They are specialized, must-have publications for a small but significant number of professionals in a field, and for libraries (college libraries in particular). Consumer magazines, however, have to hire professionals for all their content and production--and pay the full costs of same. Furthermore, subscribers have much higher expectations in terms of glitz. By glitz I mean things like high-quality color photos, instead of competent but unshowy line art and b/w photos illustrating technical points. Provocative layouts that have lots of variety and retain the reader's interest in every page. Pull-out quotes, uneven length columns, illos with text flowing around them, things like that. Glossy paper. A glitzy cover that catches the eye on a newsstand. All this costs money. At the same time, consumers expect magazines to be cheap, a few dollars per issue. That's what's been usual for many years because: Consumer magazines are supported primarily by their advertising sales. The number of subscribers is important, because it dictates how much advertisers are willing to pay the magazine for ads (how many eyeballs they expect to capture). But the ad sales are where the money comes from. This also, BTW, is how those smaller neighborhood newspapers can afford to dump free issues on your lawn every week. They're making their money off ads. In order to tell advertisers their newspaper has X number of readers, they deliver it free. Now things are changing, and I can't predict what the outcome will be. But I suspect many good, commercially produced magazines with large subscriber lists are making less money because: The Internet is impacting ad sales. I think particularly the sales of classifieds and small display ads, because their number is definitely shrinking in magazines I subscribe to. Although these individually cost less than full-page four-color ads (which can cost several thousand dollars apiece, and which sell to advertisers with that kind of money), these smaller ads add up to significant revenue. The thing is, almost any business or individual can put up a website of (at least) several pages, in full color, for a year or two, for less money than one appearance of one small ad in one magazine. Anybody can post their links on email lists, do link exchanges with dozens of other sites, and otherwise publicize their website for no cost except their time. Some magazines (and newspapers) are countering by selling advertising on their own websites, as well as in the magazine. This may be working to supply the missing revenue. But still, as above, anybody can get free links; and to many this may seem more worthwhile than paying for them on a magazine's site. A startup magazine has a hard time of it in any case. (I was a staff editor for one startup consumer magazine, and the atmosphere was much like working for a software startup, which I've also done when I was a technical writer.) For one thing, advertisers have always been reluctant to buy ads in a magazine with no track record and a very thin subscriber list. Like the neighborhoods newspapers I mentioned above, they sometimes send out the first issue free, hoping it will induce subscribers to invest in a magazine with no previous track record; and thereby attract more advertisers by having more subscribers. But this takes substantial cash. And a consumer magazine is under constant pressure from both advertisers and subscribers to produce every issue promised right on schedule, not even a few days late. It looks bad if they don't, it looks bad if an issue is thinner. It's a high-pressure, high-risk business. So while I agree that it would be very nice to have a good costume consumer magazine, this is not a great climate for starting one. Not that no one should do it, but I wouldn't touch the project with the proverbial ten-foot pole. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:35:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0ZF36002351 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:35:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0Y3Ys003340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:34:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0Y3pE007838; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:34:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jetspin.drizzle.com (jetspin.drizzle.com [216.162.192.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4AH1fVd003452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 11:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tayla@sablerose.net) Received: from altra4 (tide517.microsoft.com [131.107.0.87]) (authenticated bits=0) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4AH1WTC030908 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 10:01:33 -0700 Message-ID: <029e01c55581$ef76a740$d00668c6@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: "Sablerose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <033501c55585$88d2e0e0$c3f21018@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <4280E37F.7020907@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:01:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I *think* I've seen similar things depicted in medieval art, but I'll have to dig around and see if I can come up with them. Thanks! Tayla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > Sablerose wrote: > >> Since I know several of you have seen the movie, I've got a question >> about one of the cloak/mantles that shows up fairly often. There >> appears to be no clasp, just a mass or band of fabric that sits across >> the top of the chest/shoulders. You can see the top of this at >> http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0320661/KOH-19.jpg > > That particular picture *could* be a separate hood over a basic cloak. > However, I've seen a fair number of innovations for cloaks for medievaloid > movies which I would be at a loss to support by contemporary medieval > sources. > > Somehow a basic half or full circle cloak doesn't suit the moviemaker's > idea of what things should look like, so there end up being broad bands > across the chest which fasten making an H (more like a later day > ecclesiastical cope) instead of them going edge-to-edge, or there's some > sort of crossover going on at the neck (like for the hobbit cloaks), or > other innovations. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:35:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0ZUsU002356 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:35:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0YrYs003515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0YqO8008462; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ALOWoH054708 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 15:24:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.205.142 (unknown[204.127.205.160](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050510212425011000jobue>; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:24:25 +0000 Received: from [216.204.33.43] by 204.127.205.142; Tue, 10 May 2005 21:24:24 +0000 From: lauren.walker@comcast.net To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:24:24 +0000 Message-Id: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: bGF1cmVuLndhbGtlckBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Good irons? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I'm in the market for a new electric steam iron. My old one is a lovely shade of "Harvest Gold", which tells you how old it is, plus, about 10 years ago I melted the lid of a yogurt container on the base plate. Anyway I have been squinting at the Consumer Reports listings, but I get the feeling CR's testers don't actually iron that much, as their criteria are kind of weird. So their first choice is a Black and Decker model that the user reviews on Amazon.com found unreliable and problematic. Thus, I turn to you: has anybody got an iron to recommend? I use mine for three things: to iron existing clothes; to press seams, edges, and other tricky parts when constructing garments, and sometimes to put a little gentle fulling onto handwoven wools. How these purposes align with CR's "Ironing" "Steaming" and "Glide" is a little unclear. Also everybody seems to hate an iron that drips water on clothes at lower temperatures, but given the nature of steam and condensation I'm not sure ! there's a whole lot a manufacturer can do to prevent it. Anyway, your advice gratefully entertained. Best, Lauren Walker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:39:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0diL0002384 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:39:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0d9Ys004020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0d85v010728; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B40hQ4070016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:00:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4B5Il60019513 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 01:18:48 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 00:00:37 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <008e01c55406$f17830d0$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505110000.37832.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 10 May 2005 12:20 am, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 3:48 PM -0400 5/8/05, Linda Rice wrote: > >Hi~! > > > >I don't know of any hard evidence for pants in England in the 12th > >century. We do know that some > >Viking cultures had pants (Thorsbjerg, for example) but we aren't > >even sure about a lot of details > > Sorry for jumping on one of my pet bugaboos, but the Thorsbjerg pants > (and others in the same type-group, such as the Damendorf trousers) > date roughly to the first couple of centuries CE and can't really be > called "Viking", even stretching the term seriously. RIght. I pointed out the same thing. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:39:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0di75002385 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:39:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0d1Ys003970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0d1wb010602; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0cv2x010524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:38:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1v6Th012203 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:57:06 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:38:47 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505112038.47698.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Got my copy of Medieval Costume & Textiles today! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In fact, I'm reading Robin's article now. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:40:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0e52N002393 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:40:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0dRYs004093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0dR4H010936; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B4X7h3092794 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:33:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.237.125] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DViuB-0002PZ-2r; Wed, 11 May 2005 00:33:07 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VgB93mruZfTwQGH/ch8QNvkJay2Fxytk51XLNK6wa9NEap6r2p589K9Dqt21q0kK; Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 20:51:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] "trousers" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47874241ab66785ff6df690684e2ff02a286ea0ee7717ea1c06350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.237.125 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4B4X7h3092794 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:36 AM +0000 5/11/05, Laura Waack wrote: >What is the approximate date for the Thorsbjerg >and the Damendorf trousers? Would someone >please point me in the right direction to learn >more about these? > >I am trying to document trousers - my hubby is a >7th century Saxon immigrating to Britain (if >immigrating is the right word for that >population shift!) and I want to do as authentic >an outfit as possible. I'm waiting for Gale >Crocker-Owens' book to arrive at the library on >interlibrary loan. Any info greatly >appreciated!! So far, my surviving garments database includes five items in the general category of "northern German Migration-era trousers": two pairs from Thorsbjerg (one is much better preserved than the other), one from Damendorf, one from Dätgen, one from Marx-Etzel. Schlabow is the most extensive source I've found and the only one that covers all five (downside: it's in German; upside: lots of diagrams). Hald covers all but the more badly preserved Thorsbjerg item, but her discussion of dating has been largely superceded. Individual items are also covered in other publications, but the only ones people are likely to have access to are Farke (Damendorf trousers) and Tarrent (the better-preserved Thorsbjerg trousers). The dating of the various garments differs in different sources, but as a group they belong to around the first couple centuries CE. Parallels in art come from the Roman imperial era. References Farke, Heidemarie. 1994. "Ein zweitausendjäriges Bekleidungsstück -- Beobachtungen nach der Präsentation einer Ausstellung" in Archäologische Textilfunde -- Archaeological Textiles (NESAT Symposium 5) ed. Gisela Jaacks & Klaus Tidow. Neumünster. Hald, Margarethe. 1980. Ancient Danish Textiles from Bogs and Burials. National Museum of Denmark, Copenhagen. Schlabow, Karl. 1976. Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland. Karl Wachholtz Verlag, Neumünster. Tarrant, Naomi. 1994. The Development of Costume. Routledge, London. Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:40:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0e9Vx002396 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:40:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0dXYs004116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0dXeT011000; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4B5uI4x041063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 23:56:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4B5uHOp025427 for ; Tue, 10 May 2005 22:56:17 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] UK reenactment, was SCA v Renfaire Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 22:59:37 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate, Great Britain is in the SCA Kingdom of Drachenwald as the Principality of Insula Draconis. It is a very active group with a number of smaller groups all over it. Check out: http://www.drachenwald.sca.org/groups/isles.htm As a Founding Member of the Kingdom of Drachenwald I've always loved the time I spent over there. Costuming has gotten much better for some. An incredible amount of new information on all topics of medieval life have come into print and public knowledge over the last 20 years. Much of it has been published because there is the large SCA/re-enactor/living history public. Some pretty impressive scholarship is being done by non-academic members (and academic ones as well. It's funny to see SCA names I know posting as full professors on academic lists.) For me the biggest draw of the SCA over true living history groups is the opportunity to be more than the resident camp follower/kitchen slut/middle class woman. In the SCA you can play the high-born lady and exercise power. I don't play a peasant or middle class. Why should I want to fantasize myself into what I am in real life? :-) Most of the living history groups (which we definitely are not! Nor are we re-enactors, being the History for Fun group with a heavy sprinkling of independent scholars) seem to be organized around martial scenes with the guys going out and whanging on each other. They allow the girlies along to cook the food, and cheer on the brave and bonny hosts. The men get all the direction posts and the ladies can stay in the background and tend to their knitting, or naalbinding. I read about some of the other re-enactments (Kenilworth?) that aren't exactly that way, but in the SCA I can be a Queen or a Princess, Baroness or Peeress and I can make a difference in the way the group goes. The fighter who tries to pat me on the head and send me back to my corner will draw back a bloody stump :-) The SCA is just my cup of tea. Your mileage will definitely vary! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey > I believe the SCA does exist in Britain, but most of our > reenactment is by groups who put on military or living history > displays (or both) for the public. > It started in 1968 when historian Brig. Peter Young founded the > Sealed Knot, originally so that he could see English Civil War > battles acted out by live soldiers. The idea appealed to so many > people that it grew into a huge society. The costumes were very > amateurish at first, but have gradually improved over the years > as people learned about historical patterns and realized how the > common soldier would really have dressed. Many other groups of > varying sizes and representing many different periods have grown > up since then. I belong to a group that does Living history, as > De describes, within the SK. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:40:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0eSrv002400 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:40:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0djYs004172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0di6N011178; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BAIMlk083614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 04:18:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4BAAsmT030082 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 06:10:54 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 06:10:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4281DBE5.7000705@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 06:18:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A bit more on the trousers guy X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO He resurfaced, but it's clear to me that he's not open to really discussing it, so I'm not going to try and pursue it; he'll just feel beat-upon, and that won't be of any use to anyone. "As a further example, jogging pants are actually authentic. People have been wearing loose-fitting cotton breeches with drawstrings since pre-Roman times. You show up wearing nothing but jogging pants, and you're a completely authentic Celt." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:44:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0iBtC002418 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:44:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0hXYs004702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:43:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0hWHt013476; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:43:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BHLI1Y090345 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 11:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24049 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:21:15 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Redressing dolls Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:19:38 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Redressing dolls Thread-Index: AcVVkUWo4FckHy0uSKOZqP3UZyPZ9QAuWzJw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4BHLI1Y090345 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn: >Thanks all for the info, interesting. I think I will try the >second-hand stores, but for something bigger than Barbie -- too little. Thanks for the thanks on the info I shared. Barbie is too little(just try fitting the multi-layer sleeves of the 1530s-1540s on these dolls), but patterns to tweak and redesign are readily out there and cheap during pattern sales at stores like Hancock Fabrics and JoAnns Fabrics and Crafts. I now collect some of the 16" tall fashion dolls, like Tyler Wentworth, but these girls aren't cheap. Years ago, Toys R Us had a line of quality dolls for girls called "Young Lady So Beautiful." They were about 15" tall,and made of a nice vinyl and built a lot like the larger Salvation Army issue lady-type dolls I remember as a child. The hair was wigged not rooted and the eyes were a glastic, type of very good quality. Hair, eye and outfit colors and styles varied. They retailed originally for $30 apiece and I scooped up four when the line was discontinued after a year at $10 each. Regretfully now, I dressed one in an 1880's style ball gown(complete with bustle pad underneath) in white as a bride and donated her to the Salvation Army, thinking I could pick up more of these dolls some other time. She was great fun to dress as she had rather realistic proportions--about double body measurements of a Barbie, so I could do a lot of detail work and use larger scale fabrics--actually they were still pretty small scale on the doll. Took a peek at your website--Miranda Goshawk, huh? A co-worker and I dressed as Hermione and Miranda for about four years every Halloween at work. I actually visualize Miranda as a 16th or 17th century lady whose "Standard Books of Spells series" has been required reading at Hogwarts for the last 300-400 years. Would love to know her real history from JK Rowling. I hope she does a book on how she created the world of Harry Potter--I've seen a couple of specials that have shown her own notes and illustrations, so such a book would be such fun. Cindy Abel, ILL Coordinator hslill@creighton.edu CUMC Health Sciences Library Creighton University 2500 California Omaha NE 68178-0210 402-280-5144 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:44:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0iAbj002415 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:44:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0hfYs004746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0hfTe013547; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:43:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BHOtQt093426 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 11:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF85E3BCA6 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:24:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42824002.1020309@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:25:22 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] history of the necktie X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband found this, it's a pop-culture history of the necktie. http://www.twilightbridge.com/hobbies/festivals/father/necktie.htm Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:44:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0ie5D002423 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:44:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0hoYs004777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:43:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0ho5X013622; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:43:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f16.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BHr9Xj018005 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 11:53:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 May 2005 10:53:03 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.189 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 17:53:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.189] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505111721.j4BHLOHT090463@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:53:02 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 May 2005 17:53:03.0042 (UTC) FILETIME=[471E9220:01C55652] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "C M" >There is a rumour in the German dark age communities that the Thorsberg >trousers (the better preserved ones) have been redated by C14 to the >6th/7th >century. I have so far been unable to establish any truth in this rumour. >Nevertheless, there are finds from Haithabu (Hedeby, Northern Germany) >dating from the 10th century (pure Viking Age) with *exactly* the same >pattern for a pair of trousers. The missing bits are the trouser legs and >feet, but the existant remains of the leg parts indicate they were wide, >not >narrow as in the Thorsberg trousers. The rest of the pattern (crotchpieces, >bum, waistband, beltloops etc) were not only the same pattern, they were >almost the exact same measurements as well. The pattern seems to have been >preserved (at least in Northern Germany) for a few centuries then...... I would be interested in learning more about this. While I have heard that this is the case, and therefore is the reason that "Vikings" can wear "Thorsbjerg Trousers" (minus the feet), when I have dug through the written materials about Hedeby (and Birka for that matter), all I could see were scraps of fabric that were vaguely suggestive, but nothing really concrete. I'm relatively confident that Norse men were wearing trousers with some sort of gusset, since there is a reference in one of the Sagas about (something to the effect of) a woman getting in trouble for wearing gussetted trousers (which could mean either women wore only ungusseted trousers, or no trousers at all). Marc (and thank you Judy for the mention - I really need to hook that page into the rest of the site) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:44:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0ij65002433 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:44:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0i3Ys004843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0i3ax013790; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:44:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swiftsure.concentric.com (swiftsure.concentric.com [207.155.252.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIEYQG035592 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:14:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by swiftsure.concentric.com id OAA28602; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:14:27 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505111814.OAA28602@swiftsure.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:14:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505111721.j4BHLOHT090463@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4BIEYQG035592 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] polymer clay powder question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This got me thinking as well. I found some old giant buttons that look like rope work. Gilded in some way they would make great ornaments. Spray paint...looks like spray paint. Is anyone familiar with these metallic powders? Julie > >The gold powder suggestions really give me ideas. I think I can find gold > >leaf easier than I can find gold lipstick. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:46:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0kTFQ002451 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:46:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0juYs005103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0jt7m014712; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:45:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swiftsure.concentric.com (swiftsure.concentric.com [207.155.252.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BILfB4041786 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by swiftsure.concentric.com id OAA09876; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:21:35 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505111821.OAA09876@swiftsure.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:21:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505111800.j4BI06YI024013@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4BILfB4041786 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As a fairly new member to our group I was asked to teach a class on making basic garb trousers. When I started researching I couldn't find anything that looks like the baggy long trousers so prevalent at events that I was supposed to teach. The pants I found were fairly tight and ended near the knee. Our group starts at 1066 so even stretching to pick up Vikings, there wasn't much out there. I'd love to hear more on this topic. Julie ---- wrote: > > I would be interested in learning more about this. While I have heard that > this is the case, and therefore is the reason that "Vikings" can wear > "Thorsbjerg Trousers" (minus the feet), when I have dug through the written > materials about Hedeby (and Birka for that matter), all I could see were > scraps of fabric that were vaguely suggestive, but nothing really concrete. > > I'm relatively confident that Norse men were wearing trousers with some sort > of gusset, since there is a reference in one of the Sagas about (something > to the effect of) a woman getting in trouble for wearing gussetted trousers > (which could mean either women wore only ungusseted trousers, or no trousers > at all). > > Marc > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:46:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0kdAv002454 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:46:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0k4Ys005122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0k2Jo014792; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BIQTbp045964 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j4BIQQve005142 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 14:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050511142433.01c04d40@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:26:26 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511124310.02a13ec0@mail.alltel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good Lordy... there's a whole PhD thesis in that question. ; > I'll give it my best shot - after work... right now... on to meetings. Bridgette >I would appreciate a bit of guidance on women's underthings, specifically >shifts/ smocks/ chemise and it's evolution from early (6th century) to >late (16th century). > >The questions revolve around whether they were a holdover in simplified >form (basic cut) of an earlier style of outer garment, were derived from >contemporary fashion or evolved independently (ie. how did they change >with the styles) and the issue of regional variants? Can their evolution >be traced from the Coptic tunics that were manufactured and traded as "off >the rack" garments in late Roman times? I realize that this is a >complicated subject, with no simple answers and little existing evidence, >but what are your views? > >Pointers to useful references and/or artwork would be particularly >helpful. Other than the late smocks in the V&A, I have found very little >on the subject. > >Thanks. >Beth Matney Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:47:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0l01X002458 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:47:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0kPYs005209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0kMBI015023; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4BJIWPw087212 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 13:18:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.119.170.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.119.170]) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DVwj1-0006Bt-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 May 2005 12:18:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200505101630.j4AGTtbL070979@net.indra.com> References: <200505101630.j4AGTtbL070979@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 12:18:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tayla wrote: >Since I know several of you have seen the movie, I've got a question >about one of the cloak/mantles that shows up fairly often. There >appears to be no clasp, just a mass or band of fabric that sits across >the top of the chest/shoulders. You can see the top of this at >http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0320661/KOH-19.jpg or there's a better >picture about 11 in on the gallery of the www.kingdomofheavenmovie.com > site, but it's all flash so I >can't give you a direct link. I've seen images of this sort of cloak >before, but how is it constructed? I assume it's something you pull >over your head, but the 'mass of fabric at the chest seems to indicate >more than one layer. Is it a circle? Any hits as to the period of such >a garment? Anyone who's worn one, how functional a garment is this? It's a Moroccan selham, also called a burnous in Algeria, a not-exactly-semi-circular hooded cloak. They are worn only by men in Morocco and Algeria. For men in the countryside and small towns, they are made, as you could see in the film, of loosely-woven wool. Most are beige, but men of a certain status can wear white (hajji, i think). Ocassionally one sees them in other colors, too. Rich urban men sometimes have custom made matching selham and djellaba (a hooded tunic) made of expensive luxurious wools with machine embroidery and satin lining. http://www.folkwear.com/132.html And those from the southern Berber rural regions, where it is called akhnif, are woven to shape on special looms, of hand spun sheep (and maybe some goat) hair, very heavy and thick to protect herders out in the wilds: http://www.marlamallett.com/w-2888.htm But there is a surviving 14th century cloak from the grave of Bishop Timotheos that is very similar. It is sewn of narrow pieces of woven cloth. It was dark indigo dyed wool lined with madder dyed cotton and edged with turquoise-y indigo dyed silk. There's a diagram in: Elizabeth Grace Crowfoot. The Clothing of a Fourteenth Century Nubian Bishop, pp. 43-51. - in - Veronika Gervers, ed. Studies in Textile History In memory of Harold B. Burnham. Toronto: Royal Ontario Museum, 1977. ISBN 0-88854-192-9. A diagram and sewing instructions recreating this garment of pieced fabric in 14th c. widths were put together by someone in the SCA (SCA: Master Rashid/mundane: Charles Mellor) and only available to members of a list oriented to the Mamluk period (1250-1517 ruled, governed for about 2 more centuries, in Egypt and the Levant): [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mamluk_history/files/Timotheos%27%20Tunic%20%26%20Pants/] But i will be putting them up, with his permission, on my website later this week or early next week, where the information will be more accessible to historic costumers. The problems i have with the selham in Kingdom of Heaven are (1.) in the film it was worn by women, when as far as i can tell it was only a man's garment in the 14th c.; (2.) i've no information on them being worn in the 12th century; and (3.) i have never heard of this type of garment being worn in what is now Syria/Lebanon/Israel-Palestine When i was in Morocco in Dec. 2000-Jan 2001, i never saw a Moroccan woman wearing a selham/burnous, and in fact, i only saw them worn (by men) south of the Atlas Mountains - where parts of "Kingdom of Heaven" were filmed - the Atlas are those snow covered mountains in the background of some scenes, especially when Balian was at his father's "castle". Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 20:47:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C0lrpF002462 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:47:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C0lLYs005378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 18:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0lKnm015631; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C0lHmL015562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:47:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C25P5D012295 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:05:26 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Trousers Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:47:08 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505112047.09227.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 11 May 2005 11:40 am, C M wrote: > Hi, > > There is a rumour in the German dark age communities that the Thorsberg > trousers (the better preserved ones) have been redated by C14 to the > 6th/7th century. I have so far been unable to establish any truth in this > rumour. Nevertheless, there are finds from Haithabu (Hedeby, Northern > Germany) dating from the 10th century (pure Viking Age) with *exactly* the > same pattern for a pair of trousers. I'd love to see those. Do you remember where you came across this information? > The missing bits are the trouser legs > and feet, but the existant remains of the leg parts indicate they were > wide, not narrow as in the Thorsberg trousers. If the existing remains of the trousers show the legs were *wide*, and not narrow, it's not "exactly the same pattern." :-) > The rest of the pattern > (crotchpieces, bum, waistband, beltloops etc) were not only the same > pattern, I can certainly believe that there was substantial similarity of pattern in the uppermost parts of pants (not going to try to use a technical term on this one), even over centuries.... > they were almost the exact same measurements as well. That's a bit hard to believe, but I suppose it's no more incredible than when a flipped coin comes up heads 50 times in a row--within the law of probability, but not the usual result. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:13:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1DA3p002606 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:13:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1CLYs007614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1CJP9027859; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:12:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1CA6B027770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:12:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4C14hmT005882 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:04:43 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4282AD65.8070907@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:12:05 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More costume notes 1662; the King's suit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sunday 11 May 1662 http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/05/11/index.php (Lord’s day). To our church in the morning, where, our Minister being out of town, a dull, flat Presbiter preached. Dined at home, and my wife’s brother with us, we having a good dish of stewed beef of Jane’s own dressing, which was well done, and a piece of sturgeon of a barrel sent me by Captain Cocke. In the afternoon to White Hall; and there walked an hour or two in the Park, where I saw the King now out of mourning, in a suit laced with gold and silver, which it was said was out of fashion. Thence to the Wardrobe; and there consulted with the ladies about our going to Hampton Court to-morrow, and thence home, and after settled business there my wife and I to the Wardrobe, and there we lay all night in Captain Ferrers’ chambers, but the bed so soft that I could not sleep that hot night. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:24:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1Opx1002682 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1OIYs008720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1OG7Q033543; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1ODTP033472 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:24:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.208]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050512012403.IHWI14321.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:24:03 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511200847.02bc9120@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:23:19 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise In-Reply-To: <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> References: <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is a very good booklet (I'm glad that it is still in print), but I was hoping for a bit more..... Beth At 06:25 PM 5/11/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:39:42 -0700 >From: Lavolta Press >Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise >To: Historical Costume > >There is a wonderful little book on this topic titled _Cut My Cote_, by >Dorothy Burnham, published by the Royal Ontario Museum. It includes >patterns taken from historic shirts and shifts, as well as a dicussion >of the evolution of cut. > >Fran >Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:39:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1dEAp002737 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:39:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1cSYs009622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:38:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1cPw9040494; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:38:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1cK9j040425 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.208]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050512013814.ISWG14321.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:38:14 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511201022.02bcf530@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:37:57 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise In-Reply-To: <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> References: <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So I'll put you down on the side of independently evolved from the Coptic tunic, influenced by contemporary fashion? I had hoped that someone had continued on Dorothy Burnham's work in this area. Beth At 06:25 PM 5/11/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 13:27:13 -0700 >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise >To: Historical Costume > > >I would appreciate a bit of guidance on women's underthings, specifically > >shifts/ smocks/ chemise and it's evolution from early (6th century) to > >late (16th century). > > > >The questions revolve around whether they were a holdover in simplified > >form (basic cut) of an earlier style of outer garment, were derived from > >contemporary fashion or evolved independently (ie. how did they change > >with the styles) and the issue of regional variants? Can their evolution > >be traced from the Coptic tunics that were manufactured and traded as "off > >the rack" garments in late Roman times? I realize that this is a > >complicated subject, with no simple answers and little existing evidence, > >but what are your views? > > > >Pointers to useful references and/or artwork would be particularly > >helpful. Other than the late smocks in the V&A, I have found very little > >on the subject. > >Go for a book called _Cut My Cote_. It shows many centuries of garments, >and undergarments, using variations of a simple rectangles-and-triangles >cut. Certainly those late smocks in the V&A all use variations of this >cut. The exact shape of the neckline will vary depending on what the >fashionable dress neckline is doing. The exact fullness of sleeve will >vary depending on what width the fashionable dress sleeves have. And there >are a couple of different ways to do an underarm gusset. But I'd say all >of these were cut really similarly, especially when contrasted with how the >corresponding outer garments were cut. > > CarolynKayta Barrows _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:42:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1gLco002757 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:42:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1fkYs009828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1fjPW042019; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1fgrM041941 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:41:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.208]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050512014130.DHXC15030.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:41:30 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511203845.02bed730@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:41:25 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise In-Reply-To: <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> References: <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yep...just not me. I look forward to your comments. Beth At 06:25 PM 5/11/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 14:26:26 -0400 >From: M Stewart >Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise > >Good Lordy... there's a whole PhD thesis in that question. ; > I'll give >it my best shot - after work... right now... on to meetings. Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:48:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1mKma002796 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1kMYs010188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1kLgs044171; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:46:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1kHmR044125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:46:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.11] (@acty1011.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.11]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j4C1k9EQ017971 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:46:16 -0400 Message-ID: <4282B55A.6080704@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:46:02 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? References: <20050510181551.30488.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050510181551.30488.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. The clothing was made by the folks at Plimoth Plantation or under their supervision, so it is well done, but, as they say, you can dress up a pig, but you can't put him on television without him making an ass of himself ;) The "ladies" mostly refused to wear caps, the men were usually underdressed (although, to be fair, they were engaged in some heavy labor), and only the fellow that came in to rescue them (the Factor) seemed to be comfortable wearing the clothing. I think that, for the sake of television, the people were not properly trained or allowed to become accustomed to much, so that they squirmed alot, giving the audience what they wanted (I wouldn't wear that, do that, wash that, chop that, listen to that, etc.) You are better off going to the Plimoth Plantation website and seeing folks that are comfortable in their clothing. 17th Cent clothing falls differently and has different stress points than modern clothing, so folks that aren't used to it can actually become tired wearing it (aside from the extra layers issues, etc.) Mike T. > >Channel 4 in the UK is about to run a series called >'Pioneer House' which I belive was shown last year on >PBS in the US as 'Colonial House' - boring personality >squabbles aside, the big question is: is the costuming >worth tuning in for? I've not made anything 17C yet >but am interested to see how practical/comfortable the >clothing would be. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:49:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1nlY2002807 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1mBYs010377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:48:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1mAS3045003; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1m7xg044937 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DFE73BC8C for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:48:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4282B5CB.4090405@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 20:47:55 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? References: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure which one you saw reviewed, but I have a Black and Decker 360 'Quick & Easy' model that I picked up cheap at some retail store over 6 years ago, and it's been problem free for me the whole time. It seems to have some sort of coating on the base because I iron (ie. melt) tape, stitch-witchery and other stuff you're not supposed to and it always peels off when the base plate cools down. I'd recommend it, based on my experience. I use it daily in my sewing, weekly on household stuff. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:55:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1tM3X002868 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:55:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1sdYs011418 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1sbWw048693; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1sYUl048658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:54:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.11] (@acty1011.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.11]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j4C1sUEQ012575 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:54:33 -0400 Message-ID: <4282B750.9070109@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:54:24 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire References: <4.3.1.2.20050511022153.03312c10@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050511022153.03312c10@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, the things you see when you don't have your shotgun... ;) Mike T. > IMO, the main difference: when I went to my first Ren Fair last year, > a girl flitted up to me - her skin was tinted green, she was wearing > some sort of gauzy "tinkerbell" costume complete with wings - and she > asked me if I would like to be sprinkled with fairy dust. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:56:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1uHmH002874 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:56:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1t9Ys011631 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1t8oi049135; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:55:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4C1t6bl049090 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 18620 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 01:54:55 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:54:55 -0700 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <44237.162.119.64.110.1115862904.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020 A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> References: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 18:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi, > I'm in the market for a new electric steam iron. My old one is a lovely > shade of "Harvest Gold", which tells you how old it is, plus, about 10 > years ago I melted the lid of a yogurt container on the base plate. Anyway > I have been squinting at the Consumer Reports listings, but I get the > feeling CR's testers don't actually iron that much, as their criteria are > kind of weird. So their first choice is a Black and Decker model that the > user reviews on Amazon.com found unreliable and problematic. Thus, I turn > to you: has anybody got an iron to recommend? I use mine for three things: > to iron existing clothes; to press seams, edges, and other tricky parts > when constructing garments, and sometimes to put a little gentle fulling > onto handwoven wools. How these purposes align with CR's "Ironing" > "Steaming" and "Glide" is a little unclear. Also everybody seems to hate > an iron that drips water on clothes at lower temperatures, but given the > nature of steam and condensation I'm not sure ! > there's a whole lot a manufacturer can do to prevent it. Anyway, your > advice gratefully entertained. Lauren, You may want to search the archives because there was a fairly recent discussion about irons on the list. My long and short answer is *do* buy a heavy one. Much of the work of ironing is pressing the iron down and the heavier the iron, the more work it does for you. Rowenta and Braun both make heavy irons (I saw the Braun ones at my local Bed, Bath & Beyond). I like my Rowenta but I am now putting filtered water in it because it gets mineral build-up pretty bad. I guess if you use the self-clean mechanism often it wouldn't be a problem but I guess I am lazy :~> And I agree with you about the consumer reports article! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 21:56:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C1uROn002878 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C1tjYs011914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 19:55:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1tjhl049674; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:55:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-dav24.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C1tgxF049548 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 11 May 2005 18:55:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 141.152.170.102 by BAY10-DAV24.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 12 May 2005 01:55:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [141.152.170.102] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com><000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <4280E176.5080200@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:55:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:55:34 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 01:55:37.0806 (UTC) FILETIME=[B180EEE0:01C55695] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4C1uROn002878 Status: RO And who would your market be? Reenactors are looking for different things than sci-fi costumers, for example---could a magazine be varied enough and at the same time in-depth enough to appeal to costumers across the spectrum? So while I agree that it would be very nice to have a good costume consumer magazine, this is not a great climate for starting one. Not that no one should do it, but I wouldn't touch the project with the proverbial ten-foot pole. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 22:09:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C29du7002932 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:09:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C28wYs013401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 20:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C28vgE056070; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C28sCb056008 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:08:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005051202084801300hi511e>; Thu, 12 May 2005 02:08:48 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c55697$891c4970$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com><000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <4280E176.5080200@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 22:08:48 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, Thank you for your in-depth input. I agree with you whole-hearted. Another method that magazines are doing to build a higher subscriber volume is a partnership with airline frequent flyer programs. I think we are receiving about 30 magazines currently a month by trading in our frequent flyer miles. We ordered the magazines for ourselves and giving them as gifts to our adult children. It has been a wonderful way to test if the kids want them as birthday and Christmas gifts. My Mr. Money Bags son's receives Forbes magazine from us. Whenever I give him the issue, I tell him "Happy Birthday!" My son feels like we are celebrating/remembering his birthday every month. One of my favorite magazines that does well and is inexpensive is W. It is always thick and has tons of full color ads. The subscription rate is so much cheaper than other magazines... like $14.95 a year. I love their ads, they are always were done and shows the latest from the designers. As a business, I receive a lot of magazines a month because I receive a professional rate. Some subscriptions are between $5-10 a year. Back to costume... two of the costume magazines that passed away in the last few years, their subscription rate was between $40-50 a year (4-6 issues a year). To me, it is not worth that much money. These publications were not like a regular magazine in size but about the size and thickness of the Costume & Dressmaker. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 22:30:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C2UCYo003024 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C2TYYs016019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 20:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C2TXkW068495; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41807.mail.yahoo.com (web41807.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4C2TU0H068408 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:29:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63396 invoked by uid 60001); 12 May 2005 02:29:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=c2S4HOJcAtz0lsrMrRd5RTklucHwAxSr6r1GTqUkRwXz7MyGDwCjrb7+GZ0nRqVtWlPaRFhEuhSZYIJyQ+2mz4PTKtd9aTM1rQBO0Msjd15KwBo4n4vGNKSwkzuI7n5cXS7RmAq3vVTfOP3PSUs/d9qVtIaU1dPnkt8zmQYl6vU= ; Message-ID: <20050512022925.63394.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.118.119] by web41807.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 May 2005 19:29:24 PDT Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 19:29:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire ......Swat that fairy, make 'em scream! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah yes, makes you long for the "good old days". I remember when So. Calif. RenFaire would comp the admission fee IF you came dressed period appropriate. This added to the "realism" for the mundanes who didn't wish to dress, you got to show off your garb and got a little "reward" for your hard work. Then "$buck$ "fever hit them. the $Buck$ became more important to them then apperance,theme,or realism. Enter Conan, Vulcans, klingons, demons,vampires,goths, Zebra people,hobbits elves fairies....even Jack from Jack in the Box fast foods,in doublet & slops. 3 weeks ago ,i stood disheartened as an entertainer, dressed in quasi Ren garb said" Dude, I need a chick up on the stage, oh I mean "princess" yeah right we're at the Ren Faire and I'm supposed to talk like..Ren talk." Queen ELizabeth is dead,..in more ways then one. If I want fairies I'll go to Comic Con, or Labrynth of Jareth... leave the 1560's to Elizabeth and friends... Melody --- michael tartaglio wrote: > Oh, the things you see when you don't have your > shotgun... ;) Mike T. > > > IMO, the main difference: when I went to my first > Ren Fair last year, > > a girl flitted up to me - her skin was tinted > green, she was wearing > > some sort of gauzy "tinkerbell" costume complete > with wings - and she > > asked me if I would like to be sprinkled with > fairy dust. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 22:34:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C2YU3B003054 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:34:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C2XiYs016581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 20:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C2Xhpv070694; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C2Xdvc070637 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 20:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050512023333.FOJN23759.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:33:33 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.107.53]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050512023332.URWE8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:33:32 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.11.8]); Thu, 12 May 2005 14:33:33 +1200 Message-ID: <00b001c5569a$fe0b4170$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> <44237.162.119.64.110.1115862904.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:33:33 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My long and short answer is *do* buy a heavy one. Much of the work of > ironing is pressing the iron down and the heavier the iron, the more work > it does for you. True, but there are those of us who can't wield a heavy iron anymore (at the grand old age of 29!) And so lighter irons do have their uses. In fact I've been most pleased with a small cheaply made travelling iron. It gets hot enough to press wrinkles out of all but the most stubborn of creases (which I then pass on to someone able to deal with a heavy iron. Ironing spray has been a bit of a blessing as well. Most of those middle stubborn creases come right out. I do have a tendancy to prefering easy to iron fabrics anyway, for obvious reasons if an iron is difficult, so that may be part of why I find a small light iron easy to use. Heh, my Oma broke our ironing board a few years ago due to how much she pressed down on it;) michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 10/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 23:14:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C3E1qs003242 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 23:14:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C3D9Ys021558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 21:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C3D7TF091100; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C3D4db091049 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050512031258014003l9o7e>; Thu, 12 May 2005 03:12:58 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c556a0$7fdeef80$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com><000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><4280E176.5080200@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:12:58 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The costume target audience is vast and I don't think people realize what a wide variety of people are interested in costume. For the past nine years I have been keeping statistics on how many people visit my website and have talked with our visitors and students. It amazes me of the various reasons people are researching our websites. Once they are there, they stick around for a long time. I don't share my statistics due to privacy of our visitors... as I said before marketing and demographics is my hobby. But I can tell you the following: Types of visitors: 3rd grade to doctorate students and their teachers.... subject study areas: fashion, costume, literature, women's studies, home-school, art history, graphic design, sociology, psychology, history, different cultures, religion, architecture, museum studies, theater, etc. hobbyist: reenactors, role-playing, anime, movie fans, actors, genealogists, collectors of several types, dance companies, fans of certain eras costumes or needlework, history buffs, fans of certain eras of books (like Jane Austen), tea societies, Mardi Gras/ Carnival members, bird and floral enthusiasts (think of how much birds and flowers are used in fashion); holiday costume ideas (such as Christmas, Halloween, president days, Carnival/Mardi Gras), quilters, embroiderers, lacemakers, seamstresses professionals: authors, living history staff, pro. actors, museum curators and staff, authors, journalists, screenwriters, playwriters, advertising agencies, disc jockeys (trivia questions), game show researchers, tv / film researchers, calligraphers, fashion and costume designers, librarians, hair stylists, paper doll designers, sculptures, artists, textile designers, seamstresses Areas of interest can go from needlework, etiquette, fabric, style of dress to chemical makeup of cosmetics and dyes. Now this is no way a complete list. Some memorable visitors: ***a group of doctors wrote the effect of our great grandmothers dressed having an influence on the way we act today. They have been working on this project for 15 years. *** a museum doing an exhibit about birds and why some were close to extinction. They borrowed some of my images of ladies with feathered hats for the exhibit. ***Calligraphers/illustrators for a greeting card company... they obtain inspiration for their cards. My point is that the clothing touches so many different types of people for different reasons. The target markets are wide open. I think the main problem is that when these past magazines was that they looked at their target market being to small. I remember one targeted just theater costume design instructors. If you look at the demographics for just reenactors, the scope is not as large as some would think. I have found some other common interests among costume history lovers... films, books, genealogy, historic architecture, graveyard art, flowers, and cats. For some reason, these seem to be a common loves among costumers. When you talk with a historic costume lovers, and want to talk about other things... pick on of those topics. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 11 23:23:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C3NCgO003297 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 23:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C3LwYs022120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 21:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C3LvaH094939; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:21:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:3qeE5P6EIvihcacsN315xZQxVc9DhgJ0@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C3LtEo094919 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 21:21:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.139] (pool180-146.patriot.net [209.249.180.146]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j4C3Lo8a013369 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 23:21:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200505100709.j4A79w6e050815@net.indra.com><000301c55534$d06b9920$0300a8c0 @yourw04gtxld67> <4280E176.5080200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:20:55 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nancy said, >And who would your market be? Reenactors are looking for different >things than sci-fi costumers, for example---could a magazine be >varied enough and at the same time in-depth enough to appeal to >costumers across the spectrum? And the flip side - members of each group may complain, "It's all full of (whatever they don't do). There was only one useful article in the whole issue." We're used to hitting the delete key on this list for any topics that don't catch our interest. It's harder to do that at $10.00 an issue. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 00:07:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C47jPQ003536 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:07:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C47CYs025472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 22:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C47Adh014699; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:07:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C476VD014672 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:07:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F46A35B4C for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 23:07:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AD673D3F0 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 23:07:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire ......Swat that fairy, make 'em scream! Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:07:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050512022925.63394.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I actually don't mind the fairies. I just wish they would dress them in garb that the they were portrayed in during 1500s. Which was usually garments similar to garments worn in that period but with naturistic and/or otherworldly accents. Not these flimsy Roman togas. At a Ren Fest I went to there was a young man prancing around in what looked like a frat guy going to a toga party. :P Well it's not my RenFaire so I cope. De -----Original Message----- Ah yes, makes you long for the "good old days". I remember when So. Calif. RenFaire would comp the admission fee IF you came dressed period appropriate. This added to the "realism" for the mundanes who didn't wish to dress, you got to show off your garb and got a little "reward" for your hard work. Then "$buck$ "fever hit them. the $Buck$ became more important to them then apperance,theme,or realism. Enter Conan, Vulcans, klingons, demons,vampires,goths, Zebra people,hobbits elves fairies....even Jack from Jack in the Box fast foods,in doublet & slops. 3 weeks ago ,i stood disheartened as an entertainer, dressed in quasi Ren garb said" Dude, I need a chick up on the stage, oh I mean "princess" yeah right we're at the Ren Faire and I'm supposed to talk like..Ren talk." Queen ELizabeth is dead,..in more ways then one. If I want fairies I'll go to Comic Con, or Labrynth of Jareth... leave the 1560's to Elizabeth and friends... Melody --- michael tartaglio wrote: > Oh, the things you see when you don't have your > shotgun... ;) Mike T. > > > IMO, the main difference: when I went to my first > Ren Fair last year, > > a girl flitted up to me - her skin was tinted > green, she was wearing > > some sort of gauzy "tinkerbell" costume complete > with wings - and she > > asked me if I would like to be sprinkled with > fairy dust. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 00:15:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C4FRpD003592 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:15:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C4EXYs025894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 22:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C4EQB8017751; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:14:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from out-mail18.yourhostingaccount.com (outmail.yourhostingaccount.com [65.254.254.75]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C4EObN017734 for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:14:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SRS0=gD4Zbv=TT=sewingcity.com=becky@yourhostingaccount.com) Message-Id: <200505120414.j4C4EObN017734@net.indra.com> Received: from scan09.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.239] helo=scan09.yourhostingaccount.com) by mail18.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DW55b-0008PK-AW for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:14:23 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] ident=exim) by scan09.yourhostingaccount.com with spamscanlookuphost (Exim) id 1DW55b-0007As-8o for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:14:23 -0400 Received: from authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.1.1.156] helo=authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com) by scan09.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DW55b-0007AY-1I for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:14:23 -0400 Received: from pool-71-111-177-89.ptldor.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.111.177.89] helo=random) by authsmtp02.yourhostingaccount.com with esmtpa (Exim) id 1DW55Y-0000LM-Ex for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:14:20 -0400 From: "Becky @ SewingCity.com" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:14:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 In-Reply-To: <002301c556a0$7fdeef80$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Thread-Index: AcVWoQE2YZfcIJlFSd+5q2BsZOrLbgABresA X-EN-UserInfo: 231a4af1c6595951fa0035d7a7dfc491:44225c88802e2dc5c324d40447d7bea9 X-EN-AuthUser: becky@sewingcity.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Penny, All the information you and Fran have provided is valuable and I will save and consider it. Would you happen to remember the names of the 4 magazines you mentioned that died? I am working on financial backing from a couple of larger companies that could compliment the magazine well, as well as looking into printing and other areas of expense. As for content, a broad market that encompasses many areas of costuming in each issue would be appropriate, rather than just a few eras of historical costuming. I am thinking that it would include, by section, something for everyone. I realize that the caution around this topic is due to the past magazines not working out. Readers may have felt slighted when the most recent magazine didn't pan out. I can only imagine how Denise must have felt when she knew she couldn't pay the printer, or release anymore issues, for whatever reasons. However, this is a viable opportunity to put out there something a niche market wants: a quality, reliable publication that celebrates costuming, while educating people about the many facets of the market. Becky http://sewingcity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 00:20:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C4KVZK003619 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:20:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C4JqYs026248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 11 May 2005 22:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C4JpHE020070; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C4Jkve019964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 11 May 2005 22:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C5bux8015324 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 01:37:56 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 00:19:40 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200505101801.j4AI0vnT060539@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505120019.40212.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 11 May 2005 3:55 pm, lilinah@earthlink.net wrote: [snip] > > On our way out of Merzouga, i picked up two young French hitch > hikers. After mentioning that we were from California, the young > woman said that the landscape must be very different from CA. I said > there were deserts in California and she very clearly did not believe > me, having another common stereotype, that California is all sunny > palm-tree lined beaches, which even many Americans hold. Though if memory serves me, California tends more toward rocky desert than sandy ones. She probably concluded that it's only a "desert" if it's all or mostly sand. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 02:25:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C6PW52013040 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 02:25:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C6P8Ys006812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 00:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C6P3NL074054; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C6P07H074007 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:25:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.237.125] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DW77z-0005Hk-P4; Thu, 12 May 2005 02:25:00 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Xt95BIEtjuwQquami+vBhXtBl78h4irQa2JE+TXnK0oyOK1JYVewdzHUePkJqP40; Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:13:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trousers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47874241ab66785ff6daa739ecf7a47ea235a19d70abce25e4d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.237.125 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4C6P07H074007 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:40 AM +1000 5/12/05, C M wrote: >Hi, > >There is a rumour in the German dark age >communities that the Thorsberg trousers (the >better preserved ones) have been redated by C14 >to the 6th/7th century. I have so far been >unable to establish any truth in this rumour. >Nevertheless, there are finds from Haithabu >(Hedeby, Northern Germany) dating from the 10th >century (pure Viking Age) with *exactly* the >same pattern for a pair of trousers. The missing >bits are the trouser legs and feet, but the >existant remains of the leg parts indicate they >were wide, not narrow as in the Thorsberg >trousers. The rest of the pattern (crotchpieces, >bum, waistband, beltloops etc) were not only the >same pattern, they were almost the exact same >measurements as well. The pattern seems to have >been preserved (at least in Northern Germany) >for a few centuries then...... If that's the case, then they must have found a bunch more trouser-bits at Hedeby since the publication of Inga Hägg's book. All that she has is a trapezoidal piece of fabric with seams at the edges, which she equates with the trapezoidal central gusset of the Thorsbjerg pants. Do you know of a publication that describes the other pieces you mention? I've always felt that that particular piece was one of Hägg's more ... extrapolative ... interpretations. Other pieces that matched other parts of the garment would support the theory more strongly, but I wasn't aware that any had been found and identified. (I've lately been doing several iterations of an class/lecture that starts by passing around reconstructions of several of the Hedeby textiles -- reconstructed in their fragmentary and tattered state -- to stimulate discussion about the significant distance between the finds and the currently-popular reconstructions that are based on them.) Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 02:25:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C6PafM013064 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 02:25:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C6P8Ys006813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 00:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C6P2kV074042; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C6P0Gt074006 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:25:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [69.3.237.125] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DW77z-0005Hk-P4; Thu, 12 May 2005 02:25:00 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Xt95BIEtjuwQquami+vBhXtBl78h4irQa2JE+TXnK0oyOK1JYVewdzHUePkJqP40; Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:13:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: [h-cost] Re: Trousers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d47874241ab66785ff6daa739ecf7a47ea238733c4c759fdbee8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.237.125 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4C6P0Gt074006 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 1:40 AM +1000 5/12/05, C M wrote: >Hi, > >There is a rumour in the German dark age >communities that the Thorsberg trousers (the >better preserved ones) have been redated by C14 >to the 6th/7th century. I have so far been >unable to establish any truth in this rumour. >Nevertheless, there are finds from Haithabu >(Hedeby, Northern Germany) dating from the 10th >century (pure Viking Age) with *exactly* the >same pattern for a pair of trousers. The missing >bits are the trouser legs and feet, but the >existant remains of the leg parts indicate they >were wide, not narrow as in the Thorsberg >trousers. The rest of the pattern (crotchpieces, >bum, waistband, beltloops etc) were not only the >same pattern, they were almost the exact same >measurements as well. The pattern seems to have >been preserved (at least in Northern Germany) >for a few centuries then...... If that's the case, then they must have found a bunch more trouser-bits at Hedeby since the publication of Inga Hägg's book. All that she has is a trapezoidal piece of fabric with seams at the edges, which she equates with the trapezoidal central gusset of the Thorsbjerg pants. Do you know of a publication that describes the other pieces you mention? I've always felt that that particular piece was one of Hägg's more ... extrapolative ... interpretations. Other pieces that matched other parts of the garment would support the theory more strongly, but I wasn't aware that any had been found and identified. (I've lately been doing several iterations of an class/lecture that starts by passing around reconstructions of several of the Hedeby textiles -- reconstructed in their fragmentary and tattered state -- to stimulate discussion about the significant distance between the finds and the currently-popular reconstructions that are based on them.) Heather -- -- Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 03:06:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C764St026799 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 03:06:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C75LYs010586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 01:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C75KAe091148; Thu, 12 May 2005 01:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4C75GkF091110 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 01:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 10683 invoked from network); 12 May 2005 07:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.3.169) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 12 May 2005 07:03:45 -0000 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 17:10:20 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <002301c556a0$7fdeef80$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My thoughts - as long as we can find information available on the internet, many of us will bypass the magazine rack. How many of us have stopped reading the fashion mags in the "dunny" and now sit at the computer instead? No long dunny visits by me anymore!! :o) Aylwen On Thursday, May 12, 2005, at 01:12 PM, Penny Ladnier wrote: > The costume target audience is vast and I don't think people realize > what a wide variety of people are interested in costume. For the past > nine years I have been keeping statistics on how many people visit my > website and have talked with our visitors and students. It amazes me > of the various reasons people are researching our websites. Once they > are there, they stick around for a long time. I don't share my > statistics due to privacy of our visitors... as I said before > marketing and demographics is my hobby. But I can tell you the > following: > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 03:54:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C7stZ1002337 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 03:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C701Ys010043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 01:00:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C700b8088832; Thu, 12 May 2005 01:00:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C6xs01088777 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 00:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.118.250.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.118.250]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DW7fl-00058e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 May 2005 23:59:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 23:59:50 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I read a bit about what they *don't* show. The tapes are edited, of course, and it seems the editors like to show - or at least seem to think the audience will prefer - the most contentious parts. When i watched Colonial House, they all seemed such slug-a-beds. But after reading about what went on that wasn't shown, they really were working together and very hard most of the time. I think that what makes it to TV is perhaps unfair to the participants - and to us viewers, as well. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 04:25:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4C8PBhO011100 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 04:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C8OWYs017209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 02:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C8ORbm022755; Thu, 12 May 2005 02:24:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4C8OO0r022733 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 02:24:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-212.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.212]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4C8NeXx032112 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 04:23:41 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050512000225.025027e8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 00:04:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050511201022.02bcf530@mail.alltel.net> References: <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> <200505112325.j4BNPlVk071783@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >So I'll put you down on the side of independently evolved from the Coptic >tunic, influenced by contemporary fashion? Necklines and sleeves of underwear are always influenced by contemporary fashion. But Elizabethan shifts and Coptic tunics probably share a common ancestor. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 08:01:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CC1cPF008161 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:01:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CC0iYs016589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 06:00:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CC0eSZ009173; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:00:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CC0bm4009081 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:00:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A55E7E40034; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:00:30 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.115 ([209.131.81.115] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 12 May 05 12:00:26 -0000 Message-ID: <008d01c556ea$7700bc00$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> <4282B5CB.4090405@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:02:25 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a tiny tube of a special paste (Ironoff?) available in most hardware stores, JoAnns or from Clotilde that will get the gunk off in no time. Just squirt it in a piece of old terry, turn the iron on high and iron over the paste until the solaplate is clean. Also, I have just gotten some "Clean sheets" from one of the catalogue purveyors that claim they do the same thing...but haven't tried them out yet. Then you get a teflon pressing sheet from Clotilde to use when you have potentially sticky jobs to perform! This pressing sheet is a wonder! It is somewhat opaque, looks like a plain heavy plastic sheet (about18x14?) but it doesn't melt! I find it nice to have handy for appliques or just on poly fiber fabrics that might want more heat than 'silk'. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? > I'm not sure which one you saw reviewed, but I have a Black and Decker > 360 'Quick & Easy' model that I picked up cheap at some retail store > over 6 years ago, and it's been problem free for me the whole time. It > seems to have some sort of coating on the base because I iron (ie. melt) > tape, stitch-witchery and other stuff you're not supposed to and it > always peels off when the base plate cools down. I'd recommend it, based > on my experience. I use it daily in my sewing, weekly on household stuff. > > > Dawn > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 08:03:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CC3bGQ008175 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CC2sYs016789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 06:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CC2s4U010240; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:02:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CC2piE010186 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:02:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A5E47F40034; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:02:44 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.115 ([209.131.81.115] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 12 May 05 12:02:41 -0000 Message-ID: <009501c556ea$c7367ca0$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> <44237.162.119.64.110.1115862904.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:04:39 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rowenta is my choice, too. I am using my third in about 25 years. I like the weight, the burst of steam and the self cleaning feature. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? > > > Hi, > > I'm in the market for a new electric steam iron. My old one is a lovely > > shade of "Harvest Gold", which tells you how old it is, plus, about 10 > > years ago I melted the lid of a yogurt container on the base plate. Anyway > > I have been squinting at the Consumer Reports listings, but I get the > > feeling CR's testers don't actually iron that much, as their criteria are > > kind of weird. So their first choice is a Black and Decker model that the > > user reviews on Amazon.com found unreliable and problematic. Thus, I turn > > to you: has anybody got an iron to recommend? I use mine for three things: > > to iron existing clothes; to press seams, edges, and other tricky parts > > when constructing garments, and sometimes to put a little gentle fulling > > onto handwoven wools. How these purposes align with CR's "Ironing" > > "Steaming" and "Glide" is a little unclear. Also everybody seems to hate > > an iron that drips water on clothes at lower temperatures, but given the > > nature of steam and condensation I'm not sure ! > > there's a whole lot a manufacturer can do to prevent it. Anyway, your > > advice gratefully entertained. > > Lauren, > > You may want to search the archives because there was a fairly recent > discussion about irons on the list. > > My long and short answer is *do* buy a heavy one. Much of the work of > ironing is pressing the iron down and the heavier the iron, the more work > it does for you. Rowenta and Braun both make heavy irons (I saw the Braun > ones at my local Bed, Bath & Beyond). I like my Rowenta but I am now > putting filtered water in it because it gets mineral build-up pretty bad. > I guess if you use the self-clean mechanism often it wouldn't be a problem > but I guess I am lazy :~> > > And I agree with you about the consumer reports article! > > Diana > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 08:07:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CC76B6008206 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:07:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CC6JYs017109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 06:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CC6JGR011742; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:06:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CC6G7E011685 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A6B1E9F00BC; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:06:09 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.115 ([209.131.81.115] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 12 May 05 12:06:04 -0000 Message-ID: <00a301c556eb$403efbe0$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net><44237.162.119.64.110.1115862904.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> <00b001c5569a$fe0b4170$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:08:02 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And always remember spray starch! Never did convince my mother, but Easy On or Niagara (my favorite) take hours off any ironing day!! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? > > My long and short answer is *do* buy a heavy one. Much of the work of > > ironing is pressing the iron down and the heavier the iron, the more work > > it does for you. > > True, but there are those of us who can't wield a heavy iron anymore (at the > grand old age of 29!) And so lighter irons do have their uses. > > In fact I've been most pleased with a small cheaply made travelling iron. It > gets hot enough to press wrinkles out of all but the most stubborn of > creases (which I then pass on to someone able to deal with a heavy iron. > > Ironing spray has been a bit of a blessing as well. Most of those middle > stubborn creases come right out. > > I do have a tendancy to prefering easy to iron fabrics anyway, for obvious > reasons if an iron is difficult, so that may be part of why I find a small > light iron easy to use. > > Heh, my Oma broke our ironing board a few years ago due to how much she > pressed down on it;) > > michaela > http://glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 10/05/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 08:11:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CCBRCm008256 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CCAwYs017436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 06:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CCAwXN013762; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:10:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CCAt9T013695 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:10:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A7C912B0050; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:10:49 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.115 ([209.131.81.115] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 12 May 05 12:10:46 -0000 Message-ID: <00c101c556eb$e86ba840$735183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:12:45 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend time seeking out misfits in a cast or conflicts between individuals that have no meaning or bearing on the period being scrutinized and play these up to the omission of pertinent material. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 2:59 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? > I read a bit about what they *don't* show. The tapes are edited, of > course, and it seems the editors like to show - or at least seem to > think the audience will prefer - the most contentious parts. When i > watched Colonial House, they all seemed such slug-a-beds. But after > reading about what went on that wasn't shown, they really were > working together and very hard most of the time. I think that what > makes it to TV is perhaps unfair to the participants - and to us > viewers, as well. > > Anahita > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 08:30:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CCUO1T008400 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CCTmYs018938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 06:29:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CCTlXh022385; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:29:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CCTh7t022056 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j4CCT3d05882.; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:29:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:29:02 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:28:40 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4CCTh7t022056 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO . >>> rmitchell@washjeff.edu 12/05/2005 13:12 >>> wrote: >As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend time >seeking out misfits in a cast or conflicts between individuals that have no >meaning or bearing on the period being scrutinized and play these up to the >omission of pertinent material. >Kathleen I agree. In the "Edwardian House", one of the kitchenmaids left on the first day, saying she hadn't realised the work would be so hard. As it would appear to be a waste of everyone's time not to brief participants properly, one wonders whether the incident was deliberately staged. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 09:11:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CDBNqj008670 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:11:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CDAYYs021696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 07:10:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CDAOEw041439; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:10:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CDAMEV041426 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:10:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) Received: from [66.43.209.42] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 743586748 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:10:20 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c556f3$f7975960$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00c101c556eb$e86ba840$735183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:10:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend time > seeking out misfits in a cast or conflicts between individuals that have > no > meaning or bearing on the period being scrutinized and play these up to > the > omission of pertinent material. This is exactly right, and I think the program officials are wrong. I know many, many people who like to watch these shows and every one has mentioned disliking all the bickering and modern concepts that are introduced. It's pretty obvious that the producers are picking groups and families that would be at odds with each other in any circumstances, not just the stress of living in a time of unaccustomed hardship. I don't understand why people who would never dream of getting dirty or "doing without" would even apply for spot on these shows. My family applied to be a part of the one shot in Maine. We farm, we keep bees, sugar the maples, know how to sew and milk cows/goats, garden, make do and do without. We didn't even get a second contact. They *want* people to fail because they think it makes better television. The people who like that kind of program are watching Fear Factor, not PTV. In my opinion. Denise in Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 09:24:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CDOo38008758 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:24:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CDOIYs022614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 07:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CDOGNV048232; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CDODAL048158 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:24:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:24:07 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 08:23:53 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: SCA v Renfaire ......Swat that fairy, make 'em scream X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well it's not my RenFaire so I cope. De >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. Sigh, I wish I could say that. The 'scenario' for ours this year is the Hunchback of Notre Dame. Word is they may even make it a musical and might use canned music. Sigh. At least there are a few folks that care, I've already been contacted by a merchant who wants a good middle-class ensemble. And I have the husband trained, he's decided that 100% linen, period constructed shirts are the most comfortable :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 09:59:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CDx9Kr008972 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:59:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CDwKYs025465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 07:58:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CDwILn066742; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CDwEAu066690 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DWECb-00010s-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 May 2005 06:58:14 -0700 Message-ID: <42836109.8050906@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 06:58:33 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redressing dolls References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of pale skinned dolls. I just discovered the "new" (to me) resin ball jointed dolls like Volk's Dollfie. I was playing around with one yesterday to make a pattern. The dolls are super articulated and wow can you position them! I didn't think I could get excited about a non-cloth doll, but these are way cool! And perfect for a clod like me who should never be around glass or porcelin! They are VERY pricey, but I might have to save up some $ for at least one. I think I want mine to look like a cross between Johnny Depp and Kate Winslet! Saragrace Abel, Cynthia wrote: > > Carolyn: > > >>Thanks all for the info, interesting. I think I will try the >>second-hand stores, but for something bigger than Barbie -- too little. >> >> > > Thanks for the thanks on the info I shared. Barbie is too little(just >try fitting the multi-layer sleeves of the 1530s-1540s on these dolls), >but patterns to tweak and redesign are readily out there and cheap >during pattern sales at stores like Hancock Fabrics and JoAnns Fabrics >and Crafts. > >I now collect some of the 16" tall fashion dolls, like Tyler Wentworth, >but these girls aren't cheap. Years ago, Toys R Us had a line of quality >dolls for girls called "Young Lady So Beautiful." They were about 15" >tall,and made of a nice vinyl and built a lot like the larger Salvation >Army issue lady-type dolls I remember as a child. The hair was wigged >not rooted and the eyes were a glastic, type of very good quality. Hair, >eye and outfit colors and styles varied. They retailed originally for >$30 apiece and I scooped up four when the line was discontinued after a >year at $10 each. > >Regretfully now, I dressed one in an 1880's style ball gown(complete >with bustle pad underneath) in white as a bride and donated her to the >Salvation Army, thinking I could pick up more of these dolls some other >time. She was great fun to dress as she had rather realistic >proportions--about double body measurements of a Barbie, so I could do a >lot of detail work and use larger scale fabrics--actually they were >still pretty small scale on the doll. > >Took a peek at your website--Miranda Goshawk, huh? A co-worker and I >dressed as Hermione and Miranda for about four years every Halloween at >work. I actually visualize Miranda as a 16th or 17th century lady whose >"Standard Books of Spells series" has been required reading at Hogwarts >for the last 300-400 years. Would love to know her real history from JK >Rowling. I hope she does a book on how she created the world of Harry >Potter--I've seen a couple of specials that have shown her own notes and >illustrations, so such a book would be such fun. > >Cindy Abel, ILL Coordinator >hslill@creighton.edu >CUMC Health Sciences Library >Creighton University >2500 California >Omaha NE 68178-0210 >402-280-5144 > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 10:40:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CEeXou009243 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:40:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CEdMYs029550 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 08:39:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEdIxO093196; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEdEJW093153 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:39:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA9740208 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:39:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 2AAE93956; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:39:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] polymer clay powder question X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.136] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCg2qNAADu4AEAAAAB,c2be64a3682289de3661c558288a9ca9 Message-Id: <20050512143909.2AAE93956@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Haven't used the powders, but gold leafing is easy enough to do and you can do it with a "gold leaf" that isn't really gold, but looks like it so it isn't expensive. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Julie wrote: From: Julie Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 11:14:27 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: [h-cost] polymer clay powder question This got me thinking as well. I found some old giant buttons that look like rope work. Gilded in some way they would make great ornaments. Spray paint...looks like spray paint. Is anyone familiar with these metallic powders? Julie > >The gold powder suggestions really give me ideas. I think I can find gold > >leaf easier than I can find gold lipstick. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 10:58:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CEwpsU009448 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:58:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CEwEYs001777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 08:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEwDod006622; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:58:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEw8mN006546 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:58:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27132 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:58:08 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:58:07 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RE:Dollfies Thread-Index: AcVW+qmvsf+iN+XLRL2BToFyQSritgABncYg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4CEw8mN006546 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:Dollfies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I've heard of the Dollfies. The magazines Haute Doll and FDQ:Fashion Doll Quarterly have run several articles on them. But even the littlest are super-expensive for me--my dream is to have enough money to fall from trees, not to go to London, Bath, and anywhere else in the UK to view costume collections and haunt fabric shops, but to go to the Volks super factory in Japan and custom create and adopt my own Super Dollfie 13. Cindy Speaking of pale skinned dolls. I just discovered the "new" (to me) resin ball jointed dolls like Volk's Dollfie. I was playing around with one yesterday to make a pattern. The dolls are super articulated and wow can you position them! I didn't think I could get excited about a non-cloth doll, but these are way cool! And perfect for a clod like me who should never be around glass or porcelin! They are VERY pricey, but I might have to save up some $ for at least one. I think I want mine to look like a cross between Johnny Depp and Kate Winslet! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 10:59:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CExiri009464 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:59:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CEx2Ys001882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 08:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEx1mh007231; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:59:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEw8qB006541 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:58:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27122 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:58:07 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:58:05 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? Thread-Index: AcVW8/9iLgqowfBPRAiqGLjv11IFegADgmcg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4CEw8qB006541 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree, but the guess the idea is to take people most rooted in modern life, throw them into a recreated past and film what happens. Then edit it down into an entertainment show for the masses. Even for PBS, you gotta have buzz and ratings of some sort. What I would like to see is some sort of mix between reenactors who would insist on doing everything correctly, interested amateurs, like myself and probably a good portion of the list membership who would want to experience actually living and surviving in a past time as close as we could come sans time machine, and the willing but clueless who of course, represent the mass audience, who complain and rebel. Talk about ratings! Talk about sparks flying! Cindy Abel > As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend > time seeking out misfits in a cast or conflicts between individuals > that have no meaning or bearing on the period being scrutinized and > play these up to the omission of pertinent material. This is exactly right, and I think the program officials are wrong. I know many, many people who like to watch these shows and every one has mentioned disliking all the bickering and modern concepts that are introduced. It's pretty obvious that the producers are picking groups and families that would be at odds with each other in any circumstances, not just the stress of living in a time of unaccustomed hardship. I don't understand why people who would never dream of getting dirty or "doing without" would even apply for spot on these shows. My family applied to be a part of the one shot in Maine. We farm, we keep bees, sugar the maples, know how to sew and milk cows/goats, garden, make do and do without. We didn't even get a second contact. They *want* people to fail because they think it makes better television. The people who like that kind of program are watching Fear Factor, not PTV. In my opinion. Denise in Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 11:17:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CFHH3k009612 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:17:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CFGeYs004081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 09:16:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CFGcIv021172; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:16:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CFGZNV021069 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:16:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 ([204.127.197.111]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005051215162901300hje55e>; Thu, 12 May 2005 15:16:29 +0000 Received: from [67.168.12.165] by 204.127.197.111; Thu, 12 May 2005 15:16:28 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] women's shifts/smocks/chemise Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:16:28 +0000 Message-Id: <051220051516.26036.4283734C00092A67000065B422007374780809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello! I'd be interested in this too! I have cut of my cote as well, and would *love* something beyond that lovely bit too! Thank you! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > Good Lordy... there's a whole PhD thesis in that question. ; > I'll give > it my best shot - after work... right now... on to meetings. Bridgette > > > >I would appreciate a bit of guidance on women's underthings, specifically > >shifts/ smocks/ chemise and it's evolution from early (6th century) to > >late (16th century). > > > >The questions revolve around whether they were a holdover in simplified > >form (basic cut) of an earlier style of outer garment, were derived from > >contemporary fashion or evolved independently (ie. how did they change > >with the styles) and the issue of regional variants? Can their evolution > >be traced from the Coptic tunics that were manufactured and traded as "off > >the rack" garments in late Roman times? I realize that this is a > >complicated subject, with no simple answers and little existing evidence, > >but what are your views? > > > >Pointers to useful references and/or artwork would be particularly > >helpful. Other than the late smocks in the V&A, I have found very little > >on the subject. > > > >Thanks. > >Beth Matney > > Mari Stewart > Webmaster > College of Veterinary Medicine > Cornell University > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 12:09:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CG9rIq010488 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:09:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CG8mYs011454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 10:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CG8jsf063357; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:08:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CG8VFH063111 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:08:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.165] (pm5-165.eos.net [205.133.149.165]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j4CG8RRr015917 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:08:27 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:01:19 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505120229.j4C2TYXZ068508@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 311 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike Tartaglio wrote: > Hi. The clothing was made by the folks at Plimoth Plantation or under > their supervision, so it is well done, but, as they say, you can dress > up a pig, but you can't put him on television without him making an ass > of himself ;) Ha ha Mike! You made my day with that one. It is TOO TRUE. Gail Fink _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 12:39:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CGd381010735 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:39:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CGcKYs022422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 10:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CGcGk5093212; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:38:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CGcCwa093054 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:38:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 09:38:07 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 12 May 2005 16:38:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a1401c54b79$5c2dd240$e7627dc7@MICHELLE> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: linings, medieval patterns? Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:38:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 16:38:07.0256 (UTC) FILETIME=[F9D5D180:01C55710] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Or is there any other pattern you'd recommend to a sewing newbie > who would like to have a fairly correct silhouette? I know I'm late answering this, but try www.reconstructinghistory.com or http://www3.sympatico.ca/gousse-matte/fdl/Patterns.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 13:55:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CHtG5v011262 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CHsEYs003099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 11:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CHsAFc057659; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:54:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CHs5iw057538 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:54:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IGE00LZC1POJM@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:53:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.35] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.133]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Thu, 12 May 2005 13:53:49 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:53:49 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? To: Historical Costume Message-id: <2c1b3862c13b83.2c13b832c1b386@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll put in my 2 cents here -- My favorite is Black & Decker. No frills, good construction, medium weight (not too light - not too heavy), good steam coverage, easy to use. I bought one in 1986 to take to college. It broke only once (in '96 IIRC) - and that was the temperature knob, and the B&D store replaced the iron for free! Just this week I had to throw out that iron - It finally stopped working altogether. So I'm on the hunt for another B&D iron. I think that paying $32 for over 19 years of service is a good investment. Katheryne ps - the statement about spray-starch is correct. I use Niagara and it is a wonder!!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 14:12:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CICdXr011399 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CIBnYs005041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 12:11:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIBjuC071908; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav7.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIBb7e071738 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:11:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:11:29 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 12 May 2005 18:11:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002c01c55333$eef5a280$c0450144@Mischele> <5.1.0.14.2.20050508191124.014d7980@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kingdom of Heaven - tangent Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:06:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 18:11:29.0888 (UTC) FILETIME=[05439E00:01C5571E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Not quite late enough I know, but some people seem to think that the > "Bayeux Tapestry" shows Norman knights and foot soldiers in trousers. Uh, well... IMHO they're almost childish drawings, just lines basically, and it would be pretty hard to judge from them if the legwear was tight-fitting or not, unless you examine elements other than tightness of the legwear. Not to mention that the characters are small. The tapestry is 2 ft high. (And something like 207 long, iirc :-) It was embroidered, not woven, with little consideration for colour-matching, except that skin is often and chainmail a kind of pale blue-green. >From what I've seen/heard so far, hose wasn't necessarily skin-tight, not the way leggings are today, so they might easily be mistaken for trousers on that kind of tapestry. Or trousers might be mistaken for hose :-) I'm really not an expert in the period. I'm just saying that the Bayeux tapestry might not be the most efficient of sources to look at. I flipped through my 1/7 size repro of it, and saw nothing that looked like trousers. Most look definitely like hose. A lot of them, there's nothing that tells me one way or the other. A lot of men have bands on their lower legs, as if they had cris-crossed bands, sometimes on the calf, sometimes going as low as the ankle, holding their legwear. Some seem bare-legged and have their tunics brought up high and between their legs so we can see their leg up to the hip. No women, except I think two or three of them in the upper and lower bands, and I think they're all naked. Most of the men are in armour, some reaching to the ankle, most stopping at the knee, with regular legwear sticking out. The only ones I see who could be wearing trousers are the archers. But that could be some kind of protective leather garment. I bet a lot of guys would be very, very glad if we could find a real example of trousers in period :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 14:13:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CIDeZ4011404 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:13:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CID3Ys005191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 12:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CID21C073019; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:13:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CICv9q072925 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:13:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EF73C541 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:12:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 844E914B45 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:12:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: SCA v Renfaire ......Swat that fairy, make 'em scream Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:12:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh thats not training thats common sense. The training is getting him to wear it in the first place. You go girl! De -----Original Message----- And I have the husband trained, he's decided that 100% linen, period constructed shirts are the most comfortable :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 14:22:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CIMMQJ011446 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CIJeYs005981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 12:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIJX8i078220; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:19:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc1-s22.bay6.hotmail.com (omc1-s22.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.248.224]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIJSqr078102 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:19:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.93]) by omc1-s22.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 12 May 2005 11:19:23 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:19:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV21.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 12 May 2005 18:19:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1><200505072347.j47NlH5K006033@net.indra.com><5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> <4.3.1.2.20050509120242.025e0d60@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:19:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 18:19:23.0278 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F6D32E0:01C5571F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I wouldn't call the SCA a re-enactment society, but more of a history club > with costumed gatherings. That's the best definition I've heard in a long time! And yes, I'm SCA :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 14:29:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CITSIp011765 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:29:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CISrYs006900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 12:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CISnnl085580; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:28:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CISiYx085499 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:28:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1D43C58C for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:28:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E052F14ACA for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 13:28:43 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:28:44 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To an extent I would agree. It is more of a recreationist group then an reinactment group. De -----Original Message----- > I wouldn't call the SCA a re-enactment society, but more of a history club > with costumed gatherings. That's the best definition I've heard in a long time! And yes, I'm SCA :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 14:32:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CIWOBK011846 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:32:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CIVqYs007215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 12:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIVect087828; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:31:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav7.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIUm3c086919 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:31:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:30:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 12 May 2005 18:30:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <427FD08F.1060804@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: French costume movies Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:25:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 18:30:43.0052 (UTC) FILETIME=[B49A7AC0:01C55720] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I saw a performance of the play "Cyrano de Bergerac" at ACT in San (snip) > into a hanky. Even though I thought, and still think, the characters are > all blithering idiots, lacking even elementary common sense. Isn't that a common occurence during Romaticism? I think it's all part of the "standard" of the period. Makes it more "dramatic", I guess :-) > I can't find a recording of "Beaumarchais l'Insolent," I just looked. There's a few copies on Amazon, some in French, some in English. So it should exist *somewhere*. I think it's only in VHS though. I hope they make a DVD of it at some point. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 14:58:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CIwIsC012042 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:58:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CIuwYs012720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 12:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIutJh010896; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:56:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav8.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIuptr010766 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:56:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:56:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV8.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 12 May 2005 18:56:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4281DBE5.7000705@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A bit more on the trousers guy Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:51:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 18:56:46.0245 (UTC) FILETIME=[5856CD50:01C55724] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > "As a further example, jogging pants are actually authentic. People have > been wearing loose-fitting cotton breeches with drawstrings since > pre-Roman times. You show up wearing nothing but jogging pants, and you're > a completely authentic Celt." > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent My guess? He's pulling your leg. Probably trying to test how much he can push before you get mad at him. Probably not part of the SCA, but met them and thinks they're ridiculous and stupid. My advice? Just drop it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 16:16:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CKGB3f012650 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 16:16:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CKFEYs024695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 14:15:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CKF5BP076789; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CKEvBT076688 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:15:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CKErIC026798 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 16:14:53 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.88.212] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-212.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.212]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CKEtMH271954 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 16:14:56 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050512130640.025e0c88@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:14:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> <200505072347.j47NlH5K006033@net.indra.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050509151444.014d7a90@127.0.0.1> <4.3.1.2.20050509120242.025e0d60@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I wouldn't call the SCA a re-enactment society, but more of a history >>club with costumed gatherings. > >That's the best definition I've heard in a long time! And yes, I'm SCA :-) I do first-person-interpretation docenting, Ren. Faire, and the SCA, depending on how I feel like participating. At Ren. Faire there's plenty of scope for playing a historical persona but very little space for doing arts and crafts not for sale. At an SCA event there's plenty of space for doing arts and crafts not for sale, but 'nobody' plays a historical persona. At the site where I docent, I can do 19th or early 20th century, which I like better anyway, and play a historical persona. So I do all three, and live action role playing when I don't want to do a historical persona. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 19:51:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4CNpSua014472 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 19:51:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4CNoZYs020555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 17:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CNoSnc048179; Thu, 12 May 2005 17:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CNoMF7048122 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 17:50:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail2.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.185]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id E35CE43E99 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:50:20 +1000 (EST) Received: from b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au (b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au [203.100.229.188]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:50:15 +1000 Message-ID: <1115941815.4283ebb78454a@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:50:15 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? References: <00c101c556eb$e86ba840$735183d1@rmitchellras> <005c01c556f3$f7975960$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> In-Reply-To: <005c01c556f3$f7975960$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, this little black duck agrees that much of the modern stuff in these shows is not pertinant to the re-creation. I can accept that people's opinions must be canvassed as they go along but the whole idea of a broadcast camera in your face while trying to re-create the 1800s defeats the purpose. Outside interferance is as inevitable as going to, say, an SCA event and hearing a bus drive by. As a side bar, I recall the instance in the other reality show, Survivor, where a contestant fell into a fire and had to be airlifed out - if they were really creating a marooned situation, he should have been left in the care of his tribe mates. What I am thinking is that there is no true reality on reality TV shows just as I once saw a group of party girls at a Viking re-creation feast asking when the dance music came on, -C. > > As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend time ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 12 23:34:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4D3YKPk015882 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 23:34:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4D3XVYs009547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 May 2005 21:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D3XLJe077400; Thu, 12 May 2005 21:33:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f15.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D3XIZT077348 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 21:33:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauradi7@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 20:33:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.200 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 May 2005 03:33:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.200] X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com] X-Sender: lauradi7@hotmail.com From: "Laura Dickerson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: [h-cost] Colonial House/Pioneer House reviews? Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 03:33:12 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2005 03:33:12.0834 (UTC) FILETIME=[7DC90E20:01C5576C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The families in every series had an idea beforehand that being away from distractions like TV and the internet and the stresses of modern life would bring them closer together and give them a calmer life. The ideal of "the good old days" at its worst, really. I think it's useful for random viewers who might have such romantic notions to think about what might be *really* stressful (like having the crop fail, or living so close to your loved ones that you never have privacy). I thought there was much to be learned in each series, mixed among the irritating bits. The Frontier house people did the worst job of living in the clothes (and one of the families cheated quite a bit) but I loved the visual of women churning. Even when they were sitting complaining to the personal video cam or chatting with each other, that arm was going up and down, up and down, just as in earlier times they would have been perpetually spinning. Laura Dickerson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 02:19:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4D6Jqje023404 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 02:19:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4D6JMYs021838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 00:19:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D6JIuP061462; Fri, 13 May 2005 00:19:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D6JDQ0061397 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 00:19:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005051306190701500d25pde>; Fri, 13 May 2005 06:19:07 +0000 Message-ID: <009701c55783$ab2e7cd0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 02:19:06 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Harper's Weekly X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4D6Jqje023404 Status: RO I found several issues of Harper's Weekly online... http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/civil-war-1862.htm It is a really nice website. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 02:35:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4D6Zinr028388 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 02:35:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4D6YsYs022675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 00:34:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D6YnaO068505; Fri, 13 May 2005 00:34:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au (adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au [143.216.236.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D6YfSW068382 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 00:34:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tonkin.rebecca@saugov.sa.gov.au) Received: from adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au OUTGOING (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4D6YYJB003281 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:04:34 +0930 (CST)' Received: from sagemsbb012.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au (sagemsbb012.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au [143.216.59.22]) by adl0728.systems.sa.gov.au INCOMING (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4D6YYRo003272 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:04:34 +0930 (CST)' Received: by sagemsbb012.sagemsmrd01.sa.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:04:34 +0930 Message-ID: From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:04:24 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: a good question - cock-pit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi: The "cock pit" was the place where fighting roosters slugged it out for the entertainment (and possibly profit, via betting) of the men that went there. Women, AFAIK, did not visit. It comes under the same sort of thing as bull and badger-baiting. HTH, Rebecca > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:45:45 -0400 > From: "Penny Ladnier" > Subject: [h-cost] A good question > > I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka > Duchess of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps > referring to the people of the court going to the cockpit in > London. What is a cockpit? > > <<>> > > Penny Ladnier, owner _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 04:47:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4D8lmnK030418 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 04:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4D8l7Ys011796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 02:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D8l3vs030527; Fri, 13 May 2005 02:47:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D8kxFa030428 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 02:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-62-184.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.62.184]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j4D9klXL030372 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:46:54 +1000 Message-ID: <000401c55797$b06f75a0$b83ed9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505101801.j4AI0vnT060539@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On our way out of Merzouga, i picked up two young French hitch > hikers. After mentioning that we were from California, the young > woman said that the landscape must be very different from CA. I said > there were deserts in California and she very clearly did not believe > me, having another common stereotype, that California is all sunny > palm-tree lined beaches, which even many Americans hold. > > Anahita Are you telling me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years ;-) I mean the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but politicians there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows everyone else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? Surely Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra, Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 05:22:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4D9MtYw003739 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 05:22:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4D9MFYs017425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 03:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D9MD0N046808; Fri, 13 May 2005 03:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D9MB97046747 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 03:22:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005051309220601500d15c1e>; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:22:06 +0000 Message-ID: <00b701c5579d$3b152290$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505120414.j4C4EObN017734@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Magazines Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 05:22:05 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Becky, I wish you the best of luck with your new adventure! Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 08:54:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DCsxHu020240 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 08:54:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DCrwYs005113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 06:53:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DCrshg052802; Fri, 13 May 2005 06:53:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4DCrqFk052738 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 06:53:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJKJ3DAR4429J for (sender ); Fri, 13 May 2005 05:52:51 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn76Agsc4w2Nc9k9uDf/qQTD+aGB0BYvTE/g== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KSVQVC95; Fri, 13 May 2005 05:52:34 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 07:25:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Message-ID: <20050513.072531.-108980309.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-8,10-18 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 6:3:1097458651 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry Tommy-guns. Karen Seamstrix Writing from Da Sout'side On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years > ;-) I mean > the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but > politicians > there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows > everyone > else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? > Surely > Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D > Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 09:21:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DDLdc0020487 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:21:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DDJjYs007099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 07:19:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DDJXnP067914; Fri, 13 May 2005 07:19:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DDJGnN067679 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 07:19:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-139-41.kc.res.rr.com [65.26.139.41]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j4DDJDoX020070 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 08:19:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "khanson" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:20:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <20050513.072531.-108980309.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't forget Texas, where everyone lives like they did on "Dallas". Talia -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Karen R Bergquist Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:26 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry Tommy-guns. Karen Seamstrix Writing from Da Sout'side On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years > ;-) I mean > the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but > politicians > there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows > everyone > else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? > Surely > Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D > Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 5/12/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 09:32:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DDWlUw020556 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DDWFYs007892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 07:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DDWBa8075548; Fri, 13 May 2005 07:32:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DDW6jB075484 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 07:32:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from wamui07.slb.atl.earthlink.net ([192.168.167.45]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DWaGs-0000ZJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:32:06 -0400 Message-ID: <4322560.1115991126078.JavaMail.root@wamui07.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:32:05 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: a good question - cock-pit Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO An earlier reference, but to the same thing, occurs in the Prologue to Shakespeare's Henry V: "...Can this cockpit hold The vasty fields of France? Or may we cram Within this wooden O the very casques That did affright the air at Agincourt?" Here Shakespeare calls his Globe a small, round place like those used for cock fights. The Rose, I believe, was used for bear-baiting as well as theatrical productions; I don't know if cock fights took place there, but the association of theater buildings and animal fights might have suggested the "cockpit" image to Shakespeare here. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" Sent: May 13, 2005 2:34 AM To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: [h-cost] RE: a good question - cock-pit Hi: The "cock pit" was the place where fighting roosters slugged it out for the entertainment (and possibly profit, via betting) of the men that went there. Women, AFAIK, did not visit. It comes under the same sort of thing as bull and badger-baiting. HTH, Rebecca > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:45:45 -0400 > From: "Penny Ladnier" > Subject: [h-cost] A good question > > I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka > Duchess of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps > referring to the people of the court going to the cockpit in > London. What is a cockpit? > > <<>> > > Penny Ladnier, owner _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 12:52:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DGqH3D023229 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:52:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DGoDYs028462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 10:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DGo7MI025489; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:50:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DGo1x8025366 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:50:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.100.137537d5 (15898) for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-r25 (mblk-r25.mblk.aol.com [152.163.179.15]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP id MAILINID91-3e1a4284dab11d8; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:49:53 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 12:49:53 -0400 Message-Id: <8C725F2EBC8A1B5-E40-23769@mblk-r25.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200505130620.j4D6K3TA061851@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by mblk-r25.sysops.aol.com (152.163.179.15) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 13 May 2005 12:49:53 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200505130620.j4D6K3TA061851@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.12281 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.179.15 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to the origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm interested in whether there are any similarities in how these garments developed. Extra credit if you suggest a book I can find at the library. :) Thanks, Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 13:16:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DHGtGW023631 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 13:16:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DHGGYs001572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 11:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DHGEg7046701; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:16:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DHG96l046569 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so859459nzn for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=VnXTvxAAp/sc4NIT1oYYeEGxw7a1JGqIu++CRYscosZ/sztC8qXBVI4QrmtCtxZigz/bZs9T9lZUG6XgQzc+Mof/1srh/+s49deHLvNfYMeleUwEXSYgcGEP7sL+eaVRj7nYHhD7fp/WsuKoO7zSslkv5br66gMhnWybDtY+WsI= Received: by 10.36.148.14 with SMTP id v14mr1183826nzd; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:16:03 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Subject: [h-cost] A good question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4DHG96l046569 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a cockpit? <<>> Cockfight occurs in a pit. It's an extremely lowbrow gambling opportunity. It would be interesting to hear/read what the Duchess had to say about her peers & cockfighting, --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 13:36:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DHaUlt023729 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 13:36:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DHZkYs003936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 11:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DHZitZ062447; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4DHZfBB062395 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:35:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from unicorn@surewest.net) Received: (s3-18025); Fri, 13 May 2005 10:34:14 -0700 Received: from unknown (HELO Cyhiraeth) (69.4.129.138) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:33:58 -0700 Message-ID: <004601c557e2$2184e4b0$6601a8c0@Cyhiraeth> From: "Joan Broneske" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050513.072531.-108980309.0.penhalion@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:35:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=69.4.129.138 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I believe the term is now "Gangsta'" and the weapon of choice would be a 9 mm or "deuce deuce" ;-) . /' // . // |\//7 /' " \ . . . | ( \ '._ | '._ ' '. ' / \'-'_---. ) ) . :.' | \ | . . . . ' . | | | \^ /_-': / / | | '\ .' / /| | \\ | \ \( ) // / \ | | // / L! ! // / Joan Broneske [_] L[_| unicorn@surewest.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen R Bergquist" To: Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:25 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > Tommy-guns. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > Writing from Da Sout'side > > On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling > me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years >> ;-) I mean >> the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but >> politicians >> there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows >> everyone >> else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? >> Surely >> Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D >> Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 13:36:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DHatjF023733 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 13:36:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DHaTYs003993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 11:36:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DHaTOq062990; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:36:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4DHaPiu062884 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:36:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 17:36:20 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050513183228.014d8990@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:36:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] A good question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:16 13/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess >of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the >people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a >cockpit? > ><<>> > >Cockfight occurs in a pit. It's an extremely lowbrow gambling >opportunity. It would be interesting to hear/read what the Duchess >had to say about her peers & cockfighting, I would query that it is entirely low brow. Certainly later in the 18th and early 19th century, all forms of fighting contests were a draw for the "toffs". Cock fighting and bare knuckle fighting come under that banner. If the people of the court were going, surely that means that it might have been considered low brow but the courtiers went slumming all the same? (You still find dogs fights - highly illegal - in South London where I live.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 14:17:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DIHI9O024000 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DIFrYs007887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 12:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DIFom5093769; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:15:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f40.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DIDxr8092346 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:13:53 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 13 May 2005 18:13:53 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 04:13:53 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2005 18:13:53.0628 (UTC) FILETIME=[855A59C0:01C557E7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I made a pair of trousers following the remains detailed in the first Haithabu publication on textiles (Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von Haithabu, Hägg, 1984) and it was quite easy to see how closely they follow the “original” pattern of the pants found in Thorsberg. Apart from the fact that the remains of the trouser legs were probably double layers (the fabric was *very* fine) and the orientation and structure of the leg remains indicated that they were probably wide, not narrow, there was virtually no difference. I should have phrased the “exactly the same” differently, sorry, what I meant to say was that the parts that define this particular cut (cause others are different) are the same. The same dimensions, however, are not that hard to come to terms with, when you assume a similar built of the wearer, with the assumption that there might not have been as much physical diversity then as there is nowadays (which is clearly an assumption, no proof, but a feasible one). It took me a little time to work it all out (and I am German), but then again after all, those publications are not meant to be sewing patterns for Living History enthusiasts …. There are quite a few pieces of the crotch area preserved, not only a triangular piece, in fact, all of the separate pieces from the Thorsberg cut are there as well and they can be connected by means of thread remains, weave direction, colour and other clues I don’t remember from the top of my head. It also comes down to reading through the text, since the photos and drawings are (unfortunately) not always reliable (I have found a few images mixed up). But it definitely is not just a case of: well, this triangular piece looks like it could be…… etc,. A piece of scrap fabric that is made up to look like the original remains doesn't necessarily show you the connections to other bits that the original had. I agree, published opinion makes sometimes big leaps of faith in some cases, this one (my own humble opinion) is not one of them. Other remains of trousers in Haithabu have left less clues, the waistbands with beltloops are mostly what remains and there is one other find of creped wool in a double layer fabric remains in the settlement, but with no certain indication whether or not they belong to trousers apart from the obvious similarity in weave and the layers. I have received a reply to my query about the new C14 dating, but even the person I have the rumour from doesn’t have anything to back it up and only refers to it as a rumour himself ... sorry guys, I will try to track some more info, but it might take a while. Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 14:40:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DIeeb8024164 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DIduYs010553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 12:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DIdsH7012645; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DIdnWI012571 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from someone@eskimo.com) Received: from pamscomputer (c-67-183-235-191.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [67.183.235.191]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j4DIWckq028043 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:32:39 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01c557eb$26a70be0$0202a8c0@pamscomputer> From: "Pam and David Dotson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:39:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And then there's the Seattle area, where we all wear plaid shirts, listen to grunge music, and work for Microsoft! :) Pam Dotson Everett, WA (where my husband works for Boeing) ----- Original Message ----- From: "khanson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 6:20 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > Don't forget Texas, where everyone lives like they did on "Dallas". > > Talia > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Karen R Bergquist > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:26 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > > > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > Tommy-guns. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > Writing from Da Sout'side > > On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling > me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years >> ;-) I mean >> the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but >> politicians >> there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows >> everyone >> else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? >> Surely >> Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D >> Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.9 - Release Date: 5/12/2005 > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 14:49:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DInACC024237 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:49:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DIlKYs011838 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 12:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DIlA6t019459; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:47:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DIl0Au019292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DWfBN-0001F0-2y; Fri, 13 May 2005 13:46:45 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 13:46:44 -0500 Message-ID: <20050513134644.zq1sfyzkx8gwg8sg@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:46:44 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or Tennessee, where we can't talk good, all go barefoot, don't go no indoor plumbing and marry our kin. Susan Quoting khanson : > Don't forget Texas, where everyone lives like they did on "Dallas". > > Talia > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Karen R Bergquist > > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > Tommy-guns. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > Writing from Da Sout'side > > On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling > me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years >> ;-) I mean >> the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but >> politicians >> there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows >> everyone >> else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? >> Surely >> Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D >> Elizabeth ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 15:08:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DJ81mr024406 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:08:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DJ7GYs014125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 13:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DJ7CCV035442; Fri, 13 May 2005 13:07:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DJ78Uh035316 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 13:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AACD173900BC; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:06:53 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.106 ([209.131.81.106] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 13 May 05 19:06:41 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c557ef$2d9b9b60$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050513134644.zq1sfyzkx8gwg8sg@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:08:40 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or SW Pa.where belly buttons are in season, allw words ending with "L" have a silent "w". Yuns know what I mean?"Willw you go to a stillw millw?" Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:46 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > Or Tennessee, where we can't talk good, all go barefoot, don't go no indoor > plumbing and marry our kin. > > Susan > > Quoting khanson : > > > Don't forget Texas, where everyone lives like they did on "Dallas". > > > > Talia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Karen R Bergquist > > > > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill > > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > > Tommy-guns. > > > > > > Karen > > Seamstrix > > Writing from Da Sout'side > > > > On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling > > me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years > >> ;-) I mean > >> the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but > >> politicians > >> there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows > >> everyone > >> else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? > >> Surely > >> Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D > >> Elizabeth > > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 16:28:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DKSaDs024986 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:28:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DKRuYs024661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 14:27:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DKRHZ7001594; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:27:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DKRCIX001463 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IGG00IRU3GZGG@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.34] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.160]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Fri, 13 May 2005 16:27:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:27:07 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris To: Historical Costume Message-id: <30a1f9430a1d69.30a1d6930a1f94@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hhmm,,, I'm on another group that talks all about 'draped fabrics' it is .... search, search,,, grumble grumbe.... AH! idcmembers@yahoogroups.com you have to be a member of the group to acess the archives - but they give WONDERFUL articles about all kinds of draped clothing from saris to kilts. Hope this helps. Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- From: tearoses@aol.com > Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to > the origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm interested in whether there are any similarities in how these garments developed. > > Thanks, > Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 17:14:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DLE9xX025345 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:14:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DLDMYs001564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 15:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DLDIpT040075; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4DLDDM3039889 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.29 with login) by smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 May 2005 21:13:08 -0000 Message-ID: <00b701c55800$935a9a80$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050513134644.zq1sfyzkx8gwg8sg@www.goldsword.com> <002101c557ef$2d9b9b60$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:13:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Or SW Pa.where belly buttons are in season, allw words ending with "L" have > a silent "w". Yuns know what I mean?"Willw you go to a stillw millw?" Ohio. Nothing but flat farmland, lots of pickup trucks, and extraneous "r's" in words. You know...the capital of the US is Warshington, DC. I won't even talk about misconceptions of Canada. You know, dogsled races and igloos in Toronto, that sort of thing. Susan Ohio-bred Ontarian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 17:30:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DLUueC025734 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DLU4Ys003667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 15:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DLU0Av053632; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:30:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DLTokD053472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4DLMMmT025513 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:22:22 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42851C4C.2090204@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:29:48 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: OT: Canada Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question References: <20050513134644.zq1sfyzkx8gwg8sg@www.goldsword.com> <002101c557ef$2d9b9b60$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <00b701c55800$935a9a80$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> In-Reply-To: <00b701c55800$935a9a80$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > I won't even talk about misconceptions of Canada. You know, dogsled races > and igloos in Toronto, that sort of thing. Anyone interested in the above line should read this piece of impromptu theater about the Great Canadian Wallpaper Festival : http://www.ealdormere.sca.org/funny_wpaper.shtml -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 18:10:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DMAk4C026396 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 18:10:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DM9pYs013990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 16:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DM8WXk088935; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:09:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DM78Y7087646 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 463891800209 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 22:06:58 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.32) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 13 May 2005 22:06:58 -0000 Received: by ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 32D473384B; Fri, 13 May 2005 22:06:58 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.6; A1.17; B2.12; Q2.03) Received: from [149.169.241.66] by ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:06:58 -0500 X-Mailer: mail.lycos.com webmail From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:06:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.241.66 X-Originating-Server: ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050513220658.32D473384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4DM78Y7087646 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Tea Rose: > > Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to > the origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm > interested in whether there are any similarities in how these > garments developed. _The Sari_ has some good information about the recent development of the sari. You might also check out the archives of the SCA_India yahoogroup for bibliographical information. There are also some good websites on the topic, although the ones that deal with pre-19th century dress tend to foucus on one time/place rather than giving a survey. Based on what I've read, I don't think that there are a lot of similarities in terms of the development of the actual garment. As I understand it, the kilt sarted out as a large mantle/blanket thing that eventually starts being pleated into a skirt-like garment, and then the sewn little kilt happens. The sari, as far as can be told, starts out as something that is always worn draped and pleated into various configurations, including some drapes that are more pants-like. However, there are some similarities. Both have become the symbolicly important "national dress" of their country, and in both cases the current "correct" manner of wearing the garment is a 19th century development. -Katie -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 18:37:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DMbH04026579 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 18:37:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DMaRYs018611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 16:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DMaONk012092; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:36:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4DMaJhY011957 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 16:36:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJLL7SAAYBGPA for (sender ); Fri, 13 May 2005 15:35:28 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn72Ebl0cCK5mXZfL2utcFwbFJMwnsFKvW5A== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KSWR8AXK; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:35:15 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:32:05 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris Message-ID: <20050513.173205.-732787.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-10,12-35 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 10:5:305270786 X-MAIL-INFO: 508dbd41bd1da5f91da539e1a5394decc525cc9955b125450ded5565457c6d78452d01fc8da88d292c390ca58de1 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One good book on Sari's is (not surprisingly) "The Sari" by Linda Lynton ISBN 0-500-28378-8 Thames and Hudson Publishers. The late Chantal Boulanger wrote a classic text on various sari drapes- "Saris: An Illustrated Guide to the Art of Indian Draping" ISBN 0-9661496-1-0 Shakti Press International. And for a view of the cultural aspects of wearing sari- "The Sari" by Mukulika Banjeree and Daniel Miller ISBN1-85973-732-3 Berg Publishing Sorry, I don' t have any good texts specifically on the history of the kilt. Karen Seamstrix On Fri, 13 May 2005 12:49:53 -0400 tearoses@aol.com writes: > Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to > the origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm interested > in whether there are any similarities in how these garments > developed. > > Extra credit if you suggest a book I can find at the library. :) > > Thanks, > Tea Rose > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 19:16:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4DNGebY027004 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:16:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DNG1Ys022517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 17:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DNFxtR039801; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:15:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DNFumh039714 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:15:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.50.173.103]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050513231550.WDYM19200.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:15:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000101c55812$46b12fc0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:00:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh jeez eh? Canada is full of plaid shirt wearing yokels living in permanent winter, regardless of *where* in the country you are.... Sheridan ;-) (Damn, gotta let the polar bear outta my igloo again....) ----- Original Message ----- From: "khanson" > Don't forget Texas, where everyone lives like they did on "Dallas". > > Talia > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Karen R Bergquist >> > > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > Tommy-guns. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > Writing from Da Sout'side > > On Thu, 12 May 2005 23:01:48 +1000 "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling > me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years > > ;-) I mean > > the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but > > politicians > > there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody knows > > everyone > > else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? > > Surely > > Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D > > Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 21:01:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4E11Tnk029108 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 21:01:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4E10hYs003033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 19:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E10Xvr001155; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from misc.com (misc.com [130.94.190.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E10POh001111 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from theresa@misc.com) Received: (qmail 7736 invoked by uid 16115); 14 May 2005 01:00:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO misc.com) ([69.107.107.97]) (envelope-sender ) by 130.94.190.243 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 14 May 2005 01:00:25 -0000 Message-ID: <42854C9C.3000403@misc.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:55:56 -0700 From: Theresa Eacker User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20050513134644.zq1sfyzkx8gwg8sg@www.goldsword.com> <002101c557ef$2d9b9b60$6a5183d1@rmitchellras> <00b701c55800$935a9a80$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] territorial misconceptions was Another Kingdom of Heaven question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, wait a minute, Canadians _don't_ commute to work in dogsleds?!?! And don't eat frozen fish out of their own private ice holes behind their igloo, sweet igloo in their capital?!? HRMPH!! Meanwhile, we folks out here in the San Francisco Bay Area are on the verge of falling into the ocean with the next 'quake, hopefully taking our cornball politicians/actors with us. Oh, wait, that would remove the comic relief for everybody else in the country/continent!! Nothing like gaining perspective for our existence.....EH??? THeresa (feeling slightly wonky after painting on a hottish day) Eacker Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: (pruning...) > > I won't even talk about misconceptions of Canada. You know, dogsled races > and igloos in Toronto, that sort of thing. > > Susan > Ohio-bred Ontarian > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 22:05:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4E257wh029876 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 22:05:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4E24NYs008170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 20:04:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E24IXJ034567; Fri, 13 May 2005 20:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4E24FfA034487 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 20:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from btana@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail28.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.168]) by smtpout06.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJLZEBABUK5WA for (sender ); Fri, 13 May 2005 19:03:45 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: MW/ewWa+Q2FG65sHxVDc3bg244iz/StgqeGEcQfR76bjB9Xpr/XOyg== Received: (from btana@juno.com) by webmail28.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KSW55D44; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:03:23 PDT Received: from [4.228.123.249] by webmail28.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Sat, 14 May 2005 02:02:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [4.228.123.249] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "Astrid of the Horde" Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 02:02:35 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050513.190323.8685.3768@webmail28.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 3:5:214398273 X-MAIL-INFO: 16d0d5a5d43444d4f4cd34c444c4b17091b0b9891d79096495b091e4b5312409 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.168|webmail28.nyc.untd.com|outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com|btana@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 316 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of kilts, I've watched the list, and everyone seems to have great, trusted locations to purchase fabrics. I'm looking for someplace to purchase wool plaids suitable for kilts and in varying weights. One of the combinations of colors that I'm looking for is red, black, and gold. The rest of the group I'm part of is wanting to do more of the natural colors. If anyone can help me, it would be greatly appreciated. Astrid of the Horde Never argue with a Dragon, for thou art crunchy and go well with Brie. Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to the origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm interested in whether there are any similarities in how these garments developed. Extra credit if you suggest a book I can find at the library. :) Thanks, Tea Rose ___________________________________________________________________ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $4.97/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/half to sign up today! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 13 23:44:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4E3ipvi030560 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 23:44:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4E3i7Ys015650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 21:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E3i3si083548; Fri, 13 May 2005 21:44:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E3hh2q083408 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 21:44:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <200505140343370140036332e>; Sat, 14 May 2005 03:43:37 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c55837$1f16ca40$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] A good question Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:42:11 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, The whole bio of Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough is an interesting read. I am sure genealogist will even enjoy it because it provides the lineage on several persons in the court.. Sarah was the closest friend of Queen Anne and Mistress of the Wardrobes. You would think that means the keeper of Queen Anne's wardrobe. But it is actually a position as the head person in charge of the palace. To me, a person with little education, found it interesting that Sir Winston Churchill and Lady Diana Spenser are mentioned in Sarah's biography. This book was published in 1860. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 00:23:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4E4N7lH030735 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 00:23:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4E4MHYs018390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 22:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E4MCZO002720; Fri, 13 May 2005 22:22:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E4LxWf002593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 22:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4E5eISg004658 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 01:40:19 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: trousers Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 00:21:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505140021.52799.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4E4LxWf002593 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 13 May 2005 2:13 pm, C M wrote: > Hi, > > I made a pair of trousers following the remains detailed in the first > Haithabu publication on textiles (Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von Haithabu, > Hägg, 1984) and it was quite easy to see how closely they follow the > “original” pattern of the pants found in Thorsberg. Apart from the fact > that the remains of the trouser legs were probably double layers (the > fabric was *very* fine) and the orientation and structure of the leg > remains indicated that they were probably wide, not narrow, there was > virtually no difference. I should have phrased the “exactly the same” > differently, sorry, what I meant to say was that the parts that define this > particular cut (cause others are different) are the same. The same > dimensions, however, are not that hard to come to terms with, when you > assume a similar built of the wearer, with the assumption that there might > not have been as much physical diversity then as there is nowadays (which > is clearly an assumption, no proof, but a feasible one). Fair enough. If I could read German, I would probably try to track down the source you cite. > I have received a reply to my query about the new C14 dating, but even the > person I have the rumour from doesn’t have anything to back it up and only > refers to it as a rumour himself ... sorry guys, I will try to track some > more info, but it might take a while. Thanks for trying, though. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 01:17:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4E5Hpsv031117 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 01:17:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4E5GmYs027015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 13 May 2005 23:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E5Gjr2033983; Fri, 13 May 2005 23:16:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E5GWSM033751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 23:16:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4E6YlZC005259 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 02:34:51 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 01:16:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050513.173205.-732787.0.penhalion@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050513.173205.-732787.0.penhalion@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505140116.21493.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO tearoses@aol.com originally asked: >Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to the >origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm interested in whether >there are any similarities in how these garments developed. On Friday 13 May 2005 6:32 pm, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > One good book on Sari's is (not surprisingly) "The Sari" by Linda Lynton > ISBN 0-500-28378-8 Thames and Hudson Publishers. > > The late Chantal Boulanger wrote a classic text on various sari drapes- > "Saris: An Illustrated Guide to the Art of Indian Draping" > ISBN 0-9661496-1-0 Shakti Press International. I have these two books, and they are really good but they may not be quite what the original questioner is looking for. Lynton's book is full of full-color photographs and is particularly nice for getting a feel for the types of color schemes involved in regional variations, but I think all of the saris she photographs are 19th-20th c at the earliest (I'm not up for heading off to pull books off the shelf at this hour--sorry). Boulanger, on the other hand, was interested in how saris are *draped* in different parts of India. She consulted all kinds of sources to learn about drape variations--including traveling through India and asking dozens, if not hundreds, of women to show her how they drape their saris. If you need to know the dimensions of a sari used for a particular drape, or how to do the drape, or both, her book is a goldmine, but she doesn't have much history in there. The sari is the fundamental garment in India and its precursors go back to prehistory. There appears to be some debate on how long it has been customary for women in India to cover their breasts with something when wearing one. Anyway, I know of two books that deal with the history of Indian costume. Both give at least some attention to the historical evolution of the sari. I'll just give cites; if you locate them, you can read them and see what you think: Alkazi, Roshen. Ancient Indian Costume. National Book Trust, 1st ed. 1st reprint 1998. ISBN 81-237-1687-7. Covers mostly from prehistoric times to about 11th century. Fabri, Charles. Indian Dress. Sangam Books Limited, 1994. ISBN 0 86311 507 1. Covers from prehistoric times to about the end of the 19th century. > And for a view of the cultural aspects of wearing sari- > "The Sari" by Mukulika Banjeree and Daniel Miller > ISBN1-85973-732-3 Berg Publishing I'm not familiar with this book; sorry. > Sorry, I don' t have any good texts specifically on the history of the > kilt. Kass McGann discusses the evolution of the Scottish kilt in some detail on her site: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/scottish/kilts.html http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/scottish/beltedplaid.html http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/scottish/18thckilt.html (see other subsites under "Scottish" on the Recconstructing History's site menu). Here is another analysis of the evidence for the great kilt. This one assumes some familiarity with the issues and the problems with the evidence; Kass McGann's version is a better one to start with if you are coming to the subject with no prior knowledge about historic clothing in Scotland: http://www.medievalscotland.org/postings/periodbeltedplaid.shtml In my opinion, the long and short of it is this: the sari was worn, by men as well as women, in various forms in India starting from prehistoric times. The short "kilt" on the other hand, as we know it today, was an 18th c invention, and the so-called great kilt was essentially nothing more than a large piece of fabric used as a overcloak and called a "plaid"; the Irish had a similar garment; and any associations with "kilts" being Scottish started with the 18th c invention. But by all means, read these and other sources on both the sari and the kilt (and plaid) and evaluate them for yourself. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 06:10:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EAA61I031551 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 06:10:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EA9OYs000447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 04:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EA9Kwr074956; Sat, 14 May 2005 04:09:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EA9FpP074887 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 04:09:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-173-11-76.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.173.11.76]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j4EB95Xw014364 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 21:09:11 +1000 Message-ID: <008101c5586c$d3ed8c80$4c0badcb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050513.072531.-108980309.0.penhalion@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 20:08:02 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen R Bergquist" To: Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > Tommy-guns. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > Writing from Da Sout'side No I believe Chicago ceased to exist c. 1940 when other areas got more interesting, Texas ceased to exist c. 1900 (except for the ranches) because the Cowboys and Saloon girls all got married and bought their own ranches. (those who didn't died in gunfights for the former or a tragic disease for the latter). There are of course other cities that popped into existence fully formed c. 1980 (I can't think of names but I'm sure people who watch more films than I do can come up with something) To add my local bit to this discussion, Australians all talk like Steve Irwin (the crocodile Hunter) live in the outback (Australia of course has no cities), ride around on their pet Kangaroos and look like they haven't bathed for weeks. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 07:54:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EBsEkw002732 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 07:54:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EBrYYs008143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 05:53:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EBrVuq037568; Sat, 14 May 2005 05:53:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EBrRm5037507 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 05:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A6B03CBD0096; Sat, 14 May 2005 07:53:20 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.111 ([209.131.81.111] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 14 May 05 11:53:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c5587b$cc7887c0$6f5183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050513134644.zq1sfyzkx8gwg8sg@www.goldsword.com> <002101c557ef$2d9b9b60$6a5183d1@rmitchellras><00b701c55800$935a9a80$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> <42851C4C.2090204@thibault.org> Subject: Re: Canada Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 07:55:16 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Surely the last line should be Tempus Fudge It! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:29 PM Subject: OT: Canada Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > > > I won't even talk about misconceptions of Canada. You know, dogsled races > > and igloos in Toronto, that sort of thing. > > Anyone interested in the above line should read this piece of impromptu > theater about the Great Canadian Wallpaper Festival : > > http://www.ealdormere.sca.org/funny_wpaper.shtml > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to > take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 11:38:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EFck95004414 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 11:38:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EFcBYs023833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 09:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EFc6Mp072775; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:38:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EFc2K4072682 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:38:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.215.29.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.215.29]) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DWyiH-00041X-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 14 May 2005 08:38:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 08:37:57 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, when i lived in France in 1973, someone asked me where i was from - i had been living in California and become a citizen of that state, but i was born in Chicago. He immediately put his hands in front of his torso and went "Pah-pah-pah-pah-pah" and said "les gang-stair!" with great relish. He also asked if it was ever possible to get fresh fruits and vegetables in the US, since everyone knew that all Americans ate was frozen food... Sigh. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 12:05:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EG5U8Y004652 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 12:05:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EG4vYs027057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 10:04:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EG4t0U090996; Sat, 14 May 2005 10:04:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4EG4qpW090900 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 10:04:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJNJN2AW8DTMS for (sender ); Sat, 14 May 2005 09:04:40 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn72Ebl0cCK5mXfFHReyBz5inGy6q4GNzodA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KSYM8J2C; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:03:58 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:59:57 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Message-ID: <20050514.105957.-442387.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,9-35 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 11:5:1445360201 X-MAIL-INFO: 2655cd41cdfde419fde45110e45154f9e124a4ad50d124f41de0506df4d944a5f484b9d45549557dc9519de45510 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When my friend Robin and I were in England a few years back, we stopped to ask for directions at a pub in a small village (Road signs!! Put the road signs back up, the Nazis aren't coming!!!!). The guy behind the bar very cleverly noted that we weren't from around there (accents as flat as the Midwest we came from) and asked us where were from. When I answered 'We're from Chicago", he proceeded to duck down behind the bar and asked us not to shoot him.......sigh....we very patiently explained that they wouldn't let us bring our guns on the plane. Everybody's a comedian....... Karen Seamstrix On Sat, 14 May 2005 08:37:57 -0700 lilinah@earthlink.net writes: > Well, when i lived in France in 1973, someone asked me where i was > from - i had been living in California and become a citizen of that > > state, but i was born in Chicago. He immediately put his hands in > front of his torso and went "Pah-pah-pah-pah-pah" and said "les > gang-stair!" with great relish. He also asked if it was ever > possible > to get fresh fruits and vegetables in the US, since everyone knew > that all Americans ate was frozen food... Sigh. > > Anahita > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 12:18:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EGIfHf004744 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 12:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EGHrYs027865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 10:17:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EGHqxn098885; Sat, 14 May 2005 10:17:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from seasat.systems.viatel.net (seasat.systems.viatel.net [135.196.68.13]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EGHnmu098836 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 10:17:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from serena@pemberleydesigns.co.uk) Received: from [135.196.230.193] (helo=SERENA) by seasat.systems.viatel.net with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DWzKh-0006e1-MY for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sat, 14 May 2005 17:17:43 +0100 From: "Serena Dyer" To: Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 17:17:45 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Evolution of Fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am planning to make up a pair of gentelman's breeches from the 1780 section of 'The Evolution of Fashion: Pattern and Cut from 1066 to 1930' by Margot Hamilton and wondered if anyone could give me any advice about how to go about it. I have made breeches before, but never from this pattern and I am a little dubious about them for unknown reasons! Any experience from any of the other patterns in the book would also be nice to hear about, as I am planning to use a few of the other patterns in the future. Thanks, Serena http://www.pemberleydesigns.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 13:47:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EHlmeI006056 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 13:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EHl6Ys006100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 11:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EHl30b057591; Sat, 14 May 2005 11:47:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52809.mail.yahoo.com (web52809.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4EHl1kQ057485 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 11:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 3525 invoked by uid 60001); 14 May 2005 17:46:55 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Lttbj6fNtqM7/JE1WdNxO6UhvRhQ2muB46wmP0igyJNqqhzlCyeMuxymGufUnINm/NCUL1OE/lr3bhTT2qtqfy6FxL23zS1+63PrrRk6eXINOQiwkWXMrHEMpySp4D/9bncM8/JdOr0Y+28Sk0d8Lrvgvj10hGltFTyz0j9qE9s= ; Message-ID: <20050514174655.3523.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.29.13] by web52809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2005 10:46:55 PDT Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] A good question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-317303575-1116092815=:2389" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --0-317303575-1116092815=:2389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Id: Content-Disposition: inline Never got this to show up, so I'm sending it again -- if it comes up twice, I apologize! KP Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --0-317303575-1116092815=:2389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --0-317303575-1116092815=:2389-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 14:58:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EIwI4E006775 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 14:58:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EIvNYs012147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 12:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EIvKuj002471; Sat, 14 May 2005 12:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4EIvFZC002373 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 12:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 May 2005 18:57:09 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050514195320.014d8b78@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 19:57:16 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Evolution of Fashion In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:17 14/05/2005 +0100, you wrote: >I am planning to make up a pair of gentelman's breeches from the 1780 >section of 'The Evolution of Fashion: Pattern and Cut from 1066 to 1930' by >Margot Hamilton and wondered if anyone could give me any advice about how to >go about it. I have made breeches before, but never from this pattern and I >am a little dubious about them for unknown reasons! > >Any experience from any of the other patterns in the book would also be nice >to hear about, as I am planning to use a few of the other patterns in the >future. I have been unhappy about several of the patterns in this book. The Henry Vlll style surcoat/top coat/ whatever is not the way I would make it. It is, however, a while since I looked at it. I would recommend you look at Norah Waugh's "Cut of Men's Clothes" or "Men's 17th and 18th Century Garments" by R.I. Davis before you make any final decision. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 15:09:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EJ9711006869 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 15:09:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EJ8RYs013096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 13:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EJ8Qvi009422; Sat, 14 May 2005 13:08:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EJ8NwC009319 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 13:08:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1062613nzn for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=EtmDHyyJ/KoOAAONTrNRHmNO0iaA5cy+5Ax4QYB+tC034auJy/969/yz9MM3QfQd6DPsQdUqV5At3InjHAuw53ZouCld+mKV6QMBGQiGCPwKF9mrHg1rKWtI1wicaWGkm6rRfohbhMtI5ARWvy/CaheFV353+NiK0ODiLq/dWQU= Received: by 10.36.141.8 with SMTP id o8mr1400605nzd; Sat, 14 May 2005 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2005 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 12:08:17 -0700 From: Cin To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4EJ8NwC009319 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: A good question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sounds lovely if somewhat hard to find. Are you having the whole thing transcribed or just the costume related bits? --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com Cynthia, The whole bio of Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough is an interesting read... Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 16:25:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4EKPqMI007583 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 16:25:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EKP6Ys018810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 14:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EKOwsL057567; Sat, 14 May 2005 14:24:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxv2.wvu.edu (mxv2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.123]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EKOssb057457 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 14:24:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxv2.wvu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4EKOlxl013406 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 16:24:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 14 May 2005 16:24:47 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 16:24:11 -0400 From: "Rhonda Donaldson" To: , Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO and we all know that West Virginia women are always barefoot and pregnant. Plus we have no indoor toilets or running water. Let's not forget about all chewing tobaccie and livin up the hollas with our rusting cars on bricks in the front yard. Just thought I'd add a bit of my 2 cents Rhonda Rhonda Donaldson LTA II e-Reserves Jr. Guru in Training Circulation Department Downtown Campus Library P O Box 6069 Morgantown, WV 26506 293-4040 x4094 rhonda.donaldson@mail.wvu.edu "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." --Frank Herbert >>> ewalpole@iimetro.com.au 5/14/2005 6:08:02 AM >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen R Bergquist" To: Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters who kill > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > Tommy-guns. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > Writing from Da Sout'side No I believe Chicago ceased to exist c. 1940 when other areas got more interesting, Texas ceased to exist c. 1900 (except for the ranches) because the Cowboys and Saloon girls all got married and bought their own ranches. (those who didn't died in gunfights for the former or a tragic disease for the latter). There are of course other cities that popped into existence fully formed c. 1980 (I can't think of names but I'm sure people who watch more films than I do can come up with something) To add my local bit to this discussion, Australians all talk like Steve Irwin (the crocodile Hunter) live in the outback (Australia of course has no cities), ride around on their pet Kangaroos and look like they haven't bathed for weeks. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 20:04:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4F04qgB009442 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 20:04:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4F03rYs005327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 18:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F01TxR086083; Sat, 14 May 2005 18:01:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52805.mail.yahoo.com (web52805.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.169]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4F01RD2086010 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 18:01:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 3575 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2005 00:01:22 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=qh6WAudmQqVDw5LD1x/HBhK5y0UQQfdQyIp3ORCrLubw+4RDeGt0VQkw5f3zDCIgCNeiAHK9PeTcxTaEUL9+GCivTFHpzm7EWV2MgrXNgpXCrZW54xeklntTpnfZ2RFuNU2uGPjqw5PmV4yi00oyo84/gDigdY9MViUKGiw7QIg= ; Message-ID: <20050515000122.3573.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2005 17:01:22 PDT Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 17:01:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] A good question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cock fighting was just one alternative to bull baiting and bear baiting, another of the hideous blood sports adored by our forebears. In bull and bear baiting, a bull or bear would be tied to a stake and set upon by dogs (usually mastiffs or something of that ilk -- the English Bulldog was originally bred for this, and was much taller then), although not always until the bull or bear was killed, because bears and bulls were expensive. They could be killed, of course, but those who lived to fight many fights gained some reknown in their own right, like Sackerson the bear (mentioned in at least one Shakespeare play), and of course the dogs were often killed. An occasional variant was to tie a monkey to the back of a pony or donkey and set dogs after the terrified twosome -- I'm sure the pony would be killed, and probably the monkey as well, as they weren't as costly to replace. There was a huge pit for these kinds of contests outside the Globe Theater (or at least near it)! , and of course there were many others. The practice continued for some time, and yes, like cock fighting, the nobles loved it -- Elizabeth I was very fond of the "sport." Ick -- KP Suzi Clarke wrote: At 10:16 13/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess >of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the >people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a >cockpit? > ><<>> > >Cockfight occurs in a pit. It's an extremely lowbrow gambling >opportunity. It would be interesting to hear/read what the Duchess >had to say about her peers & cockfighting, I would query that it is entirely low brow. Certainly later in the 18th and early 19th century, all forms of fighting contests were a draw for the "toffs". Cock fighting and bare knuckle fighting come under that banner. If the people of the court were going, surely that means that it might have been considered low brow but the courtiers went slumming all the same? (You still find dogs fights - highly illegal - in South London where I live.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 22:14:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4F2EvAO010522 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:14:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4F2EIYs013058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 20:14:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F2EFPp061173; Sat, 14 May 2005 20:14:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F2ECv1061153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 20:14:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-244.sonic.net [209.148.114.244]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F2EB7K018692 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 19:14:11 -0700 Message-ID: <4286B079.2080501@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 19:14:17 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A good question References: <20050515000122.3573.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050515000122.3573.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/877/Sat May 14 17:27:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/877/Sat May 14 17:27:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I sent a message on this a couple of days ago but have not seen it posted. The Cockpit was the London residence of Princess Anne (to whom Sarah Jennings was lady-in-waiting) and Prince George. Their social and political circle was known as the Cockpit Circle. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com > >I would query that it is entirely low brow. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 23:01:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4F31gNU011000 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 23:01:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4F30pYs017113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 21:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F30oqa088151; Sat, 14 May 2005 21:00:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F30lIT088086 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 21:00:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005051503004201100jquk1e>; Sun, 15 May 2005 03:00:42 +0000 Message-ID: <002801c558fa$4b04a0f0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A good question Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:00:47 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We are typing the entire book, Queens of Society. After the 1860 and 1862 publications, the book was divided up into two books and two other books were written for etiquette. This made a set of 4 volumes published around 1900. In my 1860 book, there are 17 Queens of Society. As for Sarah's section, there was little mentioned of the fashions. One of my assts. is typing Madame Roland at the moment. I am waiting to hear her response about it. What she has said so far, it sounds like it is full of name-dropping like the Sarah's section. I think we will type Madame Recamier next. She was very influential in fashion. If you all want, I have placed a table of contents below. Let me know which of the other ladies that you would like to see there section typed after Recamier. Whoever receives the most nominations/votes will be the fourth Lady of Society to be typed. Please give a reason why... I have not researched the backgrounds but on the three ladies I mentioned. As I said before I am very weak on my European history so any advice would be welcome. So your input is appreciated. BTW, the later versions with the two volumes of Queens of Society is the same as my single book. I guess they just enlarged the font size of the type (thank goodness). I checked that out with some vintage book dealers who have copies of the later editions. If you want to purchase this book, do a google search for Queens of Society by Grace and Philip Wharton. If they claim the book is undated, it is from the four volume set from the early 1900. I found the Queens sets around $30-50. I plan down the road to purchase the two volumes about etiquette. Here is a list of the Table of Contents for "Queens of Society:" 1. Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough 2. Madame Roland 3. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu 4. Letitia Elizabeth Landon, (L.E.L) 5. Madame de Sevigne 6. Sydney Lady Morgan 7. Jane, Duchess of Gordon 8. Madame Recamier 9. Lady Hervey 10. Madame de Stael 11. Mrs. Thrale-Piozzi 12. Lady Caroline Lamb 13. Anne Seymour Damer 14. La Marquise du Deffand 15. Mrs. Elizabeth Montagu 16. Mary, Countess of Pembroke 17. La Marquise de Maintenon Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 14 23:12:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4F3C3xm011116 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 23:12:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4F3BUYs017946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 21:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F3BS3o094560; Sat, 14 May 2005 21:11:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F3BPgP094485 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 21:11:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050515031120012002gdb0e>; Sun, 15 May 2005 03:11:20 +0000 Message-ID: <003601c558fb$c7363020$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050515000122.3573.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> <4286B079.2080501@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A good question Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 23:11:14 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran, Thank you, thank you! Your explanation is more in-line with what was in the book! Now I know what some keywords to search on the web. I found these articles for far: http://www.geocities.com/henry8jane/GeorgeDenmark.html http://www.answers.com/topic/prince-george-of-denmark Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 00:26:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4F4Qvi1011922 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 00:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4F4QCYs023018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 22:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F4Q9dm036884; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:26:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4F4Q4w6036811 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:26:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2005 04:25:59 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050515052126.014d8a40@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 05:26:06 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A good question In-Reply-To: <002801c558fa$4b04a0f0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 23:00 14/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >We are typing the entire book, Queens of Society. After the 1860 and 1862 >publications, the book was divided up into two books and two other books >were written for etiquette. This made a set of 4 volumes published around >1900. In my 1860 book, there are 17 Queens of Society. As for Sarah's >section, there was little mentioned of the fashions. One of my assts. is >typing Madame Roland at the moment. I am waiting to hear her response >about it. What she has said so far, it sounds like it is full of >name-dropping like the Sarah's section. I think we will type Madame >Recamier next. She was very influential in fashion. > >If you all want, I have placed a table of contents below. Let me know >which of the other ladies that you would like to see there section typed >after Recamier. Whoever receives the most nominations/votes will be the >fourth Lady of Society to be typed. Please give a reason why... I have >not researched the backgrounds but on the three ladies I mentioned. As I >said before I am very weak on my European history so any advice would be >welcome. So your input is appreciated. > >BTW, the later versions with the two volumes of Queens of Society is the >same as my single book. I guess they just enlarged the font size of the >type (thank goodness). I checked that out with some vintage book dealers >who have copies of the later editions. If you want to purchase this book, >do a google search for Queens of Society by Grace and Philip Wharton. If >they claim the book is undated, it is from the four volume set from the >early 1900. I found the Queens sets around $30-50. I plan down the road >to purchase the two volumes about etiquette. > >Here is a list of the Table of Contents for "Queens of Society:" >1. Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough >2. Madame Roland >3. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu >4. Letitia Elizabeth Landon, (L.E.L) >5. Madame de Sevigne >6. Sydney Lady Morgan >7. Jane, Duchess of Gordon >8. Madame Recamier >9. Lady Hervey >10. Madame de Stael >11. Mrs. Thrale-Piozzi >12. Lady Caroline Lamb >13. Anne Seymour Damer >14. La Marquise du Deffand >15. Mrs. Elizabeth Montagu >16. Mary, Countess of Pembroke >17. La Marquise de Maintenon Lady Mary Wortley Montague, who I believe was a great traveller, and may have been a blue stocking too. I know her name, have seen a portrait, and would like to know more about her. Or Lady Caroline Lamb, who had a scandalous life, having an affair with Lord George Gordon Byron, the poet and a pop star of his era. Caroline was married to Lord Melbourne at the time, who later became Queen Victoria's first Prime Minister. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 00:51:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4F4p34h012085 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 00:51:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4F4oQYs025369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 14 May 2005 22:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F4oPEH050887; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:50:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F4oMtV050867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:50:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4F4oLOp007350 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 21:50:21 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: A good question Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050515052126.014d8a40@127.0.0.1> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ohhhh!!! Lady Mary Wortley Montagu! Her travels in the Middle East are legendary. Dressed in Man's clothing, not as a disguise, but because she darned well wanted to. All kinds of things. Just the kind of woman I love to read about! Eloped rather than be married off to a man of her parents choosing (it wasn't a happy marriage even so.) She backed the use of the smallpox vaccination that she had observed in Turkey for English children. Great Woman. I would love to read more about her! Wanda > >3. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu > >4. Letitia Elizabeth Landon, (L.E.L) > >5. Madame de Sevigne > >6. Sydney Lady Morgan > >7. Jane, Duchess of Gordon > >8. Madame Recamier > >9. Lady Hervey > >10. Madame de Stael > >11. Mrs. Thrale-Piozzi > >12. Lady Caroline Lamb > >13. Anne Seymour Damer > >14. La Marquise du Deffand > >15. Mrs. Elizabeth Montagu > >16. Mary, Countess of Pembroke > >17. La Marquise de Maintenon > > > Lady Mary Wortley Montague, who I believe was a great traveller, and may > have been a blue stocking too. I know her name, have seen a > portrait, and > would like to know more about her. > > Or Lady Caroline Lamb, who had a scandalous life, having an affair with > Lord George Gordon Byron, the poet and a pop star of his era. > Caroline was > married to Lord Melbourne at the time, who later became Queen Victoria's > first Prime Minister. > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 06:27:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FARx61026261 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 06:27:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FARCYs016979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 04:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FAR84X033926; Sun, 15 May 2005 04:27:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4FAR4tj033828 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 04:27:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 92705 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2005 10:26:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20050515102659.92703.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.142.204] by web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2005 11:26:58 BST Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 11:26:58 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: "Queens of Society" messages X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I happened to look as this thread by chance, [while triaging my incoming mail queue for the subjects I'm actually researching, and it has caught my attention]. It would be wonderful if someone would put-together - perhaps as a complimentary linked-file on-line, - a selection of contemporary pictures of these ladies - some - if not all - of whom whom reputed to have been ranked amongst the greatest courtesans or "grandes horizontales" of recent history. I would think that many members of the List following this thread would be fascinated to see what these noteworthy women actually looked like. I certainly would like to see all the ladies' pictures gathered in one place - perhaps as a linked, easy-to-access file so that one might go from relevant text to picture and back - speculating what it might have been like to actually meet them and enjoy experiencing their personalities. Consider, - "witty, brilliant" conversation - the rapier-thrust of quick wit - was a highly-esteemed social skill, in an age which lacked electronic entertainment and people had to make their own. The ability to make such "sparkling conversation" seems to have become a much rarer thing in this Third Millenium, when the generality of people have become accustomed to being entertained, rather than contributing to entertaining, - as educated persons were accustomed to do in the 17th, 18th, and 19th Centuries.. What did these particular ladies have - besides their looks and "liberated moral attitudes" - to attract and hold the attentions of so many famous people of "their Times". What was it about their personalities that got them noticed in the first place - and how did so many of them remain "social queens" entertaining the "great and good" of their Times in "brilliant Salons" for so many years - if it wasn't a combination of character, looks, quick wit, and formidable social skills. They fascinate me, and I'd love to see their pictures. Regards, Julian, in "Olde" Jersey. --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 07:48:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FBmSPT026673 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 07:48:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FBlfYs001248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 05:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FBlcvB076737; Sun, 15 May 2005 05:47:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FBlZMb076692 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 05:47:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A6D147DC0056; Sun, 15 May 2005 07:47:29 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 May 05 11:47:26 -0000 Message-ID: <001201c55944$261cd880$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050515102659.92703.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: "Queens of Society" messages Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 07:49:26 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julian, in one of my Book catalogues just yesterday I saw this item Courtesans: Money, Sex, and Fame in the Nineteenth Century by Katie Hickman Pub2003, paperback 2004, 363 pages at $14.95 offered byBas Bleu bookseller Might the link you found be based on this volume? The cover and title also caught my eye. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "julian wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 6:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: "Queens of Society" messages > I happened to look as this thread by chance, [while triaging my incoming mail queue for the subjects I'm actually researching, and it has caught my attention]. > It would be wonderful if someone would put-together - perhaps as a complimentary linked-file on-line, - a selection of contemporary pictures of these ladies - some - if not all - of whom whom reputed to have been ranked amongst the greatest courtesans or "grandes horizontales" of recent history. > I would think that many members of the List following this thread would be fascinated to see what these noteworthy women actually looked like. > I certainly would like to see all the ladies' pictures gathered in one place - perhaps as a linked, easy-to-access file so that one might go from relevant text to picture and back - speculating what it might have been like to actually meet them and enjoy experiencing their personalities. > > Consider, - "witty, brilliant" conversation - the rapier-thrust of quick wit - was a highly-esteemed social skill, in an age which lacked electronic entertainment and people had to make their own. The ability to make such "sparkling conversation" seems to have become a much rarer thing in this Third Millenium, when the generality of people have become accustomed to being entertained, rather than contributing to entertaining, - as educated persons were accustomed to do in the 17th, 18th, and 19th Centuries.. > What did these particular ladies have - besides their looks and "liberated moral attitudes" - to attract and hold the attentions of so many famous people of "their Times". > What was it about their personalities that got them noticed in the first place - and how did so many of them remain "social queens" entertaining the "great and good" of their Times in "brilliant Salons" for so many years - if it wasn't a combination of character, looks, quick wit, and formidable social skills. > They fascinate me, and I'd love to see their pictures. > Regards, > Julian, > in "Olde" Jersey. > > > > > --------------------------------- > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 08:06:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FC6JvV026992 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:06:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FC4xYs003277 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 06:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FC4wwG085898; Sun, 15 May 2005 06:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FC4uBC085842 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 06:04:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AAE1364500C0; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:04:49 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.113 ([209.131.81.113] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 15 May 05 12:04:46 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01c55946$92467140$715183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050515052126.014d8a40@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A good question Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:06:47 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO American contributions: As in their own Queen's Society Mrs. John Jacob Astor Mrs. Alva Vanderbilt Mrs. Potter Palmer Molley Brown (as in the unsinkable) Mrs. John Gardner (Isabella Stewart) The Peabody Sisters of Salem Mrs. John Adams (Abagail Adams) Carrie Chapman Catt Mrs. Ima Hogg (Texas) for starters! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A good question > At 23:00 14/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >We are typing the entire book, Queens of Society. After the 1860 and 1862 > >publications, the book was divided up into two books and two other books > >were written for etiquette. This made a set of 4 volumes published around > >1900. In my 1860 book, there are 17 Queens of Society. As for Sarah's > >section, there was little mentioned of the fashions. One of my assts. is > >typing Madame Roland at the moment. I am waiting to hear her response > >about it. What she has said so far, it sounds like it is full of > >name-dropping like the Sarah's section. I think we will type Madame > >Recamier next. She was very influential in fashion. > > > >If you all want, I have placed a table of contents below. Let me know > >which of the other ladies that you would like to see there section typed > >after Recamier. Whoever receives the most nominations/votes will be the > >fourth Lady of Society to be typed. Please give a reason why... I have > >not researched the backgrounds but on the three ladies I mentioned. As I > >said before I am very weak on my European history so any advice would be > >welcome. So your input is appreciated. > > > >BTW, the later versions with the two volumes of Queens of Society is the > >same as my single book. I guess they just enlarged the font size of the > >type (thank goodness). I checked that out with some vintage book dealers > >who have copies of the later editions. If you want to purchase this book, > >do a google search for Queens of Society by Grace and Philip Wharton. If > >they claim the book is undated, it is from the four volume set from the > >early 1900. I found the Queens sets around $30-50. I plan down the road > >to purchase the two volumes about etiquette. > > > >Here is a list of the Table of Contents for "Queens of Society:" > >1. Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough > >2. Madame Roland > >3. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu > >4. Letitia Elizabeth Landon, (L.E.L) > >5. Madame de Sevigne > >6. Sydney Lady Morgan > >7. Jane, Duchess of Gordon > >8. Madame Recamier > >9. Lady Hervey > >10. Madame de Stael > >11. Mrs. Thrale-Piozzi > >12. Lady Caroline Lamb > >13. Anne Seymour Damer > >14. La Marquise du Deffand > >15. Mrs. Elizabeth Montagu > >16. Mary, Countess of Pembroke > >17. La Marquise de Maintenon > > > Lady Mary Wortley Montague, who I believe was a great traveller, and may > have been a blue stocking too. I know her name, have seen a portrait, and > would like to know more about her. > > Or Lady Caroline Lamb, who had a scandalous life, having an affair with > Lord George Gordon Byron, the poet and a pop star of his era. Caroline was > married to Lord Melbourne at the time, who later became Queen Victoria's > first Prime Minister. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 08:23:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FCN4W6027068 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:23:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FCMLYs004571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 06:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FCMK1O094897; Sun, 15 May 2005 06:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f11.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.21]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FCMHw6094840 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 06:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 May 2005 05:22:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2005 12:22:11 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.200] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505121458.j4CEwDl5006628@net.indra.com> From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 12:22:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2005 12:22:12.0175 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8BBA5F0:01C55948] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband & 4 children & I have watched most of these shows, but gave up because of the bickering the participants did. We used to play a game at the supper table where we put our family in the mix and talked about how we would do. I mentioned that there never seems to be any Midwestern farm families (like us) on the shows, and my husband said 'of course, because we would probably do OK, the kids are used to farm chores and animals, and there wouldn't be as much drama.' Our biggest complaint with the shows is how NO ONE stayed in period dress. If they were uncomfortable, they just took it off. How many of our pioneer grandmas really did that? But just trying it and finding out stuff would be SO INTERESTING. Did anyone see the one set in Canada, with only two families? I thought that was the best one, especially as they stayed through the winter. Berenice I agree, but the guess the idea is to take people most rooted in modern life, throw them into a recreated past and film what happens. Then edit it down into an entertainment show for the masses. Even for PBS, you gotta have buzz and ratings of some sort. What I would like to see is some sort of mix between reenactors who would insist on doing everything correctly, interested amateurs, like myself and probably a good portion of the list membership who would want to experience actually living and surviving in a past time as close as we could come sans time machine, and the willing but clueless who of course, represent the mass audience, who complain and rebel. Talk about ratings! Talk about sparks flying! Cindy Abel > As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend > time seeking out misfits in a cast or conflicts between individuals > that have no meaning or bearing on the period being scrutinized and > play these up to the omission of pertinent material. This is exactly right, and I think the program officials are wrong. I know many, many people who like to watch these shows and every one has mentioned disliking all the bickering and modern concepts that are introduced. It's pretty obvious that the producers are picking groups and families that would be at odds with each other in any circumstances, not just the stress of living in a time of unaccustomed hardship. I don't understand why people who would never dream of getting dirty or "doing without" would even apply for spot on these shows. My family applied to be a part of the one shot in Maine. We farm, we keep bees, sugar the maples, know how to sew and milk cows/goats, garden, make do and do without. We didn't even get a second contact. They *want* people to fail because they think it makes better television. The people who like that kind of program are watching Fear Factor, not PTV. In my opinion. Denise in Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 08:39:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FCdX8E027166 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:39:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FCcuYs006714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 06:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FCcsdF003876; Sun, 15 May 2005 06:38:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FCcpAN003833 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 06:38:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050515123845.YOGE2892.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 00:38:45 +1200 Received: from michaela ([222.153.224.179]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050515123845.STUN4494.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 00:38:45 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.308 [266.11.10]); Mon, 16 May 2005 00:38:51 +1200 Message-ID: <000901c5594b$0c6545b0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 00:38:51 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Our biggest complaint with the shows is > how NO ONE stayed in period dress. If they were uncomfortable, they just > took it off. How many of our pioneer grandmas really did that? You may be surprised. After all in the 16thC there is mention of "German" women going about just in their shifts* and wearing their aprons over their heads (not sure about that second one, I may have misread/misheard that.) I do recall mention in one of my costume books about an interview with a woman who hated her stays as a girl in the very late 19thC taking them off and being reprimanded. ANother woman mentioned removing her stockings because they were annoying in some way or another. It would be interesting to find further accounts like these actually. They do suggest that one was not naturally predisposed to a fashion one gre up into;) *I don't have the book this appears in so maybe someone else here has the full details? michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 09:56:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FDuudq027716 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 09:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FDtqYs012119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 07:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FDtmqt046354; Sun, 15 May 2005 07:55:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.175]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4FDtjUi046262 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 07:55:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 27816 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2005 13:55:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20050515135539.27814.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.139.88] by web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2005 14:55:39 BST Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 14:55:39 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:"Queens of Society" pictures X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO KATHLEEN AT wrote: Julian, in one of my Book catalogues just yesterday I saw this item <"Courtesans: Money, Sex, and Fame in the Nineteenth Century" by Katie Hickman; - Pub2003, paperback 2004, 363 pages at $14.95 - offered byBas Bleu bookseller > Might the link you found be based on this volume? SNIP No, you misunderstood my perhaps-poorly-worded Posting - I didn't FIND a link - I was hoping that someone more knowledgable either would *know of an existing such link* - or someone enthusiastic about this particular thread would *volunteer to construct one* - as a companion piece to the "19th Century Queens of Society" webpages. TYVM for the Book title, BTW: it is not one that I knew already - and I shall now see if our small Central Libary has a copy - [they don't "do" ILL's, for some reason; - Jersey always being stubbornly-independent in this as in so many other things] Regards, Julian, in "olde" Jersey Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 10:07:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FE7dO9027771 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 10:07:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FE6xYs012730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 08:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FE6w7Z052753; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms040pub.verizon.net (vms040pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FE6usP052733 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:06:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from vms074.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.3]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IGJ0094FB7KWHA3@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 May 2005 09:06:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 09:06:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House To: Historical Costume Message-id: <15500187.1116166016550.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4FE6usP052733 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Canadian ones are different. These are the quest series and the ones I have seen a far superior to the American ones, at least in the way of participant attitude, as presented by the producers. I know people who were involved in both Frontier House and Colonial House. Some of the comments on this list are spot on. Susan Cain, who was the domestic advisor for frontier house mentioned this on antother list I am on. We were complaining about tthe whiny kids in frontier house and she said actually theu were some of the best behaved kids she had ever met. They were out there for several months, which was distilled down to three television epsiodes! What we saw was more a representation of what the makers of the show thought we would be interested in, then a true depiction of what happened. This was strengthened in my mind when I watched the wrap up episode, where the interviewed participants about their experience. Suddenly there was a boy talking about how much! he enjoyed it and missed it. He was rarely shown during the run of the shows! nOT ENOUGH TENSION i GUESS. I like the Canadian ones better, at least the two I have seen, because this is less an element in them. In the first one I saw their pioneer quest or something like that, the material culture was weak, but the attitude of the participants was great. The second one was Quest for the Bay. Unlike the American's versions, some of these people most certainly had a background. They had a boat builder, they had reenactors and historical interpreters. There's still tension, but it's tension regarding the subject at hand. Will the boat survive, will we get there when we need too, etc. Not weither or not they should get divorced or come out of the closet. I do think the House Series his missing their mark. If I had the money I would put my theory to the test. I think they are trying to capture the reality show audience, but I don't think they do. The real reality shows do that better. Therefore, people like us should be their audience, but by trying to make it like a typical reality show they just alienate us. I really do believe they would be more successful if they tried more to show the tension of the period then modern soap opera. Besides I really want to do one of these. I have been a reenactor, and I am a profesional Interpreter. Like modern farmers, we aren't wanted for these shows. (Though often used as advisors). However, most of us do not get the opportunity to live the lives we interpret. Not really. Typically we work 9-5 or a reenactor gets typically a weekend. Longest I have lived iin a hiostoric period full time was a week, and THAT was an unusual situation! I would love the oppurtunity to live in a recreated past for a six months! Ron Carnegie From: Laura Waack >Date: Sun May 15 07:22:11 CDT 2005 >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House >My husband & 4 children & I have watched most of these shows, but gave up >because of the bickering the participants did. We used to play a game at >the supper table where we put our family in the mix and talked about how we >would do. I mentioned that there never seems to be any Midwestern farm >families (like us) on the shows, and my husband said 'of course, because we >would probably do OK, the kids are used to farm chores and animals, and >there wouldn't be as much drama.' Our biggest complaint with the shows is >how NO ONE stayed in period dress. If they were uncomfortable, they just >took it off. How many of our pioneer grandmas really did that? > >But just trying it and finding out stuff would be SO INTERESTING. > >Did anyone see the one set in Canada, with only two families? I thought >that was the best one, especially as they stayed through the winter. > >Berenice > > > I agree, but the guess the idea is to take people most rooted in modern >life, throw them into a recreated past and film what happens. Then edit >it down into an entertainment show for the masses. Even for PBS, you >gotta have buzz and ratings of some sort. > >What I would like to see is some sort of mix between reenactors who >would insist on doing everything correctly, interested amateurs, like >myself and probably a good portion of the list membership who would want >to experience actually living and surviving in a past time as close as >we could come sans time machine, and the willing but clueless who of >course, represent the mass audience, who complain and rebel. > >Talk about ratings! Talk about sparks flying! > >Cindy Abel > > > As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend > > time seeking out misfits in a cast or conflicts between individuals > > that have no meaning or bearing on the period being scrutinized and > > play these up to the omission of pertinent material. > > >This is exactly right, and I think the program officials are wrong. I >know many, many people who like to watch these shows and every one has >mentioned disliking all the bickering and modern concepts that are >introduced. It's pretty obvious that the producers are picking groups >and families that would be at odds with each other in any circumstances, >not just the stress of living in a time of unaccustomed hardship. > >I don't understand why people who would never dream of getting dirty or >"doing without" would even apply for spot on these shows. My family >applied to be a part of the one shot in Maine. We farm, we keep bees, >sugar the maples, know how to sew and milk cows/goats, garden, make do >and do without. >We didn't even get a second contact. They *want* people to fail because >they think it makes better television. The people who like that kind of >program are watching Fear Factor, not PTV. In my opinion. > >Denise in Iowa > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 10:12:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FECjDY027809 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 10:12:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FEBkYs012960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 08:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FEBkh1055520; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:11:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FEBhwl055487 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 08:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from vms074.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.3]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IGJ006TIBFF3C89@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 15 May 2005 09:11:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 09:11:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House To: Historical Costume Message-id: <24104546.1116166299480.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, There are a number of similiar comments from visitors to the southern back country of America in the late 18th early 19th centuries. These people are often described as being scantily dressed, dirty, and shoeless. Of course many of these references come from outsiders denigrating the society so there maybe exageration represented here. Ron Carnegie >You may be surprised. After all in the 16thC there is mention of "German" >women going about just in their shifts* and wearing their aprons over their >heads (not sure about that second one, I may have misread/misheard that.) > >I do recall mention in one of my costume books about an interview with a >woman who hated her stays as a girl in the very late 19thC taking them off >and being reprimanded. ANother woman mentioned removing her stockings >because they were annoying in some way or another. > >It would be interesting to find further accounts like these actually. They >do suggest that one was not naturally predisposed to a fashion one gre up >into;) > >*I don't have the book this appears in so maybe someone else here has the >full details? > >michaela >http://glittersweet.com > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 12:11:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FGBTG4028732 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 12:11:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FGAjYs022303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 10:10:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FGAdK1026891; Sun, 15 May 2005 10:10:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4FGAbAi026836 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 10:10:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30974 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2005 16:10:31 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=hwXApU6kfc+8gnGMxsQdQbiwwKAwgizoma+otfA1fUxF3LdCvqLGBXz4gfQODxhF7MsliJi0xlUpSgZ1cxdROwUFIYvsN6ieEargGD8tRRP6WzSbZP5WY1sUEukVezqs5qdg9QbZoyVuAY6oO2giBOVN/6QawoeOB1nnwspNUrQ= ; Message-ID: <20050515161031.30972.qmail@web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.21.56.151] by web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2005 09:10:31 PDT Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 09:10:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:"Queens of Society" pictures To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Julian, I'm in Warren Co. NJ and our main library does 'em all the time. If you're not to far away, perhaps we can get the book (if they don't already have it) and you can come up and make a copy? Chris G. julian wilson wrote: SNIP No, you misunderstood my perhaps-poorly-worded Posting - I didn't FIND a link - I was hoping that someone more knowledgable either would *know of an existing such link* - or someone enthusiastic about this particular thread would *volunteer to construct one* - as a companion piece to the "19th Century Queens of Society" webpages. TYVM for the Book title, BTW: it is not one that I knew already - and I shall now see if our small Central Libary has a copy - [they don't "do" ILL's, for some reason; - Jersey always being stubbornly-independent in this as in so many other things] Regards, Julian, in "olde" Jersey Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 15:07:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FJ7PkV030065 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 15:07:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FJ6TYs004377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 13:06:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FJ6P4Y031206; Sun, 15 May 2005 13:06:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-dav13.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FJ6OJ8031122 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 13:06:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 May 2005 12:06:18 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 141.152.170.102 by BAY10-DAV13.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 15 May 2005 19:06:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [141.152.170.102] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000901c5594b$0c6545b0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:06:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:06:14 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2005 19:06:18.0889 (UTC) FILETIME=[2CE69790:01C55981] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4FJ7PkV030065 Status: RO In the "Little House" books, Laura comments that she has to take her stays off at night to sleep, although her mother and older sister don't. She also wants to help Pa in the fields, hoping to leave off her stays. The time period is late 1800s/early 1900s. ----- Original Message ----- From: michaela To: Historical Costume Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House > Our biggest complaint with the shows is > how NO ONE stayed in period dress. If they were uncomfortable, they just > took it off. How many of our pioneer grandmas really did that? You may be surprised. After all in the 16thC there is mention of "German" women going about just in their shifts* and wearing their aprons over their heads (not sure about that second one, I may have misread/misheard that.) I do recall mention in one of my costume books about an interview with a woman who hated her stays as a girl in the very late 19thC taking them off and being reprimanded. ANother woman mentioned removing her stockings because they were annoying in some way or another. It would be interesting to find further accounts like these actually. They do suggest that one was not naturally predisposed to a fashion one gre up into;) *I don't have the book this appears in so maybe someone else here has the full details? michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 13/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 15:57:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FJvVan030388 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 15:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FJutYs007706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 13:56:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FJurbm063317; Sun, 15 May 2005 13:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4FJuoCu063212 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 13:56:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 60704 invoked by uid 60001); 15 May 2005 19:56:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20050515195644.60702.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 May 2005 20:56:44 BST Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 20:56:44 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial/Pioneer House - Why Bother? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, I'm going to agree with everything said so far. It's day 2 - why are the women shown wearing their shifts and corsets in public? Why are they shocked at the reality of goat poo and sour milk? Why are they freaking out already when they had so much training (according to the website)? Some of the documentary stuff and excerpts from original pioneers diaries is interesting but I'd rather watch a serious documentary on the subject. I won't bother with it next week - back to watching Indiana Jones: escapism pure and simple with no whining civilians to get in the way :-) Susan S. p.s. it is my long term ambition to live, during the day at least, in the Frilandsmuseet - the world's most beautiful collection of houses - in Copenhagen... I just want to take antibiotics and clean water with me! ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 15 19:17:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4FNH6T6031931 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 19:17:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4FNGHYs022723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 15 May 2005 17:16:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FNGD6e088988; Sun, 15 May 2005 17:16:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FNGA40088941 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 17:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.164] (pm5-164.eos.net [205.133.149.164]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j4FNG4Rr010346 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 19:16:05 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 19:08:01 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505151800.j4FI0DnX091687@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really enjoyed the Frontier House series, myself. I would have preferred more about how they lived and less about their bickering, and certainly less about the sad breakup of the one couple's marriage, but I do think the show succeeded in showing how much work it took to live back then. I was particularly impressed at the last episode, which showed the people back at their regular lives. The men had all gotten so much fatter, and the kids were so bored . . . as a parent, that part really stuck out for me. On the "frontier," the children had all done very hard and very necessary work. Their families depended on what they did. Back home they didn't have anything to do and they were bored out of their minds. It seems to me that each one of these "house" series has gotten worse and worse. The "Regency House Party" was so awful -- the people were so apalling -- that I could hardly bear any of it. I kept tuning in, thinking it couldn't get worse, but it did... I think Ron is right, they are missing the mark. The real fans of these shows want to see people actually TRYING to live like people in the past, not protesting about what a pain it is! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:32:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBWGUF003111 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:32:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBVIdc078706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBVCGn023726; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:31:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f8.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEBHiQ074565 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:11:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauradi7@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.200 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:11:12 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.200] X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com] X-Sender: lauradi7@hotmail.com From: "Laura Dickerson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:11:12 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 14:11:12.0543 (UTC) FILETIME=[73DB5AF0:01C556FC] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] iron age shoe X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO see: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1481011,00.html Laura Dickerson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:32:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBWwve003117 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:32:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBWMiw079001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:32:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBWLO7024484; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:32:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEPei3084094 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:25:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id b11so234721rne for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:25:40 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=eICQSFpMC8f3POjcrSBa5CllMHL4Y7KAxZPE1RjIDi14uKwB/d2Sx72EP1QEISTybAI3rw5vpLEPIoUHwSgMnFmnBGwEaeZRpHRU8KYzP+P+M5C1GaAUzl9sRcYAuPgLjlZazzbSupJSj852jPA85t6rysnO9aDDYXFbxt39Uuo= Received: by 10.38.67.69 with SMTP id p69mr826867rna; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.73.35 with HTTP; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c10505120725268e8b29@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 09:25:38 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? In-Reply-To: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <051020052124.8244.428126880005352F0000203422070029539D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4CEPei3084094 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 5/10/05, lauren.walker@comcast.net wrote: > Hi, > I'm in the market for a new electric steam iron. My old one is a lovely shade of "Harvest Gold", which tells you how old it is, plus, about 10 years ago I melted the lid of a yogurt container on the base plate. Anyway I have been squinting at the Consumer Reports listings, but I get the feeling CR's testers don't actually iron that much, as their criteria are kind of weird. So their first choice is a Black and Decker model that the user reviews on Amazon.com found unreliable and problematic. Thus, I turn to you: has anybody got an iron to recommend? I use mine for three things: to iron existing clothes; to press seams, edges, and other tricky parts when constructing garments, and sometimes to put a little gentle fulling onto handwoven wools. How these purposes align with CR's "Ironing" "Steaming" and "Glide" is a little unclear. Also everybody seems to hate an iron that drips water on clothes at lower temperatures, but given the nature of steam and condensation I'm not sur! e ! > there's a whole lot a manufacturer can do to prevent it. Anyway, your advice gratefully entertained. > Best, > Lauren Walker I use one of the cheap $10 ones from Target, because it is light and my wrists don't complain so much. But then I don't use the steam (actually, I'm not sure if this one even has a steam function), rather, I use spray bottles of water or vinegar (labelled, of course) depending on what I am working with. That way, no accidental burns, drips, etc. A good spray bottle that can lay a nice even mist is a wonderful thing. Margaret/Pixel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:33:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBX0aV003121 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBWRiM079050 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBWRRt024568; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CEadiY091397 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 08:36:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C983FE4F for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 4E8083988; Thu, 12 May 2005 07:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 07:36:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good irons? X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.135] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCg2nyAAKJHAEAAAAB,3072270b52dd7786fa5f4bc96019774c Message-Id: <20050512143634.4E8083988@sitemail.everyone.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Got to add my comments here. I grew up in the days before polyester and had to iron almost everything I wore. I HATE ironing and have my iron mostly for sewing. With arthritis I don't care for the heavy irons. I tried Black and Decker, but think they should have just stayed with power tools. They have spread themselves so thin that none of their stuff is much good any more. I have had the best luck with my cheap Proctor/Silex. It has steam, burst of steam, spray and a teflon plate that is easy to clean (just run it over a couple of sheets of wax paper now and then). I know that just adds to the confusion. Sorry, that is the best I can offer. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- lauren.walker@comcast.net wrote: From: lauren.walker@comcast.net Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:24:24 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Good irons? Hi, I'm in the market for a new electric steam iron. My old one is a lovely shade of "Harvest Gold", which tells you how old it is, plus, about 10 years ago I melted the lid of a yogurt container on the base plate. Anyway I have been squinting at the Consumer Reports listings, but I get the feeling CR's testers don't actually iron that much, as their criteria are kind of weird. So their first choice is a Black and Decker model that the user reviews on Amazon.com found unreliable and problematic. Thus, I turn to you: has anybody got an iron to recommend? I use mine for three things: to iron existing clothes; to press seams, edges, and other tricky parts when constructing garments, and sometimes to put a little gentle fulling onto handwoven wools. How these purposes align with CR's "Ironing" "Steaming" and "Glide" is a little unclear. Also everybody seems to hate an iron that drips water on clothes at lower temperatures, but given the nature of steam and condensation I'm not sure ! there's a whole lot a manufacturer can do to prevent it. Anyway, your advice gratefully entertained. Best, Lauren Walker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:33:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBXoKi003137 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBXKFK079294 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:33:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBXKV5025227; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:33:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CGWgSl087562 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 10:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from sheryl.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-110-126.kc.res.rr.com [65.30.110.126]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j4CGWToZ028251 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:32:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050512114236.009fa7a0@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:45:38 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] polymer clay powder question In-Reply-To: <200505111814.OAA28602@swiftsure.concentric.com> References: <200505111721.j4BHLOHT090463@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gold mica powder looks better than spray paint, but for this purpose I would suggest "gold" leaf. You just brush the buttons with a liquid adhesive, let it set up a bit and then apply the sheet of gold leaf using a soft brush to push it in the corners and crevices. You can find the supplies at any Michaels or Hobby Lobby. Sheryl N-D At 11:14 AM 5/11/05 -0700, you wrote: >This got me thinking as well. I found some old giant buttons that look >like rope work. Gilded in some way they would make great >ornaments. Spray paint...looks like spray paint. Is anyone familiar with >these metallic powders? >Julie > > > >The gold powder suggestions really give me ideas. I think I can find gold > > >leaf easier than I can find gold lipstick. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:35:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBZ7hO003146 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:35:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBYcvs079591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:34:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBYcv5026153; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:34:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CK8vSD071742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 14:09:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4CK1RmT014309 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 16:01:27 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 May 2005 16:01:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4283B7D3.4040108@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 16:08:51 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A bit more on the trousers guy References: <4281DBE5.7000705@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > My guess? He's pulling your leg. Probably trying to test how much he can > push before you get mad at him. Probably not part of the SCA, but met > them and thinks they're ridiculous and stupid. > > My advice? Just drop it. Yep, that's what I did. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:35:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBZ7mC003147 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:35:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBYNSI079531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBYNIt025927; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav10.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4CIuqht010778 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 12:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 12 May 2005 11:56:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 12 May 2005 18:56:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050512022925.63394.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCA v Renfaire ......Swat that fairy, make 'em scream! Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:56:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 May 2005 18:56:46.0966 (UTC) FILETIME=[58C4D160:01C55724] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Then "$buck$ "fever hit them. the $Buck$ became more > important to them then apperance,theme,or realism. > Enter Conan, Vulcans, klingons, demons,vampires,goths, > Zebra people,hobbits elves fairies....even Jack from > Jack in the Box fast foods,in doublet & slops. That's not a Renaissance Faire. That's an outdoors Sci-Fi convention. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:35:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBZJnT003152 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:35:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBYo3Z079664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:34:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBYo56026318; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:34:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51308.mail.yahoo.com (web51308.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4CMRv49087405 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 16:27:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 46801 invoked by uid 60001); 12 May 2005 22:27:52 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2SPWXvMgwaXAOV4V6igLGzcoEzvIaAcf54aPWNiKlOnCmSDhlobOVp9P2uM3LNME3uZQdRwgRk1Uc+MpFbv3FqmsLWq6zAZ0YOcPB44hmUa/drvClT8S7D4Wmk8IXRp83hVIzmKCskSqrsrIBCmwoECWmi5YdoUCvU7tWQ3TRe8= ; Message-ID: <20050512222752.46799.qmail@web51308.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.183.17.228] by web51308.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 May 2005 15:27:51 PDT Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:27:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Dollfies To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Dollfies" is a registered trademark of the Volks company in Japan. They made up the word by combining Doll and Figure. A more general term is asian resin ball-jointed dolls, for the bigger resin dolls. Dollfie by itself refers to Volks's line of vinyl 1/6 scale dolls (aka, 12", 30 cm, Barbie-sized). No too expensive, but better when bought in a group order; shipping from Japan can get expensive. US source: Doll & Hobby in Florida. Lots of interesting posability. Dollfie Dreams is a 60 cm vinyl doll with some posability, but less than many of the 30 cm dolls. Tends to have a very exagerated anime facial styling. Curves to make Barbie jealous. Their bigger dolls are mostly made of resin. Super Dollfie (SD) & Super Dollfie 13 (SD-13) are around 60 cm (+/-) and run starting around US$550 (estimate only) and go up, especially when the face is painted by a well-respected customizer, clothing & shoes of high quality and limited numbers. Mini Super Dollfie (MSD) and Super Dollfie Cute (SDC) are around 43 cm tall. They start arond US$300 for an MSD kit that you must string, and go up. The SDC line only has limited editions so far & go for very painful amounts of money, possibly starting as low as US$500. Many other companies make polyurethane resin ball-jointed dolls. The SD FAQ at http://www.denofangels.com/ (click on FAQ) has lots of information. I've costumed a Dream of Doll Bee-A (43cm) as a 15th century bourgeois, and she has a great face sculpt for turn of the fifteenth century. :) Ann in CT --- "Abel, Cynthia" wrote: > I've heard of the Dollfies. The magazines Haute Doll > and FDQ:Fashion Doll Quarterly have run several > articles on them. But even > the littlest are super-expensive for me. > > Cindy > > Speaking of pale skinned dolls. I just discovered > the "new" (to me) > resin ball jointed dolls like Volk's Dollfie. I was > playing around with > one yesterday to make a pattern. The dolls are > super articulated and > wow can you position them! sorry, lost the attribution to the above quote. ac __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:35:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBZmcC003156 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:35:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBZFfr079834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBZEu9026668; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D0jp5c081741 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 18:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005051300454601500d4k53e>; Fri, 13 May 2005 00:45:46 +0000 Message-ID: <003401c55755$1962f700$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:45:45 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A good question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4GBZmcC003156 Status: RO I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a cockpit? <<>> Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:36:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBaBYD003161 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBZiCD080076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBZhqb027104; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:35:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com (web41902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4D4ZJbP011457 for ; Thu, 12 May 2005 22:35:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 45256 invoked by uid 60001); 13 May 2005 04:35:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=xQngt0xrmDfCWZ7+hX9I+bjLVxRihjxNOTSye2+1wGCoD7f2XfOyTHDZFm3tP2+refqmZxGTG4zEMY6V+K+mUNDvnuXPzglQ700TDpb/oo/37PYo3klX0dr2/FRJKwr7aW408GCvse5ACQXQ/v2HyY4hbJThxmHpPR6bXEK/ndk= ; Message-ID: <20050513043514.45254.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.121] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 May 2005 21:35:14 PDT Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:35:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200505121458.j4CEwDl5006628@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 313 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those aired here last year in Canda as well as one called Either Iron age or Bronze age from England.(unsure of title) . they are rally neat to see how comfortable people really are in "modern" times...throw them back a couple hundred years or so and see what happens.... People really do take way too much for granted! Just my opinion... I think they are really cool! Satine --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:36:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBaOBL003166 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:36:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBZvIS080180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:35:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBZvpG027349; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:35:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4D9JsEM045683 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 03:19:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005051309194801400div7fe>; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:19:48 +0000 Message-ID: <00b301c5579c$e92778c0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" References: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 05:19:48 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: a good question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you to those with the answers about, "What is a cock-pit?" When I get to formatting the webpages for Sarah's bio, I will find the pages discussing the cockpits. Then, I send some quotes to you all about the cockpits. For some reason, I recall the ladies going to this place. The book gave me the impression that the cock-pit was a social gathering place. I just can't imagine English ladies of society going to chicken fights. BTW, chicken fights are outlawed in several states of the U.S. It probably won't be until Tuesday when I get to formatting. I still have four more pages of tiny printed pages to type to finish Sarah's bio. I have been forever typing this section. I thought maybe I was typing slow. I gave another bio from this book to one of my interns, who types 100 wpm. Usually she can type an entire book in one week. Well, it has been a week and she is only half way through the bio. Back to indexing the fashion color database... Penny Ladnier, owner (who didn't take world history in school and learning it the hard way) The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:38:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBcbgF003187 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:38:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBbusr080745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:37:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBbt93028761; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:37:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DFN814055428 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 09:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IGF00JS2PDMU8@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.38] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.21]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Fri, 13 May 2005 11:23:02 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:23:02 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question To: Historical Costume Message-id: <271d5f0271a1e0.271a1e0271d5f0@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AND Everyone Honeymoons at Niagara Falls. Their hotel has a 'great view of the Falls', and there are no crowds at all at any of the Tourist Traps. Katheryne loving this Hollywood view of the USA ----- Original Message ----- From: Karen R Bergquist > You forgot to mention the fact that Chicago is full of gangsters > who kill > each other in the street on a regular basis.....and we all carry > Tommy-guns. > > "Elizabeth Walpole" > Are you telling me Hollywood has been lying to me all these years > > ;-) I mean the USA consists of New York, Washington (and there's nobody but politicians there) and LA plus a few quaint little towns where everybody > knows everyone else and they don't like strangers, the rest is ranches, Right? > > Surely > > Hollywood couldn't be wrong? could it? ;-D > > Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:38:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBckaR003191 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:38:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBc3DF080783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:38:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBc3vK028859; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:38:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DHavfd063362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:36:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-208.sonic.net [209.148.113.208]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DHauQS011912 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 10:36:56 -0700 Message-ID: <4284E5BD.3070502@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:37:01 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] A good question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Cockpit was the London residence of Princess Anne (to whom Sarah Jennings was lady-in-waiting) and Prince George. It was on the site of what is now Downing Street in Westminster . Their social and political circle was known as the "Cockpit Circle." Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Cin wrote: >I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess >of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the >people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a >cockpit? > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:39:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBd4kd003198 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:39:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBcMQu080884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:38:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBcMuW029104; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:38:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.247]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DI1qeU082756 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:01:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by pop-a065c32.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DWeTv-0000BQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 May 2005 11:01:52 -0700 Message-ID: <4284EB8F.4090802@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:01:51 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] A good question-cockpit References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050513183228.014d8990@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050513183228.014d8990@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here are a couple of quotes from the OED. Just as some alternatives to the general notion of a pit, for cock fighting, which is 'right on.' {dag}b. Applied to a theatre; and to the PIT of a theatre. Obs. 1599 SHAKES. Hen. V, I. Prol. 11 Can this Cock-Pit hold The vastie fields of France? Or may we cramme Within this Woodden O, the very Caskes That did affright the Ayre at Agincourt? a1635 L. DIGGES in Shaks. Suppl. I. 71 (N.) Let but Beatrice And Benedict be seen; lo! in a trice, The cockpit, galleries, boxes, all are full. {dag}c. spec. the Cockpit: (a) name of a theatre in London, in 17th c., on the site of a cock-pit. Obs. a1635 L. DIGGES in Shaks. Suppl. I. 71 (N.) On Gods name, may the Bull, or Cockpit have Your lame blank verse to keep you from the grave. 1660 PEPYS Diary 11 Oct., Mr. Salisbury..took Mr. Creed and me to the Cockpitt to see ‘The Moore of Venice’, which was well done. 1662-3 Ibid. 5 Jan., To the Cockpitt, where we saw ‘Claracilla’, a poor play, done by the King's house. {dag}(b) The name of the block of buildings on or near the site of the Cockpit erected by Henry VIII opposite Whitehall, London, used from the seventeenth century as government offices; hence put familiarly for ‘the Treasury’, and ‘the Privy Council chambers’. Obs. [1598 STOW Surv. Lond. 374 (in J. Marshall Ann. Tennis 65) The saide White hall. On the right hand bee diuers fayre Tennis courtes, bowling Allies, and a Cockepit, all built by King Henry the eight.] 1649-50 Commons' Jrnl. 25 Feb. in Carlyle Cromwell II. 124 Resolved that the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland have the use of the Lodgings called the Cockpit. 1659-60 PEPYS Diary 20 Feb., My Lord of Dorset and another Lord, talking of getting another place at the Cockpit. 1698 LUTTRELL Brief Rel. IV. 329 The council chamber, treasury, and duke Shrewsbury's offices, are to be at the Cockpitt, till Whitehal be rebuilt. 1711 R. ORLEBAR Let. in 3rd Rep. Hist. MSS. Comm. App. 276a, Mar. 8..Just now I am told of an odd passage happened in Councill at the cockpitt to-night. 1773 BURKE Let. Sir C. Bingham Wks. IX. 140 For the sake of gratifying the schemes of a transitory Administration of the Cock~pit or the Castle. 1830 GREVILLE Mem. 22 Nov. (1874) II. xii. 70 He [Brougham] threatened to sit often at the Cockpit, in order to check Leach, who, though a good judge in his own Court, was good for nothing in a Court of Appeal. 1843 KNIGHT London V. 291 But to return to the Cock-pit..This is the part of the Treasury buildings which fronts Whitehall. Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 10:16 13/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >> I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess >> of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the >> people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a >> cockpit? >> >> <<>> >> >> Cockfight occurs in a pit. It's an extremely lowbrow gambling >> opportunity. It would be interesting to hear/read what the Duchess >> had to say about her peers & cockfighting, > > > > I would query that it is entirely low brow. Certainly later in the > 18th and early 19th century, all forms of fighting contests were a > draw for the "toffs". Cock fighting and bare knuckle fighting come > under that banner. If the people of the court were going, surely that > means that it might have been considered low brow but the courtiers > went slumming all the same? (You still find dogs fights - highly > illegal - in South London where I live.) > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:39:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBd4cR003199 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:39:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBcT0A080945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:38:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBcSTs029205; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swiftsure.concentric.com (swiftsure.concentric.com [207.155.252.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DIYcG4008641 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 12:34:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by swiftsure.concentric.com id OAA26910; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:34:31 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505131834.OAA26910@swiftsure.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:34:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505130620.j4D6K3TA061851@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4DIYcG4008641 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Viking Music? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK. I admit that I'm not up on Viking culture, but didn't Vikings have music? Didn't they dance? I can't imagine a group noted for alcohol consumption that didn't have some form of dancing at their gatherings. Julie ---- wrote: > I once saw a group of party girls at a Viking re-creation feast asking when the dance music came on, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:39:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBdo77003207 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:39:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBdI9q081167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBdI9R029836; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DKOlE7099321 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 14:24:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.251]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050513202439.CJKK19201.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:24:39 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050513150654.029f1320@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:24:34 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris In-Reply-To: <200505131802.j4DI0627081223@net.indra.com> References: <200505131802.j4DI0627081223@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For kilts, I would suggest: Dunbar, John Telfer: The Costume of Scotland. London: Batsford, 1981. or Dunbar John Telfer: History of Highland Dress. Edinburgh and London: Oliver and Boyd, 1962 I don't know if Tarrant, Naomi. The Development of Costume. National Galleries of Scotland (January, 1994) Routledge Press. ISBN: 0415080185 would have anything specifically on kilts or not. My copy hasn't come in yet. There really aren't many good books on the subject out there. Try interlibrary loan for them. Beth Matney At 01:02 PM 5/13/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 12:49:53 -0400 >From: tearoses@aol.com >Subject: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris >To: h-costume@indra.com >Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to the >origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm interested in >whether there are any similarities in how these garments developed. > >Extra credit if you suggest a book I can find at the library. :) > >Thanks, >Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:39:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBdrsi003210 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:39:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBdOxT081226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBdNo9029913; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:39:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4DLHxQx043857 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 15:18:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DLHtIC007913 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:17:55 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.88.212] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-88-212.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.88.212]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4DLHpML484108 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 17:17:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050513141610.0325b5d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:17:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris In-Reply-To: <8C725F2EBC8A1B5-E40-23769@mblk-r25.sysops.aol.com> References: <200505130620.j4D6K3TA061851@net.indra.com> <200505130620.j4D6K3TA061851@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/876/Thu May 12 17:14:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to the >origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm interested in >whether there are any similarities in how these garments developed. My uneducated guess is that this is another example of parallel evolution. The garments may turn out to only be related to fact that the fabric is woven but not cut. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:41:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBf4CI003218 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:41:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBeSxO081660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBeRs6030915; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E1RavJ015817 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j4E1RUV28136 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 21:27:30 -0400 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:30:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20050513220658.32D473384B@ws7-3.us4.outblaze.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, One thing to remember is the form is not the most important thing about both of these garments. Both are rich in symbolism. The kilt, as we know it, was a fabrication of the nineteenth century and the romantic notions of ancient Scotland and the glorious but tragic history of the HIghlands. The sari is influenced greatly by the notions of purity, an ancient Vedic (?) Hindu (?) principle. The most pure sari (if I am remembering correctly) is plain white cotton with no seams. Saris indicate caste and regional variations. Good luck! Althea On Friday, May 13, 2005, at 03:06 PM, Katie Lewis wrote: > Tea Rose: > >> >> Can someone point me at some books with accurate information as to >> the origins of the Scottish kilt and the Indian sari? I'm >> interested in whether there are any similarities in how these >> garments developed. > > _The Sari_ has some good information about the recent development of > the sari. You might also check out the archives of the SCA_India > yahoogroup for bibliographical information. There are also some good > websites on the topic, although the ones that deal with pre-19th > century dress tend to foucus on one time/place rather than giving a > survey. > > Based on what I've read, I don't think that there are a lot of > similarities in terms of the development of the actual garment. > As I understand it, the kilt sarted out as a large mantle/blanket > thing that eventually starts being pleated into a skirt-like garment, > and then the sewn little kilt happens. > The sari, as far as can be told, starts out as something that is > always worn draped and pleated into various configurations, including > some drapes that are more pants-like. > > However, there are some similarities. Both have become the symbolicly > important "national dress" of their country, and in both cases the > current "correct" manner of wearing the garment is a 19th century > development. > > -Katie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating > sites at once. > http://datingsearch.lycos.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:41:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBf9jS003221 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:41:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBeJrv081628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBeJ1I030819; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E1Nn8j013838 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 19:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.152] (pm5-152.eos.net [205.133.149.152]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j4E1NkRr019385 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 21:23:46 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 21:16:37 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505131802.j4DI0627081223@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: cockpit X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It sounds like Fran gave the right answer (gold star time!). My guess was going to be some fashionable place CALLED the "cockpit" to be daring and possibly racy. Sounds like Princess Anne and Prince George had the same idea! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:41:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBfETn003224 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:41:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBej62081760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBejOh031186; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E5Do5r032228 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 23:13:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050514051345012002h393e>; Sat, 14 May 2005 05:13:45 +0000 Message-ID: <009701c55843$b5856ac0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 01:13:47 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sears Catalog X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4GBfETn003224 Status: RO If anyone has a reproduction of the 1920s complete Sears catalog please contact me off-list. I am looking for something specific in it. The issue I saw had the ordering information in the center of the catalog. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:41:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBfFuO003227 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:41:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBenPx081785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBen3f031241; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52804.mail.yahoo.com (web52804.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4E5GLMv033617 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 23:16:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 85527 invoked by uid 60001); 14 May 2005 05:16:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=fLEzawfNV5yQhqYy7sRfJJ1uo4w7HufK6s0oUyL5rBXIOFxGNMJL+wWuNVkXH+JTFVngivdgNh0vE/gLGapPtL8E5ENl8fA5J5Ciqsm2SEmr+bP1k9+TXLsM9XYhF/kuWS8Y/MVbsgj+AWlJqbZ6W814O7dvFS4hSbpkzCiOv0g= ; Message-ID: <20050514051616.85525.qmail@web52804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52804.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 May 2005 22:16:16 PDT Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 22:16:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] A good question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cock fighting was just one alternative to bull baiting and bear baiting, another of the hideous blood sports adored by our forebears. In bull and bear baiting, a bull or bear would be tied to a stake and set upon by dogs (usually mastiffs or something of that ilk -- the English Bulldog was originally bred for this, and was much taller then), although not always until the bull or bear was killed, because bears and bulls were expensive. They could be killed, of course, but those who lived to fight many fights gained some reknown in their own right, like Sackerson the bear (mentioned in at least one Shakespeare play), and of course the dogs were often killed. An occasional variant was to tie a monkey to the back of a pony or donkey and set dogs after the terrified twosome -- I'm sure the pony would be killed, and probably the monkey as well, as they weren't as costly to replace. There was a huge pit for these kinds of contests outside the Globe Theater (or at least near it)! , and of course there were many others. The practice continued for some time, and yes, like cock fighting, the nobles loved it -- Elizabeth I was very fond of the "sport." Ick -- KP Suzi Clarke wrote: At 10:16 13/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess >of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the >people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a >cockpit? > ><<>> > >Cockfight occurs in a pit. It's an extremely lowbrow gambling >opportunity. It would be interesting to hear/read what the Duchess >had to say about her peers & cockfighting, I would query that it is entirely low brow. Certainly later in the 18th and early 19th century, all forms of fighting contests were a draw for the "toffs". Cock fighting and bare knuckle fighting come under that banner. If the people of the court were going, surely that means that it might have been considered low brow but the courtiers went slumming all the same? (You still find dogs fights - highly illegal - in South London where I live.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:41:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBfHOI003230 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:41:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBeesv081731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBeeIT031081; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E4Xg4f007961 for ; Fri, 13 May 2005 22:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005051404333701600r07vce>; Sat, 14 May 2005 04:33:37 +0000 Message-ID: <007001c5583e$1aee2b00$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 00:33:41 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] King Tut X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4GBfHOI003230 Status: RO I found this article today online about a team of scientists who construct a model of what King Tut looked like: http://www.wtvr.com/Global/story.asp?S=3335490&nav=KACdZmE5 At the end of the article it tells about a new world exhibit tour of King Tut's tomb. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:41:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBfLAM003233 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:41:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBetEs081816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBes1d031306; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4E86elh014112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 02:06:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4E86cOp027930; Sat, 14 May 2005 01:06:39 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "SCA-GARB" , "H-Costume" Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 01:10:29 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] SCORE! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to those who get this twice. I had to share with people who will understand why I'm thrilled. I stopped at my local Good Will Store on a whim tonight and found a Singer Touch and Sew, 1964 (all metal gears - made in the USA) in perfect condition with the original instruction book and a book on chain stitching. Both books are annotated and have samples of each stitch and examples of the binding foot inserted by the lovely lady named Jane (some labels in the bag o stuff) who must have worked to learn how to use her spiffy machine! Also, all 17 cams in the original boxes; 3 Throat plates, 7 weird bobbins, 3 slant needle feet (Straight, zipper and hemmer) (good thing since all my other machines use straight feet). 3 Straight feet that also fit (Binder foot, Button foot, and a "Special Purpose Foot" for hairline finishing that feeds a filler cord under the stitches or corded buttonholes) a seam guide, a plastic invisible zipper foot. Also a second spool holder for double needle work, and the thread guide and bobbin case cover to do chain stitching. From a very old machine - two feet, a hemmer and zipper foot. A bag with dozens of needles and pins, a blouse pattern (size 12, sigh!) buttons and hooks and eyes of various sizes and colors, an envelope of pearl headed corsage pins, electric scissors and lovely hand made brass pin - perfect for Historical use. It came in its original sewing table which is in perfect shape. Price: $47.50 for everything! Happy Dance!!! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Who now has one Old Pfaff, one new Pfaff (bah!), one Morse (boat anchor heavy and tough as nails), one 1924 Singer, one working 1900 Kaiser treadle with mother of pearl inlay and gold flowers, and now a Singer Touch and Sew :-) Whew! I knew you'd understand! Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:42:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBg44v003238 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:42:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBfYqc082071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:41:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBfXRj032000; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:41:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EEmFJu041411 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 08:48:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-67-77-118-8.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [67.77.118.8]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FEF301E7 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:48:15 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 10:48:00 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <000801c55893$ef5837a0$0500a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <008101c5586c$d3ed8c80$4c0badcb@ewalpole> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4EEmFJu041411 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Darn! I thought they all looked and talked like Mick Dundee! Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 6:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question To add my local bit to this discussion, Australians all talk like Steve Irwin (the crocodile Hunter) live in the outback (Australia of course has no cities), ride around on their pet Kangaroos and look like they haven't bathed for weeks. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:42:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBgFZd003242 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:42:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBfjOC082155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBfjoC032180; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EGtVTK023511 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 10:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1048724nzn for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:55:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=M6C4AJFnYVObo5v+aVgMz9EYM14R2lOB1+lTpiVk35RTYEGhvduqkhDODRrI6KNFx1noUO9mjrADDGsYoCc+W/TSB73aLo5JnLZWh3Go33DnGGoOiAt483H4IeLmSvYeNZ8+bHvKMXl3SMgp50bbrYSTipaOdVerHF1GFuZY/i4= Received: by 10.36.157.9 with SMTP id f9mr1394990nze; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2005 09:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 09:55:26 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Another Kingdom of Heaven question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4EGtVTK023511 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >No I believe Chicago ceased to exist c. 1940 when other areas got more interesting, ... There are of course other cities that popped into existence fully formed c. 1980 (I can't think of names but I'm sure people who watch more films than I do can come up with something) That would be Silicon Valley, where all nerds have bandaids on glasses, dress like dorks, drive silver Hondo accords, act like eunuchs and can hack into the FBI before the next commercial break. There's a robot or AI in every lab developed because the nerd is lonely. VR is accessible only to the the ur-nerd. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:42:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBgeF7003246 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBg4fL082325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:42:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBg3Yi032472; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:42:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f26.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4EMJdTI028782 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 16:19:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 May 2005 15:19:33 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:19:33 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.200] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505120229.j4C2TYXa068508@net.indra.com> From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:19:33 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 May 2005 22:19:33.0819 (UTC) FILETIME=[019AC0B0:01C558D3] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 311 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mike - you really made me laugh! Especially as my knee-jerk reaction to Tinkerbell was to snarl at her "I'm not a fairy, I'm a ROMAN" (I was in full SCA garb). She backed off fast, I was aghast at my bad manners, and my husband nearly had a coronary he was laughing so hard!! (Of course, he was dressed to the hilt in his 7th-century Saxon clothing, so go figure...) Good thing I DIDN'T have a shotgun! ------------------------------ Message: 10 Oh, the things you see when you don't have your shotgun... ;) Mike T. > IMO, the main difference: when I went to my first Ren Fair last year, > a girl flitted up to me - her skin was tinted green, she was wearing > some sort of gauzy "tinkerbell" costume complete with wings - and she > asked me if I would like to be sprinkled with fairy dust. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:43:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBh9aw003252 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:43:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBgf2Q082530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:42:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBgfto033073; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:42:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F4UtGv039647 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:30:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22204 for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 22:47:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 22:47:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A good question In-Reply-To: <002801c558fa$4b04a0f0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 14 May 2005, Penny Ladnier wrote: > 3. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu Whoa. I don't know what time period this book covers, but the Mary Wortley Montagu I know of is the person who introduced smallpox inoculation to Europe in the early 1700s -- the precursor to vaccination, and the only protection available against smallpox until Jenner invented his vaccine around 1800 or so. She learned of inoculation while in Turkey, where her husband was the British ambassador. She was known as a keen observer of Turkish customs and a skillful writer. If she had anything to say about costume, it would very likely be worth reading. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:43:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBhM5J003256 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:43:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBgo7R082591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:42:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBgoa9033236; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:42:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4F58wNo060785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 14 May 2005 23:09:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4F6RNHm028128 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 02:27:23 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Evolution of Fashion Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 01:08:51 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505150108.52297.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 14 May 2005 12:17 pm, Serena Dyer wrote: > I am planning to make up a pair of gentelman's breeches from the 1780 > section of 'The Evolution of Fashion: Pattern and Cut from 1066 to 1930' by > Margot Hamilton and wondered if anyone could give me any advice about how > to go about it. I have made breeches before, but never from this pattern > and I am a little dubious about them for unknown reasons! > > Any experience from any of the other patterns in the book would also be > nice to hear about, as I am planning to use a few of the other patterns in > the future. I have no personal experience with the book, but there is an SCA Compleat Anachronist pamphlet that has an article critiquing the book, particularly with regard to the quality of the patterns. It's Compleat Anachronist #38-- "Costume Studies III: Articles from 'Seams Like Old Times,'", and you can order it from http://www.sca.org (follow the links to "SCA Marketplace"). -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:45:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBjC5a003268 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:45:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBiV1S083212 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:44:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBiUiC034788; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:44:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-dav10.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4FJDlDH035592 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 13:13:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 15 May 2005 12:13:42 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 141.152.170.102 by BAY10-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 15 May 2005 19:13:42 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [141.152.170.102] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:13:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 15 May 2005 15:13:37 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 May 2005 19:13:42.0464 (UTC) FILETIME=[354AC400:01C55982] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4GBjC5a003268 Status: RO Wouldn't it be great to get PBS to re-do one of these shows with people who know a little more about the basics of living, and compare the ratings? Should we start a letter-writing campaign? "Re-enactor House..." "People who aren't totally clueless and really want to try living in the past House..." Or if they would even make available all the footage they shot, so we could hear from those who enjoyed the experience. I thought it was really sad that on "Frontier House," the one family couldn't think of a better way of getting their cow milked than to send the girl whose clothes had all been washed. They could have 1)sent someone else; 2)given her other people's clothes; 3)brought the cow to them, rather than going to the cow. ----- Original Message ----- From: Laura Waack To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 8:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House My husband & 4 children & I have watched most of these shows, but gave up because of the bickering the participants did. We used to play a game at the supper table where we put our family in the mix and talked about how we would do. I mentioned that there never seems to be any Midwestern farm families (like us) on the shows, and my husband said 'of course, because we would probably do OK, the kids are used to farm chores and animals, and there wouldn't be as much drama.' Our biggest complaint with the shows is how NO ONE stayed in period dress. If they were uncomfortable, they just took it off. How many of our pioneer grandmas really did that? But just trying it and finding out stuff would be SO INTERESTING. Did anyone see the one set in Canada, with only two families? I thought that was the best one, especially as they stayed through the winter. Berenice I agree, but the guess the idea is to take people most rooted in modern life, throw them into a recreated past and film what happens. Then edit it down into an entertainment show for the masses. Even for PBS, you gotta have buzz and ratings of some sort. What I would like to see is some sort of mix between reenactors who would insist on doing everything correctly, interested amateurs, like myself and probably a good portion of the list membership who would want to experience actually living and surviving in a past time as close as we could come sans time machine, and the willing but clueless who of course, represent the mass audience, who complain and rebel. Talk about ratings! Talk about sparks flying! Cindy Abel > As with all these series, I object to the director-editors who spend > time seeking out misfits in a cast or conflicts between individuals > that have no meaning or bearing on the period being scrutinized and > play these up to the omission of pertinent material. This is exactly right, and I think the program officials are wrong. I know many, many people who like to watch these shows and every one has mentioned disliking all the bickering and modern concepts that are introduced. It's pretty obvious that the producers are picking groups and families that would be at odds with each other in any circumstances, not just the stress of living in a time of unaccustomed hardship. I don't understand why people who would never dream of getting dirty or "doing without" would even apply for spot on these shows. My family applied to be a part of the one shot in Maine. We farm, we keep bees, sugar the maples, know how to sew and milk cows/goats, garden, make do and do without. We didn't even get a second contact. They *want* people to fail because they think it makes better television. The people who like that kind of program are watching Fear Factor, not PTV. In my opinion. Denise in Iowa _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 07:45:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GBjwr6003274 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:45:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GBjNmV083560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 05:45:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GBjMGY035538; Mon, 16 May 2005 05:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-09.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4G19rM4058975 for ; Sun, 15 May 2005 19:09:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 8528 invoked from network); 16 May 2005 01:09:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.1.230) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 16 May 2005 01:09:38 -0000 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 11:16:18 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <1AEC89AE-C5A8-11D9-B98E-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] mexican shirt pattern? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know if there's a commercial pattern anywhere for a men's mexican shirt? Thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 08:24:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GCOFH9003488 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:24:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GCNfLj091247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 06:23:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GCNdOs059401; Mon, 16 May 2005 06:23:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GCNZFR059271 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 06:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1e9.3c21289b (17526) for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:23:28 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1e9.3c21289b.2fb9eac0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:23:28 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCORE! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/16/2005 7:44:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, wandap@hevanet.com writes: Who now has one Old Pfaff, one new Pfaff (bah!), one Morse (boat anchor heavy and tough as nails), one 1924 Singer, one working 1900 Kaiser treadle with mother of pearl inlay and gold flowers, and now a Singer Touch and Sew That was indeed some score--congratulations! And I thought my 5 machines was excessive: My mom's White Rotary from the 1930s (needs a new cord, alas!) Early 1970s Singer (came with my husband when we got married in 1979) that I pretty much sewed to death, but haven't gotten rid of The Kenmore I got for college graduation in 1973 My wonderful Bernina, bought in 2000 My Pfaff serger, Ph.D. graduation present in 1992 that, alas, I may need to consider replacing, although I'll try to have it serviced first--it still sews, but VERY slowly, not at all like its zippy self--I believe this was, though, made by the OLD Pfaff company before they got bought out, so there may be hope for it Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 08:33:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GCXaaD003537 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GCWmB4092936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 06:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GCWlkm065126; Mon, 16 May 2005 06:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4GCWhwd065021 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 06:32:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2005 12:32:37 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050516132925.014d9910@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:32:48 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCORE! In-Reply-To: <1e9.3c21289b.2fb9eac0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:23 16/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >In a message dated 5/16/2005 7:44:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >wandap@hevanet.com writes: > >Who now has one Old Pfaff, one new Pfaff (bah!), one Morse (boat anchor >heavy and tough as nails), one 1924 Singer, one working 1900 Kaiser treadle >with mother of pearl inlay and gold flowers, and now a Singer Touch and Sew > > > >That was indeed some score--congratulations! > >And I thought my 5 machines was excessive: >My mom's White Rotary from the 1930s (needs a new cord, alas!) >Early 1970s Singer (came with my husband when we got married in 1979) that I >pretty much sewed to death, but haven't gotten rid of >The Kenmore I got for college graduation in 1973 >My wonderful Bernina, bought in 2000 >My Pfaff serger, Ph.D. graduation present in 1992 that, alas, I may need to >consider replacing, although I'll try to have it serviced first--it still >sews, but VERY slowly, not at all like its zippy self--I believe this was, >though, made by the OLD Pfaff company before they got bought out, so >there may be >hope for it Erm - one Singer commercial serger, 50 plus years old. One hand cranked Singer, unknown age One Singer Starlet, (of a type that 97 out of 100 went back to the makers as bad machines - mine is wonderful) One Singer about 10 years old - only goes wrong when I try to sew through corset steel And my aunt's small portable Frister and Rossman, supposedly a "good" machine, can't stand up to my Singers. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 09:32:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GDWCJx003959 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:32:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GDQMmx001810 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 07:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GDQLg6000125; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:26:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4GDQIVE099925 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:26:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJTH4FAJ75J6S for (sender ); Mon, 16 May 2005 06:25:25 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7xBmhHt3c8aWrtUNHBgXCmPeuI3F9c9FWA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KS5HWVNS; Mon, 16 May 2005 06:24:59 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:20:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Subject: [h-cost] A good question Message-ID: <20050516.082028.-100971371.1.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,13-16,24-27,34-38,39-32767 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 12:6:3069475402 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that this is one of those times when we tend to see the past thru Victorian glasses. Our ancestors in the 16th and 17th centuries tended to be a bit less prudish and more.....um.....earthy than we usually think. I know that in the Elizabethan era, women could go to various 'sporting' events that later ages might have deemed inappropriate. Elizabethans gambled like fiends and I'm sure that 'contests' like this would have been prime opportunities for both sexes. There's a pub near Blackfriars (the Tube station and the Shakespearian theatre), right across the street from St. Andrew-by-Wardrobe (which really is right by the site of the old Royal Wardrobe) called 'The Cockpit' which started out life as (you guessed it) a cockpit. When the sport was outlawed in the 19th century, the cockpit was built over but not destoyed. In later years, the pit was uncovered and refurbished and is now a working (but not fighting) part of the pub. Gotta go have a pint there the next time I'm over! >From All-In-London: "A pub has stood on this site since the 16th century. The Cockpit takes its name from the fact that it used to be a major venue for gambling during cock fights. When cock fighting was outlawed in 1849, the pub's name changed to the Three Castles but it has since been sympathetically refurbished with the old name and the old gallery both fully reinstated. The Cockpit also provides a range of entertainment including a big screen TV showing major sporting events on Sky TV." Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 09:38:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GDcCxv003986 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:38:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GDap0f003546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 07:36:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GDans1007203; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:36:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GDagll007095 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 07:36:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from FyneHats2@aol.com) Received: from FyneHats2@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.fe.13a0efab (3996) for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:36:34 -0400 (EDT) From: FyneHats2@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:36:34 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5117 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sarah Jennings biography terms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/13/2005 1:21:20 AM Central Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:45:45 -0400 From: "Penny Ladnier" Subject: [h-cost] A good question To: "h-costume" Message-ID: <003401c55755$1962f700$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am work on reproducing a biography about Sarah Jennings aka Duchess of Marlborough from 1660-1700s. The book keeps referring to the people of the court going to the cockpit in London. What is a cockpit? <<>> Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com I believe this refers to the place where cock fighting as an entertainment was held. I know it had been a big attraction along with bear baiting since Shakespear's time. Usually it was held outside in a special area (cockpit) in or near an inn or pub. This is just off the top of my head at the moment. If someone has documentation --please add to this. Donna Scarfe (Mistress Felicity) Fyne Hats By Felicity Period Headgear for Past Ages www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 10:17:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GEHw4t004228 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 10:17:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GEHKpO010110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 08:17:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GEHHU7037019; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:17:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from lakermmtao01.cox.net (lakermmtao01.cox.net [68.230.240.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GEHATv036752 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:17:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.186.193.176]) by lakermmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050516141705.OQKS11036.lakermmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 10:17:05 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 10:17:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Thread-Index: AcVaFBurcoA66cSsRnOgMicVY3w5xAADPYAw In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050516132925.014d9910@127.0.0.1> Message-Id: <20050516141705.OQKS11036.lakermmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay! I can play too-- One Singer Slanto-matic (mother's) form the 1960's One Singer from 1968 (both have lots of cams, buttonholer & other attachments) and METAL gears One Singer Featherweight One Singer treadle One Singer handcrank 99K (I think) One Singer 28K handcrank One modern plain Singer that does have a freearm & stretch stitch Hmmmm- I think I had better stop looking at old machines on e-bay. ;) Anne Oh yes- One Baby Lock serger (given to me- haven't tried using it yet) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 10:54:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GEsDFm004469 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 10:54:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GEqcxX014267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 08:52:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GEqZgb067276; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:52:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4GEqUNB067129 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:52:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2005 14:52:24 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050516155211.015f5058@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:52:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! In-Reply-To: <20050516141705.OQKS11036.lakermmtao01.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTE R> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050516132925.014d9910@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:17 16/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Okay! I can play too-- > >One Singer Slanto-matic (mother's) form the 1960's >One Singer from 1968 (both have lots of cams, buttonholer & other >attachments) and METAL gears >One Singer Featherweight >One Singer treadle >One Singer handcrank 99K (I think) >One Singer 28K handcrank >One modern plain Singer that does have a freearm & stretch stitch > >Hmmmm- I think I had better stop looking at old machines on e-bay. ;) > >Anne > >Oh yes- One Baby Lock serger (given to me- haven't tried using it yet) You win - unless anyone knows better................! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 11:11:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GFB8Bf004569 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:11:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GFAUJ7016547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 09:10:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GFAETA082685; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GFA327082530 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:10:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net ([192.168.167.46]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DXhEI-0001lK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:10:02 -0400 Message-ID: <22223006.1116256202686.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:10:02 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: OK. I admit that I'm not up on Viking culture, but didn't Vikings have music? Didn't they dance? I can't imagine a group noted for alcohol consumption that didn't have some form of dancing at their gatherings. Julie ---- wrote: > I once saw a group of party girls at a Viking re-creation feast asking when the dance music came on, Well, these guys seem to think the Vikings had music, at least :) http://www.krauka.dk/ ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 11:26:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GFQtO9004683 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:26:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GFQF57018966 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 09:26:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GFQDi8096940; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:26:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GFQAdG096896 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:26:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net ([192.168.167.39]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DXhTt-0006Q1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:26:09 -0400 Message-ID: <633468.1116257168987.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 11:26:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT? Shirwana pattern? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know if there's a commercial pattern anywhere for a men's mexican shirt? Thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ I can't answer this, but I'm looking for a commercial pattern for a Shirwana jacket (men's, Indian) for a production of A Perfect Ganesh. I already have the Folkwear pattern for the kurta ("Jewels of India"). A web crawl yielded nothing, but I'm not the most resourceful crawler... Thanks for any help-- Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 11:46:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GFk9gV004845 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GFjVFL021591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 09:45:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GFjFk4014455; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:45:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.172]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4GFjAgX014326 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:45:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73729 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2005 15:45:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2irG7Qz+Qi8mAZrt0ahKsVE5BkxiwDWoIZ9T6w4ID4CffrM0tlHe+bgtXQs/0OKTt75ZEwnWvm8a392LPn0X97aH+22wfTmrVXAZN2k4+jLg3W6iQitoyMxlTERhvg7wHsVvrf1Dic64yEFRYrl2MXT4JH9yQQgW9PWLZleATjg= ; Message-ID: <20050516154504.73727.qmail@web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31009.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:45:04 PDT Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCORE! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-sonic.net-Metrics: net.indra.com 1117; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ohhhhhhhhhh GOOD FOR YOU!!! I may have to start going again... Chris G. Wanda Pease wrote: Sorry to those who get this twice. I had to share with people who will understand why I'm thrilled. I stopped at my local Good Will Store on a whim tonight and found a Singer Touch and Sew, 1964 (all metal gears - made in the USA) in perfect condition with the original instruction book and a book on chain stitching. Both books are annotated and have samples of each stitch and examples of the binding foot inserted by the lovely lady named Jane (some labels in the bag o stuff) who must have worked to learn how to use her spiffy machine! Also, all 17 cams in the original boxes; 3 Throat plates, 7 weird bobbins, 3 slant needle feet (Straight, zipper and hemmer) (good thing since all my other machines use straight feet). 3 Straight feet that also fit (Binder foot, Button foot, and a "Special Purpose Foot" for hairline finishing that feeds a filler cord under the stitches or corded buttonholes) a seam guide, a plastic invisible zipper foot. Also a second spool holder for double needle work, and the thread guide and bobbin case cover to do chain stitching. From a very old machine - two feet, a hemmer and zipper foot. A bag with dozens of needles and pins, a blouse pattern (size 12, sigh!) buttons and hooks and eyes of various sizes and colors, an envelope of pearl headed corsage pins, electric scissors and lovely hand made brass pin - perfect for Historical use. It came in its original sewing table which is in perfect shape. Price: $47.50 for everything! Happy Dance!!! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Who now has one Old Pfaff, one new Pfaff (bah!), one Morse (boat anchor heavy and tough as nails), one 1924 Singer, one working 1900 Kaiser treadle with mother of pearl inlay and gold flowers, and now a Singer Touch and Sew :-) Whew! I knew you'd understand! Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 12:24:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GGO9nI005335 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:24:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GGNTGZ026316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 10:23:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GGNMga048568; Mon, 16 May 2005 10:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4GFw69F025933 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:58:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail35.nyc.untd.com (webmail35.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.175]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJTSY2AQXS47S for (sender ); Mon, 16 May 2005 08:57:12 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7xBmhHt3c8aWM85NXflAdMJKUuIAP/Fq0w== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail35.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KS5SL9HN; Mon, 16 May 2005 08:57:01 PDT Received: from [24.14.7.158] by webmail35.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:56:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.7.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:56:22 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050516.085701.4900.25995@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:1726882927 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.175|webmail35.nyc.untd.com|webmail35.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sure the Vikings (and other people of the period) had lots of music, song, and dancing. The big problem is that we don't know any of it! They didn't write it down and with the passage of years, the change in instrumentation, and the evolution of musical styles, it's very difficult to guess what a Norse ballad sounded like when it was sung in a mead-hall. And as for what dances they did, we have even less of a clue. Although, a number of years ago I ran across a reference that indicated a Christian missionary to the Norse was appalled by the Norse men dancing 'hip swinging dances' to honor the god of fertility Frey. What exactly were 'hip swinging dances'? I have no idea, but the idea of big, burly Vikings doing belly-dance is just too hilarious to ignore. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 12:24:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GGOg39005338 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GGO9I8026397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 10:24:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GGO9ch049358; Mon, 16 May 2005 10:24:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GGA48J036942 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 10:10:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.119.150.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.119.150]) by pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DXiAN-0004gj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 May 2005 09:10:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:09:56 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] mexican shirt pattern? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Does anyone know if there's a commercial pattern anywhere for a men's >mexican shirt? > >Thanks, Aylwen What sort of Mexican man's shirt? It's a large and diverse country with multiple ethnic groups and sub-cultures... Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 13:13:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GHDRkY010864 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:13:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GHCqtR032888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 11:12:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GHCT9x094474; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:12:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:5zZCkheRi+inNxwFAVm7LDU96P1dGAID@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GHBg8K093756 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:11:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j4GHBdh2006210 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:11:39 -0400 Received: from dci012034013154.discovery.com ([12.34.13.154]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50478.12.34.13.154.1116263499.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Should we start a letter-writing campaign? "Re-enactor > House..." "People who aren't totally clueless and really want to try > living in the past House..." Maybe we could do both - use reenactors, and then get the secret footage of us arguing the finer points of authenticity, maybe have a tent blow away in a wind storm... I can just see someone breaking into tears because she can't have the modern convenience of her Janet Arnold books. I think we reenactors have our moments, too, and if a long-term experience was distilled down into just the drama and conflicts, there would still be plenty of footage for a few hours of a somewhat similar show. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 13:48:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GHmkwh011237 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:48:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GHlaJA040337 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 11:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GHlVb5031973; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GHlQpX031757 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8DC3A624 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:47:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4288DCCC.2080407@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:47:56 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cool BBC costume and social history site X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Found this while browsing. The BBC has a huge section of links to historical trivia and games, this one takes you to the "Dress a Tudor or Victorian Person" page, but there are links left and right for related multimedia , history and articles. Back up to the Home page and there are links to all time periods. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/society/launch_gms_costumes.shtml Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 14:01:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GI1a7x011362 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:01:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GI0orZ042458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 12:00:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GI0lJ6046282; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:00:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GI0j8P046174 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so3628685wra for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:00:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=qXUShEzDygKBPzJos8larXN0bj7kPP2H3tHeAc2c2HwgowNJGonFvanW9mJLVksH5IB5uiYGfdwCJ718DxAVwQNJOTvmxSLxEscj7qgOa/PnSOEyZtMyExrd4VtZvuHiqndUKiw10xrp3vREoqY/CLfyJOBo1xcllo0KUXA6zuI= Received: by 10.54.24.46 with SMTP id 46mr3810128wrx; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05051611003af25fc4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 11:00:39 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A good question In-Reply-To: <002801c558fa$4b04a0f0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <002801c558fa$4b04a0f0$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4GI0j8P046174 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sarah Churchill's story was one of the first two Masterpiece Theatres in the US, the BBC productions that arrived here in the late 1970s. I was totally fascinated by the whole story line and found an interest in a new historical period. Thanks to her, Masterpiece Theatre became a habit in my family for years and years. I would like to suggest that your next Queen of Society be Mary, Countess of Pembroke. First, generally, because so many of the people on this list are focused on the Renaissance, especially Tudor England. Mary (Sidney the Younger) Herbert, Countess of Pembroke, was one of the most educated, articulate and influential women in her generation. Her family served the Tudor Kings, Henry VII through Elizabeth and later. Her son is mentioned in connection to Shakespeare's successes and his sonnets. Related by blood to both the Dudleys and Sussex, the Sidney family was very well place. There were three generations of brilliant women before James I decided that women should be silent stupid. The two Mary Sidneys were at in top five of two of those generations. Mary Pembroke wrote in four languages, helped her brother, Philip Sidney, write his plays and poetry and helped publish him posthumously. She was incredible. Most selfishly, I'd like you to put her online next because she is a character I played in the big Northern California Renaissance Faire from 1980 until 1997-9?, whenever we left Novato and I quit doing that faire. I still bring her out to the small renaissance fair in San Luis Obispo in mid-July. On 5/14/05, Penny Ladnier wrote: > We are typing the entire book, Queens of Society. After the 1860 and 1862 > publications, the book was divided up into two books and two other books > were written for etiquette. This made a set of 4 volumes published around > 1900. In my 1860 book, there are 17 Queens of Society. As for Sarah's > section, there was little mentioned of the fashions. One of my assts. is > typing Madame Roland at the moment. I am waiting to hear her response about > it. What she has said so far, it sounds like it is full of name-dropping > like the Sarah's section. I think we will type Madame Recamier next. She > was very influential in fashion. > > If you all want, I have placed a table of contents below. Let me know which > of the other ladies that you would like to see there section typed after > Recamier. Whoever receives the most nominations/votes will be the fourth > Lady of Society to be typed. Please give a reason why... I have not > researched the backgrounds but on the three ladies I mentioned. As I said > before I am very weak on my European history so any advice would be welcome. > So your input is appreciated. > > BTW, the later versions with the two volumes of Queens of Society is the > same as my single book. I guess they just enlarged the font size of the > type (thank goodness). I checked that out with some vintage book dealers > who have copies of the later editions. If you want to purchase this book, > do a google search for Queens of Society by Grace and Philip Wharton. If > they claim the book is undated, it is from the four volume set from the > early 1900. I found the Queens sets around $30-50. I plan down the road to > purchase the two volumes about etiquette. > > Here is a list of the Table of Contents for "Queens of Society:" > 1. Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough > 2. Madame Roland > 3. Lady Mary Wortley Montagu > 4. Letitia Elizabeth Landon, (L.E.L) > 5. Madame de Sevigne > 6. Sydney Lady Morgan > 7. Jane, Duchess of Gordon > 8. Madame Recamier > 9. Lady Hervey > 10. Madame de Stael > 11. Mrs. Thrale-Piozzi > 12. Lady Caroline Lamb > 13. Anne Seymour Damer > 14. La Marquise du Deffand > 15. Mrs. Elizabeth Montagu > 16. Mary, Countess of Pembroke > 17. La Marquise de Maintenon > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 14:09:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GI9trC011421 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:09:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GI9Fgh043366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 12:09:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GI94kE053806; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.89] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GI8suT053570 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:09:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 May 2005 11:08:49 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.208 by BAY106-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:08:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.208] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050516.085701.4900.25995@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:08:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:08:51 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2005 18:08:49.0062 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F0E8460:01C55A42] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4GI9trC011421 Status: RO Although, a number of years ago I ran across a reference that indicated a Christian missionary to the Norse was appalled by the Norse men dancing 'hip swinging dances' to honor the god of fertility Frey. What exactly were 'hip swinging dances'? I have no idea, but the idea of big, burly Vikings doing belly-dance is just too hilarious to ignore. Personally, it brings to mind the furor over "Elvis the Pelvis" and other sexy rock & roll dancers. Not that I can picture Elvis as a Viking, but I can picture some Viking-types I know doing those moves. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 14:13:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GIDrB3011455 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GIDK83043762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 12:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GIDIjt057472; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GIDB0H057398 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DXk5W-000Chm-8x for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:13:10 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:11:44 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? References: <22223006.1116256202686.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <22223006.1116256202686.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had a friend who used to insist "Vikings Don't Dance" - but I think that was more due to his total lack of co-ordination, and therefore the danger to bystanders when he did dance, than any historical proof! Jean Chris Laning wrote >Julie wrote: > >OK. I admit that I'm not up on Viking culture, but didn't Vikings have >music? Didn't they dance? I can't imagine a group noted for alcohol >consumption that didn't have some form of dancing at their gatherings. >Julie >---- wrote: >> I once saw a group of party girls at a Viking re-creation feast >>asking when the dance music came on, > >Well, these guys seem to think the Vikings had music, at least :) > >http://www.krauka.dk/ > >____________________________________________________________ >0 Chris Laning >| >+ Davis, California >____________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 14:21:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GILnIe011526 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GIL9nN044784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 12:21:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GIL79l065071; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:21:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GIL3Tl064999 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:21:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779DB3C534 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:21:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 39562C61F for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:21:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Viking Music? Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:21:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's just a step to right... :) De -----Original Message----- Although, a number of years ago I ran across a reference that indicated a Christian missionary to the Norse was appalled by the Norse men dancing 'hip swinging dances' to honor the god of fertility Frey. What exactly were 'hip swinging dances'? I have no idea, but the idea of big, burly Vikings doing belly-dance is just too hilarious to ignore. Personally, it brings to mind the furor over "Elvis the Pelvis" and other sexy rock & roll dancers. Not that I can picture Elvis as a Viking, but I can picture some Viking-types I know doing those moves. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 15:46:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GJkcAB012332 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 15:46:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GJjf6w057331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 13:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GJjbB8043427; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:45:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GJjT71043261 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 13:45:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AF43FEBA for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 103A7394D; Mon, 16 May 2005 12:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:45:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCORE! X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCiPhWAA8J3AEAAAAB,58c18113f3edf0446bfe36c7c5b01cfa Message-Id: <20050516194527.103A7394D@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You did make a great score. Congratulations. I thought everyone had a bunch of sewing machines laying around. Mine? 1955 Singer 301 slant needle with zig zag and button hole attachments (that is the best of the lot) five year old New Home (that cost a bundle and is pretty finiky, but good when it wants to be) twenty five year old Kenmore in cabinet with more attachments, cams, and stuff than I will ever use (belonged to my mother) Singer 401 (given to me by a friend) Pfaff - probably 50 years old (given to me by a friend) New Home model NLB, in a cabinet, with instruction book and lots of accessories at least 40 years old (given to me by a friend) Pfaff serger (fussy little monster, but beautiful stitching) Brother serger (a back up for the fussy little Pfaff) and my latest acquisition that I purchased at an auction last month: An 1889 Singer tredle machine in cabinet with instruction book, accessories and it works! I don't count the really old electric Singer that I haven't been able to get to work yet, but I only paid five bucks for it at a flea market and I still have hopes when I have time to fiddle with it. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Wanda Pease" wrote: From: "Wanda Pease" Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 01:10:29 -0700 To: "SCA-GARB" , "H-Costume" Subject: [h-cost] SCORE! Sorry to those who get this twice. I had to share with people who will understand why I'm thrilled. I stopped at my local Good Will Store on a whim tonight and found a Singer Touch and Sew, 1964 (all metal gears - made in the USA) in perfect condition with the original instruction book and a book on chain stitching. Both books are annotated and have samples of each stitch and examples of the binding foot inserted by the lovely lady named Jane (some labels in the bag o stuff) who must have worked to learn how to use her spiffy machine! Also, all 17 cams in the original boxes; 3 Throat plates, 7 weird bobbins, 3 slant needle feet (Straight, zipper and hemmer) (good thing since all my other machines use straight feet). 3 Straight feet that also fit (Binder foot, Button foot, and a "Special Purpose Foot" for hairline finishing that feeds a filler cord under the stitches or corded buttonholes) a seam guide, a plastic invisible zipper foot. Also a second spool holder for double needle work, and the thread guide and bobbin case cover to do chain stitching. From a very old machine - two feet, a hemmer and zipper foot. A bag with dozens of needles and pins, a blouse pattern (size 12, sigh!) buttons and hooks and eyes of various sizes and colors, an envelope of pearl headed corsage pins, electric scissors and lovely hand made brass pin - perfect for Historical use. It came in its original sewing table which is in perfect shape. Price: $47.50 for everything! Happy Dance!!! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Who now has one Old Pfaff, one new Pfaff (bah!), one Morse (boat anchor heavy and tough as nails), one 1924 Singer, one working 1900 Kaiser treadle with mother of pearl inlay and gold flowers, and now a Singer Touch and Sew :-) Whew! I knew you'd understand! Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 16:13:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GKDPhp012661 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 16:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GKCoub064924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 14:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GKClvo068289; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GKChcW068220 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:12:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DXlxB-0006ZM-9J; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:12:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:11:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: trousers References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO C M wrote >Hi, > >I made a pair of trousers following the remains detailed in the first >Haithabu publication on textiles (Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von >Haithabu, Hägg, 1984) and it was quite easy to see how closely they >follow the “original” pattern of the pants found in Thorsberg. >Apart from the fact that the remains of the trouser legs were probably >double layers (the fabric was *very* fine) and the orientation and >structure of the leg remains indicated that they were probably wide, >not narrow, there was virtually no difference. I should have phrased >the “exactly the same” differently, sorry, what I meant to say was >that the parts that define this particular cut (cause others are >different) are the same. The same dimensions, however, are not that >hard to come to terms with, when you assume a similar built of the >wearer, with the assumption that there might not have been as much >physical diversity then as there is nowadays (which is clearly an >assumption, no proof, but a feasible one). > >Caithlinn > If they are baggy, it may be more that the same dimensions will fit several different sizes of wearer. My husband is six inches taller and fifty pounds heavier than me, but there is only about two inches difference in the size of our baggy braies. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 16:13:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GKDWRr012664 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 16:13:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GKCoXJ064925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 14:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GKClxu068290; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GKChex068219 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 14:12:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DXlxB-0006ZM-9J; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:12:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:11:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: trousers References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@net.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO C M wrote >Hi, > >I made a pair of trousers following the remains detailed in the first >Haithabu publication on textiles (Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von >Haithabu, Hägg, 1984) and it was quite easy to see how closely they >follow the “original” pattern of the pants found in Thorsberg. >Apart from the fact that the remains of the trouser legs were probably >double layers (the fabric was *very* fine) and the orientation and >structure of the leg remains indicated that they were probably wide, >not narrow, there was virtually no difference. I should have phrased >the “exactly the same” differently, sorry, what I meant to say was >that the parts that define this particular cut (cause others are >different) are the same. The same dimensions, however, are not that >hard to come to terms with, when you assume a similar built of the >wearer, with the assumption that there might not have been as much >physical diversity then as there is nowadays (which is clearly an >assumption, no proof, but a feasible one). > >Caithlinn > If they are baggy, it may be more that the same dimensions will fit several different sizes of wearer. My husband is six inches taller and fifty pounds heavier than me, but there is only about two inches difference in the size of our baggy braies. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 18:51:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GMpcWO013980 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:51:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GMom47085939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 16:50:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GMoYZF010670; Mon, 16 May 2005 16:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4GMoW7M010563 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 16:50:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 2470 invoked by uid 60001); 16 May 2005 22:50:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20050516225026.2468.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.140.116] by web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 23:50:26 BST Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 23:50:26 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050516194527.103A7394D@sitemail.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ladies, as a mere male, I am minded to let you know that you aren't the only ones to whom this kind of "find" happens. I dropped-in to our local Oxfam Centre [our equivalent of the US "Goodwill" shops, maybe?] a few month's back, to collect some "donated" garden-type wrought-iron work as the base for a charcoal brazier, and to look for any wood vessels, earthenware, and glass which our group might use at our "noonmeals" when "on stage" at Gorey Castle. The Oxfam Centre Organiser was unloading a van-load of donations, [mostly furniture], and struggling a bit on his own; and I offered a helping hand. Unloading done, while taking a quick look round the cluttered "back store-room" for "feast-tableware", I stubbed my toes on an old handpowered Singer covered in dust in a corner beneath the cluttered shelves I was examining, and on an impulse asked "how much"? The answer was - "if you can use it, take it - we'll never sell that! But have a look in that old leather bag, and in the plastic case behind it, there are two other sewing machines in there which we've had for a very long time, too, if you are interested". I took a quick look - a dusty Italian-made plastic-bodied Singer 367 which seemed complete, in the bag; - and in the plastic carrying-case scuffed and thick with dust, a shining new machine with all accessories, handbook, etc. "How Much?" says I. " Oh, would Ł10 be too much? Say Ł15 for the bowl, jugs, glasses, and the modern machine - you can have the two old Singers for helping me unload the van" I paid-up, loaded-up, and departed hastily, before he had second-thoughts. In the case was a virtually unused "Bernina 801 Automatic Electronic". Our Wardrobe Mistress seems to think I got "a good deal" - 3 working sewing machines in return for 30 minutes helping to unload a van, and Ł10 in cash. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 19:16:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4GNGq30014074 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:16:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4GNGN0i088470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 17:16:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GNGLVX032851; Mon, 16 May 2005 17:16:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4GNGIYl032524 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 17:16:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005051623155801100iv9m8e>; Mon, 16 May 2005 23:15:58 +0000 Message-ID: <013801c55a6d$3cb81800$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:16:06 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Online Classes Starting X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4GNGq30014074 Status: RO The Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com , we have three online classes that might interest you all. Two of these classes include a three month subscription to our online Library. We have two online classes starting on Monday: ***A Fitting Image: Regency Clothing in Fashion Plates ***Elizabethan Glove Making: Make your own pair of gloves ***Beginning Embroidery: Techniques Used from 1910 - 1920: Part 1 The Beginning Embroidery is taught from the 1916-1920 Mary Brooks Picken's Domestic Arts embroidery series books. This class will also include embroidery patterns from the 19th Century in our online Library. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 20:35:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H0ZbLB014460 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H0YS4w096049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 18:34:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H0YP08090748; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:34:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H0YMc1090705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:34:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4H0YHOr008660 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 17:34:22 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:38:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20050516194527.103A7394D@sitemail.everyone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whatever you do keep all the instruction books. I looked up mine and they are nearly as much to replace with originals as I paid for the machine. What I really want now is the button hole attachment. Again, that's as much as I paid for the whole thing. Wanda > > New Home model NLB, in a cabinet, with instruction book and > lots of accessories at least 40 years old (given to me by a > friend) > > Pfaff serger (fussy little monster, but beautiful stitching) > > Brother serger (a back up for the fussy little Pfaff) > > and my latest acquisition that I purchased at an auction last > month: > > An 1889 Singer tredle machine in cabinet with instruction > book, accessories and it works! > > I don't count the really old electric Singer that I haven't > been able to get to work yet, but I only paid five bucks for it > at a flea market and I still have hopes when I have time to > fiddle with it. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 20:45:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H0jFwj014517 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:45:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H0iV2n097062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 18:44:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H0iURo097822; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:44:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H0iRix097774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:44:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4H0iPOp012736 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 17:44:26 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] another SCORE! Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:48:14 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20050516225026.2468.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read this! That was indeed a "good deal" I keep reading about your group and Gorey Castle which I saw several years ago and really wish there was some way to guide our England/Scotland trip that way for at least one day! At least I may get to visit Terafan if he hasn't been swept off to other places. It is so nice of you to enjoy historical costuming and SCA talk without feeling the need to sneer or take the moral high ground with "we're more authentic than you are". Makes learning from you and your group so very pleasant because the defensive mechanism doesn't kick in! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness > I paid-up, loaded-up, and departed hastily, before he had second-thoughts. > In the case was a virtually unused "Bernina 801 Automatic Electronic". > Our Wardrobe Mistress seems to think I got "a good deal" - 3 > working sewing machines in return for 30 minutes helping to > unload a van, and Ł10 in cash. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 22:10:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H2AWab014960 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:10:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H29TgN005487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 20:09:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H29NRU059479; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:09:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f15.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H29K1e059332 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:09:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:09:15 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 02:09:15 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.200] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505161546.j4GFjcnd014761@net.indra.com> From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 02:09:15 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2005 02:09:15.0249 (UTC) FILETIME=[6CCD9610:01C55A85] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Frontier House/Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone remember the very first one - Victorian or Edwardian House? That was one of the best ones - what I remember the most is how they discovered how incredibly BORED the women got because of the restrictions on their lives. They said they thought that was why melodramas became so popular because it was an outlet. So I liked that one because they actually learned something about the way our ancestors lived that they wouldn't have figured out without someone actually trying to live that way. I knew their lives were restrictive, but watching the women try to live it and get so frustrated brought it home. And talk about using clueless people - on Frontier House the bride, on her first day there, was shown (in her chemise) holding cans of baking powder and soda and saying "What ARE these? Am I expected to cook with them?" Groan. berenice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 22:35:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H2YrBk015099 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:35:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H2YAY2008180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 20:34:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2Y97K077770; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:34:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2Y7HZ077675 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:34:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1589217nzn for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Im2HvEXP1zTWdpUiMp6aw2cBYXhJLGv0YsNwASYZ1GSRnjnA4gxqmaPZfuloIxS1C91JePURPxfL6PABSwI7DSQ901X9PuJnagEIjaXfEpLRiywhCPo/zx/ZHdd7UcgtFpQWhzT49GrIYQSInscqudHzbhf0lIb6E4xQ3vB2QBE= Received: by 10.36.158.1 with SMTP id g1mr1993793nze; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:34:01 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCORE! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4H2Y7HZ077675 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Three or more of anything is a collection! I was just gifted with my 6th machine this weekend, clearly filling a hole in my every other decade theme. Without apologies: 1990s Viking embroidery machine; the only one I trust on delicate fabrics. 1980s Babylock serger with differential feed and auto-threading. Ah, delicious. 1961 vintage Sears Kenmore, does leather, canvas and even Kevlar (the bullet proof stuff) albeit s*l*o*w*l*y. (The kevlar was for a competition epee fencing jacket.) 1940s Kenmore in it's original worktable. Just received this weekend; havent tried it yet, but it's got the book, and lots of fiddley bits. Rumored that an SCA tent was made or repaired using this machine. Hefty! 1920s "electrified" Singer (a former treadle converted to electric) acquired 2yrs ago at the wonderful Stanford Treasure Market in it's original worktable. 1897 Amazon handcranked "portable" machine, if 40 lbs is "portable". Gold & red paint on black iron decoration, in original "carrying" case. Fabulous ruffler, ribbon setting and piping attachments. The others just cant beat it. --cin Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCORE! >One hand cranked Singer, unknown age ... >Suzi Singer was an American company. Patent numbers for my Amazon are on one of the coverplates. See if you can find them on yours. You might amuse yourself by looking up the patent numbers on USPTO.gov That would give you a "no earlier than..." date. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 22:45:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H2jOKN015132 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:45:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H2ibXG009113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 20:44:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2iaIq084926; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:44:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2iWOB084813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:44:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H436Cw014175 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:03:06 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 22:44:26 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200505131834.OAA26910@swiftsure.concentric.com> In-Reply-To: <200505131834.OAA26910@swiftsure.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505162244.26747.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 13 May 2005 2:34 pm, Julie wrote: > OK. I admit that I'm not up on Viking culture, but didn't Vikings have > music? Didn't they dance? I can't imagine a group noted for alcohol > consumption that didn't have some form of dancing at their gatherings. I remember that they have found bone flutes and the remains of other instruments in digs, so the Vikings must have had music. What the music sounded like, and whether and how they danced to it, I have no idea. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 22:47:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H2lGL5015146 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:47:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H2kaaT009249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 20:46:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2kZse086296; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:46:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2kWik086209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:46:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H4560L014200 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:05:07 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 22:46:26 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050516.085701.4900.25995@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> In-Reply-To: <20050516.085701.4900.25995@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505162246.27032.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 16 May 2005 11:56 am, penhalion@juno.com wrote: [snip] > And as for what dances they did, we have even less of a clue. Although, a > number of years ago I ran across a reference that indicated a Christian > missionary to the Norse was appalled by the Norse men dancing 'hip swinging > dances' to honor the god of fertility Frey. Oooh, I never heard of that. Do you remember where you saw the reference, by chance? > What exactly were 'hip swinging > dances'? I have no idea, but the idea of big, burly Vikings doing > belly-dance is just too hilarious to ignore. On the other hand, it might have looked more like the "Time Warp" from the Rocky Horror Picture Show (the connection to Frey, the well-endowed fertility god, made me think of this). -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 22:48:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H2m83s015152 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H2lUsX009348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 20:47:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2lTpA087083; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:47:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H2lQ4G086943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 20:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H460t2014216 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:06:00 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 22:47:20 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505162247.20736.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 16 May 2005 2:21 pm, otsisto wrote: > It's just a step to right... :) Yes! I thought of that too! (See my response to Janet). I guess great minds really do think alike. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 16 23:46:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H3kpd2015383 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 23:46:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H3juM1014672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 21:45:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H3jrH4027659; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H3jp57027565 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D081F3C829 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:45:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42896912.4010002@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 22:46:26 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frontier House/Colonial House References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Laura Waack wrote: > And talk about using clueless people - on Frontier House the bride, on > her first day there, was shown (in her chemise) holding cans of baking > powder and soda and saying "What ARE these? Am I expected to cook with > them?" Groan. After growing up in a household where food was always prepared fresh that was pretty much my reaction to canned pie filling. OBsewing: at least when I was learning to use patterns there were pictures that explained each step. The can of pie filling just said 'use in your favorite pie shell'. Imagine a pattern with a finished picture and directions saying "Use with your favorite fabric." Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 00:28:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H4SqET015522 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H4SAiR018799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 16 May 2005 22:28:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H4S801056180; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:28:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4H4S313056060 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 22:28:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73978 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 04:27:57 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=364J4By6MPWfWLWWuZpu/A6Bhm8b8q2dYmOvc7wTYbr6ZAycjfrx+WWRfHgI1De+g+/gyr+TsdVc6lz/FX/IEtb2+Roc6YX5ie/qkZQYAswQWMOi1otQM/XQKPbfIYLqGjMwcliUokmNkKp87KnaTMDxwEIW2zfsOVBJ7PH1iNM= ; Message-ID: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.84.245] by web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 21:27:57 PDT Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:27:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes, sad isn't it? Went Sunday-hoping for teh best- got to see new "things"For your consideration..... A 7 foot(no sh*t-really-that tall) Purple & silver Lame` clad , hoop wearing drag queen "fairy" queen. A pantless man,(he was wearing a muslin lace-up front shirt,probably bought at the Faire) maybe that's way he had no pants-couldn't afford them after buying the shirt....and a purple velour Cavalier/Pimp daddy hat. A man wearing pants that looked like he was not wearing any pants....with a codpiece....flesh colored tights are just nasty on a guy.The denium utility kilt/engineer boots guys....with shaved legs. More Victorian corsets then an 1890's skivvie house. Gandalf the grey,a smattering of hobbits,"Foxy Brown" from Austin Powers. 120 yr old Italians- gals wearing 1450's EverAfter Dresses. FAR too many Jack Sparrows... (BIG SIGH....) Had to fight an over whelming urge to knock a Fairy off his "KISS" soled shoes, and onto his white feathered winged ass. Southern Ren Faire has become a joke....so sad... even the Queen was over heard to say "this is rediculous" as she made her way thru the crowd. I know these people are "proud" of their ?costume? attempts,....if they could just put that effort into real costuming..... --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > ... Enter Conan, Vulcans, klingons, > demons,vampires,goths, Zebra people,hobbits elves fairies....even Jack from Jack in the Box fast foods,in doublet & slops. > > That's not a Renaissance Faire. That's an outdoors > Sci-Fi convention. > _ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 03:57:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H7vwCa014169 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 03:57:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H7urv7038178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 01:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H7umHk085279; Tue, 17 May 2005 01:56:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H7ujWK085260 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 01:56:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.78]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4H7txY1023520 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 03:56:02 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050517005334.0271f710@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 00:54:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! In-Reply-To: <20050516225026.2468.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20050516194527.103A7394D@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Ladies, >as a mere male, I am minded to let you know that you aren't the only ones >to whom this kind of "find" happens. What would make you think that? Men just usually look for other things than we women do, and score differently at these places. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 04:41:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4H8fSPw027488 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4H8edHL040795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 02:40:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H8ebm8010389; Tue, 17 May 2005 02:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H8eZje010356 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 02:40:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4H8eUIC004820 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:40:30 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.78] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.78]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4H8eQML295808 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:40:34 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050517010809.024ee418@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 01:20:23 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] SCORE! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Three or more of anything is a collection! Oh, we're comparing sewing machine collections? New Home, bought new in about 1990. This is my workhorse. New-ish Singer, given to me recently. I don't know if it works but previous owner thought it didn't. This will become my lender machine, if it can be made to work. Deco toy machine that probably works, single thread. Covered in really neat decals. Was a gift. c.1909 Franklin treadle in blocky beige-painted cabinet, found with 'free' sign on it two blocks from my house. Came with extra bobbins, many attachments including under-braider jig, the manual, and a usable drive belt. Wilcox and Gibbs without the original treadle but with 1940s-looking motor added. Then I got one of the motorized bases the company made in the 1940s. Latest patent date 1871 on the machine, but the company is still in business, so I have 5 brand new needles (grooved shanks - nothing else works). Machine was $15 in thrift store. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 06:52:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HAqt7H018136 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 06:52:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HApxOF060837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 04:51:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HAptio085310; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:51:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H0K7dj079824 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 4469F18001AD for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:20:02 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.30) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 17 May 2005 00:20:01 -0000 Received: by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 9F04E86B10; Tue, 17 May 2005 00:20:01 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.6; A1.17; B2.12; Q2.03) Received: from [149.169.167.119] by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:20:01 -0500 X-Mailer: mail.lycos.com webmail From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:20:01 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilts and Saris X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.167.119 X-Originating-Server: ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050517002001.9F04E86B10@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4H0K7dj079824 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea wrote: > One thing to remember is the form is not the most important thing > about both of these garments. Both are rich in symbolism. I think that this is less true of saris. In India saris are worn on a daily baisis by millions of women. In terms of the fabric used, saris can vary a great deal from year to year based on the whims of fashion. Sari's *do* carry some symbolic baggage (show me a garment that doesn't), but that isn't the most important thing about them. I suggest _The Sari_ for a good description of how this looks in the modern world. > > The sari is influenced greatly by the notions of purity, an ancient > Vedic (?) Hindu (?) principle. Sort of, the actual textual prohibition is against "stiched garments", the fact that this would include cholis tends to get ignored :) In practice this seems to lend support to a rather nebulous notion that saris are somehow more womanly, more Indian, dressier and generally "better" than other kinds of garments. >The most pure sari (if I am > remembering correctly) is plain white cotton with no seams. I don't know about the no seams part, but plain white saris are only worn by widows. And although widows are supposed to be pure, most women don't aspire to be one. In Bengal a white sari with a colored border (especially red) was and is frequently worn by married women. And although widows (especially in urban areas) will often where colored sari's *plain* white saris have not become popular for non-widows. > Saris > indicate caste and regional variations. > Increasinly, this is becoming *can* indicate caste and regional variations. In the last 50 years the nivi wrap has become the most common way to wrap a sari, slowly but surely edging out other styles. -Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 06:53:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HArxQi018145 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 06:53:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HArKSl061255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 04:53:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HArJRk086364; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H1DoGF018708 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:13:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12296 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:30:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:30:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! In-Reply-To: <20050516225026.2468.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 16 May 2005, julian wilson wrote: > I dropped-in to our local Oxfam Centre [our equivalent of the US > "Goodwill" shops, maybe?] a few month's back, to collect some > "donated" garden-type wrought-iron work as the base for a charcoal > brazier, and to look for any wood vessels, earthenware, and glass > which our group might use at our "noonmeals" when "on stage" at Gorey > Castle. > ... Stories like this make me very glad you're on this list! Thanks for an entertaining tale. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 06:54:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HAs6Lr018148 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 06:54:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HArOvB061299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 04:53:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HArOAr086405; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H1iTIL040836 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:44:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1581093nzn for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:44:24 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=jigVzgBJU7QYEmUqm9KIm33OevsA9KmiqYWUnP7+mSw60yqXpvFaWfP1VTdTKdbIl6+gdZDrgoxtJhp6D2e40gMzr7afa48XfHvQN7jfLmsU5bvfdgZEsfkpKzvNI8gYPXNsJ+3z16/icC0Sm8Qz2mv2NGAsGhqETr7fSBrCmjk= Received: by 10.36.148.8 with SMTP id v8mr1972939nzd; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:44:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 18:44:24 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4H1iTIL040836 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Queens of Society X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re:Queens of Society ... > >17. La Marquise de Maintenon Oh, pretty please. Madame Mantenon. The Mistress Extrodinaire. From governess (IIIRC) to titled gentry by way of the boudoir. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 06:54:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HAsXSo018153 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 06:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HArkw2061394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 04:53:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HArjjl086618; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:53:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4H1rSou047558 for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 19:53:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1582537nzn for ; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:53:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=b0XOZL/8leJOdEU0YOUwXUDCRipQXkqTjmcg5b+VrSxs+Hn9hlKm7D7HTDJfZjtNMPt1+uOTo4WWHvGNYQeuSLa3eF5J9dN1D8kzX+fN+QYtzykp0DmrR2+ANdhGIucpPwbi4tsa/tlb7CzkBw3polSVE+V30h39yA0BOSJOx7U= Received: by 10.36.153.19 with SMTP id a19mr1566430nze; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Mon, 16 May 2005 18:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 18:53:23 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House/ travelogues Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4H1rSou047558 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Of which my favorite is Mrs Trollope (mother of the slightly more famous Anthony Trollope, Victorian novelist. Her trip thru Boston, the Appalacians, and Cleveland (where she lost the family business & consequently the family fortune) is hilarious. Not that she intended it to be hilarious, far from it. She considered it alternately instructive to the poor beknighted "Colonials" and a warning to her fellow countrymen. Her travelogue is Domestic Manners of the Americans, by Mrs Trollope. About 1830s IIRC. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House Hello, There are a number of similiar comments from visitors to the southern back country of America in the late 18th early 19th centuries. These people are often described as being scantily dressed, dirty, and shoeless. Of course many of these references come from outsiders denigrating the society so there maybe exageration represented here. Ron Carnegie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 06:56:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HAuHdS018163 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 06:56:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HAt2U7061800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 04:55:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HAt2tR087580; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:55:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-dav25.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HAKnkG067559 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 04:20:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 May 2005 03:20:44 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 141.152.152.181 by BAY10-DAV25.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:20:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [141.152.152.181] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050516.085701.4900.25995@webmail35.nyc.untd.com> <200505162246.27032.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 06:20:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 17 May 2005 06:20:43 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2005 10:20:44.0526 (UTC) FILETIME=[15C828E0:01C55ACA] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4HAuHdS018163 Status: RO And I immediately thought of Elvis! ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Viking Music? On Monday 16 May 2005 11:56 am, penhalion@juno.com wrote: [snip] > And as for what dances they did, we have even less of a clue. Although, a > number of years ago I ran across a reference that indicated a Christian > missionary to the Norse was appalled by the Norse men dancing 'hip swinging > dances' to honor the god of fertility Frey. Oooh, I never heard of that. Do you remember where you saw the reference, by chance? > What exactly were 'hip swinging > dances'? I have no idea, but the idea of big, burly Vikings doing > belly-dance is just too hilarious to ignore. On the other hand, it might have looked more like the "Time Warp" from the Rocky Horror Picture Show (the connection to Frey, the well-endowed fertility god, made me think of this). -- Cathy Raymond > "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 09:18:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HDITqA018864 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:18:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HDHHK7073240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 07:17:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HDHDVd079941; Tue, 17 May 2005 07:17:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HDHB2L079780 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 07:17:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJV5YDAVWBCQJ for (sender ); Tue, 17 May 2005 06:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7xgiz29qvbLSmOttsa96TdFbMntj5voJtg== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KS73TB9K; Tue, 17 May 2005 06:16:06 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:10:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... Message-ID: <20050517.081053.-100971371.1.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 16-17,29-30,33-37 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 13:6:625736316 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As a longtime participant in Bristol RenFaire (owned by the same company the owns Southern Faire- REC), I'm pretty sure that many of the folks you described aren't actually performing at the Faire. The Fairies, I can't vouch for because the management has decreed both them and Robin Hood to be required at the Faire. They seem to think that people enjoy seeing things that they can immediately recognize and identify with. All in all, I think Bristol does it pretty well- Robin Hood isn't THE Robin Hood and dresses in reasonably good Elizabethan. Our take on it is that Robin Hood is more of an idea or national spirit who will manifest any time when the people are oppressed. Our fairies are very subtle and kinda mysterious. They rarely speak, they often spend hours at a time partially hidden in small groves of trees where only those with sharp eyes will spot them- they do alot of mime and interaction with children.....oh, and there isn't an inch of lame on any of them, just some really cool airbrushed costumes and body paint. Were those of us who do historical characters thrilled when we were told about them?......not really, but I invite anyone on the list to come to Bristol and see for themselves. On the other hand, there are all sorts of patrons who come dressed as they please and the management really can't do anything to stop them. As long as the outfit is 'street legal', they can't refuse anyone admission. Bristol often has barbarians in leather and horn helmets, chain-mail bikinis, demons with horns and 6 foot wings, men in utilikilts, barely converted prom dresses, overweight lame and chiffon wrapped fairies, and all manner of other costuming abominations- there's nothing we can do about it. They paid for their tickets. We even had a pretty darn good Vlad the Impaler wandering around one day. Unfortunately, if you don't know what to look for, you might just assume that anyone in a costume-oid thing has an official connection with the Faire......maybe.....maybe not...... I have been forwarding many of these notes to REC management as I truly believe that they need to hear honest criticism from the public. I have no idea what the end result will be, but your voices are being heard. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 10:12:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HECkFK019227 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HEBxML078131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 08:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HEBuk0021648; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:11:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HEBqTe021530 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:11:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:11:46 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:11:36 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: SCORE X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What would make you think that? Men just usually look for other things than we women do, and score differently at these places. CarolynKayta Barrows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It did not take to long to convert my hubby to the joys of thrift shopping. He's got a pretty good eye for a bargain, even for costume bits and accessories, but I think what really keeps him going back is looking for Lego :). He found what we think is one of the original 3 sets produced by Lego a couple of weeks ago. No box but the instructions sheets were included. They had *written* intructions for putting the pieces together! Near as he can tell he is only missing 2 or 3 pieces. All for just $3 :). I've never bought a sewing machine at a thrift store, mostly because I'm pretty happy with the 4 I have :). I do like to cruise for fabric and have scored some great finds over the years, most recent was a nice piece of teal wool which will make a great viking apron dress. Unfortunately the fashion for drapes has changed and the really good brocade ones are next to impossible to find, at least around here. Old metallic belts are another item I keep an eye out for, great for girdles and collars of estate. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 10:19:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HEJARk019257 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:19:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HEIH0P078868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 08:18:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HEIF1h026904; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:18:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HEIC80026792 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJV9J4AYSP4XA for (sender ); Tue, 17 May 2005 07:18:02 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgpWlzVGRCBu/PpsVreurbpg= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KS77BX6X; Tue, 17 May 2005 07:17:36 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:11:48 -0700 Message-ID: <20050517.071710.2844.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:2:4088525246 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Viking Music? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO About a zillion years ago, a lady in our area taught a class on Norse dance. It seemed to consist of the circle and line variety. I'm sorry I can't be more specific, but I only peeked in on it, and no longer have her contact info. Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 10:57:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HEv1Mk019548 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:57:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HEs2xP082596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 08:54:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HErxxk057341; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:54:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HErm2Q057151 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:53:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp37.directcon.net [209.79.209.37] (may be forged)) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id j4HEvLg10862 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 07:57:21 -0700 Message-ID: <004301c55aee$a2085ae0$25d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:42:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Southern Ren Faire has become a joke....so sad... > even the Queen was over heard to say "this is > rediculous" as she made her way thru the crowd. No, what's ridiculous is a paid entertainer audibly dissing her audience, no matter how poorly she considers them to be dressed. If I were management, I'd fire her for that. I like historical accuracy as well as the next person, and have made promoting it my life's work, but I started out as a performer, and I'd be ashamed to have any Faire I worked represented so poorly. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 10:57:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HEvEGN019552 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:57:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HEuSAS083083 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 08:56:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HEuRDR059853; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:56:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HEuO4Q059796 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:56:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C4F401CF for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 07:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id F0B4F3983; Tue, 17 May 2005 07:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 07:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.135] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCigYSAA5Q/wEAAAAB,eeb38825e8a1f455e33daaa2da00498e Message-Id: <20050517145618.F0B4F3983@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't been to a SciFi convention for a couple of years, but when I was actively going to them, we didn't appreciate the fantasy costumes either. SciFi meant, Vulcans, Star Trek, Bab 5, and the like uniforms, and misc. aliens. Any Science fiction costume was ok, but fairies, vampires, etc were sneered at. All of that was only the cons that advertised as Scienc fiction AND fantasy. Then there is Dragon Con where ANYTHING goes. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Melody Watts wrote: From: Melody Watts Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:27:57 -0700 (PDT) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... yes, sad isn't it? Went Sunday-hoping for teh best- got to see new "things"For your consideration..... A 7 foot(no sh*t-really-that tall) Purple & silver Lame` clad , hoop wearing drag queen "fairy" queen. A pantless man,(he was wearing a muslin lace-up front shirt,probably bought at the Faire) maybe that's way he had no pants-couldn't afford them after buying the shirt....and a purple velour Cavalier/Pimp daddy hat. A man wearing pants that looked like he was not wearing any pants....with a codpiece....flesh colored tights are just nasty on a guy.The denium utility kilt/engineer boots guys....with shaved legs. More Victorian corsets then an 1890's skivvie house. Gandalf the grey,a smattering of hobbits,"Foxy Brown" from Austin Powers. 120 yr old Italians- gals wearing 1450's EverAfter Dresses. FAR too many Jack Sparrows... (BIG SIGH....) Had to fight an over whelming urge to knock a Fairy off his "KISS" soled shoes, and onto his white feathered winged ass. Southern Ren Faire has become a joke....so sad... even the Queen was over heard to say "this is rediculous" as she made her way thru the crowd. I know these people are "proud" of their ?costume? attempts,....if they could just put that effort into real costuming..... --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > ... Enter Conan, Vulcans, klingons, > demons,vampires,goths, Zebra people,hobbits elves fairies....even Jack from Jack in the Box fast foods,in doublet & slops. > > That's not a Renaissance Faire. That's an outdoors > Sci-Fi convention. > _ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 11:02:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HF21Ws019599 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:02:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HF1CIm083641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 09:01:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HF1BCf064207; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:01:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HF19f1064171 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:01:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60DC40151 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id B0D2E3945; Tue, 17 May 2005 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 08:01:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.132] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCigc0AAmkwQEAAAAB,678f7a28486643962a7d147e7affaad7 Message-Id: <20050517150108.B0D2E3945@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have instruction books for the Singer tredle, and the old New Home here. At the other house (and I must move that stuff soon) are books for the Singer 301, both sergers, the New Home MyExcell 4018, and the Kenmore. If anyone needs those let me know off list and I will make copies for you. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Wanda Pease" wrote: From: "Wanda Pease" Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:38:08 -0700 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! Whatever you do keep all the instruction books. I looked up mine and they are nearly as much to replace with originals as I paid for the machine. What I really want now is the button hole attachment. Again, that's as much as I paid for the whole thing. Wanda > > New Home model NLB, in a cabinet, with instruction book and > lots of accessories at least 40 years old (given to me by a > friend) > > Pfaff serger (fussy little monster, but beautiful stitching) > > Brother serger (a back up for the fussy little Pfaff) > > and my latest acquisition that I purchased at an auction last > month: > > An 1889 Singer tredle machine in cabinet with instruction > book, accessories and it works! > > I don't count the really old electric Singer that I haven't > been able to get to work yet, but I only paid five bucks for it > at a flea market and I still have hopes when I have time to > fiddle with it. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 11:43:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HFhipE019884 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:43:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HFgjWL088148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 09:42:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HFggaI002655; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:42:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HFgdKX002594 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:42:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.136.147]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050517154238.NYYM19200.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:42:38 -0400 Message-ID: <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:45:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Look at it this way, On this list we are pretty spoilt (for the most part) for having opportunities for dressing up in costume, be it SCA, Living History, Victorian Teas, what have you. General public does not have this chance outside of Haloween, which sadly only happens once a year. :-) I can see why ren-faires and Cons are getting the grab-bag of costumes they do, people are waiting to have the chance to play dress-up, regardless of how appropriate their costume is to the setting. That outfit just sits and collects dust otherwise. Myself, I would love to have a venue to wear some of my non-medieval costumes, I would also love to be able to make some more fantastical costumes, but I don't because there is no opportunity for me to wear them other than Haloween, and Costume Con, which is almost always waaaay to far away and too expensive for me to get to. Not much point in spending all of that time, money and effort into something that's just going to sit in a closet, so my ideas just get put on the back burner. Some folks just want to dress up because they never get to, so they do and don't see that what they are wearing is "wrong" for the situation they are in. They just want to have fun, and don't know or care that it may be spoiling others enjoyment. Just my two bits, Sheridan :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 11:54:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HFshCR019952 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:54:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HFrhdH089536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 09:53:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HFrgBI012994; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HFrbht012898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 09:53:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4HFk2mT011714 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:46:02 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428A1380.3000900@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:53:36 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > On this list we are pretty spoilt (for the most part) for having > opportunities for dressing up in costume, be it SCA, Living History, > Victorian Teas, what have you. General public does not have this chance > outside of Haloween, which sadly only happens once a year. :-) That's their own fault, though. The last time I went to a public halloween thing, I and my party were the Only Ones in costume, out of a couple hundred people. Sad, very sad. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 12:27:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HGR6ZH020107 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:27:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HGQ7kN093121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 10:26:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HGQ0Ud044039; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:26:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HGPtDd043880 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:25:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2005 16:25:48 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050517172004.015e8e88@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:24:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire In-Reply-To: <428A1380.3000900@thibault.org> References: <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:53 17/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Shane & Sheridan wrote: > >>On this list we are pretty spoilt (for the most part) for having >>opportunities for dressing up in costume, be it SCA, Living History, >>Victorian Teas, what have you. General public does not have this chance >>outside of Haloween, which sadly only happens once a year. :-) > >That's their own fault, though. The last time I went to a public >halloween thing, I and my party were the Only Ones in costume, out of a >couple hundred people. Sad, very sad. At least you get to dress up at Halloween. Here, if you are lucky, some of the children put on cheap cloaks from the supermarket, but it is no big deal at all. My only chance is if I am invited by one of the groups I make costumes for - last year one event, this year, one event to come. Most of my "authentic" outfits (machines are authentic aren't they?) have only been worn three times each in 20 years!!! (I don't belong to any group - easier to work for all, claim loyalty to none.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 12:36:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HGaLxj020180 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:36:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HGZT0f094012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 10:35:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HGYoR8052138; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:35:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HGYAav051750 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:34:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id F3C56A07E6; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:34:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.11.193.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.11.193]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C665EA063C for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:34:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <09a201c55afe$6dc66a00$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:35:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I've yet to actually ATTEND a renfaire, I have to admit I think of it as a place I could finally wear some of the Pre-Raphaelite* stuff I love to make. And I am passionate about accuracy as well! *read: a romanticized version of actual medieval styles. Fun to design and make, especially as an outlet when the accurate stuff doesn't look how I think it should look. Makes it easier to be so pickily accurate if I can go nuts ever so often! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 12:42:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HGg4ei020236 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:42:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HGeixd094627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 10:40:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HGdajU056275; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:39:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HGcMtF055075 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:38:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 77237 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 16:38:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20050517163816.77235.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.143.198] by web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:38:16 BST Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:38:16 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >Ladies, >as a mere male, I am minded to let you know that you aren't the only ones >to whom this kind of "find" happens. What would make you think that? Men just usually look for other things than we women do, and score differently at these places. COMMENT Well, I'd hazzard a guess that there are fewer men around on these Lists who settle down at a sewing-machine to make needed "cool stuff" from leathers or fabrics - that none of the ladies in their Aquaintance have either the time, and/or/the knowledge, and/or the self-confidence to try to make for them. When I was a teenager, as an example - I used to make my own racing-dinghy sails, cockpit-covers, and "over-the-booms tents" for "dayboat weekending" - because a] I couldn't afford to have them made-up for me; - and b] had access to a sail-loft, and skills teachers, and a robust sewing-machine. But, so far as I recall, for example, - I was the only chap in my entire Year of 130 boys at my School who knew his way around a sewing machine. A very few of my School Yearmates had been through Wolf Cubs and Boy Scouts, and were capable of sewing-on their own buttions, but so far as memory serves, - they were a tiny minority. Whereas the girls we dated would form their own sewing circles to make dresses for parties and dances. besides which, - they got Classes in Needlework at their Girls' Schools as a part of the normal curriculum. Amongst my Generation - [no, don't ask which one] - few males could sew, or even wanted to learn - that skill-set was still seen as a traditional part of the "female Role". So far as I know, at the moment I am the only male in our Companie who tries to make-up some of his own Kit when sewing is needed. Our membership has just reached 40 persons; and most of our Ladfies [and girls with help from Mum] seem to happily settle down to making Garb as they need it up to the limits of their skills. Reading this back, it seems "hastily-composed" - but I trust the text explains why I felt that a man being pleased to acquire 3 sewing-machines for his own use in making re-enactment "cool stuff" might seem just a little bit unusual. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends online? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 13:20:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HHKcwB020461 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:20:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HHJY4F000215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 11:19:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HHJVm4095912; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:19:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HHJQUk095833 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:19:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.78]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4HHIhXx006092 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:18:43 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050517101412.0272ef08@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 10:19:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! In-Reply-To: <20050517163816.77235.qmail@web25701.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >as a mere male, I am minded to let you know that you aren't the only ones > >to whom this kind of "find" happens. > >What would make you think that? Men just usually look for other things >than we women do, and score differently at these places. >Reading this back, it seems "hastily-composed" - but I trust the text >explains why I felt that a man being pleased to acquire 3 sewing-machines >for his own use in making re-enactment "cool stuff" might seem just a >little bit unusual. While being green with envy about your sewing machine finds, I'll try to clarify my point. Men at thrift stores are usually not looking for sewing machines, and that would explain why they don't find them. But if there were antique hand tools, the average man would spot these where I might not. But I think the men of the women of this list have been pretty well trained by now, to spot things like sewing machines. For example, when I spotted my Franklin treadle, while my gent and I was on my way someplace, his question was not about any need I had for another sewing machine but that I not take too long to look at it. He's the one who gave me my Deco toy machine, and I'm the one who gave him his current machine to replace his old one. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 13:55:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HHt49e022127 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:55:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HHsAqj004576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 11:54:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HHs8hw028812; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:54:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web42107.mail.yahoo.com (web42107.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HHs42M028676 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:54:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 65997 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 17:53:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=k6atKSRQof/Ix3LSn2bXl8QWlnserArYqkv1LhepH1aDEmprZWpkE2zhwdhnPqXsimUFun/wgkxVZRevLmMzDJ+ID51mQct2k7dEywubnE6EAxkaSfkLMA8mtj9zpHH8kPzOhIWpGXsDNQYx5io8tCLKLCqCyyy7ERFFTBxSWeo= ; Message-ID: <20050517175359.65995.qmail@web42107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.33.211.118] by web42107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 10:53:58 PDT Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 10:53:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Score! {Me, Too!!!} X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to play along on the Home Version. I have a 1990's Pfaff 6122, a 1980's Necci [ given to me in exchange for a pair of pants], a 1960's Brother and a Singer of somewhat dubious age, and lastly, a Kenmore serger from the 1990's. --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 14:13:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HIDoPI023058 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:13:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HICoGv007915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 12:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HIClCU046403; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HICeAx046224 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:12:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 89513 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 18:12:35 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=rubERJXk+BCe/z3n3LH92YywkMN9y5X8hGnivKzoiLzpODYnJ9rzHl+WtRbDgN//RlKiGJj+P5aAIlg29624zaj+OYP7vWZ+32ZHdEGoygpGqItzJvVsZbYzdL+Ed78NNIrIMp+AbuO8/cmh/N7hv1UIGRIUIg2b5E3DzAN+Gq8= ; Message-ID: <20050517181235.89511.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.84.245] by web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:12:35 PDT Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:12:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to tell about, A "well thought out way of using your costumes all year" idea. My daughters school had a youger teacher, 3 rd grade instructor, who would (after clearing it w/the Principal) dress up in a costume relating to the subject he was teaching that quarter. If they were studying, for instance "HArry POtter" book series he would arrive in Wizards robes & pointy hat, discuss the book, story line ,plot development,characters,then throw in a fun "Craft" to do ,like make Wizard hats at the end of the project.The projects got done without complaining,the books read,and the homework done. The kids ate it up! And I as a parent and costume nut I couldn't wait to see who he was this month. This idea can be transfered to daycare- reading hour at the library-nursing home visits-children's hospitals-schools-docenting,if you really want to wear your duds more then Haloween,you can and will find venues. ,.....we dressed up for my Girl Scout troops field trips sometimes to Historic houses. Just here , in my little area, we have Southern Ren Faire, Koroneberg (smaller Renfaire) End of Trail,Dickens Fest (3 day event)Victorian Feast, Celebration in the Park,ACW events allover, Drum Baracks,Victorian Market PLace,Swing Dance clubs, Maxwell De Milles list of things to do, The Lively Arts Historical Assoc. Victorian Balls,LARP, The Labrynth of Jareth..... these events cover 1500 -1940 + fantasy. I personally didn't know about these events until I went looking for them,.. With the internet info out there that no excuse not to dress ,for your favorite "hobby". I dress with my kids at Haloween anyways,I've reached the age of I don't care-I'm having fun. MAybe we should all do the Jedi mind trick on those folks" Your costume is "lovely" ..I bet you'd look stunning in a Elizabethan court dress/doublet & slops, or pehaps a wealthy merchant....." --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Shane & Sheridan wrote: > > > On this list we are pretty spoilt (for the most > part) for having > > opportunities for dressing up in costume, be it > SCA, Living History, > > Victorian Teas, what have you. General public does > not have this chance > > outside of Haloween, which sadly only happens once > a year. :-) > > That's their own fault, though. The last time I > went to a public halloween thing, I and my party were the Only Ones in costume, out of a couple hundred people. Sad, very sad. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 14:24:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HIO0Lw023579 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:24:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HINBf7009447 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 12:23:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HIN8GV055702; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HIN4J5055595 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:23:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 93425 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 18:22:59 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Vj5OHIsy8Vaer/9BUfRH3puD8Llw/sHfdGGwtkSpkYSpB93hgganNUdHsBZbs2V2ZUYedr7dnOj02+bDyEHZM7f6LysdV/Y4CACvhPo6BWtsSQJdXj43F1Pqi6ITj5Voh0BvOpGyiD0I8qgsk8qwLH0hsxlg+D7Ru2Y8RZTyhcY= ; Message-ID: <20050517182259.93423.qmail@web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.84.245] by web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:22:59 PDT Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:22:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire - Costume Depravation Syndrome (CDS) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gosh ,it's hard to believe a country as rich in history as the UK dosen't do anymore to promote it. Maybe you could whisper ideas about a grand Masque Ball, ...Fund raiser of course, to one of the museums head people. "Phantom ofthe Opera" is still running ,yes? Maybe a collective effort with the theater, do the Masqarade theme. Your Historical societies do nothing in that vein? Heck, Cahrles Dickens only visited here in the USA and we have festivals and Balls in his honor... I feel for you....costume deprivation! Melody --- Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 11:53 17/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >Shane & Sheridan wrote: > > > >>On this list we are pretty spoilt (for the most > part) for having > >>opportunities for dressing up in costume, be it > SCA, Living History, > >>Victorian Teas, what have you. General public does > not have this chance > >>outside of Haloween, which sadly only happens once > a year. :-) > > > >That's their own fault, though. The last time I > went to a public > >halloween thing, I and my party were the Only Ones > in costume, out of a > >couple hundred people. Sad, very sad. > > > At least you get to dress up at Halloween. Here, if > you are lucky, some of > the children put on cheap cloaks from the > supermarket, but it is no big > deal at all. My only chance is if I am invited by > one of the groups I make > costumes for - last year one event, this year, one > event to come. Most of > my "authentic" outfits (machines are authentic > aren't they?) have only been > worn three times each in 20 years!!! (I don't belong > to any group - easier > to work for all, claim loyalty to none.) > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 14:36:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HIaN74023769 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HIZUgA010729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 12:35:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HIZSdS065795; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:35:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HIZPSR065705 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:35:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52150 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 18:35:19 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=vbt/IZ10eadHtoLOBoN8KFrLa1lyTd/sqMziuoQFkBxDEoZnL7SxbcRFz/sOYVPI7W6gC5kbUN8LppcAhQWX+6DM8rJKLnhzSCDDzTwmd180kh0UpDE2sIL6cdxsAlfE4FUys/t7jgK9M7E3cscyFhEcOiqUJN8UXaL7b09D464= ; Message-ID: <20050517183519.52148.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.84.245] by web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:35:19 PDT Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:35:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here in the USA,the schools have cut back on Domestic Arts courses. We are too busy teaching our kids how to take test,so they can create test from the test results to test the testing.. You should be proud of the fact you can sew and pass this knowledge onto the younger guys....heck hold classes at the events on how to sew...call it "the Manly Art of Sewing"..or "Bold and Sewing Men"..get those pups hooked, point out the savings in making it yourself. You go Julian! --- julian wilson wrote: > > COMMENT > > When I was a teenager, as an example - I used to > make my own racing-dinghy sails, > > I was the only > chap in my entire Year of 130 boys at my School who > knew his way around a sewing machine. > > So far as I know, at the moment I am the only male > in our Companie who tries to make-up some of his own > Kit when sewing is needed. > > > Yours in service, > Julian Wilson, > [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, > Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis > pacem, para bellum"] > late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master > Artisan to > "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", > [the only medieval living-history Group > in "olde" Jersey] > > - __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 14:50:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HIoBYZ023853 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HImgmJ012209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 12:48:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HImeTP077220; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:48:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HImZ8e077088 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:48:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2005 18:48:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050517194255.01625b58@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:46:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire - Costume Depravation Syndrome (CDS) In-Reply-To: <20050517182259.93423.qmail@web32903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4HImZ8e077088 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:22 17/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Gosh ,it's hard to believe a country as rich in >history as the UK dosen't do anymore to promote it. > Maybe you could whisper ideas about a grand Masque >Ball, ...Fund raiser of course, to one of the museums >head people. > "Phantom ofthe Opera" is still running ,yes? Maybe a >collective effort with the theater, do the Masqarade >theme. > Your Historical societies do nothing in that vein? >Heck, Cahrles Dickens only visited here in the USA and >we have festivals and Balls in his honor... >I feel for you....costume deprivation! >Melody There is a Dickens Fair in Rochester I think, in Kent, but I don't drive, and it is one of the periods - 1840-60 - I look like a tea cosy in, being short and fat. I'm happy to go to the medieval one in the summer - I get to wear a wonderful horned headdress that a great milliner made for me, which I then covered in Ł60.00 per metre brocade - about 10" of each!! And if they need the floor sweeping, that's no problem - I have an 8 yard hem!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 14:59:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HIx41B023895 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:59:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HIw041013197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 12:58:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HIviWh084699; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:57:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HIvIcn084235 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:57:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 43494 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 18:57:13 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=e1x/5Xy244dmPgYsP141t/Txn2N4949uEiEVSWuFMDWhdDwnwuhEEkXTMjdb2MSfcEAE042T7NmavNvIHrMi4ftAg5T9w10hq/cRh3iUcMnUI1fi7zhSNPd+A0HzxHToCYEy9gLGNobAIlVvfaRucNco7WzDAsdMVDcHZYCPA7c= ; Message-ID: <20050517185713.43491.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.84.245] by web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:57:13 PDT Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I really don't have it out for Fairies,in general, I just believe a domain for everything, and everything in its appropriate domain. I like Amy Brown's Art work, and Brian Froud's "folk" I just don't like them at my Ren Faire. I even made my DD a Gothic Fairy outfit last year, BUT she was going to a Haloween Party, I personally would like to make a Copy of one of A.Brown's pictures and wear it to the Labrynth of Jareth event (a costume ball in the vein of the movie "Labrynth" if you don't know what it is)...I just can't decide which one. And ,interesting side note, my friend and 5 of her buds showed up at Devore one yr. dressed in Star Trek v.1 velour outfits,boots, tri corders, and were turned away before buying tickets.Their argument about "shore leave" didn't get them past the gate. So it hasn't always been "tacky city".You can almost track the "decline". Our friend who is in a Guild at Southern,told us the reason for the Fairies this year,is because one of the Faire organizers niece wanted to dress up as a fairie, ergo the "Fairy Guild". Maybe we should dust off the Star Trek outfits,some ones nephew might want to start an Alien Guild :~) --- Lalah wrote: > I haven't been to a SciFi convention for a couple of > years, but when I was actively going to them, we > didn't appreciate the fantasy costumes either. > SciFi meant, Vulcans, Star Trek, Bab 5, and the like > uniforms, and misc. aliens. Any Science fiction > costume was ok, but fairies, vampires, etc were > sneered at. All of that was only the cons that > advertised as Scienc fiction AND fantasy. Then > there is Dragon Con where ANYTHING goes. > > Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender > > > --- Melody Watts > wrote: > > From: Melody Watts > Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:27:57 -0700 (PDT) > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, > ..I'll get the swatter... > > yes, sad isn't it? Went Sunday-hoping for teh best- > got to see new "things"For your consideration..... > A 7 foot(no sh*t-really-that tall) Purple & silver > Lame` > clad , hoop wearing drag queen "fairy" queen. A > pantless man,(he was wearing a muslin lace-up front > shirt,probably bought at the Faire) maybe that's way > he had no pants-couldn't afford them after buying > the > shirt....and a purple velour Cavalier/Pimp daddy > hat. > A man wearing pants that looked like he was not > wearing any pants....with a codpiece....flesh > colored > tights are just nasty on a guy.The denium utility > kilt/engineer boots guys....with shaved legs. > More Victorian corsets then an 1890's skivvie house. > Gandalf the grey,a smattering of hobbits,"Foxy > Brown" > from Austin Powers. > 120 yr old Italians- gals wearing 1450's EverAfter > Dresses. FAR too many Jack Sparrows... > (BIG SIGH....) Had to fight an over whelming urge to > knock a Fairy off his "KISS" soled shoes, and onto > his > white feathered winged ass. > Southern Ren Faire has become a joke....so sad... > even the Queen was over heard to say "this is > rediculous" as she made her way thru the crowd. > I know these people are "proud" of their ?costume? > attempts,....if they could just put that effort into > > real costuming..... > > --- Audrey Bergeron-Morin > > wrote: > > > ... Enter Conan, Vulcans, klingons, > > demons,vampires,goths, Zebra people,hobbits elves > fairies....even Jack from Jack in the Box fast > foods,in doublet & slops. > > > > That's not a Renaissance Faire. That's an outdoors > > Sci-Fi convention. > > _ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/emreg > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 15:31:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HJVjrt024140 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HJUQag017160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 13:30:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HJULMf016091; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HJUHvJ015918 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:30:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so4554352wra for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Do3FojDUnCCOnE491Ae2DGFdTJ7qJlfyPo7bYb8QPrHPbni7MH8HQ8N8P/+Etvqb5IsN0VlLjDE5T2sfDhNJWntfgLPsKCzkH90bERZkJ/EvacWwWvMpsNND2sh1kgTBc4y/7STyfEAvLOx684My5fs3hjAWLhLcIqds9iYuVnE= Received: by 10.54.26.2 with SMTP id 2mr4550980wrz; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:30:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050517123041b761e2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 12:30:12 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... In-Reply-To: <20050517185713.43491.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050517185713.43491.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4HJUHvJ015918 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melody, I remember hearing about the people turned away in their Star Trek outfits at Southern. And now look, fairies and mud fights. Sigh. We had a group of Klingons come to the Northern Faire many years ago - they all looked great from the tops of their wrinkled foreheads to the spikes on their boots, including wigs,pointed teeth and weapons. One woman wanted to meet the Queen and wasn't allowed to. She argued that she was wearing a outfit she had made especially for the faire, all natural fabrics and such; all her materials were documentable to Elizabethan England. She insisted on her authenticity and got quite angry about the refusal of several people, including our guildmaster, to let her near the queen. She absolutely couldn't figure out that the faire didn't want a science fiction (FICTION) character in full Klingon makeup and teeth near the woman playing the HISTORICAL queen of England. Finally someone suggested that if she could document a Klingon visit to 16 Century England they would be happy to let her see the queen at her next visit. She and her group stormed away. Several months later at a corset making class, I heard her tell this story to a group of people, and she was still angry about it. Somehow she seems to have forgotten that her Klingon costume was inappropriate to the picture we were making; even though she had worked to make the costume in natural fabrics it wasn't an Elizabethan costume. I tried to explain the situation, but I don't think it made any difference. I repeat, her costume and makeup and the costumes and makeup of all her group were quite professional and looked just like the television program costumes, but they simply didn't fly in our world. Perhaps we should have given her an alternative argument, one that she could understand. What country in the universe would willingly put their ruler in the midst of a fully armed unit of soldiers of a foreign country? LynnD On 5/17/05, Melody Watts wrote: > And ,interesting side note, my friend and 5 of her > buds showed up at Devore one yr. dressed in Star Trek > v.1 velour outfits,boots, tri corders, and were turned > away before buying tickets.Their argument about "shore > leave" didn't get them past the gate. > So it hasn't always been "tacky city".You can almost > track the "decline". > Our friend who is in a Guild at Southern,told us the > reason for the Fairies this year,is because one of the > Faire organizers niece wanted to dress up as a fairie, > ergo the "Fairy Guild". > Maybe we should dust off the Star Trek outfits,some > ones nephew might want to start an Alien Guild :~) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 15:44:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HJiX9H024250 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:44:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HJhkYN018896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 13:43:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HJhfmb028514; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HJhW0X028340 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:43:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([65.92.204.81]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050517194326.QRAM11606.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:43:26 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c55b19$08b02a00$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com><005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <428A1380.3000900@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:45:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Shane & Sheridan wrote: > > > On this list we are pretty spoilt (for the most part) for having > > opportunities for dressing up in costume, be it SCA, Living History, > > Victorian Teas, what have you. General public does not have this chance > > outside of Haloween, which sadly only happens once a year. :-) Cynthia wrote: > That's their own fault, though. The last time I went to a public > halloween thing, I and my party were the Only Ones in costume, out of a > couple hundred people. Sad, very sad. I know what you mean there, for the last 5 years running, I have been the only person at my place of employment to dress up at all for Haloween, even after a variety of people expressed an interest. Last year I 'cheated' and wore an Elizabethan garb, instead of making something new. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 15:52:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HJqmHi024337 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:52:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HJq1Ps019837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 13:52:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HJpx7m035811; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:51:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HJps7u035616 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from webmail38.nyc.untd.com (webmail38.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.178]) by smtpout03.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJWU3AA6UUWHJ for (sender ); Tue, 17 May 2005 12:50:56 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7xgiz29qvbLS14EeeuXzxmxC6Q5zNG93TA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail38.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KS8SC2BC; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:50:14 PDT Received: from [24.14.7.158] by webmail38.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:50:13 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.7.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:50:13 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050517.125014.17071.46489@webmail38.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:4168217014 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.178|webmail38.nyc.untd.com|webmail38.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As regards Klingons and Star Trek Away Teams- we've had both at Bristol. The Kinglons often in full kilts. Sigh.....it is amusing to watch their wrinkly Klingon foreheads melt off in the heat tho.....As for the Away Team, we happen to have a guy on the Fight Cast who bears a remarkable resemblance to Captain Striker- which he is quite aware of. At one point he stalked past the Away Team while in full Elizabethans and angrily snapped into a fictional communicator "Get these guys off MY Holodeck simulation!!!". He has a great sense of humor. Bristol was also 'blessed' with being a short drive from GenCon (big gaming convention now in Indianapolis but used to be based in Milwaukee)and every year we'd get scores of D&D/LARP groups who would all visit the Faire in full kit. I used to have lots of fun lookign them over and decideing "Okay, that's the Fighter, that's the Mage, that one is probably the Thief......" It just hasn't been the same since GenCon moved away....sniff...... Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 16:11:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HKBcB2024486 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HKAhM4022182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 14:10:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HKAeRh052507; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:10:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HKAXTO052402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:10:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4HK2wmT013511 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:02:58 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428A4FB7.7050405@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 16:10:31 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com><005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <428A1380.3000900@thibault.org> <002701c55b19$08b02a00$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <002701c55b19$08b02a00$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > I know what you mean there, for the last 5 years running, I have been the > only person at my place of employment to dress up at all for Haloween, Work is a special case. Sometimes it's much to one's advantage to fly below the radar. But in private life, in venues that celebrate halloween or creativity, or whatever? It's odd. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 16:53:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HKrDmg024730 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:53:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HKq8VX026969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 14:52:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HKpxVV089474; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:52:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f5.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HKpoxD089274 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:51:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:51:45 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.210 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:51:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.210] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 06:51:45 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2005 20:51:45.0488 (UTC) FILETIME=[3CAC7D00:01C55B22] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If they are baggy, it may be more that the same dimensions will fit several >different sizes of wearer. My husband is six inches taller and fifty >pounds heavier than me, but there is only about two inches difference in >the size of our baggy braies. Only the legs are supposedly baggy and the exact measurements of them are not known due to the small pieces that actually remained. The dimensions I was talking about are the ones of the crotch pieces, which might differ in different people..... Cheers, Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 17:37:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HLbIaT025013 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:37:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HLaBxR032367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 15:36:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HLa7Qx031179; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:36:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HLa3EZ031128 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:36:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB50401E8 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 0B0A6726C; Tue, 17 May 2005 14:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 14:36:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.74] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCimPCAA56zwEAAAAB,1ddff453e7cd91680485bf3b4ec128d6 Message-Id: <20050517213603.0B0A6726C@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julian, when I was in school (back in the dark ages) girls took home ec and boys took shop. It still annoys me that they thought the boys shouldn't be able to boil water or sew on buttons and the girls couldn't be trusted with power tools. I have ten sewing machines and a nice collection of power tools (including a table saw and a heavy duty drill that a guy thought was "too much" for me to handle) that I use with equal ferver now. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- julian wilson wrote: From: julian wilson Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:38:16 +0100 (BST) To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >Ladies, >as a mere male, I am minded to let you know that you aren't the only ones >to whom this kind of "find" happens. What would make you think that? Men just usually look for other things than we women do, and score differently at these places. COMMENT Well, I'd hazzard a guess that there are fewer men around on these Lists who settle down at a sewing-machine to make needed "cool stuff" from leathers or fabrics - that none of the ladies in their Aquaintance have either the time, and/or/the knowledge, and/or the self-confidence to try to make for them. When I was a teenager, as an example - I used to make my own racing-dinghy sails, cockpit-covers, and "over-the-booms tents" for "dayboat weekending" - because a] I couldn't afford to have them made-up for me; - and b] had access to a sail-loft, and skills teachers, and a robust sewing-machine. But, so far as I recall, for example, - I was the only chap in my entire Year of 130 boys at my School who knew his way around a sewing machine. A very few of my School Yearmates had been through Wolf Cubs and Boy Scouts, and were capable of sewing-on their own buttions, but so far as memory serves, - they were a tiny minority. Whereas the girls we dated would form their own sewing circles to make dresses for parties and dances. besides which, - they got Classes in Needlework at their Girls' Schools as a part of the normal curriculum. Amongst my Generation - [no, don't ask which one] - few males could sew, or even wanted to learn - that skill-set was still seen as a traditional part of the "female Role". So far as I know, at the moment I am the only male in our Companie who tries to make-up some of his own Kit when sewing is needed. Our membership has just reached 40 persons; and most of our Ladfies [and girls with help from Mum] seem to happily settle down to making Garb as they need it up to the limits of their skills. Reading this back, it seems "hastily-composed" - but I trust the text explains why I felt that a man being pleased to acquire 3 sewing-machines for his own use in making re-enactment "cool stuff" might seem just a little bit unusual. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends online? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 17:50:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HLoqkY025113 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HLoAPA033708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 15:50:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HLo5nG044195; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:50:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HLnwPK043989 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0663.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.152]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FBC4319148 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 23:49:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <428A66FE.4020805@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:49:50 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 19th cenrury childs corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have a question. At what age did girls start to wear corsets in the 19th century? Did they wear the same corsets as adults? I started to wonder after I saw a child corset on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20291&item=8305868033&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Greetings, Deredere _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:00:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HM04q9025158 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:00:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HLwwra034753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 15:58:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HLwteD052519; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HI4QgV038694 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so4492923wra for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:04:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Jki/GOI+FLctzkVqZlkWVke65oVarcZLSXO9feeJjjpXPdwfjgCtqAYxYjH/KYFgtR/oM1neb+fDN8895YDiHzkqvC2XV2mYC8MY8K5l8U/Dd+yilwbvhnEJP2R/u8CIMGcUJVvjotQaySBveGcY1O13u+y2F28AS6fGuMCAR8g= Received: by 10.54.23.51 with SMTP id 51mr4513910wrw; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 11:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050517110425430b12@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 11:04:10 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... In-Reply-To: <09a201c55afe$6dc66a00$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <09a201c55afe$6dc66a00$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4HI4QgV038694 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm no longer connected to any ren faires (so this is a personal comment, not from a faire organization - and not directed to any one person), but if you've all followed the conversation, the ren faire isn't the place to wear a pre-Raphaelite dress - or the Klingon, fairy, medieval or Wicked Witch of the West outfits that people wear to the fairs. To those people working at the faires trying to bring authenticity to it, it's frustrating to spent $400 on a dress that would look right in QEWU and be lumped into the same picture as Snow White in the minds of visitors who don't know that Snow White is a visitor. I started a tirade on REC and deleted it; this is not the venue. However, when someone from a SciFi venue says that Fantasy costumes are sneered at, it's the same thing. Dressing up is a privelege not a right, and one should try to dress appropriately unless it's Halloween and anything goes. I applaud the willingness to wear a costume and try to join in the fun - I really do. But it's still frustrating to really work hard on making the appropriate picture and have someone in screaming pink satin costume, or even a very nice 15 C Venetian dress, plunk themselves down in the middle of the Elizabethan nobles and skew our picture. The Venetian dress, as nice as it may be, is as bad to the picture as the pink dress. As nice as my Elizabethan court dress is, I would never wear it to the Dickens Fair, or a SciFi convention or a Fantasy convention; it's not appropriate. End of rant, off the soap box. Sorry. LynnD On 5/17/05, E House wrote: > While I've yet to actually ATTEND a renfaire, I have to admit I think of it > as a place I could finally wear some of the Pre-Raphaelite* stuff I love to > make. And I am passionate about accuracy as well! > > *read: a romanticized version of actual medieval styles. Fun to design and > make, especially as an outlet when the accurate stuff doesn't look how I > think it should look. Makes it easier to be so pickily accurate if I can go > nuts ever so often! > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:00:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HM0DQ0025163 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HLxZlW034836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 15:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HLxXRw053148; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:59:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HI76In041079 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 12:07:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gmcdavid@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.205.149 ([204.127.205.149]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005051718065901600chsmqe>; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:07:00 +0000 Received: from [204.73.55.90] by 204.127.205.149; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:06:56 +0000 From: gmcdavid@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:06:56 +0000 Message-Id: <051720051806.26825.428A32C00008AEA0000068C922007589420B07900E0B0C0309@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z21jZGF2aWRAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > But if there > were antique hand tools, the average man would spot these where I might > not. But I think the men of the women of this list have been pretty well > trained by now, to spot things like sewing machines. I subscribe to another list, for collectors and users of old woodworking hand tools. The members (mostly male) report frequently on their finds at flea markets, garage sales, etc. The messages read very much like those about old sewing machines here. Glenn McDavid gmcdavid@winternet.com gmcdavid@comcast.net http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:02:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HM2pec025185 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:02:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HM29nO035240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:02:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HM23x3055349; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HJG7aP001999 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 12305 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 19:16:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20050517191601.12303.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.145.32] by web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:16:01 BST Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 20:16:01 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melody Watts wrote: SNIP You should ......SNIP...... pass this knowledge onto the younger guys....heck hold classes at the events on how to sew...call it "the Manly Art of Sewing"..or "Bold and Sewing Men"..get those pups hooked, point out the savings in making it yourself. You go Julian! COMMENT Ah, Melody, - if I only had the time..... I already teach mediaeval fighting techniques according to Talhoffer, Leichtenhauer, Silver, and Fiori del Liberi, and choreograph our fight-students' "combats" at our events; and have just accepted two young but very enthusiastic girls as my Apprentices in Heraldic Art. That's as much "teaching load" as I can handle right now, but the suggestion and sentiments are most welcome Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends online? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:03:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HM3a6b025189 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:03:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HM2qGg035323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HM2mNm056065; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HJNfYx009815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 13:23:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4HJG3mT012866 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:16:04 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428A44B8.5010200@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 15:23:36 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire References: <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <5.1.0.14.2.20050517172004.015e8e88@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050517172004.015e8e88@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > At least you get to dress up at Halloween. Can you not make up your own holiday, or have a block party with costumes or something? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:04:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HM4EE1025193 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HM3YFV035450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:03:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HM3Xok056877; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net (smtp5.suscom.net [64.78.83.238]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HLvhR2051313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:57:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E78F510310 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:57:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp5.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 07524-01-75 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EA386510969 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004301c55b1d$a632e660$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517183519.52148.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 16:18:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > You should be proud of the fact you can sew and pass > this knowledge onto the younger guys....heck hold > classes at the events on how to sew...call it "the > Manly Art of Sewing"..or "Bold and Sewing Men"..get > those pups hooked, point out the savings in making it > yourself. Heck, just tell 'em it's a "power fabric joining tool". Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:06:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HM6tJ3025208 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HM6D9g035698 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:06:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HM6CGj059315; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:06:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HM67AH059238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4HLwVmT014753 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:58:31 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428A6ACD.60708@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:06:05 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <09a201c55afe$6dc66a00$0400a8c0@compaqub> <8296995c050517110425430b12@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8296995c050517110425430b12@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > or even a very nice 15 C Venetian dress, > plunk themselves down in the middle of the Elizabethan nobles and skew > our picture. Surely it can't be any worse than a patron in jeans and a T-shirt? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "picture" here. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:09:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HM9BmM025220 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HM8TPa036082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:08:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HM8QwA061539; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:08:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HM8MId061371 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:08:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 May 2005 15:08:16 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:08:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517213603.0B0A6726C@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:08:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2005 22:08:16.0937 (UTC) FILETIME=[ED640190:01C55B2C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, that would annoy me too! At my school, both girls and boys did sewing and cooking. There was no "shop" class. A shame, really. I saw some of the projects they had them do a few years before, it looked like it was a lot of fun! Maybe I was better off in sewing class, though. I can pick up any paper or fabric related craft in minutes (sewing, origami, embroidery, knitting, weaving, etc. etc.) but, to this day, I can not use a hammer right. Nails always go in crooked, whatever I do, no matter how much coaching I've gotten from my dad and boyfriend, and no matter if it's the first or the 20th nail... Very frustrating for me not to be able to use a tool properly. Maybe it's related in some way to the fact that I can't throw right either ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lalah" > Julian, when I was in school (back in the dark ages) girls took home ec > and boys took shop. It still annoys me that they thought the boys > shouldn't be able to boil water or sew on buttons and the girls couldn't > be trusted with power tools. I have ten sewing machines and a nice > collection of power tools (including a table saw and a heavy duty drill > that a guy thought was "too much" for me to handle) that I use with equal > ferver now. > > Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:28:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HMSFSx025328 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:28:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HMRJUW038238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:27:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HMRGFY078152; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HMRCid078072 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOEF4WBFEO8Y64Y3@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:27:07 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOEF4X5OTM90OX0B@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:27:08 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:28:13 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire In-reply-to: <428A44B8.5010200@thibault.org> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <428A6FFD.9030302@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <5.1.0.14.2.20050517172004.015e8e88@127.0.0.1> <428A44B8.5010200@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Suzi Clarke wrote: > >> At least you get to dress up at Halloween. > > > Can you not make up your own holiday, or have a block party with > costumes or something? > Quite-- until fairly recently (when I moved to a smaller house), I had theme/fancy dress parties on a fairly regular basis. Other people I know still do. There was a B-Grade Horror party last weekend. One of the cleverest (thrown by some friends) was the "20th Century Re-Creation Society Ball". -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:33:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HMXofa025351 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HMX0ew038703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HMWuJN083240; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:32:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HMWoiB083071 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:32:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2005 22:32:44 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050517232812.014da658@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:30:40 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire In-Reply-To: <428A44B8.5010200@thibault.org> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050517172004.015e8e88@127.0.0.1> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <5.1.0.14.2.20050517172004.015e8e88@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:23 17/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: > >>At least you get to dress up at Halloween. > >Can you not make up your own holiday, or have a block party with costumes >or something? My neighbours did not even offer us a cup of tea, or a warm room to sit in one year when our electricity went off for 23 hours due to a cable fault on Christmas Day. I don't think I will be holding parties with them somehow!! Maybe next year's Twelfth Night party - who knows? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 18:43:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HMhitX025398 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:43:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HMh57l039797 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 16:43:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HMh3JJ091916; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:43:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HMgxJX091827 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:43:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2inik52.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.121.80.162] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DYAmA-00023V-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:42:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200505172158.j4HLwMhG051994@net.indra.com> References: <200505172158.j4HLwMhG051994@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:42:53 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:Score! now:Serger reviews needed X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi My loyal 2nd hand serger is dying. JoAnns is having a sale on a White serger this week. Anyone out there have any comments on White sergers? Are they fairly dependable? I only put moderate use on one... Thanks Carol, who has lots o boat anchors er sewing machines and yet the machine to die is the lone serger--go figger. Just when it is needed for curtains... -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 19:03:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HN3DiU025493 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HN2Bgu041618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 17:02:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HN29KZ007574; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:02:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HN24ba007435 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:02:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so4686341wra for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:01:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=AEiEiPI+GNM16UGA1JZKQJclfyoXN/7DXnRjsmQqm3WiwaAfHQxQvjwPyGDMJ5Dc64iOxUXnDL3BUHsF/Gqxpr7PQLfpTCNtC3ZXVpTiwGSL3T7+GHPdgRX0Ex/C6NkzIf5F/1LJhtISrh7MzJ+K8bMash2vTmiFkMs1gjg8Ht0= Received: by 10.54.50.46 with SMTP id x46mr2924635wrx; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050517160120151b47@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 16:01:58 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... In-Reply-To: <428A6ACD.60708@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <09a201c55afe$6dc66a00$0400a8c0@compaqub> <8296995c050517110425430b12@mail.gmail.com> <428A6ACD.60708@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4HN24ba007435 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I certainly realize that the picture we try to produce is always elusive. However, what we'd like is that if a visitor is daydreaming and suddenly focuses at something, he'll think he's just stepped into a period painting. The eye tends to accept and block out the visitors in jeans and t-shirts, but historical clothing pops out, so if it's the wrong period or Snow White, the brain can't block it out. That's when the other visitors say that the accuracy of the costuming is bad - they see that 15 C Venetian as a bad version of and Elizabethan. I said it poorly before, but that's what I meant. And yes, in this case, it IS worse than the patron in jeans/t-shirt. LynnD On 5/17/05, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Lynn Downward wrote: > > > or even a very nice 15 C Venetian dress, > > plunk themselves down in the middle of the Elizabethan nobles and skew > > our picture. > > Surely it can't be any worse than a patron in jeans and a T-shirt? > Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "picture" here. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to > take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 19:07:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HN75cc025518 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:07:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HN6QpZ041933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 17:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HN6FAZ010459; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:06:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.179]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4HN5kec010041 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:06:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 29626 invoked by uid 60001); 17 May 2005 23:05:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20050517230539.29620.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.139.145] by web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 00:05:38 BST Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 00:05:38 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lalah wrote: Julian, when I was in school (back in the dark ages) girls took home ec and boys took shop. It still annoys me that they thought the boys shouldn't be able to boil water or sew on buttons and the girls couldn't be trusted with power tools. I have ten sewing machines and a nice collection of power tools (including a table saw and a heavy duty drill that a guy thought was "too much" for me to handle) that I use with equal ferver now. COMMENT Lalah, over our side of the pond, there were areas of the UK where the most of the formal educational system still was - in my day - gender-oriented learning just as you describe. Until the various Labour and Socialist politicians ruined it, the UK Educational System was not only very good, but also very conservative, very slow-to-change. This is not surprising, since by then it was being run by administrators, teachers, and politicians whose formative years had been anywhere from about 1890 to 1925, and had brought those very-traditional "patriarchal" attitudes with them on gaining high-level educational-decision-making posts. But there were considerable groups of exceptions - 'off the top of my head' - the WW2 children of WW2 women factory- and shipyard- workers, of ex-Service parents, especially where the mothers were ex-WRNS, -WAAF's.; -WAAC's, Womens Land Army, WVS, &c ; plus those children who joined the Boy Scouts, the Girl Guides, the Boys' Brigade and the GLB - all of those kids had the opportunity to learn self-reliance outside the old gender-oriented pre-War sterotypes; - and many of them grabbed those opportunities with both hands, encouraged by parents whose own war experiences had "broadened their mental horizons" about "gender-oriented" learning. For example, 10's of thousands of British girls and women learned to drive and to maintain motor vehicles during their WW2 'war-work' But although their numbers were much greater than they would have been pre-1939, - they were still exceptions to the general, 'gender-oriented-learning' rules which obtained for the children of most of UK society between 1945 and about 1960. However, we are getting a long-way from the original thread, rather tenuously skirting a connection with costume and historical garb, at that - so perhaps we ought to button-up this discussion, which is tending to cloak the List's avowed main focus, - before we needle the Moderator[s]? Gods, - did I really write that last para.? That's worthy of Callahan's Bar on Punday Night. Regards, Julian Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - want a free & easy way to contact your friends online? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 19:26:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HNQ4UN025642 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:26:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HNPGxB043722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 17:25:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNPAJm024951; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:25:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNP3xA024767 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.19e.33b1551e (48552) for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:24:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <19e.33b1551e.2fbbd746@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:24:54 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 19th cenrury childs corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Offhand, (ie without checking), the visual history of corsets has repros of victorian adverts adverts that list childrens corsets sized for 6-8 months. (Possibly even younger, although would need to check that.) The very early ones (in age not date) were usually more about posture and making the child stand up straight (and were worn by boys as well as girls). The ads in the book show that boys stayes continued roughly straight, while girls gradually got more waist shaping (allowing the tight lacing as adults - bones still soft). The book also goes into details of the consequences of continual tight lacing, and I have to say, yuck!!! Debs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 19:40:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HNe314025698 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:40:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HNdKjd045303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 17:39:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNdIC4035578; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f26.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNdFQY035412 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:39:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 May 2005 16:39:09 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.189 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 23:39:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.189] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505141010.j4EAAOOF075950@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:39:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 May 2005 23:39:09.0596 (UTC) FILETIME=[9F6DBDC0:01C55B39] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 13 May 2005 2:13 pm, C M wrote: >I made a pair of trousers following the remains detailed in the first >Haithabu publication on textiles (Textilfunde aus dem Hafen von >Haithabu, Hägg, 1984) and it was quite easy to see how closely they >follow the “original” pattern of the pants found in Thorsberg… Yes, that was the item I was referring to when I mentioned that the remains were very small scraps. I’m glad it works for you, and considering that it’s all that we have, I certainly am in no position to tell you that the interpretation you are following is wrong – I will say that it was not convincing to me the last time I compared the information on the scraps. Now, please don’t take this the wrong way – I’m not intending on making an attack here, but to be honest, even the Damendorf trousers aren’t –that- similar to the Thorsbjorg, which to me suggests that people making the clothes for those centuries weren’t working from -A- set of patterns, but rather (probably) a set of concepts. So, to me, saying that some of the Haithabu/Hedeby scraps are similar to the Thorbjerg trousers, therefore the Thorsbjerg trousers must be the pattern for all Scandinavian trousers for a thousand year period just seems a bit iffy. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 19:50:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HNoWb7025728 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:50:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HNnlZC046239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 17:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNnhSd042971; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:49:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNncrp042905 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOEI12CSMO90OWC0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:49:32 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOEI125WXM90OPBL@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:49:32 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:50:38 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: 19th cenrury childs corset In-reply-to: <19e.33b1551e.2fbbd746@aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <428A834E.3080009@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <19e.33b1551e.2fbbd746@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Debloughcostumes@aol.com wrote: >The ads in the book show that boys stayes continued roughly straight, while >girls gradually got more waist shaping (allowing the tight lacing as adults - >bones still soft). > That's not entirely true-- most adult women never went for serious tight-lacing. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 19:52:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HNq3xi025731 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HNpFKY046347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 17:51:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNpEpg044180; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:51:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (defout.telus.net [199.185.220.240]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNpBAu044054 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:51:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edieann@telus.net) Received: from moms ([142.173.89.74]) by priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20050517235105.RYBG15963.priv-edtnes46.telusplanet.net@moms> for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:51:05 -0600 Message-ID: <000701c55b3c$4eb86580$6600a8c0@bc.hsia.telus.net> From: "Edith Reardon" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517230539.29620.qmail@web25707.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 16:58:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have 3 sewing machines and 3 sets of dishes these 2 items seem to bug my husband terribly. He tried to get his mother on his side about the dishes but she just showed him her 3 sets. I hate having to wait till father's day to get a good deal on my power tools and why aren't they ever for sale on mother's day. I need another kitchen gadget like a hole in the head. My children keep trying to get one of my machines but I buy them used ones instead. Brin Kendall ----- Original Message ----- From: "julian wilson" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE Lalah wrote: Julian, when I was in school (back in the dark ages) girls took home ec and boys took shop. It still annoys me that they thought the boys shouldn't be able to boil water or sew on buttons and the girls couldn't be trusted with power tools. I have ten sewing machines and a nice collection of power tools (including a table saw and a heavy duty drill that a guy thought was "too much" for me to handle) that I use with equal ferver now. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 19:55:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4HNtiHx025756 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:55:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4HNt30D046625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 17:55:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNsw1K046993; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:54:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4HNstwa046933 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOEI7JZHUO8WWBA8@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:54:46 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOEI7L41U890OROG@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:54:48 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:55:53 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th cenrury childs corset In-reply-to: <428A66FE.4020805@kabelfoon.nl> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <428A8489.2040701@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <428A66FE.4020805@kabelfoon.nl> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > I have a question. > At what age did girls start to wear corsets in the 19th century? > Did they wear the same corsets as adults? > > I started to wonder after I saw a child corset on ebay > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20291&item=8305868033&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > I don't think this is for a "child" as such-- I think it was probably made for a very small teenage girl or young woman. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 20:03:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I035GQ025808 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:03:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I01h0P047059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 18:01:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I01eaj052250; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:01:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I01bXY052217 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:01:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BB83FD29 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id B5AE5725F; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:01:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.136] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCioXeAAFcvAEAAAAB,6538ceafc3a0dbf6447b99b64832bd85 Message-Id: <20050518000134.B5AE5725F@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It just takes practice. And even now, after many, many projects, I can still slip and smack my thumb (did it last week - not fun). The greatest invention of modern man has been the electric screw driver though! Ok, this is a costume list not a woodworking list, but sometimes you need a tool or two for costumes. Hard to make pattens without a hammer and tacks. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" wrote: From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:08:17 -0400 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! Yeah, that would annoy me too! At my school, both girls and boys did sewing and cooking. There was no "shop" class. A shame, really. I saw some of the projects they had them do a few years before, it looked like it was a lot of fun! Maybe I was better off in sewing class, though. I can pick up any paper or fabric related craft in minutes (sewing, origami, embroidery, knitting, weaving, etc. etc.) but, to this day, I can not use a hammer right. Nails always go in crooked, whatever I do, no matter how much coaching I've gotten from my dad and boyfriend, and no matter if it's the first or the 20th nail... Very frustrating for me not to be able to use a tool properly. Maybe it's related in some way to the fact that I can't throw right either ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lalah" > Julian, when I was in school (back in the dark ages) girls took home ec > and boys took shop. It still annoys me that they thought the boys > shouldn't be able to boil water or sew on buttons and the girls couldn't > be trusted with power tools. I have ten sewing machines and a nice > collection of power tools (including a table saw and a heavy duty drill > that a guy thought was "too much" for me to handle) that I use with equal > ferver now. > > Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 20:05:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I05ioF025821 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:05:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I04dr4047263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 18:04:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I04afh054313; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I04XwC054208 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:04:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so991500wri for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:04:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=q6dZJ+An7UjsB0O9tproPMVOuM37TJeSJRrBkyaJ/1fjYk4BZJZmSv+jgCga4zSKxXS0kSUCSJKKRtmPlwwOfAe4DNFlAiqstc+XT9OCEYqJAdob9QaNy9dziRxAP8UgIDExtzd1EJ6BAY50OX1J3WzFK44nwvHelsuQiNhvmi4= Received: by 10.54.34.10 with SMTP id h10mr4667580wrh; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.21.32 with HTTP; Tue, 17 May 2005 17:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 19:04:27 -0500 From: Onaree Berard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <004301c55b1d$a632e660$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050517183519.52148.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004301c55b1d$a632e660$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4I04XwC054208 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: another SCORE! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Or "Textile Engineering" Onaree On 5/17/05, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > Heck, just tell 'em it's a "power fabric joining tool". > > Dianne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 21:01:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I11DhD026010 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 21:01:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I10OOO053238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 19:00:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I10L92096669; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I10Gs1096614 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 19:00:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from MeganLaptop (unknown [24.3.58.127]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD57B15CA3 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 18:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:00:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcVa8VRtkwbJuiUwQWmFYMy/y9JQJwAU2csA In-Reply-To: <20050517150108.B0D2E3945@sitemail.everyone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20050518010015.DD57B15CA3@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lalah, I need a copy of the New Home instruction book (for the treadle) for a friend who I just gave my New Home treadle to. Your email address did not come up on this email so email me. Thanks, -Megan Megan at benchite dot com -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lalah Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! I have instruction books for the Singer tredle, and the old New Home here. At the other house (and I must move that stuff soon) are books for the Singer 301, both sergers, the New Home MyExcell 4018, and the Kenmore. If anyone needs those let me know off list and I will make copies for you. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Wanda Pease" wrote: From: "Wanda Pease" Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:38:08 -0700 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! Whatever you do keep all the instruction books. I looked up mine and they are nearly as much to replace with originals as I paid for the machine. What I really want now is the button hole attachment. Again, that's as much as I paid for the whole thing. Wanda > > New Home model NLB, in a cabinet, with instruction book and > lots of accessories at least 40 years old (given to me by a > friend) > > Pfaff serger (fussy little monster, but beautiful stitching) > > Brother serger (a back up for the fussy little Pfaff) > > and my latest acquisition that I purchased at an auction last > month: > > An 1889 Singer tredle machine in cabinet with instruction > book, accessories and it works! > > I don't count the really old electric Singer that I haven't > been able to get to work yet, but I only paid five bucks for it > at a flea market and I still have hopes when I have time to > fiddle with it. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 22:25:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I2PJeK027537 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:25:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I2OYcr061154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 20:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I2OW31056720; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:24:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm29.prodigy.net (ylpvm29-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I2OTfF056662 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:24:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm29.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4I2ONIC006601 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:24:23 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.78] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.78]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4I2OKKF150622 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:24:27 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050517184909.03323b38@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:50:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... In-Reply-To: <8296995c050517160120151b47@mail.gmail.com> References: <428A6ACD.60708@thibault.org> <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005701c55af7$6818b9c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <09a201c55afe$6dc66a00$0400a8c0@compaqub> <8296995c050517110425430b12@mail.gmail.com> <428A6ACD.60708@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I certainly realize that the picture we try to produce is always >elusive. However, what we'd like is that if a visitor is daydreaming >and suddenly focuses at something, he'll think he's just stepped into >a period painting. The eye tends to accept and block out the visitors >in jeans and t-shirts, but historical clothing pops out, so if it's >the wrong period or Snow White, the brain can't block it out. That's >when the other visitors say that the accuracy of the costuming is bad >- they see that 15 C Venetian as a bad version of and Elizabethan. I >said it poorly before, but that's what I meant. And yes, in this case, >it IS worse than the patron in jeans/t-shirt. I guess I'm just better able to separate one reality from another. I actually look forward to seeing the better wrong costumes at Ren. Faire. But then, I do fiber art stuff and science fiction/fantasy conventions too. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 22:25:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I2PV4G027549 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I2OYQR061153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 20:24:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I2OVo1056699; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:24:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I2OSGf056648 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 20:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4I2ORPJ022276 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:24:28 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.78] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.78]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4I2OKKD150622 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:24:27 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050517184555.03329880@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:47:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th cenrury childs corset In-Reply-To: <428A8489.2040701@paradise.net.nz> References: <428A66FE.4020805@kabelfoon.nl> <428A66FE.4020805@kabelfoon.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I started to wonder after I saw a child corset on ebay >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20291&item=8305868033&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW >> > >I don't think this is for a "child" as such-- I think it was probably made >for a very small teenage girl or young woman. I agree. Contemporary adverts for children's corsets show items much more cylindrical than the one you found on e-bay, because actual kids are built that way. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 23:08:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I38E4H028541 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 23:08:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I36bmx065406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 21:06:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I36YgA086067; Tue, 17 May 2005 21:06:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I36LFf085843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 21:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I4OxSP011680 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 00:24:59 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th cenrury childs corset Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:06:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <428A66FE.4020805@kabelfoon.nl> <4.3.1.2.20050517184555.03329880@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050517184555.03329880@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505172306.14647.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 17 May 2005 9:47 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>I started to wonder after I saw a child corset on ebay > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20291&item=8305868 > >>033&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > > > >I don't think this is for a "child" as such-- I think it was probably made > >for a very small teenage girl or young woman. > > I agree. Contemporary adverts for children's corsets show items much more > cylindrical than the one you found on e-bay, because actual kids are built > that way. I've looked at a number of descriptions of Victorian items on Ebay, and I've found that vendors vary greatly in their degree of knowledge about what they're selling. As a result, a lot of vintage items are mischaracterized. I suspect that this vendor is presuming that the corset is for a child simply because the measurements are so small. To give another example of the same type of error, I've seen some of the 1870's and 1880's small bonnets advertised on Ebay as "doll's bonnets" or "child's bonnets" because the seller didn't realize that there was a fashion for small hats that were perched on the head and not intended to cover all or even most of it..... -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 17 23:35:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I3ZVBL028625 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 23:35:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I3YhYv067912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 21:34:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I3Yf96004071; Tue, 17 May 2005 21:34:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I3YcMw004035 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 21:34:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-78.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.78]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4I3XrXx010264 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 23:33:54 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050517203204.0274ec30@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 20:34:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 19th cenrury childs corset In-Reply-To: <200505172306.14647.cathy@thyrsus.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050517184555.03329880@mail.frys.com> <428A66FE.4020805@kabelfoon.nl> <4.3.1.2.20050517184555.03329880@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I suspect that this vendor is presuming that the corset is for a child simply >because the measurements are so small. To give another example of the same >type of error, I've seen some of the 1870's and 1880's small bonnets >advertised on Ebay as "doll's bonnets" or "child's bonnets" because the >seller didn't realize that there was a fashion for small hats that were >perched on the head and not intended to cover all or even most of it..... I've seen those 19-teens crochet nightgown tops/yokes called everything from collars to bras. Yes, not everyone knows what they're selling. Sometimes this means a bargain, and sometimes it means an unreasonably high price... CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 00:47:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4I4lsID028882 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 00:47:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4I4kuNI073283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 17 May 2005 22:46:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I4kqdX050732; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4I4kmwo050683 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 22:46:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 265533C17B for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 23:46:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E2A67C459 for ; Tue, 17 May 2005 23:46:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 23:47:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050517.125014.17071.46489@webmail38.nyc.untd.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you mean Jonathan Riker from TNG or is there a Captain Striker that is in one of the other STs? De -----Original Message----- ...As for the Away Team, we happen to have a guy on the Fight Cast who bears a remarkable resemblance to Captain Striker- which he is quite aware of. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 08:10:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ICA74T031878 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 08:10:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IC8r3o020537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 06:08:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IC8mDX011120; Wed, 18 May 2005 06:08:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IC8ikV010987 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 06:08:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IGO000I6PRW1M@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 08:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:08:46 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE!-off topic In-reply-to: <20050517213603.0B0A6726C@sitemail.everyone.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <428B304E.1050509@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <20050517213603.0B0A6726C@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I LOVE my husband's cordless power drill almost as much as I love my sewing machings! :) Lalah wrote: > (including a table saw and a heavy duty drill that a guy thought was "too much" for me to handle) that I use with equal ferver now. > >Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 08:33:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ICXTjE032051 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 08:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4ICWd7x022226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 06:32:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ICWc5A026155; Wed, 18 May 2005 06:32:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4ICWXt5026043 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 06:32:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBJYPPWA7DWZ4A for (sender ); Wed, 18 May 2005 05:31:48 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7x+0ZQA+iTy6JeVYonc2hOw4oUUq9Ef3eQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KTAKMMMY; Wed, 18 May 2005 05:31:05 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 07:23:17 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... Message-ID: <20050518.072318.-101178259.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-29 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 9:4:2033248376 X-MAIL-INFO: 3b6dd4edd440c42140c43041c430adf9e48da95561b18d31f18561a4317999c931941dd06d806d544530f4c46d41 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hehehehehe.......guess I just blew my Sci-Fi geek cover.....Yep, that would be Riker not Striker....have a friend who's into SF named Striker and had a blonde moment..... Karen Seamstrix On Tue, 17 May 2005 23:47:04 -0500 "otsisto" writes: > Do you mean Jonathan Riker from TNG or is there a Captain Striker > that is in > one of the other STs? > > De > > -----Original Message----- > ...As for the Away Team, we happen to have a guy on the Fight Cast > who bears > a remarkable resemblance to Captain Striker- which he is quite aware > of. > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 10:01:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IE11Dv032626 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:01:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IDxfjp030597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 07:59:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IDxatN087345; Wed, 18 May 2005 07:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IDxWF7087308 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 07:59:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CD13FEE6 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 06:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 8330A726C; Wed, 18 May 2005 06:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 06:59:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCi0pEAAZ+iQEAAAAB,5ed6ff730c5895e349f65eae5aa975fc Message-Id: <20050518135932.8330A726C@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I needed to clarify this on the list. The New Home isn't THAT old. It is electric. The Singer is a treadle. Sorry for not being clear. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Megan M." wrote: From: "Megan M." Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 21:00:14 -0400 To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! Lalah, I need a copy of the New Home instruction book (for the treadle) for a friend who I just gave my New Home treadle to. Your email address did not come up on this email so email me. Thanks, -Megan Megan at benchite dot com -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lalah Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 11:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! I have instruction books for the Singer tredle, and the old New Home here. At the other house (and I must move that stuff soon) are books for the Singer 301, both sergers, the New Home MyExcell 4018, and the Kenmore. If anyone needs those let me know off list and I will make copies for you. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Wanda Pease" wrote: From: "Wanda Pease" Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:38:08 -0700 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] SCORE! Whatever you do keep all the instruction books. I looked up mine and they are nearly as much to replace with originals as I paid for the machine. What I really want now is the button hole attachment. Again, that's as much as I paid for the whole thing. Wanda > > New Home model NLB, in a cabinet, with instruction book and > lots of accessories at least 40 years old (given to me by a > friend) > > Pfaff serger (fussy little monster, but beautiful stitching) > > Brother serger (a back up for the fussy little Pfaff) > > and my latest acquisition that I purchased at an auction last > month: > > An 1889 Singer tredle machine in cabinet with instruction > book, accessories and it works! > > I don't count the really old electric Singer that I haven't > been able to get to work yet, but I only paid five bucks for it > at a flea market and I still have hopes when I have time to > fiddle with it. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 12:40:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IGemwK001261 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 12:40:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IGdkG3050009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 10:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IGdMoO028885; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:39:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4IGd9Mn028590 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 2617 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2005 16:39:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20050518163901.2615.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.144.11] by web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:39:01 BST Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:39:01 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] another SCORE! Tech/dating-info solicited X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Listers, since getting into your sewing-machine thread, I have been minded to look-up the "old" hand-operated Singer I acquired from the Oxfam Shop - and discovered that it's a Model 15K dating from the 1950's and made in Glasgow. Thanks to webpage and website links noted during my research, I have been able to download a copy of the Users' Manual. Now to have it serviced, and look for an appropriate table and/or travelling case. The Bernina 801 Electronic came "complete with *everything* ", too, - [lots of accessories whose uses I have even begun to explore as yet]; - though I have been unable to discover when the Model was marketed, - and it would be nice to know from what Year to what Year. It runs like a dream, and I've already stitched-up a couple of medieval Banners with it, and am working on a commander's Standard at the moment. But the Italian-made Singer 367? Try as I might over the last few days, I have been unable to find any Period of Production dating ; -though I probably not asking the right questions of my search engines. And as for finding the machine's production-date by the Serial number - I cannot even find out how to open the base - which I presume is where I'll find the Maker's Plate with Serial Number - since there isn't one anywhere else on the visible exterior of this machine. So some info assistance from you helpful people would be appreciated. And I'd like to obtain a copy of the Users' Manual, as well. Though this machine does run, again, - it's very dirty externally, and came to me in an un-zipped leather bag - so I guess that machine will also need serving, at the least. would anyone care to comment from your obviously extremely-extensive knowledge of using sewing machines, - on how the Singer 367 and the Bernina 801 Eelectronic were/rare rated by professional or semi-professional [i.e. serious amateur] users? Your comments will be much appreciated. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 12:58:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IGwmg4001393 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 12:58:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IGw1mN052059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 10:58:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IGw0PV046654; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:58:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IGvvw4046606 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 830DF405BD for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 09:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 632713969; Wed, 18 May 2005 09:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:57:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.136] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCi3QQAAWYFgEAAAAB,71ad40eb51678536f6fd592db69dd83c Message-Id: <20050518165752.632713969@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My copy of Medieval Clothing and Textiles just arrived. I haven't even had a chance to look at it yet - it is just out of the box. Happy Dance!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 13:18:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IHI254001516 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 13:18:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IHHKAs055244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 11:17:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IHHIG5066043; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:17:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web42105.mail.yahoo.com (web42105.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4IHHFOp065901 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:17:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 34453 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2005 17:17:10 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=V+jPw5E9WvRxjwsSRKgTXbBrUuibVOSem9VgIU5O0km0CeP4KtMjKiw45CsBpan7cQOabMAsNlRahpjMREVQlj9hz2vgxaUvyn2vSHRev71QS/G52KI2CBl7JUF5n9K+IwJDn/eoEHwW38HxSa5J9lZMFf6AO6pJc+wBsIdWu/o= ; Message-ID: <20050518171710.34451.qmail@web42105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.33.211.118] by web42105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:17:10 PDT Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:17:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Renfaire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why wait for a "reason" to dress up??? Just do it, BECAUSE YOU CAN!!! I do it every so often, just to see the reactions of others. And every Friday is Tiara Friday for a few friends of mine and me. Just beacause we can. Taht's my two-cents worth. --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 14:28:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IISlf0002195 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 14:28:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IIRdWG064100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 12:27:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IIRYau033498; Wed, 18 May 2005 12:27:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.171]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4IIRU7i033347 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 12:27:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18627 invoked by uid 60001); 18 May 2005 18:27:25 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Q+5uu4aYLTyWWu1uRSe1JOQGkqsrtVy+AmNc77Y3rJySJhzPhUG6z5019Ox7rXReqHLk6P9fr7nfP5NfmxrXNsx9zjQJOKDdGcG5/xHGR/tTPwgDAOgVPKcW98Du/UBXRmQ6fx3xWdus+r6Gkg/ebDUE/lBfo5KLQRXHhH5sOvU= ; Message-ID: <20050518182725.18625.qmail@web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:27:25 PDT Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:27:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I SO hope mine shows up today...can't wait to get home from work!!! Chris G. Lalah wrote: My copy of Medieval Clothing and Textiles just arrived. I haven't even had a chance to look at it yet - it is just out of the box. Happy Dance!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 14:46:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IIk8YQ002272 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 14:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IIjOce066215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 12:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IIjMrs050217; Wed, 18 May 2005 12:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IIjKO6050101 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 12:45:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so216364nzo for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:45:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=qZ2kff1NARF/9oo+Lb3Eq+G7t1glYNJV2XvK4LJQf0TBwKwpBMQlLDagpTIljS60TacFcxQM6wnK6OpTNKOFwwFpJpRSyYztPMTrBPMphYtLbW/SB1pBifCQiNpWGDSW7aJonbZzwk1SXMZk7YpsRpq9EGeqB7L27EeJwEhscKM= Received: by 10.36.97.18 with SMTP id u18mr229485nzb; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.10 with HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 14:45:14 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Renfaire In-Reply-To: <20050518171710.34451.qmail@web42105.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050518171710.34451.qmail@web42105.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4IIjKO6050101 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO and really, that's part of where you get into the people wearing inappropriate costumes to events... "just because they can." Not saying that you shouldn't wear "X" to whatever the heck you want, just that it can inappropriate for the venue. (Pirate wear at $1 movie showing of Pirates of the Carribean is appropriate, at the premier of Star Wars, not so much) -Irmgart On 5/18/05, Jodi Nelson wrote: > Why wait for a "reason" to dress up??? Just do it, BECAUSE YOU CAN!!! I do it every so often, just to see the reactions of others. And every Friday is Tiara Friday for a few friends of mine and me. Just beacause we can. Taht's my two-cents worth. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 16:22:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IKMG98002942 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 16:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IKLLDk078281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 14:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IKKhex035007; Wed, 18 May 2005 14:20:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IKKct1034935 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 14:20:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id PAA24097; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:56:08 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505181956.PAA24097@arkroyal.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:56:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505181800.j4II0SgU008209@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4IKKct1034935 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dress up X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Giggle, snort. Where do you work? I get enough weird looks when I wear garb for Halloween. I'm going to try and introduce the local workforce to women in long skirts. I hate stockings . Julie > > Why wait for a "reason" to dress up??? Just do it, BECAUSE YOU CAN!!! I do it every so often, just to see the reactions of others. And every Friday is Tiara Friday for a few friends of mine and me. Just beacause we can. Taht's my two-cents worth. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 16:28:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IKSaGR002994 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 16:28:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IKRnuY079304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 14:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IKRnjN041120; Wed, 18 May 2005 14:27:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IG5fJk099700 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 10:05:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A960B3C829 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 11:05:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <428B680D.8000704@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:06:37 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Serger reviews needed References: <200505172158.j4HLwMhG051994@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO fastusminimus wrote: > Hi > My loyal 2nd hand serger is dying. JoAnns is having a sale on a White > serger this week. Anyone out there have any comments on White sergers? > Are they fairly dependable? I only put moderate use on one... > Thanks White makes a respectable machine. I haven't heard much, good or bad about them. I have an old metal one that sews like a dream, but I don't use it because I have a fancy new digital Viking. Not sure how the newer models compare. The best thing to do is go test drive the one you're looking at and see how it sews and whether you like it. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 16:29:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IKT9Oa003006 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 16:29:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IKSKMa079457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 14:28:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IKSKdd041680; Wed, 18 May 2005 14:28:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4IIBkJX018523 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 12:11:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2005 18:11:40 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050518190448.014da180@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 19:09:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Renfaire In-Reply-To: <20050518171710.34451.qmail@web42105.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:17 18/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Why wait for a "reason" to dress up??? Just do it, BECAUSE YOU CAN!!! I do >it every so often, just to see the reactions of others. And every Friday >is Tiara Friday for a few friends of mine and me. Just beacause we can. >Taht's my two-cents worth. I can just see me popping into Sainsbury's in my medieval horned headdress and 8 yard skirt, collecting dust and small animals and children as I go. Or sitting at my sewing machine, sweeping scissors and pins everywhere and smothering the cat!! No, no, I save mine for special occasions, when there is someone there to help me tighten a corset or straighten a veil - it's a pain when you can't do them yourself due to physical disabilities. I "think" I may be able to wear my contouche in December too - in an 18th century building - yay!! Suzi, wearing T-shirt and cotton trews so I can see the cat and not tread on her - she gets *very* close!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 16:29:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4IKTEfL003009 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 16:29:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4IKSXE0079497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 14:28:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IKSWYZ041892; Wed, 18 May 2005 14:28:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4IJ5J2x067925 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 13:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4IJ5HPJ016899 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:05:17 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.194] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-194.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.194]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4IJ580Q498106 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:05:16 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050518114231.03358f48@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:46:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! Tech/dating-info solicited In-Reply-To: <20050518163901.2615.qmail@web25702.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <6667> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >So some info assistance from you helpful people would be appreciated. And >I'd like to obtain a copy of the Users' Manual, as well. Though this >machine does run, again, - it's very dirty externally, and came to me in >an un-zipped leather bag - so I guess that machine will also need serving, >at the least. > >would anyone care to comment from your obviously extremely-extensive >knowledge of using sewing machines, - on how the Singer 367 and the >Bernina 801 Eelectronic were/rare rated by professional or >semi-professional [i.e. serious amateur] users? >Your comments will be much appreciated. Start here: http://www.ismacs.net It's all old-sewing machine people. I downloaded the manual for my c.1871 Wilcox and Gibbs from there. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 17:31:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ILVFYA003478 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:31:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4ILTlN6086980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 15:29:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILTh1e098641; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:29:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn1.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILTeGC098490 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:29:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 0309A397D; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:29:30 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [142.161.145.5] by mprdmailfe3.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:29:30 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = c656aeab3165d166c2275001c3d6c140 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20050518212930.0309A397D@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:29:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] boy's hat 1600's X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm making 1620's Belgian garb for my 5-year old son -his first pair of breeches. Hopefully the weather will co-operate and the event will be outside; we've had major schizophrenic weather in Winnipeg with 22C one day and -5C with snow the next. If we're outside I don't want his brains to bake, but I can't find a portrait with a hat. Any suggestions? Thanks, Happy Spring Wendy www.hecate.ca/emma/ _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 17:44:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ILinr9003617 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:44:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4ILhhdE088806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 15:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILhd12011727; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:43:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm43.prodigy.net (ylpvm43-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILhXUP011655 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:43:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm43.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ILhe9Q010576 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:43:40 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.194] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-194.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.194]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4ILhSK9224112 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:43:32 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050518143825.0328a710@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 14:38:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] boy's hat 1600's In-Reply-To: <20050518212930.0309A397D@mprdmxin.myway.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If we're outside I don't want his brains to bake, but I can't find a >portrait with a hat. Any suggestions? Use a man's hat. Little boys were miniature men, remember? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 17:55:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ILt5OJ003720 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4ILs8eu090094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 15:54:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILs6C1021167; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:54:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf28.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf28.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.228]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILs3jQ021013 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:54:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip18.cluster1.charter.net (mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.148]) by mxsf28.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j4ILru7G024505 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:53:57 -0400 Received: from 66-189-113-207.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com (HELO familyroom) (66.189.113.207) by mxip18.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 18 May 2005 17:53:56 -0400 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.93,118,1115006400"; d="scan'208"; a="1103359708:sNHT13085352" From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Serger reviews needed Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:53:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c55bf4$18cb9470$0302a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: <428B680D.8000704@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have a 10 year old Janome MyLock 234d. It sews fine but it is very wimpy, it cannot sew canvas. Two layers of cotton, no problems; I'd give it a fair rating. Good Luck. Annette -----Original Message----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 17:57:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ILvGl5003734 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 17:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4ILuUlB090373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 15:56:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILuTvB023298; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ILsKf5021302 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 15:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95603C82C for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 16:54:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <428BB9B6.9000900@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 16:55:02 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] boy's hat 1600's References: <20050518212930.0309A397D@mprdmxin.myway.com> In-Reply-To: <20050518212930.0309A397D@mprdmxin.myway.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wendy wrote: > > I'm making 1620's Belgian garb for my 5-year old son -his first pair of breeches. > Hopefully the weather will co-operate and the event will be outside; we've had major schizophrenic weather in Winnipeg with 22C one day and -5C with snow the next. > > If we're outside I don't want his brains to bake, but I can't find a portrait with a hat. Any suggestions? > I have a scan of a poor copy of an unnamed, undated painting by a Flemish artist named David Teniers. I'm guessing 1620-1640 ish. The little boy wears a hat which looks like a flat cap: www.reddawn.net/costume/art/photos/hats/teniers2.jpg IIRC this artist did a lot of peasant genre paintings, continuing in the 16th tradition. Perhaps you can find others. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 21:55:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J1tT4p005139 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 21:55:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J1sUgt014520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 19:54:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J1sL2W004130; Wed, 18 May 2005 19:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J1sH86004062 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 19:54:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005051901541101100j0rvle>; Thu, 19 May 2005 01:54:11 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c55c15$a7e24660$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:52:32 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Yippee!!!! Star Wars 3 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4J1tT4p005139 Status: RO We got tickets online tonight to see Star Wars 3!!!! Yippee!!!!! Our local theater is showing the film on all 20 screens at midnight tonight. By 6pm all but two screens were sold out! Funny, my husband has had a birthday present to see all six episodes over the years. What am I going to give him for a present in the future? Someone needs to make another cool series of films. I'll let you know about the costumes when I return. If anyone else gets to see Star Wars 3 tonight... it would be fun to hear your opinion of the costumes. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 22:54:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J2sDWr005456 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 22:54:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J2rG2d020482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 20:53:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J2rEjC045021; Wed, 18 May 2005 20:53:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J2r90J044954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 20:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4J2jVmT030477 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 22:45:31 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 22:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428BFF93.7080606@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 22:53:07 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume notes 1662: sarcenet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excerpt: "At home I found my wife discontented at my being abroad, but I pleased her. She was in her new suit of black sarcenet and yellow petticoat very pretty." http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/05/18/index.php -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 18 22:57:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J2vHof005462 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 22:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J2uCEG020846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 20:56:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J2uBYn047135; Wed, 18 May 2005 20:56:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32902.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32902.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.49]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4J2u8vb047063 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 20:56:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 45987 invoked by uid 60001); 19 May 2005 02:56:03 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=VcGm8d/1VLp3LMtZ4mLUTH5rLuRO8qz7fQlkk4D18D+fRkzGziX0lu8RYBN5mBQzXoQ4HZsN3cbOenSDp1rdAcoiQcRQ55wBnaiGYszSMJ1dkEYe7MVE+LOUj++CgB3q07d9IrRLnAaOMaVuV2WNEzObZAAL6LY9XmAlpNiQB5c= ; Message-ID: <20050519025603.45985.qmail@web32902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.84.245] by web32902.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 19:56:03 PDT Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 19:56:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that faire ... and their squed sense of propriety To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My Peeve point exactly, I too,wrote the REC, with my same opinion as yours, I got back a "form" type reply with the standard " we are trying to appeal to as wide an audience as possible...." a statement made by a fellow board member said that if you charge for admission you can't restrict what people wear in. What about all the signs I see with "we reserve the right to refuse admission/service to anyone". True you can't take a persons money THEN say"no you can't come in I don't like your outfit". But, I know Disney land can and will tell you "Sorry" if they don't like your clothes. Heck they made a friend roll down her shorts legs cause they thought they were to close to the bottom of her bottom.When she started to protest they said "ok, no ticket". I know dance clubs will not let you in if they don't think your garb is appropriate. So I really can't see that as a valid "excuse" to let in PopEye or Batman. Now, if REC wants to change the color and tone of Faire and call it simply "Fantasy Faire" I'll quit complaning, and going.I can't see the duplicity of telling the hired help "you must wear this, behave like this,talk like this" when they can't respect their performers enough to do the same at the gate. I have no problem with Mundanes attending, dressing up is a choice...(my husband will not even consider dressing, I don't make him, just getting him to go more then once every 20 years is hard enuff.) My 4 kids,would never consider NOT dressing and are learning to make their own garb. But please ,don't ruin my once a year escape for 6 hrs, where courtly men "make a leg" when you pass...and gentility rules for the day. Melody --- Lynn Downward wrote: > I'm no longer connected to any ren faires (so this > is a personal > comment, not from a faire organization - and not > directed to any one > person), but if you've all followed the > conversation, the ren faire > isn't the place to wear a pre-Raphaelite dress - or > the Klingon, > fairy, medieval or Wicked Witch of the West outfits > that people wear > to the fairs. To those people working at the faires > trying to bring > authenticity to it, it's frustrating to spent $400 > on a dress that > would look right in QEWU and be lumped into the same > picture as Snow > White in the minds of visitors who don't know that > Snow White is a > visitor. I started a tirade on REC and deleted it; > this is not the > venue. > > However, when someone from a SciFi venue says that > Fantasy costumes > are sneered at, it's the same thing. Dressing up is > a privelege not a > right, and one should try to dress appropriately > unless it's Halloween > and anything goes. I applaud the willingness to wear > a costume and try > to join in the fun - I really do. But it's still > frustrating to really > work hard on making the appropriate picture and have > someone in > screaming pink satin costume, or even a very nice 15 > C Venetian dress, > plunk themselves down in the middle of the > Elizabethan nobles and skew > our picture. The Venetian dress, as nice as it may > be, is as bad to > the picture as the pink dress. As nice as my > Elizabethan court dress > is, I would never wear it to the Dickens Fair, or a > SciFi convention > or a Fantasy convention; it's not appropriate. > > End of rant, off the soap box. Sorry. > LynnD > > > > On 5/17/05, E House > wrote: > > While I've yet to actually ATTEND a renfaire, I > have to admit I think of it > > as a place I could finally wear some of the > Pre-Raphaelite* stuff I love to > > make. ...... > > > > -E House > > > Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 00:24:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J4OYRv005914 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 00:24:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J4MfvG028730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 22:22:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J4MFka003750; Wed, 18 May 2005 22:22:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4J4MAi3003584 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 22:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 95627 invoked by uid 60001); 19 May 2005 04:22:02 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=eAQ3xs9AV04jvROffrefpyVZ6ZTlSXxb4uR4/2niT+1cDZItxCBz0SX4uipXdxjU+PPwZ3qr3PuXTOZsTYih6a04MCxib4so9BjMSVrPL+OFW+wVrCY2vriYR/RPJu0Xexu236vmuJnWHopk5Vn9Hs+1KfFWFGexsDTs+NKj6k0= ; Message-ID: <20050519042202.95624.qmail@web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.84.245] by web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 21:22:02 PDT Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] dress-up/Renfaire Cold Xmas To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What was this guys name? Ebanezer? So much for the Christmas spirit! Hope he got a lump of coal in his stocking..... --- Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 15:23 17/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: > >Suzi Clarke wrote: > > > >>At least you get to dress up at Halloween. > > > >Can you not make up your own holiday, or have a > block party with costumes > >or something? > > > My neighbours did not even offer us a cup of tea, or > a warm room to sit in > one year when our electricity went off for 23 hours > due to a cable fault on > Christmas Day. I don't think I will be holding > parties with them somehow!! > Maybe next year's Twelfth Night party - who knows? > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 01:03:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J53t0H006148 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 01:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J52vVI034697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 May 2005 23:02:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J52sPq028205; Wed, 18 May 2005 23:02:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.253]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J52qGT028184 for ; Wed, 18 May 2005 23:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l237j.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.12.243] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DYdBL-0003nk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 18 May 2005 22:02:51 -0700 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050518231123.0286eb20@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 23:18:16 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200505172306.j4HN6Gxc010478@net.indra.com> References: <200505172306.j4HN6Gxc010478@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Serger review X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol, I have a White serger and really like it, but it's at least 15 yrs old. I don't know if the new ones are as good or not. It's not fancy (doesn't do rolled hems easily, manual threading, etc.) but it's gotten me (and hubby) thru miles of velvet, lame', satins, and all kinds of weird fabrics. At the time, it was one of the heaviest sergers made, which means it doesn't dance all over the table when you run it at full speed. In all this time, it's only needed routine cleanings and tune-ups - no major repairs. HTH, Sandy At 06:06 PM 5/17/2005, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 18:42:53 -0400 >From: fastusminimus > >My loyal 2nd hand serger is dying. JoAnns is having a sale on a White >serger this week. Anyone out there have any comments on White >sergers? Are they fairly dependable? I only put moderate use on one... >Thanks "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 02:38:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J6cZra018477 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 02:38:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J6bHRV044986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 00:37:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J6bAsx083607; Thu, 19 May 2005 00:37:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4J6b6LH083545 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 00:37:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 26720 invoked from network); 19 May 2005 06:58:36 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 23:58:36 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 May 2005 23:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1103.24.4.69.40.1116484626.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050518231123.0286eb20@pop.radiks.net> References: <200505172306.j4HN6Gxc010478@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20050518231123.0286eb20@pop.radiks.net> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 23:37:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Serger review From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Carol, > > I have a White serger and really like it, but it's at least 15 yrs old. I > don't know if the new ones are as good or not. It's not fancy (doesn't do > rolled hems easily, manual threading, etc.) but it's gotten me (and hubby) > thru miles of velvet, lame', satins, and all kinds of weird fabrics. At > the time, it was one of the heaviest sergers made, which means it doesn't > dance all over the table when you run it at full speed. > > In all this time, it's only needed routine cleanings and tune-ups - no > major repairs. I can say the same thing about my Juki serger. I was told that the type to buy is the kind that has two blades and cuts the fabric with a scissor action. It is kind of a pain to thread but it runs like a champ. I have only replaced the needles once and the blades once in 10 years. And it has gone through anything I throw at it. I would buy one again in a heartbeat. HTH, Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 03:21:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J7LdtA000421 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 03:21:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J7KiOP050697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 01:20:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J7Kgej013077; Thu, 19 May 2005 01:20:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J7KeaC012982 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 01:20:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so441862nzp for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 00:20:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=hc4eEdAJvUt5kGdiZm+G2swXYQcrgTlWhcQdmGvKQ4BToL694N+DPdWxqnN/MhlW4+lUmzkvYdl4UwiylYjpQOvyf9bhjmwkUWuv5nyhCyyvh7qNMd+Srj+pgMDTeOdT/ehAA2vXonvLU8X5ur1haLEegiJsAvt2qKYKgLqooEY= Received: by 10.36.3.14 with SMTP id 14mr397566nzc; Thu, 19 May 2005 00:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Thu, 19 May 2005 00:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 00:20:31 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4J7KeaC012982 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A busk -- was: another SCORE! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Subject: Re: [h-cost] another SCORE! >> Manly Art of Sewing"..or "Bold and Sewing Men"..get >> those pups hooked, point out the savings in making it >> yourself. >Heck, just tell 'em it's a "power fabric joining tool". >Dianne Funny! Costume with powertools... which reminds me of a story. A few weeks back I went to one of the usual Sewing Hells. Since I'm working on a very late Elizabethan with a drum farthingale, the head-on-a platter ruff, you know that look. "All I need..." you know you've said that... "is a busk". Oh, not those itsy bitsy little Victorian ones. Pooh-pooh! I need a real busk. A big ole triangle of carved & polished wood, shove it down your corset, dance La Volta kinda busk. So along with all my silks & laces & corset & farthingale, I trot off to the Sewing Hell with a piece of ash off the wood pile. A friend removed an ash tree out from under her foundation a couple years back, so this chunk was dirty, but nicely aged. I had a sketch of a busk, plan view & crosssection view, on a paper napkin. We do that in Silicon Valley, engineering diagrams and business plans are best done on napkins. It's a local tradition. When I got to the sewing Hell, I asked Brian, the gentleman of the house, how to render this chunk of ash into a busk per my drawing. "Oh, if you had a piece of wood... I could try," says he. I think he was a little surprised when he got his hands on my ash. Off he went to the garage. It's beautiful wood with a fine white grain. Doesnt split easily. Sands smoothly. Anyway, by the end of the evening, he'd turned firewood to ladies' underwear. Now that he's added his makers mark (SCA arms) to my busk he's thinking about entering it in one of the local SCA arts competitions. Something about period underpinings. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 03:45:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J7j4i5002528 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 03:45:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J7i57k053299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 01:44:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J7hsfX025774; Thu, 19 May 2005 01:43:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J7hor5025685 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 01:43:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050519074344.XVTH2892.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 19:43:44 +1200 Received: from michaela ([222.153.224.179]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050519074344.IWOW16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 19:43:44 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [266.11.12]); Thu, 19 May 2005 19:43:45 +1200 Message-ID: <008d01c55c46$7c58d5f0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002301c55c15$a7e24660$0300a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Yippee!!!! Star Wars 3 Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:43:45 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I got to see it on Monday NZ time, which would have been Sunday States time;) I went in costume, Padme's final one. My very brief review is on my costuming journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/pinkdiamond/ I haven't gone itno too much detail as most people haven't seen it yet, and as some costumes are rather spoilery when you try and discuss the symbolism of them....;) Padme's final costume reminded me greatly of Waterhouse's most famous Ophelia. Indeed there was a deliberate use of water as a theme for Padme, which becomes obvious as a foil to what happens to another character. Mind you the only surprises for me was in what was cut out as I frequent http://theforce.net 's costuming and props board as well as http://www.padawansguide.com to know as much about the costumes as possible. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com <<>> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 04:58:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J8wQ1C021875 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 04:58:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J8vX4V068980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 02:57:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J8vT25065261; Thu, 19 May 2005 02:57:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J8vRdX065221 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 02:57:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32fe6.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.230]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DA5D35EE0BC for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 10:57:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c55c50$cae7b8d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:57:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lurker call X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello everybody. I have ben lurking you lately, and just want to tell you all that i leave Copenhagen in a coupple of hours to join the gustavians in Stockholm. We are celebrating spring party at Nyckelviken again and i shall wear my "replica" cut wise of the weddingsuit of Gustav III. from 1766. I made it excatly in cut so i shall have to have a straight posture with narrow shoulders and breast pushed forward. I am very pleased with the result, with silver bobbin lace edged all over. The colour of the duchesse silk is sky blue. Unfortunately i did not have the time to make bobbin lace for the waistcoat so it is plain. The rich duchesse satin is very nice to sew with. I interlined the whole coat with heavy linnen and lined it with silk. This time i used really replicas of button molds made in wood. I will promise you all pictures from the event wich is on saturday afternoon. I shall make pictures for you next week. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 05:46:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4J9kvNg032735 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 05:46:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4J9kAKc075268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 03:46:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J9k9lD091809; Thu, 19 May 2005 03:46:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4J9k3JU091740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 03:46:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4J9cOmT032264 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 05:38:24 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 May 2005 05:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <428C6059.9030107@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 05:46:01 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A busk -- was: another SCORE! References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cin wrote: > I think he was a little surprised when he got his hands on my ash. You really should warn us if you're going to write a sentence like that! > Anyway, by the end of the evening, he'd > turned firewood to ladies' underwear. It's so keen when someone does that. I saw a man turn firewood into a spoon once, because he wanted to do something while hanging around the fire. > Now that he's added his makers mark (SCA arms) to my busk he's > thinking about entering it in one of the local SCA arts competitions. > Something about period underpinings. But you said it was ash, not pine! Good story! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The SCA is very tolerant of all types, including the ones that refuse to take their meds. -- Anton of Winteroak _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 07:45:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JBjCJi009026 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 07:45:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JBi0on084065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 05:44:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JBhwbO062296; Thu, 19 May 2005 05:43:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JBhrA2062248 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 05:43:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-92-49.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.92.49]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4JBh7Y1029341 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 07:43:10 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050519043655.02704ca8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 04:39:41 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] A busk -- was: another SCORE! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I had a sketch of a busk, >plan view & crosssection view, on a paper napkin. We do that in >Silicon Valley, engineering diagrams and business plans are best done >on napkins. It's a local tradition. There's an add-on program for AutoCad which makes your nice drawing look like it was done on a paper napkin. All the lines bleed a little, artistically of course. No, I'm not making this up. I saw it in an AutoCad magazine. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 08:53:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JCr2la009475 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:53:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JCpRdk090128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 06:51:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JCpNFI006288; Thu, 19 May 2005 06:51:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JCpKWh006241 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 06:51:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-217-58-79.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.217.58.79]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j4JDp9nv002252 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 23:51:15 +1000 Message-ID: <004b01c55c71$4b75d340$4f3ad9cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050517042757.73976.qmail@web32901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004301c55aee$a2085ae0$25d14fd1@dnyeaqvf> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 22:50:05 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, ..I'll get the swatter... > > Southern Ren Faire has become a joke....so sad... > > even the Queen was over heard to say "this is > > rediculous" as she made her way thru the crowd. > > No, what's ridiculous is a paid entertainer audibly dissing her audience, no > matter how poorly she considers them to be dressed. If I were management, > I'd fire her for that. > Margo > Actually if the comment was just 'this is ridiculous' there's no actual indication that she was commenting on the patrons clothing. Without being there and seeing the context I'd be just as likely to assume that somebody had forgotten a vital prop or done something else that made it unnecessarily difficult for her to do her job (i.e perform as the Queen). Perhaps Melody knows something we don't (she was there after all) but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that such a comment had anything to do with what the patrons were wearing. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 10:02:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JE288j009926 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 10:02:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JE0qgN097085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 08:00:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JE0kUu054317; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JE0hwd054198 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:00:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AC03500B009A; Thu, 19 May 2005 10:00:35 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.116 ([209.131.81.116] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 19 May 05 14:00:32 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01c55c7b$693c00c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:02:34 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] white gloves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4JE288j009926 Status: RO Question for those of you who do the museum scene. What is the current attitude/scholarship regarding the use/necessity of wearing museum gloves when handling artifacts in your venues? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 10:25:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JEP9W6010086 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 10:25:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JEOIue099725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 08:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JEOGM6072927; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:24:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4JEOBVR072776 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2005 14:24:05 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050519151611.015f1eb8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 15:22:02 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] white gloves In-Reply-To: <000c01c55c7b$693c00c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:02 19/05/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Question for those of you who do the museum scene. >What is the current attitude/scholarship regarding the use/necessity of >wearing museum gloves when handling artifacts in your venues? At the 17th century study day I went to in Maidstone last week, the conservator wore latex gloves of some kind. She was handling garments, gloves, and a stump work box of absolutely exquisite workmanship. The quality of the embroidery was like painting, and the box was quite beautiful. At the Museum of London, where I am a volunteer, gloves are worn for handling garments, except under very particular circumstances. We were rolling a huge Victorian paisley shawl for storage, and it was impossible to keep it taut and smooth while wearing gloves. It was safer to have clean hands than to possibly cause damage by mishandling. They were very unusual circumstances, however, and normally the curators do wear gloves. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 10:32:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JEWTnr010131 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 10:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JEVaeP000633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 08:31:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JEVXP9078833; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:31:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S2.cableone.net (smtp2.cableone.net [24.116.0.228]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JEVUMp078751 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:31:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.251.184]) by S2.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S2) with ESMTP id 20548972 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:03:48 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] white gloves Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 09:31:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c55c7f$787dcec0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <000c01c55c7b$693c00c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 33, in=38, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.251.184 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Opinion is, as usual, divided. In general, if the work you need to do with an object allows the wearing of gloves, then wear them. An exception might be handling slippery items such as ceramics. In that case, either wear non-skid gloves or wash hands before handling with bare hands. If you need to handle objects without gloves, (for instance, to sew on a tag) you must wash your hands frequently. And you have to remember not to touch your face or hair, because doing that will pick up oils, and you'll have to wash again. If you are handling artifacts to show them to visitors, wearing gloves is a good idea. Same thing goes as for clean hands--do not touch face, hair, or other objects with the gloves. I find I have to take the gloves off frequently, then put them back on for handling atifacts. Get clean gloves as often as necessary. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:03 AM To: H-Costume Subject: [h-cost] white gloves Question for those of you who do the museum scene. What is the current attitude/scholarship regarding the use/necessity of wearing museum gloves when handling artifacts in your venues? Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 10:35:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JEZGK5010140 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 10:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JEY84P000972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 08:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JEY8lf080922; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:34:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.171]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4JEWjiv079798 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:32:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 24816 invoked by uid 60001); 19 May 2005 14:32:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=M1vMdYLTrq2WEUbcswRsQJMWr6GdssbU8RHZ0memkxMPAnV7SXqBDQn/zcBNzVEfhJC9IFAqFHyGV8cEjMKjwWTfuiDvQ1eB007jPxw34wNAv4VOJoia8+ZRnQ6psTUn5Kiqm75sRa+DuZNZhLrQ9m1dtSzMdoiXSQdersASSNk= ; Message-ID: <20050519143238.24814.qmail@web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 19 May 2005 07:32:38 PDT Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 07:32:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] lurker call To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have FUN!!! I, for one, can not wait to see the pictures. Chris G. Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hello everybody. I have ben lurking you lately, and just want to tell you all that i leave Copenhagen in a coupple of hours to join the gustavians in Stockholm. We are celebrating spring party at Nyckelviken again and i shall wear my "replica" cut wise of the weddingsuit of Gustav III. from 1766. I made it excatly in cut so i shall have to have a straight posture with narrow shoulders and breast pushed forward. I am very pleased with the result, with silver bobbin lace edged all over. The colour of the duchesse silk is sky blue. Unfortunately i did not have the time to make bobbin lace for the waistcoat so it is plain. The rich duchesse satin is very nice to sew with. I interlined the whole coat with heavy linnen and lined it with silk. This time i used really replicas of button molds made in wood. I will promise you all pictures from the event wich is on saturday afternoon. I shall make pictures for you next week. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 14:47:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JIlTjL012116 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 14:47:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JIjwNQ037151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 12:45:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JIjnVP005220; Thu, 19 May 2005 12:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JIjjTp005079 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 12:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so651946nzp for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=VWQDsLZgSUXrBA4sAFT56Hdx/qYaBKiJADrsnAnVe8upB5z+VmJBvNi/JQjbMtCvqGsi75KAJNUO4wINePNSxMUND3Xu/0xW54ZQLX9bqYViD2kB8TGFsZtrKX0UjTiitgeQcpu6G97236JIFBZB/Czu2d5VN3klZFnUSmPaAeQ= Received: by 10.36.68.2 with SMTP id q2mr604108nza; Thu, 19 May 2005 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Thu, 19 May 2005 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 11:45:38 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4JIjjTp005079 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: A busk -- was: another SCORE! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: Cynthia Virtue >> I think he was a little surprised when he got his hands on my ash. >You really should warn us if you're going to write a sentence like that! It was just a test to see how carefully you'd read... We were doing stupid tree jokes like that all evening. Once Brian finished sanding the busk we were all pining, as you said, to touch it's smooth white ash. From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >There's an add-on program for AutoCad which makes your nice drawing look >like it was done on a paper napkin. All the lines bleed a little, >artistically of course. No, I'm not making this up. I saw it in an >AutoCad magazine. Nifty! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 17:54:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JLsDuV014241 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 17:54:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JLqqGn059665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 15:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JLqf76074844; Thu, 19 May 2005 15:52:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JLqV1I074676 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 15:52:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04446 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:52:28 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:52:16 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Auction of Denise Poiret's collection Thread-Index: AcVcowPwCGpaf6HRQSioMZOIVRlbHgAGKfhg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4JLqV1I074676 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Auction of Denise Poiret's collection X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Denise Poiret's collection of her former husband Paul Poiret's designs for her was auctioned in Paris on May 10-11th. Denise Poiret died in c1982, yet had kept hundreds of items her ex had designed just for her. The items were offered for auction by her granddaughter and it was hoped that one or two museums might bid and win the bulk of the items, rather than all of them being dispersed among many collectors. As a "simple summer dress" was expected to go for at least $3,000 + , it was expected that not all the items would quietly disappear into private collections. Some of the items were featured in the May issues of Vogue and Harper's Bazaar. Does anyone on the list know of the results of this auction? I'm hoping that maybe the Musee du Costume or the Kyoto Costume Museum acquired many items. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cin Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 1:46 PM To: h-cost Subject: [h-cost] Re: A busk -- was: another SCORE! From: Cynthia Virtue >> I think he was a little surprised when he got his hands on my ash. >You really should warn us if you're going to write a sentence like that! It was just a test to see how carefully you'd read... We were doing stupid tree jokes like that all evening. Once Brian finished sanding the busk we were all pining, as you said, to touch it's smooth white ash. From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >There's an add-on program for AutoCad which makes your nice drawing >look like it was done on a paper napkin. All the lines bleed a little, >artistically of course. No, I'm not making this up. I saw it in an >AutoCad magazine. Nifty! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 18:02:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JM2s91014307 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JM1r8M060807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 16:01:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JM1p2c083399; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:01:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JM1k5m083310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:01:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-224.sonic.net [209.148.113.224]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JM1imt013955 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 15:01:44 -0700 Message-ID: <428D0CDF.6000808@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 15:02:07 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Auction of Denise Poiret's collection & Film References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm hoping someone published an auction catalog with pictures. BTW, I watched a great Napoleonic period DVD last night, "The Marquise of O." German with English subtitles. Very painterly. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Abel, Cynthia wrote: >Denise Poiret's collection of her former husband Paul Poiret's designs >for her was auctioned in Paris on May 10-11th. Denise Poiret died in >c1982, yet had kept hundreds of items her ex had designed just for her. >The items were offered for auction by her granddaughter and it was hoped >that one or two museums might bid and win the bulk of the items, rather >than all of them being dispersed among many collectors. As a "simple >summer dress" was expected to go for at least $3,000 + , it was expected >that not all the items would quietly disappear into private collections. >Some of the items were featured in the May issues of Vogue and Harper's >Bazaar. > >Does anyone on the list know of the results of this auction? I'm hoping >that maybe the Musee du Costume or the Kyoto Costume Museum acquired >many items. > >Cindy Abel > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >On Behalf Of Cin >Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 1:46 PM >To: h-cost >Subject: [h-cost] Re: A busk -- was: another SCORE! > >From: Cynthia Virtue > > >>>I think he was a little surprised when he got his hands on my ash. >>> >>> > > > >>You really should warn us if you're going to write a sentence like >> >> >that! > >It was just a test to see how carefully you'd read... We were >doing stupid tree jokes like that all evening. Once Brian finished >sanding the busk we were all pining, as you said, to touch it's smooth >white ash. > >From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > > >>There's an add-on program for AutoCad which makes your nice drawing >>look like it was done on a paper napkin. All the lines bleed a little, >> >> > > > >>artistically of course. No, I'm not making this up. I saw it in an >>AutoCad magazine. >> >> > >Nifty! > >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 18:18:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JMIkRZ014398 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:18:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JMHTIL062578 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 16:17:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JMHPLj096897; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:17:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JFNWT4022602 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 09:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17EBC4070C for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 9DCC83954; Thu, 19 May 2005 08:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 08:23:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!! X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.135] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCjK9uAAlP/gEAAAAB,05cd24219eb6e406689f2f8052a7a34c Message-Id: <20050519152326.9DCC83954@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I spent a couple of hours going through my new treasure instead of working on the bathroom. It all looks great. I read Robin's article on Tippets and it was TERRIFIC. I try not to wear fitted clothing because of my big fat tummy, but that article has really got me interested in the period. It looks like everything is so wonderfully documented that you can actually have faith in what is written. I can hardly wait until I can steal another couple of hours to read more. Robin, GREAT WORK, THANKS. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Lalah wrote: From: Lalah Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:57:52 -0700 (PDT) To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!! My copy of Medieval Clothing and Textiles just arrived. I haven't even had a chance to look at it yet - it is just out of the box. Happy Dance!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 18:36:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JMa3fL014478 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JMZMSI064590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 16:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JMZKiC013221; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:35:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JMZELb013118 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07734 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:51:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 16:51:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!! In-Reply-To: <20050519152326.9DCC83954@sitemail.everyone.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 19 May 2005, Lalah wrote: > I spent a couple of hours going through my new treasure instead of > working on the bathroom. It all looks great. I read Robin's article > on Tippets and it was TERRIFIC. I try not to wear fitted clothing > because of my big fat tummy, but that article has really got me > interested in the period. It looks like everything is so wonderfully > documented that you can actually have faith in what is written. I can > hardly wait until I can steal another couple of hours to read more. > > Robin, GREAT WORK, THANKS. Thank *you*. I am so pleased to hear that something this academic can be of interest to people doing real costuming. Regarding the wonderful documentation: One trick to getting the most out of an academic paper is to track back the footnotes. Even if the paper isn't smack on your interest, if it's covering the right period or general topic, the footnotes may lead you to useful sources you wouldn't have found otherwise. For instance, that article on Anglo-Saxon embroidery is actually a summary of all known surviving European embroideries pre-1100, and the footnotes tell you where to go to get the full rundown on each of the pieces mentioned. In Vol. 2, we have a paper analyzing clothing references in a particular 9th-c. Irish story, but even if you're not interested in that story, the 200 or so footnotes can serve as a pretty comprehensive reading list of sources on clothing of the Hiberno-Viking era. A large part of my work involves making sure those footnotes are properly presented, correct, and useful. Oh, and regarding 14th c. fitted clothing: big tummies were fashionable. It's true that women in period were probably not as large in general as women today, but by good fortune the style looks great on women of all sizes. A fitted dress distinguishes the ribcage dip under the bust and the small of the back -- much more attractive and more feminine than a shapeless tunic that tries to hide the large areas and thus conceals all the curves. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 18:51:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JMpRZ2014542 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:51:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JMoe5b065980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 16:50:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JMod0e025654; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:50:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JMoZkW025601 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 16:50:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOH8JIZ02891XIS2@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 May 2005 10:50:29 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOH8J2OV1A90P2FN@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 May 2005 10:50:06 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:51:13 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] IT'S HERE, IT'S HERE!!! In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <428D1861.6070607@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >Oh, and regarding 14th c. fitted clothing: big tummies were fashionable. >It's true that women in period were probably not as large in general as >women today, but by good fortune the style looks great on women of all >sizes. A fitted dress distinguishes the ribcage dip under the bust and the >small of the back -- much more attractive and more feminine than a >shapeless tunic that tries to hide the large areas and thus conceals all >the curves. > > Ohhh... don't get me started... I have seen _so_ many large women who seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that baggy, unfitted clothing is somehow more modest or flattering. Really, it isn't flattering at all, and in the case of more than one lady who has made an Italian Ren gown so unfitted that it hangs like a sack, it looks slovenly to boot. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 19:25:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4JNP7KB014772 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 19:25:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4JNOEeq068949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 17:24:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4JNO95t050806; Thu, 19 May 2005 17:24:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50602.mail.yahoo.com (web50602.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4JNO5dK050699 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 17:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 14210 invoked by uid 60001); 19 May 2005 23:24:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20050519232400.14208.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 19 May 2005 19:24:00 EDT Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 19:24:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I am in fabric dye hell X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings to those far more sane than I, I am ready to bury some yardage in my backyard, I am certain it will crawl out by itself- I'm convinced it is possessed. I am trying to dye 55/45 cotton/hemp twill black. I started out with partial bleached state. I used Procion MX from G&S Dyes not once, but Twice - and it wouldn't turn black. Best I could get was weird indigo-ish blue. I have tried Rit - 3 boxes of the stuff for 3.5 yards of fabric, and oh yes, it's black, but running all over the place. I put salt in the dye, I have hit it with dye stabiliser (G&S calls it Raycafix), with their equivalent of Synthrapol, regular detergent, vinegar, warm water, hot water, cold water... and it's still bleeding. AND... that weird blue is coming back... its FADING!!! ARGH! Does anyone have any ideas? anything? Please? I'm about ready to start casting spells and poking it with voodoo pins... Any ideas no matter how unconventional are welcome and deeply appreciated... Kathy "The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred in their bones." Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar" ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 20:41:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K0fiPl015128 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:41:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K0eL1h076014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 18:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K0eIRH004300; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:40:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K0eEsP004243 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:40:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from deforce@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp261.pop1.net [209.102.127.96]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA06968 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 17:43:02 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp261.pop1.net [209.102.127.96] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <428D31C5.7000003@pcez.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 17:39:33 -0700 From: Paul Cooper User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I am in fabric dye hell References: <20050519232400.14208.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050519232400.14208.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathy Page wrote: >Greetings to those far more sane than I, > >I am ready to bury some yardage in my backyard, I am >certain it will crawl out by itself- I'm convinced it >is possessed. > >I am trying to dye 55/45 cotton/hemp twill black. I >started out with partial bleached state. I used >Procion MX from G&S Dyes not once, but Twice - and it >wouldn't turn black. Best I could get was weird >indigo-ish blue. > >I have tried Rit - 3 boxes of the stuff for 3.5 yards >of fabric, and oh yes, it's black, but running all >over the place. I put salt in the dye, I have hit it >with dye stabiliser (G&S calls it Raycafix), with >their equivalent of Synthrapol, regular detergent, >vinegar, warm water, hot water, cold water... and it's >still bleeding. AND... that weird blue is coming >back... its FADING!!! ARGH! > >Does anyone have any ideas? anything? Please? I'm >about ready to start casting spells and poking it with >voodoo pins... > >Any ideas no matter how unconventional are welcome and >deeply appreciated... > >Kathy > >"The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred in their bones." Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar" > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > Sorry to laugh at your pain but have you tried permanent marker? On a more serious note you might try the dye offers on the Thai silks web site I believe it is thaisilks.com. Other than that you might try exorcism. Armand _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 20:42:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K0g9hE015131 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:42:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K0fJTo076129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 18:41:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K0fIAn004962; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:41:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K0fF5E004860 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:41:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 May 2005 17:41:10 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 20 May 2005 00:41:10 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050519232400.14208.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I am in fabric dye hell Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 20:40:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2005 00:41:10.0567 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E205B70:01C55CD4] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Procion dye should have handled hemp. If Procion didn't work, it's normal that Rit is not doing a good job. Indigo-ish blue means that the black dye is blue-based. All black dyes are either blue- or red-based. In your case, it's just not taking very well, so it comes out blue. Frankly, I never try to dye anything black, because it's nearly impossible to get a decent black on anything, even cotton. And linen/hemp is harder to dye than cotton. I'd call (or write) Dharma and ask their advice. Maybe they have something that works better than Procion on hemp? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Page" To: "Historical Costume List" Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:24 PM Subject: [h-cost] I am in fabric dye hell > Greetings to those far more sane than I, > > I am ready to bury some yardage in my backyard, I am > certain it will crawl out by itself- I'm convinced it > is possessed. > > I am trying to dye 55/45 cotton/hemp twill black. I > started out with partial bleached state. I used > Procion MX from G&S Dyes not once, but Twice - and it > wouldn't turn black. Best I could get was weird > indigo-ish blue. > > I have tried Rit - 3 boxes of the stuff for 3.5 yards > of fabric, and oh yes, it's black, but running all > over the place. I put salt in the dye, I have hit it > with dye stabiliser (G&S calls it Raycafix), with > their equivalent of Synthrapol, regular detergent, > vinegar, warm water, hot water, cold water... and it's > still bleeding. AND... that weird blue is coming > back... its FADING!!! ARGH! > > Does anyone have any ideas? anything? Please? I'm > about ready to start casting spells and poking it with > voodoo pins... > > Any ideas no matter how unconventional are welcome and > deeply appreciated... > > Kathy > > "The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred in their > bones." Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar" > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 20:53:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K0rO9g015207 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:53:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K0q30o076893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 18:52:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K0q2Op012313; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:52:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K0pi74012052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 18:51:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K2AW9H028080 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:10:32 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lurker call Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 20:51:38 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <001101c55c50$cae7b8d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001101c55c50$cae7b8d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505192051.38281.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 19 May 2005 4:57 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > We are celebrating spring party at Nyckelviken again and i shall wear my > "replica" cut wise of the weddingsuit of Gustav III. from 1766. > I made it excatly in cut so i shall have to have a straight posture with > narrow shoulders and breast pushed forward. > I am very pleased with the result, with silver bobbin lace edged all over. > The colour of the duchesse silk is sky blue. > Unfortunately i did not have the time to make bobbin lace for the waistcoat > so it is plain. > The rich duchesse satin is very nice to sew with. I interlined the whole > coat with heavy linnen and lined it with silk. > This time i used really replicas of button molds made in wood. > I will promise you all pictures from the event wich is on saturday > afternoon. I shall make pictures for you next week. It sounds lovely, Bjarne. Can't wait to see the pictures! -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 22:12:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K2CJBE015465 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:12:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K2BE7A089164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 20:11:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K2B9hO070736; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K2B55v070613 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:11:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.96.27ba1016 (1320) for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:10:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <96.27ba1016.2fbea12b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 22:10:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] I am in fabric dye hell To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/19/2005 8:41:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: And linen/hemp is harder to dye than cotton. That is true--while linen and hemp are both cellulose, like cotton, their more highly crystalline structures makes it harder for the dye to penetrate. Commercially, they can be dyed under pressure. Maybe you need to settle for navy blue. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 22:40:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K2e7FY015573 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:40:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K2dHOS091954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 20:39:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K2cnv6089864; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:39:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.109.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K2ckCl089834 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:38:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marthakelly@nyc.rr.com) Received: from Martha (cpe-69-203-150-215.si.res.rr.com [69.203.150.215]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j4K2ceT5020771 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:38:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Martha Kelly" To: Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 22:38:50 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <200505191801.j4JI0DSW064713@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gloves/no gloves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As of the last time I studied clothing items in these institutions: Costume Institute, Met Museum - white cotton gloves FIT - white cotton gloves MCNY - wash hands carefully, no gloves Half of the private collectors from whom I've borrowed items - no gloves The other half - gloves My own elder garments - clean hands, no gloves Martha _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 19 22:48:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K2mUFJ015618 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:48:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K2lmwQ092419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 20:47:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K2llGI095885; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:47:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K2lirn095788 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 20:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050520024738.FLYC2171.mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:47:38 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([210.86.108.116]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050520024738.EXID4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:47:38 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [266.11.13]); Fri, 20 May 2005 14:47:40 +1200 Message-ID: <007301c55ce6$49fc4470$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050519232400.14208.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I am in fabric dye hell Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:47:39 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I have tried Rit - 3 boxes of the stuff for 3.5 yards > of fabric, and oh yes, it's black, but running all > over the place. I put salt in the dye, I have hit it > with dye stabiliser (G&S calls it Raycafix), with > their equivalent of Synthrapol, regular detergent, > vinegar, warm water, hot water, cold water... and it's > still bleeding. AND... that weird blue is coming > back... its FADING!!! ARGH! I'd keep washing it, I understand RIT is like Dylon in that they are for both animal and plant fibres, meaning there is a lot of dye that has to be washed out. I mean if you are dyeing plant fibres (as you are) all the animal fibre dye is still washing out. I have had success with painting dye in a much more concentration solution. That was on a silk that seemed ot love dye though. And I've had great experience with dying wool on the stove pot (Dylon multipurpose.) People have mentioned how hemp has a structure akin to linen, which I've not had any success in getting a deep colour on. Though I admittedly I haven't actually tried painting dye on it yet, just heavily concentrated shallow baths. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.13 - Release Date: 19/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 00:26:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K4Q7tY016023 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 00:26:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K4PApm000749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 22:25:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K4P7YA062113; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4K4P4hU062020 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 22:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 4538 invoked by uid 60001); 20 May 2005 04:24:58 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=hYtFMjeqkeX0GEVF5xLbFDqTD8+TbsTU0I+dUPzJZPauh1n3w7To8iugMR72mNtaCubitZwR61WN6q1iGbjuew1bymmfz+PphGkz7A+V+bXybP8ua1cNinsogi5ZJsF0yUNQ+WIc0ke1hNwUbKG4au0YqXTocsxFSynp85u+r8E= ; Message-ID: <20050520042458.4536.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.94.79] by web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 19 May 2005 21:24:58 PDT Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 21:24:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire - too sad, lack of costume control reflects attitudes To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Correct Elizabeth, re: the Faire being a joke..... The queen ,She was indeed commenting on the crowd, not costuming wise, but for it's lack of "deportment" while she was "making progress"... actually _NOT_ making progress, as the foul louts would NOT make way for the Queen. She was escorted by a Nobleman,and she was afoot (though _why_ I don't know,as she was in a merchants row) I guess the populace just assumed she was another "nut" dressed up, with her boyfriend yelling "make way for the Queen " to impress his honey. Our Lady Queen is always gracious,but that day just frustrated on the lack of manners. (And as a costume-side bar, the people who DID make way,were the people who cared enough to research and create Elizabethan garb, "playtrons" if you must label them, not guild members, or "Paid actors" just ordinary people. "Zena, Hagar the horrible, lil Miss Pink Pixie", didn't blink an eye or budge a butt. -- Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:42 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renfaire ? Swat that fairy, > ..I'll get the swatter... > > > > > Southern Ren Faire has become a joke....so > sad... > > > even the Queen was over heard to say "this is > > > rediculous" as she made her way thru the crowd. > > > > No, what's ridiculous is a paid entertainer > audibly dissing her audience, > no > > matter how poorly she considers them to be > dressed. If I were management, > > I'd fire her for that. > > > Margo > > > > Actually if the comment was just 'this is > ridiculous' there's no actual > indication that she was commenting on the patrons > clothing. Without being > there and seeing the context I'd be just as likely > to assume that somebody > had forgotten a vital prop or done something else > that made it unnecessarily > difficult for her to do her job (i.e perform as the > Queen). Perhaps Melody > knows something we don't (she was there after all) > but I wouldn't jump to > the conclusion that such a comment had anything to > do with what the patrons > were wearing. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 01:28:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K5S28P016268 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 01:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K5R01T006271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 23:27:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K5QsNh099495; Thu, 19 May 2005 23:26:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K5QoAu099455 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 23:26:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10878 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 23:43:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 23:43:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Speaking of sewing machines... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine (he's a re-enactor, but does not sew) is helping his mother move into an assisted living apartment, which means he is dealing with selling her home and possessions. He's asked me for suggestions on how to sell her Singer 306 sewing machine. He says it "seems to be in very good condition, with its original manual and a bunch of original accessories." Given the recent conversation here, I thought I'd toss that question -- or, if you are in the market, that offer -- out to the group. He's looked on eBay and found similar machines going for about $200, but he isn't eager to deal with packing and shipping. He is in Chicago, and would like to sell locally. So, if you're in or near Chicago and you (1) want to make an offer, or (2) can suggest a costume-related e-mail list or forum specific to the Chicago area where he might post a notice, please e-mail me. Also, if you have experience with this model or any suggestions on pricing, we'd also like to hear from you. Thanks. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 01:40:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4K5e13V016347 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 01:40:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4K5dNUx007155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 19 May 2005 23:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K5dM5N006624; Thu, 19 May 2005 23:39:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4K5dKUp006587 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 23:39:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11021 for ; Thu, 19 May 2005 23:56:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 23:55:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Custom gambeson maker? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone here know someone who can make a good custom gambeson based on a period source? My friend (he of the sewing machine) does swordfighting research and re-enactment (Chicago Swordplay Guild) and wants something authentic to fight in. He's talked to a number of the better-known online vendors and hasn't yet found the right match. He wants someone competent and will pay reasonably for quality, but can't spend a fortune. He's identified a picture of what he's looking for -- a fresco at the castle of Sabbionara at Avio in northern Italy. I think we're talking about 15th or 16th century. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 07:18:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KBIuEu019627 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 07:18:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KBI35k039883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 05:18:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KBHvsR013927; Fri, 20 May 2005 05:17:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KBHpA2013773 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 05:17:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1b9.13e75ff7 (3858) for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 07:17:42 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1b9.13e75ff7.2fbf2156@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 07:17:42 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves/no gloves To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/19/2005 10:39:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marthakelly@nyc.rr.com writes: Costume Institute, Met Museum - white cotton gloves FIT - white cotton gloves MCNY - wash hands carefully, no gloves Half of the private collectors from whom I've borrowed items - no gloves The other half - gloves My own elder garments - clean hands, no gloves And I suppose it goes without saying, but I will say it anyway--if no gloves, remove watches and rings. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 08:38:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KCc41N020492 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:38:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KCb45c057800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 06:37:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KCb13U063597; Fri, 20 May 2005 06:37:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from relay01.mail-hub.dodo.com.au (relay01.mail-hub.dodo.com.au [203.220.32.149]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KCavhv063564 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 06:36:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from angharad@dodo.com.au) Received: from [203.220.100.55] (helo=GILGAMESH) by relay01.mail-hub.dodo.com.au with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1DZ6kJ-0007lh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 May 2005 22:36:56 +1000 Message-ID: <000201c55d38$aa198c80$3764dccb@GILGAMESH> From: "Purple Elephant" To: References: <200505151800.j4FI0DnZ091687@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 20:07:33 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0520-3, 19/05/2005), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 321 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 12:22:11 +0000 > From: "Laura Waack" > Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House / Frontier House > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > there wouldn't be as much drama.' Our biggest complaint with the shows is > how NO ONE stayed in period dress. If they were uncomfortable, they just > took it off. How many of our pioneer grandmas really did that? > > But just trying it and finding out stuff would be SO INTERESTING. That irritates me too - it was a similar story here with 'The Colony' set in early 19th century New South Wales. One of the women actually cut up her dress and made shorts out of it. However I do have an example - not quite working class - but in 'The Cut of Women's Clothes' (I think) there's a quote from an woman who was young in late Edwardian times and wore low necked dresses because she couldn't bear the boned high collars. Claire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 08:39:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KCdRau020572 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KCcdvV057889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 06:38:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KCccJB064657; Fri, 20 May 2005 06:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail14.mdx.safepages.com (mail14.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KCcaEO064621 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 06:38:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 369D31ECCE3; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:38:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.9.28.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.9.28]) by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 249FA1ECC8D for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:38:37 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <0ba401c55d39$05af9800$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050519232400.14208.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> <007301c55ce6$49fc4470$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] I am in fabric dye hell Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 07:39:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try adding a dark brown to the mix next time you tackle it--that should at least help you get into dark grey territory, rather than blue. -E House (who has incidentally sworn off trying to dye silk black.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 09:52:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KDqvCP021846 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 09:52:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KDq29u064652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 07:52:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KDpwox016921; Fri, 20 May 2005 07:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KDUpBL000698 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 07:30:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.45.288c0cf5 (4592) for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 09:30:42 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <45.288c0cf5.2fbf4082@aol.com> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 09:30:42 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A comment on our passion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thought you might like to read this from Robin Givhan, the fashion editor of the Washington Post. She often gets on my nerves for various things, and I thought this was more of the same. But, read on--at least she also pokes fun at fashionistas at the end. _http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/19/AR20050519018 77.html?sub=AR_ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/19/AR2005051901877.html?sub=AR) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 10:23:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KENLFP022002 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 10:23:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KEMK1n067920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 08:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KEMHAb040639; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:22:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52708.mail.yahoo.com (web52708.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4KEMDqs040527 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sorepaws@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 38231 invoked by uid 60001); 20 May 2005 14:22:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=uevDMHVPyUap/bAwOyl5/BEmebQJQQSMUDl++UUgpZHzi8sn1R8U4wdKiuc6Brxkh+n9T7GTZUbnpsUPA3zvVa73WfX78hxjmL/FhelJicemXWhSuwvIpiYWkGJovOUZ/GCp7KQjRXzKQzoNGauwM3qMzzH31trfoSis4ZtXfHE= ; Message-ID: <20050520142208.38229.qmail@web52708.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.136.15.158] by web52708.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 20 May 2005 07:22:08 PDT Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 07:22:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200505201348.j4KDm4Fn013881@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric & more (Off Topic - Please forgive?) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there .. sorry I had fallen off the earth and have not really participated much in the list but a lot of stuff has been happening that made it really difficult to be social .. forgive me? That being said, I am coming out of lurking to say hello and to ask if anyone would be interested in purchasing fancy costuming and upholstery fabric, costuming, or various other SCA bits and pieces like leather, fur, feast gear, and other trinkets. I just found out I have to get reconstructive surgery in about 1.5 months (which is also about the rough timeline for me to find a new place and move) so I am trying to cull down what stuff (and how MUCH!!) I will need to move at the same time as trying to finance some of this without touching a meager savings ... Will be photographing and measuring the fabric and other bits in the next week or so, so if there is any interest, please let me know. Since I am local (West Bloomfield, MI) to some of you, anyone wanting to take a look at all this in person can drop me a note and we can try to arrange a time. Alternately I can try to arrange a day where it will be "open house" (ok, open garage .. since my family would have a fit if I did this in the house they are trying to clean up and sell)and let you know where and when. Ideally I would like to reduce the "stock" by at least half before doing that though... any thoughts? This may be a good time to stock up for projects pre-pennsic / Faire / The fall holidays !! I am set up with paypal so shipping would not be an issue either - and there are about 6 huge bins of fabric (mostly tapestry, upholstery, brocade, cottons, some velvets, and random odds and ends and even have a ton of corset boning!!) and some trim that will be up for grabs .. PLUS about 4 bins of leather, cut out fabrics and patterns for partially started/finished projects, and a huge pile of rennie type garb in size medium/large/XL women's ..) At some point what doesn't sell online will be put up at a garage sale but would prefer to not simply "give" it away for pennies since I'm not really in a position to do so .. Sorry if that makes me sound "greedy" but I am looking at about 2k for the surgery alone (NOT covered by insurance) plus losing time off work, so anything I can "earn" ahead of time to fill that gap would be a blessing. Thanks for listening and allowing this. Its not meant as solicitation but rather a chance for people to get first dibs on a pretty nice stash that would be great for costuming while helping out a fellow fabric monger out! Please feel free to cross post. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 10:40:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KEe8Mj022120 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 10:40:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KEdOUm070098 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 08:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KEdNim054746; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:39:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net (pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net [207.217.121.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KEdJWT054688 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:39:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DZ8el-0003yI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 May 2005 07:39:19 -0700 Message-ID: <428DF69A.8010207@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 07:39:22 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric & more (Off Topic - Please forgive?) References: <20050520142208.38229.qmail@web52708.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050520142208.38229.qmail@web52708.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shall we assume online on Ebay? (I may have missed an earlier post...) Thanks and the best of Luck! Sg > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 10:47:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KEleg7022166 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 10:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KEl03V071089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 08:47:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KEkwXA061274; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:46:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f1.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KEkt6t061165 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 08:46:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 May 2005 07:46:49 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.206 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:46:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.206] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 00:46:49 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2005 14:46:49.0934 (UTC) FILETIME=[C12556E0:01C55D4A] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >So, to me, saying that some of the Haithabu/Hedeby scraps are similar to >the Thorbjerg trousers, therefore the Thorsbjerg trousers must be the >pattern for all Scandinavian trousers for a thousand year period just seems >a bit iffy. Sorry, where did I say that the Thorsberg pattern "must be the only one for all Scandinavian trousers"? Did I really say that like this? If I really said that somewhere, I am sorry, cause that's definitely not what I meant. And I seem to remember that I mentioned there were other fragments (in the same excavation) where a pattern couldn't be established, therefore making it very likely that it wasn't the only one.... All I wanted to say was that the remains that there are, show (in my opinion) without much doubt that one pair of trousers found in Viking age context followed the same pattern as known from the Thorsberg find. The only issue I had was with "I don't think that a scrap of this size and form allows the conclusion XYZ".... the pieces in context are hard to deny. Cheers, Caithlinn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 13:26:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KHQMva023366 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:26:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KHN67a092951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 11:23:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KHMv7j008909; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KHMpdr008823 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:22:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25462 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:22:51 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Auction of Denise Poiret's collection & Film Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:22:49 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Auction of Denise Poiret's collection & Film Thread-Index: AcVcvmKJATdbQhCGR7+Yy5QgDgYa9QAn2QHQ From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4KHMpdr008823 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm hoping someone published an auction catalog with pictures. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Fran(and anyone else interested in Poiret): According to an online article by Suzy Menkes, there is an exibition catalogue entitled "La Creation en Liberte" The auction house was Piasa Paris-Druot Richelieu. I couldn't find a web site and Amazon.fr turned up rien about the catalogue. Hopefully, a museum like the Met, LACMA, or Kyoto Costume scored most of the 600+ items, or at least enough to do a book and/or exibition in the future. Poiret, even though he died in debt and lived on a small pension, should be given back the credit for really being the first designer to branch out into Poiret as a life-style, adding shoes, accessories, perfume, and the whole lifestyle "Poiret" from dinnerware to furniture. He also hired and trained orphan girls to work in his atelier and was a mover and shaker behind the movement for better salaries, benefits and working conditions for the many poorly-paid jobs in the fashion industry done by women and girls. Unfortunately World War I and the economic aftermath did almost as much as Poiret's love of bright colors, extravagant patterning and rich detail in a post-war world that was embrasing a simplier look(that actually evolved from Poiret's pre 1911 designs)and cheap mass-marketing. Poiret loved drama, but his clientele wanted a less is more look and lifestyle. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:04:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KI44iN023709 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:04:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KI3DoU099268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:03:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KI389e046395; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:03:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KI33SA046246 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:03:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 037531800234 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 18:02:58 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 20 May 2005 18:02:57 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 95755E5BC7; Fri, 20 May 2005 18:02:57 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.6; A1.17; B2.12; Q2.03) Received: from [149.169.241.203] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:02:57 -0500 X-Mailer: mail.lycos.com webmail From: "Katie Lewis" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:02:57 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.241.203 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050520180257.95755E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4KI33SA046246 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need about 5 yards of cotton organza, and can't seem to find it locally or online. Any leads will be appriciated. I'm in the US, and prefer not to have it shipped in from overseas. thanks, Katie -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:12:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KICj2h024056 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KIBptd000389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:11:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIBmB9053540; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:11:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIBawr053357 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from arkham.cornell.edu (vcs077.vet.cornell.edu [128.253.111.77]) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j4KIBSt8003643 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:11:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050520140908.00c4c5d8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:11:37 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza In-Reply-To: <20050520180257.95755E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try "The Cotton Boll" in Chapel Hill, NC or "Mulberry Silks" also in Chapel Hill, NC. Great stores - if they are still around. Then there's a host of places in NY, on 67th(?) street - drat or is that 46th(?)... either way - fashion district. I've never bothered to learn names, I just mosey from store to store when I manage to get there. Bridgette >I need about 5 yards of cotton organza, and can't seem to find it locally >or online. Any leads will be appriciated. I'm in the US, and prefer not >to have it shipped in from overseas. > >thanks, >Katie webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:27:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KIRIdr024542 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:27:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KIKdqo001632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:20:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIKYrG061665; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:20:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fed1rmmtao01.cox.net (fed1rmmtao01.cox.net [68.230.241.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIISgW059626 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:18:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mudsleidi@cox.net) Received: from smtp.west.cox.net ([172.18.180.53]) by fed1rmmtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with SMTP id <20050520181817.XOMW7629.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:18:17 -0400 X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.15 (webedge20-101-1103-20040528) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:18:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20050520181817.XOMW7629.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If cotton organdy will do, this place has some lovely fabrics: http://www.baltazor.com/organdy.html I have had two satisfactory transactions with them. Heidi E. ============================================================ From: M Stewart Date: 2005/05/20 Fri PM 02:11:37 EDT To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza Try "The Cotton Boll" in Chapel Hill, NC or "Mulberry Silks" also in Chapel Hill, NC. Great stores - if they are still around. Then there's a host of places in NY, on 67th(?) street - drat or is that 46th(?)... either way - fashion district. I've never bothered to learn names, I just mosey from store to store when I manage to get there. Bridgette >I need about 5 yards of cotton organza, and can't seem to find it locally >or online. Any leads will be appriciated. I'm in the US, and prefer not >to have it shipped in from overseas. > >thanks, >Katie webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ============================================================ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:29:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KISxah024555 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:29:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KIRZrT002502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIRVc8067622; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:27:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIRQgE067526 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:27:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17524 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:44:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 12:44:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza In-Reply-To: <20050520181817.XOMW7629.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 20 May 2005 mudsleidi@cox.net wrote: > If cotton organdy will do, this place has some lovely fabrics: > http://www.baltazor.com/organdy.html Organdy and organza are very different! I made that mistake once. Vogue Fabrics in Chicago should carry both as regular stock, though I don't know whether it would be cotton; usually organza is silk. Try www.myvoguefabrics.com, and if they don't have it, call them and ask, because not everything is on the website. You can also try G street in Rockville, Maryland. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:29:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KITRL0024560 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:29:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KIMcME001911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:22:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIMaW8063391; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:22:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIMVbv063191 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:22:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so2179001wra for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:22:25 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=RZJGrKbo70dS7o0HyZNEseF++Rk9QpObfs9SKWFeGd+M+c258wjMmM68vrcl+Kx3waoFiBB4Fz07OZH5zqND6OATf9qo7NlrQ8h5HY5jveU6l01W7/7fyyk1OOJhwNTd8I7loIOWK66bCqTi5kMLWvkJeKrt1towKX9i9tzsLi0= Received: by 10.54.33.73 with SMTP id g73mr1223081wrg; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0505201122397787e7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 11:22:25 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050520140908.00c4c5d8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050520180257.95755E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> <5.2.1.1.2.20050520140908.00c4c5d8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4KIMVbv063191 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Farthingale in Canada has cotton organdy: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/home.htm I have purchased cotton organdy or organza at Britex in the past - can-t remember which. Nice and stiff, sheer and elegant. http://www.britexfabrics.com/ Poppy Fabrics in Oakland, CA has had it in the past also, but they've got new buyers and I never know what will be there. http:// www.poppyfabric.com surprisingly, Dharma doesn't carry it by name, but they do have lots of sheer or semi-sheer cottons. I'm sure if you did a web search for french sewing, one of those stores would certainly carry it. Best of luck, LynnD On 5/20/05, M Stewart wrote: > > Try "The Cotton Boll" in Chapel Hill, NC or "Mulberry Silks" also in > Chapel Hill, NC. Great stores - if they are still around. > Then there's a host of places in NY, on 67th(?) street - drat or is that > 46th(?)... either way - fashion district. I've never bothered to learn > names, I just mosey from store to store when I manage to get there. > > Bridgette > > > > >I need about 5 yards of cotton organza, and can't seem to find it locally > >or online. Any leads will be appriciated. I'm in the US, and prefer not > >to have it shipped in from overseas. > > > >thanks, > >Katie > > webmaster@vet.cornell.edu > > > Mari Stewart > College of Veterinary Medicine > Cornell University > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:29:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KITscE024567 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:29:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KITAwQ002680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIT8CN068949; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:29:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f40.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIT2Ma068780 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:28:56 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.213 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 20 May 2005 18:28:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.213] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505201801.j4KI07ZB043681@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 13:28:56 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2005 18:28:56.0688 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8829F00:01C55D69] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "C M" > >So, to me, saying that some of the Haithabu/Hedeby scraps are similar to > >the Thorbjerg trousers, therefore the Thorsbjerg trousers must be the > >pattern for all Scandinavian trousers for a thousand year period just >seems > >a bit iffy. >Sorry, where did I say that the Thorsberg pattern "must be the only one for >all Scandinavian trousers"? Did I really say that like this? If I really >said that somewhere, I am sorry, cause that's definitely not what I meant. >And I seem to remember that I mentioned there were other fragments (in the >same excavation) where a pattern couldn't be established, therefore making >it very likely that it wasn't the only one.... If there are other fragments and a pattern can't be established, how do you know they are trouser fragments? You didn't say those exact words -- however, that is the implication of USING the Thjorsberg pattern centuries after it was KNOWN to have been used, just because it's similar to some scraps found elsewhere. I apologize if this seems a bit strident, or for that matter, even focused at you individually -- whenever "Viking" trousers come up it seems that the Thjorsberg garments get drug out and shown as the example of what is known, when in fact it -isn't- known. It's a supposition, an opinion. And I've gotten a little frustrated by this over the past few years (honestly, the last straw was their use in a design from a museum in Sweden - as though there was actually solid evidence to support it). So if I seem to be attacking I'm not meaning to, and I apologize for coming across like I am. >All I wanted to say was that the remains that there are, show (in my >opinion) without much doubt that one pair of trousers found in Viking age >context followed the same pattern as known from the Thorsberg find. The >only >issue I had was with "I don't think that a scrap of this size and form >allows the conclusion XYZ".... the pieces in context are hard to deny. I've got the book on order again, since I can't find my files on them, and i'll take another look. I've done a lot more looking at trouser designs since the last time I saw it and I may see something new. "Pieces in context"? I didn't realize they were found on a body :) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:30:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KIUaIu024578 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KITiHb002744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:29:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KITcCG069342; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:29:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KITNvr069133 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:29:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from generys@blazemail.com) Received: from pmta02.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F004017F for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:29:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQBKBEVCjiyCw+q3AwIAAAAB,c0685dce84e386a162848448dd131c64 Received: from marketing3 (69.38.51.209 [69.38.51.209]) by pmta02.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY) with ESMTP id 4EA8D751 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:29:22 -0700 From: "Jennifer / Guenievre" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 14:28:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050520140908.00c4c5d8@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcVdZ3oDOKg894bATEOZGgQuMOMFmAAAeAsw Message-Id: <20050520182922.18F004017F@omta16.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4KITNvr069133 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, both stores are still there, and still wonderful places. Cotton Boll is online here - http://www.thecottonboll.com/ and Mulberry Silks phone number is (919) 942-7455. I haven't been over to either of them recently, though, so I can't say whether they have cotton organza right now... Gueničvre > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of M Stewart > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 2:12 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza > > > Try "The Cotton Boll" in Chapel Hill, NC or "Mulberry Silks" also in > Chapel Hill, NC. Great stores - if they are still around. > Then there's a host of places in NY, on 67th(?) street - drat or is that > 46th(?)... either way - fashion district. I've never bothered to learn > names, I just mosey from store to store when I manage to get there. > > Bridgette > > > > >I need about 5 yards of cotton organza, and can't seem to find it locally > >or online. Any leads will be appriciated. I'm in the US, and prefer not > >to have it shipped in from overseas. > > > >thanks, > >Katie > > webmaster@vet.cornell.edu > > > Mari Stewart > College of Veterinary Medicine > Cornell University > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 14:40:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KIeaiH024641 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:40:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KIdkOH003943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 12:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIdjVI078347; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KIdfxq078269 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 12:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from someone@eskimo.com) Received: from pamscomputer (c-67-183-235-191.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [67.183.235.191]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j4KIdakq002868 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 11:39:36 -0700 Message-ID: <006e01c55d6b$4a307260$0202a8c0@pamscomputer> From: "Pam and David Dotson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050520180257.95755E5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 11:39:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Martha Pullen's web site says she has it at: http://store.marthapullen.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=2678&category_id=5dfef33a32285824bae67e6af79000a8 Pam Dotson Everett, WA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Lewis" To: Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:02 AM Subject: [h-cost] Need source for cotton organza > > I need about 5 yards of cotton organza, and can't seem to find it locally > or online. Any leads will be appriciated. I'm in the US, and prefer not > to have it shipped in from overseas. > > thanks, > Katie > > -- > _______________________________________________ > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites > at once. > http://datingsearch.lycos.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 16:46:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KKjwCB025679 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 16:45:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KKidEd018070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 14:44:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KKiXAX088702; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:44:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-dav15.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.189]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KKiTLq088560 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:44:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 20 May 2005 13:44:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 141.152.153.173 by BAY10-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 20 May 2005 20:44:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [141.152.153.173] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050520142208.38229.qmail@web52708.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric & more (Off Topic - Please forgive?) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:44:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:44:20 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 May 2005 20:44:23.0738 (UTC) FILETIME=[B49C09A0:01C55D7C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4KKjwCB025679 Status: RO I'm interested, but I shouldn't buy Any More Fabric. That token protest having been made, I would be interested in corset boning, and any linens or wools you might have. Please feel free to contact me off list for further discussion. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lil Sorepaws To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:22 AM Subject: [h-cost] Fabric & more (Off Topic - Please forgive?) Hi there .. sorry I had fallen off the earth and have not really participated much in the list but a lot of stuff has been happening that made it really difficult to be social .. forgive me? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 16:59:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4KKxZMb025775 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 16:59:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4KKwgV1020081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 14:58:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KKwdeI000781; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4KKwYLh000720 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 14:58:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cahuff@mindspring.com) Received: from user-38lcjl7.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.78.167] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DZEZl-0003F9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 May 2005 16:58:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200505201348.j4KDm4Fn013881@net.indra.com> References: <200505201348.j4KDm4Fn013881@net.indra.com> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 16:58:28 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: fastusminimus Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Serger hunt... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi For those that are interested, JoAnn's el cheapo White serger seems like a decent little beast. It finishes edges and does a rolled hem. Also has a diffential feed for gathers. At $199, it is just a bit more than the estimate to just clean and lube and check the old beast out (Note: I'll be looking for another service center for it...) So if you just need a serger for now and then, this seems a decent deal... We'll see how happy I am after doing curtains and some cloth bags... Ta Carol -- Creative Clutter is Better Than Idle Neatness! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 20 20:06:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4L06ssU027068 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 20:06:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4L05gbC041436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 18:05:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L05T8p048906; Fri, 20 May 2005 18:05:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L05Qcf048858 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 18:05:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m116.in-tch.com [216.166.191.116]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4L00f022465 for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 18:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <428E7C97.8040505@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 18:11:03 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A comment on our passion References: <45.288c0cf5.2fbf4082@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <45.288c0cf5.2fbf4082@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Boy, she sure seems to think a lot of herself, and her oh-so-arch wit! --sue, glad to live in a state where the governor's not afraid to wear jeans like most of his constituents (MT), and who can't decide if she wants to work on a Harry Potter outfit, or a 10th c. Norse outfit...this weekend ;o) AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > Thought you might like to read this from Robin Givhan, the fashion editor of > the Washington Post. She often gets on my nerves for various things, and I > thought this was more of the same. But, read on--at least she also pokes fun > at fashionistas at the end. > > _http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/19/AR20050519018 > 77.html?sub=AR_ > (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/19/AR2005051901877.html?sub=AR) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 21 00:00:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4L400Ng029104 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:00:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4L3wweQ061291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 May 2005 21:58:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L3wsWx093584; Fri, 20 May 2005 21:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L3wfBm093351 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 20 May 2005 21:58:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4L5HU6G022407 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 01:17:34 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trousers Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 23:58:30 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505202358.30804.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 20 May 2005 2:28 pm, Marc Carlson wrote: [snip] > You didn't say those exact words -- however, that is the implication of > USING the Thjorsberg pattern centuries after it was KNOWN to have been > used, just because it's similar to some scraps found elsewhere. I > apologize if this seems a bit strident, or for that matter, even focused at > you individually -- whenever "Viking" trousers come up it seems that the > Thjorsberg garments get drug out and shown as the example of what is known, > when in fact it -isn't- known. It's a supposition, an opinion. What's supposition, of course, is just how commonly trousers cut similarly to the Thjorsberg trousers were, either during the period to which they've been (approximately dated) or any other period. We know the Thjorsberg trousers themselves exist because we have them. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 21 02:24:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4L6OF3d001984 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 02:24:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4L6M9rV071806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 May 2005 00:22:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L6M5G3076291; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:22:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L6M3Io076250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:22:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:46185 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DZNN3-0002bR-Mx for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 May 2005 02:22:02 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.94 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Sat, 21 May 2005 02:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2386.198.93.211.94.1116656522.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 02:22:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Speaking of sewing machines... From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.94 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What about the Vintage singer list on Yahoo? let's see, here is the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vintagesingers/ They don't allow sales on the list but they have a for sale data base in the data base section. Also ISMACS which allows sellers to post to their list on weekends would be a good venue as well. their URL is ismacs.net, I think. All these are people who love, respect, collect and often Use vintage singers and other machines. you have to join each list to post to the group, but it is a good way to let people know you have something of interest. Kitty > > A friend of mine (he's a re-enactor, but does not sew) is helping his > mother move into an assisted living apartment, which means he is dealing > with selling her home and possessions. He's asked me for suggestions on > how to sell her Singer 306 sewing machine. He says it "seems to be in > very good condition, with its original manual and a bunch of original > accessories." > > Given the recent conversation here, I thought I'd toss that question -- > or, if you are in the market, that offer -- out to the group. > > He's looked on eBay and found similar machines going for about $200, but > he isn't eager to deal with packing and shipping. He is in Chicago, and > would like to sell locally. > > So, if you're in or near Chicago and you (1) want to make an offer, or > (2) can suggest a costume-related e-mail list or forum specific to the > Chicago area where he might post a notice, please e-mail me. Also, if > you have experience with this model or any suggestions on pricing, we'd > also like to hear from you. Thanks. > > --Robin > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 21 02:35:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4L6ZNq9003995 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 02:35:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4L6YM36072623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 May 2005 00:34:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L6YLQV083725; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:34:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4L6YH2S083684 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 00:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j4L6YDoY008375 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 01:34:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050521011723.02bb49c0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 01:19:38 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] white gloves In-Reply-To: <000c01c55c7b$693c00c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It completely depends on the museum. Some current scholarship suggests that it is actually better to use freshly washed *bare* hands than old white cotton gloves, less contamination. However, the V&A textiles department used the disposable, non-powdered, purple surgical gloves when I was last there two years ago. The Museum of London, still used the white gloves, and the Minneapolis Institute of Arts uses washed bare hands. Cheers, Danielle At 10:02 AM 5/19/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Question for those of you who do the museum scene. >What is the current attitude/scholarship regarding the use/necessity of >wearing museum gloves when handling artifacts in your venues? > >Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 21 08:22:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4LCMhfd001508 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 08:22:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4LCLbI1006388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 May 2005 06:21:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4LCLTim079928; Sat, 21 May 2005 06:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4LCLQgW079879 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 06:21:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.89.2767ae0a (17079) for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 08:21:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <89.2767ae0a.2fc081ba@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 08:21:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Custom gambeson maker? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I make custom gambies and assorted other padding to whatever design you like, but as I'm in the UK the shipping may be prohibitive (although I do have some customers in California who came to me cos they said they just couldn't find them in the states). That said, you could direct him to the Arador Armoury site, or to the Armour Archive (both are discussion forums, and although I don't have the urls to hand they come up if you google/yahoo them). Asking on them might be worth a shot. Debbie (But feel free to pass on my e-mail if he wants info or if he can't find the sites.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 21 13:14:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4LHEhOD003774 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 13:14:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4LHDqJi024922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 May 2005 11:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4LHDkEV050792; Sat, 21 May 2005 11:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web42110.mail.yahoo.com (web42110.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.219]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4LHDixR050730 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 11:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 78340 invoked by uid 60001); 21 May 2005 17:13:38 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=muoLsdmaEqKyLx9nVv4AUNDieJMFxJ2AftMcmnHwKGlFkl5OVcc0gLbMKhTGUag+JJXWMdJ3OUxkFHrBltGn/0JS5l3yYsDm7fAtKerQvK9mBJQbdRjKjBt1vBGPO3bjZ/JSEhry68QbU0z2bj4ES52kBwvi865KLOOJjXJFpgY= ; Message-ID: <20050521171338.78338.qmail@web42110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.33.211.118] by web42110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 21 May 2005 10:13:38 PDT Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 10:13:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Renfaire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I work seasonally at Tuacahn Center for the Preforming Arts (in St. George, UT; Cedar City is just up the road from us and hosts the Utah Shakespere Festival) as a stitcher. But some days, life just says "Costume Day" to me and I go with it. I would never dress inappropriately for a event. I try for as close to accurate as possible to the event theme. --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 21 14:25:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4LIP7hH004299 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 14:25:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4LIO8Tm029926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 May 2005 12:24:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4LIO6BN091858; Sat, 21 May 2005 12:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f28.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4LIO3Qv091782 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 12:24:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 May 2005 11:23:58 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.189 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 21 May 2005 18:23:58 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.189] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505210634.j4L6YMSp083757@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 13:23:58 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2005 18:23:58.0370 (UTC) FILETIME=[411CA820:01C55E32] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond >>you individually -- whenever "Viking" trousers come up it seems that the >>Thjorsberg garments get drug out and shown as the example of what is >>known, >>when in fact it -isn't- known. It's a supposition, an opinion. >What's supposition, of course, is just how commonly trousers cut similarly >to >the Thjorsberg trousers were, either during the period to which they've >been >(approximately dated) or any other period. We know the Thjorsberg trousers >themselves exist because we have them. Certainly, and if someone were doing a reproduction of the Thorsbjerg outfit, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that they follow that design. However, what is being suggested is that they use the Thorsbjerg to reproduce something for which we have no actual evidence. It may be correct, or it may be as wrong as suggesting that someone, say, use a Ford Model A as a design pattern for a 2003 Malibu. Yes there will be some things done correctly, like the presence of 4 wheels, but I'm thinking some of the details -may- be wrong. Now, granted, if that's all you have, you work with what you have, but you need to be sure to make it clear that this is what it -might- be like based on what you have, but it's probably not. The use of phrases like "identical to" and "virtually identical to" could conceivably give a false sense of security about the garment’s supposed accuracy to someone who hasn’t done as much research as others. That’s all I’m saying. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 21 17:25:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4LLP3Yw006195 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 17:25:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4LLNtj3041774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 21 May 2005 15:23:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4LLNmIi096483; Sat, 21 May 2005 15:23:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4LLNbbo096282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 15:23:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4LMgYaD006041 for ; Sat, 21 May 2005 18:42:34 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: trousers Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 17:23:30 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505211723.30831.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 21 May 2005 2:23 pm, Marc Carlson wrote: > >From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [snip] > >What's supposition, of course, is just how commonly trousers cut similarly > >to > >the Thjorsberg trousers were, either during the period to which they've > >been > >(approximately dated) or any other period. We know the Thjorsberg > > trousers themselves exist because we have them. > > Certainly, and if someone were doing a reproduction of the Thorsbjerg > outfit, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest that they follow that design. > However, what is being suggested is that they use the Thorsbjerg to > reproduce something for which we have no actual evidence. Yes, exactly. What you actually said, though, sounded a bit different from that. Please excuse my pedantry. :-) > It may be > correct, or it may be as wrong as suggesting that someone, say, use a Ford > Model A as a design pattern for a 2003 Malibu. Yes there will be some > things done correctly, like the presence of 4 wheels, but I'm thinking some > of the details -may- be wrong. Now, granted, if that's all you have, you > work with what you have, but you need to be sure to make it clear that this > is what it -might- be like based on what you have, but it's probably not. [snip] Quite. Compleat Anachronist 103 (which discusses possible designs for trousers worn by Gaels) makes it pretty clear that you can have many different designs for trousers that all have two legs, but are both visually and in construction quite different from one another. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 07:48:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MBmeUv025364 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 07:48:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MBl7vR095104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 05:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MBl394076066; Sun, 22 May 2005 05:47:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f5.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MBkx8R075988 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 05:47:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 22 May 2005 04:46:54 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.204 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:46:54 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.204] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 21:46:54 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2005 11:46:54.0584 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3712780:01C55EC3] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, >If there are other fragments and a pattern can't be established, how do you >know they are trouser fragments? Well, mainly because they have belt loops and so far I am not aware of any other pieces of clothing in a Viking context (or better up until a Viking context) with belt loops.... Belt loops because they are attached to waistband-like fragements, those other bits and pieces have been interpreted (and yes, that's just an opinion!) on the grounds of their attachment, which is the same as on the Thorsberg or/and Damendorf trouser finds. But because it's only the waistband, not much else info about the rest of the potential trousers is available. >whenever "Viking" trousers come up it seems that the Thjorsberg garments >get drug out and shown as the example of what is known, when in fact it >-isn't- known. It's a supposition, an opinion. And I've gotten a little >frustrated by this over the past few years (honestly, the last straw was >their use in a design from a museum in Sweden - as though there was >actually solid evidence to support it). So if I seem to be attacking I'm >not meaning to, and I apologize for coming across like I am. I can understand that completely, cause trousers are my sore point as well, but I guess in completely the other direction. I am simply fed up with the large number of "interpreted" trousers in Living History and Reenactment circles I know, which have absolutely no proof whatsoever archaeologically and are still being advertised as "real Viking trousers". I agree that I wouldn't use a reproduction of Thorsberg style trousers in a Swedish display, since it is possible that this style of trouser is a regional affair only, but when it comes to remains of trousers, there's simply not much out there. I guess you either believe that those remains are from trousers (which I do) and then they are vaild evidence that this style was used in Haithabu during the 10th century or you don't and then there is not much else left to reconstruct trousers with a certain degree of accuracy. The Skjoldehamn trousers might be a local pattern as well, and though it is conceiveable that (since it's a simple pattern) it might have been used elsewhere, archaeological evidence there is none (as far as I know...!?). However, since this will probably always be subject for debate, I apologize if I created the impression that the Thorsberg pattern is the only valid one for the entire Viking age. It's (as far as I am concerned) one that we know of (since it was found almost complete centuries before) and of which remains exist that date from the Viking Age context in Haithabu. This doesn't tell us anything about how frequent this pattern was used or if it was used anywhere else, but that is was used at least once and right there, we can be pretty sure. >"Pieces in context"? I didn't realize they were found on a body :) Hm, sorry if I am being thick here (sometimes the English language has very deep secrets that it doesn't reveal to me until someone explains them), but I thought "context" means all the surrounding circumstances, evidence etc, not just implying that it was found on a body? If that's not the case, sorry once more, language barrier here. What I meant was the "context" of the fragments themselves, (not in a placement sense), since they were not found as strictly single pieces, separate from each other without any connection (apart from two) and simply put together cause it looked good and seemed to fit, but they were connected by seams in the strategic places, revealing their interaction with each other in the pattern and thereby allowing the conclusion that they were probably part of trousers. That, plus the experience of the archaeologists (having dealt with that type of scraps before and actually specalising in it) allowed the remaining pieces to be put into context with the first lot (again?) and determined even more of the pattern. But that said, I guess this is not a case of convincing anyone, for me it's pretty clear, for others it doesn't seem to be, so that's everbody's own decision. Cheers, Caithlinn P.S. I don't want to be presumptious, but if you'd like help with translating text from the book, I'm happy to help. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 08:27:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MCRXn0025644 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 08:27:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MCQhl2096859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 06:26:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MCQg6S097898; Sun, 22 May 2005 06:26:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4MCQcTu097841 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 06:26:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 30911 invoked from network); 22 May 2005 12:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.6.117) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 22 May 2005 12:26:37 -0000 Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 22:33:14 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for source of "plush" cotton velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I'm looking for an online source for the plush stuff with a decent pile, not the cheap stuff I can get here, but yet again, I don't want it too expensive either. And does anyone know how to keep it from catching all the bits of dirt and fluff it passes? Also, silk velvet - is it mostly polyester? Thanks, Aylwen Garden _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 12:23:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MGNR3v027041 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 12:23:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MGMIPe031207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 10:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MGMETR036130; Sun, 22 May 2005 10:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MGMB3t036079 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 10:22:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m37.in-tch.com [216.166.191.37]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4MGHP018501 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 10:17:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4290B304.9040100@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 10:27:48 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for source of "plush" cotton velvet References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rayon. So-called, commercially-available "silk velvet" is generally mostly rayon. As far as I understand it, the "silk" part is the ground fabric, and the pile is rayon. I've read a couple of articles that at least suggested that this is done to allow artisans, textile workers, what-have-you, to further embellish the fabric with various techniques that "burn away" the pile, exposing the background. (The silk and rayon, being two different types of fiber, react to the processes differently). The rayon/silk velvets always look and feel to me like rayon, and not silk (which I've also seen, but not been lucky enough to own, darn it!). The examples I've personally seen of *historical* silk velvets reminded me of a modern cotton velveteen in the density of the pile, although a little longer? higher?, but still, after several centuries, with a shine and glow I've only ever seen come from silk (perhaps because the silk threads were thrown, rather than spun?). And the types of weave for the backgrounds vary, as well--I've seen plainer weaves, and satins. Must have been astonishing when new, instead of this precious, little scrap in an art museum! When you talk about "plush" stuff vs. "cheap," are you thinking, perhaps, more in terms of upholstery velvets, rather than ones made for clothing? I've found some reasonably good cotton upholstery velvets at mill-ends type stores here in the U.S. They're pretty heavy, though, so I'm saving them for costumes in which the weight is appropriate. I guess it depends on what all you're wanting to make! ;-D --sue Aylwen & John wrote: > Hi, I'm looking for an online source for the plush stuff with a decent > pile, not the cheap stuff I can get here, but yet again, I don't want it > too expensive either. And does anyone know how to keep it from catching > all the bits of dirt and fluff it passes? > Also, silk velvet - is it mostly polyester? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 13:11:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MHBLmO027692 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:11:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MHAG7n034553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 11:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MHAFT0066392; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MHABsU066330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:10:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MITCc7028335 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 14:29:12 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for source of "plush" cotton velvet Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 13:10:05 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505221310.05155.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 22 May 2005 8:33 am, Aylwen & John wrote: > Hi, I'm looking for an online source for the plush stuff with a decent > pile, not the cheap stuff I can get here, but yet again, I don't want > it too expensive either. Try denverfabrics.com (the cotton velvets, not the velveteens). > And does anyone know how to keep it from > catching all the bits of dirt and fluff it passes? Nope. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 13:28:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MHSpIA027848 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:28:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MHRdip036010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 11:27:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MHRbZL077619; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MHRXe5077568 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) X-ORBL: [69.107.73.172] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-73-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.73.172]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4MHRScj252430 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:27:32 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050522102548.025ea5d8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 10:27:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for source of "plush" cotton velvet In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hi, I'm looking for an online source for the plush stuff with a decent >pile, not the cheap stuff I can get here, but yet again, I don't want it >too expensive either. Talk to teddy-bear makers. They use real woven-back plush, not knit-back fake fur, for very small bears. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 13:47:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MHlhL5028015 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MHkkDg038855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 11:46:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MHkiZe092572; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:46:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4MHkemI092454 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:46:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2005 17:46:34 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050522183655.014d9328@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 18:44:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050522102548.025ea5d8@mail.frys.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Slightly O.T. Hunnisett query and Teddy update X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was at a study day yesterday and saw Teddy, who was busily sewing away at his terracotta damask doublet for Kentwell. He looked well, and was quite busy, hence the sewing at the meeting, which was about narrow wares, fingerlooping and so on. Not actually as informative as I would have liked, being a complete ignoramus as far as those arts are concerned. However, in the course of conversation I mentioned that Jean Hunnisett had had some different ideas about ruffs (we were talking about some ruffs I just made for a new film on Elizabeth l). Teddy said that he thought he remembered a conversation with someone from this list who had met Jean while she was in the U.S. and they had talked about ruffs. Please, if it is you, could you contact me - I would love to know what she said, as I have a part of the story, and not the rest!! Suzi http://www.suziclarke.co.uk/viewimage.php?image=/pile-of-ruffs-for-angels.jpg (Some of the ruffs.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 14:22:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MIMZQd028330 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 14:22:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MIL5oi041468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 12:21:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MIL4WO015991; Sun, 22 May 2005 12:21:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4MIL0F1015914 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 12:21:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBKBVMFA4H2LCA for (sender ); Sun, 22 May 2005 11:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn74EeD3Olu+/9nHoAnCT+qaYH14rGKTNotQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KTMG6G2S; Sun, 22 May 2005 11:19:30 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 13:16:37 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly O.T. Hunnisett query and Teddy update Message-ID: <20050522.131638.-113426399.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,18-27,29-57,60-69 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 23:11:1008106288 X-MAIL-INFO: 5e34d1e449696189492d81e95975590d49f0b0f0b1a1a925dd35b10c5440a90c11409454f531a1cd7dfd7d6485e4648510c9851095a1391d5090f9141d94b060f9f494746ddd94c4c5d1cd04cdb919105585cdc9 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Suzi- Teddy might have been talking about me, but I think there are others on the list who went to Jean's ruff making seminars as well. Jean's theory was that the ruffs weren't pleated to bands as you have done (and as most people do them) but were actually just strips of fabric closely gathered and then shaped into the pleats.....hmmmm....that's really not a very good description....I'll try again...... Instead of using a neck band- you should just take the long strip of fabric/lace that will become the ruff and take small pleating stitches along the inner edge. Then pull the gathering thread to the circumference of the neck and carefully form the gathers into the type of pleats you want to have- singles, figure eights, etc. Using pins to hold it in shape is both useful and decorative if they have glass beads or pearls on the heads. This method means that the ruff can perch on top of the high doublet collars of the period without cutting into your lower jaw because the inner edge is quite narrow but the outer edge is full. Was that a better description? Karen Seamstrix On Sun, 22 May 2005 18:44:37 +0100 Suzi Clarke writes: > > I was at a study day yesterday and saw Teddy, who was busily sewing > away at > his terracotta damask doublet for Kentwell. He looked well, and was > quite > busy, hence the sewing at the meeting, which was about narrow wares, > > fingerlooping and so on. Not actually as informative as I would have > > liked, being a complete ignoramus as far as those arts are > concerned. > > However, in the course of conversation I mentioned that Jean > Hunnisett had > had some different ideas about ruffs (we were talking about some > ruffs I > just made for a new film on Elizabeth l). Teddy said that he thought > he > remembered a conversation with someone from this list who had met > Jean > while she was in the U.S. and they had talked about ruffs. Please, > if it is > you, could you contact me - I would love to know what she said, as I > have a > part of the story, and not the rest!! > > Suzi > > http://www.suziclarke.co.uk/viewimage.php?image=/pile-of-ruffs-for-angels .jpg > > (Some of the ruffs.) > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 15:17:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MJHQUW028728 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 15:17:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MJGW63045094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 13:16:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MJGSCH051912; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MJGP1B051885 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-73-172.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.73.172]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4MJFdwc020028 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 15:15:42 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050522120857.0274c300@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 12:11:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly O.T. Hunnisett query and Teddy update In-Reply-To: <20050522.131638.-113426399.0.penhalion@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The ruffs in portraits of Mary, Queen of Scots, show this method very clearly. I'd say it was better than a theory, in the early part of the ruff-wearing period. Later on, when ruffs resemble mill wheels, they were probably pleated onto a band. I think there's a surviving example of one of these (somewhere). >Teddy might have been talking about me, but I think there are others on >the list who went to Jean's ruff making seminars as well. Jean's theory >was that the ruffs weren't pleated to bands as you have done (and as most >people do them) but were actually just strips of fabric closely gathered >and then shaped into the pleats.....hmmmm....that's really not a very >good description....I'll try again...... Instead of using a neck band- >you should just take the long strip of fabric/lace that will become the >ruff and take small pleating stitches along the inner edge. Then pull the >gathering thread to the circumference of the neck and carefully form the >gathers into the type of pleats you want to have- singles, figure eights, >etc. Using pins to hold it in shape is both useful and decorative if they >have glass beads or pearls on the heads. This method means that the ruff >can perch on top of the high doublet collars of the period without >cutting into your lower jaw because the inner edge is quite narrow but >the outer edge is full. Was that a better description? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 15:41:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MJfSGe028867 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 15:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MJe5xT046699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 13:40:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MJe31A066703; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:40:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.fone.net (smtp.ezlink.com [206.168.68.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MFLDVJ097634 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 09:21:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.168.42.139] (btcn139.btcn.fone.net [206.168.42.139]) by mail2.fone.net (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4MFHGCu006435 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 09:18:02 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for source of "plush" cotton velvet Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 09:19:36 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Silk velvet is mostly rayon. No poly. On May 22, 2005, at 6:33 AM, Aylwen & John wrote: > Hi, I'm looking for an online source for the plush stuff with a decent > pile, not the cheap stuff I can get here, but yet again, I don't want > it too expensive either. And does anyone know how to keep it from > catching all the bits of dirt and fluff it passes? > Also, silk velvet - is it mostly polyester? > Thanks, Aylwen Garden > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 15:43:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MJh1E0028875 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 15:43:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MJf33F046798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 13:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MJf2dn067424; Sun, 22 May 2005 13:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4MIUZsc022057 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 12:30:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2005 18:30:30 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050522192400.015b6c18@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 19:28:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly O.T. Hunnisett query and Teddy update In-Reply-To: <20050522.131638.-113426399.0.penhalion@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:16 22/05/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Suzi- > > > >Teddy might have been talking about me, but I think there are others on >the list who went to Jean's ruff making seminars as well. Jean's theory >was that the ruffs weren't pleated to bands as you have done (and as most >people do them) but were actually just strips of fabric closely gathered >and then shaped into the pleats.....hmmmm....that's really not a very >good description....I'll try again...... Instead of using a neck band- >you should just take the long strip of fabric/lace that will become the >ruff and take small pleating stitches along the inner edge. Then pull the >gathering thread to the circumference of the neck and carefully form the >gathers into the type of pleats you want to have- singles, figure eights, >etc. Using pins to hold it in shape is both useful and decorative if they >have glass beads or pearls on the heads. This method means that the ruff >can perch on top of the high doublet collars of the period without >cutting into your lower jaw because the inner edge is quite narrow but >the outer edge is full. Was that a better description? That makes a lot of sense - thank you so much. The ruffs for Angels were not done in any of the ways I usually do. They use a layer of "crin" and a layer of something else, with a lace edge sewn on, cotton organdie in my case, organza or wide lace fabric in others. Then you just pleat them to the top and bottom of a neckband. They look effective, and at a distance, which is what the ones I did are for, nobody will know. They don't wilt under the lights, of course. I have others, from Jean's previous instructions, on my web site. Suzi www.suziclarke.co.uk _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 16:51:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4MKp3nf029329 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 16:51:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4MKn9Fq051256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 14:49:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MKn0sZ009285; Sun, 22 May 2005 14:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4MKmstM009157 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 14:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87073C82E for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 15:48:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4290F037.7020006@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 15:48:55 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dress up References: <200505181956.PAA24097@arkroyal.concentric.com> In-Reply-To: <200505181956.PAA24097@arkroyal.concentric.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Why wait for a "reason" to dress up??? Just do it, BECAUSE YOU CAN!!! It helps to have a venue where the costuming is both appropriate and appreciated, but I find it's pretty easy here in the US to find such occasions. Aside from the SCA, LARP and Renfest events, there's no shortage of Revolutionary War, Civil War, Indian Powwow, and Mountain Men events within driving distance of almost anywhere, for those who want to join those groups. Likewise, every community I've lived in has had some sort of annual Ethnic Festival or Historical Days event where costumes can be worn. Then there's the whole SciFi/Fantasy/ Gaming/ComicBook convention scene. You can do theatre, you can join a dance troupe, you can do living history at a historical site. There's something for everybody out there. The problem for me is not in finding a place to play Dress Up, it's in picking which of the many events I want to attend. I do 4-6 costume events a year, only one is SCA, and one is a renfest. And I live in the boring ol' midwest, land of hillbillies and cornfields. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 21:02:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N12onO030939 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 21:02:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N11jhK076562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 19:01:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N11bUJ069556; Sun, 22 May 2005 19:01:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-01.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4N11VVK069494 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 19:01:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 22553 invoked from network); 23 May 2005 01:01:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.5.11) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 23 May 2005 01:01:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:08:08 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Message-Id: <2005F542-CB27-11D9-9881-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4N11VVK069494 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] message problems X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am getting the following messages for all messages from this list over the last 12 hours. How do I access them online? Where do I go? I've never had this happen before. Thanks, Aylwen Garden The message from Dawn concerning “Re: [h-cost] Dress up ” has not been downloaded from the server. You need to take this account online in order to download it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 21:25:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N1P9VT031052 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 21:25:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N1ODab077922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 19:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N1OCAF083448; Sun, 22 May 2005 19:24:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N1O9n6083336 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 19:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005052301240301300epdr7e>; Mon, 23 May 2005 01:24:03 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01c55f36$1f5ba6a0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2005F542-CB27-11D9-9881-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] message problems Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 21:23:57 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Aywlen, I am not receiving this message. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 21:46:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N1kIhU031107 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 21:46:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N1jT2x079570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 19:45:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N1jR0N095895; Sun, 22 May 2005 19:45:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N1jPZZ095812 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 19:45:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005052301452001400stftie>; Mon, 23 May 2005 01:45:20 +0000 Message-ID: <003901c55f39$183888e0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 21:45:26 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Cockpits quotes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4N1kIhU031107 Status: RO I promised to send quotes about the Cockpit when formatting the webpages for the Queens of Society, Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough webpages. I will send them as I run across them. Here is one: One by one friends and courtiers deserted James II: but Prince George of Denmark still remained near him during his flight into Salisbury. Whenever any fresh desertion took place, Prince George, with some diplomacy, merely exclaimed, "Estil possible?" At last he went too. Upon hearing of his withdrawal, James, with a degree of humor which we would rather have expected from Charles II, exclaimed--"What! is Est-il possible gone too? On his return, however, to his capital, James found that Anne had also fled: her apartments at the Cockpit, in Westminster, were empty. "God help me!" cried the disconsolate king; "my own children have forsaken me." Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 22:14:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N2E2tp031227 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 22:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N2D9qe081812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 20:13:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N2D7GH012466; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N2D5Ap012400 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:13:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005052302125901300ehql5e>; Mon, 23 May 2005 02:12:59 +0000 Message-ID: <003d01c55f3c$f5680a80$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003901c55f39$183888e0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Cockpits quotes Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 22:13:06 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO More quotes... long one... The Princess Anne, as we have seen, lived in that part of Whitehall called from its entrance the Cockpit. St. James' Park, which, in the time of Henry VIII, belonged to the Abbot into Westminster, was bought by that monarch and converted into a park, a tennis-court, and a cock-pit, which was situated where Downing Street now is. The park was approached by two noble gates, and until the year 1708, the Cockpit Gate, which opened into the court where Anne lived, was standing. It was surmounted with lofty towers and battlements, and had a portcullis, and many rich decorations. Westminster Gate, the other entrance, was designated by Hans Holbein, and some foreign architect doubtless erected the Cockpit Gate. The scene of the cruel diversion of cock-fighting was, indeed, obliterated before Anne's time, and the palace, which was one long range of apartments and offices reaching to the river, extended over that space. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 22:18:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N2IrZx031267 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 22:18:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N2I96F082197 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 20:18:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N2I9pF015471; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:18:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4N2I6nm015437 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp805.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2005 02:18:05 -0000 Message-ID: <002501c55f3d$aa2851a0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <2005F542-CB27-11D9-9881-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] message problems Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 19:18:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This may have something to do with your outlook setup. I think it should be true of all your mail though. It may mean that your account server wants you to manuall go online and pick up your mail, not the list, but your personal mail account. Hope you can figure it out. angela ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aylwen & John" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 6:08 PM Subject: [h-cost] message problems >I am getting the following messages for all messages from this list over >the last 12 hours. How do I access them online? Where do I go? I've never >had this happen before. > Thanks, Aylwen Garden > > > > The message from Dawn concerning “Re: [h-cost] Dress up > ” has not been downloaded from the server. You need to take this > account online in order to download it. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 22:22:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N2MCLj031297 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 22:22:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N2LHnt082423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 20:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N2LGbo017272; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N2LC8c017230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.243.187] (@acty2187.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.187]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j4N2LAUO009940 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 22:21:10 -0400 Message-ID: <42913E0F.6020207@dandy.net> Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 22:21:03 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] white gloves References: <000c01c55c7b$693c00c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <000c01c55c7b$693c00c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. Most of our artifacts are farm tools and are of the 18th/19th Cent. vintage, so gloves would be for keeping your hands clean from the tools :). Actually, it depends on the items. I have a number of items that, if many people are handling them, are best handled gloved, such as books and papers. I cautioned a member of the public just yesterday about running his hands over a 350 year old sword blade, not that he would have done much damage, but more to emphasize the possibility that his skin secretions might do some damage at some point. Good ol' fellow, he was checking the sharpness of the blade...Most times, I keep the items in a case and I only handle them and hand them over only to trained folks who are careful. Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 22:39:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N2d98g031369 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 22:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N2cO3a084009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 20:38:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N2cNLO027401; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:38:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N2cK3I027295 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 20:38:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050523023813.YEMQ21916.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 14:38:13 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.200.185]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050523023812.XWLO16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 14:38:12 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [266.11.15]); Mon, 23 May 2005 14:38:19 +1200 Message-ID: <005501c55f40$7b1a8b50$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4290B304.9040100@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for source of "plush" cotton velvet Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:38:13 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The examples I've personally seen of *historical* silk velvets reminded > me of a modern cotton velveteen in the density of the pile, although a > little longer? higher?, but still, after several centuries, with a shine > and glow I've only ever seen come from silk (perhaps because the silk > threads were thrown, rather than spun?). I got to handle an 1870s smoking cap last year and it resembled a nice washed velveteen in every way including the lustre. This was rather worn as well though;) But there was also a tv show on Shakespear that looked into what fabrics might have been given to him when King James died. The decided it was probably wool, but also looked at a bolt of crimson silk velvet. The shop involved had been in business sicne the 17thC and their techniqies were traditional. The bolt looked for all the world like regular velveteen. Of course if I'd have had a chance to see it in person, handle it and see it under different lights etc then there woudl no doubt have been differences. In books that I've seen also there are some pretty flat piled velvets as well. http://www.marquise.de/en/1600/nat/n1.shtml Dorothea Sabina von Neuburg's dress. > When you talk about "plush" stuff vs. "cheap," are you thinking, > perhaps, more in terms of upholstery velvets, rather than ones made for > clothing? I've found some reasonably good cotton upholstery velvets at > mill-ends type stores here in the U.S. They're pretty heavy, though, so > I'm saving them for costumes in which the weight is appropriate. I > guess it depends on what all you're wanting to make! ;-D Actually there are some super soft and plush velvets in cotton available. I come across second hand skirts in amazing soft very dense piled cotton velvet all the time. But finding them to buy is another matter. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/historical/bella.htm the bolero is from a skirt of this sort. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/cleves.htm that is a set of velvet curtains washed, conditioned and hung in the rain. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/valois.htm Velveteen treated the same way and backed with a medium weight cotton. I suspect one would have to look at European makers for cotton velvet. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.15 - Release Date: 22/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 22 23:17:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N3GuMO031537 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 23:17:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N3FtoG087470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 21:15:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N3FqYx050733; Sun, 22 May 2005 21:15:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N3FoD0050622 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 21:15:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-67-163-120-131.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[67.163.120.131]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <200505230315440140094acje>; Mon, 23 May 2005 03:15:44 +0000 Message-ID: <1a5f01c55f46$0b3cca90$6a01a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000c01c55c7b$693c00c0$745183d1@rmitchellras> <42913E0F.6020207@dandy.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] white gloves Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 22:02:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not a museum person here ... but my dad runs one. :) While I was at UT I did a lot of research at the HRC. The books I wanted to see required white cotton gloves to handle them and a special copier to use if I wanted photo copies. THe please was pretty empty all the time so they never whispered when I was there. :) (`'ˇ.¸(`'ˇ.¸(`'ˇ.¸¸.ˇ'´)¸.ˇ '´)¸.ˇ'´) Ťˇ.ˇ*¨`ˇ¤ Chiara ¤ˇ´¨*ˇ.ˇť (¸.ˇ'´(¸.ˇ'´(¸.ˇ'´`'ˇ.¸)`'ˇ .¸)`'ˇ.¸) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 00:54:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N4svNa032006 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 00:54:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N4rse6094564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 22:53:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N4rhkP009578; Sun, 22 May 2005 22:53:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-04.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4N4rc1o009525 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 22:53:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 30050 invoked from network); 23 May 2005 04:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.5.11) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 23 May 2005 04:53:28 -0000 Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:00:11 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8AC77990-CB47-11D9-9881-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: message problems X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could someone please forward on to me the messages with the subject headers: Slightly O.T. Hunnisett query and Teddy update Dress Up and the ones about "plush" cotton velvet. My system is working again, but I still can't read those messages. Thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 01:12:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N5CvEw032093 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 01:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N56I5J095722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 22 May 2005 23:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N55mxu017277; Sun, 22 May 2005 23:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N55f6G017197 for ; Sun, 22 May 2005 23:05:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-166-229-206.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.166.229.206]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j4N63xR4017706 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 16:04:01 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c55f54$b0417aa0$cee5a6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frontier House/Colonial House Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 10:07:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Waack" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 12:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Frontier House/Colonial House > Does anyone remember the very first one - Victorian or Edwardian House? > That was one of the best ones - what I remember the most is how they > discovered how incredibly BORED the women got because of the restrictions on > their lives. They said they thought that was why melodramas became so > popular because it was an outlet. So I liked that one because they actually > learned something about the way our ancestors lived that they wouldn't have > figured out without someone actually trying to live that way. I knew their > lives were restrictive, but watching the women try to live it and get so > frustrated brought it home. Well the first one was 1900 house, which was made about 4 - 5 years ago (I think), then the current flurry of houses started with the Edwardian Country house in 2002. I missed 1900 house as I didn't watch anything else on that channel so I never saw the ads and forgot about it. I think Edwardian country house started the trend of focusing on how hard this is because the servants didn't cope well with working an 18 hour day. Of the ones I've seen the Regency house party was the one where the participants (especially the women) got the most bored, as they were playing the leisured class and had servants to do everything for them, they were expected to spend all day doing virtually nothing. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 05:12:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4N9CM89017092 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 05:12:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4N9BNFV025139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 03:11:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4N9BJmw063864; Mon, 23 May 2005 03:11:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4N9BFqU063760 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 03:11:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2005 09:11:09 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050523100645.014d9ac8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:09:12 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: message problems In-Reply-To: <8AC77990-CB47-11D9-9881-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.a u> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:00 23/05/2005 +1000, you wrote: >Could someone please forward on to me the messages with the subject headers: >Slightly O.T. Hunnisett query and Teddy update >Dress Up >and the ones about "plush" cotton velvet. Aylwen The Teddy update message, in brief, said that I had seen Teddy at a meeting, and he was fine. He mentioned that someone on the list had talked with Jean Hunnisett about a different way of making ruffs, and I asked if it was someone on the list could they contact me. I had a message from Karen Bergquist which gave me the information I needed. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 07:24:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4NBOueu002368 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 07:24:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4NBO1TL034347 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 05:24:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NBNx7p041649; Mon, 23 May 2005 05:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NBNuFh041585 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 05:23:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.dd.270aa6a9 (4380) for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 07:23:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 07:23:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] message problems - german worm virus To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This morning I downloaded my email and several messages from people I recognized as h-costumers were delivered to my spam folder. When I looked in the folder at the subject lines I saw that some of us apparently have the german worm virus people are talking about. This is denoted with german language subject lines. Go here: _http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120846,00.asp_ (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,120846,00.asp) Take care, Susannnah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 09:48:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4NDm4fQ003331 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 09:48:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4NDktBO046051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 07:46:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NDknJ7036144; Mon, 23 May 2005 07:46:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NDkkCG036006 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 07:46:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 23 May 2005 08:46:41 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:46:32 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 338 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do 4-6 costume events a year, only one is SCA, and one is a renfest. And I live in the boring ol' midwest, land of hillbillies and cornfields. Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, boring and cornfields I agree on but I think most of the hillbillies are a little southeast of us :). Catherine who is also in the Kansas City area _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 16:15:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4NKFL8W005795 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 16:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4NKECIm002071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 14:14:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NKE5F8092954; Mon, 23 May 2005 14:14:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NKE09H092763 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 14:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A9811ACD00AA; Mon, 23 May 2005 16:13:53 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.105 ([209.131.81.105] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 23 May 05 20:13:50 -0000 Message-ID: <000e01c55fd4$3a8494c0$695183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:15:55 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] peeps in Pepys X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j4NKFL8W005795 Status: RO One of the gems gleaned from the local Library book sale: The Illustrated Peyps, selected and edited by Robert Latham, 1978. (portraits, drawings and other paintings from the times of...) The sale was in its last days at $2 per bag, so I guess I paid about $.10.. Also, a neat small volume of the paintings of Carpaccio, translated from the Italian, and distributed in the US in 1958. While not a major 16th C painter, there are some very nice heroic and genre pictures for costume perusal. Both these pieces came from a personal library and were complete with their dust jackets! Kathleen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 19:27:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4NNR8KJ007086 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 19:27:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4NNQ9sY033644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 17:26:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NNPxJn058717; Mon, 23 May 2005 17:25:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NNPfxd058487 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 17:25:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IGY006UCUDLG0@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 23 May 2005 19:25:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 19:25:50 -0400 From: J Schueller In-reply-to: <05BE78B0CF1BBC4BBA4AA255568D86110F8726@EXCHANGE2VS1.campus.mcgill.ca> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4292667E.5070006@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <05BE78B0CF1BBC4BBA4AA255568D86110F8726@EXCHANGE2VS1.campus.mcgill.ca> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Flemish-Christ and the adultress. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all Well, I will not be going to pennsic this year (probably) but my husband is and has...ahm... outgrown all/most of his garb. I have been meaning to replace it as most of it was made before I met him and had no decernable authenticity anyway. __________ Anyway, I am thinking a bunch(5) of white tops like one sees at the bottom right hand corner of this picture (link below) http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/b/bruegel/pieter_y/proverb.html (later-dont have a date on the painting, but the painter was born in b. 1564, Bruxelles, d. 1638, Antwerp __________ A couple of colored tunics and some pants al la these two guys (again, bottom right) http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/a/aertsen/christ_a.html about 1559 Antwep __________ http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/a/aertsen/egg-danc.html 1557 Antwerp again __________ Christ and the adulteress --> The older guy , if you look at him, looks like he has a narrow gathered wasit(no waist band) and very curved in the crouch area. The younger guy lets you see the bottoms of the pants-where it looks like the pants are fairly straight legged. I have also seen some fairly contemporary painting with slightly wider pants. Also, the young guy's red tunic seem to have tight inset sleeves. Does it seem like that to you? Would you folks think that most of the heavier tunic had set in sleeves for this period or old fashion and the red tunic in the egg dance. Also, does not look like there would be an undershirt on under these shirts. Ok, my MAIN question has to do with the pant's construction. Would you guys think that the pants are like modern pants, with the curved crouch seams, or straight seams with a gusset. I think that the older guy's inseam looks like a pair with gussets, but I am not sure. Also, if i use a gusset, how BIG should I make the gusset? I plan on making hosen for him (a la the guys in the egg dance, but he has put in a request that for this pennsic he just can have some pants!) On a related note, I know someone refered me to one site that had a lot of details for flemish men, but i can't seem to find it..... Thanks, J Schueller _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 20:51:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4O0peGI007576 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 20:51:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4O0oVkL040991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 18:50:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4O0oSKl018130; Mon, 23 May 2005 18:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4O0oOvR018091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 18:50:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4O0oNfZ006058 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 17:50:23 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 17:54:36 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Attachment Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A couple of weeks ago I wrote that I had scored a Singer Touch and Sew with cabinet for $47.25. Well, once I had the machine I wanted some of the attachments, such as the button hole maker since there was this nifty eyelet maker. Well I got the Professional Buttonholer off E-Bay for $5.00 plus $4.95 shipping and handling :-/ (chuckle). Only thing is that there are no instructions with it. I can remember the one that my mother's very old machine had, but not how to operate it. Does anyone have a set of instructions that they would be willing to share? Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 22:23:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4O2NCf8008207 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 22:23:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4O2M7PD048314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 20:22:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4O2M1hx079854; Mon, 23 May 2005 20:22:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4O2Lwe8079775 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 20:21:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from general@demaslaw.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (c-67-174-33-115.hsd1.ca.comcast.net[67.174.33.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2005052402215201500h7n5qe>; Tue, 24 May 2005 02:21:52 +0000 Message-ID: <42928FC0.3080909@demaslaw.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 19:21:52 -0700 From: General User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attachment Question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You can buy manuals from this website. http://www.sewusa.com/ Wanda Pease wrote: >A couple of weeks ago I wrote that I had scored a Singer Touch and Sew with >cabinet for $47.25. Well, once I had the machine I wanted some of the >attachments, such as the button hole maker since there was this nifty eyelet >maker. Well I got the Professional Buttonholer off E-Bay for $5.00 plus >$4.95 shipping and handling :-/ (chuckle). Only thing is that there are no >instructions with it. I can remember the one that my mother's very old >machine had, but not how to operate it. Does anyone have a set of >instructions that they would be willing to share? > >Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey >Never attribute to malice what can as easily >be attributed to simple social ineptness > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 23 23:01:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4O31vPd008425 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 23:01:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4O313n1051536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 May 2005 21:01:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4O3102Z005540; Mon, 23 May 2005 21:01:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4O30wbn005499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 21:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4O30ulZ029928 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 20:00:57 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Attachment Question Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:05:09 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <42928FC0.3080909@demaslaw.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The manual for the sewing machine is what is offered here. I actually have that. What I want is the manual or more likely the leaflet that came with the buttonhole attachment that showed how to hook it up and use it. It's not that weird but I think the instructions would probably save me a lot of frustration from trial and error. I tend to do a lot more erring when I'm on trial. Even when I do get it right I tend to forget exactly how I managed it. I've been having "Senior Moments" since kindergarten! Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of General > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 7:22 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attachment Question > > > You can buy manuals from this website. http://www.sewusa.com/ > > Wanda Pease wrote: > > >A couple of weeks ago I wrote that I had scored a Singer Touch > and Sew with > >cabinet for $47.25. Well, once I had the machine I wanted some of the > >attachments, such as the button hole maker since there was this > nifty eyelet > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 09:35:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ODZtVd011755 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:35:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4ODYqGQ011253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 07:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ODYjlG089702; Tue, 24 May 2005 07:34:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ODYhi8089662 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 07:34:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DaZYQ-0003ch-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:34:42 -0400 Message-ID: <42932D74.7050603@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 06:34:44 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flemish-Christ and the adultress. References: <05BE78B0CF1BBC4BBA4AA255568D86110F8726@EXCHANGE2VS1.campus.mcgill.ca> <4292667E.5070006@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <4292667E.5070006@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi J, I wonder if this is not the site you are looking for: http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/costumingindex.htm I don't have anything to support my views on several of your issues except my own observations, but I would say most of the men's clothing in Breugel's stuff have set in sleeves, both the tight fitting tunics and the heavier skirted "over coat like gowns." As to the pants, I cannot render an opinion, though I believe you might find some information on trousers at Marc Carlson's website. If you choose to go with the gusset, I guess you make it as big as it needs to be! Ahem! As for a shirt under the tighter tunics-maybe not, because there is at least written evindence that not all folks owned them (at least some Germans). (if you need that ref. I can get it for you). But, I would still wear one just for ease of laundering during the war. It can be made not to show if you want the "look." Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 10:19:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OEJaPf012135 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:19:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OEIZGa015099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 08:18:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OEIXbn023508; Tue, 24 May 2005 08:18:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.fone.net (smtp.ezlink.com [206.168.68.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OEIUx5023406 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 08:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylrog@fone.net) Received: from [206.168.42.154] (btcn154.btcn.fone.net [206.168.42.154]) by mail2.fone.net (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4OEFR13006610 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 08:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:18:37 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Colonial House X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did anyone see the story in the news yesterday about the new Colonial House tv series that is being postponed, if not cancelled, because one of the participants apparently committed suicide? Or has this already been mentioned and I didn't notice? Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 10:50:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OEoPIs012283 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OEnM1R019421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 08:49:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OEnJ0F052020; Tue, 24 May 2005 08:49:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OEnBcn051870 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 08:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be39.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.57]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3279447FE41 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 16:49:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000601c5606f$c6929a20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 16:49:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on friday when i have more time. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade bobbin silver lace on the jacket. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 11:39:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OFdUn7012772 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 11:39:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OFcd19026022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 09:38:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OFcZpd098884; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:38:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4OFcVo0098745 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:38:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 8548 invoked by uid 60001); 24 May 2005 15:38:24 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=h4UmqjSKGcdotWcwbw5aHx9ShVkQ2ztdaMOI2keu0slXASDCJQynaMBB0B8GC+WokGa7H27LMXWFJpt4AbLKSQFExcMrlqPiAcuwY5EWfNbAuUl8VBwIGgFddzeqFQg5/omIrwEkyWIHsROPAwqM5F2F9uKTcmgtflEjwTPMTTs= ; Message-ID: <20050524153824.8546.qmail@web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31004.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 May 2005 08:38:24 PDT Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely WONDERFUL!!! Thanks so much and I can't wait to see more pic's... Chris G. Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on friday when i have more time. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade bobbin silver lace on the jacket. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 12:40:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OGeRmp013121 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:40:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OGdIXp033765 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 10:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OGd1lb089699; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OGcrUR089500 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA884029F for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 5C7F93953; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCk1iXAAUwngEAAAAB,436d48c8e5f01f3e88c0c9db4f37358d Message-Id: <20050524163847.5C7F93953@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OH MY GOSH!!! Bjarne, that is the most beautiful suit I have ever seen. I am so impressed. You do such fabulous work!!!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 16:49:21 +0200 To: Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Hi, Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on friday when i have more time. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade bobbin silver lace on the jacket. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 12:42:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OGghSE013146 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:42:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OGfqHM034104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 10:41:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OGfp17000354; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OGfmdj000279 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:41:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADC4240525 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 9119C394E; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 09:41:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Attachment Question X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.74] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCk1lGAAiI+AEAAAAB,2dcfb9e9cfb618030f54eff1f94c994d Message-Id: <20050524164142.9119C394E@sitemail.everyone.net> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not sure if the buttonhole attachment for the Touch and Sew is the same as the attachment for the Model 301 slant needle. If it is, I have my manual at the other house and can pick it up later this week and make a copy. My 301 is a 1955 model if that is any help. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Wanda Pease" wrote: From: "Wanda Pease" Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:05:09 -0700 To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Attachment Question The manual for the sewing machine is what is offered here. I actually have that. What I want is the manual or more likely the leaflet that came with the buttonhole attachment that showed how to hook it up and use it. It's not that weird but I think the instructions would probably save me a lot of frustration from trial and error. I tend to do a lot more erring when I'm on trial. Even when I do get it right I tend to forget exactly how I managed it. I've been having "Senior Moments" since kindergarten! Regina > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of General > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 7:22 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attachment Question > > > You can buy manuals from this website. http://www.sewusa.com/ > > Wanda Pease wrote: > > >A couple of weeks ago I wrote that I had scored a Singer Touch > and Sew with > >cabinet for $47.25. Well, once I had the machine I wanted some of the > >attachments, such as the button hole maker since there was this > nifty eyelet > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 13:25:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OHPkhW013412 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OHOvpb039155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 11:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OHOtFU042187; Tue, 24 May 2005 11:24:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OHOqIO042117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 11:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-154.sonic.net [209.148.114.154]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OHOoWd017502 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:24:51 -0700 Message-ID: <42936369.6060005@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:24:57 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, so I'm merrily proceeding with dyeing a different lot of cotton items every 2 weeks (alternate weekends) with Procion MX dye. Two questions: A: Is it a general experience with Dharma Trading Co's dyes that the shades are both lighter and brighter than those on their printed chart? For example, with their dark green I got a pleasant medium green, with their rust brown I got a rather bright rust orange, with their golden brown I got a lovely darkish gold (but not a brown). I did follow the instructions for washer dyeing, though I cut the salt down to 3 cups a load to preserve the insides of the washer. I like the colors I got (except for that horrible load of "peach" that turned out lurid orange), but they're not what I expected. B: There are many other companies selling Procion MX dyes. Their colors look different on my monitor than Dharma's, and different from each other's online charts. However, as net colors are usually unreliable and anyone can use any color name that markets the color, that's meaningless. I just sent for some of the other companies' print charts, but when these arrive who knows if they will be completely accurate either? So, what I want to know is: ARE other companies really carrying different color ranges? Or does the dye manufacturer just send them all a table that says (for example) "to get medium green mix X amount of our basic yellow and X amount of our basic blue"? And then the vendors all follow that table, rather than developing their own colors? In other words, if I order more dyes from a company other than Dharma will I actually get anything different? Dharma provides fast, efficient service, and they have some Procion MX colors I like. However, they don't have some colors I really want. I like earthtones (rather muddy colors) and their selection runs more to clear brights. I know I can mix my own dyes from three or so basics, but someone else's mix might be more reliable than my beginner efforts at dye mixing. Thanks for any info. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 13:46:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OHkTW9013568 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:46:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OHjZmJ041916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 11:45:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OHjTPY062291; Tue, 24 May 2005 11:45:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OHjRMh062151 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 11:45:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.cd.28da954f (3657) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:45:18 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 13:45:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 5/24/2005 1:25:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: In other words, if I order more dyes from a company other than Dharma will I actually get anything different? I doubt it. I mean is Dharma manufacturing the dyes? It seems to me that the manufacturers making the dyes have a formula for each color and this is what goes out to distributors. Like with all pigments...I'm thinking when I used to buy oil paint...different manufacturers have different shades of say "ultramarine blue"....but if I bought the same brand of paint, the color would be the same no mater what store I got it from. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 14:14:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OIEuHw013778 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:14:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OIDxsB045382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 12:13:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIDwkm090351; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIDqjF090269 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.29]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Dadua-0001g3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:13:52 -0400 Message-ID: <24332400.1116958432084.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 14:13:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gorgeous, Bjarne--although that's no surprise! Despite any discomfort in the style, you wear it very well. Looking forward to the rest of the pictures! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: May 24, 2005 10:49 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Hi, Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on friday when i have more time. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade bobbin silver lace on the jacket. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 14:31:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OIVI7K013891 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:31:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OIUL7c047403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 12:30:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIUJLq006274; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:30:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIUFga006161 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:30:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be39.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.57]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A3F047FEBF for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:30:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <24332400.1116958432084.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:30:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Ruth, Chris and Lalah, Thanks for your phraises. I can tell you that many beautifull costumes appeared there, and for the first time in my life i saw a lady wearing a calash. I got many beautifull pictures taken of the event, and i shall post them for you on friday. Somehow it was very inspiring for me to be there, and i got a lot of new energy, so that i have started the dress with the stumpwork again. But even that the suit looks nice, i can tell you that it is very very delicate and every spot is seen emediately. During our dinner we also had lobster crayfish wich are supposed to be eaten with your hands and you have to crush the shell. And it bursts out everywhere. That suit needs a drycleaning allready. I wonder how many bucks this wil cost me, because i want to use it again next month when i go to a 1700 fair at Gammel Estrup Castle - if i will find a cleaner that will take it? But anyway it also needs a better shirt with bigger lace ruffles, the one i have is not enough bursting as it should do with this style........ Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 > Gorgeous, Bjarne--although that's no surprise! > Despite any discomfort in the style, you wear it very well. > Looking forward to the rest of the pictures! > > --Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bjarne og Leif Drews > Sent: May 24, 2005 10:49 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 > > > Hi, > Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav > III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the > shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. > More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on > friday when i have more time. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm > Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade > bobbin silver lace on the jacket. > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 14:45:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OIjEe5013961 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:45:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OIiCrp048911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 12:44:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIiAwK019754; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:44:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.fone.net (smtp.fone.net [206.168.68.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIi6ME019597 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:44:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylrog@fone.net) Received: from [206.168.42.147] (btcn147.btcn.fone.net [206.168.42.147]) by mail2.fone.net (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4OIf313021539 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <42936369.6060005@lavoltapress.com> References: <42936369.6060005@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <5a899e1d991ce920faa3cde19b8a0504@fone.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 12:44:17 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I understand it, there are several basic dye colors with standardized names that all the dye companies use. The also use those to mix their own shades. There are frequent discussions of this on the dyers list. Maybe you should subscribe to it and you can check the archives. Sylrog On May 24, 2005, at 11:24 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: > OK, so I'm merrily proceeding with dyeing a different lot of cotton > items every 2 weeks (alternate weekends) with Procion MX dye. Two > questions: > > A: Is it a general experience with Dharma Trading Co's dyes that the > shades are both lighter and brighter than those on their printed > chart? For example, with their dark green I got a pleasant medium > green, with their rust brown I got a rather bright rust orange, with > their golden brown I got a lovely darkish gold (but not a brown). I > did follow the instructions for washer dyeing, though I cut the salt > down to 3 cups a load to preserve the insides of the washer. I like > the colors I got (except for that horrible load of "peach" that turned > out lurid orange), but they're not what I expected. > > B: There are many other companies selling Procion MX dyes. Their > colors look different on my monitor than Dharma's, and different from > each other's online charts. However, as net colors are usually > unreliable and anyone can use any color name that markets the color, > that's meaningless. I just sent for some of the other companies' print > charts, but when these arrive who knows if they will be completely > accurate either? > So, what I want to know is: ARE other companies really carrying > different color ranges? Or does the dye manufacturer just send them > all a table that says (for example) "to get medium green mix X amount > of our basic yellow and X amount of our basic blue"? And then the > vendors all follow that table, rather than developing their own > colors? > In other words, if I order more dyes from a company other than Dharma > will I actually get anything different? Dharma provides fast, > efficient service, and they have some Procion MX colors I like. > However, they don't have some colors I really want. I like earthtones > (rather muddy colors) and their selection runs more to clear brights. > I know I can mix my own dyes from three or so basics, but someone > else's mix might be more reliable than my beginner efforts at dye > mixing. > > Thanks for any info. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 14:48:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OIm6fK013990 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:48:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OIlF0P049189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 12:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIl3E6022792; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:47:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OIkmOV022511 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:46:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id A6973D300C0; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:46:47 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.67]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 24 May 2005 14:46:45 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 14:46:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c56090$ed83c480$43542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <42936369.6060005@lavoltapress.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2005 18:46:47.0099 (UTC) FILETIME=[F02D60B0:01C56090] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've had a similar problem where all the Procion dyes have come out more reddish-orange than the chart would suggest. It may be something about your local water instead of the dye. I'd love to hear anyone else's opinion -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:25 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question OK, so I'm merrily proceeding with dyeing a different lot of cotton items every 2 weeks (alternate weekends) with Procion MX dye. Two questions: A: Is it a general experience with Dharma Trading Co's dyes that the shades are both lighter and brighter than those on their printed chart? For example, with their dark green I got a pleasant medium green, with their rust brown I got a rather bright rust orange, with their golden brown I got a lovely darkish gold (but not a brown). I did follow the instructions for washer dyeing, though I cut the salt down to 3 cups a load to preserve the insides of the washer. I like the colors I got (except for that horrible load of "peach" that turned out lurid orange), but they're not what I expected. B: There are many other companies selling Procion MX dyes. Their colors look different on my monitor than Dharma's, and different from each other's online charts. However, as net colors are usually unreliable and anyone can use any color name that markets the color, that's meaningless. I just sent for some of the other companies' print charts, but when these arrive who knows if they will be completely accurate either? So, what I want to know is: ARE other companies really carrying different color ranges? Or does the dye manufacturer just send them all a table that says (for example) "to get medium green mix X amount of our basic yellow and X amount of our basic blue"? And then the vendors all follow that table, rather than developing their own colors? In other words, if I order more dyes from a company other than Dharma will I actually get anything different? Dharma provides fast, efficient service, and they have some Procion MX colors I like. However, they don't have some colors I really want. I like earthtones (rather muddy colors) and their selection runs more to clear brights. I know I can mix my own dyes from three or so basics, but someone else's mix might be more reliable than my beginner efforts at dye mixing. Thanks for any info. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 15:48:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OJmPS4014315 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:48:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OJl6Ig055859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 13:47:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJjhR7077620; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:46:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJidXH076620 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:45:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4C73C012 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:44:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DAA37DB8A for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:44:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 14:44:37 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <000001c56090$ed83c480$43542fd8@Sandra> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think 1. Picture color and monitors very in color shown. 2. It is the same company/brand so the ingredients are the same so the "problem"(?) is probably on your end. Water type can effect dyeing. cutting back on the salt could be doing it, especially if you have hard water. Do you have enough dye ratio to fabric weight to water amount? As well as getting on the weavers and dyer's list, you could ask Dharma Trading about this. Something I came across "Which Procion MX colors are pure, and which mixtures? The ones without MX codes are mixed by the supplier. The ones that have MX codes may be either pure colors, or mixtures prepared by the manufacturer. Be sure that your dye source tells you the MX codes for those of the Procion MX dyes they sell that have them. (Several suppliers include this info in their printed catalogs, but not their on-line catalogs - be sure to request a printed catalog!) Many more dichlorotriazine dyes exist in the Procion line, but not all are under commercial productions. It seems that there are also a number that are manufactured currently, but which do not happen to be supplied to any of the distributors that supply dyes in small enough quantities for a single individual to use." http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/FAQ/pureMXcolors.shtml De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 16:00:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OK032D014405 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 16:00:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OJx72i057363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 13:59:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJx2cr090228; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:59:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJwxVE090171 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:59:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.174] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DafYI-00046n-RQ for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:58:59 -0400 Message-ID: <01b501c5609b$03e9d2a0$ae399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050524163847.5C7F93953@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:58:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b273c00b0cfaba394b80c8cf6ae07b574350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.174 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just spectacular, Bjarne. As always. Thanks for sharing the pictures. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 16:22:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OKM1TW014599 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 16:22:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OKK7bT059852 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 14:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OKK52p010876; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:20:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OKJwFP010608 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:20:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA8233C835 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:19:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42938C92.20101@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:20:34 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Did anyone see the story in the news yesterday about the new Colonial > House tv series that is being postponed, if not cancelled, because one > of the participants apparently committed suicide? Or has this already > been mentioned and I didn't notice? I hadn't heard anything until you mentioned it, so I went looking and found this article : http://www.guardian.co.uk/australia/story/0,12070,1490737,00.html#article_continue Seems to be an Australian version of Colonial House, and it doesn't say anything about a suicide, only that the girl went missing and was found dead near her home after the series wrapped up. I imagine they'll want to re-edit and delay the premiere out of respect for the family. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 17:41:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OLfuai015298 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:41:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OLeI6D069987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 15:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OLeEdr084316; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:40:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OLeB3u084183 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:40:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IH000BY7K4UCT@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 17:40:24 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flemish-Christ and the adultress. In-reply-to: <42932D74.7050603@earthlink.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42939F48.70606@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <05BE78B0CF1BBC4BBA4AA255568D86110F8726@EXCHANGE2VS1.campus.mcgill.ca> <4292667E.5070006@optonline.net> <42932D74.7050603@earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, that was the apage I was thinking of, thank you very much. Wicked Frau wrote: > Hi J, > I wonder if this is not the site you are looking for: > http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/costumingindex.htm > > I don't have anything to support my views on several of your issues > except my own observations, but I would say most of the men's clothing > in Breugel's stuff have set in sleeves, both the tight fitting tunics > and the heavier skirted "over coat like gowns." As to the pants, I > cannot render an opinion, though I believe you might find some > information on trousers at Marc Carlson's website. If you choose to > go with the gusset, I guess you make it as big as it needs to be! Ahem! > As for a shirt under the tighter tunics-maybe not, because there is at > least written evindence that not all folks owned them (at least some > Germans). (if you need that ref. I can get it for you). But, I > would still wear one just for ease of laundering during the war. It > can be made not to show if you want the "look." > > Sg > > >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 17:57:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4OLvjCq015750 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:57:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4OLuuuu071761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 15:56:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OLuqwB099426; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OLujDX099233 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:56:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A3164C620080; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:56:38 -0400 Received: from 209.131.81.101 ([209.131.81.101] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 24 May 05 21:56:32 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c560ab$bda04ac0$655183d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000601c5606f$c6929a20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 17:58:36 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, this is so beautiful, and you look radiant! Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 > > Hi, > Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav > III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the > shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. > More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on > friday when i have more time. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm > Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade > bobbin silver lace on the jacket. > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 19:14:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4ONEZOk016370 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 19:14:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4ONDYol081078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 17:13:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ONDS90066923; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:13:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from courageux.concentric.com (courageux.concentric.com [207.155.248.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ONDJAa066772 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by courageux.concentric.com id TAA22144; Tue, 24 May 2005 19:13:16 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505242313.TAA22144@courageux.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 16:13:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505241613.j4OGDcAC043752@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4ONDJAa066772 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gorgeous! What a shame it doesn't feel as good as it looks. I'd love to see a close up of the bobbin lace if you have a chance. Thanks Julie ---- wrote: > Hi, > Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav > III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the > shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. > More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on > friday when i have more time. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm > Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade > bobbin silver lace on the jacket. > > Bjarne > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 20:14:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4P0ECJ3016669 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4P0DSs8087042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 18:13:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P0DRYD011842; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P0DNqE011803 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m216.in-tch.com [216.166.191.216]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4P08aV21177 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4293C476.2090803@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 18:19:02 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hadn't heard that there was a new Colonial House series, at all. Just the one done within the last couple of years, that took place in Maine? The only reality t.v. show that I know of that's connected with a suicide is that one with the boxers (The Contender??)--I don't watch it, but do recall reading that one of the contestants had indeed killed himself. IIRC, the network ran "his" show (already taped) anyway. Don't know any more than that.... --Sue, who has been haunting her 18th c. costuming texts lately.... Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > Did anyone see the story in the news yesterday about the new Colonial > House tv series that is being postponed, if not cancelled, because one > of the participants apparently committed suicide? Or has this already > been mentioned and I didn't notice? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 20:40:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4P0eXS9016806 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:40:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4P0da0p089283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 18:39:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P0dXVl029484; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:39:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P0dVE8029446 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:39:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.142] (pm5-142.eos.net [205.133.149.142]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j4P0dT2k015992 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:39:29 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:31:57 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505242313.j4ONDU1P066962@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: The Colony X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn: Thanks for posting that article on "The Colony." I wonder if it will air here in the USA? I thought the part about the teenage girls knotting their shirts and the producers arguing with them was very interesting. I've always wanted to know how the relationships between the producers and the "casts" of those shows went -- whether the producers pushed the cast members to act a certain way. It sounds as if these particular producers were interested in authenticity. I'm sorry to hear about the girl's death. How sad for the families. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 20:42:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4P0g5rI016816 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:42:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4P0fGM9089375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 18:41:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P0fGvl030571; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:41:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P0fCma030532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 18:41:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4P0XMmT006333 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:33:22 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4293C9A6.9090706@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:41:10 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766/lobster References: <24332400.1116958432084.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > During our dinner we also had lobster crayfish wich are supposed to be > eaten with your hands and you have to crush the shell. And it bursts out > everywhere. That suit needs a drycleaning allready. Oh no! Maybe you should bring a special large linen napkin that will cover you better than whatever is usually provided? I ran across lobster mentioned in Pepys' diary for today: Saturday 24 May 1662 http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/05/24/index.php (edited) After a morning draft at the Star in Cheapside, I took him to the Exchange, thence home, but my wife having dined, I took him to Fish Street, and there we had a couple of lobsters, and dined upon them, and much discourse. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Want to see my Brass Rubbings?" "Mediaevalist on Board" license plate frames at http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 24 22:53:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4P2r8Qe017281 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 22:53:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4P2qFd9099579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 20:52:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P2qAxB016876; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:52:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P2q4lA016748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:52:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4P4BDvh025709 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 00:11:17 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 22:51:53 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <000601c5606f$c6929a20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000601c5606f$c6929a20$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505242251.53801.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 24 May 2005 10:49 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav > III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the > shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. > More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on > friday when i have more time. Absolutely splendid. You look as though you stepped out of a period portrait. -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 01:35:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4P5ZWA9017907 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 01:35:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4P5YbsD013221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 24 May 2005 23:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P5YYhf015137; Tue, 24 May 2005 23:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P5YUAE015108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 23:34:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4P5YRGh015700 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 22:34:30 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 22:38:46 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Further Adventures with Buttonholes and E-Bay X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I have a working machine, a buttonholer with all the cams that fits it, the instruction booklet. All with the touch of the Luck. Well, sorta. Being a new E-bayer when I went out to look for the feet and buttonholer I found several. One was snapped up from under my nose for $45.00 and silly me figured that must be the going price. I found another with a $5.00 beginning bid and put in a bit over that. I went further and found another for .99 and bid on that thinking that surely I would get neither. Particularly since I wouldn't be in town to engage in a bidding war for either. I got back into town to find myself the sole bidder on the $5.00 with it's $4.95 shipping and handling. Happy me. Then I thought about the .99 one and realized that I couldn't take the bid back and my maximum bid was way more than what I had actually paid for the other. The auction just closed and I find myself the proud owner of not one but two zigzag buttonholers. Of course along the way I stumbled across 3 yards (meters really) of some absolutely incredible 3"wide black and gold trim at http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZheritagetrading for $8.99. When I got the request to pay I asked if they had more. Sure enough they had more but it came in 9+ yard rolls, 30 Yards all together. At $80.00 I bought it all. When they checked it prior to mailing 5 yards proved to have flaws so they refunded my money on that. Then I went on to see what else they might have (they ship from LA by the way). They have beautiful necklaces which are made up of plaques and pearls. My mind said Byzantine superhumeral material. However, $20.00 each was a bit much so I asked if they sold the individual plaques. No, but they would sell me 5 damaged necklaces for $35.00. They really do have some entirely droolworthy stuff which will make both European and ME personas very happy. Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey (not affiliated except via Credit Card and happy customer) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 02:22:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4P6M570025414 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 02:22:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4P6Kr1Y016448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 00:20:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P6KoHv042465; Wed, 25 May 2005 00:20:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P6KfdC042289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 00:20:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:59172 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DapG0-0003Nx-ST for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 25 May 2005 02:20:45 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.7 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Wed, 25 May 2005 02:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3671.198.93.211.7.1117002040.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 02:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Attachment Question From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.7 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: References: <42928FC0.3080909@demaslaw.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen some attachment manuals on ebay, why not enter it into the search engine and see if they have any. Kitty > The manual for the sewing machine is what is offered here. I actually > have that. What I want is the manual or more likely the leaflet that > came with the buttonhole attachment that showed how to hook it up and > use it. It's not that weird but I think the instructions would probably > save me a lot of frustration from trial and error. I tend to do a lot > more erring when I'm on trial. Even when I do get it right I tend to > forget exactly how I managed it. I've been having "Senior Moments" > since kindergarten! > > Regina > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 06:56:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PAuYhO021433 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 06:56:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PAteLJ035059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 04:55:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PAtaSA002438; Wed, 25 May 2005 04:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f36.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PAtYEP002375 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 04:55:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caithlinn@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 25 May 2005 03:55:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.201 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 May 2005 10:55:28 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.201] X-Originating-Email: [caithlinn@hotmail.com] X-Sender: caithlinn@hotmail.com From: "C M" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 20:55:28 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2005 10:55:28.0996 (UTC) FILETIME=[43870A40:01C56118] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Nesat 8-order info? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Someone (Beth?) posted some order information for NESAT 8 a little while ago. Could you possibly post it again (privately if you like), I can't find it any more and I really want to order it soon. Thanks a lot, Caithlinn (who's just received NESAT 7 and doesn't want to be working right now, in order to read it....) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 15:27:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PJRMMt025855 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 15:27:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PJQLEQ099584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 13:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PJQD1m002120; Wed, 25 May 2005 13:26:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PJQAta002002 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 13:26:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.152]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050525192559.UASC25102.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 14:25:59 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050525142142.02c58240@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 14:25:56 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nesat 8-order info? In-Reply-To: <200505251800.j4PI0fa6024841@net.indra.com> References: <200505251800.j4PI0fa6024841@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I did. I'll email you a copy of the flyer and order form directly to you. Who's still waiting on her copy of NESAT 7! envy, envy.... Beth At 01:00 PM 5/25/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 20:55:28 +1000 >From: "C M" >Subject: [h-cost] Nesat 8-order info? >To: h-costume@net.indra.com > >Hi, > >Someone (Beth?) posted some order information for NESAT 8 a little while >ago. Could you possibly post it again (privately if you like), I can't find >it any more and I really want to order it soon. > >Thanks a lot, > >Caithlinn >(who's just received NESAT 7 and doesn't want to be working right now, in >order to read it....) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 18:58:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PMwqNY026932 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:58:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PMvmdi028646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 16:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PMveM7086215; Wed, 25 May 2005 16:57:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NIc8m0002626 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 12:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D716E3C44A for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 13:38:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9DCFCC662 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 13:38:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 338 Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:38:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Umm, don'cha mean Rednecks? Though Missouri is hilly so we might have a few hillbillies. :) De -----Original Message----- And I live in the boring ol' midwest, land of hillbillies and cornfields. Dawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, boring and cornfields I agree on but I think most of the hillbillies are a little southeast of us :). Catherine who is also in the Kansas City area _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 18:59:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PMxkls026938 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:59:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PMwvep028753 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 16:58:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PMws7J087268; Wed, 25 May 2005 16:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4NJMnps045554 for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 13:22:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.155]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050523192236.XBGZ13744.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 23 May 2005 14:22:36 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050523133815.02c50050@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:22:35 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.84, clamav-milter version 0.84e on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4NJMnps045554 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] early trousers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc, et al. For some good documentation on the very early (late iron age) trouser finds, I recommend: Schlabow, Karl. Textilfunde der Eisenzeit in Norddeutschland (Göttinger Schriften zur Vor- und Frügeschichte)100 pages Publisher: K. Wachholtz (1976) ISBN: 3529015156 Tarrant hits the early ones briefly, together with medieval and later finds (with reconstructions). She also indicates how the pieces were laid out for cutting. Tarrant, Naomi. The Development of Costume. National Galleries of Scotland (January, 1994) Routledge Press. ISBN: 0415080185 One book that I'm trying to find is on the Bocksten man's clothing: Nockert, Margareta. Bockstensmannen: och hans drakt.127 pages (1985) Publisher: Stiftelsen Hallands länsmuseer (Varberg) ISBN: 9185720070. "with extensive English summary. detailed study of the clothing (14th C.) found on a man's body which had been buried in a bog." Archaeologists have been wrong before and some of the earlier published reconstructions were a just bit (tongue firmly in cheek) speculative, but this is all we have to go on when the evidence gets a bit thin. I do agree that it should be clearly spelled out when the reconstructions get a bit iffy. It is only good professionalism, as any modern archaeologist or museum will agree. Most go to great lengths to clearly differentiate actual finds from reconstructions. It can be a bit challenging to locate the lab tests and other evidence that they based those reconstructions on though. Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:01:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN1OO4026947 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:01:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN0jZm029094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:00:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN0iFj089051; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:00:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (root@smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au [203.166.224.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OC5EY3029533 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 06:05:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@iimetro.com.au) Received: from ewalpole (203-166-229-48.dyn.iinet.net.au [203.166.229.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-01.sys.bigblue.net.au (8.12.11/SQL-8.12.11-5/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j4OD4pPn004568 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 23:05:07 +1000 Message-ID: <007e01c56058$af4bdbe0$30e5a6cb@ewalpole> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000201c55c7f$787dcec0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Subject: Re: [h-cost] white gloves Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 21:28:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > If you are handling artifacts to show them to visitors, wearing gloves > is a good idea. Same thing goes as for clean hands--do not touch face, > hair, or other objects with the gloves. I find I have to take the gloves > off frequently, then put them back on for handling atifacts. Get clean > gloves as often as necessary. > > Kim I think that part of the reason some museums may have changed their policies regarding gloves is related to the issue of what you touch when you're wearing the gloves. Studies (in the hospitality industry) have shown that people who are working with clean bare hands are more conscious of the fact that they have to keep them away from their face, hair etc. (sorry I can't give you details of the study it was on the news several years ago and I didn't really pay attention). Whereas people wearing gloves get the impression that the gloves protect things from germs (or in this case oils) and they are therefore not as aware of what they are doing with their hands. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]iimetro.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:02:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN21ZX026952 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:02:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN1IBK029193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:01:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN1HWj089542; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:01:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OFAdlg072844 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:10:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc74.asp.att.net[204.127.197.156]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005052415103401500fu5sje>; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:10:34 +0000 Received: from [67.160.125.197] by 204.127.197.111; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:10:32 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:10:32 +0000 Message-Id: <052420051510.3942.429343E8000B352100000F6622073000330809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Stunning and gorgeous!!!! You have an amazing gift! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi, > Now i can show you my habit francaise made excactly like a cut of Gustav > III's weddingsuit. It was painfull for me to wear it though, because the > shoulders are so tight and pressed back. But it gave the right look. > More pictures from the wonderfull visit at the Gustavians in Stockholm on > friday when i have more time. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/gustaviansk1766.htm > Suit was sewed in silk duchesse satin ( a fortune to make) and handmade > bobbin silver lace on the jacket. > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:02:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN2CN7026956 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:02:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN1W3M029255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN1TTZ089734; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4OFT6si090149 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 09:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBKGUBWA54MB52 for (sender ); Tue, 24 May 2005 08:28:52 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7xtGcmmCX1Xrtv/oXZK7bqDQgfW22plkFg== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KTSB56RN; Tue, 24 May 2005 08:28:09 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:24:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 Message-ID: <20050524.102401.-113975047.1.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 5:2:3779007993 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The suit looks fantastic! And to be able to wear it in such a wonderful setting! Wow! I know what you mean about the narrow, pulled-back shoulders. When I was a teen-ager doing American Rev War reenactment I enlarged the pattern for the riding habit in Janet Arnold. I did a pretty good job of it, had all the right measurements. I made it up in a lovely striped wool and wore it for the first time.....and was in complete agony from the narrow, pulled back shoulders! At first I thought I had done something wrong, but then I did some more research (did I mention this was back in the late 70's and 18th century reasearch was still in a relatively primitive state?) and discovered the fashionable 18th century form was very narrow, pulled-back shoulders.....so i did the jacket correctly......but I never wore it again because it was so painful. I hope yours is just mildly uncomfortable because it would be such a shame not to wear something that gorgeous anymore. Excellent job, as usual! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:02:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN2rl0026961 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:02:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN2ATV029396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:02:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN28Za090365; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OGDSF7043545 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:13:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from general@demaslaw.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (c-67-174-33-115.hsd1.ca.comcast.net[67.174.33.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with ESMTP id <2005052416132201300ft2mje>; Tue, 24 May 2005 16:13:23 +0000 Message-ID: <429352A3.9000300@demaslaw.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 09:13:23 -0700 From: General User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attachment Question References: In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.84/893/Tue May 24 00:27:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I googled "Singer Touch and Sew professional buttonholer" and came up with some sites that sell the manual for the buttonholer at about $12.00. One of my machine is the same machine. I experimented to use the button holder. It works great. I found the cam system works far better than the computer machine ones. Unfortunately my timing keeps slipping so I haven't used it much. Wanda Pease wrote: >The manual for the sewing machine is what is offered here. I actually have >that. What I want is the manual or more likely the leaflet that came with >the buttonhole attachment that showed how to hook it up and use it. It's >not that weird but I think the instructions would probably save me a lot of >frustration from trial and error. I tend to do a lot more erring when I'm >on trial. Even when I do get it right I tend to forget exactly how I >managed it. I've been having "Senior Moments" since kindergarten! > >Regina > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On >>Behalf Of General >>Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 7:22 PM >>To: Historical Costume >>Subject: Re: [h-cost] Attachment Question >> >> >>You can buy manuals from this website. http://www.sewusa.com/ >> >>Wanda Pease wrote: >> >> >> >>>A couple of weeks ago I wrote that I had scored a Singer Touch >>> >>> >>and Sew with >> >> >>>cabinet for $47.25. Well, once I had the machine I wanted some of the >>>attachments, such as the button hole maker since there was this >>> >>> >>nifty eyelet >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:03:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN3Rqu026967 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:03:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN2asM029457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:02:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN2aUY090725; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:02:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OHv2lW073684 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 11:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Colleen.McDonald@comcast.net) Received: from 67.171.42.224 ([67.171.42.224]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050524175656016004p5hje>; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:56:56 +0000 Received: from 192.150.22.150 (SquirrelMail authenticated user colleen) by 67.171.42.224 with HTTP; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <22613.192.150.22.150.1116957420.squirrel@67.171.42.224> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Colleen McDonald" To: h-costume@indra.com User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4-rc1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal References: In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Textile Symposium X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw this on another list that I am on and it seemed like something folks here would want to know about. There is still space available. Colleen Cotton in PA German Life Symposium Saturday, June 25, 2005, 8:30 am-4:00 pm Schwenkfelder Library & Heritage Center 105 Seminary St. Pennsburg PA 18073 (just 5 miles from the Quakertown exit of the PA turnpike -- 30 minutes south of Allentown -- 1 hour or so from Philly) www.schwenkfelder.com We accept Visa, MC, Discover -- call 215-679-3103 -- ask for Candace Perry or Sandy Cooper Sponsored, happily, by a grant from the IMLS... $30.00 includes Catalog of the accompanying exhibition, Luncheon catered by the Palm Schwenkfelder Church Ladies Aid and Breaktime snacks included (a fraktur exhibition, Finding Susanna Heebner, will be also be on view at the Center) Cotton in PA German Life Symposium Saturday, June 25, 2005, 8:30 am-4:00 pm * Nancy Roan, PA German Quilting Scholar: The Fabrics in Grandmother's Quilt. Explores the use of cotton and other fabrics used in quilts in Southeastern PA. * Patricia Keller, Textile Historian: The 18th & 19th Century Transition of Household Production to Industrial Textile Consumption. Findings from the study of more than 3000 Lancaster County 18th and 19th century inventories related to ownership of furnishing textiles, textile fiber, fiber processing tools, looms, etc. * Susan Greene, Cornell Fellow & Costume Historian: The Use of Cotton in 19th Century Clothing. An examination with noted textile expert Susan Greene of printed dress fabrics used in the 19th century. * Barbara Garrett: The Fabulous World of Feedsacks. Explore the history, development, popularity and decline of these marvelous fabrics and how they were used in both quiltmaking and everyday life. Feedsack memories will also be shared. $30.00 Catalog, Luncheon and Breaktime snacks included Reserve your place early! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:03:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN3aO9026970 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN2tKQ029502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN2q92090932; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:02:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OI004b076500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:00:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-48.sonic.net [209.148.114.48]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OHxwuT004900 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 10:59:59 -0700 Message-ID: <42936BA5.3070500@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 11:00:05 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's also the way many housepaints are sold--you pick your color off the charts in front and then the clerk goes in the back and mixes the pigments into a neutral base. Run out of paint, go back for more, and you get a slightly different shade. However, that still doesn't mean that Procion vendors don't develop color mixes on their own. I'm wondering if anyone has ordered dyes from Dharma _and_ another vendor? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 5/24/2005 1:25:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > >In other words, if I order more dyes from a company other than Dharma >will I actually get anything different? > > >I doubt it. I mean is Dharma manufacturing the dyes? It seems to me that the >manufacturers making the dyes have a formula for each color and this is what >goes out to distributors. > >Like with all pigments...I'm thinking when I used to buy oil >paint...different manufacturers have different shades of say "ultramarine blue"....but if I >bought the same brand of paint, the color would be the same no mater what >store I got it from. >_______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:04:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN4xb8026976 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:04:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN4Dvc029666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:04:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN4D1k092008; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:04:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJ4HEk039429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-248.sonic.net [209.148.113.248]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJ4FB1029784 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:04:16 -0700 Message-ID: <42937AB5.1000106@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 12:04:21 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question References: <42936369.6060005@lavoltapress.com> <5a899e1d991ce920faa3cde19b8a0504@fone.net> In-Reply-To: <5a899e1d991ce920faa3cde19b8a0504@fone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What/where is the dyers' list? Fran Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > As I understand it, there are several basic dye colors with > standardized names that all the dye companies use. The also use those > to mix their own shades. There are frequent discussions of this on > the dyers list. Maybe you should subscribe to it and you can check > the archives. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:05:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN54XH026979 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:05:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN4OV6029695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:04:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN4NaZ092166; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:04:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJxDxd090408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 13:59:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-183.sonic.net [209.148.113.183]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4OJxB6A016353 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 12:59:12 -0700 Message-ID: <42938796.4050205@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 12:59:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I think >1. Picture color and monitors very in color shown. > > Damn right, but the colors don't match the print chart either. >2. It is the same company/brand so the ingredients are the same so the >"problem"(?) is probably on your end. >Water type can effect dyeing. cutting back on the salt could be doing it, >especially if you have hard water. Do you have enough dye ratio to fabric >weight to water amount? > > Enough dye, I think. Water is city tap water, not hard. Do you think agitating the dye lots longer would make up for less salt, and if so how much longer? Thanks, Fran www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:06:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN6ViQ026986 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:06:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN5nAf029907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:05:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN5mLj093360; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51307.mail.yahoo.com (web51307.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4OLwMjk000868 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 15:58:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 29359 invoked by uid 60001); 24 May 2005 21:58:16 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=vbqCXmM+Go73ErDcvDbde3hS4WeJlW7Dy37FgxxZLUiPnJLN8d2iVvsTNOzHavtscRfiFMS0NlwfwoRypv3KJK+i9SIlhQoU+CRRgfFZruzjrU9EmizMyn0vqfPgmN+pQNNnVnHjUq+i22UouatXEF1zeGi6uhwOOYNiZ4Vjau4= ; Message-ID: <20050524215816.29357.qmail@web51307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.208.96] by web51307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 24 May 2005 14:58:16 PDT Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 14:58:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps the manufacturer's website: http://www.prochemical.com/ will have the information you seek. PROcion dyes are made by PRO Chemical & Dye of Somerset, MA, or so I believe. Ann in CT --- Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > As I understand it, there are several basic dye > colors with > standardized names that all the dye companies use. > The also use those > to mix their own shades. There are frequent > discussions of this on the > dyers list. Maybe you should subscribe to it and > you can check the > archives. > > Sylrog > > On May 24, 2005, at 11:24 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: > > > OK, so I'm merrily proceeding with dyeing a > different lot of cotton > > items every 2 weeks (alternate weekends) with > Procion MX dye. Two > > questions: > > > > A: Is it a general experience with Dharma Trading > Co's dyes that the > > shades are both lighter and brighter than those on > their printed > > chart? For example, with their dark green I got a > pleasant medium > > green, with their rust brown I got a rather bright > rust orange, with > > their golden brown I got a lovely darkish gold > (but not a brown). I > > did follow the instructions for washer dyeing, > though I cut the salt > > down to 3 cups a load to preserve the insides of > the washer. I like > > the colors I got (except for that horrible load of > "peach" that turned > > out lurid orange), but they're not what I > expected. > > > > B: There are many other companies selling Procion > MX dyes. Their > > colors look different on my monitor than Dharma's, > and different from > > each other's online charts. However, as net > colors are usually > > unreliable and anyone can use any color name that > markets the color, > > that's meaningless. I just sent for some of the > other companies' print > > charts, but when these arrive who knows if they > will be completely > > accurate either? > > So, what I want to know is: ARE other companies > really carrying > > different color ranges? Or does the dye > manufacturer just send them > > all a table that says (for example) "to get medium > green mix X amount > > of our basic yellow and X amount of our basic > blue"? And then the > > vendors all follow that table, rather than > developing their own > > colors? > > In other words, if I order more dyes from a > company other than Dharma > > will I actually get anything different? Dharma > provides fast, > > efficient service, and they have some Procion MX > colors I like. > > However, they don't have some colors I really > want. I like earthtones > > (rather muddy colors) and their selection runs > more to clear brights. > > I know I can mix my own dyes from three or so > basics, but someone > > else's mix might be more reliable than my beginner > efforts at dye > > mixing. > > > > Thanks for any info. > > > > Fran > > Lavolta Press > > http://www.lavoltapress.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:06:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN6glr026989 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN62ug029939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN62gA093623; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4ONEwek068135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 17:15:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 9786 invoked by uid 507); 25 May 2005 09:14:56 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 25 May 2005 09:14:56 +1000 Message-ID: <020301c560b6$6597f8e0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42938C92.20101@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Colonial House Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 09:14:53 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The show was filmed in Australia last October, and shown here from January to early March. Some of my friends were involved in the production of the show, and acted as extras (redcoats, magistrates etc). They said in their opinion she was the most confortable with living in the early Australian manner of all the colonials, and an absolutely lovely person. Any decisions on the show will involve her family. Glenda. > Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >> Did anyone see the story in the news yesterday about the new Colonial >> House tv series that is being postponed, if not cancelled, because one of >> the participants apparently committed suicide? Or has this already been >> mentioned and I didn't notice? > > > I hadn't heard anything until you mentioned it, so I went looking and > found this article : > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/australia/story/0,12070,1490737,00.html#article_continue > > > Seems to be an Australian version of Colonial House, and it doesn't say > anything about a suicide, only that the girl went missing and was found > dead near her home after the series wrapped up. > > I imagine they'll want to re-edit and delay the premiere out of respect > for the family. > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:07:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN745m026994 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:07:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN6OOM030033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:06:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN6NeF093980; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:06:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4P2NlAl098569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 20:23:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4P2NkYh002448 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 19:23:46 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Attachment Question Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 19:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <20050524164142.9119C394E@sitemail.everyone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lalah, Elizabeth and those who have been so kind about offering buttonholer instructions. A friend pointed me to this spot on the web: http://www.ismacs.net/singer/manuals/professional.pdf If you back it up that Ismacs.net site has all kinds of manuals just for the downloading! Elizabeth I will be keeping and printing your instructions because they will cover the buttonholer my son inherited from my mother along with her Singer. She decided I didn't NEED it because I had a nice new Pfaff!!!! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey "You can dress up a pig, but you can't put him on television without his making an ass of himself I love this list! > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lalah > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:42 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Attachment Question > > > I am not sure if the buttonhole attachment for the Touch and Sew > is the same as the attachment for the Model 301 slant needle. If > it is, I have my manual at the other house and can pick it up > later this week and make a copy. My 301 is a 1955 model if that > is any help. > > Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:07:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN7ThW026998 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:07:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN6pNT030110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN6mhC094366; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-08.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4P5p4vi024428 for ; Tue, 24 May 2005 23:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 1143 invoked from network); 25 May 2005 05:50:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.3.130) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 25 May 2005 05:50:53 -0000 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 15:57:37 +1000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] customs information X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone have any information about importing clothing into the US from Australia, and at what stage the US buyer would have to pay customs duties? Thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 19:08:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4PN80cO027001 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:08:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4PN7Dh3030184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 17:07:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PN7BcQ094671; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:07:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4PC0Gqb031787 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 06:00:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j4PBxYd04909.; Wed, 25 May 2005 12:59:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 25 May 2005 12:59:33 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 12:59:14 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: a good question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4PC0Gqb031787 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know if there has been further discussion of this while I was off-list for a week, but I've just looked at Penny's document and see that what it actually says is that part of Whitehall Palace was called the Cockpit Gate because it was on the site of a *former* cock-fighting pit. There is a part of Derby, my home city, called the Cock Pitt today for similar reasons. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> penny@costumegallery.com 13/05/2005 10:19 >>> Thank you to those with the answers about, "What is a cock-pit?" When I get to formatting the webpages for Sarah's bio, I will find the pages discussing the cockpits. Then, I send some quotes to you all about the cockpits. For some reason, I recall the ladies going to this place. The book gave me the impression that the cock-pit was a social gathering place. I just can't imagine English ladies of society going to chicken fights. BTW, chicken fights are outlawed in several states of the U.S. _____________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 20:13:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q0DDDo027252 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:13:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q0CMiM036391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 18:12:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0CJxA043306; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:12:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.fone.net (smtp.ezlink.com [206.168.68.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0CF8U043186 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:12:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylrog@fone.net) Received: from [206.168.42.156] (btcn156.btcn.fone.net [206.168.42.156]) by mail2.fone.net (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4Q09CRM000476 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:09:13 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <42936BA5.3070500@lavoltapress.com> References: <42936BA5.3070500@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <13e2ddb849cbd632815c63451f823e77@fone.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 18:12:25 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I get dyes from both Dharma and Pro Chem. What was the question? Sylrog On May 24, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: > It's also the way many housepaints are sold--you pick your color off > the charts in front and then the clerk goes in the back and mixes the > pigments into a neutral base. Run out of paint, go back for more, and > you get a slightly different shade. > > However, that still doesn't mean that Procion vendors don't develop > color mixes on their own. I'm wondering if anyone has ordered dyes > from Dharma _and_ another vendor? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 20:23:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q0NeX2027281 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:23:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q0GsWe036767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 18:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0GrMA046714; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.fone.net (mx2.pagosa.net [206.168.68.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0GpaG046596 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:16:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.168.42.156] (btcn156.btcn.fone.net [206.168.42.156]) by mail2.fone.net (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4Q0CkRN000666 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:13:48 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <20050524215816.29357.qmail@web51307.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050524215816.29357.qmail@web51307.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <3aa6708e77ed0fd9f45d4408c4e647af@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 18:17:10 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They dont make them. I believe all the dyes are made in Europe and just distributed here. On May 24, 2005, at 3:58 PM, Ann Catelli wrote: > Perhaps the manufacturer's website: > http://www.prochemical.com/ > will have the information you seek. > > PROcion dyes are made by PRO Chemical & Dye of > Somerset, MA, or so I believe. > > Ann in CT > > --- Sylvia Rognstad wrote: >> As I understand it, there are several basic dye >> colors with >> standardized names that all the dye companies use. >> The also use those >> to mix their own shades. There are frequent >> discussions of this on the >> dyers list. Maybe you should subscribe to it and >> you can check the >> archives. >> >> Sylrog >> >> On May 24, 2005, at 11:24 AM, Lavolta Press wrote: >> >>> OK, so I'm merrily proceeding with dyeing a >> different lot of cotton >>> items every 2 weeks (alternate weekends) with >> Procion MX dye. Two >>> questions: >>> >>> A: Is it a general experience with Dharma Trading >> Co's dyes that the >>> shades are both lighter and brighter than those on >> their printed >>> chart? For example, with their dark green I got a >> pleasant medium >>> green, with their rust brown I got a rather bright >> rust orange, with >>> their golden brown I got a lovely darkish gold >> (but not a brown). I >>> did follow the instructions for washer dyeing, >> though I cut the salt >>> down to 3 cups a load to preserve the insides of >> the washer. I like >>> the colors I got (except for that horrible load of >> "peach" that turned >>> out lurid orange), but they're not what I >> expected. >>> >>> B: There are many other companies selling Procion >> MX dyes. Their >>> colors look different on my monitor than Dharma's, >> and different from >>> each other's online charts. However, as net >> colors are usually >>> unreliable and anyone can use any color name that >> markets the color, >>> that's meaningless. I just sent for some of the >> other companies' print >>> charts, but when these arrive who knows if they >> will be completely >>> accurate either? >>> So, what I want to know is: ARE other companies >> really carrying >>> different color ranges? Or does the dye >> manufacturer just send them >>> all a table that says (for example) "to get medium >> green mix X amount >>> of our basic yellow and X amount of our basic >> blue"? And then the >>> vendors all follow that table, rather than >> developing their own >>> colors? >>> In other words, if I order more dyes from a >> company other than Dharma >>> will I actually get anything different? Dharma >> provides fast, >>> efficient service, and they have some Procion MX >> colors I like. >>> However, they don't have some colors I really >> want. I like earthtones >>> (rather muddy colors) and their selection runs >> more to clear brights. >>> I know I can mix my own dyes from three or so >> basics, but someone >>> else's mix might be more reliable than my beginner >> efforts at dye >>> mixing. >>> >>> Thanks for any info. >>> >>> Fran >>> Lavolta Press >>> http://www.lavoltapress.com > >> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 20:24:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q0OMQC027288 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:24:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q0FtxI036670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 18:15:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0Fr4K045875; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.fone.net (smtp.fone.net [206.168.68.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0FnEe045740 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:15:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylrog@fone.net) Received: from [206.168.42.156] (btcn156.btcn.fone.net [206.168.42.156]) by mail2.fone.net (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4Q0CkRM000666 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <42937AB5.1000106@lavoltapress.com> References: <42936369.6060005@lavoltapress.com> <5a899e1d991ce920faa3cde19b8a0504@fone.net> <42937AB5.1000106@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 18:16:05 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's an email list like this one. It's excellent for answering any dye questions you might have. There are a lot of experienced dyers on it. Go to https://list.emich.edu/mailman/listinfo/dyerslist to find out about it. Sylrog On May 24, 2005, at 1:04 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: > What/where is the dyers' list? > > Fran > > Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > >> As I understand it, there are several basic dye colors with >> standardized names that all the dye companies use. The also use >> those to mix their own shades. There are frequent discussions of >> this on the dyers list. Maybe you should subscribe to it and you can >> check the archives. >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 20:26:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q0QvOc027297 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q0QAR9037411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0Q95h053060; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0Q5DO053016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:26:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-71.sonic.net [209.148.114.71]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0Q4TA020164 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 17:26:04 -0700 Message-ID: <4295179D.2040200@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 17:26:05 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question References: <42936BA5.3070500@lavoltapress.com> <13e2ddb849cbd632815c63451f823e77@fone.net> In-Reply-To: <13e2ddb849cbd632815c63451f823e77@fone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Reproducible colors, particularly: Why are my Procion MX-from-Dharma dye lots all coming out too light and bright? I cut down on the uniodized salt to three cups per dye lot (my husband wants to preserve the washer) but otherwise followed instructions to the letter. Is the amount of water a factor? It seems logical but I cannot find any information on the dye vendors' sites or the two books on Procion dyeing I bought. Just, amount of dye to weight of fabric, which I already have correct according to the instructions. I am weighing the dye, not using measuring spoons, for more precision. I emailed Dharma with these questions but they never responded. I can understand, as they probably get thousands of questions about why dye jobs did not turn out as expected. I did find out that Jacquard also manufactures some Procion dyes, and they sell a somewhat different but smaller range of colors than Pro-Chem. At least, the color ranges of both companies that are available to individuals in small quantities, they probably sell many more colors to commercial dyers. I have about a dozen more color lots to run (I just bought some more Jacquard colors), but will try running one in a color I already used with more salt (I talked my husband into the salt increase, he likes playing with the dyes) maybe more dye (I bought extra in some colors) and maybe agitating it longer. Thanks, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > I get dyes from both Dharma and Pro Chem. What was the question? > > Sylrog > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 20:38:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q0c0v1027359 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 20:38:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q0b2nx038322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 18:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0b0mG060696; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q0atRM060592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:36:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q1uDIT015465 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 21:56:13 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Nesat 8-order info? Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 20:36:49 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200505251800.j4PI0fa6024841@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20050525142142.02c58240@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050525142142.02c58240@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200505252036.49473.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 25 May 2005 3:25 pm, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > Yes, I did. I'll email you a copy of the flyer and order form directly to > you. > > Who's still waiting on her copy of NESAT 7! envy, envy.... The nice people at David Brown Book Company (from whom I ordered my copy of NESAT 7) said that they expect to have it in 3-4 weeks. I have already ordered NESAT 8 from the source in Poland. I wouldn't be surprised, somehow, if it didn't end up getting here before NESAT 7. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed May 25 21:19:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q1JbPF027514 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 21:19:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q1Ij3B041553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 19:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q1Igcc090410; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4Q1Iees090373 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 19:18:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-26127); Wed, 25 May 2005 18:18:39 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 25 May 2005 18:18:39 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050525181353.00dab220@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 18:18:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question In-Reply-To: <4295179D.2040200@lavoltapress.com> References: <13e2ddb849cbd632815c63451f823e77@fone.net> <42936BA5.3070500@lavoltapress.com> <13e2ddb849cbd632815c63451f823e77@fone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, from the Dharma web site it gives the ratio of 1 cup salt per gallon of water; unless your washer only holds 3 gallons, you need more salt. It is important. The level of salt will not hurt the washer; it won't be in there for more than an hour of agitation if you want deep colors. What is your husband's rationale for being concerned? Joan At 05:26 PM 5/25/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Reproducible colors, particularly: >Why are my Procion MX-from-Dharma dye lots all coming out too light and >bright? I cut down on the uniodized salt to three cups per dye lot (my >husband wants to preserve the washer) but otherwise followed instructions >to the letter. > >Is the amount of water a factor? It seems logical but I cannot find any >information on the dye vendors' sites or the two books on Procion dyeing I >bought. Just, amount of dye to weight of fabric, which I already have >correct according to the instructions. I am weighing the dye, not using >measuring spoons, for more precision. > >I emailed Dharma with these questions but they never responded. I can >understand, as they probably get thousands of questions about why dye jobs >did not turn out as expected. > >I did find out that Jacquard also manufactures some Procion dyes, and they >sell a somewhat different but smaller range of colors than Pro-Chem. At >least, the color ranges of both companies that are available to >individuals in small quantities, they probably sell many more colors to >commercial dyers. > >I have about a dozen more color lots to run (I just bought some more >Jacquard colors), but will try running one in a color I already used with >more salt (I talked my husband into the salt increase, he likes playing >with the dyes) maybe more dye (I bought extra in some colors) and maybe >agitating it longer. > >Thanks, > >Fran >Lavolta Press >http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 00:08:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q48gqt028302 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 00:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q47bHh057270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 22:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q47NYo008800; Wed, 25 May 2005 22:07:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q47KEC008762 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 22:07:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l237j.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.12.243] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Db9eR-0006HI-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 May 2005 00:07:19 -0400 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050525230158.0294cec0@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 23:07:11 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200505242313.j4ONDU1P066962@net.indra.com> References: <200505242313.j4ONDU1P066962@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: drycleaning X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, Could you maybe check with your museum contacts and see what they recommend? Also, is there a theatre that you could ask about where they get their costumes cleaned? When I was looking for a good cleaner here in my city in the States, I asked around till I found out where the community and college theatres had their costumes cleaned. The other option is if there is a bridal shop/wedding consultant that you could contact. Network, always network!! Sandy >Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:30:32 +0200 >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian suit 1766 > >During our dinner we also had lobster crayfish wich are supposed to be eaten >with your hands and you have to crush the shell. And it bursts out >everywhere. That suit needs a drycleaning allready. I wonder how >many bucks this wil >cost me, because i want to use it again next month when i go to a 1700 fair >at Gammel Estrup Castle - if i will find a cleaner that will take it? > >Bjarne "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 00:26:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4Q4QqnF028431 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 00:26:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4Q4Q64h058756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 May 2005 22:26:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q4Q53P020810; Wed, 25 May 2005 22:26:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4Q4Q267020741 for ; Wed, 25 May 2005 22:26:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <200505260425560140093e5ee>; Thu, 26 May 2005 04:25:56 +0000 Message-ID: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 00:25:56 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Queens of Society X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate, I hope you enjoyed the Sarah's biography. Now, it is completely online in the Library. Since this is such a name-dropping text, I am about half way through making an index of the names of people and places in Sarah's biography. This is a long listing!!! My hat is off to those make book indexes full-time. Going page by page and documenting the names is not a fun job. But the index will be useful to those doing research. People will not need a subscription to view the index. For those who suggested the next group Queens of Society for us to work on... we are taking those into consideration. Thank you so much for your input. It was very helpful! After working on Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough and reading it several times, I have noticed some of the ladies on my Queen's listing are mentioned in Sarah's bio. I have to wrap up Sarah by Friday, because I need to start on Madame Roland biography by Saturday. It will be ready to format for the website. I am enjoying working on the Madame Recamier's biography. What a flirt of the court!!!!! Every man that she knew wanted her portrait by Gerard! I guess it was racy for the time. It also provides some inside information on the Bonaparte brothers. This portrait can be seen at: http://www.3ace-net.co.jp/gallery/otheroldmasters/016.html Besides this book, I have several other shorter articles about women of society. Been stashing them away for years. I keep working back and forth on the society biographies and my Fashion Color Database. We are very close to releasing the database online. It will be part of our Library. By autumn we hope to release the Costume Encyclopedia database in time for the Halloween season. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 06:18:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QAIGWp032126 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 06:18:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QAHLGs097279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 04:17:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QAH2Wc039306; Thu, 26 May 2005 04:17:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QAGwjt039204 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 04:16:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IH300MHFDW7IN@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 May 2005 06:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 06:17:16 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queens of Society In-reply-to: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Question-why do you type them in insted of using scanning and ocr software? Not being critical, just courius. I would think there would be a big time savings using the scanner, but i am assuming that because you are not doing that, there is some drawback. thanks, j schueller Penny Ladnier wrote: > Kate, I hope you enjoyed the Sarah's biography. Now, it is completely > online in the Library. Since this is such a name-dropping text, I am > about half way through making an index of the names of people and > places in Sarah's biography. This is a long listing!!! My hat is off > to those make book indexes full-time. Going page by page and > documenting the names is not a fun job. But the index will be useful > to those doing research. People will not need a subscription to view > the index. > > For those who suggested the next group Queens of Society for us to > work on... we are taking those into consideration. Thank you so much > for your input. It was very helpful! > > After working on Sarah, Duchess of Marlborough and reading it several > times, I have noticed some of the ladies on my Queen's listing are > mentioned in Sarah's bio. I have to wrap up Sarah by Friday, because > I need to start on Madame Roland biography by Saturday. It will be > ready to format for the website. > > I am enjoying working on the Madame Recamier's biography. What a > flirt of the court!!!!! Every man that she knew wanted her portrait > by Gerard! I guess it was racy for the time. It also provides some > inside information on the Bonaparte brothers. This portrait can be > seen at: > http://www.3ace-net.co.jp/gallery/otheroldmasters/016.html > > Besides this book, I have several other shorter articles about women > of society. Been stashing them away for years. > > I keep working back and forth on the society biographies and my > Fashion Color Database. We are very close to releasing the database > online. It will be part of our Library. By autumn we hope to release > the Costume Encyclopedia database in time for the Halloween season. > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 12:32:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QGWd94001616 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 12:32:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QGVaEq042972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 10:31:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QGVGGq034968; Thu, 26 May 2005 10:31:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QGV9AL034737 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 10:31:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so811584wra for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 09:31:04 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=I7dguUjQTn77WbDt1jdVEMZjhMo1GIiyYNa4IJ4IhiHJdmN6T9dG3iNdWNGo3VKkKGE+5IOzsECYEA2CZl3Tge2+PpOq6rUYYfjo134ZuvgO6z7RBRIvgg3E+mMgR4ItJ70PwBiMGEHPR/XdjCg+DkZ5zR1HulXhcICO0O0aF2w= Received: by 10.54.52.61 with SMTP id z61mr1061121wrz; Thu, 26 May 2005 09:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Thu, 26 May 2005 09:31:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05052609313da8f65a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 09:31:04 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question In-Reply-To: <4295179D.2040200@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <42936BA5.3070500@lavoltapress.com> <13e2ddb849cbd632815c63451f823e77@fone.net> <4295179D.2040200@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4QGV9AL034737 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran the manufacturers are in the bay area and so are you. contact them directly. http://www.jacquardproducts.com/_home/l0_index.php LynnD On 5/25/05, Lavolta Press wrote: > Reproducible colors, particularly: > > Why are my Procion MX-from-Dharma dye lots all coming out too light and > bright? I cut down on the uniodized salt to three cups per dye lot (my > husband wants to preserve the washer) but otherwise followed > instructions to the letter. > > Is the amount of water a factor? It seems logical but I cannot find any > information on the dye vendors' sites or the two books on Procion dyeing > I bought. Just, amount of dye to weight of fabric, which I already have > correct according to the instructions. I am weighing the dye, not using > measuring spoons, for more precision. > > I emailed Dharma with these questions but they never responded. I can > understand, as they probably get thousands of questions about why dye > jobs did not turn out as expected. > > I did find out that Jacquard also manufactures some Procion dyes, and > they sell a somewhat different but smaller range of colors than > Pro-Chem. At least, the color ranges of both companies that are > available to individuals in small quantities, they probably sell many > more colors to commercial dyers. > > I have about a dozen more color lots to run (I just bought some more > Jacquard colors), but will try running one in a color I already used > with more salt (I talked my husband into the salt increase, he likes > playing with the dyes) maybe more dye (I bought extra in some colors) > and maybe agitating it longer. > > Thanks, > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > > Sylvia Rognstad wrote: > > > I get dyes from both Dharma and Pro Chem. What was the question? > > > > Sylrog > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 13:11:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QHBk3D001821 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 13:11:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QHAurU054904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 11:10:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QHApq7077297; Thu, 26 May 2005 11:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QHAfx9077149 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 11:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DbLsW-00005b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 May 2005 13:10:40 -0400 Message-ID: <42960315.4030208@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 12:10:45 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queens of Society References: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO J Schueller wrote: > Question-why do you type them in insted of using scanning and ocr > software? Not being critical, just courius. I would think there would > be a big time savings using the scanner, but i am assuming that because > you are not doing that, there is some drawback. > thanks, j schueller I don't know about her particular situation, but I have a project where I'm converting old documents into PDF files. If the scan goes well it takes me about five minutes per page to clean it up. I can usually type the page faster, but then I have to do another proof-reading pass, so scanning saves a step. Sometimes the OCR gets so confused that it's quicker to just type the page from scratch. --Charlene -- Artifical Flavor: A chemical concoction with the power to make grape soda taste more like grapes than grapes do. -- Bayan, Rick; The Cynic's Dictionary, 2002 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 14:20:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QIKB44002308 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 14:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QIImIQ062734 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 12:18:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QIIgZV035958; Thu, 26 May 2005 12:18:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QIIb1x035766 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 12:18:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005052618183101400i73bpe>; Thu, 26 May 2005 18:18:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c5621f$53b05360$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net> <42960315.4030208@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queens of Society Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 14:18:33 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The reason we type all of our work instead of using OCR is because in older books type bleeds through to the previous page, or stains on the pages, etc. are picked up on the OCR software and creates character that are not there. On modern books these problems are not as much but with books that are 100+ years old it is a big problem. It takes more time to correct the junk picked up by OCR than to type it. If you could see the original condition of some of the items that we use you would understand. The reason we do not scan the pages and put them in Acrobat is again because we want to present a clean presentation with a good font size for people to read. One of the things that people have commented on for years about our website is that it is very friendly to people with visual problems. All of text is in bold letters. A young person with excellent vision might not think about it, but someone like my wearing multi-focal lens, like me, appreciate it. I also have a mother who is partly blind and can understand the need for a bolder and nice font size. We also try to stay away for certain color combinations to assist people from having migraines color triggers.... I suffer from that. BTW, I can't stand to read items in Acrobat. I generally close out webpages in that software. I just do not like their format. When I visited with the curator of women's studies at the Library of Congress, she highly commended us for typing the text and cleaning our images on the website. She said so many people just scan items and place them on the web, including the LOC, and do not take the time to properly present the material. We talked a long time about this. A good example is the Illustrated London News that we present online... the originals are in poor condition, print bleeding and the type set is ultra-small, like minus five. The size of the paper is larger than our scanners. I sent an article to two different people to type. The first typist sent it back because the type set was too small for her. The last person was my best typist, 100+ words a minute. Afterwards, the typist ask that I not send her material from that newspaper for a l-o-n-g time. The text is so small that it would give anyone a headache. And I had enlarged it for her. The formatting for the original articles is really weird. These articles in the paper is like piecing together a puzzle. Again, another one of my best typist (100+ WPM) is working on the Queens of Society book. She has typed entire books for me in a week. She is on her second week on her section of the Queens book. I had a very hard time, just reading the book because of the text size and the bleeding through problem. The presentation in the book is also hard to follow... VERY lengthy pararagraphs. Some paragraphs are 1+ pages long. I break the paragraphs to make it easier for the reader to follow through when reading. Believe me it is a lot easier to read on our website than trying to read this book in its original format. My book was originally published in 1860 as one book of 400+ pages. It was republished in 1900 in two volumes of 400+ pages each. We really do not mind typing the publications if it encourages a person to read by providing a better formatting and font sizes. Some projects like the Queens or Illustrated London Times are worth the trouble. I actually process the text better in my mind if I type it. A trick that I learned in college and gave me many good grades on tests. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 15:40:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QJe9uT002700 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 15:40:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QJcmpC071229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 13:38:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QJcgQt010015; Thu, 26 May 2005 13:38:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QJcbDj009956 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 13:38:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bef1.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.241]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7732F26288B for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 21:38:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c5622a$8a71a7e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:38:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] spring party event X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I uploaded pictures of the Gustavian party. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/springparty.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 16:05:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QK5vVJ002913 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 16:05:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QK5E61074514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 14:05:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QK5Dcp034498; Thu, 26 May 2005 14:05:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QK592W034418 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 14:05:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.113.199.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.113.199]) by pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DbObM-0006Wi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 May 2005 16:05:08 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:04:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: >I emailed Pro-Chem (I have not received the Jacquard brand dyes yet so >have not tried them), Dharma, etc. and gotten no response. I'm sure they >don't want to answer questions from hundreds of people about why their >dye lots have not turned out. That would be incredibly time consuming. > >It's really no big deal. I just assumed that as people on this group >have discussed dyeing from time to time, someone would no. I've already >got a plan for rerunning one of the dye lots, so I don't really need any >more info. It's experiement time. Why not phone Dharma directly? I'm not sure why you assume that hundreds of people are having problems and they are avoiding you. After all, you didn't actually follow the directions. I've spoken with plenty of people who have been quite satisfied with their products, and i'm sure Dharma would be happy to help you resolve your problem. Or perhaps the individual who answers e-mail questions about dyes is on vacation. Why assume malice on their part? Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 16:11:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QKBqU1002985 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 16:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QKB20U075353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 14:11:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QKAu0l039497; Thu, 26 May 2005 14:10:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QKAJJg039049 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 14:10:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.21.133] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DbOgM-0000xr-El for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 May 2005 16:10:19 -0400 Message-ID: <007c01c5622e$eff1dc30$85159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c5622a$8a71a7e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] spring party event Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 16:10:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b047416ef4a2d63977376bd0ebcc7f757350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.133 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just amazing pictures. I hope you had a great time. -Helen/Aidan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] spring party event > Hi, > I uploaded pictures of the Gustavian party. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/springparty.htm > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 17:07:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QL7c3T003394 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 17:07:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QL6Waa082264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 15:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QL6S2x091588; Thu, 26 May 2005 15:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QL6PoE091529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 15:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-21.sonic.net [209.148.114.21]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QL6NcL025889 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 14:06:24 -0700 Message-ID: <42963A50.3080700@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 14:06:24 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Why not phone Dharma directly? I'm not sure why you assume that > hundreds of people are having problems and they are avoiding you. > After all, you didn't actually follow the directions. I'm not assuming "malice" on Dharma's part. However, they have not answered my email and I didn't really expect them to. As a business, it would be crazy for them to answer every dyeing question that came their way. They sell dyes, not consulting. As for my posting here, why don't the other people who have been posting dye questions on h-costume call a dye vendor? Why don't the people who post basic sewing questions on h-costume all look up the information in a sewing manual? Why don't the people who post costuming questions go figure out how to do it for themselves, instead of posting to h-costume? Why don't the people who want the titles of books or information on how to get them go look up the info on the net, or call a research librarian? But if no one asked qusetions on h-costume we wouldn't have much of a list, would we? I don't see that it's any problem that I--among others--have posted questions about dyeing. Some people have given me useful ideas, others have not been interested in this particular discussion. I don't expect the latter to answer my questions. There is no pressure on you to do it. Particularly as, in a previous message, I have already thanked everyone and said that I've gotten all the information I want off the list. I'm not closing the discussion, as anyone else who wants to discuss dyeing is welcome to do it. I've just already said, for my part, fine, and thanks. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 17:35:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QLZudV003587 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 17:35:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QLYta4085884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 15:34:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QLYsXB014534; Thu, 26 May 2005 15:34:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QGiomB050416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 10:44:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-52.sonic.net [209.148.114.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QGindo028437 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 09:44:49 -0700 Message-ID: <4295FD02.1040804@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 09:44:50 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Question References: <42936BA5.3070500@lavoltapress.com> <13e2ddb849cbd632815c63451f823e77@fone.net> <4295179D.2040200@lavoltapress.com> <8296995c05052609313da8f65a@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8296995c05052609313da8f65a@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I emailed Pro-Chem (I have not received the Jacquard brand dyes yet so have not tried them), Dharma, etc. and gotten no response. I'm sure they don't want to answer questions from hundreds of people about why their dye lots have not turned out. That would be incredibly time consuming. It's really no big deal. I just assumed that as people on this group have discussed dyeing from time to time, someone would no. I've already got a plan for rerunning one of the dye lots, so I don't really need any more info. It's experiement time. Thanks to everyone, Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lynn Downward wrote: >Fran >the manufacturers are in the bay area and so are you. contact them directly. > >http://www.jacquardproducts.com/_home/l0_index.php > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 17:36:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QLa8mN003591 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 17:36:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QLZI1F085953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 15:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QLZF7k014834; Thu, 26 May 2005 15:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc3-s36.bay6.hotmail.com (omc3-s36.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.249.110]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QHQP2J090448 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 11:26:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.91]) by omc3-s36.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 26 May 2005 10:26:20 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 26 May 2005 10:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV19.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 26 May 2005 17:26:20 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net> <42960315.4030208@earthlink.net> Subject: OCR was: Re: [h-cost] Queens of Society Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 13:25:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2005 17:26:20.0532 (UTC) FILETIME=[08253340:01C56218] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Question-why do you type them in insted of using scanning and ocr >> software? > Sometimes the OCR gets so confused that it's quicker to just type the page > from scratch. I think it depends hugely on the quality of scanner and especially on the OCR software you're using. I used to re-type everything by hand because it was so annoying to try to correct improperly recognized text. But my parents bought a brand new scanner, complete with OCR software, and it works like a charm! I've scanned pages of books (most of the times it doesn't seem to mind the distortion that occurs when the book is not totally flat against the scanner) and also rumpled newspaper articles. The only things it didn't recognize were fractions and inch symbols. It recognized titles, different fonts, italics, larger-font boxed-in abstracts in the middle of the newspaper article, it also formatted the columns correctly. It also corrects the recognition errors itself by using a dictionary - and you can add words to the dictionary too, if they're not already in there. I used to thing OCR wasn't worth it... If you've got really weird fonts it might not perform so well, but it's been a real time-saver for me so far. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 17:40:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QLe7Ce003615 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 17:40:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QLdIPG086514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 15:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QLdHx1018015; Thu, 26 May 2005 15:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (alpha.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QJuFaa026146 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 13:56:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.155] (pm5-155.eos.net [205.133.149.155]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j4QJuA2k007142 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 15:56:11 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 15:48:49 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505261645.j4QGjLhl050986@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-MessageCare-Metrics: net.indra.com 1108; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Madame Recamier X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny: > I am enjoying working on the Madame Recamier's biography. What a >> flirt of the court!!!!! Every man that she knew wanted her portrait >> by Gerard! I guess it was racy for the time. It also provides some >> inside information on the Bonaparte brothers. This portrait can be >> seen at: >> http://www.3ace-net.co.jp/gallery/otheroldmasters/016.html >> For the time? I'd say that was pretty racy now! In a classy way, of course -- we're not talking Paris Hilton. I just love that dress. It's so incredibly impractical. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 19:10:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4QNAq19004799 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 19:10:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4QN9dAH096623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 17:09:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QN9Zdv081499; Thu, 26 May 2005 17:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4QN9UxB081428 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 17:09:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IH400DVODNOEO@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 May 2005 19:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 19:08:46 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Queens of Society In-reply-to: <000301c5621f$53b05360$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429656FE.2020806@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net> <42960315.4030208@earthlink.net> <000301c5621f$53b05360$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you for a very good explanation. j schueller Penny Ladnier wrote: > The reason we type all of our work instead of using OCR is because in > older books type bleeds through to the previous page, or stains on the > pages, etc. are picked up on the OCR software and creates character > that are not there. On modern books these problems are not as much but > with books that are 100+ years old it is a big problem. It takes more > time to correct the junk picked up by OCR than to type it. If you > could see the original condition of some of the items that we use you > would understand. > > The reason we do not scan the pages and put them in Acrobat is again > because we want to present a clean presentation with a good font size > for people to read. One of the things that people have commented on > for years about our website is that it is very friendly to people with > visual problems. All of text is in bold letters. A young person with > excellent vision might not think about it, but someone like my wearing > multi-focal lens, like me, appreciate it. I also have a mother who is > partly blind and can understand the need for a bolder and nice font > size. We also try to stay away for certain color combinations to > assist people from having migraines color triggers.... I suffer from > that. > > BTW, I can't stand to read items in Acrobat. I generally close out > webpages in that software. I just do not like their format. > > When I visited with the curator of women's studies at the Library of > Congress, she highly commended us for typing the text and cleaning our > images on the website. She said so many people just scan items and > place them on the web, including the LOC, and do not take the time to > properly present the material. We talked a long time about this. > > A good example is the Illustrated London News that we present > online... the originals are in poor condition, print bleeding and the > type set is ultra-small, like minus five. The size of the paper is > larger than our scanners. I sent an article to two different people > to type. The first typist sent it back because the type set was too > small for her. The last person was my best typist, 100+ words a > minute. Afterwards, the typist ask that I not send her material from > that newspaper for a l-o-n-g time. The text is so small that it would > give anyone a headache. And I had enlarged it for her. The > formatting for the original articles is really weird. These articles > in the paper is like piecing together a puzzle. > > Again, another one of my best typist (100+ WPM) is working on the > Queens of Society book. She has typed entire books for me in a week. > She is on her second week on her section of the Queens book. I had a > very hard time, just reading the book because of the text size and > the bleeding through problem. The presentation in the book is also > hard to follow... VERY lengthy pararagraphs. Some paragraphs are 1+ > pages long. I break the paragraphs to make it easier for the reader > to follow through when reading. Believe me it is a lot easier to read > on our website than trying to read this book in its original format. > My book was originally published in 1860 as one book of 400+ pages. > It was republished in 1900 in two volumes of 400+ pages each. > > We really do not mind typing the publications if it encourages a > person to read by providing a better formatting and font sizes. Some > projects like the Queens or Illustrated London Times are worth the > trouble. I actually process the text better in my mind if I type it. > A trick that I learned in college and gave me many good grades on tests. > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 21:04:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4R14aZM005537 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 21:04:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4R13Wqk006776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 19:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4R13U7x043407; Thu, 26 May 2005 19:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4R13SIk043353 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 19:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <200505270103230140043hhke>; Fri, 27 May 2005 01:03:23 +0000 Received: from [24.17.95.231] by 204.127.197.119; Fri, 27 May 2005 01:03:19 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] spring party event Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 01:03:19 +0000 Message-Id: <052720050103.22649.429671D700090E590000587922007614380809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO WOW!!! Gorgeous *everything*!!! I wish I coulda been there! Now I want to make some of those gowns!!!!! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi, > I uploaded pictures of the Gustavian party. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/springparty.htm > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu May 26 21:27:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4R1RfLD005684 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 21:27:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4R1QBhC008464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 26 May 2005 19:26:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4R1QARN054560; Thu, 26 May 2005 19:26:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web42107.mail.yahoo.com (web42107.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4R1Q9Y7054504 for ; Thu, 26 May 2005 19:26:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 73788 invoked by uid 60001); 27 May 2005 01:26:04 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=xYXX75PX6TGWKX2si+b2Kj9BVwCupTAe7Ap1uud+mDa4AQS+EghA1AZ80588Yozf/p6cEeljRWk7E+JaywpkB7mHcuWvkIULpFq87EdcTM3MT+3IhPoja7ebZjoNg4q0FGOK/2G2lzNVoouku/2e5fOkNmD6v9cVpIT/aC/jsWE= ; Message-ID: <20050527012604.73786.qmail@web42107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.91.64] by web42107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 26 May 2005 18:26:04 PDT Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 18:26:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re:Gustavian suit 1766 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is SOOO beautiful. Splendid work!!!!!! --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 27 11:11:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4RFBGCo011612 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 11:11:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4RENfi9081534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 May 2005 08:23:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4RENYNq021195; Fri, 27 May 2005 08:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4RENVBG021162 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 08:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 396AD40206 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 07:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 121AC725F; Fri, 27 May 2005 07:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 07:23:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] spring party event X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.135] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCly1jAACQZgEAAAAB,e0114de824972a7f2f4c629793c4de29 Message-Id: <20050527142331.121AC725F@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What wonderful garb, and how nice that everyone made such obvious efforts to be correctly dressed. I wish there was somewhere here that people did that. And of all the elegant costumes, yours is the stand out best of the bunch. You have a talent that the rest of us can only strive for. Thanks for sharing!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 21:38:45 +0200 To: Subject: [h-cost] spring party event Hi, I uploaded pictures of the Gustavian party. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/springparty.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 27 12:00:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4RG05fR011854 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 12:00:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4RFxDba091853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 May 2005 09:59:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4RFx5H0090143; Fri, 27 May 2005 09:59:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4RFwxLZ090040 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 09:59:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09143 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 10:58:58 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Madame Recamier Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 10:58:55 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Re: Madame Recamier Thread-Index: AcViO2GI/y2QCZxISMCBI0J5DE9zDgAlePHA From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4RFwxLZ090040 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail: Let us know if you ever get the biog published. The only recent full-length biog on Recamier is in French. I'm sure you also know of the slightly earlier portrait of her by David. I seem to recall(correct me if I'm wrong), but during the short-lived Peace of Amiens, when the English of financial means flocked to Paris, and their French counterparts descended upon London, Julia Recamier brought her daring fashion sense to the English ton and caused quite a scandalous stir. For all their apparent simplicity, those sheer white muslin gowns and cashmere shawls were really quite expensive. Both English and French women had to pay high prices plus import taxes and/or the higher costs of obtaining illegally smuggled from India cashmere and muslin items. Napoleon was known to have ordered Josephine and her daughter not to wear their muslin gowns, and upon occaision, order some gowns destroyed. To him, it was a French economic issue: imported muslin gowns took jobs away from French silk weavers. Few of those white muslin dresses survive today. Many of those costly shawls were recycled into other items from gowns and mantles to pillow covers when fashion changed. And a fashionable woman like Recamier or Josephine Bonaparte would probably have had to had more white muslin dresses than a half-generation earlier, where sturdier colored fabrics would last longer--it is a trial even today to keep white white. I'm sure you also recall the chapter in Austen's "Northanger Abbey", where Henry Tilney relates to Elizabeth the problems and perils of purchasing good quality imported muslin, that could fray or worse than washed. A new muslin gown that needed washing could quickly end up as no more than pocket handkerchiefs. Austen also related in her personal correspondence that subjecting muslins to dyeing, could literally destroy the fabric. Cindy Abel And to wear sandals probably implied that one could afford servants so one wouldn't have to walk much and devote a lot of time and budget on foot care. In the end, simple "Greek sandals" were probably as pricey as fashionable footwear of the Ancient Regime -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 2:49 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: Madame Recamier Penny: > I am enjoying working on the Madame Recamier's biography. What a >> flirt of the court!!!!! Every man that she knew wanted her portrait >> by Gerard! I guess it was racy for the time. It also provides some >> inside information on the Bonaparte brothers. This portrait can be >> seen at: >> http://www.3ace-net.co.jp/gallery/otheroldmasters/016.html >> For the time? I'd say that was pretty racy now! In a classy way, of course -- we're not talking Paris Hilton. I just love that dress. It's so incredibly impractical. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 27 22:29:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4S2T8d0015555 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 22:29:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4S2SHjF063602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 May 2005 20:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S2SCkL079203; Fri, 27 May 2005 20:28:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4RITP3r008656 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 12:29:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.52]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050527182919.FTKU12027.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 13:29:19 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050527132316.02bd0ec0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 13:29:16 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Trip X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We are thinking of a trip to Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) late this summer. What museums and sites would you recommend for someone interested in early to medieval (pre-17th century) history, textiles and costuming? Viking ship museum,... Thanks for any suggestions. Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 27 22:29:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4S2Tu7G015559 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 22:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4S2TIYs063669 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 May 2005 20:29:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S2THs1079642; Fri, 27 May 2005 20:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4RIpsmv024605 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 12:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005052718514901400p8h5be>; Fri, 27 May 2005 18:51:49 +0000 Message-ID: <003301c562ed$25b112a0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net><42960315.4030208@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 14:51:52 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Queens of Society X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Replying to the several messages... I have two OCR programs and a large professional grade scanner. I really love my scanner because it can capture at high resolutions and very detailed. I have tried the professional OCRs software and had the same problem on both. I am very hesitate to waste any more money on the software with the fear of getting the same results as the two programs that I have. I might try it again someday, if there was a few trial offer. My ladies really do enjoy the typing. I type on a laptop while watching TV. That's my resting time. After that initial typing, I move the files to the big computer. Don't ask how many computers we have... I am in a house full of computer geeks, lots of computers in the house. LOL! We don't have computers in the bathrooms! The Queens indexes that I mentioned are not in the books. I am creating an index per Society Queen. So if someone is doing research on a particular person, they will know beforehand if that person is included/mentioned in the bio. These bios are a lot more than just about the featured person. I was working on Madame Recamier's bio last night and it had two pages just about one artist. Charlene, I wholeheartly agree with you. I would rather type and edit once, then OCR, edit slowly the OCR for mistakes it made, and then edit again. The Queens book is an exception to our normal process. The addition of the index is making the process slowly, because of having to pull out the names, places and events (NPE). Then put the names in another document alphabetically with a link to the pages that the NPE are mentioned. When I get the first one completed, I will let you know where the link is for a look-see. Gail, can you please send me your nice message that you sent to the list. I accidentally deleted it. As I mentioned before, I am just now exploring European history. Its new to me! I like to know the background of what was occurring in history when working with these Queens. As for the white muslin dresses... an exhibit I worked on at the Valentine Museum had a wedding dress like what you described. There were several in the collection in very nice condition. I believe I have seen these dresses at Colonial Williams burg too a few years ago. I can't recall if I took a photo of the Valentine dress. I have to go through my photos of the exhibits that I worked on in a couple of weeks. If I do have a photo of it, I will put it online. I know Jennie Chancey took several photos of this dress. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 27 22:30:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4S2U3oM015565 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 22:30:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4S2TOqW063691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 May 2005 20:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S2TOvo079683; Fri, 27 May 2005 20:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4RJgaqK059300 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 13:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.36.73a9891e (15703) for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 15:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-r28 (mblk-r28.mblk.aol.com [152.163.179.18]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID54-3d57429778226e; Fri, 27 May 2005 15:42:26 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 15:42:26 -0400 Message-Id: <8C7310B587A3737-BD4-1786C@mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200505271804.j4RI3Kaq089894@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com (152.163.179.18) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 27 May 2005 15:42:26 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200505271804.j4RI3Kaq089894@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.0.0.12281 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.179.18 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Men's Flemish peasant garb X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO J- May I suggest another painting by Brueghel, if you can get a good copy of it. It's called The Haymakers, and it shows a bunch of men coming in from the fields, all wearing their undershirts and hose. The book I just bought shows so much detail that you can actually see the seam lines on both types of garments. Also, try this page: http://houseofpung.net/clothes/flemish/man/index.html Hope this helps, Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 27 23:18:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4S3IHAZ016007 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 23:18:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4S3HPJY066758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 May 2005 21:17:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S3HL6X098158; Fri, 27 May 2005 21:17:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S3HG16098103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 21:17:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4S3HE4l017263 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 20:17:14 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Trip Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 20:21:34 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050527132316.02bd0ec0@mail.alltel.net> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you checked the Drachenwald web site? You might want to get in touch with some of the chatelaines of the local groups and see what they might recommend. Visby is always a Blast! Regina Romsey OL, OP, Drachenwald/East, Now Proud Resident of the Laurel Kingdom of AnTir and the Pacific NorthWet > > We are thinking of a trip to Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) late > this summer. What museums and sites would you recommend for someone > interested in early to medieval (pre-17th century) history, textiles and > costuming? Viking ship museum,... > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Beth > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri May 27 23:46:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4S3kEIV016164 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 23:46:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4S3j2bv070627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 27 May 2005 21:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S3iuba011488; Fri, 27 May 2005 21:44:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4S3irWO011421 for ; Fri, 27 May 2005 21:44:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 63963 invoked by uid 60001); 28 May 2005 03:44:48 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=OoA3s+373ggklnV/cw8LDY9m6XfRq60qjwaR3evTZ57VxTdqkQ06/n7gzkA0i+4PjG0IS9HETl97cqzAKrizYTZCIKG2IO9pIdkF2R/ItnOTHXpYiKhzey/1s6gDsA8ufCp7KfS0m10n4OXtb/KxlCpC33hkUZzNmCIKouKUxok= ; Message-ID: <20050528034448.63961.qmail@web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 27 May 2005 20:44:48 PDT Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 20:44:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A Movie material question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Since this board has so many knowledgeable people on it, I'm posting this query. Does anyone here know,for sure, what materials comprised the black "wedding gown" the character Lily wore in the movie "legend"? Since it was a Uk production, I thought some of our folk may have had an idea on it. Though the dress is not a "historic "item, the fairy tale aspect is a part of all history. Anyone have a clue? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 04:07:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4S87KdA019133 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 04:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4S86Mwq087033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 02:06:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S86GfV011136; Sat, 28 May 2005 02:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S86EOY011120 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 02:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be54.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.84]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A82D26283F for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 10:06:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002d01c5635c$21b2bc70$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050527132316.02bd0ec0@mail.alltel.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 10:06:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, There is the Roskilde Cathedral where all the kings and queens are burried. At Roskilde also the viking museum, and you should go to the local history museum there as well. I think they have the new replica of Margrethe I's gown. Frederiksborg Castle in Hillerřd has the largest collection of portraits in the country and also Rosenborg Pallace in Copenhagen. There is an old viking city "reconstrukted" called Fyrkat. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth and Bob Matney" To: Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 8:29 PM Subject: [h-cost] Trip > We are thinking of a trip to Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) late > this summer. What museums and sites would you recommend for someone > interested in early to medieval (pre-17th century) history, textiles and > costuming? Viking ship museum,... > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 05:57:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4S9vElS015629 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 05:57:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4S9uDOJ001969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 03:56:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S9uA0w049229; Sat, 28 May 2005 03:56:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4S9u5xu049200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 03:56:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4S9m8mT016965 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 05:48:08 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 28 May 2005 05:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42984032.3080109@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 05:56:02 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050527132316.02bd0ec0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050527132316.02bd0ec0@mail.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > We are thinking of a trip to Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) late > this summer. What museums and sites would you recommend I went to Oslo several years ago and had a super time. I've got a travel diary on my website which might give you some ideas: http://www.virtue.to/articles/Oslo.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Want to see my Brass Rubbings?" "Mediaevalist on Board" license plate frames at http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 06:34:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4SAYpUo019394 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 06:34:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4SAXllU009307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 04:33:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SAXkLQ065705; Sat, 28 May 2005 04:33:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SAXgqf065666 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 04:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IH700L2P4001C@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 28 May 2005 06:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 06:34:04 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Men's Flemish peasant garb In-reply-to: <8C7310B587A3737-BD4-1786C@mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4298491C.9040709@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <200505271804.j4RI3Kaq089894@net.indra.com> <8C7310B587A3737-BD4-1786C@mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am going to have to look that painting up in a print source, I am not haveing much luck finding it on the web, but thank you, I need all the help I can get! And the website you pointed to is quite cool, thank you! jordana tearoses@aol.com wrote: >J- > >May I suggest another painting by Brueghel, if you can get a good copy of it. It's called The Haymakers, and it shows a bunch of men coming in from the fields, all wearing their undershirts and hose. The book I just bought shows so much detail that you can actually see the seam lines on both types of garments. > >Also, try this page: http://houseofpung.net/clothes/flemish/man/index.html > >Hope this helps, > >Tea Rose >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 10:54:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4SEsKpH021161 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 10:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4SErGs4025356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 08:53:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SErB8V067624; Sat, 28 May 2005 08:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SEr8Qt067604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 08:53:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dc2gP-0005WT-7O; Sat, 28 May 2005 09:53:01 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 09:53:01 -0500 Message-ID: <20050528095301.7eqxhu2qgkagw4co@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 09:53:01 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Found it! Re: [h-cost] Re: Men's Flemish peasant garb References: <200505271804.j4RI3Kaq089894@net.indra.com> <8C7310B587A3737-BD4-1786C@mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com> <4298491C.9040709@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <4298491C.9040709@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting J Schueller : > I am going to have to look that painting up in a print source, I am not > haveing much luck finding it on the web, but thank you, I need all the > help I can get! And the website you pointed to is quite cool, thank you! > I found it! you got me curious -- I had to do a regular google search and found a site "hayinart.com" and it's there. You can search for artist -- here's the link to the Bruegel paintings that they have online. It's a monster link so ... http://tinyurl.com/cy8md Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 10:57:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4SEvTtI021621 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 10:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4SEun8L025690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 08:56:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SEunv9069241; Sat, 28 May 2005 08:56:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SEulbT069231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 08:56:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dc2ju-0005qe-Qf; Sat, 28 May 2005 09:56:38 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 09:56:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20050528095638.mqshjdfet6akg00k@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 09:56:38 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Men's Flemish peasant garb References: <200505271804.j4RI3Kaq089894@net.indra.com> <8C7310B587A3737-BD4-1786C@mblk-r28.sysops.aol.com> <4298491C.9040709@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <4298491C.9040709@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting J Schueller : > I am going to have to look that painting up in a print source, I am not > haveing much luck finding it on the web, but thank you, I need all the > help I can get! And the website you pointed to is quite cool, thank you! > And *quite* a few nice detail shots too! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 12:41:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4SGfQ7q022139 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 12:41:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4SGePrg034709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 10:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SGeMmd018653; Sat, 28 May 2005 10:40:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SGeK84018627 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 10:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-tawny.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Dc4MG-0000T8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 28 May 2005 12:40:20 -0400 Message-ID: <42989F00.4050108@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 09:40:32 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have seen of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 15:20:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4SJK2D4022981 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 15:20:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4SJIIxV044269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 13:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SJIC2n081931; Sat, 28 May 2005 13:18:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4SJI9xB081911 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 13:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.171] (pm5-171.eos.net [205.133.149.171]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j4SJI6wO013655 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 15:18:07 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 15:10:43 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505271803.j4RI3Kap089894@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Repost: madame recamier X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cindy: I'm not doing a biography of Madame Recamier, Penny is. Penny: I didn't post that cool reply, Cindy did. Here it is: > Let us know if you ever get the biog published. The only recent > full-length biog on Recamier is in French. I'm sure you also know of the > slightly earlier portrait of her by David. > > I seem to recall(correct me if I'm wrong), but during the short-lived > Peace of Amiens, when the English of financial means flocked to Paris, > and their French counterparts descended upon London, Julia Recamier > brought her daring fashion sense to the English ton and caused quite a > scandalous stir. > > For all their apparent simplicity, those sheer white muslin gowns and > cashmere shawls were really quite expensive. Both English and French > women had to pay high prices plus import taxes and/or the higher costs > of obtaining illegally smuggled from India cashmere and muslin items. > Napoleon was known to have ordered Josephine and her daughter not to > wear their muslin gowns, and upon occaision, order some gowns destroyed. > To him, it was a French economic issue: imported muslin gowns took jobs > away from French silk weavers. > Few of those white muslin dresses survive today. Many of those costly > shawls were recycled into other items from gowns and mantles to pillow > covers when fashion changed. And a fashionable woman like Recamier or > Josephine Bonaparte would probably have had to had more white muslin > dresses than a half-generation earlier, where sturdier colored fabrics > would last longer--it is a trial even today to keep white white. I'm > sure you also recall the chapter in Austen's "Northanger Abbey", where > Henry Tilney relates to Elizabeth the problems and perils of purchasing > good quality imported muslin, that could fray or worse than washed. A > new muslin gown that needed washing could quickly end up as no more than > pocket handkerchiefs. Austen also related in her personal correspondence > that subjecting muslins to dyeing, could literally destroy the fabric. > > Cindy Abel > > And to wear sandals probably implied that one could afford servants so > one wouldn't have to walk much and devote a lot of time and budget on > foot care. In the end, simple "Greek sandals" were probably as pricey as > fashionable footwear of the Ancient Regime Gail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 20:08:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T08Dwv024340 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 20:08:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T07G3Z063946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 18:07:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T07CUS092956; Sat, 28 May 2005 18:07:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T078Xg092924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 18:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.231] (acty1231.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.231]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j4T076Qg023181 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 20:07:06 -0400 Message-ID: <429907A5.9020909@dandy.net> Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 20:07:01 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume dvds for sale References: <20050506145735.52161.qmail@web50209.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050506145735.52161.qmail@web50209.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Melissa. I must apologise that I didn't send you a note right away, but I have been working crazy hours this week and hadn't gotten a chance to get online. I got your DVDs a few days back, and everything ius fine. I always wanted to see "The Advocate", so I watched it right off. Thank You again for the films. Yours, Mike Tartaglio > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 20:53:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T0rY3R024561 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 20:53:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T0qnw5066469 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 18:52:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T0qmuB008797; Sat, 28 May 2005 18:52:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T0qjwk008778 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 18:52:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m142.in-tch.com [216.166.191.142]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4T0lqV00710 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 18:47:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <429913B0.4040009@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 18:58:24 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? References: <42989F00.4050108@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <42989F00.4050108@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 16th century Europe. In both extant textiles and in portraits.... --sue Wicked Frau wrote: > Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have > seen of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? > > Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat May 28 21:51:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T1pJFW024822 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 21:51:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T1oQws069875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 19:50:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T1oMS5028301; Sat, 28 May 2005 19:50:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T1oJMJ028283 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 19:50:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id AFDBB2200C0; Sat, 28 May 2005 21:50:19 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.33]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 28 May 2005 21:50:19 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 21:50:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c563f0$c3cd4e00$21542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 May 2005 01:50:19.0484 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4CA99C0:01C563F0] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question regarding renaissance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I apologize for the beginner level of the question here, but Renaissance is not really my period, and I'm hoping someone more experienced can give me advice. Regarding farthingales: Can a well-dressed middle class woman go without one, or is that strictly a peasant-class thing to do? Having been to many ren faires and SCA events, many people's farthingales tend to look wrong, at least to my eyes. Mostly too short and the skirt stretched too tightly over them. If one simply must wear a hoop, how does one get the graceful look of Shakespeare in Love or Elizabeth? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 00:03:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T43DIn025420 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 00:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T42EUw077694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 22:02:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T427fX073739; Sat, 28 May 2005 22:02:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T425v2073723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 22:02:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4T422nF005966 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 21:02:04 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Question regarding renaissance Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 21:06:30 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000c01c563f0$c3cd4e00$21542fd8@Sandra> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sandra, It's my understanding that farthingales were used for only about 50 years in the 1600's at least in England and France and Italy. Spain may have used them longer. Many of the Henry VIII gowns seem to have used petticoats instead. Bum rolls may actually be what we are seeing in other portraits. I suspect that one of the reasons the farthingales you see look "wrong" is that they are frequently modern wedding hoops (guilty as charged) which are the wrong shape. Another common problem is that the person skimped on the skirt fabric. My answer to getting the graceful look of the Shakespeare in Love gown is Enough Fabric in the Skirt! Don't Skimp! Also, line the skirt to give it heft. The later 16th century Spanish gowns do seem to fit the farthingale almost exactly in a smooth cone. Not using enough fabric and linings is endemic throughout the SCA and Renn Faire goers. The number of T tunics I've seen with nowhere near enough fabric to make them flow gracefully so they look like a sack tied in the middle is sad. Regina P.S. I just bought some Indian necklaces from heritagetrading on E-bay that are going to make perfect billaments for a French hood! Happy Dance! > > I apologize for the beginner level of the question here, but Renaissance > is not really my period, and I'm hoping someone more experienced can > give me advice. > > Regarding farthingales: Can a well-dressed middle class woman go without > one, or is that strictly a peasant-class thing to do? > > Having been to many ren faires and SCA events, many people's > farthingales tend to look wrong, at least to my eyes. Mostly too short > and the skirt stretched too tightly over them. > > If one simply must wear a hoop, how does one get the graceful look of > Shakespeare in Love or Elizabeth? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 01:31:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T5VjHm025796 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 01:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T5UuJt082369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 23:30:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T5UrfX001798; Sat, 28 May 2005 23:30:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4T5Uo8I001784 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 23:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-20074); Sat, 28 May 2005 22:30:49 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sat, 28 May 2005 22:30:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050528221147.00dba860@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 22:30:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question regarding renaissance In-Reply-To: <000c01c563f0$c3cd4e00$21542fd8@Sandra> References: <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:50 PM 5/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I apologize for the beginner level of the question here, but Renaissance >is not really my period, and I'm hoping someone more experienced can >give me advice. > >Regarding farthingales: Can a well-dressed middle class woman go without >one, or is that strictly a peasant-class thing to do? > >Having been to many ren faires and SCA events, many people's >farthingales tend to look wrong, at least to my eyes. Mostly too short >and the skirt stretched too tightly over them. > >If one simply must wear a hoop, how does one get the graceful look of >Shakespeare in Love or Elizabeth? One key to having your skirts look right is to have enough fabric in them; my overskirts have 3 or 4 lengths of 45-inch wide fabric pleated into the waistband. My farthingale has a total of 6 hoops (it started out with 4, but I added to it). Plus I wear a full underskirt with forepart, not just a forepart pinned to the farthingale. Don't try to have a really large farthingale; work on sizing it to look best on you. You need enough room to be able to walk without stepping on the front of your skirt (and without having to pick up the skirt). This also means that you can't take really long strides. I have one hoop at approximately knee-level, which allows me to "lead" with my knee, gently lifting my skirts without using my hands, while walking up slopes or, given time to do it gracefully, up stairs. The only time I have trouble dealing with my skirts is when the wind is blowing very hard and blows the entire set of skirts against my legs, but at that point everyone is having trouble . Joan Jurancich _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 01:43:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T5h3mQ025828 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 01:43:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T5gPec083064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 28 May 2005 23:42:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T5gOT7004982; Sat, 28 May 2005 23:42:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-2.paradise.net.nz (bm-2a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.21]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T5gMob004967 for ; Sat, 28 May 2005 23:42:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (smtp-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.194]) by linda-2.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IH800AT2L6L65@linda-2.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 29 May 2005 17:42:21 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-209.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.209]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8594682C7E for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 17:42:20 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 17:35:28 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question regarding renaissance In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429954A0.4060508@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wanda Pease wrote: >Sandra, > > It's my understanding that farthingales were used for only about 50 years >in the 1600's at least in England and France and Italy. Spain may have used >them longer. Many of the Henry VIII gowns seem to have used petticoats >instead. Bum rolls may actually be what we are seeing in other portraits. > > I suspect that one of the reasons the farthingales you see look "wrong" > >Another common problem is that the person skimped on the >skirt fabric. My answer to getting the graceful look of the Shakespeare in >Love gown is Enough Fabric in the Skirt! Don't Skimp! > Yup-- I've seen more than one skirt over a farthingale where the farthingale is too big or the skirt is too small... I suspect that the skirt needs to be at least 5% greater circumference greater than the farthingale, and for some styles much, much more. >Also, line the skirt >to give it heft. > In fact, do it regardless of whether you mean to wear a fathingale. It will make your skirts hang better, and look a hell of a lot nicer. Also, lined garments wear a lot better. > Not using enough fabric and linings is endemic throughout the SCA and Renn >Faire goers. The number of T tunics I've seen with nowhere near enough >fabric to make them flow gracefully so they look like a sack tied in the >middle is sad. > > Preach it, sister! Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 02:57:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T6vgMP026054 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 02:57:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T6uocf086903 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 00:56:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T6ulD7030542; Sun, 29 May 2005 00:56:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T6uhtX030451 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 00:56:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050529065637.YITH1901.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:37 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.200.185]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050529065637.WSJL7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:37 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [267.2.0]); Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:43 +1200 Message-ID: <004f01c5641b$926a9400$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4.2.2.20050528221147.00dba860@pop.surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question regarding renaissance Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 18:56:42 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Regarding farthingales: Can a well-dressed middle class woman go without > >one, or is that strictly a peasant-class thing to do? There is a sketch of middle class women in very narrow dresses, and Drea Leed recreated one of them: http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/gownkirtle.html It's unlikely a farthingale as we think of them would be worn under it. Maybe a roped petticoat. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Elizabeth_I.htm Elizabeth I wears a narrow gown when she meets the Dutch Ambassadors (fifth frm the bottom.) http://www.marileecody.com/eliz1-images.html There are a few more portraits of Elizabeth wearing a narrow gown, usually a surcoat. > >Having been to many ren faires and SCA events, many people's > >farthingales tend to look wrong, at least to my eyes. Mostly too short > >and the skirt stretched too tightly over them. http://costume.dm.net/fabuse.html Good starting point for deciding how much fabric you need. My problem is that too many people use straight widths of fabric so they just don't lay well on the extreme and wide cone shaped hoops.. . Every* extant skirt prior to 1600 and all the patterns in the tailor's books are shaped. Gored is most common, half circle underskirts appear in Alcega. Not to say there were absolutely no un-shaped skirts, but the evidence weighs not in their favour. Except in other lands;) Even when straight lengths are used, there are triangular or trapezoid gores at the sides of them. http://www.vertetsable.com/research_f41.htm Nice example of shaping, there are more patterns on the site, so have a hunt in there as well. Hoops that were too short did happen in the period, I found a great image of one: http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/MI08161c14a.jpg I am not sure of the context, but being by a German artist, then it was possibly some sort of comment on the hooped styles. In most cases there is smoothness, least at the front, pleats happen at the sides in many instances but the skirts are still amost certainly shaped over the stark cones of the farthingales. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/ http://sayaespanola.glittersweet.com And Spanish really should fit firmly over the farthingale frame. For my Spanish gown with a long train and huge sleeves, I used just under 8m of 112cm wide fabric. As much fabric went into the sleeves as the skirt. I think I could have actually used less in my skirts, but I want the train to be able to move more freely than it would have using less fabric. http://costumes.glittersweet.com/sca/valois.htm I'm going to replace the lining of the sleeves as soon as I can afford the beautiful silk brocade I spotted in a store.. So my recommendation would be to use a layout from Alcega and pleat the fabric no further in than side front, depending on the exact style you want to go for. You get good yardage in the hem without bulking at the top, yet still enough room for pleats. I decided to do this by using the front length measurement as my actual measurement and the angles of the sides of the skirt then making all the other measurements proportional for my height. It worked very well , giving a good amount of flare without using a tremendous amount of fabric. My skirt measures 150cm from hem to waist As for farthingales... grab a copy of Corsets and Crinolines and read the contemporary text from the earlier chapters that deal with the 16thC. There is a lot of whalebone that went into the hoops. It suggests a couple of things: more than one "layer" of boning was in each channel and that there were many hoops used. The more hoops you use the smoother the cone, so long as you get the boning right. Mine were made from willow wands which was just annoying and lumpy. Willow caning would have been better if I could buy it preshaped and in a continuous coil. As it is, the next set of hoops will be plastic boning as I found more references to whale bone than cane. I made 7 hoops. They came to just above my instep, and with the firmness of the velveteen backed with cotton twill plus the hem guarded with heavy wool and a gathered petticoat underneath, the hem did not drop over the last hoops. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com Happier in the Germanic garb because of all the fabric you get to wear and no hoops;) *PoF, History of Costume by Payne etc etc. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 27/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 04:33:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T8XUi8002125 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 04:33:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T8WThd090052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 02:32:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T8WPF5058003; Sun, 29 May 2005 02:32:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T8WM5B057984 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 02:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j4T8HMG3027231 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 03:17:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 03:24:48 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? In-Reply-To: <42989F00.4050108@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is an interesting question and depends on your definition of "lace." If you mean bobbin lace or reticella-type needlelace, the earliest we can prove to is 16th century. If you're talking about draw-thread work or passemaine/passementerie, it gets a lot hazier...I attended an interesting paper at Kalamazoo about 5 years ago on some passementerie type work found in a Viking grave. Santina Levey's "Lace: A History" (ISBN: 090128615X )is a useful source to check for sure. Cheers, Danielle At 09:40 AM 5/28/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have seen >of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? > >Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 04:33:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4T8Xfl5002130 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 04:33:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4T8X6S3090107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 02:33:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T8X5bq058224; Sun, 29 May 2005 02:33:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4T8WwCp058151 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 02:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j4T8WsoY017944 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 03:32:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529032824.00bf6708@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 03:32:46 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question regarding renaissance In-Reply-To: <000c01c563f0$c3cd4e00$21542fd8@Sandra> References: <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, As to the question of middle-class women not wearing farthingales, the short answer is yes. This de Heere drawing gives a good example: http://costume.dm.net/gallery/images/middle-wmn.gif Don't forget, even middle-class and upper-class women had some work to do and it isn't practical or logical to wear what one would wear to court (i.e. full court gown with farthingale, etc...) to supervise the linen inventory or soap-making, or whatever it is they had to do. As for the practical aspect, Michaela gave you a good starting point. Cheers, Danielle At 09:50 PM 5/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I apologize for the beginner level of the question here, but Renaissance >is not really my period, and I'm hoping someone more experienced can >give me advice. > >Regarding farthingales: Can a well-dressed middle class woman go without >one, or is that strictly a peasant-class thing to do? > >Having been to many ren faires and SCA events, many people's >farthingales tend to look wrong, at least to my eyes. Mostly too short >and the skirt stretched too tightly over them. > >If one simply must wear a hoop, how does one get the graceful look of >Shakespeare in Love or Elizabeth? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 06:45:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TAj3ao007537 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 06:45:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TAiE3q096456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 04:44:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TAiBGM097818; Sun, 29 May 2005 04:44:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TAi72p097790 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 04:44:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.167]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 87DA15EE063 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 12:44:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c5643b$56be5750$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 12:44:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] angle of skirt X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I have ben studying the revolution of fashion book, and i am a little confused. Overskirts of dresses seems to me to be "angle tilted" a little to the sides. I just want to hear others oppinion as i am going to cut out fabrics for embroidering panels of overskirt. I plan to place my pattern on the square angle, and then tilt the skirt a little when i am draping it to the bodice. Is this the right way to do it? I am especially thinking about the dress on page 69 in the taschen version of Kyoto Museum. I think it clearly is to be seen as the fabric is striped. I have finally finished the long strip of trimming i am using for the bullions. It is edged with tiny tiny gold spangles and has taken me such a long time to make. Now comes the fun part with the chenille flowers. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 06:55:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TAtLZT007565 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 06:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TAsXBB097541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 04:54:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TAsWaO001485; Sun, 29 May 2005 04:54:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TAsUMw001462 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 04:54:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.167]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7980F5EE013 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 12:54:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001701c5643c$cee533b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42989F00.4050108@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 12:54:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Saragrace. Oldest piece i have seen in Denmark is on a portrait from 1580. The kings sister. Gold lace on black bodice. But i am sure that metallic lace is as old as bobbin lace itself. First written proof of bobbin lace is in a letter written 14-9- 1493 in Milan of a member of the italian Sforza family. As for needle laces i am not sure, but i think it is much more difficult to make metallic needlelace, as the thread bends and is difficult to handle. Bobbin lace is much easyer to do with metal threads. The earlyest bobbin laces are plated laces. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" To: Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 6:40 PM Subject: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? > Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have seen > of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? > > Thanks, Sg > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 09:36:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TDakdE008641 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 09:36:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TDZkgT020540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 07:35:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TDZeNA055172; Sun, 29 May 2005 07:35:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TDZbB3055151 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 07:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m201.in-tch.com [216.166.191.201]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4TDUhV18031 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 07:30:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 07:41:16 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just automatically assumed that Saragrace was referring to bobbin or needle laces, and not to narrow wares or embroidery (which is how I'd classify the drawn-thread work myself, since it's done with fabric, regardless of how much of it is missing ).... --sue's additional 2 pence worth Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > That is an interesting question and depends on your definition of > "lace." If you mean bobbin lace or reticella-type needlelace, the > earliest we can prove to is 16th century. If you're talking about > draw-thread work or passemaine/passementerie, it gets a lot hazier...I > attended an interesting paper at Kalamazoo about 5 years ago on some > passementerie type work found in a Viking grave. Santina Levey's "Lace: > A History" (ISBN: 090128615X )is a useful source to check for sure. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > At 09:40 AM 5/28/2005 -0700, you wrote: > >> Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have >> seen of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? >> >> Thanks, Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 10:38:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TEcNj3009455 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 10:38:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TEbSLV024811 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 08:37:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TEbPIJ080036; Sun, 29 May 2005 08:37:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TEbNUh080002 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 08:37:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.247]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050529143716.OHVE1984.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 09:37:16 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050529092847.029f8650@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 09:37:12 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050528152456.02a833b0@mail.alltel.net> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050528152456.02a833b0@mail.alltel.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4TEbNUh080002 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Scandinavia Trip suggestions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks everyone for your suggestions Picked up a guidebook this weekend and started looking seriously at fares and routings between cities. Beth At 03:28 PM 5/28/2005, you wrote: >ave you checked the Drachenwald web site? You might want to get in touch >with some of the chatelaines of the local groups and see what they might >recommend. Visby is always a Blast! > >Regina Romsey >------------------------------------------------- >There is the Roskilde Cathedral where all the kings and queens are buried. >At Roskilde also the Viking museum, and you should go to the local history >museum there as well. I think they have the new replica of Margrethe I's >gown. >Frederiksborg Castle in Hillerřd has the largest collection of portraits in >the country and also Rosenborg Palace in Copenhagen. >There is an old Viking city "reconstructed" called Fyrkat. > >Bjarne >--------------------------------------------------- >I went to Oslo several years ago and had a super time. I've got a >travel diary on my website which might give you some ideas: > >http://www.virtue.to/articles/Oslo.html > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent >------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 11:31:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TFVdHB010075 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 11:31:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TFUsPV028461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 09:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TFUpvB002130; Sun, 29 May 2005 09:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TFUm19002099 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 09:30:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DcPkW-0000ST-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 29 May 2005 11:30:48 -0400 Message-ID: <4299E036.7070106@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 08:31:02 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> In-Reply-To: <4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, I don't know what I am refering to. :) I am not likely to pay to have special lace made for anything I wear. I just remember that one of the constructive criticisms (which I solicited) about my first Ren costume back in 1998 was that it was unlikely that the lace was correct http://www.saragrace.net/images/German/puff_slv.jpg I wouldn't expect to be able to show that the exact lace was defensible historically. I guess the extent to which I am willing to "defend" it, is that lace of some kind was being made from metallic thread. I haven't really seen anything which looks like metallic lace except on that fashion doll from the 1600s. (I am sure it is online somewhere, but I can't seem to find it right now. It shows up in QEWU.) Bjarn, do these portraits appear online anywhere that you know of? "Oldest piece i have seen in Denmark is on a portrait from 1580. The kings sister. Gold lace on black bodice. But i am sure that metallic lace is as old as bobbin lace itself." The reason I ask is I have been cleaning up my stash and have, ahem, "buttloads," of various kinds. :-* Thanks all! Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 11:58:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TFwtBd010561 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 11:58:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TFwAab030223 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 09:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TFw705012722; Sun, 29 May 2005 09:58:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4TFw3KB012640 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 09:58:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2005 15:57:57 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050529165254.014dd2f8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 16:57:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? In-Reply-To: <4299E036.7070106@earthlink.net> References: <4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:31 29/05/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Actually, I don't know what I am refering to. :) I am not likely to pay to >have special lace made for anything I wear. I just remember that one of >the constructive criticisms (which I solicited) about my first Ren costume >back in 1998 was that it was unlikely that the lace was correct >http://www.saragrace.net/images/German/puff_slv.jpg > >I wouldn't expect to be able to show that the exact lace was defensible >historically. I guess the extent to which I am willing to "defend" it, is >that lace of some kind was being made from metallic thread. I haven't >really seen anything which looks like metallic lace except on that fashion >doll from the 1600s. (I am sure it is online somewhere, but I can't seem >to find it right now. It shows up in QEWU.) Bjarn, do these portraits >appear online anywhere that you know of? > >"Oldest piece i have seen in Denmark is on a portrait from 1580. The kings >sister. Gold lace on black bodice. But i am sure that metallic lace is as >old as bobbin lace itself." > >The reason I ask is I have been cleaning up my stash and have, ahem, >"buttloads," of various kinds. :-* One of the Soper Lane ladies has this page http://www.et-tu.com/soper-lane/access/gold.htm which gives information on the use of metal thread and braid. You may find it useful. I went to a series of talks on narrow wares but don't remember anything in the whole day that referred to metallic lace or braid. However, I saw a beautiful piece of gold lace at a Study Day on the 17th century earlier in the year, and I am pretty sure I have seen 16th century metallic lace. However, the kind of braid that you have in your photo tends to be sold in Indian shops over here, and might not be considered appropriate for your "period". Personally I don't have a lot of problems with the lace!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 15:11:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TJB4IV013582 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 15:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TJA8WL045061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 13:10:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TJA2Bs090958; Sun, 29 May 2005 13:10:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TJ9w6h090907 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 13:09:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7bea7.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.167]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 54E8747FE34 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 21:09:57 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002101c56482$0afd0f90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com><4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> <4299E036.7070106@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 21:10:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Saragrace. In Arnolds Patterns of Fashion there is a childs dress wich has metallic lace on it. Dont remember wich time. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? > Actually, I don't know what I am refering to. :) I am not likely to pay to > have special lace made for anything I wear. I just remember that one of > the constructive criticisms (which I solicited) about my first Ren costume > back in 1998 was that it was unlikely that the lace was correct > http://www.saragrace.net/images/German/puff_slv.jpg > > I wouldn't expect to be able to show that the exact lace was defensible > historically. I guess the extent to which I am willing to "defend" it, is > that lace of some kind was being made from metallic thread. I haven't > really seen anything which looks like metallic lace except on that fashion > doll from the 1600s. (I am sure it is online somewhere, but I can't seem > to find it right now. It shows up in QEWU.) Bjarn, do these portraits > appear online anywhere that you know of? > > "Oldest piece i have seen in Denmark is on a portrait from 1580. The kings > sister. Gold lace on black bodice. But i am sure that metallic lace is as > old as bobbin lace itself." > > The reason I ask is I have been cleaning up my stash and have, ahem, > "buttloads," of various kinds. :-* > > > Thanks all! > Sg > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 15:30:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TJUO3N013816 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 15:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TJTjC0046441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 13:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TJTiIo098650; Sun, 29 May 2005 13:29:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4TJTfTS098623 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 13:29:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-18303); Sun, 29 May 2005 12:28:01 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sun, 29 May 2005 12:27:48 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050529122846.00dabe20@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 12:29:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? In-Reply-To: <002101c56482$0afd0f90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> <4299E036.7070106@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's late 16th century. Joan At 09:10 PM 5/29/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Saragrace. >In Arnolds Patterns of Fashion there is a childs dress wich has metallic >lace on it. Dont remember wich time. > >Bjarne > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Wicked Frau" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 5:31 PM >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? > > >>Actually, I don't know what I am refering to. :) I am not likely to pay >>to have special lace made for anything I wear. I just remember that one >>of the constructive criticisms (which I solicited) about my first Ren >>costume back in 1998 was that it was unlikely that the lace was correct >>http://www.saragrace.net/images/German/puff_slv.jpg >> >>I wouldn't expect to be able to show that the exact lace was defensible >>historically. I guess the extent to which I am willing to "defend" it, is >>that lace of some kind was being made from metallic thread. I haven't >>really seen anything which looks like metallic lace except on that >>fashion doll from the 1600s. (I am sure it is online somewhere, but I >>can't seem to find it right now. It shows up in QEWU.) Bjarn, do these >>portraits appear online anywhere that you know of? >> >>"Oldest piece i have seen in Denmark is on a portrait from 1580. The >>kings sister. Gold lace on black bodice. But i am sure that metallic lace >>is as old as bobbin lace itself." >> >>The reason I ask is I have been cleaning up my stash and have, ahem, >>"buttloads," of various kinds. :-* >> >> >>Thanks all! >>Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 16:23:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TKNNph014454 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 16:23:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TKMKjY050069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 14:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TKMHmk019159; Sun, 29 May 2005 14:22:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from nmail1.systems.pipex.net (nmail1.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TKMDAH019095 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 14:22:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from nmail1.systems.pipex.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nmail1.systems.pipex.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4TKM7p5026482 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 21:22:07 +0100 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by nmail1.systems.pipex.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j4TKM7iG026481 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 29 May 2005 21:22:07 +0100 Received: from 81.178.189.31 ( [81.178.189.31]) as user melp12@dsl.pipex.com by netmail.pipex.net with HTTP; Sun, 29 May 2005 21:22:06 +0100 Message-ID: <1117398126.429a246f01dfb@netmail.pipex.net> Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 21:22:07 +0100 From: linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: PIPEX NetMail (IMP3.1) X-Originating-IP: 81.178.189.31 X-PIPEX-Username: melp12%dsl.pipex.com X-Usage: PIPEX NetMail is subject to the standard PIPEX terms and conditions of use X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Scottish Borders in 1790 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This week I'm on holiday, so I was able to listen to a repeat of a radio programme, which was first broadcst on Saturday 21 May 2005. Here is some of the detail:- "On this week's Open Country, Richard is travelling not only in distance, but also in time. In the Scottish Borders, he visits the lowly cottage of Fiona Houston - who has abandoned the 21st century and is spending a whole year living in 1790." There's more at:- http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/opencountry_20050521.shtml and also a link to the 'listen again' facility. (But don't wait too long, I think it may be removed after Thursday of next week.) If the link doesn't work for you, go to http://www.bbc.co.uk and follow the trail through 'Radio', 'Radio 4', the 'Open Country' website, to 'Previous Programmes - Last Week'. It lasts 30 minutes, and I can assure you that it's a fascinating account by someone who's taking seriously her commitment to authentic living, with detailed descriptions of her clothes, home and way of life. Linda Walton, (High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). -- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 19:30:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4TNUQvb017118 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 19:30:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4TNTRQ0062259 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 17:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TNTOFj091966; Sun, 29 May 2005 17:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4TNTLJJ091920 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 17:29:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005052923291601400dlisne>; Sun, 29 May 2005 23:29:16 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c564a6$3e66f250$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <003c01c561ab$03f22570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67><4295A22C.1000708@optonline.net><42960315.4030208@earthlink.net> <003301c562ed$25b112a0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Queens of Society Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 19:29:21 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have online the index webpage to the Duchess of Marlborough. You can take a look without having a subscription to our Library. http://www.costumegallery.com/QueensSociety/Sarah/sarah2.htm Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 20:26:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4U0Q4DK017827 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 20:26:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4U0PIdS066198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 18:25:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U0PGoG013362; Sun, 29 May 2005 18:25:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U0PCik013317 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 18:25:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03EDE3C0C1 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 19:25:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B2F8614FA2 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 19:25:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest? Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 19:25:16 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <002101c56482$0afd0f90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Janet Arnold,PoF 1560 -1620 P. 21, Detail 133 -...The yellow silk braid is 6 mm (1/4) wide. It is enriched with silver metal thread. (from a youths jacket estimated c.1595 - 1605) P.42, detail 300 - Detail of gold and silver bobbin lace used to decorate the hem of the gown...... (dress alleged to be worn in 1600) p.44, detail 316 - ....enriched with metal stripes. P.47 detail 337 - Detail of gold and silver metal bobbin lace trimming the velvet gown. (gown c.1598) This pretty much establishes the use in late 1500s. Now we just need docs. for late 1400s and early 1500s. De -----Original Message----- Hi Saragrace. In Arnolds Patterns of Fashion there is a childs dress wich has metallic lace on it. Dont remember wich time. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 21:00:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4U108vG018200 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 21:00:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4U0xEOD068326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 18:59:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U0xCcr026021; Sun, 29 May 2005 18:59:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U0x9wx025993 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 18:59:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m8.in-tch.com [216.166.191.8]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4U0sCV25391 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 18:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <429A66AE.1080204@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 19:04:46 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest?-long post References: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529031735.00b73648@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <4299C67C.2040508@in-tch.com> <4299E036.7070106@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4299E036.7070106@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I gotta admit ignorance of most 16th century German fashions, but I've not seen, I don't think, lace used on sleeves as you did. And I can't get a really good close-up of the braid, so I couldn't comment on the pattern one way or the other, but it certainly doesn't look any worse than some of the torchon-looking bobbin lace I've seen on other gowns in the SCA. Most of the gold I associate with German clothing is embroidered in various ways, but that's just what has stayed in my PUFF file*, and not necessarily all of the truth of the matter. *(a PUFF file is that part of your brain that stores Perfectly Useless Facts and Figures). But metal threads were *certainly* used in the 16th century to create various laces and braids. Most of what I've got evidence of is for metallic bobbin laces, braids, and embroidery. I haven't seen much that would confirm the use of metallic threads in needlelaces, at least in a quick tour through my bookcases this afternoon. The early bobbin laces were usually plaited, and that's a technique that wouldn't have been *too* stressful on the threads. My wonderful several-inch thick notebook from the class I took from Drea is unfortunately on loan to a friend in Idaho (and that's where most of my best examples are stored), but I recall these: *There's a portrait of Henry VIII, in which he clearly has what I've always thought to be bobbin lace on the collar of his shirt (not as a ruffle, but more like embroidery done flat around the strip of fabric used for the collar) *A portrait of (I think) Mary Stuart, when she was the Dauphine--she's wearing a rose/pink dress, with narrow lines of braid or bobbin lace, clearly gold/metallic *There's a portrait (about the same time as the previous one), by Clouet? maybe?, of a woman in the French court--she's wearing what I remember as a golden brown dress, decorated with gold (satin?) bands on the bodice, and the bands are very distinctly edged with a very simple, gold-metallic bobbin lace. *There are a lot of portraits in my various (mostly English-oriented) 16th century costuming texts that clearly have gold edgings on neck and wrist ruffs--not always possible to distinguish between an embroidered edge and a lace edge, nor between bobbin lace or needle lace, but some of it's distinctly lacy. *One of my bobbin lace books has a tiny little detail of a "16th century torah decorated in silver thread lace." It's part of a collection in the Jewish Museum in Prague. The lace is clearly bobbin lace. *My copy of _Le Pompe_ (1559) has a good picture of a 16th c. plaited bobbin lace intended for use on furnishings. It is made from gold and silver, both. It also looks *very* much like the bobbin lace on the dress worn by Grafin Katharina zur Lippe when she was buried (at the age of 6, in 1600). *Also in _Patterns of Fashion_ is the burial gown of Pfalsgrafin Dorothea Sabina von Neuberg (buried in 1598). The gown is trimmed quite a bit with gold and silver bobbin laces, as are the undersleeves. Also, there's the Italian loose gown (1610-1615) which was originally decorated with bands of simple silver bobbin lace (and silver spangles). There are other similar examples in the same book--Arnold deduces the original presence of bobbin lace from fragments left on the garments, since it was apparently sometimes removed and used on other garments. *There are a *lot* of late-16th, early-17th century Spanish portraits in which the women's gowns are lavishly trimmed with gold bobbin lace. *ISTR a fair number of Italian and French portraits that show the use of bobbin lace in strips on camicias and shifts, but those could also be embroidery. *My single favorite source for proof of 16th century metallic laces has got to be _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked_. There are dozens and dozens of written descriptions (from the inventories) of garments trimmed in various kinds of metallic lace, portraits of people wearing garments decorated with bands of metallic lace, and some examples of extant metallic laces. Just on p. 266 is a half-portrait (1565-70) by a follower of Antonio Mor, in which the sitter (a woman) is wearing a French gown in red velvet trimmed with gold bobbin lace. The picture next to her (in the book) is a "detail of gold and silver bobbin lace bordering a chalice veil, Spanish or Italian, mid-sixteenth century. It is worked with seed pearls and glass beads in the design." So I guess my random examples would show a pretty wide-spread use of metallic laces in Europe, or at least in those parts of Europe that were using bobbin laces. Doesn't seem to be a fashion or technique particular to any one country. Shows up a lot for clothing, but also for finer furnishings, and not always secular (vis-a-vis the chalic veil). Oh, and there's a fashion doll with metallic lace on her dress in _QEUnlocked_. Perhaps that's what you were thinking of? Hope this doesn't count as an overload of information--I guess my fingers felt "chatty" tonight. And, darnitall, looking through my 16th century stuff gives me the urge to make some of it again! (Must resist the impulse....must stick to current plan and 14th c. personal....must be good.....aaaaaaaah!!!! ;o) --sue Wicked Frau wrote: > Actually, I don't know what I am refering to. :) I am not likely to pay > to have special lace made for anything I wear. I just remember that one > of the constructive criticisms (which I solicited) about my first Ren > costume back in 1998 was that it was unlikely that the lace was correct > http://www.saragrace.net/images/German/puff_slv.jpg > > I wouldn't expect to be able to show that the exact lace was defensible > historically. I guess the extent to which I am willing to "defend" it, > is that lace of some kind was being made from metallic thread. I haven't > really seen anything which looks like metallic lace except on that > fashion doll from the 1600s. (I am sure it is online somewhere, but I > can't seem to find it right now. It shows up in QEWU.) Bjarn, do these > portraits appear online anywhere that you know of? > > "Oldest piece i have seen in Denmark is on a portrait from 1580. The > kings sister. Gold lace on black bodice. But i am sure that metallic > lace is as old as bobbin lace itself." > > The reason I ask is I have been cleaning up my stash and have, ahem, > "buttloads," of various kinds. :-* > > > Thanks all! > Sg > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 22:20:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4U2K6E6019092 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 22:20:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4U2JCCN073723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 20:19:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U2J9qw057190; Sun, 29 May 2005 20:19:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f20.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U2IvhX057100 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 20:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 29 May 2005 19:18:52 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 30 May 2005 02:18:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.200] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505281800.j4SI0ai4052034@net.indra.com> From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 02:18:52 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2005 02:18:52.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[EC237370:01C564BD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Trip X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Go to the Lejre Experimental Center. It is fantastic. The highlight of my Denmark trip. Berenice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun May 29 22:20:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4U2K6L7019091 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 22:20:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4U2JCAX073720 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 May 2005 20:19:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U2J9vQ057194; Sun, 29 May 2005 20:19:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f20.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U2IvvK057097 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 20:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pottratzwaack@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 29 May 2005 19:18:52 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 30 May 2005 02:18:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.200] X-Originating-Email: [pottratzwaack@hotmail.com] X-Sender: pottratzwaack@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200505281800.j4SI0ai4052034@net.indra.com> From: "Laura Waack" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 02:18:52 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2005 02:18:52.0327 (UTC) FILETIME=[EC237370:01C564BD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Trip X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Go to the Lejre Experimental Center. It is fantastic. The highlight of my Denmark trip. Berenice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 02:13:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4U6Dh28025858 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 02:13:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4U6BxHn088752 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 00:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U6Br4i045360; Mon, 30 May 2005 00:11:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U6Bpb1045346 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 00:11:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C87A3BF85 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 01:11:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EBFD1DB8A for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 01:11:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 01:11:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <429A66AE.1080204@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Saxony sleeve treatment. was metallic lace X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.wga.hu/index1.html Click on C " " " Cranach the Elder " " " Miscellanious paintings Scroll down to third from the bottom, (Salome) Click and enlarge. Note upper part of the sleeve. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 09:25:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UDPlQx026483 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 09:25:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UDOuUq048846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 07:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UDOmhh004653; Mon, 30 May 2005 07:24:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UDOivL004633 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 07:24:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from [4.249.93.218] (dialup-4.249.93.218.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.93.218]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j4UDOekq023818 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 06:24:41 -0700 Message-ID: <429B14AD.10106@oldwaylane.net> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 09:27:09 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Trip References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050527132316.02bd0ec0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050527132316.02bd0ec0@mail.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > We are thinking of a trip to Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) late > this summer. What museums and sites would you recommend for someone > interested in early to medieval (pre-17th century) history, textiles and > costuming? Viking ship museum,... Well if you want viking museums.... my favorites are the National Museum in Copenhagen, Ribe Vikinger Museum in Ribe & down the road is the viking center (which is a 'manor' house and market rebuilt and staffed even lots of oxen and hawks!), Fyrkat Fort in Hobro is fun (another viking town). Roskilde ship museum is ok - it has great shopping, but unless you're really turned on by ship hulls there really isn't much else (a small selection of wooden things in a couple of displays, but the main thing is the ships. You can look at them, but that's it). If you've got the time, contact the Danish Embassy and ask them for their museum guide. They've got a free book listing all the museums along with locations and times, and a short blurb about them. I know there were some textile type museums in northern Jutland, but I don't remember off-hand (didn't get to them). -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 10:22:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UEM6GD027333 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:22:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UELFgt052648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 08:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UELDI8029716; Mon, 30 May 2005 08:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UELBR4029688 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 08:21:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.21.116] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Dcl8g-0000eh-63 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:21:10 -0400 Message-ID: <006101c56522$d3377e50$74159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1117398126.429a246f01dfb@netmail.pipex.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scottish Borders in 1790 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 10:20:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0bf58dcf83ecf4fc685a035550b21141b3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.116 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you for that link- excellent program. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 11:15:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UFF18M028137 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 11:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UFDvg6057176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 09:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UFDtLM054690; Mon, 30 May 2005 09:13:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UFDquN054667 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 09:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m226.in-tch.com [216.166.191.226]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4UF8vV05504 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 09:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <429B2F02.307@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 09:19:30 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Saxony sleeve treatment. was metallic lace References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Good example of use of goldwork, but the resolution on my monitor (or perhaps, just the resolution available from the site) doesn't give me sufficient detail to allow me to figure out whether that's embroidery or lace--looks like it could be either one, or even some sort of brocade strips. I noticed there's a lot more of the same, in varying widths, decorating the skirt. Neat example, though, even *with* the head of John the Baptist cluttering up my leisurely costuming sidetrip. ;-D --sue otsisto wrote: > http://www.wga.hu/index1.html > Click on C > " " " Cranach the Elder > " " " Miscellanious paintings > Scroll down to third from the bottom, (Salome) > Click and enlarge. > Note upper part of the sleeve. > > De > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 11:32:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UFWLS3028413 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 11:32:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UFVctv058823 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 09:31:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UFVZA4063366; Mon, 30 May 2005 09:31:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net (vms046pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UFVW7i063343 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 09:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jeanine@woollycat.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([70.19.179.119]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IHB00FA374EXEV1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:31:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 11:39:09 -0400 From: "Jeanine E. Swick" To: ICG-D list , Historic Costume Message-id: <429B339D.7020302@woollycat.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 'Seamless' show wired for success - MIT News Office X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A while back on one of the lists someone was asking about materials for construction an inflatable dress. I wonder if it was for this: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2005/seamless-0518.html Jeanine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 12:21:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UGLjHX029206 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:21:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UGKoVY063507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 10:20:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UGKmrh088320; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:20:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UGKjSk088235 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:20:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.112 ([204.127.197.112]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050530162040013004k2kie>; Mon, 30 May 2005 16:20:40 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.112; Mon, 30 May 2005 16:20:38 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 16:20:38 +0000 Message-Id: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Take a look at the gloves in the 5th portrait up from the bottom. Slashing at the knuckles are awesome. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > http://www.wga.hu/index1.html > Click on C > " " " Cranach the Elder > " " " Miscellanious paintings > Scroll down to third from the bottom, (Salome) > Click and enlarge. > Note upper part of the sleeve. > > De > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 12:27:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UGRnaC029301 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:27:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UGR3sM064157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 10:27:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UGR1Kv091367; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:27:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UGQw29091291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:27:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UGQrSS003932 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 11:26:53 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Mon, 30 May 2005 11:26:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <48247.165.236.184.195.1117470413.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A 0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> References: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 11:26:53 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ya know, I never would have quessed she was wearing gloves, damn, I hate it when I miss a good pair of gloves in my research . :( Got some time coming so that I can go searching all the new pictures online!! :) Chiara glovemaker On Mon, May 30, 2005 11:20 am, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net said: > Take a look at the gloves in the 5th portrait up from the bottom. > Slashing at the knuckles are awesome. > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> http://www.wga.hu/index1.html >> Click on C >> " " " Cranach the Elder >> " " " Miscellanious paintings >> Scroll down to third from the bottom, (Salome) >> Click and enlarge. >> Note upper part of the sleeve. >> >> De >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 12:48:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UGmsNu029640 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UGmBja065850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 10:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UGmAhC001574; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UGm7Ot001522 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 10:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (unknown[204.127.197.127](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050530164802014001j87ee>; Mon, 30 May 2005 16:48:02 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.111; Mon, 30 May 2005 16:48:01 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 16:48:01 +0000 Message-Id: <053020051648.24144.429B43C1000C6FB500005E5022058891160809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm glad I could help! I'd actually would love to make these pair. Do you have any suggestions oh how I could? What kind of materials, etc? -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Ya know, I never would have quessed she was wearing gloves, damn, I > hate it when I miss a good pair of gloves in my research . :( > > Got some time coming so that I can go searching all the new pictures > online!! :) > > Chiara > glovemaker > > On Mon, May 30, 2005 11:20 am, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net said: > > Take a look at the gloves in the 5th portrait up from the bottom. > > Slashing at the knuckles are awesome. > > -- > > Slan go foill > > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > > > Emer's Needle Wares > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > >> http://www.wga.hu/index1.html > >> Click on C > >> " " " Cranach the Elder > >> " " " Miscellanious paintings > >> Scroll down to third from the bottom, (Salome) > >> Click and enlarge. > >> Note upper part of the sleeve. > >> > >> De > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 13:43:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UHhsAV030384 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 13:43:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UHgtZ9070331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 11:42:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UHgqcO027587; Mon, 30 May 2005 11:42:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UHgn9d027527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 11:42:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UHgi0w004501 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:42:44 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <49230.165.236.184.195.1117474964.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <053020051648.24144.429B43C1000C6FB500005E5022058891160809070E029D0E0A 0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> References: <053020051648.24144.429B43C1000C6FB500005E5022058891160809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 12:42:44 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You want to find half oz. kid leather. There is a lot of nice soft suedes out there now a days that is easy to work with in 1.5 to 2 oz weight but it will not create the effect you are going for like in this picture. Esp. if you have not stretched the leather properly or cut it from the correct locations of the piece of leather. I would try out a pair in felt first since it closely mimic's leather. You can find that weight at a leather house in New York, I am having to work today so I do not have that info with me, and Napa leather in Napa California is the other leather house that carries half oz. The other kind of leather you would want is UltraFino which is illegal to sell in the US. But you can obtain it from Canada easily. Disclaimer: I am not advocating that anyone purchase this type of leather. Hope that helps on the leather search part. The rest will have to wait until I get home and someone reminds me to check email again. :) Ciao, Chiara glovemaker On Mon, May 30, 2005 11:48 am, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net said: > I'm glad I could help! I'd actually would love to make these pair. > Do you have any suggestions oh how I could? What kind of materials, > etc? > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> Ya know, I never would have quessed she was wearing gloves, damn, >> I >> hate it when I miss a good pair of gloves in my research . :( >> >> Got some time coming so that I can go searching all the new >> pictures >> online!! :) >> >> Chiara >> glovemaker >> >> On Mon, May 30, 2005 11:20 am, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net >> said: >> > Take a look at the gloves in the 5th portrait up from the >> bottom. >> > Slashing at the knuckles are awesome. >> > -- >> > Slan go foill >> > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri >> > >> > Emer's Needle Wares >> > >> > -------------- Original message -------------- >> > >> >> http://www.wga.hu/index1.html >> >> Click on C >> >> " " " Cranach the Elder >> >> " " " Miscellanious paintings >> >> Scroll down to third from the bottom, (Salome) >> >> Click and enlarge. >> >> Note upper part of the sleeve. >> >> >> >> De >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> h-costume mailing list >> >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > _______________________________________________ >> > h-costume mailing list >> > h-costume@mail.indra.com >> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 14:11:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UIBslX030905 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:11:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UIBDIW072907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 12:11:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIBCo4041100; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:11:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:5Uc+vlaf4CUqBAG21UGk3/NgIkFdBTXr@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIB93D041046 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.182] (pool180-55.patriot.net [209.249.180.55]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j4UIB5gx002508 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:11:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <49230.165.236.184.195.1117474964.squirrel@165.236.184.195> References: <053020051648.24144.429B43C1000C6FB500005E5022058891160809070E029D0E0A0809 079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <49230.165.236.184.195.1117474964.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 14:10:48 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The other kind of leather you would want is UltraFino which is >illegal to sell in the US. But you can obtain it from Canada easily. >Disclaimer: I am not advocating that anyone purchase this type of >leather. Why is it illegal in the US? What's it made of? -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 14:14:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UIEP4B030982 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:14:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UIDjbb073091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 12:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIDiJP042357; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIDgYD042296 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j4UIDaZ10059 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:13:36 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 11:16:39 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <49230.165.236.184.195.1117474964.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday, May 30, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: > > The other kind of leather you would want is UltraFino which is > illegal to sell in the US. But you can obtain it from Canada easily. > Disclaimer: I am not advocating that anyone purchase this type of > leather. My curiosity compels me to ask why this leather is illegal in the US. Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 14:14:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UIEeKe030988 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:14:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UIE2iv073133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 12:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIE2U4042477; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIDx7r042460 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.74]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E7E30262882 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 20:13:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c56543$5c3664d0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 20:13:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ball at the court X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, It is a great website with all that art. I have found this picture wich i find very interresting with french farthingales. http://www.wga.hu/art/p/pepijn/the_ball.jpg Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 14:18:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UIIw5P031054 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UIIGG7073385 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 12:18:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIIF3E044344; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:18:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIICGu044325 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61AD83BEB7 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 13:18:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2531D15085 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 13:18:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Saxony sleeve treatment. was metallic lace Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 13:18:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <429B2F02.307@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually I was talking about the dagging but I an wondering if this is an unfinished work. Note under the left arm. The skirt is not pulled up so it isn't a band on the skirt and it looks as if a belt was planned or tried to be covered. Surely this is not pearl work so close to the hem. Perhaps it is lace. The woman has similar gloves to the fifth from the bottom. De -----Original Message----- Good example of use of goldwork, but the resolution on my monitor (or perhaps, just the resolution available from the site) doesn't give me sufficient detail to allow me to figure out whether that's embroidery or lace--looks like it could be either one, or even some sort of brocade strips. I noticed there's a lot more of the same, in varying widths, decorating the skirt. Neat example, though, even *with* the head of John the Baptist cluttering up my leisurely costuming sidetrip. ;-D --sue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 14:24:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UIOTN2031155 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:24:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UINXiO073899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 12:23:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UINW21046876; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UINTAO046813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:23:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UINOEC004747 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 13:23:24 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Mon, 30 May 2005 13:23:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <49606.165.236.184.195.1117477404.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: References: <49230.165.236.184.195.1117474964.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 13:23:24 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have no idea what the actual wording of the paper work that makes it illegal says. So forgive me if I am being too broad in my definition. The process to make this type of leather begins with forcebly aborting the animal of the skin type wanted and harvesting the skin. I only know about it being illegal to sell here because someone gave me a gift of it. They told me about it. I have not used it. On Mon, May 30, 2005 1:16 pm, Althea Turner said: > > On Monday, May 30, 2005, at 10:42 AM, Chiara Francesca Arianna > d'Onofrio wrote: >> >> The other kind of leather you would want is UltraFino which is >> illegal to sell in the US. But you can obtain it from Canada >> easily. >> Disclaimer: I am not advocating that anyone purchase this type of >> leather. > > > My curiosity compels me to ask why this leather is illegal in the > US. > > Althea Turner _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 14:46:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UIkGsj031470 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:46:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UIjRVs075618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 12:45:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIj63p057439; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:45:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UIj22P057398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 12:45:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4UIb0mT014695 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:37:00 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 May 2005 14:37:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429B5F2D.80104@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 14:45:01 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. References: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: > Take a look at the gloves in the 5th portrait up from the bottom. Slashing at the knuckles are awesome. Wow -- that's amazing! And having gloves that hadn't gotten caught on everything and torn through half the slashes would have been the significant thing for status, I expect. I like the special slashes to accomodate rings under the gloves. (The closest I've ever done to this was slashing a T-shirt -- that works really well because you don't need to finish the slashes there, either. You can get quite ornamental.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 18:37:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4UMbhXu002738 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 18:37:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4UMassd093713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 16:36:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UMao8a066072; Mon, 30 May 2005 16:36:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UMakKG066037 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 16:36:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.171] (pm5-171.eos.net [205.133.149.171]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j4UMaiwO018920 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 18:36:45 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 18:29:16 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200505301800.j4UI04Vs035373@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 351 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chiara: > The other kind of leather you would want is UltraFino which is > illegal to sell in the US. But you can obtain it from Canada easily. > Disclaimer: I am not advocating that anyone purchase this type of > leather. Why is it illegal to sell in the USA? Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 21:45:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4V1j2k8005348 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 21:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4V1iIDx007133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 19:44:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4V1iDuA048419; Mon, 30 May 2005 19:44:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4U5pm7A036974 for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 23:51:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D6D3BFDE for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 00:51:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B08BD425 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 00:51:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Metallic Lace-Earliest?-long post Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 00:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <429A66AE.1080204@in-tch.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/898/Fri May 27 23:11:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Found this site http://www.geocities.com/carolgallego/lacespain.html Laces in Spain It is not metalic but it is lace. bottom of the apron on the woman in the back. http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/VENETIANCOURTESANS.jpg This could possibly be metalic lace. http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/Licinio21530s.JPG or http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/LadyWithHeron.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 21:46:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4V1k2H0005363 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 21:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4V1jJEu007295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 19:45:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4V1jJOI049107; Mon, 30 May 2005 19:45:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4UFStbT062015 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 09:28:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 320B23FF95 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id AF83F726C; Mon, 30 May 2005 08:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 08:28:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Saxony sleeve treatment. was metallic lace X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.74] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCmzE2AAkQegEAAAAB,c3c124e9c636c4ef424ac07bc95750ab Message-Id: <20050530152854.AF83F726C@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is with that artist and his thing for heads on platters? GROSS! Costumes are neat though. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Sue Clemenger wrote: From: Sue Clemenger Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 09:19:30 -0600 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Saxony sleeve treatment. was metallic lace Good example of use of goldwork, but the resolution on my monitor (or perhaps, just the resolution available from the site) doesn't give me sufficient detail to allow me to figure out whether that's embroidery or lace--looks like it could be either one, or even some sort of brocade strips. I noticed there's a lot more of the same, in varying widths, decorating the skirt. Neat example, though, even *with* the head of John the Baptist cluttering up my leisurely costuming sidetrip. ;-D --sue otsisto wrote: > http://www.wga.hu/index1.html > Click on C > " " " Cranach the Elder > " " " Miscellanious paintings > Scroll down to third from the bottom, (Salome) > Click and enlarge. > Note upper part of the sleeve. > > De > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 22:27:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4V2RmNo005973 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 22:27:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4V2QkwK010477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 20:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4V2QjcR068186; Mon, 30 May 2005 20:26:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4V2QT3A068066 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 20:26:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j4V2IJmT022596 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 22:18:19 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 30 May 2005 22:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429BCB4B.9030905@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:26:19 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Saxony sleeve treatment. was metallic lace References: <20050530152854.AF83F726C@sitemail.everyone.net> In-Reply-To: <20050530152854.AF83F726C@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lalah wrote: > What is with that artist and his thing for heads on platters? GROSS! > Costumes are neat though. It's that Biblical allusion thing, again; this time giving an excuse to have an allegedly religious painting show a hot chick in a pretty dress. Many artists did them. From the online Brittanica: The event is recounted in the gospels of Matthew and Mark, though her name is given only by the historian Josephus. John [the Baptist] had been imprisoned for denouncing Herod's adulterous marriage to Herodias, but Herod was afraid to kill him. When Salome, daughter of Herodias, danced before the king, he promised to give her anything she asked as a reward, and she requested John's head on a platter. The scene was a popular subject in Christian art. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon May 30 22:36:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4V2aFuJ006084 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 22:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4V2Zb0W011060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 30 May 2005 20:35:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4V2Zawq071734; Mon, 30 May 2005 20:35:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4V2ZYiB071722 for ; Mon, 30 May 2005 20:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-44-202.jps.net ([209.165.44.202] helo=[209.165.45.93]) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DcwbM-0001IY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 30 May 2005 22:35:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050529032824.00bf6708@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <000401c5608e$adc8fce0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <5.0.0.25.2.20050529032824.00bf6708@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 19:30:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Question regarding renaissance X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:50 PM 5/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I apologize for the beginner level of the question here, but Renaissance >is not really my period, and I'm hoping someone more experienced can >give me advice. > >Regarding farthingales: Can a well-dressed middle class woman go without >one, or is that strictly a peasant-class thing to do? Definitely. As far as I know, the evidence from period portraits, tomb sculptures, et cetera seems to indicate that many people at Renaissance Faires are "over-dressed" by period standards, and specifically, that a lot of middle-class characters wear farthingales at Faire when the historical person probably would not have done so in the 16th century. Of course the reasons so many people wear farthingales at Faire are quite understandable -- farthingales are exotic and add to the "this is not the 21st century" feel of things. They're also cooler, if (as is so often the case) you're stuck with an attempt to wear clothing designed for cold, damp England in a hot American summer climate. >Having been to many ren faires and SCA events, many people's >farthingales tend to look wrong, at least to my eyes. Mostly too short >and the skirt stretched too tightly over them. I heartily agree, especially the too-short part. A lot of people will assume their "long skirts" ought to be at a length that seems comfortable and reasonable to moderns, i.e. just touching the top of the foot or even "ankle length." I've seen them as much as 4 inches off the floor. But the people whose research I depend on seem to agree that if you're wearing a 16th-c farthingale, your gown should really just about touch the ground all around. (And BTW, for outdoor environments, especially Faire settings that tend to be sprayed with modern fire retardant or other nasty chemicals, a protective piping on the bottom of such skirts is a good idea.) As for "too tightly stretched," I see a lot of people with hoop lines showing through to the outer skirt. I certainly think that not enough yardage at hoop level is a big part of the problem -- often due to choosing an outer skirt fabric that's expensive and then trying to skimp on it. But contributing to the problem also are choosing an outer skirt fabric that's too lightweight (satin, for instance) and not wearing enough petticoats _over_ the farthingale, between it and the outer skirt (it needs at least one, and two is better). BTW, my farthingale, smocks and petticoats are _all_ 100% linen, to maximize the cooling effect as much as possible. It really does make a difference. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 31 07:08:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4VB8o1l014059 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 07:08:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4VB7nYu057313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 05:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VB7gaW072421; Tue, 31 May 2005 05:07:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VB7bK7072350 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 05:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050531110731.BTIR2892.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 23:07:31 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.200.185]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050531110730.ROWF16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 23:07:30 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [267.3.0]); Tue, 31 May 2005 23:07:41 +1200 Message-ID: <00a901c565d0$f676a220$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <429B5F2D.80104@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:07:39 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/899/Mon May 30 00:57:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Take a look at the gloves in the 5th portrait up from the bottom. Slashing at the knuckles are awesome. > > Wow -- that's amazing! And having gloves that hadn't gotten caught on > everything and torn through half the slashes would have been the > significant thing for status, I expect. In the case of some of the paintings completely unrealistic;) At least one of his Salome's.. or Judith's... Judith probably as she's actually holding the sword, shows a ring over the glove at the base of the finger and under the glove further up the finger. Both rings having stones. Unless the outer one was hinged.... I can't find it on my page: http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/cranach.htm Which means it could be a nice version of one of the images on gabrius. http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/gabriuscran.htm There are a number of these slashed gloves on those two pages especially. I suspect I've seen them in woodcuts as well. So am I to take it with the number of people not familiar with German dress of the early 16thC that there are a few new people interested;)? michaela de bruce Weird German Renaissance Dress Fancier, currently working on a 1560s Westfalen dress, and possibly going to make a late 1490s Cologne dress.... http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 31 09:18:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4VDIfch016017 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 09:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4VDH9Su066650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 07:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VDH6wV031720; Tue, 31 May 2005 07:17:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VDH3f3031694 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 07:17:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m234.in-tch.com [216.166.191.234]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j4VDC8V12585 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 07:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <429C6522.8000206@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 07:22:42 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. References: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <429B5F2D.80104@thibault.org> <00a901c565d0$f676a220$0301010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <00a901c565d0$f676a220$0301010a@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/900/Tue May 31 04:50:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/900/Tue May 31 04:50:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not necessarily...definitely not, in my case. It's just not something I've ever had time for. I've spent most of my costuming time in the 16th century (primarily England and France), and in the Italian states of the 15th & 16th centuries, but I've got to juggle so many competing interests (earlier styles of clothing, dabbling in 18th c. stuff, and then there's the different kinds of needlework, and the lacemaking, and ......). Right now, I'm spending a lot of time working with fiber in earlier states--spinning, combing, carding, knitting, weaving. I've always wanted to explore late 15th/early 16th century German clothing--I love the hats, and the pleating of the skirts, and all the use of pearls, and the really yummy whitework and smocking. I just haven't had the time to explore it in any depth! --sue, currently also working on some 10th c. western-Norse stuff for tourney season.... michaela wrote: > So am I to take it with the number of people not familiar with German dress > of the early 16thC that there are a few new people interested;)? > > michaela de bruce > Weird German Renaissance Dress Fancier, currently working on a 1560s > Westfalen dress, and possibly going to make a late 1490s Cologne dress.... > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 31 09:28:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4VDSG3V016130 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 09:28:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4VDRSU9067464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 07:27:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VDRRiM037336; Tue, 31 May 2005 07:27:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VDROck037309 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 07:27:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f4a.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.74]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F06C55EE008 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 15:27:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000401c565e4$84278ae0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <053020051620.28418.429B3D560009571D00006F0222007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <429B5F2D.80104@thibault.org><00a901c565d0$f676a220$0301010a@michaela> <429C6522.8000206@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:27:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/900/Tue May 31 04:50:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/900/Tue May 31 04:50:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Just 2 cents on german renaissance costumes. In Denmark this was the hight of fashion two. We have 3 portraits with this style and it is very close to the Cranach paintings. The head gear is very special and very beautifull, and i also love their colour combinations. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Clemenger" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gloves, was Saxony sleeve treatment. > Not necessarily...definitely not, in my case. It's just not something > I've ever had time for. I've spent most of my costuming time in the 16th > century (primarily England and France), and in the Italian states of the > 15th & 16th centuries, but I've got to juggle so many competing interests > (earlier styles of clothing, dabbling in 18th c. stuff, and then there's > the different kinds of needlework, and the lacemaking, and ......). Right > now, I'm spending a lot of time working with fiber in earlier > states--spinning, combing, carding, knitting, weaving. > I've always wanted to explore late 15th/early 16th century German > clothing--I love the hats, and the pleating of the skirts, and all the use > of pearls, and the really yummy whitework and smocking. I just haven't > had the time to explore it in any depth! > --sue, currently also working on some 10th c. western-Norse stuff for > tourney season.... > > michaela wrote: > >> So am I to take it with the number of people not familiar with German >> dress >> of the early 16thC that there are a few new people interested;)? >> >> michaela de bruce >> Weird German Renaissance Dress Fancier, currently working on a 1560s >> Westfalen dress, and possibly going to make a late 1490s Cologne >> dress.... >> http://costumes.glittersweet.com >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 31 17:58:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j4VLw40t023071 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 17:58:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j4VLv6XG027109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 15:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VLus6j063447; Tue, 31 May 2005 15:56:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from captain.concentric.com (captain.concentric.com [207.155.252.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j4VLuV1l063184 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 15:56:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by captain.concentric.com id RAA14016; Tue, 31 May 2005 17:56:30 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200505312156.RAA14016@captain.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 14:56:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200505281800.j4SI0ai4052034@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j4VLuV1l063184 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costume musings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had kind of an "oh wow" moment this weekend. I was looking at costuming books (OK, they were the paper doll books) that had representative costumes by decades starting with the 1920's through the 1990's. Now I lived through many of those decades and I can tell you I didn't see much that looked like clothes I actually wore. So the big question is, how do we know what was really worn in whatever period we're studying? It seems that only very special items were saved or items belonging to royalty (which makes them special). So what were real people doing when they weren't sitting for their portraits? What would be a place to look for what minor nobility or merchants really wore/did? Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 31 20:12:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j510CeDZ024989 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 20:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j510BmgC040831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 18:11:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j510Bitx055329; Tue, 31 May 2005 18:11:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j510Bf6J055299 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 18:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 24224 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2005 00:11:24 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 May 2005 17:11:24 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 31 May 2005 17:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1240.24.4.69.40.1117584700.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <200505312156.RAA14016@captain.concentric.com> References: <200505281800.j4SI0ai4052034@net.indra.com> <200505312156.RAA14016@captain.concentric.com> Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 17:11:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume musings From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I had kind of an "oh wow" moment this weekend. > > I was looking at costuming books (OK, they were the paper doll books) that > had representative costumes by decades starting with the 1920's through > the 1990's. Now I lived through many of those decades and I can tell you > I didn't see much that looked like clothes I actually wore. > > So the big question is, how do we know what was really worn in whatever > period we're studying? It seems that only very special items were saved > or items belonging to royalty (which makes them special). So what were > real people doing when they weren't sitting for their portraits? What > would be a place to look for what minor nobility or merchants really > wore/did? I had a moment like this, too. If you have ever looked at a 70's fashion magazines and seen what the models were wearing, you would go...nobody *I* know wore that! Even today's magazines have that problem. When it comes to historical periods, we see portraits of ultra wealthy people (cuz let's face it, ya had to be wealthy to have someone paint your portrait) but we also have some artists who took interest in the common man/woman like Breugel. There are also artists who painted market scenes which would have common people in them. Also, some paintings have servants in them and this is also a clue as to what a more "common" person would have worn. So examples are there, they just aren't as easy to find and there aren't as many of them. We just do the best we can with what we know! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 31 21:27:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j511RvLA025993 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 21:27:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j511R0Xh048435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 19:27:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j511Qudf096225; Tue, 31 May 2005 19:26:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j511QrQ5096188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 19:26:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.243.169] (acty2169.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.243.169]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j511QncB024372 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 21:26:51 -0400 Message-ID: <429D0ED8.6050608@dandy.net> Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 21:26:48 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20050506145735.52161.qmail@web50209.mail.yahoo.com> <429907A5.9020909@dandy.net> In-Reply-To: <429907A5.9020909@dandy.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] my bad X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO D'oh! Sorry, folks! Just Mike being dumb...as usual. Mike T. michael tartaglio wrote: > Hi, Melissa. I must apologise that I didn't send you a note right > away, but I have been working crazy hours this week and hadn't gotten > a chance to get online. I got your DVDs a few days back, and > everything ius fine. I always wanted to see "The Advocate", so I > watched it right off. Thank You again for the films. Yours, Mike > Tartaglio > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue May 31 22:08:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5128tl6026639 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 22:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51272S8051643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 20:07:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51271kp017417; Tue, 31 May 2005 20:07:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5126vJZ017325 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 20:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7743C840 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 21:06:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <429D186E.7020803@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 21:07:42 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] anything costume in Philadelphia? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Specifically near the Independence National Historic park (Liberty Bell) . I'll be downtown on business later this week and will have about two hours to look around. I don't want to miss anything costume-y if there's something to see. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 01:26:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j515QBVh029375 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 01:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j515PNgJ066587 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 31 May 2005 23:25:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j515PJ3G014199; Tue, 31 May 2005 23:25:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j515PGsV014136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 23:25:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j516j4Lx003198 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 02:45:05 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] anything costume in Philadelphia? Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 01:25:08 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <429D186E.7020803@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <429D186E.7020803@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506010125.08817.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 31 May 2005 10:07 pm, Dawn wrote: > Specifically near the Independence National Historic park (Liberty Bell) > . I'll be downtown on business later this week and will have about two > hours to look around. I don't want to miss anything costume-y if there's > something to see. There is a major section of fabric stores not too far from Independence Nat'l Park (just head south, away from the park to 4th Street (the are in question begins around 4th and Bainbridge). -- Cathy Raymond "Some never live, but the crazy never die."--Hunter S. Thompson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 07:00:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51B0de5002007 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:00:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51AxiCm001635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:59:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Axe6C059799; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:59:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Axbri059751 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:59:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.f6.51b0fd93 (4254) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:59:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:59:27 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] anything costume in Philadelphia? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 1200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/1/2005 1:26:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: I don't want to miss anything costume-y if there's > something to see. And there is the Mummers Museum--100 S. 2nd St., full of the great Mummers' costumes. (Just visited there last week as part of the Costume Society of America symposium, as well as visiting Fabric Row on 4th St.) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 07:24:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51BO9m3002279 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:24:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51BNFiB005826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:23:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51BNEHx073102; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:23:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j4VNR4qk028390 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 17:27:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail25.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.165]) by smtpout05.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK36X7AQH4RUS for (sender ); Tue, 31 May 2005 16:26:53 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn74sPyzJjieU9m56ebFsqYD+QZgx7hl7G/w== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail25.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUC795S7; Tue, 31 May 2005 16:25:59 PDT Received: from [24.14.7.158] by webmail25.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:25:05 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.7.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:25:05 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume musings X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050531.162559.14191.224419@webmail25.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:2:3839797826 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.165|webmail25.nyc.untd.com|outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah yes, the Great 'What Did Average People Wear?' question. The answer is that in many cases we just don't know. The clothing of the 'average' person was less likely to be preserved and more likely to be worn to rags and then the rags used as something else than, say, a king's coronation robe or the shirt of a saint. Most of the average clothing which survives does so by accident- a number of Viking era items of slothing wrere preserved becaise at the end of their lives they were used to caulk the hold of a ship which later sank and was recovered. The finds from the Museum of London book on clohting were bits and pieces found in what amounted to an informal trash dump on the edge of the Thames River. The Greenland finds were grave clothes and may or may not have been complete costumes or what was worn on an average day. The genre paintings of the 16th/17th century (mostly Flemish/Lowlands) give us some idea of what was worn, but we don't know how much 'idealization' was used! to make them more 'artistic'. As parts of maps of the era, average sorts of citizens were included as decorative elements- but again, we don't know if they are accurate or idealized. I suppose the short answer to your question is that we don't really know. After study and experimentation we just take our best guess and hope it is close. Karen Seamstrix Studyin', experimentin', and guessin' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 07:26:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51BQeG9002315 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:26:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51BPwZJ006419 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51BPwm0074990; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j514nTaP098200 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 22:49:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA67E3C28E for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 23:49:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B4E4AC495 for ; Tue, 31 May 2005 23:49:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historic Costume" Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:49:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I'm in love, now were is that winning lottery ticket? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code =15692&Category_Code=T-d&Product_Count=6 http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code =16901&Category_Code=UPCHES&Product_Count=7 De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume