From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 07:35:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51BZt2h002479 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:35:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51BZBvt013712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:35:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51BZAR8086522; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51B8KN8064847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 05:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DdR56-0002sg-83; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:08:16 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:08:16 -0500 Message-ID: <20050601060816.nbcxlj07va3soccw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:08:16 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: historic costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] traveling to Austin TX X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there anything costume=y there (or needlework or .....) I'll be in town in August (big Botany meeting) Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 08:41:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51CfkOj004244 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:41:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Ce4T9019394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:40:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Ce08Y018145; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:40:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Cdvd9018118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:39:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j51CVqmT008891 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:31:52 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429DAC9B.70800@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:39:55 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excerpt about men's hairdressing. Sarah is one of the servants. ...and so home, and had Sarah to comb my head clean, which I found so foul with powdering and other troubles, that I am resolved to try how I can keep my head dry without powder; and I did also in a suddaine fit cut off all my beard, which I had been a great while bringing up, only that I may with my pumice-stone do my whole face, as I now do my chin, and to save time, which I find a very easy way and gentile. So she also washed my feet in a bath of herbs, and so to bed. All the rest of it is at http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/05/31/index.php -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 09:05:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51D53Lf004564 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:05:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51D4GGw021056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51D4FAx030981; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:04:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51D4Bnq030824 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:04:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j51D3wd08743.; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:03:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:03:58 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:03:29 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j51D4Bnq030824 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO NB "Beard" in this context probably means "moustache", as full beards were not normally worn at this time. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> cvirtue+dated+1133181112.e48a2f@thibault.org 01/06/2005 13:39 >>> Excerpt about men's hairdressing. Sarah is one of the servants. ...and so home, and had Sarah to comb my head clean, which I found so foul with powdering and other troubles, that I am resolved to try how I can keep my head dry without powder; and I did also in a suddaine fit cut off all my beard, which I had been a great while bringing up, only that I may with my pumice-stone do my whole face, as I now do my chin, and to save time, which I find a very easy way and gentile. So she also washed my feet in a bath of herbs, and so to bed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 09:43:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51DhWdk005110 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51DgN5j024319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:42:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51DgKd5052925; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:42:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.52]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51DgI6N052884 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:42:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 17712 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 13:42:15 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=QsYqbrX7Z3QpbnQHTc23x/0Q1qxDBqmYsPOdJnaqdaOWrB2ZhAInjHx+dkOMEWucFZK2x6csMPK0g7LsAOWY6h7Suiy76FuSoDC+H4y0qhCvUC7VqYQluAE80HXQeTZp2OIg6nl8SCZ4Qf3+8POUVlh2WnPLL02fGO2e8y+dU00= ; Message-ID: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.19.8] by web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:42:15 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:42:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Galadriel of Lothlorien To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Satin question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somebody mentioned satin at Ren Faires, something that has always really bugged me for the supposed era people are trying to dress in. My question is this: when exactly was the earliest known appearance of satin, and when did it become more common? Clearly the 1700s is riddled with good examples but what about before that? This occurred to me the other day and I really haven't delved too deeply into this yet. I thought somebody here might be an expert! I'll be taking a textiles class in the fall but I'm too impatient to wait that long. ;) __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 09:46:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51DklTg005165 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:46:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Did8a024462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51DidI6054164; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:44:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51DiaIU054128 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:44:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be61.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.97]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B284B262835 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:44:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004301c566b0$17b544c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200505312156.RAA14016@captain.concentric.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume musings Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:44:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Julie, There also are some curators at museums who claimes that those costumes wich has survived never has ben used for some reason. I dont agree on this, but the only proof we have to rely on are the paintings. And for my period 1700 there also are fashion prints. You could imagine that a maid of a woman of fashion would be green of envy of her lady's outfits, and she would struggle and do as best as she could to look like her lady. Some comedians, in Denmark we have a comedy play wrighter who complainted that it sometimes was difficult to point out wich was the servants and wich were the masters, this was not ment ironicly, but a true complaint. So it tells a little about how well dressed servants would be. Street scenes either printed or painted also has a lot of sources to go for when it comes to common people. But then again my period is far from yours and it is much easyer because there are so many other sources for my period. The difference between fashion prints and real clothes in 1700 is not far from eachother, so fashion prints of the 18th century is quite reliable. Bjarne Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] costume musings >I had kind of an "oh wow" moment this weekend. > > I was looking at costuming books (OK, they were the paper doll books) that > had representative costumes by decades starting with the 1920's through > the 1990's. Now I lived through many of those decades and I can tell you > I didn't see much that looked like clothes I actually wore. > > So the big question is, how do we know what was really worn in whatever > period we're studying? It seems that only very special items were saved > or items belonging to royalty (which makes them special). So what were > real people doing when they weren't sitting for their portraits? What > would be a place to look for what minor nobility or merchants really > wore/did? > > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 09:52:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51DqBmw005244 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:52:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51DpOb8025082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:51:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51DpNuj057994; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:51:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51DpJwK057916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:51:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j51DhEmT009354 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:43:14 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:43:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429DBD55.2090809@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:51:17 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > NB "Beard" in this context probably means "moustache", as full beards were not normally worn at this time. That explains why he was already using the stone on his chin! That one puzzled me. Can I post this to the glossary for the diary online? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 09:54:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51DsTlA005281 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:54:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51DrnPQ025256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:53:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51DrmrL059228; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:53:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51DrjfH059198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:53:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j51DjemT009374 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:45:40 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429DBDE7.4080109@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 09:53:43 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question References: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Galadriel of Lothlorien wrote: > when exactly was the earliest known appearance of > satin, and when did it become more common? Do you mean shiny satin as if made of silk? Because the weave probably was used earlier. (I have what I believe is some wool satin that my mom found in England a few years back. It's glorious.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 10:01:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51E1j5K005401 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:01:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51E0qgf026130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:00:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51E0osO063727; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:00:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51E0l7g063623 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:00:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK5R4YAHKAXKA for (sender ); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7+g2XisDVffMZdJyN0uToSAxaaMM89cHcA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUER8YFM; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 06:59:10 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:56:08 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question Message-ID: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-19,21-48 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 17:8:655256693 X-MAIL-INFO: 023189b589e1243de19124b5b0dd1dc015614d7540ed2df599312d40ed353400958dc43db530a1543d1d09f995e16579a524244480ad60ad29c0e529c0e9d9c0e9a144a5f48415c455f4859461c4e4852519b98510059d8045809074e9a0c080d9 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are numerous examples of satin being referred to in the catalog portion of Queen E's Un'L. As I recall there are also various portraits that appear to show people wearing satin. The problem with people wearing satin at RenFaires is that they generally choose the super-shiney acetate version that is very light and insubstantial (cheap prom dress type stuff). To get the Elizabethan effect with satin you need to choose something quite heavy, like the stuff they sell for lining coats, and with a somewhat matte appearance. I know that sounds odd- matte satin, but there is a spectrum of shininess and to look right in period you should avoid the super shiny stuff and go for stuff with more of a 'glow'. and of course you need to get the skirt looking full enough so you have nice luxurious folds of softly shining satin....mmmmmmm.......I think I feel a satin Elizabethan coming on....... Karen Seamstrix On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:42:15 -0700 (PDT) Galadriel of Lothlorien writes: > Somebody mentioned satin at Ren Faires, something that > has always really bugged me for the supposed era > people are trying to dress in. My question is this: > when exactly was the earliest known appearance of > satin, and when did it become more common? Clearly > the 1700s is riddled with good examples but what about > before that? > > This occurred to me the other day and I really haven't > delved too deeply into this yet. I thought somebody > here might be an expert! I'll be taking a textiles > class in the fall but I'm too impatient to wait that > long. ;) > > > > > __________________________________ > Discover Yahoo! > Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! > > http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 10:02:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51E2E4J005408 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:02:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51E1V2R026166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:01:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51E1V5h064138; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:01:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51E1PGq064018 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:01:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j51E1Jd13415.; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:01:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:01:19 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:00:48 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j51E1PGq064018 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO By all means, but I think it's already mentioned in the notes. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> cvirtue+dated+1133185394.46599e@thibault.org 01/06/2005 14:51 >>> Kate M Bunting wrote: > NB "Beard" in this context probably means "moustache", as full beards were not normally worn at this time. That explains why he was already using the stone on his chin! That one puzzled me. Can I post this to the glossary for the diary online? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 10:06:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51E64X2005474 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:06:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51E5PbV026497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:05:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51E5ORw066551; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:05:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51E5Lr4066489 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:05:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-20955); Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:05:17 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:05:12 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050601065755.00db4ec0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 07:05:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question In-Reply-To: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:42 AM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Somebody mentioned satin at Ren Faires, something that >has always really bugged me for the supposed era >people are trying to dress in. My question is this: >when exactly was the earliest known appearance of >satin, and when did it become more common? Clearly >the 1700s is riddled with good examples but what about >before that? > >This occurred to me the other day and I really haven't >delved too deeply into this yet. I thought somebody >here might be an expert! I'll be taking a textiles >class in the fall but I'm too impatient to wait that >long. ;) "Satin" is a weave that can be done in any fiber, but is especially good for showing off the shine of fibers like silk and fine worsted-spun wool. The weave goes back to early Chinese times in silk. So silk satins are perfectly appropriate for Renaissance Faires, which are generally set in 16th century England. And we have inventories and other records, especially wills, listing satin. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 10:14:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51EECwW005582 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51EDYpi027173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:13:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51EDX5J071769; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:13:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51EDU77071747 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m47.in-tch.com [216.166.191.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j51E8ZV22180 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <429DC3E0.4030908@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:19:12 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm in love, now were is that winning lottery ticket? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whew! I escaped that one, handily! Lovely fabric but *wrong* color for me! --sue otsisto wrote: > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code > =15692&Category_Code=T-d&Product_Count=6 > > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code > =16901&Category_Code=UPCHES&Product_Count=7 > > De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 12:51:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51GpU6A007778 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:51:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51GoW7R048117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:50:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51GoUEJ002269; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:50:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail13.mdx.safepages.com (mail13.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51GoQsn002210 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:50:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 31521138882; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:50:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.6.179.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.6.179]) by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E01AD13861E for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:50:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <021901c566ca$331f1870$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601060816.nbcxlj07va3soccw@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] traveling to Austin TX Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:51:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan B. Farmer" > Is there anything costume=y there (or needlework or .....) > I'll be in town in August (big Botany meeting) UT Austin has a nice textiles collection: http://www.utexas.edu/depts/he/txa/txahistoriccollect.htm but it's only of interest for 19th & 20th century stuff. The museums, unfortunately, seem to be all about the modern art, except for the Blanton Museum at UT Austin, which is closed to the public until Feb 2006! Sad, because they do have a really good collection. Since it seems to be open to students, though, you might be able to talk someone into being nice! http://www.blantonmuseum.org/ -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 13:04:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51H4Zhg007972 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51H3lVA049719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:03:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51H3B7w012603; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:03:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30107.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30107.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.80]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51H2hl1012214 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:03:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 33344 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 17:02:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QhrjXiVsMuXOSByMazjc0xT+VP3vcqn7cAgz8XkF/mNCStf/JATjozN9M2TMEOf/LtYuukSns98hrRkJe0yYXMiQR7pjSTnkkata9oOHzUdqzA36ZbauRMKc4UPjKGX0qIyYK4o52MjR7efd11/fAY3C7HGnOJdAYnw4KVvsj60= ; Message-ID: <20050601170238.33342.qmail@web30107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30107.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:02:38 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:02:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: what people really wore X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Message: 13 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:44:54 +0200 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: Re: [h-cost] costume musings To: "Historical Costume" Message-ID: <004301c566b0$17b544c0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Hi Julie, There also are some curators at museums who claimes that those costumes wich has survived never has ben used for some reason. I dont agree on this, but the only proof we have to rely on are the paintings. And for my period 1700 there also are fashion prints. You could imagine that a maid of a woman of fashion would be green of envy of her lady's outfits, and she would struggle and do as best as she could to look like her lady. Some comedians, in Denmark we have a comedy play wrighter who complainted that it sometimes was difficult to point out wich was the servants and wich were the masters, this was not ment ironicly, but a true complaint. So it tells a little about how well dressed servants would be. Street scenes either printed or painted also has a lot of sources to go for when it comes to common people. But then again my period is far from yours and it is much easyer because there are so many other sources for my period. The difference between fashion prints and real clothes in 1700 is not far from eachother, so fashion prints of the 18th century is quite reliable. Bjarne Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:56 PM Subject: [h-cost] costume musings >I had kind of an "oh wow" moment this weekend. > > I was looking at costuming books (OK, they were the paper doll books) that > had representative costumes by decades starting with the 1920's through > the 1990's. Now I lived through many of those decades and I can tell you > I didn't see much that looked like clothes I actually wore. > > So the big question is, how do we know what was really worn in whatever > period we're studying? It seems that only very special items were saved > or items belonging to royalty (which makes them special). So what were > real people doing when they weren't sitting for their portraits? What > would be a place to look for what minor nobility or merchants really > wore/did? > > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Hey Bjarne, good to have you back. The people on the street would probably have been greener than the ladies maid. The Maid would have probably gotten some of the out of style, or unwanted dresses, especially of the very highest ladies of fashion. Although I have not seen documents, the 18c womans list has discussed hand-me downs and the second hand trade. To me, Any ladies maid worth her pay would have been able to re-work some of these second hand garments into something very fashionable. Dappert in Charlotte, NC - the 18c centuries 2nd worst servant. Wishing she knew more about the life of a ladies maid, since she frequently portrays one at reenactment in The Am Rev War South --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 13:09:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51H9goh008030 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:09:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51H8vL0050538 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51H8tD8017658; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:08:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from itasca.net (exim@zogfrog.itasca.net [207.195.213.57]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51H8nuA017555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:08:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from www-data@itasca.net) Received: from www-data by itasca.net with local (Exim 4.24) id 1DdWhv-0001Q3-9F for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:08:43 -0500 Received: from riviera.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (riviera.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov [130.14.21.247]) by webmail.itasca.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:08:42 -0500 Message-ID: <1117645722.429deb9ae3f07@webmail.itasca.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:08:42 -0500 From: ynes@sskip.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] traveling to Austin TX References: <20050601060816.nbcxlj07va3soccw@www.goldsword.com> <021901c566ca$331f1870$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <021901c566ca$331f1870$0400a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 4.0-cvs X-Originating-IP: 130.14.21.247 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting E House : > The museums, unfortunately, seem to be all about the modern art, except for > the Blanton Museum at UT Austin, which is closed to the public until Feb > 2006! Sad, because they do have a really good collection. Since it seems > to be open to students, though, you might be able to talk someone into being > nice! > http://www.blantonmuseum.org/ The Harry Ransom Center http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/, also at UT Austin, isn't really about modern art, but rather about modern (after the printing press) media. Their collection includes one of the Scarlett O'hara dresses from Gone with the Wind, but from what's on their site, I don't think that piece is on exhibit right now. There may be nifty costume pictures in some of the print collections that are on exhibit. Wouldn't hurt to email them and ask them if they have anything of interest to a costume historian that you could see while you're in town. - Ynes/Lisa ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 14:40:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51IerdX008980 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:40:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51IdwZE061931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:39:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51IdC6F090361; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:39:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from atlas.concentric.com (atlas.concentric.com [207.155.252.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51IcT97089833 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:38:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by atlas.concentric.com id OAA06261; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:38:26 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 11:38:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j51IcT97089833 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This reminds me... What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? The only costumes which survive are those that are from small people. They couldn't be handed down because they were already too small. (what about children?) People were smaller then. Just look at all the small uniforms that have been recovered, small armor, etc. (what about some of the 6 foot plus skeletons, etc...Abe Lincoln) So were they mostly smaller? Sure seems to be so in current times. Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it diet? Is it genes? Julie ---- wrote: > There also are some curators at museums who claimes that those costumes wich > has survived never has ben used for some reason. > I dont agree on this, but the only proof we have to rely on are the > paintings. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 15:04:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51J4FGr009603 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51J3Sd2067496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:03:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51J3RbL011950; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:03:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51J3N7s011877 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:03:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51J3K28006363 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:03:20 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51J3GdJ149912 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:03:20 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601114810.03654a50@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 11:51:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it >diet? Is it genes? It is a statistical fact that the first US-born generation of children of Oriental immigrants to this country are larger than their parents. It's probably diet, like from all that meat Americans typically eat. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 15:06:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51J6SPv009634 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:06:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51J5cxx068110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:05:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51J5b8Y014095; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:05:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51J5VJG014036 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C153C3CF for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:05:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0EE78DBB3 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:05:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Satin question Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:05:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Satin is a weave. The "satin" used today at Ren fests. are not pre 1600s unless it is made of wool or silk. (I have heard rumors to the effect of linen satin but....) Best thing to do is feel sorry for those in the Acetate/Nylon/polysomething satin dress as they will be miserable on those looonnnggg hot days. De -----Original Message----- Somebody mentioned satin at Ren Faires, something that has always really bugged me for the supposed era people are trying to dress in. My question is this: when exactly was the earliest known appearance of satin, and when did it become more common? Clearly the 1700s is riddled with good examples but what about before that? This occurred to me the other day and I really haven't delved too deeply into this yet. I thought somebody here might be an expert! I'll be taking a textiles class in the fall but I'm too impatient to wait that long. ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 15:13:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51JD1g5009726 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51JCAOJ070038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:12:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JC80o020328; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51JC4OF020112 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:12:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pennyrobertsho@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 70637 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 19:11:57 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=bOKhNIcgb7TlnA4t2OFY7nsAeUlJeld7GmB5YNhRZNTkp2cn6ZBFo7KUq3CVqGa0CB6lE9+sYTfKI+TqOGRDrSjtOTqi/+1C3i434hRZ7KDpGpIIIs62+tPnGSpuGZzZhqO2hTnlyiLbHujqnUY+GagmuqyzawwXMy60zpVHYs8= ; Message-ID: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [198.64.35.191] by web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:11:57 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:11:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Penny Roberts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: 6667 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it >diet? Is it genes? It is a statistical fact that the first US-born generation of children of Oriental immigrants to this country are larger than their parents. It's probably diet, like from all that meat Americans typically eat. Increased fat and protein, same thing happened when McDonalds hit Japan.... --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 15:24:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51JOjjP009928 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:24:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51JNuZd071441 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:23:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JNsfd029666; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:23:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JNn8C029612 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.52]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DdYof-0003AX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:23:49 -0400 Message-ID: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:23:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Costuming myths? Let's see.... "Women's shirts button the opposite way from men's because women were being dressed by maids." (In previous discussions on this list, we've established that the correlation between buttoning direction and maid service appears nonexistent; instead, it seems to have been a decision, and not always a consistent one, by early ready-to-wear garment manufacturers IIRC.) "White wedding dresses are an ancient tradition." (Only if you define "ancient" as "Victorian"...) "Pink is a color that was impossible to produce in the Middle Ages." (That one's simply false...) "Only kings and queens could wear purple." (Demonstrably not true, but because it's a convention at many Renaissance Faires, a lot of people believe it.) "There were no buttons or buttonholes in the Middle Ages." (Demonstrably not true.) "Peasants not only sewed, but spun and wove all their own clothing." (Demonstrably not true for most times and places; cloth and second-hand clothing seem to have been available and more or less affordable over much of Europe.) "Blackwork embroidery was always reversible." "Built-in pockets in clothing are a modern invention." Then there are the more pervasive myths that are seldom articulated, such as the assumption that in all times and places clothing is decorated with embroidery..... or that fitted bodices frequently expose the entire bosom.... or that folk clothing is exactly like medieval clothing.... And that's not even getting INTO the debateable ones! BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 15:39:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51JdmuR010199 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:39:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Jd8Oe073266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:39:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Jd6wq042158; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:39:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51Jd3KE042116 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-22446); Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:22:44 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:22:44 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050601122059.00dbd200@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:22:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:38 AM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote: >This reminds me... >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? > >The only costumes which survive are those that are from small >people. They couldn't be handed down because they were already too small. >(what about children?) > >People were smaller then. Just look at all the small uniforms that have >been recovered, small armor, etc. (what about some of the 6 foot plus >skeletons, etc...Abe Lincoln) So were they mostly smaller? Sure seems to >be so in current times. Children are often taller than their parents and >grandparents. Is it diet? Is it genes? > >Julie "They" didn't have metal buttons (overheard from visitors to Ren. Faire). Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 15:46:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51Jk1Lh010294 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Jits9074143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JirwI047305; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:44:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Jimb8047105 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:44:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4D03C843 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:44:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:45:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "The little bow on your bra is a holdover from corset lacing. " I went looking for this one, and found out that comment comes out of Winter & Savoy's "Elizabethan Costuming". A little more looking and I found that brassieres and corsets evolved concurrently through the end of the 19th century. The corset slid down and turned into more of what we now think of as a control-top garter. I've seen vintage ads for "bra and corset" sets. The bra was always a separate garment, supported by straps, where the corset, when it supported the bust, relied on boning that pushed up from the torso. Anyway. If your bra has a bow on it, it's because the Edwardians put bows on everything, and the lingerie industry has continued the tradition of frilly female underthings. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 16:30:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51KU1iH011002 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51KT7FC078404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:29:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51KT4up081853; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:29:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail13.mdx.safepages.com (mail13.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.243]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51KT1Pa081815 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:29:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 06DFD138A53; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:29:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.39.247.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.39.247]) by mail13.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 13C01138A57 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:29:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <006b01c566e8$bbd06610$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:30:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" > Anyway. If your bra has a bow on it, it's because the Edwardians put bows > on everything, and the lingerie industry has continued the tradition of > frilly female underthings. Yup. If it's a holdover from anything corset related, it's a holdover from the corset _cover_, which often had a ribbon at the neckline. -E the endlessly fascinated by Edwardian underthings. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:16:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51LG6i1011638 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:16:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LF9ov083869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LF5SU019641; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from atlas.concentric.com (atlas.concentric.com [207.155.252.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LExOY019559 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:15:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by atlas.concentric.com id RAA16689; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:14:58 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:14:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j51LExOY019559 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This has been fun. I'd love to hear more. ---- wrote: > > >Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it > >diet? Is it genes? > > It is a statistical fact that the first US-born generation of children of > Oriental immigrants to this country are larger than their parents. It's > probably diet, like from all that meat Americans typically eat. **Funny you should mention Orientals...hubby's heritage is Japanese. His grandfather was about 5' 2" or 3", his father was about 5' 8", hubby is 5' 11" and our son is 6' 2". > Increased fat and protein, same thing happened when McDonalds hit Japan.... **Wow. I hadn't heard that. So the Japanese, still in Japan are taller? > I have a book on the early days of New Orleans where, in 1735 a > commander of the French fort complains about the troops that have been > sent to him are practically dwarves: "There are but one or two men among > them whose size is above five feet, and as to the rest, they are under > four feet ten inches." **That's tiny for adult males. Where were they born? France? > > As for Abe Lincoln, he grew up in the new world, where food was much > more plentiful, and his family was reasonably well-off. **I thought he "wasn't" reasonably well-off...the log cabin thing and all that? Is that another myth? > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that > aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove > wearing crowd? **Amen to that. I'm plus size by today's standards - both height and weight. We joke about going back in time but I think folks back then wouldn't have known what to make of the lady giant in their midst . > > > I also heard (about 5 years ago) of a study that showed that there was a > higher percentage of weddings in taller males than in shorter ones. From > what I recall, they didn't push the study far enough to state that this had an influence on gene transmittal. **Interesting. I vaguely recall something like that too. > Costuming myths? Let's see.... > > "Women's shirts button the opposite way from men's because women were being dressed by maids." (In previous discussions on this list, we've established that the correlation between buttoning direction and maid service appears nonexistent; instead, it seems to have been a decision, and not always a consistent one, by early ready-to-wear garment manufacturers IIRC.) **Ulp - I thought it was something about keeping the sword arm free. Another myth? > > "White wedding dresses are an ancient tradition." (Only if you define "ancient" as "Victorian"...) > > "Pink is a color that was impossible to produce in the Middle Ages." (That one's simply false...) **I can get screaming fushia with cochenile. Not sure how red kermes would be. Madder also gave/gives red. > "Only kings and queens could wear purple." (Demonstrably not true, but because it's a convention at many Renaissance Faires, a lot of people believe it.) > **I did for a while. That one ticks me off. Purple is my favorite color so I use it a lot. Have to be careful when I'm doing a faire. > "There were no buttons or buttonholes in the Middle Ages." (Demonstrably not true.) **Hadn't heard that one - so easily disproved. > "Peasants not only sewed, but spun and wove all their own clothing." (Demonstrably not true for most times and places; cloth and second-hand clothing seem to have been available and more or less affordable over much of Europe.) **Interesting. Are we thinking colonial and frontier U.S. instead of Europe? I'm hearing this one regularly, and sometimes from arts judges. I'd love to hear more about inexpensive cloth in period where the ladies of the house would buy their fabric to make their clothes. > "Blackwork embroidery was always reversible." **Not from anyone who's tried to do it ;-) > "Built-in pockets in clothing are a modern invention." **Oops - ignorance alert here. I've been going along with that one. Colonial U.S. had separate "pockets" like a belt pouch. Please, pretty please show me documentation of pockets in period. I'd love to show to our judges when I make something with pockets. I've would have claimed it as a creative touch or modern substitution. >or that folk clothing is exactly like medieval clothing.... **no, but I've been amazed looking at modern church vestments how much they look like the ancient ones. The new pope brought that one to mind. > And that's not even getting INTO the debateable ones! **Please do. This has been fun and informative. > BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! **Hey, this one at least makes sense. A small warm body in a pocket would be warmer than just a pocket. Course, the warm poo in the pocket would be a down side ;-) (Don't ask about my pet rats...) Any truth to small dogs traveling with their mistresses under their hoops? > ____________________________________________________________ > 0 Chris Laning ** Julie Tamura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:36:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51La48e011928 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:36:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LZEC8086567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LZDcG036197; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LZA3M036151 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:35:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZBOJ0VVK95O6KY@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:35:04 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZBOJ293C94GTGU@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:35:03 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:36:20 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question In-reply-to: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E2A54.6090808@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Galadriel of Lothlorien wrote: >Somebody mentioned satin at Ren Faires, something that >has always really bugged me for the supposed era >people are trying to dress in. My question is this: >when exactly was the earliest known appearance of >satin, and when did it become more common? Clearly >the 1700s is riddled with good examples but what about >before that? > >This occurred to me the other day and I really haven't >delved too deeply into this yet. I thought somebody >here might be an expert! I'll be taking a textiles >class in the fall but I'm too impatient to wait that >long. ;) > > > Definitely in use in the 16th century. I think there are some examples in Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:46:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51LkeZ1012065 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:46:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Ljl0q087642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:45:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LjjOL045261; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:45:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Ljfvk045201 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:45:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZC2LLV9C94GKRU@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:45:37 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZC2L1ZG094GWM3@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:45:36 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:46:53 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E2CCD.1080106@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: >BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! > > I haven't heard that one before, but the mental images it produces are _hilarious_. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:56:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51Lu65N012204 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:56:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LswAp088567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Lsu0A052762; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51ELHj0077231 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:21:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m47.in-tch.com [216.166.191.47]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j51EGMV24642 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:16:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <429DC5B3.30804@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:26:59 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question References: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are examples of satin weaves used in 16th century clothing....I've even seen an extant bit of cut-and-voided velvet (16th c.) that had a background of satin weave, which really made the velvet pile stand out in contrast. --sue Galadriel of Lothlorien wrote: > Somebody mentioned satin at Ren Faires, something that > has always really bugged me for the supposed era > people are trying to dress in. My question is this: > when exactly was the earliest known appearance of > satin, and when did it become more common? Clearly > the 1700s is riddled with good examples but what about > before that? > > This occurred to me the other day and I really haven't > delved too deeply into this yet. I thought somebody > here might be an expert! I'll be taking a textiles > class in the fall but I'm too impatient to wait that > long. ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:56:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51LuooA012221 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:56:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LtUSe088635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LtUoE053213; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:55:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51EZaEa087424 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:35:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.c4.2877bafb (26116) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:35:14 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:35:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:52:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1133185394.46599e@thibault.org writes: NB "Beard" in this context probably means "moustache", as full beards were not normally worn at this time. No, I think "beard" means all facial hair. Pepys was a proponent of self-shaving. After trying the stone, he later switched to a razor. A later entry, "without being shaved I am not fully awake nor ready to settle to business." While full face beards as we know them were not in fashion, yet it does not appear that every man shaved every single day. I can't find the exact reference right now, but when researching shaving a couple of years ago, I came across a quote that Oxford students were expected to be clean-shaven, but would only be fined if they didn't shave at least every 2 weeks! Pepys himself evidently waited a week once, writing, "Lord! How ugly I was yesterday and how fine today." Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:56:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51Lut8s012224 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:56:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Lu2ot088690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Lu0ba053604; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51FHUeQ021389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:17:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51FHKhP018173 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:17:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:17:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <39232.165.236.184.195.1117639040.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <20050601060816.nbcxlj07va3soccw@www.goldsword.com> References: <20050601060816.nbcxlj07va3soccw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:17:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] traveling to Austin TX From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ya know, when I went to Paris France I expected it to be full of museums of art and such. NOT. They are all private and closed to the public. Austin out numbers Paris 5 fold when it comes of museums of art. I would do a search for them on google for the exact addresses. The one I love most is off MOPAC and 32nd street (I think that is the right street, it is the one that runs by the military base). They have white peacocks that stroll the yard.... The Harry Ransom Center at UT is incredible. The UGL on the same campus holds the costumes from Gone With the Wind and if you can ... get into the basement of the Textiles building. That is the mecca of costumes from all eras that get donated to the University for one reason or another. Many are not in great condition so they get used by the grad students for study on pattern and technique. That is all I can think of off the top of my head and that info is about 13 years old. I no longer live there but in Dallas. Chiara On Wed, June 1, 2005 6:08 am, Susan B. Farmer said: > Is there anything costume=y there (or needlework or .....) > > I'll be in town in August (big Botany meeting) > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:57:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51Lv9Hp012231 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:57:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LuQNC088729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LuPmo053910; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51FLvld024937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:21:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51FLtPo018318 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:21:55 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:21:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <40063.165.236.184.195.1117639315.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 10:21:55 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm in love, now were is that winning lottery ticket? From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ooooooooo .... that almost looks like pink ... hmmmmmm mine? ;) On Tue, May 31, 2005 11:49 pm, otsisto said: > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code > =15692&Category_Code=T-d&Product_Count=6 > > http://www.denverfabrics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code > =16901&Category_Code=UPCHES&Product_Count=7 > > De > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:57:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51LvVWF012234 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Lussr088831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Lur6H054344; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51H3Ivw012636 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 11:03:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.19e.3491a129 (4312) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:03:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <19e.3491a129.2fcf444c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:03:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5037 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/1/2005 8:01:56 AM Mountain Daylight Time, penhalion@juno.com writes: satin at RenFaires is that they generally choose the super-shiney acetate version that is very light and insubstantial (cheap prom dress type stuff). To get the Elizabethan effect with satin you need to choose something quite heavy, like the stuff they sell for lining coats, and with a somewhat matte appearance Plus, the less shine, the better quality the satin because the float is shorter. Ever notice how fast the shiny stuff unravels? Less threads intersecting. Peau de soie would be an example of the good stuff. Luster rather than shine, or what is called "bridal satin", though it tends to be synthetic. For the cheap stuff, think Halloween. Cheryl _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:59:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51LxE2C012254 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:59:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LwT9h089103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:58:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LwRwJ055698; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:58:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JKjel027167 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:20:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id AA8D33D00AC; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:20:45 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.60]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:20:43 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:20:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c566df$044b6fc0$3c542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jun 2005 19:20:44.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[01EB86C0:01C566DF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's mostly diet. I don't have the stats at hand, but diet plays a huge role in how tall a person will get. Genes dictate the range of height that a person might grow to. Diet dictates where on that range you will end up. Even a person with very tall parents, if he suffers persistent malnutrition in childhood, will be noticeably stunted. I have a book on the early days of New Orleans where, in 1735 a commander of the French fort complains about the troops that have been sent to him are practically dwarves: "There are but one or two men among them whose size is above five feet, and as to the rest, they are under four feet ten inches." He goes on to complain at length about the larcenous nature of the new troops. These guys were probably born in poverty and went hungry a lot as kids. As for Abe Lincoln, he grew up in the new world, where food was much more plentiful, and his family was reasonably well-off. That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove wearing crowd? -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Julie Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 2:38 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) This reminds me... What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? The only costumes which survive are those that are from small people. They couldn't be handed down because they were already too small. (what about children?) People were smaller then. Just look at all the small uniforms that have been recovered, small armor, etc. (what about some of the 6 foot plus skeletons, etc...Abe Lincoln) So were they mostly smaller? Sure seems to be so in current times. Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it diet? Is it genes? Julie ---- wrote: > There also are some curators at museums who claimes that those costumes wich > has survived never has ben used for some reason. > I dont agree on this, but the only proof we have to rely on are the > paintings. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 17:59:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51LxW3H012265 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:59:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LwrhT089153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:58:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LwqAi056007; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:58:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc3-s35.bay6.hotmail.com (omc3-s35.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.249.109]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JMvrJ028808 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.96]) by omc3-s35.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:22:52 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:22:51 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV24.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:22:51 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:22:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jun 2005 19:22:51.0910 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DCF5260:01C566DF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It is a statistical fact that the first US-born generation of children of > Oriental immigrants to this country are larger than their parents. It's > probably diet, like from all that meat Americans typically eat. > > Increased fat and protein, same thing happened when McDonalds hit > Japan.... I also heard (about 5 years ago) of a study that showed that there was a higher percentage of weddings in taller males than in shorter ones. From what I recall, they didn't push the study far enough to state that this had an influence on gene transmittal. I don't know if the study was any good or if the results were verified. But it's enough to say that it *might* also have something to do with genetics. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:00:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M00Nu012277 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:00:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LxITr089207 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:59:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LxGtI056342; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:59:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JSGrS032973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:28:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j51JK6mT013433 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:20:06 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:20:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:28:08 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Roberts wrote: > It is a statistical fact that the first US-born generation of children of > Oriental immigrants to this country are larger than their parents. It's > probably diet, like from all that meat Americans typically eat. No argument to this data point, it's just that it can't be extrapolated backwards more than a few decades. Measurements of bones or other records don't show much difference between a medieval European and a modern one. I know there's a bunch of data in the archives about this. If anyone has trouble finding it, pipe up and we can all go archive-mining together. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:00:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M0Hvj012280 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LxcVu089247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LxcA5056692; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:59:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JTCR7033784 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:29:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.52]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DdYtr-0004j6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:29:11 -0400 Message-ID: <22479594.1117654151835.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:29:11 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan commented: >So silk satins >are perfectly appropriate for Renaissance Faires, which are generally set >in 16th century England. And we have inventories and other records, >especially wills, listing satin. True: but _silk_ satin is expensive and hard to find, and modern synthetic satins tend to be too lightweight, too slithery, and far too shiny to look like their period equivalents. Not to mention the fact that they generally don't "breathe" and so are rather uncomfortable to wear to summer events (like renfaires). I've seen the wrong side of a heavier than usual synthetic satin used in small amounts with some success, though. And apparently if you can find somethng called "peau de soie", which isn't nearly as brilliantly shiny as ordinary satin, that's a better match for the look of period satin. Although as Joan will tell you, it snags very easily, right Joan? If I remember correctly, you had a panel of it on one of your gowns that barely lasted the season... ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:00:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M0fm4012286 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:00:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51LxxMt089287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LxwKD056978; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:59:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JWWN9036570 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:32:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714A03BD3F for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:32:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 279551509D for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:32:32 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:32:47 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO <<<<"Only kings and queens could wear purple." (Demonstrably not true, but because it's a convention at many Renaissance Faires, a lot of people believe it.)>>>>>> Hmmmm. I've got this lovely simple patterned purple material...hmmmm. I be going in Sept to a RenFest....hmmmm. Do I want to disturb the bovine fecal matter? :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:01:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M0xfF012292 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:01:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M0LQp089353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M0Kp5057308; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51Ja4mW039602 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:36:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 13987 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 19:35:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AU8WQQY9jNBizrg1YSxWcGKZT8n09qCjhj8+YS0OJGSi23zTFMpG1BF3lJme3cNOO6hFZ9sNMl6RCcpMMBkeq30fBKJXAXsgblJhFWyaEW2VO7tjV8n7dXZo55NgVF3EVfH0H1SCbk2oEwuMD73t9hpH6lCpnDWBzu741Ljk8Hk= ; Message-ID: <20050601193559.13985.qmail@web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.19.8] by web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:35:59 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:35:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Galadriel of Lothlorien To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506011800.j51I0Pwr060311@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Satin Question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I know Satin is a weave! :) And yes, the Orient had satins wayyy back when... I should have been more specific in my question. I was thinking narrow-mindedly of western culture. Teehee. Thanks for the responses, though. It looks like it will definitely require some more research. That's interesting about it being in wills! I never would have thought to look there. I'll bet there's all sorts of interesting things to learn from wills! > There are examples of satin weaves used in 16th > century clothing....I've > even seen an extant bit of cut-and-voided velvet > (16th c.) that had a > background of satin weave, which really made the > velvet pile stand out > in contrast. > --sue That sounds absolutely breathtaking! Hm, I may want to "steal" that idea (or "re-create"... right? wink wink). "Is there any hope, Gandalf? . . . For Frodo and Sam?" "There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope." --Pippin and Gandalf, RETURN OF THE KING __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:01:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M1DBR012300 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:01:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M0RDJ089381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M0QgV057415; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M0MiF057337 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZCKS1KTC95O6L7@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:00:16 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZCKRPWWE8WXF07@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:00:16 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:01:34 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E303E.5090008@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: >>Increased fat and protein, same thing happened when McDonalds hit Japan.... >> >> > >**Wow. I hadn't heard that. So the Japanese, still in Japan are taller? > > Young Japanese people are often _much_ taller than their parent-- but I think directly attributing that to McDonalds is rubbish. > <> > >>As for Abe Lincoln, he grew up in the new world, where food was much >>more plentiful, and his family was reasonably well-off. >> >> > >**I thought he "wasn't" reasonably well-off...the log cabin thing and all that? Is that another myth? > > For one thing, the diet of the lower classes in America was probably better than that of the lower classes in Europe. For another, one datum does not a statistic make. >>That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that >>aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove >>wearing crowd? >> >> I don't know-- I do notice that about gloves, but then, my perusal of old catalogues from Canada indicates that the shoe size range available is generally similar to what you'd get in modern shops. (UK 3-8 = roughly US 5-10/11) and that the most common size range for corsets was 18-30 inch waist (ie fitting up to about a 34-35" waist when you take into account the fact that many women's corsets had a 2-3" gap when worn) Maybe it's just that kid leather is prone to shrinkage? >>Costuming myths? Let's see.... >> >>"Women's shirts button the opposite way from men's because women were being dressed by maids." (In previous discussions on this list, we've established that the correlation between buttoning direction and maid service appears nonexistent; instead, it seems to have been a decision, and not always a consistent one, by early ready-to-wear garment manufacturers IIRC.) >> >> > >**Ulp - I thought it was something about keeping the sword arm free. Another myth? > > I think nearly anything that posits a relationship between weapons use and ordinary clothes can be dismissed. >>"Peasants not only sewed, but spun and wove all their own clothing." (Demonstrably not true for most times and places; cloth and second-hand clothing seem to have been available and more or less affordable over much of Europe.) >> >> > >**Interesting. Are we thinking colonial and frontier U.S. instead of Europe? I'm hearing this one regularly, and sometimes from arts judges. I'd love to hear more about inexpensive cloth in period where the ladies of the house would buy their fabric to make their clothes. > > A loom would actually have been a _huge_ investment-- and as such, cloth was woven by professionals. >>"Built-in pockets in clothing are a modern invention." >> >> >**Oops - ignorance alert here. I've been going along with that one. Colonial U.S. had separate "pockets" like a belt pouch. Please, pretty please show me documentation of pockets in period. I'd love to show to our judges when I make something with pockets. I've would have claimed it as a creative touch or modern substitution. > > I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on seperate bands didn't stay popular for at least another 300 years. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:01:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M1Osq012304 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:01:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M0krW089467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M0jIX057703; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JcVi6041541 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:38:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51JcZNs031021 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:38:35 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51JcEKH247156 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:38:30 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601123615.0273a648@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:38:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.e arthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original >of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for >warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with >them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the >mental images this produces are hilarious! The closest I have heard to that is that small dogs, besides being amusing, were warmer than people-body-temperature. And Eskimos do sleep next to dogs on cold nights (or is it the dogs choosing to sleep next to the people?). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:01:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M1hPf012313 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:01:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M15Ij089507 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:01:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M155f058011; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:01:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51JuYXR056642 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:56:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51JuW28032690 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:32 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51JuWuh216456 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:56:33 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601125258.0267d3f8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:56:23 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >This reminds me... >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? "18-inch waists were common." Someone pointed out to me that the average head is something like 22 inches around. So if the photograph shows the head larger than the waist, we're not looking at a photo of any 18-inch waist. And pre-PhotoShop photo re-touching is pretty obvious in most cases. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:02:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M2e4h012327 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:02:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M20jf089613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M20xq058711; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51L1i1s008722 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:01:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j51L1cD02985 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:01:38 -0400 From: "Althea Turner" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:01:38 -0500 Message-Id: <20050601210138.M99418@alfalfapress.com> In-Reply-To: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 1.71 20021114 X-OriginatingIP: 128.193.178.174 (alfalfapress@alfalfapress.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:23:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00), Chris Laning wrote >> BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the > original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I > saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small > furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their > clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! > Why am I hearing in my head strains of the song, "When the squirrel went berzerk in the First Selfrighteous church in the sleepy little town of Tuskagoula" :D Obligatory costume content - I have a chunk 2' x 2' of soft white leather and am not sure what to use it for. I've thought gloves, but am not sure of my ability after one class. Any suggestions for something 16th C Venice or 6th C Francia? Althea *** Directory of Diverse Knowledge http://www.alfalfapress.com/sca Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:03:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M3AP1012332 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:03:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M2WA4089688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:02:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M2Uah059121; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:02:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LZusU036684 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:35:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32393 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:53:26 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:53:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Dawn wrote: > "The little bow on your bra is a holdover from corset lacing. " > ... > Anyway. If your bra has a bow on it, it's because the Edwardians put > bows on everything, and the lingerie industry has continued the > tradition of frilly female underthings. But in a nice example of like-things-recurring over time: The busk on an Elizabethan corset can be secured at the top by a small lace or point or ribbon put through the corset, which (when tied) produces a little bow at the same point we're accustomed to seeing bra bows. And if that's not enough: I don't have a source for this, but I've heard others comment on Elizabethan-era references to the giving of one's busk-lace as an intimate gift from a woman to a man (perhaps suggesting that once the lace is undone, the busk can be removed...). And it seems that within the last few decades, there has been a custom among teenage girls to clip off their bra bows to give to their boyfriends. I'd love to have a source on the giving of busk-strings, just because the parallel is so cute. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:03:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M3Sfj012339 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:03:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M2pIU089728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:02:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M2p8N059382; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:02:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LbQ73037915 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZBREHYSW8Y8L15@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:37:22 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZBREBCFU94GY8M@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:37:22 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:38:39 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question In-reply-to: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E2ADF.2030105@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Karen R Bergquist wrote: >To get the Elizabethan effect with satin you need to choose >something quite heavy, like the stuff they sell for lining coats, and >with a somewhat matte appearance. I know that sounds odd- matte satin, >but there is a spectrum of shininess and to look right in period you >should avoid the super shiny stuff and go for stuff with more of a >'glow'. and of course you need to get the skirt looking full enough so >you have nice luxurious folds of softly shining satin....mmmmmmm.......I >think I feel a satin Elizabethan coming on....... > I think the "good stuff" is sold as Duchesse or delustred satin. It's fairly heavyweight, and popular for wedding gowns and the like. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:03:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M3rTg012353 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M3Gbj089783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:03:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M3FMj059682; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:03:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51LhO64043099 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:43:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZBYT49FK8Y8FH8@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:43:21 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZBYSTQBM94GWM3@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:43:20 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:44:37 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E2C45.7080708@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: >People were smaller then. Just look at all the small uniforms that have been recovered, small armor, etc. (what about some of the 6 foot plus skeletons, etc...Abe Lincoln) So were they mostly smaller? Sure seems to be so in current times. Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it diet? Is it genes? > > It depends what you mean. It's probably safest to say that the heights of _lower_class people have increased a good deal, but those of upper class people by much less. A friend of mine is interested in 19th century militaria and says that many of the jackets he's found have been too small for him-- and he's only 5'7" and slim. Heights are determined by a combination of genetics and diet. And a single example doesn't prove anything about averages-- Lincoln was considered a tall man while he was alive. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:06:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51M6hpp012413 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:06:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51M60O1090077 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:06:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51M60tD061758; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:06:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52810.mail.yahoo.com (web52810.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51M5vg9061664 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 85007 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 22:05:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bx6Umd+ChQr5SjIwfBnnr0c1DItSA9ZnAZ3hbJYsRqjNEW1+E9956E6Ox8BFAqJv2kPaeHkgLhz5xekM25Bp45daE3sJF1PszZRwGktNTwOhsWIhJfTsG2iNIx8mHXVvugRLNqr3o6u724uYtpAzhHNPwJiHgyXAfFwVIy2h7LQ= ; Message-ID: <20050601220551.85005.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52810.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:05:51 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:05:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that > aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove > wearing crowd? I've read in several places that earlier women (Regency, I think) deliberately wore gloves too small for them in order to make their hands look daintier -- thus, the references to the women "working their hands into" their gloves. It would make sense to me that that aesthetic would have continued into the Victorian period. I believe I've also read that about shoes -- have mercy! I can't even imagine the discomfort, if that's true, as the clothes themselves look hot and confining enough without extra torture! I live in an un-air-condititioned Victorian in KS, and I've always joked that I'd have had to be a prostitute, just so I could take my clothes off during the day... KP __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:11:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MBA31012489 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:11:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MAPWl090537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:10:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MAOgQ065215; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:10:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MALWw065170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j51M2DmT015009 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:02:13 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429E3248.6020201@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:10:16 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: > By all means, but I think it's already mentioned in the notes. Oh! Right you are. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:14:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MEKZq012534 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:14:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MDY2D090901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:13:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MDVQ4067604; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:13:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MDRu1067553 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:13:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 935BF3C18A for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:13:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 54958C65E for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:13:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:13:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <429E2CCD.1080106@paradise.net.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have heard that one a few times. Mostly associated with "Italian". So called docs. used for it was the portraits with the little dogs in them. I guess those little critters escaped from the pockets while the portraits were being painted. :) De -----Original Message----- Chris Laning wrote: >BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:16:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MGhUM012564 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:16:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MFgpw091128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:15:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MEgf5068521; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:15:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MEUvr068354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:14:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51MEWjZ080785 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:14:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j51MEWGn080784 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:14:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.28.92 ( [65.93.28.92]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:14:32 -0400 Message-ID: <1117664072.429e33487ab4d@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 18:14:32 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.28.92 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's a corset in the Williamsburg collection measuring around 30 inches. Laura >This reminds me... >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? "18-inch waists were common."  Someone pointed out to me that the average head is something like 22 inches around.  So if the photograph shows the head larger than the waist, we're not looking at a photo of any 18-inch waist.  And pre-PhotoShop photo re-touching is pretty obvious in most cases. -- "If you can't feed a hundred people then just feed one." Mother Theresa -- www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:16:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MGhq4012565 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:16:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MFgSV091126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:15:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MFXPQ069007; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:15:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MFBZm068774 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:15:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZD33V0GW95O6KY@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:15:04 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZD303XYC8WX8NA@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:14:58 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:16:16 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <20050601210138.M99418@alfalfapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E33B0.3070605@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050601210138.M99418@alfalfapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea Turner wrote: >Obligatory costume content - I have a chunk 2' x 2' of soft white leather and >am not sure what to use it for. I've thought gloves, but am not sure of my >ability after one class. Any suggestions for something 16th C Venice or 6th >C Francia? > > > I _would_ go for glowes. But if you're not sure of your ability, fold it up nicely and put it away until you've made a pair out of something less fancy. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:17:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MHgQB012579 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:17:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MGV3T091208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:16:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MGQ1v069739; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MGCLg069510 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:16:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so66020wri for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=IHjlXJ4UTRvHCXZ2i2nAgHpfvahPT+aEWvxHMBVqDtc6D70nQdotFlD2fhbYUY7nPLZE/NanQXt2T3w+OGwERRpM3e5YSF1WTtt8+ECYFLTtBRTxcpY7uXa2vChDw6dFjH2dC67lscvwoRNIwKjovkMOLv5F7xqJjmrdENr0SjY= Received: by 10.54.34.16 with SMTP id h16mr144528wrh; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.21.73 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:16:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:16:07 -0500 From: Onaree Berard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000001c566df$044b6fc0$3c542fd8@Sandra> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> <000001c566df$044b6fc0$3c542fd8@Sandra> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j51MGCLg069510 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 6/1/05, Sandra Olsen wrote: > As for Abe Lincoln, he grew up in the new world, where food was much > more plentiful, and his family was reasonably well-off. Abe Lincoln is a bad example as he had a genetic condition. One year on his birthday the local newspaper compared his height to that of modern basketball players (this was a few years ago) and he was either as tall as the tallest or they could have have the rare pleasure of actually asking someone "How's the weather up there?" as he was just a little taller. I seem to remember a photo of him in a crowd and everyone can up to about his waist. Or was that a first hand description? Does this ring a bell for anyone? > > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that > aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove > wearing crowd? > I think that I've read (in that famous 'somewhere') that small hands were prized so a woman would wear gloves that were as small as possible -- even if it made her hands look like stuffed sausages because they were so tight. Onaree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:17:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MHoiT012585 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:17:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MHDOA091320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:17:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MH9Jt070307; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:17:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MGs5W070084 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:16:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZD5ABN9S94GU7B@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:16:48 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZD4TNFTM8WXCZP@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:16:26 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:17:44 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E3408.9070007@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/905/Wed Jun 1 01:28:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: >And if that's not enough: I don't have a source for this, but I've heard >others comment on Elizabethan-era references to the giving of one's >busk-lace as an intimate gift from a woman to a man (perhaps suggesting >that once the lace is undone, the busk can be removed...). And it seems >that within the last few decades, there has been a custom among teenage >girls to clip off their bra bows to give to their boyfriends. > > Actually, the busk itself could be a gift from a sweetheart. There's a surviving example with the words "Think of me when this you see" carved on it. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:29:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MTvu4012770 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MTEXt092949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:29:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MT9Kx079652; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:29:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51MT61G079611 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-9339); Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:28:54 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:28:54 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050601152728.00dbd300@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:28:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Wearing purple, was RE: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:32 PM 6/1/2005 -0500, you wrote: ><<<<"Only kings and queens could wear purple." (Demonstrably not true, but >because it's a convention at many Renaissance Faires, a lot of people >believe it.)>>>>>> > >Hmmmm. I've got this lovely simple patterned purple material...hmmmm. I be >going in Sept to a RenFest....hmmmm. Do I want to disturb the bovine fecal >matter? :) > >De If you are a ticket-buying visitor, wear whatever you want . Only those who actually work the Faires are covered by such conventions (and they differ from fair to fair). Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:31:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MVWKi012806 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:31:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MUu8o093143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:30:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MUucp080917; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:30:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51MUrIw080841 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:30:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-6748); Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:30:53 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:30:52 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050601152919.00db0350@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:30:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question In-Reply-To: <22479594.1117654151835.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.e arthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:29 PM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Joan commented: > > >So silk satins > >are perfectly appropriate for Renaissance Faires, which are generally set > >in 16th century England. And we have inventories and other records, > >especially wills, listing satin. > >True: but _silk_ satin is expensive and hard to find, and modern synthetic >satins tend to be too lightweight, too slithery, and far too shiny to look >like their period equivalents. Not to mention the fact that they generally >don't "breathe" and so are rather uncomfortable to wear to summer events >(like renfaires). > >I've seen the wrong side of a heavier than usual synthetic satin used in >small amounts with some success, though. And apparently if you can find >somethng called "peau de soie", which isn't nearly as brilliantly shiny as >ordinary satin, that's a better match for the look of period satin. >Although as Joan will tell you, it snags very easily, right Joan? If I >remember correctly, you had a panel of it on one of your gowns that barely >lasted the season... > >____________________________________________________________ >0 Chris Laning >| >+ Davis, California >____________________________________________________________ Yep. I did a kirtle and gown combination, with the kirtle front in the satin. Snagged if you looked at it cross-wise. But it would be fine if used in an indoors situation. Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:49:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MniPp013064 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:49:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Mn3wa094793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:49:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Mm1Ft093027; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:49:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53201.mail.yahoo.com (web53201.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.217]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51MkvWk092362 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:47:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gythaofnorthumbria@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 85407 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 22:46:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ScYBm3fRZV2dBYd4iC7aKIyOK6vjv8vL8UrAVQ/2PE3pbaVfyE9BdD4jxZnSWorFwOHObZPX2/PQhV3zc3j0+pTkbqmUjvAqQJAf3J32nkGOT3qtg+Bz0voeOJ4XmK96gBLHfChTPbx0E0HwSdXZ79ciqoaKInR7BV4By5wtoCM= ; Message-ID: <20050601224652.85405.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.118.100.19] by web53201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:46:52 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:46:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Gytha Stonegrinder Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <429E303E.5090008@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just wanted to add 2 cents on these 2 topics... About the cloth... I suspect that the time period (and probably place) would matter a lot... I've been studying Viking era Danelaw/Greenland/Iceland and medieval Greenland and it appears that many, if not all, homes had a loom, though it was a hanging, weighted loom not a floor loom. Once the floor looms came into vogue weaving became more specialized and the looms more complex and thus more expensive. Also, woven cloth was used as a currency for trade and payment of services, so cloth was not just made at home even then. As to the pockets issue... I can say that in the book "Woven into the Earth" there are pictures of actual 12-13th century gowns with side pockets... some in the gore seam and some in the side seam. The author felt that much of the style on Greenland followed the style of Europe, so I hope that helps with the documentation! Gytha Adele de Maisieres wrote: snippets: >>"Peasants not only sewed, but spun and wove all their own clothing." (Demonstrably not true for most times and places; cloth and second-hand clothing seem to have been available and more or less affordable over much of Europe.) >> >> > >**Interesting. Are we thinking colonial and frontier U.S. instead of Europe? I'm hearing this one regularly, and sometimes from arts judges. I'd love to hear more about inexpensive cloth in period where the ladies of the house would buy their fabric to make their clothes. > > A loom would actually have been a _huge_ investment-- and as such, cloth was woven by professionals. >>"Built-in pockets in clothing are a modern invention." >> >> >**Oops - ignorance alert here. I've been going along with that one. Colonial U.S. had separate "pockets" like a belt pouch. Please, pretty please show me documentation of pockets in period. I'd love to show to our judges when I make something with pockets. I've would have claimed it as a creative touch or modern substitution. > > I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on seperate bands didn't stay popular for at least another 300 years. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:49:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MnpTo013067 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51Mn37j094794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:49:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Mm2bi093035; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53204.mail.yahoo.com (web53204.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.220]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51Mkx3u092380 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gythaofnorthumbria@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 28001 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 22:46:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2o6n0CSFbEML5awYEjnZcTl6X9GdJQh4NBMwV4uEN7jcvRiMpPfAj1iaKUPqO9qKIqvePkg23lCM9A79bGD1RKY4VQdH1gl2aNr3knRZpkLwXj5ilDYPg8aEYKeoJ9XIIKcLDt5YST5kD8Jba3ipi1f3l9LTKyl8kj7qRBmqiD4= ; Message-ID: <20050601224654.27999.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.118.100.19] by web53204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:46:54 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:46:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Gytha Stonegrinder Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <429E303E.5090008@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just wanted to add 2 cents on these 2 topics... About the cloth... I suspect that the time period (and probably place) would matter a lot... I've been studying Viking era Danelaw/Greenland/Iceland and medieval Greenland and it appears that many, if not all, homes had a loom, though it was a hanging, weighted loom not a floor loom. Once the floor looms came into vogue weaving became more specialized and the looms more complex and thus more expensive. Also, woven cloth was used as a currency for trade and payment of services, so cloth was not just made at home even then. As to the pockets issue... I can say that in the book "Woven into the Earth" there are pictures of actual 12-13th century gowns with side pockets... some in the gore seam and some in the side seam. The author felt that much of the style on Greenland followed the style of Europe, so I hope that helps with the documentation! Gytha Adele de Maisieres wrote: snippets: >>"Peasants not only sewed, but spun and wove all their own clothing." (Demonstrably not true for most times and places; cloth and second-hand clothing seem to have been available and more or less affordable over much of Europe.) >> >> > >**Interesting. Are we thinking colonial and frontier U.S. instead of Europe? I'm hearing this one regularly, and sometimes from arts judges. I'd love to hear more about inexpensive cloth in period where the ladies of the house would buy their fabric to make their clothes. > > A loom would actually have been a _huge_ investment-- and as such, cloth was woven by professionals. >>"Built-in pockets in clothing are a modern invention." >> >> >**Oops - ignorance alert here. I've been going along with that one. Colonial U.S. had separate "pockets" like a belt pouch. Please, pretty please show me documentation of pockets in period. I'd love to show to our judges when I make something with pockets. I've would have claimed it as a creative touch or modern substitution. > > I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on seperate bands didn't stay popular for at least another 300 years. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 18:58:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51MwMDu013176 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:58:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51MvdO9095707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:57:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MvY90000374; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:57:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51MvSiw000293 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:57:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZEKINATC94GU7B@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:57:20 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZEKFHGNA8WXAO2@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:57:15 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:58:33 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <20050601224652.85405.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E3D99.4060402@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050601224652.85405.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gytha Stonegrinder wrote: >I just wanted to add 2 cents on these 2 topics... About the cloth... I suspect that the time period (and probably place) would matter a lot... I've been studying Viking era Danelaw/Greenland/Iceland and medieval Greenland and it appears that many, if not all, homes had a loom, though it was a hanging, weighted loom not a floor loom. Once the floor looms came into vogue weaving became more specialized and the looms more complex and thus more expensive. Also, woven cloth was used as a currency for trade and payment of services, so cloth was not just made at home even then. > > Fair cop... I admit I was thinking primarily of 14th-15th century cloth production-- which was mostly professional. >As to the pockets issue... I can say that in the book "Woven into the Earth" there are pictures of actual 12-13th century gowns with side pockets... some in the gore seam and some in the side seam. The author felt that much of the style on Greenland followed the style of Europe, so I hope that helps with the documentation! > > Excellent-- I must have a look at that book. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:00:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51N0sX7013216 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51N0D2g096053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:00:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51N0BJC002332; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:00:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav16.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51N08cc002245 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:00:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:00:03 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:00:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050601125258.0267d3f8@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:00:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Jun 2005 23:00:03.0433 (UTC) FILETIME=[A533ED90:01C566FD] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > "18-inch waists were common." Someone pointed out to me that the average > head is something like 22 inches around. So if the photograph shows the > head larger than the waist, we're not looking at a photo of any 18-inch > waist. And pre-PhotoShop photo re-touching is pretty obvious in most > cases. And from what I heard, a lot of photos were retouched. Not to say that 22 inch waists didn't exist... but people tend to assume that EVERYONE tight-laced, which is far from the truth... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:10:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NArVY013322 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:10:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NA9xH096979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:10:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NA7mr009242; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:10:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NA5u5009220 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:10:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.166] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DdcLc-0001rh-Jp for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:10:05 -0400 Message-ID: <016d01c566ff$091b12b0$05000400@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050601123615.0273a648@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths , esp small dogs Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:09:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b3dc976cd69790d96222e091c12772df8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.166 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re: small dogs for warmth Dogs have an average body heat of 101F to 102.5F- that's 3-4 degrees warmer than a human. Also, with their fur coats and inability to sweat anywhere except their pads, they do a much better job of conserving body heat than us humans. I used to love watching my mother kick the dog (a warlock Doberman) out of his spot by the stove. She'd lie down on it, wrapped in a blanket, and he'd come and lie down along her back. (Stretched out, he was longer than she was.) They'd do tea and PF Milano's and TV together. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:12:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NCmNi013343 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:12:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NCCLe097242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:12:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NCBR4010577; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:12:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NC7Yl010535 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:12:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.26]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DdcNa-0006JV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:12:06 -0400 Message-ID: <30844104.1117667526570.JavaMail.root@wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:12:06 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wrote: >BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! Adele wrote: >I haven't heard that one before, but the mental images it produces are >_hilarious_. I just keep picturing two or three little beasts the size of hamsters, playing hide and seek.... running races, in one sleeve, out the other..... playing "king of the castle" on top of the headdress..... ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:23:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NNc5U013448 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:23:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NLtB9098070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NLpeJ016273; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:21:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NLl9O016236 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:21:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZFEKXZCW94GU7B@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:21:39 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZFEBQWN28WX4TB@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:21:21 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:22:39 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <30844104.1117667526570.JavaMail.root@wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E433F.3090103@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <30844104.1117667526570.JavaMail.root@wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: >I wrote: > > >>BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! >> >> > >Adele wrote: > > >>I haven't heard that one before, but the mental images it produces are >>_hilarious_. >> >> > >I just keep picturing two or three little beasts the size of hamsters, playing hide and seek.... running races, in one sleeve, out the other..... playing "king of the castle" on top of the headdress..... > > Yup... also, some sort of mustelid shooting out of a sleeve and into a pocket opening, across the inside of the skirt... -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:23:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NNq4x013451 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:23:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NMfE7098169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NMedA016746; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NMZDT016693 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51NMX28030046 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:33 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51NMSul191596 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:34 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601161548.024eb360@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:16:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: busk lace (was Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <429E3408.9070007@paradise.net.nz> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>And if that's not enough: I don't have a source for this, but I've heard >>others comment on Elizabethan-era references to the giving of one's >>busk-lace as an intimate gift from a woman to a man (perhaps suggesting >>that once the lace is undone, the busk can be removed...). I heard that about the drawstring from trousers, as an intimate gift in the Middle East. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:23:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NNtSC013454 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:23:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NMdG3098163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NMcVx016720; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NMZnM016689 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51NMX28030008 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:33 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51NMSuj191596 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:34 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601161451.032a9780@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:15:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: glove leather (was Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <429E33B0.3070605@paradise.net.nz> References: <20050601210138.M99418@alfalfapress.com> <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050601210138.M99418@alfalfapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Obligatory costume content - I have a chunk 2' x 2' of soft white leather >>and am not sure what to use it for. I've thought gloves, but am not sure >>of my ability after one class. Any suggestions for something 16th C >>Venice or 6th C Francia? >>I _would_ go for glowes. But if you're not sure of your ability, fold it >>up nicely and put it away until you've made a pair out of something less fancy. Roll it, instead of folding it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:31:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NVkGW013555 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:31:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NUtgQ099244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NUp1T021833; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:30:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NUmVA021786 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:30:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51NU3qb016213 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:30:04 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601162409.032b81d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:30:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the owners head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later heard the same story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s (weevils going after the powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old myth. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:38:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NcuBG013647 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:38:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NMcFV098160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NMaNZ016706; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NMYGA016688 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:22:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51NMW28029978 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:32 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j51NMSuh191596 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:33 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601161025.0329bbf8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:13:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <429E303E.5090008@paradise.net.nz> References: <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Maybe it's just that kid leather is prone to shrinkage? The stitching doesn't shrink, so that can't be it. Probably it's because "back then" smaller people, i.e. children, commonly wore gloves. My guess is that we're seeing children's gloves, or at least adult style gloves worn by teens and pre-teens. >I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a picture of a pair of >Venetians with a pocket set into the side seam. This is _not_ to say that >pockets on seperate bands didn't stay popular for at least another 300 years. One of the doublets of the Sture family has a pocket under a waist-skirt part. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:39:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NdKi9013660 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:39:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NcZP9000331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:38:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NcYw8026314; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:38:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NcVOp026282 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:38:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZG0FPK2O94GU7B@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:38:25 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZG0EOMUA8WXCP1@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:38:23 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:38:26 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: busk lace (was Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050601161548.024eb360@mail.frys.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E46F2.6050202@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <4.3.1.2.20050601161548.024eb360@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>> And if that's not enough: I don't have a source for this, but I've >>> heard >>> others comment on Elizabethan-era references to the giving of one's >>> busk-lace as an intimate gift from a woman to a man (perhaps suggesting >>> that once the lace is undone, the busk can be removed...). >> > > I heard that about the drawstring from trousers, as an intimate gift > in the Middle East. I think I've heard that one too... and I think it's not so much a string as a small sash. It does go throught the trouser waist casing, but it's about 8" wide, made of very light fabric, and has heavily embroidered ends. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:41:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51NffmT013711 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:41:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NeQqJ000505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:40:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NeO4R027382; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51Ne6Vx027163 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZG2CZZ0W94GU7B@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:39:57 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZG2BMBDG8WX56H@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:39:56 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:39:58 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: glove leather (was Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050601161451.032a9780@mail.frys.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E474E.7030503@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050601210138.M99418@alfalfapress.com> <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050601210138.M99418@alfalfapress.com> <4.3.1.2.20050601161451.032a9780@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>> Obligatory costume content - I have a chunk 2' x 2' of soft white >>> leather and am not sure what to use it for. I've thought gloves, >>> but am not sure of my ability after one class. Any suggestions for >>> something 16th C Venice or 6th C Francia? >> > >>> I _would_ go for glowes. But if you're not sure of your ability, >>> fold it up nicely and put it away until you've made a pair out of >>> something less fancy. >> > > Roll it, instead of folding it. Yes, good point... in fact, roll it up with some acid free tissue paper. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 19:59:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j51Nx5bM014050 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:59:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j51NwJbd001809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:58:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j51NwHkE037208; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:58:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51302.mail.yahoo.com (web51302.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j51NwE6J037139 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 36028 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jun 2005 23:58:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=f2+nZq7bKlWhoQGyWb7xP2alyzxsvbH6Rlz55oJeAghqjbVihUaf/XpHoxcKcj/lbNeI5pPQZ5AZ7qxEqGSJnkFprZ6W9PF4xC2kfWx5bNDjyUnERDRYvyUehg2ZBHYZQty649d8W6QrBeXrBLELIh4RfhV83hNEzQIiMlFT3sg= ; Message-ID: <20050601235809.36026.qmail@web51302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.165.183] by web51302.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:58:09 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:58:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050601220551.85005.qmail@web52810.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gloves?? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Intact gloves--weren't gloves as disposable as nylon stockings? They got dirty very fast, and L.M. Alcott makes it a point to show how cleaned gloves weren't best wear any more, if you could even get them clean-ish. Nice thin leather that you'd already gotten wear out of is useful for a lot of things, and 'free'. Ann in CT > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find > Victorian-era gloves that aren't ridiculously tiny. > Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove wearing crowd? __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 20:44:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j520iRs0014952 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:44:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j520hKHx005109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:43:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j520hHei059185; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j520h2U9059008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:43:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5222n5V027762 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:02:54 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:42:51 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> <429E2C45.7080708@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <429E2C45.7080708@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012042.51445.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 5:44 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: [snip] > It depends what you mean. It's probably safest to say that the heights > of _lower_class people have increased a good deal, but those of upper > class people by much less. A friend of mine is interested in 19th > century militaria and says that many of the jackets he's found have been > too small for him-- and he's only 5'7" and slim. Heights are determined > by a combination of genetics and diet. And a single example doesn't > prove anything about averages-- Lincoln was considered a tall man while > he was alive. Exactly. As Oliver Wendell Holmes (allegedly) said, "all generalizations are no good, including this one." Henry VIII of England was apparently around 6 feet 2 inches tall (we have full suits of armor he wore to help confirm it). On the other hand, I've seen Horatio Nelson's uniform coat in the Greenwich Naval Museum, and it's tiny (i.e., I could not fit into it, and I'm only 5 feet 1 inch tall, 130 pounds). What would tell us more is how far from the norm of their respective times Henry and Horatio were. (There's a term in statistics for such a figure, but I forget what that term is.) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 20:55:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j520tjiK015183 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:55:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j520sQtK005995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:54:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j520sP25064907; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:54:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j520ruAZ064703 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:54:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id A8A32B00084; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:53:55 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.32]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:53:55 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:53:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5670d$8fefcb60$20542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 00:53:55.0806 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D9D4FE0:01C5670D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Small hands may indeed be prized, but stuffing ones hands into child-sized gloves seems a little extreme in pursuit of fashion, rather like tightlacing. Surely married, settled women might give in and admit their real size instead of blowing the seams out of every pair. I have very long thin hands and I'm used to fingers on gloves being too short, but surely I can't be so much of an ogre that not even the tips of my fingers will fit! Maybe there's an expert out there who has yet to weigh in? > > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that > aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove > wearing crowd? > I think that I've read (in that famous 'somewhere') that small hands were prized so a woman would wear gloves that were as small as possible -- even if it made her hands look like stuffed sausages because they were so tight. Onaree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 20:56:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j520uiBl015196 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:56:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j520tKcv006075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:55:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j520tKlY065385; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:55:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from email.accessus.net (email.accessus.net [209.145.128.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j520tI3K065296 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:55:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from axejudge@accessus.net) X-AUS-Server: EMAIL Received: from [207.206.137.42] (HELO accessus.net) by email.accessus.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with ESMTP id 316035581 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:55:11 -0500 Message-ID: <429E598C.8080906@accessus.net> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:57:48 -0500 From: Karen Heim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020318 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> <000001c566df$044b6fc0$3c542fd8@Sandra> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is one of the many reasons I like doing historical outfits. My usual joke is that it's hard for me to find gloves that don't have snowmen knitted on the back, because my hands are so small. I love finding gloves at estate sales; most people can't wear them. Even as small as they are, usually the little finger is too long. Karen Onaree Berard wrote: >>That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that >>aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove >>wearing crowd? >> > >I think that I've read (in that famous 'somewhere') that small hands >were prized so a woman would wear gloves that were as small as >possible -- even if it made her hands look like stuffed sausages >because they were so tight. > >Onaree > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:09:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5219vHi015426 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:09:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521998V007532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52197hq073790; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52196Lg073738 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:09:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:09:00 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:09:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> <000001c566df$044b6fc0$3c542fd8@Sandra> <429E598C.8080906@accessus.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:08:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 01:09:00.0801 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9089710:01C5670F] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > This is one of the many reasons I like doing historical outfits. My usual > joke is that it's hard for me to find gloves that don't have snowmen > knitted on the back, because my hands are so small. I love finding gloves > at estate sales; most people can't wear them. Even as small as they are, > usually the little finger is too long. > > Karen This I can relate with. I can usually manage to find small enough gloves, just barely small enough, that is. But for me, the fingers are usually too short. Children's gloves usually fit around the hand but are WAY too short for me. The smallest size of adult gloves will sometimes fit me. Actually... they fit me when there's tons of size small left on the rack because they're too small for everybody else :-) What I still haven't found is a suitable archery glove. I think I'll give up and just buy a pair of second-hand full gloves, and shoot with that. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:18:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521IA15015612 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:18:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521HKsh008209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:17:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521HImI077794; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:17:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521H5Io077667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:17:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j522avOI028295 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:36:57 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:16:59 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <30844104.1117667526570.JavaMail.root@wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <30844104.1117667526570.JavaMail.root@wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012116.59227.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 7:12 pm, Chris Laning wrote: [snip] > I just keep picturing two or three little beasts the size of hamsters, > playing hide and seek.... running races, in one sleeve, out the other..... > playing "king of the castle" on top of the headdress..... I suspect, however, that they really mean small lap dogs (such as the dogs depicted in the January image in the Tres Riches Heures). I doubt women wore them in their clothing, deep sleeves or no. On the other hand, I'm inclined to believe what I have heard about noble ladies incurring the displeasure of priests by taking them to church with them on cold winter mornings. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:21:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521Le3A015711 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:21:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521KVAZ008572 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:20:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521KVLr079508; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:20:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521KItR079330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:20:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j522eAfp028360 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:40:10 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:20:12 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012120.12320.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 3:45 pm, Dawn wrote: [snip] > A little more looking and I found that brassieres and corsets evolved > concurrently through the end of the 19th century. The corset slid down > and turned into more of what we now think of as a control-top garter. > I've seen vintage ads for "bra and corset" sets. The bra was always a > separate garment, supported by straps, where the corset, when it > supported the bust, relied on boning that pushed up from the torso. Really? I don't know of any evidence for a support garment remotely like the brassiere before the late 19-teens--early 1920s. What source do you have in mind? -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:23:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521NR8a015749 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:23:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521MmRD008733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521MlLU080608; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521MZ7Q080496 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZJMJ950W95O6KY@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:22:30 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZJMIH43I8WXFXK@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:22:30 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:23:48 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <200506012116.59227.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E5FA4.2050306@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <30844104.1117667526570.JavaMail.root@wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200506012116.59227.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Wednesday 01 June 2005 7:12 pm, Chris Laning wrote: >[snip] > > >>I just keep picturing two or three little beasts the size of hamsters, >>playing hide and seek.... running races, in one sleeve, out the other..... >>playing "king of the castle" on top of the headdress..... >> >> > > > >I suspect, however, that they really mean small lap dogs (such as the dogs >depicted in the January image in the Tres Riches Heures). I doubt women >wore them in their clothing, deep sleeves or no. On the other hand, I'm >inclined to believe what I have heard about noble ladies incurring the >displeasure of priests by taking them to church with them on cold winter >mornings. > > Kind of a late-medieval Paris Hilton... ugh! -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:24:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521OdF9015765 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:24:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521Nv23008826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:23:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521Nu52081190; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:23:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rastaban.dandy.net (rastaban.dandy.net [209.128.224.29]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521NSET080936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:23:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.236] (acty1236.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.236]) by rastaban.dandy.net (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j521NQxW029811 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:23:27 -0400 Message-ID: <429E5F8D.8020105@dandy.net> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:23:25 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> In-Reply-To: <200506012114.RAA16689@atlas.concentric.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >**That's tiny for adult males. Where were they born? France? > > > >No. Corsica. They were all named Bonaparte, and they all wanted to conquer the world....Just kidding, I couldn't resist, Mike T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:37:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521bJP8016053 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:37:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521aTt9009873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:36:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521aSZS087686; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:36:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521aCcs087524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j522u49U028645 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:56:05 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:36:06 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <30844104.1117667526570.JavaMail.root@wamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200506012116.59227.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429E5FA4.2050306@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <429E5FA4.2050306@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012136.07022.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 9:23 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: [snip] > >I suspect, however, that they really mean small lap dogs (such as the dogs > >depicted in the January image in the Tres Riches Heures). I doubt women > >wore them in their clothing, deep sleeves or no. On the other hand, I'm > >inclined to believe what I have heard about noble ladies incurring the > >displeasure of priests by taking them to church with them on cold winter > >mornings. > > Kind of a late-medieval Paris Hilton... ugh! Human nature hasn't changed--I'm sure there've been Paris H. clones in every generation since Adam and Eve. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:39:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521dlXu016100 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:39:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521d2DX010071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521d1b7089004; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:39:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521cwkn088974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:38:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:53728 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1Ddefh-0001kw-5B for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:38:57 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.102 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2974.198.93.211.102.1117676342.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.102 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050601123615.0273a648@mail.frys.com> References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.e <4.3.1.2.20050601123615.0273a648@mail.frys.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > The closest I have heard to that is that small dogs, besides being > amusing, were warmer than people-body-temperature. And Eskimos do > sleep next to dogs on cold nights (or is it the dogs choosing to sleep > next to the people?). > > Only if they are out away from home at night. If they are home the eskimo sleeps in his home and the dogs outside in the snow or possibly dog houses. Unless they have taken to keeping pet dogs now. Now in our house the dog chooses to sleep with one of the humans if she is cold, or on our bedroom floor if she is not. LOL Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:44:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521iWqT016218 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:44:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521hhdK010760 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521hfpg091564; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:43:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521hbML091540 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:43:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZKDKMK808Y8L15@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:43:32 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZKDECD2M8WXB6Y@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:43:23 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:44:41 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <200506012120.12320.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E6489.20008@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net> <200506012120.12320.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Wednesday 01 June 2005 3:45 pm, Dawn wrote: >[snip] > > > >>A little more looking and I found that brassieres and corsets evolved >>concurrently through the end of the 19th century. The corset slid down >>and turned into more of what we now think of as a control-top garter. >>I've seen vintage ads for "bra and corset" sets. The bra was always a >>separate garment, supported by straps, where the corset, when it >>supported the bust, relied on boning that pushed up from the torso. >> >> > >Really? I don't know of any evidence for a support garment remotely like the >brassiere before the late 19-teens--early 1920s. What source do you have in >mind? > > > > In 1889 Herminie Cadolle of France invented a two-peice undergarment set called /le bien-être/ (the wellbeing) consisting of a corset for the waist and hips and an upper half supporting the breasts by means of shoulder straps. By 1905 the upper half was being sold separately as a *soutien-gorge* (breast support), which is still the term used fro bras in France. In 1893, Marie Tucek patented the “Breast Supporter” – similar to a modern bra that in that it supported the breasts in pockets of fabric. In America, Mary Phelps Jacob was granted the first U.S. patent for the brassiere, in 1913. Her invention is most widely recognized as the predecessor to the modern bra. She sold the patent to the Warner Brothers Corset Company. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 21:48:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j521m7Sf016280 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:48:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j521lPup011053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:47:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521lOQT093488; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:47:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j521lKmh093418 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:47:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (unknown[204.127.197.129](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050602014715015009f5d3e>; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:47:15 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.111; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:47:13 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:47:13 +0000 Message-Id: <060220050147.18586.429E65210000DE420000489A22069984990809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm, I've got to share this: Back in my younger days...say around 1978, I was sitting in church and the lady in the seat in front of me had an elaborately teased and hairsprayed like a rock up do. Lo and behond I saw a spider, leisurely wandering through the stiffened mass of hair. I gingerly took my crochet hook, enticed it out of the little nest and promptly stomped on it. She gave me the dirtiest look and didn't believe me when I explained what had happened. But I promise you it was true! I do not like spiders anywhere in my immediate vicinty, and thus the intruder had to go, even though it was on someone else's head! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? > > What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived > there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could > have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early > 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the owners > head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later heard the same > story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s (weevils going after the > powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old myth. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 22:46:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j522kKKm017317 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:46:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j522ix76015236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:44:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j522ijkL022429; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:44:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j522iSgG022254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5244LPF029949 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:04:21 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:44:22 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200506012120.12320.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429E6489.20008@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <429E6489.20008@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012244.22637.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j522iSgG022254 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 9:44 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: [snip ] > >Really? I don't know of any evidence for a support garment remotely like > > the brassiere before the late 19-teens--early 1920s. What source do you > > have in mind? > > In 1889 Herminie Cadolle of France invented a two-peice undergarment set > called /le bien-être/ (the wellbeing) consisting of a corset for the > waist and hips and an upper half supporting the breasts by means of > shoulder straps. By 1905 the upper half was being sold separately as a > *soutien-gorge* (breast support), which is still the term used fro bras > in France. Yes, "soutien-gorge" is still the term used. I was aware of Ms. Jacob's invention but not Mlle. (Mme.?) Cadolle's. Do you know of anywhere I could find an image of it on line? > > In 1893, Marie Tucek patented the “Breast Supporter” – similar to a > modern bra that in that it supported the breasts in pockets of fabric. Another image I should track down. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, though, considering how many designs were patented for crinolines and bustles. Thank you so much for the information! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 22:46:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j522ku9x017321 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:46:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j522jrYR015373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j522jqPN023233; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j522jdHP022968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5245VJf029986 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:05:32 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:45:33 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <060220050147.18586.429E65210000DE420000489A22069984990809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <060220050147.18586.429E65210000DE420000489A22069984990809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012245.33282.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 9:47 pm, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: > Hmmm, I've got to share this: Back in my younger days...say around 1978, I > was sitting in church and the lady in the seat in front of me had an > elaborately teased and hairsprayed like a rock up do. Lo and behond I saw > a spider, leisurely wandering through the stiffened mass of hair. I > gingerly took my crochet hook, enticed it out of the little nest and > promptly stomped on it. > > She gave me the dirtiest look and didn't believe me when I explained what > had happened. But I promise you it was true! I do not like spiders > anywhere in my immediate vicinty, and thus the intruder had to go, even > though it was on someone else's head! Some of the reports of the wildlife harbored by the high hairstyles of the 1780s are similar. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 22:56:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j522ugHi017483 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j522tPew016235 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:55:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j522tO6o027883; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j522tM1i027859 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:55:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j522tK28015560 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:55:20 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j522tGdJ284478 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:55:20 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050601195510.024ef608@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:55:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the owners head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later heard the same story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s (weevils going after the powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old myth. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 23:11:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j523B2sK017714 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:11:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j523A4Ir017319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:10:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523A3Ep035213; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:10:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5239oa2035044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:10:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j524ThN8030423 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:29:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:09:43 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050601224652.85405.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050601224652.85405.qmail@web53201.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012309.44166.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 6:46 pm, Gytha Stonegrinder wrote: [snip] > I can say that in the book "Woven into the Earth" > there are pictures of actual 12-13th century gowns with side pockets... > some in the gore seam and some in the side seam. [rest snipped] Where? I have "Woven Into the Earth" and I don't see anything that demonstrates the existence of modern, integral-to-the-garment pockets. The discussion on p. 94 does refer to "pocket slits", but that could refer to slits made so that pouches or pockets on a string (such as the 18th c ones) worn underneath could be easily reached. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 23:13:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j523D1FN017739 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j523C6lm017449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:12:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523C5l1036197; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:12:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j523C0Si036110 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:12:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK68HJAYZ3F7A for (sender ); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:11:36 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhguXOmXYkpvylX0qiUO0tCo4= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUF7J39J; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:11:07 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:05:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Message-ID: <20050601.201014.860.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4-8,10-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 3:5:2805830406 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I suspect, however, that they really mean small lap dogs (such as > the dogs depicted in the January image in the Tres Riches Heures). I doubt > women wore them in their clothing, deep sleeves or no. On the other hand, > I'm inclined to believe what I have heard about noble ladies incurring > the displeasure of priests by taking them to church with them on cold > winter mornings. Why wouldn't you? Nuns did. More than one papal bull was directed at the good sisters for having pets and then bringing them to church. Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 23:27:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j523R2GE017962 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:27:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j523QHpm018621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:26:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523QFKM043584; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:26:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j523QDLl043535 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:26:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 44356 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2005 03:26:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Ygh8Vfc0Dj5VFk0PX+Aua8vv0nBi5KZl9SG1I7tyXgMLbzhhLwubvpY7oAgvvegByxr6Gqb840VrZ+8V5sApVzuvB51isb58zlt2X5DfEDoHfm0nY4P7TGbyIu7pd5v1PciB+42uwjUgxENhcBkVFuEIfvOmcU2NfzVtTdrdQns= ; Message-ID: <20050602032608.44354.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:26:08 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:26:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah ....but there so began the myth of "Is that a weasal in your pocket,or are you just happy to see me?" ;~> --- Chris Laning wrote: > Costuming myths? Let's see.... > >> > BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer > locate the original of, which means it must be at > least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, > medieval women frequently carried small furry > animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves > of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental > images this produces are hilarious! > > ____________________________________________________________ > 0 Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > _ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 23:27:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j523Rl8e017981 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:27:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j523Qw9E018725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:26:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523QwjK043937; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:26:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523QqUc043884 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:26:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LOZNYNA5U88WX8UH@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:26:48 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LOZNYMVAVS8WXAQH@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:26:48 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:28:06 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <200506012244.22637.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429E7CC6.7070909@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200506012120.12320.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429E6489.20008@paradise.net.nz> <200506012244.22637.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >>In 1889 Herminie Cadolle of France invented a two-peice undergarment set >>called /le bien-être/ (the wellbeing) consisting of a corset for the >>waist and hips and an upper half supporting the breasts by means of >>shoulder straps. By 1905 the upper half was being sold separately as a >>*soutien-gorge* (breast support), which is still the term used fro bras >>in France. >> >> > >Yes, "soutien-gorge" is still the term used. > >I was aware of Ms. Jacob's invention but not Mlle. (Mme.?) Cadolle's. Do you >know of anywhere I could find an image of it on line? > > Sadly, no... I did have a quick hunt around, but no luck. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 23:36:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j523aGAB018073 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:36:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j523ZMGq019320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523ZLpa047921; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:35:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523Z7r8047751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:35:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j524t0Ds030870 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:55:01 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:35:01 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200506012244.22637.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429E7CC6.7070909@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <429E7CC6.7070909@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506012335.02068.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j523Z7r8047751 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 01 June 2005 11:28 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >>In 1889 Herminie Cadolle of France invented a two-peice undergarment set > >>called /le bien-être/ (the wellbeing) consisting of a corset for the > >>waist and hips and an upper half supporting the breasts by means of > >>shoulder straps. By 1905 the upper half was being sold separately as a > >>*soutien-gorge* (breast support), which is still the term used fro bras > >>in France. > > > >Yes, "soutien-gorge" is still the term used. > > > >I was aware of Ms. Jacob's invention but not Mlle. (Mme.?) Cadolle's. Do > > you know of anywhere I could find an image of it on line? > > Sadly, no... I did have a quick hunt around, but no luck. Thanks. I'll troll a bit for it myself and if I get lucky, I'll post the result. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 23:43:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j523hbR2018186 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:43:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j523gmAQ019880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:42:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523glbj051484; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:42:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523gh5s051451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:42:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:57989 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DdgbW-0004Mq-Nl for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:42:47 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.102 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3215.198.93.211.102.1117683768.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.102 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050601162409.032b81d0@mail.frys.com> References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050601162409.032b81d0@mail.frys.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >>What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal >> with? > > What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived > there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could > have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early > 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the > owners head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later > heard the same story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s > (weevils going after the powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old > myth. > In the midwest the rumor went around that women had died from black widow spiders taking up residence in the beehive hairdo and being provoked perhaps by scratching or other irritation, stung the wearer to death. don't know if it was true, but I found a black widow spider on my pillow one morning the first year I lived in Colorado. scared of spiders ever since. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 1 23:44:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j523iH3S018193 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:44:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j523heas019965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:43:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j523hdWn051905; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:43:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j523haFr051834 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:43:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52193 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2005 03:43:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tkv+xkeb6IEJLYQbyhNEwHO+A+ti6Jeo7YUwgB6nvYHx+sAg9OloLeUOq1qApK8jAZ4Xk0OmEedWiRcW7b3ZcqumIEVcJqYDdu46Vh8ECLuX20R9v7L6olsq8EDq0NWGTjtqXnUs6j8QKwSgOe9oSVLBgli7ApJMYAVDBPNOJUE= ; Message-ID: <20050602034331.52191.qmail@web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:43:31 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:43:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jun 2005, Dawn wrote: > > > "The little bow on your bra is a holdover from > corset lacing. " > > ...Snip.... > > > But in a nice example of like-things-recurring over > time: The busk on an Elizabethan corset can be secured at the top by a small lace or point or > ribbon put through the corset, which (when tied) > produces a little bow at the same point we're accustomed to seeing bra bows. > > And if that's not enough: I don't have a source for > this, but I've heard others comment on Elizabethan-era references to the giving of one's > busk-lace as an intimate gift from a woman to a man > (perhaps suggesting > that once the lace is undone, the busk can be > removed...). Comment: I seem to remember seeing in the BBC production of Elizabeth R an episode when she is holding the Spanish Prince at bay, by sending him a present of a ribbon from her corset or busk...quite a darling & intimate gift for a suitor....after recieving quite a few of these ribbons, he gets miffed and tossese them to the floor. Where they got this "factoid" for the production I don't know..... > I'd love to have a source on the giving of > busk-strings, just because the > parallel is so cute. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 00:29:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j524TAKY018828 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:29:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j524SOL0023833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:28:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j524SLvj074559; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:28:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j524SDJn074448 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.67.461002e8 (16781) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:28:01 -0400 (EDT) From: TeaRoseS@aol.com Message-ID: <67.461002e8.2fcfe4d0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:28:00 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Men's Flemish peasant garb To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That hay-in-art site is interesting, but the painting I was talking about isn't on it. I will try to get my book back from the person who borrowed it so I can scan the image for you. It didn't occur to me that it would be so hard to find online. Tara _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 00:51:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j524pkZw019132 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:51:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j524p8gb025282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:51:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j524p7Ec084939; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:51:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j524p45H084886 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:51:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 49892 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2005 04:50:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jH3cnQa1KzqFH/l7s/P8aguvSEPg5kq0B/5Slwa9iiyoAVKqjnG/4NrAduRRD/h1vWVMEMsELxjI1GIn0EfzwzLCEPDnSrRAOfl2zApGMsYxh4iNwrD94gYxsheO4Yrlvzxj9LDDuHzNfiMSOn2doL5BMygimNmEIuuwT2yurr8= ; Message-ID: <20050602045059.49887.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:50:59 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:50:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000001c5670d$8fefcb60$20542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My personal experience,: I still have a pair of kid gloves I first acquired at about age of 6 or 8. These were my "church" gloves. I took those poor crumpled gloves out the other day, worked them in my hands, softening the skin,warming them, and "worked" my now adult hands into them. only a slight "strain' showed at the thumb seam line. So ,when they say the ladies "worked" their hands into the gloves for some times before going out,it is true. The reason why the gloves are cut so small,_I_ think is the fact that they do indeed stretch out quite a bit after warming and wearing them...if they were cut large to begin with you'd have probably lost them off your hands. We don't have the patience to smooth, stretch,smooth ,stretch our selves into those gloves. They do look lovely when finally on, and fit like surgical gloves(commercial mode: "so flexible you can pick up a dime") I have a modern pair I bought from a lady "4 in hand" coach driver, kid skin,bitty, and smeling wonderful. Her instructions were the same, "warm ,stretch, ,put on, warm,stretch,warm, tug a bit, repeat" And a note: my adult hands resemble "donald Duck's feet,palm is almost perfectly square-about 3"x3" with longish fingers, ...not dainty by far...the gloves are about 2" across. --- Sandra Olsen wrote: > Small hands may indeed be prized, but stuffing ones > hands into > child-sized gloves seems a little extreme in pursuit > of fashion, rather > like tightlacing. Surely married, settled women > might give in and admit > their real size instead of blowing the seams out of > every pair. > > I have very long thin hands and I'm used to fingers > on gloves being too > short, but surely I can't be so much of an ogre that > not even the tips > of my fingers will fit! > > Maybe there's an expert out there who has yet to > weigh in? > > > > > > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find > Victorian-era gloves that > > aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even > among the kid-glove > > wearing crowd? > > > > I think that I've read (in that famous 'somewhere') > that small hands > were prized so a woman would wear gloves that were > as small as > possible -- even if it made her hands look like > stuffed sausages > because they were so tight. > > Onaree > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 01:11:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j525Bcv3019472 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:11:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j525Ajl2026775 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:10:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j525Ai0W093698; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j525AeJY093640 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:10:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050602051034.SEZT2892.avmta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:10:34 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.200.185]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050602051034.OBOC8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:10:34 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [267.4.0]); Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:10:34 +1200 Message-ID: <011101c56731$67e77e50$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:10:33 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Somebody mentioned satin at Ren Faires, something that > has always really bugged me for the supposed era > people are trying to dress in. My question is this: > when exactly was the earliest known appearance of > satin, and when did it become more common? Clearly > the 1700s is riddled with good examples but what about > before that? I can't believe no one has mentioned the glorious red satin doublet of Charles the bold! It is a stunningly lustrous garment even now! I think I have some images of it in my photobucket account.. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/sca/DSCN2084.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/glittersweet/sca/DSCN2080.jpg The doublet is from the 1570s, and I'm pretty sure I've seen satin mentioned in the Privy Purse Accounts from the Richard III society, probably around 1500. http://caterinaetcetera.tripod.com/reference-elysabeth.htm http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/ms154/ArmingCoat/assembly.htm "Extant examples sported satin linings, and that made good sense for my effort. " Not sure which ones, but on the page on the history of arming doublets there are a few extant doublets. http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/ms154/ArmingCoat/history.htm Of course Eleanora di Toledo was buried in a satin gown, and when you look at the photos in Patterns of Fashion it still has a fair bit of lustre. Especially seen in the close up of the side back lacing. http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20011109/high/0332-013.jpg http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20011109/high/0332-014.jpg 1580-1600, cloak Red satin, couched and embroidered with silver, silver-gilt and coloured silk threads, trimmed with silver-gilt and silk thread fringe and tassel, and lined with pink linen museum number 793-1901 I understand it looks more lustrous in real life, brighter red as well. There is much more research out ther that has been done (possibly books about silk would be a good place to start as well as wills and the like) just perhpas not in a readily accessable site;) michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 1/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 01:39:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j525dr5f019923 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:39:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j525d47g029003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j525d1EN005521; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:39:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:VdVXsy9NbIUwpILlKAjD1t1vi9T8qrFh@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j525cxqX005501 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:39:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.121] (pool180-217.patriot.net [209.249.180.217]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j525cmgx003472 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:38:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050601125258.0267d3f8@mail.frys.com> References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050601125258.0267d3f8@mail.frys.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:25:41 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >And pre-PhotoShop photo re-touching is pretty obvious in most cases. The ones I've seen have the lady against a dark background - sitting on a dark chair, for example. So the retouching is not obvious, because they pick a plain background in order for it to work. >Maybe it's just that kid leather is prone to shrinkage? When is the last time kid gloves were made? So there they are at various antique stores, a shrinking cache, the larger ones being sold before the smaller ones. Not to mention the doll makers who buy them to cut off the tips for doll shoes! Although the stretching makes sense, I think it's becoming more and more a lucky find for gloves that fit an average or large size hand. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 01:44:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j525ieMP020012 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:44:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j525hifs029248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:43:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j525hiwb007404; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:43:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j525hgM5007351 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:43:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK7HDLADBWCYS for (sender ); Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:43:06 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgrPqXBQPP5RrI6yBONBlQJA= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUGF84H5; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 22:42:57 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:38:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Message-ID: <20050601.224230.1832.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-3,5-11,17-18 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 6:3:1771340840 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:01:38 -0500 "Althea Turner" writes: > Why am I hearing in my head strains of the song, "When the squirrel > went berzerk in the First Selfrighteous church in the sleepy little town > of Tuskagoula" > > :D You WOULD bring that up!!! ;D Regarding busk points--there's an English madrigal that mentions them. Apparently for a man to gain a lady's favor to the end that she gave him one was quite the prize. The song mentions a fellow recieving a busk points with the tags (ties) off. I can't remember what it's called at the moment, although I swear I hear the King's Singers performing the relevent bits in my head. ;) Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 02:20:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j526KlGa027316 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j526JMuV031225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:19:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526JDQ0021894; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:19:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526J9o2021858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:19:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-221-172-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.221.172]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j526J6bO022024 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:19:08 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c5673a$d097caa0$acddf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:01:52 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! Actually I believe this may have been imported, I believe the Chinese Emperors actually did have dogs in their sleeves (but then again I may be perpetuating a costume myth here) so I'd expect somebody made a joke about Houpellande sleeves being the right shape for something similar, and somebody took it as fact. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 02:21:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j526LlIf027673 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j526KW3O031327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:20:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526KWuZ022482; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:20:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526JGWO021911 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:19:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j526J9ZC028114 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:19:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050602011612.00c4cff8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:18:38 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Satin Question In-Reply-To: <20050601193559.13985.qmail@web32914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200506011800.j51I0Pwr060311@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yup, wills are a font of information. While I mainly work with 16th century wills, I have seen it in 15th century English wills as well as, "silk of Saracen work" - it was bedding in a priest's will... Cheers, Danielle At 12:35 PM 6/1/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Yes, I know Satin is a weave! :) And yes, the Orient >had satins wayyy back when... I should have been more >specific in my question. I was thinking >narrow-mindedly of western culture. Teehee. Thanks >for the responses, though. It looks like it will >definitely require some more research. That's >interesting about it being in wills! I never would >have thought to look there. I'll bet there's all >sorts of interesting things to learn from wills! > > > There are examples of satin weaves used in 16th > > century clothing....I've > > even seen an extant bit of cut-and-voided velvet > > (16th c.) that had a > > background of satin weave, which really made the > > velvet pile stand out > > in contrast. > > --sue > > >That sounds absolutely breathtaking! Hm, I may want >to "steal" that idea (or "re-create"... right? wink >wink). > > > >"Is there any hope, Gandalf? . . . For Frodo and Sam?" >"There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope." > >--Pippin and Gandalf, RETURN OF THE KING > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 02:56:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j526u90K007345 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:56:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j526sagJ033253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526sYpG037752; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:54:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j526sRBU037633 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:54:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sismith42@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 12579 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2005 06:54:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VVPQ57RDugNB0xhlEScQkftDbZfSWe+xGFCi6uCzqFxfkCRw5OIMCEDJu4iUpAOdqbAn8bcX8pEdGZ4sCtEdX3m2A8Pr39EPyqgluZdZMCH+VUvy7DjPB+RG0PB+OF3axJ+Jz2dEmbHv4JhbsOYxL9drKhENOshELUb1aQBiXw8= ; Message-ID: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [4.243.224.235] by web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:54:21 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephanie Smith To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506012213.j51MDWVv067619@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: >**Ulp - I thought it was something about keeping the sword arm free. Another myth? Adele replied: I think nearly anything that posits a relationship between weapons use and ordinary clothes can be dismissed. I comment: Why do you think this? Certainly there have been points in history in which military "style" has influenced civilian style (eg: late 1990's, when camos were cool, Regency/Napoleonic times, when ladies wore Scarlet outfits with gold frogging-- or is that another urban legend I believe in? *g*)... why would influence due to function be so very different? Adele wrote: I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on separate bands didn't stay popular for at least another 300 years. I reply: Awesome! I have Renaissance-minded, pocket-loving (addicted?) friends who will be thrilled when they learn about this! (I, too, believed in the "fichets, not pockets for pre-modern days" myth.) Out of curiosity, why did the "old" method stick around for so long? Cheers, Stephanie __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 02:57:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j526vodO007953 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:57:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j526v6ei033387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526v66B038780; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay14-dav5.bay14.hotmail.com [64.4.48.109]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526v4Ft038732 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:57:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from victoria_arrington@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:56:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 68.224.30.212 by BAY14-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 06:56:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [68.224.30.212] X-Originating-Email: [victoria_arrington@hotmail.com] X-Sender: victoria_arrington@hotmail.com From: "VAA" To: , References: <200506011945.j51Jis45047321@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:57:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 06:56:59.0039 (UTC) FILETIME=[456EE2F0:01C56740] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 355 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry >animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! You are kidding, right? That is not even close to being logical! Mine is the old "women removed their ribs for tinier waists". Hmm, in the days of antique medicine, you would have to be rather vain for that one. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 02:58:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j526w7hF008049 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:58:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j526vQrk033446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:57:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526vQtb038961; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:57:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay14-dav5.bay14.hotmail.com [64.4.48.109]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j526v4xo038734 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 00:57:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from victoria_arrington@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:56:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 68.224.30.212 by BAY14-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 06:56:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [68.224.30.212] X-Originating-Email: [victoria_arrington@hotmail.com] X-Sender: victoria_arrington@hotmail.com From: "VAA" To: , References: <200506011945.j51Jis45047321@net.indra.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:57:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 06:56:59.0039 (UTC) FILETIME=[456EE2F0:01C56740] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 355 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >BTW, my favorite costume myth is one I can no longer locate the original of, which means it must be at least fifteen years since I saw it: that for warmth, medieval women frequently carried small furry >animals around with them in the pockets and sleeves of their clothing.... for me at least, the mental images this produces are hilarious! You are kidding, right? That is not even close to being logical! Mine is the old "women removed their ribs for tinier waists". Hmm, in the days of antique medicine, you would have to be rather vain for that one. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 04:41:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j528fY8d000589 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 04:41:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j528eSAD042159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:40:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528ePjo081315; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528eKQu081013 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:40:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j528ddd06291.; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:39:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:39:39 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:39:24 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j528eKQu081013 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Cavaliers and Roundheads could be instantly told apart by their style of dress." (Clothing differences had much more to do with social class; officers on both sides dressed similarly, although a few wealthy Parliamentarians affected plain "Puritan" styles on principle.) Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> jtknits@jtknits.cts.com 01/06/2005 19:38 >>> This reminds me... What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? _____________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 04:48:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j528mbPN002828 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 04:48:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j528lbbn043976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:47:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528la04083907; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528lXSg083844 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:47:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j528lQd06908.; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:47:26 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:47:25 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:47:09 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j528lXSg083844 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> AnnBWass@aol.com 01/06/2005 15:35 >>> >In a message dated 6/1/2005 9:52:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >cvirtue+dated+1133185394.46599e@thibault.org writes: >NB "Beard" in this context probably means "moustache", as full >beards were >not normally worn at this time. >No, I think "beard" means all facial hair. Pepys was a proponent of >self-shaving. After trying the stone, he later switched to a razor. A >later entry, "without being shaved I am not fully awake nor ready to >settle to business." But he says he suddenly decided to remove his beard "which I had been a great while bringing up". This suggests a deliberately cultivated area of facial hair, not just a few days' stubble. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 04:56:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j528uZXT004845 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 04:56:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j528tuql046289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528ttgO086956; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:55:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528tqUP086893 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:55:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j528tkd07637.; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:55:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:55:46 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:55:24 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j528tqUP086893 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> cathy@thyrsus.com 02/06/2005 01:42 >>> >Exactly. As Oliver Wendell Holmes (allegedly) said, "all >generalizations are no good, including this one." Henry VIII of England >was apparently around 6 feet 2 inches tall (we have full suits of >armor he wore to help confirm it). >On the other hand, I've seen Horatio Nelson's uniform coat in the >Greenwich Naval Museum, and it's tiny (i.e., I could not fit into it, and >I'm only 5 feet 1 inch tall, 130 pounds). Yes, and King Charles I was around 5 feet tall, but his son Charles II (who allegedly took after his French grandfather) was "above two yards high". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 04:57:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j528vaL5004967 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 04:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j528uw7W046619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528uwP2087398; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j528ut4h087247 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 02:56:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j528und07750.; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:56:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:56:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:56:18 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j528ut4h087247 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "If you wish to live and thrive, Let the spider run alive." Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net 02/06/2005 02:47 >>> Hmmm, I've got to share this: Back in my younger days...say around 1978, I was sitting in church and the lady in the seat in front of me had an elaborately teased and hairsprayed like a rock up do. Lo and behond I saw a spider, leisurely wandering through the stiffened mass of hair. I gingerly took my crochet hook, enticed it out of the little nest and promptly stomped on it. She gave me the dirtiest look and didn't believe me when I explained what had happened. But I promise you it was true! I do not like spiders anywhere in my immediate vicinty, and thus the intruder had to go, even though it was on someone else's head! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? > > What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived > there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could > have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early > 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the owners > head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later heard the same > story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s (weevils going after the > powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old myth. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 05:04:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52942Ju005668 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:04:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5293FGP048322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:03:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5293Edi089988; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:03:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5293ATT089936 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:03:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j52934d08383.; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:03:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:03:03 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:02:55 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5293ATT089936 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When male and female button direction was discussed on this list several years ago, I quoted the assertion from a boys' book of my father's, circa 1917, that men's coats buttoned left over right so the sword would not catch in the opening. It was agreed that this doesn't make sense - when you draw a sword, you don't pull it across your front. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> sismith42@yahoo.com 02/06/2005 07:54 >>> Julie wrote: >**Ulp - I thought it was something about keeping the sword arm free. Another myth? Adele replied: I think nearly anything that posits a relationship between weapons use and ordinary clothes can be dismissed. I comment: Why do you think this? Certainly there have been points in history in which military "style" has influenced civilian style (eg: late 1990's, when camos were cool, Regency/Napoleonic times, when ladies wore Scarlet outfits with gold frogging-- or is that another urban legend I believe in? *g*)... why would influence due to function be so very different? Adele wrote: I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on separate bands didn't stay popular for at least another 300 years. I reply: Awesome! I have Renaissance-minded, pocket-loving (addicted?) friends who will be thrilled when they learn about this! (I, too, believed in the "fichets, not pockets for pre-modern days" myth.) Out of curiosity, why did the "old" method stick around for so long? Cheers, Stephanie __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 05:28:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j529SgT0009673 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:28:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j529RnAR055564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:27:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j529Rc2j099936; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j529RZFT099909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-221-101-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.221.101]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j529RUM1017781 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:27:33 +1000 Message-ID: <000301c56755$2012a0e0$65ddf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c566df$044b6fc0$3c542fd8@Sandra> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:18:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find Victorian-era gloves that > aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even among the kid-glove > wearing crowd? well, statistically, there was quite a drop in height (and therefore overall size) at the beginning of the 19th century, plus tight gloves were another one of those immobilising signs of status. and (as others have mentioned) they may not actually be adult gloves. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 05:35:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j529ZOF6010913 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j529YTGc057495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j529YTdT002783; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:34:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j529YQvb002682 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHG000TDAKAHT@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 05:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 05:34:32 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Men's Flemish peasant garb In-reply-to: <67.461002e8.2fcfe4d0@aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429ED2A8.1060508@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <67.461002e8.2fcfe4d0@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, don't worry. I have had no time (10 is earliest i've got home lately, and i leave at 6am sharp) to do anything about it. when i get a breather, i will stop at the library. I should today or they will send back my books on tape, but they are not open by the time i get near home (complain, complain, complain!) TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > > >That hay-in-art site is interesting, but the painting I was talking about >isn't on it. I will try to get my book back from the person who borrowed it so >I can scan the image for you. It didn't occur to me that it would be so hard >to find online. > >Tara > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 05:41:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j529f6oD014066 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:41:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j529bqVF058260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:37:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j529bpgN004283; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:37:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j529bnBx004226 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 03:37:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHG00C2JAR67Z@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 05:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 05:38:17 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <000301c56755$2012a0e0$65ddf5dc@e9q5h8> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429ED389.20502@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <000001c566df$044b6fc0$3c542fd8@Sandra> <000301c56755$2012a0e0$65ddf5dc@e9q5h8> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drop in hight? Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >well, statistically, there was quite a drop in height (and therefore overall >size) at the beginning of the 19th century, > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 07:30:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52BU2T2025166 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52BSv1b064770 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:28:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52BSsHx048148; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52BSmpb048085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:28:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52CmcVn007732 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:48:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:28:37 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506020728.37682.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 02 June 2005 2:54 am, Stephanie Smith wrote: [snip] > Adele wrote: > I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a > picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into > the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on > separate bands didn't stay popular for at least > another 300 years. I grabbed for my copy when I read that. Actually, Arnold describes two pair of upper hose with pockets, both dated to the late 1610s. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 08:03:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52C3XQW025474 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:03:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52C2dov066728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:02:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52C2cCF062251; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (granite1.mail.cornell.edu [128.253.83.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52C2W1U062190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:02:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52C5R0h002732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:02:31 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <42989F00.4050108@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Copper lace. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Copper lace ca. 1560. from Theater Inventory listings >Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have seen >of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? > >Thanks, Sg >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 08:17:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52CH8Pr025615 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:17:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52CGI6N067679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:16:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52CG8Ha068198; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52CG2Lx068157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:16:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j52C7tmT022552 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:07:55 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:16:01 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So what do y'all figure the powder in the hair was for? To keep it from looking oily? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 08:27:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52CRhsg025729 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:27:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52CQrJY068451 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:26:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52CQqha072708; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:26:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52CQmub072634 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:26:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 7482 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2005 12:26:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2005 12:26:42 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050602131940.014ded58@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:24:41 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys In-Reply-To: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:16 02/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >So what do y'all figure the powder in the hair was for? To keep it from >looking oily? > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > >"Before I die with a hammer in my hand, >I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, >Get me a steam drill too!" > -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry Powder was used in hair to make it the colour required, mostly white or grey but coloured powders were used too. (Later, 18th century wigs were stiffened, shaped and coloured with pipeclay.) It is perfectly probable that "creatures" would like it, as it was food based, I believe, like powdered orris root, which also smells wonderful (when fresh!) or other substances. There is a good book on Hair and hairdressing, probably out of print, by Richard Corson. It has detailed information on 5000 years of hairdressing, quotes on the subject and many line drawings of hair and wig styles through the centuries. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 08:43:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52ChXsi025880 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:43:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52Cgbat069875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Cgbpq080074; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52CgYUb080015 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from corbiegirl@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 7334 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2005 12:42:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=phXRDz34i5g/2sWCSPoNaGh1jBbDDqRKfLWRhxMGsEhF0nDDBfRjNoZNlcgoHexzMEKZNAm8xu8FHVAshWJlrYEwMqCCgfzueKOQGq3nj/aexflUbcTA5gKwzS/lU6A6Yz3p2SNHvJMACAk/gLBTofKbZTfpzGdB8VuZo5xz0FQ= ; Message-ID: <20050602124228.7332.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.171] by web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 05:42:28 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:42:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506012213.j51MDWVv067619@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] handspun/handwoven, was costume myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, we've had several discussions on the 18cWoman list about handspun. Yes, people in the colonies / on the frontier did weave some of their own clothing, but a LOT of fabric was being imported as well. The perception that "everyone in the colonies wore handspun, all the time" is another costuming myth that I've been trying to combat. (All-or-nothing statements, you know...) And in the mid-Atlantic PA German areas, particularly, the pattern seems to have been that (some) women spun flax and wool at home (a fair percentage of houses didn't have spinning wheels at all), then sent the yarn off to a local (professional) weaver and/or dyer to be woven and/or dyed. A few books that deal with the subject are "Good Wives" and "The Age of Homespun" by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and "Cloth and Costume" by Tandy and Charles Hersh. Cheers, Mara http://knittingobsession.blogspot.com/ - knitting blog http://www.knittingobsession.com/patterns.htm - Modern knitting patterns http://www.marariley.net/ - 18th century costume notes and patterns --------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. - Voltaire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 09:20:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52DKItt026244 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:20:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52DJNS7073393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DJKMx098279; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:19:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DJI4E098260 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:19:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB2E40083 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id CD0B5393B; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:19:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCnwdQAAwhcwEAAAAB,6537fd1198c3b1a4f1521999931983a2 Message-Id: <20050602131912.CD0B5393B@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wouldn't want to carry a critter around with me, but a half dozen cats beats an electric blanket any cold night!! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 12:38:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) The closest I have heard to that is that small dogs, besides being amusing, were warmer than people-body-temperature. And Eskimos do sleep next to dogs on cold nights (or is it the dogs choosing to sleep next to the people?). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 09:26:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52DQdBn026306 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:26:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52DPkLl074041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:25:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DPjgr001812; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:25:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DPhjY001779 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57124403AE for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 360073955; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.74] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCnwjWAAI2rAEAAAAB,0d154136c8e56337bba5df5933d97c47 Message-Id: <20050602132542.360073955@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the whole, nutrition has a lot to do with how tall people grow (after their genes are considered). QE 1 was very proud of her height and Mary Queen of Scots was almost six feet tall. Of course, they ate better than than the average too. However, they did not have nutritionists telling them what to eat and changing their minds every year either. They ate what was available and for the rich, their diet was pretty high in meat and bread and root crops that could be stored. Fresh vegies and fruit were pretty seasonal. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Adele de Maisieres wrote: From: Adele de Maisieres Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:44:37 +1200 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Julie wrote: >People were smaller then. Just look at all the small uniforms that have been recovered, small armor, etc. (what about some of the 6 foot plus skeletons, etc...Abe Lincoln) So were they mostly smaller? Sure seems to be so in current times. Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it diet? Is it genes? > > It depends what you mean. It's probably safest to say that the heights of _lower_class people have increased a good deal, but those of upper class people by much less. A friend of mine is interested in 19th century militaria and says that many of the jackets he's found have been too small for him-- and he's only 5'7" and slim. Heights are determined by a combination of genetics and diet. And a single example doesn't prove anything about averages-- Lincoln was considered a tall man while he was alive. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 09:33:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52DXRri026376 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:33:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52DWiH3074916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:32:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DWhN5005708; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DWeWu005678 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:32:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 0F3E7B5E1; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:32:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.126.214.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.126.214]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1D8BCB6ED for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:32:43 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00ed01c56777$bc50fac0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] metallic lace Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:33:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's a portrait by Corneille de Lyon from 1530-40 of a woman with what I can only assume is some sort of metallic lace at the neckline: http://www.wga.hu/html/c/corneill/p_woman.html (If anyone can think of something _other_ than metallic lace that this could be, I'd like very much to know!) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 09:35:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52DZJMR026386 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:35:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52DYfYj075129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:34:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DYfmp006905; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:34:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DYbnE006868 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:34:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 5E762203B7; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:34:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.126.214.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.126.214]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C8B52037E for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:34:40 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00f501c56778$02a659c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net><429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net> <200506012120.12320.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:35:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not Dawn, but if you'll give me an hour or two I can post several pictures of advertisements of bras & extant garments from the 1890s-1910s. -E House ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" > Really? I don't know of any evidence for a support garment remotely like > the > brassiere before the late 19-teens--early 1920s. What source do you have > in > mind? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 09:50:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52DoHss026556 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:50:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52DnL7K076626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:49:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DnK5E014880; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:49:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DnHQ3014859 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:49:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id F1A8B20667; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:49:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.126.214.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.126.214]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 037222063F for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:49:19 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <013f01c5677a$0ec2ddd0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <011101c56731$67e77e50$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] shot silk (was: Satin question) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:50:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This discussion reminds me of something I've been trying to track down the last few days. Exactly when did shot silk (or shot wool, for that matter) fall out of fashion between the 15th & 16th centuries? Fabric shot with both gold and other colors shows up in manuscripts well into the 16thC, but not in any portraits I can call to mind. It seems reasonable to assume that the shot effect seen in the manuscripts is intended for artistic purposes only (in other words, as an opportunity to lay on the gilt and make it look richer). -E House (has her eye on a lovely shot silk taffeta she'd like to buy for a c1515 gown, but would settle for 1490s...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:08:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52E7xDY026738 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:08:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52E7Fb0078561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:07:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52E7El4025829; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:07:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52E7BKF025766 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:07:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.117 ([204.127.197.117]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050602140706015009e87fe>; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:07:06 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.117; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:07:04 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: spiders..Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:07:04 +0000 Message-Id: <060220051407.2220.429F128800053ACA000008AC22007340760809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I agree! But as a girl, I ended up getting bitten by a spider 5 summers in a row, so they are not allowed in close proximity. If they stay where they belong, they can merrily spin whatever webs they like... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > "If you wish to live and thrive, > Let the spider run alive." > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net 02/06/2005 02:47 >>> > Hmmm, I've got to share this: Back in my younger days...say around 1978, I was > sitting in church and the lady in the seat in front of me had an elaborately > teased and hairsprayed like a rock up do. Lo and behond I saw a spider, > leisurely wandering through the stiffened mass of hair. I gingerly took my > crochet hook, enticed it out of the little nest and promptly stomped on it. > > She gave me the dirtiest look and didn't believe me when I explained what had > happened. But I promise you it was true! I do not like spiders anywhere in my > immediate vicinty, and thus the intruder had to go, even though it was on > someone else's head! > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? > > > > What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived > > there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could > > have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early > > 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the owners > > head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later heard the same > > story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s (weevils going after the > > powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old myth. > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:10:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52EAZFc026760 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:10:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52E9new078747 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:09:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52E9nPZ027426; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:09:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52E7Lsa025853 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:07:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (unknown[204.127.197.128](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050602140716013004o3qfe>; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:07:16 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.111; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:06:54 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: spiders..Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:06:54 +0000 Message-Id: <060220051406.25681.429F127E0000B7ED0000645122070009530809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I agree! But as a girl, I ended up getting bitten by a spider 5 summers in a row, so they are not allowed in close proximity. If they stay where they belong, they can merrily spin whatever webs they like... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > "If you wish to live and thrive, > Let the spider run alive." > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net 02/06/2005 02:47 >>> > Hmmm, I've got to share this: Back in my younger days...say around 1978, I was > sitting in church and the lady in the seat in front of me had an elaborately > teased and hairsprayed like a rock up do. Lo and behond I saw a spider, > leisurely wandering through the stiffened mass of hair. I gingerly took my > crochet hook, enticed it out of the little nest and promptly stomped on it. > > She gave me the dirtiest look and didn't believe me when I explained what had > happened. But I promise you it was true! I do not like spiders anywhere in my > immediate vicinty, and thus the intruder had to go, even though it was on > someone else's head! > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? > > > > What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived > > there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could > > have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early > > 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the owners > > head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later heard the same > > story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s (weevils going after the > > powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old myth. > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:22:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52EMOuh026881 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:22:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52ELASI080389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:21:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52EL73F035469; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:21:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52EL0S1035320 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:21:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail28.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.168]) by smtpout06.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK8FPSATHZ2NA for (sender ); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:20:32 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7yFKX6FbYEBYUjIQERM48ZGpDHVsncouYQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail28.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUHDTYZ3; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:20:05 PDT Received: from [24.14.7.158] by webmail28.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:19:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.7.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:19:56 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] shot silk (was: Satin question) X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050602.072005.8685.247293@webmail28.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:1726882927 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.168|webmail28.nyc.untd.com|outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure if this qualifies as 'shot' but there are numerous references in Queen E's Unl of various colors of cloth of gold and silver. I can think of 'Tawney cloth of gold'and 'purple cloth of gold' as two specifically, but there are pages of references to what I have always thought of as cloth with a metallic thread on one direction (weft?) and colored silk in the other direction (warp?) giving a changeable look depending on how you saw the fabric. I'm away from my books right now, but anyone with a Queen E's handy can look up the various descriptions of the fabrics. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:30:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52EUXen026975 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:30:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52ETfT2081296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:29:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52ETeIk041002; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:29:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52ETbIF040910 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:29:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK8F7DAXV88HA for (sender ); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:28:51 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgrotzLdhKW6cSao+6l5/hDk= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUHEBT6H; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:28:44 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:13:07 -0700 Message-ID: <20050602.072825.2820.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-20 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 6:3:3951804488 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: cley@juno.com Subject: [h-cost] busk points X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's that lyric I was trying to remember, thanks to a madrigalist pal o' mine. Arlys > Thomas Weelkes' "Lord, When I Think". The lyrics are below, and it's > in the first verse: > > Lord, when I think what a paltery thing > is a glove or a ring or a top of a fan to brag of, > and how much a Noddy will triumph in a busk point, > snatch with the tag off, then I say > Well fare him that hath ever used close play. > > And when I see what a pitiful grace > hath a frown in the face > or a no in the lips of a Lady, > and when I had wist she would be kiss'd > when she away did go with hey ho > I end so, Never trust any woman more than you know. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:31:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52EVPuC026986 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:31:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52EUX6g081395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:30:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52EUWXE041599; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:30:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52ES8pD039962 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:28:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050602142803015009eh41e>; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:28:03 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.119; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:28:02 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shot silk (was: Satin question) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:28:02 +0000 Message-Id: <060220051428.26800.429F177200055199000068B022007614380809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that there are sources for similar fabrics in Italian city states as well...I'll have to find my books...they are still in boxes.. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > I'm not sure if this qualifies as 'shot' but there are numerous references in > Queen E's Unl of various colors of cloth of gold and silver. I can think of > 'Tawney cloth of gold'and 'purple cloth of gold' as two specifically, but there > are pages of references to what I have always thought of as cloth with a > metallic thread on one direction (weft?) and colored silk in the other direction > (warp?) giving a changeable look depending on how you saw the fabric. I'm away > from my books right now, but anyone with a Queen E's handy can look up the > various descriptions of the fabrics. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:45:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52EjPI1027106 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:45:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52Eih3D082958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:44:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52EifUW051815; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:44:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52Eiabe051655 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:44:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 60847 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2005 14:44:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2005 14:44:29 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050602154110.016037d8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:42:20 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] shot silk (was: Satin question) In-Reply-To: <20050602.072005.8685.247293@webmail28.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:19 02/06/2005 +0000, you wrote: >I'm not sure if this qualifies as 'shot' but there are numerous references >in Queen E's Unl of various colors of cloth of gold and silver. I can >think of 'Tawney cloth of gold'and 'purple cloth of gold' as two >specifically, but there are pages of references to what I have always >thought of as cloth with a metallic thread on one direction (weft?) and >colored silk in the other direction (warp?) giving a changeable look >depending on how you saw the fabric. I'm away from my books right now, but >anyone with a Queen E's handy can look up the various descriptions of the >fabrics. Shot silk is also called "changeable" - as in Shakespeare. Can't remember the full quote but he talks of making a doublet of changeable taffeta (which would have been silk.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:51:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52Ep00N027154 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:51:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52EnsZm083399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:49:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52EnmC7055214; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:49:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f3.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.53]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52EnSC0054824 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:49:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:49:23 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.213 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:49:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.213] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200506020856.j528tujn086958@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:49:23 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 14:49:23.0416 (UTC) FILETIME=[43FF9580:01C56782] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Stephanie Smith >Why do you think this? Certainly there have been >points in history in which military "style" has >influenced civilian style (eg: late 1990's, when camos >were cool, Regency/Napoleonic times, when ladies wore >Scarlet outfits with gold frogging-- or is that >another urban legend I believe in? *g*)... why would >influence due to function be so very different? >... Simply as an example of military wear influencing style (there are many others): The introduction of the raised stacked heel in Europe for men's shoes around 1600 seems to have been brought in with the fashion of emulating the Turkish riding boot. Women's shoes traditionally have a carved solid core heel with a heel cover, probably ultimately derived from the patten. Then of course, there are modern cargo pants -- those pockets were originally put there so soldiers could store more "stuff", like grenades and amunition, in easy to reach places... At least that's what *I* used them for :) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 10:54:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52EsOGO027176 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:54:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52ErUWA083906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:53:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52ErUu3058042; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:53:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52ErQAn057943 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1e4.3cc76032 (4468) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:53:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <1e4.3cc76032.2fd0775a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:53:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths, dogs and petticoats (just for fun...) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5037 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/2/2005 7:22:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time, lalahcatlady@netscape.com writes: I wouldn't want to carry a critter around with me, but a half dozen cats beats an electric blanket any cold night!! Apparently, Mary Queen of Scots brought her little dog along with her to her execution hidden under her petticoat. No one knew it was there until her head was removed, upon which the dog became extremely distressed and began wailing. This is not an urban legend, I believe, as I came across it in a history of the Tudor family by a reputable historian. But who knows? Cheryl Odom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 12:15:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52GF0LM027806 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52GE0Mr092249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52GDvZx022925; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:13:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52GDrxx022883 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:13:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.28]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DdsKP-0001Qx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:13:53 -0400 Message-ID: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:13:53 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Stephanie Smith >Why do you think this? Certainly there have been >points in history in which military "style" has >influenced civilian style (eg: late 1990's, when camos >were cool, Regency/Napoleonic times, when ladies wore >Scarlet outfits with gold frogging-- or is that >another urban legend I believe in? *g*)... why would >influence due to function be so very different? >... Certainly military style has influenced civilian styles in many times and places. But a good many costume practices are demonstrably awkward, inconvenient and impractical, and people still do them because they're "fashionable." So explanations of clothing bits that claim a specific practical reason (such as interfering with drawing a sword) are always worth looking at twice before assuming they're true (starting with asking whether the clothing innovation and the supposed practical reason are from the same time period...). And of course, some _are_ true. :) As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after built-in pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one major advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect the "hang" of the garment as much. Putting something heavy or large in a built-in pocket can create a visible bulge, if one cares about such things. With a hanging pocket, if the garments aren't closely fitted you can practically carry a partridge in a pear tree without it showing nearly as much :) My Elizabethan farthingale has pockets built into it that hang *inside* the hoops, for that reason, and they hold my checkbook and wallet, handkerchiefs, spectacles, pens, etc. etc. (not that I can document farthingale pockets, but they're certainly practical). ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 12:18:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52GIaeZ027857 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:18:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52GHc7t092643 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:17:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52GHcfs026020; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:17:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53204.mail.yahoo.com (web53204.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.220]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52GHZIW025925 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:17:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gythaofnorthumbria@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 20799 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jun 2005 16:17:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=As6eqHcIR5+Ypl6dfGfdCk7WvXL5+ZTcUvqvW17+HDBCkBIJEgVgEaEmefZHm96E5gyUTnlwD8JSwqOPyG3PKVecZnU7rV74946NPgRZcoAeqYWNXRlsR7nXZceF+40JuRUkU7TKuboIZbcvwKnGTW88KvrKOmFQHQ4t11jEj5g= ; Message-ID: <20050602161730.20797.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.118.107.12] by web53204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:17:30 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:17:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Gytha Stonegrinder Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200506012309.44166.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am traveling right now without that book... I will check it when I return in mid-June... I read the entire book and my impression was that there are actually pockets and not just slits, but I could be wrong. Gytha Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:On Wednesday 01 June 2005 6:46 pm, Gytha Stonegrinder wrote: [snip] > I can say that in the book "Woven into the Earth" > there are pictures of actual 12-13th century gowns with side pockets... > some in the gore seam and some in the side seam. [rest snipped] Where? I have "Woven Into the Earth" and I don't see anything that demonstrates the existence of modern, integral-to-the-garment pockets. The discussion on p. 94 does refer to "pocket slits", but that could refer to slits made so that pouches or pockets on a string (such as the 18th c ones) worn underneath could be easily reached. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 13:25:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52HPxNa028497 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:25:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52HOrV0001182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HOoQR081206; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:24:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HOkKp081149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:24:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DdtQq-00011u-JA; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:24:36 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:24:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20050602122436.qk9jdz3w71fk0ssg@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:24:36 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets References: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Chris Laning : > As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after > built-in pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one > major advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect > the "hang" of the garment as much. Putting something heavy or large > in a built-in pocket can create a visible bulge, if one cares about > such things. With a hanging pocket, if the garments aren't closely > fitted you can practically carry a partridge in a pear tree without > it showing nearly as much :) My Elizabethan farthingale has pockets > built into it that hang *inside* the hoops, for that reason, and they > hold my checkbook and wallet, handkerchiefs, spectacles, pens, etc. > etc. (not that I can document farthingale pockets, but they're > certainly practical). OOh, tell me more! This sounds like a much better solution in some ways than a belt pouch! Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 13:30:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52HU2H0028538 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:30:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52HTIjV001827 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:29:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HTHY2085190; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HTDhP085124 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:29:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52HTHNs008165 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:29:18 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52HT7KF317764 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:29:12 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050602101507.024ea788@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:16:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >When male and female button direction was discussed on this list several >years ago, I quoted the assertion from a boys' book of my father's, circa >1917, that men's coats buttoned left over right so the sword would not >catch in the opening. It was agreed that this doesn't make sense - when >you draw a sword, you don't pull it across your front. I thought a "cross-draw" did exactly that. This is also why, I heard, the woman walks on the man's right, so he can draw his sword and not clip her with the point. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 13:44:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52Hi4nr028686 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:44:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52HhHaT003411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HhGKI096588; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vienna (pool-70-22-244-164.bos.east.verizon.net [70.22.244.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HhD4e096486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:43:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cedar@interlog.com) Received: from cedar by vienna with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Ddtim-0004jJ-6g for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:43:08 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:43:08 -0400 From: Christine Robb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets Message-ID: <20050602174308.GW10088@vienna> Mail-Followup-To: Christine Robb , Historical Costume References: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 09:13:53AM -0700, Chris Laning wrote: > As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after > built-in pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one > major advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect > the "hang" of the garment as much. Would a hanging pocket be harder to pick, and/or more noticeable to the wearer? Christine --- A Weekend with Joseph Pimentel Toronto English Country Dancers http://www.interlog.com/~cedar _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 13:44:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52HiUlk028694 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:44:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52HgcRX003334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:42:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HgbQd096055; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms046pub.verizon.net (vms046pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HgWbC095990 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from vms076.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.1]) by vms046.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IHG00EIGX6WKNS0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:42:32 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:42:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets To: Historical Costume Message-id: <21146782.1117734152535.JavaMail.root@vms076.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, You do pull a sword across your "front" when drawing. They are commonly worn by a right hander on the left hip. I still doubt that this is really the reason though. You pull it across your frontage, BUT not across your actual front. (i.e. It is not drug across the chest itself). It seels very unlikely that reversed buttoning would affect the draw at all. It definetly would not affect the draw more than baldrics and other equipment often worn alongside swords. Personally the only clothes I recall ever having a sword tangle with has been paned trunkhose! Where a women walks in relation to a man varies with location and time, and occasionally social status. For instance today she should be away from the street, which may or may not be the right side. Again, a womens presence on my right or left would not affect my sword draw with any of my different period rigs. Cheers, Ron Carnegie >I thought a "cross-draw" did exactly that. This is also why, I heard, the >woman walks on the man's right, so he can draw his sword and not clip her >with the point. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 13:48:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52Hmmxp028720 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52Hm7Vn004017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:48:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Hm5gp000812; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:48:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81610.mail.yahoo.com (web81610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52Hm3Eo000706 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:48:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from valkyerie@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20050602174757.85684.qmail@web81610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [199.217.251.186] by web81610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:47:57 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:47:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Rachel Hillen To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Brocade loops X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have some chinese brocade fabric and the pattern I am using calls for very thin loops for buttons. However the brocade shreds every time I try to turn out the loop. Is there a better way to turn it? Or perhaps a better way to sew the loop that doesn't involve turning it out? "Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair or f*ckin' beatings. The world ends when your dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man and give some back" -Al Swearengen, Deadwood _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 13:54:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52HsXNi028761 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:54:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52HrptE004563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:53:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HrlAG005187; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:53:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52Hrgin005072 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:53:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 24900 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2005 17:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2005 17:53:36 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050602184750.01601c28@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:51:22 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-Reply-To: <20050602174308.GW10088@vienna> References: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:43 02/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 09:13:53AM -0700, Chris Laning wrote: > > As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after > > built-in pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one > > major advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect > > the "hang" of the garment as much. > >Would a hanging pocket be harder to pick, and/or more noticeable to >the wearer? I defy anyone to pick my pocket when tucked into my pocket hoops, covered by my cotton petticoat (yes, I know) and my fancy petticoat, and my dress! You are more likely to lose it because the tie breaks or becomes loose. "Lucy Locket had a pocket Kitty Fisher found it Not a penny was there in it But a ribbon round it" Scurrilous verse about a lady of pleasure, mid 18th century. There is a ?Gainsborough painting of Kitty Fisher, who I believe was an actress. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 14:00:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52I0hCo028815 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:00:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52HxsI5005248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HxoPB009964; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52Hx5pm009422 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-12963); Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:49:20 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:49:19 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050602103752.00de3300@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:49:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-Reply-To: <20050602122436.qk9jdz3w71fk0ssg@www.goldsword.com> References: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like to use pockets in my underskirt for the same reason (YMMV). I've found that a vertically-placed pocket opening is most practical (a horizontal pocket tends to gape open, risking loss of contents, even under my skirt). Basically, I've not seen any good evidence that noble women (which is what I portray at our faire) regularly wore any sort of pouch. Plus a pouch leaves you open to pickpockets (or cutpurses). And I have two fairly capacious pockets into which I can put whatever I need to keep on me but is not "period". Joan Jurancich aka Mistress Blanche Parry, Chief Gentlewoman of the Queen's Bedchamber At 12:24 PM 6/2/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Quoting Chris Laning : > > >>As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after built-in >>pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one major >>advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect the "hang" >>of the garment as much. Putting something heavy or large in a built-in >>pocket can create a visible bulge, if one cares about such things. With a >>hanging pocket, if the garments aren't closely fitted you can practically >>carry a partridge in a pear tree without it showing nearly as much :) My >>Elizabethan farthingale has pockets built into it that hang *inside* the >>hoops, for that reason, and they hold my checkbook and wallet, >>handkerchiefs, spectacles, pens, etc. etc. (not that I can document >>farthingale pockets, but they're certainly practical). > >OOh, tell me more! This sounds like a much better solution in >some ways than a belt pouch! > >Jerusha >----- >Susan Farmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 14:01:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52I0xlb028820 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:00:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52I04OH005288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:00:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Hxwg2010102; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:59:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail14.mdx.safepages.com (mail14.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52HxoRX009958 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:59:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id CB9501ECC90; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:59:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.4.4.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.4.4]) by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9342F1ECCFF for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:59:47 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01f301c5679d$0b7a0680$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net><429E1067.4090202@reddawn.net><200506012120.12320.cathy@thyrsus.com> <00f501c56778$02a659c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] first bras (was: Costuming myths) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:01:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j52I0xlb028820 Status: RO Well, here's one I hadn't noticed before (click to enlarge): http://haabet.dk/patent/43321/index.html I think _this_ would have to be the first bra, from 1864 (unless you count that regency thingy, or the 18thC really-high-waisted bust corsets). Can we CRINGE? Actually, I've seen mention of one from 1863, patented by Luman L. Chapman, but have yet to find a picture. Many 1880s-1890s 'health corsets' were basically bras with unboned (though not unstiffened) waists attached: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/c1882-2.gif Marie Tucek's 1893 bust supporter is commonly called the first bra: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/1893braMTucek494397.gif Most of the earliest separate bust support originated from a desire for a more attractive figure, leading to the 'bust perfector' patented 1899: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/kabobust.jpg (From the propaganda: "It is an efficient bust support, and will be hailed with delight by the athletic woman who wants the waist entirely free." This one, from 1909, shows the evolution of the bust form into the brassiere: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/us000933265-001.gif As does this, from 1914 (click to enlarge): http://haabet.dk/patent/1231011/index.html Here are a couple of those bust forms, both c1910: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/corset1.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/vec289.jpg http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/vec289a.jpg (And for fun: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/ebay30373.jpg ) But for a completely modern-looking, can't-deny-it's-a-bra bra, here's an ad from c1904-05: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/oct4braad.jpg Here's the patent for the famous 1914 Mary Phelps bra, which is a lot less bra-like than several earlier inventions: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/mary_phelps_jacob_bra-v.jpg Incidentally, a company (Charles R. DeBevoise Company) first labelled a bust support garment 'brassiere' in 1904. Vogue first used the word brassiere for a bust support garment in 1907, and it first appeared in the OED in 1912. This means that Mary Phelps, contrary to her claims, did not coin the term in 1913-14. -E House, recovering corset nut _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 14:14:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52IE1M1028916 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:14:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52IDGC9006910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:13:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52IDFvG020696; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52IDBXx020636 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:13:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FB843BE82 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:13:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F604C656 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:13:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: spiders..Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:13:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <060220051407.2220.429F128800053ACA000008AC22007340760809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I had been given the name Spider Woman or Starspider by an elder because of my unique ability to attract spiders especially but not exclusively when out doors. Five minutes after I have my tent up there will be at least one spider with their web up inside it. De -----Original Message----- Oh, I agree! But as a girl, I ended up getting bitten by a spider 5 summers in a row, so they are not allowed in close proximity. If they stay where they belong, they can merrily spin whatever webs they like... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 14:44:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52IiWcF029216 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:44:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52IhYCc010405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:43:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52IhT7w046223; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52IhLQL046128 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:43:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be44.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.68]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 44F7E47FE26 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:43:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003d01c567a2$ef49a0f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050602045059.49887.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:43:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Melody, In 17th and 18th century there was a big industry of gloves in a city in Denmark called Randers. They were quite famous because they also had smell in them. They were perfumed. I have often wished, that i could smell those perfumed gloves, but alas only my imagination will perhaps get a glimse of the real scent. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melody Watts" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:50 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) > My personal experience,: I still have a pair of kid > gloves I first acquired at about age of 6 or 8. These > were my "church" gloves. I took those poor crumpled > gloves out the other day, worked them in my hands, > softening the skin,warming them, and "worked" my now > adult hands into them. only a slight "strain' showed > at the thumb seam line. > So ,when they say the ladies "worked" their hands > into the gloves for some times before going out,it is > true. > The reason why the gloves are cut so small,_I_ think > is the fact that they do indeed stretch out quite a > bit after warming and wearing them...if they were cut > large to begin with you'd have probably lost them off > your hands. We don't have the patience to smooth, > stretch,smooth ,stretch our selves into those gloves. > They do look lovely when finally on, and fit like > surgical gloves(commercial mode: "so flexible you can > pick up a dime") > I have a modern pair I bought from a lady "4 in hand" > coach driver, kid skin,bitty, and smeling wonderful. > Her instructions were the same, "warm ,stretch, ,put > on, warm,stretch,warm, tug a bit, repeat" > And a note: my adult hands resemble "donald Duck's > feet,palm is almost perfectly square-about 3"x3" with > longish fingers, ...not dainty by far...the gloves are > about 2" across. > > --- Sandra Olsen wrote: > >> Small hands may indeed be prized, but stuffing ones >> hands into >> child-sized gloves seems a little extreme in pursuit >> of fashion, rather >> like tightlacing. Surely married, settled women >> might give in and admit >> their real size instead of blowing the seams out of >> every pair. >> >> I have very long thin hands and I'm used to fingers >> on gloves being too >> short, but surely I can't be so much of an ogre that >> not even the tips >> of my fingers will fit! >> >> Maybe there's an expert out there who has yet to >> weigh in? >> >> >> > >> > That said, I wonder why I can't ever find >> Victorian-era gloves that >> > aren't ridiculously tiny. Was diet so bad even >> among the kid-glove >> > wearing crowd? >> > >> >> I think that I've read (in that famous 'somewhere') >> that small hands >> were prized so a woman would wear gloves that were >> as small as >> possible -- even if it made her hands look like >> stuffed sausages >> because they were so tight. >> >> Onaree >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 15:17:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52JHtke029441 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:17:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52JGgNH013979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:16:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52JGHEd072988; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52JFpeT072634 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be44.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.68]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6803F47FEDD for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:15:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <007701c567a7$84214760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:16:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Cynthia, I think this is the case. I could also imagine that if you did not wash your hair for about 14 days, ( i have never tryed this :-)) it would get quite oily, and if you had some long curls, it would grease your clothes on the shoulders. The powder would eat all that grease, and kind of protect your clothes, the powder could just be brushed away with a cloth brush. I think there is a quotation in Norah Waughs the cut of womens clothes, about this with the tall hairdresses, that it was taken down again after 3 weeks, i must try and find this and post it later. There also was some that invented fleece traps to lye into the tall hairdos, but they didnt work..... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys > So what do y'all figure the powder in the hair was for? To keep it from > looking oily? > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, > I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, > Get me a steam drill too!" > -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 15:58:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52JwjDX029787 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:58:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52JvsS2019071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52JvpvU007050; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:57:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52JvkUb006960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:57:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-124.sonic.net [209.148.114.124]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Jvi7Z016700 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:57:45 -0700 Message-ID: <429F64BB.1050506@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:57:47 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dye Colors X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I ran the "rust brown" job, which came out rust orange with 3 cups of salt in a 15-gallon washer, with the full amount of salt, no other changes to the materials or process. It came out one shade darker, and still dark reddish orange rather than reddish brown as on the dye chart. As for dye jobs not looking like the chart, though--I recently got a number of printed charts for Procion MX dyes. One is the manufacturer's chart, the others are from various vendors displaying the dyes they sell. For most colors, ones that are supposed to be the same color according to the labels, there is significant difference among all the printed charts. So who the heck knows, I suppose every dye job is a surprise and if you don't like it you dye over it. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 17:42:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52LgnT8030507 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52LflTA031731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Lfgga091309; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:41:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LfbmK091246 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:41:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP0Q7Y39OG95OE50@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:41:35 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP0Q7Y6QTC94GRSW@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:41:35 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:42:53 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-reply-to: <200506020728.37682.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429F7D5D.5060206@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200506020728.37682.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Thursday 02 June 2005 2:54 am, Stephanie Smith wrote: >[snip] > > >>Adele wrote: >>I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a >>picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into >>the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on >>separate bands didn't stay popular for at least >>another 300 years. >> >> > >I grabbed for my copy when I read that. Actually, Arnold describes two pair >of upper hose with pockets, both dated to the late 1610s. > > > I stand (slightly) corrected :) -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 17:43:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52Lh4QH030510 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:43:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52LgEuV031771 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LgDBZ091714; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Lg9TJ091658 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP0Q8MK8B494H1I0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:42:08 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP0Q8MBEWA94H8R5@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:42:07 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:43:25 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys In-reply-to: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429F7D7D.3020108@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > So what do y'all figure the powder in the hair was for? To keep it > from looking oily? > I don't think it was "for" anything, except the look. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 17:43:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52LhVT3030518 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52LgiYR031839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Lggd8092082; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LgcYR092026 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.24]) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DdxSX-0001SK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:42:37 -0400 Message-ID: <4647231.1117748557818.JavaMail.root@wamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:42:37 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: >> My Elizabethan farthingale has pockets >> built into it that hang *inside* the hoops, for that reason, and they >> hold my checkbook and wallet, handkerchiefs, spectacles, pens, etc. >> etc. (not that I can document farthingale pockets, but they're >> certainly practical). > >OOh, tell me more! This sounds like a much better solution in >some ways than a belt pouch! As best I can describe it without waving my hands around in the air: I constructed my farthingale as a gored petticoat with two hoops: one near the bottom hem (maybe 6 or 8 inches off the ground), the other about a foot higher. The waistand is in two separate pieces, front and back, meeting (and fastening) at both side seams. The side seams of the farthingale are left open all the way down to fingertip level. Each pocket is made from two rectangular pieces about 12 inches tall and maybe 8 inches wide (I don't have it to look at right now, because it's with my seamstress, serving as a pattern for a new version). The front of the pocket is actually divided into two tall skinny pieces joined by a vertical seam. The bottom six inches or so of that seam is sewed shut. The rest is left open and the edges finished. The front and back of the pocket are then seamed together on three sides, with the top left open (and hemmed of course). It actually looks a lot like an 18th-century rectangular hanging pocket, except that it's open at the top as well as partway down the front. The pocket is attached to the farthingale by sewing one side of the open front seam of the pocket to the corresponding side of the open side seam of the farthingale, near the bottom. Then the other side of the front seam of the pocket is sewed to the other side of the opening. |----------| < - - - top of pocket |\ /| | \ / | | \ / | < - - - - "V" of pocket opening edges sewed to farthingale opening edges | \ / | | \ / | | \/ | < - - - - bottom of pocket opening | : | = bottom of open side seam of farthingale | : | | : | | : | < - - - - hidden part of pocket hanging down | : | inside farthingale ------------ The whole thing is finished off with a ribbon tie at each top corner of the pocket. When I put the farthingale on, the open side seam lets me put the whole thing on easily. Then I load up the pockets and tie the ribbon ties at the pocket top together. On the outside of the farthingale, it's easy to reach into the pocket through the vertical open slit, but because the slit is tied shut at the top, things don't fall out. Hope this is clear enough -- I've been trying to write this with about six people talking in my ear :) As I say, I have no documentation for this sort of thing, but from a practical standpoint it's worked VERY well for me. Renaissance Faire is the sort of event where you pretty much have to keep your valuables ON your person, since there's seldom a secure place to leave them, and this lets me carry my wallet, checkbook, et cetera instead of having to put them in a basket where I'd have to watch them constantly. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 17:45:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52LjboB030539 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:45:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52LirAB032082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:44:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LinZJ093670; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:44:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LgQeW091813 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.78.744f3910 (3310) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:42:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <78.744f3910.2fd0d739@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:42:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brocade loops To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, I am sorry you are going through this grief. I had the same problem with a gown that I made years ago and finally wound up using a cord out of a coordinating colour to make the loops with. Good luck, whatever you decide to do. :) ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 17:46:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52Lk0vM030543 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:46:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52LjOKR032121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LjMmv094113; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LhY2W092790 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:43:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP0QAD9LR494H1I0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:43:32 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP0QACWIU494H8R5@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:43:31 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:44:50 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <20050602132542.360073955@sitemail.everyone.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429F7DD2.1090907@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050602132542.360073955@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lalah wrote: >QE 1 was very proud of her height and Mary Queen of Scots was almost six feet tall. > Do you have a source for that information about Mary's height? I've heard that she was taller than Elizabeth, but that's about all. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 17:57:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52Lv5CJ030618 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:57:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52LtFie033740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:55:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52LtC1l001764; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Lt3GZ001627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:55:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DdxeP-0004gU-5v; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:54:53 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:54:53 -0500 Message-ID: <20050602165453.37r6go27wk6cgcs0@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:54:53 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets References: <4647231.1117748557818.JavaMail.root@wamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <4647231.1117748557818.JavaMail.root@wamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Chris Laning : > "Susan B. Farmer" wrote: >>> My Elizabethan farthingale has pockets >>> built into it that hang *inside* the hoops, for that reason, and they >>> hold my checkbook and wallet, handkerchiefs, spectacles, pens, etc. >>> etc. (not that I can document farthingale pockets, but they're >>> certainly practical). >> >> OOh, tell me more! This sounds like a much better solution in >> some ways than a belt pouch! > > As best I can describe it without waving my hands around in the air: > I constructed my farthingale as a gored petticoat with two hoops: one > near the bottom hem (maybe 6 or 8 inches off the ground), the other > about a foot higher. > Girl, (she said gesturing wildly with *both* hands) You mean you can't talk without waiing your hands? (both hands are now on hips) Who ever heard of such-a-thang! :-D I think I can figure it out. I'll let you know if I get confused. Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 19:06:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52N64Pc031058 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:06:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52N582r041126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:05:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52N521F050184; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52N4uZG050120 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP0T47ZTU894H1I0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:04:52 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP0T478U6A8Y8SPF@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:04:51 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:06:10 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050602101507.024ea788@mail.frys.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429F90E2.2040502@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <4.3.1.2.20050602101507.024ea788@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> When male and female button direction was discussed on this list >> several years ago, I quoted the assertion from a boys' book of my >> father's, circa 1917, that men's coats buttoned left over right so >> the sword would not catch in the opening. It was agreed that this >> doesn't make sense - when you draw a sword, you don't pull it across >> your front. > > > I thought a "cross-draw" did exactly that. This is also why, I heard, > the woman walks on the man's right, so he can draw his sword and not > clip her with the point. > Which still doesn't explain it, since (a) the vast majority of men never owned a sword and (b) the _consistent_ use of buttons came into being with late19th-20th-21st century ready-to-wear clothes-- some time after sword-carrying went out of vogue. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 19:06:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52N6sZI031065 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:06:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52N69HY041258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52N688H050820; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52N65Ln050784 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:06:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP0T5CXB4G8WXAS1@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:05:54 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP0T5C4RL08Y98F0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:05:46 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 11:07:05 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-reply-to: <20050602174308.GW10088@vienna> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429F9119.5040701@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050602174308.GW10088@vienna> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Christine Robb wrote: >On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 09:13:53AM -0700, Chris Laning wrote: > > >>As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after >>built-in pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one >>major advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect >>the "hang" of the garment as much. >> >> > >Would a hanging pocket be harder to pick, and/or more noticeable to >the wearer? > > > Hard to say, and I'm not sure whether pockets tended to be used as purses per se, or more as hold-alls. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 19:10:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52NAUps031092 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:10:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52N9muh041598 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:09:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52N9lm4053098; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52N9hmY052989 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:09:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j52N9cu18531 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:09:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:12:46 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Brocade loops Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20050602174757.85684.qmail@web81610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Here's a couple ideas.... fuse a feather weight interfacing and see if that helps prevent shredding, or Don't try to turn it out.... fold the fabric and sew from the outside fold lengthwise edges to center fold again lengthwise sew down the open side with small stitches Althea On Thursday, June 2, 2005, at 10:47 AM, Rachel Hillen wrote: > I have some chinese brocade fabric and the pattern I > am using calls for very thin loops for buttons. > However the brocade shreds every time I try to turn > out the loop. Is there a better way to turn it? Or > perhaps a better way to sew the loop that doesn't > involve turning it out? > > > "Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair or f*ckin' beatings. > The world ends when your dead. Until then, you got more punishment in > store. Stand it like a man and give some back" > > -Al Swearengen, Deadwood > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 19:21:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j52NLZ5J031144 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:21:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j52NKcCn042663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:20:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52NKYGo059555; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:20:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52NKT0e059438 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:20:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 11453 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2005 23:20:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2005 23:20:23 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050603001251.014de9f0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:18:23 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-Reply-To: <429F90E2.2040502@paradise.net.nz> References: <4.3.1.2.20050602101507.024ea788@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050602101507.024ea788@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:06 03/06/2005 +1200, you wrote: >Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> >>>When male and female button direction was discussed on this list several >>>years ago, I quoted the assertion from a boys' book of my father's, >>>circa 1917, that men's coats buttoned left over right so the sword would >>>not catch in the opening. It was agreed that this doesn't make sense - >>>when you draw a sword, you don't pull it across your front. >> >> >>I thought a "cross-draw" did exactly that. This is also why, I heard, >>the woman walks on the man's right, so he can draw his sword and not clip >>her with the point. >Which still doesn't explain it, since (a) the vast majority of men never >owned a sword and (b) the _consistent_ use of buttons came into being with >late19th-20th-21st century ready-to-wear clothes-- some time after >sword-carrying went out of vogue. I wonder whether it is just that the manufacturers of clothing determined which way they should go, as a way of differentiating ladies' clothes from men's when cutting by a machine, i.e. a band saw. Also, when I used to work in the theatre, it was easy to fasten ladies' clothes right over left, using some tension to fasten therefore pulling towards "my" right, whereas fastening men's clothes *from* my right to left did not need the same tension as a rule. I am not sure I have explained this quite how I meant! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 20:10:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j530AuWs031386 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:10:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5309gdD046900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:09:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5309blo085630; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:09:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5309WVK085547 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:09:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) Received: from [68.167.254.194] (helo=boris) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Ddzki-0002Mc-Ey for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:09:32 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=UR+S0NQWvYMNNBYJVlgpzAWCxqWuL3OYa/2Fr/XggjtmK4FXh1jOlCIaPrGBiprq; Message-ID: <03a901c567d0$a3e54fa0$0300a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050602101507.024ea788@mail.frys.com> <429F90E2.2040502@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:10:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd4832907a5912daefedcf24308af25c3851a7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.167.254.194 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Snip > Which still doesn't explain it, since (a) the vast majority of men never > owned a sword and (b) the _consistent_ use of buttons came into being with > late19th-20th-21st century ready-to-wear clothes-- some time after > sword-carrying went out of vogue. > > -- > Adele de Maisieres I find buttons used very consistantly on mens doublets and coats throughout the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries and most gentlemen of the nobility did use and wear swords until fairly late in the 18th century. Melusine (who has just finished putting 48 buttons and buttonholes on yet another early 17th century doublet.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 20:14:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j530ELN5031409 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:14:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j530DWMn047293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j530DV3S087723; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j530DTht087685 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:13:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-67-77-24-179.sta.sprint-hsd.net [67.77.24.179]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BDDB30129 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:13:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Brocade loops Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:13:06 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <000f01c567d1$09a8cb50$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j530DTht087685 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Are you cutting the strips on the bias? Fabric cut on the bias does not shred or fray as much as fabric cut on the straight grain. Another alternative is to cord the loops: - Cut and join the bias strips until you have one long bias piece. - Cut a piece of cord at least twice as long as the bias strip plus 6"-10". The cord should be slightly narrower than the desired finished width. - Fold the bias strip around the cord wrong side out. Leave a 6" tail of cord sticking out one end of the bias. - Using a zipper or cording foot (or do it by hand) and beginning at the end with the 6" tail, stitch close to the cord. As you approach the other end of the bias strip, flare the stitching out into the seam allowance. Then stitch across the flared end of the bias strip, securing it to the cord. - Trim seam allowance to 1/8" - Grasp the short tail sticking out of the open end of the bias with one hand. - With the opposite hand, gently work the bias strip down over the other end of the cord, turning the bias strip right side out as you go. Once you get it started it will turn quite easily. - You can either leave the cord in place, or snip the end where you sewed the bias strip to the cord and pull it out. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 On Thursday, June 2, 2005, at 10:47 AM, Rachel Hillen wrote: > I have some chinese brocade fabric and the pattern I > am using calls for very thin loops for buttons. > However the brocade shreds every time I try to turn > out the loop. Is there a better way to turn it? Or > perhaps a better way to sew the loop that doesn't > involve turning it out? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:17:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531HWOU031733 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531Gl67052200 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:16:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531GkUN019841; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:16:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52DmCMf014255 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977F04002D for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 1490A394B; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:48:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCnw4aAAZq7AEAAAAB,a3bef74581fa349d571d5ce20b9c8d2c Message-Id: <20050602134810.1490A394B@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Surely you all know that the poet Bobbie Burns wrote a whole poem about seeing a head louse on a lady in church. Remember the line "Ah would some power the Giftie gi us to see oursels as ithers see us" from said poem. (Please excuse the spelling errors). Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:55:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal with? What about the one claiming bugs got into tall hairstyles and lived there? (Not too far fetched, come to think of it, since the bugs could have been head lice.) I first heard this in the beehive-period early 1960s, along with the allegation that the bugs bored right into the owners head, unnoticed (which I didn't believe even then). I later heard the same story about those tall hairdos in the late 1700s (weevils going after the powder?), proving, at least, that it's an old myth. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/emreg Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:17:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531HZuP031742 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531GqOO052229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:16:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531GpA0019916; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:16:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (granite1.mail.cornell.edu [128.253.83.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52E1Fwm022064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:01:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j52E4ASZ000189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:04:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602095635.01a35f80@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:01:14 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart In-Reply-To: <20050530152854.AF83F726C@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Crannach and Heads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi fllks sorry for the late replys... I've been out to the beach and fell behind. Crannach - Interesting personality. Most of his 'religiously themed' paintings have to do with the juxtaposition of beauty and danger. There is an interesting exhibit right now at the Cornell Art Museum exploring this theme. And it features two of Crannach's most famous paintings "Judith" and "Lucretia". He was definately exploring the psyche of danger to others and to self - in opposition to the myth of female frailty. One of the reasons he is one of my favorite artists of the time. Mari / Bridgette Lahlah wrote: >What is with that artist and his thing for heads on platters? GROSS! >Costumes are neat though. >Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:17:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531HWED031734 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531GKCH052126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:16:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531GGsM019575; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52C3OEG062603 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.8]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:01:32 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:03:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcVm9Wi6FsowCiHBQFWBhOvI7pBhrAAdV0pA Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 12:01:32.0909 (UTC) FILETIME=[D18229D0:01C5676A] X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Will you be staff, or paying customer? If staff, bring along enough documentation to convince your wardrobe dept.; if customer, wear what you like! Betsy (been on both sides) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 2:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) <<<<"Only kings and queens could wear purple." (Demonstrably not true, but because it's a convention at many Renaissance Faires, a lot of people believe it.)>>>>>> Hmmmm. I've got this lovely simple patterned purple material...hmmmm. I be going in Sept to a RenFest....hmmmm. Do I want to disturb the bovine fecal matter? :) De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:17:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531Hkx8031745 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531H1Wn052293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:17:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531H0Fa020030; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:17:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f33.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52F7Vaq068305 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:07:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.213 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:07:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.213] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200506021333.j52DWh23005714@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:07:25 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 15:07:25.0768 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9216480:01C56784] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: on the influence of weapons use and pockets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Kate M Bunting" >When male and female button direction was discussed on this list several >years ago, I >quoted the assertion from a boys' book of my father's, circa 1917, that >men's coats >buttoned left over right so the sword would not catch in the opening. It >was agreed that >this doesn't make sense - when you draw a sword, you don't pull it across >your front. >Kate Bunting >Librarian and 17th century reenactor In no way to support the whole button issue, but doesn't this really depend on the type of sword and how it's hung? If the sword is hung on the left, to use it in your right hand, you are going to have to pull it across your front at some point. I suspect that with the buttons, men's clothes developed that way to facilite sticking the right hand under the coat or shirt, particularly when storing junk in your clothes (wallets, spectacles, car keys, knives, guns, nuclear explosive detonators, whatever). Women, I would suppose, have those separate pockets, reticules and later purses to stick their stuff in, and therefore are less restricted on which way their buttons face. >Adele wrote: >I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a >picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into >the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on >separate bands didn't stay popular for at least >another 300 years. >I reply: >Awesome! I have Renaissance-minded, pocket-loving >(addicted?) friends who will be thrilled when they >learn about this! (I, too, believed in the "fichets, >not pockets for pre-modern days" myth.) Out of >curiosity, why did the "old" method stick around for >so long? In Henry VIII's armory there is reputedly a revolver that is very similar to the Colt pattern in design and breech loading weapons designed for paper cartridges. Some things just are ahead of their time and so are so atypical that they probably shouldn't be used to represent the norm of a period. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:18:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531ISxm031752 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:18:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531HnEW052394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:17:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531HlSS020487; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:17:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52FXjck088821 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:33:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.28]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DdrhY-0003Hk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:33:44 -0400 Message-ID: <30740661.1117726424553.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:33:44 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's another one: "All monks go barefoot and wear rope tied around their waists." (Plain leather belts are actually the norm, as are shoes. Franciscans, and a few other obscure groups, are definitely the exceptions, though for some reason they have a much more prominent public image; they _do_ wear a cord rather than a belt and go barefoot or wear sandals. You could argue that technically they are friars rather than monks, however.) I also can't count how many "monks" or "friars" I've seen wearing habits that are too skimpy, too lightweight, ragged, or made out of cotton -- but those are a different problem. :) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:18:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531IaIh031755 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:18:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531Htxa052425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:17:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531HsnG020592; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:17:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f35.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52GDEi3022223 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauradi7@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:13:09 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.200 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:13:09 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.200] X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com] X-Sender: lauradi7@hotmail.com From: "Laura Dickerson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:13:09 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2005 16:13:09.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[F7BE7130:01C5678D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] powder in hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Emma Thompson did a journal about the filming of "Remains of the Day." One of the consultants for the film, coaching people in how to be butlers & footmen, said that the footmen at Buckingham Palace had still worn powdered hair until QE II took over and put a stop to it. They were using white flour at the time. Thompson's comment was "think of the hoovering!" Laura Dickerson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:18:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531Ii9I031758 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:18:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531I2bJ052498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:18:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531I0G4020699; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:18:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52GlZik051146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Ddsqs-0004c9-2W; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:47:26 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:47:26 -0500 Message-ID: <20050602114726.85vk07lq3vesk84c@www.goldsword.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:47:26 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths, dogs and petticoats (just for fun...) References: <1e4.3cc76032.2fd0775a@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1e4.3cc76032.2fd0775a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Cheryldee@aol.com: > In a message dated 6/2/2005 7:22:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > lalahcatlady@netscape.com writes: > I wouldn't want to carry a critter around with me, but a half dozen cats > beats an electric blanket any cold night!! And then there's this painting by Holbein of a woman with her pet squirrel -- notice the chain that she's holding ..... http://www.wga.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1528/6lady.jpg Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:23:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531NSKm031780 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531Mdxl053010 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531Mcl8023116; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52JOVpf079808 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:24:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be44.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.68]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A3E0E47FE9E for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:24:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008401c567a8$baca8b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <00ed01c56777$bc50fac0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] metallic lace Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:24:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/907/Thu Jun 2 06:50:12 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I totally agree with you, this must be a bobbin lace in goldthread. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] metallic lace > There's a portrait by Corneille de Lyon from 1530-40 of a woman with what > I can only assume is some sort of metallic lace at the neckline: > http://www.wga.hu/html/c/corneill/p_woman.html > (If anyone can think of something _other_ than metallic lace that this > could be, I'd like very much to know!) > > -E House > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:23:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531NYc0031785 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:23:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531Mspp053097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531MssX023347; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Ler2F090658 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP0Q6ZYBNK8WXJ51@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:40:49 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP0Q70A21Y94GRSW@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:40:49 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:42:08 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429F7D30.7070706@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: >Adele replied: >I think nearly anything that posits a relationship >between weapons use and ordinary clothes can be >dismissed. > >I comment: >Why do you think this? Certainly there have been >points in history in which military "style" has >influenced civilian style (eg: late 1990's, when camos >were cool, Regency/Napoleonic times, when ladies wore >Scarlet outfits with gold frogging-- or is that >another urban legend I believe in? *g*)... why would >influence due to function be so very different? > > In short, bucause the civilians making and wearing the clothes knew how swish military uniforms looked and wanted to copy the style, but knew very little about the functional aspect and had very little use for them. Sort of explains why camoflage trousers go in and out of style but helmets never really catch on :) -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:23:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531NfoO031783 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:23:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531MoTw053065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531MopR023275; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52LV30w082669 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:31:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK88U6A39X9Q2 for (sender ); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:30:04 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgpff6MG3ORsQ0CeEQheLlfQ= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUH6D7FF; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:29:27 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:25:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets Message-ID: <20050602.142848.2744.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-7,9-66 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 25:12:4039608692 X-MAIL-INFO: 40e5d57dd519456519452d21452ddc4d48688929695d680d914169250d2c6c150d55e909e53de5786d2db145e521 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This discussion shows exactly why I love sideless surcoats. Belt the undergown with your pouch on it, throw on the overdress, and no one will notice unless you're carrying around something particularly bulky. Did they do it? I have no idea. Mightn't it be rather hard to prove? Arlys On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:49:16 -0700 Joan Jurancich writes: > I like to use pockets in my underskirt for the same reason (YMMV). > I've > found that a vertically-placed pocket opening is most practical (a > horizontal pocket tends to gape open, risking loss of contents, even > under > my skirt). > > Basically, I've not seen any good evidence that noble women (which > is what > I portray at our faire) regularly wore any sort of pouch. Plus a > pouch > leaves you open to pickpockets (or cutpurses). And I have two > fairly > capacious pockets into which I can put whatever I need to keep on me > but is > not "period". > > Joan Jurancich > aka Mistress Blanche Parry, Chief Gentlewoman of the Queen's > Bedchamber > > At 12:24 PM 6/2/2005 -0500, you wrote: > >Quoting Chris Laning : > > > > > >>As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after > built-in > >>pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one major > >>advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect the > "hang" > >>of the garment as much. Putting something heavy or large in a > built-in > >>pocket can create a visible bulge, if one cares about such things. > With a > >>hanging pocket, if the garments aren't closely fitted you can > practically > >>carry a partridge in a pear tree without it showing nearly as much > :) My > >>Elizabethan farthingale has pockets built into it that hang > *inside* the > >>hoops, for that reason, and they hold my checkbook and wallet, > >>handkerchiefs, spectacles, pens, etc. etc. (not that I can > document > >>farthingale pockets, but they're certainly practical). > > > >OOh, tell me more! This sounds like a much better solution in > >some ways than a belt pouch! > > > >Jerusha > >----- > >Susan Farmer > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:23:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531NofZ031791 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:23:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531N6DQ053145 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:23:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531N6ai023491; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:23:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j52MBUEM013933 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:11:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 36587 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2005 22:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2005 22:11:23 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050602230657.014de8f8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:09:23 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <20050602132542.360073955@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Metal braid? might be "lace"? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some images on this page http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/w/weyden/rogier/02stluke/ which in some versions, notably the St. Petersburg one, look remarkably like metallic braid to me. In England, metallic braid for uniforms is still made by "lacemen" and is still called lace. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:23:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531NwwZ031790 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:23:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531N9Ua053174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531N9oh023518; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52MJ7ws019330 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:19:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050602221901.OBUN2946.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:19:01 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.200.185]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050602221900.FKDD7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:19:00 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [267.5.1]); Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:19:02 +1200 Message-ID: <006701c567c1$14d50120$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> <429F7D7D.3020108@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:19:01 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > So what do y'all figure the powder in the hair was for? To keep it > > from looking oily? > > > I don't think it was "for" anything, except the look. Depending on what the powder was, and considering this was the 17thC (1662 you see natural hair colours in wigs and hair styles, I haven't seen powdered, has anyone else?) it could be for oilyness. I have a few annuals from the start of the 20thC that advocate using orris root powder as a dry hair bath. As far as I know that is an old practice and may well have been in practice in the 17thC. I used powder to damp down the effects of oily hair as a teen. I was washing my hair every 2nd day as it was. Don't have that issue now funnily enough;) I think I have the article online still... it's on tripod so beware the pop ups. http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/hair.htm bottom right link "how to keep the hair pretty" I thought people might like to see the hair styles as well;) "If the hair is still oily and lies flat on the head, sprinkle a little powdered orris-root on the hair, then brush it out thoroughly. This will make the hair soft and fluffy, will polish and gloss it, and the odour from the orris-root is delightfully refreshing and pleasant." michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 2/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:24:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531OC1R031797 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531NHcn053216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:23:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531NGvV023621; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:23:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail2.fone.net (smtp.fone.net [206.168.68.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j530GFUe089114 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:16:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylrog@fone.net) Received: from [206.168.42.165] (btcn165.btcn.fone.net [206.168.42.165]) by mail2.fone.net (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j530DBrW000537 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <429F64BB.1050506@lavoltapress.com> References: <429F64BB.1050506@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <1a0c4b4e375d19b6de1b6fb7da5d1a8a@fone.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye Colors Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:15:38 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dyeing is such an art. Apparently there is a lengthy weekend or week long class that one of the national dye experts gives in nothing but mixing dye colors. I usually just like to experiment and see what happens, but it is rather frustrating when you actually have to come up with an exact shade of a color or when you have to duplicate a color from a swatch. But my dyeing is usually just for belly dance veils and I love to see how they will turn out differently from one to the next. Sylrog On Jun 2, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: > I ran the "rust brown" job, which came out rust orange with 3 cups of > salt in a 15-gallon washer, with the full amount of salt, no other > changes to the materials or process. It came out one shade darker, and > still dark reddish orange rather than reddish brown as on the dye > chart. > As for dye jobs not looking like the chart, though--I recently got a > number of printed charts for Procion MX dyes. One is the > manufacturer's chart, the others are from various vendors displaying > the dyes they sell. For most colors, ones that are supposed to be the > same color according to the labels, there is significant difference > among all the printed charts. > So who the heck knows, I suppose every dye job is a surprise and if > you don't like it you dye over it. > > Fran > Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:28:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531Sm8l031810 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:28:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531Mwnu053117 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531Mww2023390; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:22:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j52Lkfas094922 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:46:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.2b.7460f6db (3310) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.7460f6db.2fd0d837@aol.com> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:46:31 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 X-DCC-dcc3mcgill-Metrics: net.indra.com 1275; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Corson I did a Google search and found several books by him at Amazon, including this one. Very rich, but look as though they would be more than worth the investment for someone who was seriously interested in going the extra mile. :) ~Kimberley In a message dated 6/2/2005 5:27:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: There is a good book on Hair and hairdressing, probably out of print, by Richard _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:40:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531dx4d031863 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531dA5m054826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:39:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531d9UU031950; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531d5WL031913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:39:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j531Z0OR005456 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:35:00 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <429FB4B7.7070203@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:39:03 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> <429F7D7D.3020108@paradise.net.nz> <006701c567c1$14d50120$0301010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <006701c567c1$14d50120$0301010a@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michaela wrote: >>>So what do y'all figure the powder in the hair was for? To keep it >>>from looking oily? >>I don't think it was "for" anything, except the look. > Depending on what the powder was, and considering this was the 17thC (1662 > you see natural hair colours in wigs and hair styles, I haven't seen > powdered, has anyone else?) it could be for oilyness. Pepys said "that I am resolved to try how I can keep my head dry without powder" Thus the powder is a solution to the problem of non-dryness. But does he mean he's sweaty, or he's got oily hair, or something else? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Want to see my Brass Rubbings?" "Mediaevalist on Board" license plate frames at http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:49:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531nOnN031887 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:49:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531mYvL055678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:48:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531mWpW036828; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:48:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531mSGl036789 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:48:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1De1IR-0004eo-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:48:28 -0400 Message-ID: <429FB6F2.6030801@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:48:34 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] metallic lace-thankyou! References: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <00ed01c56777$bc50fac0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <008401c567a8$baca8b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <008401c567a8$baca8b90$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah! Coool! Thanks guys! Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I totally agree with you, this must be a bobbin lace in goldthread. > > Bjarne > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 3:33 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] metallic lace > > >> There's a portrait by Corneille de Lyon from 1530-40 of a woman with >> what I can only assume is some sort of metallic lace at the neckline: >> http://www.wga.hu/html/c/corneill/p_woman.html >> (If anyone can think of something _other_ than metallic lace that >> this could be, I'd like very much to know!) >> >> -E House >> _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 21:50:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j531oP8F031891 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:50:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j531ng5g055755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:49:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531ngpU037345; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:49:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j531ne8L037331 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:49:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1De1JZ-0004rX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:49:39 -0400 Message-ID: <429FB735.9090308@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:49:41 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Copper lace. References: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you M. Stewart! Can you tell me which Theater, where? Thanks M Stewart wrote: > > > > Copper lace ca. 1560. from Theater Inventory listings > > > >> Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have >> seen of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? >> >> Thanks, Sg >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 22:05:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5325j7S031946 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:05:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5324xd1057672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:04:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5324wgX045952; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5324tkY045889 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:04:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 7F2D31800125 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:04:50 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.30) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 3 Jun 2005 02:04:50 -0000 Received: by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 749E786B10; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:04:50 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.6; A1.17; B2.12; Q2.03) Received: from [149.169.167.72] by ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:04:50 -0500 X-Mailer: mail.lycos.com webmail From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:04:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: on the influence of weapons use and pockets X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.167.72 X-Originating-Server: ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050603020450.749E786B10@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5324tkY045889 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc wrote: > > I suspect that with the buttons, men's clothes developed that way > to facilite sticking the right hand under the coat or shirt, > particularly when storing junk in your clothes (wallets, > spectacles, car keys, knives, guns, nuclear explosive detonators, > whatever). Women, I would suppose, have those separate pockets, > reticules and later purses to stick their stuff in, and therefore > are less restricted on which way their buttons face. Except that a large number of pre-20th century *women's* garments fasten left on top. The switch to right on top for women seems to happen in the early 20th century. One of the times that this was discussed someone cited a article in _Costume_ that made a pretty good case for gender specific buttoning having showed up first with ready-made women's shirtwaists, in the 1890's and then become "the way things are" in the next few decades. -Katie -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 22:49:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j532n1AB032216 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:49:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j532lvUh060929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:47:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j532lp3m066729; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail6.mdx.safepages.com (mail6.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.49]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j532llM7066694 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:47:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 24122179DF4; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:47:47 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.4.43.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.4.43]) by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A17B9179DCE for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:47:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <025701c567e6$d00b2ee0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:49:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" > In Henry VIII's armory there is reputedly a revolver that is very similar > to the Colt pattern in design and breech loading weapons designed for > paper cartridges. Some things just are ahead of their time and so are so > atypical that they probably shouldn't be used to represent the norm of a > period. I would REALLY love to know more about this--can you give me any key words or point me towards any resources? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:16:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533Gq10032411 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:16:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533G4QN063046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:16:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533G3Ff080113; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:16:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j533FxDe080055 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:16:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58799 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2005 03:15:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=14CHMoVyD9LvI+5IaagauCM/6TBhjEckTRgLY1LXQFWCrY0qcoQHENZdpyY41tGMh59XFcpOI/1rLzYfFe9GSbFBCpVQB3l9QkTMxoHwnWwwKXBUXMg1MAvz6UsZqZ9ceV3s+w0TQpGcLA7mcAXeZnC53rW1YY3E1OnW1V1F3tw= ; Message-ID: <20050603031554.58797.qmail@web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:15:54 PDT Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:15:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Scotch guard and dyeing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, A question please, does anyone know if an application of Scotch Guard Fabric treatment will affect how or if dye is used on the garment at a later date? Or should one dye ,then Scotch guard,and would this cause any type of chemical reaction? Thanks Melody __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:18:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533IFIQ032425 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:18:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533HZrT063177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533HZVJ080761; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533HV5G080702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:17:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j534bSnt025002 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:37:28 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:17:24 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050602161730.20797.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050602161730.20797.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506022317.24995.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 02 June 2005 12:17 pm, Gytha Stonegrinder wrote: > I am traveling right now without that book... I will check it when I return > in mid-June... I read the entire book and my impression was that there are > actually pockets and not just slits, but I could be wrong. That's just fine. See you then! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:26:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533QAgI032474 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:26:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533PPkH063979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:25:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533POJI084550; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:25:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533PLib084502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:25:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j534jJVm025151 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:45:19 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:25:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> <007701c567a7$84214760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <007701c567a7$84214760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506022325.14810.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 02 June 2005 3:16 pm, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi Cynthia, > I think this is the case. > I could also imagine that if you did not wash your hair for about 14 days, > ( i have never tryed this :-)) it would get quite oily, and if you had some > long curls, it would grease your clothes on the shoulders. The powder would > eat all that grease, and kind of protect your clothes, the powder > could just be brushed away with a cloth brush. It's an interesting thought. Except for the fact that powder was used by both sexes, both on wigs and on hair styles that never went anywhere near the shoulders (such as the upswept towering women's styles of the 1780s.) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:27:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533RrhE032486 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:27:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533REVE064110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533REqx085374; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533RBH1085344 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m12.in-tch.com [216.166.191.12]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j533MDV09983 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <429FCBE8.6000206@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:18:00 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths, dogs and petticoats (just for fun...) References: <1e4.3cc76032.2fd0775a@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1e4.3cc76032.2fd0775a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dunno about Mary QofS, but I definitely agree about the cats! I have four, and they *definitely* choose more frequently to sleep with me on the bed when the weather is cooler or cold (and sometimes very snugly...I even have one that will root around under the covers and hiss like a steam kettle if I don't make room for her). I can even tell if the temperature drops during the night because instead of napping on me or on the bed, they'll all pile on, and *stay* there. ;o) --Sue, in a remarkably-chilly-for-a-June-evening Montana....hmmmm....wool sox and hot tea....hmmmm.... Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/2/2005 7:22:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > lalahcatlady@netscape.com writes: > I wouldn't want to carry a critter around with me, but a half dozen cats > beats an electric blanket any cold night!! > Apparently, Mary Queen of Scots brought her little dog along with her to her > execution hidden under her petticoat. No one knew it was there until her head > was removed, upon which the dog became extremely distressed and began > wailing. This is not an urban legend, I believe, as I came across it in a history of > the Tudor family by a reputable historian. But who knows? Cheryl Odom > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:35:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533ZQbr032530 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:35:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533YYft064646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533YXUa088784; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:34:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533YTL8088715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j534sRNg025312 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:54:27 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:34:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200506020728.37682.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429F7D5D.5060206@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <429F7D5D.5060206@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506022334.23709.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 02 June 2005 5:42 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >On Thursday 02 June 2005 2:54 am, Stephanie Smith wrote: > >[snip] > > > >>Adele wrote: > >>I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a > >>picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into > >>the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on > >>separate bands didn't stay popular for at least > >>another 300 years. > > > >I grabbed for my copy when I read that. Actually, Arnold describes two > > pair of upper hose with pockets, both dated to the late 1610s. > > I stand (slightly) corrected :) 1618, to be exact. :-) Though, to be fair, that doesn't mean that there were no men's upper hose with pockets before 1600. It's unlikely anyone would have thought of trying something like an integral pocket in the more leg-contoured upper hose early in Elizabeth's reign (I forget what they're called. Camions? Canions?) because actually putting anything in such a pocket would risk spoiling the silhouette, so to speak. Before then, upper hose fit much too closely (and, while codpieces were in fashion, there wouldn't have been much of a need for another form of pocket. One could even argue that the codpiece was superior because it would be really hard for pickpockets to get at it without alerting the prorprietor. ) It strikes me as very possible that integral pockets may have turned up in men's wear as early as the 1580's, but I think it's hard arguing for the existence of integral pockets before then. (Pockets worn on a separate string, and clothing with slits permitting access to same, are another story.) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:43:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533hELX032567 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:43:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533gXow065081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:42:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533gV9s092782; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:42:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533g8Jr092581 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E063C013 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:42:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id F39EBD417 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:42:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Scotch guard and dyeing Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:42:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20050603031554.58797.qmail@web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From my experience you need to dye first and then once you have the color you sew it and then scotch guard the item. De -----Original Message----- Hi, A question please, does anyone know if an application of Scotch Guard Fabric treatment will affect how or if dye is used on the garment at a later date? Or should one dye ,then Scotch guard,and would this cause any type of chemical reaction? Thanks Melody _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:50:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533oHA5032603 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:50:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533nRmR065548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:49:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533nOb9096049; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:49:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533nJot096008 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:49:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP131RQB0G95OE50@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:49:14 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP131QRWW68Y8W5R@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:49:12 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:50:31 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-reply-to: <200506022334.23709.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <429FD387.7070600@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200506020728.37682.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429F7D5D.5060206@paradise.net.nz> <200506022334.23709.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >Before then, upper hose fit much too closely (and, >while codpieces were in fashion, there wouldn't have been much of a need for >another form of pocket. One could even argue that the codpiece was superior >because it would be really hard for pickpockets to get at it without alerting >the prorprietor. ) > > I think you may have highlighted another myth here... -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:52:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533qOUZ032619 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533pT1R065743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:51:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533pOY0097053; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:51:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533pIQ1096979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j535BGDh025691 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:11:16 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] first bras (was: Costuming myths) Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:51:11 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20756740.1117653829300.JavaMail.root@wamui-valley.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <00f501c56778$02a659c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> <01f301c5679d$0b7a0680$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <01f301c5679d$0b7a0680$0400a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506022351.12011.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 02 June 2005 2:01 pm, E House wrote: > Well, here's one I hadn't noticed before (click to enlarge): > http://haabet.dk/patent/43321/index.html > I think _this_ would have to be the first bra, from 1864 (unless you count > that regency thingy, or the 18thC really-high-waisted bust corsets). Can > we CRINGE? Yes. This thing looks more like what Lucas had Princess Leia wear after she was captured by Jabba the Hut, rather than a true bra. > Actually, I've seen mention of one from 1863, patented by Luman > L. Chapman, but have yet to find a picture. > > Many 1880s-1890s 'health corsets' were basically bras with unboned (though > not unstiffened) waists attached: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/c1882-2.gif That seems more like a modern camisole than anything that would provide real breast support--so I would hesitate to call it a bra or a bra-ancestor. > Marie Tucek's 1893 bust supporter is commonly called the first bra: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/1893braMTucek494397.gif Yup, looks like a bra, all right. Now I'm mad at the so-called histories I'd read that don't include it. > Most of the earliest separate bust support originated from a desire for a > more attractive figure, leading to the 'bust perfector' patented 1899: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/kabobust.jpg > (From the propaganda: "It is an efficient bust support, and will be hailed > with delight by the athletic woman who wants the waist entirely free." Still looks more like a camisole than either a bra or a corset to me, but this model at least looks as though it would provide breast support. > This one, from 1909, shows the evolution of the bust form into the > brassiere: http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/us000933265-001.gif > As does this, from 1914 (click to enlarge): > http://haabet.dk/patent/1231011/index.html > > Here are a couple of those bust forms, both c1910: > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/corset1.jpg > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/vec289.jpg > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/vec289a.jpg This gets us into Ms. Jacob's era and her direct competitors. My question was whether the bra was invented before the 1910s. Apparently there were bra inventions before then, though it's hard to know how many women wore them. Thanks for all the nifty links! By the way, Herminie Cadolle (the woman who invented the "soutien gorge") founded a designer lingerie house which is in operation to this day: Wiki entry about Cadolle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herminie_Cadolle Cadolle company web site (note; features flash and annoying background music): http://www.cadolle.com/ -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 2 23:54:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j533s33P032630 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:54:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533rLq0065850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:53:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533rK9p097947; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:53:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j533rHKV097875 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBK9W9TAG6BRE2 for (sender ); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:52:17 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7yFKX6FbYEBYe7NyBB2WO4ImfymPGoJwDQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUJUAXHX; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:52:09 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:46:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Message-ID: <20050602.224607.-740223.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-16,18-81 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 31:15:2599790036 X-MAIL-INFO: 0435cdb9cd759dbc759dad289dade901fc2dbda829412de121d82939e1f8b80ce199853c35c1353d11aded9d3528 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jumping in here without my books to hand.....I remember seeing at least one man's portrait with an elaborately embroidered handkerchief corner hanging out of what could be a pocket in his paned slops and I seem to remember a portrait of a woman in a surcoat who also had an embroidered handkerchief hanging out of an apparent pocket. These were both comfortably in the reign of Elizabeth ( that style of surcoat being 'in' during the first half of her reign). The lady might have had hers showing from a separate pocket worn under the surcoat.....but an integral pocket seems more likely. The gentleman probably had a pocket in the fullness of the lining of the slops. Can I prove this without a doubt? Nope. But it's the simplest explanation for the observed phenomenon. Karen Seamstrix On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:34:23 -0400 Catherine Olanich Raymond writes: > On Thursday 02 June 2005 5:42 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > > >On Thursday 02 June 2005 2:54 am, Stephanie Smith wrote: > > >[snip] > > > > > >>Adele wrote: > > >>I think Janet Arnold's _Patterns of Fashion_ has a > > >>picture of a pair of Venetians with a pocket set into > > >>the side seam. This is _not_ to say that pockets on > > >>separate bands didn't stay popular for at least > > >>another 300 years. > > > > > >I grabbed for my copy when I read that. Actually, Arnold > describes two > > > pair of upper hose with pockets, both dated to the late 1610s. > > > > I stand (slightly) corrected :) > > 1618, to be exact. :-) > > Though, to be fair, that doesn't mean that there were no men's upper > hose with > pockets before 1600. It's unlikely anyone would have thought of > trying > something like an integral pocket in the more leg-contoured upper > hose early > in Elizabeth's reign (I forget what they're called. Camions? > Canions?) > because actually putting anything in such a pocket would risk > spoiling the > silhouette, so to speak. Before then, upper hose fit much too > closely (and, > while codpieces were in fashion, there wouldn't have been much of a > need for > another form of pocket. One could even argue that the codpiece was > superior > because it would be really hard for pickpockets to get at it without > alerting > the prorprietor. ) > > It strikes me as very possible that integral pockets may have turned > up in > men's wear as early as the 1580's, but I think it's hard arguing for > the > existence of integral pockets before then. (Pockets worn on a > separate > string, and clothing with slits permitting access to same, are > another > story.) > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse > powered by > entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm > going > to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 00:00:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53404jb032656 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:00:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j533xItr066355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:59:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533xHp0000989; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:59:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j533xCi2000931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:59:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-244-241-97-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.241.97]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j533x93H014375 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:59:10 +1000 Message-ID: <003b01c567f0$6fe4ba40$61f1f4dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <27419409.1117728833111.JavaMail.root@wamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:58:01 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > As for the continued popularity of hanging pockets even after built-in pockets were invented -- if I had to speculate, I'd say one major advantage for the fashion-conscious is that they don't affect the "hang" of the garment as much. Putting something heavy or large in a built-in pocket can create a visible bulge, if one cares about such things. With a hanging pocket, if the garments aren't closely fitted you can practically carry a partridge in a pear tree without it showing nearly as much :) My Elizabethan farthingale has pockets built into it that hang *inside* the hoops, for that reason, and they hold my checkbook and wallet, handkerchiefs, spectacles, pens, etc. etc. (not that I can document farthingale pockets, but they're certainly practical). > 0 Chris Laning I find pouches on a belt (worn either over or under my skirts) are more convenient because instead of transferring all the objects from one pocket to another I just transfer the belt and pocket at once. I expect it would be much the same for the objects that women in the past needed to carry every day. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 00:01:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5341MaZ032666 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:01:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5340hHO066455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:00:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5340fn7001626; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:00:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.mc.surewest.net (smtp2.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5340ckJ001598 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:00:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-13201); Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:00:34 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp2.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:00:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050602205910.00dc1950@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:00:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Scotch guard and dyeing In-Reply-To: <20050603031554.58797.qmail@web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp2.mc.surewest.net SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:15 PM 6/2/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, >A question please, does anyone know if an application >of Scotch Guard Fabric treatment will affect how or if >dye is used on the garment at a later date? >Or should one dye ,then Scotch guard,and would this >cause any type of chemical reaction? >Thanks >Melody Since ScotchGuard will prevent water penetration, you definitely don't want to treat the fabric until after you have dyed it. Once the dye is set and the fabric is dry, treating it should not cause any problem with the dye job. Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 00:36:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j534aFQJ000327 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j534ZQJF069043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:35:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j534ZPg2017100; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:35:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j534ZKXp017046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j535tI6u026561 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:55:19 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:35:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200506022334.23709.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429FD387.7070600@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <429FD387.7070600@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506030035.14930.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 02 June 2005 11:50 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >Before then, upper hose fit much too closely (and, > >while codpieces were in fashion, there wouldn't have been much of a need > > for another form of pocket. One could even argue that the codpiece was > > superior because it would be really hard for pickpockets to get at it > > without alerting the prorprietor. ) > > I think you may have highlighted another myth here... I don't deny that there's no proof that anyone carried his ...money in his codpiece. On the other hand, I know of no proof that it *wasn't* done, either. And you must grant that although a preoccupied man might fail to notice a tug at his belt or other part of his body, reaching for his crotch could not fail to get a reaction. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 00:42:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j534g9I7000352 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:42:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j534fPtd069658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:41:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j534fOJF019868; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:41:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j534fKIl019803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:41:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5361IgV026689 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:01:18 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:41:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050602.224607.-740223.0.penhalion@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050602.224607.-740223.0.penhalion@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506030041.14375.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 02 June 2005 11:46 pm, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > Jumping in here without my books to hand.....I remember seeing at least > one man's portrait with an elaborately embroidered handkerchief corner > hanging out of what could be a pocket in his paned slops Or, perhaps, from behind a pane in his paned slops? At any event, I'd love to see the portrait. > and I seem to > remember a portrait of a woman in a surcoat who also had an embroidered > handkerchief hanging out of an apparent pocket. These were both > comfortably in the reign of Elizabeth ( that style of surcoat being 'in' > during the first half of her reign). If it's the kind of surcoat I think you mean (sleeveless, full-length, with a suggestion of a collar and some fitting through the torso?), I think it came in toward the end of the first half of her reign--which would put it near the 1580s. Elizabeth took the throne in 1558. > The lady might have had hers showing > from a separate pocket worn under the surcoat.....but an integral pocket > seems more likely. Why? > The gentleman probably had a pocket in the fullness of > the lining of the slops. If they were indeed full slops, I agree that certainly is possible. But Elizabeth took the throne in the late 1550s. I didn't think the full slops started to come in for a good 15 years after that (though I could be mistaken; I don't know Elizabethan costume as well as some other eras). Of course, it all depends upon the date of the costumes in the portrait. If the portrait is late 1570s-early 1580s, I quite agree with you. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 01:02:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5352jWr000417 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5351pfv070708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:01:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5351mXx028061; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:01:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5351k4q028040 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:01:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-34-224.jps.net ([209.165.34.224] helo=[209.165.50.47]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1De4JU-00033K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:01:45 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <006701c567c1$14d50120$0301010a@michaela> References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> <429F7D7D.3020108@paradise.net.nz> <006701c567c1$14d50120$0301010a@michaela> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:40:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:19 AM +1200 6/3/05, michaela wrote: > >"If the hair is still oily and lies flat on the head, sprinkle a little >powdered orris-root on the hair, then brush it out thoroughly. This will >make the hair soft and fluffy, will polish and gloss it, and the odour from >the orris-root is delightfully refreshing and pleasant." Anyone else old enough to remember using cornmeal for this? I remember my mom doing this sort of "dry shampoo" treatment on me a few times when I was quite young. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 01:02:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5352jt4000418 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5351pRt070709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:01:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5351oRQ028077; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5351l47028048 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:01:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-34-224.jps.net ([209.165.34.224] helo=[209.165.50.47]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1De4JW-00033K-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:01:47 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:57:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO P.S. Let's not forget "pointy toed shoes with points so long they have to be fastened with chains to the knees so the wearer doesn't trip over them" Or the idea that all medieval women wore those tall cone-shaped hats with a veil hanging from the point.... (actually IIRC the veil, for the fairly short time this hat style was in fashion, was actually draped over the _entire_ hat, but it's hard to see in paintings, except for the folds at the back, because it's so transparent...) Or the idea that knights wore their armor all the time (in the movies they even seem to wear it while making love, or trying to.... :). Or the idea that armor is so heavy that the wearer has to be hoisted up onto his horse, or that he can't get up if he falls over.... but then I'm not sure if armor actually qualifies as "clothing." Or chastity belts. Or iron corsets (both of which I think we've discussed extensively in the archives...). -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 01:12:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j535CApJ000450 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:12:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j535BNoH071305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:11:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j535BMH3031711; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:11:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j535BJhx031686 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:11:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15968 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:29:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:28:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Chris Laning wrote: > At 10:19 AM +1200 6/3/05, michaela wrote: > > > >"If the hair is still oily and lies flat on the head, sprinkle a little > >powdered orris-root on the hair, then brush it out thoroughly. This will > >make the hair soft and fluffy, will polish and gloss it, and the odour from > >the orris-root is delightfully refreshing and pleasant." > > Anyone else old enough to remember using cornmeal for this? I > remember my mom doing this sort of "dry shampoo" treatment on me a > few times when I was quite young. I keep plain oatmeal on hand for this. Works like a charm. Something scented would be nice. Apparently orris root powder is sold at craft stores, for potpourris. I'm going to check it out. However, my experience with powders is that they're much more of a nuisance to get out of the hair compared to something rough or large like oatmeal (or even cornmeal), which brushes out easily and leaves the hair light and clean. Baby powder or talcum powder just stick in the hair and get gummy/heavy. I stand in the back yard when I brush out oatmeal. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 01:22:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j535M1Xb000503 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:22:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j535L9jM072245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:21:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j535L8XL035966; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:21:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j535L5j2035948 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:21:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.21.46] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1De4cA-0001Wb-TS for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: <035f01c567fc$07123360$2e159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org> <429F7D7D.3020108@paradise.net.nz><006701c567c1$14d50120$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:20:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b3b93b731fbf231ecac78737fee3f16d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.46 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Michaela wrote >>"If the hair is still oily and lies flat on the head, sprinkle a little >>powdered orris-root on the hair, then brush it out thoroughly. This will >>make the hair soft and fluffy, will polish and gloss it, and the odour >>from >>the orris-root is delightfully refreshing and pleasant." Then Chris wrote > Anyone else old enough to remember using cornmeal for this? I remember my > mom doing this sort of "dry shampoo" treatment on me a few times when I > was quite young. > -- How about something called "Minipoo", as in "when you can't shampoo, minipoo". It came in a shaker can, sort of like grated parmesan cheese, and you shook it onto your hair, let it sit a while, then brushed it out. This was back in the late 50s/early 60's. I don't remember how successful a product it was, but I do remember getting dosed with it in the winter or when I was sick. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 03:08:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5378wei023752 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:08:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5376ZV3078446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5375oEW080469; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5375ktG080431 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:05:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be04.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.4]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 855AD262877 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:05:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <010c01c5680a$acdf6390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <429EF881.8040404@thibault.org><007701c567a7$84214760$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <200506022325.14810.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:05:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It's an interesting thought. Except for the fact that powder was used by > both > sexes, both on wigs and on hair styles that never went anywhere near the > shoulders (such as the upswept towering women's styles of the 1780s.) Powdering hair for men started in 1670-80ies if not earlyer and this time men had long hair. Perhaps it was just a tradition that started there, and went on even if the hair got shorter. In 18th century boys of the age of 12 had all their hair cut off and they started to wear wigs. And as they wore these wigs all the time, their own hair got bad because it was hide away all the time. Same thing happens if you wear a hat all the time. Women seldom wore wigs in 18th century, but had the hairstyles made of their own hair. But the same thing with the wig and hygiene. It also seldom was washed, and therefore it was easyer to powder it and fresh it up. Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 03:41:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j537fTK6029313 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:41:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j537enAk080399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j537emk8093915; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:40:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j537ei5n093888 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 01:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-113-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.113]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j537eh9P028773 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:40:43 +1000 Message-ID: <001e01c5680f$6392f260$71dbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com><429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:39:34 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) > P.S. Let's not forget "pointy toed shoes with points so long they > have to be fastened with chains to the knees so the wearer doesn't > trip over them" > > Or the idea that all medieval women wore those tall cone-shaped hats > with a veil hanging from the point.... (actually IIRC the veil, for > the fairly short time this hat style was in fashion, was actually > draped over the _entire_ hat, but it's hard to see in paintings, > except for the folds at the back, because it's so transparent...) Actually, while draping the veil over the whole hennin (i.e. pointy hat) was more common there is evidence for veils dangling from the tip too. See this page http://members.fortunecity.com/cadieuxx/burgundy3.html the pictures showing veils dangling from the tip are about halfway down the page. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 04:21:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j538LNdx006050 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j538K0Wi082709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:20:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538JviS010097; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:19:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538JtwE010070 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j538Jr28012330 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:19:53 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j538JadR351572 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:19:54 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050603002726.0337f5c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:30:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: References: <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Or the idea that armor is so heavy that the wearer has to be hoisted up >onto his horse, or that he can't get up if he falls over.... They may have been talking about jousting armor, which is much thicker/heavier than the kind worn in wars. I heard a story that a knight in armor was expected to be able to get up and remount his horse if he fell off. >Or chastity belts. Or iron corsets Both of these garments exist. I'm not saying they aren't Victorian, Kinky, or joke things, but they do exist. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 04:21:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j538LNbr006049 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:21:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j538K0J1082710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:20:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538Jvd8010096; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:19:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538Jsx8010067 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j538Jq28012322 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:19:53 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j538JadP351572 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:19:54 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050603002338.025fd770@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:25:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <429F7DD2.1090907@paradise.net.nz> References: <20050602132542.360073955@sitemail.everyone.net> <20050602132542.360073955@sitemail.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>QE 1 was very proud of her height and Mary Queen of Scots was almost six >>feet tall. >Do you have a source for that information about Mary's height? I've heard >that she was taller than Elizabeth, but that's about all. Davenport says, in her costume book, that, according to a garment supposedly worn my Elizabeth I and which is in the Elizabeth Day McCormick collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, Elizabeth I was the size of a ten-year-old American girl. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 04:23:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j538N7Nh006349 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:23:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j538M4Ao082854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:22:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538M4IY010890; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:22:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538M0LA010798 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:22:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j538Lod20405.; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:21:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:21:50 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:21:14 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j538M0LA010798 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> r.carnegie@verizon.net 02/06/2005 18:42 >>> wrote: > You do pull a sword across your "front" when drawing. They are commonly worn by a >right hander on the left hip. I still doubt that this is really the reason though. You pull it across >your frontage, BUT not across your actual front. (i.e. It is not drug across the chest itself). Well, that's what I meant. Obviously it has to be transferred left to right, but surely the hilt moves outward from the body, not across against the clothing. My father was born in 1907, and the books I have of his were published around the later years of WW1. The buttoning convention must have been well established by then for a boys' book to offer an "explanation" of it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 04:27:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j538R1As007014 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:27:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j538Q8V4083057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:26:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538Q7D1012431; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:26:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j538Q4q0012381 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:26:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j538Pvd20688.; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:25:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:25:57 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:25:27 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j538Q4q0012381 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> thebruce@ihug.co.nz 02/06/2005 23:19 >>> > > So what do y'all figure the powder in the hair was for? To keep it > > from looking oily? > > > I don't think it was "for" anything, except the look. >Depending on what the powder was, and considering this was the 17thC (1662 >you see natural hair colours in wigs and hair styles, I haven't seen >powdered, has anyone else?) it could be for oilyness. I was going to say the same thing. White hair powder wasn't in fashion at the time Pepys was writing his diary. It must have been to absorb oil. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 05:12:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j539C4SA017741 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j539BF5s085426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:11:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j539BAvi030184; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j539B5l0030147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:11:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-222-65-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.65]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j539B2l8031080 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:11:02 +1000 Message-ID: <001901c5681c$00ee08e0$41def5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:09:52 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] how to clean & store a lace collar X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, My grandma just gave me a few things when she was doing a clean out, one of them is a lace collar which belonged to her mother, so it could be any time after c. 1900 it's in really good condition (I can only find a couple of flaws where a thread has broken) but it's been sitting in a chest for a long time and it's got that musty smell and I think its discoloured (there's one or two tiny brown spots). So far I was thinking of just washing it in hot water and pure soap and laying it out in the sun, could I use 'oxygen' stain removal powder (nappi san for Australians) to get rid of the stains or would that damage it? Can I just wrap it in a piece of (washed, cotton) fabric to store it or should I go out and buy some acid free paper? thanks, Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 05:46:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j539kiS6026973 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:46:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j539jkXi087069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j539jjUX043311; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:45:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j539jgQu043246 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:45:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 64749 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2005 09:45:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2005 09:45:32 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050603103933.014dedb8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:43:32 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] how to clean & store a lace collar In-Reply-To: <001901c5681c$00ee08e0$41def5dc@e9q5h8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:09 03/06/2005 +1000, you wrote: >Hi everyone, >My grandma just gave me a few things when she was doing a clean out, one of >them is a lace collar which belonged to her mother, so it could be any time >after c. 1900 it's in really good condition (I can only find a couple of >flaws where a thread has broken) but it's been sitting in a chest for a long >time and it's got that musty smell and I think its discoloured (there's one >or two tiny brown spots). So far I was thinking of just washing it in hot >water and pure soap and laying it out in the sun, could I use 'oxygen' stain >removal powder (nappi san for Australians) to get rid of the stains or would >that damage it? Can I just wrap it in a piece of (washed, cotton) fabric to >store it or should I go out and buy some acid free paper? >thanks, >Elizabeth >-------------------------------------------- My friend who collects lace told me to wrap it round a bottle or jar before washing in plain water to start with. It can be dried that way too. I don't know about using anything stronger (she lives in Denmark with no e-mail so I can't ask), but real soap (Lux, Fairy, shaved bar soap, baby shampoo or wash - not detergent) is probably as safe as anything, and would be what was used originally. I store everything *old* in acid free tissue in archive boxes. (Part of my storage problem!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 06:17:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53AHqQp002523 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:17:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53AGFWd092666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:16:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53AGCZv056301; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53AGAhO056282 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 04:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp460.pop1.net [209.102.126.60]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA16122 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 03:19:16 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp460.pop1.net [209.102.126.60] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <42A02DC5.1060202@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 03:15:33 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In my search about women in the late 13th through the 14th centuries, I can find any info about women carrying any form of knife/dagger. Do any of you know if women ever did carry any form of a blade? If I understand correctly they carried a pouch and possibly a rosary (which I am having problems finding what one actually looked like even looking at pictures). Thanks for any help. And by the way, it looks like I finally get to start to work on stuffed toy horse next week. A doll maker friend is going to sit down with me and help me make my first ever doll/animal. I'll take some pictures as soon as it is done. I guess that leads to another question. When taking pictures of projects; is it best to make a photo journal of the steps I take in any of my projects? Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 07:08:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53B81qd002733 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:08:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53B6wxm007023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53B6uq2077172; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:06:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53B6q09077122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:06:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 563E0DBC37 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C338BDBC43 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01c301c5682c$44c79f30$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: spiders..Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:06:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:13 PM Subject: RE: spiders..Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) >I had been given the name Spider Woman or Starspider by an elder because of > my unique ability to attract spiders especially but not exclusively when > out > doors. Five minutes after I have my tent up there will be at least one > spider with their web up inside it. That name suits me too. And especially in this house, I've never seen so many spiders in my life. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 07:13:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53BDQ1d002783 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:13:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53BCdd7007237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53BCKDe079315; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.119]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53BC7VS079153 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050603111158.EDSF1901.mta208-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:11:58 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.200.185]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050603111157.EJRT8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:11:57 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.322 [267.5.1]); Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:12:00 +1200 Message-ID: <009501c5682d$0ff775e0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42A02DC5.1060202@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:11:58 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In my search about women in the late 13th through the 14th centuries, > I can find any info about women carrying any form of knife/dagger. Do > any of you know if women ever did carry any form of a blade? If I > understand correctly they carried a pouch and possibly a rosary (which I > am having problems finding what one actually looked like even looking at > pictures). Well.. wrong century, and probably not what you are after... But in researching some late 16thC German dress I did notice some odd things hanging off women's girdles. They can be seen most readily in the Jost Amman Frauenzimmer book. It looks like two daggers in a single sheath that hang quite horizontally at times. Click to view the full sized image. http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183034.html (below her pouch) http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183035.html (behind her pouch) http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183037.html (ditto) http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183127.html (beside her pouch hanging near her hem) http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183128.html (obcsured by her pouch) http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/zwimmer.htm There are probably more, these were the most likely looking "German" women I could find, but my understanding of place names is ever so much better than when I made those links I'm sure I will be doing a fair bit of editing later;) Someone on my friends list on Livejournal had also pointed out quite coincidentally extant items that were these girdles and objects. So I made an update in my own journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/pinkdiamond/322146.html I have many images from bildindex of the extant items not pointed to in my journal. It took some hunting, and I cannot remember which museums I found them all in. I'm hoping to eventually get a set made or learn somehow to cast my own. So it is possibly a knife and fork set worn in a "lederfuttel." I'm guessing fork rather than spoon for the shape and possibly the status. I did see one in a portrait that is lurking somewhere in my files as well... Anyway, they are just another funky accessory I'm trying to organise for my complete wardrobe of a 1570s German woman;) Hats, extra snuggly layers, an apron, pouch and possibly shoes.. and definitely the cutlery set;) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 2/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 07:16:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53BGPuL002808 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:16:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53BFjlI007359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:15:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53BFisF080720; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:15:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53BFfom080407 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 05:15:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from CSV6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j53BExd02142.; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:14:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-MTA by CSV6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:14:59 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:14:34 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j53BFfom080407 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Didn't people carry their own cutlery (rather than expect it to be supplied when they ate out)? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> roscelin@pcez.com 03/06/2005 11:15 >>> In my search about women in the late 13th through the 14th centuries, I can find any info about women carrying any form of knife/dagger. Do any of you know if women ever did carry any form of a blade? If I understand correctly they carried a pouch and possibly a rosary (which I am having problems finding what one actually looked like even looking at pictures). Thanks for any help. And by the way, it looks like I finally get to start to work on stuffed toy horse next week. A doll maker friend is going to sit down with me and help me make my first ever doll/animal. I'll take some pictures as soon as it is done. I guess that leads to another question. When taking pictures of projects; is it best to make a photo journal of the steps I take in any of my projects? Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 08:02:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53C2GZG003087 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53C1SMJ010987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:01:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53C1PfD000285; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:01:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53C1NWo000254 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:01:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (rrcs-nys-24-24-31-245.biz.rr.com [24.24.31.245] (may be forged)) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j53C1Gcq005091 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050603074942.00b72b28@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:59:27 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Copper lace. In-Reply-To: <429FB735.9090308@earthlink.net> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> <5.2.1.1.2.20050602080125.01961be0@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.6.3.8 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK... I have the reference in front of me now so here goes. From "Renaissance Clothing and the Materials of Memory" by Ann Rosalind Jones & Peter Stallybrass on p. 190 They mention copper lace, and then give a footnote. The footnote reads... "See also MacIntyre, Costumes and Scripts, 93-5." I believe that MacIntyre pulled her information from the Henslowe's 1598 inventories of the Admiral's Men. Remember- these would have been for stage costumes. Look the part from afar, but not for anything other than the stage. Hope it's useful. Mari >Thank you M. Stewart! Can you tell me which Theater, where? Thanks > >M Stewart wrote: > >> >> >> >>Copper lace ca. 1560. from Theater Inventory listings >> >> >> >>>Hi all you Lacers out there. What is the earliest evidence you have >>>seen of any kind of lace made from metallic threads? >>> >>>Thanks, Sg >> >>Webmaster@vet.cornell.edu >> >>Mari Stewart >>College of Veterinary Medicine >>Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 09:07:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53D7Zu8003468 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:07:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53D6QaK015155 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53D6KqQ029607; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:06:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53D6Iun029587 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:06:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-9536); Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:57:40 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.24) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:57:39 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050603055603.00db4960@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:59:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives In-Reply-To: <42A02DC5.1060202@pcez.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.24 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:15 AM 6/3/2005 -0700, you wrote: > In my search about women in the late 13th through the 14th centuries, I > can find any info about women carrying any form of knife/dagger. Do any > of you know if women ever did carry any form of a blade? If I understand > correctly they carried a pouch and possibly a rosary (which I am having > problems finding what one actually looked like even looking at pictures). > Thanks for any help. And by the way, it looks like I finally get to > start to work on stuffed toy horse next week. A doll maker friend is > going to sit down with me and help me make my first ever doll/animal. >I'll take some pictures as soon as it is done. I guess that leads to >another question. When taking pictures of projects; is it best to make a >photo journal of the steps I take in any of my projects? > >Roscelin For information about medieval rosaries, try Chris Laning's web site at http://paternosters.home.igc.org/ . Given the simplicity of most of the rosaries (and the variety of styles), you should be able to make one easily. Joan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 09:21:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53DLAEX003545 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:21:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53DJkhJ016391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53DJjEL036256; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:19:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53DJg1Y036212 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:19:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLAYHKA5TKWE2 for (sender ); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:19:37 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn76ATuUChmGIhh8i/A+u9U+58iVQKVuHJCg== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUKUQ28Z; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:19:06 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:12:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Message-ID: <20050603.081243.-740223.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-6,14-24,32-39,45-48 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 14:7:3891737289 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:41:14 -0400 Catherine Olanich Raymond writes: > > Or, perhaps, from behind a pane in his paned slops? At any event, > I'd love to see the portrait. Of course I can't find my copy of 'A Visual History of Costume- 16th Century' which is where I think I saw the gentleman with the handkerchief coming out of his pocket. Rats! Believe me, in the early part of Elizabeth's reign, there was enough fullness in men's breeches to hide a decent sized pocket. I think the portrait may have been of Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester....but I can't be sure. If anyone has a copy of the book handy, you can take a look and let me know if I should keep tearing my sewing room apart looking for it. > If it's the kind of surcoat I think you mean (sleeveless, > full-length, with a > suggestion of a collar and some fitting through the torso?), I think > it came > in toward the end of the first half of her reign--which would put it > near the 1580s. Elizabeth took the throne in 1558. It's a fitted version of the surcoat with sleeves. It's in Queen E's Unl on page 188. The portrait is of "'Joan Thornbury, Mrs. Hugh Wakeman' panel painting by Hans Eworth 1566. She wears what is probably a Flanders gown and a white linen handkerchief with a tassel on the corner hangs out of the pocket. Present whereabouts unknown." The placement of the pocket opening rather far down on the side of the gown would seem to indicate that it is not a separate article tied around her waist.....but look for yourself and tell me what you think. > Of course, it all depends upon the date of the costumes in the > portrait. If > the portrait is late 1570s-early 1580s, I quite agree with you. I'm pretty sure that the man's portrait is no later than 1580, and men's breeches would have been plenty full at that point. 'The Tailor' by Moroni dated 1570 shows very full breeches on a middle class man (page 4 Patterns of Fashion) and on page 14 there are 4 separate portraits of men ranging from 1556 thru 1574 all showing paned shops with considerable fullness. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 09:30:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53DUmdM003603 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:30:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53DTvWH017383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:29:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53DTtT4041652; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:29:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53DTrKi041597 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:29:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLAY2QAVJPR4J for (sender ); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:28:46 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn76ATuUChmGIhCesP17kRl5oeutS9Xhcj5Q== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUKVAEZ3; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 06:28:35 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:21:36 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Message-ID: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,14-15,17-51,52-32767 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 18:9:3591174816 X-MAIL-INFO: 01875abb5aefef0737afaf775e9fee433e4b2a47a70ea72e3b03badf03e32e7ece272b2e4a4b37079f13339bee0783779fea7ef7771a339e7edf1a5bce57e757d71b7fd71b470a1b471a5b3a736a2393ea739eb78f93a39e3e8e4f9e0f6e17ce83ceee7b47eb1bce0a X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the other hand I remember reading in a source (can't remember which one, I've read so many!) that Queen E was 5'7" tall. At one point she was talking to a visiting dignitary while walking thru a palace and made the joke that she was 'as big as a door'. While Elizabethan doors might have been somewhat smaller than later doors, they were still at least 6 feet tall. I think that the combination of being somewhat tall with an tall elaborate hairstyle and the wide farthingale and sleeves might have made her quite literally as big as an average door. Just my tuppence as someone who has spent far too much time studying Elizabeth and Elizabethan costuming. ;-) Karen Seamstrix P.S. As a ten year old American girl I was well over 5 feet tall...... On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:25:30 -0700 Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Davenport says, in her costume book, that, according to a garment > supposedly worn my Elizabeth I and which is in the Elizabeth Day > McCormick > collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, Elizabeth I was the size > of a > ten-year-old American girl. > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 10:16:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53EG059003984 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:16:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53EF1Bq021272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:15:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53EEkpq067810; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53EEgul067699 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:14:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLA3N6AGQYU92 for (sender ); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgg1KLwYptN4F3IzEXjU0818= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUKXT35B; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:13:11 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:08:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives Message-ID: <20050603.071235.3452.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,6-9,11-16 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 5:2:2876683703 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been studying medieval English noble households of late--everyone, regardless of rank or place, brought their own knife to the table. It was expected to be clean, as anything less was extremely bad manners. Apparently spoons were supplied. I've yet to find a picture of an eating knife though. Anyone have any references? Arlys On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:14:34 +0100 "Kate M Bunting" writes: > Didn't people carry their own cutlery (rather than expect it to be > supplied when they ate out)? > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 10:30:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53EUQEQ004105 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53ETWuI022650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:29:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53ETT4B076921; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:29:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f31.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53ETMcr076781 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:29:17 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.213 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:29:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.213] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200506031107.j53B6v7N077178@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:29:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2005 14:29:17.0593 (UTC) FILETIME=[9FAF5890:01C56848] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Ooh, shoes, (was: Costuming myths (just for fun...) ) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Chris Laning >P.S. Let's not forget "pointy toed shoes with points so long they >have to be fastened with chains to the knees so the wearer doesn't >trip over them" That's a personal favorite. Mind you, I can't find anything to discount the possibility that SOMEONE did it once, and people just kept repeating it, but I doubt it. If nothing else, the laws restricting the length of shoes to social rank would pretty much dictate that the only people who could be wearing shoes with points THAT long would be royalty. The earliest reference I can find so far is is Ranulf Higden's Polychronicon, which was translated into English in 1387, and only actually published in 1432. I can't find the original by the Caxton version has the chains story on a section about Queen Anne, so may have been a bit of a Ricardian slam (1387 was the point of the first real attempt to oust Richard 2). I need to track down the original, since I find it very odd that Ranulf Higden, who died in 1364, would have written anything about Anne of Bohemia, but there it is :) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 10:49:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53EnpXU004289 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53En5jj024478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:49:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53ElmQr088821; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53Ekiv7088003 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:47:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc73.asp.att.net[204.127.197.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050603144639015009ch1se>; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:46:39 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.111; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:46:38 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:46:38 +0000 Message-Id: <060320051446.362.42A06D4E0006A9A70000016A22073007930809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to vaugely recall that we had a discussion regarding the mystery object on a saint's (monk's?) belt. Might that be his cutlery? -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I've been studying medieval English noble households of late--everyone, > regardless of rank or place, brought their own knife to the table. It was > expected to be clean, as anything less was extremely bad manners. > Apparently spoons were supplied. > > I've yet to find a picture of an eating knife though. Anyone have any > references? > > Arlys > > On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:14:34 +0100 "Kate M Bunting" > writes: > > Didn't people carry their own cutlery (rather than expect it to be > > supplied when they ate out)? > > > > Kate Bunting > > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 10:57:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53EvCZh004385 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:57:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53EtFln025187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:55:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53EtE4I094649; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:55:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53EtBsi094555 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:55:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 37380 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2005 14:55:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QHThEu5xs2kClh54VfMYLj6r1wU/bcAew6pnRkjQbddPvh0MKeNK+kLyLzRTmAZjab/2r3i5Kl5acFJbqLIaQ1CXCAbV/cQQrgRVzMSR3MgPgzViOTh6CDUVVnaChlaQ98nMXl5FZXUwEDPhuVk7e+hulj1VE3dVPp4NLxhOen8= ; Message-ID: <20050603145505.37378.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 07:55:05 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:55:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506030123.j531N1rM023429@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to remember some of the ladies on the 18c llste experimenting with not washing thier hair for long periods of time. (To me that's longer than 2 days) They noted that just what you said happened. After the first few days,or being 20-21st century hair that craved washing every few days, it reverted to earlier period hair and was not so.. greasy? as one might expect. I my self have never lasted beyond 2-days without my scalp itching. But I remember ladies in my youth (1950's and60's) only getting their hair "done" at the beauty shop once a week, and not washing it inbetween. And some of the black ladies I work with look at me as if I'm crazy when I say how frequently I was my hair. They only wash theirs once a week Mia in Charlotte, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 11:24:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53FORnh004544 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:24:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53FNPvM027992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:23:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53FNJx7015065; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:23:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f5.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53FNDBp014931 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:23:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:23:08 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.213 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:23:08 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.213] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200506030435.j534ZPhq017101@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:23:08 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2005 15:23:08.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[254C0AA0:01C56850] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Guns (was: on the influence of weapons use and pockets) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "E House" Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: on the influence of weapons use and pockets >>From: "Marc Carlson" >>In Henry VIII's armory there is reputedly a revolver that is very similar >>to the Colt pattern in design and breech loading weapons designed for >>paper cartridges. Some things just are ahead of their time and so are so >>atypical that they probably shouldn't be used to represent the norm of a >>period. >I would REALLY love to know more about this--can you give me any key words >or point me towards any resources? I'm still trying to track down the Henry VIII reference, however just off the top of my head, Ian Hogg's _Illustrated encyclopedia of firearms_ makes reference to the breechloaders ("...two carbines and two shield pistols made for Henry VIII. The carbines used a trap-door at the rear of the barrel, which could be lifted and an iron tube, charged with powder and ball, inserted [Why was I thinking paper? Sorry about that.] Ignition was by wheel-lock through a vent incorporated in the tube. The shield pistols used a similar loading system but were matchlocks -- and that itself is remarkable, for only one other specimen of a matchlock pistol is known. But in spite of the excellent workmanship for their time, the sealing of the breeches left a lot to be desired." (page 34. There is a phot of a 16th century German breech loading pistol on the facing page). There is no text on the revolver, although there is a photo of a Venetian pepperbox, c.1550 and a German snaphaunce - looks like a carbine, with a revolving chamber on page 40. In Blackmore’s _Guns and Rifles of the world_, pictures 547-563 show a number of revolvers before 1600, and more before 1700. Specifically (and removing the multiple barrel weapons): 547 Italian c1600 5 chambered cylinder. Palazzo Ducale, Venice. 33.4 in carrel. 1.58 in. cal. 559 German c1600 6 chambered cylinder carbine matchlock, Tower of London (no. XII-471) .35 cal. 560 German (Nurmeberg) 1597 8 chambered cylinder Tojhusmuseet, Copenhagen (No. B 294) .42 Cal (I think this is the same one as in the Hogg photo mentioned above). 561 German (Nurmeberg) c1600 8 chambered cylinder Tojhusmuseet, Copenhagen (No. B 295) .4 Cal 562 German, c1600 8 chambered cylinder. Royal Scottish Museum, Edinburgh (no. 1876.29.22) .4 cal. 563 Pistol carbine with 6 chanbered cylinder c1600 German. Kremlin, Moscow (no. 8352) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 11:34:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53FYimn004602 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:34:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53FY18K029025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53FY0hl023305; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:34:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53FXs9x023219 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:33:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20979 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:51:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:51:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050603002338.025fd770@mail.frys.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > Davenport says, in her costume book, that, according to a garment > supposedly worn my Elizabeth I and which is in the Elizabeth Day > McCormick collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, Elizabeth I was > the size of a ten-year-old American girl. Sounds like "supposedly" is the key word here. There are many anecdotal references to Elizabeth's tallness. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 11:55:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53FtpwL004720 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53Fso4K031087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53Fsmwu038344; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:54:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from courageux.concentric.com (courageux.concentric.com [207.155.248.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53FsiCa038290 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:54:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by courageux.concentric.com id LAA02055; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:54:39 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506031554.LAA02055@courageux.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:54:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506030205.j5324xBk045962@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j53FsiCa038290 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] powdered hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think we could say the practice continued to 20th century. Does anyone remember the spray shampoo called Psssssst? Catchy jingle said it wasn't a dry or wet shampoo but that you just spray and brush. I think it was aerosolized powder. Was better than oily hair but got gucky. Not nearly as gucky as talcum powder I tried instead . ---- wrote: > Depending on what the powder was, and considering this was the 17thC (1662 > you see natural hair colours in wigs and hair styles, I haven't seen > powdered, has anyone else?) it could be for oilyness. > > I have a few annuals from the start of the 20thC that advocate using orris > root powder as a dry hair bath. As far as I know that is an old practice > and may well have been in practice in the 17thC. > > I used powder to damp down the effects of oily hair as a teen. I was washing > my hair every 2nd day as it was. Don't have that issue now funnily enough;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 11:57:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53FvnEp004735 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:57:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53Fv386031354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53Fv2HA040129; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:57:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81606.mail.yahoo.com (web81606.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.123]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53Fux4D039988 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:56:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from valkyerie@sbcglobal.net) Message-ID: <20050603155654.84314.qmail@web81606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [199.217.251.186] by web81606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:56:54 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:56:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Rachel Hillen To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Brocade loops X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks to everyone who offered advice. After a little trial and error I went with the alternative to turning it out. I folded the outer edges in, then folded it in half. I will keep the other methods in mind for future reference though. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 12:08:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53G8ra0004823 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:08:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53G7wcM032687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53G7uuU048646; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:07:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from courageux.concentric.com (courageux.concentric.com [207.155.248.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53G7pkK048567 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:07:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by courageux.concentric.com id MAA15860; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:07:50 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506031607.MAA15860@courageux.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:07:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506030435.j534ZPhq017101@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j53G7pkK048567 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] first bras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ---- wrote:> > > Marie Tucek's 1893 bust supporter is commonly called the first bra: > > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/1893braMTucek494397.gif > > Yup, looks like a bra, all right. Now I'm mad at the so-called histories I'd > read that don't include it. Has anyone heard the story that the first modern cantilevered bra was developed by Howard Hughes for Jane Russell? Who really designed that bra? Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 12:29:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53GTe8l004996 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:29:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53GSN48034906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:28:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53GS2aL063852; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:28:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53GRKEI063335 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:27:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21506 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:45:02 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:45:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered hair In-Reply-To: <200506031554.LAA02055@courageux.concentric.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Julie wrote: > I think we could say the practice continued to 20th century. Does > anyone remember the spray shampoo called Psssssst? Catchy jingle said > it wasn't a dry or wet shampoo but that you just spray and brush.... Aaaaggghh! Earworm! Get it out! Psssssst. There's something new! Psssssst. Instant spray shampoo! Clairol freshens your hair instantly With P-s-s-s-s-s-s-t! Aaaaauuuuggghhh! --Robin who used it...once _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 12:30:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53GU5tG005006 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:30:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53GTFl7035030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:29:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53GT7YM064906; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:29:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53GSv7g064667 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 99167 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2005 16:28:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2005 16:28:51 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050603172254.014df068@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 17:26:46 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] first bras In-Reply-To: <200506031607.MAA15860@courageux.concentric.com> References: <200506030435.j534ZPhq017101@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:07 03/06/2005 -0700, you wrote: >---- wrote:> > > > > Marie Tucek's 1893 bust supporter is commonly called the first bra: > > > http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/1893braMTucek494397.gif > > > > Yup, looks like a bra, all right. Now I'm mad at the so-called > histories I'd > > read that don't include it. > >Has anyone heard the story that the first modern cantilevered bra was >developed by Howard Hughes for Jane Russell? Who really designed that bra? >Julie I saw an interview with Jane Russell, in which she explained about the bra. Apparently, there was a lot of cleavage, and her nipples poked out. The censor would only pass the cleavage with no nipples, so Hughes designed and had made a bra that hid the nipples. However, it was extremely uncomfortable and so Miss Russell wore her own bra, and tucked - she said tissues but I guess that early it might not have been - something inside to hide them. Hughes never knew!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 12:39:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53GdcEc005042 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53Gcjhs035850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:38:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53GcWbH071567; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:38:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from fall-curlleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net (fall-curlleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53Gc9Iv071261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:38:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([207.69.195.63]) by fall-curlleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #4) id 1DeF7J-0007ws-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:33:53 -0400 Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DeF7J-0000W4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:33:53 -0400 Message-ID: <42A0867A.4000608@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:34:02 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pockets-maybe why they didn't need them so much in men's pants. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One of my favorite stories: Janet Arnold quotes John Bulwer (in POF) in his book Anthropometamophosis: Man Transformed or the Artificial Changeling (1653). He wrote: "...A Prisoner..who being to go before the Judge for a certain cause he was accused of, it being at the time when the Law was in force against weary Bayes stuffed in their Breeches, and he then having stuffed his breeches very full, the Judges told him that he did weare his breeches contrary to the Law: who began to excuse himself of the offense, and endeavoring by little and little to discharge himself of that which he did weare within them, he drew out of breeches a pair of Sheets, two TableCloaths, 10 Napkins, foure Shirts a Brush a Clasp, and a Combe, Night-camps and other things of use saying (all the Hall being strewed with this furniture)) your Highnesse may understand that because I have not safer a store-house, these pockets do serve me of a roome to lay my goods in, and though it be a straight prison, yet it is a store-house big enough for them, for I have many things more of value yet within it. And so his discharge was accepted and well laughed at, and they commanded him that he should not alter the furniture of his store-house, but that he should rid the Hall of his stuffe, and keep them as it pleased him." Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 12:45:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53GjRQs005073 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:45:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53GiZpf036532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:44:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53GiWWV076307; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:44:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52809.mail.yahoo.com (web52809.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j53GiT21076191 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:44:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 1671 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jun 2005 16:44:23 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=mETFRb/lCGjq10ZuQlcnyTu+KRleqj/zm/5w7ls1R28P8FaNeWJF+Qe13FimK8lG0c7fzbNisSYdfkDzAbCcXJ9ScdisgvlWK+5dJyoSx57M5/b1rB0slgENoABmA3gygb4FymFV22G3wm7uecHbyABhJ9zif4O0eeHzXiaQBYo= ; Message-ID: <20050603164423.1669.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:44:23 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:44:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered hair To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200506031554.LAA02055@courageux.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My partner worked in her family's drug store in Buffalo, NY during this era, and she loves to tell the story about a customer who came in and asked, "Excuse me, but do you sell piss?" "I beg your pardon?" "Do you sell piss?" "Uh, ma'am, what would you use it for?!" She was, of course, looking for Pssssst -- I remember my sisters using it, a white aerosol bottle with a purple and browl swirly swoosh around it. KP Julie wrote: I think we could say the practice continued to 20th century. Does anyone remember the spray shampoo called Psssssst? Catchy jingle said it wasn't a dry or wet shampoo but that you just spray and brush. I think it was aerosolized powder. Was better than oily hair but got gucky. Not nearly as gucky as talcum powder I tried instead . ---- wrote: > Depending on what the powder was, and considering this was the 17thC (1662 > you see natural hair colours in wigs and hair styles, I haven't seen > powdered, has anyone else?) it could be for oilyness. > > I have a few annuals from the start of the 20thC that advocate using orris > root powder as a dry hair bath. As far as I know that is an old practice > and may well have been in practice in the 17thC. > > I used powder to damp down the effects of oily hair as a teen. I was washing > my hair every 2nd day as it was. Don't have that issue now funnily enough;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 13:02:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53H2Vks005172 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:02:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53Gw0IH037996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:58:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53GvvdU086515; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail12.mdx.safepages.com (mail12.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.242]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53GvrXa086468 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 856A7B84F; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:57:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.3.184.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.3.184]) by mail12.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 85962B870 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:57:52 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <02cc01c5685d$91696d60$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:58:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/910/Fri Jun 3 10:05:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/910/Fri Jun 3 10:05:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> Davenport says, in her costume book, that, according to a garment >> supposedly worn my Elizabeth I and which is in the Elizabeth Day >> McCormick collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, Elizabeth I was >> the size of a ten-year-old American girl. > > Sounds like "supposedly" is the key word here. There are many anecdotal > references to Elizabeth's tallness. Or perhaps she wore it when she was, you know, ten years old. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 13:06:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53H62jE005193 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:06:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53H0eJN038339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:00:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53H0bCe088747; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:00:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53H0WM7088660 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:00:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21843 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:18:12 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:18:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths In-Reply-To: <20050603145505.37378.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/910/Fri Jun 3 10:05:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/910/Fri Jun 3 10:05:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Mia Dappert wrote: > I seem to remember some of the ladies on the 18c llste experimenting > with not washing thier hair for long periods of time. (To me that's > longer than 2 days) They noted that just what you said happened. > After the first few days,or being 20-21st century hair that craved > washing every few days, it reverted to earlier period hair and was not > so.. greasy? as one might expect. We had a similar discussion on this list in May 2000, in which several people on this list described their switch to a non-shampoo method of hair care. Teddy, who has beautiful long hair (or did at the time, at least; no idea what he's got now) noted that he had not washed his hair for four years. I tried it myself shortly afterward; my adjustment period was about three weeks. Since then I have washed my hair perhaps once or twice a year, when my eczema springs up and I need to use a medicated shampoo on my scalp. That doesn't mean I don't *clean* my hair, I just don't wash it -- I brush it thoroughly every day (and clean my brushes), and rinse periodically with an infusion from herbs from my garden. Anyone who has seen me in the last four years can testify as to the quality and attractiveness of my hair. I must say it's far more manageable than it ever was before. It's definitely not greasy. Interestingly, although I used to have very oily hair, it's now normal-leaning-to-dry. > I my self have never lasted beyond 2-days without my scalp itching. > But I remember ladies in my youth (1950's and60's) only getting their > hair "done" at the beauty shop once a week, and not washing it > inbetween. I was already at a once-a-week schedule before I started the no-shampoo method; my hair is so long it takes a day to dry, so no way I was going to wash it every other day! Once a week was pretty standard when I was a kid in the 1960s; I remember the marketing push for more frequent washing, including the jingle (eek! another earworm!) for "Everynight Shampoo" that had the audacity to call itself "natural." Huh? For that matter, the custom of regular washing with shampoo is less than 100 years old -- another marketing push. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 14:10:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53IAd90005591 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:10:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53I9ZYK046498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53I9UX4041339; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:09:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53I9P4m041225 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:09:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 13:09:19 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 13:09:09 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just don't wash it -- I brush it thoroughly every day (and clean my brushes), and rinse periodically with an infusion from herbs from my garden. --Robin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. Care to share your recipie :)? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 14:23:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53INeGS005688 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:23:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53ILsZq047926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53ILqps050283; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:21:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53ILmGS050199 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:21:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.205.146 ([204.127.205.146]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050603182142012000u1vge>; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:21:42 +0000 Received: from [216.204.33.43] by 204.127.205.146; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:21:41 +0000 From: lauren.walker@comcast.net To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:21:41 +0000 Message-Id: <060320051821.2066.42A09FB5000871000000081222007347489D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: bGF1cmVuLndhbGtlckBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO More on hair: I, too remember when once a week was regarded as normal for hair washing, and the ad campaigns to encourage more frequent washage. But then, my parents still make fun of me for taking a shower every single day. I have coarse, thick, wavy hair, and it gets very dry and brittle. A couple of years ago, in desperation, I remembered that it had been healthier when I washed it once a week, so now I wash it no more than once a week -- I rinse it with water in hot water a couple of times a week in summer or if I'm working out a lot, and of course there's the hair dye once every four weeks (so sue me; it went gray when I was 29 and I wasn't ready; now I'm not prepared to wear a veil for six months to get past the Pepe Le Pew/Susan Sontag stage). In the summer I always try to have it as dirty as possible for re-enactor events because when it is dirty, it stays up much better. It's also much more 19th-century wavy and lush if I am getting a lot of exercise -- as my pals a! t the dojo used to say, there's nothing for beautiful hair like sweat. Lauren _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 14:28:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53ISXTB005724 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:28:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53IRj6X048529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:27:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53IRdMu054286; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:27:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53IR9YO053929 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:27:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j53IR628021559 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:27:06 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.95.221] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-95-221.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.95.221]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j53IR6uj109590 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:27:08 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050603102404.03503ff0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:26:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <02cc01c5685d$91696d60$0400a8c0@compaqub> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>Davenport says, in her costume book, that, according to a garment >>>supposedly worn my Elizabeth I and which is in the Elizabeth Day >>>McCormick collection in the Boston Fine Arts Museum, Elizabeth I was >>>the size of a ten-year-old American girl. >>Sounds like "supposedly" is the key word here. There are many anecdotal >>references to Elizabeth's tallness. And many surviving garments supposedly worn by her. >Or perhaps she wore it when she was, you know, ten years old. It's one of those almost-Jacobean embroidered jackets, so the dates are wrong for that. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 14:45:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53IjBd6005838 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:45:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53IiOMB050004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:44:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53IiMml066895; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53IiKi8066830 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:44:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22769 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:02:03 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:02:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Catherine Kinsey wrote: > I just don't wash it -- I brush > it thoroughly every day (and clean my brushes), and rinse periodically > with an infusion from herbs from my garden. > --Robin > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. > > Care to share your recipie :)? I use mostly rosemary, which I grow in the summer and then dry for use throughout the year. Boil water, steep the rosemary in it along with some whole cloves and maybe a crushed cinnamon stick, for nice scent. When it's cooled down a bit and is quite dark, pour through a strainer. (You can use it right away, or let it cool and then heat it a bit in the microwave before using.) I put a large bowl in the sink and pour the rinse from a pitcher over my head and into the bowl; comb thoroughly, then pour the rinse back into the pitcher and repeat a couple of times to saturate my hair thoroughly. I might also dilute it a bit with warm water for the second or third pourings, and rinse with additional warm water if I need. Rinsing your hair with warm water when you shower is probably enough to keep the hair fresh, but I don't like having wet hair every time I shower, because it takes so long to dry. Several people described other herb combinations when we discussed this before; should be in the archives (May 2000, several subject lines). Rosemary is recommended for reducing oil. I have found lemon to be too astringent; I don't like the feel on my hair. Chamomile was suggested, too, but if you're allergic to ragweed (as I am), avoid it; it's cross-reactive. Same for chamomile tea if you have hay fever. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 15:01:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53J1Frs005946 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:01:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53J0Cgi051975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:00:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53J0BaM078285; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:00:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53J06Hd078211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:00:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:60860 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DeH4P-0000eW-4E for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 14:39:05 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.86 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1509.198.93.211.86.1117823942.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:39:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.86 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <009501c5682d$0ff775e0$0301010a@michaela> References: <42A02DC5.1060202@pcez.com> <009501c5682d$0ff775e0$0301010a@michaela> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looks to me like you're going to need a huge set of arms as well, don't you think? LOL > http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183034.html > (below her pouch) > http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183035.html > (behind her pouch) > http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183037.html > (ditto) > http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183127.html > (beside her pouch hanging near her hem) > http://inky.library.yale.edu/medwomen/04183128.html > (obcsured by her pouch) > http://frazzledfrau.glittersweet.com/zwimmer.htm > There are probably more, these were the most likely looking "German" > women I could find, but my understanding of place names is ever so much > better than when I made those links I'm sure I will be doing a fair bit > of editing later;) > > > Someone on my friends list on Livejournal had also pointed out quite > coincidentally extant items that were these girdles and objects. So I > made an update in my own journal: > http://www.livejournal.com/users/pinkdiamond/322146.html > > I have many images from bildindex of the extant items not pointed to in > my journal. > It took some hunting, and I cannot remember which museums I found them > all in. > > I'm hoping to eventually get a set made or learn somehow to cast my own. > > So it is possibly a knife and fork set worn in a "lederfuttel." I'm > guessing fork rather than spoon for the shape and possibly the status. > > I did see one in a portrait that is lurking somewhere in my files as > well... > > > Anyway, they are just another funky accessory I'm trying to organise for > my complete wardrobe of a 1570s German woman;) Hats, extra snuggly > layers, an apron, pouch and possibly shoes.. and definitely the cutlery > set;) > > michaela de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 2/06/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 16:57:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j53KvTQX006537 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:57:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j53KtJJe064285 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:55:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53Kt7ZD059745; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:55:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from courageux.concentric.com (courageux.concentric.com [207.155.248.177]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j53KsuvI059561 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:55:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by courageux.concentric.com id QAA07440; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:54:49 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506032054.QAA07440@courageux.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 13:54:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506031800.j53I0kww035015@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j53KsuvI059561 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] powdered hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, earworm indeed! What was that, 30+ years ago yet I remember their jingle. How's that for advertising? Is there anything comprable in modern times? (Earworm alert! ) Pssssst it's not a dry shampoo, oh no Pssssst it's not a wet shampoo, oh no Spray and brush is all you do - then go 'cause Clairol freshens your hair instantly...etc. ---- wrote: > > > I think we could say the practice continued to 20th century. Does > > anyone remember the spray shampoo called Psssssst? Catchy jingle said > > it wasn't a dry or wet shampoo but that you just spray and brush.... > > Aaaaggghh! Earworm! Get it out! > > Psssssst. There's something new! > Psssssst. Instant spray shampoo! > Clairol freshens your hair instantly > With P-s-s-s-s-s-s-t! > > Aaaaauuuuggghhh! > > --Robin > who used it...once _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 20:52:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j540q82q007591 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j540pDQb087636 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:51:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j540oZDw009326; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:51:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j540nKXv008544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:50:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5429MHn019096 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:09:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] powdered hair Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:49:14 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506031554.LAA02055@courageux.concentric.com> In-Reply-To: <200506031554.LAA02055@courageux.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506032049.14481.cathy@thyrsus.com> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 11:54 am, Julie wrote: > I think we could say the practice continued to 20th century. Does anyone > remember the spray shampoo called Psssssst? Catchy jingle said it wasn't a > dry or wet shampoo but that you just spray and brush. They still sell it; I've seen it in drug stores. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 20:57:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j540vCPV007630 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:57:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j540u4O0087970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:56:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j540tRlY012085; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j540sA92011364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:55:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j542EC7x019343 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:14:12 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:54:04 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506032054.04383.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 9:21 am, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > On the other hand I remember reading in a source (can't remember which > one, I've read so many!) that Queen E was 5'7" tall. At one point she was > talking to a visiting dignitary while walking thru a palace and made the > joke that she was 'as big as a door'. While we're comparing notes, I vaguely remember reading that measurements of her effigy measured about 5 ft 3 or 4. > While Elizabethan doors might have > been somewhat smaller than later doors, they were still at least 6 feet > tall. I think that the combination of being somewhat tall with an tall > elaborate hairstyle and the wide farthingale and sleeves might have made > her quite literally as big as an average door. Or at least as *wide.* My recollection is that the average door--as opposed to the front doors of a cathedral or public building--was quite narrow at least through the 18th century. [snip] > > P.S. As a ten year old American girl I was well over 5 feet tall...... As a 10-year old American girl, I was barely 5 ft 1--as tall as I am now. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 20:57:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j540vchL007635 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j540uTJZ088006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j540uQiC012702; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:56:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j540uMkC012619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j542GOgE019366 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:16:24 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Ooh, shoes, (was: Costuming myths (just for fun...) ) Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:56:16 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506032056.16412.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 10:29 am, Marc Carlson wrote: > >From: Chris Laning > >P.S. Let's not forget "pointy toed shoes with points so long they > >have to be fastened with chains to the knees so the wearer doesn't > >trip over them" > > That's a personal favorite. Mind you, I can't find anything to discount > the possibility that SOMEONE did it once, and people just kept repeating > it, but I doubt it. If nothing else, the laws restricting the length of > shoes to social rank would pretty much dictate that the only people who > could be wearing shoes with points THAT long would be royalty. Agreed. I suspect that, if anyone did do it, it would be on par for rarity with the model who zipped herself into (designer) blue jeans that were so tight she could not bend at the hips sufficiently to sit down, and had to get to her photo shoot lying down across the back seat of a cab. (Or is that an urban legend?) :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 21:45:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j541jUY8007844 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:45:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j541ii2v092777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:44:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j541igki037709; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:44:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j541icsR037643 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:44:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j541iWP17790 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:44:32 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:47:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] exams X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I passed my prelim exams and am now a real doctoral candidate. woohoo!!!!! This is a question I was asked and kinda stumped me. Apparently I answered ok.... "What did Neanderthal's wear?" :D Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 22:51:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j542poGO008205 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:51:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j542oiC3097826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:50:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j542ofUA068929; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:50:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.53]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j542ocqS068827 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:50:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 87914 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2005 02:50:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ahEu3FtNbNcRRG1eiFbBf3VkoNykiEn8Xj1cQFimwvy3R6vOUB0ySN/RcdIsf3/YSq7ZLChMyc6GCx/+UbdPjggTNSOPl3c7PBNeaniwggZcN4voyarIySI62B/rof+GNsk6QUtIYvYtgTLw5Nd06A6hMhMB5c7o6X981Vhl3NM= ; Message-ID: <20050604025032.87912.qmail@web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 19:50:32 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:50:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might want to consider this info before dumping orris root on your head: "Iris florentina (orris root): problems. Angella Anderson, Mar 1994, herblist Sender: "Medicinal and Aromatic Plants discussion list" From: Angella Anderson Subject: Re: orris root >> Question: what is orris root? > Orris root is the root of Iris florentina. When ground it is used as a fixative in perfurmes & potpourris. You usually sprinkle some of the oil on the orris & stir it together to cover it with the scent. Then you add it to the potpourri. Orris root is also ****highly allergenic***. Alot of people are allergic to orris root. But I have been told that many manufacturers are now using new fixatives for fragrances. I can only use a couple different kinds of make-up such as Clinique, and others that are not available in my area and are much more expensive than Clinique!! I break out in hives or have sneezing fits if get too much exposure at one time!!" Guess you should try this very judiciously. Melody --- Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Jun 2005, Chris Laning wrote: > > > At 10:19 AM +1200 6/3/05, michaela wrote: > > > > > >"If the hair is still oily and lies flat on the > head, sprinkle a little > > >powdered orris-root on the hair, then brush it > out thoroughly. This will > > >make the hair soft and fluffy, will polish and > gloss it, and the odour from > > >the orris-root is delightfully refreshing and > pleasant." > > > > > Something scented would be nice. Apparently orris > root powder is sold at > craft stores, for potpourris. I'm going to check it > out. > > > --Robin > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 23:01:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5430v5V008251 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j542xvKI098461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:59:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j542xuCa073024; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:59:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j542xsFu072961 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHJ00BCDHMNOD@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.31] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.174.217]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:59:48 -0400 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:59:48 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: spiders..Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) To: Historical Costume Message-id: <3673fd23675c1a.3675c1a3673fd2@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Same here - however I *like* a spider (and web) in my tent. They eat all of the flying insects that somehow are attracted to me like kids to candy. Katheryne who is alergic to insect stings > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "otsisto" > >I had been given the name Spider Woman or Starspider by an elder because of my unique ability to attract spiders especially but not exclusively when out doors. Five minutes after I have my tent up there will be at least one spider with their web up inside it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 23:17:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j543HEhW008342 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j543GS2j000189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543GRgf081300; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543GOna081203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:16:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j544aQeG021204 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:36:27 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:16:17 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <060320051821.2066.42A09FB5000871000000081222007347489D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <060320051821.2066.42A09FB5000871000000081222007347489D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506032316.18106.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 2:21 pm, lauren.walker@comcast.net wrote: > More on hair: I, too remember when once a week was regarded as normal for > hair washing, and the ad campaigns to encourage more frequent washage. I never went in for daily washing, even when it was popular--my hair became too hard to manage, that way. But before I was 40 or so, my hair was prone to get very greasy, so I usually washed it several times a week. Now, my hair is more fragile and much drier, so I wash it much less. However, my scalp gets sebum deposits like crazy if I don't wash at least my scalp at least once every other week. (Then my scalp becomes very itchy, as someone else on the list described.) Of course, if you use any detergent on your scalp, some of it will end up on your hair, but I don't focus on putting the shampoo on my hair anymore, just on my scalp--and my hair seems to be better off for it. [snip] >It's also much more 19th-century wavy and lush if I am getting a > lot of exercise -- as my pals a! t the dojo used to say, there's nothing > for beautiful hair like sweat. Not for me. Sweat does nothing for my hair but make it look stringy and encouraging the sebum to build up on my scalp even faster. (Humidity, on the other hand, as from humid weather or light rain, does make my hair wavier.) :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 23:23:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j543NLVt008383 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:23:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j543MhDI000767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:22:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543Mga4084340; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:22:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j543MdEM084270 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69107 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2005 03:22:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4X8ztU3OPiNmCbEjv+7Av7H6R3ufP6gWCHhRZbwo2XjqcaYKHSitFB6rakz8vVJQe8mWrKNCjR5619EwNGlEgMl2akBQVev0OgUGmzVmw67cHMI80gMedVQbkr46r3splQ8CbH/FNXPX5akK7774rsmC/Uq/6+BD363AQiaF/gM= ; Message-ID: <20050604032233.69105.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:22:33 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes /dry shampoos To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <035f01c567fc$07123360$2e159b04@HELENPINTO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ah yes...I remember gritty,flea powder consistency,(now i can appreciate what the cat went thru) I remember the improved product "Psssssst".. arasol powder dry shampoo. My mom always was cutting edge... melody --- Helen Pinto wrote: > Michaela wrote > >>"If the hair is still oily and lies flat on the > head, sprinkle a little > >>powdered orris-root on the hair, then brush it out > thoroughly. This will > >>make the hair soft and fluffy, will polish and > gloss it, and the odour > >>from > >>the orris-root is delightfully refreshing and > pleasant." > Then Chris wrote > > Anyone else old enough to remember using cornmeal > for this? I remember my > > mom doing this sort of "dry shampoo" treatment on > me a few times when I > > was quite young. > > -- > > How about something called "Minipoo", as in "when > you can't shampoo, > minipoo". It came in a shaker can, sort of like > grated parmesan cheese, and > you shook it onto your hair, let it sit a while, > then brushed it out. This > was back in the late 50s/early 60's. I don't > remember how successful a > product it was, but I do remember getting dosed with > it in the winter or > when I was sick. > -Helen/Aidan > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 23:34:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j543YElT008416 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:34:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j543XaO1001552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:33:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543XZq5089297; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:33:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543XUTX089275 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:33:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.154] (pm5-154.eos.net [205.133.149.154]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j543XQwO029045 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:33:27 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:25:56 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200506031107.j53B6v7M077178@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about -- 1) You can't run or climb in long skirts. and of course: 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. Which reminds me ... the latter has been discussed numerous times here on the list, of course. When the Antonio Banderas Zorro movie came out, someone on this list actually asked if you could "really" fence in a corset like Catherine Zeta Jones. Ha ha! If that person is still on the list, I don't mean to embarrass you. It was just so funny. The actress was fencing in a corset, about 50 times larger than life, but the person's idea that it was impossible couldn't overcome the evidence of his/her own eyes! She was actually fencing in a corset, so yes, it could be done. Was it done often? Beats me! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 3 23:55:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j543t20r008472 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:55:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j543qsDj002830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:52:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543qoWR098034; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543qmRH098008 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:52:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-scotia.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DePiJ-0003G7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:52:47 -0400 Message-ID: <42A12599.1070200@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 20:52:57 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] exams References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whatever was fashionable of course! Congratulations! Sg Althea Turner wrote: > Well, I passed my prelim exams and am now a real doctoral candidate. > woohoo!!!!! > > This is a question I was asked and kinda stumped me. Apparently I > answered ok.... > "What did Neanderthal's wear?" > > : _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 00:15:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j544FP5A008558 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:15:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j544EiJI004915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j544Eh6Y009285; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:14:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j544EdSi009200 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:14:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHJ00HXAL41R4@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 00:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.31] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.174.217]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Sat, 04 Jun 2005 00:14:34 -0400 Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 00:14:34 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net To: Historical Costume Message-id: <32593c332548c2.32548c232593c3@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am trying to re-furbish my mother's wedding headpiece/ crown. However it has been ravaged by 42 years of neglect. It is in amazingly good condition - however the stiffener (buckram?) has gone and it needs to be replaced. This is the item that is on the 'back' of the headpiece, that protects the beadwork stitching from damage. All I need is a piece 3 1/2" wide by 16" long (I've included 'fudge factor' ) I carefully detached the old piece and can use it as a template for the new one. The old piece seemed to have a sorta slipery/ satin-y side out and a webbing/ fiberous type stuff against the stiching. It also appears to be glued (pasted) on. My local fabric stores don't carry anything like this, the only thing closest is either iron-on fusing or heavy duck/ canvas. Can anyone help me here? The wedding is July 10th and I would like to get all of the sewing done by the end of June. Thanks Katheryne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 00:48:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j544mmKL008654 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:48:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j544mBs6007788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j544m9tn024389; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:48:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j544m6wT024338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:48:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j546892w022365 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:08:09 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] exams Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:47:59 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506040048.00135.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 9:47 pm, Althea Turner wrote: > Well, I passed my prelim exams and am now a real doctoral candidate. > woohoo!!!!! Excellent! Congratulations. > > This is a question I was asked and kinda stumped me. Apparently I > answered ok.... > "What did Neanderthal's wear?" Herbert Norris actually tried to answer this one in "Ancient European Costume and Fashion" or whatever that volume was called. Considering he had no real information, the answer wasn't bad. It deserved points for moxie, at least. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 01:05:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5455Af0008709 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 01:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5454RUH009188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5454MB1031372; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:04:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5454JIK031303 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:04:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 76182 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2005 05:04:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BNRE9t31cU0x0H1D9pkTZxkVzKtbwBRBrTrhCdmTn8dpU62CvTqieZQN7V/PcxY1PxNjv3VwSDGhgr6tjMW0jv1Ix6cp2mfW8k+cstKCQe3Qr1sPnNArDHJtxqxKBHkB9BZxBKVoQVF71egL8QHOxAR7gjsCAFiEI5w+V2cR4D4= ; Message-ID: <20050604050413.76180.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.123.225] by web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 22:04:13 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:04:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? try here..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <32593c332548c2.32548c232593c3@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO site with buckram, various hole size: http://dollarfabric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? and here are preformed shapes,maybe one will match yours: http://www.theatrehouse.com/ hope it helps, Melody --- purplkat@optonline.net wrote: > I am trying to re-furbish my mother's wedding > headpiece/ crown. > > However it has been ravaged by 42 years of neglect. > It is in amazingly good condition - however the > stiffener (buckram?) has gone and it needs to be > replaced. > > This is the item that is on the 'back' of the > headpiece, that protects the beadwork stitching from > damage. > > All I need is a piece 3 1/2" wide by 16" long (I've > included 'fudge factor' ) I carefully detached the > old piece and can use it as a template for the new > one. > > The old piece seemed to have a sorta slipery/ > satin-y side out and a webbing/ fiberous type stuff > against the stiching. It also appears to be glued > (pasted) on. > > My local fabric stores don't carry anything like > this, the only thing closest is either iron-on > fusing or heavy duck/ canvas. > > Can anyone help me here? > The wedding is July 10th and I would like to get all > of the sewing done by the end of June. > > Thanks > Katheryne > > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 01:16:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j545GehG008753 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 01:16:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j545Ft96009766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:15:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j545FsZ5036276; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j545Fq1e036264 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B17A1A0B04; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:15:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.189.84.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.189.84]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C4D4EA0A73 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:15:50 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <035501c568c4$ab3baa20$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> <200506032054.04383.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:16:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" >> P.S. As a ten year old American girl I was well over 5 feet tall...... > > As a 10-year old American girl, I was barely 5 ft 1--as tall as I am now. > :-) Well, I was 5'7" at 10, but people do grow at different rates. =} -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 02:02:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5462WaV009141 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:02:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5461ke5013238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:01:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5461jma054620; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:01:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5461gpc054568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 00:01:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j547LfgL023399 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 03:21:45 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:01:31 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050603.081243.-740223.0.penhalion@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050603.081243.-740223.0.penhalion@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200506040201.31632.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 9:12 am, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:41:14 -0400 Catherine Olanich Raymond > > writes: > > Or, perhaps, from behind a pane in his paned slops? At any event, > > I'd love to see the portrait. > > Of course I can't find my copy of 'A Visual History of Costume- 16th > Century' which is where I think I saw the gentleman with the handkerchief > coming out of his pocket. Rats! Aha! However, *I* have a copy of that book too! Let me go track mine down.... Okay, I've looked through the book twice, and the only image I see showing a gentleman with a handkerchief is No. 62. It's identified as a portrait of Sir Nicholas Throckmorton, c. 1562. However, the handkerchief in question is not emerging from a pocket--it's peeping from the mouth of one of those ring-mouthed purses. In this case, the ring has a metal fitting by which it is attached to the gentleman's belt. Ms. Ashelford's caption states as much: "The elaborate purse containing the handkerchief is attached to the belt." (p. 71). I'll grant that it's hard to see what's going on since the purse and slops are both very dark in hue--they look indistinguishably black in this black-and-white photo. However, the ring is visible, and there is a kind of dark fabric bunch under his left hand that might be the bottom of a cloth purse. If you are thinking of a different image of a gentleman with a handkerchief, and find your copy, please let me know what it is! I'd be most curious. > Believe me, in the early part of > Elizabeth's reign, there was enough fullness in men's breeches to hide a > decent sized pocket. I think the portrait may have been of Robert Dudley, > Earl of Leicester....but I can't be sure. I've seen several images of Dudley from the 1570s (which I don't think of as "the early part" of her reign). However, I agree with you that by the 1570s many slops were big enough to conceal a period handgun, let alone a pocket. :-) > If anyone has a copy of the > book handy, you can take a look and let me know if I should keep tearing > my sewing room apart looking for it. See above. [I said:] > > > If it's the kind of surcoat I think you mean (sleeveless, > > full-length, with a > > suggestion of a collar and some fitting through the torso?), I think > > it came > > in toward the end of the first half of her reign--which would put it > > near the 1580s. Elizabeth took the throne in 1558. > > It's a fitted version of the surcoat with sleeves. It's in Queen E's Unl > on page 188. The portrait is of "'Joan Thornbury, Mrs. Hugh Wakeman' > panel painting by Hans Eworth 1566. Sorry, I don't own a copy of QEWU. Next time I have access to a copy, I'll have to look. > She wears what is probably a Flanders > gown and a white linen handkerchief with a tassel on the corner hangs out > of the pocket. Present whereabouts unknown." The placement of the pocket > opening rather far down on the side of the gown would seem to indicate > that it is not a separate article tied around her waist.....but look for > yourself and tell me what you think. Next time I get a chance, I will, thanks. Interestingly, Throckmorton's handkerchief (see my description of that image, above) also has a tassel on the corner. I wonder if that was typical of the handkerchiefs of the well-to-do in period, and if so what the reason for it was. > > Of course, it all depends upon the date of the costumes in the > > portrait. If > > the portrait is late 1570s-early 1580s, I quite agree with you. > > I'm pretty sure that the man's portrait is no later than 1580, and men's > breeches would have been plenty full at that point. 'The Tailor' by > Moroni dated 1570 shows very full breeches on a middle class man (page 4 > Patterns of Fashion) Right. We're in agreement on this point. > and on page 14 there are 4 separate portraits of men > ranging from 1556 thru 1574 all showing paned shops with considerable > fullness. Do you mean Page 14 of Patterns of Fashion? (Flip, flip.) Yes, you're right that there are 4 portraits of men in slops on this page, but all strike me as fairly narrow. In particular, the 1556 pair worn by Prince Carlos do not even seem to be stuffed, and if he had a pocket that contained anything bulkier than a handkerchief, I think it would make an unsightly bulge. In the later three portraits, most of the fullness that they have is concentrated at the very bottom, where the leg enters the slops, which strikes me as an awkward location for a pocket, though I wouldn't want to rule the possibility out without seeing a good reproduction of the garments in question. Speaking of PofF, Item No. 44--1570-80 Woman's Kirtle is the type of thing I hand in mind when you spoke of a "surcoat" above. Since this garment is roughly contemporary with the wider slops, it would not surprise me to find a pocket in such a garment, but Arnold's sketch does not show one in this specimen. Thanks for the citations and your comments. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 06:30:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54AUexV004671 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:30:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54ATn0a040986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:29:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54ATjow062883; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j540gqAk005126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:44:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5422nlf018698 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 22:02:54 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:42:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506032042.41504.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 12:18 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005, Mia Dappert wrote: > > I seem to remember some of the ladies on the 18c llste experimenting > > with not washing thier hair for long periods of time. (To me that's > > longer than 2 days) They noted that just what you said happened. > > After the first few days,or being 20-21st century hair that craved > > washing every few days, it reverted to earlier period hair and was not > > so.. greasy? as one might expect. > > We had a similar discussion on this list in May 2000, in which several > people on this list described their switch to a non-shampoo method of hair > care. Teddy, who has beautiful long hair (or did at the time, at least; no > idea what he's got now) noted that he had not washed his hair for four > years. > > I tried it myself shortly afterward; my adjustment period was about three > weeks. Since then I have washed my hair perhaps once or twice a year, when > my eczema springs up and I need to use a medicated shampoo on my scalp. > That doesn't mean I don't *clean* my hair, I just don't wash it -- I brush > it thoroughly every day (and clean my brushes), and rinse periodically > with an infusion from herbs from my garden. > > Anyone who has seen me in the last four years can testify as to the > quality and attractiveness of my hair. I must say it's far more manageable > than it ever was before. It's definitely not greasy. Interestingly, > although I used to have very oily hair, it's now normal-leaning-to-dry. > > > I my self have never lasted beyond 2-days without my scalp itching. > > But I remember ladies in my youth (1950's and60's) only getting their > > hair "done" at the beauty shop once a week, and not washing it > > inbetween. > > I was already at a once-a-week schedule before I started the no-shampoo > method; my hair is so long it takes a day to dry, so no way I was going to > wash it every other day! Once a week was pretty standard when I was a kid > in the 1960s; I remember the marketing push for more frequent washing, > including the jingle (eek! another earworm!) for "Everynight Shampoo" that > had the audacity to call itself "natural." Huh? > > For that matter, the custom of regular washing with shampoo is less than > 100 years old -- another marketing push. > > --Robin > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 06:31:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54AVT6R004977 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:31:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54AUkTc041270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:30:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54AUjKB063381; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:30:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j541J6ca023689 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLCAMDAS8L9NA for (sender ); Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:18:27 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn76ATuUChmGIhnRLb6gWSM9mszTIJVUmRxg== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUL5VB5T; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 18:17:58 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:15:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Message-ID: <20050603.201512.-673973.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-6,15-21,26-29 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 8:4:200275072 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:54:04 -0400 Catherine Olanich Raymond > While we're comparing notes, I vaguely remember reading that > measurements of her effigy measured about 5 ft 3 or 4. Been there, seen the effigy- it's definitely bigger than 5'3". I have photos of it around here somewhere, but as i didn't sneak a ruler into the shot, there's no way I can prove how big it is. ;-) As a matter of fact, I had the impression that it might have been made larger than life-size.........The dressed effigy has been extensively made over so height taken from that is probably not accurate.....although there's another less famous effigy from Mary I that's largely intact and that height of that one is 5'5".....wasn't Mary said to be the shorter of the two sisters? > Or at least as *wide.* My recollection is that the average door--as > opposed > to the front doors of a cathedral or public building--was quite > narrow at least through the 18th century. They tend to be both shorter and narrower than modern doors- at least the ones I have had the opportunity to walk thru. I have a shot of me standing in front of a door in Shakespeare's Birthplace where even in modern clothes I fill the doorway quite nicely.....did I mention I'm just over 5'7" tall? Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 06:32:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54AW5AF005337 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:32:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54AVRhd041500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54AVRSr063724; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5431vsR074042 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc75.asp.att.net[204.127.197.157]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050604030152014001gm3me>; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 03:01:52 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.111; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:01:52 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] exams Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:01:52 +0000 Message-Id: <060420050301.5631.42A119A000010C91000015FF22064246130809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Skins? -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Well, I passed my prelim exams and am now a real doctoral candidate. > woohoo!!!!! > > This is a question I was asked and kinda stumped me. Apparently I > answered ok.... > "What did Neanderthal's wear?" > > :D > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > Reunite Pangaea! > > It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the > masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth > does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the > people. > - Giordano Bruno > > Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. > - Gunn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 06:32:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54AW85L005381 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54AVX6e041549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54AVWBM063776; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543S9p1086578 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.154] (pm5-154.eos.net [205.133.149.154]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j543S4wO028107 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:28:05 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:20:34 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200506030435.j534ZPhp017101@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re:early bras X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO on 6/3/05 12:35 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com at h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: >> Marie Tucek's 1893 bust supporter is commonly called the first bra: >> http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/1893braMTucek494397.gif Not just the first bra -- the first Wonderbra!! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 06:32:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54AWJIw005475 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54AViEk041670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54AVheE063909; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5459Et8033309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:09:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j546THrJ022650 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:29:18 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes from Pepys Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 01:09:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506022325.14810.cathy@thyrsus.com> <010c01c5680a$acdf6390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <010c01c5680a$acdf6390$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506040109.09184.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 3:05 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > It's an interesting thought. Except for the fact that powder was used by > > both > > sexes, both on wigs and on hair styles that never went anywhere near the > > shoulders (such as the upswept towering women's styles of the 1780s.) > > Powdering hair for men started in 1670-80ies if not earlyer and this time > men had long hair. Perhaps it was just a tradition that started there, and > went on even if the hair got shorter. Right. I remembered that much. > In 18th century boys of the age of 12 had all their hair cut off and they > started to wear wigs. And as they wore these wigs all the time, their own > hair got bad because it was hide away all the time. Same thing happens if > you wear a hat all the time. > Women seldom wore wigs in 18th century, but had the hairstyles made of > their own hair. I'm not sure whether I knew that or not. > But the same thing with the wig and hygiene. It also seldom was washed, and > therefore it was easyer to powder it and fresh it up. Or at least make sure it held its shape. Thanks for the details! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 06:32:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54AWJAr005472 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:32:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54AVbu7041594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54AVbIf063835; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j543k2wZ095065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 21:46:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:50303 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DePbn-0001mc-UT for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 03 Jun 2005 23:46:04 -0400 Received: from 198.93.212.58 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1925.198.93.212.58.1117856767.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:46:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1662 costume notes /dry shampoos From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.58 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <20050604032233.69105.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <035f01c567fc$07123360$2e159b04@HELENPINTO> <20050604032233.69105.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh yeah, All through this thread I was trying to remember the name of Minipoo. I guess we all bought something along those lines at least once, the ads made it seem so easy. I tried the cornmeal thing once too. Kitty > > --- Helen Pinto wrote: > >> Michaela wrote >> >>"If the hair is still oily and lies flat on the >> head, sprinkle a little >> >>powdered orris-root on the hair, then brush it out >> thoroughly. This will >> >>make the hair soft and fluffy, will polish and >> gloss it, and the odour >> >>from >> >>the orris-root is delightfully refreshing and >> pleasant." >> Then Chris wrote >> > Anyone else old enough to remember using cornmeal >> for this? I remember my >> > mom doing this sort of "dry shampoo" treatment on >> me a few times when I >> > was quite young. >> > -- >> >> How about something called "Minipoo", as in "when >> you can't shampoo, >> minipoo". It came in a shaker can, sort of like >> grated parmesan cheese, and >> you shook it onto your hair, let it sit a while, >> then brushed it out. This >> was back in the late 50s/early 60's. I don't >> remember how successful a >> product it was, but I do remember getting dosed with >> it in the winter or >> when I was sick. >> -Helen/Aidan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 06:32:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54AWOIX005520 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 06:32:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54AVluh041690 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54AVlEt063934; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 04:31:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j545NebI039433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j546hig2022855 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:43:44 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 01:23:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> <200506032054.04383.cathy@thyrsus.com> <035501c568c4$ab3baa20$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <035501c568c4$ab3baa20$0400a8c0@compaqub> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506040123.34945.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/911/Fri Jun 3 22:09:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 04 June 2005 1:16 am, E House wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catherine Olanich Raymond" > > >> P.S. As a ten year old American girl I was well over 5 feet tall...... > > > > As a 10-year old American girl, I was barely 5 ft 1--as tall as I am now. > > > > :-) > > Well, I was 5'7" at 10, but people do grow at different rates. =} They sure do. Occasionally, I wished I'd grown a bit faster, but it's way too late to worry about that now! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 07:12:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54BCjJG010973 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:12:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54BBvLk046341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:11:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54BBtGG081387; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:11:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54BBlOl081330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:11:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52D6D8285 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 10005-03 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A6DED801F for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <015101c568f6$22f4f6d0$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> <200506032054.04383.cathy@thyrsus.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:11:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> P.S. As a ten year old American girl I was well over 5 feet tall...... > > As a 10-year old American girl, I was barely 5 ft 1--as tall as I am now. > :-) > I never quite made it to five feet tall--about a quarter inch shy of it! When I started school, I was smaller than my 3 y.o. son is now. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 08:00:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54C0ADS011258 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:00:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54BxJqv048596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:59:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54BxGjj098483; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:59:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu [132.236.56.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54BxD8U098443 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:59:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from bridgett.cornell.edu (rrcs-nys-24-24-31-245.biz.rr.com [24.24.31.245] (may be forged)) by postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j54Bx3UT028113 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050604075412.00bb5d70@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:56:18 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Mari Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] exams In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-PMX-Version: 4.7.0.111621, Antispam-Engine: 2.0.2.0, Antispam-Data: 2005.6.4.9 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Congratulations Althea!! Now, if I could just screw my courage up to try for one. ; / ::hugs:: What wonderful news. Sincerely Mari >Well, I passed my prelim exams and am now a real doctoral candidate. >woohoo!!!!! > >This is a question I was asked and kinda stumped me. Apparently I >answered ok.... >"What did Neanderthal's wear?" > >:D > >Althea Turner Webmaster@vet.cornell.edu Mari Stewart College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 10:04:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54E4UPc012484 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:04:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54E3HBp057085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54E35Zn051977; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j54E32kv051906 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:03:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLDPCYACDYHL2 for (sender ); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:01:58 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn76ATuUChmGIhhnlp4ldGXV3QI8Esy/TodA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUNHJRMS; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:01:09 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:58:11 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Message-ID: <20050604.085811.-7410185.1.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-16,19-25,34-46,56-58,59-32767 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 19:9:1810889141 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:01:31 -0400 Catherine Olanich Raymond > Okay, I've looked through the book twice, and the only image I see > showing a > gentleman with a handkerchief is No. 62. It's identified as a > portrait of > Sir Nicholas Throckmorton, c. 1562. (snip) Okay- that might be it, but I can't be sure. I'll just have to take a stroll thru my Elizabethan costuming books and see if I can find the image that I have in my mind.....or determine that I'm out of my mind! > Sorry, I don't own a copy of QEWU. Next time I have access to a > copy, I'll have to look. The apparent opening for the pocket is at about hand level when the arm is at more or less full extension which would mean that if it were separate hanging pockets, the tops of the pouch part would have to be over 6 inches long with the holding part of the pocket extending even lower making it difficult to get to items at the bottom of the pocket.....and I'm sure that the Truth Of The Universe that whatever you want is at the very bottom of the purse held true even then........If it is set into the body of the garment, then it can be almost horizontal and much easier to retrieve items from. > Yes, you're right that there are 4 portraits of men in slops on this > page, but > all strike me as fairly narrow. In particular, the 1556 pair worn > by Prince > Carlos do not even seem to be stuffed, and if he had a pocket that > contained > anything bulkier than a handkerchief, I think it would make an > unsightly bulge. Well, what would an Elizabethan man have kept in his pockets? Let's face it he didn't have even half of what we schlep around on a regular basis. He might have had the apparently requisite handkerchief, maybe a small pouch of coins.....maybe not if he wasn't planning on buying anything....A comb? A rosary or other devotional item? There would not be a wad of credit cards, car keys, cell phone, checkbook, make-up bag, house keys, wallet full of paper money, novel to read at lunch, hairbrush..... and that's just some of the stuff I carry in my purse! Before we decide if there is enough room for a pocket, we need to have some idea of what that pocket might have been intended to contain. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 10:08:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54E8uE1012516 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54E87bk057432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54E87uJ054076; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54E84qE054032 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:08:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so2732585wri for ; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:07:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=qUuBUE7ZhXVc/ha8g3xftr0QoO8XAn/YKm5URFAoID1nE9rpbvSp3cLsuwmbokpddCQOMXBKF96dGaYSvdKup3xdkF0dOyxepIPLbIWQrcQ8yZUXgBz0YNKlybgmp8oAfSxmBiGaL2SDBgjS6J1Si0+Ht85+odx1sm7l7zLGWqY= Received: by 10.54.54.44 with SMTP id c44mr2063453wra; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.128.14 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:07:12 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <015101c568f6$22f4f6d0$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> <200506032054.04383.cathy@thyrsus.com> <015101c568f6$22f4f6d0$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j54E8uE1012516 Status: RO I don't think size can be blamed on food or anything else. I was barely 5' tall if I stood up real straight. My older son is 6', my younger 5'3". Older son's father was 6', younger son's 6'3". Go figure. On 6/4/05, Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > > >> P.S. As a ten year old American girl I was well over 5 feet tall...... > > > > As a 10-year old American girl, I was barely 5 ft 1--as tall as I am > now. > > :-) > > > > I never quite made it to five feet tall--about a quarter inch shy of it! > When I started school, I was smaller than my 3 y.o. son is now. > > Dianne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 10:34:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54EYBNP012680 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:34:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54EXUeB059547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54EXPl5065513; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:33:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j54EXMVM065465 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:33:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLDQ7AAG2PER2 for (sender ); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgmr446Kbd1NMPlw+jjPWQmg= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUNKC3UJ; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:33:00 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:12:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Message-ID: <20050604.073228.3756.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,4-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:2:2849175814 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. Depends! If you're wearing the corset correctly, as a support garment, you should be fine. If you're wearing one to confine your waist and ribs and mash your breasts together up to your chin, then no. Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 10:34:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54EYKPu012683 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:34:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54EXU5d059548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54EXPuo065515; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:33:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j54EXMGG065466 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:33:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLDQ7AANUTZ4J for (sender ); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:33:04 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgmr446Kbd1NM8Mk5KPoHw/M= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUNKC3UM; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:33:00 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:13:35 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] exams Message-ID: <20050604.073228.3756.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-11,13-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 4:6:422094314 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey, congratulations!!! :) On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:47:43 -0700 Althea Turner writes: > Well, I passed my prelim exams and am now a real doctoral candidate. > > woohoo!!!!! > > This is a question I was asked and kinda stumped me. Apparently I > answered ok.... > "What did Neanderthal's wear?" Whatever wandered by that they could kill, skin, and eat, I guess. Darn them for not leaving records.... ;) Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 10:37:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54Eb2hE012708 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:37:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54EaPip059794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54EaPL1066967; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:36:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54EaOXG066917 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:36:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aspasia1@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so2760728wri for ; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:36:18 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=YLBSPKuXM/Sy6Ez3lH0GoUdnY0p1n/xfz4gA2opcoDNGryrzhYCWmvDa+PKr+6iyRny22RyG5ZoxW5veSEKabFfHKtlxtaiNaZeXsVhQI7ftwvasr5W5v5L22AK+BK39pgawslzlweqqNC1ywyAzTr6K512EzMTn9wRNq6RZhxg= Received: by 10.54.56.50 with SMTP id e50mr1195337wra; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.128.14 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:36:18 -0400 From: Bonnie Booker To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050601125258.0267d3f8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <200506011401.j51E1Nit064067@net.indra.com> <200506011838.OAA06261@atlas.concentric.com> <4.3.1.2.20050601125258.0267d3f8@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j54Eb2hE012708 Status: RO On 6/1/05, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > >This reminds me... > >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to deal > with? > > "18-inch waists were common." Someone pointed out to me that the average > head is something like 22 inches around. So if the photograph shows the > head larger than the waist, we're not looking at a photo of any 18-inch > waist. And pre-PhotoShop photo re-touching is pretty obvious in most > cases. > > When I was 16 back in the ' 60s, I had an 18" waist. But then I'm barely > 5' tall. Now I would be happy to have an 18" thigh. > -- > Aspasia Moonwind _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 10:38:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54EcnSx012729 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:38:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54EcCjZ059869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54EcCMY067779; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (cmlapp16.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54Ec9To067746 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:38:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-65-41-202-145.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [65.41.202.145]) by cmlapp16.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A30193011B for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:38:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:37:46 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001301c56912$ff154900$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/912/Sat Jun 4 04:00:52 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My paternal great-great-grandparents, born in 1850 and 1852, were 6'4" (him) and 6'3" (her)!!! My father was 5'2" in first grade (his teacher was 4'11"). I am 5'10" and the shortest woman in the family. Genetics will always play a role, no matter what the diet. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 12:53:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54GrSOV013578 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:53:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54GqU78068270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:52:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54GqR3i027440; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn8.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54GqOqg027392 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:52:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 0FC1539BA; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:52:16 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [207.161.60.40] by mprdmailfe2.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 12:52:16 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 852607162fc63f9a3ce173a59d3a3adb From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20050604165216.0FC1539BA@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:52:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: costume myth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like how the "everybody was shorter back then" is said even about the 1950's. Hello, all the people born before 1950 raise your hand! Wendy _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 16:04:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54K4VE7015379 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:04:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54K3TQ7082862 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:03:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54K3PvZ015499; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:03:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.lax.untd.com (outbound-mail.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j54K3Mot015445 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from webmail24.lax.untd.com (webmail24.lax.untd.com [10.131.27.164]) by smtpout05.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLECHUABPYFCA for (sender ); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 13:02:58 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7j5ZffthS4iNXwqOq1n58LR9zhkStBr0wg== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by webmail24.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUN5775A; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 13:02:23 PDT Received: from [68.13.133.77] by webmail24.lax.untd.com with HTTP: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:01:59 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.13.133.77] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "llwatts@juno.com" Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:01:59 GMT To: h-costume@net.indra.com X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050604.130223.26929.273213@webmail24.lax.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:1:1353596243 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.131.27.164|webmail24.lax.untd.com|webmail24.lax.untd.com|llwatts@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Big And Tall Historicals X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine is looking for something to wear in the historical line; specifically the time period covering Colonial America to (roughly) Lewis and Clark in men's big and tall sizes. Either premade or patterns would work, he's got someone lined up who can sew. I don't know if he's looking for seriously authentic or just something that looks good. Anyone have ideas? I've got the Folkwear Missouri Boatman's shirt pattern, but I don't even want to think about how much alteration it would take to get the size large enough. (I made the man's large for me, and the cuffs were almost too tight to fasten.) I'm willing to pass on responses, but Joe (my friend) gave me permission to post his e-mail as well for anyone who would want to reply directly -- it's cpspalding@aol.com . Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 17:22:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54LML8x015797 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54LLZO5087251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54LLWrG048192; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:21:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54LLSG1048141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54MfU0F004764 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:41:35 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:21:18 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050603.201512.-673973.0.penhalion@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050603.201512.-673973.0.penhalion@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506041721.18245.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 03 June 2005 9:15 pm, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 20:54:04 -0400 Catherine Olanich Raymond > > > While we're comparing notes, I vaguely remember reading that > > measurements of her effigy measured about 5 ft 3 or 4. > > Been there, seen the effigy- it's definitely bigger than 5'3". Not having seen it or having another source that has seen and measured it handy, I'll have to take your word for it. > I have > photos of it around here somewhere, but as i didn't sneak a ruler into > the shot, there's no way I can prove how big it is. ;-) As a matter of > fact, I had the impression that it might have been made larger than > life-size.........The dressed effigy has been extensively made over so > height taken from that is probably not accurate.... Now that's certainly conceivable, but without having looked into the subject I can't be sure. > although there's > another less famous effigy from Mary I that's largely intact and that > height of that one is 5'5".....wasn't Mary said to be the shorter of the > two sisters? I do not recall ever having seen any source that has purported to comment on the relative heights of the Tudor sisters. > > > Or at least as *wide.* My recollection is that the average door--as > > opposed > > to the front doors of a cathedral or public building--was quite > > narrow at least through the 18th century. > > They tend to be both shorter and narrower than modern doors- at least the > ones I have had the opportunity to walk thru. I have a shot of me > standing in front of a door in Shakespeare's Birthplace where even in > modern clothes I fill the doorway quite nicely.....did I mention I'm just > over 5'7" tall? You might have. Anyway, you've confirmed my recollection on this point. I was unwilling to speculate that Elizabeth would have to stoop to get through a period door (that gets back to the height issue, above) but it's clear from her portraits that she wore wider skirts as her reign went on. She'd certainly have trouble getting one of them through a period door. :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 18:20:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54MKEJh016177 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54MJTVD091595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:19:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54MJSL1073315; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:19:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54Jf58G005221 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 13:41:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF21C3BE0D for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:41:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 91FFEC4C2 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:41:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:41:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20050604.073228.3756.0.Cley@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was just recently told (by someone who is repeating what they were told) that wearing a corset over a long period of time will weaken the back muscles so that when you get older you have to wear a corset. This sounds like BS to me but has anyone heard from a reputable health source that this is true? De -----Original Message----- > 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. Depends! If you're wearing the corset correctly, as a support garment, you should be fine. If you're wearing one to confine your waist and ribs and mash your breasts together up to your chin, then no. Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 18:58:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54Mwfbm016321 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54MviiK094682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:57:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54MvfB3089215; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:57:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay101-f12.bay101.hotmail.com [64.4.56.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54Mvej0089174 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 16:57:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jbmcardle@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:57:35 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.56.200 by by101fd.bay101.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 22:57:35 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.56.200] X-Originating-Email: [jbmcardle@hotmail.com] X-Sender: jbmcardle@hotmail.com From: "Jennifer McArdle" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:57:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2005 22:57:35.0262 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC2013E0:01C56958] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Message-ID: costume myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I used to dance the cancan in a corset for the Living History Center's "Old San Francisco/California Faires." Our costumes were designed on a lace up the back corset. Since it was a long over the hips style, our kick range was reduced to 90-135 degrees but we sang and danced around. You just had to watch that the person helping you dress didn't get over enthusiastic and lace it up too tightly! Jennifer McArdle <> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:07:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54N7DpH016397 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54N6UdT095176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:06:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54N6QBI092622; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:TjMBXRgnF9wG84y3wNl480Mc61UwTsaX@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54N5sp9092372 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:05:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.112] (pool180-137.patriot.net [209.249.180.137]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j54N5pgx029689 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:05:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:05:31 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We're not talking about weekend use, but constant use, yes. Check out the fetish sites - some women are unable to go uncorsetted for a great length of time. While not quite the same as a corset, I wore a back brace from age 10 to 16. It was fairly solid around the hips. I had to do exercises that supposedly would keep the back muscles in shape. (As if 15 minutes a day was enough!) About age 17 to 20 I worked part time in a retail store. On weekends (usually a 4 hour shift) I could definitely tell my lower back was complaining. Eventually it got better, and I don't suspect I will ever "need" a corset. -Carol >I was just recently told (by someone who is repeating what they were >told) that wearing a corset over a long period of time will weaken >the back muscles so that when you get older you have to wear a >corset. This sounds like BS to me but has anyone heard from a >reputable health source that this is true? > >De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:11:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54NBSgW016427 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:11:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54NArEx095537 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NAqPH094410; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.25]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NAppV094359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-7.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j54NBTSF011426 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:11:29 -0500 Message-ID: <42A234EF.7080905@wideopenwest.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:10:39 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: costume myth References: <20050604165216.0FC1539BA@mprdmxin.myway.com> In-Reply-To: <20050604165216.0FC1539BA@mprdmxin.myway.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > "I like how the "everybody was shorter back then" is said even about > the 1950's. > Hello, all the people born before 1950 raise your hand! " Hah, that's a laugh! My mom was born in 1941 and my dad in 1937, and they're BOTH much taller than I am (5ft 5-3/4 in). Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:14:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54NEJeP016441 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:14:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54NDd5Y095813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:13:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NDcId095628; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j54NDYZa095559 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 60152 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2005 23:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2005 23:13:28 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050605000904.01624190@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 00:11:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:05 04/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: > We're not talking about weekend use, but constant use, yes. Check > out the fetish sites - some women are unable to go uncorsetted for a > great length of time. > > While not quite the same as a corset, I wore a back brace from age > 10 to 16. It was fairly solid around the hips. I had to do exercises > that supposedly would keep the back muscles in shape. (As if 15 minutes a > day was enough!) About age 17 to 20 I worked part time in a retail > store. On weekends (usually a 4 hour shift) I could definitely tell my > lower back was complaining. > > Eventually it got better, and I don't suspect I will ever "need" a > corset. > > -Carol > > >>I was just recently told (by someone who is repeating what they were >>told) that wearing a corset over a long period of time will weaken the >>back muscles so that when you get older you have to wear a corset. This >>sounds like BS to me but has anyone heard from a reputable health source >>that this is true? >> >>De I was told by a corsetiere (making corsets during the 40's and 50's) that women who had been in corsets since their teens, and were now elderly, had got so used to the holding up a corset gives, they were not comfortable without. Not medical, but someone "in the trade". Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:17:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54NHMZR016470 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:17:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54NGmSL096030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:16:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NGlsw096918; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:16:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j54NGh0S096845 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:16:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 92926 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2005 23:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2005 23:16:37 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050605001213.015f7ce8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 00:14:43 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: costume myth In-Reply-To: <42A234EF.7080905@wideopenwest.com> References: <20050604165216.0FC1539BA@mprdmxin.myway.com> <20050604165216.0FC1539BA@mprdmxin.myway.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:10 04/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > "I like how the "everybody was shorter back then" is said even about > > the 1950's. > > Hello, all the people born before 1950 raise your hand! " > >Hah, that's a laugh! My mom was born in 1941 and my dad in 1937, and >they're BOTH much taller than I am (5ft 5-3/4 in). >Michelle I was born in 1943, and was considered a good size at 5' 41/2". My Mom, born in 1922 barely reached 5'. My Dad (1920) came from a taller, mining village family, and all the boys were over 6' and the girl was 5' 7". Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:49:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54NnB3x016589 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:49:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54NmOdA098526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:48:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NmMST011153; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:48:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-3.paradise.net.nz (bm-3a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NmKh6011132 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:48:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (smtp-2b.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.211]) by linda-3.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IHL00ACX3GI7S@linda-3.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:48:19 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-187.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.187]) by smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B859E733 for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:48:18 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:41:19 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-reply-to: <200506030035.14930.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A23C1F.9040000@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200506022334.23709.cathy@thyrsus.com> <429FD387.7070600@paradise.net.nz> <200506030035.14930.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >>>Before then, upper hose fit much too closely (and, >>>while codpieces were in fashion, there wouldn't have been much of a need >>>for another form of pocket. One could even argue that the codpiece was >>>superior because it would be really hard for pickpockets to get at it >>>without alerting the prorprietor. ) >>> >>> >>I think you may have highlighted another myth here... >> >> > >I don't deny that there's no proof that anyone carried his ...money in his >codpiece. On the other hand, I know of no proof that it *wasn't* done, >either. > Which is a damned good argument for serving sushi and hamburgers at feasts, isn't it? Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:54:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54Ns0X4016600 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:54:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54NrJ7i098757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NrJx0012848; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:53:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-3.paradise.net.nz (bm-3a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NrGbL012826 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:53:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (smtp-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.194]) by linda-3.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IHL00AQ33ORKS@linda-3.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:53:15 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-187.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.187]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C019E82BC9 for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:53:14 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:46:15 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A23D47.7080501@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <20050603.082137.-740223.2.penhalion@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Karen R Bergquist wrote: >On the other hand I remember reading in a source (can't remember which >one, I've read so many!) that Queen E was 5'7" tall. At one point she was >talking to a visiting dignitary while walking thru a palace and made the >joke that she was 'as big as a door'. While Elizabethan doors might have >been somewhat smaller than later doors, they were still at least 6 feet >tall. I think that the combination of being somewhat tall with an tall >elaborate hairstyle and the wide farthingale and sleeves might have made >her quite literally as big as an average door. > > Or for that matter, it could mean that with big sleeves and farthingale, she was simple as _wide_ as a door. Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:56:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54Nud6Y016608 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:56:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54Nt6Kt098920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:55:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54Nt5iS013499; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:55:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-2.paradise.net.nz (bm-2a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.21]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54Nt2OB013483 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:55:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (smtp-3a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.196]) by linda-2.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IHL00FCK3RP7T@linda-2.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:55:01 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-187.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.187]) by smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A89AE53A for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:55:00 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:48:02 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths In-reply-to: <20050603145505.37378.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A23DB2.70800@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <20050603145505.37378.qmail@web30109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mia Dappert wrote: >I seem to remember some of the ladies on the 18c llste experimenting with not washing thier hair for long periods of time. (To me that's longer than 2 days) They noted that just what you said happened. After the first few days,or being 20-21st century hair that craved washing every few days, it reverted to earlier period hair and was not so.. greasy? as one might expect. I my self have never lasted beyond 2-days without my scalp itching. But I remember ladies in my youth (1950's and60's) only getting their hair "done" at the beauty shop once a week, and not washing it inbetween. > >And some of the black ladies I work with look at me as if I'm crazy when I say how frequently I was my hair. They only wash theirs once a week > > I go through periods of only shampooing once a week or so. Basically, if you wash it less, it will need less washing. Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 19:57:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j54NvAiD016613 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:57:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j54NuEET099081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:56:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NuE2v014000; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:56:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-3.paradise.net.nz (bm-3a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j54NuBp7013972 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 17:56:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (smtp-2b.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.211]) by linda-3.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IHL00AUM3TMN3@linda-3.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:56:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-187.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.187]) by smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA209E561 for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:56:10 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:49:11 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] first bras In-reply-to: <200506031607.MAA15860@courageux.concentric.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A23DF7.8040808@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <200506031607.MAA15860@courageux.concentric.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: >---- wrote:> > > > >>>Marie Tucek's 1893 bust supporter is commonly called the first bra: >>>http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/1893braMTucek494397.gif >>> >>> >>Yup, looks like a bra, all right. Now I'm mad at the so-called histories I'd >>read that don't include it. >> >> > >Has anyone heard the story that the first modern cantilevered bra was developed by Howard Hughes for Jane Russell? Who really designed that bra? > > I don't know, but Jane Russell said later that she wore her own bra for the "infamous" photo shoot. Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 21:25:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j551PVFw017003 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j551OhYW004402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:24:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j551OdBO048200; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:24:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j551ObkX048156 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLEXBFAW9PCQ2 for (sender ); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:23:49 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgp8dnFNu2WOvpsnNTKdr/eg= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUPQJYSC; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:22:51 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:21:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Message-ID: <20050604.182231.2768.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,7-10,12-40 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 14:7:2580478836 X-MAIL-INFO: 3ae0607460e5bdf0e5bd7571bd75a57dd5c55569cd65c5518425cd055111906451800185e035e029157559bde071 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Born in the 50's. 5'1" at age 11. 5'2 by age 12, and still had 2 more inches to go. No genetic basis for it though, being adopted. Obligatory costume content. My mother gave up buying me clothes during this wild growth spurt. Instead, she made my clothes (she was a wonderful seamstress) with huge hems neatly tuck and sewn so they could be let out! Arlys On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:36:18 -0400 Bonnie Booker writes: > On 6/1/05, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > > > >This reminds me... > > >What are some of the myths/stereotypes of costuming you've had to > deal > > with? > > > > "18-inch waists were common." Someone pointed out to me that the > average > > head is something like 22 inches around. So if the photograph > shows the > > head larger than the waist, we're not looking at a photo of any > 18-inch > > waist. And pre-PhotoShop photo re-touching is pretty obvious in > most > > cases. > > > > When I was 16 back in the ' 60s, I had an 18" waist. But then I'm > barely > > 5' tall. Now I would be happy to have an 18" thigh. > > -- > > Aspasia Moonwind > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 22:38:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j552cFcA017273 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j552bPMt009645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:37:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j552bKqj076018; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:37:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j552bGxh075979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:37:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-219-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.219]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j552bENX004421 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:37:15 +1000 Message-ID: <006001c56977$523bc280$dbdbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:36:03 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:41 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths > I was just recently told (by someone who is repeating what they were told) > that wearing a corset over a long period of time will weaken the back > muscles so that when you get older you have to wear a corset. > This sounds like BS to me but has anyone heard from a reputable health > source that this is true? > > De > Actually there is plenty of evidence that muscles that don't do anything atrophy over time, in the same way as working the muscles makes them stronger not working the muscles makes them weaker. Because the corset does the work of keeping your posture erect your muscles get used to not doing the work. It would probably not be so bad that you were unable to use the muscles at all but if you had been wearing a corset since you were a teenager (or even younger) every day of your life then yes your muscles would get weaker and 40 years on you probably would find it difficult to go without a corset. A quick google on muscle atrophy and corsets turned up this page http://www.staylace.com/medicaladvice/med_44.htm with advice from a doctor. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 22:45:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j552j14Y017297 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:45:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j552iHwx010188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:44:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j552iGto078795; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:44:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j552iCRt078716 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:44:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 440D1180012C for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:44:07 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.31) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 5 Jun 2005 02:44:07 -0000 Received: by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 3BC4DE5BC7; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:44:07 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.6; A1.17; B2.12; Q2.03) Received: from [149.169.241.109] by ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:44:07 -0500 X-Mailer: mail.lycos.com webmail From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:44:07 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: costume myth X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.241.109 X-Originating-Server: ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050605024407.3BC4DE5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j552iCRt078716 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone wrote: > > > "I like how the "everybody was shorter back then" is said even > about > the 1950's. > > Hello, all the people born before 1950 raise your hand! " Actually, this is partially true. There were a noticable number of adults in the 1950's who suffered from the effects of having been undernourished as children during the 1930's. Slightly diminshied stature would definately be one result. -Katie -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 23:19:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j553JF9l017467 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 23:19:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j553IUpF012081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j553ITnH091675; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:18:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j553IPrU091655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:18:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-219-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.219]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j553IOAT002667 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:18:24 +1000 Message-ID: <006701c5697d$11f19280$dbdbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050604165216.0FC1539BA@mprdmxin.myway.com><20050604165216.0FC1539BA@mprdmxin.myway.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050605001213.015f7ce8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: costume myth Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:17:13 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: costume myth > At 19:10 04/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > > "I like how the "everybody was shorter back then" is said even about > > > the 1950's. > > > Hello, all the people born before 1950 raise your hand! " > > but statistically in western countries it's true, probably only an inch or so spread across the whole population but average height is less for those who reached their full adult height 30 years ago than people who reached their adult height 3 years ago. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 23:29:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j553Td04017517 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 23:29:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j553SwlB012533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:28:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j553Sv3R095527; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:28:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j553SXUJ095378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-219-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.219]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j553SW13026313 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:28:32 +1000 Message-ID: <007401c5697e$7c84c940$dbdbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050603103933.014dedb8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] how to clean & store a lace collar Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:27:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > My friend who collects lace told me to wrap it round a bottle or jar before > washing in plain water to start with. It can be dried that way too. I don't > know about using anything stronger (she lives in Denmark with no e-mail so > I can't ask), but real soap (Lux, Fairy, shaved bar soap, baby shampoo or > wash - not detergent) is probably as safe as anything, and would be what > was used originally. > > I store everything *old* in acid free tissue in archive boxes. (Part of my > storage problem!) > > Suzi Suzi, Thanks for the advice, I rinsed it and then washed it in warm water with lux flakes, I couldn't wrap it around a bottle effectively as it's essentially a circle shape so because the outside is bigger than the inside it wouldn't work right. Instead I decided it would probably cope with floating loose in the water and I dried it flat on a towel near the heater. Now I've just got to wait until I've finished my end of semester essays (all of my subjects decided to give me research essays instead of exams, but that means I've got to go out and spend my time on research instead of just reading back through my notes) to go out & buy some acid free paper, though for now I'm sure it's OK between a couple of layers of cotton. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 4 23:53:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j553rdnB017594 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 23:53:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j553qc01014030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:52:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j553qa6P004439; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:52:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j553qXU5004421 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:52:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m241.in-tch.com [216.166.191.241]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j553lXV27241 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:47:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42A27856.3030702@in-tch.com> Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:58:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050605000904.01624190@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050605000904.01624190@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Maybe it's a perceived comfort-level thing and not medical at all (at least for some)? Like getting used to wearing a bra? Or wearing skirts and not liking pants, or vice versa? It may be the discrepancy that is perceived as "discomfort," rather than actual discomfort, if that makes any sort of sense....I know that the restriction I used to feel when wearing my late-16th century for SCA things took some getting used to. It was a different way for my body to move and "feel," even when I was sitting still....Not bad or painful, just different. Of course, I think that's half the fun of making historical clothing! ;o) --sue Suzi Clarke wrote: > > I was told by a corsetiere (making corsets during the 40's and 50's) > that women who had been in corsets since their teens, and were now > elderly, had got so used to the holding up a corset gives, they were not > comfortable without. Not medical, but someone "in the trade". > > Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 00:01:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5541Bds017608 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:01:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5540RLI014369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5540RRg007303; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5540Nb4007263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:00:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j555KUWp009474 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:20:31 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:00:17 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200506030035.14930.cathy@thyrsus.com> <42A23C1F.9040000@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <42A23C1F.9040000@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506050000.17382.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 04 June 2005 7:41 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > >>>Before then, upper hose fit much too closely (and, > >>>while codpieces were in fashion, there wouldn't have been much of a need > >>>for another form of pocket. One could even argue that the codpiece was > >>>superior because it would be really hard for pickpockets to get at it > >>>without alerting the prorprietor. ) > >> > >>I think you may have highlighted another myth here... > > > >I don't deny that there's no proof that anyone carried his ...money in his > >codpiece. On the other hand, I know of no proof that it *wasn't* done, > >either. > > Which is a damned good argument for serving sushi and hamburgers at > feasts, isn't it? Of course not, and that's not what I was trying to say above. I wasn't attempting to defend the codpiece comment as *truth*. I was trying to make the point that it isn't *myth*. A myth is a "fact" or, perhaps more properly, a factoid, that people relay as true even though there is evidence that it is not true. If there is no evidence on the point one way or the other, you cannot say it's true--but you also can't say that it's a "myth", either. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 00:20:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j554Kp55017671 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:20:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j554K0x2015985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:20:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j554JwD0014298; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:19:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j554JsgD014244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j555e2nb009771 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:40:02 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:19:48 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050604.085811.-7410185.1.penhalion@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050604.085811.-7410185.1.penhalion@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200506050019.48916.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 04 June 2005 9:58 am, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 02:01:31 -0400 Catherine Olanich Raymond > > > Okay, I've looked through the book twice, and the only image I see > > showing a > > gentleman with a handkerchief is No. 62. It's identified as a > > portrait of > > Sir Nicholas Throckmorton, c. 1562. > > (snip) > > Okay- that might be it, but I can't be sure. I'll just have to take a > stroll thru my Elizabethan costuming books and see if I can find the > image that I have in my mind.....or determine that I'm out of my mind! If you do find it, please let me know--now I'm curious! > > > Sorry, I don't own a copy of QEWU. Next time I have access to a > > copy, I'll have to look. > > The apparent opening for the pocket is at about hand level when the arm > is at more or less full extension which would mean that if it were > separate hanging pockets, the tops of the pouch part would have to be > over 6 inches long That assumes that the hanging pocket would necessarily hang with the very top of the pouch even with the edge of the pocket slit--the way a modern pocket works. However, I don't think it's at all clear that the hanging-pocket-with-slit set up would have needed to work that way. See my comments below. By the way, the pockets shown in the 17th c slops in PofF are trapezoidal in shape (compared to the more modern rectangular or kidney shapes) and as made up would be about 6 inches wide and 12 inches deep. > with the holding part of the pocket extending even > lower making it difficult to get to items at the bottom of the > pocket.....and I'm sure that the Truth Of The Universe that whatever you > want is at the very bottom of the purse held true even then........If it > is set into the body of the garment, then it can be almost horizontal and > much easier to retrieve items from. I agree that the stuff one wants always decends to the bottom of the container (whether it be a purse, pocket, chest, or whatever). However, since hanging pockets are not by definition attached to the garment, once you've reached into the slit you can haul them up as far as you need to in order to reach the stuff on the bottom. (In fact, having the pocket hang a fair way below the slit when the pocket is not being accessed could have been considered a feature; greater safety from potential pickpockets, and a smaller chance that the pocket would create a bulge to spoil the line of the dress.) Of course, all of this is speculation anyway and you might well have the right of it... > > Yes, you're right that there are 4 portraits of men in slops on this > > page, but > > all strike me as fairly narrow. In particular, the 1556 pair worn > > by Prince > > Carlos do not even seem to be stuffed, and if he had a pocket that > > contained > > anything bulkier than a handkerchief, I think it would make an > > unsightly bulge. > > Well, what would an Elizabethan man have kept in his pockets? The list you give below sounds about right for a wealthy man. > Let's face > it he didn't have even half of what we schlep around on a regular basis. That's true, but beside the point. We don't need to presume that any 16th c gentleman would have as many pockets in his slops as a modern man might have in his jeans or even his suit trousers. Moreover, depending on cut and fabric even a small number of contents could "spoil the line." That's one reason modern tailors frown when a customer actually uses the pockets in his suit jacket, for example. > He might have had the apparently requisite handkerchief, maybe a small > pouch of coins..... Which might have been quite heavy--remember, period coinage had a higher precious metal content than anything in use today. > maybe not if he wasn't planning on buying > anything....A comb? A rosary or other devotional item? Whether an unsightly bulge would result from carrying items in a pocket would depend more on the bulk and weight of the items relative to the size of the pocket, and where the pocket hung in relation to the outermost surface of the garment, not from how much could be stuffed in the pocket in absolute terms. > There would not be > a wad of credit cards, car keys, cell phone, checkbook, make-up bag, > house keys, wallet full of paper money, novel to read at lunch, > hairbrush..... and that's just some of the stuff I carry in my purse! I don't carry a purse myself (gave it up decades ago except on the rare occasions when I'm wearing a skirt in public), and on average men carry many fewer items in their pockets than women carry either in pockets or purses. > Before we decide if there is enough room for a pocket, we need to have > some idea of what that pocket might have been intended to contain. That's a good point. One thing we can do is to go back to PofF and look at the dimensions of the pockets Arnold found in those early 17th century slops. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 04:32:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j558WUPW028371 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 04:32:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j558VZUn037859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:31:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j558VUQ2007254; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:31:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-4.paradise.net.nz (bm-4a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j558VQOj007229 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 02:31:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (smtp-3a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.196]) by linda-4.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IHL001P9ROD2M@linda-4.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:31:25 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-148-161.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.148.161]) by smtp-3.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id A301CAE65D for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:31:24 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:24:25 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets In-reply-to: <200506050000.17382.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A2B6B9.3030509@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <20050602065421.12577.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200506030035.14930.cathy@thyrsus.com> <42A23C1F.9040000@paradise.net.nz> <200506050000.17382.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Saturday 04 June 2005 7:41 pm, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > > >>>I don't deny that there's no proof that anyone carried his ...money in his >>>codpiece. On the other hand, I know of no proof that it *wasn't* done, >>>either. >>> >>> >>Which is a damned good argument for serving sushi and hamburgers at >>feasts, isn't it? >> >> > >Of course not, and that's not what I was trying to say above. > >I wasn't attempting to defend the codpiece comment as *truth*. I was trying >to make the point that it isn't *myth*. A myth is a "fact" or, perhaps more >properly, a factoid, that people relay as true even though there is evidence >that it is not true. If there is no evidence on the point one way or the >other, you cannot say it's true--but you also can't say that it's a "myth", >either. > > But that's eaxctly what the codpiece-as-purse theory is. I've heard it repeated as "truth" more than once. There is no evidence I know of that it is true-- no literary or documentary evidence. No extant examples showing any evidence of pouch-ness. Nothing. It is a theory made of whole cloth. Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 09:37:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55DbhIh001764 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:37:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55DZarm077316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 07:35:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55DZO5B020529; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 07:35:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from navgw.mccc.edu (navgw.mccc.edu [198.133.170.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j55DZK2T020435 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 07:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005060509351517319 for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 09:35:15 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j55DZB0j029315 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01e001c569d3$70420d00$54a810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] exams Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:35:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> "What did Neanderthal's wear?" > The ones I know usually wear dirty t-shirts with obscene messages and jeans... Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 11:01:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55F1nn9002331 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:01:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55F0gEY086777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:00:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55F0aVG056430; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:00:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from abraxis.com (mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55F0YCO056408 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 09:00:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sandraleigh@abraxis.com) Received: from mail.abraxis.com [216.47.64.210] by abraxis.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.12) id A391100010A; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 11:00:33 -0400 Received: from Sandra ([216.47.84.22]) by mail.abraxis.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:00:32 -0400 From: "Sandra Olsen" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:00:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c569df$5287eb70$16542fd8@Sandra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2005 15:00:33.0347 (UTC) FILETIME=[528C3130:01C569DF] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, it's true. Corsets hold one into a rigidly upright posture - it's impossible to slouch, or to tie one's own shoelaces in a properly worn corset (All those people who CAN tie their shoelaces, well... how's your job in Cirque du Soleil going?). That means that neither your back muscles nor your abdominals are called on to do their usual task of holding you upright. So yes, if you wear a corset constantly for a long period of time, more than a few months, say... those muscles will weaken. Over the course of several years, the effect will be significant. It doesn't mean that you'll collapse entirely (even our Victorian forebears too them off to bathe and sleep and got a little "exercise" that way), but going without a corset will be very uncomfortable and tiring. It's like asking your legs to run five miles when they've never had to do more than carry you around the house. That said, one could certainly train ones muscles back into shape. You wouldn't "have" to wear a corset, but you'd be in pain until you could strengthen them enough to do the task. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 3:41 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths I was just recently told (by someone who is repeating what they were told) that wearing a corset over a long period of time will weaken the back muscles so that when you get older you have to wear a corset. This sounds like BS to me but has anyone heard from a reputable health source that this is true? De -----Original Message----- > 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. Depends! If you're wearing the corset correctly, as a support garment, you should be fine. If you're wearing one to confine your waist and ribs and mash your breasts together up to your chin, then no. Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 13:10:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55HAZla003344 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:10:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55H9U9O003215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:09:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55H9Qax012920; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:09:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.lax.untd.com (outbound-mail.lax.untd.com [64.136.28.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j55H9OhL012874 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 11:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from llwatts@juno.com) Received: from webmail28.lax.untd.com (webmail28.lax.untd.com [10.131.27.168]) by smtpout01.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLGNPCAHVAM2A for (sender ); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:08:50 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: WJAeLflMin2r+7mN51BJ7tZ1FLfs/w/bd7DhZ5Sj/6vCW1U3tHl0fg== Received: (from llwatts@juno.com) by webmail28.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUREMKKY; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 10:07:58 PDT Received: from [68.13.133.77] by webmail28.lax.untd.com with HTTP: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:07:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [68.13.133.77] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "llwatts@juno.com" Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:07:31 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050605.100758.16051.279613@webmail28.lax.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 5:2:3189342011 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.131.27.168|webmail28.lax.untd.com|webmail28.lax.untd.com|llwatts@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >Before then, upper hose fit much too closely (and, >> >while codpieces were in fashion, there wouldn't have been >> >much of a need >> > for another form of pocket. > >> I think you may have highlighted another myth here... > >I don't deny that there's no proof that anyone carried his > ...money in his codpiece. On the other hand, I know of no > proof that it *wasn't* done, either. And you must grant > that although a preoccupied man might fail to > notice a tug at his belt or other part of his body, reaching > for his crotch could not fail to get a reaction. :-) True, but I would think a man reaching for his crotch when asked to pay for something would have gotten a reaction as well :) . Leah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 14:38:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55IcPAN003854 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:38:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55Ibd9I013282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:37:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55IbYrF055519; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:37:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55IbUVt055497 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f56.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.86]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 9AC855EE095 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:37:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:37:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/914/Sun Jun 5 04:07:11 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Derede One of my clients at my job is wearing a support corset because she has a weak back. She complains that she feel as if her back collapses every time i undo her corset. She complains that her muscles are weakened by the corset because it almost keeps her up ( the corset) and not her muscles. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:41 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths >I was just recently told (by someone who is repeating what they were told) > that wearing a corset over a long period of time will weaken the back > muscles so that when you get older you have to wear a corset. > This sounds like BS to me but has anyone heard from a reputable health > source that this is true? > > De > > -----Original Message----- >> 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. > > Depends! If you're wearing the corset correctly, as a support garment, > you should be fine. If you're wearing one to confine your waist and ribs > and mash your breasts together up to your chin, then no. > > Arlys > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 16:11:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55KBQ3J004358 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55KAGJs025574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:10:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55KA41h095755; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:10:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55KA23i095724 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:10:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Df1RZ-000BYs-8e for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:10:01 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:08:38 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:on the influence of weapons use and pockets References: <200506020856.j528tujn086958@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote >>From: Stephanie Smith >>Why do you think this? Certainly there have been >>points in history in which military "style" has >>influenced civilian style (eg: late 1990's, when camos >>were cool, Regency/Napoleonic times, when ladies wore >>Scarlet outfits with gold frogging-- or is that >>another urban legend I believe in? *g*)... why would >>influence due to function be so very different? >>... > >Simply as an example of military wear influencing style (there are many >others): The introduction of the raised stacked heel in Europe for >men's shoes around 1600 seems to have been brought in with the fashion >of emulating the Turkish riding boot. Women's shoes traditionally have >carved solid core heel with a heel cover, probably ultimately derived >from the patten. > >Then of course, there are modern cargo pants -- those pockets were >originally put there so soldiers could store more "stuff", like >grenades and amunition, in easy to reach places... At least that's >what *I* used them for :) > >Marc > But when will flight crew pants be produced for fashion - the ones with write-on-wipe-off pads on the thighs? That would be seriously handy. Of course, they'd have to ban them in schools for exams - the girls would have to go back to writing on their thighs under short skirts like we did! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 16:11:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55KBdoY004363 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:11:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55KAtHi025665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:10:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55KAt7f096126; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:10:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55KAqL8096074 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHM007M7O20VL@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:11:29 -0400 From: J Schueller In-reply-to: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] t-tunics for men X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hello all, here is another of my simplestic questions. In making a t-tunic with the underarm gores, how big should the gores be? Yes i know that this depends on the size of the guy(mine wears t-shirt size XL-Tall), but I am not sure of the proportions. I have the body and the sleeves down ok, but i need to do work on the gores. I currently have the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems too big. How big are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? Also, My guy is complaing that the arm seem seems too far down on his sholder-i think this is just a fearture of a t-tunic (if the sholders are where he want then, then his belly would NOT fit!) j schueller _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 16:53:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55KrFto004617 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:53:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55KqPRm031213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:52:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55KqMnn013770; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:52:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55KqKju013755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:52:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Df26N-0000WV-J8; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:52:11 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:52:11 -0500 Message-ID: <20050605155211.bj9kf4l4di8gc0wo@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 15:52:11 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] exams References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Althea Turner : > Well, I passed my prelim exams and am now a real doctoral candidate. > woohoo!!!!! > WooHoo indeed! Been there and done that and lived to tell about it! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:02:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55L2Is7004787 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:02:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55L1dHY032049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:01:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55L1cDu017676; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:01:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55L1ZeG017594 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:01:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.159.5289a55f (4380) for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:01:25 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <159.5289a55f.2fd4c225@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:01:25 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/5/2005 4:10:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaurbik@optonline.net writes: I currently have the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems too big. How big are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? For the T-shaped 18th c. shirt, I make a 6" gusset--That would probably be better for you, too, I imagine. Also, such shirts have small neck gussets--a 4" or so square folded in half and sewn into the neck slit--to help them fit comfortably around the neck and shoulders. Probably totally inauthentic for T tunics, but might help the comfort problem you are talking about. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:10:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55LA3Um004898 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:10:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55L9JAe032474 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:09:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55L9Id5020774; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:09:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55L9FsM020711 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:09:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHM00G2KQPO39@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:09:52 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men In-reply-to: <159.5289a55f.2fd4c225@aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A36A20.1000705@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <159.5289a55f.2fd4c225@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I am making a bunch of undertunics for 16th cent, so i think i will stay away from neck gussets, but i am not sure i understand what you are mentioning. Do you mean in the front of the garment? j schueller AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > > Also, such shirts have small neck gussets--a >4" or so square folded in half and sewn into the neck slit--to help them fit >comfortably around the neck and shoulders. Probably totally inauthentic for >T tunics, but might help the comfort problem you are talking about. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:13:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55LDFXC004913 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55LCVgt032685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:12:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LCUls022207; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:12:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LCQUI022155 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:12:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <20050605211221013004g6g2e>; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:12:21 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.118; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:12:20 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:12:20 +0000 Message-Id: <060520052112.5305.42A36AB3000E922D000014B922007507840809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you mean triangles? To me, gores typically mean a panel of triangular shape, which sometimes are made from splitting rectangular panel diagonally. The hem being 8" and narrowing to 1 1/2" *wide* at the point? Meaning you end with a 'flat' point, to allow for the seam allowance at the point. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > In a message dated 6/5/2005 4:10:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jaurbik@optonline.net writes: > > I > currently have the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems too > big. How big are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? > > > > > For the T-shaped 18th c. shirt, I make a 6" gusset--That would probably be > better for you, too, I imagine. Also, such shirts have small neck gussets--a > 4" or so square folded in half and sewn into the neck slit--to help them fit > comfortably around the neck and shoulders. Probably totally inauthentic for > T tunics, but might help the comfort problem you are talking about. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:23:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55LN23A004964 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:23:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55LMP7E033410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:22:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LMNZO026492; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:22:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LMK1I026416 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.7e.6af1482c (48624) for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:22:13 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:22:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/5/2005 5:09:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaurbik@optonline.net writes: Do you mean in the front of the garment? No, they are inserted at the ends of the neck slits--that face out to the shoulders. The point is put into the end of the slit, with the wide part of the gusset at the neck edge. But it probably wouldn't work for a tunic--on a shirt, the whole neckline is gathered/guaged onto the collar or band. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:28:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55LSEUk005010 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:28:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55LRY3g033774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:27:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LRWlF028579; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:27:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LRTgN028545 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:27:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Df2eW-0003Eb-87 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:27:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:26:15 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets References: <20050604.085811.-7410185.1.penhalion@juno.com> <200506050019.48916.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200506050019.48916.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote <> >> >> Well, what would an Elizabethan man have kept in his pockets? > >The list you give below sounds about right for a wealthy man. > >> Let's face >> it he didn't have even half of what we schlep around on a regular basis. > >That's true, but beside the point. We don't need to presume that any 16th c >gentleman would have as many pockets in his slops as a modern man might have >in his jeans or even his suit trousers. Moreover, depending on cut and >fabric even a small number of contents could "spoil the line." That's one >reason modern tailors frown when a customer actually uses the pockets in his >suit jacket, for example. > > >> He might have had the apparently requisite handkerchief, maybe a small >> pouch of coins..... > >Which might have been quite heavy--remember, period coinage had a higher >precious metal content than anything in use today. > > I don't know about 16th century, but medieval coins were very much thinner than today - remember you could quite easily cut them in quarters (farthings) or snip bits off them. They didn't need to last through millions of transactions (and vending machines, and the washing machine, etc). A pouch of gold sovereigns would be heavy, but enough for a day's expenses wouldn't be. >> maybe not if he wasn't planning on buying >> anything....A comb? A rosary or other devotional item? > > Whether an unsightly bulge would result from carrying items in a pocket would >depend more on the bulk and weight of the items relative to the size of the >pocket, and where the pocket hung in relation to the outermost surface of the >garment, not from how much could be stuffed in the pocket in absolute terms. > > >> There would not be >> a wad of credit cards, car keys, cell phone, checkbook, make-up bag, >> house keys, wallet full of paper money, novel to read at lunch, >> hairbrush..... and that's just some of the stuff I carry in my purse! > >I don't carry a purse myself (gave it up decades ago except on the rare >occasions when I'm wearing a skirt in public), and on average men carry many >fewer items in their pockets than women carry either in pockets or purses. > I wonder what future people will think early 21st century fashionable women carried - no pockets and those ridiculously tiny handbags. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:32:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55LWVC3005054 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55LVsB3034236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LVr5m030772; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:31:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp819.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp819.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.170.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j55LVosR030744 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:31:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maggie.gene@justinanimator.com) Received: from unknown (HELO Genie.sbcglobal.net) (maggie.gene@sbcglobal.net@69.149.56.34 with login) by smtp819.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jun 2005 21:31:50 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050605161912.02af4590@mail.justinanimator.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 16:31:43 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Genie Barrett Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men In-Reply-To: <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:11 PM 6/5/2005, you wrote: >hello all, here is another of my simplestic questions. > >In making a t-tunic with the underarm gores, how big should the gores be? What I do, is put it on him before I sew the sides. Then, I see how much gappage there is, and how much room he wants and add seam allowance. It's always better to fit to him after all, than try some preset pattern that may not fit him. >Yes i know that this depends on the size of the guy(mine wears t-shirt >size XL-Tall), but I am not sure of the proportions. I have the body and >the sleeves down ok, but i need to do work on the gores. I currently have >the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems too big. How big >are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? >Also, My guy is complaing that the arm seem seems too far down on his >sholder-i think this is just a fearture of a t-tunic (if the sholders are >where he want then, then his belly would NOT fit!) Another option, if he has a big belly is that you may not need the gussets at all. Just put the thing on wrong side out, pin it closed, and flare for the belly. The seam will still be way down on his arm, but you can take some of that discomfort out by tightening it up a little under the arm. This adds to the ability to raise the arm. What I mean is that you make a shape of how the gusset would be if it were there. __________________ l seam l Neck hole sleeve l Body ________ l \ gusset shape \ This is not to scale l l top of belly / / flare for belly / What this does is gives you enough fabric for the belly, and still allows room for the gusset (which really is necessary, though not as big as I used to think). The comfort comes in the ability to raise the arm and bring the hands together in front of you without straining the fabric or having to lift the entire tunic up with the arms. Good luck Genie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:40:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55LeGph005120 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55Ldai8034658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:39:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LdZU3033967; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:39:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LdShT033894 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:39:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Df2q7-0005j2-9O for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:39:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:38:25 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On a t-tunic you cut a round neck hole. You can either do it quite tight to the collar size with a slit down the front to make the total opening large enough for his head (pre-12th century) or make it a wider circle overall. Here is a recipe for neck holes that really works - Debbie Lough gave it to me, I think she got it from someone else. Measure the size of hole you want and divide it by 5. From the centre of the back piece, measure 1 inch down and one-fifth of your measurement to each size, and draw your scoop to that (allow for hemming when you cut). From the centre front, measure one-fifth down and one-fifth to either side, for a semi-circle. If you want a non-round neck, use this plan to collar size, which will make it sit right, then draw outwards from there. My neckholes always used to be weird and wobbly, now they never fail (thanks Debs!) And yes, he will just have to put up with the shoulders to the size of his belly. Maybe you can make it an incentive for him to slim?? Jean AnnBWass@aol.com wrote > >In a message dated 6/5/2005 5:09:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >jaurbik@optonline.net writes: > >Do you mean in the front of the garment? > > > > >No, they are inserted at the ends of the neck slits--that face out to the >shoulders. The point is put into the end of the slit, with the wide part of >the gusset at the neck edge. But it probably wouldn't work for a tunic--on a >shirt, the whole neckline is gathered/guaged onto the collar or band. > >Ann Wass >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:51:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55Lp6UE005185 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55LoFAV035455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:50:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LoEtS038553; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:50:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LoAMm038532 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:50:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp141.pop1.net [209.102.125.191]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA32691 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:53:19 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp141.pop1.net [209.102.125.191] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <42A3735F.2030907@pcez.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 14:49:19 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fabric design X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings everyone, This term I did an Independent Study course with one of most favorite instructors. Mary teaches Basic Design. Anyway, as I was coming up with some designs and looking at the history of fabric printing and seeing some great periods in designs. How feasible is it for someone to design fabrics that would have been used as far back as the 14th or 15th centuries and althrough the Victorian era? To many ideas and not enough time in a lifetime, Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 17:59:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55LxC66005232 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55LwYOM036006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:58:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LwXLt042195; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:58:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55LwULI042108 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:58:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHM00KVPT08P1@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 17:59:06 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A375AA.2050402@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Trust me, already have that covered!! actually, he has lost 16 pounds in the last 6 months, so he is on the right direction. Just he (and not me :( ) is going to pennsic and going though old garb, he only has 1 pair of pants and no shirts that fit him comfertablely. But since it was all made for him by ex-girlfrend(10 years +), i have no problem makeing stuff for him. In fact, they only reason that stuff is not already made for him is that he is VERY picky. He can't stand tight or heavy things. And gives me no feedback inito what style he wants. So I figure since I KNOW what I want, Ii spend most of my time making me stuff. Jean Waddie wrote: > > And yes, he will just have to put up with the shoulders to the size of > his belly. Maybe you can make it an incentive for him to slim?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 19:01:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j55N1c1P005626 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:01:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j55N0j97040053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:00:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55N0gMi069181; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:00:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55N0aRm069085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:00:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j560KhFr032564 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:20:48 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:00:25 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506051900.25459.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 05 June 2005 5:38 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: [snip] > Here is a recipe for neck holes that really works - Debbie Lough gave it > to me, I think she got it from someone else. Measure the size of hole > you want and divide it by 5. Do you mean "the diameter of the hole you want"? > From the centre of the back piece, measure > 1 inch down and one-fifth of your measurement to each size, and draw > your scoop to that (allow for hemming when you cut). The measurement that you're taking the fifth of is the "size of hole you want" measure from the first part, right? -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 20:05:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5605Zqw005894 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:05:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5604aDH044523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:04:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5604W4X096498; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:04:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.23.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5604SZl096386 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:04:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 9493AA541AA for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:02:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bcimpnoz0qs8p0 (sclsnet-pri-38-ppp.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.108.38]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01C9A541AA for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:02:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Beth Chamberlain" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:04:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <000801c569df$5287eb70$16542fd8@Sandra> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 thread-index: AcVp36Uw64mZyj5bToSa6wXST0jxfwASvwlw Message-Id: <20050606000223.B01C9A541AA@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> X-VBSHLD-SCLID: A16A178967F X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Yeah, it's true. Corsets hold one into a rigidly upright posture - it's impossible to slouch, or to tie one's own shoelaces in a properly worn corset (All those people who CAN tie their shoelaces, well... how's your job in Cirque du Soleil going?).< You just have to pull your leg up sideways - as if you're going to sit cross-legged. I'm far from thin and I wear my corset fairly tight. But then, as a child I could hook my feet behind my neck. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 22:26:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j562QK04006643 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:26:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j562PLd5053915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:25:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j562PHds060224; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:25:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav6.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j562PF9Q060155 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:25:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:25:10 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 02:25:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:25:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2005 02:25:10.0115 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6359330:01C56A3E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: > > In a message dated 6/5/2005 5:09:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jaurbik@optonline.net writes: > > Do you mean in the front of the garment? > > No, they are inserted at the ends of the neck slits--that face out to the > shoulders. The point is put into the end of the slit, with the wide part > of > the gusset at the neck edge. But it probably wouldn't work for a > tunic--on a > shirt, the whole neckline is gathered/guaged onto the collar or band. > > Ann Wass Yes, but you usually make *neck slits* in those kinds of chemises, while a typical T-tunic has... well... any kind of opening you like. I make mine round with a front slit. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 22:33:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j562XqJl006667 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:33:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j562X026054589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:33:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j562X0Xr063700; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc3-s41.bay6.hotmail.com (omc3-s41.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.249.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j562WvRL063678 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:32:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.92]) by omc3-s41.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:32:56 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:32:56 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV20.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 02:32:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:30:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2005 02:32:56.0790 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C5E8760:01C56A40] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In making a t-tunic with the underarm gores, how big should the gores be? It also depends on the width of the sleeve. If the sleeve is very wide, you don't need gussets at all. If they're fairly tight, you want some kind of gusset. I think 8" is a little too big even for a XL size. I make mine 4" (of course, I'm tiny) but you would probably be happier with something like a 6" gusset. > Also, My guy is complaing that the arm seem seems too far down on his > sholder-i think this is just a fearture of a t-tunic (if the sholders are > where he want then, then his belly would NOT fit!) That's all right. It's like a T-shirt... except that the T-shirt stretches so it can be much tighter. The shoulder seam will go down on the arm on a T-tunic. If he wants it higher on the shoulder, he needs to get you to make him later styles :-) Good luck! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 5 23:10:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j563AX5V006766 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:10:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5639ipN057833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:09:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5639fRQ080584; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:09:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5639cH7080547 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:09:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m220.in-tch.com [216.166.191.220]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5634cV04822 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42A3BFC9.3050301@in-tch.com> Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:15:21 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths References: <20050606000223.B01C9A541AA@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> In-Reply-To: <20050606000223.B01C9A541AA@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL! I used to be able to do that when I was young, too, and could also slip on my shoes after getting corseted. *That,* alas, was pre-knee surgeries. *sigh* When the surgeon replaced my ACL, he tightened up things, so I'm no longer nearly as flexible as I used to be, which is supposed to be good from a medical standpoint (less flex, less chance of damaging them again), but which I find annoying when I run into something I can no longer do (shoe laces, lotus position, etc). --sue Beth Chamberlain wrote: >>Yeah, it's true. Corsets hold one into a rigidly upright posture - it's > > impossible to slouch, or to tie one's own shoelaces in a properly worn > corset (All those people who CAN tie their shoelaces, well... how's your > job in Cirque du Soleil going?).< > > You just have to pull your leg up sideways - as if you're going to sit > cross-legged. I'm far from thin and I wear my corset fairly tight. But then, > as a child I could hook my feet behind my neck. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 00:04:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5644OZl006980 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:04:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5641Zbj061502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:01:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5641PDe003462; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:01:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5641Moj003421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:01:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5641GWL008055 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:01:18 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:05:25 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <42A23DB2.70800@paradise.net.nz> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I rinse my hair two or three times a week. I did it twice a day at Pennsic because I was HOT and sweaty. I figured that all parts of my skin including the scalp got that way. However the only time I use anything else is when I'm coloring it (if God meant me to go grey he wouldn't have invented Revlon!). They it does the "hair like silk" stuff and I can't do anything with it. It won't stay up, it gets into my face, and it's just miserable to deal with. It's about mid back length now and very shiny and healthy. When a friend decided to try the rinse with water only and the oiliness began to drive her nuts we decided to try brushing it gently every night and morning 50 strokes (you need to be gentle because oily or wet hair will break) and then keeping her hair up in braids or a bun. The brushing (with a brush washed after every use with hot water) got the scruff that was causing the itching off her scalp and a hot towel at night, or simply the hot water rinse took care of the rest of it. After about 2 weeks she could just brush it and leave it down during the day. The oiliness had dissipated. Better yet, as the weeks went by, the dandruff problem she had since she was 16 also went away. I think it was flakes of dry skin from the shampooing rather than anything organic wrong with her. I've been doing this for the last 3 years and she for about 2. Neither of us are going back to the chemical stuff. Saves an amazing amount of hot water and time at events! Not to mention money for shampoos and then conditioners to put back the stuff you just washed out :-) Regina (your mileage may vary depending on scalp conditions) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 01:25:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j565PZnv007329 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:25:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j565N7I5067687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j565Mvok037943; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:22:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav16.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j565Ms77037855 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:22:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:22:49 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV16.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 05:22:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 01:22:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2005 05:22:49.0057 (UTC) FILETIME=[C76F0D10:01C56A57] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I've been doing this for the last 3 years and she for about 2. Neither of > us are going back to the chemical stuff. Saves an amazing amount of hot > water and time at events! Not to mention money for shampoos and then > conditioners to put back the stuff you just washed out :-) > > Regina > (your mileage may vary depending on scalp conditions) You know it works for skin too. I rarely use soap when I shower - basically, I use a tiny amount on my armpits and uh... other likely-to-smell areas, mostly to get rid of odour, but that's it. If I don't shower on a certain day for whatever reason, I'll wash my face with warm water. I know they say that living in a city and all, the skin accumulates dirt and pollution, but I've had much nicer skin since I stopped using soap... Of course, I'll wash my hands carefully with soap whenever needed - I don't want to think how disgusting some of the things they touch during a day must be! I'm wondering if we've just become intolerant to body smells, or if the fact that we shower so much and use so many chemicals makes us smell worse when we try to stop using them. Or might it just be something as simple as the fact that until recently, people had been wearing linen and cotton underwear? Or that we show more skin so the odour can... hmm... get out more easily? I know that for a time, some people refused to bathe (I'm thinking Renaissance, but I might be off). Not that they didn't clean themselves: they scraped and rubbed the grit out of their skins, and changed body linens. I don't know if they were any more dirty than people who took the required "once a week, dirty or not" bath. We were talking about costuming myths, and that might be one of the most widely spread - that people didn't clean themselves in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and that all their clothes were dirty. Hollywood might have something to do in perpetuating the myth... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 06:23:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56ANqkN009715 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:23:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56AMuQ6093104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56AMogE060573; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:22:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay10-dav31.bay10.hotmail.com [64.4.37.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56AMlqm060509 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 03:22:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 162.83.126.26 by BAY10-DAV31.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:22:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [162.83.126.26] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42A3735F.2030907@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric design Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:22:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:22:40 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2005 10:22:41.0914 (UTC) FILETIME=[AC0325A0:01C56A81] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j56ANqkN009715 Status: RO I think it would be highly unlikely a fabric design would remain popular over such a long span of time. There aren't any fashion elements that carried through the period AS IS, and fabrics change to suit the fashion. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rose Amberwulf To: Historical Costume Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:49 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fabric design Greetings everyone, This term I did an Independent Study course with one of most favorite instructors. Mary teaches Basic Design. Anyway, as I was coming up with some designs and looking at the history of fabric printing and seeing some great periods in designs. How feasible is it for someone to design fabrics that would have been used as far back as the 14th or 15th centuries and althrough the Victorian era? To many ideas and not enough time in a lifetime, Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 06:59:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56AxIlf009885 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:59:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56AwbSn003559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Awa0u074225; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j55KXCoj005863 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:33:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 9930 invoked from network); 5 Jun 2005 20:57:17 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:57:17 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1454.24.4.69.40.1118003592.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:33:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > hello all, here is another of my simplestic questions. > > In making a t-tunic with the underarm gores, how big should the gores > be? Yes i know that this depends on the size of the guy(mine wears > t-shirt size XL-Tall), but I am not sure of the proportions. I have the > body and the sleeves down ok, but i need to do work on the gores. I > currently have the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems too > big. How big are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? I would think that 8 inches is too big as you said. Maybe try 6 inches square. You can also make them diamond shaped as well if that helps. I think the diagonal distance should be the width of his underarm when raised. Then you can play with how long the other diagonal should be based on what will fit your fabric and cut. > Also, My guy is complaing that the arm seem seems too far down on his > sholder-i think this is just a fearture of a t-tunic (if the sholders > are where he want then, then his belly would NOT fit!) I think that you may be right here. However, if you wanted to do a modification of the t-tunic pattern, try cutting the arm opening as a diagonal starting from where the shoulder would be to where the tunic will be big enough for his chest and belly. Like this: ______________________ ----\ /---- \ | / \ / \ \ sleeve | / \ \___________________| | body | | | Then put your gore under the sleeve like normal. I am not sure if they would have done the tunic with a diagonal seam like this but they were also a lot skinnier in general than some of our men nowadays ;~> Good luck! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 06:59:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56AxQ8c009888 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:59:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Awo50003595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:58:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56AwosI074353; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:58:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55KeVpU008772 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:40:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 ([204.127.197.111]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050605204026014001khl3e>; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:40:26 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.111; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:40:24 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:40:24 +0000 Message-Id: <060520052040.11638.42A36338000D1FC300002D7622007374780809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The gusset under the arm is what (I think) should fix the issue of the sleeve shoulder seam complaint. For my men's XL gusset, I use a 5" square (with 1/2" seam allowance included, when sewn they will become a 4" square). Personally, I've found that if I use a true square, I get the full benefit of the 45 degree bias. Using a diamond shape reduces the bias stretch; and once you get the square into the underarm seam, it will automatically 'look' like a diamond shape. That's my .02 worth.... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > hello all, here is another of my simplestic questions. > > In making a t-tunic with the underarm gores, how big should the gores > be? Yes i know that this depends on the size of the guy(mine wears > t-shirt size XL-Tall), but I am not sure of the proportions. I have the > body and the sleeves down ok, but i need to do work on the gores. I > currently have the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems too > big. How big are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? > > Also, My guy is complaing that the arm seem seems too far down on his > sholder-i think this is just a fearture of a t-tunic (if the sholders > are where he want then, then his belly would NOT fit!) > > j schueller > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 06:59:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56AxWHw009891 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:59:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56AwsmV003622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56AwsOW074392; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j55KgKeW009491 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 14:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail25.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.165]) by smtpout02.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLG256AKX5LBJ for (sender ); Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:41:32 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn79/CA9Q95wkdZsvLzqFJA5J6dvl0wLHNpg== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail25.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KURSTTZL; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:41:07 PDT Received: from [24.14.7.158] by webmail25.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:40:32 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.7.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:40:32 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050605.134107.14191.286322@webmail25.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 5:2:2972819416 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.165|webmail25.nyc.untd.com|outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -- J Schueller wrote: hello all, here is another of my simplestic questions. In making a t-tunic with the underarm gores, how big should the gores be? Yes i know that this depends on the size of the guy(mine wears t-shirt size XL-Tall), but I am not sure of the proportions. I have the body and the sleeves down ok, but i need to do work on the gores. I currently have the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems too big. How big are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? I take it you mean gussets? Seems pendantic, I know, but gores are vaguely triangular pieces that make hemlines bigger while gussets give expanding room between two seams.....want to be sure we are tlaking about the same thing. The gussets I make under my arms are about 4 inches on a side. I suppose for an extra-large sized guy you could go to 5 or 6 inches on a side, but I agree that 8 is just too much- they'd be hanging down like pouches when the guy's arms weren't raised! Also, My guy is complaing that the arm seem seems too far down on his sholder-i think this is just a fearture of a t-tunic (if the sholders are where he want then, then his belly would NOT fit!) Well, as far as I know, the shoulder seam on a t-tunic should fall about 1/3 of the way down the guy's upper arm. If it won't fit over his belly at that size tell him either to lose some weight (*snort*) or use a couple of those gores starting at about chest level and widening down to the hem. That should give him the extra tummy room he needs. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 06:59:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56AxcIr009895 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:59:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Ax3IE003674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:59:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Ax2IY074511; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:59:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j55Mit5h062481 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:44:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHM00CZKV6PPO@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:45:32 -0400 From: J Schueller In-reply-to: <42A375AA.2050402@optonline.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A3808C.2060007@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> <42A375AA.2050402@optonline.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] t-tunics for children X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, so my sister-in-law just got me her kids measurements. Basic a boy sized 8 and a girl sized 6. I am going to make up a host of t-tunics for them also. How big should I make the squares(or two triangles) that go under the arms? Unlike my husband, theses are two states away, so i can NOT put the tunics on them snd see what fits. thanks for all the good comments, j schueller _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 06:59:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56Axr3j009901 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:59:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Ax9l8003748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:59:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Ax9Eq074583; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:59:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail.avalon.net (root@webmail.avalon.net [216.137.72.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5601QqM094984 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elinor@avalon.net) Received: from [216.137.70.29] (v90-29.avalon.net [216.137.70.29]) by webmail.avalon.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j560B9WI013348 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:11:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A3924C.5060001@avalon.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:01:16 -0500 From: Elinor Salter User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.1 (Windows/20040626) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO J Schueller wrote on 6/5/2005 3:11 PM: > hello all, here is another of my simplestic questions. > > In making a t-tunic with the underarm gores, how big should the gores > be? Yes i know that this depends on the size of the guy(mine wears > t-shirt size XL-Tall), but I am not sure of the proportions. I have > the body and the sleeves down ok, but i need to do work on the gores. > I currently have the gores being square of about 8 inchs, which seems > too big. How big are the gores on the tunics you make for guys? > Also, My guy is complaing that the arm seem seems too far down on his > sholder-i think this is just a fearture of a t-tunic (if the sholders > are where he want then, then his belly would NOT fit!) > > j schueller > Are you talking about the underarm gussets instead of gores? Maggie Forest has a wonderful article in which she has an equation to figure it out, as well as how to figure out the other proportions at http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML. For underarm gussets (which always look too large to me) she suggests: 2 * [length of body panel (or shoulder to hem with allowance) - length of gores (or waist to hem with allowances)] / 3 If you were talking about gores, make them as wide as you want, although 8" does not sound long enough (which is why I think you were talking about gussets). Here's some approximate measurements from one of my husband's old comfy t-tunics (6'4" with a 48" waist, 2XLT) if you would like an idea: Body panel - 30" by 46" Sleeve panel - 19" by 20" Gusset - 3" by 3" Gore panel - 9" by 32" (cut in half diagonally, of course) (all are width by length, add about 1" to each measurement for seam allowances) Hmm...if I use the formula, he should have 9" gussets, but it looks and fits alright to me. I forget how I determined how large they must be. *hits head* It was probably a handout my local laurel did. I'll have to find it again and see what she recommended. Maybe that's why the t-tunics I recently made for my son seemed a bit odd, since I went back and used Maggie Forest's site for a refresher course. Then again I made it way too big for him anyways, so it's hard to tell. Now as for the shoulders, this is something I've pondered over the past year but haven't found much time to work on the question. My husband and I are large people, so if we use the regular t-tunic pattern, we end up with shoulder points way down our arms too ( my husband measures is 18" from shoulder point to shoulder point, so on the tunic above, the shoulders are 6" down his arms!) Has anyone seen any period depictions of people wearing tunics like this? I've looked through some of my favorite sources (Maciejowski Bible, Manesse Codex, etc) but either haven't seen any or the artist didn't bother with that detail. I haven't seen illustrations of larger people until the Renaissance. Has anyone tried to work with the basic t-tunic pattern to solve this problem? I've thought that maybe making the body panel a trapezoid (narrower at the top) or just cutting a slant where the sleeves are attached might work. I haven't had time to sketch it all out and then do a mockup though. Do any of you have thoughts on this? Not period construction, but a fix to achieve period appearance, I guess. -- Elinor Salter "Re-enactor Resource Center" … now does that sound more impressive than fabric stash"? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 07:00:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56B0Ego009910 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Axae6003914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56AxZw0074818; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j564G5ip010000 for ; Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:16:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j564G328031538 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:16:03 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.80.30] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j564G4uh376234 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 00:16:04 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050605205806.02609c90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:01:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric design In-Reply-To: <42A3735F.2030907@pcez.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >How feasible is it for someone to design fabrics that would have been used >as far back as the 14th or 15th centuries and althrough the Victorian era? I do know that quilters are always looking for fabrics from the late 1700s thru the early 20th Century. I should think re-enactors would also be looking for these. These repro-fabrics are sold today, especially in the high-end quilt specialty shops, so there has to be some kind of market for them, if only to quilters. What I don't know about is actual feasibility, nor how to break into that market. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 07:06:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56B60B8009935 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:06:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56B04TI004138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:00:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56B03Qq075189; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:00:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j56AadXt065654 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:36:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 67526 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2005 10:36:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2005 10:36:34 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606113020.014e00f8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:34:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric design In-Reply-To: References: <42A3735F.2030907@pcez.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:22 06/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I think it would be highly unlikely a fabric design would remain popular >over such a long span of time. There aren't any fashion elements that >carried through the period AS IS, and fabrics change to suit the fashion. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rose Amberwulf > To: Historical Costume > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 5:49 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Fabric design > > > Greetings everyone, > > This term I did an Independent Study course with one of most > favorite instructors. Mary teaches Basic Design. Anyway, as I was > coming up with some designs and looking at the history of fabric > printing and seeing some great periods in designs. How feasible is it > for someone to design fabrics that would have been used as far back as > the 14th or 15th centuries and althrough the Victorian era? > > To many ideas and not enough time in a lifetime, > Roscelin The Victorians were very keen on "Gothic" designs, tapestries and so on, and many of the Pugin designs used when the Houses of Parliament were rebuilt (19th century) are based particularly on the "pineapple" and "pomegranate" figures. These fabrics can still be purchased, mostly for Church vestments, at Whipples in Westminster, I think) and Perkins who do mail order. http://www.mperkins.com/ There is another source which I cannot recall right now. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 07:44:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56BiYAs010196 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:44:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Bhm12008488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:43:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56BfNJk092148; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:41:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail8.mdx.safepages.com (mail8.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56BfKub092128 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:41:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 621BB143441; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:41:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.7.8.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.7.8]) by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 52E581432D3 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:41:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00f201c56a8c$d9c8d330$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42A3735F.2030907@pcez.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050606113020.014e00f8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric design Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:42:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" > ...rebuilt (19th century) are based particularly on the "pineapple" and > "pomegranate" figures. I seem to recall seeing vase/urn-based designs quite a lot over most of the period in question, too; at least as far back as the early 16th century, and for almost everything in between except possibly the early 19th century. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 07:48:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56BmC1A010217 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:48:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56BlNGN008931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:47:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Bj3aN093848; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:45:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j56BiwEo093737 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 05:45:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 30911 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2005 11:44:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2005 11:44:52 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606123742.014e0320@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:42:57 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:22 06/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >>I've been doing this for the last 3 years and she for about 2. Neither of >>us are going back to the chemical stuff. Saves an amazing amount of hot >>water and time at events! Not to mention money for shampoos and then >>conditioners to put back the stuff you just washed out :-) >> >>Regina >>(your mileage may vary depending on scalp conditions) > >You know it works for skin too. I rarely use soap when I shower - >basically, I use a tiny amount on my armpits and uh... other >likely-to-smell areas, mostly to get rid of odour, but that's it. If I >don't shower on a certain day for whatever reason, I'll wash my face with >warm water. I know they say that living in a city and all, the skin >accumulates dirt and pollution, but I've had much nicer skin since I >stopped using soap... Of course, I'll wash my hands carefully with soap >whenever needed - I don't want to think how disgusting some of the things >they touch during a day must be! I haven't deliberately washed my face since I was 18, and discovered that soap was what was giving me spots. I carefully cleanse tone and moisturise like it says on the label, and my skin is far better than some of my contemporaries who use soap and water. (I'm 62 by the way). London water is very hard, so I strip wash rather than shower for the same reason - it just takes off layers of skin no matter what I have tried. However, it is good for your arteries, so I just drink lots. I'm also of the "once a week" brigade re washing my hair - used to be waistlength , heavy and thick, and took hours and hours to dry, so learned that one ages ago. Also it used to be dry and fluffy - now is normal! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 08:15:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56CFtAu010348 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56CF7oV010855 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:15:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56CEhhl006720; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:14:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56CEeNm006688 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:14:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be51.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.81]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 1E9335EE0C8 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:14:23 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000401c56a91$4bd06d40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:14:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/916/Mon Jun 6 04:09:20 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk chenille stumpwork X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Not to change topics, but i would like to share that i have made progress with the stumpwork dress in silk chenille thread. Each overskirt panels have 7 bouquets and then 3 on the underskirt. I plan to make the sleave ruffles with small bouquets also. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 09:05:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56D59ni010599 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:05:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56D3Zm1014516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56D2vqh028441; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:02:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j56D2rmS028384 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 67639 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2005 13:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2005 13:02:47 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606135532.014e0470@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:00:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <20050603.081243.-740223.0.penhalion@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's stump work embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, that is so pretty. You are very skilled and I congratulate you. It must have taken, and will take, hours. I would like to ask you a question about stump work. I recently went to a study day on 17th costume and accessories, and we got to see an exquisite stump work box from the later part of the 17th century - 1665-70. The conservator told us that stump work was only found in England between 1620 and 1680, and nowhere else. Do you have evidence that contradicts this? I would be most interested to know, so I could go back and argue with her. I love arguing with experts! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 09:21:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56DLQeg010693 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:21:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56DK9A0015867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:20:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56DHkXx035823; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:17:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53110.mail.yahoo.com (web53110.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.213]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j56DHiXs035764 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:17:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mlysett@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 74016 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2005 13:17:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZKqBqKtrbpJkgHoF2HKhJBAUMHN2UKy3Huye8oQ7qX7GZvw6CSBwW1QaJemVIwiHWwGkMKJ+/mvZFScjcJDUETKFmfHz96o4Vd+CSOGkx1Hge4wY0ikkmtunqURqN/J2Dd6WfcU4rKAOI+JJK3avv1qIGcWd9JkBADu6wDPTUUA= ; Message-ID: <20050606131739.74014.qmail@web53110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [167.102.229.223] by web53110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 06:17:39 PDT Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:17:39 -0700 (PDT) From: mlysett Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it helps this discussion any, the portrait of Nicholas Throckmorton can be see here: http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Throckmorton,Nicholas(Sir).jpg On my monitor, I can clearly see the bag the kerchief is in. Margaret __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 09:24:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56DOZxZ010720 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56DNq7L016270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:23:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56DLUmg037684; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:21:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56DLS40037658 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be51.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.81]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7022547FEC1 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:21:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c56a9a$ae83d3b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606135532.014e0470@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's stump work embroidery Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:21:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Suzi, First, stumpwork can be many things, but your expert perhaps only calculate work with wire as real stumpwork. There are jackets from Elizabethan time wich has 3 dimensional embroidery made with needle weaving this i also call stumpwork, but as i am no expert in this, i wont dare to say so. In my memory there is stumpwork in Denmark two, i have seen boxes in the museum of decoratif art, but it could be that it has english origin, even it is in a museum in Denmark. As for 18th century there is a closeup photo in the Revolution of fashion book with a stomacher. And the flowers looks like stumpwork flowers to me. They at least are 3 dimensional flowers cut out and mounted on the stomacher. I wished that the revolution book had closeup photos of the chenille ornament flowers wich shows on the dress i make after, and the neckband has a bunch of flowers made of chenille threads. But it also could be that those flowers just are artificially made flowers made in chenille thread. However it is true that the highliht of stumpwork is 17th century. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's stump work embroidery > > Bjarne, that is so pretty. You are very skilled and I congratulate you. It > must have taken, and will take, hours. > > I would like to ask you a question about stump work. I recently went to a > study day on 17th costume and accessories, and we got to see an exquisite > stump work box from the later part of the 17th century - 1665-70. The > conservator told us that stump work was only found in England between 1620 > and 1680, and nowhere else. Do you have evidence that contradicts this? I > would be most interested to know, so I could go back and argue with her. I > love arguing with experts! > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 09:51:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56DpTxg010863 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:51:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56DoWxu019802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:50:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Dm4QK055277; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:48:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56DlxuE055174 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:47:54 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:47:44 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use mostly rosemary, --Robin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks! I have rosemary in the garden (actually survived the last to Kansas winters) so I may give this a try. And I vaguely remember when this thread poped up before but appreciate everyone's additional input. Vacation is coming up so that is probably a good time to get through the ugly stage :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 09:54:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56Ds6jv010874 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:54:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56DrINO020031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:53:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Dov6c057028; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:50:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j56DosLK056943 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:50:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLJXESAXUTX9J for (sender ); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:50:08 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgpibOT9sSuQ4GQ6l3v6CkAY= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUTMNTMM; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 06:49:28 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:46:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk chenille stumpwork Message-ID: <20050606.064833.3456.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-32 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 12:6:1121749347 X-MAIL-INFO: 513e4ebffb434e4b3b874be33b836b7b0a479bd702876e67cebf02eb23bf0e1f027b43f747bfab6fbf03a71fa7fb4e3f37339bcf9f37bb3fc3872abbdaeaae9eeaa30b1e270f9e0fd7d7bbd33aded37aebdecada6afe4f9a7363474a932fcb5fc3278e5ba3eafefba7baa73b5a873b5a37cf5a370bfe0fe77f771b6fe7bfd7131b8fbfaa0e0abf1f3e23fbdefb4b3f372e5afbcf X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's always wonderful to see your work, Bjarne. Beautiful and awe inspiring! Arlys On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:14:11 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hi, > Not to change topics, but i would like to share that i have made > progress > with the stumpwork dress in silk chenille thread. > Each overskirt panels have 7 bouquets and then 3 on the underskirt. > I plan to make the sleave ruffles with small bouquets also. > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm > > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 09:58:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56DwiCI010889 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:58:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Dvxv4020476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:57:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56DtcUY059887; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56DtaWX059855 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DfI4l-00028i-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:55:35 -0400 Message-ID: <42A455E6.8070800@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 06:55:50 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric design References: <42A3735F.2030907@pcez.com> In-Reply-To: <42A3735F.2030907@pcez.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am not sure I really understand the question. Are you asking if a design would remain popular for the entire period, or are you asking about the are you asking what the saleability of these items would be? Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 10:03:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56E3GWp010931 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:03:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56E2cbN020982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:02:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56E2bdi063939; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:02:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56E2YCs063915 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DfIBW-00047Q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:02:34 -0400 Message-ID: <42A4578B.7070904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 07:02:51 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606135532.014e0470@127.0.0.1> <000f01c56a9a$ae83d3b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000f01c56a9a$ae83d3b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne's stump work embroidery-missed the link X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I missed the original link....could you resend? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 10:14:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56EEm0x011040 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:14:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56EDo1U022228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:13:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56EDmbi070441; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:13:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav12.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56EDiEH070339 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:13:39 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:13:39 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> <42A3924C.5060001@avalon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:13:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2005 14:13:39.0475 (UTC) FILETIME=[EFC32630:01C56AA1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Has anyone tried to work with the basic t-tunic pattern to solve this > problem? I've thought that maybe making the body panel a trapezoid > (narrower at the top) or just cutting a slant where the sleeves are > attached might work. I haven't had time to sketch it all out and then do a > mockup though. Do any of you have thoughts on this? Not period > construction, but a fix to achieve period appearance, I guess. > > Elinor Salter When I do early 13th C clothing, I start the side gores as high as possible - right at the garment armpit, when I can. That might help with your problem. It would give you a little extra width around the belly, but not so much around the shoulders. I guess you could do the same with front and back gores if you want, I usually put them in only at the sides, because I like the hang better that way. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 10:39:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56Ed1v6011244 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:39:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Ec5lj025466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:38:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Ec3BG086727; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:38:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Ec0ws086642 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:38:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc75.asp.att.net[204.127.197.157]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <20050606143754014003knpse>; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:37:54 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.223] by 204.127.197.111; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:37:52 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] silk chenille stumpwork Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:37:52 +0000 Message-Id: <060620051437.3585.42A45FC00001635100000E0122064246130809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Darlin', you can change the subject any ol' time! Your work is *always* exquiste and well worth the segue! Once again wiping the drool off my keyboard... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Hi, > Not to change topics, but i would like to share that i have made progress > with the stumpwork dress in silk chenille thread. > Each overskirt panels have 7 bouquets and then 3 on the underskirt. > I plan to make the sleave ruffles with small bouquets also. > > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/chenillestumpwork.htm > > > Bjarne > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 11:04:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56F4MeT011374 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:04:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56F3Mo4029030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56F3Goh005250; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:03:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56F3CTf005195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:03:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:46138 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DfJ8C-0000Wi-Qp for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:03:13 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.3 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3754.198.93.211.3.1118070193.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:03:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.3 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > You know it works for skin too. I rarely use soap when I shower - > basically, I use a tiny amount on my armpits and uh... other > likely-to-smell areas, mostly to get rid of odour, but that's it. If I > don't shower on a certain day for whatever reason, I'll wash my face > with warm water. I know they say that living in a city and all, the > skin accumulates dirt and pollution, but I've had much nicer skin since > I stopped using soap... Of course, I'll wash my hands carefully with > soap whenever needed - I don't want to think how disgusting some of the > things they touch during a day must be! I'm the same way, it started with my face, since it is sensitive to oils in face cleaners. > > I'm wondering if we've just become intolerant to body smells, or if the > fact that we shower so much and use so many chemicals makes us smell > worse when we try to stop using them. Or might it just be something as > simple as the fact that until recently, people had been wearing linen > and cotton underwear? A little of both is my idea, plus our unnatural diet. > that > people didn't clean themselves in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and > that all their clothes were dirty. Hollywood might have something to do > in perpetuating the myth... On another victorian list there was a link to an article done by a reporter who was allowed to spend a couple days on the site of a "colonial House" experiment they did recently in Australia. He said the people were so dirty and their clothing was so dirty that the directors had to forbid him to trade clothing with the envious colonists even if they begged him to. In their case I assume the problem would have been lack of water, in the case of the Dark age people, and others, it is said to have been a religious reaction to what they percieved as the excessive bathing of the "heathen" opressors, (the Moors, I believe) sort of "the heathen bathe so therefore it follows that dirt is next to godliness" The moors primarily occupied spain though, and the eastern part of europe suffered under a different opressor at the time, (the Huns?) so that might be a myth or a partial myth for all I know. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 11:22:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56FMPa2011547 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:22:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56FKnrJ031626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:20:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56FKiem019204; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:20:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j56FKdHO019083 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:20:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 3231 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2005 15:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jun 2005 15:20:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606161425.014e0750@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:18:43 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's stump work embroidery In-Reply-To: <000f01c56a9a$ae83d3b0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606135532.014e0470@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:21 06/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Suzi, >First, stumpwork can be many things, but your expert perhaps only >calculate work with wire as real stumpwork. I do not know what work with wire is, but what she was showing certainly was what I have always thought of as stump work. >There are jackets from Elizabethan time wich has 3 dimensional embroidery >made with needle weaving this i also call stumpwork, but as i am no expert >in this, i wont dare to say so. This is normally done over a padding, or sating stitch base. I have been looking at embroidered jackets in museums recently, and am pretty sure that most raised embroidery is done like this. >In my memory there is stumpwork in Denmark two, i have seen boxes in the >museum of decoratif art, but it could be that it has english origin, even >it is in a museum in Denmark. >As for 18th century there is a closeup photo in the Revolution of fashion >book with a stomacher. And the flowers looks like stumpwork flowers to me. >They at least are 3 dimensional flowers cut out and mounted on the stomacher. I agree they look like stumpwork, and I can certainly see chenille threads, but if I was reproducing these flowers, I would use plaited braid, as on my copy of the Kyoto book "Fashion" that is what I see. I would welcome any other opinions. I think the flowers are made up an a tiny circular base from rounds of braid. >I wished that the revolution book had closeup photos of the chenille >ornament flowers wich shows on the dress i make after, and the neckband >has a bunch of flowers made of chenille threads. >But it also could be that those flowers just are artificially made flowers >made in chenille thread. >However it is true that the highliht of stumpwork is 17th century. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 11:42:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56Fgk0I011716 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:42:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56FfvQ8034525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:41:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Ffsgq036168; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:41:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from galaxy.systems.pipex.net (galaxy.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.31]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56FfndP036012 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by galaxy.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B9EBAE0002AD for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:41:42 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <004901c56aae$5f4a8460$0200a8c0@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:42:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Please Help Date A Corset X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear List Members, a friend of mine - another lacemaker - has agreed that I can pass on her message to you all, in the hope that someone may be able to cast light on her new purchase. We are both very grateful for any attention that you may be willing to spare, and I will pass on to her all suggestions. Yours sincerely, Linda Walton, (High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). Here are the details:- . . . While I was away this weekend I bought from a junk stall a delightful pink satin "corset". I don't know a lot about underwear and wonder if there is anyone that could give me some ideas about date. It is waist length (10" from the highest arch of the bust shape), the front boned top to bottom. There is a 2" wide elasticated panel in the centre back and two small elastic gussets at the lower back edge. It does up down the centre front with silver colour hooks and eyes. The elastic panel edges are turned over top and bottom with a 1/4" hem and it is finished with a form of multiple thread machine stitch. The rest of the stitching is straight stitch. There is no evidence of there ever having been a label inside the garment. The lace content is at the front over the bust, where the top shape curves (between 2" and 3" deep), there is a double layer of hexagonal machine net with three twists on the main zig-zag horizontal line and one twist on the vertical connecting bars. The outer layer of net is decorated with a coached design. I believe that this is hand done as the coaching stitches appear to be a single thread, are not related to the net, are long on the back (as far as I can see through the other layer) and each repeat is subtly different in shape and size. It is in a box (which may, of course, not belong to it) with a large picture of a double ended axe with and the words "The Double Axe Brand Corsetry" and Trademark written along and under the picture. Beneath is the description "The Corsets that have Stood the Test of Time" On the end of the box it repeats the trademark picture with its wording, then "Double Axe Company" again in big letters (in case you missed it). The quality is marked as SB2, colour Tea-Rose and size 7. All in all, it is delightful but I would like to know a little bit more about it and the sort of clothes it would have been worn under. Many thanks, Jacquie. - _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 13:57:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56Hv0pj012868 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:57:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56Hte8h055439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:55:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Hta3T048381; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56Hssac047960 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:55:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be51.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.81]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F0D6547FE25 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:54:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001e01c56ac0$dbb16bb0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050606135532.014e0470@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050606161425.014e0750@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's stump work embroidery Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:54:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Suzi, The books i have learned stumpwork from, shows you how to outline your stumpwork projekts with milliners wire. You outline the motif with wire and buttonhole stitch it close together all the way round the wire. Then you sew the motif with the stitches you want to use, and finally cut out the motif. You can pad it and shape it to get the right look. This is how i do my stumpwork, but i am not aware if this is a new method or the original 17th century way to do it. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne's stump work embroidery > At 15:21 06/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi Suzi, >>First, stumpwork can be many things, but your expert perhaps only >>calculate work with wire as real stumpwork. > > I do not know what work with wire is, but what she was showing certainly > was what I have always thought of as stump work. > >>There are jackets from Elizabethan time wich has 3 dimensional embroidery >>made with needle weaving this i also call stumpwork, but as i am no expert >>in this, i wont dare to say so. > > This is normally done over a padding, or sating stitch base. I have been > looking at embroidered jackets in museums recently, and am pretty sure > that most raised embroidery is done like this. > >>In my memory there is stumpwork in Denmark two, i have seen boxes in the >>museum of decoratif art, but it could be that it has english origin, even >>it is in a museum in Denmark. >>As for 18th century there is a closeup photo in the Revolution of fashion >>book with a stomacher. And the flowers looks like stumpwork flowers to me. >>They at least are 3 dimensional flowers cut out and mounted on the >>stomacher. > > I agree they look like stumpwork, and I can certainly see chenille > threads, but if I was reproducing these flowers, I would use plaited > braid, as on my copy of the Kyoto book "Fashion" that is what I see. I > would welcome any other opinions. I think the flowers are made up an a > tiny circular base from rounds of braid. > >>I wished that the revolution book had closeup photos of the chenille >>ornament flowers wich shows on the dress i make after, and the neckband >>has a bunch of flowers made of chenille threads. >>But it also could be that those flowers just are artificially made flowers >>made in chenille thread. >>However it is true that the highliht of stumpwork is 17th century. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 14:05:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56I5t1d012927 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:05:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56I5CTg056853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:05:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56I5AO2056692; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:05:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56I55Wf056596 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:05:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be51.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.81]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 77F9C5EE07C for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c56ac2$4bd11340$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:05:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] embroidery mystery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I dont know if any of you remember a coupple of years back, i was telling you about an unfinished embroidered dress i examined, wich was said to have ben ment to be presented to Marie Antoinette? There were some small "rings" or strings of embroidered pearls wich i could not figure out how was done. Some time ago, i found out how it was done. I was embroidering bullion roses, and bullion stitches were new to me. Then suddently i realised that these rings, was made with only 1 long bullion stitch starting and ending the same place and shaped in a cirkle. Boy am i glad i found that out!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 14:13:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56IDxlQ013007 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:13:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56IDIbb058101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:13:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56IDGMU063318; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56IDBAC063162 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.15d.5252e4ca (15888) for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R33 (fwm-r33.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.137]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-3e1042a4922d32b; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:13:02 -0400 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:13:01 -0400 From: tearoses@aol.com Message-Id: <8C738DA82E8A511-B4C-7C6A@FWM-R33.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User Received: from 216.23.116.42 by FWM-R33.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.137) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:13:01 -0400 X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.137 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Men's peasant costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've finally gotten my new Bruegel book into the same room with a scanner, so I've uploaded the painting I was talking about to my Epson photoalbum here: http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4293000&a=31783828&f= I misremembered the title; it's actually called "The Corn Harvesters." The one guy has his back to the "camera" and you can clearly see the seamlines on his hose. I have another example in the same book which I will put up soon so you can see it. I'm sure you all know how to make them like this already, but I hadn't realized before that there is no seam on the front or sides of their hose. The pattern it takes to make this is very different from modern pants, but I think it would be easier to fit. I know the recent discussion about men's necklines was in reference to early-period t-tunics, but as you can see, in Flanders in 1565, there is no slit or collar and the neck opening is clearly large enough for the head to pass through. The guy on the left looks like he could probably get his hat through the neck opening too, if he wanted to. I'm also uploading a sketch by Bruegel that shows the front of a peasant man's hose. Bruegel is very consistent in the number and placement of the points in all of his paintings. Most peasants apparently let the points at the waist dangle, but I do have one painting that shows a man with his jerkin tied to his hoseby means of these points. What I found interesting was that the points are invariably tipped with metal aiglettes. I suppose I thought peasants would be too poor to have so many metal bits on their costumes, but aiglettes, lacing rings and buckles seem to be commonplace. I apologize if these observations seem very old-news to the rest of you, but I'm new at this. :) Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 14:14:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56IEh4D013017 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:14:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56IDvPM058214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:13:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56IDuFF063935; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56IDqn7063870 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goddessandqueen@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id b11so840969rne for ; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:13:51 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Jtqaf5A51YmT6WoPVTE259IDCTM4NLBRZEh7V9gGhqawcQ43oiFe++42P9IaRIheexYZ4fnRXq6PRWQK4pFIO/CycG9jN4NfUWVMxduggZuJ5KhqNTP3iGbmTfbBeRXZ7YTrLkO5MJbVbHPW4oqyh9MLGqsDzxNph7h/C/i77pQ= Received: by 10.38.71.22 with SMTP id t22mr409656rna; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.73.64 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6107d9c105060611134c435288@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:13:51 -0500 From: pixel To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ladies carrying knives In-Reply-To: <42A02DC5.1060202@pcez.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <42A02DC5.1060202@pcez.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j56IDqn7063870 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a photo of what might be a knife hanging at a woman's belt. It's on a statue on the west front of Wells Cathedral, but I haven't been through the sculpture program to figure out who she is. She's got a pouch and then there's this *thing* behind it that unfortunately is a little hard to see because she's about thirty feet up and we were on the ground. But it's long and narrow, and it could be a knife or it could be a pen case. Margaret/Pixel On 6/3/05, Rose Amberwulf wrote: > In my search about women in the late 13th through the 14th centuries, > I can find any info about women carrying any form of knife/dagger. Do > any of you know if women ever did carry any form of a blade? If I > understand correctly they carried a pouch and possibly a rosary (which I > am having problems finding what one actually looked like even looking at > pictures). > Thanks for any help. And by the way, it looks like I finally get to > start to work on stuffed toy horse next week. A doll maker friend is > going to sit down with me and help me make my first ever doll/animal. > I'll take some pictures as soon as it is done. I guess that leads to > another question. When taking pictures of projects; is it best to make > a photo journal of the steps I take in any of my projects? > > Roscelin > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 14:53:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56IrIww013335 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:53:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56IqHb3063688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:52:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56IqFQU095317; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:52:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j56IqC0f095225 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:52:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 60794 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jun 2005 18:52:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QamsHGOnhW9LB9mZ3PtsVC9B6KayvXU64zaC/D24NBtThiH01jglipXTWm5IygRhiSa6Dintt+Ic0hWmJZHEVUqTtbsxxweOpZuGPnhv1XX22f0D4ooZegFTlybSOPjsHXzy7iijJAmNX0R6Qgx9cBi4kLeSaiQjieJvqegsFoY= ; Message-ID: <20050606185207.60792.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:52:07 PDT Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:52:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidery mystery To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000501c56ac2$4bd11340$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Bjarne, As always, your work is SUCH an inspiration. When do you sleep ? :) Question on this, could you see if it was tacked down? Thanks! Chris G. Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, I dont know if any of you remember a coupple of years back, i was telling you about an unfinished embroidered dress i examined, wich was said to have ben ment to be presented to Marie Antoinette? There were some small "rings" or strings of embroidered pearls wich i could not figure out how was done. Some time ago, i found out how it was done. I was embroidering bullion roses, and bullion stitches were new to me. Then suddently i realised that these rings, was made with only 1 long bullion stitch starting and ending the same place and shaped in a cirkle. Boy am i glad i found that out!!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 15:19:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56JJEBB013569 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:19:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56JIJEs067172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:18:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56JHsaX016033; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56JH2Rg015194 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j56JGx28016905 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:16:59 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.80.30] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j56JGtdJ086454 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:17:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050606115250.024f3030@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:54:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Men's peasant costume In-Reply-To: <8C738DA82E8A511-B4C-7C6A@FWM-R33.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'm also uploading a sketch by Bruegel that shows the front of a peasant >man's hose. Bruegel is very consistent in the number and placement of the >points in all of his paintings. I looked at the placement of the points on the guy in the sketch who is facing us, and I looked at the jeans I'm wearing, and the points are just about where my belt loops are. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 16:13:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56KDF3I014091 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56KCT5B074798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:12:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56KCLxl060189; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:12:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56FssFv046941 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:54:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:54:48 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004901c56aae$5f4a8460$0200a8c0@bella> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Please Help Date A Corset Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:54:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2005 15:54:48.0873 (UTC) FILETIME=[1167C990:01C56AB0] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Without a picture, it'll be hard to identify it. But elastic at least tells me that it's fairly recent. Double Axe Brand Corsetry only turns up this page http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14909&themeback=3&CostumeTheme=Underwear That one is dated 1900-1910, and we learn that Double Axe is a British company. Sorry I can't be more help... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 16:14:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56KEQIR014101 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:14:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56KDZQc074922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:13:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56KDZ6n061172; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56KDTJr061011 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:13:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so1309121wra for ; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:13:24 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=dGbETHwBsT4nJq5l0p7QT7iziM+dIgIA2yY7mXgRaJqj01kautI/8qcBl28x1pjf47wPGW5tQRz8o5BtFs0uyQHlr0YkuXHrarVTYj8Z3U0WRf11Ld1Rp0QoM1n88xB1WYFF4ZIivGdvajGpY8bIoL44yTVl+0toqYWdhAeg3Uo= Received: by 10.54.115.3 with SMTP id n3mr3386356wrc; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 13:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05060613123cedc153@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:12:50 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? In-Reply-To: <32593c332548c2.32548c232593c3@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <32593c332548c2.32548c232593c3@optonline.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j56KDTJr061011 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sometimes crinoline was used instead of buckram; sometimes it's easier to find. Is the piece wired? If so, you could use some satin or iron-on interfacing or anything else since this piece is protecting the stitches and not suppporting the shape. If you really need the buckram to keep the shape that's a bit different. I only have the very heavy buckram and black crinoline in my stash. I could send you some of the heavy but it might be TOO heavy. Contact me off list. You may need the regular weight buckram, which I don't have. Maybe someone else can help you? And sometimes you can restiffen the buckram. Let me know if you want some instruction on that - very simple to do, tiresome for others to read. Are you the bride? LynnD On 6/3/05, purplkat@optonline.net wrote: > I am trying to re-furbish my mother's wedding headpiece/ crown. > > However it has been ravaged by 42 years of neglect. It is in amazingly good condition - however the stiffener (buckram?) has gone and it needs to be replaced. > > This is the item that is on the 'back' of the headpiece, that protects the beadwork stitching from damage. > > All I need is a piece 3 1/2" wide by 16" long (I've included 'fudge factor' ) I carefully detached the old piece and can use it as a template for the new one. > > The old piece seemed to have a sorta slipery/ satin-y side out and a webbing/ fiberous type stuff against the stiching. It also appears to be glued (pasted) on. > > My local fabric stores don't carry anything like this, the only thing closest is either iron-on fusing or heavy duck/ canvas. > > Can anyone help me here? > The wedding is July 10th and I would like to get all of the sewing done by the end of June. > > Thanks > Katheryne > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 16:14:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56KEiL5014107 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:14:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56KE2jh074990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56KE1c2061530; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56GLnF4069553 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHO00HO5847GQ@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.30] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.122]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:21:43 -0400 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:21:43 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths To: Historical Costume Message-id: <37448063742c47.3742c473744806@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a nice 'gague' to see if a corset will work for all the moving I do in a day. I put the prototype on (wiht boning) and sit down at the sewing machine. If I can sew for over an hour - with all stretching, moving, twisting, etc needed - and I am STILL comfortable it is a good fit. * Otherwise I mark the problem area(s), fix, and go back to sewing. When the final version is done, I not only can tie my own shoes, I can sit at my spinning wheel for hours, and even bend and pick up stuff from the ground without problems. Katheryne * my sewing machine sits on a low coffee table, and the seat for the machine is a child's stool. So I have to do a lot of twisting and reaching for all the material, thread, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Clemenger > LOL! I used to be able to do that when I was young, too, and could > also slip on my shoes after getting corseted. *That,* alas, was pre- > knee surgeries. *sigh* --sue > > Beth Chamberlain wrote: > >>Yeah, it's true. Corsets hold one into a rigidly upright posture > - it's impossible to slouch, or to tie one's own shoelaces in a > properly worn corset (All those people who CAN tie their shoelaces, well... > how's your job in Cirque du Soleil going?).< _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 16:59:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56Kx4LO014516 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:59:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56KvYkp082060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:57:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56KvPou098130; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56KvFlk097994 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DfOeo-000Jam-70 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 20:57:14 +0000 Message-ID: <8$kJJcFIhLpCJw39@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:55:36 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> <200506051900.25459.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200506051900.25459.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/917/Mon Jun 6 14:18:15 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/917/Mon Jun 6 14:18:15 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote >On Sunday 05 June 2005 5:38 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: >[snip] >> Here is a recipe for neck holes that really works - Debbie Lough gave it >> to me, I think she got it from someone else. Measure the size of hole >> you want and divide it by 5. > >Do you mean "the diameter of the hole you want"? > Sorry, I should have been clearer, it's the circumference. Collar measurement, basically. >> From the centre of the back piece, measure >> 1 inch down and one-fifth of your measurement to each size, and draw >> your scoop to that (allow for hemming when you cut). > >The measurement that you're taking the fifth of is the "size of hole you want" >measure from the first part, right? > Yes. > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 17:01:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56L1wCd014549 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:01:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56L0wuH082566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:00:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56L0q3W000985; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56L0b8x000714 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:00:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DfOi2-000K0B-6y for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 21:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:59:01 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> <42A3924C.5060001@avalon.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/917/Mon Jun 6 14:18:15 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/917/Mon Jun 6 14:18:15 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote >> Has anyone tried to work with the basic t-tunic pattern to solve this >>problem? I've thought that maybe making the body panel a trapezoid >>(narrower at the top) or just cutting a slant where the sleeves are >>attached might work. I haven't had time to sketch it all out and then >>mockup though. Do any of you have thoughts on this? Not period >>construction, but a fix to achieve period appearance, I guess. >> >> Elinor Salter > >When I do early 13th C clothing, I start the side gores as high as >possible - right at the garment armpit, when I can. That might help >with your problem. It would give you a little extra width around the >belly, but not so much around the shoulders. I guess you could do the >same with front and back gores if you want, I usually put them in only >at the sides, because I like the hang better that way. >_______________________________________________ It would be very obvious if you put in a front or back gore high enough to give extra width over the belly. At the side wouldn't show so much that it was for that purpose, just looks like a standard layout. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 19:41:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j56Nfdmx015752 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j56NeoUP021702 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56NeknC033776; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:40:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j56NefRN033722 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:40:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.29]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DfRCy-0001F8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:40:40 -0400 Message-ID: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:40:40 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Audrey wrote: >I know that for a time, some people refused to bathe (I'm thinking >Renaissance, but I might be off). Not that they didn't clean themselves: >they scraped and rubbed the grit out of their skins, and changed body >linens. Or took sponge baths -- IIRC, what was thought to be most unhealthy was immersing the entire body in a tub of water. A sponge bath can get you quite clean and is more economical of hot water as well. (The only place where it really doesn't work is for washing a full head of hair -- that pretty much does require pouring or immersing or something.) >I don't know if they were any more dirty than people who took the >required "once a week, dirty or not" bath. We were talking about costuming >myths, and that might be one of the most widely spread - that people didn't >clean themselves in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, and that all their >clothes were dirty. Hollywood might have something to do in perpetuating the >myth... I had occasion a couple of years ago to buy and read a historical novel that was getting rave reviews from non-historians for its portrayal of "everyday life." I will admit that I didn't like the heroine much, but neither she nor anyone else in the book _ever_ washed, either themselves or their clothing, not even when, shall we say, unpleasant bodily discharges were involved. There is one scene where she actually removes all her clothes and takes a dip in a local pond, but it's presented as something she does because she is a dreamy, poetic sort of person who loves nature (unlike everyone else in the Middle Ages of course ;) rather than out of any thought of actual cleanliness. The book was interesting in an intellectual sort of way, though I had to read it more than once before I could figure out just why it struck me as peculiar. I finally figured out that it read like it had been written with a checklist in hand: one ignorant priest, check. One person who dies of an infected wound that could have been cured with penicillin, check. One arranged marriage, check. One person who actually gets out of the village and goes to a "foreign country" a whole mile away, check. And so forth. I think there was a village idiot in there, too :) I also noticed that the author had fallen for the idea that linen in the Middle Ages in England was rare and expensive, so she made everyone have underclothes (if any) made of wool. Made me itch just thinking of it :) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 20:42:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j570gVEj016124 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:42:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j570fRCS029922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:41:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570fLQc067268; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:41:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav1.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570fJJQ067187 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:41:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:41:05 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:41:05 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004601c569fd$a9dc0be0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><42A35C71.6010707@optonline.net> <42A3924C.5060001@avalon.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:41:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2005 00:41:05.0367 (UTC) FILETIME=[96766670:01C56AF9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It would be very obvious if you put in a front or back gore high enough to > give extra width over the belly. At the side wouldn't show so much that > it was for that purpose, just looks like a standard layout. You're right! What I was picturing in my mind is starting the point at the bottom of the front slit, so it wouldn't be that obvious (I do a front slit, so that's the image I was going with). But you're right, it would probably look weird if there was a front gore starting right in the middle of the chest! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 20:46:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j570k7iO016157 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:46:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j570jHtr030416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570jHKo069295; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc1-s24.bay6.hotmail.com (omc1-s24.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.248.226]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570jF2J069241 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:45:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.96]) by omc1-s24.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:45:11 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:45:11 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV24.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:45:11 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Itchy wool was: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:45:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2005 00:45:11.0892 (UTC) FILETIME=[29672140:01C56AFA] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I also noticed that the author had fallen for the idea that linen in the > Middle Ages in England was rare and expensive, so she made everyone have > underclothes (if any) made of wool. Made me itch just thinking of it :) I know wool itches. I know many people are allergic to it. And I probably wouldn't want to wear wool for hours directly on some delicate areas but... Am I the only one who enjoys the itchy feeling of wool? I actually love cuddling in an itchy wool blanket or sweater. As if the fact that it itches made my brain think it's warmer? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 20:50:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j570on3c016211 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j570o6wV030998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570o5Hb071723; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:50:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570o2Qt071702 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j570nx28030539 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:50:00 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.80.30] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j570nuuh164840 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:50:01 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050606174805.026a0c60@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 17:49:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Itchy wool was: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair In-Reply-To: References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I also noticed that the author had fallen for the idea that linen in the >>Middle Ages in England was rare and expensive, so she made everyone have >>underclothes (if any) made of wool. Made me itch just thinking of it :) > >I know wool itches. I know many people are allergic to it. And I probably >wouldn't want to wear wool for hours directly on some delicate areas >but... Am I the only one who enjoys the itchy feeling of wool? I actually >love cuddling in an itchy wool blanket or sweater. As if the fact that it >itches made my brain think it's warmer? >_______________________________________________ Only cheap wool itches. Really expensive wool, or maybe lamb's wool, doesn't. This is aside from any questions of allergies, of course, and mindful of the fact that cheap for wool is not cheap for, say, cotton. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 20:54:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j570sn3w016256 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j570s7Zb031448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:54:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570s7xt073562; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:54:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j570s38t073520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:54:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-216-127-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.216.127]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j570s1pC002190 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:54:02 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c56afb$3b02c520$7fd8f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com> <429E2ADF.2030105@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:26:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adele de Maisieres" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question > Karen R Bergquist wrote: > > >To get the Elizabethan effect with satin you need to choose > >something quite heavy, like the stuff they sell for lining coats, and > >with a somewhat matte appearance. I know that sounds odd- matte satin, > >but there is a spectrum of shininess and to look right in period you > >should avoid the super shiny stuff and go for stuff with more of a > >'glow'. and of course you need to get the skirt looking full enough so > >you have nice luxurious folds of softly shining satin....mmmmmmm.......I > >think I feel a satin Elizabethan coming on....... > > > > I think the "good stuff" is sold as Duchesse or delustred satin. It's > fairly heavyweight, and popular for wedding gowns and the like. > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > However, there's really no point in buying that heavy weight polyester satin when you can get cotton brocades and velveteen cheaper, and if you're lucky you can get wool for the same price. This is based on prices available to me from the two chain fabric stores locally (well technically there's 3 stores but only 2 chains), if I order online I can sometimes get an even better price. Buying silk satin in an appropriate weight is prohibitively expensive (and I don't know about other countries but I've never seen it in person, just online) but there are alternatives to polyester if you can't afford silk. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 21:23:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j571Nswi016367 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j571NAo4034739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:23:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j571N9Lf087556; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j571Mlpd087405 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:23:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:39549 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1DfSno-0006eH-SO for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 21:22:50 -0400 Received: from 198.93.213.138 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1134.198.93.213.138.1118107370.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Itchy wool was: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.213.138 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO yes, in the winter I do. I have a lot of allergies, and I won't touch anything but merino wool in the summer, but in the winter I Love wool. it is so cuddly. Kitty >> I also noticed that the author had fallen for the idea that linen in >> the Middle Ages in England was rare and expensive, so she made >> everyone have underclothes (if any) made of wool. Made me itch just >> thinking of it :) > > I know wool itches. I know many people are allergic to it. And I > probably wouldn't want to wear wool for hours directly on some delicate > areas but... Am I the only one who enjoys the itchy feeling of wool? I > actually love cuddling in an itchy wool blanket or sweater. As if the > fact that it itches made my brain think it's warmer? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 21:32:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j571Woii016420 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:32:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j571W9n9036162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:32:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j571W8rg092263; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j571W6Fn092219 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:32:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 35572 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 01:32:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.29 with login) by smtp103.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 01:32:00 -0000 Message-ID: <005a01c56b00$b6cf2d10$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:32:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > Or took sponge baths -- IIRC, what was thought to be most unhealthy was > immersing the entire body in a tub of water. A sponge bath can get you > quite clean and is more economical of hot water as well. (The only place > where it really doesn't work is for washing a full head of hair -- that > pretty much does require pouring or immersing or something.) The other misconception about "bathing" in the Middle Ages is the idea that the Church believed it to be sinful. What the Church believed was sinful was public mixed bathing in bathhouses (you know, the kind where the Bohemian Bathhouse Babes were to be found :-). It wasn't washing or cleansing--indeed, the Church has a very long history of viewing that kind of thing in very positive terms. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 21:42:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j571gxVu016515 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:42:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j571fu49037482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:41:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j571fsjN097130; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:41:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j571fp55097103 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:41:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP6JR6PATS8Y99M2@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:41:48 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP6JR6HK1K8Y9A5C@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:41:48 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:43:10 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question In-reply-to: <000001c56afb$3b02c520$7fd8f5dc@e9q5h8> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A4FBAE.9020208@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com> <429E2ADF.2030105@paradise.net.nz> <000001c56afb$3b02c520$7fd8f5dc@e9q5h8> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >>I think the "good stuff" is sold as Duchesse or delustred satin. It's >>fairly heavyweight, and popular for wedding gowns and the like. >> >> >> >However, there's really no point in buying that heavy weight polyester satin >when you can get cotton brocades and velveteen cheaper, and if you're lucky >you can get wool for the same price. > Oh, heck, personally, I agree with you. I think satin is rather overrated, and I can get equally nice and more durable things at better prices. With careful shopping, I can _definitely_ get woollens as cheaply as the grade of synthetic satin I would consider acceptable. Bit if you really, really want satin, the heavy, low sheen stuff is the stuff to buy. But personally, I'd rather wear wool, cotton velvet, etc. Especially wool. >This is based on prices available to me >from the two chain fabric stores locally (well technically there's 3 stores >but only 2 chains), if I order online I can sometimes get an even better >price. Buying silk satin in an appropriate weight is prohibitively expensive >(and I don't know about other countries but I've never seen it in person, >just online) but there are alternatives to polyester if you can't afford >silk. > > Incidentally, I think you can sometimes get heavy, low-sheen silk satin in the fancier sort of bridal fabric shop-- no idea what it costs, though, and the colour range is probably a bit limited. I suppose another option would be high-quality cotton sateen. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 21:49:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j571nlw9016553 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:49:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j571mxh3038296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j571mwfR000545; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:48:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j571mrYC000482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:48:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57398aw000905 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:09:09 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for men Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:48:44 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> <200506051900.25459.cathy@thyrsus.com> <8$kJJcFIhLpCJw39@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <8$kJJcFIhLpCJw39@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200506062148.44743.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 06 June 2005 4:55 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: > Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote > > >On Sunday 05 June 2005 5:38 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: > >[snip] > > > >> Here is a recipe for neck holes that really works - Debbie Lough gave it > >> to me, I think she got it from someone else. Measure the size of hole > >> you want and divide it by 5. > > > >Do you mean "the diameter of the hole you want"? > > Sorry, I should have been clearer, it's the circumference. Collar > measurement, basically. [snip] Thanks! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 22:15:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j572EtGB016683 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j572EDp3041293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:14:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j572ECR4012908; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:14:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j572E7cJ012820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:14:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j573YKQ9001482 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:34:20 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:13:56 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050606131739.74014.qmail@web53110.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050606131739.74014.qmail@web53110.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506062213.56375.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Monday 06 June 2005 9:17 am, mlysett wrote: > If it helps this discussion any, the portrait of Nicholas Throckmorton > can be see here: > http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Throckmorton,Nicholas(Sir).jpg > On my monitor, I can clearly see the bag the kerchief is in. On the other hand, I've found the same portrait in a different book, namely, Ribeiro and Cumming's "The Visual History of Costume," and the authors of that book report, in the caption to the Throckmorton portrait (No. 44 on page 85) that "Although trunkhose and breeches were usually made with pockets for handkerchiefs and other accessories, Sir Nicholas has chosen to wear a separate purse to accommodate his carefully arranged handkerchief." Now I wish I knew what the authors' source of information was for the claim that trunkhose "usually" had pockets.... -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 6 23:14:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j573EJgP016946 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:14:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j573DWjM049621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j573DTGB044534; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:13:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j573DQrg044478 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r2.2.) id 6.1f3.b42c715 (1320) for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:13:14 -0400 (EDT) From: TeaRoseS@aol.com Message-ID: <1f3.b42c715.2fd66aca@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:13:14 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 379 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/6/2005 7:55:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: >I'm also uploading a sketch by Bruegel that shows the front of a peasant >man's hose. Bruegel is very consistent in the number and placement of the >points in all of his paintings. I looked at the placement of the points on the guy in the sketch who is facing us, and I looked at the jeans I'm wearing, and the points are just about where my belt loops are. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com That's a good point! But Bruegel shows lots of guys wearing belts -- nearly all of them, in fact -- and the points still dangle. I'll have to make a survey and see if I can find any belts attached to the points. Someone not on this list was looking at my scans and wondered how they held their hose up. Neither the belts nor the hose seem to constrict their bodies at all. Would it have been made out of something stretchy enough that the ties at the front would hold them on? Does anyone have first- or second-hand knowledge of wearing hose like that, and if so, how did you keep them from falling off? Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 00:05:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5745CI5017248 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:05:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5744S3P055453 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:04:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5744OLw069084; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:04:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5744Ksn069060 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:04:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=RaiRWkS2JgD2BoNl0/KubEOwj0ByTv2HPbRvYIs1k6JUKaGkhEwF2zYBiMPsdh7H; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.101.44.110] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth01.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DfVK8-0005b2-GW for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:04:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <42A3808C.2060007@optonline.net> References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> <42A375AA.2050402@optonline.net> <42A3808C.2060007@optonline.net> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:52:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for children Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478855a0fdb601c8e4eb84f361a3a2128c34b48bdfa389c7394350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.44.110 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:45 PM -0400 6/5/05, J Schueller wrote: >Ok, so my sister-in-law just got me her kids measurements. Basic a >boy sized 8 and a girl sized 6. I am going to make up a host of >t-tunics for them also. How big should I make the squares(or two >triangles) that go under the arms? Unlike my husband, theses are two >states away, so i can NOT put the tunics on them snd see what fits. >thanks for all the good comments, In response to both this and the other t-tunic arm-gusset thread ... Note that extremely few of the surviving medieval (and late classical) geometric-cut tunics have underarm gussets. For example, all the vast myriad of surviving late classical Egyptian tunics have nothing resembling an underarm gusset. For close-fitting garments, the usual solution is a slightly tapered sleeve, so that the shoulder area fits comfortably without having a wide wrist opening. For loose-fitting garments, the sleeves may be wide for the entire length, or there may be a very strong taper to the sleeves. Having a slightly shaped armscye -- even for an otherwise geometric-cut tunic -- is also found. (The Herjolfsness garments with a triangular insert in the sleeve seem at the back, rather than the underarm, functionally falls in the "slight taper + shaped armscye" class.) In general, underarm fitting problems happen when you have a loose-fitting garment (so that the sleeve attachment to the body is dropped down the shoulder somewhat), relatively tight sleeves (so that movement of the arm forces the garment to move), and a belted style (so that when the arm forces the garment to move, the belt stops it). For a child, I'd lean towards making the garment more loose-fitting, with wide sleeves. This solves the arm movement issue while simultaneously leaving some growing room. There are several late-classical children's tunics from Egypt that are from the T-shaped stylistic tradition but are cut with a slight curve at the underarm (and a slight flare in the skirts), but I think this is more a function of being cut from a larger piece of cloth, as contrasted with the adult garments which were generally woven to shape and therefore had a sharp angle at the underarm. I think that much of the impression of t-tunics as having underarm gussets (in addition to popular modern patterns that call for them) is bleed-over from Renaissance- and later-era shirts and chemises, which follow a somewhat different cutting tradition. For reference: the 11th c. Danish shirt from Viborg has square underarm gussets; the Boksten tunic _may_ have underarm gussets of functionally triangular shape, but they may have been placed towards the back (like the Herjolfsnes ones) instead -- it's hard to know. I'm not bringing to mind any other medieval or earlier garments that have a square underarm gusset. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 04:07:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5787g4G020600 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5786iig077756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5786dm5073211; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:06:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5786YaZ073162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-50-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.50]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5786VVZ026638 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:06:33 +1000 Message-ID: <002201c56b37$a5c128c0$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:37:07 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is one scene where she actually removes all her clothes and takes a dip in a local pond, but it's presented as something she does because she is a dreamy, poetic sort of person who loves nature (unlike everyone else in the Middle Ages of course ;) rather than out of any thought of actual cleanliness. > Well yeah, everyone else hated nature coz it was out to kill them, nature is frost and snow and sunburn and disease. only people who live far away from nature like the thought of being close to nature.:) Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 04:08:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5788jw9020783 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5787OIs077790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5787OVC073488; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5786YZL073159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-50-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.50]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5786VVX026638 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:06:32 +1000 Message-ID: <002101c56b37$a55dfa20$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:20:26 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] polished cotton weight? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I saw some quilting cotton for a really good price at a local fabric store and considered using it as a lining for a dress I'm making (well once I've got the corset finished, but I figured I ought to snap up the bargain while I could). The pattern calls for polished cotton but I haven't seen anything labelled polished cotton here, can somebody give me a comparison of the weight to other fabrics. Is it a similar weight to quilting cotton or is it heavier like drill? thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 06:20:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57AKUba020278 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:20:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57AJNVU086802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57AJK7Q028410; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:19:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57AJHMD028389 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:19:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA3741066 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 16A2637CF6; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:17 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5CpXSlAAAqOAEAAAAB,0a7c16e65ec002dd97859bd438c245c3 Message-Id: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I seem to remember reading somewhere that once humanity settled down to farming, their diets became a lot more limited - as opposed to the diet provided by hunting/gathering - which led to a form of malnutrition, leading to decreased size. ( The evidence came from comparing skeleton sizes of Cro-Magnons with later skeletons.) This trend didn't start to reverse until well into the industrial age/ revolution with the rising prosperity of the middle-classes. I also remember reading somewhere that Lincoln had Marfan's syndrome - which is why he was so tall. There is this passage from 'Little House in the Big Woods' by Laura Ingalls Wilder : ' Pull, Ruby, pull! ' Aunt Docia said, breathless. 'Pull harder.' So Aunt Ruby braced her feet and pulled harder. Aunt Docia kept measuring her waist with her hands, and at last she gasped, ' I quess that's the best you can do. ' She said, ' Caroline says Charles could span her waist with his hands, when they were married. ' Caroline was Laura's Ma, and when she heard this Laura felt proud. Even with tight lacing, to be able to have a waist *that* small, you would have to be a small person. In general, women are *not* big/tall. I've also read about studies that correlate height with career success. My 2c worth. Joannah. --- Adele de Maisieres wrote: From: Adele de Maisieres Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:44:37 +1200 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Julie wrote: >People were smaller then. Just look at all the small uniforms that have been recovered, small armor, etc. (what about some of the 6 foot plus skeletons, etc...Abe Lincoln) So were they mostly smaller? Sure seems to be so in current times. Children are often taller than their parents and grandparents. Is it diet? Is it genes? > > It depends what you mean. It's probably safest to say that the heights of _lower_class people have increased a good deal, but those of upper class people by much less. A friend of mine is interested in 19th century militaria and says that many of the jackets he's found have been too small for him-- and he's only 5'7" and slim. Heights are determined by a combination of genetics and diet. And a single example doesn't prove anything about averages-- Lincoln was considered a tall man while he was alive. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 06:35:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57AZSgp020350 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:35:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57AXMVW088004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:33:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57AXL4l034523; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:33:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57AXHjU034452 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:33:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp133.pop1.net [209.102.125.183]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA23389 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:36:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp133.pop1.net [209.102.125.183] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <42A577C8.7010702@pcez.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 03:32:40 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] shot silk References: <20050601134215.17710.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <011101c56731$67e77e50$0301010a@michaela> <013f01c5677a$0ec2ddd0$0400a8c0@compaqub> In-Reply-To: <013f01c5677a$0ec2ddd0$0400a8c0@compaqub> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What is shot? I'm still learning all of the fabric descriptions. Roscelin E House wrote: > This discussion reminds me of something I've been trying to track down > the last few days. Exactly when did shot silk (or shot wool, for that > matter) fall out of fashion between the 15th & 16th centuries? Fabric > shot with both gold and other colors shows up in manuscripts well into > the 16thC, but not in any portraits I can call to mind. It seems > reasonable to assume that the shot effect seen in the manuscripts is > intended for artistic purposes only (in other words, as an opportunity > to lay on the gilt and make it look richer). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 06:56:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57Aue5e020481 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:56:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57AtfXg094954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57AtdOw044003; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:55:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57AtaKS043954 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:55:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.b8.7406297a (3940) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:55:26 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:55:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] shot silk To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/7/2005 6:33:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, roscelin@pcez.com writes: What is shot? I'm still learning all of the fabric descriptions. "Shot" has one color threads in the warp and another in the weft. This gives an iridescent effect. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 08:18:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57CIvAP022020 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:18:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57CI4ZL011008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:18:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57CHtrq079933; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:17:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57CHpQU079828 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:17:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050607121745.JOIG23759.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:17:45 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.153.64.32]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050607121745.BFYZ4411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:17:45 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.323 [267.6.4]); Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:17:55 +1200 Message-ID: <00b301c56b5a$ef02bd50$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com><429E2ADF.2030105@paradise.net.nz> <000001c56afb$3b02c520$7fd8f5dc@e9q5h8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:17:54 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > However, there's really no point in buying that heavy weight polyester satin > when you can get cotton brocades and velveteen cheaper, and if you're lucky > you can get wool for the same price. This is based on prices available to me > from the two chain fabric stores locally (well technically there's 3 stores > but only 2 chains), if I order online I can sometimes get an even better > price. Buying silk satin in an appropriate weight is prohibitively expensive > (and I don't know about other countries but I've never seen it in person, > just online) but there are alternatives to polyester if you can't afford > silk. It depends on the type of silk satin really. At Global fabrics I've found a so called double organga that was essentially a silk satin for $NZ5/m and a nice decent width. A spot of dye and backing fabric and it became a great sleeve lining for my Valois gown and verdugardos. It needed to be washed so I think a lot of people were put off by the papery feeling of it on the bolt. I'm only replacing it because I want a white lining like the original. Global Fabrics is unpredictable, but I haven't seen a silk over $NZ30/m and that includes the silk/metal brocades. They have some stunning cream heavy silk satin in at the moment that should be more tempting that it actually is for me. I just have a fear of making something from fabric so beautiful and ripping it/dropping soemthign on it etc etc. I don't have much in the way of glass or crockery in my SCA feast gear for the same reason. It breaks. Satin also probably isn't as flattering on me as matt fabrics anyway. I have yet to buy fabric online, mostly because I like to feel the fabric before buying it. Though for habotai (or any of the varient spellings/names for the fabric) I was thinking about it. Before realising I could get it for under $NZ10/m which was probably less than buying it online once the value of the NZ dollar, shipping this far out and possible tax spalled on it at this end. heehee, I love how this thread has diverted from the original question, but still is about satin. How often does that happen? And slightly OT: prices can vary from store to store here wildly. I found some really lovely fake fur for $NZ149.99/m which was $NZ79.99/m somewhere else then $NZ49.99/m and finally $NZ29.99/m. The lower three prices I know for sure were the exact same fabric, the first might have been different, I can't recall... but the quality was the same. So that silk satin I mentioned would likely be... about $NZ100/m in another store. If not $NZ150/m. michaela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.4 - Release Date: 6/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 08:29:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57CTJXN022215 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:29:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57CSXpw011994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:28:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57CSWV6085369; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:28:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57CSThE085325 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:28:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 59694 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 12:28:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 12:28:24 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607132426.014e0d90@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:27:39 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question In-Reply-To: <00b301c56b5a$ef02bd50$0301010a@michaela> References: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com> <429E2ADF.2030105@paradise.net.nz> <000001c56afb$3b02c520$7fd8f5dc@e9q5h8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 00:17 08/06/2005 +1200, you wrote: > > However, there's really no point in buying that heavy weight polyester >satin > > when you can get cotton brocades and velveteen cheaper, and if you're >lucky > > you can get wool for the same price. This is based on prices available to >me > > from the two chain fabric stores locally (well technically there's 3 >stores > > but only 2 chains), if I order online I can sometimes get an even better > > price. Buying silk satin in an appropriate weight is prohibitively >expensive > > (and I don't know about other countries but I've never seen it in person, > > just online) but there are alternatives to polyester if you can't afford > > silk. I have a couple of examples of silk duchesse satin which is really heavy, not too shiny, and curls like the devil so it is almost un-handleable!! The acetate satin on the other hand is really good and ideal for Edwardian/late Victorian skirts, which is what I was looking for. I can't remember prices, but the duchesse is far more than I would want to pay, I remember that! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 08:51:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57Cph7Z022328 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:51:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57ColT6014334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:50:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Cojo6096512; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57CogRx096410 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 06:50:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j57CoVd17515.; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:50:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:50:31 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:50:23 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57CogRx096410 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't reach to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> cley@juno.com 04/06/2005 15:12 >>> > 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. Depends! If you're wearing the corset correctly, as a support garment, you should be fine. If you're wearing one to confine your waist and ribs and mash your breasts together up to your chin, then no. Arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 09:05:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57D5lm1022434 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:05:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57D578j015611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:05:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57D56a5004230; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:05:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57D525u004152 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:05:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.8]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:03:20 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:04:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcVrX7Q+TaFGL+FeSNahHfYvGi7xQgAAZjSQ Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2005 13:03:21.0037 (UTC) FILETIME=[47CA57D0:01C56B61] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wear the corset loose enough to breathe and use some stuffing? (it's not just for 20th century teenagers anymore!) HTH, Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Kate M Bunting Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:50 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't reach to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 09:57:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57Dv8MB022739 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:57:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Dt6Lm019546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57DsuxI032141; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:54:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Dsrpc032085 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:54:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.90]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050607135442.ETFT7497.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:54:42 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050607082508.02a7b160@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 08:54:38 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com> References: <200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: hose X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In "Dressing Renaissance Florence" by Carole Collier Frick ISBN 0801869390, she mentions the use of wool jersey for several items. One specific reference by Frick: "A wide array of woolens was also available to citizens, from fine English wool cloth (finished in Florence in the Convento di San Martino) to the relatively inexpensive stretchable perpignan jersey used for hose, with many grades in between." pg 167. In her Glossary (pg 315): "perpigniano: Woolen jersey cloth made in many colors, used mainly for hosiery worn by men, which originated in the town of Perpignan, France. However, in the Parenti ricordanza, f. 59V, a gamurra for a girl is also recorded as fashioned of 'perpigniano azurro con maniche di velluto verde'; the Dominican friars also occasionally made their toniche of perpigniano cupo." Now the question is: What does Frick mean by the use of the term "jersey" and what is the characteristics of the cloth that make it "stretchable"? To most of us this would imply a knit textile, but I cannot find supporting documentation (though we do know that knitted stockings were made in England by the time of Elizabeth I). Perhaps some variation on a twill is intended... Beth At 07:18 AM 6/7/2005, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:13:14 EDT >From: TeaRoseS@aol.com >Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 379 > >In a message dated 6/6/2005 7:55:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, >Tea Rose writes: > >That's a good point! But Bruegel shows lots of guys wearing belts -- nearly >all of them, in fact -- and the points still dangle. I'll have to make a >survey and see if I can find any belts attached to the points. > >Someone not on this list was looking at my scans and wondered how they held >their hose up. Neither the belts nor the hose seem to constrict their bodies >at all. Would it have been made out of something stretchy enough that the >ties >at the front would hold them on? Does anyone have first- or second-hand >knowledge of wearing hose like that, and if so, how did you keep them from >falling off? > >Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 09:59:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57DxuIr022773 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:59:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Dvvp8019689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Dvvnc033958; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Dvsiu033930 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:57:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j57Dw0Ns025165 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:58:00 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.80.30] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j57DvmKF327264 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:57:53 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050607064942.025fb550@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 06:50:54 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes like she said. If even female impersonators can have cleavage, you can too. >Wear the corset loose enough to breathe and use some stuffing? >(it's not just for 20th century teenagers anymore!) HTH, Betsy > >-----Original Message----- >So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset >with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't reach >to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are >unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 10:01:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57E1iFD022805 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:01:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57E0ud1019981 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57E0uLt036107; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (smtp4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57E0raQ036017 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:00:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.251.184]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 21908430 for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 07:22:24 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] polished cotton weight? Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:59:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c56b69$185244b0$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <002101c56b37$a55dfa20$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> Importance: Normal X-SpamDetect: ***: 3.000000 Aspam=3.0 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 56, in=66, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.251.184 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "polished cotton" refers to the finish on the fabric, not to the weight. You can find heavier polished cottons intended for drapery and upholstery, and lighter weight for quilting. Personally, I would use the quilting fabric for linings--unless for some reason you need a really heavy, stiff lining. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:20 AM To: historic costume Subject: [h-cost] polished cotton weight? Hi everyone, I saw some quilting cotton for a really good price at a local fabric store and considered using it as a lining for a dress I'm making (well once I've got the corset finished, but I figured I ought to snap up the bargain while I could). The pattern calls for polished cotton but I haven't seen anything labelled polished cotton here, can somebody give me a comparison of the weight to other fabrics. Is it a similar weight to quilting cotton or is it heavier like drill? thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 10:14:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57EE0lU022917 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57EDGF0021261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57EDDNI045131; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57ED8Me045046 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:13:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id D1033206F0; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:13:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.39.103.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.39.103]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F5B720400 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:13:02 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01ac01c56b6b$36d8d5a0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002101c56b37$a55dfa20$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] polished cotton weight? Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:14:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/918/Tue Jun 7 02:35:05 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elizabeth Walpole" > The pattern calls for polished cotton but I haven't seen anything > labelled polished cotton here, can somebody give me a comparison of the > weight to other fabrics. Is it a similar weight to quilting cotton or is > it > heavier like drill? It's heavier than quilting cotton, but only by a little--lighter than drill. The polished cotton I've seen was, however, more tightly woven than quilting cotton, which is what made it heavier; it was a plain weave and the threads were about the same size. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 10:25:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57EPAuo023065 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:25:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57EONGS022658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:24:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57EOLoX054642; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:24:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57EOGa2054573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j57EK7TJ023639 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:20:07 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:20:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A5AE0D.3060804@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:24:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-tunics for children References: <7e.6af1482c.2fd4c705@aol.com> <42A375AA.2050402@optonline.net> <42A3808C.2060007@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Heather Rose Jones wrote: > In general, underarm fitting problems happen when you have a > loose-fitting garment (so that the sleeve attachment to the body is > dropped down the shoulder somewhat), relatively tight sleeves (so that > movement of the arm forces the garment to move), and a belted style (so > that when the arm forces the garment to move, the belt stops it). My belief is that modern people who buy ready-made shirts have gotten used to the idea that the shoulder-to-sleeve seam should be partway down the arm, when ideally, it should be much closer to the shoulder bone bump. Robin's demonstration at her lecture showed that a fairly closely fitted upper body (say, nipples to shoulder area) cut in a medieval style was not likely to make someone feel constrained, because it moved differently -- exactly what you've written, above. For us fat folks, gores get inserted to deal with bellies and all. I recall from one of your lectures, Heather, that you had said that if there were only two gores, they were on the CF and CB, not the sides; do you still think this is so? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 10:26:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57EQFcF023081 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:26:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57EPSkx022860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:25:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57EPRbT055568; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:25:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57EPKP2055464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:25:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j57ELCTJ023646 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:21:12 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A5AE4F.2010902@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:25:19 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin veils Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com><429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <001e01c5680f$6392f260$71dbf5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <001e01c5680f$6392f260$71dbf5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > Actually, while draping the veil over the whole hennin (i.e. pointy hat) was > more common there is evidence for veils dangling from the tip too. See this > page http://members.fortunecity.com/cadieuxx/burgundy3.html the pictures > showing veils dangling from the tip are about halfway down the page. I belive that most of those have veils that run along the cone snugly, and then fall off at the end, giving the appearance of just at the tip. You can see some light colored tracings at the front of the cones which may be folded "cuffs" on the veils, and some of them show the veil continuing over the forehead -- notably the fourth and sixth on that line on that page. It's possible that the others hang just from the tip, but I'd be willing to put money against it. Larger versions of the images would give us better information. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 10:40:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57EeV4s023212 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:40:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Edl9d024292 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:39:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Edjbn066100; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:39:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57EdfbM065966 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88EE93C6D5 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:39:35 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:39:21 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > P.S. Let's not forget "pointy toed shoes with points so long they have > to be fastened with chains to the knees so the wearer doesn't trip over > them" Hey, those are coming back into style. I saw a woman in dressy heels this weekend, with extended points on the front of the shoe. The toe was obviously designed to be long and thin, it wasn't just a narrow shoe she had squeezed into. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 10:41:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57EfgXm023230 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:41:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57EeXG2024367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57EeWBN066641; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:40:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57Ee9qX066355 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLMNNQANZSHDS for (sender ); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:39:10 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgkDLlIOq5miDSVr2GtE0U4w= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUWAUQ7V; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 07:38:11 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:29:09 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Message-ID: <20050607.073753.988.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-8,10-18 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 6:3:2584731471 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you considered a barrel corset? I have no idea what period they are--Regina made mine for a 1500's Italian Ren, but it was the perfect choice for a singer, as it doesn't constrict the ribs at all. It only supports the dress. Sorry I can't be more helpful--I don't costume. Arlys On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:50:23 +0100 "Kate M Bunting" writes: > So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a > corset with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It > doesn't reach to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, > my ribs are unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep > breath. > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:00:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57F0Kto023787 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:00:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57ExJus026772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:59:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Ex2D5081736; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:59:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web60519.mail.yahoo.com (web60519.mail.yahoo.com [209.73.178.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57EwuO2081581 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:58:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sionnach1025@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 52169 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 2005 14:58:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=sdqw9fpsDhp+qXXK+SK6bnfwazDpgs/+eSDAZwP2j0H/B36s7n05bgY8SdAmi7KgOSSRV50P1Kqqluo8X8EQ4Qvp9/S/OnIuRo91jWT5jS30XT3G3PZ8sctOQvro4peV+FJnA3Nri0aORwD4P2wOnMVr4V68pXy56cNOvrP40Ok= ; Message-ID: <20050607145851.52167.qmail@web60519.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.209.98.47] by web60519.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 07:58:51 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:58:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Bossinger To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506071218.j57CHv1J079959@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 380 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *Much snippage below, as I'm on digest* > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:32:05 -0400 > From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: <005a01c56b00$b6cf2d10$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Greetings-- > > > Or took sponge baths -- IIRC, what was thought to > be most unhealthy was > > immersing the entire body in a tub of water. A > sponge bath can get you > > quite clean and is more economical of hot water as > well. (The only place > > where it really doesn't work is for washing a full > head of hair -- that > > pretty much does require pouring or immersing or > something.) > > The other misconception about "bathing" in the > Middle Ages is the idea that > the Church believed it to be sinful. What the > Church believed was sinful > was public mixed bathing in bathhouses (you know, > the kind where the > Bohemian Bathhouse Babes were to be found :-). It > wasn't washing or > cleansing--indeed, the Church has a very long > history of viewing that kind > of thing in very positive terms. > > Susan > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:37:07 +1000 > From: "Elizabeth Walpole" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: <002201c56b37$a5c128c0$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > There is one scene where she actually > removes all her clothes > and takes a dip in a local pond, but it's presented > as something she does > because she is a dreamy, poetic sort of person who > loves nature (unlike > everyone else in the Middle Ages of course ;) rather > than out of any thought > of actual cleanliness. > > > > Well yeah, everyone else hated nature coz it was out > to kill them, nature is > frost and snow and sunburn and disease. only people > who live far away from > nature like the thought of being close to nature.:) > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ Combining a reply to both of these... Michael Crichton brings up a point about basin/cloth baths in his novel _Timeline_. The modern character, when transported into medieval times, is taken into the bedchamber to freshen up and wonders how he's ever going to get clean with the basin he's provided with, but tries. Then the servant comes to present him to his host and is appalled at how unclean he still is, and proceeds to finish the job, surprising the modern guy with how much grunge he was able to get off with such a seemingly small amount of water and lots of scrubbing. Back to lurking & enjoying the knowledge... tracy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:00:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57F0l7E023794 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:00:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Ext6j026884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57ExmEZ082521; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:59:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57ExgQX082400 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:59:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 64268A07C5; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:59:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.39.103.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.39.103]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 533B3A077F for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:59:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01cb01c56b71$b9c8aca0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:01:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate M Bunting" > So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, > but wear a corset with my best 1640s attire to try to > create the right look? It doesn't reach to my waist, but > as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are > unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. By the 1640s, corsets really weren't separate garments anymore, and didn't re-separate until several decades later. Instead, the bodice area was boned with an integral stiffened interlining (not always terribly stiff, for that matter). The seams of this stiffened interlining didn't necessarily match the seams of the outer fabric, and parts of the bodice could be left completely unstiffened. In Norah Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines, there's an example of a slightly earlier stiffened high-waisted bodice on p20. The interlining is made of stiffened linen; probably somewhat like buckram. Only the back and sides are boned; there is no boning in the front, except for a piece on each side of the lacing holes. Nonetheless, this particular extant garment must have produced instant cleavage--the only part of the stiffened lining that goes anywhere near the bust is along the sides of each breast (not over) which would squeeze 'em together pretty effectively. So if you're trying to get the right look, skip the corset and figure out a way to re-work your lining! It sounds like the above Corsets and Crinolines example would fix just about all the things you're having trouble with. =} (Disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer: This is not to say that absolutely no separate corsets existed in the mid 17th century. They just weren't the norm; instead, the boned bodice was the norm.) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:02:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57F2tC4023812 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:02:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57F1us9027293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:01:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57F1gvo084256; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:01:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57F0HRx082985 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:00:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E16975EE085 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:00:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003c01c56b71$a2f04920$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601.085608.-101135271.0.penhalion@juno.com><429E2ADF.2030105@paradise.net.nz><000001c56afb$3b02c520$7fd8f5dc@e9q5h8> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607132426.014e0d90@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:00:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Suzi, Yes curly duchesse satin, scared me a little two when i cut out my habit francaise. but it really was a dream to sew with it, and my satin wasnt shiny like fake satin is. But you are right it is two expensive, i only baught mine because it was some money i had left from a holliday in Portugal, i only spended very little money there, and had a lot left when i got home. Then i went to this shop we have, wich lies way out in the countryside, but only has silk and what silk.......... Sigh droll, but alas also very expensive prices. I remember they had some taffeta wich was more beautifull than all the other taffetas, they also called it another name, but it was not shot taffeta, what could this have ben? It was a finer quality taffeta, and also much more beautifull colours. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question > At 00:17 08/06/2005 +1200, you wrote: >> > However, there's really no point in buying that heavy weight polyester >>satin >> > when you can get cotton brocades and velveteen cheaper, and if you're >>lucky >> > you can get wool for the same price. This is based on prices available >> > to >>me >> > from the two chain fabric stores locally (well technically there's 3 >>stores >> > but only 2 chains), if I order online I can sometimes get an even >> > better >> > price. Buying silk satin in an appropriate weight is prohibitively >>expensive >> > (and I don't know about other countries but I've never seen it in >> > person, >> > just online) but there are alternatives to polyester if you can't >> > afford >> > silk. > > I have a couple of examples of silk duchesse satin which is really heavy, > not too shiny, and curls like the devil so it is almost un-handleable!! > The acetate satin on the other hand is really good and ideal for > Edwardian/late Victorian skirts, which is what I was looking for. I can't > remember prices, but the duchesse is far more than I would want to pay, I > remember that! > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:08:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57F81PA023874 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:08:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57F72rK028161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:07:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57F6hEi088797; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:06:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57F5aWS087832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:55683 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1Dffe5-000786-2p for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:05:37 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.226 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2426.198.93.211.226.1118156738.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] polished cotton weight? From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.226 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <002101c56b37$a55dfa20$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> References: <002101c56b37$a55dfa20$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi everyone, > I saw some quilting cotton for a really good price at a local fabric > store and considered using it as a lining for a dress I'm making (well > once I've got the corset finished, but I figured I ought to snap up the > bargain while I could). The pattern calls for polished cotton but I > haven't seen anything labelled polished cotton here, can somebody give > me a comparison of the weight to other fabrics. Is it a similar weight > to quilting cotton or is it heavier like drill? > thanks > Elizabeth it is heavier than quilting cotton but not at all coarse. I would compare it to the heavy cottons that are sold for the fancy little girls dresses, with a border on them? thick and crisp if you know what I mean, to make the skirts nice and full. Polished cotton has a firm, somewhat shiny finish. Have you tried a web search? Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:09:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57F915P023884 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57F2wTP027464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:02:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57F2qJe085336; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57F2jRP085122 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:02:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 90267 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 15:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 15:02:39 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607155720.014e0ed0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:01:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th century corset was costuming myths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 13:50 07/06/2005 +0100, you wrote: >So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset >with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't >reach to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are >unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. > >Kate Bunting >Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> cley@juno.com 04/06/2005 15:12 >>> > > 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. > >Depends! If you're wearing the corset correctly, as a support garment, >you should be fine. If you're wearing one to confine your waist and ribs >and mash your breasts together up to your chin, then no. Do you actually *need* to wear a corset? Many of the extant bodices (often silk) of the 1640's that I have seen have bones built into them, thus saving the necessity of a separate corset. It seems perfectly possible that corsets may not have been worn at this time, although I have no proof either way. I do not know of any corsets actually in existence from this era. Does anyone else know of any? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:16:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57FGGuI023955 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:16:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57FF815029464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:15:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57FElUs095949; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:14:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57FEfSV095824 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:14:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B99CB1BCC79; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:14:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.39.103.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.39.103]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1068E1BCC3C for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:07:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <01d401c56b72$d8a198c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004901c56aae$5f4a8460$0200a8c0@bella> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Please Help Date A Corset Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:09:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is there any chance of pictures? They really would be worth a thousand words, here... -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:29:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57FT7Ri024055 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:29:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57FRVEq031403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:27:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57FQxNA006807; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:27:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57FQZrV006198 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:26:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1793C6C3 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:26:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A5BC94.4040308@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:26:12 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's peasant costume References: <1f3.b42c715.2fd66aca@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1f3.b42c715.2fd66aca@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > Someone not on this list was looking at my scans and wondered how they held > their hose up. Neither the belts nor the hose seem to constrict their bodies > at all. Would it have been made out of something stretchy enough that the ties > at the front would hold them on? Does anyone have first- or second-hand > knowledge of wearing hose like that, and if so, how did you keep them from > falling off? That one picture you scanned shows a waistband held closed in front with a looped knot that closes a gap or perhaps an inch or two. I would guess that the tension there is enough to hold the hose up, combined with the close fit of the hose themselves. If the waist is cut on the straight so it doesn't stretch then you'd get good hold. My one experiment with men's bias hose was 15 years ago, but I recall that they did keep themselves up reasonably well. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 11:53:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57FrcRw024342 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:53:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57FqXHA034958 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:52:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Fq7Db029091; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:52:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57FpC5C028300 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:51:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 229365EE01E for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:51:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000801c56b78$c0f0c7e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607155720.014e0ed0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century corset was costuming myths Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:51:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Suzi and Kate I would say the same thing. The most important of your appearal is that your bodice sits very well and you wont have any wrinkles anywhere. The fabric should sit smooth all the way round. You could have a corset made wich just sits tight to your body, not nescesary to reduce your waist or anything, but it must be boned so that your bodice will sit well. Bjarne. I just got a note from Ian the staymaker that he had travelled to the other side of Brittain to examin a corset from 1630-40 wich was hided in a house wall. I hope to se some photos of it, would be very interresting. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 5:01 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th century corset was costuming myths > At 13:50 07/06/2005 +0100, you wrote: >>So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset >>with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't >>reach to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are >>unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. >> >>Kate Bunting >>Librarian and 17th century reenactor >> >> >>> cley@juno.com 04/06/2005 15:12 >>> >> > 2) You can't breathe, much less do anything strenuous, in a corset. >> >>Depends! If you're wearing the corset correctly, as a support garment, >>you should be fine. If you're wearing one to confine your waist and ribs >>and mash your breasts together up to your chin, then no. > > > Do you actually *need* to wear a corset? Many of the extant bodices (often > silk) of the 1640's that I have seen have bones built into them, thus > saving the necessity of a separate corset. It seems perfectly possible > that corsets may not have been worn at this time, although I have no proof > either way. I do not know of any corsets actually in existence from this > era. Does anyone else know of any? > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 12:30:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57GUe8V024721 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:30:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57GTfat040001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:29:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57GTbse061529; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:29:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57GTWQg061382 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:29:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D15BF3C6C3 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:29:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A5CB55.3070403@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:29:09 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > That doesn't mean I don't *clean* my hair, I just don't wash it -- I brush > it thoroughly every day (and clean my brushes), and rinse periodically > with an infusion from herbs from my garden. Pardon this for being late, I'm wading through 300+ messages now that I'm home from vacation.... I've found that it's not so much the shampoo that can damage your hair as the method you use with the product. Most people have learned to pile their hair onto the top of their head and work it into a tangled lather. And then they try to comb it out when it's wet and most susceptible to damage. I comb my hair out, then wet it down, then lather the scalp areas while leaving the ends hanging, and the result is far less tangling and breakage from having to untangle it afterward. I also don't use *hot* water. Yes, it's warm, but it's not scalding, and I find that makes a big difference in manageability, too. A lot of folks who want long, beautiful, 'period' hair are failing because the care techniques they've learned don't apply to hair that gets beyond shoulder length. For some really good care tips, I recommend this website: http://www.tlhs.org/ Not trying to say that your herbal rinse isn't a great way to care for hair, but that folks who might be aprehensive about taking the step away from a modern product CAN do things less scary than giving up shampoo entirely. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 12:50:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57GoS6R024909 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:50:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57GnHZQ043029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:49:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57GnEaW078604; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:49:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57GmiNW078041 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:49:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 51166 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 16:48:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 16:48:38 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607174517.014e11a0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:47:14 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century corset was costuming myths In-Reply-To: <000801c56b78$c0f0c7e0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607155720.014e0ed0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:51 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Suzi and Kate > >I would say the same thing. The most important of your appearal is that >your bodice sits very well and you wont have any wrinkles anywhere. The >fabric should sit smooth all the way round. >You could have a corset made wich just sits tight to your body, not >nescesary to reduce your waist or anything, but it must be boned so that >your bodice will sit well. > >Bjarne. > >I just got a note from Ian the staymaker that he had travelled to the >other side of Brittain to examin a corset from 1630-40 wich was hided in a >house wall. >I hope to se some photos of it, would be very interresting. > >Bjarne Will you ask Ian if he would mind you sharing the photos? I would really like to see a corset of that period, and I am sure the other members of the list would too. Also is he going to publish any information about it? That would be even better. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:04:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57H4Hx5025094 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57H3Qvj045060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:03:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57H3M1w090580; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:03:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57H3GHi090485 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.158] (pm5-158.eos.net [205.133.149.158]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j57H3DwO027972 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:03:14 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:55:39 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200506071500.j57ExoLx082542@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: baths X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Tracy: > Michael Crichton brings up a point about basin/cloth > baths in his novel _Timeline_. The modern character, > when transported into medieval times, is taken into > the bedchamber to freshen up and wonders how he's ever > going to get clean with the basin he's provided with, > but tries. Then the servant comes to present him to > his host and is appalled at how unclean he still is, > and proceeds to finish the job, surprising the modern > guy with how much grunge he was able to get off with > such a seemingly small amount of water and lots of > scrubbing. One of the few things he got right in that book... a major disappointment, IMHO. Never saw the movie, I just couldn't stand even the idea. My biggest memory of the book is the female character (who wore a wig to go back in time, and then took it off when she needed people to think she was a boy -- no mention of her clothes!!) climbing everything in sight. I think rock climbing must have been really in style in California at the time. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:07:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57H7Vda025149 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57H6WeS045344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57H6Peh093136; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:06:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57H6Bb3092801 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:06:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j57H64d05589.; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:06:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:06:04 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:05:57 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57H6Bb3092801 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I wanted to make a new stomacher a few years ago, like you I couldn't find anything nearly stiff enough in the shops. Drea Leed told me (via this list ) how to make my own buckram by painting several thicknesses of canvas with dilute glue (the white kind used for sticking paper). I've made two stomachers in this way and it works very well. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:08:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57H8i5J025160 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:08:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57H7x2u045591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57H7xb9094682; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:07:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jetspin.drizzle.com (jetspin.drizzle.com [216.162.192.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57H7sd4094628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:07:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from tayla@sablerose.net) Received: from altra4 (tide16.microsoft.com [207.46.125.16]) (authenticated bits=0) by jetspin.drizzle.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j57H7mZx006582 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:07:48 -0700 Message-ID: <024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: "Sablerose" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:07:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw a man in a pair a couple of weeks ago wearing a pair where the toe extended about 3-4 inches out, narrowing and curving slight up. He was the manager of a shoe store, so this must be a hot new trend. Tayla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:39 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes > Chris Laning wrote: > >> P.S. Let's not forget "pointy toed shoes with points so long they have to >> be fastened with chains to the knees so the wearer doesn't trip over >> them" > > Hey, those are coming back into style. I saw a woman in dressy heels this > weekend, with extended points on the front of the shoe. The toe was > obviously designed to be long and thin, it wasn't just a narrow shoe she > had squeezed into. > > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:31:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57HVmQN025310 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:31:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57HUM6Q047983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:30:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HTc0r012223; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:29:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail7.mdx.safepages.com (mail7.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HSa0E011357 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:28:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 428CE1BCBD0; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:28:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.39.103.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.39.103]) by mail7.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 825521BCC13 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:25:19 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <025b01c56b86$10f9e750$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org><42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net> <024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:26:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sablerose" >I saw a man in a pair a couple of weeks ago wearing a pair where the toe >extended about 3-4 inches out, narrowing and curving slight up. > > He was the manager of a shoe store, so this must be a hot new trend. On one of the "What Not To Wear" episodes on TLC, the host Stacy was going on and on about how pointy shoes were the revolutionary newnewnew thing, and I just had to put my head in my hands and groan. Oy. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:32:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57HWBSi025315 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:32:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57HV44g048109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:31:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HV3IC013622; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:31:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HTLaG011942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:29:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j57HPCTJ024940 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:25:12 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A5D96F.7040405@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:29:19 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net> <024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Sablerose wrote: > I saw a man in a pair a couple of weeks ago wearing a pair where the toe > extended about 3-4 inches out, narrowing and curving slight up. > > He was the manager of a shoe store, so this must be a hot new trend. In Venice we saw black pointy shoes with a little gondola-front-bit on the end. We assumed they were for over-enthusiastic rich tourists. (As opposed to us over-enthusiastic miserly tourists.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:33:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57HXEab025322 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57HWGfP048283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HWB0U014673; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:32:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HW4v3014493 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7FB53C6C3 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:31:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A5D9FD.3020805@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:31:41 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths , esp small dogs References: <4.3.1.2.20050601123615.0273a648@mail.frys.com> <016d01c566ff$091b12b0$05000400@HELENPINTO> In-Reply-To: <016d01c566ff$091b12b0$05000400@HELENPINTO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speaking of carrying small animals in your clothing.... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8117876/?GT1=6657 "There must have been something fishy about the way she walked. Customs officials said Monday they stopped a woman as she arrived Friday in the southern city of Melbourne on a flight from Singapore and found 51 live tropical fish allegedly hidden in a specially designed apron under her skirt...." Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:37:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57HbD6p025364 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:37:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57HaJZ3048749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:36:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HaF6W018293; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:36:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HaBh7018136 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:36:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so221260nzn for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:36:05 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=hs8j+G+8JXDjQu+g2KRm2kd3/7KOYiqDw8OImx3LRymQ5yzBC2+JcWj1W3XsFoWgEgH0uA03VZkogw3u7qzPvOoo/A7cDepg8mK4lf+zYzhPCaK2xyaJWiNdcWWzPX2zNPm7wJXRmQ7L28WSZIlmHiHPP05/gfa5lrfbS8ZH0k8= Received: by 10.36.148.20 with SMTP id v20mr1584441nzd; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:36:05 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57HaBh7018136 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths (corsetry) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths >So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset with my best >1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't reach to my waist, but as I have >no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a >deep breath. My body size is much like yours and my current gown project is based on the 1628 portrait of Henrietta of Lorraine. The conical corset will give you the right body shape; cleavage was not guaranteed. (I dont get any either.) A corset should never be too tight so tight you cant breathe. Never. Never. It sounds to me like your corset doesnt actually fit. Perhaps the area over the diaphragm is too tight with respect to the bustline and/or waistline. Second guess is that it's too big and you are compensating by over tightening. I can polka all nite in my Elizo-Stuart corset (yeah, yeah polka's out of period, but you know what I mean), I can buckle my shoes, I can drive in a car with bucketseats. What should you do? Find a corsetiere who can make one that actually fits you. Neat tidy sewing that just follows the pattern isnt guaranteed to fit anyone. If you can find someone who's just as skinny, then s/he'll know the special problems and solutions for your body type. When I'm wandering down at the skinnier end of my weight range, I even put the out-of-period shoulder straps back on my corset. It helps with the tendancy towards slippage. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:45:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57HjcKf025422 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:45:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57HijU7049891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:44:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HihZE026182; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:44:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HCmpC098542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dfhd0-0000zs-UQ; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:12:38 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:12:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20050607121238.xdo7jtyjfe0o08w4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 12:12:38 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: nature (waws Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair) References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002201c56b37$a5c128c0$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <002201c56b37$a5c128c0$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Quoting Elizabeth Walpole : > There is one scene where she actually removes all her clothes > and takes a dip in a local pond, but it's presented as something she does > because she is a dreamy, poetic sort of person who loves nature (unlike > everyone else in the Middle Ages of course ;) rather than out of any thought > of actual cleanliness. >> > > Well yeah, everyone else hated nature coz it was out to kill them, nature is > frost and snow and sunburn and disease. only people who live far away from > nature like the thought of being close to nature.:) You know, there's still a lot of truth in that statement. I was leading a group of children on a hike in the Smoky Mountains National Park. The kids who were "afraid" of being Out In The Woods were the ones that lived in Gatlinburg (the town^H^H^H^HTourist-Trap) that's right next to the park! Susan (botanist and wildflower junkie) ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 13:52:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57HqJWV025436 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:52:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57HotnA050644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:50:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HoniL031311; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:50:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net (smtp5.suscom.net [64.78.83.238]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HojQQ031163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:50:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066D651029F for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp5.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02229-02-25 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0AEC851029A for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01b701c56b89$5f5eff40$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org><42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net><024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <025b01c56b86$10f9e750$0400a8c0@compaqub> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:50:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sablerose" >>I saw a man in a pair a couple of weeks ago wearing a pair where the toe >>extended about 3-4 inches out, narrowing and curving slight up. >> >> He was the manager of a shoe store, so this must be a hot new trend. > > > > On one of the "What Not To Wear" episodes on TLC, the host Stacy was going > on and on about how pointy shoes were the revolutionary newnewnew thing, > and I just had to put my head in my hands and groan. Oy. Stacy also believes every woman should wear nothing BUT pointy-toed high heels. I don't care if they make my legs look longer, I cannot stand to wear heels. They HURT. And it's not like people will suddenly not realize that I'm short! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 14:14:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57IEaYn025572 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:14:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57IDdKN053324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:13:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57IDXRU050696; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57IDNqI050554 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 03082262846 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:13:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000d01c56b8c$a38a7200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:13:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pride and prejudice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? The time is set to 1795. How do you think the costumes are? http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/prideandprejudice.html Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 14:24:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57IOqDh025666 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:24:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57IO4Ab054556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:24:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57IO3XS059442; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:24:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57INwog059382 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 438EE5EE010 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:23:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001b01c56b8e$1ea512f0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607155720.014e0ed0@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607174517.014e11a0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century corset was costuming myths Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:24:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Will you ask Ian if he would mind you sharing the photos? I would really > like to see a corset of that period, and I am sure the other members of > the list would too. Also is he going to publish any information about it? > That would be even better. > > Suzi Hi Suzi, Well i should try and ask him about it, i know he only has a slow internet provider, so perhaps it would be difficult to send me pictures. Bjarne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 14:25:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57IPUEO025669 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:25:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57IOeT4054628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:24:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57IOcoP059850; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:24:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57IOKxL059586 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 91746 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 18:24:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 18:24:14 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:22:36 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-Reply-To: <000d01c56b8c$a38a7200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:13 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? >The time is set to 1795. >How do you think the costumes are? >http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/prideandprejudice.html >Bjarne Personal opinion only. I think these costumes bear very little relationship to 1795. Judi Dench, who is "posh" is wearing clothes from the 1780's at the latest, and so are many of the older women. No attempt seems to have been made to give the leading actresses anything like the right period hair styles. The dresses look limp and skimpy, and the coat that Keira Knightley is seen in beggars description. I for one will not be paying good money to see this. There are enough fashion plates and paintings about for the designer to look at. Why didn't he/she? Or if they did, the interpretation is not what mine would have been. Can you tell I don't like it? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 14:59:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57Ixp9b025957 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:59:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57IvvHi058567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57IvWO7087042; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:57:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57IvMS6086821 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:57:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399BF3C6C3 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:57:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A5EDFA.5090504@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:56:58 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] new historical tv series? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sometime over the weekend while I was travelling I saw a preview or an ad for what I think was a new US TV series -- a family drama set in American Colonial times. Unfortunately, I can't remember the details of where or what I saw in the airports, on billboards, or late night channel surfing on hotel cable tv. Does anyone here know what I'm talking about? It might be a movie or a mini-series, but I'm pretty sure it was TV because the thought of historical TV drama caught my attention. I'd love to find more info on the program, whatever it was. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:41:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57KfU4O026756 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Kdpub074047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:39:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KdcsD027485; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KdScr027315 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:39:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E24C5EE060 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:39:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:39:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Strange, i think i replyed to your mail, but it didnt get trough, so i try once more: I think that excactly this point, that the mature ladies in the film wears 1780ies styles, makes it more realistic. Remember that fashion changed very slowly in the small country towns, and didnt the previous film, wich i love and treassure, make the Bennet family richer than it is in the novel? I find it very likely that ladies in a mature age, didnt dare to wear the high waisted fashion, and especially not country ladies. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice > At 20:13 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi, >>Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? >>The time is set to 1795. >>How do you think the costumes are? >>http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/prideandprejudice.html >>Bjarne > > > Personal opinion only. I think these costumes bear very little > relationship to 1795. Judi Dench, who is "posh" is wearing clothes from > the 1780's at the latest, and so are many of the older women. No attempt > seems to have been made to give the leading actresses anything like the > right period hair styles. The dresses look limp and skimpy, and the coat > that Keira Knightley is seen in beggars description. I for one will not be > paying good money to see this. There are enough fashion plates and > paintings about for the designer to look at. Why didn't he/she? Or if they > did, the interpretation is not what mine would have been. > > Can you tell I don't like it? > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:42:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57KgZk6026766 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:42:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57KfFJM074278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:41:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KfDcn029003; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:41:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:nQtfs4gvQZOiuKYm+lrFe8dNWMxYJ1Bd@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57H4tNS091871 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j57H4tgw013382 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:04:55 -0400 Received: from dci012034015113.discovery.com ([12.34.15.113]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <50210.12.34.15.113.1118163895.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <42A5CB55.3070403@reddawn.net> References: <42A5CB55.3070403@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:04:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair, was costuming myths From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/919/Tue Jun 7 09:26:14 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn said, > Not trying to say that your herbal rinse isn't a great way to care for > hair, but that folks who might be aprehensive about taking the step away > from a modern product CAN do things less scary than giving up shampoo > entirely. For those in the Washington, DC area, here's a shameless commercial plug - my friend Alan is planning to open a salon for long hair. http://www.downyourback.com/ Since we long-haired types don't go to salons very often, it will take more of us to support it - even if just occasionally for hair toys and bariding. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:42:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57KgdeB026769 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57KeJgB074146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:40:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KeHRk028154; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:40:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57GQSuj058213 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j57GPld03718.; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:25:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:25:47 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:25:35 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century corset was costuming myths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57GQSuj058213 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Note that I said "my best 1640s attire". For most events I wear a lightly boned wool bodice with a firm lining, which provides quite enough support for me. However, I bought a ready-made corset to wear with a lighter-weight bodice for parties and concerts, hoping it might give me a bit of cleavage. (It doesn't unless I use padding.) One of these days I must make myself a new "best" bodice and experiment with a different style. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 07/06/2005 16:01 >>> >Do you actually *need* to wear a corset? Many of the extant bodices >(often silk) of the 1640's that I have seen have bones built into them, >thus saving the necessity of a separate corset. It seems perfectly >possible that corsets may not have been worn at this time, although I >have no proof either way. I do not know of any corsets actually in >existence from this era. Does anyone else know of any? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:42:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57KggjH026772 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:42:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57KfY0G074353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:41:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KfWZ0029234; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:41:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57HFpYe000516 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:16:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so213410nzn for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:15:45 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=UD0G7IJl/mknvtayXy3i407Qd4beAdGrCC5QN8/tyOT8oaxiKUoOG9m5bpHs6BNFeyFkYQcYNVAGICqSwfHXRTVp3zBt//fU0WyWeHewKAqQV8YZ6kENVP1b46jHfEG78SHRxbsK/Lx4PfcJytmpguSr7z85kNnVdanglA4rAxQ= Received: by 10.36.222.33 with SMTP id u33mr1536283nzg; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:15:45 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-MC-Metrics: net.indra.com 1128; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57HFpYe000516 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question At 00:17 08/06/2005 +1200, you wrote: > I have a couple of examples of silk duchesse satin which is really heavy, >not too shiny, and curls like the devil so it is almost un-handleable!! Argh, modern duchesse! Fiendish stuff. A friend just flung 2 yds of the curly writhing demon infested stuff at me (including cutout garment pieces) with a screech of frustration. I've tamed it somewhat using a very lightweight fusible interfacing. Some of the smaller garment pieces became an impromptu fusibles sampler. Of the dozen I tried, pellon shirtweight and Easy-Knit tamed the duchess demonic curl without destroying the "hand". The 1/2 yd test piece she tossed in the washer has an amusing change of personality. It's limper, scrunchy, less curly and the shiny glaze is gone. It will probably become a hat. >The >acetate satin on the other hand is really good and ideal for Edwardian/late >Victorian skirts, which is what I was looking for. I can't remember prices, >but the duchesse is far more than I would want to pay, I remember that! >Suzi I would never use acetate on any vintage reconstruction. I think it looks cheap & modern, which it is. If you need something for those Edwardian evening gowns that isnt quite so heavyweight or expensive, then try some the taffeta & damask woven silks. Lovely hand, documentable fiber content, looks elegant. What's not to like? OTOH, look at all those Worth gowns... beading looks grand on silk satin. Dee-lish! --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:43:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57KhLPw026778 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57KgZUq074514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KgYRS030065; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57IR1xd061815 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:27:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f81.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.129]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B74347FEB8 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:26:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002001c56b8e$8dd12830$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000d01c56b8c$a38a7200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:27:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Forgot to give you my 2 cents. To me it looks as if there are some ladies who still wears 1780ies fashions, This i think is realistic. I can imagine how slow fashion changes in small villages, and especially mature ladies, would not dare to change to the new high waisted fashion. I have heard that people dont like this, but i think it gives a realistic image of how life was in the country back then. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:13 PM Subject: [h-cost] pride and prejudice > Hi, > Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? > The time is set to 1795. > How do you think the costumes are? > http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/prideandprejudice.html > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:43:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57KhbVg026786 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:43:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57KgsTQ074545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:42:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Kgmf7030240; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:42:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57IYsCv068139 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:34:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 27391 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jun 2005 18:34:48 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=J/zlFH/gxQJzxfd5/VCT3+KTXTqgBNtfOSzoW3IjOvhsHyLHEXopDvKlzUVEOAXTA/s/SxMgFnGRD+CrNspWNxW4kbyL9ffIHs6FxkUyCO0xRDZ1HsQAyL/UobwneFrSqh20wB674/4ZPnIBWyM8NMACbwN2PcgS9jLjyJcx3+k= ; Message-ID: <20050607183448.27389.qmail@web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:34:48 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:34:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Info please :) !!!! Thank you, Chris G. Kate M Bunting wrote: When I wanted to make a new stomacher a few years ago, like you I couldn't find anything nearly stiff enough in the shops. Drea Leed told me (via this list ) how to make my own buckram by painting several thicknesses of canvas with dilute glue (the white kind used for sticking paper). I've made two stomachers in this way and it works very well. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:44:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57Ki28O026793 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57KhCu7074573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:43:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KhBVe030597; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:43:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57Iucah086222 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:56:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 18331 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 18:56:19 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 11:56:19 -0700 Received: from 24.4.69.40 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1341.24.4.69.40.1118170597.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> References: <000d01c56b8c$a38a7200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 20:13 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >>Hi, >>Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? >>The time is set to 1795. >>How do you think the costumes are? >>http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/prideandprejudice.html >>Bjarne > > > Personal opinion only. I think these costumes bear very little > relationship > to 1795. Judi Dench, who is "posh" is wearing clothes from the 1780's at > the latest, and so are many of the older women. No attempt seems to have > been made to give the leading actresses anything like the right period > hair > styles. The dresses look limp and skimpy, and the coat that Keira > Knightley > is seen in beggars description. I for one will not be paying good money to > see this. There are enough fashion plates and paintings about for the > designer to look at. Why didn't he/she? Or if they did, the interpretation > is not what mine would have been. > I agree that things don't look appropriate or fitted. I also think that too many of the characters looked "dressed down" while in company. But that doesn't mean that I won't pay money to see it. If I only saw movies based on how good/period the costumes are, I would miss many otherwise good movies! It will be hard to see new people play my old favorite characters, but I am going to try to give it a chance. I also plan to see the early BBC version of P & P soon. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 16:46:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57KkW65026816 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:46:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57KjRe7074898 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:45:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57KjC5o032254; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:45:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Kj5Ym032120 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:45:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DfkwZ-0001h0-8b for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:45:03 +0000 Message-ID: <+VFpTgCMcgpCJwkj@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:43:56 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice References: <000d01c56b8c$a38a7200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000d01c56b8c$a38a7200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<7i0N+lGT4zNw0E4tDFpTW2k19v>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote >Hi, >Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? >The time is set to 1795. >How do you think the costumes are? >http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/prideandprejudice.html >Bjarne > It looks terribly dark and dismal, for most of it. I played the trailer without sound, and if I hadn't know I would have assumed it was Jane Eyre (lots of windswept heath) or something set in the Grim North. The designer obviously had a bad attack of "history must be mud-coloured". And the hair is just rubbish and kills any historical atmosphere. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:00:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57L0tDq027008 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57L04cD076776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:00:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57L00sE044863; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:00:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57Kxr2n044686 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 19746 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 20:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 20:59:47 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607215335.01601ff8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:57:43 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-Reply-To: <001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 22:39 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Strange, i think i replyed to your mail, but it didnt get trough, so i try >once more: > >I think that excactly this point, that the mature ladies in the film wears >1780ies styles, makes it more realistic. >Remember that fashion changed very slowly in the small country towns, and >didnt the previous film, wich i love and treassure, make the Bennet family >richer than it is in the novel? >I find it very likely that ladies in a mature age, didnt dare to wear the >high waisted fashion, and especially not country ladies. Yes, but Lady Whosis(can't remember - Catherine de Burgh?) , the character that Judi Dench plays, as far as I remember is a fashionable lady, and would not be seen dead in the fashions of 15 years before. I have seen totally unflattering portraits of upper class ladies in that fashion, and they were awful!! And if the Bennett girls are poor, then why are they wearing supposedly fashionable clothes - there were 5(?) of them and Father could not have afforded fashionable clothes for all of them. No I'm sorry, I am prejudiced against it from the start - I really loathe the costumes!! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:01:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57L14kC027015 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:01:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57L05NC076777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57L00m9044862; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:00:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57KxrqD044681 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 19738 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 20:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 20:59:46 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607214457.014e1500@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:52:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Satin question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >e: > > I have a couple of examples of silk duchesse satin which is really heavy, > >not too shiny, and curls like the devil so it is almost un-handleable!! > >Argh, modern duchesse! Fiendish stuff. A friend just flung 2 yds of >the curly writhing demon infested stuff at me (including cutout >garment pieces) with a screech of frustration. I've tamed it somewhat >using a very lightweight fusible interfacing. Some of the smaller >garment pieces became an impromptu fusibles sampler. Of the dozen I >tried, pellon shirtweight and Easy-Knit tamed the duchess demonic curl >without destroying the "hand". > >The 1/2 yd test piece she tossed in the washer has an amusing change >of personality. It's limper, scrunchy, less curly and the shiny glaze >is gone. It will probably become a hat. > > >The > >acetate satin on the other hand is really good and ideal for Edwardian/late > >Victorian skirts, which is what I was looking for. I can't remember prices, > >but the duchesse is far more than I would want to pay, I remember that! > > >Suzi > >I would never use acetate on any vintage reconstruction. I think it >looks cheap & modern, which it is. Sorry to disagree, but the acetate satin I get here in England is perfectly fine for period reproductions. I have a genuine late Victorian/Edwardian skirt, and the weight, feel, hand and sheen are almost identical. > If you need something for those >Edwardian evening gowns that isnt quite so heavyweight or expensive, >then try some the taffeta & damask woven silks. Lovely hand, >documentable fiber content, looks elegant. For what I want, the satin is ideal. Taffeta and damask would be quite inappropriate as the customer wants an all-purpose skirt to go with different bodices for different events - a shirtwaist blouse for day wear, and an evening bodice for evening recitals. I have a genuine Worth bodice in damask, from about 1893, and nothing I have seen comes near to it. I would almost say it was a cotton/silk mixture. The colour, texture and hand are really difficult to match with anything modern. There is an identical bodice in satin, with a matching skirt, in Boston I think. I am not going into the beading thing - again, not what the customer wants. And the customer is King! > What's not to like? OTOH, >look at all those Worth gowns... beading looks grand on silk satin. I am not going into the beading thing - again, not what the customer wants. And the customer is King! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:01:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57L1Lix027021 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:01:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57L0T8S076828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:00:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57L0SRT045276; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:00:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57L0ONf045213 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:00:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DflBP-0004xo-9T for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:00:24 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:59:12 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin veils Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <001e01c5680f$6392f260$71dbf5dc@e9q5h8> <42A5AE4F.2010902@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <42A5AE4F.2010902@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote >Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > >> Actually, while draping the veil over the whole hennin (i.e. pointy hat) was >> more common there is evidence for veils dangling from the tip too. See this >> page http://members.fortunecity.com/cadieuxx/burgundy3.html the pictures >> showing veils dangling from the tip are about halfway down the page. > >I belive that most of those have veils that run along the cone snugly, >and then fall off at the end, giving the appearance of just at the tip. >You can see some light colored tracings at the front of the cones which >may be folded "cuffs" on the veils, and some of them show the veil >continuing over the forehead -- notably the fourth and sixth on that >line on that page. > >It's possible that the others hang just from the tip, but I'd be >willing to put money against it. Larger versions of the images would >give us better information. > I have tried this (not in a totally period context - my work colleagues made me a big cone hennin for my leaving present, half-filled with chocolates, and I undertook to wear it on my last day!) (without the chocolates!!) What I found was that, even with a very light veil, as near to transparent as I could get, when you have that much length there's still quite a bit of weight to it. Attaching it to the point would make it extremely difficult to balance the cone, but when it is draped over the whole length it works. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:17:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57LHvow027268 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57LH3PV078773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:17:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LGuHE064049; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LGn7C063895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:16:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DflR6-0005K8-Fn; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:16:36 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:16:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:16:36 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] cleaning velcro (tm) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that y'all know just about everything .... Is there a way to get that junk out of velcro (tm)? The one side attracts *everything* Thanks, Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:27:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57LRR0x027310 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:27:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57LQbZu079896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:26:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LQXc2072021; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:26:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LQOcr071906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:26:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j57LMFTJ026233 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:22:15 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:22:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A610FE.80909@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:26:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cleaning velcro (tm) References: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan B. Farmer wrote: > Is there a way to get that junk out of velcro (tm)? The one side attracts > *everything* Clothilde used to sell a little wire brush dingus for just this purpose. If you have carding combs, it's much the same, but smaller. It's also like the little wire brush for suede-sole dance shoes. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:48:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57LmGEq027452 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:48:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Ll5JL082321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:47:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Ll2nX088434; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:47:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LkvaN088357 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:46:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7PUAZLQO8Y9PVX@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:46:55 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7PUANHO08Y9QX0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:46:54 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:48:17 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joannah Hansen wrote: >There is this passage from 'Little House in the Big Woods' by >Laura Ingalls Wilder : > > ' Pull, Ruby, pull! ' Aunt Docia said, breathless. 'Pull >harder.' So Aunt Ruby braced her feet and pulled harder. Aunt >Docia kept measuring her waist with her hands, and at last she >gasped, ' I quess that's the best you can do. ' > She said, ' Caroline says Charles could span her waist with his hands, when they were married. ' > Caroline was Laura's Ma, and when she heard this Laura felt proud. > >Even with tight lacing, to be able to have a waist *that* small, you would have to be a small person. In general, women are *not* big/tall. > > I don't think you can generalise from that. I knew a girl in high school in the 1980s who was 5'0" and had an 18" waist. That doesn't indicate that people were smaller in the 1980s, thogh. Tight lacing was far less common than is popularly imagined. The most common range of sizes for corsets produced in Great Britain was waist sized 18-30 inches, which would have covered natural waist sizes from about 19 to 35 inches. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:50:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57LoIpc027475 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:50:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57LnTov082511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:49:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LnSO6090335; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:49:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LnP9D090286 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7PXCLVJ495PDBN@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:49:22 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7PXC85R08Y91ZP@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:49:21 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:50:44 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A616B4.2010702@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate M Bunting wrote: >So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't reach to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. > > If you can't breathe, your corset is too tight and that's all there is too it. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:55:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57LtLTH027530 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:55:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57LsDIg082990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:54:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LsAPK093865; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:54:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Ls64G093796 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:54:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7Q44H8CG8Y9PVX@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:54:03 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7Q446ANQ8Y9QP8@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:54:02 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:55:25 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] men's peasant costume In-reply-to: <42A5BC94.4040308@reddawn.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A617CD.4000604@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <1f3.b42c715.2fd66aca@aol.com> <42A5BC94.4040308@reddawn.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > TeaRoseS@aol.com wrote: > > >> Someone not on this list was looking at my scans and wondered how >> they held their hose up. Neither the belts nor the hose seem to >> constrict their bodies at all. Would it have been made out of >> something stretchy enough that the ties at the front would hold them >> on? Does anyone have first- or second-hand knowledge of wearing hose >> like that, and if so, how did you keep them from falling off? > > > That one picture you scanned shows a waistband held closed in front > with a looped knot that closes a gap or perhaps an inch or two. I > would guess that the tension there is enough to hold the hose up, > combined with the close fit of the hose themselves. If the waist is > cut on the straight so it doesn't stretch then you'd get good hold. > > My one experiment with men's bias hose was 15 years ago, but I recall > that they did keep themselves up reasonably well. Not to mention that the waistband itself may well be cut on the straight rather than the bias. If so, once it was pointed on at the front, there simply wouldn't be enough stretch in the back waistband for the hose to go anywhere. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:57:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57Lv7tL027550 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:57:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57LtcmP083142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LtUv4094843; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LtKA0094707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:55:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j57LpCTJ026359 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:51:12 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A617C7.3060803@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:55:19 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin veils Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <001e01c5680f$6392f260$71dbf5dc@e9q5h8> <42A5AE4F.2010902@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > Attaching it to the point > would make it extremely difficult to balance the cone, but when it is > draped over the whole length it works. A pound of bb-gun shot in a cloth bag inside the front does wonders. ;) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Want to see my Brass Rubbings?" "Mediaevalist on Board" license plate frames at http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 17:58:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57LwHtJ027563 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:58:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Luw7j083247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LucZI095571; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:56:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57LuBAA095301 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7Q6OB62O8Y9PVX@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:56:06 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7Q6NTXEA8Y9QP8@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:56:05 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 09:57:28 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes In-reply-to: <025b01c56b86$10f9e750$0400a8c0@compaqub> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A61848.1090507@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net> <024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <025b01c56b86$10f9e750$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: > > On one of the "What Not To Wear" episodes on TLC, the host Stacy was > going on and on about how pointy shoes were the revolutionary > newnewnew thing, and I just had to put my head in my hands and groan. Oy. > Stacy? Is this some kind of American edition of WNTW? -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:14:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57ME779027692 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MDHge085210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:13:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MD78k008665; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:13:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MCuUt008514 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:13:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7QRGRMOW8Y9PVX@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:12:52 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7QRGLPUC8Y9UON@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:12:51 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:14:14 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-reply-to: <001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A61C36.5040500@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> <001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Strange, i think i replyed to your mail, but it didnt get trough, so i > try once more: > > I think that excactly this point, that the mature ladies in the film > wears 1780ies styles, makes it more realistic. > Remember that fashion changed very slowly in the small country towns, > and didnt the previous film, wich i love and treassure, make the > Bennet family richer than it is in the novel? If you mean the 1996 BBC TV production, then no, I don't think so. The Bennets are comfortable enough to have one manservant and a housekeeper, keep a nice house, and be reasonably well dressed, but poor enough that their horses have to double duty on the farm and drawing their carriage, they don't spend any time in town, and there's no real money to provide a dowry for any of the girls. There's also a hint in that they economise by not heating every room in winter. I think that about jives with the book. You're not thinking of the Dashwoods in Sense and Sensibility, are you? They're definitely more in the area of genteel poverty, with only £500 per annum to support three adults and a little girl. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:17:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57MH9R3027707 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:17:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MGRQU085557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MGQnc011271; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MGNYk011224 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:16:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7QVTAOPS94HI05@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:16:22 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7QVSDWOQ8Y9UON@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:16:21 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:17:44 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-reply-to: <+VFpTgCMcgpCJwkj@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A61D08.6010203@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <000d01c56b8c$a38a7200$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <+VFpTgCMcgpCJwkj@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > [Pride and Prejudice] looks terribly dark and dismal, for most of it. > I played the trailer without sound, and if I hadn't know I would have > assumed it was Jane Eyre (lots of windswept heath) or something set in > the Grim North. The designer obviously had a bad attack of "history > must be mud-coloured". And the hair is just rubbish and kills any > historical atmosphere. Urrgh... I wonder if the script will be as abynmal as that version of Mansfield Park that came out a few years ago... -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:27:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57MRoqs027771 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:27:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MR2Yl086782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:27:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MR1jD019030; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:27:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MQxsU018992 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:27:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02665 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:26:58 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:26:54 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Thread-Index: AcVroYfpHFZNgTQ+RRG3OdfiHinOAgAC+FNg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57MQxsU018992 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I will withhold judgement until I see the movie. Remember that Lady Catherine du Burgh might be wealthy, but she is very opinionated and in all other movie adaptations of P&P we have seen her dressed in the latest fashions--some which look ridiculous on older women who generally didn't wear the latest fashions--and the new fashions of the 1790's were sometimes thought downright indecent by the older generation. High-waisted female fashions hadn't existed since the second quarter of the 17th century among fashionable Europeans, so no one was living to recall fashions of the court of Charles I, let alone the new fashionable muslins, calicoes, and low to flat-heeled slippers. Some gowns of the 18th century survive today that show alteration to the newly-fashionable high waist, but the original long bodice survives within these gowns to show that those that altered them or ordered their alteration, weren't about to trust that the high-waisted fashion would last--the skirt could be lowered back to its original level should Dame Fashion declare it so. As for the movie being dark--it appears to have been shot in natural light--or what would appear to be natural light to our eyes circa 1795. Read P&P again carefully. Despite it being "light, bright and sparkling" compared to the rest of Austen's work, there is a really dark undertone throughout. Also, who did the costuming?--Jenny Beaven who did "Sense and Sensiblity" complained that the higher-ups(read Hollywood big wigs") pressured her into removing several underlayers of petticoats so that the female characters would be more in line with present day thin and flat aesthetics in fashion. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:28:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57MSbJ1027776 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:28:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MLp3X086063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:21:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MLoEP015302; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:21:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MLlis015248 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:21:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7R2F3O5C8WXM98@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:21:44 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7R2EXGOS8Y9UON@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:21:41 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:23:04 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607215335.01601ff8@127.0.0.1> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A61E48.1090500@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607215335.01601ff8@127.0.0.1> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 22:39 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: > >> Strange, i think i replyed to your mail, but it didnt get trough, so >> i try once more: >> >> I think that excactly this point, that the mature ladies in the film >> wears 1780ies styles, makes it more realistic. >> Remember that fashion changed very slowly in the small country towns, >> and didnt the previous film, wich i love and treassure, make the >> Bennet family richer than it is in the novel? >> I find it very likely that ladies in a mature age, didnt dare to wear >> the high waisted fashion, and especially not country ladies. > > > Yes, but Lady Whosis(can't remember - Catherine de Burgh?) , the > character that Judi Dench plays, as far as I remember is a fashionable > lady, and would not be seen dead in the fashions of 15 years before. I don't remember that from the book... must re-read it. All I can remember about Lady C d'B's taste is that her house is very expensively furnished, but her choices show less real taste than the furnishings at Pemberly. > I have seen totally unflattering portraits of upper class ladies in > that fashion, and they were awful!! And if the Bennett girls are poor, > then why are they wearing supposedly fashionable clothes - there were > 5(?) of them and Father could not have afforded fashionable clothes > for all of them. No I'm sorry, I am prejudiced against it from the > start - I really loathe the costumes!! Poverty is relative-- they're poor in terms of the marriage market (the sisters will only inherit £1000 each from their mother and their father's estate is entailed upon their cousin Mr. Collins), but they're not meant to be living some sort of hand-to-mouth existance. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:35:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57MZVBB027825 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:35:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MYcpU087666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:34:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MYb3V024681; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57MYXwV024584 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 63657 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 22:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 22:34:27 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607232655.014e17f8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:32:22 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-Reply-To: <42A61E48.1090500@paradise.net.nz> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607215335.01601ff8@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607215335.01601ff8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57MYXwV024584 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:23 08/06/2005 +1200, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: > >>At 22:39 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >> >>>Strange, i think i replyed to your mail, but it didnt get trough, so i >>>try once more: >>> >>>I think that excactly this point, that the mature ladies in the film >>>wears 1780ies styles, makes it more realistic. >>>Remember that fashion changed very slowly in the small country towns, >>>and didnt the previous film, wich i love and treassure, make the Bennet >>>family richer than it is in the novel? >>>I find it very likely that ladies in a mature age, didnt dare to wear >>>the high waisted fashion, and especially not country ladies. >> >> >>Yes, but Lady Whosis(can't remember - Catherine de Burgh?) , the >>character that Judi Dench plays, as far as I remember is a fashionable >>lady, and would not be seen dead in the fashions of 15 years before. > >I don't remember that from the book... must re-read it. All I can >remember about Lady C d'B's taste is that her house is very expensively >furnished, but her choices show less real taste than the furnishings at >Pemberly. > >>I have seen totally unflattering portraits of upper class ladies in that >>fashion, and they were awful!! And if the Bennett girls are poor, then >>why are they wearing supposedly fashionable clothes - there were 5(?) of >>them and Father could not have afforded fashionable clothes for all of >>them. No I'm sorry, I am prejudiced against it from the start - I really >>loathe the costumes!! > > >Poverty is relative-- they're poor in terms of the marriage market (the >sisters will only inherit £1000 each from their mother and their father's >estate is entailed upon their cousin Mr. Collins), but they're not meant >to be living some sort of hand-to-mouth existance. I have to confess that I am only going on what I learned from the two Austen novels I have read, and the films I have seen. I have not read P and P or S and S. (My choices were Northanger Abbey and Persuasion). I just don't like the costumes from the new one that I have seen. Even if they are "authentic" suitable for age and status, place in the country and in society, and so on, I do not like them. They irk my costumer's soul. (Just because I might have to make costumes on the cheap, out of period and to order, doesn't mean I want to see that kind of costume on screen!!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:38:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57McWTf027846 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:38:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Mbgsm087993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:37:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57Mbgbt026863; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:37:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j57MbdSA026760 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:37:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 30570 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2005 22:37:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jun 2005 22:37:33 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607233336.016009f0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:35:24 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] cleaning velcro (tm) In-Reply-To: <42A610FE.80909@thibault.org> References: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:26 07/06/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Susan B. Farmer wrote: > >>Is there a way to get that junk out of velcro (tm)? The one side attracts >>*everything* > >Clothilde used to sell a little wire brush dingus for just this >purpose. If you have carding combs, it's much the same, but >smaller. It's also like the little wire brush for suede-sole dance shoes. I use a long pin, or my unpicker, and sit for a happy half hour doing a mindless job. (Like getting the knots out of a piece of string, or putting all the long pins in one box, all the short pins in another. All very relaxing and soothing jobs!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:42:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57MgP84027865 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:42:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MfS1N088526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:41:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MfQsH029784; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:41:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f31.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.81]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MfN9u029687 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:41:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:41:18 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.6.213 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:41:17 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.6.213] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200506071800.j57I0QrL039338@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:41:17 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2005 22:41:18.0086 (UTC) FILETIME=[04EC1A60:01C56BB2] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Costuming myths - pointy shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Sablerose" >I saw a man in a pair a couple of weeks ago wearing a pair where the toe >extended about 3-4 inches out, narrowing and curving slight up. >He was the manager of a shoe store, so this must be a hot new trend. I believe winkle-pickers are making a bit of a comeback.... Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:42:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57Mgp29027868 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:42:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57Mg03x088621 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:42:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MfvQY030193; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:41:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail6.mdx.safepages.com (mail6.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.49]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MfsHH030123 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:41:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id C1A11179ED0; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:41:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.88.167.47.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.88.167.47]) by mail6.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 094EB179D30 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:41:52 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <02a401c56bb2$4bb2b1c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com><429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net><024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com><025b01c56b86$10f9e750$0400a8c0@compaqub> <42A61848.1090507@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:42:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adele de Maisieres" > Stacy? Is this some kind of American edition of WNTW? Yup! Didn't realize there was a non-American edition. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:54:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57MsMFt027923 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:54:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MrQbJ089839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:53:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MrO4r038779; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:53:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav12.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MrKQH038675 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:53:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:53:15 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:53:14 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com><20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607233336.016009f0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Soothing jobs Re: [h-cost] cleaning velcro (tm) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:53:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jun 2005 22:53:15.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0486660:01C56BB3] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > (Like getting the knots out of a piece of string, or putting all the long > pins in one box, all the short pins in another. All very relaxing and > soothing jobs!) Ah... or stringing beads on a cord, or sorting them by colour. Or making hems by hand. Or ironing huge quantities of new fabric. I love mindless jobs :-) Well... when I can watch TV or listen to the radio while I do them :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 18:57:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57MvECG027934 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:57:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MtWhY090082 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MtVUP040271; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MtRNU040203 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:55:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7S96OM3K8Y9RG4@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:55:23 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7S96IGRQ8Y8VQK@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:55:23 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:56:46 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes In-reply-to: <02a401c56bb2$4bb2b1c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A6262E.9070702@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net> <024701c56b83$718c6000$79661cac@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <025b01c56b86$10f9e750$0400a8c0@compaqub> <42A61848.1090507@paradise.net.nz> <02a401c56bb2$4bb2b1c0$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO E House wrote: >> Stacy? Is this some kind of American edition of WNTW? > > > Yup! Didn't realize there was a non-American edition. The original is from the BBC, with Trinny Woodall and Susannah Constantine. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 19:02:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57N2l2i027962 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:02:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57MxcgQ090423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MxZlc042897; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57MxTZe042724 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:59:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 6597618001C0 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:59:24 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.34) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 7 Jun 2005 22:59:24 -0000 Received: by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 579D9C610F; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:59:24 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME::Lite 2.117 (F2.6; A1.17; B2.12; Q2.03) Received: from [149.169.167.147] by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:59:24 -0500 X-Mailer: mail.lycos.com webmail From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:59:24 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.167.147 X-Originating-Server: ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050607225924.579D9C610F@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j57MxTZe042724 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: Book for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO _Bridal Fashions: Victorian Era Origional Illustrations, Wedding Photos, Etiquette, Pattern for Doll's 1898 Bridal Gown_ by Helen Shannon. This book is a compellation of mainly late 19th and early 20th century ladies magazines, with a few illustrations from advertisments and pics of extant garments thrown in. There is also a complete pattern for a doll's dress, which has never been removed from the book. I was given the book as a gift a few years ago, its not my period, so I have never used it. I'm asking $20, which includes shipping. If interested please email me off list. -Katie -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 19:08:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57N8wwv027988 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:08:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57N82b0091371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:08:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57N81AZ054718; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57N7vXi054068 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j57N7oP22144 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:07:50 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:11:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <6DB6013D-D7A9-11D9-B2ED-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, I could not bear my curiosity any longer, so I did watch the trailer. While I did not find it entirely loathsome, I still must admit to a fondness and preference for Colin Firth as Darcy. The "fine eyes" of Miss Elizabeth Bennett are lost in the ethereal beauty of Kieara Knightly and I cannot comprehend anyone saying about her beauty "that they would sooner find her Mother a wit." Hello? That's Kieara Knightly you are calling un-lovely. And as for Mr. Collins, he doesn't not even begin to have the delicious oiliness of the one from the BBC version. Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 19:32:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j57NWgZk028149 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j57NVpAw093272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:31:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57NVo7t076258; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:31:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j57NViBa076201 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:31:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7TI6W3R48Y9RG4@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:31:41 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7TI3MZ528Y9UON@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:31:36 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 11:32:59 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice In-reply-to: <6DB6013D-D7A9-11D9-B2ED-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A62EAB.3020302@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <6DB6013D-D7A9-11D9-B2ED-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Althea Turner wrote: > The "fine eyes" of Miss Elizabeth Bennett are lost in the ethereal > beauty of Kieara Knightly and I cannot comprehend anyone saying about > her beauty "that they would sooner find her Mother a wit." Hello? > That's Kieara Knightly you are calling un-lovely. Er, well, it's supposed to be an unfounded remark-- although I suspect she's a bit brown and skinny for late 18th century tastes. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 20:04:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5804t4G028397 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:04:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5803vGE096137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:03:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5803sX5095182; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:03:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5803nov095092 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:03:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IHQ00BZRO4O5G@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.33] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.43]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:03:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:03:30 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3407a373407ee5.3407ee53407a37@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Unfortunately the crown has suffered being slightly crushed. I *could* try to re-stiffen the backing, but it is badly degraded and very bent. Would fine weave cross stich fabric with many layers of thined glue work? I am the bride and going nuts with all of the minute details!!!! All of the big details were easy.... Now to find a good cheap local florist. Katheryne ------------- Original Message --------------- From: Lynn Downward Sometimes crinoline was used instead of buckram; If you really need the buckram to keep the shape that's a bit different. I only have the very heavy buckram and black crinoline in my stash. I could send you some of the heavy but it might be TOO heavy. Contact me off list. You may need the regular weight buckram, which I don't have. Maybe someone else can help you? And sometimes you can restiffen the buckram. Let me know if you want some instruction on that - very simple to do, tiresome for others to read. Are you the bride? LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 20:31:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j580V8Vi028537 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j580UFj2098248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:30:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580UE4O009574; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:30:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580UBca009548 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:30:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m197.in-tch.com [216.166.191.197]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j580P8403458 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42A63D6A.7010104@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:35:54 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] cleaning velcro (tm) References: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO How about using a bit of the same side of the velcro, and stroking it across the cruddy bit? (I'm assuming you're referring to the hookie side and not the loopie side.) I do something similar to clean the recalcitrant wool from my wool cards (use one to clean the other...it's called "stripping," IIRC). The trick is to make sure that the hooks on both pieces are pointed in the same direction, like this: / / / / / / / / and NOT like this: / \ / \ / \ / \ Does that make any sense? (sorry for the bad ascii art). --sue Susan B. Farmer wrote: > I know that y'all know just about everything .... > > Is there a way to get that junk out of velcro (tm)? The one side attracts > *everything* > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 20:37:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j580bNsJ028570 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:37:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j580ahR0098761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:36:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580aflk012928; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:36:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580adnw012885 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:36:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m197.in-tch.com [216.166.191.197]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j580VX404728 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:31:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42A63EEA.7010501@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:42:18 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Soothing jobs Re: [h-cost] cleaning velcro (tm) References: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com><20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20050607233336.016009f0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I need something soothing and relatively mindless, I'll do dishes (nice in winter because my hands like the heat), or I'll knit something, or spin. I absolutely loathe hand hemming ;o( . Reorganizing a bookshelf or my racks of CDs is also nice. Oh, and then there's always working in the garden, season allowing.... --sue Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >> (Like getting the knots out of a piece of string, or putting all the >> long pins in one box, all the short pins in another. All very relaxing >> and soothing jobs!) > > > Ah... or stringing beads on a cord, or sorting them by colour. Or making > hems by hand. Or ironing huge quantities of new fabric. > > I love mindless jobs :-) Well... when I can watch TV or listen to the > radio while I do them :-) _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 20:41:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j580fcWT028600 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:41:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j580etmM099060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580esMj015022; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc1-s42.bay6.hotmail.com (omc1-s42.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.248.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580eqZl014967 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.94]) by omc1-s42.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:40:47 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:40:47 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by BAY106-DAV22.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:40:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: costuming myths Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:40:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2005 00:40:47.0235 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6116D30:01C56BC2] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Learn to breathe like singers and babies do, from the belly, by expanding your belly instead of pushing your breasts outward. You won't be able to take quite as big a breath as when you're not wearing a corset, but it shouldn't be too constricting. Also, you can make your corset out of something that stretches slightly, like linen. > So what should I do if I have nothing much to support, but wear a corset > with my best 1640s attire to try to create the right look? It doesn't > reach to my waist, but as I have no spare flesh on my torso, my ribs are > unavoidably constricted so that I can't take a deep breath. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 20:43:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j580hnYc028624 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j580hApt099195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:43:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580h9Mp016159; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:43:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580h6FE016098 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r2.2.) id 6.1c2.2a261736 (48600) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:43:00 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c2.2a261736.2fd79913@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:42:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/7/2005 2:14:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? The time is set to 1795. How do you think the costumes are? Not bad. But they seem awfully....grey. Y'know, dull. But it's hard to tell from just the trailer. I was struck at how many of the lines are EXACTLY the same as in the miniseries that A&E and the BBC did. They must be lifted right from the pages of the novel. BTW....that miniseries is WONDERFUL and very well costumed. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 20:51:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j580pgNZ028647 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:51:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j580p3cV099800 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:51:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580p10h020314; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:51:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580ov8q020232 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:50:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r2.2.) id 6.1e9.3d9159a5 (48600) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:50:47 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e9.3d9159a5.2fd79ae7@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:50:47 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/7/2005 4:42:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: To me it looks as if there are some ladies who still wears 1780ies fashions, This i think is realistic. I can imagine how slow fashion changes in small villages, and especially mature ladies, would not dare to change to the new high waisted fashion. True....but Judi Dench plays, I think, Lady De Bourgh, who I think would be right at the height of fashion, though sensible, not 15 years behind. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 20:56:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j580uva4028679 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:56:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j580tElq000251 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:55:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580tE9U022558; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:55:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j580tBsm022490 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:55:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r2.2.) id 6.212.2635c2b (48600) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:55:04 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <212.2635c2b.2fd79be8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:55:04 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j580uva4028679 Status: RO In a message dated 6/7/2005 6:14:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyadele@paradise.net.nz writes: You're not thinking of the Dashwoods in Sense and Sensibility, are you? They're definitely more in the area of genteel poverty, with only £500 per annum to support three adults and a little girl. But that is where they END UP after the father [who had money] dies. I think they might have saved some things from when they had money....not just suddenly gone poor in every respect. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 22:34:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j582YvGn029492 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j582XvJE008449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:33:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j582Xrgx073422; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:33:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j582XnRg073381 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:33:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP7ZTRPCKW94I4T1@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:33:46 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP7ZTPOHXS8Y5NJR@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:32:46 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:34:09 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-reply-to: <212.2635c2b.2fd79be8@aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A65921.9070602@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <212.2635c2b.2fd79be8@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 6/7/2005 6:14:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >ladyadele@paradise.net.nz writes: > >You're not thinking of the Dashwoods in Sense and Sensibility, are you? >They're definitely more in the area of genteel poverty, with only £500 >per annum to support three adults and a little girl. > > >But that is where they END UP after the father [who had money] dies. I think >they might have saved some things from when they had money....not just >suddenly gone poor in every respect. > > They don't have a heck of a lot beyond personal posessions, and that's all they're really entitled to. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 7 23:01:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58311X7029694 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:01:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5830BfM011063 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:00:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5830Asn087654; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:00:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58307DO087592 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:00:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.138.182]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050608030002.KSLB11463.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:00:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c56bd6$a63b3a80$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com><429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> <001e01c5680f$6392f260$71dbf5dc@e9q5h8> <42A5AE4F.2010902@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin veils Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:03:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Waddie" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 4:59 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin veils Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) > Cynthia Virtue wrote > >Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > > >> Actually, while draping the veil over the whole hennin (i.e. pointy hat) was > >> more common there is evidence for veils dangling from the tip too. See this > >> page http://members.fortunecity.com/cadieuxx/burgundy3.html the pictures > >> showing veils dangling from the tip are about halfway down the page. > > > >I belive that most of those have veils that run along the cone snugly, > >and then fall off at the end, giving the appearance of just at the tip. > >You can see some light colored tracings at the front of the cones which > >may be folded "cuffs" on the veils, and some of them show the veil > >continuing over the forehead -- notably the fourth and sixth on that > >line on that page. > > > >It's possible that the others hang just from the tip, but I'd be > >willing to put money against it. Larger versions of the images would > >give us better information. > > > I have tried this (not in a totally period context - my work colleagues > made me a big cone hennin for my leaving present, half-filled with > chocolates, and I undertook to wear it on my last day!) (without the > chocolates!!) What I found was that, even with a very light veil, as > near to transparent as I could get, when you have that much length > there's still quite a bit of weight to it. Attaching it to the point > would make it extremely difficult to balance the cone, but when it is > draped over the whole length it works. > > Jean > -- > Jean Waddie Somewhere in my picture stash, there is a painting of a lady with a sheer veil draped in such a manner over her hat, but it starts quite low on her forhead. Tinkering around with a piece of fabric, straight pins, and my truncated hennin, I found that this makes the entire thing sit *very* securely on your head. You could easily let a large amount of fabric hang from the back of the hat this way, because of the extra security of the fabric on the forhead holding the hat on. Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 00:11:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j584BDSw030276 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:11:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j584A8YT016456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:10:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584A4oa023140; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:10:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584A04F023082 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:10:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l237j.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.12.243] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DfrtA-0007Pj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:10:00 -0400 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050607230549.028c4ec0@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:09:30 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200506072126.j57LQaer072069@net.indra.com> References: <200506072126.j57LQaer072069@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: historical TV series? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn, I think you're seeing previews for "Into the West" which will be a 6 installment series/miniseries this summer. It is produced by Steven Spielberg. I'm looking forward to at least checking it out. Sandy >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:56:58 -0500 >From: Dawn >Subject: [h-cost] new historical tv series? > >Sometime over the weekend while I was travelling I saw a preview or an >ad for what I think was a new US TV series -- a family drama set in >American Colonial times. Unfortunately, I can't remember the details of >where or what I saw in the airports, on billboards, or late night >channel surfing on hotel cable tv. Does anyone here know what I'm >talking about? It might be a movie or a mini-series, but I'm pretty sure >it was TV because the thought of historical TV drama caught my >attention. I'd love to find more info on the program, whatever it was. > >Dawn "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 00:18:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j584ICeu030345 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:18:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j584HRYP017217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:17:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584HQ1I026942; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:17:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584HMPY026853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:17:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j585bhBT001578 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:37:44 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hennin veils Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:17:12 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <42A5AE4F.2010902@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506080017.13144.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday 07 June 2005 4:59 pm, Jean Waddie wrote: [snip] > I have tried this (not in a totally period context - my work colleagues > made me a big cone hennin for my leaving present, half-filled with > chocolates, and I undertook to wear it on my last day!) (without the > chocolates!!) What I found was that, even with a very light veil, as > near to transparent as I could get, when you have that much length > there's still quite a bit of weight to it. Attaching it to the point > would make it extremely difficult to balance the cone, but when it is > draped over the whole length it works. Now that I think of it, the hennins I've seen with the veil on the tip of the cone feature much shorter veils than the over the length draped veils. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 00:52:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j584qS4B030552 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j584pmR7020122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:51:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584plVE043183; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:51:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584piEu043153 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:51:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-44-013.jps.net ([209.165.44.13]) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DfsXX-00014e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:51:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> References: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:56:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:48 AM +1200 6/8/05, Adele de Maisieres wrote: >I don't think you can generalise from that. I knew a girl in high >school in the 1980s who was 5'0" and had an 18" waist. That doesn't >indicate that people were smaller in the 1980s, thogh. As I understand it, the whole "people were smaller back then" myth comes mostly from trying to extrapolate backwards from the wrong data. If I recall correctly, *lower-class* people *were* smaller in the mid-19th century than most people are today, mostly (as has been said) due to poor nutrition. However, people sometimes then go on to assume that smaller body size is a continuing trend the further back in history you go, and it's clearly not. Rather, the 19th century seems to have shown a decided "dip" in the heights of people who weren't in the comfortable or upper classes, compared to (say) the 16th or the 13th century. The speculation is that this is likely due to the mass movement of people into cities, where the effective earning power of an ordinary laborer was no higher than back on the farm, _and_ a lot less fresh or nutirious food was available or affordable. People such as our beloved late-Victorian ancestors, who certainly _wished_ to believe they were living in an age of progress, also proceeded to look for evidence that people were smaller in the Middle Ages, and of course found some -- while not finding, or sometimes ignoring, any evidence that would indicate otherwise. This would also explain why it always seems to be the same few pieces of evidence that are trotted out to "explain" the supposed trend. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 00:52:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j584qiLk030558 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:52:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j584pxEM020143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584pxUT043294; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:51:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584puc6043277 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:51:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-44-013.jps.net ([209.165.44.13]) by pop05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DfsXj-00014e-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:51:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050607121238.xdo7jtyjfe0o08w4@www.goldsword.com> References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <002201c56b37$a5c128c0$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8> <20050607121238.xdo7jtyjfe0o08w4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:51:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: nature (waws Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:12 PM -0500 6/7/05, Susan B. Farmer wrote: >Quoting Elizabeth Walpole : > >> There is one scene where she actually removes all her clothes >>and takes a dip in a local pond, but it's presented as something she does >>because she is a dreamy, poetic sort of person who loves nature (unlike >>everyone else in the Middle Ages of course ;) rather than out of any thought >>of actual cleanliness. >>> >> >>Well yeah, everyone else hated nature coz it was out to kill them, nature is >>frost and snow and sunburn and disease. only people who live far away from >>nature like the thought of being close to nature.:) > >You know, there's still a lot of truth in that statement. I was leading a >group of children on a hike in the Smoky Mountains National Park. The kids >who were "afraid" of being Out In The Woods were the ones that lived in >Gatlinburg (the town^H^H^H^HTourist-Trap) that's right next to the park! True, but to assume (as the author in this case does) that no one in the Middle Ages ever voluntarily stopped to smell a flower, listen to birdsong, or enjoy a spring morning does take it a bit far :) Nature to a farmer can certainly be untrustworthy, uncomfortable and sometimes disastrous, but it can also be sweet and beautiful, and there are certainly medieval comments preserved indicating that quite ordinary people acknowledged both aspects. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 00:56:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j584u7Q7030580 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:56:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j584svU5020428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584svkH044663; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j584somC044604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:54:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-109-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.109]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j584smQl006380 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:54:48 +1000 Message-ID: <007801c56be6$0881c6a0$6ddbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c2.2a261736.2fd79913@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:53:37 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice > > In a message dated 6/7/2005 2:14:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? > The time is set to 1795. > How do you think the costumes are? > > > > Not bad. But they seem awfully....grey. Y'know, dull. But it's hard to tell > from just the trailer. > > I was struck at how many of the lines are EXACTLY the same as in the > miniseries that A&E and the BBC did. They must be lifted right from the pages of the > novel. > > BTW....that miniseries is WONDERFUL and very well costumed. The BBC miniseries followed _very_ closely to the text of the book, in some scenes it's almost like a book on tape. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 01:01:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5851kfU030596 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:01:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5850r5e021312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:00:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5850pZY048641; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:00:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5850lox048588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:00:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-219-109-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.219.109]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5850gOE029677 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:00:43 +1000 Message-ID: <008701c56be6$dbcca840$6ddbf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6DB6013D-D7A9-11D9-B2ED-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> <42A62EAB.3020302@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:59:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adele de Maisieres" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice > Althea Turner wrote: > > > The "fine eyes" of Miss Elizabeth Bennett are lost in the ethereal > > beauty of Kieara Knightly and I cannot comprehend anyone saying about > > her beauty "that they would sooner find her Mother a wit." Hello? > > That's Kieara Knightly you are calling un-lovely. > > Er, well, it's supposed to be an unfounded remark-- although I suspect > she's a bit brown and skinny for late 18th century tastes. > > -- > Adele de Maisieres Actually there's quite a few references in the book to the fact that Jane (the oldest) is the prettiest of the sisters and the rest are sortof standard and don't have anything in particular to make them stand out in a crowd. I think it's supposed to be accurate in that she's not a beauty, she's a bit pretty but doesn't have any sort of stand out beauty to really catch your eye. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 01:04:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5854IJA030604 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:04:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5853ZMl021552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5853XFw049866; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5853SDn049807 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP853B44PC8Y9P2I@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:03:20 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP8534DZPM8Y9SGB@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:03:07 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:04:42 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A67C6A.50302@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > People such as our beloved late-Victorian ancestors, who certainly > _wished_ to believe they were living in an age of progress, also > proceeded to look for evidence that people were smaller in the Middle > Ages, and of course found some -- while not finding, or sometimes > ignoring, any evidence that would indicate otherwise. This would also > explain why it always seems to be the same few pieces of evidence that > are trotted out to "explain" the supposed trend. That is an interesting point, one that I wasn't really aware of. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 01:13:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j585DrYj030626 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j585D75G022127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:13:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j585D5CM053890; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j585D1nM053831 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:13:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j585Cus03826 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:12:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:16:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <008701c56be6$dbcca840$6ddbf5dc@e9q5h8> Message-Id: <6EB7D3FE-D7DC-11D9-B2ED-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tuesday, June 7, 2005, at 09:59 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adele de Maisieres" >> Althea Turner wrote: >> >>> The "fine eyes" of Miss Elizabeth Bennett are lost in the ethereal >>> beauty of Kieara Knightly and I cannot comprehend anyone saying about >>> her beauty "that they would sooner find her Mother a wit." Hello? >>> That's Kieara Knightly you are calling un-lovely. >> >> Er, well, it's supposed to be an unfounded remark-- although I suspect >> she's a bit brown and skinny for late 18th century tastes. >> >> -- >> Adele de Maisieres > > Actually there's quite a few references in the book to the fact that > Jane > (the oldest) is the prettiest of the sisters and the rest are sortof > standard and don't have anything in particular to make them stand out > in a > crowd. I think it's supposed to be accurate in that she's not a beauty, > she's a bit pretty but doesn't have any sort of stand out beauty to > really > catch your eye. > Elizabeth > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole *smiles* Which is why I have a hard time believing Kiera Knightly in the role. She's far too pretty. > Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Stop Continental Drift! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 01:17:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j585HvTV030681 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j585HHfc022425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:17:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j585HHOf055781; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:17:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j585HE4c055704 for ; Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:17:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005060805170701400cp4use>; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:17:07 +0000 Message-ID: <008901c56be9$50f08860$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com><20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com><5.1.0.14.2.20050607233336.016009f0@127.0.0.1> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:17:07 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Soothing jobs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I used to like untangling yarn or embroidery floss. Now I weed my flower beds to get rid of stress. In the winter I crochet scarves... repetitive work that doesn't require a lot of thinking. I also like to redraw embroidery or sewing patterns. Typing books is my latest past-time. Ironing a soothing job... LOL! I leave that work to my husband. If ironing is soothing to anyone, they can iron my 30 ft. long curtains that we wash at Christmas and summer time. I'll make sure they are wadded up really good, and mail them to you! <<>> Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 03:49:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j587ntWh027733 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:49:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j587msXD033178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:48:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j587mkL7023672; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:48:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j587mgEN023609 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 01:48:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 67939 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2005 07:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2005 07:48:37 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050608084542.014e1a38@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 08:46:11 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice In-Reply-To: <6EB7D3FE-D7DC-11D9-B2ED-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> References: <008701c56be6$dbcca840$6ddbf5dc@e9q5h8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/920/Tue Jun 7 23:54:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/920/Tue Jun 7 23:54:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>> >>> >>>>The "fine eyes" of Miss Elizabeth Bennett are lost in the ethereal >>>>beauty of Kieara Knightly and I cannot comprehend anyone saying about >>>>her beauty "that they would sooner find her Mother a wit." Hello? >>>>That's Kieara Knightly you are calling un-lovely. >>> >>>Er, well, it's supposed to be an unfounded remark-- although I suspect >>>she's a bit brown and skinny for late 18th century tastes. >>> >>>-- >>>Adele de Maisieres >> >>Actually there's quite a few references in the book to the fact that Jane >>(the oldest) is the prettiest of the sisters and the rest are sortof >>standard and don't have anything in particular to make them stand out in a >>crowd. I think it's supposed to be accurate in that she's not a beauty, >>she's a bit pretty but doesn't have any sort of stand out beauty to really >>catch your eye. >>Elizabeth >>-------------------------------------------- >>Elizabeth Walpole > >*smiles* Which is why I have a hard time believing Kiera Knightly in the >role. She's far too pretty. That, of course, is a matter of opinion! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 05:46:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j589kfGJ025019 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:46:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j589jrHb042412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:45:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j589jo6M074708; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:45:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp13.wanadoo.fr (smtp13.wanadoo.fr [193.252.22.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j589jkqN074639 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:45:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from liara@wanadoo.fr) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf1307.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D5BDC7000086 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:45:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from wwinf1314 (wwinf1314 [172.22.144.58]) by mwinf1307.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D3FAA7000084 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:45:40 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20050608094540868.D3FAA7000084@mwinf1307.wanadoo.fr Message-ID: <17678983.1118223940861.JavaMail.www@wwinf1314> From: Rhianna To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-IP: [82.120.202.35] X-WUM-FROM: |~| X-WUM-TO: |~| X-WUM-REPLYTO: |~| Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:45:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/920/Tue Jun 7 23:54:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/920/Tue Jun 7 23:54:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How to dress an 1861 governess... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j589kfGJ025019 Status: RO I have a question for those of you who know more than me about Victorian trivia (that includes every last one of you, I guess ;))… I have to play the governess of a rich English family in 1861... and I am unfortunately deeply ignorant about that period. What is such a character suppose to wear ? For example, should I wear crinoline or is it reserved to the higher class ? Does an employee wear several dresses a day ? Are there colors more appropriate ( such as darker colors, black maybe ) ? Thank you everyone, Mathilde _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 07:38:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58BcBEY000591 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:38:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58Bb5G0062985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:37:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58Bb2ni020079; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58BavLR020001 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:36:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050608113646.QERP21916.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:36:46 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.153.64.32]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050608113646.KQCH16943.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:36:46 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.323 [267.6.6]); Wed, 08 Jun 2005 23:36:46 +1200 Message-ID: <00e801c56c1e$59c68bd0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:36:44 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Tight lacing was far less common than is popularly imagined. The most > common range of sizes for corsets produced in Great Britain was waist > sized 18-30 inches, which would have covered natural waist sizes from > about 19 to 35 inches. One of my favourite quotes can be found in Fashion and reality (reprinted by Dover as Victorian and Edwardian Fashion: a Photographic survey.) "A distinction should be made between actual and corset measurements, because stays as ordinarily worn do not meet in the back. Young girls, especially, derive intense satisfaction from proclaiming the diminuative size of their corset. Many purchase 18 and 19 inch stays, who must leave them open 2, 3 and 4 inches." E.M ward & Co. put out a booklet with that in it. And was apparently quoted in The Dress Reform Problem, Bradford, 1886. Valerie Steele discusses the various issues around tightlacing in a few books. Fashion and Eroticism is actually really good, more lieka series of essays dealing with what the corset meant to different groups and what we get to read about now can be distorted by choice of source etc. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.6 - Release Date: 8/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 07:53:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58BraPI000687 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:53:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58BqenK063933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:52:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58Bqd9O026575; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:52:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58BqZ8g026513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:52:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j58BmPTJ003509 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:48:25 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A6DC01.603@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:52:33 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths (just for fun...) References: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> <00e801c56c1e$59c68bd0$0301010a@michaela> In-Reply-To: <00e801c56c1e$59c68bd0$0301010a@michaela> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO michaela wrote: >Many purchase 18 and 19 inch stays, who must leave > them open 2, 3 and 4 inches." Heh. That's like buying a D size bra for a B size gal and stuffing it, and saying you're a "D". -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Before I die with a hammer in my hand, I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord, Get me a steam drill too!" -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 08:33:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58CX6uS001151 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:33:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58CVx51066722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:31:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CVuqB044448; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:31:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j58CVrPx044402 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:31:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLP3JQAM9JYYS for (sender ); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:31:10 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7/GxdnpOk68bL91agatwdaZdCBp6R+IYCQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUYMXYBC; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 05:30:40 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:27:33 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dress an 1861 governess... Message-ID: <20050608.072733.-7434051.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-13,33-34,36-44,46-64 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 22:11:1762584469 X-MAIL-INFO: 01875aef5a37bb0737bbbe9fbbbeee23d76702af2f0e67a747972ffba7de2e2ba73b834e87cb879b7ebe3fbb879f X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My understanding of the position of the governess in a Victorian household was one that straddled classifications in a rather uncomfortable way. The governess was generally a woman of good breeding who was 'economically disadvantaged' and hired to teach the children of a middling age in a wealthy household. In other words, she didn't deal with the very young children (nanny or nursery maid) or the teenage boys (off to public school) but taught the children from about age 6 or 7 thru 11 or 12 for boys and up thru 15 or 16 for girls (who typically didn't get shipped off to public school). The position of the governess was roughly equivalent to the housekeeper- a very high position- but she could be treated more as member of the family. That's why governesses tend to have affairs with married male employers or to end up marrying widowed employers. They are hired but not exactly servants..... As to what she would wear, she would be expected to dress well to reflect well on her employers but not too well as she was still technically a servant. She would probably wear a hoop skirt of modest dimensions and darkish somewhat conservative clothing.....of course for 1861, almost any fashion was relatively conservative! Her clothes might be fairly fashionable as she was setting the example for the young ladies of the house. She would probably wear one dress during the day while teaching and another in the evening for dinner (especially if she ate at the family's table). She would probably have a traveling dress so that she could accompany the children if they needed to go somewhere and she might have a somewhat fancier 'ball gown' so that she could chaperone the young girls at local festivities (holiday dances) although once the girls had formally 'come out' they would no longer be under the care of the governess. If the governess was a widow of good family, she would be expected to follow the conventions for a widow- if she was a young woman of good family who had yet to marry, she might wear a somewhat more lively and fashionable clothes because she might still make a good marriage. If she was an older spinster, she would probably just wear modest clothing but not necessarily black. Brown was considered very proper and serviceable. I'm sure there are other folks on the list who can give you more specifics. Karen Seamstrix On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:45:40 +0200 (CEST) Rhianna writes: > I have a question for those of you who know more than me about > Victorian trivia (that includes every last one of you, I guess > ;))… > > I have to play the governess of a rich English family in 1861... and > I am unfortunately deeply ignorant about that period. What is such a > character suppose to wear ? For example, should I wear crinoline or > is it reserved to the higher class ? Does an employee wear several > dresses a day ? Are there colors more appropriate ( such as darker > colors, black maybe ) ? > > Thank you everyone, > Mathilde > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 08:40:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58CeXUU001221 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:40:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58CdZtU067478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:39:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CdXS1048405; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:39:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CdTqr048028 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:39:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j58Ccmd02258.; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:38:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:38:48 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:38:40 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j58CdTqr048028 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, that's it really. I cut out several copies of the required shape, laid them in a stack on a non-absorbent surface and painted them with diluted white glue (Drea said "Elmer's glue" but as we don't have that brand in the UK I asked the list what it was and found an equivalent). When nearly dry it can be peeled off the surface. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> emeraldepona@yahoo.com 07/06/2005 19:34 >>> Info please :) !!!! Thank you, Chris G. Kate M Bunting wrote: When I wanted to make a new stomacher a few years ago, like you I couldn't find anything nearly stiff enough in the shops. Drea Leed told me (via this list ) how to make my own buckram by painting several thicknesses of canvas with dilute glue (the white kind used for sticking paper). I've made two stomachers in this way and it works very well. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 08:45:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58CjM50001284 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:45:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58CicEN067836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:44:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CibVd050785; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:44:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j58CiYt8050704 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:44:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 50868 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jun 2005 12:44:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=agkOX3YzEV+A6xrhIIm5af7v03F7KEsgoC92RC/0Os7vIaIyubIgIYu+qDUAG7n2YaLMVxzfR7tThZVz6ICfgj9Sb4rhaCrv+cPblllRw5uu96lsaGW5n98ueLWOYx0EJts58y6mloJItSK5TPsFXTEm5XHvyKXrdwdFUP5jPvw= ; Message-ID: <20050608124428.50866.qmail@web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 05:44:28 PDT Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:44:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO millinary buckram/ stiffener?? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Kate! Kate M Bunting wrote:Well, that's it really. I cut out several copies of the required shape, laid them in a stack on a non-absorbent surface and painted them with diluted white glue (Drea said "Elmer's glue" but as we don't have that brand in the UK I asked the list what it was and found an equivalent). When nearly dry it can be peeled off the surface. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> emeraldepona@yahoo.com 07/06/2005 19:34 >>> Info please :) !!!! Thank you, Chris G. Kate M Bunting wrote: When I wanted to make a new stomacher a few years ago, like you I couldn't find anything nearly stiff enough in the shops. Drea Leed told me (via this list ) how to make my own buckram by painting several thicknesses of canvas with dilute glue (the white kind used for sticking paper). I've made two stomachers in this way and it works very well. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 08:52:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58Cq9uI001320 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58CpUko068400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:51:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CpT5E054395; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:51:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CpQbD054331 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:51:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016B13C6D5 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:51:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A6E9D9.90505@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:51:37 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: historical TV series? References: <200506072126.j57LQaer072069@net.indra.com> <6.1.2.0.2.20050607230549.028c4ec0@pop.radiks.net> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050607230549.028c4ec0@pop.radiks.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > Dawn, > > I think you're seeing previews for "Into the West" which will be a 6 > installment series/miniseries this summer. It is produced by Steven > Spielberg. I'm looking forward to at least checking it out. > > Sandy Sandy, that's it! Thanks. I saw a poster with the leading man, and mistook his clothing for an earlier period. Oooh! It starts this Friday! http://alt.tnt.tv/itw/# Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 09:01:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58D1LhL001380 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:01:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58CxW0A069065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:59:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CxWsI058356; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:59:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58CxUqq058336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:59:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j58CxU2o076181 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:59:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j58CxU8d076180 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:59:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.214.253 ( [65.93.214.253]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 08:59:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1118235570.42a6ebb2d0cec@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 08:59:30 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.214.253 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1861 Governess X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In my research of the dress of the working class at that time, all my sources specifically stated that working women wore crinolines. As for the changing, I'm sorry but I can't help there :) I don't remember the source (it's somewhere in my collection, I can dig if you need), but a woman's research into gowns of the time stated the majority of dresses were solid colours, followed by thin stripes, then prints. Hope this helps, Laura -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 09:25:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58DPdwV001527 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:25:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58DOacS070840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:24:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58DOZuK071774; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58DOX3Y071681 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:24:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.117 ([204.127.197.117]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005060813242801300fuibke>; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:24:28 +0000 Received: from [67.183.235.116] by 204.127.197.117; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:24:27 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:24:27 +0000 Message-Id: <060820051324.3349.42A6F18B000B417400000D1522007340760809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/921/Wed Jun 8 02:51:44 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO IIRC Kiera is beautiful for "our" time. But, also IIRC, the beautiful in that time is blonde, blue eyes and oval face. Please feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong...it's not my period, just a fan of books about this period. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > On Tuesday, June 7, 2005, at 09:59 PM, Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Adele de Maisieres" > >> Althea Turner wrote: > >> > >>> The "fine eyes" of Miss Elizabeth Bennett are lost in the ethereal > >>> beauty of Kieara Knightly and I cannot comprehend anyone saying about > >>> her beauty "that they would sooner find her Mother a wit." Hello? > >>> That's Kieara Knightly you are calling un-lovely. > >> > >> Er, well, it's supposed to be an unfounded remark-- although I suspect > >> she's a bit brown and skinny for late 18th century tastes. > >> > >> -- > >> Adele de Maisieres > > > > Actually there's quite a few references in the book to the fact that > > Jane > > (the oldest) is the prettiest of the sisters and the rest are sortof > > standard and don't have anything in particular to make them stand out > > in a > > crowd. I think it's supposed to be accurate in that she's not a beauty, > > she's a bit pretty but doesn't have any sort of stand out beauty to > > really > > catch your eye. > > Elizabeth > > -------------------------------------------- > > Elizabeth Walpole > > *smiles* Which is why I have a hard time believing Kiera Knightly in > the role. She's far too pretty. > > > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > Stop Continental Drift! > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 10:18:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58EIx6R001801 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58EGZel075739 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:16:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58EGUBL003329; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:16:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58EGRXP003229 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so561170wri for ; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:16:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=IK1bvElWgbEAjz//RI4TjGWw8BXWaZwtXigofV3ttip3m8zVdsyl2moGMCjr8rxnhyfuYmYlztVrTAHrmrdRL0Ux/Rgw3T/MurPMx03YfVFjDF0/hleojKF9Rwiu5NdssB70QglHOQbUvxmPGu6OgvI7dyTf0t0mqikk+ihNfNI= Received: by 10.54.34.16 with SMTP id h16mr4773349wrh; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.21.73 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:16:20 -0500 From: Onaree Berard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050607101917.16A2637CF6@sitemail.everyone.net> <42A61621.2090705@paradise.net.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j58EGRXP003229 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Costuming myths (just for fun...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that tight lacing then was like 6 inch heels now. Many woman occasionally do (such as going out on a special occasion or such) but very few is it an everyday fashion. Onaree On 6/7/05, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > > Tight lacing was far less common than is popularly imagined. The most > common range of sizes for corsets produced in Great Britain was waist > sized 18-30 inches, which would have covered natural waist sizes from > about 19 to 35 inches. > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > > ----------------------------- > Quot homines, tot sententiae. > ----------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 10:42:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58Eg3t7001905 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58EepAF078553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:40:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58EennP021115; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58EdIAB019487 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j58EdBw20569 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:39:11 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:42:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Althea Turner To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050608084542.014e1a38@127.0.0.1> Message-Id: <8939C7E3-D82B-11D9-B2ED-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday, June 8, 2005, at 12:46 AM, Suzi Clarke wrote: >> >> *smiles* Which is why I have a hard time believing Kiera Knightly in >> the role. She's far too pretty. > > That, of course, is a matter of opinion! > > Suzi > > Ok, I must not be articulating myself well enough. Lemme try one last time. Kiera Knightly is *generally* considered a pretty girl using *today's* aesthetic criteria. Of course, that is a matter of opinion. While one may not think she has aesthetic value, one cannot deny that "in the mainstream" she has been assigned such value in today's world. Her success as an actress has relied more on her looks than her acting ability. *cough* Miss Elizabeth Bennett was fine enough looking, but *generally* not acknowledged as a "beauty." That role fell upon her older sister, Jane. Yes, the ideal was blonde, peaches and cream, etc, and that was Jane. At one point in conversation, Elizabeth even told Jane that since Jane had all the beauty on the family, it fell on her to marry well and raise the fortunes of all. So, it *my opinion* that Miss Knightly was a poor choice in casting, but one rooted chiefly in modern Hollywood sense and sensibility, and not one vaguely true to the Jane Austen book. I have been utterly and thoroughly (and quite happily) spoiled by the BBC version. Were I new to the various film versions, and not at all familiar with Austen's books, the new version probably wouldn't bother me so much. I usually accept movies for what they are; someone else's version of truth through the lens of fantasy. And a really good excuse for eating incredibly over-priced and extremely bad for you popcorn. :D YMMV Althea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 10:50:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58EoY07001972 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:50:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58EnKrX079704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:49:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58EnJeU027883; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:49:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58EnFZ5027838 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:49:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28075 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:49:14 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:49:08 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out Thread-Index: AcVsJyMcAMJYfJeDTTCYrEKN9f//GAAEW04Q From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j58EnFZ5027838 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the Simplicity website for their Fall Preview patterns is a new Martha McCain Civil War era dress pattern. It is #4510 and appears to be a more formal "visiting gown." It appears to be deep violet(on my screen), possibly in imitation of the then newly popular aniline dyes. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 11:13:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58FD8vL002173 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:13:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58FBuiM082699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:11:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58FBsDN045629; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:11:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58FBQiZ045289 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:11:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r2.2.) id 6.144.46dc5a4d (3699) for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:11:17 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <144.46dc5a4d.2fd86495@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:11:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j58FD8vL002173 Status: RO In a message dated 6/7/2005 10:34:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyadele@paradise.net.nz writes: >You're not thinking of the Dashwoods in Sense and Sensibility, are you? >They're definitely more in the area of genteel poverty, with only £500 >per annum to support three adults and a little girl. > > >But that is where they END UP after the father [who had money] dies. I think >they might have saved some things from when they had money....not just >suddenly gone poor in every respect. > > They don't have a heck of a lot beyond personal possessions, and that's all they're really entitled to. You are of course correct. Clothes are personal possessions, no?....and we're talking the film's costumes here, are we not? I don't see that they take much else to the cottage with them. Indeed, each character has a "closet". You see the same gowns over and over, with different hats and things. In fact I thought Mrs. Dashwood should have had more changes. But the girls stick with one evening gown and about 5 or 6 day gowns....most quite simple but of lovely fabrics. I remember one Emma Thomson wears that is plain a snuff but a beautiful plaid silk. She wears it [among other scenes] when she tells Mr. Farris he has be offered a post as curate....I think. I'm remembering these things from seeing the film a while ago. It is true the whole film has a clean, fresh look. Now the film of "Persuasion" is different. Things are worn and the men have 5 o'clock shadows and such. I did like those clothes a lot too. But not as crisp and clean a S&S. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 11:19:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58FJJ5O002226 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:19:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58FIC87083350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:18:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58FI7G0050525; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:18:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58FI4jv050465 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:18:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.47]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BE20126285D for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:18:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001a01c56c3d$50884580$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <10525578.1118101240812.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net><002201c56b37$a5c128c0$32dbf5dc@e9q5h8><20050607121238.xdo7jtyjfe0o08w4@www.goldsword.com> Subject: Re: nature (waws Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:18:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, We have an old song in Denmark origin from 15th century and it phraises the first day of spring, when the valley gets warm and wonderfull after the long winter. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:51 AM Subject: Re: nature (waws Re: [h-cost] Re: not washing hair) > At 12:12 PM -0500 6/7/05, Susan B. Farmer wrote: >>Quoting Elizabeth Walpole : >> >>> There is one scene where she actually removes all her >>>clothes >>>and takes a dip in a local pond, but it's presented as something she does >>>because she is a dreamy, poetic sort of person who loves nature (unlike >>>everyone else in the Middle Ages of course ;) rather than out of any >>>thought >>>of actual cleanliness. >>>> >>> >>>Well yeah, everyone else hated nature coz it was out to kill them, nature >>>is >>>frost and snow and sunburn and disease. only people who live far away >>>from >>>nature like the thought of being close to nature.:) >> >>You know, there's still a lot of truth in that statement. I was leading a >>group of children on a hike in the Smoky Mountains National Park. The >>kids >>who were "afraid" of being Out In The Woods were the ones that lived in >>Gatlinburg (the town^H^H^H^HTourist-Trap) that's right next to the park! > > True, but to assume (as the author in this case does) that no one in the > Middle Ages ever voluntarily stopped to smell a flower, listen to > birdsong, or enjoy a spring morning does take it a bit far :) Nature to a > farmer can certainly be untrustworthy, uncomfortable and sometimes > disastrous, but it can also be sweet and beautiful, and there are > certainly medieval comments preserved indicating that quite ordinary > people acknowledged both aspects. > -- > ____________________________________________________________ > > O Chris Laning - Davis, California > + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 11:27:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58FRulU002262 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:27:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58FR05D084282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:27:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58FQrtW057532; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:26:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58FQjbd057386 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:26:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.47]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 756C826288B for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:26:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006f01c56c3e$811a3e00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1><001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A61C36.5040500@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:26:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi No i did mean the Bennets and i think that they were spoiled daughters and had many fashionable dresses. And then i ment that they were portrayed richer than the novel. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adele de Maisieres" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Strange, i think i replyed to your mail, but it didnt get trough, so i >> try once more: >> >> I think that excactly this point, that the mature ladies in the film >> wears 1780ies styles, makes it more realistic. >> Remember that fashion changed very slowly in the small country towns, and >> didnt the previous film, wich i love and treassure, make the Bennet >> family richer than it is in the novel? > > > If you mean the 1996 BBC TV production, then no, I don't think so. The > Bennets are comfortable enough to have one manservant and a housekeeper, > keep a nice house, and be reasonably well dressed, but poor enough that > their horses have to double duty on the farm and drawing their carriage, > they don't spend any time in town, and there's no real money to provide a > dowry for any of the girls. There's also a hint in that they economise by > not heating every room in winter. I think that about jives with the book. > > You're not thinking of the Dashwoods in Sense and Sensibility, are you? > They're definitely more in the area of genteel poverty, with only £500 per > annum to support three adults and a little girl. > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > > ----------------------------- > Quot homines, tot sententiae. > ----------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 14:50:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58IoNCc003763 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:50:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58InLXm021020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:49:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58InDV1037393; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58In8cV037291 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:49:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.47]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 48A475EE05A for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:49:06 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c56c5a$d74b9b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:49:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th century stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I got a note from Ian again. Unfortunately he was not allowed to take any photos of the stays found in the brick wall, but he has told me that they were very early 1625-45 and very similar to the Manchester red stays. Ian also told me that the stays he examined was better laced with cross lacing in stead of cable lacing. They were off the shoulders and would suit the high waisted look of the 1620's 40's. They are very straight and not at all like the shapely cone of the 18th. century. Ian told me that the museum in Manchester is online, and that there are pictures of the red stays, but i tryed to find them, but did not succes in seing any pictures at all. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 15:11:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58JBkfM003881 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:11:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58JAjOb023520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:10:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JAiN6054913; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:10:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:TdRdt4vyPA0r42XEIXlTmAfe0pRMvKFj@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JAfEa054869 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:10:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j58JAfYY004141 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:10:41 -0400 Received: from dci012034013201.discovery.com ([12.34.13.201]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:10:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <55351.12.34.13.201.1118257841.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <001101c56c5a$d74b9b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001101c56c5a$d74b9b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:10:41 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 17th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone do 1610? E-mail me off list if you prefer. I don't have any specific questions at the moment, but would like to hear impressions, opinions, indiosyncrasies of the fashion of the time, particularly Paris. :-) Thanks! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 15:18:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58JIXbn003930 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58JHAMi024373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JGKHD059482; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (209-142-2-36.stk.inreach.net [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j58JFnU8059086 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:16:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 26738 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2005 19:40:19 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO webmail.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:40:19 -0700 Received: from 162.119.64.110 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by webmail.inreach.com with HTTP; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <21935.162.119.64.110.1118258149.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <001101c56c5a$d74b9b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001101c56c5a$d74b9b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century stays From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi, > I got a note from Ian again. Unfortunately he was not allowed to take any > photos of the stays found in the brick wall, but he has told me that they > were very early 1625-45 and very similar to the Manchester red stays. > Ian also told me that the stays he examined was better laced with cross > lacing in stead of cable lacing. They were off the shoulders and would > suit > the high waisted look of the 1620's 40's. They are very straight and not > at > all like the shapely cone of the 18th. century. > Ian told me that the museum in Manchester is online, and that there are > pictures of the red stays, but i tryed to find them, but did not succes in > seing any pictures at all. Which museum is it in? Maybe the Gallery of Costume? There seems to be a problem with that website. Maybe it was online before but they are having technical difficulties now? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 15:21:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58JLevs003948 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:21:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58JKtp0025000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:20:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JKctm063216; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:20:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j58JKJMx062905 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:20:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 52465 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2005 19:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2005 19:20:10 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050608201549.014e1b78@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 20:18:08 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century stays In-Reply-To: <001101c56c5a$d74b9b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:49 08/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >I got a note from Ian again. Unfortunately he was not allowed to take any >photos of the stays found in the brick wall, but he has told me that they >were very early 1625-45 and very similar to the Manchester red stays. >Ian also told me that the stays he examined was better laced with cross >lacing in stead of cable lacing. They were off the shoulders and would >suit the high waisted look of the 1620's 40's. They are very straight and >not at all like the shapely cone of the 18th. century. >Ian told me that the museum in Manchester is online, and that there are >pictures of the red stays, but i tryed to find them, but did not succes in >seing any pictures at all. > >Bjarne Thanks so much for the information Bjarne. That is interesting as I have the Manchester stays dated at 1700. Maybe we are not talking about the same stays. I will see if I can find my flyer from Ian, and write to him myself. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 15:22:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58JMf2v003955 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:22:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58JLuJE025108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JLkpv064162; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JLD1n063650 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so100973wri for ; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:21:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:mime-version:message-id:date:content-type:x-mailer:from:references:to:subject:x-fid:content-transfer-encoding:x-priority; b=qD6cwU4027aYrk+agvkCaxkTNRmiWlr2z9kIrjDqt/LFDUIo5bsQHU3aT6ap5ueUpkUDdmkiW/LrkVi/ZqMhFItuTQkWd9L95esWTsJUvurxkp0VtIeAiy4uZKdfUGaFxqTKaMhs7wVpGuGtzcBkVfufP0uwCbUP9mOhb/L0EP4= Received: by 10.54.21.22 with SMTP id 22mr4961023wru; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:20:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MOM1 ([166.102.108.61]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 13sm2724940wrl.2005.06.08.12.20.17; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:20:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <42A74326.000012.03668@MOM1> Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:12:38 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: IncrediMail (3501787) From: "Jacqueline Johnson" References: <20050608.072733.-7434051.0.penhalion@juno.com> To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dress an 1861 governess... X-FID: PLAINTXT-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If I could suggest an excellent book titled "The Unnatural History of the Nanny" by Jonathan Gathorne-Hardy. It covers governesses and the like in enough detail to give you some help. Bice -------Original Message------- My understanding of the position of the governess in a Victorian household was one that straddled classifications in a rather uncomfortable way. The governess was generally a woman of good breeding who was 'economically disadvantaged' _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 15:25:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58JP7bt003964 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:25:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58JONtU025547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:24:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JOIu7066345; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:24:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58JNo7I065959 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:24:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32f2f.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.47]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 6EB125EE0A0 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:23:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001001c56c5f$b1b2b8a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001101c56c5a$d74b9b40$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <21935.162.119.64.110.1118258149.squirrel@webmail.inreach.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century stays Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:24:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thanks, yes i think there must be a problem. It is just that i am dying to se that red pair of stays, i dont recall i have seen these before. Is it in one of the costume patterns books? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th century stays > >> Hi, >> I got a note from Ian again. Unfortunately he was not allowed to take any >> photos of the stays found in the brick wall, but he has told me that they >> were very early 1625-45 and very similar to the Manchester red stays. >> Ian also told me that the stays he examined was better laced with cross >> lacing in stead of cable lacing. They were off the shoulders and would >> suit >> the high waisted look of the 1620's 40's. They are very straight and not >> at >> all like the shapely cone of the 18th. century. >> Ian told me that the museum in Manchester is online, and that there are >> pictures of the red stays, but i tryed to find them, but did not succes >> in >> seing any pictures at all. > > Which museum is it in? Maybe the Gallery of Costume? There seems to be a > problem with that website. Maybe it was online before but they are having > technical difficulties now? > > Diana > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 15:45:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58JjpMu004110 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:45:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58Jj4E2027978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:45:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58Jj2Jt083246; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:45:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from captain.concentric.com (captain.concentric.com [207.155.252.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58Jiwwj083191 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:44:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by captain.concentric.com id PAA04788; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:44:58 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506081944.PAA04788@captain.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:44:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506072253.j57MrPxI038795@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j58Jiwwj083191 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Velcro, and pointy shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > >>Is there a way to get that junk out of velcro (tm)? The one side attracts > >>*everything* > > > >Clothilde used to sell a little wire brush dingus for just this > >purpose. If you have carding combs, it's much the same, but > >smaller. It's also like the little wire brush for suede-sole dance shoes. > **or a steel wire brush about the size of a toothbrush. > > >I saw a man in a pair a couple of weeks ago wearing a pair where the toe > >extended about 3-4 inches out, narrowing and curving slight up. > >He was the manager of a shoe store, so this must be a hot new trend. > > I believe winkle-pickers are making a bit of a comeback.... > > Marc **Is this like cockroach killers? Don't know what a winkle is, but pointy shoes make it easier to get into corners ;-) Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 18:42:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58MgECt005494 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:42:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58Mf8qK048633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58Mf2t1025688; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58Meu85025633 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP961J929S95PDG1@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:40:53 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP961J4DIE8Y9S6M@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:40:52 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:42:17 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice In-reply-to: <060820051324.3349.42A6F18B000B417400000D1522007340760809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A77449.8060202@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <060820051324.3349.42A6F18B000B417400000D1522007340760809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: >IIRC Kiera is beautiful for "our" time. But, also IIRC, the beautiful in that time is blonde, blue eyes and oval face. > >Please feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong...it's not my period, just a fan of books about this period. > > > Not necessarily blonde or blue-eyed I don't think, but fair with rosy cheeks, slim or plump but not skinny. Jane Austin describes one of the Bennet sisters (flatteringly) as a stout, well grown girl, while Anne de Burgh is "thin and insignificant". -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 18:46:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58MkXIl005508 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:46:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58Mj91k049029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:45:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58Mj8rA028479; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:45:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58MixX2028361 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:45:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP966K7LDC8Y8835@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:44:56 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP966JU9ZA8YA1O0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:44:55 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:46:20 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-reply-to: <006f01c56c3e$811a3e00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A7753C.2010301@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> <001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A61C36.5040500@paradise.net.nz> <006f01c56c3e$811a3e00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > No i did mean the Bennets and i think that they were spoiled daughters > and had many fashionable dresses. And then i ment that they were > portrayed richer than the novel. > >> If you mean the 1996 BBC TV production, then no, I don't think so. >> The Bennets are comfortable enough to have one manservant and a >> housekeeper, keep a nice house, and be reasonably well dressed, but >> poor enough that their horses have to double duty on the farm and >> drawing their carriage, they don't spend any time in town, and >> there's no real money to provide a dowry for any of the girls. >> There's also a hint in that they economise by not heating every room >> in winter. I think that about jives with the book. > Well, the bits I'm referring to _are_ in the book (other than the heating one). And I don't recall that the girls have especially many clothes in the BBC series. Their day dresses certainly make multiple appearances. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 19:22:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58NM7kV005603 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:22:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58NLHsu052021 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58NLFwd051389; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58NLAZ2051296 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:21:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from bella (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 052F1E0001CD for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:21:04 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <01b701c56c80$e1d9fae0$0200a8c0@bella> From: "Linda Walton" To: "Historical Costume" References: <060820051324.3349.42A6F18B000B417400000D1522007340760809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <42A77449.8060202@paradise.net.nz> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:22:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Queen Elizabeth I Series X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This morning a new B.B.C. (U.K.) series was trailered on "Breakfast" television. It is to be a new dramatized biography of Queen Elizabeth I. There was a short item about the filming of her coronation, and the series won't be ready to show until early next year. They described it as a really big production, to be filmed over three months, no expense spared - and the costumes do most of the story-telling. Cast members mentioned were:- Queen Elizabeth - Anne Marie Duff Kat Ashley - Tara Fitzgerald Lettice Knowles - Sienna Guillory Duke of Norfolk - Kevin McKidd Earl of Sussex - Dexter Fletcher and about 1600 extras. Although what I saw of the coronation looked most impressive to me, unfortunately I know nothing about the period, so my opinion is worth nothing to you. I'll just trust the BBC and hope for the best. At least it will be something to look forward to in the dreary days of January/February. Best wishes, Linda Walton, (High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 19:44:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j58NiDFW005680 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:44:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j58NhFfN054242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:43:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j58NhDtO064185; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:43:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.138]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j58Nh7rw064101 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:43:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 71040 invoked from network); 8 Jun 2005 23:43:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Jun 2005 23:43:01 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050609003411.014e1d20@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 00:40:54 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Queen Elizabeth I Series In-Reply-To: <01b701c56c80$e1d9fae0$0200a8c0@bella> References: <060820051324.3349.42A6F18B000B417400000D1522007340760809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <42A77449.8060202@paradise.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 00:22 09/06/2005 +0100, you wrote: >This morning a new B.B.C. (U.K.) series was trailered on "Breakfast" >television. It is to be a new dramatized biography of Queen Elizabeth I. > >There was a short item about the filming of her coronation, and the series >won't be ready to show until early next year. They described it as a really >big production, to be filmed over three months, no expense spared - and the >costumes do most of the story-telling. > >Cast members mentioned were:- >Queen Elizabeth - Anne Marie Duff >Kat Ashley - Tara Fitzgerald >Lettice Knowles - Sienna Guillory >Duke of Norfolk - Kevin McKidd >Earl of Sussex - Dexter Fletcher >and about 1600 extras. > >Although what I saw of the coronation looked most impressive to me, >unfortunately I know nothing about the period, so my opinion is worth >nothing to you. I'll just trust the BBC and hope for the best. At least it >will be something to look forward to in the dreary days of January/February. This is what I was asked to work on earlier in the year. I made some ruffs for background characters, and delivered them to Angels, who were making the costumes. The production manager showed me a few of the costumes in the workroom, although not close up. There was at least one corset on a stand, probably taken from Hunnisett, as it looked very, very like. Also a few heavy brocade gowns. The fabrics looked pretty good, but I would not say they were authentic, exactly. Although the ruffs were not made in an authentic manner, on camera they will look good, and I guess the clothes should do too. I did meet the designer, for a second or two, but have no idea of her name! At the same time one of the independent channels if filming an older Queen Elizabeth, starring Helen Mirren. There was a photo in this week's "Radio Times". A very interesting garment was being worn - no further comments till I have seen more than one picture!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 20:23:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j590NIT0005828 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:23:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j590JncR057012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:19:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j590Jm9N083386; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j590JhUE083349 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:19:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j590JhG2000997 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:19:43 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.80.30] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j590JWhj361156 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:19:42 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050608170652.03499708@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:08:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hose In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050607082508.02a7b160@mail.alltel.net> References: <200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com> <200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Now the question is: What does Frick mean by the use of the term >"jersey" and what is the characteristics of the cloth that make it >"stretchable"? To most of us this would imply a knit textile, but I cannot >find supporting documentation (though we do know that knitted stockings >were made in England by the time of Elizabeth I). Perhaps some variation >on a twill is intended... I made a pair of waist-high footed hose for someone using thin loosely-woven wool cut on the bias. My only guess is that "jersey" refers to cloth woven in Jersey, not to a knit. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 21:06:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5916XIn006030 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:06:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5915ZlF061340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:05:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5915WiQ007242; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:05:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5915R7D007189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:05:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-218-58-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.218.58]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5915OSq024015 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:05:26 +1000 Message-ID: <001001c56c8f$2786dc80$3adaf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1><001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711><42A61C36.5040500@paradise.net.nz><006f01c56c3e$811a3e00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A7753C.2010301@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:04:10 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adele de Maisieres" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > No i did mean the Bennets and i think that they were spoiled daughters > > and had many fashionable dresses. And then i ment that they were > > portrayed richer than the novel. > > > >> If you mean the 1996 BBC TV production, then no, I don't think so. > >> The Bennets are comfortable enough to have one manservant and a > >> housekeeper, keep a nice house, and be reasonably well dressed, but > >> poor enough that their horses have to double duty on the farm and > >> drawing their carriage, they don't spend any time in town, and > >> there's no real money to provide a dowry for any of the girls. > >> There's also a hint in that they economise by not heating every room > >> in winter. I think that about jives with the book. > > > > Well, the bits I'm referring to _are_ in the book (other than the > heating one). And I don't recall that the girls have especially many > clothes in the BBC series. Their day dresses certainly make multiple > appearances. > > -- > Adele de Maisieres I think they are quite well off, they obviously aren't really rich but Mr. Bennet's estate provides them with enough money to afford quite a few luxuries, IIRC there's a suggestion in the book that Mrs Bennett is quite good at spending her husband's money and the only thing that keeps them within their budget is the fact that Mr Bennett enjoys the quiet country life and doesn't feel the need to go to London or hold balls etc. When Mr. Bennett dies they won't have much money but until then they have the money to hold an occasional dinner party (though it doesn't happen often because Mr. Bennett doesn't like company) and buy a new frock (or a bonnet) every so often. There is a comment made after Lydia's wedding that giving her £100 a year would leave him scarcely £10 a year worse off once he takes into account what she spends. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 21:27:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j591RNoG006254 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:27:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j591QdEI063487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j591QckH018418; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:26:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j591QXuv018384 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:26:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LP9BSW6VFK8Y9P2I@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:26:30 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LP9BSVPZ068Y5TV8@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:26:29 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:27:54 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice In-reply-to: <001001c56c8f$2786dc80$3adaf5dc@e9q5h8> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A79B1A.5050705@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050607191813.014e1328@127.0.0.1> <001501c56ba1$07be5cf0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A61C36.5040500@paradise.net.nz> <006f01c56c3e$811a3e00$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42A7753C.2010301@paradise.net.nz> <001001c56c8f$2786dc80$3adaf5dc@e9q5h8> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: > >I think they are quite well off, they obviously aren't really rich but Mr. >Bennet's estate provides them with enough money to afford quite a few >luxuries... > Quite-- the Bennets' financial worries come from the fact that Mr. Bennet's estate is entailed on his cousin, Collins-- not from a want of money for day-to-day living. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 21:27:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j591RVnb006257 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j591Qo9b063501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:26:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j591Qn9q018521; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:26:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc1-s17.bay6.hotmail.com (omc1-s17.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.248.219]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j591Qk9U018461 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:26:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.92]) by omc1-s17.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:26:41 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:26:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV20.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 01:26:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com><20050607161636.b07a8cn3lvzs44c4@www.goldsword.com><5.1.0.14.2.20050607233336.016009f0@127.0.0.1> <008901c56be9$50f08860$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Soothing jobs Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:21:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2005 01:26:41.0506 (UTC) FILETIME=[4A279420:01C56C92] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Ironing a soothing job... LOL! I leave that work to my husband. If > ironing is soothing to anyone, they can iron my 30 ft. long curtains that > we wash at Christmas and summer time. I'll make sure they are wadded up > really good, and mail them to you! <<>> Well, if they have folds at the top, then forget it. But if they're the flat kind, maybe with loops or a sleeve, then I'd happily iron them! I love ironing... just as long as there's no fiddly bits... I HATE ironing shirts. Especially the ones with darts :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 21:35:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j591Z07P006305 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:35:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j591YMiV064407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:34:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j591YLRP022159; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:34:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j591YIdf022097 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:34:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc15.attbi.com[204.127.197.125]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005060901341301400jk2kbe>; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:34:13 +0000 Received: from [67.183.90.6] by 204.127.197.111; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 01:34:12 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 01:34:12 +0000 Message-Id: <060920050134.11133.42A79C94000B048E00002B7D22058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I think you've got the 'perfect woman' description right. I would only add is that the shape of the face was an item as well. Oval, I think, was the preferred shape? As far as hair color, I'm not sure.. Bright red hair was not known to be a trait for beauty at this time, right? More towards the 'classical' hairdos (as they thought of it at that time) and that should be blonde or at least fair haired? Learning more is such fun!!! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: > > >IIRC Kiera is beautiful for "our" time. But, also IIRC, the beautiful in that > time is blonde, blue eyes and oval face. > > > >Please feel free to correct me if I've got this wrong...it's not my period, > just a fan of books about this period. > > > > > > > Not necessarily blonde or blue-eyed I don't think, but fair with rosy > cheeks, slim or plump but not skinny. > > Jane Austin describes one of the Bennet sisters (flatteringly) as a > stout, well grown girl, while Anne de Burgh is "thin and insignificant". > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > > ----------------------------- > Quot homines, tot sententiae. > ----------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 22:14:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j592Evns006480 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:14:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j592E75g067290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592E1NJ041615; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592DwWi041563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:13:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j593YOhk031949 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:34:25 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:13:50 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <060920050134.11133.42A79C94000B048E00002B7D22058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <060920050134.11133.42A79C94000B048E00002B7D22058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506082213.51013.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 08 June 2005 9:34 pm, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: > Yes, I think you've got the 'perfect woman' description right. I would > only add is that the shape of the face was an item as well. Oval, I think, > was the preferred shape? As far as hair color, I'm not sure.. Bright red > hair was not known to be a trait for beauty at this time, right? More > towards the 'classical' hairdos (as they thought of it at that time) and > that should be blonde or at least fair haired? I suppose that depends on what you mean by "bright red." You're probably right that copper-colored hair or reddish brown wasn't much valued. On the other hand, I remember seeing tons of Dutch 15th c painting with strawberry blonde Madonnas with fine, long, wavy hair. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 22:29:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j592T4Os006569 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:29:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j592SKhn068132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:28:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592SJVV048753; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:28:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592SHu2048704 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:28:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050609022812014002g7nje>; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:28:12 +0000 Received: from [67.183.90.6] by 204.127.197.119; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 02:28:11 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 02:28:11 +0000 Message-Id: <060920050228.25550.42A7A93B00073526000063CE22007614380809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, the bright copper and reddish brown are what I was referring to. I would not call strawberry blonde a bright red... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > On Wednesday 08 June 2005 9:34 pm, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: > > Yes, I think you've got the 'perfect woman' description right. I would > > only add is that the shape of the face was an item as well. Oval, I think, > > was the preferred shape? As far as hair color, I'm not sure.. Bright red > > hair was not known to be a trait for beauty at this time, right? More > > towards the 'classical' hairdos (as they thought of it at that time) and > > that should be blonde or at least fair haired? > > I suppose that depends on what you mean by "bright red." You're probably > right that copper-colored hair or reddish brown wasn't much valued. On the > other hand, I remember seeing tons of Dutch 15th c painting with strawberry > blonde Madonnas with fine, long, wavy hair. > > > -- > Cathy Raymond > > "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by > entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going > to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 22:32:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j592WlG0006598 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:32:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j592W1XM068393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592W1Eq050675; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592VxgO050658 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j592W6Ns022685 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:32:06 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.80.30] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j592VsXN065248 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:31:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050608191157.0261a630@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:12:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costuming myths - pointy shoes In-Reply-To: <42A5B199.5010605@reddawn.net> References: <20050601191157.70635.qmail@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <429E0C48.4070901@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Hey, those are coming back into style. I saw a woman in dressy heels this >weekend, with extended points on the front of the shoe. The toe was >obviously designed to be long and thin, it wasn't just a narrow shoe she >had squeezed into. Um, these have been around so long that they're showing up in thrift stores already. as in, they're a few seasons old. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 8 22:47:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j592lle7006643 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j592l34O069945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:47:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592l2u5059061; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:47:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j592kwov058986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:47:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5947Pgc032571 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:07:26 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:46:52 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <060920050228.25550.42A7A93B00073526000063CE22007614380809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <060920050228.25550.42A7A93B00073526000063CE22007614380809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506082246.52935.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 08 June 2005 10:28 pm, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net wrote: > Yes, the bright copper and reddish brown are what I was referring to. > I would not call strawberry blonde a bright red... I would, but clearly I'm the one out of step here, judging by those strawberry blonde Madonnas.... :-) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 00:35:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j594ZXCe007135 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:35:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j594YMGK080163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j594YIDR013159; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j594YEQ7013125 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:34:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A82215D8A for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tuxedo/tails pattern needed Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:34:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcVlPxkyLbIdiUc6Re29frTWx6BrYQHbQjcg In-Reply-To: <49230.165.236.184.195.1117474964.squirrel@165.236.184.195> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-Id: <20050609043414.1A82215D8A@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I need to find a pattern for a formal tuxedo jacket, the kind with tails, preferably sized small (or alterable) to fit my sister, bust 34.5", waist 29", hips 35" or thereabouts. I need to make her a "formal flannel" and can't resist the idea of it being VERY formal. But I cannot seem to find anyone who sells a tux pattern. Anyone have any ideas? -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 01:34:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j595YATt007507 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:34:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j595XTuQ084375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j595XQa8039367; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:33:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j595XNdM039341 for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:33:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j595XM3H019566 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:33:22 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050608223305.026aa5e8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 22:33:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tuxedo/tails pattern needed In-Reply-To: <20050609043414.1A82215D8A@mail03.powweb.com> References: <49230.165.236.184.195.1117474964.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I need to find a pattern for a formal tuxedo jacket, the kind with tails, >preferably sized small (or alterable) to fit my sister, bust 34.5", waist >29", hips 35" or thereabouts. I need to make her a "formal flannel" and >can't resist the idea of it being VERY formal. But I cannot seem to find >anyone who sells a tux pattern. Anyone have any ideas? Not even Vogue? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 04:05:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5985i2B009585 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:05:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5984po7094407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5984kI4003876; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:04:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5984hZs003811 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:04:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j5984Vd23910.; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:04:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 09:04:31 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 09:04:22 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Velcro, and pointy shoes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5984hZs003811 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A winkle is a shellfish, traditionally bought cooked at the seaside and pulled out of their shells with a pin. Pointy shoes were called winkle-pickers in the late 1950s-early 60s. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> jtknits@jtknits.cts.com 08/06/2005 20:44 >>> wrote: >> I believe winkle-pickers are making a bit of a comeback.... >> >> Marc >**Is this like cockroach killers? Don't know what a winkle is, but pointy shoes make it >easier to get into corners ;-) >Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 04:11:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j598BPNC010938 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:11:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j598AcPc094628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:10:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j598AaSX006240; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:10:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j598AP5E006121 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:10:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j598AKd24391.; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:10:20 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 09:10:20 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 09:10:04 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j598AP5E006121 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But the 19th century isn't the 15th! Certainly in 18th-19th century literature "red-haired" seems to be intended as synonymous with "plain". Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> cathy@thyrsus.com 09/06/2005 03:13 >>> >I suppose that depends on what you mean by "bright red." You're probably >right that copper-colored hair or reddish brown wasn't much valued. On the >other hand, I remember seeing tons of Dutch 15th c painting with strawberry >blonde Madonnas with fine, long, wavy hair. -- ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 06:05:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59A5bAO008256 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:05:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59A4bYj004665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:04:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59A4U09054984; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:04:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59A4Rmx054968 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:04:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j59A4OZ8010649 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 05:04:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050609034959.00b737b8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:11:51 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fabric for sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I am in the process of listing a bunch of fabric I have for sale on these two Yahoo groups. The fabrics are silks, wools, and two unusual velvets. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/swapsell/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/costumetrader/ If you aren't already a member of swapsell, go ahead and sign up, just be sure to mention the fact that you are a member of H-costume since the group is limited to members of this list only. If you are interested but aren't on the list, please feel free to email me (dannw@mn.rr.com) with inquiries. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 06:47:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59Alfoc010054 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:47:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59Akuel008030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:46:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59AktLL071815; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:46:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59AkpN7071736 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.96.28ffd0b2 (4328) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:46:40 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <96.28ffd0b2.2fd97810@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:46:40 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tuxedo/tails pattern needed To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/9/2005 12:37:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, megan@benchite.com writes: I need to find a pattern for a formal tuxedo jacket, the kind with tails, preferably sized small (or alterable) to fit my sister, bust 34.5", waist 29", hips 35" or thereabouts. I need to make her a "formal flannel" and Burda used to sell a tuxedo pattern, but a tailcoat is something else. can't resist the idea of it being VERY formal. But I cannot seem to find anyone who sells a tux pattern. Anyone have any ideas? -Megan A tuxedo and tails are two different things. Burda used to have a tuxedo pattern. However, for a tail coat, check out Jean Hardy equestrian patterns--the shadbelly coat looks close to what you want, and it comes as small as a size 6. _http://www.jeanhardypatterns.com/patterns.htm_ (http://www.jeanhardypatterns.com/patterns.htm) Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 08:17:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59CHGCW010534 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:17:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59CGH53025004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:16:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59CGCM5007310; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-03.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j59CG8Bi007277 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 06:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 11011 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 12:15:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.5.139) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 9 Jun 2005 12:15:53 -0000 Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:22:46 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <3013B599-D8E1-11D9-B75B-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Where can you buy this pattern online? I can't find it for sale online anywhere. Aylwen (who wants to make one for herself!) On Thursday, June 9, 2005, at 12:49 AM, Abel, Cynthia wrote: > > > On the Simplicity website for their Fall Preview patterns is a new > Martha McCain Civil War era dress pattern. It is #4510 and appears to > be a more formal "visiting gown." It appears to be deep violet(on my > screen), possibly in imitation of the then newly popular aniline dyes. > > > Cindy Abel > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 09:22:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59DMc7v010974 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:22:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59DK6UC034743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59DJx3e036957; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:19:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59DJtKS036906 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:19:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m124.in-tch.com [216.166.191.124]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j59DEq418229 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:14:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42A84352.8000608@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 07:25:38 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out References: <3013B599-D8E1-11D9-B75B-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> In-Reply-To: <3013B599-D8E1-11D9-B75B-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If it's a "Fall Preview" pattern, it may not yet be out in the stores.... --sue Aylwen & John wrote: > Where can you buy this pattern online? I can't find it for sale online > anywhere. > Aylwen (who wants to make one for herself!) > > On Thursday, June 9, 2005, at 12:49 AM, Abel, Cynthia wrote: > >> >> >> On the Simplicity website for their Fall Preview patterns is a new >> Martha McCain Civil War era dress pattern. It is #4510 and appears to >> be a more formal "visiting gown." It appears to be deep violet(on my >> screen), possibly in imitation of the then newly popular aniline dyes. >> >> >> Cindy Abel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 11:44:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59FiWQ4011829 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:44:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59FhTJL050788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59Fh8Ws031821; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:43:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59Fg6L1030996 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.77.472ca408 (4592) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:41:55 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <77.472ca408.2fd9bd42@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:41:54 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/8/2005 10:31:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net writes: > Yes, the bright copper and reddish brown are what I was referring to. > I would not call strawberry blonde a bright red... > > And of course these are huge generalities. It may be that in, say, Greece or Italy where dark hair is prominent, bright copper red would have the men flocking to admire its exotic beauty. But we're talking England, so such a color may be looked down upon as too Irish or Scottish...horrors! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 15:00:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59J0BCg013149 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:00:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59IwTf9076165 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:58:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59IwMAt090909; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:58:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay17-f6.bay17.hotmail.com [64.4.43.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59IwJ9d090831 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:58:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:58:14 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 129.244.96.22 by by17fd.bay17.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:58:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.244.96.22] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200506091544.j59Fh6uL031784@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:58:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Jun 2005 18:58:14.0118 (UTC) FILETIME=[30482860:01C56D25] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Velcro, and pointy shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Kate M Bunting" >A winkle is a shellfish, traditionally bought cooked at the seaside and >pulled out of their shells with a >pin. Pointy shoes were called winkle-pickers in the late 1950s-early 60s. Thank you, I missed the message this is responding to. And yes, that's *ahem* certainly the most common definition, although considering some of the weirder looking medieval shoes... :) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 15:06:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59J6YpK013188 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:06:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59J5o6B077256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59J5lk1096650; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:05:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59FXR2p024014 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:33:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.53.29459d7b (4592) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:33:11 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <53.29459d7b.2fd9bb37@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:33:11 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dress an 1861 governess... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/8/2005 3:22:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, jacquelinejbump@gmail.com writes: > If I could suggest an excellent book titled "The Unnatural History of the > Nanny" by Jonathan Gathorne-Hardy. It covers governesses and the like in > enough detail to give you some help. > That sounds interesting. I was gonna say, If you want to see it all in action, check out the film "Angels and Insects". Yes, some of the costumes are indeed stylized, but the Governess' [a major character] clothes are not and her style is contrasted realistically, I think, with her "betters". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 15:07:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59J7Swe013193 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:07:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59J6ikq077502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59J6hLI097570; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:06:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59IFYch057496 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 12:15:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.57.248] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DgRYz-000193-9c for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 14:15:34 -0400 Message-ID: <009101c56d1f$39732b70$f8399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Velcro, and pointy shoes Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:15:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b7e67f8c107575c588fcb8c2ba61be4f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.248 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate wrote: >A winkle is a shellfish, traditionally bought cooked at the seaside and >pulled out of their shells with a pin. Pointy shoes were called >winkle-pickers in the late 1950s-early 60s. Here, they were called lock-pickers and cockroach killers (because they could get into the corners). -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 16:26:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59KQ2xU013651 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:26:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59KP3AO087370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59KOp06055562; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:24:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59KOHLx055108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j59KOK2o083620 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:24:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j59KOG6P083619 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:24:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.148.202 ( [65.93.148.202]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:24:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1118348656.42a8a5708d4a5@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:24:16 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dress an 1861 governess... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.148.202 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And let's not forget Jane Eyre, of course. Laura -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 17:36:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59LaD8x014053 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59LZ543096997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:35:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59LYxYv009891; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:35:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59LYpTC009726 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so373725nzo for ; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 14:34:45 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=k8StAbzW2W1XtJqtobsTK43xWnu6QM3pfxjoSAFVqoxv6LkL7xYB2pcRr2By5NR61uqlH8AhGDTSKpYiiWh7Ikx6C7q01FaA3EwWWVW6IDUY2CSIJboEcXGETjQrGOibP9XKHkgNOhmjpAhVYaOMHfolVVIMAmWVZZ5obvhBPxg= Received: by 10.36.96.4 with SMTP id t4mr682240nzb; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 14:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc805060914346ca39f78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:34:45 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dress an 1861 governess... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j59LYpTC009726 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Except that Jane was well before 1861 and being the graduate and former teacher of a charity school her dress would have been even plainer than the normal dress of her era. -------Original Message------- And let's not forget Jane Eyre, of course. Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 18:20:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59MK55q014306 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:20:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59MJGrr002062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:19:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59MJFYe041993; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:19:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59MJB3m041869 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:19:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1f2.b7325f1 (15875) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:19:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R34 (fwm-r34.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.138]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e0342a8c057134; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:19:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:19:03 -0400 From: tearoses@aol.com Message-Id: <8C73B5860B6B20C-D88-5E41@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User Received: from 216.23.116.42 by FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.138) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:19:03 -0400 X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.138 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know if these two books are worth the paper they're printed on? Costumes of the Greeks and Romans by Thomas Hope Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume by Mary G. Houston I'm looking for early Byzantine specifically, but I'll settle for late Roman or what they call "romanesque" if that's all I can get. I can't figure out why there are so many Byzantine personas in my local SCA group when I can't find ANY decent reference material on them. I'm starting to think it's just an excuse to sew on forty pounds' worth of beads. Other suggestions of books on the period would be welcome, too. Thanks, guys. Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 19:00:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59N0JKX014520 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:00:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59MwcfK006751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:58:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59MwXHP068063; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:58:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59MwSmV067989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-223-76-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.223.76]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j59MwPda020518 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:58:26 +1000 Message-ID: <000001c56d46$940326e0$4cdff5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:06:29 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I was trying to explain the natural form period to a non costumer recently and I often resort to 'think of [XYZ movie]' or sometimes [xyz figure famous enough that you can picture them e.g. Marie Antoinette] when I'm explaining what sort of style I'm talking about. But I couldn't think of a movie set in the 1870s-80s. Can anybody else think of one? I realise bustle styles are probably not going to be terribly popular as the idea of a big backside is abhorrent to modern fashion, but the natural form period has a lot in common with modern aesthetics, emphasising long lines and a tall slim figure, without the need to distort actual fashions like they do with regency (which almost fits the modern aesthetic so they tinker a little so only the costumers notice the difference and their actresses look 'good' on the screen) I suppose westerns are usually set about this time but I can't think of any recent ones (and there's very little room for fashionable ladies when you're focussing so heavily on men out in the wilderness) So is there one I've missed or do the directors just skip those two decades? Elizabeth (still procrastinating from assignments, I've got a week to write 2500 words after all *g*) -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 19:01:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59N1GTH014529 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:01:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59N0Mrm006950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59N0MvG069219; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59N0FfI069116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:00:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j59Mu3lR014815 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:56:03 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:56:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42A8C9FD.3020500@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:00:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume notes 1662: cloaks and ruffians X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excerpt from http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/06/08/index.php Home, and observe my man Will to walk with his cloak flung over his shoulder, like a Ruffian, which, whether it was that he might not be seen to walk along with the footboy, I know not, but I was vexed at it; and coming home, and after prayers, I did ask him where he learned that immodest garb, and he answered me that it was not immodest, or some such slight answer, at which I did give him two boxes on the ears, which I never did before, and so was after a little troubled at it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 19:21:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59NLaBr014684 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:21:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59NKH33008795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:20:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59NKG5b080991; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:20:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59NKCa7080870 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:20:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005060923200501400d11ene>; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:20:05 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c56d49$c691a0c0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:20:07 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New Designer Reality Show X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j59NLaBr014684 Status: RO It starts tonight on CBS... 8:00-9:30 ET... The Cut: Iconic design mogul Tommy Hilfiger hosts this new reality series in search of the next great American designer. Hilfiger's rags-to-riches journey is the basis for the competition in which 16 style-savvy contestants will find themselves literally living Hilfiger's life in fast-forward. Competing in a series of grueling style assignments that test their talent, business acumen, sales and marketing expertise, social skills, resourcefulness and style IQs, the winner will have the opportunity to design his or her own collection under the Tommy Hilfiger label. http://www.cbs.com/primetime/the_cut/ Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 19:32:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59NWKAW014761 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59NVbXr010043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59NVZAl087668; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:31:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52803.mail.yahoo.com (web52803.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j59NVXNK087552 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 64764 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jun 2005 23:31:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=upAYf/mmwCvrCKeVHtr70IT1XY7+Qppndgn0TCLdgJQ32Eom4sFTig/Yo9kLUEfoMBvjPCd8qLcuQ3QTRvKvKurJPg7gocgP1eq+liPZMXJ1jTrYvZHZzYFeT2oSSw3Qs5EcdQENDdrZ5JZ5waK5VUhzuyRbaC6M0h66Zjqpdjc= ; Message-ID: <20050609233127.64762.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:31:27 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:31:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <000001c56d46$940326e0$4cdff5dc@e9q5h8> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Life with Father" should be about right, shouldn't it, if they did it in the correct period? I've never actually watched it, as I'm afraid it'll ruin the book for me (one of my favorites), but I know a lot of people love it. You'll be a far better judge of its period accuracy than I, but I would think it would be worth a look. KP Elizabeth Walpole wrote: Hi everyone, I was trying to explain the natural form period to a non costumer recently and I often resort to 'think of [XYZ movie]' or sometimes [xyz figure famous enough that you can picture them e.g. Marie Antoinette] when I'm explaining what sort of style I'm talking about. But I couldn't think of a movie set in the 1870s-80s. Can anybody else think of one? I realise bustle styles are probably not going to be terribly popular as the idea of a big backside is abhorrent to modern fashion, but the natural form period has a lot in common with modern aesthetics, emphasising long lines and a tall slim figure, without the need to distort actual fashions like they do with regency (which almost fits the modern aesthetic so they tinker a little so only the costumers notice the difference and their actresses look 'good' on the screen) I suppose westerns are usually set about this time but I can't think of any recent ones (and there's very little room for fashionable ladies when you're focussing so heavily on men out in the wilderness) So is there one I've missed or do the directors just skip those two decades? Elizabeth (still procrastinating from assignments, I've got a week to write 2500 words after all *g*) -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 19:35:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59NZeaF014780 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:35:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59NYxQU010309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:34:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59NYwdV089641; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:34:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59NYtJ5089607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:34:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-226.sonic.net [209.148.114.226]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59NYs0V009698 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:34:54 -0700 Message-ID: <42A8D22A.9060305@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:35:06 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies References: <000001c56d46$940326e0$4cdff5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <000001c56d46$940326e0$4cdff5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, >I was trying to explain the natural form period to a non costumer recently >and I often resort to 'think of [XYZ movie]' or sometimes [xyz figure famous >enough that you can picture them e.g. Marie Antoinette] when I'm explaining >what sort of style I'm talking about. But I couldn't think of a movie set in >the 1870s-80s. Can anybody else think of one? > If I recall correctly, the 1974 _Daisy Miller_ (a superb film and an excellent rendition of Henry Jame's novel) was costumed in the natural form period. I haven't seen it in a while though. > but the natural form period has a lot in common >with modern aesthetics, emphasising long lines and a tall slim figure, >without the need to distort actual fashions like they do with regency (which >almost fits the modern aesthetic so they tinker a little so only the >costumers notice the difference and their actresses look 'good' on the >screen) > I agree. Fran Grimble Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming Two books of natural form era patterns! http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 19:38:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j59Ncr6Q014834 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:38:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j59NcCAD010766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59NcAA4091579; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j59Nc7NX091544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:38:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j59NcC2o094223 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:38:12 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j59NcBbK094222 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:38:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.95.27.243 ( [65.95.27.243]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:38:11 -0400 Message-ID: <1118360291.42a8d2e3e751f@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:38:11 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How to dress an 1861 governess... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.95.27.243 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was referring to her status in relation to the family. The life of a governess didn't change much in 100 years, even if the fashions did. Just a good classic of the day. -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 20:46:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A0kP8f015230 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:46:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A0jcPj016892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:45:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A0jYYn026199; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:45:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A0jVmq026135 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:45:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.103.631d84d7 (4012) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:45:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <103.631d84d7.2fda3ca1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:45:21 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recommend a Merchant-Ivory film "The Bostonians". some great clothes in that. Some obviously real. And Scorsese's "Age of Innocence". _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 20:49:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A0nWhL015242 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A0mnsM017085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:48:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A0mnZJ027582; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:48:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A0mjrx027497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:48:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A29D6j025484 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:09:17 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:48:35 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506092048.35447.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 09 June 2005 4:10 am, Kate M Bunting wrote: > But the 19th century isn't the 15th! Certainly in 18th-19th century > literature "red-haired" seems to be intended as synonymous with "plain". You raise a good point. I simply don't know whether the 18th-19th century belief that red-haired = "plain" is a historical relic of earlier sentiment against red hair, or whether it arose from something else entirely. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 21:25:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A1PT5Z015398 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:25:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A1GaCg019744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:16:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1GYUZ041224; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:16:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1GWA8041172 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:16:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.112 ([204.127.197.112]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050610011626014002hhfqe>; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:16:26 +0000 Received: from [67.165.126.109] by 204.127.197.112; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:16:24 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: new belly styles was Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:16:24 +0000 Message-Id: <061020050116.14221.42A8E9E60000D3DB0000378D22007507440809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Springing off of the comment about big backsides, a trend I've been noticing among the late teens and early 20's set around the town (Univ. of WA): Hip hugger jeans, a cropped top, and a lovely view of not just the navel, but (to my wondering eyes) a liberal amount of 'baby fat' (for lack of a better phrase) proudly displayed just above the waistband of the jeans. It actually doesn't look 'gross' to me. At least they don't look anorexic. Another trend I'm seeing is for gals to wear a skirt and a pair of 'pants' under it. Today I saw a young lady wearing a micro-mini black knit ruffled skirt over a pair of raggedy well worn flared jeans. Is this the new grunge? -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares Can anybody else think of one? I realise bustle styles are > probably not going to be terribly popular as the idea of a big backside is > abhorrent to modern fashion, but the natural form period has a lot in common > with modern aesthetics, emphasising long lines and a tall slim figure, > without the need to distort actual fashions like they do with regency (which > almost fits the modern aesthetic so they tinker a little so only the > costumers notice the difference and their actresses look 'good' on the > screen) I suppose westerns are usually set about this time but I can't think > of any recent ones (and there's very little room for fashionable ladies when > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 21:26:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A1QrcD015403 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:26:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A1QDS1020709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:26:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1QBR4045729; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:26:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1Q732045701 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:26:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59B7C15C6D for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:26:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tuxedo/tails pattern needed Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:26:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <96.28ffd0b2.2fd97810@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcVs4Jp4L2C+DwYrRhmzUiEXPnyLmQAenoYQ Message-Id: <20050610012607.59B7C15C6D@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the suggestion. I looked up Jean Hardy on the web, plus I went to G-Street today and found that Folkwear has a frock coat, plus the prince Charlie jacket in the kilt pattern is not too far off, so I think I may use those. There is also a Suitability shadbelly that is pretty close. So, somewhere between these three is the jacket I have in mind.... unless I find an actual tails pattern before I get around to making it. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 21:30:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A1Ut04015423 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A1Tvlr021122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:29:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1TsID047650; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:29:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1TqYe047588 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:29:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so493701nzp for ; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:29:47 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=r/kBPmEQqTUFaccfTu2mSNUPLWrZ4a8YvM+Gw+GdtlMEOj9W4g+0WdvLEwhsPvr7uP+aNqAT5U782OQRivkC+aOPt/82gteZin3dpHHXKRus1U+9eBa5Zf68e5Vgphttnfqa2UaTJw8cAmo1+E30iOZhy3VaD3JAVuo9MCjeREY= Received: by 10.36.46.15 with SMTP id t15mr790604nzt; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc805060918297e450dc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:29:47 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: new belly styles was Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5A1TqYe047588 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was in HS (grad in 90) I often wore my denim mini over leggins so I'm guessing it's just the new version of a retro look. Fashion always returns. Bustles are also in among the goth crowd (I sell a bustle skirt a month on average in nearly every fabric out there mainly plastic) the more lavish the better with train is even better. Bice Another trend I'm seeing is for gals to wear a skirt and a pair of 'pants' under it. Today I saw a young lady wearing a micro-mini black knit ruffled skirt over a pair of raggedy well worn flared jeans. Is this the new grunge? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 21:56:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A1u9aW015549 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:56:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A1sf8x023929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1sbTm058883; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A1sZku058858 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:54:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) Received: from [4.155.21.171] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DgYjC-000400-1O for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:54:34 -0400 Message-ID: <005201c56d5f$58e15410$ab159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c56d46$940326e0$4cdff5dc@e9q5h8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:54:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0bde9fbc8a87bb2831d27934b34230188b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.171 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not a movie, but an HBO series which just wrapped its second season - "Deadwood". There are a lot of female characters, of several classes, some of whom are recently arrived from back east, and therefore fashionably dressed. If the series is not running in Australia, you can go to the website - http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show1 where you can see lots of pictures. If you click on "behind the scenes", you can access a special feature with the costume designer. As for movies, try "The Age of Innocence" (1993) with Daniel Day-Lewis and Michelle Pfeiffer. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 22:06:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A26Zr3015599 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:06:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A25vTY025315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A25umI064764; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:05:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A25rZ8064743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:05:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-220.sonic.net [209.148.113.220]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A25qHL013523 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:05:52 -0700 Message-ID: <42A8F58C.8010806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:06:04 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice References: <200506092048.35447.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200506092048.35447.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Part of the 19th-century prejudice against red hair--before the Pre-Rapaelites, who brought it into style--was the preference for very fair skin. Redheads tend to get freckles. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com >I simply don't know whether the 18th-19th century >belief that red-haired = "plain" is a historical relic of earlier sentiment >against red hair, or whether it arose from something else entirely. > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 22:17:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A2HlmK015635 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:17:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A2F2dN026122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:15:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A2F0H2069374; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:15:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A2EwFc069331 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:14:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so511071nzp for ; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:14:53 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=LW1ymPL4ACI1mx6UY8/fYIByE3Gs/Q9RF9a+4vKm/6vSuFsL2fi1AFhEDh+kDFz0mMLfjqgMaAuYU1/V/f9CVoqhOdktw3BwbEVQevydbMRHmk2KHK+vW0ZWcdYFCUZzQvu70LNbiThWQiF2cPrHv2rpnOyx9YCOiOJtknpnnQQ= Received: by 10.36.97.2 with SMTP id u2mr841126nzb; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8050609191462ced002@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:14:53 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5A2EwFc069331 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Redheads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All the posts on redheads made me think about one of the recent prejudices I was reading about with redheads. I wish I could recall where however. It had to do with that it was felt that red heads were a sign that the parents had copulated during the woman's menses showing a lack of restrain that was possibly passed on to the child. In the case of the daughter this could be horrible. The one reference had to do of course with Elizabeth I. Bice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 22:46:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A2kQjS015799 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:46:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A2jjO1030412 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:45:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A2jfsl085214; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5A2jcLd085151 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:45:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLT9XNACFKHFS for (sender ); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:45:00 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn76cKFIZA8uIfOPbY0y3JJTvdbhNAG5yHDA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KU4Q68PK; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:44:02 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:38:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redheads Message-ID: <20050609.213821.-7434051.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 10-19,21-38 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 12:6:2673589545 X-MAIL-INFO: 29f36aea6a8b1e5f8b1ea39e1ea3cfd3bb5e970fabde5ecaf7ebab8acafecbdfca735b3af323f3930ba34f1ef39e X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Of course, Elizabeth didn't actually have red hair. She had a reddish blonde that was the same as her father's.....and I don't believe that anyone ever accused either Henry VII or Elizabeth of York of being profligate....later in her reign she often wore wigs of a less subtle color. For her true hair color, see the portrait of her attributed to Scrots where she is an adolescent girl- it's closer to gold than red.....not that there's anything wrong with red hair, it's just a common misconception that Elizabeth had red hair and it makes me cranky when people attempt to cast aspersion on her without really knowing anything about her or her time. (That's not you, it's the author of whatever it was you read.....) Karen Seamstrix On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:14:53 -0400 Jacqueline Johnson writes: > All the posts on redheads made me think about one of the recent > prejudices I was reading about with redheads. I wish I could recall > where however. It had to do with that it was felt that red heads > were > a sign that the parents had copulated during the woman's menses > showing a lack of restrain that was possibly passed on to the child. > In the case of the daughter this could be horrible. The one > reference > had to do of course with Elizabeth I. > > Bice > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 23:09:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A39SvR015887 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:09:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A38ep4032901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:08:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A38aDt096009; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:08:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-2.paradise.net.nz (bm-2a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.21]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A38XoE095968 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:08:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (smtp-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.194]) by linda-2.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0IHU002PVM28AE@linda-2.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:08:32 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-97.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.97]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14C9C8292A for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:08:31 +1200 (NZST) Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:01:27 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice In-reply-to: <200506092048.35447.cathy@thyrsus.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42A90287.7080403@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <200506092048.35447.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Thursday 09 June 2005 4:10 am, Kate M Bunting wrote: > > >>But the 19th century isn't the 15th! Certainly in 18th-19th century >>literature "red-haired" seems to be intended as synonymous with "plain". >> >> > >You raise a good point. I simply don't know whether the 18th-19th century >belief that red-haired = "plain" is a historical relic of earlier sentiment >against red hair, or whether it arose from something else entirely > > I don't think it was even red hair as such that was all tha objectionable, but the freckles that often go with it were. Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 23:33:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A3XnkI016015 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:33:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A3X8RW035328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:33:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A3X6fR008927; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A3X3tD008853 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so541518nzp for ; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:32:58 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=n2licj0qifvxNSJQuLTieWxCKK1V+HXBm1TC52nIbHPoY43z/2Lc71R8CcK8rxZBa4pmDwBW2gg2nWYuexI+K70HLNukd4FwaleqNiwPbhI67AoNsVWUj+C93DVNgr+lYpRs+0wdbRaUE7wlhAXTZfdEvv0FIYP+rJ4/Wn1fNj4= Received: by 10.36.39.19 with SMTP id m19mr894397nzm; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 20:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8050609203228036cc7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:32:58 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5A3X3tD008853 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re:redheads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To be honest the author cast nothing on her. It was an in general comment about how society of the time up until today had that prejudice against redheads and Elizabeth had been included amongst them. I saw her hair as more a red gold myself in most of the paintings and descriptions of the time and depending on her wig and choice for the day. (or glint of light) Of course, Elizabeth didn't actually have red hair. She had a reddish blonde that was the same as her father's.....and I don't believe that anyone ever accused either Henry VII or Elizabeth of York of being profligate....later in her reign she often wore wigs of a less subtle color. For her true hair color, see the portrait of her attributed to Scrots where she is an adolescent girl- it's closer to gold than red.....not that there's anything wrong with red hair, it's just a common misconception that Elizabeth had red hair and it makes me cranky when people attempt to cast aspersion on her without really knowing anything about her or her time. (That's not you, it's the author of whatever it was you read.....) Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 9 23:58:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A3wkqh016122 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:58:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A3vXao037111 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:57:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A3vWvO019213; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:57:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A3vScN019135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:57:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A5I0qY028848 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:18:00 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:57:21 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <8C73B5860B6B20C-D88-5E41@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C73B5860B6B20C-D88-5E41@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506092357.21950.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 09 June 2005 6:19 pm, tearoses@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know if these two books are worth the paper they're printed on? > > Costumes of the Greeks and Romans by Thomas Hope The edition I have of Hope is a Dover reprint of his 1812 book. The book is roughly 99% redrawings of figures from Greek and Roman pottery and/or sculpture, as well as a few miscellaneous images from other ancient cultures. The drawings have one-line captions that tell the reader next to nothing. Further, Hope does not identify the source of most of his images, and only provides a general summary of costume of the period which is clearly his reporting in words the trends he perceived in the images he redrew. I haven't looked at the Hope book it for awhile and classical Greece/Rome is not my main period, so I will make no representations about the accuracy of his information or the quality of his redrawing. However, I know he's not what you're looking for, because his book has nothing Byzantine in it; his cutoff date appears (based on my memory of the images) to be somewhere during the early days of the Roman Republic, more than 300 years before the period we think of as early Byzantine arguably began. > Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume by Mary G. Houston This one isn't bad, and definitely covers what I consider "early Byzantine" (though I'm not really sure what you mean by that description). I have a ex-library second edition copy that is dated 1947. Like Hope's book, Houston's book is illustrated entirely with redrawings and she gives at best only general dating (e.g. "5th C A.D.") for most images, but unlike Hope she identifies where most of her sources came from so the inspired reader can track them down elsewhere and thus learn more about them. Insofar as I'm familiar with the original source, her redrawings aren't bad. Her "Byzantine" section also includes a chapter on Eastern Orthodox church vestments (though that may not be of much interest or use to you). Also like Hope, 99% of what Houston says about the costumes she writes about is based upon her study of period artwork. However, Houston has a better eye for interpreting costume-related art and figuring out what kind of garments a drawing or sculpture is meant to depict than do most costume historians who attempt the same feat. In general, when Houston makes a generalization about what was often or always worn in period, or why it was worn, she is wrong as often as she's right, but when she focuses on a particular artwork and how the items of clothing shown therein drapes and how it might have been made, her advice is, IMHO, quite good. Houston also likes to provide diagrams of how she believes the clothing was constructed based on her examination of the art, and these look good to me, though I can't speak with authority here since I haven't tried to reconstruct anything on the basis of the drawings or diagrams in this book. She also includes images of representative patterns and accessories, which you will find useful also (though they'd be better with more precise dating than Houston supplies). The biggest catch in using Houston is that you may need to know more about the period before you can tell which drawing fits the time frame of your chosen persona, since her dating is so vague. So, overall, I'd say pick up a copy of Houston if you can get it at a reasonable price, but forget about Hope. I know that Houston's book on Mesopotamian costume was recently reprinted by Dover in a cheap paperback edition, and this one may have as well--check dover.com to see. If not, you can often find old hardback copies fairly cheap ( I think I paid $25 for mine before shipping) on the websites of on-line used book dealers or even on Ebay. > I'm looking for early Byzantine specifically, but I'll settle for late > Roman or what they call "romanesque" if that's all I can get. "Late Roman" (say, 300-400 CE) and "early Byzantine (say, 400-600 CE) are pretty similar in appearance and tend to shade into each other. "Romanesque" is neither late Roman or, for that matter, early Byzantine. It's used to describe an art and architecture style that's characteristic, not of Byzantium, but of northern Europe rather later in time than what I'd consider "early Byzantine." The Wikipedia claims that the "Romanesque" period is 11thc-12thc, though I'd always thought it started a bit earlier (around 800). Anyway, here's Wikipedia's entry on "Romanesque." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanesque > I can't > figure out why there are so many Byzantine personas in my local SCA group > when I can't find ANY decent reference material on them. I can. Two words: minimal tailoring. :-) It's a lot easier to sew beads on a dalmatic (wide sleeved Byzantine style of tunic) than it is to fit a proper Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but you can go as crazy decorating the Byzantine if you wish. > I'm starting to > think it's just an excuse to sew on forty pounds' worth of beads. Yes, you could be right. See above. Are the Byzantines in your group enthusiastic embroiderers and/or beaders outside of SCA activities? > Other suggestions of books on the period would be welcome, too. I don't know of any books off hand on Byzantine costume/culture of the period other than SCA pamphlets which may be out of print and/or less than authoritative. I suggest you look for a good book or two on Byzantine art, with plenty of illustrations (color if you can find such a treasure). No wait, I take that back. I have heard of a scholar called Anna Muthenius (or something like that) who supposedly has written the definitive studies of Byzantine textiles, but the only copies I've ever seen of her works were on used book sites and going for over $250 apiece. That's probably outside your budget (I know it's outside of mine) but if you track down the titles you can take a shot at getting them through interlibrary loan. In addition, consider looking up these websites: The Basics of Byzantine Dress c. 1000 A.D--Exactly what the title implies. http://www.gryph.com/byzantine/dress.htm Levantia. This site concentrates more on Byzantine costume in and about the Levant, and includes material as late as the 13th century, but a lot of it is Early Period. Some Arab costume material as well. http://www.levantia.com.au/ Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 00:00:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A40jxr016136 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A3xSD4037329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A3xSm7020114; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A3xPKi020037 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:59:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j5A3xJ613499 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:59:20 -0500 Message-ID: <42A91023.1000008@wideopenwest.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:59:31 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redheads References: <4c5accc8050609191462ced002@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4c5accc8050609191462ced002@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > All the posts on redheads made me think about one of the recent > prejudices I was reading about with redheads. I wish I could recall > where however. It had to do with that it was felt that red heads were > a sign that the parents had copulated during the woman's menses > showing a lack of restrain that was possibly passed on to the child. > In the case of the daughter this could be horrible. The one reference > had to do of course with Elizabeth I. > > Bice Hahahahaha! And both sides of my family are loaded with redheads! They'll find this funny. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 00:14:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A4EsTa016272 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:14:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A4DxP9038450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:13:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A4DvGW026131; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:13:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A4Dr3P026065 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:13:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A5YPo0029251 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:34:25 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:13:47 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506092048.35447.cathy@thyrsus.com> <42A8F58C.8010806@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <42A8F58C.8010806@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506100013.47396.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 09 June 2005 10:06 pm, Lavolta Press wrote: > Part of the 19th-century prejudice against red hair--before the > Pre-Rapaelites, who brought it into style--was the preference for very > fair skin. Redheads tend to get freckles. I should have remembered that; thanks. (That may have been part of the medieval prejudice too, judging by the home remedies against freckling). -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 00:49:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A4noBF016662 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A4kXOZ040992 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:46:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A4kVkG040658; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:46:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5A4kRaI040603 for ; Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:46:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 63123 invoked from network); 10 Jun 2005 04:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.suziclarke.co.uk) (h-costume@indra.com@217.44.108.139 with poptime) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jun 2005 04:46:21 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20050610053522.014e1ff8@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: mail.suziclarke.co.uk:suziclarkeuk-mail@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:44:21 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: new belly styles was Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies In-Reply-To: <061020050116.14221.42A8E9E60000D3DB0000378D220075074408090 70E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5A4kRaI040603 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:16 10/06/2005 +0000, you wrote: >Springing off of the comment about big backsides, a trend I've been >noticing among the late teens and early 20's set around the town (Univ. >of WA): Hip hugger jeans, a cropped top, and a lovely view of not just >the navel, but (to my wondering eyes) a liberal amount of 'baby fat' (for >lack of a better phrase) proudly displayed just above the waistband of the >jeans. It actually doesn't look 'gross' to me. At least they don't look >anorexic. > >Another trend I'm seeing is for gals to wear a skirt and a pair of 'pants' >under it. Today I saw a young lady wearing a micro-mini black knit >ruffled skirt over a pair of raggedy well worn flared jeans. > >Is this the new grunge? > >-- >Slan go foill >Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri I don't know about the new grunge but in London those fashions are old hat. Jeans that are dyed and bleached to look old and dirty (!!) seem to be the new grunge. Torn is "in". Many of the ethnic minorities here wear skirts over trousers, and I don't mean shawar kameez type outfits. Various bits of puppy fat are proudly on display in clothes - often tracksuits with baggy legs are worn low on the hips, and (whisper it ) underpants show above the waistband - so ugly. And yesterday, going up to see the Star Wars movie, a blonde wearing a gold leather jump suit, split to the navel, with probably her bra exposed under it, got on the bus. Boy did I wish I had a gun - would have made a great trophy! "Unusual specimen of London Dress, 2005"! I hate underwear as underwear but showing, straps of bras, knickers/panties/thongs exposed on fat backsides. Bring back decorum say I. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 02:22:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A6MSEM026779 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 02:22:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A6LZO2047545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:21:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A6LRZE077639; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:21:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5A6LOmJ077593 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:21:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 54458 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2005 06:21:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=EiZcr6HC0oScT7p3rh74hCUmFTQ4SpBHKd9EXHZk5bdkk4ds3BlXYZA0gcFgvGEgFcmhbgwt7Aj5Mw82H6z0gJAkFT0MciSRTR0OBDVbTtaGJJYevztJkpdYoZRJnO3j7ojK3uWPzmH7Ne0TcBkuzBnFCgaNKMFOxUuRbT/08rM= ; Message-ID: <20050610062118.54456.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.82.32] by web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 23:21:18 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:21:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume Cheap books online To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <200506092357.21950.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hello ladies, < Much snippage> just for fun I checked my new favorite place for cheap books- WalMart online. I found: Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume Author: Houston, Mary G. List Price: $12.95 Our Price: $9.74 IN STOCK Paperback, 182 pages, Dover Pub. Date: Aug 2003, Publisher: Dover Pubns ISBN: 0486426106, Description (from the publisher or distributor) This meticulously researched and profusely illustrated book includes 315 drawings based on renderings by artists of the period to achieve utmost accuracy and authenticity. Included are elaborate examples of Aegean costume, Doric and Ionic styles of dress for women, Greek and Roman armor, graceful and intricately arranged Roman togas, the tunica--a roomy wide-sleeved garment--and the pallium, a cloak-like garment. Ornate vestments of the Eastern Orthodox Church and Byzantine costumes are carefully described and portrayed as are styles of hairdressing, jewelry, and other decorative elements. Instructions and flat patterns showing the cut of sample garments make it easy for costume designers to reproduce period apparel. An excellent reference for the history classroom, this volume will be invaluable to costume historians and art students interested in the development of representative art. Unabridged republication of the edition published by Adam & Charles Black, London, 1947. 315 black-and-white illustrations. --- Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Thursday 09 June 2005 6:19 pm, tearoses@aol.com > wrote: > > Does anyone know if these two books are worth the > paper they're printed on? > > > > > > > > > Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume by Mary > G. Houston > > This one isn't bad, and definitely covers what I > consider "early Byzantine" by that description). > Houston's book is illustrated entirely with > redrawings and she gives at best only general dating (e.g. "5th C A.D.") for most images, but unlike Hope she > identifies where most of her sources came from so > the inspired reader can track them down elsewhere and thus learn more about them. > > Houston has a better eye > for interpreting costume-related art and figuring > out what kind of garments a drawing or sculpture is meant to depict than do most costume historians who attempt the same feat. > > So, overall, I'd say pick up a copy of Houston if > you can get it at a reasonable price, > > > > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 03:41:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A7fViX015494 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A7eCCi053606 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:40:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A7e9Zf011084; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:40:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A7e4In011027 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 01:40:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-216-116-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.216.116]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5A7e176007843 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:40:03 +1000 Message-ID: <000101c56d8f$72574500$74d8f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <3013B599-D8E1-11D9-B75B-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:53:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aylwen & John" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out > Where can you buy this pattern online? I can't find it for sale online > anywhere. > Aylwen (who wants to make one for herself!) > I thought Simplicity sold them through their website? or is that just the 3 McCall's companies? Emailing Simplicity would be a good start, just tell them you need it now and it isn't going to arrive in Australia for a while. When you do buy it let me know I'm very tempted to try it out (I like the skirt especially, though I could probably improvise that without a pattern) and I'd like to have a look at the instructions sheet for more information. Elizabeth (2 essays down 3 to go) -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 05:33:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5A9Xete007901 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:33:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5A9Wd96077338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A9WYDa057868; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:32:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5A9WVr3057808 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:32:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m74.in-tch.com [216.166.191.74]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5A9RM419024 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42A95F81.80405@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 03:38:09 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice References: <200506092048.35447.cathy@thyrsus.com> <42A8F58C.8010806@lavoltapress.com> <200506100013.47396.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200506100013.47396.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Out of the depths of my PUFF file ("Perfectly Useless Facts & Figures), I dredge forth a vague memory of reading, more than once, about an old (as in medieval?) superstition about Judas Iscariot also having red hair, which adds additional...unluckiness...to the associations with the color. --sue Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > On Thursday 09 June 2005 10:06 pm, Lavolta Press wrote: > >>Part of the 19th-century prejudice against red hair--before the >>Pre-Rapaelites, who brought it into style--was the preference for very >>fair skin. Redheads tend to get freckles. > > > I should have remembered that; thanks. (That may have been part of the > medieval prejudice too, judging by the home remedies against freckling). > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 07:39:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ABdYMV021887 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:39:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ABcjNZ089287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ABchBf011922; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ABcetP011868 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:38:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.23]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050610113834.RPSO7497.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:38:34 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050610062155.0306a660@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:38:14 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume In-Reply-To: <200506100130.j5A1UTb0047892@net.indra.com> References: <200506100130.j5A1UTb0047892@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was not terribly impressed by Mary G. Houston's.. but it's a bit better than Norris (I find Norris too unreliable). I haven't seen the Hope. There's a new book coming out that I've been waiting for: Byzantine Dress : Representations of Secular Dress (The New Middle Ages) by Jennifer L. Ball Hardcover: 256 pages. Palgrave Macmillan (September 15, 2005) Language: English ISBN: 1403967008 another that I've been thinking about is Ecclesiastical Dress in the Medieval Near East (Studies in Textile Costume History, Vol 1) by K.C. Innemee, Karel C. Innemee Hardcover: 300 pages. Brill Academic Pub (August 1, 1997) ISBN: 9004095489 Beth At 08:30 PM 6/9/2005, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 18:19:03 -0400 >From: tearoses@aol.com > >Does anyone know if these two books are worth the paper they're printed on? > >Costumes of the Greeks and Romans by Thomas Hope >Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume by Mary G. Houston > >I'm looking for early Byzantine specifically, but I'll settle for late >Roman or what they call "romanesque" if that's all I can get. I can't >figure out why there are so many Byzantine personas in my local SCA group >when I can't find ANY decent reference material on them. I'm starting to >think it's just an excuse to sew on forty pounds' worth of beads. > >Other suggestions of books on the period would be welcome, too. > >Thanks, guys. >Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 08:41:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ACexZU022924 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:41:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ACdvUq093859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ACdr77038758; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:39:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41905.mail.yahoo.com (web41905.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5ACdqcU038709 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:39:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18347 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2005 12:39:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0FdMQ9hmTWRUa7om4HklxLti5dCt4AwBvyzVhwHn1m89qpoLRYrKwbVn8yNYI0p1n8aVT3Kep/WkhYQf8w8Ne/OxJgCK3gkGQlwCkNA/enAx1qEGKarBxsvPCKaeiQCK8sl1eyoDJNUeSGFaPqRg61kGJXaKzWtohFT6lNL9QuI= ; Message-ID: <20050610123946.18345.qmail@web41905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.188] by web41905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:39:46 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 05:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 392 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Us rredheads ain nothing but trouble..says my mom well actually a lot of Mischief and a whole lot of fun....Says I! From one who had the kind of rich Copper gold red hair that you can pick out in a crowd of redheads.... Satine teh Sassy redhead... --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 09:09:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AD935M023108 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:09:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AD7V1d096719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AD7Unn052051; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:07:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53004.mail.yahoo.com (web53004.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5AD7RPH051994 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aureliarufinia@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 59930 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2005 13:07:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GWFvLq8R1HxU1f4dEkhrxmdPRQaQCcQT8Slk7nM6aquDq1LaR6fejTTFx6+Ilzpp8HERQIqmt3G9RMG5WHOYcaQiGNLVhhJwJfXqn2Nlg6UOb48/mHFsessfZ4Iye5bU6AwpG+i0sA6cgCSfleWe67JOnY5nPkLr3/KmP7JvjrM= ; Message-ID: <20050610130722.59928.qmail@web53004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.166.50.34] by web53004.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:07:22 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 06:07:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Aurelia Rufinia To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506100130.j5A1UTb1047892@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hope isn't bad- I've done some side by sides with the statues he drew from, and he's pretty accurate. That said, it's better to just go to the source if possible. Mostly I do Roman, so I go from art books and the like. _The World of Roman Costume_ is really quite good for history, but I'm not very impressed with their reconstruction techniques. As far as Byzantine goes, I've done two, and one was based off of the Theodora mosaic at Ravenna. There isn't a lot on early Byzantine clothing at all, and less if you're not dressing like Royalty or a saint. What time period of PByzantine are you looking at, specifically? Aurelia > > Does anyone know if these two books are worth the > paper they're printed on? > > Costumes of the Greeks and Romans by Thomas Hope > Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume by Mary G. > Houston > > I'm looking for early Byzantine specifically, but > I'll settle for late Roman or what they call > "romanesque" if that's all I can get. I can't figure > out why there are so many Byzantine personas in my > local SCA group when I can't find ANY decent > reference material on them. I'm starting to think > it's just an excuse to sew on forty pounds' worth of > beads. > > Other suggestions of books on the period would be > welcome, too. > > Thanks, guys. > Tea Rose > > Baroness Aurelia Rufinia House Iron Maiden, Barony of Carolingia, East Kingdom, Northshield Ex-Pat "We're always fascinated when we find leg irons with no legs in them. Who held the keys, sir?" __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 10:06:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AE6rJW023546 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:06:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AE5trI002861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:05:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AE5oS2081960; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AE5lXd081866 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.12]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050610140539.PUTN190.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:05:39 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050610064356.0306a7e0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:04:58 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume In-Reply-To: <200506100742.j5A7gu7c012158@net.indra.com> References: <200506100742.j5A7gu7c012158@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Muthenius concentrates on early silk textiles.. I haven't seen anything by her on costume, per se. All I have is her collected papers: "Studies in Byzantine and Islamic Silk Weaving". As Carolyn said, the cut of Byzantine is quite simple, but the jewelry was most distinctive. I've been looking for a really good book on the jewelry. Any suggestions? You may want to check out: Women in Purple : Rulers of Medieval Byzantium by Judith Herrin. 320p (Orion 2001) ISBN 184212529X. Paperback DBBC $4.98 This is mostly bio and history but has a few illustrations. Beth At 02:42 AM 6/10/2005, you wrote: >No wait, I take that back. I have heard of a scholar called Anna Muthenius >(or something like that) who supposedly has written the definitive studies of >Byzantine textiles, but the only copies I've ever seen of her works were on >used book sites and going for over $250 apiece. That's probably outside your >budget (I know it's outside of mine) but if you track down the titles you can >take a shot at getting them through interlibrary loan. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 11:17:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AFHmND024364 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AFGH3N009756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:16:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFGBT4026629; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:16:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from walrus.boinkor.net (walrus.boinkor.net [62.116.124.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFG3Xu026540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from v@bruin.at) Received: from beaver.boinkor.net ([213.235.219.107] ident=bruin) by walrus.boinkor.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.43 (FreeBSD)) id 1DglEj-0008J3-Q7 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:15:57 +0200 Message-ID: <42A9AEAB.1000604@bruin.at> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:15:55 +0200 From: Veronika Liewald User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050331) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200506100131.j5A1UTb2047892@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200506100131.j5A1UTb2047892@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: bustle or natural form era movies X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > >But I couldn't think of a movie set in >the 1870s-80s. Can anybody else think of one? > Hi! Another wonderful movie would be "Anna Karenina" by Bernard Rose with Sophie Marceau as Anna. Here are some pictures: http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/greeneggsandham/anna.html Veronika _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 11:22:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AFMwRY024436 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:22:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AFMJE4010564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:22:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFMIJp030708; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFMCXM030558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFM6Pl058792 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:22:06 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:22:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <64422.165.236.184.195.1118416926.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <000101c56d8f$72574500$74d8f5dc@e9q5h8> References: <3013B599-D8E1-11D9-B75B-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> <000101c56d8f$72574500$74d8f5dc@e9q5h8> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:22:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pattern company links was re: New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is a page that I have had bookmarked for years now .... http://sewing.patternreview.com/cgi-bin/companylist.pl it always has a good listing of urls of pattern companies, all of them! Chiara On Thu, June 9, 2005 8:53 pm, Elizabeth Walpole said: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aylwen & John" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:22 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out > > >> Where can you buy this pattern online? I can't find it for sale >> online >> anywhere. >> Aylwen (who wants to make one for herself!) >> > I thought Simplicity sold them through their website? or is that > just the 3 > McCall's companies? Emailing Simplicity would be a good start, just > tell > them you need it now and it isn't going to arrive in Australia for a > while. > When you do buy it let me know I'm very tempted to try it out (I > like the > skirt especially, though I could probably improvise that without a > pattern) > and I'd like to have a look at the instructions sheet for more > information. > Elizabeth (2 essays down 3 to go) > -------------------------------------------- > Elizabeth Walpole > Canberra Australia > ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au > http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Franchesca Havas ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 11:23:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AFNrfq024470 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:23:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AFN8bO010706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFN7tr031315; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFN19Z031168 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:23:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 18so182822nzp for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:22:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oxXXyW6lxrdbAbu5zLSm2o1y3ZmBhrYhawRdGG/oqLmb+qXnPpLgKIULFar1Yh0uL84oih+0NIbDf7G7CcsSQ1Jbo7kkYD1jFRaO2nT20EAZnq57INU0x7QG84toVDnImM6qEBr7i4uN+YpA1x/PM+lpQP/drnFmowtgh+WgXEQ= Received: by 10.36.115.15 with SMTP id n15mr416655nzc; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:22:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc805061008222bef2f8b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:22:55 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bustle or natural form era movies In-Reply-To: <42A9AEAB.1000604@bruin.at> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200506100131.j5A1UTb2047892@net.indra.com> <42A9AEAB.1000604@bruin.at> X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5AFN19Z031168 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd also like to suggest the Forsythe Saga (new version) with Gina McKee. The clothing is simply AMAZING. Bice On 6/10/05, Veronika Liewald wrote: > > > > > >But I couldn't think of a movie set in > >the 1870s-80s. Can anybody else think of one? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 11:40:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AFecUT024746 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:40:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AFdJoV012792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:39:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFdHas042565; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:39:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.52]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5AFd8ZA042361 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 93521 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jun 2005 15:39:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=erTFzsWcga/OwbFB7b5yCO1lMX0OtNhVF/gPqODkXF7PPyCWxYWdbGIwt+6LZkpwGflE6FZHwDOzuKOdCngXr7YvX8I+IDE/xwg0n13BreGCS3eAmBwGgUexk9XKYuVJeO5WiiF1HY4gWyk9Fal9BMxjIzc/CFchJyjZqlvtzNI= ; Message-ID: <20050610153903.93515.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.19.8] by web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:39:03 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:39:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Galadriel of Lothlorien To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Natural Form X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made my sister's wedding dress in this era. I absolutely love this period! For pics of how it turned out, see here: http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressFront.jpg http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressBack.jpg http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressSide.jpg Go easy on me. There's a lot of talent on this board and I'm kind of intimidated. ;) I'm rather proud of how the front of the bodice turned out but of COURSE I wasn't able to be there on her wedding day to tell her to "Put the BLASTED BOUQUET DOWN so we can get a good shot of the bodice!" D'oh! Such is life. As for movies, my favorite costume movie for this era has to be the Sean Bean/Sophie Marceau version of Anna Karenina. The problem with this movie is it's supposed to take place over a certain period of time but the fasions never change, which is a HUGE no-no for this era because it changed so rapidly over the course of a decade. But the good news is that means we get a LOT of the natural form costumes to oggle at! Huzzah! And I guess I'm definitely not trendy then because I LOVE bustles (made my own wedding dress with one, in fact...) ;) Three cheers for big bottoms! ;) "Is there any hope, Gandalf? . . . For Frodo and Sam?" "There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope." --Pippin and Gandalf, RETURN OF THE KING __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 11:46:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AFk9GW024777 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:46:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AFjEEB013582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:45:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFj4pv047276; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:45:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from atlas.concentric.com (atlas.concentric.com [207.155.252.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFiAiG046492 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:44:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by atlas.concentric.com id LAA06381; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:44:10 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506101544.LAA06381@atlas.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:44:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506100130.j5A1UTb1047892@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5AFiAiG046492 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] new belly styles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you seen "Monster-in-Law"? Jennifer Lopez wears that when she's walking the dogs. I thought it was a good idea. I slipped on jeans under my work dress last night to add some warmth and dress down a work outfit. I don't know about grunge. Wouldn't the jeans have to be ripped? And speaking of ripped, can someone explain to me the prices they're getting for brand new jeans in the stores that I would make my kids throw in the trash?!! Oh, and I'm double the twenty-something...;-) Julie ---- wrote: > Another trend I'm seeing is for gals to wear a skirt and a pair of > 'pants' under it. Today I saw a young lady wearing a micro-mini black > knit ruffled skirt over a pair of raggedy well worn flared jeans. > > Is this the new grunge? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 11:50:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AFosf7024809 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:50:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AFo0hg014170 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:50:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFnxEK050734; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AFnt7s050641 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:49:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7650B3C6C3 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:03:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42A9B6B0.4040201@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:50:08 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: bustle or natural form era movies References: <200506100131.j5A1UTb2047892@net.indra.com> <42A9AEAB.1000604@bruin.at> <4c5accc805061008222bef2f8b@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4c5accc805061008222bef2f8b@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Portrait of a Lady", most recently with Nicole Kidman in 1996. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 12:14:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AGESbA024928 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:14:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AGDbHd016744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:13:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGDZFN067716; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGDVRD067591 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.d8.27b0a47a (4206) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:13:22 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:13:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Natural Form To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very beautiful! I too love this period but have never made a gown from the 1870s.....or the 1880s for that matter. Anyone doing a Ibsen play? I'm not busy now...... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 12:36:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AGawZA025041 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AGZg4b019635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:35:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGZc5G084610; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGZXuv084547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:35:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-69.sonic.net [209.148.114.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGZVrJ016937 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:35:32 -0700 Message-ID: <42A9C15E.7010201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:35:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Natural Form References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now that I think of it, there's a great film of Ibsen's _A Doll's House_ with natural form era costumes. Not the one with Jane Fonda, but the one with Claire Bloom as Nora. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >Very beautiful! > >I too love this period but have never made a gown from the 1870s.....or the >1880s for that matter. >Anyone doing a Ibsen play? I'm not busy now...... > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 12:37:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AGbifO025045 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:37:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AGb3ce019835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:37:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGb279085655; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGavvo085513 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:36:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc75.asp.att.net[204.127.197.157]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005061016365101400jkpg6e>; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:36:51 +0000 Received: from [207.230.140.240] by 204.127.197.111; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:36:50 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:36:50 +0000 Message-Id: <061020051636.2936.42A9C1A200013B2E00000B782206424613969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not familiar with Hope, but I'd recommend *not* using Houston. I can direct you to some near-primary sources, but the books are at home in Denver, and I'm in Wichita. I'll be happy to list citations (if others haven't already) later this weekend. There are some on-line resources as well, but most of them follow Houston, and therefor aren't so great. The SCA-Byzantine list on Yahoo! Groups has some good resources; sign up to the list to access them. If you want to do Middle Period, Tim Dawson's Levanita website is great. I don't have the URL handy, but if you Google it, it'll come right up. Eirene -------------- Original message -------------- > Does anyone know if these two books are worth the paper they're printed on? > > Costumes of the Greeks and Romans by Thomas Hope > Ancient Greek, Roman & Byzantine Costume by Mary G. Houston > > I'm looking for early Byzantine specifically, but I'll settle for late Roman or > what they call "romanesque" if that's all I can get. I can't figure out why > there are so many Byzantine personas in my local SCA group when I can't find ANY > decent reference material on them. I'm starting to think it's just an excuse to > sew on forty pounds' worth of beads. > > Other suggestions of books on the period would be welcome, too. > > Thanks, guys. > Tea Rose > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 12:44:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AGiABc025089 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:44:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AGhJgA020887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGhHnr090081; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:43:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGhCv9090009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:43:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-69.sonic.net [209.148.114.69]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGhAoJ005603 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:43:11 -0700 Message-ID: <42A9C32A.90203@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:43:22 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Natural Form References: <42A9C15E.7010201@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <42A9C15E.7010201@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is, I think they were natural form rather than bustle era, it's been a while since I saw the film . . . but I remember I really liked the film. Fran Lavolta Press wrote: > Now that I think of it, there's a great film of Ibsen's _A Doll's > House_ with natural form era costumes. Not the one with Jane Fonda, > but the one with Claire Bloom as Nora. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 12:46:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AGkftc025103 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:46:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AGjUDw022209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:45:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGjCuB091489; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:45:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGipkm091216 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:45:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1f7.b8b03af (15700) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:44:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R40 (fwm-r40.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.144]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID52-3d5442a9c372362; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:44:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:44:34 -0400 Message-Id: <8C73BF2D1272D42-63C-8D84@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:44:34 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.144 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Cathy, that's exactly the information I needed. I'll get the Houston book. I already have an SCA pamphlet, but it assumes that you know the difference between a dalmatica and a palla before you start. Regarding Romanesque: I guess I was getting the term from a costuming book, I think it's Holkeboer, who calls the period immediately after Roman withdrawal "Romanesque." Your delineation of the general periods for Roman, Byzantine and Romanesque will help, too. I think part of my problem has been not really knowing which century I was talking about. Saying "Byzantine" is like saying "English," or "Russian;" it covers a huge period of time. Yet nobody seems to distinguish between early Byzantine and late Byzantine. Surely their costume changed over a period of more than a thousand years? Textile technology must have changed drastically in that amount of time. I think most of the extant images are of their court dress, which might have stayed the same, but probably wasn't what people actually wore. And you're right about the SCA Byzantines being interested in beading and needlework. One of them was introduced to me as "Amanda Do-Not-Look-Directly-Into-The-Dress," because of the quantity of pearls and glass beads she was sporting. Also there seems to be some kind of local obsession with very early cultures, sometimes even outside the official SCA period. We have some great-looking Vikings, though. :) Melody -- wow, that is a good price! I'll definitely check that out. Thanks! Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 12:52:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AGqX4i025142 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:52:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AGpdfx023118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGpUxc096158; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:51:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGoXg2095495 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:51:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.215.2983c9e (15700) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R40 (fwm-r40.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.144]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID52-3d5442a9c4cf26b; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:50:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:50:23 -0400 Message-Id: <8C73BF3A0F7E606-63C-8E00@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:50:22 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.144 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1074; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pride and Prejudice redheads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember reading somewhere that superstitious people considered it bad luck to see a redhead in every part of the world where the Vikings had made a nuisance of themselves. The explanation seems a little pat to me, though, especially since I think of Vikings as being blonde. Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 14:38:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AIc2Wl026267 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:38:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AIb26g037871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIavY9077749; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:36:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIasTv077644 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.116 ([204.127.197.116]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005061018364901400jm9ate>; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:36:49 +0000 Received: from [128.95.14.45] by 204.127.197.116; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:36:47 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] new belly styles Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:36:47 +0000 Message-Id: <061020051836.6432.42A9DDBF00034BBC0000192022007348300809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't seen MiL. I imagine that's what the fashion is imulating, I guess. The gal I saw was *definitely* wearing well worn, ripped jeans with her little skirt. And a t-shirt. The ripped, torn and faded jeans have been around for a while now...but I don't know how long. It was just too wierd to see it with the cutsey little skirt. At least her underwear was not showing! I used to wear leggings under my skirts back when I had a problem with keep ing warm. Now that I'm -ahem- older, I don't seem to have that problem anymore. I seem to need to layer my outfits for the sudden warmth. I used to wear dresses more than separates, but now my wardrobe consists of separates that can be worn in layers. My favorites are the sleeveless 'shell' blouse and a mid-knee aline skirt, that I can wear a sweater or nice jacket with. Think of the outfits Jackie Kennedy Onassis used to wear, and you'll get an idea. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Have you seen "Monster-in-Law"? Jennifer Lopez wears that when she's walking > the dogs. I thought it was a good idea. I slipped on jeans under my work dress > last night to add some warmth and dress down a work outfit. I don't know about > grunge. Wouldn't the jeans have to be ripped? > > And speaking of ripped, can someone explain to me the prices they're getting for > brand new jeans in the stores that I would make my kids throw in the trash?!! > > Oh, and I'm double the twenty-something...;-) > > Julie > > ---- wrote: > > Another trend I'm seeing is for gals to wear a skirt and a pair of > > 'pants' under it. Today I saw a young lady wearing a micro-mini black > > knit ruffled skirt over a pair of raggedy well worn flared jeans. > > > > Is this the new grunge? > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 14:39:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AIdXEF026278 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:39:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AIctkw038045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:38:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIctTW079146; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:38:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIcqqo079039 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:38:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.116 ([204.127.197.116]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <200506101838460150031jj4e>; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:38:46 +0000 Received: from [128.95.14.45] by 204.127.197.116; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:38:45 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Natural Form Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:38:45 +0000 Message-Id: <061020051838.9345.42A9DE3500008D620000248122007348300809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *gorgeous*! Now I want to make one. What pattern did you use? I think this is just something I'd want to wear to the opera or symphony...just to be dressy! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I made my sister's wedding dress in this era. I > absolutely love this period! For pics of how it > turned out, see here: > > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressFront.jpg > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressBack.jpg > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressSide.jpg > > Go easy on me. There's a lot of talent on this board > and I'm kind of intimidated. ;) I'm rather proud of > how the front of the bodice turned out but of COURSE I > wasn't able to be there on her wedding day to tell her > to "Put the BLASTED BOUQUET DOWN so we can get a good > shot of the bodice!" D'oh! > > Such is life. > > As for movies, my favorite costume movie for this era > has to be the Sean Bean/Sophie Marceau version of Anna > Karenina. The problem with this movie is it's > supposed to take place over a certain period of time > but the fasions never change, which is a HUGE no-no > for this era because it changed so rapidly over the > course of a decade. But the good news is that means > we get a LOT of the natural form costumes to oggle at! > Huzzah! > > And I guess I'm definitely not trendy then because I > LOVE bustles (made my own wedding dress with one, in > fact...) ;) Three cheers for big bottoms! > > ;) > > > "Is there any hope, Gandalf? . . . For Frodo and Sam?" > "There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope." > > --Pippin and Gandalf, RETURN OF THE KING > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 14:42:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AIgBb3026311 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:42:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AIfQaq038286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:41:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIfMok080975; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:41:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIfHPV080853 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:41:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.116 ([204.127.197.116]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005061018411201300ft20be>; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:41:12 +0000 Received: from [128.95.14.45] by 204.127.197.116; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:41:10 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 392 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:41:10 +0000 Message-Id: <061020051841.13966.42A9DEC6000BED000000368E22007348300809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL!!! You lucky gal...you go girl!! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Us rredheads ain nothing but trouble..says my mom well actually a lot of > Mischief and a whole lot of fun....Says I! From one who had the kind of rich > Copper gold red hair that you can pick out in a crowd of redheads.... > > Satine teh Sassy redhead... > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 14:58:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AIwElI026404 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:58:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AIvPJB039748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:57:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIvML5092415; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:57:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AIvGl2092337 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Dgogt-000GBL-7o for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:57:15 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:55:41 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice References: <77.472ca408.2fd9bd42@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <77.472ca408.2fd9bd42@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote >In a message dated 6/8/2005 10:31:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, >elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net writes: > >> Yes, the bright copper and reddish brown are what I was referring to. >> I would not call strawberry blonde a bright red... >> >> > >And of course these are huge generalities. It may be that in, say, Greece or >Italy where dark hair is prominent, bright copper red would have the men >flocking to admire its exotic beauty. But we're talking England, so >such a color >may be looked down upon as too Irish or Scottish...horrors! Usually comes with freckles, too, which were definitely not the thing! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 15:05:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AJ5j4J026433 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:05:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AJ4vKG040633 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJ4v9p098399; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:04:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJ4ri0098336 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:04:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be84.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.132]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 232FC47FE7F for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:04:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000901c56def$4fb88030$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:05:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] natural form X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, That weddingdress you made was gorgeous, i really love the simplissity of it, and yeat so full of details. Congratulations, what a shame you could not attend to the weding. Your sister must love you very much! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 15:11:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AJBWim026470 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:11:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AJAp2W041370 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:10:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJAoXN003251; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:10:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGAKLi065525 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:10:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.114.239.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.114.239]) by pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Dgm5L-0004SM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:10:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:10:13 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: New Martha McCain Simplicity Pattern out X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I get the digest, so this may have been answered... The pattern is currently available. One place to buy on-line is http://www.sewingpatterns.com I didn't see a link for Simplicity (could just be my bad eyes), so i put Simplicity 4510 in the search box and it turns up. I have never purchased anything from this site, so i don't know how quickly they deliver. Anahita _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 15:12:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AJCQjn026474 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:12:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AJBfGb041479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:11:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJBfSu003872; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:11:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AGU42W080103 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:30:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so543655nzn for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=qQTVqfpBtv4tRsH/UGHmMyg4w+IKCyTV0TtravA6wvGWwhnhf0UbPW3AguC8gFNteoNX9+a5A49dsPmiKQsj67Cc5Iy6EGTGsG+shU/LS+vmYe6g2SyqYCn7fcf1vayBAet52K84u2ea6o9xlfrpZsqsU/1H52blHHQJk+lHctI= Received: by 10.36.19.10 with SMTP id 10mr1334066nzs; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:29:58 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/922/Fri Jun 10 07:58:19 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5AGU42W080103 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Another trend I'm seeing is for gals to wear a skirt and a pair of 'pants' under it. >Today I saw a young lady wearing a micro-mini black knit ruffled skirt over a pair of >raggedy well worn flared jeans. >Is this the new grunge? Nyah, it's one of the variations on Japanese schoolgirl. Usually it's a frilly or ruffled or eyelet or lacey skirt, about knee length, over those jeans with the o-so-artificial "faded" spots in perfect oblongs on thigh & shin. It's was just starting to come into fashion as we were leaving Tokyo in early 2002. Given the lag of films & shows coming over here, it's about time for the fashion to creep in. Near Cupertino CA (very Asian neighborhoods), it's been around for awhile. The micromini over pants must be a Western variation? --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 15:25:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AJPuBY026574 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:25:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AJP9xN043350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:25:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJP7MC013982; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJP3Rl013939 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:25:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be84.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.132]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id E310947FEA7 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:24:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002701c56df2$1f2d41a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:25:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] embroidered waistcoat. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I hope not that my post gets a pestilense to you all because i want to show you things all the time. But this time i would like to show you a new watercolour design i have made for an embroiderd waistcoat for myself. I want to start this projekt to take with me to the 1700 fair where i am going to demonstrate 18th century embroidery. Mind you the bigger picture is large, because i want to show the details. Also if you click on the chenille stumpwork dress, i have finished the embroidery of the right overskirt. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/herreveste..htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 15:56:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AJunNI026755 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:56:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AJtdBb047481 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:55:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJtawv037077; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:55:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJtVwP037022 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id PAA06520; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:55:31 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506101955.PAA06520@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:55:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5AJtVwP037022 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's a wonderful site with LOTS of period beading. http://www.medievalbeads.com/ Julie ---- wrote: It's a lot easier to sew beads on > a dalmatic (wide sleeved Byzantine style of tunic) than it is to fit a proper > Tudor or Elizabethan gown, but you can go as crazy decorating the Byzantine > if you wish. > > > > I'm starting to > > think it's just an excuse to sew on forty pounds' worth of beads. > > Yes, you could be right. See above. Are the Byzantines in your group > enthusiastic embroiderers and/or beaders outside of SCA activities? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 15:57:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AJvLHV026760 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:57:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AJuewY047595 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:56:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJue8K037920; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:56:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-9.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-9.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AJuaxk037818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:56:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-9.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5AJuQ75031424 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:56:26 -0500 Message-ID: <42A9F07E.30408@wideopenwest.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:56:46 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered waistcoat. References: <002701c56df2$1f2d41a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <002701c56df2$1f2d41a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, your work is so breathtaking you could never send us too many pictures! You're a constant source of inspiration. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 16:26:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AKQ4Eg026953 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:26:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AKPH0v050935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:25:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AKPALC058543; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:25:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AKP5bh058477 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:25:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27153 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:25:02 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:23:34 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice Thread-Index: AcVt7jnS94RFkKBWQLyGsqMaKDPeBwACvbAg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5AKP5bh058477 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Despite the preponderance of redhaired heroines in modern romance novels set in historic times, who mostly seem wonderously free of freckles and sunburn despite running around without the proper proper protection from the sum(ie headgear, masks, gloves, fichus, whatever), red-haired ladies and gentleman were rather rare, save in the back of beyond Ireland or Scotland, unless there were some Viking DNA in the local gene pool. At the least, red hair held the meaning of being of quick temper, and was still traditionally held to have been the color of Judas's hair(whether true or not, and how did they know), so in Christian Europe, red hair was not a desired color and was usually described as anything but red. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jean Waddie Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 1:56 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pride and Prejudice AlbertCat@aol.com wrote >In a message dated 6/8/2005 10:31:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, >elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net writes: > >> Yes, the bright copper and reddish brown are what I was referring to. >> I would not call strawberry blonde a bright red... >> >> > >And of course these are huge generalities. It may be that in, say, >Greece or Italy where dark hair is prominent, bright copper red would >have the men flocking to admire its exotic beauty. But we're talking >England, so such a color may be looked down upon as too Irish or >Scottish...horrors! Usually comes with freckles, too, which were definitely not the thing! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 16:57:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5AKvo3x028178 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:57:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5AKv3pt064376 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AKuwjJ081818; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:56:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vienna (pool-70-22-244-164.bos.east.verizon.net [70.22.244.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5AKuqHC081700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cedar@interlog.com) Received: from cedar by vienna with local (Exim 4.43) id 1DgqYY-0005BZ-Un for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:56:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:56:46 -0400 From: Christine Robb To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants Message-ID: <20050610205646.GV15563@vienna> Mail-Followup-To: Christine Robb , Historical Costume References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 09:29:58AM -0700, Cin wrote: > It's was just starting to come into fashion as we were leaving Tokyo > in early 2002. Given the lag of films & shows coming over here, it's > about time for the fashion to creep in. Near Cupertino CA (very Asian > neighborhoods), it's been around for awhile. > The micromini over pants must be a Western variation? The mini length, usually of an A-line skirt style, has been around the New England contra dance scene for a number of years now, usually amongst the younger crowd, but some 40+ women wear it too. Christine --- Toronto English Country Dancers present A Weekend with Joseph Pimentel, June 17-19, 2005 http://www.interlog.com/cedar _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 17:25:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ALPh3T028459 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:25:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ALMbBK070784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:22:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ALMZ5B000621; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:22:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ALMWOF000557 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:22:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from sheryl.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-110-126.kc.res.rr.com [65.30.110.126]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j5AL6xwL015477 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:07:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050610162725.00a0f590@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:29:03 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered waistcoat. In-Reply-To: <002701c56df2$1f2d41a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:25 PM 6/10/05 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >I hope not that my post gets a pestilense to you all because i want to >show you things all the time. Are you kidding?!? Bjarne, your work is so fine that we just love looking (and drooling)! I especially love all of the pictures you take at various stages so that we can see the process as each item develops. Sheryl N-D _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 17:26:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ALQbmI028488 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:26:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ALOZBY070965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ALOZSa001985; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ALOTRp001923 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:24:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sherylnd@kc.rr.com) Received: from sheryl.kc.rr.com (CPE-65-30-110-126.kc.res.rr.com [65.30.110.126]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j5ALOOgw028804 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:24:27 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050610163006.00a10a70@pop-server.kc.rr.com> X-Sender: sherylnd@pop-server.kc.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 16:31:02 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Sheryl Nance-Durst Subject: Re: [h-cost] Natural Form In-Reply-To: <20050610153903.93515.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh my gosh!!! I want, I want, I want! Sheryl N-D At 08:39 AM 6/10/05 -0700, you wrote: >I made my sister's wedding dress in this era. I >absolutely love this period! For pics of how it >turned out, see here: > >http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressFront.jpg >http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressBack.jpg >http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressSide.jpg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 17:55:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ALtftv028705 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ALso40075192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ALslEt023337; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:54:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav6.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ALsgbY023170 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 15:54:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:54:36 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.208 by BAY106-DAV6.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:54:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.208] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> <8C73BF2D1272D42-63C-8D84@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:53:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:53:31 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jun 2005 21:54:36.0706 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE68B020:01C56E06] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j5ALtftv028705 Status: RO A couple book recommendations: Byzantine Women and Their World by Ioli Kalavrezou This is quite recent, just coming out 2 years ago, and I recall there being a fair number of pictures. I think it was part of a catalog for an exhibit at the Met. Byzantium: Faith and Power by Helen Evans This came out after the one above but had something to do with the same exhibit. This one is a big coffee table picture book (and priced accordingly) but worth it if this is your area of interest. Byzantine Fashions by Tom Tierney This is supposed to be a coloring book (for which use it is fairly inappropriate) but instead think of it as a cheap collection of clear line drawings showing different outfits throughout the Byzantine period. No documentation is given, but the captions usually give color information and identify the century and class of people pictured. For Fro $3.95, it's a deal. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 22:24:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B2OJTN030602 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B2NB6c004311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:23:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B2N3VY063706; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B2MxjT063669 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:23:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050611022255.PHEX23759.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:55 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.153.105.112]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050611022255.RGJJ7985.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:55 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.323 [267.6.7]); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:58 +1200 Message-ID: <010401c56e2c$7bb6c880$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050609.213821.-7434051.0.penhalion@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redheads Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:57 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Of course, Elizabeth didn't actually have red hair. She had a reddish > blonde that was the same as her father's.....and I don't believe that > anyone ever accused either Henry VII or Elizabeth of York of being > profligate....later in her reign she often wore wigs of a less subtle > color. For her true hair color, see the portrait of her attributed to > Scrots where she is an adolescent girl- it's closer to gold than > red.....not that there's anything wrong with red hair, it's just a common > misconception that Elizabeth had red hair and it makes me cranky when > people attempt to cast aspersion on her without really knowing anything > about her or her time. (That's not you, it's the author of whatever it > was you read.....) Technically that's still red;) The red colour is coded by a different set of genes than the ones that determine how dark your hair is. Once you have that working, you are a redhead no matter how pale it is. I do have to ask why is it saying she has red hair casting aspersions on her? Or is it that the authors trot out the old myths about hair colour? Michaela de bruce born with carrot orange fuzz on my head that became bright golden blonde and is now back to almost carrot orange again. That is when you can see my natural har colour as I put rinses though it regularly for costuming;) Mind you some people still call it blonde and when my hair was gold, there were some who didn't want to call it blonde.... very odd. http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.7 - Release Date: 10/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 22:49:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B2nhkp030758 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:49:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B2mxpL006319 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B2mwI5074870; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:48:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B2mtgn074836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-222-116-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.116]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5B2mpCq004803 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:48:53 +1000 Message-ID: <000301c56e2f$ef895400$74def5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000001c56d46$940326e0$4cdff5dc@e9q5h8> <005201c56d5f$58e15410$ab159b04@HELENPINTO> Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:41:19 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies > It's not a movie, but an HBO series which just wrapped its second season - > "Deadwood". There are a lot of female characters, of several classes, some > of whom are recently arrived from back east, and therefore fashionably > dressed. If the series is not running in Australia, you can go to the > website - > http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category0_show1 where > you can see lots of pictures. If you click on "behind the scenes", you can > access a special feature with the costume designer. The series is not running in Australia, but I had a look at that site when it was posted on one of my lists a few weeks ago. My problem was that I was trying to explain the look of the natural form era to a non costumer (just in casual conversation, she asked me what I was working on & I commented that I had been distracted from my usual period by natural form era fashion plates) and I couldn't think of an example to give her a mental picture, I came up with a vague description of the basic ideas (long bodices, fitted skirts, lots of draperies pulled to the back which end in a train) but I usually try to give an example that I know a non costumer will be relatively familiar with (e.g. if I'm talking about Regency I say 'Jane Austen era' because people don't understand what Regency fashion means). Thanks to everyone who suggested movies, I know what the era looks like and there's plenty of fashion plates and photos of extant garments online (though movies are fun they are inspiration not documentation). I was just wondering if there was something I could have referred her to. I think "Age of Innocence" might be the best candidate as a mainstream film set in the 1880s. I haven't seen it (I was 10 in 1993 so I probably couldn't have seen it anyway) but based on the stills from the movie I've seen online (though they weren't great costume shots) I think it was the beginning of the 2nd bustle period? Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 23:08:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B37sl5030892 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:07:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B37Dpi008029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:07:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B37B0p083252; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:07:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5B378PA083160 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:07:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLWXLUABMZ84S for (sender ); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:06:58 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn77RP/o+uW43hES+LsFmMvGujGs3j+xPAzQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KU7CVFN5; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:06:41 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:59:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redheads Message-ID: <20050610.215924.-7434051.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-7,12-17 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 5:2:1583673157 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:57 +1200 "michaela" writes: > I do have to ask why is it saying she has red hair casting > aspersions on > her? Or is it that the authors trot out the old myths about hair > colour? It was trotting out the old myths that pisses me off. As folks can probably tell, I'm kinda into her as a historical personality and it just makes me cranky that people tend to fling manure towards her in a way that I seldom see done to any other ruler. I mean I never hear anyone making those kind of catty comments about Queen Anne I........ Karen Seamstrix (who's parents fully expected her to be a red-head but who managed to confound them.....) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 23:16:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B3GHvY030933 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B3FXII008777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:15:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B3FWId086999; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5B3FV4U086957 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:15:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 86399 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2005 03:15:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=48bVMziNswOBxNEAXrUalIQsw+FzcGvM6RkRGXOarn8BicGFnzUtWaQ0LMD/tK8hx8+CYgSFgArkT2fE2ia7tJVmoGNgXKjbbOlDnJD5HvNwHHjIl7h9HzqG2dVX3gQ5CbiuZepnud1yJlwy6L1PG/H0GNj4BI/KoApFXAPto3E= ; Message-ID: <20050611031525.86397.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.74] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:15:25 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:15:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506110249.j5B2n13X074885@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 395 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is Kiinda wierd when my husband oggles over any new Spots as he calls freckles that I get just from being outside at dusk..... Its awlful I do not tan I Lobster or Spot..... Grizel aka Jen Seagrest from Medieval beads is an amazing beader, and Mentos as well as a wonderful woman and friend! you want to know beads she knows beads!!!!!! S --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 23:17:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B3HmBL030942 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B3H6Nw008899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:17:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B3H5bj087719; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:17:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B3H4Ev087677 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:17:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so1129155nzp for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=nVkCv+Q4KSyKru+JSnpXpMRF/h10dNuADDFsZPw48Vlbi/Xaut/NB2lkv7quM3qcdy6DzBzq4qS4+qLX2S9nxBSfTfZf9torN5CyVBAzrJJOlNlfDMfRAqHqjl0L2SJDenB0dvAkz1SjaRlVyzAE638F7oOl96tsYlNjnHMN7xg= Received: by 10.36.106.17 with SMTP id e17mr1581159nzc; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:16:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc8050610201626bd74b3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:16:53 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redheads In-Reply-To: <20050610.215924.-7434051.0.penhalion@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050610.215924.-7434051.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5B3H4Ev087677 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO People made many catty comments about Anne I. The whole Queen Anne is dead thing could not have been flattering to an old gout ridden woman who knew people were waiting for her to die. She also had the advantage of a husband. (dolt as he was) An unmarried ruling woman is suspect, hence the reason Mary of Scotland jumped into bad marriage bed two and three. Anne had her own crosses to bear. Being called stupid and too much into Sarah Churchill was the least of the accusations. B~ On 6/10/05, Karen R Bergquist wrote: > It was trotting out the old myths that pisses me off. As folks can > probably tell, I'm kinda into her as a historical personality and it just > makes me cranky that people tend to fling manure towards her in a way > that I seldom see done to any other ruler. I mean I never hear anyone > making those kind of catty comments about Queen Anne I........ > > > Karen > Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 10 23:34:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B3YKJw030984 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:34:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B3XSMc010142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:33:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B3XQgK094504; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:33:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5B3XNmG094425 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:33:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLWY4GA7U2XFJ for (sender ); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:32:22 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn77RP/o+uW43hmEEFL4iSseJb8fqcBR9fdQ== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KU7EANTG; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:31:23 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:24:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Redheads Message-ID: <20050610.222430.-7434051.1.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 16-22,24-35 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 12:6:2808560418 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I'm aware that they weren't kind to Anne during her life- but these days most people (in America) aren't consciously aware she even existed (except maybe for a style of late 19th century house *wink*) and people aren't continually trotting out asinine theories like she was actually a man.....or she had syphilis (perfectly possible actually, all her children were sickly and died young, poor things), or any of the other crackpot theories one hears. The Elizabeth was certainly no saint, but I'd like it if people gave her credit for being clever enough not to make Mary's mistake (talk about your object lesson!) and to make a damn fine job of ruling a difficult country during a difficult time while making minimal mistakes.... all things considered. Instead there seems to be a cottage industry in academia and the popular press to try to diminish her accomplishments by finding reasons why either she didn't do it or she wasn't herself in some way or she had some terrible secret (Who really cares what color her hair was? Does it make a difference?).......She's become a great, big historical punching bag and she's not around to defend herself so history weirdos like me feel like we have to do it. Karen Seamstrix On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:16:53 -0400 Jacqueline Johnson writes: > People made many catty comments about Anne I. The whole Queen Anne is > dead thing could not have been flattering to an old gout ridden > woman > who knew people were waiting for her to die. She also had the > advantage of a husband. (dolt as he was) An unmarried ruling woman > is > suspect, hence the reason Mary of Scotland jumped into bad marriage > bed two and three. Anne had her own crosses to bear. Being called > stupid and too much into Sarah Churchill was the least of the > accusations. > > B~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 00:24:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B4OtXs031155 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:24:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B4Nsk6014097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:23:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4NqP2018281; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:23:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4Nmx9018210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B5iPJp024803 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:44:26 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:23:42 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506100130.j5A1UTb0047892@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20050610062155.0306a660@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050610062155.0306a660@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506110023.42638.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 10 June 2005 7:38 am, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > I was not terribly impressed by Mary G. Houston's.. but it's a bit better > than Norris (I find Norris too unreliable). I'd forgotten that Norris purported to do Greek/Roman/Byzantine. That's probably because it's in his "Ancient" volume which annoyed me so much with its myths and inaccuracies that I got rid of it after reading it. > There's a new book coming out that I've been waiting for: > > Byzantine Dress : Representations of Secular Dress (The New Middle Ages) > by Jennifer L. Ball Hardcover: 256 pages. Palgrave Macmillan (September 15, > 2005) Language: English ISBN: 1403967008 Thank you. This could be very interesting. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 00:27:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B4Rmm2031167 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:27:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B4RAZl014264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:27:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4RAxh019637; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:27:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4R6wI019557 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B5lhOK024870 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:47:43 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:27:00 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506100742.j5A7gu7c012158@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20050610064356.0306a7e0@mail.alltel.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050610064356.0306a7e0@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506110027.00228.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 10 June 2005 10:04 am, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > Muthenius concentrates on early silk textiles.. I haven't seen anything by > her on costume, per se. All I have is her collected papers: "Studies in > Byzantine and Islamic Silk Weaving". As Carolyn said, the cut of Byzantine > is quite simple, but the jewelry was most distinctive. [snip] I haven't seen anything by her on "costume per se" either, but I believe that studies of period textiles is important to getting a handle on a period's costume. As you said above, Byzantine is simply cut. It is the jewelry and, to some extent, the patterns that make it distinctive. And although it may not be possible to find a brocade that is sufficiently close to period designs, period designs can inspire embroidery efforts. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 00:41:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B4fWKW031214 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:41:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B4e7vb015316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:40:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4e5E7025016; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:40:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4e1na024933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:40:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B60YUu025070 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:00:39 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:39:51 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> <8C73BF2D1272D42-63C-8D84@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506110039.51351.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 10 June 2005 5:53 pm, JAMES OGILVIE wrote: [snip] > Byzantine Fashions by Tom Tierney This is supposed to be a coloring book > (for which use it is fairly inappropriate) but instead think of it as a > cheap collection of clear line drawings showing different outfits > throughout the Byzantine period. No documentation is given, but the > captions usually give color information and identify the century and class > of people pictured. For Fro $3.95, it's a deal. Personally, I've grown disenchanted with Tom Tierney. I have some of the other historic costume coloring books he's done for Dover, and where I'm familiar with the source art I notice that he sometimes interprets the original wrongly. For instance, in his "Medieval Fashions" book he shows an image of a woman from one of the calendar images in the Tres Riches Heures du Duc de Berry--the one in the light blue houppelande with a dark blue pattern on it, and a wide hat that looks as though it might be made of dark fur or feathers. She is also wearing a long string of coral colored beads, with a tassel on the end. Tierney interprets the string of beads as the edging of translucent cloak--even though nothing of the kind is indicated in the original. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 00:49:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B4nLFc031258 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:49:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B4mfBu016362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:48:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4me8b028718; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:48:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4ma75028658 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:48:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B69Eog025208 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:09:14 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:48:30 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> <8C73BF2D1272D42-63C-8D84@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C73BF2D1272D42-63C-8D84@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506110048.30697.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 10 June 2005 12:44 pm, tearoses@aol.com wrote: > Thanks Cathy, that's exactly the information I needed. I'll get the Houston > book. I already have an SCA pamphlet, but it assumes that you know the > difference between a dalmatica and a palla before you start. You're welcome. Some of the other list members raised caveats about Houston. The big thing about Houston is that she's one of the few costume-specific sources for Byzantine costume that is pretty generally available. However, as I said, Houston doesn't really do dates and can have errors, so you may want to consider looking for the Jennifer Ball book that Beth Matney mentioned, once it is published. This is the one: Byzantine Dress : Representations of Secular Dress (The New Middle Ages) by Jennifer L. Ball Hardcover: 256 pages. Palgrave Macmillan (September 15, 2005) Language: English ISBN: 1403967008 > Regarding Romanesque: I guess I was getting the term from a costuming book, > I think it's Holkeboer, who calls the period immediately after Roman > withdrawal "Romanesque." Your delineation of the general periods for Roman, > Byzantine and Romanesque will help, too. I think part of my problem has > been not really knowing which century I was talking about. Saying > "Byzantine" is like saying "English," or "Russian;" it covers a huge period > of time. That's right. It's also another reason why tracking down some of the history-oriented books and art books other list members have cited will help you lots. > Yet nobody seems to distinguish between early Byzantine and late > Byzantine. Surely their costume changed over a period of more than a > thousand years? It certainly did. > Textile technology must have changed drastically in that > amount of time. I think most of the extant images are of their court dress, > which might have stayed the same, but probably wasn't what people actually > wore. Court dress changed also. I'm not the best person to talk about details since it's not a primary interest for me, though. > And you're right about the SCA Byzantines being interested in beading and > needlework. One of them was introduced to me as "Amanda > Do-Not-Look-Directly-Into-The-Dress," because of the quantity of pearls and > glass beads she was sporting. Also there seems to be some kind of local > obsession with very early cultures, sometimes even outside the official SCA > period. We have some great-looking Vikings, though. :) Do you? Now that *is* within my period of interest. However, it's not yours, so I'll be quiet now. :-) Good luck! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 00:50:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B4omQW031267 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 00:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B4o5GN016525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:50:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B4o59V029307; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:50:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.52]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5B4o3ei029228 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:50:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 33490 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2005 04:49:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=cPnzgjdo/ZVfVxjwHrlAdHDVZen5J+BdQlRWE0VklU5jeasIANHZpB0JsRNuuqaC0b1vFvDcioRcJqdpt46twvvHodj2OhNYSnZFHqgktwPmGl8AUYdi1YDxOu4R3+g/QIuwSFwAIIvJredShw6eZaRAAORovlW5ddY/D6bztTI= ; Message-ID: <20050611044958.33488.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.82.32] by web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:49:58 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 21:49:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050610205646.GV15563@vienna> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO let's not forget our Punker Boy friends who wear kilts over low rider jeans with engineer boots --- Christine Robb wrote: > On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 09:29:58AM -0700, Cin wrote: > > It's was just starting to come into fashion as we > were leaving Tokyo > > in early 2002. Given the lag of films & shows > coming over here, it's > > about time for the fashion to creep in. Near > Cupertino CA (very Asian > > neighborhoods), it's been around for awhile. > > The micromini over pants must be a Western > variation? > > The mini length, usually of an A-line skirt style, > has been around the > New England contra dance scene for a number of years > now, usually > amongst the younger crowd, but some 40+ women wear > it too. > > > Christine > --- > Toronto English Country Dancers present > A Weekend with Joseph Pimentel, June 17-19, 2005 > http://www.interlog.com/cedar > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 01:22:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B5MhxF031352 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:22:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B5Lgn8018945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B5Lfva040738; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:21:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B5Lbsk040699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B6gEU1025661 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:42:15 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:21:30 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050610130722.59928.qmail@web53004.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050610130722.59928.qmail@web53004.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506110121.30967.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 10 June 2005 9:07 am, Aurelia Rufinia wrote: > Hope isn't bad- I've done some side by sides with the > statues he drew from, and he's pretty accurate. That > said, it's better to just go to the source if > possible. If only because Hope doesn't provide dates for anything. :-) > > Mostly I do Roman, so I go from art books and the > like. _The World of Roman Costume_ is really quite > good for history, but I'm not very impressed with > their reconstruction techniques. It's interesting that you say that. There's a website that shows reconstructions of Roman costume done by Sebesta and other academics as part of a 1988 conference. (Make sure to select "Reproductions of Ancient Costumes" in the box at the top of the page to get the slide show I'm talking about.) Many of their costumes did strike me as unconvincing. Here's where the slideshow starts, if you're curious: http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/slides/selectshow.html However, one thing I have learned from my efforts to make untailored costumes such as peploses and stolas is that the properties of the fabric are the single most important factor to getting the right look. Moreover, finding modern fabrics --even natural fiber fabrics--with the appropriate textural and drape qualities is, IMO, very difficult. How do you do it? What fabrics do you use for your Roman recreations, and how well have they worked for you? I'm curious. Speaking of reconstruction, what do you think of Alexandra Croom's book, "Roman Clothing and Fashion"? I found it more comprehensible than World of Roman Costume in conveying an understanding of how the clothing items were actually worn. In particular, it was the first source I encountered on the subject that made me aware that stolas had shoulder cords which acted as straps. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 01:32:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B5W35m031409 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:32:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B5SkYY019295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:28:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B5SiTh043194; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:28:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B5Sfwg043143 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:28:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.62.56c76713 (4560) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:28:33 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <62.56c76713.2fdbd081@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:28:33 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/10/2005 10:49:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ewalpole@tpg.com.au writes: > I could have referred her to. I think "Age > of Innocence" might be the best candidate as a mainstream film set in the > 1880s. Except that it's mid-1870s.....as is "The Bostonians" which if you haven't seen, you should. By 1883 we're into the big huge late bustle period you see in "Topsy Turvy"....and indeed in "Deadwood" which I would not call set in this "natural" or cuirass bustle. The period you refer to is brief: from like 1875 to 1880 with bits of it appearing a little before and after. For a pre- cuirass bustle film, try "The French Lieutenant's Woman". The spoiled fiancee has some great clothes of a period seen even less in film than cuirass. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 05:25:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5B9PZk0017827 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 05:25:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5B9NSGI033585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 03:23:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B9NLau029702; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 03:23:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5B9NG2h029676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 03:23:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-222-198-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.198]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5B9NEo9028687 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:23:14 +1000 Message-ID: <001801c56e67$04ef36c0$c6def5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050610153903.93515.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Natural Form Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:21:57 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galadriel of Lothlorien" To: Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 1:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] Natural Form > I made my sister's wedding dress in this era. I > absolutely love this period! For pics of how it > turned out, see here: > > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressFront.jpg > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressBack.jpg > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressSide.jpg > > Go easy on me. There's a lot of talent on this board > and I'm kind of intimidated. ;) I'm rather proud of > how the front of the bodice turned out but of COURSE I > wasn't able to be there on her wedding day to tell her > to "Put the BLASTED BOUQUET DOWN so we can get a good > shot of the bodice!" D'oh! > > Such is life. It looks fabulous! I especially like the way you used textures to prevent the all white colour scheme from getting monotonous. The only possible flaw would be the train (though I have seen one photo with a train that lies flat on the ground like that so it is period) I thought the look might be improved with a petticoat like this http://www.fashion-era.com/images/Crinsbustles/pett1873.jpg Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 06:56:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BAugmI000712 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BAt6YH039520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 04:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BAt4Dt065962; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 04:55:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BAt0aG065919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 04:55:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5BAojlR029519 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:50:45 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42AAC302.80308@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:54:58 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tierney/Medieval bead string References: <200506100743.j5A7gu7d012158@net.indra.com> <8C73BF2D1272D42-63C-8D84@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> <200506110039.51351.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200506110039.51351.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: > Personally, I've grown disenchanted with Tom Tierney. I have some of the > other historic costume coloring books he's done for Dover, and where I'm > familiar with the source art I notice that he sometimes interprets the > original wrongly. For instance, in his "Medieval Fashions" book he shows an > image of a woman from one of the calendar images in the Tres Riches Heures du > Duc de Berry--the one in the light blue houppelande with a dark blue pattern > on it, and a wide hat that looks as though it might be made of dark fur or > feathers. She is also wearing a long string of coral colored beads, with a > tassel on the end. Tierney interprets the string of beads as the edging of > translucent cloak--even though nothing of the kind is indicated in the > original. Oh, my! That's ... original. Folks interested in the Tres Riches Heures will find this image very interesting -- a close-up of another draped string of beads (enlargements available via click): http://www.nga.gov/collection/gallery/gg39/gg39-31.0.html Franco-Flemish 15th Century Profile Portrait of a Lady, c. 1410 -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Want to see my Brass Rubbings?" "Mediaevalist on Board" license plate frames at http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 08:39:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BCd0SZ003483 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:39:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BCZSsf061164 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:35:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BCZK5Y006507; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53006.mail.yahoo.com (web53006.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5BCZHC7006474 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aureliarufinia@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 51706 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2005 12:35:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZA9tpkxYdoubnYmLKdOUoxJm7PoWKNt+nBr41zSLl6NEVM9owvg91vqOi6ix1sdz0Wc1uBa4OQMZg3BCSzRwlF8jN2s0+rhxLTdKIaOPejptOqL0QLjdc/nOSnpstjLiww6azzOFin9CnFfVC1TS0uwFZylfYivlq1JihSjBQes= ; Message-ID: <20050611123512.51704.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.163.146.33] by web53006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 05:35:12 PDT Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 05:35:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Aurelia Rufinia To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506111055.j5BAt66g065996@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 396 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:21:30 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine To: Historical Costume Message-ID: <200506110121.30967.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Friday 10 June 2005 9:07 am, Aurelia Rufinia wrote: > Hope isn't bad- I've done some side by sides with the > statues he drew from, and he's pretty accurate. That > said, it's better to just go to the source if > possible. >>If only because Hope doesn't provide dates for >>anything. :-) > He does not, you're right. THere are a few statues that I was pretty sure I know who they were, or at least had a idea of where I'd seen them before. http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/slides/selectshow.html However, one thing I have learned from my efforts to make untailored costumes such as peploses and stolas is that the properties of the fabric are the single most important factor to getting the right look. Moreover, finding modern fabrics --even natural fiber fabrics--with the appropriate textural and drape qualities is, IMO, very difficult. How do you do it? What fabrics do you use for your Roman recreations, and how well have they worked for you? I'm curious. ------------ SInce most of my costumes were made for Pennsic, I use a *lot* of linen. I have a few items made from cotton, (Egyptian cotton, of course. :-) and a decent amount made from wool. It works well for me, as long as my linen is well washed and the wool isn't too heavy. I've found that the bigger isssue when it comes to pallas is figuring out the lenght that you can amange without drowning in it. For me it's about 3 to 3.5 yards. Any more than that and I get frusterated with managing it. -------------- Speaking of reconstruction, what do you think of Alexandra Croom's book, "Roman Clothing and Fashion"? I found it more comprehensible than World of Roman Costume in conveying an understanding of how the clothing items were actually worn. In particular, it was the first source I encountered on the subject that made me aware that stolas had shoulder cords which acted as straps. --------------- I have not seen this book. I have my own theories on stola shoulders.... I pleat mine into straps (Hard ot explain on email) but the World of Roman Costume (I think) also has a close up shot of a stola strap on a statue (try saying that ten times fast) that looks, to me, like it's been pleated into itself. AUrelia Baroness Aurelia Rufinia House Iron Maiden, Barony of Carolingia, East Kingdom, Northshield Ex-Pat "We're always fascinated when we find leg irons with no legs in them. Who held the keys, sir?" __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 10:42:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BEgHZI004141 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:42:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BEclsb070382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:38:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BEcjbV056583; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:38:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BEcgPB056532 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:38:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73BF13C6C3 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:51:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42AAF788.30705@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:39:04 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Into the West X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did anybody else watch the first episode last night? It was a lot better than I was expecting. The story starts around 1830, and I thought they made a good effort on the clothing and sets, although there was only one female closeup very early. Part two looks like it will have more female characters, so costume watching ought to be more interesting. They'll be repeating part one again Saturday and Sunday nights on TNT. (US cable channel) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 10:52:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BEqP7o004176 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:52:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BEpYb0071342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:51:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BEpXki062159; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 08:51:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5BDlDS5035921 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 07:47:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 88007 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jun 2005 13:47:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VyI+XlH9JgspJLnwTjhDSF0sCVw2ei0EsIJf7kAyDyM7tqxPZ1dsLDQl8fSNdWFNZrOb44rGc7kWfshVSIJrCSSqAxlNmocARDn9x345DPAjEFrxdJocFBBt9X2kW7rY2aoAPo8ju+YER+Moxppe3E1D6zkYRbBkL7uFxWf7XH4= ; Message-ID: <20050611134708.88005.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.21.107.109] by web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:47:08 PDT Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 06:47:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered waistcoat. To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002701c56df2$1f2d41a0$4096fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Bjarne NEVER think you send to many e-mails. I, for one, so look forward to seeing what you create and have been inspired on several occasions to 'get my butt moving' on projects I've put off to the side. PLEASE keep sending e-mails and again, thank you for sharing your talent and knowledge. All the Best, Chris G. Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: Hi, I hope not that my post gets a pestilense to you all because i want to show you things all the time. But this time i would like to show you a new watercolour design i have made for an embroiderd waistcoat for myself. --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 11:16:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BFGAb6004336 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:16:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BFDk59073032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BFDjxF071471; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BFDhXd071455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dh7g0-0006Uv-GM; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:13:36 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:13:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20050611101336.kngtovq36jdw0ook@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:13:36 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > On Friday 10 June 2005 12:44 pm, tearoses@aol.com wrote: > > Thanks Cathy, that's exactly the information I needed. I'll get the Houston > > book. I already have an SCA pamphlet, but it assumes that you know the > > difference between a dalmatica and a palla before you start. > > You're welcome. > *snippage* > > Regarding Romanesque: I guess I was getting the term from a costuming book, > > I think it's Holkeboer, who calls the period immediately after Roman > > withdrawal "Romanesque." Your delineation of the general periods for Roman, > > Byzantine and Romanesque will help, too. I think part of my problem has > > been not really knowing which century I was talking about. Saying > > "Byzantine" is like saying "English," or "Russian;" it covers a huge period > > of time. > > That's right. It's also another reason why tracking down some of the > history-oriented books and art books other list members have cited will help > you lots. > OK. It seems I missed the post with the definitions in it. (It will probably show up in my inbox with a huge dump of other things that I haven't realized that I've missed, but ...) could somebody please re-post that message? Thanks! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 11:24:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BFONFF004372 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:24:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BFNbur073674 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:23:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BFNaUj075650; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BFNXA7075634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 09:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dh7pX-0007eY-9n; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:23:27 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:23:27 -0500 Message-ID: <20050611102327.fxrq9gxxmc7scs4s@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:23:27 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *snippage* > > It's interesting that you say that. There's a website that shows > reconstructions of Roman costume done by Sebesta and other academics as part > of a 1988 conference. (Make sure to select "Reproductions of Ancient > Costumes" in the box at the top of the page to get the slide show I'm talking > about.) Many of their costumes did strike me as unconvincing. Here's where > the slideshow starts, if you're curious: > > http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/slides/selectshow.html > *nice* Based on this, my chiton is way to "wide" and looks to perhaps be the primary reason I'm not satisfied with it. How "big" should one be -- or what's a good rule of thumb I guess -- widest measurement plus ????? Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 12:55:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BGttGk004986 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:55:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BGqVWK081157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:52:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BGqR9N014440; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BGqOtN014427 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 10:52:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) Received: from [67.101.47.218] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Dh9Db-0001Ip-U0 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:52:24 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type; b=RhbGkfmobsoNtxANw/9xmGhyuGGlQLS9l+SEDYF5t85ocMhyR6xCVD7BpSCgU33y; Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050610062155.0306a660@mail.alltel.net> References: <200506100130.j5A1UTb0047892@net.indra.com> <6.0.0.22.0.20050610062155.0306a660@mail.alltel.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:47:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d478855a0fdb601c8e4e99ba303ab93311696375de8276a6ac97350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.47.218 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:38 AM -0500 6/10/05, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: >I was not terribly impressed by Mary G. Houston's.. but it's a bit >better than Norris (I find Norris too unreliable). I haven't seen >the Hope. There's a new book coming out that I've been waiting for: > >Byzantine Dress : Representations of Secular Dress (The New Middle Ages) >by Jennifer L. Ball Hardcover: 256 pages. Palgrave Macmillan >(September 15, 2005) Language: English ISBN: 1403967008 > >another that I've been thinking about is > >Ecclesiastical Dress in the Medieval Near East (Studies in Textile >Costume History, Vol 1) by K.C. Innemee, Karel C. Innemee Hardcover: >300 pages. Brill Academic Pub (August 1, 1997) ISBN: 9004095489 I had a chance to browse through the Innemee book at a bookstore once. My impression was that, while there was a great deal of in-depth analysis, the visual material they were working from was rather scanty. (I had been hoping for some surviving garments, given that ecclesiastical items tend to be preserved more often, and also given that another volume in the series is Vogelsang-Eastwood's book on Pharaonic clothing, which is chock-full of surviving garments.) Everyone's interests are different, so I don't know whether your needs might match the book's contents better. But given that it's likely to be expensive, I hope you get a chance to look through it before committing your money. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 14:22:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BIMf4V005404 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:22:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BIKRBw087326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:20:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BIKPbt049156; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:20:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BIKNMK049106 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 12:20:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.34]) by ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050611182016.JIB7497.ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 13:20:16 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050611130743.02a0a650@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 13:20:12 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume In-Reply-To: <200506111800.j5BI046S041400@net.indra.com> References: <200506111800.j5BI046S041400@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the update. I've been thinking about it for about a year.. the price has been an issue. I'm really glad to hear from someone that's actually seen it. Think I'll ILL it instead. Not a primary interest.. just fleshing out background. It's strange that they didn't use more of the surviving garments.. there is so much out there... just scattered, but Stillman's didn't illustrate much on Islamic either. Beth At 01:00 PM 6/11/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 20:47:42 -0700 >From: Heather Rose Jones >Subject: re: [h-cost] Byzantine/late Roman costume > >At 6:38 AM -0500 6/10/05, Beth and Bob Matney wrote: > > >another that I've been thinking about is > > > >Ecclesiastical Dress in the Medieval Near East (Studies in Textile > >Costume History, Vol 1) by K.C. Innemee, Karel C. Innemee Hardcover: > >300 pages. Brill Academic Pub (August 1, 1997) ISBN: 9004095489 > >I had a chance to browse through the Innemee book at a bookstore >once. My impression was that, while there was a great deal of >in-depth analysis, the visual material they were working from was >rather scanty. (I had been hoping for some surviving garments, given >that ecclesiastical items tend to be preserved more often, and also >given that another volume in the series is Vogelsang-Eastwood's book >on Pharaonic clothing, which is chock-full of surviving garments.) > >Everyone's interests are different, so I don't know whether your >needs might match the book's contents better. But given that it's >likely to be expensive, I hope you get a chance to look through it >before committing your money. > >Heather _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 17:30:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BLUdiR006309 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BLTh1Y000417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BLTdOB027949; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:29:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BLTZto027908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:29:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BMoBxS009519 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:50:16 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:29:24 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050611102327.fxrq9gxxmc7scs4s@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20050611102327.fxrq9gxxmc7scs4s@www.goldsword.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506111729.25190.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 11 June 2005 11:23 am, Susan B. Farmer wrote: > *snippage* > > > It's interesting that you say that. There's a website that shows > > reconstructions of Roman costume done by Sebesta and other academics as > > part of a 1988 conference. (Make sure to select "Reproductions of > > Ancient Costumes" in the box at the top of the page to get the slide show > > I'm talking about.) Many of their costumes did strike me as > > unconvincing. Here's where the slideshow starts, if you're curious: > > > > http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/slides/selectshow.html > > *nice* Based on this, my chiton is way to "wide" and looks to perhaps be > the primary reason I'm not satisfied with it. How "big" should one be -- > or what's a good rule of thumb I guess -- widest measurement plus ????? No, you've misunderstood the reason I posted the URL above. I think that many of the women's garments on the page are too *narrow*. I sent the URL to Aurelia because the photos include Judith Lynn Sebesta, who wrote a book called "The World of Roman Costume." Aurelia found the book to be useful, *except* for the author's article about reconstructing Roman costume. I posted the URL because I agreed with Aurelia, and thought she might be interested in visual evidence of how the reconstructions by Sebesta et al. are off the mark. RE: What width works. I've seen several different rules of thumb, the origins of which I do not know (and which I therefore suspect to be non-documentable). One is to make the tube for a narrow chiton as wide as the length of one's outstretched arms from elbow to elbow, and a wide chiton as wide as the distance from fingertip to fingertip. However, my experiments have shown me that width alone will not get you a result that looks like the Roman sculptures and the Greek sculptures and paintings. You also need a fabric that can drape into fine folds and is not stiff. The only fabrics I ever found that came reasonably close to this ideal were a mystery fabric I bought from an SCA vendor which was sold to me as "linen"--I'm not sure if it is, but I love the way it falls and wish I had more of it. The other was a medium-weight crinkle rayon, which doesn't have the right surface appearance and which I'm afraid to wash. (The "linen," on the other hand, has shrunk some but otherwise washes very well.) -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 17:40:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BLe46I006361 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:40:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5BLdM8R001188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:39:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BLdL2I031539; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:39:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5BLdGxZ031478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 15:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5BMxvOc009680 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:59:57 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 396 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 17:39:10 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050611123512.51704.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050611123512.51704.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506111739.10457.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 11 June 2005 8:35 am, Aurelia Rufinia wrote: [snip] [I said:] > Speaking of reconstruction, what do you think of > Alexandra Croom's > book, > "Roman Clothing and Fashion"? [snip] [You replied:] > I have not seen this book. Oxbow Books (David Brown Book Company,in the US) sells it, if you decide you're interested. > I have my own theories on > stola shoulders.... I pleat mine into straps (Hard ot > explain on email) but the World of Roman Costume (I > think) also has a close up shot of a stola strap on a > statue (try saying that ten times fast) that looks, to > me, like it's been pleated into itself. I'll need to check that out; thanks. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 20:41:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5C0fwNC007344 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5C0ep1c015070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:40:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5C0ekqW003346; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5C0eixm003338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:40:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DhGWf-0001Wb-Jy; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:40:33 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:40:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20050611194033.y0f9lyf50t4c8kok@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:40:33 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine References: <20050611102327.fxrq9gxxmc7scs4s@www.goldsword.com> <200506111729.25190.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200506111729.25190.cathy@thyrsus.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Catherine Olanich Raymond : > On Saturday 11 June 2005 11:23 am, Susan B. Farmer wrote: >> *snippage* >> >> > It's interesting that you say that. There's a website that shows >> > reconstructions of Roman costume done by Sebesta and other academics as >> > part of a 1988 conference. (Make sure to select "Reproductions of >> > Ancient Costumes" in the box at the top of the page to get the slide show >> > I'm talking about.) Many of their costumes did strike me as >> > unconvincing. Here's where the slideshow starts, if you're curious: >> > >> > http://www.uky.edu/ArtsSciences/Classics/slides/selectshow.html >> >> *nice* Based on this, my chiton is way to "wide" and looks to perhaps be >> the primary reason I'm not satisfied with it. How "big" should one be -- >> or what's a good rule of thumb I guess -- widest measurement plus ????? > > No, you've misunderstood the reason I posted the URL above. > > I think that many of the women's garments on the page are too *narrow*. I > sent the URL to Aurelia because the photos include Judith Lynn Sebesta, who > wrote a book called "The World of Roman Costume." Aurelia found the book to > be useful, *except* for the author's article about reconstructing Roman > costume. I posted the URL because I agreed with Aurelia, and thought she > might be interested in visual evidence of how the reconstructions by Sebesta > et al. are off the mark. > Ahhh. Now I understand! Thanks for clarifying that for me. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 22:27:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5C2Rfgu007929 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:27:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5C2QkhD022727 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5C2QiLU043887; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:26:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web54402.mail.yahoo.com (web54402.mail.yahoo.com [68.142.225.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5C2QgHh043854 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:26:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from texas_byrd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 27723 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jun 2005 02:26:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4gCVWV96lr+TD1Njkqsg5G2dx96TuJrCDEX1WNK9dWrM4vjit6czkEWoRZW9iFRK+ybnqAP2tvjYTRsUmw2FLFaElcKxKjlv00cO6LcEl27ViyVzjEnU8hhfoL7jJa+Ey5fZSqgtNMPPrjfLiXv4yY7M9257zaYLhscKRcn9HSQ= ; Message-ID: <20050612022633.27721.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.240.107.37] by web54402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:26:33 PDT Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:26:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary Lawhorne To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:Natural Form - Westerns X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As per films or television shows with natural forms..; Gone With The Wind has Scarlett O'Hara is a gorgeous red dress with bustle toward the end of the movie. Since the beginning of this movies is 1861 and she doesn't marry Rhett Butler until after Reconstruction, the time would be the 1870's to 1880's. Also, Gunsmoke, which can be found on the Hallmark Channel almost all day Saturday and in the evening all week, has the famous Miss Kitty. It to is set post Civil War. Miss Kitty has some great stuff. I'm not sure how authentic, but she is certainly the most fashionable womn in the town. Her stuff sure does show off her figure. Mary __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 11 23:19:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5C3JnEU008227 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 23:19:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5C3J3tN026885 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:19:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5C3J2M3066349; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53006.mail.yahoo.com (web53006.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5C3J0IO066310 for ; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aureliarufinia@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 59377 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jun 2005 03:18:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=p9xMXJaD6/34osmqKPINDiJ+Otz163ErgvsaC7OhgUS0pYeA/Zl/Sa7wpvWSLvgp7aJvCebo7m4Z/DzlZDy8IGUU4ikeyx6DOyQqOCgqr1JhGsfNdKCYe9EmGVgmpWioNojsH3YlF3z2o2fslanu9eAsLICgRT3a/VvTx1h2GgQ= ; Message-ID: <20050612031854.59375.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.163.146.33] by web53006.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:18:54 PDT Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Aurelia Rufinia To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506111800.j5BI046T041400@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/925/Sat Jun 11 12:55:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 397 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I make *all* of my Roman garb the width of the fabric, so most of it is around 54". Any shaping is done with belts or draping. The ionic chintons I make as wide as my armspan, and use a minorly complecated belting method to shape them. Aurelia ------------- *nice* Based on this, my chiton is way to "wide" and looks to perhaps be the primary reason I'm not satisfied with it. How "big" should one be -- or what's a good rule of thumb I guess -- widest measurement plus ????? Baroness Aurelia Rufinia House Iron Maiden, Barony of Carolingia, East Kingdom, Northshield Ex-Pat "We're always fascinated when we find leg irons with no legs in them. Who held the keys, sir?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 10:55:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5CEtT1E024869 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:55:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5CEsgqC090270 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CEqHlE021047; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:52:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CEqELC021003 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:52:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.29]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DhTos-0002UM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:52:14 -0400 Message-ID: <19722785.1118587934173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:52:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Susan Farmer wrote: >You also need a fabric that can drape into fine folds and is not stiff. The only >fabrics I ever found that came reasonably close to this ideal were a mystery >fabric I bought from an SCA vendor which was sold to me as "linen"--I'm not >sure if it is, but I love the way it falls and wish I had more of it. The >other was a medium-weight crinkle rayon, which doesn't have the right surface >appearance and which I'm afraid to wash. (The "linen," on the other hand, >has shrunk some but otherwise washes very well.) I would suspect your "mystery material" may also be rayon, or possibly a rayon-linen blend. Rayon does have a wonderful drape, and since it's a cellulose-based fiber, it breathes much better than most synthetics. I would suspect also that what the Greeks and Romans used (assuming the "drape" on statues is not artistic license!) may have been very fine linen, washed multiple times for softness, or perhaps a fine gauzy wool. Both, alas, very hard to find nowadays :) Remember that "linen" nowadays in fabric-store terms refers to a particular surface appearance, not to fiber content. Peculiarities like "linen, 100% rayon" are not uncommon, or the one that always makes me laugh, the otherwise redundant "100% flax linen". ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 13:20:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5CHKsJX025699 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:20:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5CHJulX002953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CHJpEs083923; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CHJm9k083866 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:19:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.65.47350cd7 (3940) for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:19:37 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <65.47350cd7.2fddc8a8@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:19:36 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Natural Form - Westerns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/11/2005 10:27:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, texas_byrd@yahoo.com writes: Miss Kitty has some great stuff. I'm not sure how authentic, but Zero....zero authentic! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 13:54:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5CHs64o025902 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:54:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5CHrRSx005373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:53:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CHrOKj097765; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:53:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CHrMRE097745 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:53:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DhWe8-0003Ak-9O for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:53:21 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:51:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants References: <20050610205646.GV15563@vienna> <20050611044958.33488.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050611044958.33488.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melody Watts wrote >let's not forget our Punker Boy friends who wear kilts >over low rider jeans with engineer boots > >--- Christine Robb wrote: > Are you telling me they are wearing kilts at "low rider" level? Eeuuughhhh! Thank goodness that hasn't travelled over here. I feel quite ill! The other week I had to fly to a meeting, and I got off the plane and walked all the way into the terminal behind this young guy, I swear I thought his jeans were going to fall round his ankles any minute, there were several inches of underpant showing. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 14:18:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5CIHxWt026098 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5CIGBM5007069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CIGAwf007631; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CIG6GV007585 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5CIGBNs017721 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:16:13 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.80.30] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-80-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.80.30]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5CIFqXN280486 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:16:02 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050612110723.024f8ba8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:15:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants In-Reply-To: References: <20050611044958.33488.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050610205646.GV15563@vienna> <20050611044958.33488.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The other week I had to fly to a meeting, and I got off the plane and >walked all the way into the terminal behind this young guy, I swear I >thought his jeans were going to fall round his ankles any minute, there >were several inches of underpant showing. I guess I have a different perspective on what young people wear. I see these oddities as ways they have to try to upset us "older folks". And I can see, from the responses on this list, that they're doing a pretty good job of it. I smile at things like low-rider jeans, which I merely don't like, and hope somebody shows these guys blackmail photos of themselves when they get to be suit-wearing middle-aged businessmen. I mean, I was a Hippie when I was their age, and wore some pretty outrageous and in-your-face things back then. Come to think of it, I wear some pretty outrageous and in-your-face things now, and embarrass one of my daughters no end. (The other daughter has been known to borrow some of my modern outrageous clothes.) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 16:26:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5CKQ55D026914 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 16:26:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5CKIoRA015594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:18:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CKIghm057465; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:18:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5CKIYoD057386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:18:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5CLdHdr002819 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:39:17 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 16:18:25 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <19722785.1118587934173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <19722785.1118587934173.JavaMail.root@wamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200506121618.25778.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sunday 12 June 2005 10:52 am, Chris Laning wrote: > Susan Farmer wrote: No, actually the following comment was from me. > >You also need a fabric that can drape into fine folds and is not stiff. > > The only fabrics I ever found that came reasonably close to this ideal > > were a mystery fabric I bought from an SCA vendor which was sold to me as > > "linen"--I'm not sure if it is, but I love the way it falls and wish I > > had more of it. [snip] > > I would suspect your "mystery material" may also be rayon, or possibly a > rayon-linen blend. Rayon does have a wonderful drape, and since it's a > cellulose-based fiber, it breathes much better than most synthetics. You could be right, I certainly can't rule rayon out without something like a burn test. The woman who sold it to me said she'd tried to dye it with a natural dye (can't remember which one) but it didn't really take. The result remained a very pale tan (not creme--it's not a yellowish color at all) with brown bits here and there. I suspect the yarn type and weave has a lot to do with its wonderful properties. The yarn is fairly fine and the weave somewhat open. I'm thinking of hunting for linen gauze in the future to try to obtain a fabric with similar properties. > I would suspect also that what the Greeks and Romans used (assuming the > "drape" on statues is not artistic license!) may have been very fine linen, > washed multiple times for softness, or perhaps a fine gauzy wool. Both, > alas, very hard to find nowadays :) I agree with you, on both statements. :-) > Remember that "linen" nowadays in fabric-store terms refers to a particular > surface appearance, not to fiber content. Peculiarities like "linen, 100% > rayon" are not uncommon, or the one that always makes me laugh, the > otherwise redundant "100% flax linen". I'm aware of that. The fabric I was writing about does not have the "linen-look"; it actually looks more like a gauze. The woman I bought it from routinely sells to SCA people and understands the difference between "look" and content, but her own information was not complete. I'm certain she was honestly telling me what she had been toled, but we both recognized that her information may have been incorrect. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 20:01:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D01Mmk028226 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:01:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D00JZ0030703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:00:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D00DGB040772; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:00:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D0093D040729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:00:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5CNtolR012674 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:55:51 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42ACCC85.7060806@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:00:05 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume notes 1662 "open knees, closed knees" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/06/12/index.php This morning I tried on my riding cloth suit with close knees, the first that ever I had; and I think they will be very convenient, if not too hot to wear any other open knees after them. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 20:22:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D0MhB8028382 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:22:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D0LlHr032839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:21:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D0LkBi049733; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:21:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from myway.com (nn3.excitenetwork.com [207.159.120.57]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D0LhwQ049682 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:21:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emmajean@myway.com) Received: by mprdmxin.myway.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 4D1126091D; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:21:32 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Received: from [142.161.147.66] by mprdmailfe5.nwk.myway.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:21:32 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = e6d5716d6e7f98faf43074c6dfb17145 From: "Wendy" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: emmajean@myway.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:21:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] teen fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's a new look up here (Winnipeg) of wearing jeans with one leg down to the ankle and the other rolled up to under the knee. I'm guessing some celebrity thought it was brilliant idea. It's going to leave interesting tan lines. Wendy _______________________________________________ No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 20:51:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D0pgCq028579 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:51:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D0oxtO035694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:50:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D0ow8f061942; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:50:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:nZica30O4C/p+gK7nXFsObie1dssQtFb@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D0osL6061913 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.253] (pool180-104.patriot.net [209.249.180.104]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j5D0oobr015360 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:50:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> References: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:47:52 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] teen fashion Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wendy said, >There's a new look up here (Winnipeg) of wearing jeans with one leg >down to the ankle and the other rolled up to under the knee. > >I'm guessing some celebrity thought it was brilliant idea. It's >going to leave interesting tan lines. I suppose you could alternate each day? :-) Carolyn mentioned earlier how people dress in outrageous fashion as teenagers, and then would be embarrassed to admit to it as adults. As people interested in costume, I think we would be less likely to feel that way. I didn't like most of the trends out there when I was a teenager. If "everybody" did it, why bother? :-) Either I liked the style or I didn't, so there's no need for me to be embarrassed about it later. Except for things my mom bought for me.... -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 21:10:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D1A9Hd028659 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 21:10:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D19K6G036848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:09:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D19Itf068723; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:09:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D19GUC068662 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:09:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so179189nzk for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:09:10 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JPd2MGku/5dX5gFqamorfVGzC8al1Nt+UAunoU9gyK3xqDL0PoHq8duKaCMsMaAiDdMe+7t4jYvrfBNc+vhV9DlFRbh2MKARabP3aOKLunxrVjqVgcBXol4MSLd3Fo58PdlniZ26Bz1x7ElFKW9RR4iDDHBc+xFm5sEUNTsbS2Q= Received: by 10.36.118.4 with SMTP id q4mr2367568nzc; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 18:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80506121809461fc6a3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 21:09:10 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] teen fashion In-Reply-To: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5D19GUC068662 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's pretty old really. Depending on which leg is up it's drug dealer code as to whether or not they are carrying. Bice On 6/12/05, Wendy wrote: > > > There's a new look up here (Winnipeg) of wearing jeans with one leg down to the ankle and the other rolled up to under the knee. > > I'm guessing some celebrity thought it was brilliant idea. It's going to leave interesting tan lines. > > Wendy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 12 22:27:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D2R1mZ029777 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:27:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D2Q5xq042969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:26:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D2Q2pu098750; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:26:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5D2PxPG098724 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:26:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-15510); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:24:04 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:23:53 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050612192417.00de8580@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:25:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hose In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050608170652.03499708@mail.frys.com> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050607082508.02a7b160@mail.alltel.net> <200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com> <200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another possibility is that the "jersey" was woven with somewhat overtwisted yarns, which would also make it stretchy, almost like a knit. Joan At 05:08 PM 6/8/2005 -0700, you wrote: >>Now the question is: What does Frick mean by the use of the term >>"jersey" and what is the characteristics of the cloth that make it >>"stretchable"? To most of us this would imply a knit textile, but I >>cannot find supporting documentation (though we do know that knitted >>stockings were made in England by the time of Elizabeth I). Perhaps some >>variation on a twill is intended... > >I made a pair of waist-high footed hose for someone using thin >loosely-woven wool cut on the bias. My only guess is that "jersey" refers >to cloth woven in Jersey, not to a knit. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 00:41:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D4fUmX030462 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:41:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D4ealI054382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:40:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D4eXvN051212; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:40:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D4eSS3051179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:40:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-218-194-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.218.194]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5D4eP3G019542 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:40:26 +1000 Message-ID: <007701c56fd1$d7d5fae0$c2daf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.0.0.22.0.20050607082508.02a7b160@mail.alltel.net><200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com><200506071218.j57CHv1I079959@net.indra.com> <4.2.2.20050612192417.00de8580@pop.surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hose Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:39:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think some of the costuming books (especially the older ones) tend to assume XYZ fabric name must mean jersey (Using the modern definition of a knit) because it's generally listed as used to make hose and that's the sort of fabric you would use to make hose. I don't know how good this author is, but it's a thought to consider that she might be wrong. Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hose > Another possibility is that the "jersey" was woven with somewhat > overtwisted yarns, which would also make it stretchy, almost like a knit. > Joan > > At 05:08 PM 6/8/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > >>Now the question is: What does Frick mean by the use of the term > >>"jersey" and what is the characteristics of the cloth that make it > >>"stretchable"? To most of us this would imply a knit textile, but I > >>cannot find supporting documentation (though we do know that knitted > >>stockings were made in England by the time of Elizabeth I). Perhaps some > >>variation on a twill is intended... > > > >I made a pair of waist-high footed hose for someone using thin > >loosely-woven wool cut on the bias. My only guess is that "jersey" refers > >to cloth woven in Jersey, not to a knit. > > > > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > > www.FunStuft.com > > > > //// \\\ > > ////-@@\\\ > > (((( 7 ))) > > ((( <> )))) > > ) (((((( > > /----\ /---\)) > > > >_______________________________________________ > >h-costume mailing list > >h-costume@mail.indra.com > >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 01:16:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D5GQjm030587 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:16:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D5FKfP057691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:15:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D5FI40065841; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:15:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vhost1.itasca.net (IDENT:J8chVdHNp/y0iTbWBX/FTxioje1bgp6x@vhost1.itasca.net [207.195.213.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D5FGsa065818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:15:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ynes@sskip.net) Received: from 208-59-116-5.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com ([208.59.116.5]:28884 helo=[10.0.1.52]) by vhost1.itasca.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.42 and XAMS 0.0.13) id 1DhhI3-0001ly-9S for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:15:15 -0500 Message-ID: <42AD1661.5010903@sskip.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:15:13 -0400 From: Ynes Garcia User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] teen fashion References: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> In-Reply-To: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scan-Signature: 13a900b6cfeb6f488bca89e4c9b36e18 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I ride my bike, I roll my right pant leg up and sometimes I forget to unroll it when I dismount. Personally, I think this habit makes me look quite the doofus. - Ynes Wendy wrote: >There's a new look up here (Winnipeg) of wearing jeans with one leg down to the ankle and the other rolled up to under the knee. > >I'm guessing some celebrity thought it was brilliant idea. It's going to leave interesting tan lines. > >Wendy > > -- Lady Ynes Garcia, Chatelaine for the Barony of Storvik mka Lisa Fogelman ynes@sskip.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 01:24:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D5OAh4030610 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:24:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D5NOVr058138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D5NOgo068395; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D5NLLh068360 for ; Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005061305231501400ji88le>; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 05:23:15 +0000 Message-ID: <002401c56fd8$04b97810$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050613002132.4D1126091D@mprdmxin.myway.com> <42AD1661.5010903@sskip.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] teen fashion Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:23:22 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The one pants leg rolled up has been a teen fashion for a couple of years. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 04:11:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D8BAsm001407 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 04:11:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D8AFLw070042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D8ACwn028402; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:10:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D8A8MS028305 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:10:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j5D89vd28871.; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:09:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:09:57 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:09:44 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] embroidered waistcoat. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5D8A8MS028305 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, your posts could never be a pestilence; you show us such beautiful things. The detail is exquisite and the colour combinations lovely. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 04:13:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5D8DQGY001809 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 04:13:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5D8CqNM070348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:12:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D8Cqkx029684; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:12:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5D8Co4t029614 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 02:12:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050613081243014002dl6me>; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:12:43 +0000 Message-ID: <003a01c56fef$b1104eb0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 04:12:50 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1890s and Social Classes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j5D8DQGY001809 Status: RO I know we have discussed the 1890s and the social classes... that the middle and upper classes were larger at this time. Does anyone know of a website that has details on this information? Also were there other notable inventions during the 1890s. I have the electric iron and the shoe fasteners (aka zippers). Can anyone else think of other inventions that related to our industry during this time? Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 09:14:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DDE6ZA002478 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:14:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DDD3io008668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:13:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DDCvgN052443; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:12:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.primushost.com (smtp2.primushost.com [209.58.220.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DDCqU0052390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:12:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vintage@primushost.com) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by smtp2.primushost.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1DhokA-0001rO-Di; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:12:46 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) for id 1DhoMz-0005Dv-00; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:48:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:48:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: "Megan M." Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tuxedo/tails pattern needed In-Reply-To: <20050610012607.59B7C15C6D@mail03.powweb.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: "'Historical Costume'" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ageless Patterns has a men's tailcoat suit pattern, says it is 1860's, don't know what the source of the patetrn is or if it is any good. www.agelesspatterns.com Katy On Thu, 9 Jun 2005, Megan M. wrote: >Thanks for the suggestion. I looked up Jean Hardy on the web, plus I went >to G-Street today and found that Folkwear has a frock coat, plus the prince >Charlie jacket in the kilt pattern is not too far off, so I think I may use >those. There is also a Suitability shadbelly that is pretty close. So, >somewhere between these three is the jacket I have in mind.... unless I find >an actual tails pattern before I get around to making it. >-Megan > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 10:52:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DEqhQh003098 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:52:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DEpQMS018647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:51:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DEn0hu009532; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5DEmtqU009490 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 6891 invoked from network); 13 Jun 2005 14:48:35 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:48:35 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1043.67.188.164.116.1118674134.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <20050605.134107.14191.286322@webmail25.nyc.untd.com> References: <20050605.134107.14191.286322@webmail25.nyc.untd.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:48:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Merchant of Venice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I finally got a chance to see this movie--it is the new version with Al Pacino playing Shylock--and I have to say that it was very well done. The costumes for the ladies were a pity, though. They used beautiful fabrics for the dresses (one particularly exquisite shot silk in a jacquard weave that was super yummy) but they didn't make them right. Every dress Portia wears is off the shoulder (huh?) and she wears her hair down constantly with just a fancy circlet/crown-ish thing. I realize that it is Hollywood but the real styles are just as sexy and beautiful and they would have been a better use of the gorgeous fabrics! I recommend seeing it, though. The acting was very good and the language isn't as difficult to understand as some other Shakespeare stuff. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 11:56:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DFtwbG003686 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:55:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DFs96G026452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:54:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DFs47s057408; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:54:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5DFrxZ1057286 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:54:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 39823 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2005 15:53:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0bwJj6D7uDyfY8lgINmP4bJcXKmVGrES7fCYnM8ufEZF95pw8HVWgfkip9HL/cGEm0muoruO+1SUjFfaDhnOBDpduwfmjFFcmYPqA44OQfs/uyQYjfo+ahoP2JblnvEYVbGwtAxs1YXAWIRej9wHECR1X31El6ocJxZNRjJ0JPs= ; Message-ID: <20050613155354.39821.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.19.8] by web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:53:53 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:53:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Galadriel of Lothlorien To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506110249.j5B2n1IH074879@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Natural Form X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For the skirt, we started out with an Ageless Pattern (http://www.agelesspatterns.com) but even though the picture looks like the skirt we made, the pattern was for something MUCH simpler. So we really had to make that mostly on our own. The bodice I patterned myself. Thank you all for the compliments. :) > *gorgeous*! Now I want to make one. What pattern > did you use? I think this is just something I'd > want to wear to the opera or symphony...just to be > dressy! > > -- > Slan go foill > Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > > Emer's Needle Wares > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > I made my sister's wedding dress in this era. I > > absolutely love this period! For pics of how it > > turned out, see here: > > > > > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressFront.jpg > > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressBack.jpg > > > http://member.dorianmirth.com/Rachel/DressSide.jpg __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 11:59:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DFxsNL003721 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:59:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DFwpI3027013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:58:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DFwpSI060946; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:58:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DFwjJ8060878 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:58:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5DFwrNs009061 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:58:53 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.84.81] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-84-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.84.81]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5DFwXXP089194 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:58:43 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050613083811.02607ec8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:38:22 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1890s and Social Classes In-Reply-To: <003a01c56fef$b1104eb0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Also were there other notable inventions during the 1890s. I have the >electric iron and the shoe fasteners (aka zippers). Can anyone else think >of other inventions that related to our industry during this time? Rayon CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 12:04:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DG4erG003744 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:04:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DG3YgX027510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:03:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DG3WL0064597; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5DG3PIe064433 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:03:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 43958 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2005 16:03:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=YNCJdgWMYHx1Zocsl36BqPsFv3Od+8ha5zDXEwQp0rY7JJrmxn9KU4q7iM2UCqXpycxuqgvisR0fBJZIQrQxBbRuKUxZ11bJyFZzIst/nKsi4PbeWiynGDv22JR9eyo03w8PaGHwh9jYhBGCqYIfxYaKNj3qru22JJZ8Ua5jjD0= ; Message-ID: <20050613160319.43956.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.19.8] by web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:03:19 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:03:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Galadriel of Lothlorien To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506111055.j5BAt5Ga065971@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Natural Form X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! We had a lot of fun finding the fabrics. Actually, I would have LOVED to have had time to make a petticoat. I know you can't achieve the right look without the right underthings, but as it was, while I was making her corset and dress, I was also preparing for a national competition for costume design in theatre which I did NOT expect to win regionally so I had a LOT to do, oh yeah and I also had pneumonia. ;) My costume design friend has offered to make a petticoat for my sister for a Christmas present, so thanks for the link! I've passed it on and it will come in handy. :D > > It looks fabulous! I especially like the way you > used textures to prevent > the all white colour scheme from getting monotonous. > The only possible flaw would be the train (though I > have seen one photo with > a train that lies flat on the ground like that so it > is period) I thought > the look might be improved with a petticoat like > this > http://www.fashion-era.com/images/Crinsbustles/pett1873.jpg > Elizabeth __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 12:34:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DGYvJ3003899 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:34:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DGXbHU031437 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:33:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DGXXpW089031; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:33:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DGXOVN088946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-178.sonic.net [209.148.114.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DGXMEh020900 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:33:23 -0700 Message-ID: <42ADB55A.9000304@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:33:30 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Natural Form References: <20050613160319.43956.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050613160319.43956.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/934/Sun Jun 12 16:44:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you need a pattern, there are four natural form era petticoat patterns in Volume 1 of my anthology of 1877-1882 women's patterns, _Fashions of the Gilded Age_. One of the petticoats has an attached train, another a buttoned-on detachable train. There is also a pattern for a sort of tie-on partial petticoat with back ruffles to tie over another petticoat. Fran Lavolta Press Books of Historic Patterns http://www.lavoltapress.com Galadriel of Lothlorien wrote: >My costume design friend has offered to make a >petticoat for my sister for a Christmas present, so >thanks for the link! I've passed it on and it will >come in handy. :D > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 13:24:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DHOvCN005583 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:24:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DHNjbt039918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:23:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHNf65028664; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.167]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHNak0028527 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:23:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.6]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050613164654.HGDK8494.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:46:54 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050613111928.02a1ab80@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:46:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200506131554.j5DFs574057425@net.indra.com> References: <200506131554.j5DFs574057425@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: hose X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That is a good suggestion.. twill with over-twisted yarns... and we will probably never know for sure. It would be wonderful to find a surviving sample. Frick is a current scholar and is usually quite meticulous, which is why her use of the term "jersey" (without qualification) jumped out at me. The actual textile that she refers by this is "perpignan" (named for the town in what is now France... originally capital of Majorca and then in Catalonia until 1603). There was quite a trade in the textile to Italy. I would love it if Dr. Frick would reply to one of my emails and say why she chose to describe it as jersey. The only footnote she gives is to an economic history text in Italian (which I have) that does not discuss the textile's properties. Beth At 10:54 AM 6/13/2005, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 19:25:37 -0700 >From: Joan Jurancich >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: hose > >Another possibility is that the "jersey" was woven with somewhat >overtwisted yarns, which would also make it stretchy, almost like a knit. >Joan > >At 05:08 PM 6/8/2005 -0700, you wrote: > > >>Now the question is: What does Frick mean by the use of the term > >>"jersey" and what is the characteristics of the cloth that make it > >>"stretchable"? To most of us this would imply a knit textile, but I > >>cannot find supporting documentation (though we do know that knitted > >>stockings were made in England by the time of Elizabeth I). Perhaps some > >>variation on a twill is intended... >Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:39:09 +1000 >From: "Elizabeth Walpole" > >I think some of the costuming books (especially the older ones) tend to >assume XYZ fabric name must mean jersey (Using the modern definition of a >knit) because it's generally listed as used to make hose and that's the sort >of fabric you would use to make hose. I don't know how good this author is, >but it's a thought to consider that she might be wrong. >Elizabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 13:26:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DHQhpj005653 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:26:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DHPht8040349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:25:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHPgTV030240; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:25:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHPaIR030095 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:25:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.116 ([204.127.197.116]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <200506131725310150035aoae>; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:25:31 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.116; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:25:30 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:25:30 +0000 Message-Id: <061320051725.17412.42ADC18A0005B630000044042200734830969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -------------- Original message -------------- > A couple book recommendations: > > Byzantine Women and Their World by Ioli Kalavrezou This is quite recent, just > coming out 2 years ago, and I recall there being a fair number of pictures. I > think it was part of a catalog for an exhibit at the Met. Thanks, Janet - this is exactly the one I was going to reccomend, and now I don't have to type the citation!. :-) It's actually a Harvard exhibit, and is an excellent pictorial source. It's not going to have patterns, but with a basic understanding of dress forms, one can figure it out. One of my favorites, since there are also lots of head-dressings depicted. I also get some direction from: Late Antiquity, A guide to the Post-Classical World, G.W. Bowersock, et.al.1999, Harvard University Press, 0-674-51173-5 I bought this solely for the necklace in plate 23 (which pretty much debunks the "superhumeral" idea), but have since found it useful for other clothing interpretations. Not tons of illustrations, but enough. Lots and lots of info. Eirene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 13:43:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DHhMQ7006241 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:43:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DHgMDq043232 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHgKZD043135; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHgH55043082 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:42:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5DHgNNs030278 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:42:23 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.84.81] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-84-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.84.81]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5DHg9XN112296 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:42:14 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050613104018.026b5ec0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:42:05 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chinese Parasol In-Reply-To: <20050613173545.81335.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Anyway, I have a kinda-sorta-not-really OT question. I >picked up a chinese parasol for a song at $5. or so. >Only problem with it, it has those typical oriental >water colour paintings all over it. I'd like to remove >them if at all possible. I *think* the parasol cover >is a poly of sorts and the paint seems fairly opaque >so it's not necessarily stained the fabric. Any ideas >what might lift it off without damaging the parasol >itself? I can't paint over it, the painting will shine >through anyway when the sun hits it. I'd like to turn >this into a Romano-Venetian parasol and would prefer >it without the pretty birdies. What about recovering the frame with different fabric? You might have to resort to that if the paint removal doesn't work. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 13:46:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DHke5q006368 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:46:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DHjhwO043781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:45:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHjdMP045785; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:45:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHjRu4045548 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:45:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (unknown[204.127.197.128](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050613174521014002if0oe>; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:45:21 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.111; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:45:20 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman/Byzantine Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:45:20 +0000 Message-Id: <061320051745.21250.42ADC630000515A0000053022207000953969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -------------- Original message -------------- > On Sunday 12 June 2005 10:52 am, Chris Laning wrote: > > > Susan Farmer wrote: > > No, actually the following comment was from me. > > > >You also need a fabric that can drape into fine folds and is not stiff. > > > The only fabrics I ever found that came reasonably close to this ideal > > > were a mystery fabric I bought from an SCA vendor which was sold to me as > > > "linen"--I'm not sure if it is, but I love the way it falls and wish I > > > had more of it. > Well, linen would be an excellent choice. It's usually a tad stiffer than rayon, but has the added advantage that is doesn't shrink (much), unlike rayon which seems to have the remarkable property of shrinking everytime it goes into the laundry. > > You could be right, I certainly can't rule rayon out without something like a > burn test. Since I frequent the Denver Fabric Annex, I often pick up fabric that certainly has some linen content, and very likely seems to have rayon as well. I've done a lot of burn tests, but I can't tell the difference between rayon and linen. They both have a yellow flame, smell alike, and the ash looks and feels the same. What else should I look for? Eirene > > > I would suspect also that what the Greeks and Romans used (assuming the > > "drape" on statues is not artistic license!) may have been very fine linen, > > washed multiple times for softness, or perhaps a fine gauzy wool. Both, > > alas, very hard to find nowadays :) I believe that you are correct. The wool would have to be a worsted, and I think you'd have the devil's own time finding that. But light-weight almost see-through linens are pretty easy to find, if white's what you want. I really like www.fabrics-store.com; their IL020 is very nice, and is a deal if you opt for the bulk bolt. $118.98 for 20 yards is less then $6 a yard. Eirene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 13:55:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DHt9OM006717 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:55:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DHrV96044948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:54:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHaTib038318; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:36:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50601.mail.yahoo.com (web50601.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.88]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5DHZqXM037827 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:36:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 81337 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2005 17:35:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20050613173545.81335.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50601.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:35:45 EDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:35:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Chinese Parasol X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi again, I have been rudely remiss in thanking those that have offered their advice and sympathy to my dyeing dilemma not long ago. To which, the fustian turned grey at best. Since then, I ran across a 100% linen denim twill in black - needless to say my friend and I grumbled - worse yet, it was like 6.50/yd. Ah, such is life. Anyway, I have a kinda-sorta-not-really OT question. I picked up a chinese parasol for a song at $5. or so. Only problem with it, it has those typical oriental water colour paintings all over it. I'd like to remove them if at all possible. I *think* the parasol cover is a poly of sorts and the paint seems fairly opaque so it's not necessarily stained the fabric. Any ideas what might lift it off without damaging the parasol itself? I can't paint over it, the painting will shine through anyway when the sun hits it. I'd like to turn this into a Romano-Venetian parasol and would prefer it without the pretty birdies. Thanks! Kathy It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young. -Oscar Wilde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 13:55:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DHtpQV006741 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:55:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DHsrFT045194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHrv5B051994; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHqsnw051323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:53:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5DHmXlR021606 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:48:33 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42ADC7F1.4030908@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:52:49 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume References: <061320051725.17412.42ADC18A0005B630000044042200734830969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <061320051725.17412.42ADC18A0005B630000044042200734830969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > I also get some direction from: Late > Antiquity, A guide to the Post-Classical World, G.W. Bowersock, > et.al.1999, Harvard University Press, 0-674-51173-5 I bought this > solely for the necklace in plate 23 (which pretty much debunks the > "superhumeral" idea) For those of us just reading along in the cheap seats, could you tell us what a "superhumeral" is and how the necklace debunks it? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "And the people next door oppress me all night long. I tell them, I work all day, a man's got to have some time to learn to play the tuba. That's oppression, that is. If I'm not under the heel of the oppressor, I don't know who is." -- Terry Pratchett, _Guards, Guards_ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 14:00:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DI0IVe006894 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:00:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DHxWGp045959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:59:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHwkui055713; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:58:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHva5D054756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:57:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DHvUXu096933 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:57:30 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:57:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <25406.165.236.184.195.1118685450.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050613104018.026b5ec0@mail.frys.com> References: <20050613173545.81335.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050613104018.026b5ec0@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:57:30 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chinese Parasol From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I have to agree with Carolyn. I have the most beautiful pale pink parasol that I purchased with a group of friends during an event and when I used it in an actual rain situation the colors ran and bled as opposed to washing off. The image is permanently imprinted into the fabric. Grant it rain water does have a tendency to clean colors out of things that nothing else will (I think it is the oxygen content) but I could tell that if I left it out in the rain the most it would do would fade the images. For what it is worth, it has cute birdies on it. :) Chiara On Mon, June 13, 2005 12:42 pm, Carolyn Kayta Barrows said: > >>Anyway, I have a kinda-sorta-not-really OT question. I >>picked up a chinese parasol for a song at $5. or so. >>Only problem with it, it has those typical oriental >>water colour paintings all over it. I'd like to remove >>them if at all possible. I *think* the parasol cover >>is a poly of sorts and the paint seems fairly opaque >>so it's not necessarily stained the fabric. Any ideas >>what might lift it off without damaging the parasol >>itself? I can't paint over it, the painting will shine >>through anyway when the sun hits it. I'd like to turn >>this into a Romano-Venetian parasol and would prefer >>it without the pretty birdies. > > What about recovering the frame with different fabric? You might > have to > resort to that if the paint removal doesn't work. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 14:12:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DIC0fd007275 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:12:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DIAw31047756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:10:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DIAvIh065563; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:10:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web60511.mail.yahoo.com (web60511.mail.yahoo.com [209.73.178.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5DIAouI065409 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sionnach1025@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 43746 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2005 18:10:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=iYgfrx+s18MrdL6iVO0AZHpZ5csjc/FknhI8Sl41ME9HCENHqTk1UgCQzAkLAc0jhW1KnruZS1Pd/GjREwEeOgrofnzdlMP3bI5vmKjCnaGkpsd0MoiMHf8qDpECDtnCWDGh2JXdcerKkDHqfi0BfVInAv8yOkFFf2iLsQkZzwI= ; Message-ID: <20050613181044.43744.qmail@web60511.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.209.98.47] by web60511.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:10:44 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 11:10:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Tracy Bossinger To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506131554.j5DFs575057425@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 399 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:15:47 -0700 > From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > <4.3.1.2.20050612110723.024f8ba8@mail.frys.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; > format=flowed > > > >The other week I had to fly to a meeting, and I got > off the plane and > >walked all the way into the terminal behind this > young guy, I swear I > >thought his jeans were going to fall round his > ankles any minute, there > >were several inches of underpant showing. > > I guess I have a different perspective on what young > people wear. I see > these oddities as ways they have to try to upset us > "older folks". And I > can see, from the responses on this list, that > they're doing a pretty good > job of it. I smile at things like low-rider jeans, > which I merely don't > like, and hope somebody shows these guys blackmail > photos of themselves > when they get to be suit-wearing middle-aged > businessmen. Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 20:47:52 -0400 > From: Carol Kocian > Subject: Re: [h-cost] teen fashion > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; > format="flowed" > > Wendy said, > >There's a new look up here (Winnipeg) of wearing > jeans with one leg > >down to the ankle and the other rolled up to under > the knee. > > > >I'm guessing some celebrity thought it was > brilliant idea. It's > >going to leave interesting tan lines. > > I suppose you could alternate each day? :-) > > Carolyn mentioned earlier how people dress in > outrageous fashion > as teenagers, and then would be embarrassed to admit > to it as adults. > As people interested in costume, I think we would be > less likely to > feel that way. I didn't like most of the trends out > there when I was > a teenager. If "everybody" did it, why bother? :-) > Either I liked > the style or I didn't, so there's no need for me to > be embarrassed > about it later. Except for things my mom bought for > me.... > > -Carol > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 01:23:22 -0400 > From: "Penny Ladnier" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] teen fashion > To: "Historical Costume" > Message-ID: > <002401c56fd8$04b97810$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > The one pants leg rolled up has been a teen fashion > for a couple of years. > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com The 'droopy pants' thing has been around for a long while, too. I just hope by the time my boys are old enough to want to 'dress trendy' that that fad is LOOOOONG gone (but it's been around so long already that I doubt it will be gone then, either). I have seen guys getting out of cars & had their pants fall to their ankles before they can do anything about it. My dad has a funny story about watching a group of guys coming home from church wearing their chior robes... the one guy had his robe hiked up so he could hold his pants up as he was running across the street. Talk about an impractical fashion! :} tracy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 14:40:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DIeLGX008269 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DId3WG051592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:39:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DId1qL087705; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:39:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DIcOjn087203 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be37.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.55]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 740C45EE0E9 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:38:17 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:38:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1640 stays X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I found the red satin stays in Manchester Museum from about 1640-60, i would guess it is more 40 than 60 because of the high waist. http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14962&themeback=3&CostumeTheme=Underwear Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:09:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJ9B0m009304 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJ7wF2054666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:07:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJ7vaU010718; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJ7l7f010549 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:07:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B593C6E0 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:07:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:07:52 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays References: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi, > I found the red satin stays in Manchester Museum from about 1640-60, i > would guess it is more 40 than 60 because of the high waist. > > http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14962&themeback=3&CostumeTheme=Underwear > > Mmmmn... Now I want a back view so I can see how those straps are attached behind. It looks like they fit over the upper arm, rather than on the shoulder. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:15:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJFLm2009508 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:15:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJEPCM055467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:14:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJEOKt016057; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJEKDM015939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:14:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DhuNu-0000aQ-8P; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:14:10 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:14:10 -0500 Message-ID: <20050613141410.0gu4pan1m5ycssc8@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:14:10 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays References: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Dawn : > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> Hi, >> I found the red satin stays in Manchester Museum from about >> 1640-60, i would guess it is more 40 than 60 because of the high >> waist. >> >> http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14962&themeback=3&CostumeTheme=Underwear > > > Mmmmn... Now I want a back view so I can see how those straps are > attached behind. It looks like they fit over the upper arm, rather than > on the shoulder. > There is one down at the bottom of the page. I didn't see it until I printed the page out! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:19:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJJ4Xg009639 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:19:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJHrUA055871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:17:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJHoEg018800; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:17:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:JnnKI8thfGAyzFHiN246/iDw3gaqg0qi@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJHUiQ018536 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:17:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j5DJHTQu025740 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:17:29 -0400 Received: from dci012034014006.discovery.com ([12.34.14.6]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51562.12.34.14.6.1118690249.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> References: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:17:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >> Hi, >> I found the red satin stays in Manchester Museum from about 1640-60, i >> would guess it is more 40 than 60 because of the high waist. >> >> http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14962&themeback=3&CostumeTheme=Underwear >> >> > > > Mmmmn... Now I want a back view so I can see how those straps are > attached behind. It looks like they fit over the upper arm, rather than > on the shoulder. > > > Dawn There is a back view, and a side view, and a front detail. Scroll down and click on the thumbnails at the bottom. I was a bit surprised at the stitching around the eyelet holes - it's very thick compared to what I'm used to for 18th century stays. Is this what people find more on 17thC items? -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:21:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJLwc5009751 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:21:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJL3Tn056209 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:21:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJL14w021268; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:21:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJKw4d021139 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:20:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc16.attbi.com[204.127.197.126]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050613192052014002en4oe>; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:20:52 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.111; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:20:51 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:20:51 +0000 Message-Id: <061320051920.17758.42ADDC930007F3DE0000455E2205886442969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -------------- Original message -------------- > eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > > > I also get some direction from: Late > > Antiquity, A guide to the Post-Classical World, G.W. Bowersock, > > et.al.1999, Harvard University Press, 0-674-51173-5 I bought this > > solely for the necklace in plate 23 (which pretty much debunks the > > "superhumeral" idea) > > For those of us just reading along in the cheap seats, could you tell us > what a "superhumeral" is and how the necklace debunks it? > :-) Good point. I'm not sure who coined the term, Norris or Houston, or someone else, but it's a term applied to the wide collar that Theodora wears in the Ravenna mosaic. "Super-" since it goes over everything, and "-humeral" because - well I don't "do" Latin, so I'm not sure. (Been language-impaired as long as I can remember.) There are several issues with the so-called superhumeral, not the least of which is that it doesn't seem to be described as such in surviving documents. And this underscores another issue with much of the Byzantine costuming resources out there, including Houston, Morris, and Veleda of Isenfir - if the names of the garments are in Latin, the work is based on old, out of date research. See, although what we call the Byzantine people were descended from - and in many cases still deeply connected to - the Romans, they spoke Greek as the vernacular. The clothing names applied by the early researchers were Latin, although in lots of cases they were at least partially made-up. More recent researchers have been using the terms for clothing that the Byzantines themselves used in extant docments, and those terms are Greek. It seems to be a mark of very high nobility, and therefore isn't seen but on a very few notable women. Royalty, for instance. In the Theodora mosaic, of the eight women depicted, only three are wearing some sort of necklace or collar. Theodora's is of course the widest and most elaborate. Of her two attendants, one has a collar of two rows of decoration with green drops, and the other wears something similar without the drops. A couple of the women might be wearing a little standing collar or choker, but only two are wearing what we would recognise as a "superhumeral". Based this sort of analysis, the current thinking is that this is not a common sort of decoration, and (at least in my opinion) isn't the sort of decoration that every SCA Byzantine woman should be wearing. Maybe with a very special occasion outfit, but not all the time. I personally don't have one at all, being of the craftsman class - the "high estate" of the Laurel wouldn't have been so high in that place a! nd time. Thirdly, although it is commonly interpreted as a fabric bit with pearls and dropped beads, the existing examples are actually jewelry. There are some existing garments with a faux collar woven in, but there's no evidence that those fabric examples were over-beaded or otherwise embellished. The necklace to which I refered looks remarkably like the one worn by the third lady to Theodora's left. It's in gold and pearls and gemstones, and is, well, spectacular. And to logic in a slight circle, the lavishness of this collar is indicative of the *very* high rank of the wearer. Byzantine society was remarkably segmented; the rich were very rich, and the rest of the people were not what we'd consider even upper-class. There are quite a few bits if existing jewelry, but they are mostly bronze. In describing the "superhumeral" and associated concepts, I've enumerated some of the issues with Houston's and Norris' works, and with sites like http://www.gryph.com/byzantine/dress.htm that derrive information from them. However I do like this particular site, because Clare includes some existing garments and fabric fragments. I used to reccomend Houston and Norris for the very beginning Byzantine clothier, because they seemed to at least get the cut of the garments right, but I'm not very confident of that any more. Probably more information than you wanted..... Eirene _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:35:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJZcI2010240 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJYki3057973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:34:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJYikL032111; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:34:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJYd0E032004 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:34:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622523C6F2 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:34:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42ADDFD4.1070600@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:34:44 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays References: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> <20050613141410.0gu4pan1m5ycssc8@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20050613141410.0gu4pan1m5ycssc8@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >> Mmmmn... Now I want a back view so I can see how those straps are >> attached behind. It looks like they fit over the upper arm, rather than >> on the shoulder. >> > > There is one down at the bottom of the page. I didn't see it until I > printed > the page out! Yeah, I noticed that about 30 seconds after hitting the 'send' button and making a fool out of myself. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:42:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJg3wP010469 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJf11A059308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:41:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJexCT037445; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pony.uvm.edu (pony.uvm.edu [132.198.101.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJesWg037362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.104.191] (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) by pony.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5DJeqQb031219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:40:52 -0400 Message-ID: <42ADE145.30206@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:40:53 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume References: <061320051920.17758.42ADDC930007F3DE0000455E2205886442969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <061320051920.17758.42ADDC930007F3DE0000455E2205886442969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: >I'm not sure who coined the term, Norris or Houston, or someone else, but it's a term applied to the wide collar that Theodora wears in the Ravenna mosaic. "Super-" since it goes over everything, and "-humeral" because - well I don't "do" Latin, so > You'll find it in church dictionaries: superhumeral: ecclesiastical garment worn over the shoulders so, not those necklaces specifically. Probably derived from humerus: of or pertaining to the upper arm - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:46:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJkWUQ010627 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:46:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJjZ8l060224 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:45:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJjWJY041427; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:45:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJjTWF041348 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:45:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be37.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.55]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 87204262887 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:45:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c57050$75c02b30$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> <51562.12.34.14.6.1118690249.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:45:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Carol, As i recall, also the pink stays in V&A has rather thick stitching round the eyletholes, perhaps they laced tighter in 17th century? Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays >> Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I found the red satin stays in Manchester Museum from about 1640-60, i >>> would guess it is more 40 than 60 because of the high waist. >>> >>> http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14962&themeback=3&CostumeTheme=Underwear >>> >>> >> >> >> Mmmmn... Now I want a back view so I can see how those straps are >> attached behind. It looks like they fit over the upper arm, rather than >> on the shoulder. >> >> >> Dawn > > > There is a back view, and a side view, and a front detail. Scroll > down and click on the thumbnails at the bottom. > > I was a bit surprised at the stitching around the eyelet holes - it's > very thick compared to what I'm used to for 18th century stays. Is > this what people find more on 17thC items? > > -Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:50:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJopHq010786 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJo6X8060993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJo52Y045085; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJo3L4044944 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:50:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc16.attbi.com[204.127.197.126]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005061319495601300fvbpfe>; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:49:56 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.111; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:49:55 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume , Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:49:55 +0000 Message-Id: <061320051949.12020.42ADE363000ADFE800002EF42205886442969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ahhh, ecclesiastical. Perhaps applied by Norris/Houston, but not really descriptive of the Byzantine collar. Thanks! Eirene -------------- Original message -------------- > eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > > >I'm not sure who coined the term, Norris or Houston, or someone else, but it's > a term applied to the wide collar that Theodora wears in the Ravenna mosaic. > "Super-" since it goes over everything, and "-humeral" because - well I don't > "do" Latin, so > > > You'll find it in church dictionaries: > superhumeral: ecclesiastical garment worn over the shoulders > so, not those necklaces specifically. Probably derived from humerus: of > or pertaining to the upper arm > > - Hope > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 15:59:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DJxCER011060 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DJwGg7061976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:58:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJwFcG051721; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DJwBeE051651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dhv4M-0000IT-Sf; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:58:02 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:58:02 -0500 Message-ID: <20050613145802.san5kuapgmgogk04@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:58:02 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays References: <000b01c57047$1ec6a150$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <42ADD988.4000405@reddawn.net> <20050613141410.0gu4pan1m5ycssc8@www.goldsword.com> <42ADDFD4.1070600@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <42ADDFD4.1070600@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Dawn : >>> >>> Mmmmn... Now I want a back view so I can see how those straps are >>> attached behind. It looks like they fit over the upper arm, rather than >>> on the shoulder. >>> >> >> There is one down at the bottom of the page. I didn't see it until >> I printed >> the page out! > > Yeah, I noticed that about 30 seconds after hitting the 'send' button > and making a fool out of myself. :) > Well, I wouldn't exactly go *that* far ... :-) You haven't seen some of the things that I've done! Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 17:39:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5DLdkd2012091 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5DLcITT075293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:38:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DLc7Wv030897; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:38:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5DLbps8030683 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:37:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5DLbwNs030521 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:37:59 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.84.81] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-84-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.84.81]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5DLbiXN110170 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 17:37:49 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050613140013.026023f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:00:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chinese Parasol In-Reply-To: <25406.165.236.184.195.1118685450.squirrel@165.236.184.195> References: <4.3.1.2.20050613104018.026b5ec0@mail.frys.com> <20050613173545.81335.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050613104018.026b5ec0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/936/Mon Jun 13 14:14:54 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/936/Mon Jun 13 14:14:54 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >For what it is worth, it has cute birdies on it. :) So save the birdies, maybe frame them, when you remove the existing cover to replace it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 21:35:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5E1ZJtk013244 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:35:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5E1YVG0096377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E1YRMf068982; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav12.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E1YOn0068927 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:34:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:34:19 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV12.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 01:34:18 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4c5accc805060918297e450dc@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: new belly styles was Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural form era movies Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:34:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2005 01:34:19.0011 (UTC) FILETIME=[2EEA0D30:01C57081] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Is this the new grunge? It's been going on for a few seasons around here, probably in the third or fourth summer of the fashion (here being Montreal). To the point where I've stopped noticing. It's probably already starting to go away. The new thing this year is to wear 2 or even 3 tank tops in contrasting colours. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 21:43:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5E1hint013267 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:43:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5E1gxYJ096887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:42:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E1gxYq073158; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:42:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E1gu1L073125 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:42:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41FE3C83A for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:42:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B78DBC48F for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:42:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Natural Form Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:42:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <20050613155354.39821.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you for the site. My sister loves this era's style. De -----Original Message----- For the skirt, we started out with an Ageless Pattern (http://www.agelesspatterns.com) but even though the picture looks like the skirt we made, the pattern was for something MUCH simpler. So we really had to make that mostly on our own. The bodice I patterned myself. Thank you all for the compliments. :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 22:39:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5E2doNu013670 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:39:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5E2d5m4002726 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:39:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E2d0B9000425; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:39:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E2cvtr000366 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:38:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.d5.2a19cb13 (2519) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:38:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:38:45 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles/ things aren't always what they seem... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/13/2005 6:35:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: The new thing this year is to wear 2 or even 3 tank tops in contrasting colours. Now see, this is funny to me, in a way. My daughter wears shirts that /look/ like she has on several different shirts layered over each other. Reminds me a lot of the false puffs and other fashionable artifices of days gone by. If you were to look at a photo of her, you would swear she had on several shirts. Guess that just goes to show that a picture may be worth a thousand words, but sometimes you just never really know what is being worn unless you have the garment(s) in front of you to get up close and personal with. :) ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 22:58:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5E2wrOi013772 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:58:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5E2wC4X004052 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E2wB7O008549; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:58:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E2w7rr008515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:58:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:36498 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1Di1cw-0005C6-J1 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:58:11 -0400 Received: from 198.93.212.47 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2059.198.93.212.47.1118717891.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles/ things aren't always what they seem... From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.212.47 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: References: X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > In a message dated 6/13/2005 6:35:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > > The new thing > this year is to wear 2 or even 3 tank tops in contrasting colours. > > > > Now see, this is funny to me, in a way. My daughter wears shirts that > /look/ like she has on several different shirts layered over each other. but sometimes you just never > really know what is being worn unless you have the garment(s) in front > of you to get up close and personal with. > > :) > ~Kimberley My daughter has a couple tees which are faded and worn to a thread it seems, but she bought them that way. they are called tissue tees and if you go into some of the stores, maybe GAP? you will see tissue tanks or whatever they call them, sold to be worn over each other. they would be considered indecent if worn alone, they are see through. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 23:05:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5E35U0g013797 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:05:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5E34nA1004478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:04:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E34mQH011638; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:04:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav1.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E34h4b011557 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:04:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:04:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:04:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050610053522.014e1ff8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: new belly styles was Re: [h-cost] bustle or natural formera movies Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:42:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2005 03:04:37.0755 (UTC) FILETIME=[CCBCC4B0:01C5708D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Various bits of puppy fat are proudly on display in clothes - often > tracksuits with baggy legs are worn low on the hips, and (whisper it ) > underpants show above the waistband - so ugly. Last summer, it was *thongs* showing above the waistband. UGH! This year it's mostly boxers. Or often a fake waistband that looks like underpants. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 13 23:38:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5E3c02t013920 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:38:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5E3bL0g006743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:37:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5E3bKjI026458; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:37:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web50610.mail.yahoo.com (web50610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5E3bBx2026349 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:37:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 40861 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2005 03:37:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20050614033705.40859.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:37:05 EDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 23:37:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/937/Mon Jun 13 15:46:03 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] chinese parasols and beads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah well... I was hoping that there was a miracle out there that would strip it off without removing it. One more project that went from quick to complicated in one easy step. I have a knack for finding those projects. Hmm.... I wonder if pressurised water shot from behind would push the bulk of it off? Musing at the moment... Onto the next question.... I have a bunch of beading to do, too many projects and not enough time. I know they exist but no idea what the name of the little machine that does it is called that appliques beads onto fabric surfaces. I am fairly certain it's not practical for the application, but for the excercise, does anyone out there know what its called, where one would find such a beast and what cost might it be? Thanks! Kathy It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young. -Oscar Wilde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 08:26:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ECQ8DX017158 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:26:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ECP5WX064348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:25:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ECOvWK051754; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:24:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ECOrJ3051671 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:24:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j5ECOid05254.; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:24:44 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:24:43 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:24:33 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1640 stays Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5ECOrJ3051671 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The waist doesn't seem high to me; it suggests the narrow-waisted drop-shouldered look of the 1650s. My 1630s-40s stays don't reach below my ribcage (except for the centre front) and I wear a bumroll round my waist to give me the "bulky" look of the Hollar ladies. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> drewscph@post12.tele.dk 13/06/2005 19:38 >>> Hi, I found the red satin stays in Manchester Museum from about 1640-60, i would guess it is more 40 than 60 because of the high waist. http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/object.php?irn=14962&themeback=3&CostumeTheme=Underwear Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 09:16:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EDGjQK017549 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:16:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EDG4k6068600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:16:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EDG3vA076258; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:16:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail14.mdx.safepages.com (mail14.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.154.244]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EDG0Wr076208 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:16:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 736C91ECCF8; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:16:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.4.116.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.4.116]) by mail14.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6D0521ECD5B for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:15:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00cd01c570e3$6617cc90$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050610053522.014e1ff8@127.0.0.1> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:17:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles, modern fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I keep hearing that they're bringing back the super-preppy, tailored and detailed fashions of the 50s and early 60s. Why don't I see it? Grumble. I'm going to just go with my plan of making & wearing whatever I want. If I ever get around to it. Why is it so hard for me to make time to sew 'normal' everyday clothes for myself? -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 09:57:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EDvRBn017769 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EDuZhk074647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:56:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EDuFYE007090; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:56:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EDuAgV006803 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 07:56:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (unknown[204.127.197.130](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <20050614135604015005r1ane>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:56:04 +0000 Received: from [67.160.21.108] by 204.127.197.111; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:55:40 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: 50's preppy wasRe: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles, Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:55:40 +0000 Message-Id: <061420051355.26929.42AEE1DC0000A2450000693122069997350809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know what you mean. I started sewing my own clothes for work last January, after I had my carpal tunnel release surgery, because I just liked that look. Plus, I couldn't do any of my costumey sewing because the weight of the fabric for them was too much for me. Even now, I can't handle too much fabric in a garment. I've got a 'shell' dress/blouse pattern and a-line skirt that I just love. Now that I've lost more weight, I need to make more...such fun! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > I keep hearing that they're bringing back the super-preppy, tailored and > detailed fashions of the 50s and early 60s. Why don't I see it? Grumble. > > I'm going to just go with my plan of making & wearing whatever I want. If I > ever get around to it. Why is it so hard for me to make time to sew > 'normal' everyday clothes for myself? > > -E House > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 10:22:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EEM0bK017947 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:22:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EEK61b077371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:20:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EEJpSg045884; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:19:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EEJSHm045227 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:19:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1ef.3de2bfa4 (15875) for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R35 (fwm-r35.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.139]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e0342aee76720a; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:19:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:19:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C73F033038F5C0-D84-161D3@FWM-R35.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200506140143.j5E1h1j4073174@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by FWM-R35.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.139) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:19:19 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200506140143.j5E1h1j4073174@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.139 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/938/Tue Jun 14 02:59:24 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Eirine -- Thanks for the info! At the last SCA event I went to (I'm not technically a member, I just like to turn up at the costuming events), there was this lady with this "superhumeral" that was made out of padded gold lame with about ten pounds of glass beads sewn on it in no apparent pattern. Everybody was giving her all these compliments, but I thought it looked terrible, because I'd already assumed they were made out of metal. Now I feel vindicated. :) That event was part of what sparked my initial questions; I sat in this class that was supposed to be Roman and Byzantine costume, (Turned out to be more like Greek/early Roman costume, not that I mind, but I wish the title of the class had reflected the actual subject matter) and everything the teacher said about Byzantine costume contradicted what I'd already been able to find out from my meager research. Didn't the Egyptians wear a metal collar sort of like the superhumeral? How was that made? Thanks for all the info, everybody. I've been looking at all the books that were suggested, and I think I'm going to buy the ones by Kalavrezou and Bowersock, if I can't get them at the library, that is. The others seem to focus on a later period than I'm interested in. Eirine -- any chance we could see some pictures of your Byzantine garb? Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 11:50:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EFo3Dw027249 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:50:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EFmwWc088014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:48:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EFmu4m024982; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:48:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EFmpoV024908 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:48:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24341 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:06:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:06:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Seeking a correspondent... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not long ago I was e-mailing with someone about costume, and that person mentioned in passing knowing a certain researcher (possibly a professor at her college/university?) who had done a paper on Turkish-style turbans in medieval art. I cannot find my copies of that correspondence, but it was very likely someone on this list. If you recognize yourself in that description, please e-mail me directly. Thanks! --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 11:56:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EFuulr027332 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:56:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EFt9Nv088934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:55:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EFt7T6030143; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:55:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EFt2uD030068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:55:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5EFoelR031180 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:50:40 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42AEFDD3.6060406@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:54:59 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine/late Roman costume References: <061320051920.17758.42ADDC930007F3DE0000455E2205886442969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <061320051920.17758.42ADDC930007F3DE0000455E2205886442969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > Probably more information than you wanted..... Nope. That was a great overview, thanks! Is this info becoming known in the costuming circles? How likely is it that someone interested in that period find out it wasn't fabric? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "And the people next door oppress me all night long. I tell them, I work all day, a man's got to have some time to learn to play the tuba. That's oppression, that is. If I'm not under the heel of the oppressor, I don't know who is." -- Terry Pratchett, _Guards, Guards_ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 12:58:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EGw6Wd028135 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:58:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EGvE2b097917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:57:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EGv9O6081566; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:57:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EGv6jF081471 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1797441nzn for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=irxJTmz9Pgv61rmOrg3mGD9zZlyowRzYLm2LfOMciVxGPDAkgPYr5zAOV5uZ4GLqFcxa6vSGS8A/A3ik4vrqhZclZfAZDeahT3HAGUSVLNadvgOiTxi/O+A13ivNxZfkOPryqCLYHxEgu901fi9a+NrFw3YtugRUJDyxrlnLp0U= Received: by 10.36.222.74 with SMTP id u74mr2912386nzg; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:57:00 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5EGv6jF081471 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: A busk, looking for pictures, late16th c X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO .> I'm working on a very late Elizabethan with a drum farthingale, the >head-on-a platter ruff, you know that look. "All I need..." you know >you've said that... "is a busk". ... I'm on a quest for pictures, drawings of real turn of the 17th century busks (plus or minus 50 years). I've heard rumor of a tortoise shell one in/near London (google failed me), found the 18th c scrimshaw one and found a zillion people recommending paint stirrers as busks. Not what I'm looking for. What I hope to find is pictographic evidence on how to attach the busk points (laces). Do they go thru holes in the busk? do they join thru or to a corset? Are they simply attached to the sarcenet busk casing? Are busk laces attached permanently so that giving busk laces to your paramour is something best at home? Does the lace pass thru some combo of corset, casing & busk meaning that to acquire a lace means the lover has some detailed, intimate knowledge of womens' costume? Thanks h-costumers, --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 13:07:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EH7F8p028358 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:07:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EH6Rln098998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:06:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EH6QIb089564; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EH6LIf089509 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:06:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) Received: from [67.100.125.38] (helo=boris) by smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DiErk-0004VJ-Cv for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:06:20 -0400 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=aIY6+QTjBANRpV9Zm75MGBeJYoe7At+qMuO0BZyXis1ooSNA+IjBJ+DbqW2npiUl; Message-ID: <033b01c57103$6d0d35b0$0400a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A busk, looking for pictures, late16th c Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:06:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48efeb5de738a076d526d779d7eafaf936dfe6209a9096b523350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.100.125.38 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Subject: [h-cost] Re: A busk, looking for pictures, late16th c (snip) > I'm on a quest for pictures, drawings of real turn of the 17th century > busks (plus or minus 50 years). I've heard rumor of a tortoise shell one > in/near London (google failed me), found the 18th c scrimshaw one and > found a zillion people recommending paint stirrers as busks. Not > what I'm looking for. > > What I hope to find is pictographic evidence on how to attach the busk > points (laces). Do they go thru holes in the busk? do they join thru or > to a corset? Are they simply attached to the sarcenet busk casing? > Are busk laces attached permanently so that giving busk laces to your > paramour is something best at home? Does the lace pass thru some combo of > corset, casing & busk meaning that to acquire a lace means the > lover has some detailed, intimate knowledge of womens' costume? > > Thanks h-costumers, > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com I've got pictures somewhere, and I'll try to find and post them, of the attachments. I've seen holes in the busk that correspond to eyelets in the corset, with ribbon points to thread through both and tie. That's the method I use for my 17th cen. corsets. I've also seen one that seemed to have an extra long casing for the busk, with eyelets through both coset and busk pocket, so that the ribbon didn't pass through the busk at all, but closed the busk pocket. The best pictures of very early busks I have found by haunting the antique auction sites. I actually own a few, but the earliest one I have is from the late 18th century. It's a bit larger than the ones I use for my 17th cen. corsets, or for the earlier 18th cen. ones, for that matter. Melusine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 13:10:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EHAD7r028429 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EH9RVD099373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:09:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EH9QY4092096; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:09:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from p03m105.mxlogic.net (p03m105.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5EH9Mgb092033 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:09:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [66.179.109.174] (HELO p01i174.mxlogic.net) by p03m105.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.9.0-24p5) with SMTP id 24f0fa24.947788720.18157.p03m105.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:09:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20785 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2005 17:09:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com) (199.184.176.8) by p01i174.mxlogic.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 2005 17:09:21 -0000 Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:09:02 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:08:58 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F537@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Check the V&A Thread-Index: AcVxA8Cmc+AAdd9cQfixaNNl5UOhGA== From: "McClure, Kate" To: , "ICG-D" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2005 17:09:02.0095 (UTC) FILETIME=[C30989F0:01C57103] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005051801)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [66.179.109.174] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Check the V&A X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j5EHAD7r028429 Status: RO Hello! There is a wonderful on-line exhibit at the Victoria and Albert museum, with some of Queen Maud of Norway's gowns. Early 1900's stuff, very nice! Kate McClure _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 13:25:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EHPVbD028647 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:25:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EHOaka001345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:24:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EHOS2q004765; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:24:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk ([193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EHOLEG004161 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:24:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j5EHNhd27361.; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:23:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:23:43 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:23:33 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Check the V&A Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5EHOLEG004161 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for pointing this out, Kate. The url is http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1333_styleandsplendour/index.html Anecdote about Queen Maud (we have family friends in Norway from when my father was stationed there at the end of WW2) - Apparently when travelling to and from England by sea she used to sit in the passenger lounge knitting. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com 14/06/2005 18:08 >>> Hello! There is a wonderful on-line exhibit at the Victoria and Albert museum, with some of Queen Maud of Norway's gowns. Early 1900's stuff, very nice! Kate McClure _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 13:54:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EHsfF6031284 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:54:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EHrvDC004620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:53:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EHrtfk028888; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:53:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EHrqBj028767 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:53:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so2912308wra for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:53:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=feID0GscPMxXjOaPQW8SHv3FDxcpJ7rGQSEgAhKLcS0eNtMtAjs7nnzRhX0pbZE4VCEHn71qaUmld2En5Suf78z8gDsuvi1ucr8WC0ElezDxAcwhw3koycK7dZyjo8uHM1fTFRqIWzSUsrCnaSveMzk3Cv0Ylt3BU5Uc7OTyWao= Received: by 10.54.31.48 with SMTP id e48mr3359795wre; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050614105324e7d891@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:53:46 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Check the V&A In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5EHrqBj028767 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is also a book about the exhibit. I read about it in Piecework? Threads? They both come to my house within a day or two of each other and I sometimes can't remember what I read in which one. LynnD On 6/14/05, Kate M Bunting wrote: > Thanks for pointing this out, Kate. The url is http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1333_styleandsplendour/index.html > > Anecdote about Queen Maud (we have family friends in Norway from when my father was stationed there at the end of WW2) - Apparently when travelling to and from England by sea she used to sit in the passenger lounge knitting. > > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com 14/06/2005 18:08 >>> > Hello! > > There is a wonderful on-line exhibit at the Victoria and Albert museum, > with some of Queen Maud of Norway's gowns. Early 1900's stuff, very > nice! > > Kate McClure > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 14:06:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EI600T031363 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:06:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EI54Nr006093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:05:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EI50pI038350; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:05:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5EI4sQp038263 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:04:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [66.179.109.174] (HELO p01i174.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.9.0-24p5) with SMTP id 94c1fa24.916327344.19521.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:04:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23457 invoked from network); 14 Jun 2005 18:04:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com) (199.184.176.8) by p01i174.mxlogic.net with SMTP; 14 Jun 2005 18:04:53 -0000 Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:04:09 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:04:09 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F543@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: chinese parasols and beads Thread-Index: AcVxCj4w1eOSiKRNQCG7lZL128djogAALElA From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Jun 2005 18:04:10.0213 (UTC) FILETIME=[76D44950:01C5710B] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005051801)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [66.179.109.174] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5EI4sQp038263 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: chinese parasols and beads X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah well... I was hoping that there was a miracle out there that would strip it off without removing it. *snip* Just a passing thought. Have you tried softening the paint? I don't know if it would work in this instance, but I've had good luck with Goo Gone(tm) removing things and leaving the base color intact. It also hasn't harmed any of my fabric (yet, knock wood). Kate McClure Who manages to complicate projects without any outside help, whether they need it or not! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 15:35:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EJZXQM014338 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:35:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EJYVhK015623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:34:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EJYN5s007703; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:34:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from swiftsure.concentric.com (swiftsure.concentric.com [207.155.252.156]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EJYF6K007557 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:34:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by swiftsure.concentric.com id PAA29928; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:34:10 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506141934.PAA29928@swiftsure.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:34:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506141754.j5EHruCI028897@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5EJYF6K007557 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] new belly styles, modern fashion X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ya know, of all the stupid and ugly fashions to be seen out there, this is the only one that really offends me. The others, like boxers showing above pants and mohawk hairdos I can just quietly snigger at. A thong showing above hip hugger pants is just gross - and even more gross on a heavy girl. Julie > > Last summer, it was *thongs* showing above the waistband. UGH! This year > it's mostly boxers. Or often a fake waistband that looks like underpants. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 16:15:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EKFIdc019071 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EKEXn8020271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:14:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EKEQad039465; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:14:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5EKELGo039317 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:14:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 29817 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2005 20:14:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fETVbSEIlbOpYwWlvd5cmYp+QK6uAeOv1ro3QRHrgiwp9G72U3boVtPikNp/KEdLaiwUtBkVMimfZnR4DtxSYQYY/JF/MoUhZZY9UgvX2VgeOqq2FDzZOpreYuAQe5RDG4mqdCEMnASJyz2D52J7h6fN5iQDr73uP+T/sPagI9Q= ; Message-ID: <20050614201415.29815.qmail@web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31014.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:14:15 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:14:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Check the V&A To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8296995c050614105324e7d891@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, It's listed on the site for 30 pound British. To rich for me right now (DARN IT) Such work! Thanks for the heads up, Chris G. Lynn Downward wrote: There is also a book about the exhibit. I read about it in Piecework? Threads? They both come to my house within a day or two of each other and I sometimes can't remember what I read in which one. LynnD On 6/14/05, Kate M Bunting wrote: > Thanks for pointing this out, Kate. The url is http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/1333_styleandsplendour/index.html > > Anecdote about Queen Maud (we have family friends in Norway from when my father was stationed there at the end of WW2) - Apparently when travelling to and from England by sea she used to sit in the passenger lounge knitting. > > > Kate Bunting > Librarian and 17th century reenactor > > >>> kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com 14/06/2005 18:08 >>> > Hello! > > There is a wonderful on-line exhibit at the Victoria and Albert museum, > with some of Queen Maud of Norway's gowns. Early 1900's stuff, very > nice! > > Kate McClure > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 16:59:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EKxDWG019365 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:59:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5EKwF8x025278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EKw5QD074319; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:58:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EKvurH074152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:58:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5EKrXlR002336 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:53:33 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:53:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42AF44D0.2060004@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:57:52 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Houppelande sleeves X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Folks! I'm working on a theory. The theory is that if a houppelande has trumpet or angelwing sleeves (these are the big open sleeves, not with a cuff) then they are always at least as long as the hem of the body of the houppelande, if not longer. Never a knee-length man's houppelande with sleeves only to the waist or a woman's floor-or-longer with sleeves only to the knee. Have you run into any medieval contradictions to this theory? (For example, my wedding houp is in violation of this: http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/fandc.jpg (excuse: I bought the fabric to make *one* houp and then we decided we wanted matching ones... and it was 8 years ago....) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "And the people next door oppress me all night long. I tell them, I work all day, a man's got to have some time to learn to play the tuba. That's oppression, that is. If I'm not under the heel of the oppressor, I don't know who is." -- Terry Pratchett, _Guards, Guards_ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 17:39:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ELdELq019747 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:39:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ELcDQr029803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:38:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ELcCOX004703; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ELc7Bf004591 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:38:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005061421380101400gn82me>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:38:01 +0000 Message-ID: <005b01c57129$5c7cd590$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.3.1.2.20050613083811.02607ec8@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1890s and Social Classes Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:38:10 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Kayta! I forgot about rayon. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 17:51:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ELpM1Y019815 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:51:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ELoPci030943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:50:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ELoOtv013661; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:50:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ELoKGh013537 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cozit@comcast.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pcp0011320218pcs.elictc01.md.comcast.net[69.250.56.198]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with ESMTP id <2005061421501401600sqih1e>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:50:14 +0000 Message-ID: <42AF5111.5080006@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:50:09 -0400 From: Cozit / Liz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200506140143.j5E1h1j3073174@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200506140143.j5E1h1j3073174@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Stomacher question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The 1640 stays reminded me of a question I've had for a while (and if the answer's come up again in the last school year, I've managed to miss it in my skimming)... Does anyone happen to know when the use of stomachers *behind front-lacings* came about? -Elisabeth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 18:00:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5EM0Fhh019880 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:00:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ELxLHt031927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:59:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ELxDZr020110; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:59:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41907.mail.yahoo.com (web41907.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5ELx14P019838 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:59:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 64852 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Jun 2005 21:58:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VikcwRR19phmxziT0qJ6y1vf7C0HcCMNgrZEs75tXexAn71NQpe1mROYQ6kHf3pQjn0BXJC2t2HPIUyvv8HIG67ACi6U6yxnM6dsDVrBnwudkpKj/rnR6MOA04MD0FVDW+68rDUUvMVGqtAOXMhQ9j1O7qhNYoMl8hdmmKbPwsg= ; Message-ID: <20050614215854.64850.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.107] by web41907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:58:54 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:58:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506141754.j5EHruCI028897@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 402 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The new thing this year is to wear 2 or even 3 tank tops in contrasting colours. I used to do this when I was a teen back in the late 1980's... Turquoise over Hot pink over Neon yellow was one Combo I used.... > Various bits of puppy fat are proudly on display in clothes - often > tracksuits with baggy legs are worn low on the hips, and (whisper it ) > underpants show above the waistband - so ugly. I agree it is awlful to look at! I think all low riders are ugly I do not care how good your figure is you just look cheap and easy to me not one who wants any respect.... Onto the next question.... I have a bunch of beading to do, too many projects and not enough time. I know they exist but no idea what the name of the little machine that does it is called that appliques beads onto fabric surfaces. I am fairly certain it's not practical for the application, but for the excercise, does anyone out there know what its called, where one would find such a beast and what cost might it be? Thanks! Are you talking about the Beaddazzler??? try Possibly Hobby Lobby, or Michael's as for price I do not remember what they cost. best guestimate between 25-50 USD depending on Model... its only a guess though.. Hope it helps/// Eirine -- Thanks for the info! At the last SCA event I went to (I'm not technically a member, I just like to turn up at the costuming events), there was this lady with this "superhumeral" that was made out of padded gold lame with about ten pounds of glass beads sewn on it in no apparent pattern. Everybody was giving her all these compliments, but I thought it looked terrible, because I'd already assumed they were made out of metal. Now I feel vindicated. :) THE SAC is such a funny place to play! One does not have to be a member to play, get awards, help out etc... That event was part of what sparked my initial questions; I sat in this class that was supposed to be Roman and Byzantine costume, (Turned out to be more like Greek/early Roman costume, not that I mind, but I wish the title of the class had reflected the actual subject matter) and everything the teacher said about Byzantine costume contradicted what I'd already been able to find out from my meager research. I would love to have been there and gotten some of her resources..... I have been finding that Nyzantine is such a fussy subject as far a sschools of thought.. I am all confused by it! Didn't the Egyptians wear a metal collar sort of like the superhumeral? How was that made? I do not know about a metal Collar. however I have been trying to Find a Beaded Version with Lapis Lazuli and other beads in it..I once heard about.. or am I hearing things???? I am new to the Whole Byzantine, Egyptian garb.. since its probably going to be a really HOT and Muggy summer here in Windsor I thught I would try to vary my garb into something other than gypsy and Turkish... Any Help amnd Suggestions woudl be greatly appreciated for Byzantine and Egyptian.. Thanks! Thanks Satine --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 19:31:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ENVfET020294 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:31:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ENULLE042078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENUIIL079484; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:30:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EJ5kRc085065 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:05:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-66-31-43-36.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005061419053901400gjrh7e>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:05:39 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:05:39 -0400 From: Lauren Walker To: h-costume Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Boston Area Sari Trunk Show X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For those near Cambridge, Massachusetts: On Saturday and Sunday, June 25 and 26, from 11 am to 5 pm each day, I will be hosting a sari trunk show with Melinda Williams of Sari Safari (sarisafari.com). Melinda will be showing her latest stock from her recent trip to India; expect many beautiful yet affordable silks, plus new tribal cottons, and other surprises. I will also have on hand some Indian block-printed yard goods, dupattas, and cotton print saris for those who are interested. Please e-mail me off-list for directions to my house. I hope to see some of you then! Best, Lauren -- Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net -- "One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train." -- Morihei Ueshiba _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 19:32:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ENWKiP020300 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ENVhd8042252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENVh9P080255; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from thog.systems.wvu.edu (thog.systems.wvu.edu [157.182.232.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EK068A027788 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:00:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by thog.systems.wvu.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5EJxTaO017500 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:59:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:59:29 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:59:12 -0400 From: "Rhonda Donaldson" To: , Subject: Re: [h-cost] pride and prejudice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Suzi, Matthew McFadyen (sp) YUUUUMMMMM Worth seeing that one I think. Is he going to dive into the drink like Colin Firth? Nice Rhonda Rhonda Donaldson LTA II e-Reserves Jr. Guru in Training Circulation Department Downtown Campus Library P O Box 6069 Morgantown, WV 26506 293-4040 x4094 rhonda.donaldson@mail.wvu.edu "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." --Frank Herbert "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." - Eleanor Roosevelt >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 6/7/2005 2:22:36 PM >>> At 20:13 07/06/2005 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, >Have you seen the trailer of the new Pride and Prejudice? >The time is set to 1795. >How do you think the costumes are? >http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/prideandprejudice.html >Bjarne Personal opinion only. I think these costumes bear very little relationship to 1795. Judi Dench, who is "posh" is wearing clothes from the 1780's at the latest, and so are many of the older women. No attempt seems to have been made to give the leading actresses anything like the right period hair styles. The dresses look limp and skimpy, and the coat that Keira Knightley is seen in beggars description. I for one will not be paying good money to see this. There are enough fashion plates and paintings about for the designer to look at. Why didn't he/she? Or if they did, the interpretation is not what mine would have been. Can you tell I don't like it? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 19:32:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ENWVG8020304 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ENVqDK042284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENVm8E080322; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:31:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo2.socket.net (mo2.socket.net [216.106.88.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EK7QCc033625 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:07:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo2.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FD0356D0 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:07:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A4981D4A1 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:07:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles, modern fashion Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:07:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <00cd01c570e3$6617cc90$0400a8c0@compaqub> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The next step in fashion is the late 70s, early `80s, so there might be some tailoring. Disco, revamped to Punk (or puke depending on the style) De -----Original Message----- I keep hearing that they're bringing back the super-preppy, tailored and detailed fashions of the 50s and early 60s. Why don't I see it? Grumble. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 19:32:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ENWgxu020307 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:32:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ENW0ab042304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENW0WC080454; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EKGu7n041473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5EKGoa7020142 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:16:50 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:16:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <65117.165.236.184.195.1118780210.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <200506141934.PAA29928@swiftsure.concentric.com> References: <200506141754.j5EHruCI028897@net.indra.com> <200506141934.PAA29928@swiftsure.concentric.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:16:50 -0500 (CDT) From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] translation please ... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can anyone translate this for me please? .... specifically: From: http://www.istorija.lt/le/ Merkienë, Irena Regina; Pautieniûtë-Banionienë, Marija. Lietuvininkø pirðtinës : kultûrø kryþkelëje, Vilnius. 1998. 212 p. – (Lietuvos etnologija; 3). (Tekstai lietuviø ir anglø kalbomis). It is a book about gloves found in ancient Lithuanian. Please .... help! I NEED this book! :) Chiara the glove maker _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 19:39:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ENd7uZ020337 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:39:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ENcQIl042785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:38:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENcQ85083722; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:38:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENcN07083662 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:38:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005061423381701500su4eae>; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 23:38:17 +0000 Message-ID: <00bc01c5713a$29e4f5c0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles, modern fashion Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:38:26 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The disco fashion are here for this summer. Have you seen the Old Navy commercials for the Big Skirts? LOL! Their claim they are something new. I had a big disco skirt like this in the late 1970s that I made from a pattern by the Big 3 companies. My husband died laughing when he saw the commercial. He said, "You used to wear a skirt like that when we went disco dancing." I do have to admit they are fun skirts to wear. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 19:49:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ENnqYG020369 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:49:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ENnAAY043703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:49:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENn9kM089578; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:49:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENmpli089442 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from perronnelle@earthlink.net) Received: from user-12hc6s3.cable.mindspring.com ([69.22.27.131] helo=[192.168.1.100]) by pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DiL9G-0002BT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:48:50 -0400 Message-ID: <42AF6CDA.7020603@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:48:42 -0500 From: Charlene Charette User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040616 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] translation please ... References: <200506141754.j5EHruCI028897@net.indra.com> <200506141934.PAA29928@swiftsure.concentric.com> <65117.165.236.184.195.1118780210.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <65117.165.236.184.195.1118780210.squirrel@165.236.184.195> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: > Can anyone translate this for me please? .... specifically: > > From: http://www.istorija.lt/le/ > > Merkienë, Irena Regina; Pautieniûtë-Banionienë, Marija. Lietuvininkø > pirðtinës : kultûrø kryþkelëje, Vilnius. 1998. 212 p. – (Lietuvos > etnologija; 3). (Tekstai lietuviø ir anglø kalbomis). > > It is a book about gloves found in ancient Lithuanian. Please .... > help! I NEED this book! :) According to the site, the title is "Lithuanian Gloves in Lithuania Minor". There are links to the forward and conclusions in English: http://www.istorija.lt/le/merkiene1998_foreword.html http://www.istorija.lt/le/merkiene1998_conclusions.html I checked the OCLC, and there are six copies in the US (none close to Texas, unfortunately) and one in Canada. You might want to try interlibrary loan before buying a copy; that's what I often do. The OCLC translates the title as "Gloves of Lithuania Minor: at the cross-roads of cultures". The listing also states that the book is in Lithuanian and English. --Charlene -- Signs that you're a Reenactor: No one will attend a historical film with you. -- http://www.gwerin.org.uk/silly/signs_that_you.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 19:54:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ENsAjF020394 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:54:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ENrXok043997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:53:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENrVxH091782; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:53:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ENrScI091733 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:53:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28537 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:11:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:11:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Houppelande sleeves In-Reply-To: <42AF44D0.2060004@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 14 Jun 2005, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > I'm working on a theory. The theory is that if a houppelande has > trumpet or angelwing sleeves (these are the big open sleeves, not with > a cuff) then they are always at least as long as the hem of the body > of the houppelande, if not longer. > > Never a knee-length man's houppelande with sleeves only to the waist > or a woman's floor-or-longer with sleeves only to the knee. > > Have you run into any medieval contradictions to this theory? Any theory that includes "always" and "never" is an easy target. ;-) I gave it 10 minutes at my bookshelf and found some exceptions. One clearly secular example being in Gaston Phoebus's Hunting Book, a scene in which the lord is instructing his hunters; the lord is in a sumptuous floor-length houppelande of blue-and-gold brocade with sleeves noticeably shorter. You'll find a good lot of exceptions in brasses, as well. Do you have Scott's Visual History of Costume? See figures 42, 48, 52. These are middle-to-upper-class people, of course; very long sleeves would have been a mark of great wealth. Even on the brasses, though, the later you go, the longer the sleeves, so perhaps it's a time thing (and they're eventually replaced with bag sleeves, which do routinely come shorter, as you noticed). Some exceptions are not as clear-cut, e.g. wide sleeves that hang only a foot or so off the wrist; are these still trumpet sleeves? (See Scott, fig. 40, for an example.) For that matter, you'll never find a "waist-length" sleeve by definition, since your *elbows* reach to your waist, and any wide sleeve will hang lower. All that said, I think it's safe to say your rule of thumb describes typical style, though not universal. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 20:12:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5F0CklY020468 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5F0C71J046048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:12:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0C7xc001113; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:12:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51303.mail.yahoo.com (web51303.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.169]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5F0C3rJ001018 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:12:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 11115 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Jun 2005 00:11:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PwIAznnsApd2CSL/Fv2KhO0QjaLBSVdqi3pyNjk/y7s8cpYzIF9imhW4MxSjSZWE8OEc3SzBa9EmQ8Sy5VRap+DwJn2qtN8VNB4nm1HXY28nhets70twVSxmn3Virqd1Ic1iw/g4OMa/185csLVyTXH5+uiQBDDBhLBiBdbmvy8= ; Message-ID: <20050615001157.11113.qmail@web51303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.165.183] by web51303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:11:56 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:11:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050614215854.64850.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Egyptian broad collar X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Eyptian bead collars are fairly broad, about a hands-width, and all of beads with thread holding them together (replacement in most to all of the museum holdings I've seen strung), and counterweights in the back, as it is open like a 'C'. The two ends of the C hang down over either shoulder and have a weight on each to balance all the beads in front. Semi-precious stones, gold, and faiance, mostly. Ann in CT visits the Met --- Lady Satine wrote: > > Didn't the Egyptians wear a metal collar sort of > like the superhumeral? How was that made? > > I do not know about a metal Collar. however I have > been trying to Find a Beaded Version with Lapis > Lazuli and other beads in it..I once heard about.. > or am I hearing things???? > > Satine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 20:24:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5F0OfMY020533 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5F0Irl1046528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:18:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0Ir1X004409; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:18:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0IoDw004326 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:18:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from ches (c-67-163-120-131.hsd1.tx.comcast.net[67.163.120.131]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005061500184401500sncque>; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:18:44 +0000 Message-ID: <06bb01c5713f$fe379120$6a01a8c0@ches> From: "Chiara" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200506141754.j5EHruCI028897@net.indra.com> <200506141934.PAA29928@swiftsure.concentric.com><65117.165.236.184.195.1118780210.squirrel@165.236.184.195> <42AF6CDA.7020603@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] translation please ... Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:07:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks! I just did not know which translator to use to get the title. :) (`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸¸.·'´)¸.· '´)¸.·'´) «·.·*¨`·¤ Chiara ¤·´¨*·.·» (¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´`'·.¸)`'· .¸)`'·.¸) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlene Charette" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] translation please ... : Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio wrote: : : > Can anyone translate this for me please? .... specifically: : > : > From: http://www.istorija.lt/le/ : > : > Merkienë, Irena Regina; Pautieniûtë-Banionienë, Marija. Lietuvininkø : > pirðtinës : kultûrø kryþkelëje, Vilnius. 1998. 212 p. – (Lietuvos : > etnologija; 3). (Tekstai lietuviø ir anglø kalbomis). : > : > It is a book about gloves found in ancient Lithuanian. Please .... : > help! I NEED this book! :) : : According to the site, the title is "Lithuanian Gloves in Lithuania Minor". : : There are links to the forward and conclusions in English: : : http://www.istorija.lt/le/merkiene1998_foreword.html : http://www.istorija.lt/le/merkiene1998_conclusions.html : : I checked the OCLC, and there are six copies in the US (none close to : Texas, unfortunately) and one in Canada. You might want to try : interlibrary loan before buying a copy; that's what I often do. The : OCLC translates the title as "Gloves of Lithuania Minor: at the : cross-roads of cultures". The listing also states that the book is in : Lithuanian and English. : : --Charlene : : -- : Signs that you're a Reenactor: No one will attend a historical film : with you. -- http://www.gwerin.org.uk/silly/signs_that_you.htm : _______________________________________________ : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 20:37:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5F0axG7020652 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5F0ZvNK047668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:35:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0Zut1012362; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:35:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0ZsYB012292 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:35:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005061500354701300rnq1de>; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:35:47 +0000 Message-ID: <00d401c57142$3251d090$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050615001157.11113.qmail@web51303.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Egyptian broad collar Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:35:56 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Satine, The name of it is called a pectoral necklace. I have seen one in an exhibit with lapis. This p. necklace I didn't see counter-weight in the back and the two ends almost met. The pectoral necklace is different from a regular necklace because it looks like a broad collar. Where regular necklace just hang and do not lay broadly on the chest, shoulders, and back. In the exhibit book, "Treasures of Tutankhamun", there is a pectoral necklace with the description: Plate 13: This superb gold collar, inlaid with colored glass, was placed on the chest of Tut.'s mummy. In the form of the vulture goddess Nekhbet, it was intended to provide magical protection. The pectoral necklace for the outer coffin (maybe middle coffin) has lapis on it. The coffin is ormentented with lapis on several places. The book does show a necklace (not pectoral) with lapis. I have also seen the pectoral necklace worn by Rames in film, The Ten Commandments. What a beautiful piece of work! This piece is owned by a private collector. If you didn't know it was made in the 20th Century, you would think it was an original to Ancient Egypt. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 20:49:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5F0n8go020719 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:49:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5F0mE8h048585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:48:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0mDTm017897; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0mAnp017839 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005061500480401300rubu6e>; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:48:04 +0000 Message-ID: <00da01c57143$e8f90ab0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050615001157.11113.qmail@web51303.mail.yahoo.com> <00d401c57142$3251d090$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Egyptian broad collar Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:48:12 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A nice link about pectoral necklaces is http://www.sis.gov.eg/women/fashion/html/anc5.htm Not many images but some interesting descriptions. Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 20:55:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5F0tg5W020747 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5F0s6ee049012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:54:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0s6go020649; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:54:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F0s47n020596 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:54:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from yourw04gtxld67 (pcp0010006139pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net[69.241.147.155]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005061500535701400gfc0ie>; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 00:53:57 +0000 Message-ID: <00e401c57144$bc10f570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050615001157.11113.qmail@web51303.mail.yahoo.com><00d401c57142$3251d090$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <00da01c57143$e8f90ab0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Egyptian broad collar Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:54:07 -0400 Organization: The Costume Gallery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, this is too cool! A King Tut exhibit in LA. Go see: http://www.kingtut.org/ Penny Ladnier, owner The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 14 21:06:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5F16iai020793 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:06:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5F160wC049713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:06:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F160UO026044; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:06:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5F15uCo026014 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:05:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5F11XlR005174 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:01:33 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42AF7EF2.2030400@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:05:54 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Houppelande sleeves References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin Netherton wrote: > Any theory that includes "always" and "never" is an easy target. ;-) It's the worm on the hook of inquiry. (Worked, too!) Thank you! > I gave it 10 minutes at my bookshelf and found some exceptions. One > clearly secular example being in Gaston Phoebus's Hunting Book, a scene in > which the lord is instructing his hunters; the lord is in a sumptuous > floor-length houppelande of blue-and-gold brocade with sleeves noticeably > shorter. I'll hunt that down. I know the images have been webbed. > You'll find a good lot of exceptions in brasses, as well. Do you have > Scott's Visual History of Costume? I've had it on a booksearch for years, but it's always way too expensive, sigh. (The specific centuries 14th-15th c. one, that is. The survey one is far less useful, but easily available, last time I checked.) > All that said, I think it's safe to say your rule of thumb describes > typical style, though not universal. Okay. I've been mulling it over as another example of "not enough fabric in the recreated clothes" problem, similar to women's houps that stop at the ankle, etc. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "And the people next door oppress me all night long. I tell them, I work all day, a man's got to have some time to learn to play the tuba. That's oppression, that is. If I'm not under the heel of the oppressor, I don't know who is." -- Terry Pratchett, _Guards, Guards_ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 10:42:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FEg0wp023678 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:42:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FEeqgx022108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:40:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FEekk5086200; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FEehgv086120 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:40:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.199.413aaa6c (15889) for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:40:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R40 (fwm-r40.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.144]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID84-3e1142b03de1194; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:40:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:39:32 -0400 Message-Id: <8C73FCF2D96852A-63C-1BCBA@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200506142353.j5ENrYg0091797@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:39:32 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200506142353.j5ENrYg0091797@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.144 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/940/Wed Jun 15 00:58:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/940/Wed Jun 15 00:58:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Satine wrote: I would love to have been there and gotten some of her resources..... I have been finding that Nyzantine is such a fussy subject as far a sschools of thought.. I am all confused by it! My point was that I don't think that teacher had any sources. She seemed knowledgeable about Greek and Roman costume, but she only mentioned Byzantium because half of her class was dressed that way (the title of her class _did_ include Byzantium), but I don't think she really knew anything about it. You must have missed our recent conversation about Byzantine costumes; I'll e-mail you off list with a summary, or you can check the archives. :) Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 12:58:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FGw3L0029275 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:58:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FGuvLI039366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:56:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FGur86095832; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FGum1t095784 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:56:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=iLltiVmqHJLSU8OLoLfmH5DW3pZUmHnvqi4Bb1Vtyt1/GjN90gD7s6EWp3HNNyJs; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DibC3-00010u-Pb for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:56:47 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615125628.020a7ce0@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:56:30 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22c16d21f5438be4b6222a64747a1061cd8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Low Riders (WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 402) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drea Leed has a hilarious article on her costume website about the "Superwide" style of pants (i.e. low riders). She wrote it several years ago in response to my comment that future costume historians will wonder "How DID they keep their pants up?" As far as I know it's not linked to anything else on her site, but I checked and it's still there: http://costume.dm.net/superwides.htm At 05:58 PM 6/14/2005, you wrote: > > Various bits of puppy fat are proudly on display in clothes - often > > tracksuits with baggy legs are worn low on the hips, and (whisper it ) > > underpants show above the waistband - so ugly. > >I agree it is awlful to look at! I think all low riders are ugly I do not >care how good your figure is you just look cheap and easy to me not one >who wants any respect.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 13:13:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FHDIWS001476 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:13:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FHCLrJ041087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FHCGK9008010; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FHC6DR007820 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SNSpies@aol.com) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1f6.bca0db4 (3948) for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:11:40 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <1f6.bca0db4.2fe1bb4b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:11:39 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_1f6.bca0db4.2fe1bb4b_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fwd: new book on Anglo-Saxon textiles X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --part1_1f6.bca0db4.2fe1bb4b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rogers, Penelope. "Cloth and Clothing in Anglo-Saxon England, AD 450-700". 250 p, 100 illus, paperback. 1902771540, $39.95. Council for British Archaeology, December 2005 from The David Brown Book Company (_www.davidbrownbookco.com_ (http://www.davidbrownbookco.com/) ): This archaeological study of textiles and costume considers all aspects of early Anglo-Saxon clothing -- how textiles were made in the early Anglo-Saxon settlements, how the cloth was fashioned into garments and the nature of the clasps and jewellery with which the cloths were worn. Drawing on the author's 38 years of experience, and a database of 3,800 finds, it includes a review of the primary evidence from 162 Anglo-Saxon cemeteries, where small fragments of the dead's clothes have been preserved with brooches, pins, and necklaces. Regional styles of dress, the social and cultural meaning behind changing fashions, the role of women in textile production, and Scandinavian and Continental influences help to place the study in its broadest historical and archaeological context. The volume is amply illustrated with line drawings of craft processes and reconstructions of individual costumes. Contents Introduction Manufacturing textiles Textile products Clothing accessories Reconstructing the clothing Drawing conclusions Bibliography Index (This will be a grand companion book to Owen-Crocker's newly-revised and edited, "Anglo-Saxon Dress and Clothing".) Please pass this information to any groups who might be interested. Nancy <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Nancy Spies Arelate Studio _www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html_ (http://www.weavershand.com/ArelateStudio.html) Ingvild Josefsdatter, OL Bright Hills, Atlantia "But if by a 'Liberal' they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a 'Liberal,' then I'm proud to say I'm a 'Liberal'." John F. Kennedy, 14 Sept 1960 --part1_1f6.bca0db4.2fe1bb4b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --part1_1f6.bca0db4.2fe1bb4b_boundary-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 14:11:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FIBqru001969 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FIAqtm047960 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:10:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FIAnWD054225; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:10:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FIAAaC053646 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:10:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DicL2-000EXZ-92 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:10:08 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:08:40 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles/ things aren't always what they seem... References: <2059.198.93.212.47.1118717891.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <2059.198.93.212.47.1118717891.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO basyefelton@floodcity.net wrote >> >> In a message dated 6/13/2005 6:35:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >> audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: >> >> The new thing >> this year is to wear 2 or even 3 tank tops in contrasting colours. >> >> >> >> Now see, this is funny to me, in a way. My daughter wears shirts that >> /look/ like she has on several different shirts layered over each other. > > but sometimes you just never >> really know what is being worn unless you have the garment(s) in front >> of you to get up close and personal with. >> >> :) >> ~Kimberley > >My daughter has a couple tees which are faded and worn to a thread it >seems, but she bought them that way. they are called tissue tees and if >you go into some of the stores, maybe GAP? you will see tissue tanks or >whatever they call them, sold to be worn over each other. they would be >considered indecent if worn alone, they are see through. Kitty > I was looking for jeans last week, and seeing "pre-distressed" ones with fake tears and worn patches. I thought, if I didn't mind going out in jeans that looked like that I wouldn't be bothering to buy new ones! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 15:33:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FJXGSZ002618 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FJW8GS056424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:32:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJW5OD016542; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:32:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJW0dI016425 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.183]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050615193149.VWSZ13979.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:31:49 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050615142747.02c01260@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:31:15 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> References: <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have seen little other than the Arnold images. Please keep us posted on what you find out. Beth At 01:00 PM 6/15/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:42:23 -0400 >From: M Stewart >Subject: [h-cost] question about stockings > > >Hi there folks. > >We over on the H-knit list have been having a 'discussion' about the >stockings of Eleanora de Toledo. We have hashed the English resources to >death. I'm wondering if anyone on this list knows some Spanish or Italian >costume resources - or better yet textile related journals - that have >published an analysis of these items. > >I really am looking for a thorough analysis of them. Like I said, Spanish >or Italian resources would be where I would expect to find something, and >be able to read it. > >Any ideas... I don't even need a specific article. Just a journal name or >historical society to start my queries with. I already have plans of >speaking to the museum. > >Thanks, >Mari / Bridgette > >Mari Stewart >Webmaster >College of Veterinary Medicine >Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 15:39:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FJdsKa002666 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:39:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FJcv9w057131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:38:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJcrXd021560; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:38:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (granite1.mail.cornell.edu [128.253.83.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FEgPQB087321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:42:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5FEjfKe008120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050615103658.01950960@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:42:23 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/940/Wed Jun 15 00:58:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] question about stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi there folks. We over on the H-knit list have been having a 'discussion' about the stockings of Eleanora de Toledo. We have hashed the English resources to death. I'm wondering if anyone on this list knows some Spanish or Italian costume resources - or better yet textile related journals - that have published an analysis of these items. I really am looking for a thorough analysis of them. Like I said, Spanish or Italian resources would be where I would expect to find something, and be able to read it. Any ideas... I don't even need a specific article. Just a journal name or historical society to start my queries with. I already have plans of speaking to the museum. Thanks, Mari / Bridgette Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 15:40:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FJeDii002672 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:40:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FJdI0c057177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJdHmj021866; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:39:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FEjReL089691 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:45:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_purify_dev1.2.) id 6.a9.759303cc (15865) for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R40 (fwm-r40.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.144]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-3df942b03da52f4; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:39:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:39:32 -0400 Message-Id: <8C73FCF2D96852A-63C-1BCBA@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200506142353.j5ENrYg0091797@net.indra.com> Received: from 216.23.116.42 by FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:39:32 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200506142353.j5ENrYg0091797@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.144 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/940/Wed Jun 15 00:58:59 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Byzantine costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Satine wrote: I would love to have been there and gotten some of her resources..... I have been finding that Nyzantine is such a fussy subject as far a sschools of thought.. I am all confused by it! My point was that I don't think that teacher had any sources. She seemed knowledgeable about Greek and Roman costume, but she only mentioned Byzantium because half of her class was dressed that way (the title of her class _did_ include Byzantium), but I don't think she really knew anything about it. You must have missed our recent conversation about Byzantine costumes; I'll e-mail you off list with a summary, or you can check the archives. :) Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 15:42:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FJgme2002679 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FJer4I057397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJeqEg023199; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:40:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail8.mdx.safepages.com (mail8.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FHb1Tu027806 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:37:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 040401434B4; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:37:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.189.15.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.189.15]) by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0365B143430 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:35:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <015f01c571d0$d2dbbec0$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615125628.020a7ce0@pop.igc.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Low Riders (WAS: Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 402) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:36:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Laning" > Drea Leed has a hilarious article on her costume website about the > "Superwide" style of pants (i.e. low riders). She wrote it several years > ago in response to my comment that future costume historians will wonder > "How DID they keep their pants up?" As far as I know it's not linked to > anything else on her site, but I checked and it's still there: > > http://costume.dm.net/superwides.htm To me, the funniest thing about that website is that those are pretty much the same thoughts I had the first time I saw the style. Actually, I imagined some even wilder things, some of them involving those wallet chains that were also fashionable around the same time. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 16:00:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FK0Xcu002776 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:00:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FJxm0d059769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJxekK037763; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJxVHa037619 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-110-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.110.18]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5FJxD3J023551 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:59:16 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:59:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050615142747.02c01260@mail.alltel.net> References: <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have seen little other than the Arnold images. Please keep us posted on >what you find out. >We over on the H-knit list have been having a 'discussion' about the >>stockings of Eleanora de Toledo. We have hashed the English resources to >>death. I'm wondering if anyone on this list knows some Spanish or Italian >>costume resources - or better yet textile related journals - that have >>published an analysis of these items. >> >>I really am looking for a thorough analysis of them. Like I said, Spanish >>or Italian resources would be where I would expect to find something, and >>be able to read it. >> >>Any ideas... I don't even need a specific article. Just a journal name or >>historical society to start my queries with. I already have plans of >>speaking to the museum. Mr. Rutt's book on the history of hand knitting has a knitting pattern for these, in case this one isn't among the hashed. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 16:00:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FK0o5A002780 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:00:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FJxmBH059768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJxf93037776; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FJx081037183 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:59:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so21911wri for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=P7WU9Q56iMvB5rjU0ALNnSK1QMmh984pVN1vBQNN0WJrXEO/TAKYqgxUUoQOwxCBwgjxDdR/FfNQB7Enb2NimVgbv+4IGiQ33GYWF8W9QkSueBpSNBY0ZgnR4bMoX9jsR0kinNgCEey3VSJfjEFANPoq2T2eKliug+fDG4zggTA= Received: by 10.54.143.4 with SMTP id q4mr70898wrd; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0506151258578c0528@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:58:53 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Egyptian broad collar In-Reply-To: <00e401c57144$bc10f570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050615001157.11113.qmail@web51303.mail.yahoo.com> <00d401c57142$3251d090$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <00da01c57143$e8f90ab0$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> <00e401c57144$bc10f570$0200a8c0@yourw04gtxld67> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5FJx081037183 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, it also will travel to Ft. Lauderdale, Chicago and Philadelphia over the next two years. I can't wait to see it in Los Angeles though. that's as close as it gets to San Francisco. We plan to visit during Costume College at the end of July. LynnD On 6/14/05, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Oh, this is too cool! A King Tut exhibit in LA. Go see: > http://www.kingtut.org/ > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 16:29:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FKTqWP002996 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FKSuc0063355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:28:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FKSScj060780; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:28:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FKSOUO060697 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:28:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=KBeuZ5Ayp5QT+Pp5NbYxdpTQ3bkx3X0S4Tys37xB/Gwgf20AhUFJnaLR7WyJL/6t; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DieUp-0004y6-A9 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:28:23 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:28:05 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> References: <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22cd3353ae0c7ec2917e07f7c6c2c9938dd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:59 PM 6/15/2005, Kayta wrote: >>I have seen little other than the Arnold images. Please keep us posted on >>what you find out. > >>We over on the H-knit list have been having a 'discussion' about the >>>stockings of Eleanora de Toledo. We have hashed the English resources to >>>death. I'm wondering if anyone on this list knows some Spanish or Italian >>>costume resources - or better yet textile related journals - that have >>>published an analysis of these items. >Mr. Rutt's book on the history of hand knitting has a knitting pattern for >these, in case this one isn't among the hashed. It is indeed among those being discussed. Rutt's description is not very detailed, but several of us are working on alternative "redactions." I encourage anyone interested in historic knitting to join that list anyway : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/ I just checked with a friend who gave me the most recent citation of work on these stockings that she knows about: Janet Arnold's article (in English) in: "Moda ala corte dei Medici: gli abiti restaurati di Cosimo, Eleonora e don Garzia" by Piacenti, Kirsten A. and Chiarelli, Caterina. Florence, Centro Di, 1993. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 17:39:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FLcxuC003403 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:38:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FLbikH070995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:37:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FLbVNq015664; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FLbP6J015544 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPIVU5ROR495QXQV@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:37:18 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPIVU6CFRQ94K6Z6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:37:19 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:38:49 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B09FE9.9060305@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> We over on the H-knit list have been having a 'discussion' about the >> >>> stockings of Eleanora de Toledo. We have hashed the English >>> resources to >>> death. I'm wondering if anyone on this list knows some Spanish or >>> Italian >>> costume resources - or better yet textile related journals - that have >>> published an analysis of these items. >>> >>> I really am looking for a thorough analysis of them. Like I said, >>> Spanish >>> or Italian resources would be where I would expect to find >>> something, and >>> be able to read it. >>> >> > > Mr. Rutt's book on the history of hand knitting has a knitting pattern > for these, in case this one isn't among the hashed. > No, it doesn't. He explains the stitch patterns for the cuff and the leg/foot, but he does not give a worked out pattern for the whole piece. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 18:04:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FM441g003554 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:04:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FM3FZO074189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:03:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FM32Ne035861; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32612.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32612.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.239]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5FM2fa8035282 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dotsontwo@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 48182 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Jun 2005 22:02:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=DszkYQLWWXiG4pDm4RudZkfgqyN7W0ikIDAHUEIrD17pTz9PYX149Zas3hQECwcKSurOGi/SEHIOENNdcYWhzZLZBqzdheyMmvIeVTia4zCUxKsQW97pbe2BQFwvpeq23/+YD15+4gMD8t3qjxIG2+CaZHlyhQAY2v7JRrHw5RQ= ; Message-ID: <20050615220234.48180.qmail@web32612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.66.101.203] by web32612.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:02:34 PDT Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Pam Dotson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: new belly styles/ things aren't always what they seem... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/941/Wed Jun 15 12:13:38 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/13/2005 6:35:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: The new thing this year is to wear 2 or even 3 tank tops in contrasting colours. I've just spent the past few days shopping...The Gap is promoting this aggressively. --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 18:34:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FMYUJY003688 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:34:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FMXoCm078249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:33:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FMXl51059820; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:33:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay107-f30.bay107.hotmail.com [64.4.51.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FMXaEp059685 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:33:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms_lindy39@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:33:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 64.4.51.220 by by107fd.bay107.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:33:31 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.4.51.220] X-Originating-Email: [ms_lindy39@hotmail.com] X-Sender: ms_lindy39@hotmail.com From: "N n" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:33:31 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jun 2005 22:33:32.0192 (UTC) FILETIME=[42885200:01C571FA] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question on water stains on Bridal Satin and Costume Satin X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have just recently noticed some water stains on my Bridal Satin and my Costume satin. Is there anyway to get those out or what can I do to make it look better?This is my first time in working with this type of material. Does anyone have any input and without having to dry clean it at the moment. I need it this Saturday. Mary _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 18:41:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5FMfGVm003725 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:41:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5FMdxgP078883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:39:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FMdv8I064398; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5FMdp4E064327 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:39:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5FMdmG2016317 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:39:49 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.110.18] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-110-18.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.110.18]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5FMdiS6483162 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:39:49 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050615153801.026da688@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:39:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on water stains on Bridal Satin and Costume Satin In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have just recently noticed some water stains on my Bridal Satin and my >Costume satin. Is there anyway to get those out or what can I do to make >it look better? If the stains won't show, or if you can cut around them, ignore them. If not, maybe you could get the entire piece wet, so it will all be water stain colored. No, that's not a joke answer. If the piece can stand being wet, and try a little piece first, then this may be your answer. >This is my first time in working with this type of material. Does anyone >have any input and without having to dry clean it at the moment. I need it >this Saturday. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 15 23:00:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5G30Gox005149 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:00:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5G2woeJ002012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:58:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5G2wd9X070050; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5G2wZCb070014 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m111.in-tch.com [216.166.191.111]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5G2rH429654 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42B0EC2E.60900@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:04:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings References: <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've got a copy of that. Well, a photocopy. My local library managed to get it for me through ILL. I took full advantage of our scanner at work, so I've got pretty good images (regular and blown up) of the stocking details. I think they're considerably better than the ones in Rutt, although those aren't bad. I love the toe and heel details.... --sue (also on the h-knit list, but enough behind in her digests that she's missed the discussion...hmmm) Chris Laning wrote: > It is indeed among those being discussed. Rutt's description is not very > detailed, but several of us are working on alternative "redactions." I > encourage anyone interested in historic knitting to join that list > anyway : > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/ > > I just checked with a friend who gave me the most recent citation of > work on these stockings that she knows about: Janet Arnold's article (in > English) in: "Moda ala corte dei Medici: gli abiti restaurati di > Cosimo, Eleonora e don Garzia" by Piacenti, Kirsten A. and Chiarelli, > Caterina. Florence, Centro Di, 1993. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 01:41:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5G5ftJp005873 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 01:41:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5G5f86t016112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5G5fEtD042146; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.53]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5G5fB7g042085 for ; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:41:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 85110 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jun 2005 05:40:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2KheGcFA3fiE8/ano34IRAE7jwMVOEylnYQ+xbwo+EZejibeuGRx+kbfwVL/nqGl88HXX0MFGhHFBBS3k1y4DHpEdhO8WXrIRKCF/rxZ/llK3eJkABAfkGj8sXvm9disngTeWW9TxcJWlTvbknKOGlrngOdF6r8qDjskTfC13oE= ; Message-ID: <20050616054057.85108.qmail@web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.120.217] by web32906.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:40:57 PDT Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:40:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] chinese parasols ......paint removal ideas To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050614033705.40859.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO mm...about the paint,can you tell what type it is?(oil ,acrylic,tempra?) Plain water will wash out the tempra,(my sis broughtback souvineer T's from Hawaii, 1 wash and we had plain white t's)I had really good luck with dry laytex paint coming out of cloth using an application of "Mr Klean" liquid, the white opaque cleaning stuff, from the market, Took it right out, didn't take out any of the base color either. WIld random thought, maybe if you took the "brolly" to an art supply store, they might be able to identify the paint and a way to remove it. melody --- Kathy Page wrote: > Ah well... I was hoping that there was a miracle out > there that would strip it off without removing it. > One > more project that went from quick to complicated in > one easy step. I have a knack for finding those > projects. Hmm.... I wonder if pressurised water shot > from behind would push the bulk of it off? Musing at > the moment... > > Onto the next question.... I have a bunch of beading > to do, too many projects and not enough time. I know > they exist but no idea what the name of the little > machine that does it is called that appliques beads > onto fabric surfaces. I am fairly certain it's not > practical for the application, but for the > excercise, > does anyone out there know what its called, where > one > would find such a beast and what cost might it be? > > Thanks! > > Kathy > > It’s never too late to be who you might have been. > -George Eliot > An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of > remaining young. > -Oscar Wilde > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 07:41:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5GBfkXm007436 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:41:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5GBewUo066542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:40:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GBf5gL091650; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:41:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (granite1.mail.cornell.edu [128.253.83.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GBf1t6091609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GBi91c025875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:44:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050616073608.01931668@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:40:48 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> References: <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there Chris ; > I've got the book on ILL order! We'll see if it comes through. Also, I'm retrieving a bibliography from the Cornell Library Archive - seeing if it mentions any other resources. And the letter to the museum is almost translated to my satisfaction. I'm quite determined to resolve this issue. The whole 10st/inch v. 22 st/inch question is irritating me... rather like an oyster - I might just get something good out of it. ; > Have fun - and I 'll keep you posted. Mari / Bridgette >>Mr. Rutt's book on the history of hand knitting has a knitting pattern >>for these, in case this one isn't among the hashed. > >It is indeed among those being discussed. Rutt's description is not very >detailed, but several of us are working on alternative "redactions." I >encourage anyone interested in historic knitting to join that list anyway >: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/ > >I just checked with a friend who gave me the most recent citation of work >on these stockings that she knows about: Janet Arnold's article (in >English) in: "Moda ala corte dei Medici: gli abiti restaurati di Cosimo, >Eleonora e don Garzia" by Piacenti, Kirsten A. and Chiarelli, >Caterina. Florence, Centro Di, 1993. Mari Stewart Webmaster College of Veterinary Medicine Cornell University _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 13:20:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5GHKF5a009754 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:20:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5GHJ65o001647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GHJFFi003991; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:19:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GHJ8vh003891 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:19:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GHIqG2007356 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:18:52 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GHIjSC184806 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:18:52 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:18:13 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20050616073608.01931668@postoffice8.mail.cornell .edu> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The whole 10st/inch v. 22 st/inch question is irritating me... rather like >an oyster - I might just get something good out of it. ; > Please keep those of us, who only dabble in knitting, posted on this issue. I can see knitting 10st/inch, but not 22st/inch - I'm not a "real" knitter like my mother, I'm a living history participant who dabbles in knitting. The process and the product are of historical interest, but it's not my artform. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 17:32:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5GLW4YY011422 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:32:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5GLV5UY028542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:31:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GLUHTc086217; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:30:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GLTxOw085941 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:30:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPK9UXC4LC94KONU@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:29:35 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPK9UWXUCC94K3ZO@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:29:34 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:31:04 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B1EF98.1070509@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> The whole 10st/inch v. 22 st/inch question is irritating me... rather >> like an oyster - I might just get something good out of it. ; > > > > Please keep those of us, who only dabble in knitting, posted on this > issue. I can see knitting 10st/inch, but not 22st/inch - I'm not a > "real" knitter like my mother, I'm a living history participant who > dabbles in knitting. The process and the product are of historical > interest, but it's not my artform. You might want to read some of the discussion on Historic Knit (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/). I think 22st/in has been more-or-less discounted. A more likely figure seems to be 12st/in. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 17:48:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5GLmKnT011555 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:48:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5GLlaHh030485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GLlonJ099125; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GLlkKL099053 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:47:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GLldNs003861 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:47:39 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5GLlO4v325326 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:47:28 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050616143809.02527d38@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:47:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <42B1EF98.1070509@paradise.net.nz> References: <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>The whole 10st/inch v. 22 st/inch question is irritating me... rather >>>like an oyster - I might just get something good out of it. ; > >> >> >>Please keep those of us, who only dabble in knitting, posted on this >>issue. I can see knitting 10st/inch, but not 22st/inch - I'm not a >>"real" knitter like my mother, I'm a living history participant who >>dabbles in knitting. The process and the product are of historical >>interest, but it's not my artform. > > >You might want to read some of the discussion on Historic Knit >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/). I think 22st/in has been >more-or-less discounted. A more likely figure seems to be 12st/in. 12st/inch is doable by a dabbler like me. But I don't think I'd live long enough to make a pair of stockings, even baby stockings, at 22st/inch. Knitting, to me, is just something I do at historical events in periods before crochet was invented. (I knit at Ren. events because I haven't seen a Ren.-period example I can copy.) Knitting, to a 'real' knitter like my mother, is churning out charity sweaters at the rate of one per week-and-a-half, each one different. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 19:42:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5GNg4Me012197 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:42:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5GNf05a041908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GNf8P1071920; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GNf2Mc071861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:41:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5GNaIlR001653 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:36:18 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:40:42 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The entries are getting quite sophisticated. 3420 is nearly Bjarne's period, 3437 is medievalish, 3437 looks good, and there are other historical designs which you can search for from this page: http://ducktapeclub.com/contests/prom/entries.asp Category "theme/costume" gets the closest approximation to historical. Most of the other entries are standard prom-wear, though. Note for non-North Americans: this is an adhesive tape with threads in it, allegedly for using on heating ducts and whatnot. The contest is for high school prom (dance) clothing made of it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 20:26:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H0Q1gL012410 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:26:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H0HKfX045072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:17:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H0HbQl090898; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:17:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H0HXJF090862 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:17:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPKFPQG5KG94KONU@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:17:11 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPKFPML2EM94KQS0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:17:06 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:18:37 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape In-reply-to: <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > The entries are getting quite sophisticated. 3420 is nearly Bjarne's > period, 3437 is medievalish, 3437 looks good, and there are other > historical designs which you can search for from this page: > > http://ducktapeclub.com/contests/prom/entries.asp > > Category "theme/costume" gets the closest approximation to historical. > Most of the other entries are standard prom-wear, though. > > Note for non-North Americans: this is an adhesive tape with threads in > it, allegedly for using on heating ducts and whatnot. The contest is > for high school prom (dance) clothing made of it. Um, we do have duct tape in other countries :-) -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 20:39:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H0dGW9012470 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:39:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H0cTwi047133 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:38:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H0cgBD001279; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:38:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H0cYmM001195 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5H0XnlR002405 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:33:49 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B21B75.6040005@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:38:13 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape References: <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Um, we do have duct tape in other countries :-) I don't doubt it. The thing I didn't know is if it was called something entirely different. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 20:52:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H0qsPF012566 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:52:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H0q6nM048341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:52:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H0qLBB008147; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:52:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H0qEdC008084 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:52:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5H0ptG2003892 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:51:55 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5H0poS6210550 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:51:55 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050616174336.02725c08@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:51:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape In-Reply-To: <42B21B75.6040005@thibault.org> References: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/944/Thu Jun 16 15:33:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Um, we do have duct tape in other countries :-) > >I don't doubt it. The thing I didn't know is if it was called something >entirely different. In Hollywood it's called "gaffer's tape", and is likely to have a ground wire in it. In Airplane racing, I hear it's called "100-mile-an-hour tape", because it starts peeling at 100 mph, airspeed. In the Navy, I hear it's called "E.B.Green", for "electrical, boat, green", and it is said to only come in green. In some places it is called "The Force" because it holds the Universe together and has a 'dark' side and a 'light' side. In the SCA it's called "sword tape". CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 21:52:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H1qQrx012879 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:52:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H1paOa052871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:51:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H1prVK035747; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:51:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H1pngD035722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:51:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from webmail.floodcity.net ([198.93.208.62]:40314 helo=floodcity.net) by mail.floodcity.net with smtp id 1Dj612-0003Yl-1K for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:51:29 -0400 Received: from 198.93.211.166 (FloodCity WebMail authenticated user basyefelton@floodcity.net) by webmail.floodcity.net with HTTP; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3216.198.93.211.166.1118973093.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:51:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape (MASTIC?) From: To: X-SentVia: FloodCity Internet X-Originating-IP: 198.93.211.166 X-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10 In-Reply-To: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> References: <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: FloodCity WebMail (version 1.2.7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> http://ducktapeclub.com/contests/prom/entries.asp >> >> Category "theme/costume" gets the closest approximation to historical. >> Most of the other entries are standard prom-wear, though. >> >> Note for non-North Americans: this is an adhesive tape with threads in >> it, allegedly for using on heating ducts and whatnot. The contest is >> for high school prom (dance) clothing made of it. > does anyone remember MASTIC? it was cloth tape available in a host of colors, maybe 10 or 15 which was used in the sixties for everything, repair and decoration. Then it dissappeared and there was duct tape. Ok, looking at it, I think I got the name a bit wrong but hopefully someone knows what I mean _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 23:22:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H3MJoV013280 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:22:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H3LQZc060951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:21:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H3LgY1079066; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H3Ldrx079043 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-14.cvip.net [129.8.207.14]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A7C5632 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:21:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:21:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimiko Small Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all, It's been several months since I left the mail list, and I am glad to have returned. My life story took quite a turn earlier this year as I took care of my ailing mom, and focused all my efforts for her. She died on May 1 after a year long fight with lung cancer. I have since been trying to reclaim my own life, one small step at a time. On the positive side, my husband and I are expecting a baby girl in mid-October, which after two boys will be different for me. But it does mean that any full costuming plans I had are currently on hold till sometime this winter. So, I figured I would work on accessories for my outfits this summer, such as finishing my leather gloves (inspiration for the gauntlets still elude me), making partlets (a Tudor and an Elizabethan), and making appropriate hats as my old ones ... well are old. On hats, I would like to make a Tudor gable hat, a French hood similar to what Mary Brandon (sister to Henry VIII) wears in her portrait with her husband, and something for my Elizabethan attire (what exactly, I am not sure). I have worked with cotton velveteen for my previous hats (scraps from the main gowns), but this time I want to work with better velvets. I don't know if cotton velvet or silk/rayon velvet would be better choices for hats? Is there a millinery velvet still available? I searched for millinery velvet in LA's hat store (the one at the edge of the garment district), but I didn't see it. Might have overlooked it considering how dark the place was. Anyway, any and all suggestions or experiences working with the various velvets for hats would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions for appropriate silk to use for lining the hats would be helpful. I am concerned with using something too slippery, as I don't want them falling or sliding around my head all the time. Thanks all. Kimiko Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Fresno, CA, USA "Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 16 23:39:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H3d05F013384 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:39:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H3cClg062311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H3cUGq086650; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:38:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H3cR7R086573 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:38:02 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 03:38:02 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org><42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <4.3.1.2.20050616174336.02725c08@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:38:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Jun 2005 03:38:02.0810 (UTC) FILETIME=[F71521A0:01C572ED] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In some places it is called "The Force" because it holds the Universe > together and has a 'dark' side and a 'light' side. And also: To build or repair anything, you only need two things, duct tape and DW40. When it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. When it doesn't move but should, use DW40. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 00:37:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H4b9xb013654 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:37:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H4aJ7b066245 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:36:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H4abah011292; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:36:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5H4aX55011230 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 10352 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2005 04:36:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=wsH5yF2j7ew8Lkri2I1zSthmttaXMLlL1AfTK/6YKeYkzr5FYFBPutHQSXnr4UhSN2WFd3Edmr8S3hTu/wkXkKPbmnRuw9blEsEC9SaNQZ0HrQtaNBhEkbLjFuCaQ9snTahou7ycYn8BTXDB0TCScYnZpPr34PrRZk+PG+7QdcI= ; Message-ID: <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.120.217] by web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:36:07 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:36:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics **Reply** To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO **reply** --- Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi all, > **HI** > It's been several months since I left the mail list, > and I am glad to have > returned. My life story took quite a turn earlier > this year as I took care > of my ailing mom, and focused all my efforts for > her. She died on May 1 > after a year long fight with lung cancer. **My condolences to you,lost my mom 362 days ago** I have since been trying to > reclaim my own life, one small step at a time. ** do it one day at a time, don't rush your emotions ** On the positive side, my husband and I are expecting a baby girl in mid-October,** Congrats!,new life -a blessing** which after two > boys will be different for me. ** Just think, tennie tinenie Tudors to make!** But it does mean that > any full costuming plans I had are currently on hold till sometime this winter. > > So, I figured I would work on accessories for my > outfits this summer, such as finishing my leather gloves (inspiration for the gauntlets still elude > me), making partlets (a Tudor and an Elizabethan), > and making appropriate hats as my old ones ... well are old. > > On hats, I would like to make a Tudor gable hat, a > French hood similar to what Mary Brandon (sister to Henry VIII) wears in her portrait with her > husband, and something for my Elizabethan attire > (what exactly, I am not sure). > > I have worked with cotton velveteen for my previous > hats (scraps from the main gowns), but this time I want to work with better velvets. I don't know > if cotton velvet or silk/rayon velvet would be > better choices for hats? ** lighter in weight-heavier in nap,millinery velvet. I think the cotton velvet is more in that line then the silk** > Is there a millinery velvet still available? I > searched for millinery velvet in LA's hat store (the one at the edge of the garment district), but > I didn't see it. Might have overlooked it > considering how dark the place was. ** have 2 listings for supplies California Millinery 721 S.Spring .L.A. and Richard the Thread 8320 Melrose #201 L.A. 800 748 5830 (check #)** > > Anyway, any and all suggestions or experiences > working with the various velvets for hats would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions for > appropriate silk to use for lining the hats would be > helpful. I am concerned with using something too slippery, as I > don't want them falling or sliding around my head all the time. ** what about using the silk only on the part that shows and a cotton for the"works" part?** > > Thanks all. > ** hope this helps, You might want to take a look at Denise Dreher"s "From the neck Up " book has info,tips & patters, I swear by mine** Melody > Kimiko > > Kimiko Small > http://www.kimiko1.com > Fresno, CA, USA > > "Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild > Portraying at California's Central Valley > Renaissance Faires > Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland > (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret > Russell) > > __ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 00:44:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H4iLZA013674 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:44:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H4hh6Z066675 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:43:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H4i2PO014291; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:44:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H4hxKc014272 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:44:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m90.in-tch.com [216.166.191.90]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5H4cQ413101 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42B25654.5030004@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:49:24 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found my photo copy of the Italian exhibit catalogue. The text concerning the stockings is in Italian (which I don't speak or read or write, unfortunately), but there are a couple of useful details, anyway. The description of them reads, in part: "Le calze (lungh. cm. 52; piedi cm. 23; caviglie cm. 11,5)," which, if I catch that properly, gives a length of 52 cm, a foot-something of 23 cm, and the calf? of 11.5 cm. Judging from a rough guesstimate with my thumb and forefinger against the picture of the complete stockings, pre-conservation, I'd say that the measurement across the calf (roughly half the diameter at calf height) is about one-quarter the total length of the stocking, which would give a diameter of 23 cm or so, but that's very rough. Other things I can tell, just from the pictures: 1. There are more repeats to the alternating bands in the leg of the stockings than are used in the version that showed up in _TI_ a while back, and the pattern bands continue all the way down to the toes, which look to have some sort of "star" decrease going on (don't know the technical term, but the bands look to decrease uniformly, and not just on the sides. I can clearly see 5 panels of the seed stitch on just the one half of the stocking that faces me. 2. I can't really see much of the heels--looks to be completely gone on one of the stockings, and there, but crumpled, in the other (there are no post-conservation pictures). 3. There is a very, very good, clear blowup of the details of one of the cuffs, which remind me somewhat of the ones from the _TI_ article, but not exactly--IIRC, the author actually said something about using modern stitches to approximate what she thought was going on, and making at least one alteration. The patterns on the cuff include some clusters of eyelets (looks like the sort you get with yarn-overs), but mostly it's done with knit stitches and purl stitches. And folks, the stitches look really, really teeny, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was more along the 22 st/inch measure than the other. The cuff may be something on the order of 60 stitches "deep," which would give you about a 3" cuff, and it's significantly longer, horizontally, than it is vertically, so the circumference, at least at the cuff, is gonna be a bunch more than 120 stitches. I counted 10 stitches across one of the seed-stitch panels, so if you had, say, 10 panels of seed stitch at 10 stitches each, and another, and add in almost as much for the narrower panels, you'd have something that's roughly 10" in diameter, which would fit with the diameter of 23 cm. Sounds seriously skinny, I know, but take into account that she was a seriously ill woman when she died, and may have had slender limbs. Also, I just hauled a handknit boot sock out of my drawer. It goes part way up my calf, and only has a calf measurement of (rustle, rustle) 7". And I have seriously large calves, being a large woman. At least for these stockings, I'd go with the finer count of stitches per inch, truly. If, however, you're interested in 16th century stockings made of wool, and distinctly coarser, check out the 16th c. woolen stockings from Ireland on Kass McGann's website (reconstructinghistoryDOTcom), in the "Irish" section. They're mentioned, briefly, in my copy of Dunlevy's _Dress in Ireland_, but Kass, who got to actually see them when she was in Ireland, was able to tell me that they were distinctly knitted from a worsted single, and (I think...the email's at work) that the gauge was about 10 stitches to the inch. Don't quote me on it, though...I'd have to double-check her email. I'm starting to dabble in historical knitting, and while my (historical knitting) goal is to be able to make a pair of Eleanor's stockings, my skill level isn't there yet. So my first ones will be based on the woolen Irish ones, and then, I'll work my way into finer gauges and materials. If Urtatim (whom I still think of as "the artist formerly known as Anahita") would like to forward this one to the historic knitting list, so I don't have to retype the whole thing, I'd be grateful. I get that list with another email account than the one I use for h-costume. --sue, dabbler in many things fibery these days.... Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> The whole 10st/inch v. 22 st/inch question is irritating me... rather >> like an oyster - I might just get something good out of it. ; > > > > Please keep those of us, who only dabble in knitting, posted on this > issue. I can see knitting 10st/inch, but not 22st/inch - I'm not a > "real" knitter like my mother, I'm a living history participant who > dabbles in knitting. The process and the product are of historical > interest, but it's not my artform. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 01:01:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H51slb013720 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:01:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H514KU067733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:01:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H51M3w021716; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:01:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H51Kif021685 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:01:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m90.in-tch.com [216.166.191.90]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5H4tl416415 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42B25A65.1040809@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:06:45 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape References: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org><42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <4.3.1.2.20050616174336.02725c08@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL! Wouldn't do much for my knees or, come to think of it, the cats. Well, maybe the duct tape *would* work on the cats, especially when they get kitty rips in the middle of the night. (How can an animal so small sound so LOUD! at 2 a.m.????) --sue, who once mended the hem of an SCA dress with duct tape, and never, ever, ever will do it again that way (it does Truly Evyl Things to velveteen) Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: >> In some places it is called "The Force" because it holds the Universe >> together and has a 'dark' side and a 'light' side. > > > And also: To build or repair anything, you only need two things, duct > tape and DW40. When it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. When it > doesn't move but should, use DW40. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 01:08:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H58qR1013745 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:08:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H585TG068148 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:08:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H58PLF024538; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:08:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H58KH3024479 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:08:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPKPV72WLC95RCHB@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:07:55 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPKPV8DQJ494KY1G@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:07:57 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:09:28 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-reply-to: <42B25654.5030004@in-tch.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B25B08.2000006@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <42B25654.5030004@in-tch.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > I found my photo copy of the Italian exhibit catalogue. The text > concerning the stockings is in Italian (which I don't speak or read or > write, unfortunately), but there are a couple of useful details, > anyway. The description of them reads, in part: > "Le calze (lungh. cm. 52; piedi cm. 23; caviglie cm. 11,5)," which, if > I catch that properly, gives a length of 52 cm, a foot-something of 23 > cm, and the calf? of 11.5 cm. Judging from a rough guesstimate with > my thumb and forefinger against the picture of the complete stockings, > pre-conservation, I'd say that the measurement across the calf > (roughly half the diameter at calf height) is about one-quarter the > total length of the stocking, which would give a diameter of 23 cm or > so, but that's very rough. > Other things I can tell, just from the pictures: > 1. There are more repeats to the alternating bands in the leg of the > stockings than are used in the version that showed up in _TI_ a while > back, and the pattern bands continue all the way down to the toes, > which look to have some sort of "star" decrease going on (don't know > the technical term, but the bands look to decrease uniformly, and not > just on the sides. I can clearly see 5 panels of the seed stitch on > just the one half of the stocking that faces me. Any chance you'll post the scan? Based on the pictures in Rutt and accompanying description, I guessed at a circumference in the calf of 155st. Rutt gives the leg pattern as double-moss stitch panels of 9st, double-garter of 8st, and between those, panels of 5st. All of the panels are seperated by one stitch, so a complete iteration of the pattern would be 8 + 1 + 5 + 1 + 9 + 1 + 5 + 1 = 31 stitches, and I thought I could safely say there were five complete iterations of the pattern in the upper calf = 155st. My original guesstimate of circumference was based on my own leg size (for lack of anything better), and that yielded a gauge of <12st/in. If the original diameter was 23cm, that's a gauge of about 16st/in, but I think that the stockings must have shrunken considerably, given their current rather stumpy shape. I wasn't relying on the TI article at all for any of that-- it's a modern redaction that starts with (I think) 100 stitches. I found _most_ of what I wanted re: stitch patterns in modern books (with a little fudging and adaptation). -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 03:52:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5H7qPVE010618 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 03:52:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5H7pXB3085139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:51:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H7ppar091277; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:51:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H7pm0B091247 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:51:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be6b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.107]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id CBE8426287D for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:51:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004201c57311$5efc2bb0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:51:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] historical costumes out of Duct/Duck tape X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Thanks for the link. It is increddible how much you can get out of nothing. My favourite is 3468. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 06:16:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HAGwK6014674 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:16:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HAFHUJ004518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 04:15:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HAFbpH049328; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 04:15:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HAFW6p049254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 04:15:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5517AD89BB for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 04429-09 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AF346D89B5 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:14:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006801c57325$62521d60$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:14:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Virtue" To: Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:40 PM Subject: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape > The entries are getting quite sophisticated. 3420 is nearly Bjarne's > period, 3437 is medievalish, 3437 looks good, and there are other > historical designs which you can search for from this page: My favorite is 3384, the Mary Poppins set. I have always wanted to make a doll dressed in that costume! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:11:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEBAhR016342 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:11:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HE9DO9025190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:09:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HE9Yn1062357; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web53204.mail.yahoo.com (web53204.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.220]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5GLN33G080977 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:23:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gythaofnorthumbria@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 64559 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Jun 2005 21:22:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=DSw4JzlynxISpVw2+ZLGMYhih/BLtmGfcdZoEUfCjPgwpt2eL/FeRAPzkIYowFXUKlntw/YXT9Kpx4t4xf/rKE9OD8nu/cvN+wpK3bg0iL1JWHS6n1DiOqUom5MSNM75ODWLEZJke60faul3XTGybqRPhhCMP7IKFXKAifdp9l4= ; Message-ID: <20050616212237.64557.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [152.163.100.131] by web53204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:22:37 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:22:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Gytha Stonegrinder Subject: Re: [h-cost] Egyptian broad collar To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <8296995c0506151258578c0528@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We signed up to see it during Costume College too... my 16 year old daughter got her registration today... my didn't come yet! I'm really looking forward to it! Gytha/Kathy Lynn Downward wrote:Penny, it also will travel to Ft. Lauderdale, Chicago and Philadelphia over the next two years. I can't wait to see it in Los Angeles though. that's as close as it gets to San Francisco. We plan to visit during Costume College at the end of July. LynnD On 6/14/05, Penny Ladnier wrote: > Oh, this is too cool! A King Tut exhibit in LA. Go see: > http://www.kingtut.org/ > > Penny Ladnier, owner > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:11:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEBHIT016345 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEA0tS025311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEAQhK062930; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5GLtkRA005375 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 15:55:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPKARXAJS095RCHB@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:55:24 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPKARYB29094K6LL@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:55:25 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:56:56 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050616143809.02527d38@mail.frys.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B1F5A8.3@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616143809.02527d38@mail.frys.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>>> The whole 10st/inch v. 22 st/inch question is irritating me... >>>> rather like an oyster - I might just get something good out of it. >>>> ; > >>> >>> >>> >>> Please keep those of us, who only dabble in knitting, posted on this >>> issue. I can see knitting 10st/inch, but not 22st/inch - I'm not a >>> "real" knitter like my mother, I'm a living history participant who >>> dabbles in knitting. The process and the product are of historical >>> interest, but it's not my artform. >> >> >> >> You might want to read some of the discussion on Historic Knit >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/). I think 22st/in has >> been more-or-less discounted. A more likely figure seems to be 12st/in. > > > 12st/inch is doable by a dabbler like me. But I don't think I'd live > long enough to make a pair of stockings, even baby stockings, at > 22st/inch. Knitting, to me, is just something I do at historical > events in periods before crochet was invented. (I knit at Ren. events > because I haven't seen a Ren.-period example I can copy.) Knitting, > to a 'real' knitter like my mother, is churning out charity sweaters > at the rate of one per week-and-a-half, each one different. The thing is that the assertion about 22st/in simply does not jive with an examination of stockings. They are, at most, 15.5st/in and probably more like 10/12. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:11:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEBK37016348 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:11:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEAAMR025362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEAZuX063098; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51307.mail.yahoo.com (web51307.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5H1rPTJ036498 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:53:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 14582 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2005 01:52:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=OHick+0l25E4jmeG56d/EVPCrYbWIHx3gzcTE/uqH0GVBsSf3Fv9A0S2/lIajX4319UKFdzb8VpU5YcXj+4sYMPwsrGBmT+xt75+Xqmxdi1/44PTvPjZ4FkctF+k7hgpVZJ0rQqikUFCBBdji7yfh6escXn3CcfklOBsghIRT3w= ; Message-ID: <20050617015258.14580.qmail@web51307.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.147.71] by web51307.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:52:58 PDT Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:52:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050616174336.02725c08@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, gaff & duct tape are similar, except that gaff is nice & sticks better & then peels off better, and duct wants to leave a sticky mess without actually sticking to anything itself. Ann in CT has taped many an acre of put-together stages. --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >>duct tape > > In Hollywood it's called "gaffer's tape", and is > likely to have a ground > wire in it. > > CarolynKayta Barrows __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:11:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEBKx1016349 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:11:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEATTB025497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEArYn063392; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H7U9Aw083745 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:30:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-14.cvip.net [129.8.207.14]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254425E30B for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 00:29:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics **Reply** In-Reply-To: <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Melody, At 09:36 PM 6/16/2005, you wrote: > **My condolences to you,lost my mom 362 days ago** Thank you. My condolences to you as well. Moms are so very special, and it's hard to lose them. > ** do it one day at a time, don't rush your emotions** I try that approach. Some days are definitely better than others. Today was a good one. >** Congrats!,new life -a blessing** which after two > > boys will be different for me. ** Just think, tennie >tinenie Tudors to make!** Yeah, and girly styles this time. My boy toddler wore appropriate Tudor "gowns" and kept getting called a girl for it. Now I will have a girl in a gown. I guess I will have to make something else for my boy, as he's outgrown his old gown. > > if cotton velvet or silk/rayon velvet would be > > better choices for hats? >** lighter in weight-heavier in nap,millinery velvet. >I think the cotton velvet is more in that line then >the silk** I have yet to find millinery velvet, and only worked in cotton velvet once for a doublet. Cotton velvet is thicker than velveteen so I am wondering if it will be harder to sew up as a hat? > > Is there a millinery velvet still available? I > > searched for millinery velvet in LA's hat store >(the one at the edge of the garment district), but > > I didn't see it. Might have overlooked it > > considering how dark the place was. > ** have 2 listings for supplies California Millinery >721 S.Spring .L.A. and Richard the Thread 8320 >Melrose #201 L.A. 800 748 5830 (check #)** It was California Millinery that I went to in LA. Very dark place. They no longer send out catalogs of their things, and phone calls take forever to get answered. I forgot to ask about millinery velvet when I was there, but I did get other supplies like heavy buckram and heavy gauge wire. I will have to dig up my Richard the Thread catalog and see if he carries millinery velvet. I've also checked Hats by Leko and JudithM Hats online, and they seem to carry velour, either pre-made hats or the fabric. Is that the same as millinery velvet?? I've been checking other online sources and still can't find millinery velvet. There is a mail order source I may have to try; Manny's Millinery Supply in NY. >** what about using the silk only on the part that >shows and a cotton for the"works" part?** I have used either linen or cotton for the lining before. I wanted to try a silk lining, but I am not sure what kind of silk would work best. (Maybe a crepe?) Even cotton ends up slipping around on my head. Seems china silk is the usual lining according to some websites, and the book. > > ** hope this helps, You might want to take a look at >Denise Dreher"s "From the neck Up " book has info,tips > & patters, I swear by mine** > Melody I have the book, which helped me before, but on the specifics of fabrics, I can't find anything really helpful regarding velvet, other than it saying that millinery velvet is more suitable than other velvets for hats. But thanks for reminding me to look at the book again. It's been a year since I read it last. Thank you, Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:11:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEBe9K016356 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:11:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEAFOi025390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEAeae063152; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:10:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5H2biDO057816 for ; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:37:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=gsgFTyeyj+PIRdm0AVLtMa5FjOVLS9KEM8UI4UmcRvX45C9yupPnKX0IOeh/cil2; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.21.86] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Dj6jT-0003HL-HB for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:37:24 -0400 Message-ID: <036f01c572e5$7bf8d730$b9399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <3216.198.93.211.166.1118973093.squirrel@webmail.floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape (MASTIC?) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 22:37:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0be946c6d40a0f19fcd2654a7be65021cd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.86 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > does anyone remember MASTIC? it was cloth tape available in a host of > colors, maybe 10 or 15 which was used in the sixties for everything, > repair and decoration. Then it dissappeared and there was duct tape. > Ok, looking at it, I think I got the name a bit wrong but hopefully > someone knows what I mean I remember mastic tape, even when it only came in black. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:14:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEEUWY016371 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:14:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEDkRt026085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEEBJa065784; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:14:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEE6Ne065652 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (unknown[204.127.197.127](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005061714133101400gjjvve>; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:13:31 +0000 Received: from [67.165.126.40] by 204.127.197.111; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:13:30 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics **Reply** Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:13:30 +0000 Message-Id: <061720051413.13013.42B2DA89000EBAD2000032D522058891160809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gee, I can't really snip 'cuz good info in the body! I agree. I found that a really nappy deep velvet is a must, because when it 'breaks' on the fold, the ground isn't staring the audience in the face. Also, when I made my little Italian Ren hat (think what Elenora of Toledo wore), I used a fabric with a really *strong* one way nap on the lowest edge, on the part that touches the hair. I think I used a corduroy and make sure the nap is pointing back towards the crown. If you have it facing forward the silly little thing will just slide forward. Another thing, to keep the hat on, since I had long hair at the time, I dressed my hair in a tight bun to fit directly into the crown, so that I could take a hat pin and pin my hairbun to the crown, making sure to gently 'tug' the front of the hat back so the nap sets into the hair. Worked like a charm. Anyhow, these are my tips...for what they are worth...Now that I have shorter hair, I'll have to think of a different way...I'm open to suggestions! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > **reply** > > --- Kimiko Small wrote: > > > Hi all, > > **HI** > > It's been several months since I left the mail list, > > and I am glad to have > > returned. My life story took quite a turn earlier > > this year as I took care > > of my ailing mom, and focused all my efforts for > > her. She died on May 1 > > after a year long fight with lung cancer. > **My condolences to you,lost my mom 362 days ago** > I have since been trying to > > reclaim my own life, one small step at a time. > ** do it one day at a time, don't rush your emotions > ** > On the positive side, my husband and I are expecting > a baby girl in mid-October,** Congrats!,new life -a > blessing** which after two > > boys will be different for me. ** Just think, tennie > tinenie Tudors to make!** But it does mean that > > any full costuming plans I had are currently on > hold till sometime this winter. > > > > So, I figured I would work on accessories for my > > outfits this summer, such as finishing my leather > gloves (inspiration for the gauntlets still elude > > me), making partlets (a Tudor and an Elizabethan), > > and making appropriate hats as my old ones ... well > are old. > > > > On hats, I would like to make a Tudor gable hat, a > > French hood similar to what Mary Brandon (sister to > Henry VIII) wears in her portrait with her > > husband, and something for my Elizabethan attire > > (what exactly, I am not sure). > > > > I have worked with cotton velveteen for my previous > > hats (scraps from the main gowns), but this time I > want to work with better velvets. I don't know > > if cotton velvet or silk/rayon velvet would be > > better choices for hats? > ** lighter in weight-heavier in nap,millinery velvet. > I think the cotton velvet is more in that line then > the silk** > > Is there a millinery velvet still available? I > > searched for millinery velvet in LA's hat store > (the one at the edge of the garment district), but > > I didn't see it. Might have overlooked it > > considering how dark the place was. > ** have 2 listings for supplies California Millinery > 721 S.Spring .L.A. and Richard the Thread 8320 > Melrose #201 L.A. 800 748 5830 (check #)** > > > > Anyway, any and all suggestions or experiences > > working with the various velvets for hats would be > appreciated. Also, any suggestions for > > appropriate silk to use for lining the hats would be > > helpful. > I am concerned with using something too slippery, as > I > > don't want them falling or sliding around my head > all the time. > ** what about using the silk only on the part that > shows and a cotton for the"works" part?** > > > > Thanks all. > > ** hope this helps, You might want to take a look at > Denise Dreher"s "From the neck Up " book has info,tips > & patters, I swear by mine** > Melody > > > Kimiko > > > > Kimiko Small > > http://www.kimiko1.com > > Fresno, CA, USA > > > > "Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild > > Portraying at California's Central Valley > > Renaissance Faires > > Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland > > (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret > > Russell) > > > > __ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:17:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEHHUT016386 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:17:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEGZLV026660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:16:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEGxhu067785; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:16:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEGuDa067707 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MaddNancy@aol.com) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.9d.620899df (3310) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:16:22 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <9d.620899df.2fe43536@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:16:22 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5116 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I took my serger in for repair/maintenance the other day as one of the threads kept disappearing as I sewed (it would then reappear- very odd). The place I took it said that their standard fee was $100, which seemed high to me. A few years ago I had taken it there, and it had only been $70. This machine is about 12 years old and has always had trouble with its tension (Singer 14U model). So, I'm trying to decide what to do. First, does anyone know where I can find a manual that will teach me how to adjust timing of a serger (that's what they think has gone wacky this time)? Secondly, what sergers do people recommend, including those to avoid? I've searched the archives, and we haven't discussed sergers in a while, so I thought people might have some new info. Thanks, Nancy Stengel Ulmer (otherwise Maddalena Salutati) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:44:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEiFfJ016784 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:44:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEhTcQ029395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEhslf084863; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:43:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5HEhpNu084832 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:43:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 15889 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2005 14:43:03 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:43:03 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1052.67.188.164.116.1119019404.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <9d.620899df.2fe43536@aol.com> References: <9d.620899df.2fe43536@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Secondly, what sergers do people recommend, including those to avoid? > I've > searched the archives, and we haven't discussed sergers in a while, so I > thought people might have some new info. I bought my Juki serger about 10 years ago and at the time I was told by someone who had been to fashion design school that Juki was a home model made like the the professional machines. I have to say that with the exception of a bent part and new blades, I haven't had to service it a bit. And it will go through ANYTHING!! Four layers of fabric is nothing for this little guy. Aside from Juki specifically, I was told that sergers that use the cutting blades in a "scissor" fashion are better for costuming because they can take many layers of fabric without a problem. But my Juki also cost $600 at the time and that was for a floor model. But I would say that it was money VERY well spent. Hope that helps! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:49:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEnKSK016832 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:49:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEmeqR029867 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:48:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEn4hu088314; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:49:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S2.cableone.net (smtp2.cableone.net [24.116.0.228]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEn03H088225 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.251.184]) by S2.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S2) with ESMTP id 22352521 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:29:14 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:48:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5734b$ac7f6a20$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <9d.620899df.2fe43536@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 62, in=55, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.251.184 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nancy-- I think you should dump the 12 year old Singer and get a new serger. And, even though all sergers are made in China or Japan or Korea, not by the actual sewing machine companies (such as Pfaff or Singer), I would not recommend a Singer. You can find some very pricey sergers out there, with lots of bells and whistles. Most of them do a great job, and many of the expensive features are convenient, if you want to pay for them. But you can also find more basic sergers that work just as well, but they make you do a little of the work yourself, adjusting tensions and stitch lengths and widths rather than pushing a button for pre-set stitches. These basic sergers are NOT difficult to thread, although retailers take advantage of the serger's reputation as hard to thread to sell you models that are in some way self-threading. Again, if you care to pay extra, this is not a bad feature. Take some of the fabric you typically sew with, go to your favorite dealer, and try out some sergers. Don't listen too closely to the salesperson's spiel--judge by the machine itself, as you use it. If you NEVER sew modern clothing with knits, you don't need a machine that can do a cover stitch. As an adjunct to historical costume, you will be perfectly happy with a 3/4thread machine that has differential feed. Kim (ex-dealer) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of MaddNancy@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 9:16 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted I took my serger in for repair/maintenance the other day as one of the threads kept disappearing as I sewed (it would then reappear- very odd). The place I took it said that their standard fee was $100, which seemed high to me. A few years ago I had taken it there, and it had only been $70. This machine is about 12 years old and has always had trouble with its tension (Singer 14U model). So, I'm trying to decide what to do. First, does anyone know where I can find a manual that will teach me how to adjust timing of a serger (that's what they think has gone wacky this time)? Secondly, what sergers do people recommend, including those to avoid? I've searched the archives, and we haven't discussed sergers in a while, so I thought people might have some new info. Thanks, Nancy Stengel Ulmer (otherwise Maddalena Salutati) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 10:50:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HEofaf016845 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:50:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HEnv9B030076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:49:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEoJeE089219; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:50:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HEoEoj089119 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:50:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=dOJxSsXadDw44QXvOlxhUjmsbPDPcOIwOTJl4wS7tj3PkZYFMYQ8MQZIUlfhEzRi; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DjIAD-0007M9-J4 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:49:45 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617103314.02084bb0@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:49:30 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <42B25B08.2000006@paradise.net.nz> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <42B25654.5030004@in-tch.com> <42B25B08.2000006@paradise.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22c9f3f92b5dff9ba189d6c94d1acf1ff93350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:09 AM 6/17/2005, Adele wrote: >Any chance you'll post the scan? Based on the pictures in Rutt and >accompanying description, I guessed at a circumference in the calf of 155st. FWIW, 155 is the count I came up with also. > If the original diameter was 23cm, that's a gauge of about 16st/in, but > I think that the stockings must have shrunken considerably, given their > current rather stumpy shape. I'm not sure silk would shrink under those conditions. I haven't tried washing knitted silk, but my impression is that just as silk is remarkably non-stretchy compared to wool, I'd expect it to be fairly shrink-proof as well. >I wasn't relying on the TI article at all for any of that-- it's a modern >redaction that starts with (I think) 100 stitches. I found _most_ of what >I wanted re: stitch patterns in modern books (with a little fudging and >adaptation). Clearly Melinda Strehl (the TI article author) wasn't trying to do a stitch-for-stitch replica -- her article was originally written for a mundane knitting publication. For reasons I don't fully understand, what she did was to find modern patterns that approximated the originals, and gave directions for the modern patterns as they stood. I can only suppose she felt that her audience would find those reassuringly familiar, and perhaps feel more comfortable trying the project, since it's certainly not your typical modern knitting project (for one thing it's at far more stitches per inch, even in her pattern, than most people are used to). I knitted a small sample at about 20 stitches per inch (IIRC) in a 2-ply spun-silk thread about the same size as Guterman's size E. (I'm 3,000 miles from home at the moment, so I can't check the details or measurements till late next week.) It did take time, but I didn't find it that hard, once I got used to the 0.5mm knitting needles (they are weirdly flexible and springy). The color pattern I tried to work in green _reeled_ silk, though, was a royal pain, since the needles split the thread if you so much as look at it cross-eyed. (This is the stuff that is just a lot of parallel silk threads as they come off the cocoons, bundled together but not twisted at all.) Let me see which of my knitting files I have with me -- I may have a chart I can post over at the [HistoricKnit] list's Files section. ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HistoricKnit/ if anyone's still in need of the address...) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 11:36:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HFaHtw017431 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:36:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HFZHjB034757 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:35:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HFZdY1022319; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:35:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.io.com (smtp.io.com [209.198.128.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HFZZh3022222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:35:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from webmail.io.com (webmail.io.com [209.198.128.99]) by smtp.io.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HFZ3Ae074694 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:35:03 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from chiara@io.com) Received: from 165.236.184.195 (SquirrelMail authenticated user ches); by new.host.name with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:35:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <18202.165.236.184.195.1119022503.squirrel@165.236.184.195> In-Reply-To: <000001c5734b$ac7f6a20$6401a8c0@kimathlon> References: <9d.620899df.2fe43536@aol.com> <000001c5734b$ac7f6a20$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:35:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted From: "Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on smtp.io.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah ha! An expert!! Ok, ravel question then. A 3/4 server is good for linen that will not quite raveling, yes? One of my girlfriends just got a new one from her oh so wonderful hubby and he has been playing with it too. She is sooo lucky. ;) Anyhow, that is her question. :) Chiara On Fri, June 17, 2005 9:48 am, kim baird said: > Nancy-- > > I think you should dump the 12 year old Singer and get a new serger. > > And, even though all sergers are made in China or Japan or Korea, > not by > the actual sewing machine companies (such as Pfaff or Singer), I > would > not recommend a Singer. > > You can find some very pricey sergers out there, with lots of bells > and > whistles. Most of them do a great job, and many of the expensive > features are convenient, if you want to pay for them. > > But you can also find more basic sergers that work just as well, but > they make you do a little of the work yourself, adjusting tensions > and > stitch lengths and widths rather than pushing a button for pre-set > stitches. These basic sergers are NOT difficult to thread, although > retailers take advantage of the serger's reputation as hard to > thread to > sell you models that are in some way self-threading. Again, if you > care > to pay extra, this is not a bad feature. > > Take some of the fabric you typically sew with, go to your favorite > dealer, and try out some sergers. Don't listen too closely to the > salesperson's spiel--judge by the machine itself, as you use it. > > If you NEVER sew modern clothing with knits, you don't need a > machine > that can do a cover stitch. As an adjunct to historical costume, you > will be perfectly happy with a 3/4thread machine that has > differential > feed. > > Kim > (ex-dealer) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 11:41:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HFfWnX017487 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:41:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HFecRX035211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HFf2cG026113; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HFewDW026002 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:40:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0II80013NJGM8040@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.34] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.57.196]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:40:16 -0400 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:40:16 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings To: Historical Costume Message-id: <39b4f6139b146a.39b146a39b4f61@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'll put my 2cents in here. I have a raw silk woven fabric dress that has shrunk total about 10% from original. I also have a modern silk knitted sweater that has shrunk total about 5% from original. The sweater can easily be stretched back into shape without looking 'funny'. Maybe the stockings react like modern pantyhose? After washing they look baggy and child-sized - but stretch to fit an adult. Katheryne who hasn't knitted with any needles smaller than a sz 3 ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Laning > At 01:09 AM 6/17/2005, Adele wrote: > > > If the original diameter was 23cm, that's a gauge of about > 16st/in, but I think that the stockings must have shrunken considerably, > given their current rather stumpy shape. > > I'm not sure silk would shrink under those conditions. I haven't > tried washing knitted silk, but my impression is that just as silk is > remarkably non-stretchy compared to wool, I'd expect it to be fairly shrink- > proof as well. > > 0 Chris Laning _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 12:05:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HG5Qta017635 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HG4c2w037831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:04:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HG4xcA043436; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:05:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5HG4lQs043252 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:04:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-9508); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:02:24 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:02:23 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050617085114.00dc4a50@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:04:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <39b4f6139b146a.39b146a39b4f61@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Most shrinkage associated with wool is due to felting (or fulling). Silk does not felt, and one can stretch it back out after shrinkage. Joan At 11:40 AM 6/17/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I'll put my 2cents in here. > >I have a raw silk woven fabric dress that has shrunk total about 10% from >original. > >I also have a modern silk knitted sweater that has shrunk total about 5% >from original. >The sweater can easily be stretched back into shape without looking 'funny'. > >Maybe the stockings react like modern pantyhose? After washing they look >baggy and child-sized - but stretch to fit an adult. > >Katheryne >who hasn't knitted with any needles smaller than a sz 3 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Chris Laning > > > At 01:09 AM 6/17/2005, Adele wrote: > > > > If the original diameter was 23cm, that's a gauge of about > > 16st/in, but I think that the stockings must have shrunken considerably, > > given their current rather stumpy shape. > > > > I'm not sure silk would shrink under those conditions. I haven't > > tried washing knitted silk, but my impression is that just as silk is > > remarkably non-stretchy compared to wool, I'd expect it to be fairly > shrink- > > proof as well. > > > > 0 Chris Laning > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 12:24:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HGOnek017769 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:24:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HGNX8j039564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HGJQrg054306; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S1.cableone.net (smtp1.cableone.net [24.116.0.227]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HGIhTj053756 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:18:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.251.184]) by S1.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S1) with ESMTP id 23380463 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:18:30 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:18:32 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c57358$348fe910$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <18202.165.236.184.195.1119022503.squirrel@165.236.184.195> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 69, in=79, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.251.184 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I use 3 threads to overcast cut edges and prevent raveling: both loopers and the left needle. Even when I change colors, I rarely have to re-thread the machine. I simply dial the looper tensions down to ZERO, tie the new thread onto the old above the first thread guide, and pull it through. BUT--before you do this, cut the needle thread, then re-thread the needle after the loopers are done. Don't forget to dial the tension back up from zero! Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted Ah ha! An expert!! Ok, ravel question then. A 3/4 server is good for linen that will not quite raveling, yes? One of my girlfriends just got a new one from her oh so wonderful hubby and he has been playing with it too. She is sooo lucky. ;) Anyhow, that is her question. :) Chiara On Fri, June 17, 2005 9:48 am, kim baird said: > Nancy-- > > I think you should dump the 12 year old Singer and get a new serger. > > And, even though all sergers are made in China or Japan or Korea, not > by the actual sewing machine companies (such as Pfaff or Singer), I > would > not recommend a Singer. > > You can find some very pricey sergers out there, with lots of bells > and whistles. Most of them do a great job, and many of the expensive > features are convenient, if you want to pay for them. > > But you can also find more basic sergers that work just as well, but > they make you do a little of the work yourself, adjusting tensions and > stitch lengths and widths rather than pushing a button for pre-set > stitches. These basic sergers are NOT difficult to thread, although > retailers take advantage of the serger's reputation as hard to > thread to > sell you models that are in some way self-threading. Again, if you > care > to pay extra, this is not a bad feature. > > Take some of the fabric you typically sew with, go to your favorite > dealer, and try out some sergers. Don't listen too closely to the > salesperson's spiel--judge by the machine itself, as you use it. > > If you NEVER sew modern clothing with knits, you don't need a machine > that can do a cover stitch. As an adjunct to historical costume, you > will be perfectly happy with a 3/4thread machine that has > differential > feed. > > Kim > (ex-dealer) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 14:14:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HIECtQ023171 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HICpW8052205 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:12:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIDFa9041609; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HID3br041388 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F03E3C85B for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:12:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42B31296.8030804@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:12:38 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <42B25654.5030004@in-tch.com> <42B25B08.2000006@paradise.net.nz> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617103314.02084bb0@pop.igc.org> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617103314.02084bb0@pop.igc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > At 01:09 AM 6/17/2005, Adele wrote: >> If the original diameter was 23cm, that's a gauge of about 16st/in, >> but I think that the stockings must have shrunken considerably, given >> their current rather stumpy shape. > > > I'm not sure silk would shrink under those conditions. I haven't tried > washing knitted silk, but my impression is that just as silk is > remarkably non-stretchy compared to wool, I'd expect it to be fairly > shrink-proof as well. Silk shrinks. At least the modern silk fabric I used for my wedding dress did, and all I did to it was dunk it into a cool bath. (Good thing, too, because I got soaked to the skin in it taking pictures on my wet rainy wedding day) It shrunk several inches per yard. Wouldn't plain silk strands used for knitting shrink the same way as silk used in woven fabric? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 14:37:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HIbiT8023337 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:37:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HIb4jk054978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:37:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIaISn058940; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:37:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5HIZE2n058184 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:35:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-22181); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:32:50 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:32:50 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050617112739.00dce4f0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:34:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-Reply-To: <42B31296.8030804@reddawn.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617103314.02084bb0@pop.igc.org> <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <42B25654.5030004@in-tch.com> <42B25B08.2000006@paradise.net.nz> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617103314.02084bb0@pop.igc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, silk used in knitting is likely not to shrink to the same extent. The threads are under great tension during weaving, especially the warp threads. In knitting, the strands "relax" after the knitting is done, so the resulting fabric is not under high tension (and none of us can knit under the tensions used in weaving). Since woven fabric is often treated with sizing, removing the sizing will result not only in a change in hand of the fabric, but may also result in some shrinkage when the threads are no longer being held in place by the sizing. Joan At 01:12 PM 6/17/2005 -0500, you wrote: >Chris Laning wrote: > >>At 01:09 AM 6/17/2005, Adele wrote: >>> If the original diameter was 23cm, that's a gauge of about 16st/in, >>> but I think that the stockings must have shrunken considerably, given >>> their current rather stumpy shape. >> >>I'm not sure silk would shrink under those conditions. I haven't tried >>washing knitted silk, but my impression is that just as silk is >>remarkably non-stretchy compared to wool, I'd expect it to be fairly >>shrink-proof as well. > >Silk shrinks. At least the modern silk fabric I used for my wedding dress >did, and all I did to it was dunk it into a cool bath. (Good thing, too, >because I got soaked to the skin in it taking pictures on my wet rainy >wedding day) It shrunk several inches per yard. Wouldn't plain silk >strands used for knitting shrink the same way as silk used in woven fabric? > >Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 14:37:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HIbipI023338 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:37:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HIaric054952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:36:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIYlTu057810; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:35:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIYBPw057159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5HIXj2o088917 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:33:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j5HIXj3Z088916 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:33:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.95.11.46 ( [65.95.11.46]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:33:45 -0400 Message-ID: <1119033225.42b3178988819@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:33:45 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.95.11.46 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Everyone, I was just given a job as a summer historic interpreter at a house museum, recreating the 1856 Mennonite family that lived there. They have most of the costume for me, but they're missing some things, and I was hoping someone could tell me where to find them asap. I begin July 1. I need shoes, stockings, garters for the stockings, and a farm woman's corset. I live in Ontario, Canada, so it would be best if the suppliers were in Canada, but that's unlikely, so the States would be fine, too. Oh, I also need drawers, right? Also, the dresses they have are really heavy homespun, lined with linen, and are supposedly really hot. Is that correct? Why wouldn't they have worn a lighter cotton? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Laura -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 14:45:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HIjSR1023438 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:45:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HIhAhs055971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:43:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIhFVh065061; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:43:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIgtQK064765 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:42:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0xc3d7be6b.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [195.215.190.107]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2103C5EE016 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:42:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004801c5736c$55c408a0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:42:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] silk knit. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have in a box the fine knitting needles you pointed out for me, and also machine embroidery silk i baught from Aurora silk. I have not started the knitting of the stockings yeat, but i have made a sampler where i use 2 threads and i get 16 stitches an inch. I am not kittin, i really plan to knit those stockings for myself, but i will make them next autumn vinter, because i dont want to waist this season of light, for my embroidery where the importance of colours in the embroidery really takes the best light of the summer period. But my hands are ichy though.............. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 14:48:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HImtHv023482 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HImDea056475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HImecJ069105; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:48:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.219]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5HImaCs068974 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:48:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 15172 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2005 18:48:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=jwjAUkitSCdVJoaaboXWSFWoSN74HF2yS2dDEmPAM8myGRqb0saUyJLQhrs6sUGaKhoTGZhNs+v+X5c8Xx+JUNTkpAl/A8FjooeNgSkfl8/aO4xt8PNZxDmM8PNU/WUg2ygAiIuRUelqPjoRAZc9Dwj8y+Hn/9OUQpsYTBPjeE8= ; Message-ID: <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:48:03 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:48:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506171822.j5HIMEes048136@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: stockings X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Funny you should mention stockings. I just started to TRY and knit a pait of stocking using Mara Riley's 18c pattern and graph and excellent instruction. Note I said TRY , Its going to taker me a long time. I wanted to do this for a long time, but it didn't really rise to the top of my radar til I saw some Halycon Silk and wool mixture. It is so nice. I got a color called apricot (authentic 18 cent.? I don't fully know, but I think it is close enough to Aurora to pass, a little more oranngy, rather that pinky, but it will have to pass) I started on 00 needles, not quite fine enough. and the darned stuff kept slipping off the needles???!!!. At a local knitting clatch at out Library in Charlotte, someone suggested, Try it on cirular Needles (my respose, do they have them that small? Surprisingly they do.) I could only get 000 circulars, which I am knitting on now. lovely fine stiches now, but I know it will take me forever. I only have about 1 inch of the stocking done. But the silk and wook is so lovely and fine Mia in CHarlotte NC --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 14:55:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HItYAA023534 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HIsjAC057287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:54:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HItAOf073945; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5HIt6nI073876 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-28206); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:52:42 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:52:42 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050617115156.00dc0200@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:54:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: stockings In-Reply-To: <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200506171822.j5HIMEes048136@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, silk is slippery stuff to knit. I found that you need to knit a bit more tightly than with wool, since silk has much less than elasticity than wool. I also found that I needed to have fewer stitches per needle than with wool to prevent them slipping off easily. Joan At 11:48 AM 6/17/2005 -0700, you wrote: >Funny you should mention stockings. > >I just started to TRY and knit a pait of stocking using Mara Riley's 18c >pattern and graph and excellent instruction. Note I said TRY , Its going >to taker me a long time. > >I wanted to do this for a long time, but it didn't really rise to the top >of my radar til I saw some Halycon Silk and wool mixture. It is so nice. I >got a color called apricot (authentic 18 cent.? I don't fully know, but I >think it is close enough to Aurora to pass, a little more oranngy, rather >that pinky, but it will have to pass) > >I started on 00 needles, not quite fine enough. and the darned stuff kept >slipping off the needles???!!!. At a local knitting clatch at out Library >in Charlotte, someone suggested, Try it on cirular Needles (my respose, do >they have them that small? Surprisingly they do.) I could only get 000 >circulars, which I am knitting on now. lovely fine stiches now, but I >know it will take me forever. I only have about 1 inch of the stocking >done. But the silk and wook is so lovely and fine > > > >Mia in CHarlotte NC _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 14:58:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HIwwYn023571 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HIvofk057706 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:57:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIwGp4076370; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:58:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:2yWFJ+r3ng3VlKBrHUlHK4ucHPzIIYez@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HIw9KI076240 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:58:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j5HIvaqn008201 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:57:36 -0400 Received: from dci012034013061.discovery.com ([12.34.13.61]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49347.12.34.13.61.1119034656.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200506171822.j5HIMEes048136@net.indra.com> <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: stockings From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You can also get little rubber ends to put on the double point needles, on the non-working ends. If the rubber ebds are too big, you can poke the needle through them and they will hold. I don't kow how well circular needles work when you are decreasing. Do you need to get a shorter one? Also you will find the double points helpful when you divide the stitches to thrn the heel. -Carol > I started on 00 needles, not quite fine enough. and the darned stuff kept > slipping off the needles???!!!. At a local knitting clatch at out Library > in Charlotte, someone suggested, Try it on cirular Needles (my respose, do > they have them that small? Surprisingly they do.) I could only get 000 > circulars, which I am knitting on now. lovely fine stiches now, but I > know it will take me forever. I only have about 1 inch of the stocking > done. But the silk and wook is so lovely and fine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 15:06:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HJ6kcC023617 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HJ67eO058547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:06:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJ6NiV082172; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:06:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (granite1.mail.cornell.edu [128.253.83.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJ6DhU082060 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ms154@cornell.edu) Received: from Bellview.cornell.edu ([128.253.111.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by authusersmtp.mail.cornell.edu (8.13.1/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5HJ96hu008434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050617150419.01850210@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: ms154@postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:05:44 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: M Stewart Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: stockings In-Reply-To: <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200506171822.j5HIMEes048136@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mia... you have my admiration and my sympathy. ; > Been there done that - and IMO, it was worth all the effort. Enjoy the journey and please let us se when you get there. Wishing you success. Bridgette >I wanted to do this for a long time, but it didn't really rise to the top >of my radar til I saw some Halycon Silk and wool mixture. It is so nice. I >got a color called apricot (authentic 18 cent.? I don't fully know, but I >think it is close enough to Aurora to pass, a little more oranngy, rather >that pinky, but it will have to pass) > >I started on 00 needles, not quite fine enough. and the darned stuff kept >slipping off the needles???!!!. At a local knitting clatch at out Library >in Charlotte, someone suggested, Try it on cirular Needles (my respose, do >they have them that small? Surprisingly they do.) I could only get 000 >circulars, which I am knitting on now. lovely fine stiches now, but I >know it will take me forever. I only have about 1 inch of the stocking >done. But the silk and wook is so lovely and fine > > > >Mia in CHarlotte NC _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 15:13:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HJDTC7023642 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:13:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HJCffV060339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:12:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJCrSs086795; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:12:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJCdWG086578 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:12:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DjMG9-000N4n-6Z for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:12:09 +0000 Message-ID: <6HNIXCD4AysCJwtn@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:10:48 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<$b$N+Bh34zdCSF4tIRiTWmAagP>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote >Anyway, any and all suggestions or experiences working with the various >velvets for hats would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions for >appropriate silk to use for lining the hats would be helpful. I am >concerned with using something too slippery, as I don't want them >falling or sliding around my head all the time. > With the designs I have tried, I would wear some sort of linen undercap under the part that grips your head, with the silk just lining the hanging parts of the velvet. The velvet may be sewn directly to the structural bits, in which case you stop the silk at the edge of that, or may be a separate top layer pinned on, with lining throughout. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 15:30:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HJUKoq023784 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:30:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HJTbr1062931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:29:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJTmGa099103; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJTZVk098891 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:29:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so498047wra for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:29:01 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=bLT3aCzUa6+TXTwvWmG7X8nEVYHGqF+cNfW9KCkHfZoykzOyKgrSLtpbOluhwEuSOLJtZgfu+KCIgHpBpzdD79DAODvil/qgYFn+vajdwjkq9trmXjiEp9SRbausFBYn8ExbH812b5EETRIx0sO8Dy4rc1mDqRaPG2OBOc/Zhh8= Received: by 10.54.99.14 with SMTP id w14mr1424790wrb; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:29:01 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics **Reply** In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5HJTZVk098891 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Welcome back, Kimiko. I'm very sorry for your loss and overjoyed for you girl-to-be. I love to make hats and have taken classes and read a zillion books about it. I've looked for millinery velvet and haven't been able to find it anywhere. The closest I think I've come is upholstery velvet, and it was SO thick I chickened out and didn't use it. No, velour isn't the same thing. The velvet is usually by-the-yard and velour is usually in a blocked or unblocked hat form. You could always purchase an umblocked hood and cut it up if you wanted to. CalMill or Leko or Manny's in New York (wonderful company, slow sometimes-overnight others, their catalog is great, no website that I can remember). I'm at work so I don't have the Manny's info here; google them. You will have to send a check for their catalog and I don't remember how much it costs - $8? $10? I have used bengaline for later period Tudor hats and it works beautifully. The issue is that bengaline fades in the bright sun eventually, and I know that neither you nor I have ever done a fair that wasn't bright sunshine. May I suggest a good weight, good quality wool instead of velvet or velveteen. Wool gives a wonderfully rich look to English renaissance pieces, and we all know that it's very period. You'll also have a wider choice of colors in wool. As much as I love silk (I'm one of the silk chemise proponents) I've used cotton for all my hat linings; however, I've never made a gable hat. Don't they tie on? Would small combs sewn into the sweat band help keep it on your head in the right position? And please take the time to put in a sweat band in millinary grossgrain, a.k.a. petersham, not the regular grossgrain. If you can afford it, Cal Mill also has wide, thin leather sweatbands (I think they're about $8-10), used in men's hats but even better than the petersham for hat protection. You know we sweat into our hats, and the sweatband will protect the lining and the buckram from the salt and the liquid. Sweatbands are easier and cheaper to replace than the whole hat. Regular grossgrain is usually made of polyester and won't absorb the sweat nor will it swirl the way petersham will (check From the Head Up for how to swirl and why it's so great). And Kimiko, you may want to check out Lynn McMaster's website for info and patterns for making many types of Renaissance style hats. I know you've met her at Costume College. Will we see you at Costume College this year, with your imminent "visitation" or is October far enough away that you can make the trip from Fresno? I hope to see you again there. Maybe we can take more classes together. LynnD On 6/17/05, Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi Melody, > > At 09:36 PM 6/16/2005, you wrote: > > **My condolences to you,lost my mom 362 days ago** > > Thank you. My condolences to you as well. Moms are so very special, and > it's hard to lose them. > > > ** do it one day at a time, don't rush your emotions** > > I try that approach. Some days are definitely better than others. Today was > a good one. > > >** Congrats!,new life -a blessing** which after two > > > boys will be different for me. ** Just think, tennie > >tinenie Tudors to make!** > > Yeah, and girly styles this time. My boy toddler wore appropriate Tudor > "gowns" and kept getting called a girl for it. Now I will have a girl in a > gown. I guess I will have to make something else for my boy, as he's > outgrown his old gown. > > > > if cotton velvet or silk/rayon velvet would be > > > better choices for hats? > >** lighter in weight-heavier in nap,millinery velvet. > >I think the cotton velvet is more in that line then > >the silk** > > I have yet to find millinery velvet, and only worked in cotton velvet once > for a doublet. Cotton velvet is thicker than velveteen so I am wondering if > it will be harder to sew up as a hat? > > > > Is there a millinery velvet still available? I > > > searched for millinery velvet in LA's hat store > >(the one at the edge of the garment district), but > > > I didn't see it. Might have overlooked it > > > considering how dark the place was. > > ** have 2 listings for supplies California Millinery > >721 S.Spring .L.A. and Richard the Thread 8320 > >Melrose #201 L.A. 800 748 5830 (check #)** > > It was California Millinery that I went to in LA. Very dark place. They no > longer send out catalogs of their things, and phone calls take forever to > get answered. I forgot to ask about millinery velvet when I was there, but > I did get other supplies like heavy buckram and heavy gauge wire. > > I will have to dig up my Richard the Thread catalog and see if he carries > millinery velvet. I've also checked Hats by Leko and JudithM Hats online, > and they seem to carry velour, either pre-made hats or the fabric. Is that > the same as millinery velvet?? I've been checking other online sources and > still can't find millinery velvet. There is a mail order source I may have > to try; Manny's Millinery Supply in NY. > > >** what about using the silk only on the part that > >shows and a cotton for the"works" part?** > > I have used either linen or cotton for the lining before. I wanted to try a > silk lining, but I am not sure what kind of silk would work best. (Maybe a > crepe?) Even cotton ends up slipping around on my head. Seems china silk is > the usual lining according to some websites, and the book. > > > > ** hope this helps, You might want to take a look at > >Denise Dreher"s "From the neck Up " book has info,tips > > & patters, I swear by mine** > > Melody > > I have the book, which helped me before, but on the specifics of fabrics, I > can't find anything really helpful regarding velvet, other than it saying > that millinery velvet is more suitable than other velvets for hats. But > thanks for reminding me to look at the book again. It's been a year since I > read it last. > > Thank you, > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 15:41:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HJfwWr023870 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HJfFBT064051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:41:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJf5ff007452; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:41:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.23.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJeae9007027 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bchamber@suffolk.lib.ny.us) Received: from bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with SMTP id 58570A5402A for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bcimpnoz0qs8p0 (pri-nat-16-ppp.suffolk.lib.ny.us [209.139.109.16]) by bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43827A5402A for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:37:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Beth Chamberlain" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:40:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-Reply-To: <1119033225.42b3178988819@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Thread-Index: AcVzbASNIHtjYubsSySAsU8zmLAJCgAB3x6g Message-Id: <20050617193755.43827A5402A@bilbo.suffolk.lib.ny.us> X-VBSHLD-SCLID: A11F9A45094 X-DCC-dcc3mcgill-Metrics: net.indra.com 1275; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Laura Morlock wrote: >Also, the dresses they have are really heavy homespun, lined with linen, and are supposedly really hot. Is that correct? Why wouldn't they have worn a lighter cotton?< Is the dress linen or just the lining? I don't know enough about Mennonites to know if this is related or not. During that same time period Quakers in the US were shunning domestically produced cotton because is it was grown with slave labor. They would use wool or linen instead, or if possible, buy cottons from India. I know I've heard reference to the Amish (in Pennsylvania at least) being anti-slavery but I don't know if they sought out free labor products or not. Beth Chamberlain _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 15:43:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HJhFq7023889 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:43:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HJgYSj064248 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJgjlP008666; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HJgTET008423 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:42:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so1125331wra for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:41:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ZS+AV71x5OZF69pIg8/Hd6eRYA2wrRXuxPKfIkj2dev4X/qxixsN/tw+pU99/+kntYsii8e4HDSK+zJPUUdc6PVJhQ4gDMCXZcAiwPntryGLLzCNpyL3Ea2vxfICRoLtHgba2ngi98jF5OFhu/2tW0c04PdLCBwFWtudLzXkGQ8= Received: by 10.54.112.2 with SMTP id k2mr1445600wrc; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05061712411efe6a54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:41:55 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted In-Reply-To: <000801c57358$348fe910$6401a8c0@kimathlon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <18202.165.236.184.195.1119022503.squirrel@165.236.184.195> <000801c57358$348fe910$6401a8c0@kimathlon> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5HJgTET008423 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To Nancy's original question: I've got a New Home serger, the most expensive one I could afford when I bought it, and I love it. I"m sure I'm not using it as completely as I could, but it still intimidates me. I want to take another class on all the things a serger can help me with this summer. I won't recommend it because you can probably afford a better one than I got, as happy with it as I am. However, sometime in the last year and a half, Threads Magazine did a comparison report on different brands and types of sergers, going from the least expensive ones to some really expensive ones. I don't know if it's on their website or if you have back issues of Threads or what, but that might be a really good place to start research. And, as Kim said, take your own fabric with you to try out. That highly sized muslin they try to get you to use on the machines will give you no real idea of what it'll do on your prewashed thick fabrics. I brought heavy wools, light silks and velveteens to use with the machines, and found that some of the more expensive machines couldn't take the heavy fabrics I use constantly. I always love it when someone is looking for a new machine. I remember how exciting it was to sew on my serger for the first time! LynnD On 6/17/05, kim baird wrote: > Yes, I use 3 threads to overcast cut edges and prevent raveling: both > loopers and the left needle. > > Even when I change colors, I rarely have to re-thread the machine. I > simply dial the looper tensions down to ZERO, tie the new thread onto > the old above the first thread guide, and pull it through. BUT--before > you do this, cut the needle thread, then re-thread the needle after the > loopers are done. > > Don't forget to dial the tension back up from zero! > > Kim > > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On Behalf Of Chiara Francesca Arianna d'Onofrio > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:35 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted > > > Ah ha! An expert!! > > Ok, ravel question then. A 3/4 server is good for linen that will not > quite raveling, yes? > > One of my girlfriends just got a new one from her oh so wonderful hubby > and he has been playing with it too. She is sooo lucky. ;) > > Anyhow, that is her question. :) > > Chiara > > On Fri, June 17, 2005 9:48 am, kim baird said: > > Nancy-- > > > > I think you should dump the 12 year old Singer and get a new serger. > > > > And, even though all sergers are made in China or Japan or Korea, not > > by the actual sewing machine companies (such as Pfaff or Singer), I > > would > > not recommend a Singer. > > > > You can find some very pricey sergers out there, with lots of bells > > and whistles. Most of them do a great job, and many of the expensive > > features are convenient, if you want to pay for them. > > > > But you can also find more basic sergers that work just as well, but > > they make you do a little of the work yourself, adjusting tensions and > > stitch lengths and widths rather than pushing a button for pre-set > > stitches. These basic sergers are NOT difficult to thread, although > > retailers take advantage of the serger's reputation as hard to > > thread to > > sell you models that are in some way self-threading. Again, if you > > care > > to pay extra, this is not a bad feature. > > > > Take some of the fabric you typically sew with, go to your favorite > > dealer, and try out some sergers. Don't listen too closely to the > > salesperson's spiel--judge by the machine itself, as you use it. > > > > If you NEVER sew modern clothing with knits, you don't need a machine > > that can do a cover stitch. As an adjunct to historical costume, you > > will be perfectly happy with a 3/4thread machine that has > > differential > > feed. > > > > Kim > > (ex-dealer) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 16:51:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HKpBGK024287 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:51:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HKo1b2002579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:50:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HKoM5L058535; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:50:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HKoCWw058418 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:50:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-14.cvip.net [129.8.207.14]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F315D8A5 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617124124.0311e798@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:49:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics **Reply** In-Reply-To: <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi LynnD, It's good to know you are still here, too. I always enjoy your posts. At 12:29 PM 6/17/2005, you wrote: >Welcome back, Kimiko. I'm very sorry for your loss and overjoyed for >you girl-to-be. Thank you on both counts. >I love to make hats and have taken classes and read a zillion books about it. I would love to take more in-depth hat making classes, but Fresno has zilch on millinery, and trips to LA or SF will have to wait for a year or two. >I've looked for millinery velvet and haven't been able to find it >anywhere. The closest I think I've come is upholstery velvet, and it >was SO thick I chickened out and didn't use it. I was wondering as well on upholstery velvet, because it is thicker, which is great for costumes, but on hats... my hands hurt enough after the velveteen Italian Bonnet I made for my hubby (I hate curved needles). >No, velour isn't the >same thing. The velvet is usually by-the-yard and velour is usually in >a blocked or unblocked hat form. You could always purchase an >umblocked hood and cut it up if you wanted to. Thanks for the idea, but no thanks. The term "velour" in general reminds me of cheap stuff, and I wanted to go into nicer fabrics. >I'm at work so I don't have the Manny's info here; google them. You will >have to send a check for their catalog and I don't remember how much >it costs - $8? $10? Ok, I got their info, and will call them to find out how much their catalog is. >I have used bengaline for later period Tudor hats and it works I have used some bengaline before for a bodice for a friend, so I may have some around to try out. But you are right that sun fade would be an issue. >May I suggest a good weight, good quality >wool instead of velvet or velveteen. Again, it would be an issue of weight and look. While you, I, and others here know wool is period and appropriate for court wear, the court group we work with (not my own, but another) prefers to stay away from wool, because that has more of a "merchant class" look that they don't want. They gave me all sorts of issues with my nice suit-weight wool surcoat, even with the velvet appliques. >however, I've never made a gable hat. Don't >they tie on? Would small combs sewn into the sweat band help keep it >on your head in the right position? I have found one pattern for a gable that doesn't tie on, the pressure of the wires keep it on the head. The other patterns I have seen do have it tie on. Not sure yet which I am going to use. I've used small hair combs in the past on my French hood, but even then the hat slides off the back of my head for some reason. It may have been the pattern or something else. The lining was cotton muslin. >And please take the time to put in >a sweat band in millinary grossgrain, a.k.a. petersham, not the >regular grossgrain. I bought some petersham at California Millinery last year which I plan on using. > Regular grossgrain is usually >made of polyester and won't absorb the sweat nor will it swirl the way >petersham will (check From the Head Up for how to swirl and why it's >so great). I will check that section out. >And Kimiko, you may want to check out Lynn McMaster's website for info >and patterns for making many types of Renaissance style hats. I know >you've met her at Costume College. I actually knew Lynn years ago when she was a member of the Royal Stewarts (they were based near Salinas/Monterey). I have a few of her patterns, like the Italian Bonnet I made for my hubby (which I enjoy wearing as well). I also have one of her french hoods and her tall hat. I may make the tall hat for my Elizabethan, but the gable and French hood come first. >Will we see you at Costume College this year, with your imminent >"visitation" or is October far enough away that you can make the trip >from Fresno? I hope to see you again there. Maybe we can take more >classes together. > >LynnD Unfortunately, I didn't sign up for costume college this year, as I didn't know how long Mom's battle would last. She was doing fairly well until her final couple of weeks, so I expected to be busy in July/August. I plan on going next year if I can either take my baby with me (if she's quiet enough) or if I can leave her with daddy without too much hassle. Time will tell. Please enjoy yourself at CC, and let me know of anything really interesting. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 17:12:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HLC0Bk024415 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:12:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HLBHbf012979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:11:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HLBMYp073406; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:11:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HLAbR8072949 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:11:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-14.cvip.net [129.8.207.14]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1892E2E1C8 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617140551.0311db88@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:09:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics In-Reply-To: <6HNIXCD4AysCJwtn@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <6HNIXCD4AysCJwtn@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Jean, When you say a "linen undercap under the part that grips your head", do you mean something like a biggens or coif? Or did you mean linen lining the hat where it meets the head? If a separate undercap, how do you keep the main hat and the undercap together? And I like the idea of a full lining in something else (my favorite lately is linen, would that work?) with only silk on those showing parts of a hat. Thanks for the ideas. Kimiko At 12:10 PM 6/17/2005, you wrote: >Kimiko Small wrote >>Anyway, any and all suggestions or experiences working with the various >>velvets for hats would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions for >>appropriate silk to use for lining the hats would be helpful. I am >>concerned with using something too slippery, as I don't want them falling >>or sliding around my head all the time. >With the designs I have tried, I would wear some sort of linen undercap >under the part that grips your head, with the silk just lining the hanging >parts of the velvet. The velvet may be sewn directly to the structural >bits, in which case you stop the silk at the edge of that, or may be a >separate top layer pinned on, with lining throughout. > >Jean > >-- >Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 17:12:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HLC2qI024418 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:12:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HLBIg8012983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:11:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HLBMjg073419; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:11:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HLAaqh072942 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:11:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-207-14.cvip.net [129.8.207.14]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 840AC2E1A1 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617135651.0311ef48@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:05:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics **Reply** In-Reply-To: <061720051413.13013.42B2DA89000EBAD2000032D5220588911608090 70E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> References: <061720051413.13013.42B2DA89000EBAD2000032D522058891160809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5HLAaqh072942 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Elena, Thanks for the suggestions. As I have shoulder length hair, I don't know if the bun idea would work, but it might. I read somewhere online about putting two front hair sections into a crisscross across the top of the head, and the back hair into a bun, to help stabilize a French hood I think it was. I will have to hunt that one down again as I can't find it in my Favorites folder. I will have to remember the direction of the velvet nap as well (something I didn't even think about). And I hope I can find a deep pile velvet that isn't too thick to work through. Thanks for the suggestions! Kimiko At 07:13 AM 6/17/2005, you wrote: >Gee, I can't really snip 'cuz good info in the body! I agree. I found >that a really nappy deep velvet is a must, because when it 'breaks' on the >fold, the ground isn't staring the audience in the face. > >Also, when I made my little Italian Ren hat (think what Elenora of Toledo >wore), I used a fabric with a really *strong* one way nap on the lowest >edge, on the part that touches the hair. I think I used a corduroy and >make sure the nap is pointing back towards the crown. If you have it >facing forward the silly little thing will just slide forward. > >Another thing, to keep the hat on, since I had long hair at the time, I >dressed my hair in a tight bun to fit directly into the crown, so that I >could take a hat pin and pin my hairbun to the crown, making sure to >gently 'tug' the front of the hat back so the nap sets into the >hair. Worked like a charm. > >Anyhow, these are my tips...for what they are worth...Now that I have >shorter hair, I'll have to think of a different way...I'm open to suggestions! > >-- >Slan go foill >Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri > >Emer's Needle Wares _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 18:08:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HM8Q1r024806 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:08:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HM7Xmm023584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:07:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HM7kZX012022; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HM7RA7011765 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.118 ([204.127.197.118]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005061722065301500i1ajge>; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:06:53 +0000 Received: from [128.95.14.45] by 204.127.197.118; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:06:52 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Recommendation on Sergers Wanted Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:06:52 +0000 Message-Id: <061720052206.19816.42B3497C0000205B00004D6822007507840809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found that linen dulled the serger blade on my serger very quickly...I learned to not serge linen and just do a different finish. I find quite easy to fold the linen garment's cut seam edges into the seam(so the cut edges are inside the fold) and sew at the folds, I sew that it up and looks like a top stitched french seam. Not sure if I'm clear enough...*sigh*...let me know if I need to figure a better way to explain... -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > Ah ha! An expert!! > > Ok, ravel question then. A 3/4 server is good for linen that will > not quite raveling, yes? > > One of my girlfriends just got a new one from her oh so wonderful > hubby and he has been playing with it too. She is sooo lucky. ;) > > Anyhow, that is her question. :) > > Chiara > > On Fri, June 17, 2005 9:48 am, kim baird said: > > Nancy-- > > > > I think you should dump the 12 year old Singer and get a new serger. > > > > And, even though all sergers are made in China or Japan or Korea, > > not by > > the actual sewing machine companies (such as Pfaff or Singer), I > > would > > not recommend a Singer. > > > > You can find some very pricey sergers out there, with lots of bells > > and > > whistles. Most of them do a great job, and many of the expensive > > features are convenient, if you want to pay for them. > > > > But you can also find more basic sergers that work just as well, but > > they make you do a little of the work yourself, adjusting tensions > > and > > stitch lengths and widths rather than pushing a button for pre-set > > stitches. These basic sergers are NOT difficult to thread, although > > retailers take advantage of the serger's reputation as hard to > > thread to > > sell you models that are in some way self-threading. Again, if you > > care > > to pay extra, this is not a bad feature. > > > > Take some of the fabric you typically sew with, go to your favorite > > dealer, and try out some sergers. Don't listen too closely to the > > salesperson's spiel--judge by the machine itself, as you use it. > > > > If you NEVER sew modern clothing with knits, you don't need a > > machine > > that can do a cover stitch. As an adjunct to historical costume, you > > will be perfectly happy with a 3/4thread machine that has > > differential > > feed. > > > > Kim > > (ex-dealer) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 18:29:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HMTbvG024937 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HMSrZf025894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HMTKfb026959; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:29:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HMTGYh026854 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0II90003X2G8BAD0@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:29:44 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Mending hems-wasRe: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape In-reply-to: <42B25A65.1040809@in-tch.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B34ED8.1030803@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <4.3.1.2.20050616174336.02725c08@mail.frys.com> <42B25A65.1040809@in-tch.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sue Clemenger wrote: > > --sue, who once mended the hem of an SCA dress with duct tape, and > never, ever, ever will do it again that way (it does Truly Evyl Things > to velveteen) > When I was in catholic school (uniforme was "kilts") we had a teacher who was so tierd of us going around with our hems falling apart that she would STAPEL our hems up! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 18:46:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HMk9rR025040 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:46:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HMjOVk027860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HMjq5l037987; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:45:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HMjkSD037884 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:45:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so1186678wra for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:45:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mcti8rb7so5+qFk9qs5Y+l25DtZ6YrqAs4fsrGCVNijovY/UIsr58k2oT78bGFISrQOk/GoAfIQl7qSneatyzb2GLZ5Dw8yytgnEtcccumnbimo5Gfwp01lD17zSOqiXk1GB7r6wcUQ/vNEWDh/tuJdolOLEkJRYzMCPLnazg6s= Received: by 10.54.51.26 with SMTP id y26mr1538332wry; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05061715453fc3755f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:45:11 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics **Reply** In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617124124.0311e798@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617124124.0311e798@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5HMjkSD037884 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 6/17/05, Kimiko Small wrote: > Hi LynnD, > > SNIP> > > > I was wondering as well on upholstery velvet, because it is thicker, which > is great for costumes, but on hats... my hands hurt enough after the > velveteen Italian Bonnet I made for my hubby (I hate curved needles). If you use Milliners' needles, it may be easier on your hands.These needles are quite thin with a large eye and they will bend with a bit of work - not into a semi-circle, but enough that you can get where you need to get while making a hat of buckram. I've stopped using almost any other kind of needle now for handwork. > > >No, velour isn't the > >same thing. The velvet is usually by-the-yard and velour is usually in > >a blocked or unblocked hat form. You could always purchase an > >umblocked hood and cut it up if you wanted to. > > Thanks for the idea, but no thanks. The term "velour" in general reminds me > of cheap stuff, and I wanted to go into nicer fabrics. Hat velour isn't that flocked stuff you're probably thinking of. It's a furry-er than usual felt, usually with a soft texture. A good velour will cost more than a "nice" felt hood because it is a better quality of felt. > > >May I suggest a good weight, good quality > >wool instead of velvet or velveteen. > > Again, it would be an issue of weight and look. While you, I, and others > here know wool is period and appropriate for court wear, the court group we > work with (not my own, but another) prefers to stay away from wool, because > that has more of a "merchant class" look that they don't want. They gave me > all sorts of issues with my nice suit-weight wool surcoat, even with the > velvet appliques. Every group is different in their tastes and requirement, and there's nothing one can do about it except educate or leave. As you know, many faires say that no one but the queen can wear purple, whether it was correct or not, because it only confuses the audience. The Northern California faires stayed away from wools for a long time, but a good (stout Englishman) wool is better than a cheap (woosy Frenchy) velveteen almost any day. ;) > > >however, I've never made a gable hat. Don't > >they tie on? Would small combs sewn into the sweat band help keep it > >on your head in the right position? > > I have found one pattern for a gable that doesn't tie on, the pressure of > the wires keep it on the head. The other patterns I have seen do have it > tie on. Not sure yet which I am going to use. > I've used small hair combs in the past on my French hood, but even then the > hat slides off the back of my head for some reason. It may have been the > pattern or something else. The lining was cotton muslin. My hair is thinning now that I'm on the other side of childbirth, and it's harder to do now, but you can also put a comb in the front of your hat and attach it to a twist of hair in the front. > SNIP petersham topic, Lynn McMasters, as wonderful as she is, and the upcoming Costume College in Los Angeles, CA> > > Please enjoy yourself at CC, and let me know of anything really interesting. > > Kimiko > Will do! LynnD _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 19:14:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HNEq6q025238 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:14:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HNDonp030962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:13:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HNEIRI055224; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:14:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HNEDhC055183 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=CvvS0h40XfqfpguKqF575FTDS4K40RgiA2XpRu/cfpu0bGH+E0kl9wEK+lNHw089; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DjQ1u-00034H-Tl for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:13:43 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617190817.0206c8e0@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:13:28 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier In-Reply-To: <1119033225.42b3178988819@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> References: <1119033225.42b3178988819@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22cccd07d8261097b1a879c7bbaa2c644e9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:33 PM 6/17/2005, Laura wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >I was just given a job as a summer historic interpreter at a house museum, >recreating the 1856 Mennonite family that lived there. They have most of the >costume for me, but they're missing some things, and I was hoping someone >could tell me where to find them asap. I begin July 1. I need shoes, >stockings, garters for the stockings, and a farm woman's corset. I live in >Ontario, Canada, so it would be best if the suppliers were in Canada, but >that's unlikely, so the States would be fine, too. Oh, I also need drawers, >right? Gohn Brothers, Middlebury, Indiana (USA). This is a small and delightful Mennonite company that has interesting stuff at very very reasonable prices. I haven't checked lately to see if they are still in business, but I'd be surprised if they weren't. The last time I wrote to them, they had a plain-paper catalog (no pictures) and the only address necessary to reach them was "Gohn Brothers, Middlebury Indiana [zipcode]." I know they had shoes, black cotton stockings, and garters -- not sure about the other stuff. (I phoned them once and one of the actual brothers answered the phone :) You can also search around for "Lehman Bros." which used to carry odd farm-things like working scythes -- again, don't know if they still do. Also in the US, the Vermont Country Store sometimes has authentic items of various kinds, but the last time I saw their catalog they seemed to be focused on "nostalgia" from the first half of the 20th century. Hope these help -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 19:22:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HNMeqH025265 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HNLusT031716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:21:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HNMQjx059586; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:22:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HNMOnE059548 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:22:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so1102803nzn for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:21:49 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=AOdKgME1VRCzn4VkCA4H3qILd9QnS3VwkpCHq6dBc7L/t2UhD9+uxVuB2QeDPKGxHKpNH+W6IS3gRmLjIF5pAiaWZN2y5GgAa3AYH21vX1x5PMAVdu1E4IHz0ITKng0igr3MbPPDIoijlFIOHe4+VGbFHwZmot07OdbE9E3qSS8= Received: by 10.36.222.3 with SMTP id u3mr755956nzg; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.75.18 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:21:49 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5HNMOnE059548 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: A busk, looking for pictures, late16th c X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I've got pictures somewhere, and I'll try to find and post them, of the Thanks, Carmen, appreciate it. >attachments. I've seen holes in the busk that correspond to eyelets in the >corset, with ribbon points to thread through both and tie. That's the >method I use for my 17th cen. corsets. I've also seen one that seemed to >have an extra long casing for the busk, with eyelets through both coset and >busk pocket, so that the ribbon didn't pass through the busk at all, but >closed the busk pocket. I've trolled Google images. Absolutely none have holes thru the busk for points. One, 18th c busk was pierced as part of the carved design. Looks like lace. Pretty! Where do you put the busk-point eyelets and why did you choose this (those?) locations? (This query to all the busk-wearing Elizabeth re-enactors out there.) The one I really want a pic of is in the Louvre, Objet d'Art collection, made of fanon de baleine, early 17th c (the reference is from a catalog list of ivory & related objects. I think it's the closest I'm going to get to 1600. Sorry, little slow responding to you, --cin CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 19:22:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5HNMmg0025268 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:22:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HNM693031756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:22:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HNMaV3059680; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HNMWuQ059644 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:22:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=BuP+lMROb28jXzWb7kbyV1CWDbPSXqbXpSHTFeMlg/T7O/+4IGiR0vkzIkQppy2O; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DjQ9x-00083l-HW for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:22:01 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617191746.020e2c58@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:21:46 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: Mending hems-was Re: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape In-Reply-To: <42B34ED8.1030803@optonline.net> References: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org> <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <4.3.1.2.20050616174336.02725c08@mail.frys.com> <42B25A65.1040809@in-tch.com> <42B34ED8.1030803@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22cece6cc00326f02c24b6855567bc0871d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >When I was in catholic school (uniforme was "kilts") we had a teacher who >was so tierd of us going around with our hems falling apart that she would >STAPLE our hems up! I actually used that trick last month, when I was putting on a dress to wear to the graduation ceremony of the school I work for -- and realized that the under-dress's hem was showing. So I quickly stapled it up a couple of inches. It held for the evening, which was all I needed! ObHistorical: It was one of my 13thc linen gowns I was wearing, and the white linen undergown was what was showing . I figured it was a comfortable, cool, plain linen dress in a flattering color, and with a conventional jacket over it, it only looked *slightly* odd! I always have trouble with the graduation events as I have essentially NO modern dress-up clothes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 20:00:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5I00vPL025437 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 20:00:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5HNxhKD036390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:59:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5HNxssW079864; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:59:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web54403.mail.yahoo.com (web54403.mail.yahoo.com [68.142.225.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5HNxmGH079778 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from texas_byrd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 87458 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2005 23:59:12 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=u1Ve8hLntKthwwZvWqg45ItWrnR3EdwfZniZ1yGSYRkhcUBCUqX5n2XK42A2ecjCXadmCrX9vD9p5zR12A69rgkFvD/w39ZklO9ST+Vzi+dLqF6AjYFqf15IarZssuuvkzHjs0hsLW4abmRFTon+yFevpT+mEJOgNFEq7qfsxGA= ; Message-ID: <20050617235912.87456.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.240.75.78] by web54403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:59:11 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:59:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary Lawhorne To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As a middle school teacher, I see a lot of droopy pants. Unfortunately, what these boys don't know is that this style developed in prisons. The droppy pants signal to the rest of the inmates, that they are (How does one say this is a politically correct manner?) be on the receiving end of homosexual intercourse. I wonder how many of the boys who wear their pants droopy really want that message sent out? As far as the girls, their pants are getting to that ultra-tight stage again. In the 70's some girls used wooden spoons to press themselves into their jeans. It was the big fashion in Texas for the cowgirl. I wonder if the boys will soon follow suit. Mary Lawhorne --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 21:17:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5I1HgUi025804 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:17:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5I1GcM7044175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:16:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I1H18I018688; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:17:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I1Gw3S018660 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:16:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m253.in-tch.com [216.166.191.253]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5I1BE417119 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42B37746.3060006@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:22:14 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050615162057.020884f8@pop.igc.org> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <200506151800.j5FI0HWX046069@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050615125618.02671ad0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050616101603.03664f80@mail.frys.com> <42B25654.5030004@in-tch.com> <42B25B08.2000006@paradise.net.nz> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617103314.02084bb0@pop.igc.org> <42B31296.8030804@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <42B31296.8030804@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It may depend on the weave, more than the fiber in this case....If your modern silk fabric had sizing in it, that might make a difference, and if it was a twill weave (wedding satin, anyone? ), it might "shrink" differently than a knitted fabric or plain-weave fabric. --sue Dawn wrote: > Silk shrinks. At least the modern silk fabric I used for my wedding > dress did, and all I did to it was dunk it into a cool bath. (Good > thing, too, because I got soaked to the skin in it taking pictures on my > wet rainy wedding day) It shrunk several inches per yard. Wouldn't plain > silk strands used for knitting shrink the same way as silk used in woven > fabric? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 21:21:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5I1Lpwb025843 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:21:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5I1LEuC044528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:21:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I1LhqM020860; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I1Ldek020819 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:21:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m253.in-tch.com [216.166.191.253]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5I1Fs417945 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42B3785E.8000902@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:26:54 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: stockings References: <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Normally, I'd say if you had a problem with the yarn slipping off needles, try some wooden ones, but I don't think they make them that fine. Circulars never would have occured to me, since I didn't know you could get them that small--where ever did you find them? --sue Mia Dappert wrote: > Funny you should mention stockings. > > I just started to TRY and knit a pait of stocking using Mara Riley's > 18c pattern and graph and excellent instruction. Note I said TRY , > Its going to taker me a long time. > > I wanted to do this for a long time, but it didn't really rise to the > top of my radar til I saw some Halycon Silk and wool mixture. It is > so nice. I got a color called apricot (authentic 18 cent.? I don't > fully know, but I think it is close enough to Aurora to pass, a > little more oranngy, rather that pinky, but it will have to pass) > > I started on 00 needles, not quite fine enough. and the darned stuff > kept slipping off the needles???!!!. At a local knitting clatch at > out Library in Charlotte, someone suggested, Try it on cirular > Needles (my respose, do they have them that small? Surprisingly they > do.) I could only get 000 circulars, which I am knitting on now. > lovely fine stiches now, but I know it will take me forever. I only > have about 1 inch of the stocking done. But the silk and wook is so > lovely and fine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 21:38:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5I1cO4H025939 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5I1bhY5046020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:37:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I1cE1f028759; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:38:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-5.paradise.net.nz (bm-5a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.24]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I1cB2J028723 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:38:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (smtp-2b.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.211]) by linda-5.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0II9004BQB6RW0@linda-5.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:37:39 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-2.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.2]) by smtp-2.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E2E9E2FF for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:37:38 +1200 (NZST) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:30:28 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] question about stockings In-reply-to: <4.2.2.20050617085114.00dc4a50@pop.surewest.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B37934.8060906@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <4.2.2.20050617085114.00dc4a50@pop.surewest.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan Jurancich wrote: > Most shrinkage associated with wool is due to felting (or fulling). > Silk does not felt, and one can stretch it back out after shrinkage. > >> >> >> Maybe the stockings react like modern pantyhose? After washing they >> look baggy and child-sized - but stretch to fit an adult. >> >> >> > > > If the original diameter was 23cm, that's a gauge of about >> > 16st/in, but I think that the stockings must have shrunken >> considerably, >> > given their current rather stumpy shape. >> > >> > I'm not sure silk would shrink under those conditions. I haven't >> > tried washing knitted silk, but my impression is that just as silk is >> > remarkably non-stretchy compared to wool, I'd expect it to be >> fairly shrink- >> > proof as well. > It may be that the knit fabric has more distorted than shrunk per se. Keep in mind that we can't readily test the conditions they were subjected to -- Eleonora's stockings did spend 300-odd years clothing a corpse :-) Adele d'M >> > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 17 21:58:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5I1wsCt026061 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:58:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5I1vjdP047994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:57:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I1wE9m038100; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web81407.mail.yahoo.com (web81407.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.96]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5I1wARB038020 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:58:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 9372 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jun 2005 01:57:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20050618015733.9370.qmail@web81407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.152.248.162] by web81407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:57:33 PDT X-RocketYMMF: cybalshouse Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:57:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Doyle Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: stockings To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <42B3785E.8000902@in-tch.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO in regards to knitting on circulars when you have to decrease smaller than the one circular needle... use two of them, will let you go around curves and still keep it all on your needles... alex --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > Normally, I'd say if you had a problem with the yarn slipping off > needles, try some wooden ones, but I don't think they make them that > fine. Circulars never would have occured to me, since I didn't know > you > could get them that small--where ever did you find them? > --sue > > Mia Dappert wrote: > > > Funny you should mention stockings. > > > > I just started to TRY and knit a pait of stocking using Mara > Riley's > > 18c pattern and graph and excellent instruction. Note I said TRY , > > Its going to taker me a long time. > > > > I wanted to do this for a long time, but it didn't really rise to > the > > top of my radar til I saw some Halycon Silk and wool mixture. It is > > so nice. I got a color called apricot (authentic 18 cent.? I don't > > fully know, but I think it is close enough to Aurora to pass, a > > little more oranngy, rather that pinky, but it will have to pass) > > > > I started on 00 needles, not quite fine enough. and the darned > stuff > > kept slipping off the needles???!!!. At a local knitting clatch at > > out Library in Charlotte, someone suggested, Try it on cirular > > Needles (my respose, do they have them that small? Surprisingly > they > > do.) I could only get 000 circulars, which I am knitting on now. > > lovely fine stiches now, but I know it will take me forever. I > only > > have about 1 inch of the stocking done. But the silk and wook is > so > > lovely and fine > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 01:02:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5I52AQd026820 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 01:02:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5I50woR064564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:00:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I51Osm018884; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:01:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I51H0J018790 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:01:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5I50rNs019948 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 01:00:54 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5I50XXP021182 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 01:00:43 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050617215230.0267b110@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:00:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: stockings In-Reply-To: <20050617184803.15170.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200506171822.j5HIMEes048136@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >At a local knitting clatch at out Library in Charlotte, someone suggested, >Try it on cirular Needles (my respose, do they have them that >small? Surprisingly they do.) I could only get 000 circulars, which I am >knitting on now. My mother knits lace doilies on circular needles, and she uses thread almost as fine as sewing thread, so there must be some pretty teensy-gauge circular needles out there. She starts out on wire double-pointed needles, goes to sleeve-size circular needles, then to bigger circular ones. She might get them mail-order from someplace, but I don't know. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 03:38:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5I7chJC021418 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:38:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5I7bwSg076949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 01:37:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I7cUiX085184; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 01:38:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5I7cQDh085123 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 01:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0663.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.82.152]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1793F31945F for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:37:46 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <42B3CF4B.2070103@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:37:47 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A busk, looking for pictures, late16th c References: <033b01c57103$6d0d35b0$0400a8c0@boris> In-Reply-To: <033b01c57103$6d0d35b0$0400a8c0@boris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is one dress with corset in Pattrens of fhasion from Dorothea. The corset and dress has holes to put lacing thru. So it atached the corset to the bodice of the dress. Probably to keep the bodice point from curling up. And maby even for keeping a jeweld belt in place. So I wonder if it was for keeping the busk in place. I don't think it wil work as I see where the holes are placed. Greetings, Deredere >> >> What I hope to find is pictographic evidence on how to attach the >> busk points (laces). Do they go thru holes in the busk? do they join >> thru or to a corset? Are they simply attached to the sarcenet busk >> casing? >> Are busk laces attached permanently so that giving busk laces to your >> paramour is something best at home? Does the lace pass thru some >> combo of corset, casing & busk meaning that to acquire a lace means the >> lover has some detailed, intimate knowledge of womens' costume? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 09:04:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5ID46R7029102 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:04:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5ID36V6014750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 07:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ID3exo028213; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 07:03:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5ID3bNw028126 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 07:03:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050618130253.KVIV11967.mta205-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:02:53 +1200 Received: from michaela ([222.153.66.227]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050618130253.MPFC8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:02:53 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.323 [267.7.8]); Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:02:57 +1200 Message-ID: <009501c57406$0c5526a0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz> <42B20DFA.1090202@thibault.org><42B216DD.1090902@paradise.net.nz><4.3.1.2.20050616174336.02725c08@mail.frys.com><42B25A65.1040809@in-tch.com> <42B34ED8.1030803@optonline.net> Subject: Re: Mending hems-wasRe: [h-cost] Historicals costume out of Duct/Duck tape Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:02:57 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > When I was in catholic school (uniforme was "kilts") we had a teacher > who was so tierd of us going around with our hems falling apart that she > would STAPEL our hems up! Heh, while working on Jack of All Trades our hems were taped and then finally held together using plastic tags! You know the sort sed to hold price tags in garments? It worked well too, as we were in damp sand most mornings which is when the damage to the hems actually happened. michaela "My butt is famous" de bruce http://glittersweet.com Not many people can lay claim to having an ECU on their bottom for a TV series;) it was a stunt goosing that I'm not sure made it to the final cut having not yet seen the episode... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 11:38:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5IFc28O030177 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:38:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5IFbKQD028312 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:37:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IFbt5T096304; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:37:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IFbpRp096273 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:37:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.fc.157af1bd (3850) for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:37:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:37:04 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: A busk, looking for pictures, late16th c/placement of eyelets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/17/2005 4:22:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cinbarnes@gmail.com writes: Where do you put the busk-point eyelets and why did you choose this (those?) locations? (This query to all the busk-wearing Elizabeth re-enactors out there.) I drilled two holes in the red oak busk that I made, and placed them about a quarter of an inch from the top of the busk. I then worked two eyelet holes , well, actually four counting front and back, in the corset so that I could run both ends of a small ribbon through from the back, then through the corset, and tie it in the front. And yes, I have given a couple of busk ribbons away in my time. ;-) ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 15:21:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5IJLmDQ032115 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5IJKVHN045745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:20:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IJL5Mc093369; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:21:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc14.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IDwViC052924 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 07:58:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc15.attbi.com[204.127.197.125]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <200506181357480140098o7je>; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:57:48 +0000 Received: from [67.183.234.254] by 204.127.197.111; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:57:47 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:57:47 +0000 Message-Id: <061820051357.22472.42B4285B0003DB9B000057C822058861720809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Quick Fixes...wasRe: Mending hems- X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While on the subject of quick fixes for hems. I've just discovered that glue sticks work wonders on holes in hose. The trick, though, is to catch it before it starts to run. The neat thing is that it doesn't get stiff like nail polish and even lasts through the wash. I used to use nail polish, but then I dumped my *really* old stash years ago, and didn't have any around when I started wearing hose again. Tried the elmers (or whatever brand it was) glue stick and voila! I'd love to hear other fixes...if this isn't too OT.. -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > > When I was in catholic school (uniforme was "kilts") we had a teacher > > who was so tierd of us going around with our hems falling apart that she > > would STAPEL our hems up! > > Heh, while working on Jack of All Trades our hems were taped and then > finally held together using plastic tags! You know the sort sed to hold > price tags in garments? It worked well too, as we were in damp sand most > mornings which is when the damage to the hems actually happened. > > michaela "My butt is famous" de bruce > http://glittersweet.com > Not many people can lay claim to having an ECU on their bottom for a TV > series;) it was a stunt goosing that I'm not sure made it to the final cut > having not yet seen the episode... > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 17/06/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 15:22:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5IJMGj1032121 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5IJLaoi045901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:21:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IJMGMl093965; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:22:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com [205.158.62.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IFmT0m001550 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 09:48:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katie_lewis@lycos.com) Received: from unknown (unknown [192.168.9.180]) by webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id B3950180012B for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT) X-OB-Received: from unknown (208.36.123.34) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 18 Jun 2005 15:47:44 -0000 Received: by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id A71C2C612E; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:47:44 +0000 (GMT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [149.169.241.83] by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for katie_lewis@lycos.com; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:47:44 -0500 From: "Katie Lewis" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:47:44 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier X-Originating-Ip: 149.169.241.83 X-Originating-Server: ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com Message-Id: <20050618154744.A71C2C612E@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5IFmT0m001550 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Laura wrote: > I need shoes, > stockings, garters for the stockings, and a farm woman's corset. I live in the US, so most of the suppliers I know about are here :( For the corset, I reccomened Kay Gnagney, her website is: http://www.originals-by-kay.com/ I purchased by corset from her, and found it to be both very comfortable and durable. For garters I suggest The Stevenson House their contact info can be found at this website: http://usregulars.web.aplus.net/vendors.html They also have a website, which I can't acess at the moment: http://www.thestevensonhouse.com/ They sell very nice, very comfortable flat woven elastic garters. For stockings, I just about any vendor who sells clothing to the 17th/18th/19th century reenactment crowd will sell stockings and most of them seem to come from the same place. For shoes I highly reccomend Missouri Boot and Shoe. Their work is top notch in terms of quality and authenticity.Their website is: www.missouribootandshoe.com There is also a shoemaker in Canada (I belive he is in Niagra Falls) who is highly spoken of, but I can't recall his name or find his contact information easily. > Oh, I also need drawers, > right? > I don't know much about Canada specifically, but in the US in the late 1850's and well into the 1860's there were a lot of women, especially rural women who didn't wear drawers. I would say that they are probobly "optional" for you. Also, some people thought that drawers, being bifurcated were inappropriate for women. I don't know if the Mennonites thought that or not, but it might be a factor. hope this helps, Katie Buffy: And what are we if not women up to a challenge? Willow: Exactly! I mean, did we not put the 'grr' in girl? -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 15:35:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5IJZI7t032209 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:35:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5IJYZfH046937 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IJZFSc099092; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IJZC8U099057 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 13:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.84.112.109]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IIA00B7KP1EFVN7@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:34:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:34:23 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier In-reply-to: <1119033225.42b3178988819@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello I would be careful on relying on either Gohn Brothers or Lehman's. The Amish are NOT living history enthusiasts. Just because some of there lifestyle seems primitive does not mean that they are living a mid nineteenth century lifestyle. In fact if you receive the Gohn Brothers catalog, you will be surprised by how much of it is man made, let alone more modern styles. Some of there items are useful with some alteration, some is not. I don't think I have any of there catalogs anymore, I suspect that stockings and garters can easily be had from them. They can also be easily had from just about every reenacting supplier (sutler) out there. These often have some manmade material in them, usually for stretch. That may or may not be a problem for you. For shoes, there are a few resources out there. Since you specifically preferred Canadian sources I will first suggest Robert Land. He can be contacted at R. Land Footwear [rlandfootwear@rogers.com]. He has no website unfortunately. I do not know if he has a catalog. He seems to live very close to the border. He does make women's shoes. Many of the 19th century shoemakers out there do not. He can also send you photos through email. Sometimes he sell seconds and castoffs on Ebay. Confederate Yankee, and American sutlery at http://www.confederateyankee.ws/ carry some of his shoes if you have trouble contacting him. He can also send you photos through email. Another supplier, cheaper but with less variation and styles as well as being south of the border, is Fugawee. http://www.fugawee.com/ I can't say I know much about modern Mennonites or the Amish for that matter, save what I have learned in my own observations and in some cases discussions with a few of them. I would be very surprised however if there are not some assumptions that are made regarding the present that may not be applicable to the past. I think you will need to do some research there. As far as your questions regarding wool gowns. Today the Mennonite women I see tend to wear cotton, so at least at present, that doesn't appear to be a problem. I do think the earlier idea makes sense (not giving profit to slavers) though like that poster I have no idea what the Mennonite stand on such a thing might be. On the other hand, they do prefer to be self-sufficient, and to avoid doing business with the englishers (except where they are profiting). On the other hand, none of these matters would prevent linen dresses. I suspect there may be room for research to determine if it is even true. Where I work, people see us dressed in the cold and say, " that must be very hot to wear in the summer!" Yes it would be, which is why we do dress differently in the summer! Lastly, as has been mentioned here before, wool does not equal hot. Ron Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Laura Morlock > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 1:34 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier > > > Hi Everyone, > > I was just given a job as a summer historic interpreter at a > house museum, > recreating the 1856 Mennonite family that lived there. They have > most of the > costume for me, but they're missing some things, and I was hoping someone > could tell me where to find them asap. I begin July 1. I need shoes, > stockings, garters for the stockings, and a farm woman's corset. > I live in > Ontario, Canada, so it would be best if the suppliers were in Canada, but > that's unlikely, so the States would be fine, too. Oh, I also > need drawers, > right? > > Also, the dresses they have are really heavy homespun, lined with > linen, and > are supposedly really hot. Is that correct? Why wouldn't they have worn a > lighter cotton? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Thanks, > Laura > > > -- > How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before > starting to > improve the world. > -Anne Frank > www.thehungersite.com > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 16:38:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5IKcsiC032576 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:38:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5IKbum9051656 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:37:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IKcZxZ025657; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:38:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5IKcVBw025614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:38:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5IKXKlR022090 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:33:20 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:33:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B4861A.10302@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 16:37:46 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing (UL) References: <20050617235912.87456.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050617235912.87456.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mary Lawhorne wrote: > Unfortunately, what these boys don't know is that this style > developed in prisons. True. > The droppy pants signal to the rest of the > inmates, that they are be on the receiving end of homosexual intercourse. Apparently not true. Full details at http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp but the crux is "Sagging pants became the behind-the-bars thing thanks to ill-fitting prison-issue garb: some of those incarcerated were provided with clothing a few sizes too large. That oversizing, coupled with the lack of belts in the big house..." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 19:16:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5INGtDj001064 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:16:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5INF9MJ062196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:15:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5INFm0K089549; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:15:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5INFip8089518 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:15:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=ht2V1Gya1bMU4o0wo/XXWtprOl8xKryE19Zke1HP+D0SPYu7gBfZT9+NeySXdb5C; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DjmWj-0005cv-Dk for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:15:01 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050618190601.0206b920@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:14:46 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning In-Reply-To: <42B4861A.10302@thibault.org> References: <20050617235912.87456.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com> <42B4861A.10302@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22ceca740eea91322fef2fe050859f9b725350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing (UL) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:37 PM 6/18/2005, you wrote: >>The droppy pants signal to the rest of the >>inmates, that they are be on the receiving end of homosexual intercourse. > >Apparently not true. > >Full details at http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp but the >crux is "Sagging pants became the behind-the-bars thing thanks to >ill-fitting prison-issue garb: some of those incarcerated were provided >with clothing a few sizes too large. That oversizing, coupled with the >lack of belts in the big house..." This is interesting. There seems to be a tendency for people to attribute complicated "code" meanings to certain items of clothing they regard as "strange" or "unusual" or -- for that matter -- related to a particular ethnicity. Of course, sometimes people _do_ have elaborate "codes" of meaning, but what interests me is that there seems to be a particular eagerness to believe such stories whether they have any basis or not. It seems to be a very attractive sort of explanation for some reason. Remember when there was supposed to be a great deal of esoteric significance -- again related to homosexuality in this case -- to exactly where or in which ears men wore earrings? Now they seem to be just earrings, for the most part. (And I just this afternoon ran across a website that attributed a "code" to the placement of a "claddagh" ring -- third finger of the right hand with the ring's heart pointing toward the fingernail means one is 'single and looking,' for instance, whereas with the heart pointing the other way it means one has a sweetheart....) As I say, certainly sometimes such things _are_ used as codes, I just find it interesting that it's a _type_ of explanation that seems to arise very easily and to be readily believed when it does, regardless of truth. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 19:37:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5INbYIa001162 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:37:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5INanQp063551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:36:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5INbUgb099274; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:37:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5INbP14099198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5INWClR022860 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:32:12 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:32:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B4B008.6050802@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:36:40 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing (UL) References: <20050617235912.87456.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com> <42B4861A.10302@thibault.org> <6.2.1.2.0.20050618190601.0206b920@pop.igc.org> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050618190601.0206b920@pop.igc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris Laning wrote: > As I say, certainly sometimes such things _are_ used as codes, I just > find it interesting that it's a _type_ of explanation that seems to > arise very easily and to be readily believed when it does, regardless of > truth. In this case, I think it's also an attempt to persuade kids not to do it -- rather like the "janitor washes the girl's bathroom mirror with the toilet brush" thing. The hope is that the kids will be so horrified that they'll stop. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Devonshire Tapestry images: a horseman with hawk and hound, two ladies talking, a man and a woman on a bridge, all on various useful things like tote bags, mugs and T-shirts at http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 19:40:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5INeZba001173 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:40:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5INdgkx063663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5INePjk000419; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5INeKtg000398 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:40:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5INZ2lR022924 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:35:02 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B4B0AE.9020302@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:39:26 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume notes 1662 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/06/18/index.php "That done he and I walked to Lilly’s, the painter’s, where we saw among other rare things, the Duchess of York, her whole body, sitting instate in a chair, in white sattin, and another of the King, that is not finished; most rare things." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 18 20:46:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5J0koOt001474 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:46:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5J0jnGd067933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Jun 2005 18:45:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5J0kSWN024866; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 18:46:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5J0kOd6024835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 18:46:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-178.sonic.net [209.148.113.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5J0jd6p011495 for ; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:45:40 -0700 Message-ID: <42B4C02A.8090907@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:45:30 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dye experiments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As I mentioned I am doing a washing-machine dye lot of knit tops once every week or so, and trying to figure out how to get something like the chart colors. Of course the different vendors of the same Procion MX dyes print some of the same colors differently on their charts, but anyway: When I use 100% cotton knit tops bought from Dharma, prewashed in Synthrapol and hot water and rinsed twice, the dye amounts recommended by Dharma (weighed for greater accuracy than measuring spoons) the amount of soda ash recommended, and 3 cups of salt per 15-gallon washer load: I get a medium shade. When I do all the same things but use the full amount of salt recommended: I get one shade darker, but still a medium shade of colors that are dark on the chart. Perceptibly but not drastically different from the color produced by the reduced-salt method. When I do all the same things, including using the full amount of salt AND doubling the quantity of dye, I get fairly close to the shade on the chart. At least with the colors I've tried. In other words, the quantity of water used by a washing machine (our small load is 15 gallons) really does make a difference, and the quantity of dye should be increased for washer dyeing. That's my experience so far, anyway. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 19 06:59:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5JAxQfB016845 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 06:59:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5JAvsCt023644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Jun 2005 04:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5JAwaw6067643; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 04:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5JAwWIg067606 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 04:58:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DjxUj-0001Tl-9G for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:57:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 11:56:12 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <6HNIXCD4AysCJwtn@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617140551.0311db88@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617140551.0311db88@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<3z7N+hz$4zdjyH4taZqTWGgId8>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Either way. I tend towards separate pieces, pinned together (pins, pins, pins! If your headdress annoys you, stick pins in it till it stops!). I find it easier to make everything behave - a cap/coif/thingy to control my hair and act as a base layer, then a structural element, then the "fashion fabric" which can be draped as you like without it having to meet multiple functions. But if you prefer to make it as a single unit you can just put linen lining on the bits which are close to your head, and therefore invisible, and silk on the parts that will show. In actual fact, my gable doesn't use anything to keep it on except the shape which (gently) grips the head. Once you have a base that is not going to slide on your hair, the next layer will not slide on it, and the top layer is pinned. Jean Kimiko Small wrote >Hi Jean, > >When you say a "linen undercap under the part that grips your head", do >you mean something like a biggens or coif? Or did you mean linen lining >the hat where it meets the head? If a separate undercap, how do you >keep the main hat and the undercap together? > >And I like the idea of a full lining in something else (my favorite >lately is linen, would that work?) with only silk on those showing >parts of a hat. > >Thanks for the ideas. > >Kimiko > > >At 12:10 PM 6/17/2005, you wrote: >>Kimiko Small wrote >>>Anyway, any and all suggestions or experiences working with the >>>various velvets for hats would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions >>>for appropriate silk to use for lining the hats would be helpful. I >>>am concerned with using something too slippery, as I don't want them >>>falling or sliding around my head all the time. >>With the designs I have tried, I would wear some sort of linen >>undercap under the part that grips your head, with the silk just >>lining the hanging parts of the velvet. The velvet may be sewn >>directly to the structural bits, in which case you stop the silk at >>the edge of that, or may be a separate top layer pinned on, with >>lining throughout. >> >>Jean >> >>-- >>Jean Waddie > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 19 09:36:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5JDaS24018256 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 09:36:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5JDZP4b034508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 19 Jun 2005 07:35:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5JDa8pX030308; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 07:36:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5JDa6Zk030280 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 07:36:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DjzxD-000Cis-6x for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:35:15 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 14:34:17 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] Curved needles References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617124124.0311e798@64.87.54.245> <8296995c05061715453fc3755f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8296995c05061715453fc3755f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote >On 6/17/05, Kimiko Small wrote: >> Hi LynnD, >> >> SNIP> >> >> >> I was wondering as well on upholstery velvet, because it is thicker, which >> is great for costumes, but on hats... my hands hurt enough after the >> velveteen Italian Bonnet I made for my hubby (I hate curved needles). > >If you use Milliners' needles, it may be easier on your hands.These >needles are quite thin with a large eye and they will bend with a bit >of work - not into a semi-circle, but enough that you can get where >you need to get while making a hat of buckram. I've stopped using >almost any other kind of needle now for handwork. Can anyone tell me, is there any type of curved needle you can buy that isn't a complete semicircle? They drive me nuts, the way you can't get the point into the fabric without the other end being on the fabric, which makes them so unwieldy. I always think a third of a circle would be so much easier to handle - do they exist? Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 07:55:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KBtdRN027090 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:55:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KBsiX4068250 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 05:54:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KBtf0f008164; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 05:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KBtPA6008058 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 05:55:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.190.4245699a (4184) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:54:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: <190.4245699a.2fe80863@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:54:11 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all, I belong to the members-only (restricted) PlainandModestDress group at yahoo, which was begun by a plain-dressing Quaker lady, but is populated with plain dressers of many religions and persuasions. Historic Mennonite garments have been discussed there several times, but the linen question has not come up before. I will be glad to post it and see if anyone knows the answer. Also, must agree with Ron Carnegie in his comments on Amish & Mennonite suppliers. Even though well-made, many of the products are 100% polyester --as in, not even blends. Gohn Brothers and Lehmans are both still producing according to members of the group, as they are often mentioned. However, Gohn reportedly stays rather backed up. The other sources mentioned for footwear and accessories for living history would more than likely be your better resources for authentic, historically-made attire. The mindset of modern plain-dressing groups is not geared toward history --it interests them as a part of their continual search for simplicity, and some of them who find modern undergarments abhorrently uncomfortable are even exploring wearing things like sensible stays --but historical accuracy is not their main interest. If anyone is interested in learning more about Mennonite & Amish and other plain-dressing groups, you could start by searching thru these 2 online lists of links here: _http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker/plain/_ (http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker/plain/) (http://www.nonviolence.org/) _http://stanosheck.com/Modesty.html_ (http://stanosheck.com/Modesty.html) Hope this helps, Best regards, Susannah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 08:57:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KCvd6W027593 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:57:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KCulHk073357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 06:56:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KCvlTT036365; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 06:57:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KCvjHj036346 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 06:57:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.51]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DkLpO-0000DJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:56:38 -0400 Message-ID: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:56:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My understanding is that it did develop in prison BUT because prison-issued clothing didn't necessarily fit, not because it was sending a message. I have to say I HATE that fashion, regardless of how it developed. If air circulation is what's desired, why not go with kilts? If female minds are meant to be distracted by imagining what's holding the pants up, yuck--THIS female mind can generate MUCH sexier fantasies than that! If they just want to fall over their clothes, untied shoelaces would do the trick. As for the tight pants, I can recall (1968) lying on my bed, shoulders-on-bed hips-raised, waiting for gravity to move my flesh neckward sufficiently so that my lower torso could squeeze into my hip-hugger bells. Never thought of spoons! I'd be content (delighted really) if both sexes went back to the way chinos used to fit the guys back in '64--snug in the butt, straight down from there. Now, THAT was sexy. I beg pardon for offering this peek into my gently dirty mind. What can I say?--I teach English; we're all a little perverted! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: Mary Lawhorne Sent: Jun 17, 2005 6:59 PM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing As a middle school teacher, I see a lot of droopy pants. Unfortunately, what these boys don't know is that this style developed in prisons. The droppy pants signal to the rest of the inmates, that they are (How does one say this is a politically correct manner?) be on the receiving end of homosexual intercourse. I wonder how many of the boys who wear their pants droopy really want that message sent out? As far as the girls, their pants are getting to that ultra-tight stage again. In the 70's some girls used wooden spoons to press themselves into their jeans. It was the big fashion in Texas for the cowgirl. I wonder if the boys will soon follow suit. Mary Lawhorne --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 09:00:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KD0aGb027632 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:00:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KCxSwp073512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 06:59:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KD0VRD037657; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:00:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5KD0QAs037573 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:00:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from corbiegirl@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 65333 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jun 2005 12:59:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Wb6S/jeTljcr0dgORDATqD6Yl6ksc9duu7cGYk06XzVBl6Y3Rhdxa9/q2f3BtFxGTHJKy4HKZfVgSjnJ4zbW4cy2pbFoKJa70AN2cB0q/CAbqtH+Sg/4/BLvwvVhpAkUvuN6JSfD6ZHWSsvKAU3kaCQY7oVtO04IFLbX4RSSDC4= ; Message-ID: <20050620125918.65331.qmail@web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.171] by web31015.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 05:59:18 PDT Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 05:59:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506191800.j5JI0ISc040008@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: urban legends, was 'droopy pants' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've recently seen yet another example of this. A friend of mine was at a recent costume workshop where someone (giving a lecture, unfortunately) said that in the 18th century, only prostitutes wore banyans. This is false and absolutely ridiculous -- I've seen enough portraits of respectable women wearing dressing gowns from the 18th c. to know better. Why is it that some people automatically decide that anything they dislike about 18th c. women's clothing can be attributed to prostitutes? I've heard rumors that various colors of stockings (red, green, yellow) were only worn by prostitutes -- this, again, is demonstrably false, since perfectly respectable women wore stockings of various colors without any stain on their virtue resulting. I'm SO tired of these things popping up. Time to add another 'rant' to the reenacting myths part of my website, I guess! -- Mara -------------------------- At 04:37 PM 6/18/2005, you wrote: This is interesting. There seems to be a tendency for people to attribute complicated "code" meanings to certain items of clothing they regard as "strange" or "unusual" or -- for that matter -- related to a particular ethnicity. Of course, sometimes people _do_ have elaborate "codes" of meaning, but what interests me is that there seems to be a particular eagerness to believe such stories whether they have any basis or not. It seems to be a very attractive sort of explanation for some reason. Remember when there was supposed to be a great deal of esoteric significance -- again related to homosexuality in this case -- to exactly where or in which ears men wore earrings? Now they seem to be just earrings, for the most part. --------------------- www.marariley.net - 18th century research and knitting patterns www.knittingobsession.com - modern knitting stuff --------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. - Voltaire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 09:42:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KDgrav027992 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:42:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KDemlH078225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:40:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KDfoNH060244; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:41:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KDfkNZ060196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5KDei2o004051 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:40:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j5KDeiZf004050 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:40:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.215.62 ( [65.93.215.62]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:40:44 -0400 Message-ID: <1119274844.42b6c75c85e02@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:40:44 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.215.62 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks, everybody, for all your help! Another question - some of the work dresses are short sleeved, about the length of a t-shirt. I was surprised by this - is it correct? I know the women who work there complain of dying in the heat, and so perhaps the took a short cut to coolness? Thanks again, Laura I belong to the members-only (restricted) PlainandModestDress group at   yahoo, which was begun by a plain-dressing Quaker lady, but is populated with   plain dressers of many religions and persuasions.  Historic Mennonite   garments have been discussed there several times, but the linen question has not   come up before.  I will be glad to post it and see if anyone knows the  answer.   Also, must agree with Ron Carnegie in his comments on Amish & Mennonite   suppliers.  Even though well-made, many of the products are 100% polyester   --as in, not even blends.  Gohn Brothers and Lehmans are both still  producing according to members of the group, as they are often mentioned.   However, Gohn reportedly stays rather backed up.  The other sources  mentioned for footwear and accessories for living history would more than  likely be your better resources for authentic, historically-made  attire.  The mindset of modern plain-dressing groups is not  geared toward history --it interests them as a part of their continual search  for simplicity, and some of them who find modern undergarments abhorrently  uncomfortable are even exploring wearing things like sensible stays --but  historical accuracy is not their main interest.   If anyone is interested in learning more about Mennonite & Amish and  other plain-dressing groups, you could start by searching thru these 2 online   lists of links here:   _http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker/plain/_ (http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker/plain/)  (http://www.nonviolence.org/)   _http://stanosheck.com/Modesty.html_ (http://stanosheck.com/Modesty.html)   Hope this helps,   Best regards, Susannah -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 10:03:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KE3IRx028119 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:03:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KE2Ljh080228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:02:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KE3LC1072759; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:03:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KE3ECq072651 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.216.32e4ac5 (15886) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M15 (mblk-m15.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.48]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID81-3e0e42b6cc5a1fc; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:02:02 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:02:02 -0400 Message-Id: <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Received: from 68.153.231.89 by MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.48) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:02:02 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.48 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Now see, I was recently told by a woman who claims to be in the know, that she had done several interviews while working on her master's on this subject. According to her, the style started to show that you were no different from other poor people who had to wear ill fitting hand me down clothing. I thought that sounded absolutely ridiculous, but she was very sincere that this is what she had been told in her interviews. Whatever the reason, I hate it. I am offended that I have to see men and boys, sometimes toddlers, with their pants well into the middle of their butts and their underwear showing. I do not understand why any level of society would condone and encourage this type of behavior and style of dress, and find it peculiar that such is permitted with men. Women would never be allowed to dress like that. Or, maybe it is just that we have enough sense not to....but then, there are the chicks that like the whole thong above the top of the jeans thing. ;-) ~Kimberley -----Original Message----- From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Sent: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:56:38 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing My understanding is that it did develop in prison BUT because prison-issued clothing didn't necessarily fit, not because it was sending a message. I have to say I HATE that fashion, regardless of how it developed. If air circulation is what's desired, why not go with kilts? If female minds are meant to be distracted by imagining what's holding the pants up, yuck--THIS female mind can generate MUCH sexier fantasies than that! If they just want to fall over their clothes, untied shoelaces would do the trick. As for the tight pants, I can recall (1968) lying on my bed, shoulders-on-bed hips-raised, waiting for gravity to move my flesh neckward sufficiently so that my lower torso could squeeze into my hip-hugger bells. Never thought of spoons! I'd be content (delighted really) if both sexes went back to the way chinos used to fit the guys back in '64--snug in the butt, straight down from there. Now, THAT was sexy. I beg pardon for offering this peek into my gently dirty mind. What can I say?--I teach English; we're all a little perverted! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: Mary Lawhorne Sent: Jun 17, 2005 6:59 PM To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing As a middle school teacher, I see a lot of droopy pants. Unfortunately, what these boys don't know is that this style developed in prisons. The droppy pants signal to the rest of the inmates, that they are (How does one say this is a politically correct manner?) be on the receiving end of homosexual intercourse. I wonder how many of the boys who wear their pants droopy really want that message sent out? As far as the girls, their pants are getting to that ultra-tight stage again. In the 70's some girls used wooden spoons to press themselves into their jeans. It was the big fashion in Texas for the cowgirl. I wonder if the boys will soon follow suit. Mary Lawhorne --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 11:29:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KFTEJE029316 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:29:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KFS9VC090873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:28:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KFT7TP036150; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:29:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40423.mail.yahoo.com (web40423.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5KFSxeq035944 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:29:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 87732 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jun 2005 15:27:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=X8VM2utvBCaRaGongWmQyytkuJ1DnoyXLOpMpLeWTIDnLwgcWpPX+5r5KcISygSKYbaKVKINwwvTfgn/s5Mq0+WpBuPWWiwKvsvU1nHid0QPpfxy/jz3K5nF/fq2t223lvxxYYS7TWV9k5ckwQ1VBu3Wd54lN+DT0f08rCvhKQs= ; Message-ID: <20050620152747.87730.qmail@web40423.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.169.12.111] by web40423.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:27:47 PDT Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:27:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506181800.j5II0F1w058465@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 1856 farm clothing supplier X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:47:44 -0500 > From: "Katie Lewis" > Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier > > > Laura wrote: > > > I need shoes, > > stockings, garters for the stockings, and a farm woman's corset. > > For garters I suggest The Stevenson House > their contact info can be found at this website: > http://usregulars.web.aplus.net/vendors.html > They also have a website, which I can't acess at the moment: > http://www.thestevensonhouse.com/ I'm about 99% sure that Stevenson House closed their business a year or two ago, which could be why the web URL doesn't work. (Bummer, too, cuz they had some nice hats!) ~mary "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 12:22:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KGMiTw029827 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:22:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KGLoY9097883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KGLfL2077413; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KG6IhG065018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5KG0dlR011368 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:00:39 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:00:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B6E937.9020706@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:05:11 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-MC-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO chindora@aol.com wrote: > I do not understand why > any level of society would condone and encourage this type of > behavior and style of dress, Because the subgroups that encourage it see themselves as rebels against those of us who do not. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 12:54:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KGsuS5030138 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:54:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KGrt80002053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:53:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KGsKUo002760; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:54:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KGrl32002280 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:53:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B5B3C85D for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:52:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:52:54 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] singer machine manuals X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A woman has contacted me about finding a manual for a Singer machine she bought. She claims she cannot find the model number listed anywhere, and thus is unable to find the right manual for it. Can someone point me to a sewing machine list where she might post a picture and get help identifying her machine? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 13:00:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KH0hbS030175 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:00:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KGx6SR002806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:59:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KH0AuP007798; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:00:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KH05pE007635 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:00:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562ED3C85D for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:58:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42B6F5E4.4040104@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:59:16 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <42B6E937.9020706@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <42B6E937.9020706@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia Virtue wrote: > chindora@aol.com wrote: > >> I do not understand why >> any level of society would condone and encourage this type of >> behavior and style of dress, > > > Because the subgroups that encourage it see themselves as rebels against > those of us who do not. > In my neighborhood there are more than a few young men who dress this way. The wide pants are only one of the status symbols they use in their social group. Shoes are another. Not too long ago I overheard a very enthusiast conversation regarding brand name shoes endorsed by a popular athlete. The boys were bragging to each other about how many pairs of unworn shoes they had, and who was going to be the first to get the latest style this spring. The pants are an attention getter and a status symbol. "Look at me, I can afford to buy clothing that serves no purpose other than to let you know I can waste money on this." Some people do it with jewelry or expensive cars. For these kids, it's clothing. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 13:44:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KHi5FS030619 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:44:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KHe3no008417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:43:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KHapSU038065; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:37:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mailrelay.k12.hi.us (mailrelay.k12.hi.us [165.248.247.161]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KHYUAY036177 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:35:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lisleong@k12.hi.us) Received: from Webshield2 (unknown [165.248.247.155]) by mailrelay.k12.hi.us (Postfix) with SMTP id CDFAC3F2E for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:33:23 -1000 (HST) Received: From makani ([165.248.1.195]) by Webshield2 (WebShield SMTP v4.5 MR1a P0803.345); id 1119288802951; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:33:22 -1000 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:33:23 -1000 (HST) From: lisa X-X-Sender: lisleong@makani To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] singer machine manuals In-Reply-To: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> Message-ID: References: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > A woman has contacted me about finding a manual for a Singer machine she > bought. She claims she cannot find the model number listed anywhere, and > thus is unable to find the right manual for it. Below is something I saved from another list I'm on. It's from a couple of years ago and I've never called myself so I don't know if it's a current service. ----------------- Regarding old Singer machines: call 1-800-4-SINGER, and have the serial numbers ready. They'll tell you the exact date and place of yur machine's birth, and have photocopies of the user's manual that they can send you for free. Even if you "know everythin" about the workings of your machine, it's still a neat thing to know. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 14:02:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KI2KEJ030771 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:02:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KI14Zu011400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:01:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KI224k059712; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:02:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:XfLoJAVLGwM3c4YCAmlk0DTPNoqhMmXW@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KI06Rf057946 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:00:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j5KHwnnG005926 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:58:54 -0400 Received: from dci012034013209.discovery.com ([12.34.13.209]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53425.12.34.13.209.1119290340.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimberly said, > I do not understand why any level of > society would condone and encourage this type of behavior and style of > dress, and find it peculiar that such is permitted with men. Women would > never be allowed to dress like that. Who is allowing what? I don't see any men in my office dressed that way, not even in the support staff. Any of them might do so after work or on the weekend. Remember Ebonics? It was the idea of accepting some things as part of thier own culture. Teen/young adult fashion has frequently been unappreciated by the older generation. It may affect their chances of being hired, depending on their desired career. Not everyone can be a rock star. :-) My nephew, who is in his early 20s, started shaving his head, and his parents told him he might have difficulty in the job market for that. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 14:53:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KIrZVI031102 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:53:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KIld76016609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KIlYHb095247; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KIkE2S094021 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:46:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 9so176150nzo for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:45:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=elbe+D+4BGK/XZW/yaPgj3O0oJ41cSQQEvTu+MXW14VvFHMoiJlpLtjYxwkietUoH/befem89LJztFNX8CEwW/MJrV2xJeq2hsIbAKY97seEt0kkFI48nZGDStGioQCjPwhrII2KYN8eI9tA9sVwrqpfMIbhHhSbvifMWd/nS+Y= Received: by 10.36.128.10 with SMTP id a10mr3406713nzd; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.9 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:44:59 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-Reply-To: <53425.12.34.13.209.1119290340.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <53425.12.34.13.209.1119290340.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5KIkE2S094021 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In this area, for some reason a shaved head and goatee seem to be "not an issue" for men. (For the most part it is with men in their late 20's early 30's who are starting to be concerned about obvious male pattern baldness... their SO's have convinced them that a nicely shaved head or very very short hair is *much* better than a comb over!) -Irmgart > My nephew, who is in his early 20s, started shaving his head, and his > parents told him he might have difficulty in the job market for that. > > -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 15:19:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KJJAXX031284 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:19:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KJHebR019850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:17:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KJIG4C019333; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:18:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web40425.mail.yahoo.com (web40425.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.92.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5KJIA9I019147 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hanstar88@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 86132 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jun 2005 19:16:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KH2XJcNiwq9P5zwqTIVIaBhRHbUHrM+SyxJodBJRXQzeKPUG5XuA3n2NmmT2OtLo/GJdo+JQ77WeQ2msN45GObIY49uY4nSQFuOe/Fhh6leQkdVsacOADuLL20e6zezewARoRm+sQ+6Z2NgoeshM+/cw6eoBUNDccqnC6aI2gOk= ; Message-ID: <20050620191656.86130.qmail@web40425.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.77.204.32] by web40425.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:16:56 PDT Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:16:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506201701.j5KH0N12007976@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: photos (was circular kneedles and stockings and ranting on repro shoes) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:02:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: Mia Dappert > Subject: photos (was circular kneedles and stockings and ranting > on repro shoes) > > > > Note to self: Have to find somewhere to put pictures, the sharing > of pictures from Bjarne and everyone else have helped me > immensely... and the input and sharing have really helped me refine > my scholarship. Sometime knowing what question to ask is as > important as knowing where to ask it > Mia, Since you already have a Yahoo account, why don't you use yahoo photos? You can store an unlimited amount of photos, put them into folders to organize, and you can designate some folders public and others private. Just my $0.02... ~mary "Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick & wicked." ~ Jane Austen "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before." ~ Steven Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 16:22:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KKMDmb031684 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KKKQAn027777 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:20:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKLSJP068145; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKLGDF067932 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:21:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.163] (pm5-163.eos.net [205.133.149.163]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5KKJrYL029472 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:19:55 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:12:09 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200506142353.j5ENrYfx091797@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: belly styles, modern fashion, etc. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have never seen jeans rolled up on one side on either boys or girls around here. Where I live, the latest thing among African American boys (and the more stylish white ones) is giant white t-shirts. T-shirts that go down past their knees. While it DOES hide their falling-down pants, it's really ugly. And because it's favored by criminals, who hide drugs and things under the shirts -- a thing I heard from a policeman, not from a horrified middle-aged person -- people who wear them are often banned from restaurants, malls, etc. Which of course makes them more attractive to rebellious types. Sigh. What I really can't stand is the way young girls dress. I have seen much more of plump young women than I really care to see. They look UGLY, never mind trashy. My husband and I play a game when we're out among crowds -- how many people do we see who ought to be allowed to wear low-rise pants in combination with high-rise shirts? We rarely come up with more than one, if that. The boys in their falling down clothes just look dumb. The girls really look horrible. I tend to agree with Kayta that most of these fashions are meant to make older people cringe. I just wish they didn't make EVERYONE cringe. And of course there is always the subtle question of whether certain kinds of dressing demeans people without their knowing it -- whether the message they mean to send is entirely different from the one they do send. I happen to think so, but not everyone would agree. Last year when I was shopping I heard a young teen ask her mother over and over again why she couldn't buy a particular shirt. Finally her mother, exasperated, said "Because you would look like a slut." I told a friend this story, and she said "The girl probably just said, 'Mom, if you think that's bad, you should see what the SLUTS are wearing!'" I'm glad I'm not a teenager. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 16:22:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KKMDoP031683 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:22:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KKJJ6R027680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:19:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKKA6l067160; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:20:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKJode066880 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:19:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E350343CE for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620122029.032f8c40@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:24:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-Reply-To: <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:02 AM 6/20/2005, you wrote: >I am offended that I have to see men and boys, sometimes toddlers, with >their pants well into the middle of their butts and their underwear showing. As the mom of a toddler I have to say that such pants hang low sometimes because the toddler is between sizes. For example, my son is too big for 2s, but in some pants not yet able to wear them, even tho they are size 3s, the next size up. Each maker is different in their sizing, so one companies size 3s fit just fine, but other size 3s from other companies hang on the poor boy. And I have yet to find suspenders for the few pants that aren't fitting right yet. And believe me, I hate the droopy drawers thing as much as most of you do. Kimiko PS Obligatory costume content: My son's Tudor overgown fit him from age 9 months to 2.5 years, with just a letdown of the hem. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Fresno, CA, USA "Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 16:34:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KKYl4b031779 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:34:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KKXwU6029389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKXka1077702; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:33:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKWwQ6077036 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:33:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPPT0NH4N494LC2F@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:31:48 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPPT0N4KJW94KZSZ@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:31:47 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:33:21 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-reply-to: <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B72811.4060706@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO chindora@aol.com wrote: >I am offended that I have to see men and boys, sometimes toddlers, with their pants well into the middle of their butts and their underwear showing. I do not understand why any level of society would condone and encourage this type of behavior > > Do you think you might be taking this a wee bit seriously? -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 16:43:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KKh6dp031822 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:43:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KKgCed030131 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:42:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKgg4I084419; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:42:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKgKms084076 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:42:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.15c.52b4366a (15862) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M15 (mblk-m15.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.48]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID61-3df642b729dd28; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:01 -0400 Message-Id: <8C743EF816768B9-670-D21D@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <42B72811.4060706@paradise.net.nz> Received: from 68.153.231.89 by MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.48) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:01 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <42B72811.4060706@paradise.net.nz> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.48 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, to me, underwear is supposed to be under your clothes, not on top. Maybe it is my southern sensibilities that are cringing. I don't know, but I feel as though I am being subjected to seeing a private part of a person, their drawers, that I would not choose to see, but it is being forced on me. And in response to Kimiko's note, I am absolutely positive that the toddlers that I see wearing this style are being made to emulate older people, and not just wearing pants that are too large. I have had 5 kids and know well the vagaries of fitting kids into store bought clothes, but these kids are dressed in a miniature 'gangsta' style, the chains around the neck, the whole nine yards. I really do like the idea of the Tudor gowns for the kids though. (wink) So, to move this back towards a more costume related vein, can we maybe list some styles throughout history that were openly reviled by the good folk of the time? I really treasure the snippets of information that are shared here and always enjoy the documentation and links that are shared. ~Kimberley -----Original Message----- From: Adele de Maisieres To: Historical Costume Sent: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:33:21 +1200 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing chindora@aol.com wrote: >I am offended that I have to see men and boys, sometimes toddlers, with their pants well into the middle of their butts and their underwear showing. I do not understand why any level of society would condone and encourage this type of behavior > > Do you think you might be taking this a wee bit seriously? -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 17:07:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KL7Mpb032039 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:07:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KL6Zrq032396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:06:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KL7RvD001701; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKuUfI093491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5KKtG2o042201 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:55:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j5KKtGUA042200 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:55:16 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.30.219 ( [65.93.30.219]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:55:16 -0400 Message-ID: <1119300916.42b72d343a56e@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:55:16 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.30.219 X-DCC-SINECTIS-Metrics: net.indra.com 1114; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] farm drawers X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO If some people believed drawers were inappropriate for women (because they were bifurcated), what did women wear underneath in 1856? Anything? Or was the shift the bottom layer and they went commando? Thanks, Laura -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 17:07:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KL7VYw032043 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KL6Zcp032399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:06:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KL7O4J001661; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:07:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKdJcS081663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:39:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5KKXblR013851 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:33:37 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:33:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B72930.4020407@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:38:08 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: belly styles, modern fashion, etc. References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > course there is always the subtle question of whether certain kinds of > dressing demeans people without their knowing it -- whether the message they > mean to send is entirely different from the one they do send. I think it's like a language. I don't know that language, so it sounds bad to me. But to the people in their peer group who speak that language of clothing, it must sound like real language, good language. They're not speaking to *me.* How many times have we costumer-types heard someone say they'd never wear a costume, or would wear X but not X's essential undergarment or accessory? They don't know our language either, and what sounds like poetry in one language may sound like a string of swear words in another. (On the toddler digression, I stocked a whole bunch of 2" safety pins for my twins. It solves the waistband issue very well. Maybe those inclined could pack some in their purses and give them to boys whose pants are drooping!) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum. -- Noam Chomsky _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 17:23:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KLNuxM032177 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:23:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KLMehD034208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KLNgZv014422; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KLNYxb014240 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so42313nzk for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=q3IXpHaoHp59FdsUUZKHa2grmkoi5wSeM7Bd/qXegGjHFcMwnooA/gnloSMzMOj3GVBftu9iMmKVrsTsFWVd0XGGuyF176rD0kg3O29oJavChqb/x5keFgP5aBLOZ8uoHYm+jGje3UgMKEba7umhmf+CiNQwWEnZXzKgncixNAg= Received: by 10.36.84.5 with SMTP id h5mr2926744nzb; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80506201422776ed27@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:22:21 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] farm drawers In-Reply-To: <1119300916.42b72d343a56e@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <1119300916.42b72d343a56e@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5KLNYxb014240 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm unsure where you got this info? Some women did go commando or did binding ( a pain I'm sure) but I think split drawers or regular drawers were the norm. On 6/20/05, Laura Morlock wrote: > If some people believed drawers were inappropriate for women (because they > were bifurcated), what did women wear underneath in 1856? Anything? Or was > the shift the bottom layer and they went commando? > > Thanks, > Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 17:51:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KLpYLR032354 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:51:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KLoOKl037079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:50:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KLoIdB034414; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KLnV35033781 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:49:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5KLmEG2017367 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:48:16 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5KLm7S8299686 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:48:12 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050620140834.03469388@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:08:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] singer machine manuals In-Reply-To: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-neonova-Metrics: net.indra.com 1127; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Can someone point me to a sewing machine list where she might post a >picture and get help identifying her machine? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 18:29:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KMTBBq032545 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:29:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KMLvLT041201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:28:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KLlT5X032324; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:47:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5KLl2vK031905 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:47:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail26.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.166]) by smtpout01.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBMQQH3A66H33A for (sender ); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:45:29 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn74ViJS+llU2z99A6p+qzw4wWtB0lSfZtzw== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail26.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KVYJFWPU; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:45:10 PDT Received: from [24.14.7.158] by webmail26.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:44:44 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.7.158] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:44:44 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] farm drawers X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <20050620.144510.157.165044@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 5:2:3415196943 X-MAIL-INFO: 5e958dc18d313d79313d70093d702969e5042d1d61b1043075dd614530d4a90c3020358195c495b4b570543d9509 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.166|webmail26.nyc.untd.com|outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's my understanding that bifurcated undergarments for women first became accepted during the Regency when 'pantalettes' were frequently worn for modesty/warm beneath light cotton frocks. During the Victorian era, they became more standard wear as 'cleanliness' and 'modesty' became associated with wearing bifurcated undergarments. These were still fully open at the crotch for ease in using the bathroom. This is essential as anyone who has tried wearing a corset over closed crotch underpants and then using the bathroom can tell you! I'm sure there were some women who for a variety of reasons might have still 'gone commando' but by 1856 it was the exception rather than the rule it would have been a hundred years earlier. Karen Seamstrix -- Jacqueline Johnson wrote: I'm unsure where you got this info? Some women did go commando or did binding ( a pain I'm sure) but I think split drawers or regular drawers were the norm. On 6/20/05, Laura Morlock wrote: > If some people believed drawers were inappropriate for women (because they > were bifurcated), what did women wear underneath in 1856? Anything? Or was > the shift the bottom layer and they went commando? > > Thanks, > Laura _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 19:24:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KNOWDx000321 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KNLuKO048032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:23:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KMt2mV082790; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz (cantvc.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KMr9Yo081709 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:53:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPPXWFOI3K95S2MW@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:51:57 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPPXWG1IBO94KTXR@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:51:57 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:53:31 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] farm drawers In-reply-to: <1119300916.42b72d343a56e@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B748EB.1000508@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <1119300916.42b72d343a56e@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Laura Morlock wrote: >If some people believed drawers were inappropriate for women (because they >were bifurcated), what did women wear underneath in 1856? Anything? Or was >the shift the bottom layer and they went commando? > > I believe that drawers were the norm by 1856. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 19:42:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5KNgegZ000368 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5KNfhlO049707 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:41:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KNgngN011873; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:42:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KNglSX011808 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:42:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so934442wra for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=dtF6zr+Zz+f878z/zVvAwx8xA4ZcvS0GdjwEd5feO/E0AMPdQQysMFcVJXtE2XXhF+n1rWLJagsXgmpvxCzt8al93bw9RmHV1Csey4fSW3TkxRhF77TiCDrcBng4AYARXOx18dUR2e3Gz3CnSaa7ylAPO5JzsY8G5fvQ29J+SJg= Received: by 10.54.51.26 with SMTP id y26mr3001442wry; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0506201641147ba638@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:41:33 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-Reply-To: <8C743EF816768B9-670-D21D@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <42B72811.4060706@paradise.net.nz> <8C743EF816768B9-670-D21D@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5KNglSX011808 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My miniskirts were frowned upon in the 1960s, as were my midi skirts in the 70s (go figure!), as were my day-glo painted tennies, my bell bottomed jeans and later, my hip huggers that didn't show a half inch of skin. The rolled jeans, as tidy as they were, and the t-shirt with the cigarette pack in the folded up sleeve were really frowned on in the 1950s. People who wore these styles were either bikers or not WASPish enough for middle America. My dad got into trouble for wearing tight butt corduroy pants with wide legs in school in 1945-46. He was sent home from his public high school in San Francisco for wearing that style with his 2 block school sweater. He had block letters for being captain of both the baseball and football teams and they still sent him home! You don't really need to be too far out of the stream before people start worrying you're a trouble-maker. LynnD On 6/20/05, chindora@aol.com wrote: > SNIP> > (wink) > > So, to move this back towards a more costume related vein, can we maybe list some styles throughout history that were openly reviled by the good folk of the time? I really treasure the snippets of information that are shared here and always enjoy the documentation and links that are shared. > > ~Kimberley > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 20:18:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L0I4xn000496 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:18:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L0Fl0N053695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:15:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L0Gsss031143; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:16:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L0GnTB031086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:16:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-244-240-69-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.240.69]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id j5L0FbBr014696 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:15:39 +1000 Message-ID: <006601c575f6$2c5b1b20$45f0f4dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com><42B72811.4060706@paradise.net.nz><8C743EF816768B9-670-D21D@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <8296995c0506201641147ba638@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:14:16 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > So, to move this back towards a more costume related vein, can we maybe list some styles throughout history that were openly reviled by the good folk of the time? I really treasure the snippets of information that are shared here and always enjoy the documentation and links that are shared. > > > > ~Kimberley I think this happens to a certain extent whenever styles change, the new fashions generally worry the older generation. I think the big one was probably the Regency style gowns as they were such a huge break with the previous styles, so light and flimsy, lacking in undergarments (you could see their _legs_!) And you can always find some moralist who will complain about how impractical/immodest/immoral a new (or old) fashion is. Actually I think there may have been a similar reaction to 1920s fashions with so much skin on display. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 20:57:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L0vCkD000700 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:57:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L0uJBX057652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:56:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L0uF2b001132; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:56:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5KELdf6084395 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:21:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-13656); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:18:38 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:18:36 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050620065743.00dc5750@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:20:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: "Dying in the heat", was Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier In-Reply-To: <1119274844.42b6c75c85e02@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend of mine did a "dress experiment" at Sutter's Fort and found that lined long sleeves were much more comfortable in the heat (Sacramento, CA, often has many days in the summer over 100 F [~39 C]) than unlined long sleeves. Reducing the area of skin that is directly exposed to the sun, I find, reduces the amount of direct body heating that occurs, so that when I move out of the sun into shade while wearing mid-19th century or Elizabethan clothing, I cool off much more quickly than someone in shorts and tee-shirt. Most of my reenactment occurs in the warmer seasons of California, so I'm very good at dealing with the heat. "Dying in the heat" can mean many things. Are the women wearing bonnets while working in the sun to protect their heads? Are they wearing enough petticoats to (2 to 3) in the right fabrics (linen [preferable] or cotton) to give them some "air" around their legs? Are they drinking enough water (not sodas or iced tea, just water) to keep hydrated? Or do they just object to sweating heavily? I've done quite a bit of heavy work in full 1846 outfit here in Sacramento, and, yes, I sweat (no dainty "glow" for me ) a lot, but it's no more than I would in modern clothing. I wear a corset, a corded petticoat over my shift, then two more petticoats, then a chemisette, and the dress with a full pinner apron. It's topped off with a sunbonnet when I am outside. The heaviest and hottest work is in the kitchen, which, while indoors, gets pretty hot (I love to use the old phrase, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."). I just drink lots of water, make certain I eat moderately, and get away from the open hearth to cool down periodically. And accept the fact that I will sweat a lot. Joan At 09:40 AM 6/20/2005 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks, everybody, for all your help! Another question - some of the work >dresses are short sleeved, about the length of a t-shirt. I was surprised by >this - is it correct? I know the women who work there complain of dying in >the heat, and so perhaps the took a short cut to coolness? > >Thanks again, >Laura > > > I belong to the members-only (restricted) PlainandModestDress group at > yahoo, which was begun by a plain-dressing Quaker lady, but is populated >with > plain dressers of many religions and persuasions. Historic Mennonite >garments > have been discussed there several times, but the linen question has not >come up > before. I will be glad to post it and see if anyone knows the answer. > > Also, must agree with Ron Carnegie in his comments on Amish & Mennonite > suppliers. Even though well-made, many of the products are 100% polyester >--as > in, not even blends. Gohn Brothers and Lehmans are both still producing > according to members of the group, as they are often mentioned. However, >Gohn > reportedly stays rather backed up. The other sources mentioned for >footwear and > accessories for living history would more than likely be your better > resources for authentic, historically-made attire. The mindset of modern > plain-dressing groups is not geared toward history --it interests them as >a part of > their continual search for simplicity, and some of them who find modern > undergarments abhorrently uncomfortable are even exploring wearing things >like > sensible stays --but historical accuracy is not their main interest. > > If anyone is interested in learning more about Mennonite & Amish and other > plain-dressing groups, you could start by searching thru these 2 online >lists > of links here: > > _http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker/plain/_ > (http://www.nonviolence.org/quaker/plain/) (http://www.nonviolence.org/) > > _http://stanosheck.com/Modesty.html_ (http://stanosheck.com/Modesty.html) > > Hope this helps, > > Best regards, > Susannah > >-- >How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to >improve the world. >-Anne Frank >www.thehungersite.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:00:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L10XeC000735 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:00:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L0xA6x057932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:59:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L0xFpJ002837; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:59:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30103.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30103.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5KF40v2015877 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 33478 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jun 2005 15:02:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=we0cHO1PoIjqUSWV4IcGZZIWHBX0mSqXHatcGkqQ/+E+vwV7IRqO1RN73oUd67SevuK4QS+C6LAFcgI7gvbpAGcgnkP1NivlDEJrUX9cCnsqku6ZqxdnMbtiPzgY947e03AX5k0mH46PW4E6afF7HqYAzkKj/LiyjTgMdt6lG8k= ; Message-ID: <20050620150249.33475.qmail@web30103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30103.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:02:49 PDT Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:02:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506181800.j5II0F1w058465@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: circular kneedles and stockings and ranting on repro shoes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 000 (yes 000) needles You can get them mail order, or through the web through a store that is near Charlotte, NC jklneedles.com They have a bricks and mortar store in Concord NC that's is open on saturday, and a mailorder/internet store that takes a bit of time for stuff to get to you, but I like to support what I think of as "local Worthy stores" They have what seems to me to be every needle in current production. Other stores must have them too, I t might be less of a problem when I get down the the ankle, but it will be awhile. I now have about 1" of stocking knitted. I'm not even to the knee area yet. Note to self: Have to find somewhere to put pictures, the sharing of pictures from Bjarne and everyone else have helped me immensely... and the input and sharing have really helped me refine my scholarship. Sometime knowing what question to ask is as important as knowing where to ask it Stockings and foot wear are always a challenge for me, both historic and modern I'm diabetic (must foot wounds) very tender footed, and have a bunion. Oh and very large calves, even when I wasn't as large as I am now. I try to avoid seams (I've always turned my socks inside out, the seam on the outside doesn't rub so much.) I HAVE to wear stocking or I get blisters, and that bunion!!!, try to find repro or passable repro shoes in wide. Custom made take forever and cost a mint, and I never seem to see used repro shoes. Weel, Enough whining for a Monday --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:03:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L13hQO000762 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:03:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L12qFB058316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:02:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1301N005274; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5KHPTma028856 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:25:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 53533 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Jun 2005 17:24:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=abbEREDyewiyZPCSRg1s7SSLIOsCAAflnyt5n0cSOCqhajgo7J5agwNo2ir1lDf4hOl+kuGW9h4pHoHONoSD97XDGnTMAR+sXHq1oAr8gtz4cwuN/KE7h8deAt1QJv8eN2Ve+HSLRDTsvA5uSpNh7EE1Wj1J2yZnDOGN5uuUwys= ; Message-ID: <20050620172418.53531.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.139.69] by web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:24:18 BST Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:24:18 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-xmailer-Metrics: net.indra.com 1192; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Singer manual for a Model 367? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm - I have the same kind of problem as that mentioned by "Dawn" dawn@reddawn.net. Several helpful Listers have referred me to Websites where they intimated that I ought to be able to download a manual for our recently-acquired Singer Model 367 - only to find that those particular websites don't list the Model 367 at all.. There cannot be any doubt about the Singer Model number - it is actually cast as part of the plastic casing in raised lettering. [Might this be a case of a product Model being re-numbered to be sold in another Country? I have come-across this with a couple of the Nikon cameras I have owned - which had different Numbers for the same model depending on whether they were intended for the European Market or the N. American one.] Anyway, that's by-the-by. The Singer 367 machine was donated to our Group as a "loaner sewing machine" for those new Companions who wanted to make their own garb but didn't have access to any other sewing machine - so we'd like the Singer 367 to go out on loan to our "needy" Companions with a copy of the original manual for guidance. If any Listers can help our group by downloading a copy of the Singer 367 Manual to us, our Wardrobe Mistress will very much appreciate it*. [ * I know this is "begging", and I hate to inpose on Listers' often-demonstrated willingness to help others less fortunate; - but - if our Group had any form of financial sponsorship, we'd buy a copy of the relevant Manual - however, we fund the operations of our Companjie out of our own private pockets - and most of us are either at school so not wage-earning; retired; or what you Americans call" blue-collar" workers. There just ain't no more spare cash in the Companie Treasury at the moment, after having this Singer Model and a similarly-donated Singer 15K serviced and overhauled as "loaner-machines".] Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:04:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L14BEi000769 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:04:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L13LgR058458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L13SRw005593; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KIkBVB093980 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:46:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.60.57ed3c7f (15888) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:39:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M15 (mblk-m15.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.48]) by air-id08.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID83-3e1042b70d7822e; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:39:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:39:52 -0400 Message-Id: <8C743DE94F49A6B-670-C5D0@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <53425.12.34.13.209.1119290340.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Received: from 68.153.231.89 by MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.48) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:39:52 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <53425.12.34.13.209.1119290340.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.48 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Well, I guess I should have been more specific. I can understand the whole teen thing, I have 5 kids, and each has had their own "thing", however, I am not just seeing this style on teens, but even on toddlers, as young as two and three. It just makes me shake my head to see these little munchkins running around trying to hold their pants up while they go about the regular business of being a kid. I know that it must seem as though we are picking on one particular style, or group of people who have adopted this, but for me it is an interesting discussion because I also think back to other fashions from bygone eras and think of the fashion practices of those times that were also soundly belittled and scorned by the "majority". I can think of several, off the top, not only clothing but cosmetic and such as well. :) ~Kimberley -----Original Message----- From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: Historical Costume Sent: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:59:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Kimberly said, > I do not understand why any level of > society would condone and encourage this type of behavior and style of > dress, and find it peculiar that such is permitted with men. Women would > never be allowed to dress like that. Who is allowing what? I don't see any men in my office dressed that way, not even in the support staff. Any of them might do so after work or on the weekend. Remember Ebonics? It was the idea of accepting some things as part of thier own culture. Teen/young adult fashion has frequently been unappreciated by the older generation. It may affect their chances of being hired, depending on their desired career. Not everyone can be a rock star. :-) My nephew, who is in his early 20s, started shaving his head, and his parents told him he might have difficulty in the job market for that. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:04:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L14LQF000773 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:04:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L13Y1P058505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L13gU8005734; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KJltdt043420 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:47:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from msberard@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 58so953652wri for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uI/udyEkdQc5FXmAvNjtLGaJJxPINSOXEMkGHlFpENZx5lvpyzXrOXU8YTUKuGeojBsxRnubj/gAmFaVthn4GeGBL0n+RAWCWAclxiA2uXicbPpGU3B/rbDoCa7LrDN38eDmCKS9zHEHwR0BB4mYgi2f/4BQ9AYtjdAso6dx3go= Received: by 10.54.39.1 with SMTP id m1mr2705781wrm; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.21.73 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:46:43 -0500 From: Onaree Berard To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5KJltdt043420 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: singer machine manuals X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Where is the most likely place to find the serial #, I'd love all that info about my machine. Onaree On 6/20/05, lisa wrote: > > A woman has contacted me about finding a manual for a Singer machine she > > bought. She claims she cannot find the model number listed anywhere, and > > thus is unable to find the right manual for it. > > Below is something I saved from another list I'm on. It's from a couple > of years ago and I've never called myself so I don't know if it's a > current service. > > ----------------- > Regarding old Singer machines: call 1-800-4-SINGER, and have the serial > numbers ready. They'll tell you the exact date and place of yur machine's > birth, and have photocopies of the user's manual that they can send you > for free. Even if you "know everythin" about the workings of your > machine, it's still a neat thing to know. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > -- Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:04:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L14JZn000772 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:04:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L13dbs058527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L13mPG005778; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKSR9f073472 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:28:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9615DC1D for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620132534.032f8200@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:27:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curved needles In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617124124.0311e798@64.87.54.245> <8296995c05061715453fc3755f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 06:34 AM 6/19/2005, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me, is there any type of curved needle you can buy that >isn't a complete semicircle? They drive me nuts, the way you can't get >the point into the fabric without the other end being on the fabric, which >makes them so unwieldy. I always think a third of a circle would be so >much easier to handle - do they exist? > >Jean Hi Jean, I went google-dredging yesterday, and could not find a one that wasn't a semi-circle. Not from upholstery companies, quilt shops, leather suppliers, or any other hit on google. Sorry. I would like to find such a thing as well for similar reasons. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:04:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L14VQp000779 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:04:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L13nZJ058566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L13wIH005891; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:03:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KKZFfo078843 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:35:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPPT3HV8SW95S2MW@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:34:05 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] (itascad45a.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.5.228]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPPT3I5TAC94KZSZ@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:34:05 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:35:39 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: belly styles, modern fashion, etc. In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B7289B.3080604@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >I'm glad I'm not a teenager. > > Amen! -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:05:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L15pA5000784 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:05:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L155nU058748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:05:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L15Dtm006632; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:05:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KLnV2W033782 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:49:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5KLmEG2017363 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:48:16 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5KLm7SA299686 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:48:13 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050620141418.0345ddb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:15:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-Reply-To: <42B6E937.9020706@thibault.org> References: <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I do not understand why >>any level of society would condone and encourage this type of >>behavior and style of dress, > >Because the subgroups that encourage it see themselves as rebels against >those of us who do not. Yeah. They do it to upset us staid older folks. And, as witness the response to this thread, they're doing a pretty good job of it. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:06:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L15xsg000787 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:06:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L15BOP058814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:05:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L15Kxm006780; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:05:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5KMrjDE081966 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:54:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so114901nzp for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:52:30 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=EaMwlUzRVVqEvtLWIrdLTPNqH+JgkxCOv9+Ya8JcAkQRmQ1AhUpNt+/YwJD/z5OLsp3yhj59NAsXkvp4ioth2M84JDYglvd1QbUt/6zwkb3Be8rJ5aNu0uknDfBQox0QvkpMiLd38qBsQvUE7IJzNA08VxugEf10gpSXDTIjnv8= Received: by 10.36.84.5 with SMTP id h5mr2986494nzb; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc805062015522b59ed6f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:52:30 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] farm drawers In-Reply-To: <20050620.144510.157.165044@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050620.144510.157.165044@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5KMrjDE081966 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Not just the corset but trying to go potty in a hoop and pulling down a pair of drawers is a nightmare. But yes pantlets seem to be a Regency-post regenct thing. Pre regency commando seems to be the rule. I've read about older women especially (not to be disgusting here) who were leftovers of the French Revolution era of the era who had worn panniers who wore nothing under there and peed where they stood. On 6/20/05, penhalion@juno.com wrote: > > It's my understanding that bifurcated undergarments for women first became accepted during the Regency when 'pantalettes' were frequently worn for modesty/warm beneath light cotton frocks. During the Victorian era, they became more standard wear as 'cleanliness' and 'modesty' became associated with wearing bifurcated undergarments. These were still fully open at the crotch for ease in using the bathroom. This is essential as anyone who has tried wearing a corset over closed crotch underpants and then using the bathroom can tell you! I'm sure there were some women who for a variety of reasons might have still 'gone commando' but by 1856 it was the exception rather than the rule it would have been a hundred years earlier. > > > Karen > Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:15:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L1FTrx000824 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:15:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L1EiPO059694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1Eq6N011999; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:14:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1Enqn011949 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:14:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCDE015CA3 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:14:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] singer machine manuals Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:14:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcV1uMDb8iVVG4D6QSKxD/LpyUd4DQARa2nA Message-Id: <20050621011439.BCDE015CA3@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO She could post here if she wanted- I know there are several of us who are on the antique singer lists who are also on this list. Give me the serial number and I can give you the year- and Singer does not know all and is frequently wrong with the model they tell you, although the year is often correct. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:53 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] singer machine manuals A woman has contacted me about finding a manual for a Singer machine she bought. She claims she cannot find the model number listed anywhere, and thus is unable to find the right manual for it. Can someone point me to a sewing machine list where she might post a picture and get help identifying her machine? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:17:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L1HJLo000830 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:17:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L1GgSw059919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:16:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1GpdJ013059; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:16:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1GlZ3013027 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:16:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from khanson@kc.rr.com) Received: from karen (CPE-65-26-139-41.kc.res.rr.com [65.26.139.41]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j5L1GZZ7016483 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:16:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "khanson" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:03:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050620141418.0345ddb0@mail.frys.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Doesn't upset me, it just gives me a good laugh at how silly they look. Then again, I don't consider myself to be staid. :) Talia >Yeah. They do it to upset us staid older folks. And, as witness the >response to this thread, they're doing a pretty good job of it. > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:19:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L1JEhx000843 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:19:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L1IYdG060090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:18:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1Ihq3013888; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:18:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1IcIX013820 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:18:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5L1DtlR017784 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:13:55 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:13:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B76AE3.7080009@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:18:27 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing References: <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050620141418.0345ddb0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050620141418.0345ddb0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> Because the subgroups that encourage it see themselves as rebels >> against those of us who do not. > > > Yeah. They do it to upset us staid older folks. Or the White Folks. Or the Rich Folks. Or Whomever-isn't-them-Folks. Age is only part of it. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 21:50:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L1onCb000965 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:50:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L1o3DW063091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1oB6a029392; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:50:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L1o8JZ029363 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:50:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C5515C98 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:49:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: singer machine manuals Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:50:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcV1/RF1TNRHOd67SKikgMES/V3GJgABkW2g Message-Id: <20050621014955.48C5515C98@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The serial number is on a plate in front of the pillar on the right side of the machine on all the older black cast iron machines. If you have a machine that is not black with decals, it may be in another place. Do you know what model you have? I know mostly about models 221 and lower numbered. -Megan -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Onaree Berard Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 3:47 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Re: singer machine manuals Where is the most likely place to find the serial #, I'd love all that info about my machine. Onaree _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 22:04:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L24bMO000991 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:04:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L23RfG064208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:03:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L23YeG035657; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:03:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L23Ucs035549 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.da.27bab779 (26116) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:03:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:03:11 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] farm drawers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO quite a few interesting period letters, commentary, & journal entries in _Corsets & Crinolines_ (Norah Waugh) regarding early to mid 19c drawers & the wearing, or lack thereof. best, susannah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 22:08:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L28WQr001001 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:08:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L27opK064493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L27xtt037956; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:07:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L27tnP037865 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Susannah9810@aol.com) Received: from Susannah9810@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.db.28831f85 (26116) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:07:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Susannah9810@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:07:37 EDT Subject: Re: "Dying in the heat", was Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5012 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO thank you for writing this, joan, it was so adequately put that i will leave off saying anything other than, "yep, me too." susannah, who also performed an 18-month long living history "experiential archaeology" experiment in authentic 1790 - 1840 clothing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 22:50:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L2oeob001175 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:50:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L2nsAD067565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:49:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L2o12D059515; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:50:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L2nvn5059451 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5L2nkG2020646 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:49:46 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5L2ndSE031244 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:49:46 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050620194906.033b69c0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:49:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: "Dying in the heat", was Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20050620065743.00dc5750@pop.surewest.net> References: <1119274844.42b6c75c85e02@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >here in Sacramento, and, yes, I sweat (no dainty "glow" for me ) a lot, I tend to "glow" buckets. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 22:50:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L2orTg001179 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:50:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L2nsdu067564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:49:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L2o1Nj059516; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:50:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L2nvvp059445 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5L2njG2020636 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:49:45 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5L2ndSC031244 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:49:46 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050620194229.02652088@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:46:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-Reply-To: <006601c575f6$2c5b1b20$45f0f4dc@e9q5h8> References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <42B72811.4060706@paradise.net.nz> <8C743EF816768B9-670-D21D@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <8296995c0506201641147ba638@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I think this happens to a certain extent whenever styles change, the new >fashions generally worry the older generation. I think the big one was >probably the Regency style gowns as they were such a huge break with the >previous styles, so light and flimsy, lacking in undergarments (you could >see their _legs_!) And you can always find some moralist who will complain >about how impractical/immodest/immoral a new (or old) fashion is. Actually I >think there may have been a similar reaction to 1920s fashions with so much >skin on display. So much skin and no corset! I almost got sent home for wearing a "granny" dress, when I was in High School. They said the red calico thing looked too much like a nightgown. They didn't complain when I hemmed the same dress up to knee length and wore it. And no less than the Girls' Vice Principal told me that my knee-high boots were worrying her because only "that kind of girl" wore them - even tho mine were lime green suede. Then there's my aunt who complained that I wore colors that were too drab (browns and greys). I made a Hawaiian print dress in red and yellow, and suddenly my colors were too bright for her. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 22:55:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L2tNdv001196 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:55:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L2sgeB067878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L2sqbb061851; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:54:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc13.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L2smoN061775 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (unknown[204.127.197.127](misconfigured sender)) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005062102543301500svk1re>; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 02:54:33 +0000 Received: from [67.168.11.108] by 204.127.197.111; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 02:54:30 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: "Dying in the heat", was Re: [h-cost] 1856 farm clothing supplier Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 02:54:30 +0000 Message-Id: <062120050254.25372.42B78166000BF8DF0000631C22058891160809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO LOL!!! What a catchy phrase..."I'm not sweating! I'm a glow bucket!" LOL!!! -- Slan go foill Elena ÓTighearnaigh Átha An Ri Emer's Needle Wares -------------- Original message -------------- > > >here in Sacramento, and, yes, I sweat (no dainty "glow" for me ) a lot, > > I tend to "glow" buckets. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 23:09:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L3992r001240 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:09:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L38DwT069026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:08:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L38KcZ068490; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L38GTG068418 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.128.5f3546a5 (3850) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:07:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <128.5f3546a5.2fe8de8b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:07:55 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/20/2005 6:18:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cvirtue+dated+1134868435.b9977f@thibault.org writes: Or the White Folks. Or the Rich Folks. Or Whomever-isn't-them-Folks. Age is only part of it. Like I said earlier, my beef is not that I am not the same colour (I have seen people of all colours dressing this way), nor that I ain't one of them, because I do consider myself part of the human race. I don't think it is that my age is different, or that I am an uptight, staid matron. I just do not want to look at a complete stranger's underwear, whether a thong sticking up at the back of a pair of jeans, or a guys drawers and half of his butt sticking out of the back of his pants. I fail to see what fashion statement it is making, when as we have seen here there are so many different theories as to why it even developed and is perpetuated today. I realize that we all have different opinions and outlooks on this, and so I guess that the only way to deal with it is to look the other way, but personally I find it just gross that a guy has to walk around grabbing at the groin area of his pants just to keep them from dropping to his knees. I pointed out in an earlier post that my teenage daughter (I have three daughters, two sons) is now wearing these shirts that look like multiple shirts layered one over the other. To me, that is an example of "faking it", and I can tie that to historical fashion statements like the fake sleeves and fake puffs particularly of the Tudor/Elizabethan/Renaissance in general. We have discussed some recent huffs that people got in over clothes, but what are some older, more historic examples that we can tie in with this? I have heard rumours that the sideless surcoat (If that is even the correct name for it, sorry not my period) was considered shameless and was given the nickname "The Gates of Hell." I don't know if it is true or not, but would be interested in hearing more about this, and other items of clothing that really raised the ire of the Church and more of the (ahem) respectable citizens of the different eras that we try to learn more about. ~Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 23:20:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L3KYJQ001315 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:20:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L3JlWf069978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L3JumW074413; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L3JqKh074352 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:19:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04870 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:38:16 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:38:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-Reply-To: <128.5f3546a5.2fe8de8b@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 Chindora@aol.com wrote: > I have heard rumours that the sideless surcoat (If that is even the > correct name for it, sorry not my period) was considered shameless and > was given the nickname "The Gates of Hell." I don't know if it is > true or not, but would be interested in hearing more about this, and > other items of clothing that really raised the ire of the Church and > more of the (ahem) respectable citizens of the different eras that we > try to learn more about. There are plenty examples of such types of clothing, but the oft-mentioned sideless surcote is probably not the best one to point to. I have heard that "gates of Hell" (or "devil's windows") quote all over the place and not yet seen a primary reference for it. And though costume books also commonly repeat that it was considered shamelessly revealing, I haven't seen anything in the literature to support that either; in fact, in its deepest-cut versions, it was exclusively the dress of queens and royal family, and clearly not seen as suggestive of anything but high rank. It does appear in one well-known image of two courtesans as imagined by St. Jerome in a hallucination (in the Tres Riches Heures), but the other courtesan is wearing a different upper-class dress, so the surcote is more likely meant to suggest "high fashion" or "luxury" and not anything specific about the surcote itself as courtesan-wear. Someday I will probably have to do a paper rehabilitating the surcote's reputation, poor thing... --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 20 23:42:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L3gQxL001379 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:42:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L3eTSw071645 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L3ecVJ084919; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L3eY2L084834 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.137.229]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050621034018.FPUW11606.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:40:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c57613$33ef3ca0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com><42B6E937.9020706@thibault.org> <42B6F5E4.4040104@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:42:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In my neighborhood there are more than a few young men who dress this > way. The wide pants are only one of the status symbols they use in their > social group. Shoes are another. Not too long ago I overheard a very > enthusiast conversation regarding brand name shoes endorsed by a popular > athlete. The boys were bragging to each other about how many pairs of > unworn shoes they had, and who was going to be the first to get the > latest style this spring. > > The pants are an attention getter and a status symbol. "Look at me, I > can afford to buy clothing that serves no purpose other than to let you > know I can waste money on this." > > Some people do it with jewelry or expensive cars. For these kids, it's > clothing. > > > > Dawn Besides, the same attention grabbing has been seen throughout the ages. Extra large sleeves, slash and puff, wigs, beauty marks, velvet, hoops, baggy pants, its all bad new to someone. (and thank goodness, or much of our documentation in the form of sumptuary laws and Church documents would not exist) Sheridan :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 00:04:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L44RpH001475 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:04:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L43iBq073813 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:03:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L43il6096826; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:03:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L42r8K096261 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:03:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5L42rNs010275 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:02:53 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.109.108.118] Received: from thelema.frys.com (ppp-69-109-108-118.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.109.108.118]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.10 milter /8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5L42VXR374378 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:02:41 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050620210129.032689b8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:02:24 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-Reply-To: <128.5f3546a5.2fe8de8b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I don't know if it is true or not, but would be interested in >hearing more about this, and other items of clothing that really raised the >ire of the Church and more of the (ahem) respectable citizens of the >different eras that we try to learn more about. Incroyables, late 1700s - deliberate outrageousness. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 00:23:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L4N0Sm001598 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L4M9P7075303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:22:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L4MGcI005707; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:22:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L4MDHb005685 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:22:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-214.cvip.net [129.8.205.214]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D159E5CF6B for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620205544.03304388@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:59:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-Reply-To: <128.5f3546a5.2fe8de8b@aol.com> References: <128.5f3546a5.2fe8de8b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:07 PM 6/20/2005, you wrote: >and other items of clothing that really raised the >ire of the Church and more of the (ahem) respectable citizens of the >different eras that we try to learn more about. > >~Kimberley Well, in Scotland, the Kirk preachers would chastise the women for wearing their arasads (arasaids) in kirk/church. Apparently, the women were using the arasads to fall asleep under. This was sometime in the 17th c., IIRC, although I would have to relook up where this was written, it's been a number of years. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 01:40:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L5e8qN001941 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:40:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L5dIlK080592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:39:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L5dQLL040254; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:39:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.fuse.net (mail-out1.fuse.net [216.68.8.174]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L5dMSQ040187 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:39:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jemarshall@fuse.net) Received: from gx5.fuse.net ([69.61.185.253]) by smtp1.fuse.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with ESMTP id <20050621053901.RIAW4201.smtp1.fuse.net@gx5.fuse.net> for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:39:01 -0400 Received: from netzero.fuse.net ([69.61.185.253]) by gx5.fuse.net (InterMail vG.1.02.00.02 201-2136-104-102-20041210) with ESMTP id <20050621053858.POPV6448.gx5.fuse.net@netzero.fuse.net> for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:38:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050621011110.00b13500@pop.fuse.net> X-Sender: jemarshall@pop.fuse.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:12:16 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: "J.E. Marshall" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curved needles In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620132534.032f8200@64.87.54.245> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617124124.0311e798@64.87.54.245> <8296995c05061715453fc3755f@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-48CA5D6D X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could try surgical supply places. There are semi-circular and then there are "J" needles. They look like a capital J. Jennifer At 01:27 PM 6/20/05 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:34 AM 6/19/2005, you wrote: >>Can anyone tell me, is there any type of curved needle you can buy that >>isn't a complete semicircle? They drive me nuts, the way you can't get >>the point into the fabric without the other end being on the fabric, >>which makes them so unwieldy. I always think a third of a circle would >>be so much easier to handle - do they exist? >> >>Jean > > >Hi Jean, > >I went google-dredging yesterday, and could not find a one that wasn't a >semi-circle. Not from upholstery companies, quilt shops, leather >suppliers, or any other hit on google. Sorry. I would like to find such a >thing as well for similar reasons. > >Kimiko > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.9/23 - Release Date: 6/20/05 what would you attempt to do if you knew you could not fail? Anon. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.9/23 - Release Date: 6/20/05 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 03:33:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5L7Xb1Q029776 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 03:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5L7WgrB087972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:32:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5L7Wpwc088035; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:32:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.52]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5L7Wlqv087978 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:32:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 15654 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jun 2005 07:32:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=am/oFfenOjft8BzvlKOUP7kWipru4j1f2SjvFV30FseO/5Y2N5hDNJ0eDfLJI0cD193U5FgnQabutWS+M4T0Gah3TohCZcBKxL+PTA2KqoOSI8qjA5LEPb3Axkui1NI5KFgY0uPSmrpfbA61uP+udAondDehENdcgCEPTwvyRRI= ; Message-ID: <20050621073229.15652.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.14] by web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:32:29 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:32:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620122029.032f8c40@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/948/Mon Jun 20 23:52:23 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/948/Mon Jun 20 23:52:23 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ** Have you tried looking in a tack and western wear shop for those Boy's suspenders? Or a dance supplies store. had the same problem with my son, long skinny legs,tiny waist= suspenders Melody --- Kimiko Small wrote: > At 07:02 AM 6/20/2005, you wrote: > > > As the mom of a toddler I have to say that such > pants hang low sometimes > because the toddler is between sizes. > > >And I have yet to find suspenders for the > few pants that aren't fitting right yet. > > And believe me, I hate the droopy drawers thing as > much as most of you do. > > Kimiko > PS > Obligatory costume content: My son's Tudor overgown > fit him from age 9 > months to 2.5 years, with just a letdown of the hem. > > __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 09:31:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LDVBcw004421 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LDTwGN033048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:29:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LDU62g048720; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:30:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LDU30M048687 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:30:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.102]) by pop-sarus.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Dkip0-0003rL-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:29:46 -0400 Message-ID: <42B8164A.6080109@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 06:29:46 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Curved needles References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050616200525.02f6b568@64.87.54.245> <20050617043607.10350.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050616230338.028bd3e0@64.87.54.245> <8296995c050617122919c2f0fd@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050617124124.0311e798@64.87.54.245> <8296995c05061715453fc3755f@mail.gmail.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20050621011110.00b13500@pop.fuse.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20050621011110.00b13500@pop.fuse.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/948/Mon Jun 20 23:52:23 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/948/Mon Jun 20 23:52:23 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, definitely try a surgical supply. I got my stash from a veterinary friend. Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 10:24:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LEOR3n004828 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LENgAM037972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:23:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LENuw2082742; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:23:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LENqfn082699 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:23:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=LXp6hBoztx0e4gyXE/tQ5wn2d9gAR57uf3la5372fw9mAEL/U1ojKzgmQdQFK6JI; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Dkjf6-0005G8-6H for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:23:36 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621100817.020b0798@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:23:34 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning In-Reply-To: <20050620150249.33475.qmail@web30103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200506181800.j5II0F1w058465@net.indra.com> <20050620150249.33475.qmail@web30103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22c313d6b704263dd74aefbcee37fcb4728350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/948/Mon Jun 20 23:52:23 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/948/Mon Jun 20 23:52:23 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Online photo albums (WAS: Re: circular kneedles...) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:02 AM 6/20/2005, you wrote: >Note to self: Have to find somewhere to put pictures, the sharing of >pictures from Bjarne and everyone else have helped me immensely... and the >input and sharing have really helped me refine my scholarship. Sometime >knowing what question to ask is as important as knowing where to ask it I use http://www.flickr.com . There are lots of other free places too, where you can create online "photo albums" -- I believe I've yeard "Yahoo photos" mentioned, for instance. If you search online for "free photo album" sites I expect you'll find several. Flickr makes it easy to refer people to individual photos, which is why I like it -- I use it as a place to "park" the photos I use in my Paternosters blog. (The folks at Flickr also have an amusing sense of humor!) Some of the others I think do a better job of creating an on-screen "album" where visitors can see a lot of your photos in thumbnail size and click on the ones they want to see close up. Recommendations, anyone? Here's an example of a photo reference from Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33802198@N00/19621462/ (This is discussed in http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2005/06/skully-bits.html if you want to know what it is, BTW.) (ObCostume: it's an accessory!! ) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 11:14:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LFECfg005138 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LFDMd7043091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:13:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LFBERH016497; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:11:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f20.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LFBBjB016380 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:11:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:10:49 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.205 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:10:49 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.205] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:10:49 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jun 2005 15:10:49.0654 (UTC) FILETIME=[68812D60:01C57673] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'd be content (delighted really) if both sexes went back to the way chinos >used to fit the guys back in '64--snug in the butt, straight down from >there. Now, THAT was sexy. Ehehe... I think you hit the nail on the... butt. Every time I see a guy with baggy pants I think "My, this is so unflattering! Looks like he has no behind!" What, they haven't learned yet that it's not just men who look at the other sex's body? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 12:07:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LG7sUm005554 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:07:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LG6nAd050100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LG721j062460; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:07:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay108-f24.bay108.hotmail.com [65.54.162.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LG6unq062312 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:06:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from victoria_arrington@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.162.200 by by108fd.bay108.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:06:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.162.200] X-Originating-Email: [victoria_arrington@hotmail.com] X-Sender: victoria_arrington@hotmail.com From: "VA A" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:06:34 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jun 2005 16:06:34.0862 (UTC) FILETIME=[326768E0:01C5767B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the droopy pants thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Remember Ebonics? It was the idea of accepting some things as part >of thier own culture. ??? I'm sorry, you've lost me. Could you explain this further? >My nephew, who is in his early 20s, started shaving his head, and his >parents told him he might have difficulty in the job market for that. Perhaps. Men in my family can go bald around the age of 16, so for about a century they have been shaving their head in response. One relative is a lawyer is a very conservative and prestigous international firm, and they hired him sans hair. Of course, he looks the gentleman, wearing suits, etc. But his lack of hair has hardly closed any doors. This is not the first firm of this sort he has been employed at, and I doubt that it will be the last. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 12:15:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LGFRLd005623 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:15:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LGEKF0051095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:14:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LGEW34068668; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:14:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LGERMj068556 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:14:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=pC6KF6SOI5MQMt9mP2qapRC30EkK+4iPX5RM3Zc4AgNR5BW3znNmEJ30GtsDP5DV; h=Received:Message-Id:X-Mailer:Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.34.95.206] (helo=MDSSUE.igc.org) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DklO5-0003o3-3D for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:14:09 -0400 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621103106.0208ddc0@pop.igc.org> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:14:07 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning In-Reply-To: <20050621073229.15652.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620122029.032f8c40@64.87.54.245> <20050621073229.15652.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22cbcdfe488f78b3513d919508de357778d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.34.95.206 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If this is to be believed, the concept of "hoodlums" (with hoods!) is not a new one : http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1500808,00.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Chris Laning + Davis, California 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 13:36:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LHarfj006330 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:36:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LHZlZ7060933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:35:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LHZvmb035932; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:35:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:ENDFfmv8VLPcn06QDUVwdZbHdAJ2wwfp@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LHZrJ9035865 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:35:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j5LHZYnG023868 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:35:34 -0400 Received: from dci012034013114.discovery.com ([12.34.13.114]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57101.12.34.13.114.1119375334.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the droopy pants thing From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Remember Ebonics? It was the idea of accepting some things as part >>of thier own culture. > > ??? > > I'm sorry, you've lost me. Could you explain this further? Ebonics was the study of language in America, specifically of African American who were lower economic level. I'm not sure if it was considered a dialect - I'm not up on linguistics. There are plenty of resources on the web (including "translators" for humor). My point in mentioning it is that a lot of study has been done on something that is "imporper" English. It's become something with its own rules. Back to clothing, as many people have said on the list it's also improper, and yet being studied and discussed. > Perhaps. Men in my family can go bald around the age of 16, so for about a > century they have been shaving their head in response. One relative is a > lawyer is a very conservative and prestigous international firm, and they > hired him sans hair. Thought so - with my nephew it's a case of the older generation claiming that anything fashionable will hinder him. Even if the fashion is not something unattractive, restrictive, or weird in some way. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 14:45:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LIjfZC006843 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:45:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LIiPMA068801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:44:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LIidMM090417; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LESTWw085907 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:28:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FF783C85D for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:28:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42B82418.3000809@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:28:40 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] singer machine manuals References: <42B6F466.5000403@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/948/Mon Jun 20 23:52:23 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO lisa wrote: > Regarding old Singer machines: call 1-800-4-SINGER, Thanks everyone. I was able to help her figure out what model she had (It was discontinued so she was having real trouble confirming its existance) and get her in touch with Singer. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 14:50:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LIoRMf006907 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:50:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LIng6G069467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LInx76094630; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca [129.97.50.127]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LIQJra076696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:26:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: from ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (localhost.uwaterloo.ca [127.0.0.1]) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5LIQ32o008214 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:26:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) Received: (from www@localhost) by ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id j5LIQ3LQ008213 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:26:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca) X-Authentication-Warning: ecserv7.uwaterloo.ca: www set sender to lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca using -f Received: from 65.93.214.127 ( [65.93.214.127]) as user lbmorloc@artsmail.uwaterloo.ca by www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:26:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1119378363.42b85bbb8ed03@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:26:03 -0400 From: Laura Morlock To: Historical Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.1 / FreeBSD-4.6.2 X-Originating-IP: 65.93.214.127 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sunday best X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Everyone, You keep me sane. Thanks for all your help with the resources on farm dress - it's been very helpful. But there are two things I'm becoming desperate for. 1 - I can't find a farm/work corset. Any corset I find from the 1850s is for fashion or light work. And those were all well beyond my budget! 2 - I have spent countless hours searching libraries and the internet for an example of what to wear for Sunday dress. Here are my questions: a) what did farm women wear? This museum is recreating a successful Mennonite farm family. They tended to wear the modern styles, just a few years behid the curb and a little more simply cut with fewer embellishments b) would they have worn the dress the wore to church that morning for the rest of the day? Please help!! Thanks, Laura -- How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. -Anne Frank www.thehungersite.com ---------------------------------------- This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 14:51:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LIpj6s006915 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:51:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LIo2gR069519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:50:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LIoKNt094973; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:50:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LIaUUZ084297 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:36:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1c9.2b0b1fb0 (3858) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:36:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1c9.2b0b1fb0.2fe9b812@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:36:02 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone on the list know of a source for flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric? I haven't had any luck at either JoAnn or Hancock, and I know both used to carry it in some basic solid colors. I refuse to use regular cotton flannel, and I'm not thrilled with the ready-made sleepwear out there--it is all printed with licensed characters! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 15:13:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LJDfWM007233 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:13:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LJCx5q071835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:12:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LJCwrO020701; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:12:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LJCHoh020066 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:12:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so1390395wra for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:11:41 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=EESQ7VYGv+9FoaXzqGWYQLgtbTjkFPi7aKLuwWoB0Uf5BDbsUyBByPtK71DZ4o1jY/wLfkS66puLeK2kOrPHeNDMlNtQFOEM6jQ8PMO2jxcQnV8bVYv4nd6DSqrhAXty/5JT50As8ecF8WDku/v+ceOK7RBQ+DqmaMW6A0kfFA8= Received: by 10.54.141.13 with SMTP id o13mr1824882wrd; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c0506211211375f2aaa@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:11:14 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sunday best In-Reply-To: <1119378363.42b85bbb8ed03@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <1119378363.42b85bbb8ed03@www.nexusmail.uwaterloo.ca> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5LJCHoh020066 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have a historic answer. But I have always believed that people remain the same throughout history. I know that I wore my best clothes to church and then took them off once I got home to do other things. My mother did and my grandmother did. I realize that's a small sampling of people, but I think that would be true almost at any time in history - unless you're hosting someone for Sunday dinner. Even my highly religious great-aunts, who cooked an dcleaned up a storm on Saturdays and never lit the stove on Sundays would change their clothes after church. I don't remember what religion they were, sorry; I just know they weren't part of our church. LynnD On 6/21/05, Laura Morlock wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > You keep me sane. Thanks for all your help with the resources on farm dress > - it's been very helpful. But there are two things I'm becoming desperate > for. > > 1 - I can't find a farm/work corset. Any corset I find from the 1850s is for > fashion or light work. And those were all well beyond my budget! > > 2 - I have spent countless hours searching libraries and the internet for an > example of what to wear for Sunday dress. Here are my questions: a) what did > farm women wear? This museum is recreating a successful Mennonite farm > family. They tended to wear the modern styles, just a few years behid the > curb and a little more simply cut with fewer embellishments b) would they > have worn the dress the wore to church that morning for the rest of the day? > > Please help!! Thanks, > Laura > > -- > How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to > improve the world. > -Anne Frank > www.thehungersite.com > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > This mail sent through www.mywaterloo.ca > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 15:19:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LJJjrF007344 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:19:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LJIk8L072442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:18:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LJJ1wH029063; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:19:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LJIsJp028139 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:18:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5LJDxlR026130 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:14:00 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B86808.9040501@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:18:32 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric References: <1c9.2b0b1fb0.2fe9b812@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c9.2b0b1fb0.2fe9b812@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > I refuse to use regular cotton flannel Why? That might help folks steer you to sources for what you want. (My own choices have been based on the theory that I'd rather have a thin cotton item burn quickly, rather than plastic fabric melt into my/kids skin. What do they treat cotton with, anyway, to make it flame-retardant?) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Every time I see someone driving an SUV, they are engaging in a behavior which reinforces my negative opinion of them, and which I then apply to all people who drive SUVs. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 16:55:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LKtlFF008017 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:55:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LKsG2j082845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:54:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LKsBAE010639; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:54:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LKs6Bh010556 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:54:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-115.cvip.net [129.8.205.115]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EA172EE19 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621134948.03316990@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:54:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric In-Reply-To: <42B86808.9040501@thibault.org> References: <1c9.2b0b1fb0.2fe9b812@aol.com> <42B86808.9040501@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:18 PM 6/21/2005, you wrote: >(My own choices have been based on the theory that I'd rather have a thin >cotton item burn quickly, rather than plastic fabric melt into my/kids >skin. What do they treat cotton with, anyway, to make it flame-retardant?) > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent I have several ready-made cotton children's pjs, and they are not flame retardant (and are so marked). However, if I stuck him into polyester clothing during our hot summers, he would have heat issues from the heat trapped inside the garment. But I am like you, I would rather it burn off quickly than melt onto skin, retardant or no. I also would prefer such natural fiber garments for winter wear, but I cannot find lightweight wool winter pjs, so polyester will do ok to keep him warm during our semi-cold months. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 17:02:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LL2bRV008055 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:02:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LL1RJU083774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:01:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LL1jq4016580; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:01:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LL1frr016515 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:01:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-115.cvip.net [129.8.205.115]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CDC62EE66 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621135423.033165b8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:56:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-Reply-To: <20050621073229.15652.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620122029.032f8c40@64.87.54.245> <20050621073229.15652.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:32 AM 6/21/2005, you wrote: > ** Have you tried looking in a tack and western wear >shop for those Boy's suspenders? Or a dance supplies >store. > had the same problem with my son, long skinny >legs,tiny waist= suspenders >Melody Hi Melody, I had tried western wear, but couldn't find them small enough locally, maybe I will try them online. And we no longer have a dance supply store that carries boy's wear... only frilly girly stuff. Sad, really. But again, maybe the Internet has something. Thank you. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 17:14:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LLEicb008122 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:14:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LLE7G8085099 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLDKWu025779; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:13:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLD8bX025584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5LL88lR027165 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:08:08 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B882CA.6020705@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:12:42 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric References: <1c9.2b0b1fb0.2fe9b812@aol.com> <42B86808.9040501@thibault.org> <6.2.1.2.0.20050621134948.03316990@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621134948.03316990@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > I have several ready-made cotton children's pjs, and they are not flame > retardant (and are so marked). Yeah, if they're snug, snug like long underwear, they don't have to be treated to be legally sold as such in the US. It was somone on this list, several years ago, who had information on what was done to cotton to make it flame retardant, and it was nasty. But that's old information and the methods may have changed. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 17:15:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LLFWQH008126 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:15:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LLEU3C085156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:14:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLEdnA026835; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLELDm026498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:14:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5LL9IlR027172 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:09:18 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B88310.6050403@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:13:52 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] kid suspenders/"braces" RE: The Droopy Pants Thing References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620122029.032f8c40@64.87.54.245> <20050621073229.15652.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050621135423.033165b8@64.87.54.245> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621135423.033165b8@64.87.54.245> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko Small wrote: > I had tried western wear, but couldn't find them small enough locally, > maybe I will try them online. Why not make them? I'm sure I've seen the fittings in catalogs. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 17:36:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LLaXfK008343 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LLZoWO087699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:35:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLZvbB044081; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLZZEO043727 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:35:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-115.cvip.net [129.8.205.115]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 515245DE87 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621142913.03316328@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:35:34 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] kid suspenders/"braces" RE: The Droopy Pants Thing In-Reply-To: <42B88310.6050403@thibault.org> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050620122029.032f8c40@64.87.54.245> <20050621073229.15652.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050621135423.033165b8@64.87.54.245> <42B88310.6050403@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:13 PM 6/21/2005, you wrote: >Kimiko Small wrote: > >>I had tried western wear, but couldn't find them small enough locally, >>maybe I will try them online. > >Why not make them? I'm sure I've seen the fittings in catalogs. > >cv I've seen the fittings from Greenberg and Hammer, and they are adult sizing only (and the button kind). Do you know of any catalogs that carry toddler sizes? But I have found the suspender store that carries toddler sized suspenders! http://www.suspenderstore.com/kidssuspenders.html . Now if only they had them with trains on the elastic... my son loves trains. Thanks all for the suggestions. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 17:55:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LLtUqB008437 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LLsS60089737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:54:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLsh9m058406; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:54:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LLsYCI058258 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:54:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LPRA6Z20QO8YB5C9@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:54:03 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.5.228] by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LPRA6Y0G9I8WYJCG@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:54:02 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:55:38 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the droopy pants thing In-reply-to: <57101.12.34.13.114.1119375334.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B88CDA.3070606@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Windows/20040502) References: <57101.12.34.13.114.1119375334.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: >>>Remember Ebonics? It was the idea of accepting some things as part >>>of thier own culture. >>> >>> >>??? >> >>I'm sorry, you've lost me. Could you explain this further? >> >> > > Ebonics was the study of language in America, specifically of African >American who were lower economic level. I'm not sure if it was >considered a dialect - I'm not up on linguistics. There are plenty >of resources on the web (including "translators" for humor). > > My point in mentioning it is that a lot of study has been done on >something that is "imporper" English. It's become something with its >own rules. > > Back to clothing, as many people have said on the list it's also >improper, and yet being studied and discussed. > I seem to remember there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth a few years ago when a California school district decided to "recognise" Ebonics in the classroom. Some people decided that this meant that schools were treating Ebonics as a seperate language, or making "bad" English equal to "good", etc, etc, ad nauseam. Never mind that the purpose of recognising it was to provide better instruction in standard English to children who used Ebonics at home by recognising that Ebonics has a consistent grammar and teaching the differences between Eboics and standard English grammar explicitly. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Quot homines, tot sententiae. ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 18:15:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LMFbtL008581 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:15:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LMEmd4091784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:14:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LMF1gW073533; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:15:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LMEuRc073389 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.192.4264fcc0 (16633) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:14:30 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <192.4264fcc0.2fe9eb45@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:14:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/21/2005 3:19:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1134933239.11e414@thibault.org writes: (My own choices have been based on the theory that I'd rather have a thin cotton item burn quickly, rather than plastic fabric melt into my/kids skin. What do they treat cotton with, anyway, to make it flame-retardant?) There was a fairly successful treatment to make cotton flame-retardant, but it must not have been commercially successful. There are home recipes for doing it yourself with borax and boric acid, but these were water soluble and so had to be re-applied after every washing. Cotton flannel, because of the nap, is really incendiary, while the inherently flame-retardant fibers do NOT melt and drip. And besides, my granddaughters live in Florida, so cotton flannel isn't really very practical for them. But, to answer my own question, I forgot that the flame retardant flannel that Handcock sells is called "Grand Flannel." Strangely, the website does not mention its flame retardant properties. But I have found other extremely annoying features of the search engine on the website. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 18:19:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LMJ4OJ008605 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LMIIbh092162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LMIcKo076248; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:18:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LMIYmD076162 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:18:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.c8.61648545 (16633) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:17:59 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:17:59 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/21/2005 4:55:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: I have several ready-made cotton children's pjs, and they are not flame retardant (and are so marked). yes, I've noticed in reading labels on ready-made sleepwear that evidently the legislation was changed to allow knit cotton fabrics for children's sleepwear, as long as they are "snug fitting." Don't know if that was a result of pressure from manufacturers, or consumers, or something else--I've been out of touch with all those issues for about 10 years now. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 18:24:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LMOQrU008640 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:24:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LMMlo3092741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LMN3tt079512; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:23:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LMMusE079442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5LMI0lR027746 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:18:00 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:18:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B8932A.5080807@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:22:34 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric References: <192.4264fcc0.2fe9eb45@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <192.4264fcc0.2fe9eb45@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > the inherently flame-retardant fibers do NOT > melt and drip. What do they do, then? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 19:38:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LNcHUd008993 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:38:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LNbLUR001509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:37:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LNbdlg030499; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:37:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.225]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LNbZeG030431 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:37:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.140]) by mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LNb841025652 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:37:08 -0400 Received: from 24-196-146-62.mazo.wi.charter.com (HELO OurComputer) (24.196.146.62) by mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2005 19:37:08 -0400 Message-Id: <44akag$ufmkoq@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,219,1115006400"; d="scan'208"; a="1023103770:sNHT35700918" From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:37:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <1c9.2b0b1fb0.2fe9b812@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcV2khWfsrfOKg0GQ7Ogsb280/bG9wAJ/KWA X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know that at my JoAnns there are a few flame-retardant knits in the nursery section - mostly prints I think, although I don't think they are licensed characters. ******************************************************************* Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence Bristol Renaissance Faire My arms are too short to box with God. --Johnny Cash ******************************************************************* -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:36 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric Does anyone on the list know of a source for flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric? I haven't had any luck at either JoAnn or Hancock, and I know both used to carry it in some basic solid colors. I refuse to use regular cotton flannel, and I'm not thrilled with the ready-made sleepwear out there--it is all printed with licensed characters! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 19:59:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5LNxw9p009112 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:59:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5LNwdCr003034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5LNwuKb041588; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:58:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5LNwprX041505 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:58:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBMTLNCASLZDUS for (sender ); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:57:54 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn74ViJS+llU2zycvLlWvaYYcZRFUfciodaA== Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KV3CE2GH; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:57:33 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:20:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleep wear fabric Message-ID: <20050621.182005.-98210767.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-9,11-15 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 4:6:1651942344 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I watching cable TV last night and saw a piece on the technology of NASCAR (yes, it was a slow night on TV) where they discussed the evolution of the fireproof suit that racers wear these days (or so they tell me-I'm not actually into NASCAR). In the 60's the cotton suits were dipped in the borax/boric acid mixture which made them fire retardant, but also caused many racers to have uncomfortable skin rashes. Because of this, many racers in the 60's refused to wear the flame retardant suits until one very popular driver named 'Fireball' died from burns sustained in a crash. I mention this only to warn folks that the borax/boric acid mixture has it's drawbacks as a functional fire retardant........ Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 20:50:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M0oNe2009365 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:50:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M0nWBn007159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M0nLlG066930; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M0mNOu066564 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:48:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.217.34e8ca5 (17377) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:47:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <217.34e8ca5.2fea0f37@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:47:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/21/2005 6:23:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1134944280.82d189@thibault.org writes: What do they do, then? They self-extinguish-- Char and curl a little, and then go out. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 21:12:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M1CCid009449 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:12:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M1BSKM008977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:11:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1BlKE078243; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:11:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1BiHQ078152 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:11:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.1fa.b016066 (17377) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:11:13 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1fa.b016066.2fea14b1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:11:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleep wear fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And, there is a difference between FIREPROOF and Flame Retardant--the former being rather more important for race car drivers, I imagine. Nomex and Kevlar are fireproof--the former being used for firefighters' suits, and aircraft carrier flight crews, for example. The children's sleepwear fabrics I'm speaking of, are, on the other hand, flame retardant, meaning they are slow to burn. Almost all fibers will burn. (Kevlar, Nomex, and glass being exceptions.) The question is, how fast? All fibers sold in the US today have to meet basic flammability standards. Read about the Cocoanut Grove nightclub fire, or the 1950s "torch" sweaters, made out of brushed rayon--they were evidently so flammable that they burst into flame if cigarette ash fell on them--if you want some background on the rationale for federal legislation. I believe there were also some incidents in the late 1940s of first communion dresses made of cotton batiste that caught on fire from open candles in churches. Children's sleepwear had to meet more rigid standards. As I said, I don't know when the "tight fitting knits" exceptions were allowed. I think I will be able to find the "Grand Flannel" at Hancock's in basic colors, which is just what I'm looking for. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 21:27:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M1R87M009500 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:27:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M1QQXQ010024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:26:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1QjUC085165; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web54402.mail.yahoo.com (web54402.mail.yahoo.com [68.142.225.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5M1QifR085104 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:26:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from texas_byrd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 39701 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 2005 01:26:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=DWULJquR2yUfvmdsxe01h22mRdOqKPi85Z51VkupGuaiCI+9SXtt8CmRRtFNJmUvpnQLEEWQig1j82SbXFGsveafHEqBVTb+HaKZDqo5CA6GyYZRFkuX37zaQqvLmdeL92EKprgRvHFF14/sJc7vUsGmRdtktS1DY1FUO19jTl0= ; Message-ID: <20050622012616.39699.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.240.91.88] by web54402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:26:16 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:26:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary Lawhorne To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Fashion in 1109 or thereabouts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The whole research about costume has me befuddled. I am developing a Welsh persona that was born in 1066 right as William the Conqueror came over and is about my age now. So it would be around 1109. Would the Welsh have adopted the clothing of the conquering Normans? Such as the boat-like sleeves? Would this person wear fashions from the past years or so due to politicla leaning or poverty compaed to the conquerors? What would be the difference between the clothing this person would wear for everydy and for festive occasions? How would the clothing be decorated? The Welsh supposedly loved bright clothing, but what does bright mean? And deocrations would be.... Anything else I really need to know? If you could lead me to any great sources to look at or delve into, I would appreciate it. Many sources I find only have a paragraph. I am not sufficiently able to interpret from a paragraph. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Mary Lawhorne --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 21:29:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M1TRVC009517 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:29:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M1SnL0010273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:28:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1TBq0086379; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1T8YA086321 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:29:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.7a.75e12fad (17377) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:28:38 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <7a.75e12fad.2fea18c6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:28:38 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleep wear fabric To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, I think we can bring this discussion to a close. The standards on children's sleepwear in the US were amended in 1996, in response to consumers who wanted 100% cotton sleepwear, according the Consumer Product Safety Commission. That is when the "skin tight" regulations went into effect. For those of you who favor natural fibers, please be aware that the fabric construction, as well as the fiber content, affect flammability. Thus, cotton flannel, with the nap, is more flammable than a smooth surface cotton. Also, those of you who have children (or grandchildren, as I do), please remember that the ignition can be very sudden, no matter how careful you are--a candle, a stove burner, a spark from a fireplace--so please don't think this whole thing is senseless. Okay, down off my soapbox. I'll be buying some Grand Flannel soon--have to make my granddaughter a nightgown for Christmas! Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 21:43:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M1hmhj009575 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:43:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M1h8cf011302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:43:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1hROj093229; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:43:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web54409.mail.yahoo.com (web54409.mail.yahoo.com [68.142.225.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5M1hO4A093177 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:43:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from texas_byrd@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 21001 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 2005 01:42:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xyvB8Vh/Qlt3j4WCOzflmjqi5qmetm7ObNkbdbBUgj3TcQQV0UBZ4PUP0hj4Tfy1UzroBp0PJo89AlW2chJ2KYRwXt0PjrydDa8RRNghQ2I/Ypr3tsMys98Ss+c75SdByQq8TPQWliRCzz9uz8PB6YhGeW5/ScVQd0aEGFLESjM= ; Message-ID: <20050622014257.20999.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.240.91.88] by web54409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:42:57 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mary Lawhorne To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Friday on hall duty, a boy was walking down the stairs and his pants fell to his ankles. I got a view of much more than I really wanted to see. He was quite amused by his friends seeing him in his underwear and having a teacher see him. He made us all into passive voyeurs (sp?). Yuck. This style is so draining of what few brian cells teeagers have. They have to worry about their pants falling down to the deteriment of all other thoughts. As far as wanting to seem poor, didn't the punk rockers originally start off protesting being have nots, and then when the punk look became all the rage, people actually spent good money on it? It amazes me that so many 'haves' spend their money trying to look like 'have nots'. Also, the new style for girls with the low-rise pants and high-rise shirts or overly plump girls makes me think 'corpulent." However, this style doesn't really look great on anyone except the almost anorexic. However, with all of this I am humbled by a highschool picture of me in a purple crop top and grey dress pants with my hair in a bun and blue irredescent eye shadow. I was hot. (NOT) Mary Lawhorne __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 21:47:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M1luEq009592 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:47:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M1kuBK011704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:46:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1lH7l095133; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:47:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M1lDis095095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:47:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5M1gElR029959 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:42:14 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:42:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B8C308.4000004@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:46:48 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric: burn test References: <217.34e8ca5.2fea0f37@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <217.34e8ca5.2fea0f37@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > They self-extinguish-- Char and curl a little, and then go out. I got really curious, so I cut the self-fabric ties off of my daughter's new 100% poly "flame retardant" jammies and burn tested them. Waving the match past it, less than a second: melt Waving the match, about a second: melt and drip molten stuff Holding the match to it, about 2 seconds, and removing match: enthusiastic flame with flaming bits breaking off of fabric. Plus melted drips. Moral: If you're concerned about it and have flame around your house, burn test everything, making no assumptions. -- Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 21 22:29:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M2Tc4d009737 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 22:29:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M2SoFH015934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:28:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M2TAa1016373; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:29:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M2T776016349 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:29:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9851E4019F for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 59E7C3950; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:28:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:28:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric: burn test X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.73] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCuMzTAAHnQQEAAAAB,103be636a50945d159d6aa3e59e4241e Message-Id: <20050622022835.59E7C3950@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Back in the early 60's I raced sports cars and we were required to wear flame retardent coveralls. I don't remember the exact proportions, but it was just borax (no boric acid) that we used. It didn't cause me to itch, but it was so strong it destroyed the fabric after just a few treatments. Ruined my favorite coveralls too. If you really want to treat a garment, I would recommend checking with your dry cleaner and see if they can do it for you without destroying the fabric. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: From: Cynthia Virtue Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:46:48 -0400 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric: burn test AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > They self-extinguish-- Char and curl a little, and then go out. I got really curious, so I cut the self-fabric ties off of my daughter's new 100% poly "flame retardant" jammies and burn tested them. Waving the match past it, less than a second: melt Waving the match, about a second: melt and drip molten stuff Holding the match to it, about 2 seconds, and removing match: enthusiastic flame with flaming bits breaking off of fabric. Plus melted drips. Moral: If you're concerned about it and have flame around your house, burn test everything, making no assumptions. -- Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 01:29:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M5TEpG010448 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:29:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M5SNbX032147 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:28:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M5SgLc099581; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:28:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M5Scbu099529 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:28:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m159.in-tch.com [216.166.191.159]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5M5MwE16886 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42B8F84A.1020702@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:34:02 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Flame retardant children's sleepwear fabric References: <1c9.2b0b1fb0.2fe9b812@aol.com> <42B86808.9040501@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <42B86808.9040501@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO They treat it with chemicals. I used to work with fire-retardant fabrics, and actually developed a pretty severe sensitivity to anything in that line. Our tent fabrics (cotton) were treated with, IIRC, borax, so now, unfortunately, I have problems with it wherever it shows up--clothing, furniture, tents, sleeping bags, cosmetics.... Ick. Dunno what they use with or in some of the non-natural fabrics that are fire retardant or flame resistant, but I have a similar reaction with them. I'd much, much rather wear non-treated clothing. or sleepwear.... --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > AnnBWass@aol.com wrote: > >> I refuse to use regular cotton flannel > > > Why? That might help folks steer you to sources for what you want. > > (My own choices have been based on the theory that I'd rather have a > thin cotton item burn quickly, rather than plastic fabric melt into > my/kids skin. What do they treat cotton with, anyway, to make it > flame-retardant?) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 02:25:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5M6P7bW019354 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 02:25:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5M6OKa6036440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:24:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5M6Oh6s025058; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:24:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5M6Oeaa024999 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:24:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 93508 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Jun 2005 06:24:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=LvFjIlv4V6CSOB0e1pf7TK2tDY7/DUpd6w56m+zR73v69GTcz7KjkhdAWQGHyXhVUEf1tFa/LVk3KQfRE6axXOAs4dnez7COHZNbUZ3jYcDrQ4HiDgkCFJinzpJiuwYTcdMldBgZGd/tQ11WfvbtXt2CDC+GcxFCJ7l+COf7/9w= ; Message-ID: <20050622062410.93506.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.14] by web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:24:10 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:24:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] lil boy suspenders ..... To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050621135423.033165b8@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hmmm ...too bad that didn't work out. One last idea, try, perhaps, a tux/formal rental store. Tiny ring bearers are often outfitted with suspenders. Melody --- Kimiko Small wrote: > At 12:32 AM 6/21/2005, you wrote: > > ** Have you tried looking in a tack and western > wear > >shop for those Boy's suspenders? Or a dance > supplies > >store. > > had the same problem with my son, long skinny > >legs,tiny waist= suspenders > >Melody > > > Hi Melody, > > I had tried western wear, but couldn't find them > small enough locally, > maybe I will try them online. And we no longer have > a dance supply store > that carries boy's wear... only frilly girly stuff. > Sad, really. But again, > maybe the Internet has something. > > Thank you. > > Kimiko > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 08:42:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MCg3eS012577 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MCesbS079723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MCfI96083625; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:41:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from S3.cableone.net (smtp3.cableone.net [24.116.0.229]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MCPsMm076003 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:25:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [24.119.251.184]) by S3.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S3) with ESMTP id 23675837 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:36:11 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:25:42 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c57725$822d7680$6401a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20050622062410.93506.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 74, in=70, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.119.251.184 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lil boy suspenders ..... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a place that sells only children's suspenders: http://www.suspenders-online.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi Kim _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 08:50:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MCoDTp012602 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:50:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MCnT64080403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:49:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MCnnst088006; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:49:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MCngC5087820 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 06:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id g11so100171rne for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:49:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=twRhhnCHjkwRmpBbeWZh5S+uNu0G5ET0w9hwIgzc67PCipkEeoPiWbtHziSMF2DHNsWdR2YI2eu11yUNpQrOnzAVo7sflL/mDTCcEfPnPZRa0/4qlzFzOUFLORgA4EdC2G//LFrR5Hd0ayTkB8OuCY95HZb196n25+aZp+V9t6o= Received: by 10.38.67.28 with SMTP id p28mr321052rna; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.86.43 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:49:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac190506220549607523de@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:49:12 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5MCngC5087820 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 6/21/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:07:55 EDT > From: Chindora@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <128.5f3546a5.2fe8de8b@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 6/20/2005 6:18:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > cvirtue+dated+1134868435.b9977f@thibault.org writes: > > Or the White Folks. Or the Rich Folks. Or Whomever-isn't-them-Folks. > Age is only part of it. > > > Like I said earlier, my beef is not that I am not the same colour (I have > seen people of all colours dressing this way), nor that I ain't one of them, > because I do consider myself part of the human race. I don't think it is that > my age is different, or that I am an uptight, staid matron. I just do not > want to look at a complete stranger's underwear, whether a thong sticking up > at the back of a pair of jeans, or a guys drawers and half of his butt > sticking out of the back of his pants. I fail to see what fashion statement it is > making, when as we have seen here there are so many different theories as to > why it even developed and is perpetuated today. I realize that we all have > different opinions and outlooks on this, and so I guess that the only way to > deal with it is to look the other way, but personally I find it just gross that > a guy has to walk around grabbing at the groin area of his pants just to > keep them from dropping to his knees. I do seem to remember that the 17th century offered a lot of portraits with people in their "underwear" (chemises/shirts) floating off shoulders and coming open - I'm sure to them it was at least as shocking as seeing boxers poking out from under jeans (not particularly new - I was seeing this fashion at raves in the mid 1990s - on men as well as women. Yes, women in boxers!). Chanel vented mightily about the exposure of women's knees in the 1960s with miniskirts. I think the Regency folks got all bent out of shape over tight men's pants and women's flimsy dresses (though I suspect that the latter may be part of costume mythology). In other words - nothing new here. > > I pointed out in an earlier post that my teenage daughter (I have three > daughters, two sons) is now wearing these shirts that look like multiple shirts > layered one over the other. To me, that is an example of "faking it", and I > can tie that to historical fashion statements like the fake sleeves and fake > puffs particularly of the Tudor/Elizabethan/Renaissance in general. We have > discussed some recent huffs that people got in over clothes, but what are > some older, more historic examples that we can tie in with this? I have heard > rumours that the sideless surcoat (If that is even the correct name for it, > sorry not my period) was considered shameless and was given the nickname "The > Gates of Hell." I don't know if it is true or not, but would be interested in > hearing more about this, and other items of clothing that really raised the > ire of the Church and more of the (ahem) respectable citizens of the > different eras that we try to learn more about. Why do you have such a need to tie fashion statements of today to statements of the past? Sometimes I suspect most teenagers don't think about their choices too far beyond "everyone else is doing it" and "it will make my parents mad - goodie!" I know I didn't ;) > > ~Kimberley Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 09:04:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MD4ZFn012700 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MD3fJv081877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:03:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MD48OX095703; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MD44Yj095581 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:04:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.ff.15f64438 (15974) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MBLK-M07 (mblk-m07.mblk.aol.com [64.12.136.40]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e6642b9619e360; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:03:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:03:25 -0400 Message-Id: <8C74541E946588D-AF0-1439C@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <7d21ac190506220549607523de@mail.gmail.com> Received: from 68.153.231.89 by MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com (64.12.136.40) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:03:25 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <7d21ac190506220549607523de@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 64.12.136.40 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Allison T. said: Why do you have such a need to tie fashion statements of today to statements of the past? It is not as if it is some deep seated need on my part, I just find it amusing, and interesting. Parhaps it is also a way to show that some of the most basic trends in humanity remain the same, regardless of how much the world evolves. I find that it helps to keep in touch with the notion that these are not just costumes, but clothes. :) ~Kimberley -----Original Message----- From: A. Thurman To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:49:12 -0400 Subject: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs On 6/21/05, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > > Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:07:55 EDT > From: Chindora@aol.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs > To: h-costume@indra.com > Message-ID: <128.5f3546a5.2fe8de8b@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 6/20/2005 6:18:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > cvirtue+dated+1134868435.b9977f@thibault.org writes: > > Or the White Folks. Or the Rich Folks. Or Whomever-isn't-them-Folks. > Age is only part of it. > > > Like I said earlier, my beef is not that I am not the same colour (I have > seen people of all colours dressing this way), nor that I ain't one of them, > because I do consider myself part of the human race. I don't think it is that > my age is different, or that I am an uptight, staid matron. I just do not > want to look at a complete stranger's underwear, whether a thong sticking up > at the back of a pair of jeans, or a guys drawers and half of his butt > sticking out of the back of his pants. I fail to see what fashion statement it is > making, when as we have seen here there are so many different theories as to > why it even developed and is perpetuated today. I realize that we all have > different opinions and outlooks on this, and so I guess that the only way to > deal with it is to look the other way, but personally I find it just gross that > a guy has to walk around grabbing at the groin area of his pants just to > keep them from dropping to his knees. I do seem to remember that the 17th century offered a lot of portraits with people in their "underwear" (chemises/shirts) floating off shoulders and coming open - I'm sure to them it was at least as shocking as seeing boxers poking out from under jeans (not particularly new - I was seeing this fashion at raves in the mid 1990s - on men as well as women. Yes, women in boxers!). Chanel vented mightily about the exposure of women's knees in the 1960s with miniskirts. I think the Regency folks got all bent out of shape over tight men's pants and women's flimsy dresses (though I suspect that the latter may be part of costume mythology). In other words - nothing new here. > > I pointed out in an earlier post that my teenage daughter (I have three > daughters, two sons) is now wearing these shirts that look like multiple shirts > layered one over the other. To me, that is an example of "faking it", and I > can tie that to historical fashion statements like the fake sleeves and fake > puffs particularly of the Tudor/Elizabethan/Renaissance in general. We have > discussed some recent huffs that people got in over clothes, but what are > some older, more historic examples that we can tie in with this? I have heard > rumours that the sideless surcoat (If that is even the correct name for it, > sorry not my period) was considered shameless and was given the nickname "The > Gates of Hell." I don't know if it is true or not, but would be interested in > hearing more about this, and other items of clothing that really raised the > ire of the Church and more of the (ahem) respectable citizens of the > different eras that we try to learn more about. Why do you have such a need to tie fashion statements of today to statements of the past? Sometimes I suspect most teenagers don't think about their choices too far beyond "everyone else is doing it" and "it will make my parents mad - goodie!" I know I didn't ;) > > ~Kimberley Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 09:42:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MDgJWd013038 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:42:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MDfJlE085460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:41:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MDfjna016083; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MDfeY8015982 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:41:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j5MDf6d14728.; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:41:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:41:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:40:47 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5MDfeY8015982 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> athurman@gmail.com 22/06/2005 13:49 >>> wrote: >I do seem to remember that the 17th century offered a lot of portraits >with people in their "underwear" (chemises/shirts) floating off >shoulders and coming open - I'm sure to them it was at least as >shocking as seeing boxers poking out from under jeans . Not just off the shoulder; men in the mid-17th century used to leave their *lower* doublet buttons undone so that the shirt puffed out (not the upper buttons as we would do today), and the skimpy doublets worn with petticoat breeches showed even more shirt at the waist. It was considered "sexy" because the shirt was underwear, even though it was a shapeless garment. ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 10:20:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MEK1m8013358 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:20:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MEIRGm089396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:18:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MEIs7W039295; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:18:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MEIpwl039201 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:18:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22697 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:37:04 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:37:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-Reply-To: <8C74541E946588D-AF0-1439C@MBLK-M07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 chindora@aol.com wrote: > Allison T. said: > > Why do you have such a need to tie fashion statements of today to > statements of the past? > > It is not as if it is some deep seated need on my part, I just find it > amusing, and interesting. Parhaps it is also a way to show that some > of the most basic trends in humanity remain the same, regardless of > how much the world evolves. I find that it helps to keep in touch > with the notion that these are not just costumes, but clothes. Gee. I read it as simply as an attempt to bring the thread back on-topic for this list. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 14:38:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MIcQxR015726 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:38:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MIbRRT022176 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:37:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIbg7F075195; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:37:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIbVgl075023 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:37:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5MIaxG2001495 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:36:59 -0400 Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-73.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.73]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5MIat8L024877 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:36:58 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050622113234.033a6c68@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:36:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-Reply-To: <7d21ac190506220549607523de@mail.gmail.com> References: <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A. Thurman writes, in a message sent 08:49 AM 6/22/2005 -0400: >Why do you have such a need to tie fashion statements of today to >statements of the past? Sometimes I suspect most teenagers don't think >about their choices too far beyond "everyone else is doing it" and "it >will make my parents mad - goodie!" I know I didn't ;) It's not so much tying teenage fashion statements to the past, I think, so much as putting these in a larger fashion picture; giving them their proper perspective. As in, teenagers annoying their elders is nothing new. BTW, I hear that Brighan Young railed against fly-front trousers, as opposed to fall-front ones, as "fornication pants" (when "pants" was the word for underpants and "trousers" the word for outerwear). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 14:40:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MIeZ9g015738 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:40:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MIdneT022428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:39:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIeCbU077212; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:40:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net (smtp5.suscom.net [64.78.83.238]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIe4Hl076995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:40:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A4851021B for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp5.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 04360-01 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourajsk2d7kxx (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B4BD85102A9 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <030701c57759$ab3ec720$c2b6eb40@yourajsk2d7kxx> From: "Dianne and Greg" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net><8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com><42B72811.4060706@paradise.net.nz><8C743EF816768B9-670-D21D@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> <8296995c0506201641147ba638@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:31:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing > My miniskirts were frowned upon in the 1960s, as were my midi skirts > in the 70s (go figure!), as were my day-glo painted tennies, my bell > bottomed jeans and later, my hip huggers that didn't show a half inch > of skin. > > The rolled jeans, as tidy as they were, and the t-shirt with the > cigarette pack in the folded up sleeve were really frowned on in the > 1950s. People who wore these styles were either bikers or not WASPish > enough for middle America. > > My dad got into trouble for wearing tight butt corduroy pants with > wide legs in school in 1945-46. My dad wanted nothing more when he was a teen than to have a black leather jacket. His mom wouldn't allow it. A brown leather jacket, in the exact same style, was fine, but he was not allowed to have a black one. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 14:40:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MIebDN015741 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:40:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MIdoXm022433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIeGK7077269; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net (smtp5.suscom.net [64.78.83.238]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIe4pu076998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:40:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33EB5102A9 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp5.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 02139-01 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourajsk2d7kxx (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 886EB5102A0 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:39:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <030601c57759$ab248860$c2b6eb40@yourajsk2d7kxx> From: "Dianne and Greg" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13246417.1119272198836.JavaMail.root@wamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <8C743B7C463C721-670-A7B3@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com><53425.12.34.13.209.1119290340.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <8C743DE94F49A6B-670-C5D0@MBLK-M15.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:28:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing > Well, I guess I should have been more specific. I can understand the whole teen thing, I have 5 kids, and each has had their own "thing", however, I am not just seeing this style on teens, but even on toddlers, as young as two and three. It just makes me shake my head to see these little munchkins running around trying to hold their pants up while they go about the regular business of being a kid. Heh. I have two kids, ages seven and ten, who have absolutely no butts. (And how I wish I had their problem..but I digress..) The seven year old weighs 40 pounds if that. Trying to find pants that will stay up on either of them is a joke, as even the slim sizes are too big, so I guess, instead of cringing when Steven walks around with his pants halfway down his butt, I should be grateful that he is so stylish! (Not.) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 14:41:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MIfePA015747 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MIef0R022554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:40:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIfCdD078092; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:41:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIf8ed078032 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:41:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.245]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D818262826 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:40:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00a501c57759$eac7bb40$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:40:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1700 fair X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Friday i go to the 1700 fair again. This time i have started a new waistcoat embroidery wich i will bring to the fair. I also can tell you that my blue suit was back from a cleaning and it was very well done. I am sewing a longer lace to my shirt so that it will be better suited to be used with the blue suit. My waistcoat projekt is this: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/herreveste..htm Now i hope and pray for no rain this weekend. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 14:42:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MIgvde015771 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:42:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MIfpjD022639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MIgMEs078955; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:42:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5MIgGTh078902 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:42:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-1404); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:39:45 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:39:45 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050622113838.00dc92d0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:41:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/951/Wed Jun 22 07:28:13 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just ordered 20 yards of handkerchief-weight 50-50 linen-cotton blend from Denverfabrics.com for only $1.98 per yard (45" wide). Since my order has been accepted, I thought I'd share the wealth . Their email notification has some nice stuff this time. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 17:32:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MLWSsi017155 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MLVVHH043648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:31:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MLW18c077102; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:32:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MLVtCZ076964 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:31:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0III005R2942AQB0@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:30:55 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20050622113234.033a6c68@mail.frys.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B9D88F.6090208@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050622113234.033a6c68@mail.frys.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > BTW, I hear that Brighan Young railed against fly-front trousers, as > opposed to fall-front ones, as "fornication pants" (when "pants" was > the word for underpants and "trousers" the word for outerwear). what is the differernce between "fly front" and "fall front" in pants? (can you tell i focus on women's outfits?) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 19:15:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5MNFKOC017804 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:15:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5MNEJaH055272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:14:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MNEno1048172; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:14:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from linda-4.paradise.net.nz (bm-4a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.58.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MNEiUU048121 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:14:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (smtp-1a.paradise.net.nz [202.0.32.194]) by linda-4.paradise.net.nz (Paradise.net.nz) with ESMTP id <0III0064JDVLYJ@linda-4.paradise.net.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:14:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from paradise.net.nz (203-96-146-148.apx1.paradise.net.nz [203.96.146.148]) by smtp-1.paradise.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915F8829EF for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:14:08 +1200 (NZST) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:06:54 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-reply-to: <42B9D88F.6090208@optonline.net> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <42B9EF0E.7080209@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 References: <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050622113234.033a6c68@mail.frys.com> <42B9D88F.6090208@optonline.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO J Schueller wrote: > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> >> BTW, I hear that Brighan Young railed against fly-front trousers, as >> opposed to fall-front ones, as "fornication pants" (when "pants" was >> the word for underpants and "trousers" the word for outerwear). > > > what is the differernce between "fly front" and "fall front" in pants? > (can you tell i focus on women's outfits?) Fly front: like most modern men's pants and many modern women's pants in construction, but with buttons in place of a zipper. Fall front: has a centre opening, but no fly. The gap in the front centre is covered by a squarish flap that buttons on both sides of the front waistband. Adele d'M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 20:08:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5N08akA018012 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:08:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5N07mqG059445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:07:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N08KBk076208; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N08BvA076122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 13892 invoked by uid 507); 23 Jun 2005 10:07:36 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 23 Jun 2005 10:07:36 +1000 Message-ID: <004201c57787$8e91fe70$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:07:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate wrote: > Not just off the shoulder; men in the mid-17th century used to leave their > *lower* doublet buttons undone so that the shirt puffed out (not the upper > buttons as we would do today), and the skimpy doublets worn with petticoat > breeches showed even more shirt at the waist. It was considered "sexy" > because the shirt was underwear, even though it was a shapeless garment. I have to remind my 15yo to undo the lower buttons fairly much each time he's wearing his 17th century clothes, as he wears a cote and breeches. My husband finds it easier. He wears a suit. His breeches are a couple of inches wider than his waist and are attached to his doublet by ribbons (his next suit breeches will likewise be attached by hooks). When he gets hot (not an if living in Australia!), if he opens his top buttons, the whole suit tries to make its way groundwards. It's not a problem if he opens the bottom buttons only. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 23:26:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5N3QsYX018854 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5N3Q3M3073933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:26:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N3QWrw065661; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:26:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wombat.hvi.net (mail.hvi.net [64.72.88.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N3QSvN065627 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanne@jafath.com) Received: from joanne.jafath.com (unverified [66.6.177.87]) by wombat.hvi.net (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.340.3) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:25:52 -0400 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.0.20050622232103.01b1e398@pop.hvi.net> X-Sender: jafath@pop.hvi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:25:44 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jo Anne Fatherly In-Reply-To: <200506221800.j5MI0b7S044544@net.indra.com> References: <200506221800.j5MI0b7S044544@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] slightly OT, but someone may know X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are people here who spend much more time than I do looking at works of art: maybe someone will recognize this piece. A patron at my library is trying to identify the original of a wood carving (fairly deep relief panel) he has a replica of. I said I'd try. It's a man, looking around a door (and out of the frame). He holds a set of sheep shears, which is why this man's father told him the piece was called "The Sheep Shearer." His hair is chopped off square at chin-length and he wears that ubiquitous medieval brimmed "cap." He's got an angular face and looks rather northern European to me. Very little to go on, but does anyone have any ideas? Jo Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 23:50:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5N3oj81018962 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:50:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5N3nxQX075985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N3oXUW077483; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:50:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N3oT6v077449 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:50:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=I5eCrVg9/wSTl/pT0EoA8ut3OUWqTISAMAr3mOy8RwlDDOyhXEyOA+EsFqNI8oz6; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.101.47.218] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DlIiv-0001gY-BE; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:49:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050622012616.39699.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622012616.39699.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:07:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion in 1109 or thereabouts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d4784a0a1c3cc142586a149e9fa7dacc1460ea62108d15b7b260350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.47.218 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:26 PM -0700 6/21/05, Mary Lawhorne wrote: >The whole research about costume has me befuddled. I am developing a >Welsh persona that was born in 1066 right as William the Conqueror >came over and is about my age now. So it would be around 1109. > >Would the Welsh have adopted the clothing of the conquering Normans? >Such as the boat-like sleeves? > >Would this person wear fashions from the past years or so due to >politicla leaning or poverty compaed to the conquerors? > >What would be the difference between the clothing this person would >wear for everydy and for festive occasions? > >How would the clothing be decorated? The Welsh supposedly loved >bright clothing, but what does bright mean? And deocrations would >be.... > >Anything else I really need to know? If you could lead me to any >great sources to look at or delve into, I would appreciate it. Many >sources I find only have a paragraph. I am not sufficiently able to >interpret from a paragraph. Eventually my web site will include a collection of source materials on medieval Welsh costume that you might find helpful (it's a matter of doing the html conversion), but I have several FAQs on the topic that might give you a starting place -- or at least agree with some of your suspicions. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 22 23:50:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5N3okpe018965 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:50:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5N3nxoX075984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:49:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N3oXsQ077485; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:50:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N3oTOE077450 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:50:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=I5eCrVg9/wSTl/pT0EoA8ut3OUWqTISAMAr3mOy8RwlDDOyhXEyOA+EsFqNI8oz6; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.101.47.218] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DlIiv-0001gY-BE; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:49:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050622012616.39699.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050622012616.39699.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 20:07:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume , h-costume@net.indra.com From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fashion in 1109 or thereabouts Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d4784a0a1c3cc142586a149e9fa7dacc1460ea62108d15b7b260350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.47.218 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 6:26 PM -0700 6/21/05, Mary Lawhorne wrote: >The whole research about costume has me befuddled. I am developing a >Welsh persona that was born in 1066 right as William the Conqueror >came over and is about my age now. So it would be around 1109. > >Would the Welsh have adopted the clothing of the conquering Normans? >Such as the boat-like sleeves? > >Would this person wear fashions from the past years or so due to >politicla leaning or poverty compaed to the conquerors? > >What would be the difference between the clothing this person would >wear for everydy and for festive occasions? > >How would the clothing be decorated? The Welsh supposedly loved >bright clothing, but what does bright mean? And deocrations would >be.... > >Anything else I really need to know? If you could lead me to any >great sources to look at or delve into, I would appreciate it. Many >sources I find only have a paragraph. I am not sufficiently able to >interpret from a paragraph. Eventually my web site will include a collection of source materials on medieval Welsh costume that you might find helpful (it's a matter of doing the html conversion), but I have several FAQs on the topic that might give you a starting place -- or at least agree with some of your suspicions. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 00:12:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5N4CwQR019055 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5N4BaXk077909 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:11:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N4BYUA086602; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:11:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N4BV1w086585 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:11:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m2.in-tch.com [216.166.191.2]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5N45Pq04392 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42BA3797.1050702@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:16:23 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT, but someone may know References: <200506221800.j5MI0b7S044544@net.indra.com> <6.0.1.1.0.20050622232103.01b1e398@pop.hvi.net> In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20050622232103.01b1e398@pop.hvi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't have a clue, but someone on another list might. Do you mind if I forward this? --sue Jo Anne Fatherly wrote: > There are people here who spend much more time than I do looking at > works of art: maybe someone will recognize this piece. > > A patron at my library is trying to identify the original of a wood > carving (fairly deep relief panel) he has a replica of. I said I'd try. > > It's a man, looking around a door (and out of the frame). He holds a set > of sheep shears, which is why this man's father told him the piece was > called "The Sheep Shearer." His hair is chopped off square at > chin-length and he wears that ubiquitous medieval brimmed "cap." He's > got an angular face and looks rather northern European to me. > > Very little to go on, but does anyone have any ideas? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 06:47:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NAldBh020667 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:47:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5N9kaJA007284 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 03:46:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N9l0Vr025990; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 03:47:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5N9kvQ7025968 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 03:46:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5N9kGG2013920 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:46:16 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.73] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-73.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.73]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5N9k0hW259778 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:46:17 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050623001136.03489288@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:12:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT, but someone may know In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20050622232103.01b1e398@pop.hvi.net> References: <200506221800.j5MI0b7S044544@net.indra.com> <200506221800.j5MI0b7S044544@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Very little to go on, but does anyone have any ideas? Indeed - very little to go on without an image. Is one possible? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 10:08:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NE8Ypg022718 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:08:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NE7I2P040389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:07:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NE7sIb042805; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:07:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NE7p2f042761 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:07:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.245]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A531947FEE0 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:07:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c577fc$d8e66950$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:07:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] grow old dreams X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, sorry that i drop the droppy pants thing, i passed long ago. I was wondering about you all out there, what are your dreams when you (hopefully grow sain and helthy old) I have dreamed about making a video, yes i did say video ...... music video with Jean Phillipe Rammeaus harpsicord piece called "Les barricades Musterieause" (Mystical barricades) wich i have the feeling is about a labyrinth, big dangerous labyrinth in an old baroque garden. 2 ladies and 2 gentlemen have lost eachother in the treaturessed labyrinth and desperately search eachother. This i would (in my dream) make to a music video. They should be dressed in the high fashion of 1680 with tall fontanges and elaborately beautifull justeocorpses and mantuas with long trains, fans and lots of powdered wigs. Well well we all have our dreams, i dont know if i ever will be able to make this, would love to make the costumes for it, and then perhaps sell it to you? :-) Dont know who would bother to see it. Perhaps i should embroider it in stead in a big wall hanging.................. What is your dreams like?????? Sorry i broke your droopy pants thing. I for one thing dont mind, i use to go to a nude beach every summer, without any threads on, love it................ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 10:17:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NEHdRn022829 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:17:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NEGv2M041141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:16:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NEHbQ6048380; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:17:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:7VeTblbeK6AT4Xha9YOL4j8kFK7Gdrua@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NEHXBq048330 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j5NEGqkK004857 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:16:52 -0400 Received: from dci012034013068.discovery.com ([12.34.13.68]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49885.12.34.13.68.1119536212.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <000501c577fc$d8e66950$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <000501c577fc$d8e66950$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] grow old dreams From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Costume Con, they sometimes have a video contest - instead of presenting live on a stage, the presentation is filmed in whatever setting they want to do. I don't know if this is a regular feature of costume Con now, but it would be the perfect venue to share your video. I hope you make it - sounds lovely! -Carol > I have dreamed about making a video, yes i did say video ...... music > video > with Jean Phillipe Rammeaus harpsicord piece called "Les barricades > Musterieause" (Mystical barricades) wich i have the feeling is about a > labyrinth, big dangerous labyrinth in an old baroque garden. > 2 ladies and 2 gentlemen have lost eachother in the treaturessed labyrinth > and desperately search eachother. > This i would (in my dream) make to a music video. > They should be dressed in the high fashion of 1680 with tall fontanges and > elaborately beautifull justeocorpses and mantuas with long trains, fans > and > lots of powdered wigs. > Well well we all have our dreams, i dont know if i ever will be able to > make > this, would love to make the costumes for it, and then perhaps sell it to > you? :-) > Dont know who would bother to see it. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 10:42:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NEglBm023045 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:42:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NEatLp043306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NEbZln062072; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:37:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NEbWdF062023 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:37:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x3ef32ff5.boanxx5.adsl.tele.dk [62.243.47.245]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A4012262867 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:36:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c57801$01693660$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:36:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Grow old dreams X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At Costume Con, they sometimes have a video contest - instead of presenting live on a stage, the presentation is filmed in whatever setting they want to do. I don't know if this is a regular feature of costume Con now, but it would be the perfect venue to share your video. I hope you make it - sounds lovely! -Carol Hi Carol, I often read about costume con on this list, but i seldom read it, because it was in USA, and i didnt consider USA as a place i would go to, because of the distance. However prices has decreased for a long period, and the Euro is strong to the Dollar. What is Costume Con, a convention of a kind or a competition? Sorry that i have ben a nerd this topic wise, did´nt bother because USA is so far away.......... Anyway, going away tomorrow for the 2nd. 1700 fair in Denmark, nothing special, most people dresses in peassants costumes, but it is the only time, that something is happening in the small country of Denmark, Bring my big travelling trunk with me, because in this i can have all the boxes with embroidery thread, costumes, embroidery frame and wigs, weighs a ton, but............... Bjarne Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 11:05:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NF5UaA023354 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:05:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NF4dSj045997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:04:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NF5JEI081485; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:05:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NF5Gjq081427 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from moreplentyn@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=bM8pqonFVCgG6v2QGclrFIl3oxPbUEWmWaPkZoaAPM7nJNFuvpZztNdslrN6lGAc; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.167.255.65] (helo=boris) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DlTFp-00034Z-9e for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:04:33 -0400 Message-ID: <023601c57804$f0d35070$0400a8c0@boris> From: "Carmen Beaudry" To: "Historical Costume" References: <000501c577fc$d8e66950$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] grow old dreams Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:05:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 1a4a21053b62758bdb287b3a1c9ea9039ef193a6bfc3dd48aec578ba46b7e165630a42c9a1b597e6f0dc0b2615eb44cc350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.167.255.65 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" (snip) > I have dreamed about making a video, yes i did say video ...... music > video with Jean Phillipe Rammeaus harpsicord piece called "Les barricades > Musterieause" (Mystical barricades) wich i have the feeling is about a > labyrinth, big dangerous labyrinth in an old baroque garden. > 2 ladies and 2 gentlemen have lost eachother in the treaturessed labyrinth > and desperately search eachother. (snip) Bjarne, I'd love to see this. I love Rameau's music, especially this piece. It does sound like a labyrinth. And, while I'm posting, thank you so much for posting your costume pictures. Your work is an inspiration to me. Melusine http://home.earthlink.net/~moreplentyn/melusinescostumes/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 12:57:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NGv0vF024710 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:57:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NGu3NF058828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:56:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NGuAiN066302; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:56:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NGu4hQ066147 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:56:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from alfalfapress.com (c-24-21-147-231.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.147.231]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j5NGtGH23823 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:55:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:58:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Althea Turner To: Costume Historical Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <15AE8B56-E408-11D9-93F1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] black silk embroidery floss X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO hey all, I started a blackwork Eliz coif a couple of years ago. I've moved a couple times since then and can't find my floss to complete the project. My local store no longer carries the brand. And of course, I can't remember the brand. It was wrapped, similarly to DMC, was French (I think). It wasn't the big twisted hanks like, Kreinik, but was a smaller amount. It wasn't in a plastic bag like YLI. It's a long shot, but if anyone knows, it's you folks. :D Thanks! Althea Turner *** althea@alfalfapress.com *** http://www.alfalfapress.com Reunite Pangaea! It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. - Giordano Bruno Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. - Gunn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 15:52:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NJq60a027419 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:52:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NJp63E079090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:51:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NJp4U2002583; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:51:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net (smtp5.suscom.net [64.78.83.238]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MJQYeP070402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C95B510222 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:25:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp5.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 07948-01-4 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourajsk2d7kxx (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8635A51021B for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:25:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <04ae01c57760$2c922c30$c2b6eb40@yourajsk2d7kxx> From: "Dianne and Greg" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4.2.2.20050622113838.00dc92d0@pop.surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:25:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/953/Wed Jun 22 12:36:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend > I just ordered 20 yards of handkerchief-weight 50-50 linen-cotton blend > from Denverfabrics.com for only $1.98 per yard (45" wide). Since my order > has been accepted, I thought I'd share the wealth . Their email > notification has some nice stuff this time. Thanks! Just ordered 10 yards of myself! (Need garb for Pennsic!) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 15:57:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NJvdGT027464 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:57:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NJudBu079784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:56:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NJvMEE007339; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:57:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5MMbCTk023812 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:37:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5MManNs015692 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:36:49 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.73] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-73.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.73]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5MMaWLr489858 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:36:36 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050622145740.0260bf88@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:01:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs In-Reply-To: <42B9D88F.6090208@optonline.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20050622113234.033a6c68@mail.frys.com> <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <200506211739.j5LHb12S036769@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050622113234.033a6c68@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO J Schueller writes, in a message sent 05:30 PM 6/22/2005 -0400: >>BTW, I hear that Brighan Young railed against fly-front trousers, as >>opposed to fall-front ones, as "fornication pants" (when "pants" was the >>word for underpants and "trousers" the word for outerwear). > >what is the differernce between "fly front" and "fall front" in pants? >(can you tell i focus on women's outfits?) Fly front are like the ones Levi's have. Fall front ones have two parallel "fly"s, like on sailor's trousers. (There's probably another name for these.) Anyway, 'access' isn't as convenient with fall front trousers, and Brigham Young was worried about temptation, loose morals, and teenagers in general. Fall front trousers were going out of fashion and fly front ones were the newest thing. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 16:05:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NK5Wfr027568 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:05:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NK4rCE080792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:04:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NK5UvO014970; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NEm7Ex069422 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:48:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7518C4218B for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id F0CDE3975; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] on the influence of weapons use and pockets X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5Cust7AAXeUwEAAAAB,c2e6a20730c5154080396644c7db7839 Message-Id: <20050623144723.F0CDE3975@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For the last nearly 20 years, my *main* criteria for a handbag ( Or purse, as you in the US call it. We call a womans' wallet a purse, unless it actually is a wallet like a man usually carries. ) was that it had to be big enough for a reasonably thick paperback book! I have just recently graduated to a satchel or soft briefcase as I was running out of room for all the other stuff I need to carry. ( See list below.... ) Joannah ( who is currently freezing at 8deg.C / 46.4deg F - which is COLD for Brisbanites - dear God, it even snowed in Guyra, NSW today!) Well, what would an Elizabethan man have kept in his pockets? Let's face it he didn't have even half of what we schlep around on a regular basis. He might have had the apparently requisite handkerchief, maybe a small pouch of coins.....maybe not if he wasn't planning on buying anything....A comb? A rosary or other devotional item? There would not be a wad of credit cards, car keys, cell phone, checkbook, make-up bag, house keys, wallet full of paper money, novel to read at lunch, hairbrush..... and that's just some of the stuff I carry in my purse! Before we decide if there is enough room for a pocket, we need to have some idea of what that pocket might have been intended to contain. Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 16:07:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NK75qQ027581 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:07:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NK6JiM080969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:06:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NK6w54016143; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5NI8tvZ023742 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:08:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 13057 invoked from network); 23 Jun 2005 18:07:48 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:07:48 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1108.67.188.164.116.1119550091.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <15AE8B56-E408-11D9-93F1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> References: <15AE8B56-E408-11D9-93F1-000393C0A652@alfalfapress.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] black silk embroidery floss From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > hey all, > > I started a blackwork Eliz coif a couple of years ago. I've moved a > couple times since then and can't find my floss to complete the > project. My local store no longer carries the brand. And of course, I > can't remember the brand. It was wrapped, similarly to DMC, was French > (I think). It wasn't the big twisted hanks like, Kreinik, but was a > smaller amount. It wasn't in a plastic bag like YLI. > > It's a long shot, but if anyone knows, it's you folks. :D > Thanks! > > Althea Turner Did you already look at www.lacis.com? They carry floss and stuff for embroidery. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 16:07:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NK7Ywp027587 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:07:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NK6gJa081006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NK7NPe016484; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mxsf05.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf05.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NIWjGY042156 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.142]) by mxsf05.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5NIVtIm003598 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:31:56 -0400 Received: from fep01.charter.net (HELO 209.225.8.224) (209.225.8.81) by mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net with SMTP; 23 Jun 2005 14:31:56 -0400 Message-Id: <4403b0$14cq9nm@mxip12a.cluster1.charter.net> X-IronPort-AV: i="3.93,224,1115006400"; d="scan'208"; a="1221404406:sNHT33490058" X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.18 (webedge20-101-1108-20050216) From: To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] black silk embroidery floss Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:31:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.threadexpress.com Has many brands of silk floss. Good luck -annette > > From: Althea Turner > Date: 2005/06/23 Thu PM 12:58:55 EDT > To: Costume Historical > Subject: [h-cost] black silk embroidery floss > > hey all, > > I started a blackwork Eliz coif a couple of years ago. I've moved a > couple times since then and can't find my floss to complete the > project. My local store no longer carries the brand. And of course, I > can't remember the brand. It was wrapped, similarly to DMC, was French > (I think). It wasn't the big twisted hanks like, Kreinik, but was a > smaller amount. It wasn't in a plastic bag like YLI. > > It's a long shot, but if anyone knows, it's you folks. :D > Thanks! > > Althea Turner > *** althea@alfalfapress.com > *** http://www.alfalfapress.com > > Reunite Pangaea! > > It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the > masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth > does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the > people. > - Giordano Bruno > > Oh, good. Symbols on the floor. That always goes well. > - Gunn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 16:18:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NKIP7k027686 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:18:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NKHgaQ082171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:17:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NKI38I024384; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:18:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NKHjxQ024145 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:17:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from dialup-4.245.146.100.dial1.stamford1.level3.net ([4.245.146.100]) by pop-savannah.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DlY8B-0006xx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:17:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v609) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner Subject: Fwd: [h-cost] The Droopy Pants Thing/historic huffs Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:18:38 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.609) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.85.1, clamav-milter version 0.85 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO An old Navy friend of mine said the thirteen buttons (patriotic!) on the fall front of sailor's trousers were nicknamed "thirteen chances to say 'no'." --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > An old Navy friend of mine said the thirteen buttons (patriotic!) on > the fall front of sailor's trousers were nicknamed "thirteen chances > to say 'no'." > > --Ruth Anne Baumgartner > scholar gypsy and amateur costumer > > > On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:01 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> J Schueller writes, in a message sent 05:30 PM 6/22/2005 -0400: >>>> BTW, I hear that Brighan Young railed against fly-front trousers, >>>> as opposed to fall-front ones, as "fornication pants" (when "pants" >>>> was the word for underpants and "trousers" the word for outerwear). >>> >>> what is the differernce between "fly front" and "fall front" in >>> pants? >>> (can you tell i focus on women's outfits?) >> >> Fly front are like the ones Levi's have. Fall front ones have two >> parallel "fly"s, like on sailor's trousers. (There's probably >> another name for these.) Anyway, 'access' isn't as convenient with >> fall front trousers, and Brigham Young was worried about temptation, >> loose morals, and teenagers in general. Fall front trousers were >> going out of fashion and fly front ones were the newest thing. >> >> CarolynKayta Barrows >> dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian >> www.FunStuft.com >> >> //// \\\ >> ////-@@\\\ >> (((( 7 ))) >> ((( <> )))) >> ) (((((( >> /----\ /---\)) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 19:06:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NN6gHs029993 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NN5kus000400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:05:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NN6Seq043873; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NN6QAK043842 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:06:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id g11so439573rne for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:05:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WNatGrkWn8WxFvubrUoOU93Zz6QWqExDjjUwL8eeXhTsXGLoo8orHrI8q2oVS/Wqcj1QtEFykeSNAcVMMQzLt+t59BOjsUSR6MYJwUhiRfcng/0L54PPhfUI2Dp+Mr4aB3YRQdTsAc2GL3tpV87dIK94zDbIjnZNJPgV/Z2urVg= Received: by 10.38.67.28 with SMTP id p28mr1078864rna; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.86.43 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1905062316053677e95e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:05:39 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506230412.j5N4CZs9087019@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200506230412.j5N4CZs9087019@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/955/Thu Jun 23 15:08:42 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/955/Thu Jun 23 15:08:42 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5NN6QAK043842 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Droopy Pants/Historic huff -leather jackets X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lynn Downward" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:41 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing > > > My dad wanted nothing more when he was a teen than to have a black leather > jacket. His mom wouldn't allow it. A brown leather jacket, in the exact same > style, was fine, but he was not allowed to have a black one. My father grew up in the 1950s when black leather jackets were considered biker gear. As such, when my sister wanted a black biker jacket in the 1980s, he was very upset until we explained that the connotations of black leather that he grew up with were passe. > > Dianne Allison T. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 19:14:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5NNEk6o030107 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5NNDxY8001244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:13:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NNEiVn049379; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5NNEebU049347 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:14:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5NNE6Ns004332 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:14:06 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.73] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-73.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.73]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5NNDmc9089362 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:13:53 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050623161250.0349d878@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:13:44 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Droopy Pants/Historic huff -leather jackets In-Reply-To: <7d21ac1905062316053677e95e@mail.gmail.com> References: <200506230412.j5N4CZs9087019@net.indra.com> <200506230412.j5N4CZs9087019@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/955/Thu Jun 23 15:08:42 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.85.1/955/Thu Jun 23 15:08:42 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > My dad wanted nothing more when he was a teen than to have a black leather > > jacket. His mom wouldn't allow it. A brown leather jacket, in the exact > same > > style, was fine, but he was not allowed to have a black one. > >My father grew up in the 1950s when black leather jackets were >considered biker gear. As such, when my sister wanted a black biker >jacket in the 1980s, he was very upset until we explained that the >connotations of black leather that he grew up with were passe. I've seen these jackets in toddler sizes. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 20:23:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5O0NX0W030703 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:23:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5O0MZu7007322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:22:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O0NISW026758; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:23:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.iinet.net.au (mail-03.iinet.net.au [203.59.3.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5O0NC8E026714 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:23:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: (qmail 2859 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2005 00:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) (203.173.2.13) by mail.iinet.net.au with SMTP; 24 Jun 2005 00:22:24 -0000 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:29:24 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Aylwen & John To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <04ae01c57760$2c922c30$c2b6eb40@yourajsk2d7kxx> Message-Id: <03EB2F6F-E447-11D9-AA80-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh dear - they're now sold out - just when I was going to get some. Cheers, Aylwen On Thursday, June 23, 2005, at 05:25 AM, Dianne and Greg wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joan Jurancich" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:41 PM > Subject: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend > > >> I just ordered 20 yards of handkerchief-weight 50-50 linen-cotton >> blend >> from Denverfabrics.com for only $1.98 per yard (45" wide). Since my >> order >> has been accepted, I thought I'd share the wealth . Their email >> notification has some nice stuff this time. > > Thanks! Just ordered 10 yards of myself! (Need garb for Pennsic!) > > Dianne > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 21:04:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5O14pWl030999 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:04:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5O140ui009910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O14k64047169; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:04:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5O14eV7047125 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:04:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-24008); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:01:53 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:01:51 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20050623180229.00e0c2d0@pop.surewest.net> X-Sender: joanmj@pop.surewest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 18:03:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend In-Reply-To: <03EB2F6F-E447-11D9-AA80-000393B11100@earthlydelights.com.a u> References: <04ae01c57760$2c922c30$c2b6eb40@yourajsk2d7kxx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO H-costume members strike again! (Remember Amazon.com.uk and QEWU a few years ago?) Joan At 10:29 AM 6/24/2005 +1000, you wrote: >Oh dear - they're now sold out - just when I was going to get some. >Cheers, Aylwen > >On Thursday, June 23, 2005, at 05:25 AM, Dianne and Greg wrote: > >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Joan Jurancich" >>To: "Historical Costume" >>Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:41 PM >>Subject: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend >> >> >>>I just ordered 20 yards of handkerchief-weight 50-50 linen-cotton blend >>>from Denverfabrics.com for only $1.98 per yard (45" wide). Since my order >>>has been accepted, I thought I'd share the wealth . Their email >>>notification has some nice stuff this time. >> >>Thanks! Just ordered 10 yards of myself! (Need garb for Pennsic!) >> >>Dianne >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 23:15:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5O3FA5E032169 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5O3EFLB032816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:14:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O3EwZB010791; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O3EuBk010770 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD0D40291 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 4C5D07267; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:14:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] grow old dreams X-Originating-Ip: [64.12.116.74] X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRCu3p/AAOcWgEAAAAB,2419c834e15d0ae0e29c0375153d4aaf Message-Id: <20050624031407.4C5D07267@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hope you get to make your music video. If you do, please let us know so we can order it. As for me, at 70 I am finally living my high school dream of doing make-up for a movie. Well, it is an Indy film that a friend is making on the cheap and I made the monster costumes too, but doing special effects make-up is something I always wanted to do. I never wanted to be an actress - I just wanted to do make-up, and later costumes. Now I am doing both and having a wonderful time even if it is just an independent horror movie that will go straight to video/DVDs. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:07:05 +0200 To: Subject: [h-cost] grow old dreams Hi, sorry that i drop the droppy pants thing, i passed long ago. I was wondering about you all out there, what are your dreams when you (hopefully grow sain and helthy old) I have dreamed about making a video, yes i did say video ...... music video with Jean Phillipe Rammeaus harpsicord piece called "Les barricades Musterieause" (Mystical barricades) wich i have the feeling is about a labyrinth, big dangerous labyrinth in an old baroque garden. 2 ladies and 2 gentlemen have lost eachother in the treaturessed labyrinth and desperately search eachother. This i would (in my dream) make to a music video. They should be dressed in the high fashion of 1680 with tall fontanges and elaborately beautifull justeocorpses and mantuas with long trains, fans and lots of powdered wigs. Well well we all have our dreams, i dont know if i ever will be able to make this, would love to make the costumes for it, and then perhaps sell it to you? :-) Dont know who would bother to see it. Perhaps i should embroider it in stead in a big wall hanging.................. What is your dreams like?????? Sorry i broke your droopy pants thing. I for one thing dont mind, i use to go to a nude beach every summer, without any threads on, love it................ Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 23 23:30:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5O3UuUR032261 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5O3UAmX036737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:30:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O3UvCl019494; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m16.mx.aol.com (imo-m16.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O3UsRN019433 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:30:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.67.47867df3 (4552) for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:29:58 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <67.47867df3.2fecd835@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:29:57 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/23/2005 9:04:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, joanmj@surewest.net writes: > H-costume members strike again! (Remember Amazon.com.uk and QEWU a few > years ago?) > Yeah....but check out the Italian linen twill. Nice classy bodice linings or corset fabric. 60 wide.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 01:58:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5O5wZO9000617 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:58:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5O5vYWG059303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:57:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O5wLII083264; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:58:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O5wHwb083237 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:58:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j5O5vOZ8013511 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:57:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050624004242.02c927b0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 00:44:12 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT, but someone may know In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20050622232103.01b1e398@pop.hvi.net> References: <200506221800.j5MI0b7S044544@net.indra.com> <200506221800.j5MI0b7S044544@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could it be a miserichord (sp)? I seem to remember seeing one from northern Europe that looked like that. If you did a search you might turn up something... Cheers, Danielle At 11:25 PM 6/22/2005 -0400, you wrote: >There are people here who spend much more time than I do looking at works >of art: maybe someone will recognize this piece. > >A patron at my library is trying to identify the original of a wood >carving (fairly deep relief panel) he has a replica of. I said I'd try. > >It's a man, looking around a door (and out of the frame). He holds a set >of sheep shears, which is why this man's father told him the piece was >called "The Sheep Shearer." His hair is chopped off square at chin-length >and he wears that ubiquitous medieval brimmed "cap." He's got an angular >face and looks rather northern European to me. > >Very little to go on, but does anyone have any ideas? > >Jo Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 07:15:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OBF3Dj001926 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:15:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OBE8KF007527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:14:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OBEtMS015397; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:14:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5O9erra076612 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 03:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp107.pop1.net [209.102.125.157]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA16799 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:43:33 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp107.pop1.net [209.102.125.157] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <42BBD4CB.2040801@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:39:23 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pounce X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings everyone, For the longest time, I have been researching about period embroidery and how patterns were transferred to fabric. Could someone tell me what exactly what the powder (pounce) was? Where I could buy or how I may make it? And did they use a dark colored one for light color fabric and possibly a light colored one for dark fabric? I'm planning on teaching a period embroidery set-up class this fall to several of my students - and show it as a demo to public observers at Faires. Thanks for your assistance. Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 08:54:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OCsSm2002741 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:54:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OCrZHa018122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:53:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OCsP6U059440; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:54:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net (smtp4.suscom.net [64.78.119.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OCsLdP059344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:54:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 911791501F0 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:53:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp4.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp4.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 07323-01-61 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:53:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from yourajsk2d7kxx (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp4.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EC88415005D for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005401c578bb$aacc7270$c2b6eb40@yourajsk2d7kxx> From: "Dianne and Greg" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200506230412.j5N4CZs9087019@net.indra.com> <7d21ac1905062316053677e95e@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Droopy Pants/Historic huff -leather jackets Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:53:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "A. Thurman" To: Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: [h-cost] Droopy Pants/Historic huff -leather jackets > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lynn Downward" > > To: "Historical Costume" > > Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: The Droopy Pants Thing > > > > > > My dad wanted nothing more when he was a teen than to have a black leather > > jacket. His mom wouldn't allow it. A brown leather jacket, in the exact same > > style, was fine, but he was not allowed to have a black one. > > My father grew up in the 1950s when black leather jackets were > considered biker gear. As such, when my sister wanted a black biker > jacket in the 1980s, he was very upset until we explained that the > connotations of black leather that he grew up with were passe. I'm sure that was my grandma's reasoning as well, as my dad was a teen in the late 50's. Dianne > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 10:50:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OEotSg003747 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:50:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OEo1IB034763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:50:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OEomx1027790; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:50:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5OEoiuZ027678 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBM2HM3AJFX46S for (sender ); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhguEbrc7+AEFyjNPpAYkEJc4= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KV938VKK; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:49:04 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:48:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce Message-ID: <20050624.074852.220.2.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-7,9-33 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 12:6:312728629 X-MAIL-INFO: 3ccc55e555d5197dd5194508194518593871682191e8719cb58d91a19c3c8c4d9c0d6c15cc81ccec7945e919cc08 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi! I recall reading a reference that it was sometimes made of cuttlebone. This is going to sound wierd, but I suppose you could buy a cuttlebone such as pet suppliers have for birds and grind it to a powder. Arlys On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 02:39:23 -0700 Rose Amberwulf writes: > Greetings everyone, > > For the longest time, I have been researching about period > embroidery > and how patterns were transferred to fabric. Could someone tell me > what > exactly what the powder (pounce) was? Where I could buy or how I > may > make it? And did they use a dark colored one for light color fabric > and > possibly a light colored one for dark fabric? I'm planning on > teaching > a period embroidery set-up class this fall to several of my students > - > and show it as a demo to public observers at Faires. > Thanks for your assistance. > > Roscelin > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 12:02:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OG2lrQ004421 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:02:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OG1mhV054020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:01:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OG2bsF079245; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:02:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OG2WQI079085 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:02:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.8]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:59:46 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Pounce Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:01:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <20050624.074852.220.2.Cley@juno.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcV4zM7pwfvxXcfJRyKK6lWIm103pgACOVTQ Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2005 15:59:46.0502 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE3DDE60:01C578D5] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That does not sound weird at all, merely practical- I buy rawhide and bone doggie chews from the pet aisle to get , well, bone and rawhide. All clean and ready to go. Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Cynthia J Ley Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:49 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce Hi! I recall reading a reference that it was sometimes made of cuttlebone. This is going to sound wierd, but I suppose you could buy a cuttlebone such as pet suppliers have for birds and grind it to a powder. Arlys h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 12:15:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OGF4JU004542 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:15:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OGEGd5059488 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OGF9ua089518; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OGF3SS089342 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:14:03 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:13:47 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pounce X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could someone tell me what exactly what the powder (pounce) was? Where I could buy or how I may make it? And did they use a dark colored one for light color fabric and possibly a light colored one for dark fabric? Roscelin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I have heard of cuttlebone, also ground charcoal. You can get both a light and a dark pounce from Skinnersisters however: http://www.skinnersisters.com/other/ Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 12:49:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OGnFJb004951 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:49:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OGm8mk070158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:48:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OGn21T016428; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from captain.concentric.com (captain.concentric.com [207.155.252.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OGmvOI016370 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:48:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by captain.concentric.com id MAA19569; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:47:58 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506241647.MAA19569@captain.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 09:47:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506241602.j5OG2eGI079290@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5OGmvOI016370 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pounce X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did an embroidery demo recently. Today pounce seems to be mainly used by quilters and I bought a quilter's pounce w/ powder from a quilting specialty vendor. In period they used charcoal and ground up cuttlefish bone and applied it with a rolled up piece of felt used like a stomper/tamper. I made two pouncers - one for light, one for dark, and used wooden bowls. I showed the cuttlefish bone but I bought white chalk at a hardware store (used for snapping chalk lines). Much cheaper than in sewing stores and I didn't bother grinding the cuttlefish bone. There is a nice recreationist article on embroidery that I used as my main resource. I think it's on the V&A web site, but of course I can't find the link. Julie ---- wrote: > > For the longest time, I have been researching about period embroidery > and how patterns were transferred to fabric. Could someone tell me what > exactly what the powder (pounce) was? Where I could buy or how I may > make it? And did they use a dark colored one for light color fabric and > possibly a light colored one for dark fabric? I'm planning on teaching > a period embroidery set-up class this fall to several of my students - > and show it as a demo to public observers at Faires. > Thanks for your assistance. > > Roscelin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 12:54:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OGstId005032 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OGsE6v071100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:54:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OGt7dO020858; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from tomts40-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts40.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.97]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OGt3RQ020802 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:55:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dluckham@sympatico.ca) Received: from Main.sympatico.ca ([65.94.249.86]) by tomts40-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050624165407.TODT1799.tomts40-srv.bellnexxia.net@Main.sympatico.ca> for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:54:07 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20050624125231.00b72b68@pop8.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1jerw63@pop8.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:53:49 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Dawn Luckham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pounce X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I attended a demo several months ago where Cinnamon was used as pounce. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 14:10:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OIAVHX005892 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:10:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OI9UcP084187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OIAJT6077674; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:10:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5OIAClc077590 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:10:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [66.179.109.174] (HELO p01i174.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.9.0-24p5) with SMTP id 15c4cb24.1113541552.20984.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14150 invoked from network); 24 Jun 2005 18:09:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com) (199.184.176.8) by p01i174.mxlogic.net with SMTP; 24 Jun 2005 18:09:16 -0000 Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:08:55 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:08:56 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F5C7@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: Pounce Thread-Index: AcV45p4pevcAAYnRR5KJWLOZgPQVBQAANGhg From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2005 18:08:56.0030 (UTC) FILETIME=[C951FFE0:01C578E7] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005051801)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [66.179.109.174] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5OIAClc077590 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pounce X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO One small caveat with grinding cuttlefish, or bone of any sort. Be sure to mask yourself, as the powder can damage lungs and eyes during the grinding process. Wouldn't want anyone to be able to do a 13th century 'blind beggar' costume TOO well, would we? Kate McClure aka StitchWitch Beads? What beads . . . ? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 14:19:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OIJp8h005967 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:19:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OIIxAi085756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:18:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OIJsBd084247; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:19:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OIJnoF084118 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:19:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.48.165.252]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050624181847.RMIL1005.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:18:47 -0400 Message-ID: <017601c578e8$e4f5ffc0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050624.074852.220.2.Cley@juno.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:16:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce > Hi! I recall reading a reference that it was sometimes made of > cuttlebone. > > This is going to sound wierd, but I suppose you could buy a cuttlebone > such as pet suppliers have for birds and grind it to a powder. > > Arlys This is actually quite easy to do, my husband and I were using cuttlebone for casting pewter recently, you can scrape it into powder with minimal effort. Hmm, now I know what to do with all of the leftover bits... Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 14:28:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OISFmV006039 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:28:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OIRZ8h087252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OISSo6090278; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:28:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OISMxx090200 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:28:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id OAA07928; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:27:26 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200506241827.OAA07928@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:27:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200506241800.j5OI0KXD070104@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/956/Fri Jun 24 05:10:27 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5OISMxx090200 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Pounce X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting. I like that idea better than charcoal. What a mess! Julie ---- wrote: > I attended a demo several months ago where Cinnamon was used as pounce. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 16:24:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OKOBHo007339 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OKNJFX009696 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:23:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OKOAqP074981; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5OKO6e4074864 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:24:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBM245PALWMMQA for (sender ); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:22:05 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgonOEABIiJeW2mL9aJ8oJlc= Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KWAN8S67; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:21:05 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:20:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce Message-ID: <20050624.132030.520.3.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-8 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:3:4279681059 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've heard of cinnamon being used as pounce in modern ecclesiastical embroideries. Arlys On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:53:49 -0400 Dawn Luckham writes: > I attended a demo several months ago where Cinnamon was used as > pounce. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 18:25:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5OMPcdZ008543 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:25:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5OMOdJ7025879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:24:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OMPT7h053470; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:25:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m22.mx.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OMPPjX053354 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:25:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.77.4828ffce (18403) for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:24:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <77.4828ffce.2fede211@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:24:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: pounce X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As said in previous replies, traditionally pounce was powdered cuttlefish for dark fabrics, and powdered charcoal for light (coloured) fabrics. Royal School of Needlework still teach using cuttlefish and charcoal (although personally I cheat, and save the shavings from my tailors chalk sharpener). Debs. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jun 24 22:46:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5P2k6gU010790 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:46:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5P2jGD7052106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5P2kD8Y073790; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:46:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wombat.hvi.net (mail.hvi.net [64.72.88.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5P2k9oF073709 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:46:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanne@jafath.com) Received: from joanne.jafath.com (unverified [66.6.181.1]) by wombat.hvi.net (Vircom SMTPRS 4.0.340.3) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:45:07 -0400 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.0.20050624224317.01c97088@pop.hvi.net> X-Sender: jafath@pop.hvi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:44:56 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jo Anne Fatherly Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT, but someone may know In-Reply-To: <200506241602.j5OG2eGI079290@net.indra.com> References: <200506241602.j5OG2eGI079290@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I said: >> There are people here who spend much more time than I do looking at >> works of art: maybe someone will recognize this piece. [snip] >>Very little to go on, but does anyone have any ideas? And Sue said: >I don't have a clue, but someone on another list might. Do you mind if > I forward this? And then Kayta said: >Indeed - very little to go on without an image. Is one possible? So I now respond: Sure, send it to anyone you think might have a clue. I wish I had a scan of it, but he was reluctant to let the piece out of his possession and I don't have a scanner at work. Jo Anne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 25 06:02:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5PA2fhL010965 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:02:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5PA1k5X087461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:01:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PA2h3Z043206; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:02:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from galaxy.systems.pipex.net (galaxy.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.31]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PA2c0h043151 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:02:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from linda.walton@dsl.pipex.com) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (81-86-114-151.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.114.151]) by galaxy.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AC83E0001AF for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:01:27 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42BD2BA9.20206@dsl.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:02:17 +0100 From: Linda Walton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <77.4828ffce.2fede211@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <77.4828ffce.2fede211@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Celebration X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have a look at this great event in Tartu http://www.tartu.ee/hansa/main.php?lang=en - four days living in the days of the Hanseatic League. (And I see that the places to visit include the Beer Museum!) Best wishes, Linda Walton, (in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K., - but wishing I was in Tartu). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 25 06:56:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5PAubW1013845 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:56:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5PAtnP5001911 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:55:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PAuqBV065450; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:56:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from smtp.gssf.org (root@smtp.gssf.org [209.102.124.32]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OLjdMe029233 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from roscelin@pcez.com) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pdx-ppp455.pop1.net [209.102.126.55]) by smtp.gssf.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA02649 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:48:09 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp.gssf.org: Host pdx-ppp455.pop1.net [209.102.126.55] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Message-ID: <42BC7E9F.3080804@pcez.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:43:59 -0700 From: Rose Amberwulf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce References: <20050624.074852.220.2.Cley@juno.com> <017601c578e8$e4f5ffc0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <017601c578e8$e4f5ffc0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Same here Sheridan. We are planning to teach a class on pewter casting one day soon. Actually I should have thought of that for this coming weekend. But right now I am dealing with an aunt who is on her death bed and a day full of classes (Ithra type) this Sunday. Anyway, can anyone head me to the right book that I may use as documentation for my research on the use of cuttlebone and/or charcoal as pounce? Roscelin Shane & Sheridan wrote: >This is actually quite easy to do, my husband and I were using cuttlebone >for casting pewter recently, you can scrape it into powder with minimal >effort. > >Hmm, now I know what to do with all of the leftover bits... > >Sheridan > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 25 06:57:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5PAvTVG013851 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:57:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5PAup3H001996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:56:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PAvt2s065878; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 04:57:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5OMYXGM058536 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from 209-165-40-086.jps.net ([209.165.40.86] helo=[209.165.40.164]) by pop06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Dlwju-0002Ch-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:33:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200506241827.OAA07928@alexander.concentric.com> References: <200506241827.OAA07928@alexander.concentric.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:13:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:27 AM -0700 6/24/05, Julie wrote: >Interesting. I like that idea better than charcoal. What a mess! >Julie >---- wrote: > > I attended a demo several months ago where Cinnamon was used as pounce. Just test whatever you use to make sure it won't stain the fabric if it gets wet. That's one advantage of charcoal. It's always worth testing anything you plan to use for marking -- ancient or modern -- to make sure it will mark clearly, stay put as long as you need it, and be easy to remove afterwards. Even plain white chalk can be a &%!@#%*$! nuisance if you happen to pick a chalk with very fine particles that are hard to brush out of a fuzzy fabric. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 25 10:29:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5PETv65015147 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:29:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5PESvet019344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:28:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PEU0Lg046668; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:30:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PETvBs046646 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:29:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 663AE3FC18 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 569C6387A6; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:28:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tuxedo/tails pattern needed X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5CvWoiAAO30AEAAAAB,9b124808e11d5bc1c8d6d763b7fd0095 Message-Id: <20050625142850.569C6387A6@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry if this is a bit late, but here are some other patterns you might like to think about: http://www.agelesspatterns.com/men_2.htm - scroll down the page to 1860's Men's Tailcoat, Waistcoat and Trousers http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B3648=x&TI=10013&page=7 http://store.sewingtoday.com/cgi-bin/butterick/shop.cgi?s.item.B3556=x&TI=10013&page=8 http://sewing.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.longago.com%2F - scroll down to 1890 Evening Suit http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M8701.htm?tab=costumes&page=6 Of the commercial patterns, my personal preference is either the first Butterick pattern, or the McCalls pattern. ( But that's just my opinion. ) Hope this helps. Joannah --- "Megan M." wrote: From: "Megan M." Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:26:06 -0400 To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tuxedo/tails pattern needed Thanks for the suggestion. I looked up Jean Hardy on the web, plus I went to G-Street today and found that Folkwear has a frock coat, plus the prince Charlie jacket in the kilt pattern is not too far off, so I think I may use those. There is also a Suitability shadbelly that is pretty close. So, somewhere between these three is the jacket I have in mind.... unless I find an actual tails pattern before I get around to making it. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 25 11:12:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5PFCefm015335 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5PFBp6b022555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:11:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PFCvfi063397; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:12:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PFCsHD063380 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:12:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27769 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:30:43 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 09:30:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] slightly OT, but someone may know In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050624004242.02c927b0@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 24 Jun 2005, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > Could it be a miserichord (sp)? I seem to remember seeing one from > northern Europe that looked like that. If you did a search you might > turn up something... A misericord was my first thought too; if I saw it I might know for sure, since there's a certain shape/structure to these designs, but since it's a reproduction it might just have the carved part of the design. There are many hundreds of misericords, many not reproduced anywhere yet. However, there's a misericord scholar named Elaine Block who has been doing a series of books cataloging known misericords by subject matter. Volumes so far cover France and Spain: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/2503512399 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/2503514995 Alas, the volumes for Northern Europe and Britain have not yet been published. These are extraordinarily expensive books, but they might be in a university library within reach, in which case your patron might be able to look them over. I believe each volume has indexes by theme, though ultimately the fifth volume in the series will index all of them together. At least your patron could look at some misericord images (in these books or in others; they are, however, not easy to find) and tell right off whether the carving is of the appropriate size and proportion to possibly be from a misericord. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 25 12:15:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5PGF3X5015708 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:15:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5PGE2Yo027637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PGF8L6088436; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:15:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web52205.mail.yahoo.com (web52205.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5PGF6Yb088396 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 10:15:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from edithreardon@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 41763 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jun 2005 16:13:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=vbCxomH0CfhPvUWF34S45uFu4zGEHtP3UdHV6lxWcN4YGe5eh2EWET3GbnKOjKtO1THWyCmiuIVSGAtqEyuO6dDHtP+BngloEJ72D78d250DAoScaMLAg5zpKioKGaMCkszdYWZMwyIqXBTgpmrlbmsuDJMXAITwu0gjh0h1ViM= ; Message-ID: <20050625161353.41761.qmail@web52205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [206.116.66.83] by web52205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:13:53 EDT Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 12:13:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Edith Reardon Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <04ae01c57760$2c922c30$c2b6eb40@yourajsk2d7kxx> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Darn my computer was down for a couple of days and now the fabric is all gone. Boo! Hoo! Brin Kendall Dianne and Greg wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sale on light-weight linen-cotton blend > I just ordered 20 yards of handkerchief-weight 50-50 linen-cotton blend > from Denverfabrics.com for only $1.98 per yard (45" wide). Since my order > has been accepted, I thought I'd share the wealth . Their email > notification has some nice stuff this time. Thanks! Just ordered 10 yards of myself! (Need garb for Pennsic!) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Jun 25 19:49:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5PNnpe0018611 for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5PNn1fB064214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:49:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PNo6VT072900; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:50:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5PNo1Wn072812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:50:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 9621 invoked by uid 507); 26 Jun 2005 09:48:48 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 26 Jun 2005 09:48:48 +1000 Message-ID: <020001c579e0$6d242e10$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200506241827.OAA07928@alexander.concentric.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:48:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chris wrote: > It's always worth testing anything you plan to use for marking -- > ancient or modern -- to make sure it will mark clearly, stay put as long > as you need it, and be easy to remove afterwards. Even plain white chalk > can be a &%!@#%*$! nuisance if you happen to pick a chalk with very fine > particles that are hard to brush out of a fuzzy fabric. > -- However, I've seen many original 16th-17th century pieces in Museums (in my case in Bath, Nottingham and the V&A) that have the patterns drawn on with ink, and where a piece has been missed, there's still an ink mark 350-400 years later! I no longer worry about the possibility of marks not coming off. In related items: I handsew most of the reenactment clothing for my family. To make seams easier when sewing linen items I get a 5B pencil and draw my line on one part of the linen (the part that's going to be on the inside of the finished seam, where I fold over twice and hem/running stitch). I've never had a problem with show through and later when I've had to repair things, I've not seen anything left of the original pencil lines. And it makes sewing a straight seam SO quick! I also iron all my hems before I sew to reduce sewing time. Glenda. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 26 14:39:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5QIdTlI007197 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 14:39:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5QIcSJK062563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Jun 2005 12:38:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5QIdjSj080934; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 12:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5QIdfnC080905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 12:39:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-84.sonic.net [209.148.113.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5QIcIT8007639 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:38:18 -0700 Message-ID: <42BEF61F.50601@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:38:23 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/957/Fri Jun 24 19:17:57 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Anybody want to string 1-2 necklaces? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You know those 1950s or 1960s chokers made of what I believe to be clear, facted rock crystal beads, coated with something to make them iridescent? Years ago, at a vintage clothing show, I bought a long 1920s style necklace that someone probably put together from several of the chokers. It was heavy, the person who strung it did not use strong enough thread and did not knot between the beads, and one time it broke and beads burst all over the floor. I put the beads I could collect in a little bowl. Then, more recently, I inherited one of the chokers from my mother. I tried it on, and beads burst all over the floor. I put the ones I could collect in the same bowl. So anyway, I need someone who can string either a long necklace or a long necklace plus the choker (depending on how many beads are left) in a professional way, with knots between the beads and no empty thread showing between the beads as I see in amateur stringing jobs. Is anyone on the list up to doing this for reasonable pay in a reasonable time frame? Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Jun 26 22:57:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5R2vbnC010624 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5R2tAPx099856 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:55:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5R2tcl9072644; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:55:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5R2tYMc072612 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:55:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6574F41F9B for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 295D6394F; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:54:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 397 X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5Cv2pJAA4xQAEAAAAB,40174f4f60fe6970dce33d027fc7b940 Message-Id: <20050627025401.295D6394F@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/958/Sun Jun 26 16:22:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/958/Sun Jun 26 16:22:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any pictures that we could have a look at? I'd be really interested to see your Roman garb - I play with a Roman group here in Brisbane sometimes. Joannah. --- Aurelia Rufinia wrote: From: Aurelia Rufinia Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:18:54 -0700 (PDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 397 I make *all* of my Roman garb the width of the fabric, so most of it is around 54". Any shaping is done with belts or draping. The ionic chintons I make as wide as my armspan, and use a minorly complecated belting method to shape them. Aurelia ------------- *nice* Based on this, my chiton is way to "wide" and looks to perhaps be the primary reason I'm not satisfied with it. How "big" should one be -- or what's a good rule of thumb I guess -- widest measurement plus ????? Baroness Aurelia Rufinia House Iron Maiden, Barony of Carolingia, East Kingdom, Northshield Ex-Pat "We're always fascinated when we find leg irons with no legs in them. Who held the keys, sir?" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 01:24:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5R5OwNE012731 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 01:24:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5R5O9ns011196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:24:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5R5PXqT034322; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5R5PUF3034298 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:25:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FEF4151A for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id C0C4837DD2; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:24:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5Cv41yAAs0UAEAAAAB,a77b30bff858080b649ed9cf29ed6c7f Message-Id: <20050627052402.C0C4837DD2@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/958/Sun Jun 26 16:22:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/958/Sun Jun 26 16:22:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was watching the DVD of a concert tour called 'Scotland the Brave' and there was one young fellow who *was* wearing his kilt 'low rider' style. He wasn't wearing the Prince Charlie sort of outfit, but just 'poet' style shirt, kilt, plaid over one shoulder, long socks ( can't remember if they were plain or plaid patterned ) and brogues. And long hair. The ensemble really would have looked very nice, except for the low-slung kilt, which just made him look odd, and slightly deformed. :-) Just goes to show how pervasive the whole 'low rider' thing is. I have also seen the young girls who work in McDonalds and Hungry Jacks ( our version of Burger King ) wearing their work trousers low rider style. Joannah --- Jean Waddie wrote: Are you telling me they are wearing kilts at "low rider" level? Eeuuughhhh! Thank goodness that hasn't travelled over here. I feel quite ill! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 05:26:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5R9Qviw000608 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 05:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5R9PxCB038954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 03:26:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5R9RPhW018988; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 03:27:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5R5eO9O039870 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:40:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAF242484 for ; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 72EB737CE9; Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:38:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5Cv5DwAAZxSQEAAAAB,ec8249f3a5b01033c91c5c55ece95236 Message-Id: <20050627053856.72EB737CE9@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/958/Sun Jun 26 16:22:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My husband had a discussion last year with one of our much younger friends ( he was 36 and she just 21 at the time ) about her horror over the fact that natural waistlines in trousers are coming back ( albeit slowly ). She has never worn anything *but* hipster jeans/trousers and thought that the natural waistline was just not right _and_ made her her bum look big! :-) ( She is tall and slender and very nicely proportioned ) He made the point that as soon as natural waistlines became mainstream fashion again, she would be wearing them and wondering what she ever thought was so great about hipsters! She wasn't convinced, but then, she is still quite young. Joannah >snip --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: I smile at things like low-rider jeans, which I merely don't like, and hope somebody shows these guys blackmail photos of themselves when they get to be suit-wearing middle-aged businessmen. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 08:51:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RCpHjQ016323 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:51:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RCoDak051844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:50:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RCpffQ093382; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:51:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RCpaaK093355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hope.greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from [132.198.104.191] (ip104191.uvm.edu [132.198.104.191]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5RCo4Vv031062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:50:04 -0400 Message-ID: <42BFF5FC.8040300@uvm.edu> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:50:04 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants References: <20050627053856.72EB737CE9@sitemail.everyone.net> In-Reply-To: <20050627053856.72EB737CE9@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joannah Hansen wrote: > He made the point that as soon as natural waistlines became mainstream fashion again, she would be wearing them and wondering what she ever thought was so great about hipsters! She wasn't convinced, but then, she is still quite young. > >Joannah > > Hey it's not just the young! I have no hips to speak of--waist/hip measurement much closer to each other than the feminine "ideal", so if I buy regular women's pants that fit me around the waist, they are usually wide enough around the rear-end to look like clown pants. Plus I have a fairly low rise so if I don't want them hanging/bagging a foot below the crotch I have to pull them practically up to my chin. The low-rise pants and jeans (not super low rise, just moderate) have been a godsend--finally pants that fit right!! Mandatory historic costume comment: one of the most fun things about doing costume for re-enactment is that you can experiment with, and then choose, a style that actually works with your body type. - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 10:19:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5REJeE3017455 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:19:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5REGdMQ060004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:16:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5REI9nt041831; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:18:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5REI4SN041719 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:18:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.e2.1659ecde (25098) for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:16:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:16:21 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/27/2005 5:27:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Joannah@sluggy.net writes: the natural waistline was just not right Natural waistline? Like where men wore their trousers in the 1950s? Y'know above the navel....a little below the rib cage? That's the last time I remember a natural" waistline. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 11:34:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RFYtd2018556 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RFXnDG070882 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:33:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RFZI8P002693; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:35:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com (mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com [66.192.123.47]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RFZB8S002582 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from adelaide@genevahistoricalsociety.com) Received: from [192.168.0.5] [24.39.235.120] by mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id AB873AC00EC; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:30:15 -0400 Message-ID: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:32:42 -0400 From: Anne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.1) Gecko/20040707 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Small Museum Costume Program X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have not posted before, but hoped that the list might provide me with some opinions regarding a program I am considering. I am an educator at a small American museum of local history with a considerable costume collection (about 2000 pieces). We have only 6 full time staff and 1 curator, a generalist who is not well-versed in costume history. We occasionally use costumes in our exhibits, but have not done any costume-specific exhibits since our current curator and I came on board 5 years ago. That said, I am very interested in costume, though my professional training is not in that area, and I would like to offer a program to our community/region featuring items from our collection and general information about costume history. My experience from this list and the many costumers who blog is that there are many out there who would love to see the material in our collection. We had a costume historian inventory some of our collection and present a program some years ago, but we cannot afford to have her come again, so our curator and I are thinking of presenting something ourselves. I have in mind a general program for people interested in "old clothing" and close-up views of items from the collection for the more knowledgeable. I do not want to pass myself off as an expert, but I know there are reenactors and others who would be interested in seeing what we have and that those who know nothing would find my research interesting. As costumers and researchers, what would you think of such a program in your area? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Anne Anne Dealy adelaide@genevahistoricalsociety.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 12:06:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RG6DKk019070 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:06:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RG5D7Y074729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:05:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RG6S5k028031; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:06:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RG6D2O027754 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.48.166.209]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050627160434.TYVG28065.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:04:34 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c57b32$4d29e660$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050627053856.72EB737CE9@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:05:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joannah Hansen" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants > My husband had a discussion last year with one of our much younger friends ( he was 36 and she just 21 at the time ) about her horror over the fact that natural waistlines in trousers are coming back ( albeit slowly ). > Joannah > I'm not too terribly pleased either, but from a comfort standpoint. I never liked the natural waistline style in jeans, I always found it very uncomfortable. (I'm 32, and grew up with the style) Looks like I'll be going back to buying mens jeans for myself. :-) Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 12:19:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RGJQRO019233 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:19:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RGIcAL076271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:18:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RGIvPk037746; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RGHkQX036749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:17:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-11.sonic.net [209.148.114.11]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RFnEHt017005 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:49:14 -0700 Message-ID: <42C01FFF.1010003@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:49:19 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Small Museum Costume Program References: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> In-Reply-To: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Well, you know no one on a historic costuming list will vote against a prospective historic costuming exhibit! Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costume http://www.lavoltapress.com Anne wrote: > I have not posted before, but hoped that the list might provide me > with some opinions regarding a program I am considering. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 12:38:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RGcO08019546 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:38:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RGbCGY078475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:37:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RGcgVF053374; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:38:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5RGcZ7Y053187 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 99665 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jun 2005 16:36:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VhK5PmoGBXqXb347yS64KSckouZgTt3e/Z+LWAzZgJe9Qu45CSCkXz0anxMG41kYIpXIyICkH+FxxdwQsuleqbgace1t/G+lZXXIzHkyHD+Ol0x6ttYszeuSH8PhzErJvPgk7SW52w0/EJoicOBJvJpWW87nMeEqqkWOc1vaK9w= ; Message-ID: <20050627163656.99663.qmail@web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.14] by web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:36:56 PDT Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:36:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: [h-cos } pants........ what a "waist" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ah yes, men dressing like men, didn't Clark Gable and Errol Flynn always look so "matty" and well groomed? Wish guys dressed like that again,,, not cut off shorts that were once dress pants and a holey white T shirt and baseball cap. I miss 1940's even (if i wasn't even thought of yet) I always have a discussion about "where" a guys waistline is with my DH, I say above the hips @ the navel, DH says on hip bones, so I then counter with "so then where are your hips?" It begins to sound like "who's on first" Then he'll pull his dress pants up to his armpits and say "there are you happy?" Maybe we should just eliminate the word "waist" from mens dialogue. - > In a message dated 6/27/2005 5:27:12 A.M. Eastern > Standard Time, > Joannah@sluggy.net writes: > > the natural waistline was just not right > > > Natural waistline? Like where men wore their > trousers in the 1950s? Y'know > above the navel....a little below the rib cage? > That's the last time I remember > a > natural" waistline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 12:52:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RGqPV1019828 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:52:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RGpGD6080204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:51:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RGqlLo064368; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:52:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RGqaFv064190 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:52:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IIR00J5H5JCQ2G0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:52:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.35] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.66.149]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:50:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:50:57 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4549b344549680.45496804549b34@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Roman garb - Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 397 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My chiton is 3 widths of 45" fabric.Sewn into a tube shape. This makes it wrist length for me - before tying it on. Then I sewed buttons on the top for the 'seam' - I then use a 'Cross-Your-Heart Bra' design to tie it to my body. This makes the sleeves elbow-ish length and very comfortable. I used 3 widths because that is what made a wrist to wrist tube. I can use a piece of 45" wide fabric for a basic roman outfit as I am a ladie's sz 10. Katheryne. ----- Original Message ----- > --- Aurelia Rufinia wrote: > I make *all* of my Roman garb the width of the fabric, > so most of it is around 54". Any shaping is done with > belts or draping. The ionic chintons I make as wide > as my armspan, and use a minorly complecated belting > method to shape them. > > Aurelia > > ------------- > *nice* Based on this, my chiton is way to "wide" and > looks to perhaps be the primary reason I'm not satisfied with it. How > "big" should one be -- or what's a good rule of thumb I guess -- widest > measurement plus ????? > > Baroness Aurelia Rufinia _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 12:59:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RGxlW0019970 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:59:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RGwwu2081255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:58:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RH0RWL070573; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:00:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omc1-s2.bay6.hotmail.com (omc1-s2.bay6.hotmail.com [65.54.248.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RH0N7N070449 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:00:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.161.95]) by omc1-s2.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:58:44 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:58:44 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.204 by BAY106-DAV23.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:58:44 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.204] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42BBD4CB.2040801@pcez.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pounce Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:53:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2005 16:58:44.0476 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A471BC0:01C57B39] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > For the longest time, I have been researching about period embroidery > and how patterns were transferred to fabric. Could someone tell me what > exactly what the powder (pounce) was? Where I could buy or how I may make > it? You can buy some, and there's also some info on how to use it at http://www.berlinembroidery.com/ . Probably many, many other places as well... Basically you punch holes in your pattern, lay it over your fabric, then brush some powder on top of it all. It falls through the holes in your pattern and voilà! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 13:02:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RH2ftT020029 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:02:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RH1u5w081647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:01:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RH3Sce073012; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:03:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RH3OHF072896 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:03:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i24so429477wra for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=l1moJokbKIwys9DxiWQR7yedWXEowWRyEwjutzOsewN/dQMjt0kvuulShjO7nUtX7zfvpeE0KexLx0UOXK55TQh2WxDGZaxH5xlFSXeU9gQZrooe/mA001PGPjVn+pqrDL74WYlw8zaXmwk+a3B8LJcprKhHcv8N2CG/IvLm5S4= Received: by 10.54.15.38 with SMTP id 38mr2733719wro; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.62 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05062710016f65fdef@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:01:43 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [h-cos } pants........ what a "waist" In-Reply-To: <20050627163656.99663.qmail@web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050627163656.99663.qmail@web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5RH3OHF072896 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh for a dollar for every time I've had this discussion! And this amongst people who have worn costumes for their entire lives or at least 25 years. My husband knows where his waist is because his 1860s naval uniform fits there, but no modern clothes do; they all go under his belly. Then again, I have had the same discussion with my two teen-age daughters about where their waists are. It's pitiful to try to fit anything with a hoop skirt on them because they insist that the waist of the skirt goes down where their jean tops are. And they're angry at me because I don't know my own anatomy! I ask, "Does it fit better here and does it feel better here?" "Yeah." "And that's where it belongs, right near your belly button." "But that's not where my waist is." I've given up the semantic argument and tell them that These Particular Clothes fit HERE not where they wear their jeans. That sometimes ends argument for the time. LynnD On 6/27/05, Melody Watts wrote: > > > Ah yes, men dressing like men, didn't Clark Gable and > Errol Flynn always look so "matty" and well groomed? > Wish guys dressed like that again,,, not cut off > shorts that were once dress pants and a holey white T > shirt and baseball cap. > I miss 1940's even (if i wasn't even thought of yet) > I always have a discussion about "where" a guys > waistline is with my DH, I say above the hips @ the > navel, DH says on hip bones, so I then counter with > "so then where are your hips?" It begins to sound like > "who's on first" > Then he'll pull his dress pants up to his armpits and > say "there are you happy?" > Maybe we should just eliminate the word "waist" from > mens > dialogue. > - > > > > In a message dated 6/27/2005 5:27:12 A.M. Eastern > > Standard Time, > > Joannah@sluggy.net writes: > > > > the natural waistline was just not right > > > > > > Natural waistline? Like where men wore their > > trousers in the 1950s? Y'know > > above the navel....a little below the rib cage? > > That's the last time I remember > > a > > natural" waistline. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 13:05:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RH5GaU020077 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:05:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RH4UBv081920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:04:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RH61Cg074915; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RH5tth074758 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:05:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IIR00J1U62NHGF0@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.35] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.66.149]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:03:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:03:57 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants To: Historical Costume Message-id: <454ef37454dbf4.454dbf4454ef37@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO YAY!!!! Someone else with the 'short-rise' problem. I have a long torso and a short rise (3" from natural waist to hip bone). So buying mundane clothes is a BEAR!!! Boy's dress shirts with longer bodies and sleeves, petite pants with short rise, ladies medium undergarments. (I know - too much info) Suit coats big enough to fit my broad shoulders - sleeves are too long and the body is baggy. Coats that fit the body and sleeves are too narrow in the shoulders... ETC.... And I won't get started on the ladies sz 7 1/2 WW shoes... in pretty white flats for office work. I have to use boys sz 5 - 6 D!! to fit my feet. I'm learning how to make shoes so I can make ones that fit my feet perfectly. Did I say also - I have high arches.... Katheryne OHC - I'm working on repairing/ renovating a 1940's full hoop wedding dress for my wedding in 2 weeks. Talk about lace and crinoline!!!! aagghh. (smile) I'll try to get a pic for everyone. ----- Original Message ----- From: Hope Greenberg SNIP > Plus I have a fairly low rise so if I don't want them hanging/bagging a foot > below the crotch I have to pull them practically up to my chin. The low-rise > pants and jeans (not super low rise, just moderate) have been a > godsend--finally pants that fit right!! > > Mandatory historic costume comment: one of the most fun things > about doing costume for re-enactment is that you can experiment with, > and then choose, a style that actually works with your body type. > - Hope _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 13:10:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RHA3M2020166 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:10:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RH8piE082473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:08:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RHAIQs078278; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:10:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav7.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RHA0CO077890 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:10:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:08:21 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.204 by BAY106-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:08:21 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.204] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050627053856.72EB737CE9@sitemail.everyone.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:03:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2005 17:08:21.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[D275C3E0:01C57B3A] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > ( he was 36 and she just 21 at the time ) about her horror over the fact > that natural waistlines in trousers are coming back ( albeit slowly ). She > has never worn anything *but* hipster jeans/trousers and thought that the > natural waistline was just not right _and_ made her her bum look big! :-) Actually, I think it's the opposite. Higher waistlines make the waist look much slimmer, and put a nice emphasis on the butt. My only problem with them is that most of them are too long for me. I'm short-waisted and a lot of them dig into my lower ribs. The slightly higher low-rider styles are just right for me. Or what we used to call low-waist style 15 years ago :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 16:07:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RK7Jj2003158 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:07:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RK64At003442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:06:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RK7XdW013963; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:07:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:eGcBAfMYAf4uluM2eCb2jw6bmIcpwtVf@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RK7Stl013868 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:07:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with SMTP id j5RK5qQq020628 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:05:52 -0400 Received: from dci012034014010.discovery.com ([12.34.14.10]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <61953.12.34.14.10.1119902752.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> References: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Small Museum Costume Program From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Anne, Have you contacted the Costume Society of America? There may be someone in your area who can help. Membership is open to anyone, so there is a range from museum professionals to amateur enthusiasts. There may be a student in your area who would like to volunteer, too. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 16:58:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RKwYZl003507 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RKvd3l009153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:57:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RKx9GX053053; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:59:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RKx2lg052954 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:59:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5RKvOG2022771 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:57:24 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.73] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-73.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.73]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5RKvBgs011744 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:57:25 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050627135514.032a6c38@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:56:07 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [h-cos } pants........ what a "waist" In-Reply-To: <20050627163656.99663.qmail@web32904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Errol Flynn always look so "matty" and well groomed? It's the modern men who look "matty" and unkempt, not men in the 30s, who look "natty". CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 17:01:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RL1edE003542 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:01:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RL0kcW009455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RL2HBR055447; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:02:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RL2AXp055365 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:02:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [66.179.109.174] (HELO p01i174.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.11.0-04) with SMTP id 6f860c24.1930816432.36314.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:00:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14249 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2005 20:53:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com) (199.184.176.8) by p01i174.mxlogic.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 2005 20:53:08 -0000 Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:52:43 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:52:44 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F5DF@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Small Museum Costume Program Thread-Index: AcV7Opy6sK+qu8GxThC7p8kRQczAkAAHzX8w From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2005 20:52:43.0766 (UTC) FILETIME=[2A58C160:01C57B5A] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005051801)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [66.179.109.174] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5RL2AXp055365 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Small Museum Costume Program X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *snip* We had a costume historian inventory some of our collection and present a program some years ago, but we cannot afford to have her come again, so our curator and I are thinking of presenting something ourselves. I have in mind a general program for people interested in "old clothing" and close-up views of items from the collection for the more knowledgeable. I do not want to pass myself off as an expert, but I know there are reenactors and others who would be interested in seeing what we have and that those who know nothing would find my research interesting. As costumers and researchers, what would you think of such a program in your area? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Anne Anne Dealy adelaide@genevahistoricalsociety.com ---------------------- Where are you located? I can't speak for everyone on this list, but I know that if I were given the chance for a good, close look at 'old clothing', I'd be happy to donate some time in exchange for the privilege. Kate McClure aka StitchWitch Beads? What beads . . . ? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 18:01:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RM1fTI004037 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:01:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RM0bch015984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:00:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RM28p5001254; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RM23Yi001186 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:02:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Dn1eT-000O4m-9E for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:00:26 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:59:27 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Small Museum Costume Program References: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> In-Reply-To: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As much as anything, simply to get some of the costumes out and mount them in a way that people can walk all round them and see the back and the inside would be great. So many displays using costumes are so frustrating because you just can't peer round and see how it fits together at the back! Maybe you could do some publicity locally and give groups an opportunity to choose a particular time period or type of garment, so you could get out a manageable number of items at a time for group sessions? Jean Anne wrote >I have not posted before, but hoped that the list might provide me with >some opinions regarding a program I am considering. I am an educator at >a small American museum of local history with a considerable costume >collection (about 2000 pieces). We have only 6 full time staff and 1 >curator, a generalist who is not well-versed in costume history. We >occasionally use costumes in our exhibits, but have not done any >costume-specific exhibits since our current curator and I came on board >5 years ago. That said, I am very interested in costume, though my >professional training is not in that area, and I would like to offer a >program to our community/region featuring items from our collection and >general information about costume history. My experience from this list >many costumers who blog is that there are many out there who would love >to see the material in our collection. > >We had a costume historian inventory some of our collection and present >a program some years ago, but we cannot afford to have her come again, >so our curator and I are thinking of presenting something ourselves. I >have in mind a general program for people interested in "old clothing" >and close-up views of items from the collection for the more >knowledgeable. I do not want to pass myself off as an expert, but I >know there are reenactors and others who would be interested in seeing >what we have and that those who know nothing would find my research >interesting. As costumers and researchers, what would you think of such >a program in your area? Thanks for any insight you can provide. >Anne > >Anne Dealy >adelaide@genevahistoricalsociety.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 18:07:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RM7S5e004061 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:07:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RM6XWI016545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:06:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RM87ba005618; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:08:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RM83Rg005554 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:08:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Dn1kI-000PA5-8U for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:06:26 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:05:11 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants References: <20050627053856.72EB737CE9@sitemail.everyone.net> <42BFF5FC.8040300@uvm.edu> In-Reply-To: <42BFF5FC.8040300@uvm.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<$5zN+JT34zdhaF4t6RgTWmIoEP>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In message <42BFF5FC.8040300@uvm.edu>, Hope Greenberg writes >Joannah Hansen wrote: > >> He made the point that as soon as natural waistlines became >>mainstream fashion again, she would be wearing them and wondering what >>she ever thought was so great about hipsters! She wasn't convinced, >>but then, she is still quite young. >>Joannah >> >Hey it's not just the young! I have no hips to speak of--waist/hip >measurement much closer to each other than the feminine "ideal", so if >I buy regular women's pants that fit me around the waist, they are >usually wide enough around the rear-end to look like clown pants. Plus >I have a fairly low rise so if I don't want them hanging/bagging a foot >below the crotch I have to pull them practically up to my chin. The >low-rise pants and jeans (not super low rise, just moderate) have been >a godsend--finally pants that fit right!! > >Mandatory historic costume comment: one of the most fun things about >doing costume for re-enactment is that you can experiment with, and >then choose, a style that actually works with your body type. > >- Hope I'm exactly the opposite - long waist, short legs, big bum, small(er) waist. Trousers that fit round my hips look like a sack when belted in to my waist, and cropped trousers are just right for ankle length on me. The problem with modern clothes is just that you can only get what's currently fashionable - tell you what, you can keep the current trousers for the next 10 years or so, if I can have the style of 10 years ago back. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 19:14:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RNEbn1004381 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:14:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RNDUKg024655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:13:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RNF17S050691; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:15:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from covert.brown-ring.iadfw.net (8f.7b.d1c4.cidr.airmail.net [209.196.123.143]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RNEviO050644 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lecachot@airmail.net) Received: from airmail2.airmail.net ([209.196.123.61] helo=webmail.airmail.net) by covert.iadfw.net with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1Dn2q2-0007f0-3V for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:16:26 -0500 Received: from 24.28.65.6 (SquirrelMail authenticated user lecachot@airmail.net) by webmail.airmail.net with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:13:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <2529.24.28.65.6.1119913988.squirrel@webmail.airmail.net> In-Reply-To: References: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:13:08 -0500 (CDT) From: lecachot@airmail.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT? - Help with Unsubscribing/Resubscribing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry to bother the list with this, but I recently changed email addresses and I need to unsubscribe my old address and resubscribe under my new one. I know I had instructions at one time (I did manage to join this list once), but for the life of me I cannot find them. Can anyone help? Thanks, Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 19:30:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RNUPd3004452 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:30:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RNTSBN026178 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RNV2Lf059974; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:31:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RNUw7g059926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:31:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dn32I-0004BI-CS; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:29:06 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:29:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20050627182906.l9ac36jxl1s8kkos@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:29:06 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT? - Help with Unsubscribing/Resubscribing References: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> <2529.24.28.65.6.1119913988.squirrel@webmail.airmail.net> In-Reply-To: <2529.24.28.65.6.1119913988.squirrel@webmail.airmail.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting lecachot@airmail.net: > Sorry to bother the list with this, but I recently changed email addresses > and I need to unsubscribe my old address and resubscribe under my new one. > I know I had instructions at one time (I did manage to join this list > once), but for the life of me I cannot find them. Can anyone help? I had to just do this in fact. Go to the web site > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume and log on -- you may need to create a log-in name and password. Then you can log in and simply change the email address. You'll need to click the first "save" to make that change. Email me off list if you have any problems or need anything else. Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 19:50:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5RNol67004546 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:50:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5RNo3Ub028271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:50:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RNpd0q070984; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:51:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web51309.mail.yahoo.com (web51309.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.175]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5RNoHxW070265 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:50:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 64879 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jun 2005 23:48:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=SlHBo9GUGn2K55xOoCD1H0Ay9XM0eWmOzdfpXZujxTs592HouNhvMw6M0Y4XSbl50SA8m6Iu/y2A5TCwrp8dlJvqaO+U1Wr715dxyInHkT5pq9dTvXq9jJFIkgikm9EKvw38j0JpYtjXLY9ew0p6QSC3yOkWj50NSE2gl41qyUs= ; Message-ID: <20050627234834.64877.qmail@web51309.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.147.71] by web51309.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:48:34 PDT Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:48:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Shoes Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <454ef37454dbf4.454dbf4454ef37@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO For modern stuff, may I recommend Munro brand? I have 7 1/2 WW feet, with narrow heels & a very high arch. I haven't kicked off my shoes yet, because they are Munro brand & comfy. If you are ever in central Connecticut--Footprints shoe store, off Rte. 15 in Newington specializes in having multiple A to multiple E widths. My fifteenth century shoes are from Master Dru & very wonderful they are. Custom. My main nineteenth century shoes are from Amazon Drygoods, the Balmoral boots, and are comfy enough that they've outlasted three out soles so far. Ann in CT --- purplkat@optonline.net wrote: > > And I won't get started on the ladies sz 7 1/2 WW > shoes... in pretty white flats for office work. > Did I say also - I have high arches.... > > Katheryne ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 20:13:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5S0D4uL004618 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:13:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5S0CMWS030214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:12:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5S0DvSQ081797; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:13:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com (web41902.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.153]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5S0DsqJ081747 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from seamuslady@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 69725 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2005 00:12:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=LYGH/akDVbV2UPpAeA+Dd3iCCOvm80SxUHCGcrPXvR7qL1eDdJ3WBlc/ZvUpcXWWQVwwa6/DsuKKdEkjZ1Ger+mEAaiD2JFWuNDHGYo14aV5cf4VahjqjzMg7gtD9YP3Kf4iyvsO+H5sdqQSDUVEJZKae0mwonburxCKec9R1Gg= ; Message-ID: <20050628001211.69723.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [216.8.166.109] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:12:11 PDT Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:12:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Lady Satine To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506271707.j5RH67r4075010@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bead Stringing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Fran.... About your impression on the "amateur beading jobs" You seem to like things the way I do! with knots in between each bead.. However I am minded to mention that your comment of armature beading is well leaving me as to inform you better about beading and its many facets! It sounds like you want a quality Job.. NO harm there! I expect no less than the best! Ask my husband I get what I want! I applaude you for kinda knowing what you want.. However having knots between each bead will not prevent breakage of the stringing "cord" alone The care you take after the item is complete will help prolong the life of the Item.. Including how much wear and tear the Item gets if its a lot you will be looking to restring in a couple years again! All string will eventually stretch! Especially if you are using a heavy bead that will cause the cord to stretch faster.... Since they are glass be careful because glass beads have tiny fractures that act as "teeth" on the cord and may eventually "eat" the cording you use causing early breakage..... These are all things to Keep in mind as well as the technique used for stringing these beads. They sound really pretty and I for one do not want you to loose anymore of them especially sicne some were your Mums! . Good luck getting these strung. to your satisfaction! I would ask a jeweler in your area who they know does what Kind of quality stringing in your area.. That you are looking for! It may save on postage etc...... Hope this helps. .I just do not like seeing anyone looking for an absolute solution for beading cause there arent any I know I hve been lookin gfor 25 years for one! LOL! Satine --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 20:50:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5S0olkl004771 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:50:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5S0njYF034968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:49:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5S0pKbA000943; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:51:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5S0pGdG000910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:51:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.50) id 1Dn4I2-0004gs-JE; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:49:26 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde) with HTTP for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:49:26 -0500 Message-ID: <20050627194926.yaec19ev93i80884@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:49:26 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT: mundane pattern alteration question (princess seam) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK. I know all y'all know lots more about pattern alteration than I do. I need to alter a mundane princess seamed garmet (seams going into armhole rather than to shoulder). I'm chesty -- 34 F/G -- and the curve is always too high -- how do I lower it? Thanks, Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 21:51:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5S1pb0J005153 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:51:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5S1odF7041647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:50:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5S1qEo2030014; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:52:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:qvOopJ4bgOpkIHGS+ox7wzEGIR3HV8yS@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5S1qAmh029984 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:52:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.155] (pool180-247.patriot.net [209.249.180.247]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.12.10/8.12.3) with ESMTP id j5S1oNQr007006 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:50:29 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050628001211.69723.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050628001211.69723.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:48:20 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bead Stringing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I remember something else from my beading classes - knotting is traditional for pearls (as is using silk cord). If they break, you won't drop any more than one pearl. There were crystal necklaces, I think popular in the 1940s, plain crystal. My grandmother's was "strung" on a chain, not any kind of string. Probably because the beads were tough on string, as Satine described. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Jun 27 23:57:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5S3vfht005728 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5S3uhKP054252 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:56:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5S3wHpZ089134; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:58:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5S3wDNo089098 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from costumrs@radiks.net) Received: from user-12l237j.cable.mindspring.com ([69.81.12.243] helo=pierre-ynmjysj2.radiks.net) by pop-canoe.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Dn7D8-00041o-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 23:56:34 -0400 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050627224959.02894580@pop.radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net@pop.radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:56:16 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger In-Reply-To: <200506271800.j5RI052W016994@net.indra.com> References: <200506271800.j5RI052W016994@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Pants X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And then there's those of us in the other extreme - Even "natural waistline" pants are hipsters on me - VERY long rise - and almost no-one carries "talls" any more (which I sometimes need to hem because while I have a 33" inseam, most "talls" are 35"). Never mind finding tops long enough to cover the torso, or anything with a waist seam that actually comes anywhere near my waist (whatever the definition ). Any wonder I live in knits and T-shirts? (except costumes, of course). Sandy >From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" >Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants > > > ( he was 36 and she just 21 at the time ) about her horror over the fact > > that natural waistlines in trousers are coming back ( albeit slowly ). She > > has never worn anything *but* hipster jeans/trousers and thought that the > > natural waistline was just not right _and_ made her her bum look big! :-) > >Actually, I think it's the opposite. Higher waistlines make the waist look >much slimmer, and put a nice emphasis on the butt. My only problem with them >is that most of them are too long for me. I'm short-waisted and a lot of >them dig into my lower ribs. The slightly higher low-rider styles are just >right for me. Or what we used to call low-waist style 15 years ago :-) "Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm "The Illusion of Historical Fact" -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 07:07:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SB7oGU007313 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:07:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SB6pMj015190 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:06:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SB8To9068204; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:08:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay103-f9.bay103.hotmail.com [65.54.174.19]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5RHtJOd013383 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:55:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauradi7@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:53:40 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.174.200 by by103fd.bay103.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:53:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.174.200] X-Originating-Email: [lauradi7@hotmail.com] X-Sender: lauradi7@hotmail.com From: "Laura Dickerson" To: h-costume@net.indra.com Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:53:40 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Jun 2005 17:53:40.0761 (UTC) FILETIME=[27044890:01C57B41] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pockets in 18th century breeches X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This isn't my main period of interest, but I may be making a pair of breeches (mid-1770s) for someone and have been looking around on the web. The ones for sale as Jas Townsend list pockets. Is that correct for the time? http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_17&products_id=497 Is the Eagle View pattern suitable in terms of authenticity? I found a review that said it had clear instructions, which is also a good thing. Thanks for any info. Laura Dickerson _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 07:43:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SBha6V007593 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:43:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SBfmvU017743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:41:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SBhVau082298; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:43:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SBhRw0082266 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from Fiona ([162.84.112.109]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IIS00GLKLTE9783@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:41:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:43:39 -0400 From: "Ron Carnegie" Subject: RE: [h-cost] pockets in 18th century breeches In-reply-to: To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pockets are most certainly correct. In fact there should be three. To on either side, usually buttoning closed just before the hips. And a watch pocket on the right front side just above the fall. I wouldn't use the Eagle View pattern, Ron Carnegie > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Laura Dickerson > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 12:54 PM > To: h-costume@net.indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] pockets in 18th century breeches > > > This isn't my main period of interest, but I may be making a pair of > breeches (mid-1770s) for someone and have been looking around on > the web. > The ones for sale as Jas Townsend list pockets. Is that correct for the > time? > http://jas-townsend.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_17&products_id=497 > Is the Eagle View pattern suitable in terms of authenticity? I found a > review that said it had clear instructions, which is also a good thing. > Thanks for any info. > Laura Dickerson > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 09:41:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SDfaFJ008253 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:41:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SDegWG025691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:40:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SDgNcf035581; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:42:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SDgL9J035553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.12.9/Submit) id j5SDgLDR035552 for h-costume@net.indra.com; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:42:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:42:21 -0600 From: Gmane Administrator To: h-costume@net.indra.com Message-ID: <20050628134221.GB22439@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] h-costume added to Gmane X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO With the permission of the list administrator, the h-costume mailing list has been added to Gmane. This allows the mailing list to be read as if it were a Usenet newsgroup. Gmane is a mail-to-news portal that never expires its messages. It therefore also functions as a mailing list archive. It's a bi-directional gateway, but Gmane verifies that its users' email addresses are valid before passing the messages through the news-to-mail gateway. (Groups can also be made "read-only", which means that Gmane won't forward any messages at all to the mailing list.) Gmane can encrypt addresses to make address harvesting difficult, and heeds X-No-Archive and related headers. In partnership with The Mail Archive, messages will be archived on that service as well. This provides redundancy across two archival services. The following parameters are set for this mailing list: * Newsgroup name: gmane.culture.studies.history.costume * Mailing list address: h-costume@mail.indra.com * The gateway is bi-directional * Address encryption is on * Spam detection is on * The list is described as: "Historical Costume Mailing List" * News URL: news://news.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume * Web URL: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume This newsgroup will be created when the first message from the mailing list arrives. For more information about the Gmane project, go to . For more information about The Mail Archive, go to . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 10:18:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SEI1Y1008517 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:18:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SEHH1R029180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:17:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SEIx3A057892; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:19:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SEItCp057759 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:18:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.cd.2b1ff6d1 (18251) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:17:04 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:17:03 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Juana la Loca X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just saw this film [also known as "Mad Love"]. What a clunker...but very beautiful. It's sorta the Spanish version of "Ann of a Thousand Days." It starts to drag about half way through because it's sorta the same scene of Juana being insanely jealous over her hunky husband [Philip the Handsome...yes that's what he was really called] over and over. You want to slap her and say "Girl! Get a grip! You're queen of Castile, fer Christ sake!" Anyway, the costumes are beautiful [as are all the design elements] and for those of us who can watch just about anything with good costumes, worth the 2 hours. The court ladies look fantastic, but it's the men who really look good....in what I consider a difficult period ...late 1400s to early 1500s....and it's mostly in Spain. Indeed, my only complaint is there's not much difference between the Spanish look and the Flemish look. But that's minor, really...and things get suitably dreary when Juana goes into mourning over her mother. Interesting historical note: [I like to look up characters to see what REALLY happened] Philip and Juana were ship wrecked in England where they were the guests of Henry VII....who apparently courted Juana after Philip dies early on. But she was just too nuts. Her younger sister was Catherine of Aragon. Anyway, you Renaissance lovers should check it out if you haven't seen it. I think it came out in 2002. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 10:36:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SEaD5h008656 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:36:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SEZDF8030959 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:35:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SEavh9069861; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:36:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5SEarQ5069767 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from galadrielfinwe@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30503 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2005 14:35:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1a94pkq/ITc2xBTN9mtDM6DKB8H+sPRZZnj/z4OAbLcV3YUViJyM2mUszOXy/5b3UMwbpNGmBiHI0vj3ODSSvXwCq9NCHPoGlXyu7qRyyxeEi4EDdHbtXJs3HU4Y5L80aXoBiJ87hjrhZTxFlR1hBL4K47Wgwn2nMA0knVXQH28= ; Message-ID: <20050628143502.30501.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.19.8] by web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:35:02 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Galadriel of Lothlorien To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I get this ALL THE TIME! With some people it's easy. Confused person: My waist is down here. Me: Where are you the smallest? Confused person: Well... up here. Me: That's your waist. But that doesn't work for a lot of people so I usually fall back on the ol' standby: "Bend side to side. Put your hands where you bend. THAT is your waist. Believe it or not!" I think people get confused because even before the hipster craze, even though waists were higher they weren't natural. P.S. I love hipsters. More pants fit me this way and I'm FINALLY finding stuff long enough that I don't look like I'm wearing floods. Hooray! ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 10:37:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SEbio2008676 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:37:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SEatuT031130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SEccCN071047; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SEcYj2071000 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:38:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from sitemail.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A80B3405A0 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sitemail.everyone.net (Postfix, from userid 99) id 69CB837D68; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:36:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics X-Originating-Ip: [210.49.100.182] X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5CwWCBAATvYwEAAAAB,d398399421b73835d4cab67bc02f00b7 Message-Id: <20050628143649.69CB837D68@sitemail.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko, My heartfelt sympathy about your mother. I've been through a very similar situation. And many, many good wishes to you and your husband and sons, for your daughter-to-be. May she be a healthy, happy baby. Congratulations! Can't help with any of the hat things, but I hope you have fun with whatever projects you end up doing! Joannah. --- Kimiko Small wrote: From: Kimiko Small Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:21:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance hats in velvet fabrics Hi all, It's been several months since I left the mail list, and I am glad to have returned. My life story took quite a turn earlier this year as I took care of my ailing mom, and focused all my efforts for her. She died on May 1 after a year long fight with lung cancer. I have since been trying to reclaim my own life, one small step at a time. On the positive side, my husband and I are expecting a baby girl in mid-October, which after two boys will be different for me. But it does mean that any full costuming plans I had are currently on hold till sometime this winter. So, I figured I would work on accessories for my outfits this summer, such as finishing my leather gloves (inspiration for the gauntlets still elude me), making partlets (a Tudor and an Elizabethan), and making appropriate hats as my old ones ... well are old. On hats, I would like to make a Tudor gable hat, a French hood similar to what Mary Brandon (sister to Henry VIII) wears in her portrait with her husband, and something for my Elizabethan attire (what exactly, I am not sure). I have worked with cotton velveteen for my previous hats (scraps from the main gowns), but this time I want to work with better velvets. I don't know if cotton velvet or silk/rayon velvet would be better choices for hats? Is there a millinery velvet still available? I searched for millinery velvet in LA's hat store (the one at the edge of the garment district), but I didn't see it. Might have overlooked it considering how dark the place was. Anyway, any and all suggestions or experiences working with the various velvets for hats would be appreciated. Also, any suggestions for appropriate silk to use for lining the hats would be helpful. I am concerned with using something too slippery, as I don't want them falling or sliding around my head all the time. Thanks all. Kimiko Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Fresno, CA, USA "Lady of the Wardrobe" for Isle of Mann Guild Portraying at California's Central Valley Renaissance Faires Lady Clifford, Countess of Cumberland (Margaret Percy, Eleanor Brandon, or Margaret Russell) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 10:47:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SEleuD008738 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SEkiul032153 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:46:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SEmQtI077499; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:48:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SEmM6q077427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:48:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5SEfmlR030283 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:41:48 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:41:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42C162CC.4010207@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:46:36 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628143502.30501.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050628143502.30501.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Galadriel of Lothlorien wrote: > But that doesn't work for a lot of people so I usually > fall back on the ol' standby: "Bend side to side. > Put your hands where you bend. THAT is your waist. > Believe it or not!" And the guys that wear their pants under the tummy bulge think that's their waist. Of course that puts the hang of the pants fronts all funny, but they have a choice of either over or under the bulge, neither one of which is ideal. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "I told Dru I'm laying down the law tonight." "A verb very close to her heart." -- Pibgorn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 11:29:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SFTZtZ009023 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:29:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SFSlZW037486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:28:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SFUTP6009318; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:30:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SFUMvq009233 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:30:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-102.sonic.net [209.148.114.102]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SFSZnb009157 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:28:36 -0700 Message-ID: <42C16CA9.5090500@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:28:41 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm going from memory here, haven't read on this subject in a long time, and have never been expert on it. So my information is vague . . . However, there is some historical debate over whether Juana "the mad" actually was mad. There were strong political reasons for pushing her out of the way. Juana inherited part of Spain, I think Castile, from her mother; which had not been expected when she married because at that time older siblings were in line for the inheritance (they later died). When a woman inherited a kingdom, the men in her life were all anxious to rule it for her (think of Mary Queen of Scots). In Juana's case, the men were her father, her husband, and later her grandson, Charles V, I think. So it was very convenient to declare her mad and establish her permanently in a remote castle. As for Henry VII not marrying Juana, again I haven't read up on this. But I believe Henry considered a number of alliances for his son as well as himself. This was perfectly normal for the period; everybody shopped around for the best political and financial deal. Henry VII ended up not remarrying at all, if I recall. As for Juana, again, this is a very vague memory, but I seem to recall he said something like--this is the sentiment, not the words--it didn't matter if a woman was mad if she was attractive and fertile. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > >Interesting historical note: [I like to look up characters to see what >REALLY happened] Philip and Juana were ship wrecked in England where they were the >guests of Henry VII....who apparently courted Juana after Philip dies early >on. But she was just too nuts. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 12:26:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SGQ3h8009450 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:26:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SGOscp045410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:24:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SGQaoJ054036; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:26:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SGQVV8053872 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:26:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from FABRICHOARDER@aol.com) Received: from FABRICHOARDER@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.143.47d32acf (15899) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mblk-d46 (mblk-d46.mblk.aol.com [205.188.212.230]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v106.2) with ESMTP id MAILINID92-3e1b42c179c1293; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:24:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:24:33 -0400 Message-Id: <8C74A15009FE563-924-111A5@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> From: fabrichoarder@aol.com References: <42C16CA9.5090500@lavoltapress.com> Received: from 68.88.44.129 by mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com (205.188.212.230) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:24:33 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <42C16CA9.5090500@lavoltapress.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.12781 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.212.230 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Juana attacked her husband in a jealous rage with a pair of scissors. After his death, she wouldn't part with his body. She took it everywhere. It was finally taken from her by force. True, she may not have been mad, but she did have anger management and separation anxiety issues..... Ramona -----Original Message----- From: Lavolta Press To: Historical Costume Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:28:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca I'm going from memory here, haven't read on this subject in a long time, and have never been expert on it. So my information is vague . . . However, there is some historical debate over whether Juana "the mad" actually was mad. There were strong political reasons for pushing her out of the way. Juana inherited part of Spain, I think Castile, from her mother; which had not been expected when she married because at that time older siblings were in line for the inheritance (they later died). When a woman inherited a kingdom, the men in her life were all anxious to rule it for her (think of Mary Queen of Scots). In Juana's case, the men were her father, her husband, and later her grandson, Charles V, I think. So it was very convenient to declare her mad and establish her permanently in a remote castle. As for Henry VII not marrying Juana, again I haven't read up on this. But I believe Henry considered a number of alliances for his son as well as himself. This was perfectly normal for the period; everybody shopped around for the best political and financial deal. Henry VII ended up not remarrying at all, if I recall. As for Juana, again, this is a very vague memory, but I seem to recall he said something like--this is the sentiment, not the words--it didn't matter if a woman was mad if she was attractive and fertile. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > >Interesting historical note: [I like to look up characters to see what >REALLY happened] Philip and Juana were ship wrecked in England where they were the >guests of Henry VII....who apparently courted Juana after Philip dies early >on. But she was just too nuts. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 12:43:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SGhtlR009619 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:43:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SGh48M047668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:43:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SGijvn068375; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:44:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SGid53068310 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:44:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-102.sonic.net [209.148.114.102]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SGgqNj005968 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:42:52 -0700 Message-ID: <42C17E12.9040400@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:42:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca References: <42C16CA9.5090500@lavoltapress.com> <8C74A15009FE563-924-111A5@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C74A15009FE563-924-111A5@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Physical violence, and verbal rages, used to be far more acceptable than now. For example, was Philip ever involved in a swordfight during his lifetime? As for the corpse, for an age that revered body parts that had supposedly belonged to saints, it seems less peculiar than we would think it if someone did it now. The bottom line is that we make a much firmer distinction between madness (psychosis), chronic inability to function well in society (neurosis), and difficult but usually temporary (if sometimes extended) emotional states (depression on the death of a loved one, rage at a soon-to-be-divorced spouse, and so on). In most previous eras, the line between an individual being permitted unusual and difficult behavior, and being shut away, often depended on whether someone had the motives and power to shut that person away. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com fabrichoarder@aol.com wrote: > Juana attacked her husband in a jealous rage with a pair of scissors. After his death, she wouldn't part with his body. She took it everywhere. It was finally taken from her by force. True, she may not have been mad, but she did have anger management and separation anxiety issues..... > >Ramona > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 13:36:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SHaWhl010001 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SHZWJm054871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:35:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHb9km010942; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:37:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com (mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com [66.192.123.47]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHawNO010743 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:37:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from adelaide@genevahistoricalsociety.com) Received: from [192.168.0.5] [24.39.235.120] by mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A97F5210124; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:31:43 -0400 Message-ID: <42C18A0E.6090804@genevahistoricalsociety.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:34:06 -0400 From: Anne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.1) Gecko/20040707 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Small Museum Costume Program References: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you so much to the many who have posted suggestions to this thread. I will be considering many of them, not only for this year, but for the future. To clarify, we aren't planning an exhibit at this time--this is tough for us just in terms of mannequins. What we plan to do is offer a one time program with a short presentation and time for showing people a few pieces from our collection. For those who wondered about the museum, it's the Geneva Historical Society in Geneva, NY. That's in the Finger Lakes midway between Rochester and Syracuse, about 6 hours drive from NYC and 3-4 from Toronto. Most of our collection covers from about 1780-the present, with the bulk from the 1830s to 1960s. Our website is www.genevahistoricalsociety.com (though it doesn't have much info on the collection) if you want to check it out. Thanks again. Anne -- Anne Dealy adelaide@genevahistoricalsociety.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 13:44:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SHhxl1010055 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:43:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SHggGc055581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:42:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHiRAr016656; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:44:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32910.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32910.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.57]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5SHiO42016555 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:44:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 99286 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2005 17:42:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1Xe47rG8KXggtWVLs3liWyHupSsM1hhVOdUtpyvpSevxlyhxB7yxhMfgRPhzqEODKBar4/sE2hY/hH2nKYhi6ELzOpZi2PBbVFDktqoNKKIzYUXNMzbEPj8Op5AwQ2ffWY1J+uHAfYTRRb/eV6nLQ3SYuf6FLc2kjcLST8G6eyk= ; Message-ID: <20050628174232.99284.qmail@web32910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.14] by web32910.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:42:32 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <454ef37454dbf4.454dbf4454ef37@optonline.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You missed the sign up for the"short waist club";~> My "length betwen my waist and hip bones is about 2 finger widths(1-1 1/2"?) try fitting that! Used to shop in the Sears pre-teen dept.before the kids"re-arranged" my figure. I buy the hipster panties to fit as briefs,also have the "Footballers" shoulders,apparently I own short arms too,as all sleeves got to my knuckles,(great for Regency era,not cool with tailored suits). Was tempted to learn how to make shoes also, I have narrow heels and "duck" feet....oh and I posses an extra set of ankle bones ,on the inside of my feet,so they all rub an the extras...I only wear suede if I can,it gives. At least with costumes,you can tailor the clothes to your particular "pecidillos". Or pick an era that suits your body type. Now shopping in a 15 century Italian gown,does turn heads......... Congrats on the wedding. Melody --- purplkat@optonline.net wrote: > snip..... > > Someone else with the 'short-rise' problem. > I have a long torso and a short rise (3" from > natural waist to hip bone). > > Boy's dress shirts with longer bodies and sleeves, > petite pants with short rise, ladies medium > undergarments. > Suit coats big enough to fit my broad shoulders - > sleeves are too long and the body is baggy. Coats > that fit the body and sleeves are too narrow in the > shoulders... ETC.... > > And I won't get started on the ladies sz 7 1/2 WW > shoes... > Did I say also - I have high arches.... > > Katheryne > > OHC - I'm working on repairing/ renovating a 1940's > full hoop wedding dress for my wedding in 2 weeks. > Talk about lace and crinoline!!!! aagghh. (smile) > I'll try to get a pic for everyone. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Hope Greenberg > > SNIP > > Plus I have a fairly low rise so if I don't want > them hanging/bagging a foot > > below the crotch I have to pull them practically > up to my chin. ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 13:49:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SHnK0N010076 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:49:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SHmgwt056240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:48:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHoHoi021226; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:50:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHoCOt021091 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:50:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF9063C845 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:48:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <42C18DA6.9060309@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:49:26 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Small Museum Costume Program References: <42C01C1A.6040508@genevahistoricalsociety.com> <42C18A0E.6090804@genevahistoricalsociety.com> In-Reply-To: <42C18A0E.6090804@genevahistoricalsociety.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anne wrote: > Most of our collection covers from about 1780-the present, with > the bulk from the 1830s to 1960s. Our website is > www.genevahistoricalsociety.com (though it doesn't have much info on the > collection) if you want to check it out. Adding pictures of the collection would be wonderful. It's something you could do slowly over a period of time, adding good photos of a few pieces at a time. It would also be a good visual record of the collection in case, god forbid, something were to happen to it. Eventually you could collect pictures into a book that might become a fundraiser. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 13:51:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SHpFFl010091 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:51:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SHoRdq056693 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:50:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHqAbD023010; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:52:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5SHq7fO022814 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:52:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 78170 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2005 17:50:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UzUbPPmqTO/IGZC3AZPEK9/s8pTpZX+P5IFWoBMnxf02kokE94mMuih0jAQRxe9hksT7/1M3MShiMhr7aehtcWT+envQpqgo6IvMLYIaqlQaee8YD0Nw3VOwCC4vpsEpoUIwSiaV5fCm+K+RFKekL/033DspVyjqat/y7tzW7GU= ; Message-ID: <20050628175015.78168.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.14] by web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:50:15 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:50:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: [h-cos] "seeing error"...get my white cane To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050627135514.032a6c38@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO M & N are too close on the keyboard for my 52 yr old myopic and reading glasses needing eyeballs. spell check was apparently happy with matty. Errol Flynn was never "matty" even as the Pirate scoundrel. I am aware of the matty/natty difference....yucky/nice... just can't frickin' see.... - __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 13:52:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SHqwk2010100 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:52:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SHpH0H057041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:51:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHqpSQ023770; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:53:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SHqjlh023634 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:52:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09204 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:50:56 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Juana la Loca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:50:48 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Juana la Loca Thread-Index: AcV7/fKM+1zRtFchRDWdRKU5d/GevwAA2cEg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5SHqjlh023634 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In some defense of Juana, hubby dear was famous for his womanizing. Although women were supposed to suffer in silence(and still are expected to in most world cultures today) a husband's serial unfaithfulness, even in the "enlightened" West), you have to hand it to Juana for fighting back in some way that most wives throughout history would have secretly applauded. So keeping his body in death was some kind of revenge, abeit macabre. Also if Philip had caught some sexually transmitted disease, especially VD, over time this could have effected her mentally and physically. And if any of their children had inheirited an STD, she could have been both angry and guilty that she hadn't prevented Philip's unfaithfulness. Henry VII, recently widowed, offered to wed Juana, so perhaps she wasn't that insane. Insane or not, having her pronounced so and committed to a convent certainly made the inheiritance issue of who would rule the kingdoms of Aragon and Castile(soon to be officially one as Spain), much easier for father Ferdinand to choose his heir. Can't remember if this was one of Juana's brothers or her sons, but a male heir was always preferred. A woman as ruler(Juana's mother Isabelle of Castile was the very rare exception. She quickly married cousin Ferdinand of neighboring Aragon)was always a last resort. Juana's younger sister Catherine also had a fixation over not giving up her husband, namely, Henry VIII. Where other royal wives in the past had voluntarily or forceably retired to convents or agreed to anulments upon that rare failure of providing that all-important male heir, Salic law or no, Catherine dug in her heels, invoked God's will that she hadn't produced a surviving male heir for Henry, and made no excuse that she wanted her daughter, Mary, wedded to Spanish royalty, or at least to a ruler or heir of a vassal of Spain. Pre Anne Boleyn, Catherine had not been at all agreeable to Henry VIII, understandably, wanted a male heir, to prevent the possibility of England becoming just another outpost colony of Spain. Henry's complaint that "Am I not a man like other men?" was a veiled statement that other Popes had annuled royal marriages or engagements when a male heir was needed(he fathered and recognized his son Henry Fitzroy)by Elizabeth Blount). Spain wanted England on its side. Rome may have wanted England to be completely faithful to the Church as Lollardism had never completely disappeared from England. So perhaps there was an unspoken "agreement", enforced later by Charles of Spain's troops sacking Rome and making the Pope prisoner, in effect, that Henry VIII's having only a legitimate daughter was "God's Will" and it would be a good thing to have young Mary wed into the Spanish royal family. Cindy Abel cynthiaabel@creighton.edu -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of fabrichoarder@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:25 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca Juana attacked her husband in a jealous rage with a pair of scissors. After his death, she wouldn't part with his body. She took it everywhere. It was finally taken from her by force. True, she may not have been mad, but she did have anger management and separation anxiety issues..... Ramona -----Original Message----- From: Lavolta Press To: Historical Costume Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:28:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca I'm going from memory here, haven't read on this subject in a long time, and have never been expert on it. So my information is vague . . . However, there is some historical debate over whether Juana "the mad" actually was mad. There were strong political reasons for pushing her out of the way. Juana inherited part of Spain, I think Castile, from her mother; which had not been expected when she married because at that time older siblings were in line for the inheritance (they later died). When a woman inherited a kingdom, the men in her life were all anxious to rule it for her (think of Mary Queen of Scots). In Juana's case, the men were her father, her husband, and later her grandson, Charles V, I think. So it was very convenient to declare her mad and establish her permanently in a remote castle. As for Henry VII not marrying Juana, again I haven't read up on this. But I believe Henry considered a number of alliances for his son as well as himself. This was perfectly normal for the period; everybody shopped around for the best political and financial deal. Henry VII ended up not remarrying at all, if I recall. As for Juana, again, this is a very vague memory, but I seem to recall he said something like--this is the sentiment, not the words--it didn't matter if a woman was mad if she was attractive and fertile. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > >Interesting historical note: [I like to look up characters to see what >REALLY happened] Philip and Juana were ship wrecked in England where they were the >guests of Henry VII....who apparently courted Juana after Philip dies early >on. But she was just too nuts. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 14:04:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SI4QBX010154 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:04:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SI2tt3059193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SI4buW034111; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:04:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.206.60]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5SI4X5X033971 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from celticredhead2002@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 21186 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2005 18:02:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=DJrIP2rOEd/CuGSOPHImtlHXRyLJQnFUCWcRiI0bAjPRAgw31rn7Y3rL0KJMCFeFzu8hK4/gXoFQ45hIe9mju8a111zHoiquyIP8EZEnSRpntUpZVZrn4hTog/9XMe6NRbKufyUZP8NNL0zbgnFdqMZjq1SAmiaFvj+LlIgyJp4= ; Message-ID: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.103.126.14] by web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:02:41 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Melody Watts Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <42C162CC.4010207@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love when guys with a "beer barrel" belly say " I have a 32" waist." they think they still have feet, they haven't seen them in years because of their "waists".... --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Galadriel of Lothlorien wrote: > > > But that doesn't work for a lot of people so I > usually > > fall back on the ol' standby: "Bend side to side. > > > Put your hands where you bend. THAT is your > waist. > > Believe it or not!" > > And the guys that wear their pants under the tummy > bulge think that's > their waist. Of course that puts the hang of the > pants fronts all > funny, but they have a choice of either over or > under the bulge, neither > one of which is ideal. > > -- > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent > > "I told Dru I'm laying down the law tonight." > "A verb very close to her heart." -- Pibgorn > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 14:14:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SIEVD8010212 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:14:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SICQcS060808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:12:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SIDvDB042388; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:14:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SIDmcw042244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5SI7DlR001447 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:07:13 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42C192F1.2010200@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:12:01 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Melody Watts wrote: > I love when guys with a "beer barrel" belly say " I > have a 32" waist." There must be a technical term for the bulge part, because if you're doing real tailoring, you need to know what it is and how big it is. I just call it 'bulge' when I'm measuring someone, though. And I know from my own body that if you wear your waistband there, all the time, fat won't deposit at the waistband, so the rest gets even bulgier. >>>Put your hands where you bend. THAT is your waist. The waist would be a horizontal oval intersecting those points, right? Not a shape which dips down from the horizontal while intersecting those points. I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the skirts properly. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "I told Dru I'm laying down the law tonight." "A verb very close to her heart." -- Pibgorn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 15:11:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SJB7me010694 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:11:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SJ9v80080562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:09:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SJBFCY099082; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:11:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.79]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5SJB8P2098901 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:11:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 72212 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Jun 2005 19:09:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=G0r8bbdTr0OVJDjSeIrt0e9Ta7q0JIozu/1fOD0wFpUCsc4z6Ne6a6T1Book4M9zYcPqxdEFJOqDSFY+NXK1/3swDNXpctYUQgc4tkxVmvQcXWGejwxDnHp2Sn3ft00POyjXSxBtAo2shq2d+emWlPL+KHn7yzgfJbusBcFXIsg= ; Message-ID: <20050628190915.72210.qmail@web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:09:15 PDT Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:09:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506281755.j5SHrBwP024034@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: mens 1770 pants X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pockets are good, no pockets are good, you only need a watch pocket IF you actually have a watch - To make for a common british solider like I would make for my husband Corporal Dappert of HM 64th of foot... I leave off the pockets. They have no money, they spend it all on drink!! I've used the Eagles view, their OK, but for me, I have to adjust. They run short in the crotch, and I have to take in the legs ALOT to get a proper SLIM LEG/Baboon behind, late 1700's fit. The Eagles view patterns are products of the bicenntenial and look more like plus fours/knickers (? All you men's clothing experts, is that the correct term? I'm thinking late 19, early to mid 20th cent. golfing wear thingy's) Legs run too bagg for proper Am Rev War fit. Other than that, they are OK. I don't try other company's cause I've gotten to wear I can adjust and make a pair very quickly. Technique I take from some of the williamsburg books - What clothes reveal and Costume Closeup. Fitting and Proper tto. Taken all togeth, they get a pretty good product. Not perfect, but they fit the 10 rule and look good at 10 feet away. Perfect reproductions now, that's my end goal, but for now...Practice Practice Mia in Charlotte, NC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 15:26:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SJQuml010898 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:26:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SJQAhL092486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:26:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SJRnXG012279; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SJRb0v012088 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:27:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.169] (pm5-169.eos.net [205.133.149.169]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5SJPjOt009655 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:25:45 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:17:48 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200506281753.j5SHrBwO024034@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/959/Mon Jun 27 17:00:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Juana X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ramona wrote: > Juana attacked her husband in a jealous rage with a pair of scissors. After > his death, she wouldn't part with his body. She took it everywhere. It was > finally taken from her by force. True, she may not have been mad, but she did > have anger management and separation anxiety issues..... > Ha ha! You convinced me. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 15:43:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SJhQ3a011012 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SJgG9L094261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:42:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SJhvgr024875; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:43:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SJhaiH024598 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:43:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853803C013 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:41:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4C4C7C662 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:41:48 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] ] "seeing error"...get my white cane Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:41:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <20050628175015.78168.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps sticking a tiny rhinestone on the N might help. :) De -----Original Message----- M & N are too close on the keyboard for my 52 yr old myopic and reading glasses needing eyeballs. spell check was apparently happy with matty. Errol Flynn was never "matty" even as the Pirate scoundrel. I am aware of the matty/natty difference....yucky/nice... just can't frickin' see.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 15:55:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SJtsLf015659 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:55:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SJsX1G095526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:54:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SJtl9Y034076; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:56:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SJswY9033390 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:55:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.11]) by mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IIT00GJS8HJMB10@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:51:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.38] (Forwarded-For: [4.250.174.121]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:52:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:52:29 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: ???? Re: [h-cost] h-costume added to Gmane To: Historical Costume Message-id: <420e3e4420c920.420c920420e3e4@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO is this for real??? Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- From: Gmane Administrator > With the permission of the list administrator, the h-costume mailing > list has been added to Gmane. This allows the mailing list to be read > as if it were a Usenet newsgroup. > > Gmane is a mail-to-news portal that never expires its messages. It > therefore also functions as a mailing list archive. It's a > bi-directional gateway, but Gmane verifies that its users' email > addresses are valid before passing the messages through the > news-to-mail gateway. (Groups can also be made "read-only", which > means that Gmane won't forward any messages at all to the mailing > list.) > > Gmane can encrypt addresses to make address harvesting difficult, and > heeds X-No-Archive and related headers. > > In partnership with The Mail Archive, messages will be archived on > that service as well. This provides redundancy across two archival > services. > > The following parameters are set for this mailing list: > > * Newsgroup name: gmane.culture.studies.history.costume > * Mailing list address: h-costume@mail.indra.com > * The gateway is bi-directional > * Address encryption is on > * Spam detection is on > * The list is described as: > "Historical Costume Mailing List" > * News URL: > news://news.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume * > Web URL: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume > > This newsgroup will be created when the first message from the > mailing list arrives. > > For more information about the Gmane project, go to > . > > For more information about The Mail Archive, go to > . > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 16:04:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SK44i8015734 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:04:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SK3IeW096436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:03:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SK34OB040281; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms040pub.verizon.net (vms040pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SK2YDw039880 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:02:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from vms074.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.3]) by vms040.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IIT0044D906IJH5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:02:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:02:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: mens 1770 pants To: Historical Costume Message-id: <15953147.1119988950510.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello >From: Mia Dappert >Date: Tue Jun 28 14:09:15 CDT 2005 >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: [h-cost] Re: mens 1770 pants > >Pockets are good, > >no pockets are good, > >you only need a watch pocket IF you actually have a watch - To make for a common british solider like I would make for my husband Corporal Dappert of HM 64th of foot... I leave off the pockets. They have no money, they spend it all on drink!! > >I've used the Eagles view, their OK, but for me, I have to adjust. They run short in the crotch, and I have to take in the legs ALOT to get a proper SLIM LEG/Baboon behind, late 1700's fit. The Eagles view patterns are products of the bicenntenial and look more like plus fours/knickers (? All you men's clothing experts, is that the correct term? I'm thinking late 19, early to mid 20th cent. golfing wear thingy's) Legs run too bagg for proper Am Rev War fit. Other than that, they are OK. I don't try other company's cause I've gotten to wear I can adjust and make a pair very quickly. Technique I take from some of the williamsburg books - What clothes reveal and Costume Closeup. Fitting and Proper tto. Taken all togeth, they get a pretty good product. Not perfect, but they fit the 10 rule and look good at 10 feet away. > >Perfect reproductions now, that's my end goal, but for now...Practice Practice > >Mia in Charlotte, NC > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 16:14:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SKEnAv015798 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:14:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SKD4N6097504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:13:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SKD0cf046407; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:13:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SKCr9p046271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:12:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5SK81lR002716 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:08:01 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:08:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42C1AF41.9010507@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:12:49 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: ???? Re: [h-cost] h-costume added to Gmane References: <420e3e4420c920.420c920420e3e4@optonline.net> In-Reply-To: <420e3e4420c920.420c920420e3e4@optonline.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO purplkat@optonline.net wrote: > is this for real??? The message doesn't throw any of my "bogus" dectectors. I haven't gone to go read it via News, though. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "I told Dru I'm laying down the law tonight." "A verb very close to her heart." -- Pibgorn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 16:15:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SKF2Xc015804 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:15:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SKDh6x097585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SKDhSq046999; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SKDcSl046944 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:13:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from vms074.mailsrvcs.net ([192.168.1.3]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IIT008PJ9IPENP0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:13:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:13:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: mens 1770 pants To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4674261.1119989617876.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would definetly go with pockets. All the originals I have seen have had them. They also make the garment far more useful, and reduce the likelihood that the man will have to carry around a haversack as if it was a purse! Labor is cheap in the 18th century. Cloth is not, but not much is needed for pockets. The interiors can easily be made from cabbage. Besides, living in 18th century clothes as I do, I am perturbed whenever I have clothes without the proper pockets. No where to keep all the stuff you got to carry! I would suggest Janice Ryan's pattern, though a muslin might be necessary. I am told that there are some sizing issues, though I recall none. I have used both. The Eagle's view pattern is not very well researched and it has some serious fitting issues (though none that can not be resolved). I would add the watch pocket. They often exist on extant garments. It might cause him if he gets a watch to wear it in the right place (instead of his waistcoat). Lastly watches must be more prevelent than is generally thought, otherwies a poor man like me would never be able to have purchased two. To many survive for me to believe that they are all that rare. Of course I do not recall what the original intention of these breeches was? Ron Carnegie > >Pockets are good, > >no pockets are good, > >you only need a watch pocket IF you actually have a watch - To make for a common british solider like I would make for my husband Corporal Dappert of HM 64th of foot... I leave off the pockets. They have no money, they spend it all on drink!! > >I've used the Eagles view, their OK, but for me, I have to adjust. They run short in the crotch, and I have to take in the legs ALOT to get a proper SLIM LEG/Baboon behind, late 1700's fit. The Eagles view patterns are products of the bicenntenial and look more like plus fours/knickers (? All you men's clothing experts, is that the correct term? I'm thinking late 19, early to mid 20th cent. golfing wear thingy's) Legs run too bagg for proper Am Rev War fit. Other than that, they are OK. I don't try other company's cause I've gotten to wear I can adjust and make a pair very quickly. Technique I take from some of the williamsburg books - What clothes reveal and Costume Closeup. Fitting and Proper tto. Taken all togeth, they get a pretty good product. Not perfect, but they fit the 10 rule and look good at 10 feet away. > >Perfect reproductions now, that's my end goal, but for now...Practice Practice > >Mia in Charlotte, NC > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 17:09:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SL99A5016330 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:09:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SL8EZL003307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SL85dW086990; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:08:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SL81QZ086904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.12.9/Submit) id j5SL80sw086883 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:08:00 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: ???? Re: [h-cost] h-costume added to Gmane Message-ID: <20050628210759.GE71745@net.indra.com> References: <420e3e4420c920.420c920420e3e4@optonline.net> <42C1AF41.9010507@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <42C1AF41.9010507@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apprently there were several people who requested the additional form of access to the list's wonderful information. Gmane is very highly respected by people I trust, so I've approved the request for gatewaying. ...eliz -- Children are made up of genetics, blind luck, and the stories you tell them. - The Flying Ks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 17:23:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SLNJjj016500 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SLMEmd004758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:22:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SLM75K097083; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:22:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SLM2JR096965 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:22:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.81.2a889f56 (25711) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:21:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <81.2a889f56.2ff31965@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:21:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Juana To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/28/2005 3:28:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gailscott@eos.net writes: Juana attacked her husband in a jealous rage with a pair of scissors. After > his death, she wouldn't part with his body. She took it everywhere. It was > finally taken from her by force. True, she may not have been mad, but she did > have anger management and separation anxiety issues..... > Ha ha! You convinced me. Royalty! Sheesh! Of course she was being used. And in a era where alcoholism was considered madness, her neurotic behavior was "madness" too. And the COSTUMES are good too...... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 17:56:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SLuom5016806 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:56:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SLu3A4008725 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:56:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SLtxwv023565; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:56:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.202.59]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SLttwa023476 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from osmanthus@comcast.net) Received: from AmyPC (c-24-218-29-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.29.62]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <20050628215549014004keohe>; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:55:49 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c57c2c$28ca50c0$6501a8c0@AmyPC> From: "Amy Butler Greenfield" To: "Historical Costume" References: <42C16CA9.5090500@lavoltapress.com><8C74A15009FE563-924-111A5@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> <42C17E12.9040400@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:55:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I researched Juana la loca while writing my history of cochineal. Her story is fascinating, and I'm not surprised it's been made into a movie -- though it sounds like the cinematic version strays pretty far from the known facts. Although it's certainly true that accusations of insanity could be a convenient way to strip a woman of power, in the case of Juana the signs of instability were quite extreme. It may well have been her philandering husband who pushed her beyond the brink, but after he died her behavior only became more erratic. As others have already noted, she insisted on touring Spain with her husband's casket, which most people considered rather odd. But what really made Europe talk was the fact that she kept insisting that her servants open up the casket so that she could see his dead body. As far as we can tell, this macabre story was true. It was also true that Juana was not the only Iberian royal to suffer from madness. The inbred houses of Portugal and Spain regularly produced individuals who suffered from what was then termed extreme "melancholia." In fact it happened so often that madness was seen as the great curse of the house of Spain. (I should add that some people considered the enormous Habsburg jaw a curse, too.) As for her male relatives wanting to pack her away for political motives, Juana's father didn't have any reason to do this, since he was king of Spain at the time, and by law he was bound to remain so until his death. And her son, Carlos (later Charles V), doesn't seem to have played any role in the decision to remove his mother from public life: he was only a small child when Juana retired to Tordesillas. Charles and most of his sisters were raised by his aunt in the Netherlands, but the youngest sister, Catalina, was raised by Juana at Tordesillas. Although the child was unhappy, no one dared take her away, for fear of seeing Juana lose her mind entirely. And to bring this all back to some kind of costume-related note, I'll note that a contemporary source says that the Princess Catalina was said to have dressed far below her station, wearing nothing but a sheepskin jacket "worth less than two ducats" over her plain shift. Amy G. Amy Butler Greenfield www.amybutlergreenfield.com cochineal@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 18:12:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SMC52T016990 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:12:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SM7SW7009912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SM7QdA031503; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:07:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SM7NDM031386 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:07:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jacquelinejbump@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i1so524875nzh for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:07:18 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Sphe0vRkq671kgvBDVWrui3mzkses1A6SUodm8/tCLizdW4ztse6oFDgSAufEE7dEGTfAOkiK/6CW8UT5FflucXYy3zvdmub5tc00oTcs7iGebGNH+NbZOSW6CzAYcf9thsOz/HsD5o5eo4hxgi25y6m5CB68UHyXjC4h9zjjYU= Received: by 10.36.224.80 with SMTP id w80mr5056744nzg; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.105.14 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:06:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4c5accc80506281506a72451b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:06:51 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5SM7NDM031386 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think Juana was any more or less nuts than any other female of her time. As for opening the coffin...she wasn't alone in that. It seems to have been fairly common to look on the body of the beloved. (think of the catacombs) Now yes we think of it as gruesome. But also keep in mind her father had her declared insane to gain control of her lands and monarchy and her underage children. Throw in more than likely veneral disease from her lovely hubby and you have sure signs of some untreated clinical depression gone badly wrong. Be sure also to check out: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kvenjb/madmon.htm Great pages of other Mad Monarchs including Juana. Bice _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 18:30:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SMUmmS017183 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:30:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SMTgVq012096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:29:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SMTd0h047007; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:29:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (esmtp.socket.net [216.106.88.132]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SMTZn6046955 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:29:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 361723C16B for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:29:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B6215D42E for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:29:34 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Juana la Loca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:29:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <002701c57c2c$28ca50c0$6501a8c0@AmyPC> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone think that maybe this was her way of say she finally gets him all to herself? Due to politics of the time and the mysterious deaths of nobility I would say keeping on your toes 24/7 can drive you a bit crazy. Look at James of Scotland. De Just because your paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out there to get you. -----Original Message----- Europe talk was the fact that she kept insisting that her servants open up the casket so that she could see his dead body. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 18:48:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SMmRYO017360 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:48:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SMlfpN014034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:47:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SMle0i059734; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:47:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SMlYnc059619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:47:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gcshc-h-costume@gmane.org) Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1DnOkX-0002VD-1U for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:40:13 +0200 Received: from 66.7.170.6 ([66.7.170.6]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:40:12 +0200 Received: from eadmund42 by 66.7.170.6 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:40:12 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: h-costume@net.indra.com From: Robert Uhl Subject: Re: ???? Re: [h-cost] h-costume added to Gmane Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:36:21 -0600 Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <420e3e4420c920.420c920420e3e4@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.7.170.6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:J8SbcADWjksG66jGk/yG6wG+Ook= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO purplkat@optonline.net writes: > > is this for real??? It sure is--I'm reading the mailing list on nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume from within gnus right now. Granted gnus makes mailing lists look pretty news-like as it stands, but gmane's still nicer. Also, its archives are supposed to be pretty good. It's even possible to import the old archives, but I don't believe that I requested that. On a more clothing-related note, I finally finished my Elizabethan doublet, slops & netherstocks. Approx. two months of handsewing, and a project which I had put off for the last four or five years. Not nearly as much pain as I'd been led to believe. I'll post a link to some pics when I finally get some taken. My one quibble is with the codpiece: the pattern I used is _not_ at all decent. So I need to fix that. Otherwise things went very well indeed. Slashing with a 5/8" chisel worked very well--there are four different types of slashing on the doublet (one for the body; one for the collar; one for the wings; and one for the skirt), and one for the slops. My one regret is that the interlining is rather boring--next time I'll use the structural fabric for the lining and the pretty fabric for the interlining, so that it shows through the slashes. The doublet & slops are lined in a light blue dupioni silk, with a somewhat stiff & heavy beige cotton lining and a black wool body. I'm not familiar enough with fabric to be certain (I'm a real amateur!), but I believe that it's a tabby weave--very lightweight fabric, heavier than a suiting but lighter than most wool. The closest I can come to describing it is as a kind of woolen broadcloth. Wish I could find some more, to tell the truth, and in more colours. -- Robert Uhl Mailserver lockup. Error message boggles mind. Oh well. Beer is cold. --Jason Wright _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 19:24:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SNO1E8017720 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:24:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SNNIan017533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SNNFkD082865; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc13.comcast.net (sccrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.202.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SNNBqn082768 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:23:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from osmanthus@comcast.net) Received: from AmyPC (c-24-218-29-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[24.218.29.62]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc13) with SMTP id <2005062823230601600i24f2e>; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:23:06 +0000 Message-ID: <005501c57c38$5a2c9090$6501a8c0@AmyPC> From: "Amy Butler Greenfield" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:23:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a quick correction to my earlier post about Juana la loca: Officially her father Ferdinand was merely the King of Aragon. When his wife Isabella died in 1504 her title of Queen of Castile went to Juana. But in practice Ferdinand ruled all of Spain, and this was the case even when Juana was still regarded as essentially sane. It apparently took years to persuade Juana to give up her husband's body, and her courtiers had strong words to say about the smell of the casket whenever it was opened, to say nothing of the state of the contents inside. For a glimpse of her husband (Philip Hermoso) in better days, in all his finery: http://barbarina5.tripod.com/Images/PhilipHermoso.jpg Amy G. Amy Butler Greenfield www.amybutlergreenfield.com cochineal@comcast.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 19:52:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5SNq758018083 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:52:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5SNp7jN020183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:51:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SNp412099016; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:51:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SNp14X098941 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:51:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.20c.3cecfb0 (25711) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:50:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <20c.3cecfb0.2ff33c5b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:50:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 6/28/2005 7:24:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, osmanthus@comcast.net writes: http://barbarina5.tripod.com/Images/PhilipHermoso.jpg Que Hermoso....NOT He certainly doesn't look like this in the film. He looks like Fabio. Well, y'know, period aesthetics. Also in the film they clearly imply his nose is not his largest feature. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 20:23:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5T0NBJP018444 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5T0JQVm022241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:19:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T0JOZb014889; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:19:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T0JLSi014788 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:19:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r1.7.) id 6.d.472fd74a (57341) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:19:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:19:12 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: mens 1770 pants X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Definitely go for the pockets - many originals I've seen have them. Can't recommend a pattern cos I always cut my own (sorry :-) ) Debs PS - It's knickerbockers - knickers are panties! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 21:42:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5T1goZM019253 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:42:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5T1aqdR028470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:36:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T1amPO054915; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:36:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.62]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T1ahXT054883 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:36:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.102]) by pop-altamira.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1DnRVL-0001ok-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:36:43 -0400 Message-ID: <42C1FB2B.20501@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:36:43 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca-La Nef music for Joan the mad References: <005501c57c38$5a2c9090$6501a8c0@AmyPC> In-Reply-To: <005501c57c38$5a2c9090$6501a8c0@AmyPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You might be interested in this album by La Nef. The music supposedly belonged to her. http://www.la-nef.com/la_nef_angl.html#Music%20for%20Joan%20the%20Mad You can listen to some of it at Amazon.com *http://tinyurl.com/bsa7s* > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Jun 28 23:24:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5T3ODtr020417 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 23:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5T3N9Hs037350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T3N5vx007162; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:23:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T3N1W6007084 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.240]) by mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050629032255.CDXN21916.mta203-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:22:55 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([222.152.201.36]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050629032255.HAQO8463.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:22:55 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.323 [267.8.6]); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:23:04 +1200 Message-ID: <007001c57c59$dca45d20$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050628174232.99284.qmail@web32910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: flipper feet and odd waists was Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:23:03 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought it was about time to change the subject heading as I was deleting these posts without realising the content had changed from the heading;) > You missed the sign up for the"short waist club";~> > My "length betwen my waist and hip bones is about 2 > finger widths(1-1 1/2"?) try fitting that! Heheh, I have the same issue;) In my case though it's due to very tall hips (the measurement around my belly button is not much small that around the "saddlebag" region and then my waist is much smaller than that. Fitting trousers is an absolute nightmare. The one style I can wear is a stretch bootleg that sits at about the hipbones and has no fasteners. I have tried and tried any number of other styles and they just make me look asolutely awful. Even these I can pull up over my waist for a very dorky look;) My apparent waist is in balance if you ignore the big upper hips though, and then again my fitted garb migrates to the tops of my hips as my ribs end barely above the hip bone, thus the ares of best squishability is right there. Not an issue for my Spanish stuff (boning and the need for that length) but for my German garb it is due to no boning.. > Was tempted to learn how to make shoes also, I have > narrow heels and "duck" feet....oh and I posses an > extra set of ankle bones ,on the inside of my feet,so > they all rub an the extras...I only wear suede if I > can,it gives. Snap;) At least I'm guessing you mean feet like little flippers;) I am giving serious thought to making my own 16thC German foorwear, they are very cute and should be relatively easy. I just need to make myself a last... or two due to the whole flipper issue and toe shape. Hey these shoes are ideal for flipper feet! They get really wide at the toes anyway;) > At least with costumes,you can tailor the clothes to > your particular "pecidillos". > Or pick an era that suits your body type. This is also true! Late 15thC Flemish/Lowlands and late 16thC Spanish are my best friends;) And funnily enough the natural form era due to leg length and length of torso;) michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com Luckily no flippers in sight;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.6/33 - Release Date: 28/06/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 29 00:09:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5T491RE020957 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:09:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5T47ZBm041055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T47FAc027192; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:07:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5T479iA027126 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 22:07:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5T47M57013369 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:07:22 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.49.73] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-73.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.73]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5T472I9341404 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 00:07:07 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050628205739.0260e130@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:06:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: flipper feet and odd waists was Re: [h-cost] Wearing skirts over pants In-Reply-To: <007001c57c59$dca45d20$0301010a@michaela> References: <20050628174232.99284.qmail@web32910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >My apparent waist is in balance if you ignore the big upper hips though, and >then again my fitted garb migrates to the tops of my hips as my ribs end >barely above the hip bone, thus the ares of best squishability is right >there. Not an issue for my Spanish stuff (boning and the need for that >length) but for my German garb it is due to no boning.. I usually fit the lower edges of my Renaissance bodices above my actual waist, right at which is a roll of extra me. That way my bodices sit comfortably on top of that roll and don't ride up. I never have to tug them down to my actual waist, which is an un-ladylike thing to do anyway. It does make me look a little short-waisted, which has the effect of making my legs look longer, which is a plus. And the slight point at the front of the bottom of the bodice, and the lines of trim converging at that point, make me look as narrow-waisted as I'm ever going to look at 225#. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 29 08:30:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5TCU6nJ027963 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:30:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5TCTD6h088033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:29:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5TCT50D034464; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 06:29:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SMFXWW037238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 16:15:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-242.sonic.net [209.148.114.242]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5SMFW1l024233 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:15:33 -0700 Message-ID: <42C1CC0B.7030502@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:15:39 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Juana la Loca References: <42C16CA9.5090500@lavoltapress.com><8C74A15009FE563-924-111A5@mblk-d46.sysops.aol.com> <42C17E12.9040400@lavoltapress.com> <002701c57c2c$28ca50c0$6501a8c0@AmyPC> In-Reply-To: <002701c57c2c$28ca50c0$6501a8c0@AmyPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > As for her male relatives wanting to pack her away for political > motives, Juana's father didn't have any reason to do this, since he > was king of Spain at the time, and by law he was bound to remain so > until his death. I thought Juana's father was king of Aragon; but that Isabella was queen of Castile and that Castile passed to Isabella's children (in this case Juana) rather than to Isabella's husband/Juana's father, or to Juana's husband. Also that if there was any ambiguity in a royal inheritance of the period, or any perceived power vacuum, the most aggressive likely parties made a grab for the throne. > And her son, Carlos (later Charles V), doesn't seem to have played any > role in the decision to remove his mother from public life: he was > only a small child when Juana retired to Tordesillas. Yes. But as far as I know Charles benefited from his mother's continued removal from public life; he did not attempt to reinstate her, or to bring her back from seclusion even without political power attached. > > > Charles and most of his sisters were raised by his aunt in the > Netherlands, but the youngest sister, Catalina, was raised by Juana at > Tordesillas. Although the child was unhappy, no one dared take her > away, for fear of seeing Juana lose her mind entirely. Which means that they didn't think her mind was already entirely lost. > And to bring this all back to some kind of costume-related note, I'll > note that a contemporary source says that the Princess Catalina was > said to have dressed far below her station, wearing nothing but a > sheepskin jacket "worth less than two ducats" over her plain shift. > I haven't read it in a long time, but I think the book listed below discusses Juana's wardrobe while in exile: Anderson, Ruth Matilda. /Hispanic Costume 1480–1530./ New York: Hispanic Society of America, 1979. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 29 10:20:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5TEKQ6g029522 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:20:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5TEJTUv097160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:19:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5TEJQJM094977; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:19:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5TEJKaW094887 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:19:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.152] (pm5-152.eos.net [205.133.149.152]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j5TEJ9Ot018179 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:19:13 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:11:13 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200506282215.j5SMFgZj037321@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Empire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did anyone catch "Empire" last night, the new series on ancient Rome? HA HA HA HA. I really couldn't stand it long enough to comment on the costumes. But "Tyrannus" (that very common Latin name) looks a lot like Mike the Plumber from "Desperate Housewives," sexy stubble beard and all. And the clueless young guy who was supposed to be the future emperor, whatever his name was, looked like any teen heartthrob actor, except that he DIDN'T have a sexy stubble beard. That's for when he's older and more cynical, I guess. I give it another week or two for that to appear. All ancient Romans, as usual, sound like upper-class British people. In the little bit I saw, only Anthony looked like an actual Roman person. He could have been a statue come to life. Again, I can't comment on the accuracy of the armor or uniform, because I just couldn't watch it long enough. Maybe I should have turned off the sound? For all this was touted as a revolutionary series, I thought it was a bad combination of Masterpiece Theater and your typical American TV drama. Oh well, another opportunity lost! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 29 11:58:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5TFwaQR031146 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:58:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5TFvbR9009989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:57:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5TFvX9Y070938; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:57:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5TFvRAP070854 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:57:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18836 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:57:26 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Empire Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:57:23 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Empire Thread-Index: AcV8tZiU2wPVKQgHShetFCROwxMq9AADCOSQ From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5TFvRAP070854 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I caught some of it, and yes, the main actors always fall into the current aesthetic of what looks attractive now. Usually you have to check the extras in the background to get a more authentic look historically. When I first heard about this series and heard the title "Empire" I thought either the Napoleonic Enpire or the British Empire as both are more historic costume interesting. Flame me if I'm wrong but what I saw of the women's costumes and hairstyles looked less the Rome of Caesar and more Hollywood's idea of what the women should look like. Must be maddenly frustrating for the designers, hairstylists, and makeup people who do all of the research and then have to water it down to meet current attractive aesthetics. We have all this increased knowledge of correct historical costume, but sometimes things remain as historically inaccurate as early silent movie costume dramas. Cindy Abel cynthiaabel@creighton.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 29 13:13:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5THDEaX032052 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5THC3Lt019607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:12:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5THBxJD033839; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.75]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j5THBpLh033667 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:11:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from snappylunch_2001@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 99549 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Jun 2005 17:11:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=c3PD8qPqUUx0GeyDRKJhI1tuJt5C4Vg3g8Ev7hhq4euOFvCQjmSYJXR0OI0BbPbFIm/412JSDa6nGLiPrnI1M3ER0PgY9DbId8Y/PBwZo8o5sAibPDa+knNP6uMlxLrRxkFqNZoe3OTzW/0pZWOQ30JdcV10Qs/TjtiOulG6D78= ; Message-ID: <20050629171143.99547.qmail@web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.4.90.6] by web30102.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:11:43 PDT Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 10:11:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Mia Dappert To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200506282216.j5SMFgZk037321@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: mens 1770 pants X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mens britches with pockets? Pretty much all the time? It was hard enough to agitate for proper tailoring and fitting, and we still have a long way to go with that. Drats, now I'll have to do some actual work. So many things to reseach, so little time. mia in charlotte, just back from Williamsburg, VA, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 29 16:50:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5TKoBfk002399 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5TKjT2v043470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:45:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5TKgadU003655; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:42:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5TKgW4S003536 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:42:27 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:41:40 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/960/Tue Jun 28 22:31:06 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Empire X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did anyone catch "Empire" last night, the new series on ancient Rome? HA HA HA HA. Oh well, another opportunity lost! Gail Finke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. And I distinctly caught some music riffs from the Gladiator soundtrack, sigh. The one positive costume note I saw was that they did seem to be using real linen for some of the costumes, or at least something that looked very close to it. Isn't there supposed to be another Roman themed series on HBO or Showtime? Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Jun 29 21:34:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5U1Y6Tx006085 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:34:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5U1TZEu073506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:29:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5U1TVPC095234; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:29:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5U1TQF5095193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5U1OXlR021523 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:24:34 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42C34AF4.6090303@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:29:24 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume notes 1662 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excerpts: http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/06/29/index.php "To church with my wife, who this day put on her green petticoat of flowred satin, with fine white and gimp lace of her own putting on, which is very pretty." http://www.pepysdiary.com/archive/1662/06/22/index.php "This day I first put on my slasht doublet, which I like very well." -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "I told Dru I'm laying down the law tonight." "A verb very close to her heart." -- Pibgorn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 30 00:24:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5U4Oa2S008730 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5U4Nh4Z091495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5U4NcwU084242; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:23:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5U4NYqr084187 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from oemcomputer.mn.rr.com (CPE-24-26-191-39.mn.res.rr.com [24.26.191.39]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j5U47GwO012831 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:07:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Sender: dannw@pop-server.mn.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:15:37 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists In-Reply-To: <42C192F1.2010200@thibault.org> References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:12 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: >I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the hem >hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the skirts >properly. > >-- >Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits in the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over the top of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width of the waistband, sometimes more. Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 30 00:43:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5U4hqnY009033 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:43:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5U4hBv8092764 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:43:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5U4h8fo092812; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:43:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5U4h5Ox092788 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:43:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j5U4h2pH020633 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:43:02 -0400 Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-49-73.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.49.73]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j5U4gv0d006436 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:43:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050629213839.026e3280@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:39:30 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <42C192F1.2010200@thibault.org> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the hem >>hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the skirts >>properly. >>You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that >>problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits in >>the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over the top >>of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width of the >>waistband, sometimes more. Several of us have the same problem. Fortunately it is correctable if you make your own skirts for historicals. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 30 07:30:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5UBUFmu015910 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:30:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5UBTImV034991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:29:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UBTDPN065435; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:29:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from mail03.powweb.com (mail03.powweb.com [66.152.97.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UBT9u3065385 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:29:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from megan@benchite.com) Received: from megan2 (pcp06952326pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net [69.140.8.214]) by mail03.powweb.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147EF15C81 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 04:29:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Megan M." To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:27:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcV9K54hj94ylg4xTGGdjRpwQzTt+QAOtOJg Message-Id: <20050630112908.147EF15C81@mail03.powweb.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it is more common than you think - I have the same issue. The waistbands on my scrubs come up almost to my bra in front. And I don't know why they cut them so high. *sigh* I guess that's why I like to sew. -Megan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 30 07:38:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5UBcxcX016096 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:38:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5UBbxXi035564 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UBbwUG069277; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:37:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UBbpZ1069230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:37:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j5UBWxlR025070 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:32:59 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42C3D98D.40602@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:37:49 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: >> I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the >> hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the >> skirts properly. > You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that > problem, like me. There are plenty of fat women (like me) who I see, who don't realize this; their skirts hang lower in the front! I jumper-dresses avoid the problem, though. I have a few in-process. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "I told Dru I'm laying down the law tonight." "A verb very close to her heart." -- Pibgorn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 30 09:24:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5UDOC06017519 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5UDNAjM042638 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:23:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UDN7DA019868; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:23:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UDN4Lj019833 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:23:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m94.in-tch.com [216.166.191.94]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j5UDHeq07929 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:17:40 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <42C3F397.3050900@in-tch.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:28:55 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists References: <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050628180241.21184.qmail@web32913.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20050629231348.00c04730@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <42C3D98D.40602@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <42C3D98D.40602@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That could be a more-butt-in-back-and-less-tummy-in-front issue, as well. My skirts (historical or otherwise) need more hemming in back than the front/sides, because I carry most of my abdominal weight in front, and I have pretty good hips, structurally. But little butt (got the family "hatchet @ss"). It's even more noticeable in a jumper-dress or a long coat, because then the "girls" make things worse. Even if I were an appropriate size, I wouldn't be able to wear low-riders...when I get pants on which the waistband actually sits on my waist, I end up looking a bit like Marcel Marceau, as I have a really, really long rise (waist is right under my boobs....makes it interesting fitting things sometimes with such a short back-waist length). It never caused much of an issue with the historical clothing I've made, although I've never tried any of the looks with elongated bodices, since I have to make my own patterns anyway. About the only time I notice is with earlier-period construction, if I'm putting in side-gores that start at the waist and not the hips. I have to be careful to see that my side gores don't run right into my underarm gussets! ;o) --sue Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: > >>> I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the >>> hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the >>> skirts properly. > > >> You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that >> problem, like me. > > > There are plenty of fat women (like me) who I see, who don't realize > this; their skirts hang lower in the front! > > I jumper-dresses avoid the problem, though. I have a few in-process. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Jun 30 11:36:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j5UFaA1H019648 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j5UFZIbI056365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:35:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UFZDvm011079; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:35:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UFZ2kY010862 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:35:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@earthlink.net) Received: from cpe-24-221-40-235.az.sprintbbd.net ([24.221.40.235] helo=[192.168.1.103]) by pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1Do149-00073g-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:35:01 -0400 Message-ID: <42C4112A.9090802@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:35:06 -0700 From: Wicked Frau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Empire References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know. I guess to me, irrespective of any accuracy, it is a whole lot better than another 'reality' show. How many of us were introduced to history through less than accurate sources? I know I spent most of my youth absorbed in Greek and Roman mythology....I eventually found my way to "true" history. I rather like some of the casting choices. Cicero and Caesar for instance. Sg > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Jul 1 11:30:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (www1.indra.com [204.144.142.3]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j61FU1b7010806 for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j61FT9Jq007034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:29:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j61FT4VW070035; Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:29:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@net.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j5UIAvNk037591 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:11:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_26305)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14426 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:10:54 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Empire Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:10:47 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Empire Thread-Index: AcV9iVaqGz1dgXqGSza+St+Axemh2gAEtLLw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/963/Fri Jul 1 07:27:29 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86/961/Thu Jun 30 09:34:15 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j5UIAvNk037591 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, if your brain is research-wired, better bad than none at all. At least if it gets you involved and you start questioning this and that--sort of a bad road that gets you there anyway. My parents bought a kind of what we could call now an encyclopedia for "tweens" now, called "The Wonderland of Knowledge" in the late '50's, shortly after I was born, along with a Colliers' set of adult encyclopedias plus the Year Books for several years. Sort of the closest thing to a multimedia education in those days. I spent many happy hours, especially during the summer months, between the ages of 9-12 studying the reproductions of Victorian costume history illustrations of people like Mary, Queen of Scots and the Empress Josephine in "The Wonderland of Knowledge." Would love to hunt down pics of the original paintings today as inaccurate as they might be to my better educated eyes forty years later. There was a Victorian era genre painting of a melancholy Mary, Queen of Scots, seated, holding something that looked more like an ornate rattle(perhaps some kind of rhythmn-keeper to the music) as David Rizzio plays the lute. It was maybe painted in the 1890's as Mary(as I recall)wore a full wagon wheel ruff, more suited to a 17th century Dutch upperclass woman, leg of mutton 1890's sleeves, the corseted, small waist-wide shoulders, wide skirt of the 1890's and probably the "Marie Stuart" cap. Another was the Empress Josephine, overcome with emotion, her head on an Empire(or the Victorian idea of one)chair, the rest of her becomingly drapped between chair and floor, with Napoleon looking regreatfully back at her as he opens the door to leave the room, after announcing he has to divorce her for the sake of the succession. Josephine appears no older than her twenties in the reprod of this painting, while Napoleon looks like he stepped out of one of his paintings in military dress, post becoming Emperor(sans the hand inside the jacket and vest pose--after all he has to open said door in the painting!) Cindy Abel cynthiaabel@creighton.edu -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Wicked Frau Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 10:35 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Empire I don't know. I guess to me, irrespective of any accuracy, it is a whole lot better than another 'reality' show. How many of us were introduced to history through less than accurate sources? I know I spent most of my youth absorbed in Greek and Roman mythology....I eventually found my way to "true" history. I rather like some of the casting choices. Cicero and Caesar for instance. Sg > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume