From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 09:40:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81DeHCB013662 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:40:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81DdWlE093792 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:39:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81DdSNE073525; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:39:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81DdP5d073484 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:39:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so154289rne for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=qgJmsDghb91v5HsHF2khBu5fQixJ5k2t5pM4uBvFaAOyldDA+gKkESF638Kao3+nBMpOveNTeUrkQdXRyqSjX4V/bLtQdrdtgqmH33tu96CiXHQFlMDsQKi2HlCnOWKs+Ut5z0NMLUqdF4Sc0wbVQtj5GgcbCr8x7lV49wowxfM= Received: by 10.38.78.45 with SMTP id a45mr17831rnb; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.101.56 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 06:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc26605090106395175bcdb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:39:24 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: Gores In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <72adc266050831155525e0f6cb@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1050/Thu Sep 1 02:26:43 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1050/Thu Sep 1 02:26:43 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j81DeHCB013662 Status: RO Hi folks... good discussion here... thanks, > Just how many extant garments do we have to make that assumption on? I > > would personally think that gores varied ... some pointy, some not. > > I didn't say "no gores in the 13th century are sharp." I said it's a > mistake > to assume, from the evidence we have, that sharpness of gores was > considered an important workmanship issue, or that medieval methods would, > if properly done, necessarily produce sharp gores. Excellent point - and one on which many re-creators, re-enactors get stuck. It's a point where the modern aesthetic conflicts with the medieval evidence. but I haven't seen evidence that they had any motivation to do this. Let me look through my resources... it'll be an interesting thing to go look for. One area that is a bit later than medieval is the Tudor and Elizabethan shirt, in these we tend to see very precise stitching and setting in of gores and godets. My point is this: hallelujah! Yes... it is true that many people assume that a flat or even tucked gore is wrong. And it is true that there are only a few of us out there that teach this alternative to the masses, but as you know education is a process... and I have faith that one day the balance will tip so that the "common wisdom" comes more in line with actual evidence. Until then, we keep teaching. But we have absolutely no reason to think that flat, sharp gore points were > valued, and what > little data we have seems to suggest otherwise. This I would point out is arguable, mainly because we do have so little data to work with. We do know that longevity and wearability would be valued... so if someone was to use a non-flat topped gore, it would be to their benefit, and help the life of the garment to make that insertion to the best of their ability. but I typically hear the "razor-sharp gore point" presented as a quality of > accurate or well-made garb, Well, it is a quality of well made clothing. If that is what you are going for. As to accuracy, I think we have a new question to investigate, just what type of gore/godet was used when? I wouldn't be surprised, for instance, to find out that some judges at SCA > costume competitions would grade people down for gores with rounded tops or > slight pleats, under the assumption that it's badworkmanship. I agree with you, and again that would be the triumph of the modern aesthetic over the actual. But it could also be for a lack of knowledge... so we have another place to educate. Now this crosses over into a far broader topic... one that I've been starting to address at my lectures. The battle between the modern aesthetic and period construction. It's been an interesting area of research. > "this is good sewing technique" without realizing that the garments *of > the period they're teaching* show no evidence of those methods (e.g. > gathered sleeve caps, French seam finishing, stay-stitching, facings, > pattern matching -- and other techniques that were valued in some periods > but not in others). In this instance, and in many others, ISTM that if you approach the > construction of a garment using the materials and techniques available to > the person of the period you're reconstructing and consistent with the known > evidence, you're likely to come to different conclusions about what > makes sense and what works well than you would if you use modern > techniques and materials. I'll take this one step further. Working with accurate methods and materials does indeed give you a better understanding of the process. I highly recommend it. BUT you also need to approach the process with an open mind and without preconceptions. For example with needle and thread I can produce "sharp" gores and I have also produced rounded gores (a chemise) and Flat topped gores (the infamous Kielbasa dress), and pleated gores (a different chemise). It's not only about familiarity with the media, but working towards mastery. On that line, I've been thinking about the small pleat in the top of the St. > Louis shirt gore. There's no question that the shirt is well-made by a > person highly skilled at sewing, so I would assume the pleat is intentional. > I wonder if that slight pleating would make the gore wear better and work > better, because it would allow you to spread the body of the shirt a little > wider before encountering resistance at the stress point. If the gore is > perfectly flat, you can't open the angle of the slash quite as far (unless > you make the bottom of the gore correspondingly wider). With a flat gore, if you need to allow for a sizable amount expansion over a > short vertical distance from waist to hip, you need to make a fairly wide > angle, which commits you to a certain degree of width at the bottom. Making > the top of the gore a little flatter and wider, and taking up that excess > width in a small pleat, lets you get the sides of the finished gore further > apart in those top few inches without as much stress, and without requiring > more width at the bottom. > > Something else to try in an experiment... Interesting thinking. I'll be interested to see the findings from your experiments. Please do let us know. Meanwhile I'll do a bit of looking into the gore/godet timeline. -- Mari / Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 12:14:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81GEqjs015139 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:14:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81GDhMJ010786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81GDYtV078107; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:13:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81GDTeW077951 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:13:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z31so426702nzd for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:13:24 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=pGrAhuSgl0oy2aDZWsjCw71qgWu+/f1Y22TKKQ5iRzdDdcj/E+r29lceL+0faW1gSk4YniW2adtyTCraB6AvbM7o4I2NYP9n6PLbCvE7bLJIrvZ1P9n4ieG6EXkAWBORh7XNmWBp1h7Giq+OcEosQ+cZA/lYGTJSd232X8/zqDE= Received: by 10.36.250.44 with SMTP id x44mr1794271nzh; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.79.17 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:13:23 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1050/Thu Sep 1 02:26:43 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1050/Thu Sep 1 02:26:43 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j81GDTeW077951 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kimono styles (was: Sari ... Victorian) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:51 PM 8/31/2005, Kimiko wrote: >>The shinto wedding kimono is pure white (shiromoku = pure white). >When did Japanese wedding gowns become pure white? Or is it Shinto only? My >mom was Buddhist, not Shinto. When? I dont know. Presently in Tokyo, some women do as many as 4 outfits for a wedding, uchikake or tomosode formal kimono with mon (family crest), another in pure white for the shinto ceremony, a western gown and a suit or dress for leaving the festivities. That's 4, all for the same bride, same wedding. Zowie. >My mother's wedding kimono is dark, almost black IIRC, both in her wedding photos and what I remember when she wore it when I was a child for a fashion show on wedding gowns. I have yet to go through all her kimono stash in her house (I just found a pretty one for her funeral near the top), but I will this fall as I inventory everything. She had two large metal chests holding everything. Sounds like the mostly black one is a formal tomosode. (B/W only, is for attending funerals IIRC; mostly black w/ splash of color is for other formal, yet serious events.) I hesitate to respond further given that you've got the cultural & ethnic background. I do not. I merely lived there. My sympathies on your recent(?) loss. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 13:05:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81H5OLo017044 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:05:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81H4J8d016425 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81H4G0D017779; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:04:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts8.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81H4CZH017613 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:04:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.48.167.168]) by simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050901170406.OOUK28065.simmts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:04:06 -0400 Message-ID: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:04:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Skirt question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all! I'm wanting to make a skirt that looks like this one: http://ursus.smugmug.com/photos/33402851-L.jpg http://www.folkwear.com/120.html but I'm thinking it's kinda silly to buy a pattern for something that is essentially a series of strips of fabric, and I want mine to be much fuller than most of the commercial patterns look, as this will be used for a dance costume of the same style as the top picture. What I am wondering is if there is a formula for construction, such as: first strip is x long, second strip is double x, third strip is three or four x. (if that makes sense?) Once I have that, then I can figure out my yardage. Any input is appreciated. :-) Sheridan *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely. Ogden Nash _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 13:42:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81Hg18K017364 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:42:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81Hevag020243 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:40:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81HekQY045307; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:40:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81Heid4045287 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:40:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so206082rne for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:40:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=aMKii1q4GftBT5sQ3KACkB2i0W7a7NtY5s8HXnp9lxPElaCdywRFo1TrfT5x0KL3ahcicfGJoyMszszasQkml4MLyAZQe/kO1Ok5pxLfX/jwj2S4cgkRkg6UbKYILIdchfp2LgVsEGfesAf6UkKmd/e+tVAn8F8p5NvOJrAivOk= Received: by 10.38.97.72 with SMTP id u72mr126815rnb; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.101.56 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc26605090110401114037f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:40:43 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question In-Reply-To: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j81Hg18K017364 Status: RO Quick and dirty summary... Circle skirt with length to the bottom of your tush, waist opening "a little" larger than you need. Gather gently into a waistband... or elastic. Measure the bottom circumference of the first level. Multiply this by 2, 2.5, or 3 depending on how much gather you want. Write down this number for future reference, call it layer 2. Cut your strip for layer 2 to the length you need, gather it onto your first level. Use the number for Layer 2 multiply this by 2, 2.5, or 3 depending on how much gather you want. Repeat.... > I'm wanting to make a skirt that looks like this one: > http://ursus.smugmug.com/photos/33402851-L.jpg > http://www.folkwear.com/120.html > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 13:51:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81Hpe0D017523 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:51:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81HnQs6021107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:49:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81HnCtP051501; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j81Hn0ND051388 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:49:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 2952 invoked from network); 1 Sep 2005 17:48:15 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:48:15 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1045.67.188.164.116.1125596940.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> References: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hello all! > > I'm wanting to make a skirt that looks like this one: > http://ursus.smugmug.com/photos/33402851-L.jpg > http://www.folkwear.com/120.html > > but I'm thinking it's kinda silly to buy a pattern for something that is > essentially a series of strips of fabric, and I want mine to be much > fuller > than most of the commercial patterns look, as this will be used for a > dance > costume of the same style as the top picture. > > What I am wondering is if there is a formula for construction, such as: > first strip is x long, second strip is double x, third strip is three or > four x. (if that makes sense?) Once I have that, then I can figure out my > yardage. > > Any input is appreciated. :-) > > Sheridan Sheridan, I don't have a formula for you, but you may want to invest in a gathering or pleating foot for your machine. I am a purist and never thought to get a pleating foot or anything like that until my friend got a new version of my machine and I saw her catalog of additional options. Well, I went and bought a pleating foot and it is so awesome!! Once you learn how to thread it, it will make even pleats in a fraction of the time (and frustration) it would normally take. I assume a gathering foot would be the same for your project! Good luck! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 13:52:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81Hq7Dx017535 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81HoSEL021217 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81HoI4V052359; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:50:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81HoAE0052253 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:50:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from generys@blazemail.com) Received: from dm18.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9245D40660 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:50:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm18 Received: from marketing3 (69.38.51.209 [69.38.51.209]) by dm18.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm18.43147589.4ae9c for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:50:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQBKBEVDFz9JQ7uaCQIAAAAB,aec331d7c37875569dd53fef073e80c7 From: "Jennifer / Guenievre" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Skirt question Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:48:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 In-Reply-To: <72adc26605090110401114037f@mail.gmail.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcWvHIql/QrY99u7Sh22fHGdNLCjwAAAGn6g Message-Id: <20050901105004.7EBCB20@dm18.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j81HoAE0052253 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmm, now I'm thinking about making myself one of these for "normal" wear. Sewing question, though - wouldn't it be easier to gather from the bottom up? As in start with Tier 3 (or 4, depending on the skirt), gather that onto the next tier up, which then gets gathered onto the next tier up - seems like that way you wouldn't be trying to sew onto something that was already trying to fall into ruffles/gathers... Guenièvre > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > Behalf Of Marie Stewart > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:41 PM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question > > Quick and dirty summary... Circle skirt with length to the bottom of your > tush, waist opening "a little" larger than you need. Gather gently into a > waistband... or elastic. Measure the bottom circumference of the first > level. Multiply this by 2, 2.5, or 3 depending on how much gather you > want. > Write down this number for future reference, call it layer 2. Cut your > strip > for layer 2 to the length you need, gather it onto your first level. Use > the > number for Layer 2 multiply this by 2, 2.5, or 3 depending on how much > gather you want. Repeat.... > > > > I'm wanting to make a skirt that looks like this one: > > http://ursus.smugmug.com/photos/33402851-L.jpg > > http://www.folkwear.com/120.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 13:56:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81Hu5UE017597 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:56:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81HtAY8021694 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:55:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81Hsu4Z055605; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81Hsp9v055562 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EAtH00XZE-00067D; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:54:50 -0400 Message-ID: <00ca01c5af1e$427969a0$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:54:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Great News!!!!! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j81Hu5UE017597 Status: RO Thank you to ALL of your for your prayers, thoughts, and money sent to charities for the Hurricane victims. I spent three days on the phone with no sleep. I finally slept yesterday for 10 hours and still going strong. I have several great news to tell you but this one great part is so wonderful I am sending it in a message on its own. Please feel free to pass this one along to others to let them know there is hope. We thought my mom had lost her home because it was on the beach in Biloxi. But read what we found out today. Print off this message and then go to an image I put on the web at: www.costumegallery.com/momshouse.jpg If you are in IE browser, go to the lower right corner and some arrows will appear. Click on them. Look at the photo and read the rest of my message. We have been able to go on the NOAA's website www.noaa.gov . They have excellent aerial photos of all the houses and streets. The photos have been taken since the hurricane hit the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Look at the photo on my website. I downloaded it from the NOAA website and labeled it for you. We found my mom's house which is located close it the beach in Biloxi on the photos and can see that it is still standing. I drew a red circle around mom's house. A very old large stone hotel that was a block wide on the beach stopped the water from coming up to my mom's house. I drew a red square around hotel. This hotel saved all but the first two houses on Mom's street from getting damaged. It blocked the water. Funny the hotel hasn't been used in years, until this hurricane. Maybe they should use it in the levees in New Orleans. My mom's house is (not was) just outside the main gate to Keesler Air Force base. The Old Historic Biloxi Cemetery is just behind my Mom's house and 3/4 of it was not destroyed. BTW, my mom's house is about a half mile east from where the apartments with all the bodies that was first announced on the news. It is so funny, a man bought that old hotel and gutted one part of it, but left the part facing the beach in tack. He ran out of money, and quit work on it. The city wanted to tear it down. But the coastal residents fussed so much that the city didn't tear it down. A lot of memories were in that hotel from the Biloxi citizens. The irony of the hotel... my husband and I went disco dancing in their ballroom when we were dating 30 years ago. My sister met her first husband dancing in the hotel's ballroom. Thanks again, for listening. With all the bad news coming our of the Hurricane damaged areas, I thought you might wanted to hear some good news. I have more good news that I will send it in another message. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 13:59:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81Hx1TD017629 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:59:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81Hwba7022039 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:58:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81HwRK5058253; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81HwK93058146 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:58:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-13.sonic.net [209.148.113.13]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81HwIml006114 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:58:18 -0700 Message-ID: <4317413D.9030201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:58:21 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Broomstick skirts X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If anyone wants to _buy_ broomstick skirts (rather than make them) right now they are all over eBay for prices ranging from $10 to $40, the average being about $20. A search for "boho* skirts" (the * is to pick up both "boho" and "bohemian"), "gypsy skirts," "hippie skirts," or even "broomstick skirts" yields dozens and dozens of listings. I've been stocking up on them in all my favorite colors. My favorites are the plain fabric ones with gradient/dip dye/ombre. But there's a ton of calico print ones out there too (which I don't like, but lots of people do). Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 14:14:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81IEsIZ017835 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:14:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81IE3tJ023807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:14:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IDvWV069382; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IDkqu069217 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:13:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so213047rne for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:13:46 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=FheNt57+eeU1oYDHDKNVY1f58jPBFcrQpmfHb1L6ti0gr1XaBr8RSih83rNelO4DroXd2DjTsjHUME+sieLLt0poc41KE8HYMlSyxIgiu9al7xCtyAol1Vo7hWWFC/mvNlaGshaMFjnmF9JcaqUAUp3ANqn+OE1Vl/cPYZxSaxQ= Received: by 10.38.181.9 with SMTP id d9mr141024rnf; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.101.56 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc266050901111359b546c2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:13:46 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Great News!!!!! In-Reply-To: <00ca01c5af1e$427969a0$6800a8c0@Penny> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <00ca01c5af1e$427969a0$6800a8c0@Penny> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j81IEsIZ017835 Status: RO Dear Penny... This is surely one Blessing. I'm so happy for you. And I hope many more are coming in the days ahead. Sounds to me like that Hotel was put there for a reason... and maybe it's work isn't done yet. Thank you for sharing this joyous news with us. It helps. ::hugs:: Mari / Bridgette It is so funny, a man bought that old hotel and gutted one part of it, but > left the part facing the beach in tack. He ran out of money, and quit work > on it. The city wanted to tear it down. But the coastal residents fussed > so much that the city didn't tear it down. A lot of memories were in that > hotel from the Biloxi citizens. > > The irony of the hotel... my husband and I went disco dancing in their > ballroom when we were dating 30 years ago. My sister met her first husband > dancing in the hotel's ballroom. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 14:31:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81IVCsn018013 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:31:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81IUJ7e025544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:30:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IUHML081791; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:30:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IUECa081662 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:30:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 16so247329nzp for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:30:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=issBAf0JSCNVEkkl7xhdWYGWEQibten4T5HHdRICJ3KLGjsmhf5l5gmh03bFs22oawD+wFKpkOgZ6QHdVNuvn6jSfuLHF5Bz1UM4xmpD/IPbmmuWVsj3HcEj1HvvFm3/eDSM9RTNdr7PNRM6+aZjvVazzsOm0Z0a+JrFGPhyaj0= Received: by 10.36.221.73 with SMTP id t73mr1485127nzg; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.109.1 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:30:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:30:09 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question In-Reply-To: <1045.67.188.164.116.1125596940.squirrel@www.inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <1045.67.188.164.116.1125596940.squirrel@www.inreach.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j81IVCsn018013 Status: RO Try this: http://www.annabella.net/skirt.html -Irmgart (they also have a *fabulous* choli top pattern...not H-cost, but it's *incredible* and is even supportive for my size 44DDD chest) -Irmgart On 9/1/05, Diana Habra wrote: > > > > Hello all! > > > > I'm wanting to make a skirt that looks like this one: > > http://ursus.smugmug.com/photos/33402851-L.jpg > > http://www.folkwear.com/120.html > > > > but I'm thinking it's kinda silly to buy a pattern for something that is > > essentially a series of strips of fabric, and I want mine to be much > > fuller > > than most of the commercial patterns look, as this will be used for a > > dance > > costume of the same style as the top picture. > > > > What I am wondering is if there is a formula for construction, such as: > > first strip is x long, second strip is double x, third strip is three or > > four x. (if that makes sense?) Once I have that, then I can figure out > my > > yardage. > > > > Any input is appreciated. :-) > > > > Sheridan > > Sheridan, > > I don't have a formula for you, but you may want to invest in a gathering > or pleating foot for your machine. I am a purist and never thought to get > a pleating foot or anything like that until my friend got a new version of > my machine and I saw her catalog of additional options. > > Well, I went and bought a pleating foot and it is so awesome!! Once you > learn how to thread it, it will make even pleats in a fraction of the time > (and frustration) it would normally take. I assume a gathering foot would > be the same for your project! > > Good luck! > > Diana > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 14:35:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81IZQuR018065 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:35:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81IYpZW025964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:34:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IYg6X085154; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:34:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IYICN084743 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:34:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i31so175378wra for ; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:34:13 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ZseX4A9V5Sg5jChYgT4rWuJbaGftnb8Kkq+2bAadWDeSFZ2CiEn8bgciyupkVA24Q4aZOUhz2i6XXHRpwO7PCJYaF7psIjwu5N491ZweOW+wEU0m0C18Vu1TqlkNSZpx9z5MblLnYbvk2kXaAUsW8prSQHNFSsI9VFYuGil1QKU= Received: by 10.54.71.11 with SMTP id t11mr1271702wra; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.37.42 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050901113468e512bc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:34:12 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question In-Reply-To: <20050901105004.7EBCB20@dm18.mta.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <72adc26605090110401114037f@mail.gmail.com> <20050901105004.7EBCB20@dm18.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j81IYICN084743 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made several of these skirts in the 70s when they were first (?) popular from a Vogue pattern. I don't know the formula for the gatherings, but I DO remember that each tier was wider than the one above it to give a nicer proportion - not by much, maybe 1-3" - but definitely wider. Maybe tier 2 was +1", tier 3 was +2", tier 4 was +3".... This would probably depend on how tall/round you are and how much your fabric would drape. LynnD On 9/1/05, Jennifer / Guenievre wrote: > Hmm, now I'm thinking about making myself one of these for "normal" wear. > Sewing question, though - wouldn't it be easier to gather from the bottom > up? As in start with Tier 3 (or 4, depending on the skirt), gather that onto > the next tier up, which then gets gathered onto the next tier up - seems > like that way you wouldn't be trying to sew onto something that was already > trying to fall into ruffles/gathers... > > Guenièvre > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On > > Behalf Of Marie Stewart > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:41 PM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question > > > > Quick and dirty summary... Circle skirt with length to the bottom of your > > tush, waist opening "a little" larger than you need. Gather gently into a > > waistband... or elastic. Measure the bottom circumference of the first > > level. Multiply this by 2, 2.5, or 3 depending on how much gather you > > want. > > Write down this number for future reference, call it layer 2. Cut your > > strip > > for layer 2 to the length you need, gather it onto your first level. Use > > the > > number for Layer 2 multiply this by 2, 2.5, or 3 depending on how much > > gather you want. Repeat.... > > > > > > > I'm wanting to make a skirt that looks like this one: > > > http://ursus.smugmug.com/photos/33402851-L.jpg > > > http://www.folkwear.com/120.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 14:43:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81IhtU4018148 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:43:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81Ih7Sx026835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81Ih0D7091217; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:43:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.173]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j81Igmam090990 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:42:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58192 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2005 18:42:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=t8MY1ITipd0e42Cz2YWJvq2B1zcxkOtg0DmxgSoQkBSlDhZeYty/79UCDJIsqGuzhRyh3bEGL4Beo6jdDcel0GFVA65ieyI0joySjKmATDGLBhvJ33gwX4Ih3Y+/FusEP83ns/sC0ZV05WrKfGxEWoVSnaCsvV2skNHj8Qu2GuI= ; Message-ID: <20050901184242.58190.qmail@web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.21.101.84] by web31010.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:42:41 PDT Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:42:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Great News!!!!! To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <00ca01c5af1e$427969a0$6800a8c0@Penny> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh Penny that is WONDERFUL NEWS!!! I am so happy for you and your family! I will keep praying the rest of the news is as good. ALL the best, Chris G. Penny Ladnier wrote: Thank you to ALL of your for your prayers, thoughts, and money sent to charities for the Hurricane victims. I spent three days on the phone with no sleep. I finally slept yesterday for 10 hours and still going strong. I have several great news to tell you but this one great part is so wonderful I am sending it in a message on its own. Please feel free to pass this one along to others to let them know there is hope. We thought my mom had lost her home because it was on the beach in Biloxi. But read what we found out today. Print off this message and then go to an image I put on the web at: www.costumegallery.com/momshouse.jpg If you are in IE browser, go to the lower right corner and some arrows will appear. Click on them. Look at the photo and read the rest of my message. We have been able to go on the NOAA's website www.noaa.gov . They have excellent aerial photos of all the houses and streets. The photos have been taken since the hurricane hit the Mississippi Gulf Coast. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 14:58:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81Iw3V9018289 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:58:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81IvLoq028391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:57:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IvI1E001824; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.176] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IvBD7001733 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBC13FB9C for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:57:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1381BC41B for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:57:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Skirt question Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:57:18 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <72adc26605090110401114037f@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually from the look on the dancer on the left, the length of the circle skirt is to the knee, then three tiers. But you need to think of your height as to were the best placement of the hem of the circle skirt. Then add your 3 tiers. Marie's instructions for the tiers are good. It is best to work top to bottom on your first skirt so that you can get the proper length and division of bands for your height. If you are petite then you want short to medium band widths. Tall, wide widths, etc. Exception is if you are coordinating with a group, then a the best width that compliments all of you. Once you have the measurements and working pattern, it won't matter whether you sew the pieces from the bottom up or top down. De -----Original Message----- Quick and dirty summary... Circle skirt with length to the bottom of your tush, _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 15:26:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81JQVVk023107 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:26:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81JPs9Z031630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:25:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81JPjfZ023301; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:25:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.176] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81JPbV7023146 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:25:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F773F9EA for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:25:34 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C0A73C5DE for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:25:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kimono styles (was: Sari ... Victorian) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:25:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From my understanding, the white outfit which is for the ceremony is symbol for death. It symbolizes the end of one life (with biological family) and the being of a new life (rebirth with husband) I believe that the white is Shinto specific but I could be wrong. I know that white for the ceremonial outfit goes back to at least the 1930s. De -----Original Message----- At 01:51 PM 8/31/2005, Kimiko wrote: >>The shinto wedding kimono is pure white (shiromoku = pure white). >When did Japanese wedding gowns become pure white? Or is it Shinto only? My >mom was Buddhist, not Shinto. When? I dont know. Presently in Tokyo, some women do as many as 4 outfits for a wedding, uchikake or tomosode formal kimono with mon (family crest), another in pure white for the shinto ceremony, a western gown and a suit or dress for leaving the festivities. That's 4, all for the same bride, same wedding. Zowie. Sounds like the mostly black one is a formal tomosode. (B/W only, is for attending funerals IIRC; mostly black w/ splash of color is for other formal, yet serious events.) I hesitate to respond further given that you've got the cultural & ethnic background. I do not. I merely lived there. My sympathies on your recent(?) loss. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 16:17:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81KHMUs023945 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:17:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81KGadr037062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:16:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81KGIaE062293; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81KFuof062052 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:16:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E253B5E2 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:15:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <43176177.7090003@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:15:51 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question References: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <002001c5af17$2da19540$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > What I am wondering is if there is a formula for construction, such as: > first strip is x long, second strip is double x, third strip is three or > four x. (if that makes sense?) Once I have that, then I can figure out my > yardage. I make these for people all the time. You can put as much fabric into them as you want, depending on how well the fabric gathers. Thinner fabric gets you more ruffles, but also takes more yardage because it gathers so well. Start with your waist measurement, double that for the first tier. Double that for the 2nd, double that for the third. That will get you approximately what will fit in each tier, as it's going to vary according to how the fabric gathers. I make each tier from 12-15" depending on the height of the wearer. If the skirt sits on your hips you need much less length to dance with and not trip in it. I use at minimum 3 yards (quilt cotton), up to 5 (gauze) or sometimes more depending on the fabric. I have tried using a circle for the topmost tier and found that it stretched badly on the bias when completed, giving me a very uneven hem. I second getting a ruffler. I cut and join strips and then feed them through by the mile in mere minutes. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 17:14:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j81LEKpW025075 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:14:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j81LDa1a043736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:13:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81LDLsF005238; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81LDDed005102 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:13:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EAwMu3XH2-0004Fz; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:13:08 -0400 Message-ID: <010b01c5af39$f6d70310$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:13:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1052/Thu Sep 1 14:20:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1052/Thu Sep 1 14:20:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Coastal news: Part 3 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j81LEKpW025075 Status: RO My brother #3 who owns a business in Biloxi about a mile or so from my mother's house... we saw on the NOAA website, that the building for his business is still standing. He has owned this business for about 25 years. Unfortunately he can't work until electricity is restored in Biloxi. That will be a good while. His owns an appliance repair business. When the lights come back on I am sure he will be swamped with business. He lost his home... a condo directly on the beach in Pass Christian. Thankfully he had evacuated to Pensacola to a friend's house. My mom heard from my sister with M.S. yesterday. She was the one who told us Mom's house was standing and we all thought she was crazy until today when we looked at the NOAA website. Tonight, my brother #4 in Hattiesburg is taking my mother to the fire station where he works, and have her call me. I am in charge of talking her to fly to Virginia and stay with me until the electricity comes back on at her home...probably three months. I am the only one in the family that she will listen to when Mom's go off the deep end emotionally. She wants to go back now to her house which is impossible. She has health problems and can't take the heat and will need more heart and blood pressure meds soon. So pray for strength for me when talking with her tonight. My #1 brother in Mobile does have electricity and water again, but they do not have gas in the city. He can't run his trucks for his business because of the gas shortage. They are all running so short of money because the banks are not open. Mobile will hopefully be opening the banks tomorrow. He is going to give cash to Brothers #3 and #4. Yesterday, all these brothers meet in Mobile. My mom, brother #4 and his wife saw on TV the new shows about the condition of the coast. Everyone had a big long cry. Because this was the third tropical system to come into the area, and the other two were not that bad, noone took that much cash out of the banks in advance. Brother #1 vacation house on Dauphin Island got flooded but it stood its ground. He had just finished restoring it from Hurricane Ivan from last year and it was hit again. I asked him the stupid question that the press asked, "Why do you keep living in an area where so many hurricanes hit?" I also told him that was the press' question not mine. I know the reason. Because the Coast is my home, I love the water, fishing, and swimming. My family is here, it is home. There is a blessing with this home... when you see the news footage of the island and see an oil rig that hit the island, my brother house is the one still standing next to the rig. This brother was a Navy Seal. Brother #2 made it in from Africa from the oil rigs, and my sister's husband made it in from the rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. My brother and sister are married to a brother and sister. The oil rigs guys are in Monroe, Louisiana and are coming to the Coast this weekend to pick up my M.S. sister and her children to go back to Monroe. My husband's family in Bayou La Batre, Alabama house were all flooded. But everyone is safe. Our family joke, Bayou La Batre is where in the movie Forrest Gump went to start his shrimp boat business. Our cousin Bubba did own a shrimp boat business in Bayou La Batre until Hurricane Frederick wiped the business out in the 1980s. This whole community is a fishing community. Susan, my asst. who is married to one of my husband's cousins, lives near Bayou La Batre. She has phone service and water, but no electricity. She went to Bayou La Batre and gave us a report. Our relatives in Slidell and Pearl River, Louisiana lost their homes. But they are safe in Northern Mississippi. I think I covered everyone in the family. BTW, the MS Coast newspaper said that several of the antebellum homes in Pass Christian did survive. (The ones in my online photo collection.) The new homes did not. Some history of the Coast does live on!!! People have asked me what can they do to help. Please keep praying for the people of this area of our country. Volunteer for one of the charity agencies or donate money. You can answer phones, pack kits, load trucks, etc. Go by and say thank you to some of the corporations that are sending massive amounts of aid. Some are Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Food Lion, etc. Make a point to talk to the manager of the store and let him know that you appreciate their corporation's charity. I went to Food Lion grocery this morning and personally thanked the manager and asked that he let the corporate offices know how much we appreciate their efforts. The manager told me they hardly ever have people outside the affected areas tell them thank you. Food Lion stores are not located in the Mississippi Gulf Coastal area. But they were one of the first corporations to rush supplies to the Coast. Thank the citizens of states like Alabama and Texas who are taking the children into their schools until Mississippi and Louisiana can rebuild their schools. That is a lot of tax money to do put out. Thank the family members of the police, search and rescue, military, electric and phone specialists, etc. from all over the U.S. who are going into the Coast. Their families need to hear thank you. I personally thank all of you for the hundreds of emails you have sent me. I have read all of them and found them very comforting. I have told all of our family members that you all have offered your prayers and support. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 21:00:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82107S3029272 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:00:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j820xThr075067 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:59:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j820xPnf045783; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:59:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j820x5Cx045635 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:59:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26625 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:20:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:20:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1052/Thu Sep 1 14:20:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1052/Thu Sep 1 14:20:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Literary fashion (humor) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found these amusing: http://www.geist.com/comix/comix.php?id=15 http://www.geist.com/comix/comix.php?id=3 --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 1 23:33:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j823XVSY031667 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j823WxTX088276 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j823Wvj4015646; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:32:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j823WrkC015592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8250DSd000330 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 01:00:18 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Literary fashion (humor) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:32:42 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509012332.42225.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1052/Thu Sep 1 14:20:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1052/Thu Sep 1 14:20:32 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 01 September 2005 8:20 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > I found these amusing: > > http://www.geist.com/comix/comix.php?id=15 > http://www.geist.com/comix/comix.php?id=3 I love it! Better quality of information than (some) serious costume histories. Thanks! -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 06:57:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82AvR1g004788 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 06:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82Atf7d032081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 04:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82AtKP1082764; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 04:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82AsrNa082291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 04:55:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-213-92-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.213.92]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j82Asmpc021644 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:54:50 +1000 Message-ID: <002601c5afac$a04a8080$5cd5f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <083120051836.20991.4315F8A80000A0EB000051FF22073007930809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> <8296995c050831123353382579@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:storm prayers Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:53:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1053/Fri Sep 2 01:01:53 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1053/Fri Sep 2 01:01:53 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:33 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:storm prayers > I agree, but I think we should wait a month or so until these > communities get back on their feet and have places to live, let alone > start a stash of fabric and such. > LynnD > > On 8/31/05, elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net > wrote: > > Penny, > > > > I love the idea of helping with rebuilding stashes and such. May I send some as well? For those who would like to give their stash to SCA members a yahoo group has been set up to help organise and coordinate donations of garb & gear once our friends and family are ready to resume their SCA life: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-BackToNormal/ Or if you'd rather give it to somebody who does a different time period or a school (as Penny suggested) You'll have to do a web search. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 12:31:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82GVPLb009341 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:31:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82GUfxR064687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:30:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82GURG4069841; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82CYVR6023360 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 06:34:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.99.65d220c8 (3948) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:34:21 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <99.65d220c8.3049a0cc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:34:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:storm prayers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1054/Fri Sep 2 08:26:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/2/2005 7:01:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ewalpole@tpg.com.au writes: I agree, but I think we should wait a month or so until these > communities get back on their feet and have places to live, let alone > start a stash of fabric and such. > Yes, the need right now, and for some time to come, is cash to pay for food and such, to the established organizations working in the region. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 12:40:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82GeRQV009453 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:40:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82GdwkK065997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:39:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82GdpB8076966; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81IOH3e076748 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:24:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id 6.1d4.435f9cfb (18707) for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:24:06 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1d4.435f9cfb.3048a146@aol.com> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:24:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Skirt question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1054/Fri Sep 2 08:26:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/1/2005 1:51:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, generys@blazemail.com writes: > gather that onto > the next tier up, which then gets gathered onto the next tier up - seems > like that way you wouldn't be trying to sew onto something that was already > trying to fall into ruffles/gathers... > Well, since the small bit of fabric under the presser foot is all you need to really worry about when sewing, I don't know that either way is easier. But starting at the bottom as you suggest does mean you're sewing shorter distances as bulk increases. This sounds good. If you're slow and careful, you can skip gathering threads and such but carefully putting in little tucks as the ruffle goes under the presser foot. Keep it neat! Have fun! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 12:42:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82Gg8aA009469 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:42:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82GaaAK065554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82GaYaq074545; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:36:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82FpwkN040822 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 09:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8803B5F9 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:51:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <43187524.8060607@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:52:04 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1054/Fri Sep 2 08:26:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1054/Fri Sep 2 08:26:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fabric sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Among other things, Joann's has its muslin on sale for 50% off over the Labor Day holiday weekend. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 13:24:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82HOj3V009965 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:24:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82HOFnQ072032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:24:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82HOBF0011690; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:24:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82H8eC8000187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:09:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j82H8d1r002073 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:08:39 -0400 Received: from 12.34.13.238 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <56081.12.34.13.238.1125680919.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <99.65d220c8.3049a0cc@aol.com> References: <99.65d220c8.3049a0cc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re:storm prayers From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is a site if you can offer housing to displaced people: http://www.hurricanehousing.org/ Also I'm on a museum list where they mentioned that people can volunteer with the Red Cross. It may be work such as collecting donations in one's own area. At some point, cultural institutions may need volunteers to assess damage to collections, etc. If anything is costume related, hopefully people will post it to the list. -Carol > Yes, the need right now, and for some time to come, is cash to pay for > food and such, to the established organizations working in the region. > > Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 13:47:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82HlQAD010266 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:47:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82HfeXB075756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82HfMAw023918; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail10.mdx.safepages.com (mail10.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.33]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82Heuhl023569 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:41:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 42FDC2051C; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:51:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.1.181.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.1.181]) by mail10.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8922320540 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:51:00 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <05a001c5afe5$a824c200$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <00f101c5af2f$18a027c0$6800a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Coastal News Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:42:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As of yesterday evening, I wasn't able to call north MS either (Oxford), so anyone trying to contact family further north might want to try the text message trick as well. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 13:48:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82HmRTt010281 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:48:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82Hm2hq076479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:48:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82HlONp028236; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82HkvFH027887 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:47:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so406567rne for ; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=GQWOfRKMr7sCRQbW2vHZ+kfDTvx7gRjvJDvF7j3CTyfjKBiczN/yWLWZgAkFcP3f85Jpo3L0fK7F5MqPUAUpzQYSDnEshPoRQ1oVHgy+OvPfp7wyJQdW9TIDVfJWNyPL4pbGdZeWCva1d10ztZCB7NmZxMVlWhmMi8/urv9LCAI= Received: by 10.38.209.3 with SMTP id h3mr200208rng; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.101.56 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc266050902104674891311@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:46:56 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] More Coastal News In-Reply-To: <05a001c5afe5$a824c200$0400a8c0@compaqub> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <00f101c5af2f$18a027c0$6800a8c0@Penny> <05a001c5afe5$a824c200$0400a8c0@compaqub> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j82HkvFH027887 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny - Thank you for this information. I've forwarded it to some other lists. Thanks again. And congrats on finding your family. ;> Bridgette _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 14:40:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82IeTNY010808 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:40:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82IdhYL081914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82IdeVg066505; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:39:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82IdVeT066409 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:39:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f554c.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.76]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id DDE2526281D for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:39:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:39:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] coastal news X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am shocked down into my privacy and dont know how i can say this. I thoaght America was such a rich comunity, you know big houses, dogs at least two cars and overweight people. Now i see in the television that poor people lives in USA two. Well Well what can a poor soul in Denmark do except say to you all: Never, never again ellect such a poor president as Bushes.................. Hail Freedom of America and all its poor inhabitants. And may God be with you alllll.......................... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 14:46:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82Ik4aI010900 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:46:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82IgMJq082192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82GpSZV086620; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j81JtMxV046326 for ; Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EAv9c2sT9-0001zc; Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:55:20 -0400 Message-ID: <00f101c5af2f$18a027c0$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:55:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=16% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1051/Thu Sep 1 08:57:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More Coastal News X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j82Ik4aI010900 Status: RO I actually did a radio interview for the Red Cross about this topic this morning. As of yesterday at 6:00 pm, we had heard from all of our family members but my husband's brother and sister and their collective six children. They decided to stayed in the Northern part of Gulfport during the hurricane. We were watching the Weather Channel and giving them and my brother in Hattiesburg updates as to what part of the storm was coming at them every 30 minutes. When their electricity went out in the early morning and they didn't know that the eye of the hurricane was coming at them. They thought it was going to New Orleans. The last we had heard from either of them was at 11:00 Monday just before the worse part of the hurricane hit. Water was coming into my brother-in-law's garage at the times and they had lost nine trees at the time. My brother-in-law who is in management at MCI, told us last night that you can text message people with cell phones in Mississippi, and ask them to call you. You don't have to have MCI service to do this. Anyone with text message reception can do this. We texted a message and my brother-in-law called us in minutes. The Gulf Coast Mississippians can receive text messages but not phone calls. BUT they can call out!!! Most of the people in South Mississippi do not know they can phone out until you tell them. They can't call the area code for South Mississippi, 228, but can call anywhere else in the country. My brother-in-law and his family are safe in their home. They have food and a neighbor with a well is giving them water. My sister-in-law who lives in downtown Gulfport went back to their home Wednesday. We text messaged her and she called us in 10 minutes. Amazingly enough, her house was my husband's families home since 1920, is standing strong and took no damage. This home was built by my husband's father and his grandfather. The house is located about 8 blocks from the beach in Gulfport, where all the reporters are reporting from. We have now heard from ALL of our family members. Some family members have lost their homes and/or jobs. But they are not standing on standing on roof-tops waiting to be rescued. What most people need on the Coast is water, gas, and ice. They also need cash because the banks or either in rubble or don't have electricity. Debit and check cards do not work because the electricity is out. My diabetic sister-in-law in Gulfport paid $10 for a bag of ice to cool her insulin. She said she couldn't stand in the lines @ 98 degree weather for hours to get a bag of ice at the free distribution centers. They really need organization at these centers. But they just don't have enough people to help. Please let people know about the text messaging their family members in Mississippi. It will relieve their minds when their family calls back. It also give the people in Mississippi that we have not forgotten about them and that they are not cut off from the world. Just before we found out about the text messaging, we were planning to drive to Mississippi to get our families to bring back to Virginia. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 15:25:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82JPNCB011355 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82JOoLO090951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:24:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82JOZB7001124; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82JNaQG000495 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:24:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j82JNZMP020284 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:23:35 -0400 Message-ID: <4318A6BB.1010806@msn.com> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:23:39 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] coastal news References: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, I think there are a lot of us who are as deeply shocked as you. I also think that Americans are a spoiled lot, myself included, and that many of us cannot fathom (again, myself included) the reality of this kind of disaster. We are all so used to just seeing it on TV and it is always "over there." While I did not vote for President Bush, I don't think this has a whole lot to do with him. Having run emergency drills on a MUCH smaller scale (on a navy ships and at nuclear power plants) and seen how much can go awry in even the smallest setting with much planning, it does not surprise me ,in the least, that America is still very unprepared for much of any kind of disaster. This will be yet another hard lesson for us to absorb and respond to. I am not suffering here in Arizona, so it is very easy for me to sit back and say "That which does not kill us makes us stronger," so I too, send out hope and prayers to those who are suffering so much. Sg Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I am shocked down into my privacy and dont know how i can say this. > ............................. > And may God be with you alllll.......................... > > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 16:28:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82KSvYu012017 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:28:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82KRwfD097809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:27:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82KRoNH048586; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:27:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:HFmEsHlJ91lXZx8XVR2+rqRACkZi+QZH@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82KRjbk048479 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:27:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.3] (206-124-5-3.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.3]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j82KOBA28189; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:24:11 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <4d0c05f6e90d3326d7d9d9f969cdcfbf@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:27:41 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [h-cost] children's sizes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm trying to make some simple Halloween costumes to sell on ebay to supplement my already too small income. I know they need to be simple because people don't generally pay much on ebay, so I'm using up old fabric scraps. I have run into a problem already with sizing. i was using a Burda pattern and its sizes seem to be quite different than those of the big 3 American pattern companies. It's been a long time since I had a young child so I was wondering if any of you with small girls or boys would mind giving me their chest, waist and hip measurements along with their height. A measurement from waist to floor would help too. And let me know their age and gender. I think I am going to make stuff for about ages 1-11. If I get enough responses, I can figure out averages. Thanking you all in advance, Syrog (Sylvia Rognstad) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 17:09:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82L90xU012518 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:09:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82L7gpJ001976 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:07:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82L7W2M077324; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:07:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.mc.surewest.net (smtp1.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.50]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j82L7NIW077200 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:07:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (s3-18591); Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:06:30 -0700 Received: from unknown (64.30.124.106) by smtp1.mc.surewest.net (s3-smtpd/0.90-beta3) with SMTP; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:06:28 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050902140419.03136af0@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:07:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] children's sizes In-Reply-To: <4d0c05f6e90d3326d7d9d9f969cdcfbf@ntw.net> References: <4d0c05f6e90d3326d7d9d9f969cdcfbf@ntw.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-TST: smtp1 SNWK3 0.31-80 ip=64.30.124.106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:27 PM 9/2/2005, you wrote: >I'm trying to make some simple Halloween costumes to sell on ebay to >supplement my already too small income. I know they need to be >simple because people don't generally pay much on ebay, so I'm using >up old fabric scraps. I have run into a problem already with >sizing. i was using a Burda pattern and its sizes seem to be quite >different than those of the big 3 American pattern companies. It's >been a long time since I had a young child so I was wondering if any >of you with small girls or boys would mind giving me their chest, >waist and hip measurements along with their height. A measurement >from waist to floor would help too. And let me know their age and >gender. I think I am going to make stuff for about ages 1-11. If I >get enough responses, I can figure out averages. > >Thanking you all in advance, >Syrog (Sylvia Rognstad) Sylvia, Have you considered going to the web sites of the major pattern companies and checking their measurements? That would give you a better way to let your buyers know about sizes since they are already accustomed to those. Or you could check on the sites for some clothing companies, like L. L. Bean; they usually have charts showing measurements for sizing. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 18:01:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82M1BDQ013184 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:01:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82M0awC007244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:00:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82M0PPK013490; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:00:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:GLH1dEndc6nuYljS18c+FC2Ta0bUpm7u@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82M0FRc013378 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.222] (206-124-5-222.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.222]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j82LufA02635 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:56:41 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050902140419.03136af0@pop.surewest.net> References: <4d0c05f6e90d3326d7d9d9f969cdcfbf@ntw.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20050902140419.03136af0@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <955acfc64a76391a68f0698744c001f9@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] children's sizes Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:00:11 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The problem is that I compared the sizes for a Burda pattern I have with one from one of the big 3 and they were totally different. I want to use the Burda pattern but am confused by the discrepancies. Sylrog On Sep 2, 2005, at 3:07 PM, Joan Jurancich wrote: > At 01:27 PM 9/2/2005, you wrote: >> I'm trying to make some simple Halloween costumes to sell on ebay to >> supplement my already too small income. I know they need to be >> simple because people don't generally pay much on ebay, so I'm using >> up old fabric scraps. I have run into a problem already with sizing. >> i was using a Burda pattern and its sizes seem to be quite different >> than those of the big 3 American pattern companies. It's been a long >> time since I had a young child so I was wondering if any of you with >> small girls or boys would mind giving me their chest, waist and hip >> measurements along with their height. A measurement from waist to >> floor would help too. And let me know their age and gender. I think >> I am going to make stuff for about ages 1-11. If I get enough >> responses, I can figure out averages. >> >> Thanking you all in advance, >> Syrog (Sylvia Rognstad) > Sylvia, > Have you considered going to the web sites of the major pattern > companies and checking their measurements? That would give you a > better way to let your buyers know about sizes since they are already > accustomed to those. Or you could check on the sites for some > clothing companies, like L. L. Bean; they usually have charts showing > measurements for sizing. > > > Joan Jurancich > joanmj@surewest.net > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 19:05:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j82N50wX013812 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:05:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j82N4NEX013268 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:04:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82N4J0I052343; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j82N4EJX052257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j82N43qT001458 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:04:04 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:12:57 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OT - To the People of Gleann Abhann and the SCA X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, This might give you an even better idea of what the US is all about, even when we are stripped down to the essentials. The Coronation may seem trivial, but the determination to make it happen isn't. Sort of like the Danish Crown not giving up when the Nazi's poured over your borders. Not a natural disaster, but close enough for government work. Regina -----Original Message----- From: SCA-Disaster@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Disaster@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Susan B. Farmer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:02 PM To: SCA-Disaster@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SCA-Disaster] [VR] Fwd: [Gleann Abhann] To the People of Gleann Abhann and theSCA Greetings from Radu and Broinnfinn, Lord and Lady Heir of Gleann Abhann, First and foremost, we wish to offer our deepest thanks to the overwhelming offers of aid to ourselves personally, to all of our friends and family affected by this disaster, and to our Principality. We have been touched to tears by the concerns of mere acquaintances and total strangers. We also offer profound thanks to Their Majesties of Meridies and the Meridian Seneschal for coordinating relief efforts to those members of the SCA in the affected areas. As has been posted on our behalf, our ability to communicate has been somewhat limited. We can call out by cell, but nobody can call in to us. We have internet access only by invading the houses of others. We are grateful to the Principality Officers and the members of our personal household who have taken our dropped reins and have been coordinating our concerns. If you do not receive quick responses to our emails, please give us time. Somebody WILL get back with you. We apologize that our situation has prevented us from being the kind of Kingdom Leaders we wish to be. We will briefly outline our situation. One block from our home, which we built less than four years ago, a neighbor was rescued by boat from his second story. Our house took on over eight feet of water and is a total loss. Our truck, which was left behind in the evacuation, cannot be seen at all on reconnaissance photos of the area. The house and all of our contents is a complete loss, and we, and our 2-month old son are homeless. Our places of employment are unable to function for many months. We cannot get home to salvage what little we have left because we have been unable to get gasoline in Jackson, MS. We tell you this, not to be self-centered, but to put a face on this enormous tragedy. There are thousands of people just like us - they have not only lost their homes, but their entire city and livelihood. We have discovered, through this tragedy, our enormous good fortune. Our lifelong involvement in the Society has given us a safety net of people that we never truly appreciated until this moment. There are many of those thousands who are far worse off than us. Please remember these souls as well - we meet them at everyplace we go in Jackson. You may not know them, and they may know nothing of us, but we are united in this tragedy. Her Ladyship found herself comforting a sobbing girl in Target as she bought soap because she had lost her home and job, and she had nowhere to turn. In the light of this devastation, SCA matters seem trivial. But this is far from the case. When all else has been lost, we cling to those things we still have - the slivers of normalcy and a life beyond the loss. Things like Gleann Abhann's First Coronation ARE important. Because, when all the banners, crowns and thrones are stripped away, when we stop addressing each other with funny titles, and go past that we dress in funny clothes, what is left is a community of the most generous and caring people that has ever existed. This is a community that deserves to be celebrated and recognized and cherished for the concern and brotherhood that we have shared. We are in communication (in fact, currently in the house of) the Gleann Abhann Seneschal Master Stephan of Durham. We are determined that Gleann Abhann Coronation WILL occur as soon as we can make alternative arrangements. As Her Ladyship says - we will do it barefoot in our shifts in a parking lot if necessary. We thank those who have assured us it will be more dignified than that! Please keep tuned in for the final announcement of the Coronation plans. And we hope that the rest of the Known World will still come and join us in both celebration and thanksgiving. Radu and Broinnfinn Lord and Lady Heir of Gleann Abhann Please use this UNOFFICIAL discussion list chivalrously. --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "gleannabhann" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: gleannabhann-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- ~*~*~*~*~ Consciousness: that annoying time between naps. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] The VR list is not a part of the SCA or any branch of the SCA. VR Community email addresses: Post message: vr@onelist.com Subscribe: vr-subscribe@egroups.com Unsubscribe: vr-unsubscribe@egroups.com List owner: vr-owner@egroups.com The Vulpinereach website is at: vulpinereach.vei.net Yahoo! Groups Links ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ SPONSORED LINKS Living history Expressions of sympathy Used car history Vehicle history Common sense ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "SCA-Disaster" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: SCA-Disaster-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 20:21:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j830LIHi014459 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:21:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j830GFJB020527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:16:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j830G4H3090169; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:16:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j830Ftm1089998 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:15:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EBLhG3yok-00079u; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:15:50 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:15:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Response to conditions in Coastal Areas X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is probably the only time I have ever written ANY message like this online. But that message hits me close to home and I have to respond. Please forgive me for taking my white gloves off, and speaking my mind. But this must be said. A message for Susan an h-costumer lurker who lives the Gulf Coast of Alabama: Quote: "In sitting right in the middle of the disater area of the Gulf Coast I appreciate Bjarne's thoughtful and compassionate political advice. Too bad, you don't have any compassion for the victims. It has really helped me get water, ice, and electricity in for my home. BTW, George Bush didn't make the hurricane. Nature did." Unquote. She made me promise to write that. She is VERY, VERY hurt by your comment. >From Me: That message is very upsetting to me, and I and the others involved in this disaster would appreciate you NOT trying to make this situation into a political platform. H-costume is not a political platform list. First, very few people on this list have lived in this area of the U.S. Most people watching on TV do not truly understand the situation in this area. The news networks want you to think is 100% fact for ratings. They can not even say the names of the locations half the time correct. Footage they are showing is named incorrect, etc. They are jump-cutting parts of the aerial footage out of areas undamaged, etc. As my brother-in-law, who works for Neilson Ratings in marketing, pointed out last night, these news networks started Saturday pulling marketing information and getting top dollar for advertising because they thought this would be that their big story. Do you seeing any of these news networks giving money to the Red Cross or other charities to help these people. No! The only real reports of the areas came from Robin Roberts who entire family lives on the Gulf Coast. Yesterday when they were showing footage of Pass Christian did you see ANY images of those nice antebellum homes that survived? No! They jump-cut the aerial footage of the entire area of where my mother's home was. I know the areas of Southern Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama as well as I know my children. I lived there 21 years and ALL of our families still live there but 4 members. My family and Susan have informed me of the majority of the places that survived and how much damage there is. According to the news 90% of everything is destroyed. More has survived. There are areas of all three states that are very low land. Generally this is the area where the lower income people live because it is the property is cheap. New Orleans has the same problems that almost every city in the most of the world has. The lower income people are the majority of our present day inner cities. In Richmond, Virginia the majority of the people in the city earn lower incomes. Just like Chicago, LA, DC, Detroit, etc. We all have a prosperous areas of the city and less prosperous areas of the city. NYC has had this problem since immigrants came to the country 200 years ago. We had this discussion previously on this list about that some people think the people in the U.S. as all rich people in big 10,000+ sq. foot homes. If you choose to believe what you see on TV or in magazines it is your choice. But you probably also believe from every home or office window in Paris that you can see the Eiffel Tower or in London you can see Big Ben from every window. Hollywood wants you to think so. The majority of Americans do not believe that. Historically, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, and Arkansas are the lowest income states in the U.S. They are agricultural, and seafood, and oil producing states. That is the main reason we have an oil shortage this week. The majority of oil refineries in the Coastal areas are down. New Orleans, Gulfport, and Biloxi depend heavily on the tourism industry. Biloxi also depends heavily on business from the local Air Force base. Hattiesburg, 60 miles inland, where my brother lives, is a college town and depends on the railroad and chemical industries. I heard one reporter say when reporting from where the Grand Casino is in the middle of the highway in Gulfport, that this was a poor area of town. This is actually a middle class area. Those house are a nice size inside. Our families were livid about that reporter's comment. The only low income area of the Mississippi Gulf Coast is the Point in Biloxi... where the Biloxi bridge collapsed, and the area just North of downtown Gulfport before I-10. The majority of people on the Gulf Coastal areas live in houses with 1,500 -2,000 square feet. They work on oil rigs, tourism (like the Casinos), military bases, shipyards, or the seafood industry. The Gulf Coast States supplies the majority of the oil drilling & refining (as you at the gas pumps found out this week), seafood, shipbuilding & restoration, and crystal white beaches for those who take vacations. The cost of living in this area of the country is by far less than the majority of the U.S. Compare a nice 2,000 sq. foot home, for $60 to $75,000 for a middle income person on the Coast to those in California, Chicago, or Washington DC metros. Probably about three to four times higher or more. The majority of these Coastal homes were built in the 1920s when the tourism industry took off. 60 miles inland from these coastal areas, the cost of living is even cheaper. This is where the agricultural counties are. These counties/parishes supply the WORLD with cotton, beef, pork, rice, lumber, etc. Gulfport, Mobile, and New Orleans are the ports for import and export for goods worldwide. Mobile's port will be the only one functioning until the others recover. Yes, you can expect the prices of these items to rise. All railroad running east and west on the Gulf Coast have to be rebuild. Tracks needs repairing and the majority of major railroad bridges are out. Mississippi has been supplying the majority of the world with cotton for over 100 years. It is their number one cash crop. As for oil production, I don't know anyone from the Coastal area who does not have a family member who not in the oil industry, either refining or on oil rigs. These people who work on the rigs are gone from their families every other month and sitting on a rig in an Ocean around the world. My brother has been on rigs for the past 30 years all over the world. He has spent the past 10 years off the Coast of Africa next to war-torn countries and my brother-in-law works on rigs off of the coast of South America just to bring the World oil and support his families. Next time you use these any of these products think about these people from this Gulf Coast of the U.S. who have spent half their life devoted to bring the world oil and goods. If you think they live so much in poverty, just write out a second check to: Gulf Coast Poverty Fund everytime you purchase gasoline, or something made of cotton, or enjoy shrimp, fish, or oysters dinners. I will be very happy to personally manage the fund to give it to them. The people who take the oil out of the water, on those hot on shrimp boats, or in the hot fields of the cotton fields are proud people, but I will make sure they get your money. As for the some people in New Orleans misbehavior and the slow speed of response with supplies to the Coast: Not all 20,000+ people in New Orleans were out looting. Gulfport had very like looting. Honey the last thing in this world I would do is mess with a Mississippi policeman. The press found the looters. This was a despite situation, people were hungry and thirsty. I wouldn't begrudge anyone taking food or water for their families, but ATVs, big screen TVs, yes, I do have a problem with that. New Orleans has been known for years as for having a high crime rate, and have been rebuilding their police dept. after years of corruption. Everyone who lives on the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Coast knows we are prone to hurricanes. We had eight tropical systems in Richmond, Virginia last year. That is the most it has ever had. We generally receive a tropical storm ever other year. I live 100 miles from the Atlantic coast. We ALL know that we might have to go a week or so without electricity water, food. When it is hurricane season, we all know we need to be prepared with water saved up, non-perishable food, and hurricane lamps & candles for at least a week of survival. Just like Richmonders know that when it turns winter in I should have these same things in the winter in case we get snowed in or have ice storms. On our Coastal regions we all know when to evacuate. The difference with this storm is that it grew very powerful in one day and that it turned at the last minute. Some other factors: The two weeks I was on the Coast, a tropical storm hit, (no evacuation ordered), and a minor hurricane was coming into the area (we were in 8 hrs of evacuation traffic for this the day before the storm). People had evacuated and the storm turned. So when Katrina moved into the Gulf, people were hesitant. Katrina is one of four of the most devitasting hurricanes that has hit the U.S. since records have been keep. It is going to take some time to co-ordinate the rescue and recovery. Just remember that it has been 35 years since the last major hurricane hit this area. Most of the people who coordinated that effort are now senior citizens or have passed on. I can speak for this from personal experience... my father was one of the Camille's Civil Defense coordinators. I have been through so many hurricanes and tropical storms in my life I can't even remember all of their names. There have been over 30 something hurricanes when I last counted. Only one time in all of these storms any of my family members lost their home and that was from Hurricane Camille. And as you have seen we have a very large family. Today's count, three of our family members have lost their home from this hurricane. I think the problem is that people outside of North America view the U.S. according as to what you see on TV or in films. Just remember, that is Hollywood's version is not the real thing. We do not have a great mass transit system like England. Our country is very large. We have two cars because my husband drives 45 minutes one way to go to work and needs a vehicle. My car is used to transport my living-at-home children to go their jobs in the opposite direction. The Richmond metro does not have mass transit outside of the actual city limits. The majority of mid-size U.S. cities with suburbs are this way. Small towns generally do not have mass transit at all, except if you want to count a Greyhound bus station. Trains for the most part are used for the transport of goods, like coal, lumbers, oil, etc. As for the flooding problems in N.O. When you build a city on a marsh, it will flood. "N.O. floods almost every time it rains... that's why they bury people above the ground." New Orleanians say that all the time. What the Press is not showing you are the parts of the city that did not flood... the original part of the city! Flooding is a fact of life in N.O., just like living in the flood zone of Richmond, the BIG ONE (flood) will come on day. The Big One happened in N.O. this week. The Big One happened in Richmond last year from a tropical storm in 2 hours and 11 inches of rain. It wiped out a whole business district when it happened. Sometimes unforeseen things happen, like in Richmond's flood last year a dam almost broke and places downstream were severely flooded. The people who live in the fault line of California know the Big One will happen one day. So should we not use the products and services from these areas to encourage them to move. We seem to like all those fruits and vegetables we receive from Florida and California. Do we say tough luck and not help these people. No! We are humans and we try to help those in need as much as possible. Just like we try to help people when earthquakes happen, volcanoes erupt, massive wildfires, droughts, etc. BTW, in case you didn't read my original message in July about the website with the antebellums homes, I made it very clear to point out, these homes were an exception in the South and are a declared historic district. That's why I have them on my website... they are historic. 99% people in the South do not live have big columned Plantation houses and strolling yards. A good many of the modern homes do have porches. Even my home built in 1978 is an exception with a 3/4 wrap-around porch. I looked for months to find a house to purchase with a wrap-around porch. I wanted one because it reminded me of the houses that face the beach in Pass Christian. But my columns, if you would call them that, are 6" X 6" boards. My porch is not a status system like the plantation style home but as functional as another room in our house. Please be careful when you stereo-type people and cultures. Don't judge people by what you see on TV and the movies. The reason I have always loved to travel and study costumes, is because I love to find out how others live. Education teaches us all to respect one another. That is why I am in the business I am in. But if you jump in and insult people or cultures, you end up causing conflict and hurt feeling. We all live differently because of our history, cultures, climate, income levels, etc. That is what makes us all so unique as a world. BTW, there is nothing wrong about not being a lot of having money. The majority of people live paycheck to paycheck. I have know a lot of people who have little money who are happier than those who have a lot. "Poor" is a state of mind not how much money you make or where you live. You can have all the money in the world and not be happy. I was always taught to not condemn a person, before you way a mile in their shoes. Bjarne please come out of the bubble and please walk a mile in someone's others shoes before condemning their lifestyles. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 20:48:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j830mI0w014716 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:48:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j830lST6022963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:47:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j830lNod004578; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:47:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web54715.mail.yahoo.com (web54715.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j830lL3p004514 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:47:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from carolscostuming5@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 5325 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2005 00:47:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=N9RwHOISCMdEX+keqKbUq8oL9MRsRJVKvXzFklaZQFwxl8wgDDqEDReODMdHVZSRc/w6P2MYSXpMtJlHlSSRGrt53RKYc/NWU2trAYUbVT2cUrBLqDif5s8WdiZDQpIN8iH1d7g9zBvEKZBoIhNNd50T5Qn/oBH/E+oeWFVqePo= ; Message-ID: <20050903004715.5323.qmail@web54715.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.107.144.132] by web54715.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:47:15 PDT Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:47:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200508291848.j7TIjmxm089585@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] saris for Victorian dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to one of my favorite books, in the year 1700 Indian silk and chintz (called chints) were banned from the English market because they were hurting domestic manufacturers. I don't think that means Indian fabrics were unheard of in the following century, or that they died out after the Regency period.. Carol Mitchell Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 20:51:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j830plEh014745 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:51:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j830pSTO023229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:51:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j830pRwv006360; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:51:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j830pPiW006339 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:51:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so453469rne for ; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:51:25 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ptJPoZ8YrwelE+XU/vSjEjca0AwLL/5f8/j059N25TLnZiUIsOvS/gAxe7vTIjM0oRRixKAMLUX+D+YXhnTfKUiCnbu7uryPWzWWk3KLTDoK3haCHot7gUEXrXaJQtve1dEsoigv0IGP6Um7geyHtzCBsN2dEGo6HSngLY+luG8= Received: by 10.38.101.59 with SMTP id y59mr29939rnb; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.101.56 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc26605090217516fbab27@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:51:25 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j830pPiW006339 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] avoiding pain and distress, hang in there all X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks... I'm sorry to see that Bjarne is being insensitive again. I did not see what he wrote, and I have no desire to - I made a policy some time ago to send all his posts to the trash unread. I hope he hasn't hurt anyone with his words. The last thing we need is more pain and distress. Hang in there all. Much love Mari / Bridgette On 9/2/05, Wanda Pease wrote: > Bjarne, This might give you an even better idea of what the US is all > about, even when we are stripped down to the essentials. The Coronation may > seem trivial, but the determination to make it happen isn't. Sort of like > the Danish Crown not giving up when the Nazi's poured over your borders. > Not a natural disaster, but close enough for government work. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 21:36:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j831aFhe015179 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j831ZWuP026782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:35:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831ZUaJ025985; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:35:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831ZPER025948 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:35:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.246] (pool180-246.patriot.net [209.249.180.246]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j831ZHrA006174 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:35:24 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> References: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:34:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Response to conditions in Coastal Areas Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Penny and Susan, While Bjarne's comments were awkward, I read it as his expressing surprise, learning about the diversity of people in America. The comments about Bush were not necessary, although there has been criticism with the slowness of the response. I think it always will sting when someone from a different country criticizes something about another. That there were people who did not have means to evacuate is tragic. Others decided to ride out the storm. I lived in Metarie, Louisiana (just west of New Orleans) when Camille came through. We boarded up the house and left, and fortunately our neighborhood was fine and we were back in a day. I find Penny's historic information interesting, the descriptions of the old houses are interesting and I hope to be able to enjoy the surviving historic buildings. I would like to ask listmembers to keep some things on private e-mail, however, and not argue (or discuss) non-historic, non-costume things! Costume content: It was in New Orleans that I first saw a lady in a lovely hoop-skirted gown (I think she was a tourguide). Also it was in Jackson Square that I first saw a hippie in person. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 21:54:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j831sxa6015380 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:54:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j831sZrF027910 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:54:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831sWv9034077; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:54:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831sRAs034034 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:54:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j831saxH001015 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:54:36 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j831sJgX270290 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:54:25 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050902181021.02666a40@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:54:13 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows In-Reply-To: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> References: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] costuming and natural disasters X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The people who live in the fault line of California know the Big One will >happen one day. Next year is the 100th anniversary of the last Big One that happened in Northern California, the San Francisco Earthquake. About half of the city burned, including the entire downtown and many homes, including everything from squalid tenements to fine mansions. (Our 1989 earthquake was minor by comparison.) The death toll soared, survivors lived in Army tents in public parks, food and water and medical supplies were scarce, charity poured in from all over the country, and the rebuilding took many years. The characteristic historical architectural style of San Francisco dates from the period right after the quake, when whole neighborhoods were rebuilt within a few years. By 1915 San Francisco hosted the Pan Pacific Exposition, celebrating, among other things, the phoenix-like rebirth of San Francisco from the ashes. I do living history at the San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park. In 2006 there will be many civic events in San Francisco commemorating this milestone in the city's history, and our living history program is making its plans already. Many park Rangers and living history docents have begun researching what parts the various ships in our collection played in the reconstruction of the city, as well as where each of them was at 5:12am on April 18, 1906. And I get to make a new outfit, since our program used to only do 1901 and now we'll be doing up to 1906. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 21:58:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j831waHt015432 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:58:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j831wJIx028120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:58:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831wI8N035515; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.tpg.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831wCoW035470 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-244-241-246-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.244.241.246]) by mail.tpg.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j831wArW015210 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:58:11 +1000 Message-ID: <007301c5b02a$d2ae9920$31d5f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] coastal news Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:57:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 4:39 AM Subject: [h-cost] coastal news > I am shocked down into my privacy and dont know how i can say this. > I thoaght America was such a rich comunity, you know big houses, dogs at > least two cars and overweight people. > Now i see in the television that poor people lives in USA two. > Well Well what can a poor soul in Denmark do except say to you all: > Never, never again ellect such a poor president as Bushes.................. > Hail Freedom of America and all its poor inhabitants. > And may God be with you alllll.......................... > Bjarne, Please don't make this about politics right now, it's too late to complain about what should have been done, right now it's important to concentrate on helping those who have been caught by this disaster and leave the blame game of who should have done what until later. WARNING, the following contains comments which could be interpreted as criticism of the USA, I hope people will not be offended by it I am trying to keep my personal opinions out and give facts to help people understand a bit more. If it is inaccurate please correct me. If you are offended by these comments let me know why. I agree that this has been mis-handled, having spoken with an ex New Orleans resident (she moved to Australia about 5 years ago and still has family there {thankfully all accounted for}) and watched the news it's clear that many locals knew a storm of this magnitude would break the levees and given the high poverty rate in the city it should have been clear that simply telling people to evacuate was not enough, they needed to provide transport to get people out. The 'rich' people (or those who could afford a car) have mostly got out and it's the poor who are stranded in these evacuation centres (like the superdome). >From my studies of different countries' social welfare systems (admittedly it was only a couple of weeks as part of a larger course) it's not really accurate to compare wealth between the USA and Denmark (or most other European countries) in Denmark there is a strong social security system and very little gap between rich and poor, the USA has very little social security or welfare (I can't recall which term is used over there) And the minimum wage is very low (many people working full time on the minimum wage find it very difficult to get by without assistance from charity). Therefore there is a big gulf between the rich and the poor, the rich are very rich and the poor are very poor. And finally, don't judge wealth by house size the land prices in countries like Australia and America are far lower than they are in Europe (as the population is far less concentrated), therefore somebody on the same wage is going to be able to afford a much larger house in America than they could in Europe. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 22:00:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j831xxon015459 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:59:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j831xZdm028208 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831xYPT036103; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831xUUc036069 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:59:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-52.sonic.net [209.148.113.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j831xSQm012642 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:59:29 -0700 Message-ID: <43190385.20606@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 18:59:33 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Response to conditions in Coastal Areas References: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Naturally I feel compassion for the hurricane victims. In San Francisco, we've been waiting for the next Big One (earthquake) for years. This is the Gulf Coast's Big One. Having said that, the whole discussion is off topic here. This is, after all, a costuming list. I vote that everyone who feels for the victims go contribute what cash they can afford to the Red Cross, or some other organization doing useful relief work. But here, let's get back to costume. I should add, that should the Big One (earthquake) occur here, I would not feel at all bad about h-costume not discussing it. Assuming I was even able to log on, I'd still have more urgent things to worry about. And now, I'm off to make a contribution. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Penny Ladnier wrote: > This is probably the only time I have ever written ANY message like > this online. But that message hits me close to home and I have to > respond. Please forgive me for taking my white gloves off, and > speaking my mind. But this must be said. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 22:14:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j832Egw9015677 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:14:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j832EAXq029571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:14:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j832E6uX041854; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:14:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j832E2RL041817 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:14:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j832ECxH030289 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:14:12 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j832DxAX449396 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:14:01 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:13:47 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Response to conditions in Coastal Areas In-Reply-To: References: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Costume content: It was in New Orleans that I first saw a lady in a > lovely hoop-skirted gown (I think she was a tourguide). Also it was in > Jackson Square that I first saw a hippie in person. :-) I have to laugh. A real Hippie, in person - like wow, man. But then, I grew up in California. I saw dozens of Hippies in person before I ever saw one in a hoop skirt. I went to school with Hippies, many of my best friends were Hippies, I even was a Hippie. The most important skill being a Hippie gave me was an appreciation for the fiber crafts, especially historical and ethnic. These days my historical costumes are known for their handwork and their historical embroidery and needle-embellishment. My non-historical 'costumes' are the style currently called "fiber art" or "wearable art", again using many fiber craft techniques I discovered as a Hippie. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 22:25:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j832PoR0015782 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:25:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j832PUmX030458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:25:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j832PSVE046533; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:25:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j832PO21046495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:25:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-52.sonic.net [209.148.113.52]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j832PMA4017812 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:25:23 -0700 Message-ID: <43190997.4070701@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:25:27 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Was: Response to conditions Now: Fiber Art References: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The whole modern wearable art movement is an outgrowth of DIY hippie crafts. I'm hoping to see the DIY aspects, the loving-hands-at-home experiments, revived as a foundation for a new generation of fiber artists. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > My non-historical 'costumes' are the style currently called "fiber > art" or "wearable art", again using many fiber craft techniques I > discovered as a Hippie. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 22:57:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j832vjXE016106 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:57:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j832vEP5033308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j832vCxL060014; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:57:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j832v7rj059978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:57:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.246] (pool180-62.patriot.net [209.249.180.62]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j832uwD1021482 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:57:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> References: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:55:27 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Hippie sightings... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I have to laugh. A real Hippie, in person - like wow, man. Oh, yes! It was around 1967. And, of course, I was warned to stay away from them. :-) >I saw dozens of Hippies in person before I ever saw one in a hoop skirt. Maybe because they were out of style by 1906? :-) It's interesting how an era is frozen into/associated with the identity of certain places. There's a good question, other than hoops in the south, what other places are associated with historic dress? Hmmm, Philadelphia 1776 comes to mind. Plymouth and 17thC puritan dress. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 23:27:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j833RjU0016343 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:27:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j833RFht035189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:27:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j833RCXY071166; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j833R9Gx071122 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:27:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 60401 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2005 03:27:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2005 03:27:03 -0000 Message-ID: <00e401c5b037$a419a0c0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <72adc26605090217516fbab27@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT posts re storm Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:29:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gentle List I made a donation to the American Red Cross this afternoon. I agree with Fran that it may be far more productive to send money if this is weighing on one's conscience or heart, than for the list to discuss or decide whether or not the off topic comments that have been made by folks from other countries are deliberately insensitive or simply naievete manifesting itself in an unpleasant way. I read the offending post, and honestly believe that Bjarne's shaky English is the culprit. It did not seem offensive to me. I thought it sounded like he'd heard some news stories abroad blaming Bush or the Federal gov't for the "mishandling" (again not taking a position, just repeating the news' latest spin) and was only commiserating, not trying to stir the pot. I genuinely thought he was trying to be kind, but he really doesn't have much command of the language. That said, Fran's also right, this isnt' the place for this discussion. People's hearts are breaking and it is way, way too real a catastrophe for those of us here to be discussing in any meaningful way. There's nothing we can do but send money or pray, or both. My heart goes out to those who are living this nightmare. Please let's not make this a place that is unpleasant by making it a political forum. Again, you all in the Gulf Coast are in my prayers. God speed. Back to costume content discussion.... angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 5:51 PM Subject: [h-cost] avoiding pain and distress, hang in there all > Hi folks... I'm sorry to see that Bjarne is being insensitive again. > I did not see what he wrote, and I have no desire to - I made a > policy some time ago to send all his posts to the trash unread. I > hope he hasn't hurt anyone with his words. The last thing we need is > more pain and distress. > > Hang in there all. > Much love > Mari / Bridgette > > On 9/2/05, Wanda Pease wrote: >> Bjarne, This might give you an even better idea of what the US is all >> about, even when we are stripped down to the essentials. The Coronation >> may >> seem trivial, but the determination to make it happen isn't. Sort of >> like >> the Danish Crown not giving up when the Nazi's poured over your borders. >> Not a natural disaster, but close enough for government work. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 23:54:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j833sKUP016584 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j833rwFZ036878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:53:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j833rvrc081158; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:53:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j833rrgs081131 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:53:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j833rmmU030243 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:53:48 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j833rl2P045184 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:53:52 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:41:11 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hippie sightings... In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Maybe because they were out of style by 1906? Or maybe because there were so few wearers of hoop skirts in California, compared to in other parts of the country. > :-) It's interesting how an era is frozen into/associated with the > identity of certain places. There's a good question, other than hoops in > the south, what other places are associated with historic dress? Hmmm, > Philadelphia 1776 comes to mind. Plymouth and 17thC puritan dress. Berkeley, CA, and the 1960s. You see aging Hippies, and ones whose parents were barely born in the 1960s, on the streets in Berkeley, CA, even today. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 23:54:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j833slhQ016594 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:54:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j833sGYC036918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:54:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j833sGJv081260; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:54:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j833sDsH081237 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:54:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EBP6a0zZh-0005T7; Fri, 02 Sep 2005 23:54:12 -0400 Message-ID: <006601c5b03b$24b15e50$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <007301c5b02a$d2ae9920$31d5f5dc@e9q5h8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] coastal news Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:54:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This will be my last comment about the Coastal situation.... more wonderful news! Susan got her electricity back on tonight! YIPPEE!! My brother in Mobile got his lights yesterday. Southern Alabama is pulling up gradually. Also, today my sister went into my mom's house and everything is okay! No lights or water and a lot of limbs in her yard of course, but her house is intact! Double YIPPEE!! We really do appreciate all the love, support letters, the prayers, and donations to the charities. I have read some of your letters to my family on the phone. Being in a disaster makes people feel like they are not cut off from the world, and that the world has forgotten them. I have been in aftermaths of hurricanes with all communication cut off, and it does feel that way. Your letters have given them hope that people care. Hope is one of the best things for them. Thanks so much again, Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 2 23:59:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j833xN7N016639 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j833wq8w037214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:58:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j833wnAo083119; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:58:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:wQtIvK/qQDQxTiDCjm3MnzqY9KGOE6yd@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j833wjQf083100 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:58:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.143] (206-124-5-143.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.143]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j833tEA22939 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:55:14 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0edfe55d0f9cc0249dca06c97f2f6453@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hippie sightings... Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:58:44 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I just have to laugh when you place Berkeley in the sixties with historic dress. I was one of those Berkeley hippies of the '60s and I didn't realize I was considered historic! Sylrog On Sep 2, 2005, at 9:41 PM, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> Maybe because they were out of style by 1906? > > Or maybe because there were so few wearers of hoop skirts in > California, compared to in other parts of the country. > >> :-) It's interesting how an era is frozen into/associated with the >> identity of certain places. There's a good question, other than >> hoops in the south, what other places are associated with historic >> dress? Hmmm, Philadelphia 1776 comes to mind. Plymouth and 17thC >> puritan dress. > > Berkeley, CA, and the 1960s. You see aging Hippies, and ones whose > parents were barely born in the 1960s, on the streets in Berkeley, CA, > even today. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 00:05:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8345NYI016682 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:05:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8344qGG037623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:04:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8344oQR085474; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:04:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8344lSc085450 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:04:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EBPGn2tBn-00056B; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:04:45 -0400 Message-ID: <007101c5b03c$9e261770$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:04:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] One last important message X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8345NYI016682 Status: RO This is so wonderful! I just received this message and please pass it on: Midwestern State University, Wichita Falls, Texas, http://www.mwsu.edu/ is opening its doors to students who now have no university for the fall because of the hurricane. If you know of university students who are in need of temporary (or permanent) university education because their school has been closed for the fall semester, (or longer) due to Hurricane Katrina, they can contact Barbara Merkle at 1-800-842-1922 or 940-397-4328. They will admit students late, and will charge in-state tuition. We need to be contacted by September 13th. Housing will be available. They have a theater department. Bless their hearts for being so thoughtful! Texas sure does have a big heart and is a good neighbor! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 00:24:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j834OEnt016819 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:24:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j834NoML038589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:23:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834Nnuw092460; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:23:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834NkSW092447 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:23:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j834NfmU004542 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:23:41 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j834NiXC064756 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:23:45 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050902210425.03280c58@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 21:23:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hippie sightings... In-Reply-To: <0edfe55d0f9cc0249dca06c97f2f6453@ntw.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I just have to laugh when you place Berkeley in the sixties with historic >dress. I was one of those Berkeley hippies of the '60s and I didn't >realize I was considered historic! Well, a friend of mine (same age) was speechless when her son was studying the Hippie period in school in history class. One of my daughters asked me what it was like "back then". I told her I got up in the morning, ate breakfast, etc. She was not amused, but I got her a modern book about the period (nicely written and illustrated) so she could read about all the things I missed (nobody could have gone to all the concerts, met all the people, etc.) So by now anything you and I wore in the 1960s is at least 'vintage'. My other daughter discovered plaid polyester double-knit trousers at a thrift store and pronounced them the coolest thing she'd ever bought. I did not share her enthusiasm... Hippies were more varied than the media ever gave them credit for - everything from Timothy Leary to Charles Manson. There were Christian Hippies, alternate religion Hippies, Eastern religion Hippies, Jewish Hippies, and atheist Hippies. There were political activist Hippies and back to nature Hippies who pretty much dropped out of the world of politics to live on agricultural communes out in the country. There were drug-using Hippies and drug-free Hippies. There were gun-toting, bomb-building Hippies and anti-violence, Peace-and-Love Hippies. And, of course, there were fiber craft Hippies and ethnic garment Hippies. I was those two kinds of Hippie. I still collect ethnic garments and needlework pieces, which, if they are made in traditional ways, are part of a living historical tradition. And I learned, or at least dabbled in, every fiber technique that I could get my hands on. I took up historical costuming in 1971 while I still dressed like a Hippie the rest of the time. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 00:36:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j834aBpo016904 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:36:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j834ZJYG039162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:35:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834ZHf2096846; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:35:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834ZDnJ096824 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EBPkA1xyL-0005vX; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:35:06 -0400 Message-ID: <007601c5b040$db7e4c10$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny><001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny><4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hippie sightings... Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:35:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol, Williamsburg: Colonial dress (Goof-ball that is where I met you! Remember my missing night-gown!) I remember seeing you dressed to the T for a dance with patches on your bosom! And what a handsome dandy your husband was! I always think of you two in costume as Mr. & Mrs. Williamsburg! Jamestown: (400 years celebration soon) All those Civil War Battlefields/Forts and the soldier reenactors. Natchez, MS and Bellegrath Gardens (down the road from Susan"s home) Azalea Trail Maids. (I just see Albert Cat grit his teeth. I remember that very old thread on the list.) Maymont and the Dooley Mansion in Richmond, Virginia. The 1890s and early 1900s Victorian Days. Carol, remember the Victorian picnic on the mansion's lawn for Costume Society's National Symposium. I loved the gentlemen and ladies playing croquet in their summer white costumes. As for New Orleans, I loved the men in their Southern gentlemen attire who were driving the carriages around the French Quarter. Susan and I had the time of our life doing that one night. Another New Orleans one, the groups dressed in costumes, all black capes and in Goth makeup, doing the Vampires tours around the French Quarters are night. What a hoot! My all time favorite costumes at N.O. Mardi Gras, a brother and sister dressed as ghosts coming out of graves. I have a photo of them that I have been searching for years for. An honorable mention, Duck Hunt, I have a photo of him... http://www.onlinecostumeball.com/1998/Guest5.htm he is one the first row. How creative! BTW, Robin you wrote me that your photo wasn't working on the online Ball just before I went on vacation. Can you please tell me the Ball year and the page number. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 00:57:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j834vQAN017075 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:57:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j834uiBs040393 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:56:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834uhQ3004847; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:56:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834ueLl004803 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:56:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FEE40669 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:56:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C244D3FF for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:56:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] One last important message Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:56:50 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <007101c5b03c$9e261770$6800a8c0@Penny> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This was posted through the MU systems. Dear University of Missouri family: The news of the devastation in the Gulf Coast region is heartbreaking. We extend our deepest sympathies to all the victims of Hurricane Katrina. We are taking the swiftest measures possible to aid those whose lives have been affected by this terrible tragedy. The four University of Missouri campuses have multiple plans in place to assist students who have been displaced by the hurricane and who wish to enroll in classes. University of Missouri Health Care is working with the Missouri Hospital Association, which is coordinating hospital relief efforts with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the American Hospital Association. Just some of the hospital system’s efforts include compiling lists of health worker volunteers, coordinating ambulance availability, making Columbia Regional and University Hospital beds available for victims, and making available telehealth services to victims and videoconferencing services to link families. For further information on the University’s hurricane relief efforts, please visit the following link: http://www.umsystem.edu/katrina Our thoughts remain with the victims of this disaster, and we wish them strength during this terrible time. Sincerely, Elson S. Floyd, Ph.D. President _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 00:57:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j834viXN017079 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j834uifo040392 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:56:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834ugtS004834; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:56:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j834uddW004794 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:56:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7703FFCF for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:56:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 605F9D497 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:56:38 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] costuming and natural disasters Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:56:49 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050902181021.02666a40@mail.frys.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO St. Louis has the Missouri and Mississippi rivers that have flooded areas in the past. I remember one year in school some students skipped school to help sandbag the man made river DePare(sp?) The New Madrid fault which is expected to have "the big one" sometime soon which will probably shift the Mississippi bank lines and periodic tornados. Most St. Louisians know that you need a house with a basement for the tornados but understand that it can and does flood in your basement so store in plastic emergency items. De -----Original Message----- >The people who live in the fault line of California know the Big One will >happen one day. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 01:15:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j835FQCZ017218 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:15:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j835ExcC041321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j835Evs8011250; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j835Esfp011229 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:14:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3035F406C3 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:14:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D4580D3FF for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:14:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT posts re storm Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:15:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <00e401c5b037$a419a0c0$0701a8c0@lazear1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I agree the your statement with Bjarne. The reason most are talking is because they/we are trying to make some sense of it all and in some cases see what went wrong in hopes that if it happens again then there will not be a repeat of the wrongs if possible. As well as a "what if some disaster happened here in my area" what would happen? are we prepared?" And yes this "topic" needs to dissipate and get back to costumes. De -----Original Message----- Gentle List I made a donation to the American Red Cross this afternoon. I agree with Fran that it may be far more productive to send money if this is weighing on one's conscience or heart, than for the list to discuss or decide whether or not the off topic comments that have been made by folks from other countries are deliberately insensitive or simply naievete manifesting itself in an unpleasant way. I read the offending post, and honestly believe that Bjarne's shaky English is the culprit. It did not seem offensive to me. I thought it sounded like he'd heard some news stories abroad blaming Bush or the Federal gov't for the "mishandling" (again not taking a position, just repeating the news' latest spin) and was only commiserating, not trying to stir the pot. I genuinely thought he was trying to be kind, but he really doesn't have much command of the language. That said, Fran's also right, this isnt' the place for this discussion. People's hearts are breaking and it is way, way too real a catastrophe for those of us here to be discussing in any meaningful way. There's nothing we can do but send money or pray, or both. My heart goes out to those who are living this nightmare. Please let's not make this a place that is unpleasant by making it a political forum. Again, you all in the Gulf Coast are in my prayers. God speed. Back to costume content discussion.... angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 01:20:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j835KM2U017256 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:20:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j835JxiR041661 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:19:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j835Jw0Y012897; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:19:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j835Jt5r012867 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EBQRV2jXE-00076V; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 01:19:53 -0400 Message-ID: <009001c5b047$1d30ef40$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] One last important message Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 01:19:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is the second message about different college's help since I posted that message. I am going to make a webpage with listings of universities that will take college students from the affected areas and their message. Poor University of Southern Mississippi lost their college in Pass Christian and the Hattiesburg campus received a lot of damage. Please get the word out that if a college is willing to accept these hurricane effected students, please let me know and I will post it to my website. I will have a link on the front of my website for students to go to late tomorrow night. This is a wonderful thing these colleges are doing, especially since most colleges started the week before the hurricane hit. Please make sure there is a website URL in message and a person to contact and their phone number. These affected students don't need to run a telephone gambit to get back into college. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 02:40:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j836euGC026168 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 02:40:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j836eFwn046241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:40:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j836eAMS041789; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:40:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j836e2QU041737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:40:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j836e1Aq013552; Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:40:02 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "H-Costume" , "SCA-GARB" Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 23:48:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/descrPage.mac/descrPage?selLa ng=English&indexClass=PICTURE_EN&PID=GJ-1586&numView=1&ID_NUM=2&thumbFile=%2 Ftmplobs%2FK1NDGRTTW_23_23OF3QT6.jpg&embViewVer=last&comeFrom=quick&sorting= no&thumbId=6&numResults=2&tmCond=Allori+Alessandro&searchIndex=TAGFILEN&auth or=Allori%2C%26%2332%3BAlessandro Sorry for the cross post. I was looking for a copy of the Wedding at Cana by Allesandro Allori to look at Catherine de Medici's dress and found this instead. Ever since I made my first "Eleonora" dress from Janet Arnold's book I have found her fascinating. I know the above URL is ridiculously long but snipurl doesn't want anything to do with it. It is a portrait of Eleonora in the Hermitage collection. It is unlike any portrait of her that I've see, but Allori was a fosterling of Bronzino so he might have had some sittings. The dress is fantastic! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 07:33:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83BXjDI018456 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:33:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83BWtNq064570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 05:32:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83BWoSV046440; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 05:32:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j83BWk5s046408 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 05:32:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sismith42@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58069 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2005 11:32:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Q9axujjvkYNkJxFOjueo8c7zMsGIzzKKd2bAOTAaRQ5KhDSMW7JzZsKQ8fgm2NpX2fI6U+cIBtEkEQ95afbjhG0NR+eOp+kXMGVln/hfKC0Iy0Sb/aehYnGiNozfDy6DQP1I7RTtsFgf/+6NjlnL/SnBzBlaJZLt118m2KNlhiA= ; Message-ID: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [80.192.34.140] by web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 04:32:41 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 04:32:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephanie Smith To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509030401.j833wnoQ083121@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote: "The whole modern wearable art movement is an outgrowth of DIY hippie crafts. I'm hoping to see the DIY aspects, the loving-hands-at-home experiments, revived as a foundation for a new generation of fiber artists." I reply: Huh. My first encounters with fiber-arts came with my grandmother (now 79); I doubt she'd enjoy being called a hippie (but i won't tell) ;-) Good to know that's where/when/how working with textiles and fiber went from something one did if you were too poor to buy you clothes to something one did as an artform :-) When did "off the rack" clothes become THE WAY to go, as opposed to just being what people who couldn't afford to have clothes made for them wore? Stephanie __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 07:55:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Btr6O018620 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:55:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Bswrh068987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 05:54:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83BsvtE054119; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 05:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83BsrAw054102 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 05:54:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rapierlady@earthlink.net) Received: from elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.41]) by pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EBWbl-0003Es-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:54:53 -0400 Message-ID: <11834440.1125748493563.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:54:53 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Wendy Colbert To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] One last important message Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, Both CMU and PITT, in Pittsburgh, PA have also made the same offer. BOth have Theatre departments. Wendy Proud grad of the PITT theatre program -----Original Message----- From: Penny Ladnier Sent: Sep 3, 2005 12:04 AM To: h-costume Subject: [h-cost] One last important message This is so wonderful! I just received this message and please pass it on: Midwestern State University, Wichita Falls, Texas, http://www.mwsu.edu/ is opening its doors to students who now have no university for the fall because of the hurricane. If you know of university students who are in need of temporary (or permanent) university education because their school has been closed for the fall semester, (or longer) due to Hurricane Katrina, they can contact Barbara Merkle at 1-800-842-1922 or 940-397-4328. They will admit students late, and will charge in-state tuition. We need to be contacted by September 13th. Housing will be available. They have a theater department. Bless their hearts for being so thoughtful! Texas sure does have a big heart and is a good neighbor! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 08:23:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83CNRMa018786 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:23:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83CN3ag076508 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 06:23:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83CN2DY064232; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 06:23:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83CMwda064203 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 06:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83CN8xH018254 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:23:08 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83CMphc125960 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:22:57 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903051734.03360f20@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 05:18:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200509030401.j833wnoQ083121@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >When did "off the rack" clothes >become THE WAY to go, as opposed to just being what >people who couldn't afford to have clothes made for >them wore? Probably as soon as they became plentiful and cheap. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 09:46:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Dk9U8019305 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:46:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Dj62E085036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:45:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Dj20N095990; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:45:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav1.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83DiwoF095870 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:45:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bear_janet@msn.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 06:44:53 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.200 by BAY106-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:44:52 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.200] X-Originating-Email: [bear_janet@msn.com] X-Sender: bear_janet@msn.com From: "JAMES OGILVIE" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009001c5b047$1d30ef40$6800a8c0@Penny> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:44:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:44:51 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Sep 2005 13:44:53.0196 (UTC) FILETIME=[A995A0C0:01C5B08D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] collages and hurricane relief X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j83Dk9U8019305 Status: RO Another generous offer: http://www.mercyhurst.edu/ne/college_news_detail.php?id=777&m=9&y=2005 although I'm confused as to whether the tri-state area they are referring to is the tri-state area around Erie or the tri-state area hit by the hurricane. Janet _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 10:12:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83ECHLJ019513 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:12:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83EBauH087044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:11:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83EBWDQ007260; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:11:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83EBTxn007196 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:11:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668843B5F9 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:11:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4319AF29.5080804@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 09:11:53 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <200509030401.j833wnoQ083121@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903051734.03360f20@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903051734.03360f20@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> When did "off the rack" clothes >> become THE WAY to go, as opposed to just being what >> people who couldn't afford to have clothes made for >> them wore? > > > Probably as soon as they became plentiful and cheap. > Store bought clothing and household goods became a sign of affluence after the Depression, and again after WW2. People hid quilts under Sears bedspreads and only wore flour sack underwear to school on days they didn't have to change for gym. The 60's and 70's hippie movement spawned re-interest in those old crafts, and by the 80's it was being called "art". Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 10:19:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83EJv70019573 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:19:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83EJR7w087751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:19:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83EJQet010345; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:19:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83EJMLM010311 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:19:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.242] (pool180-242.patriot.net [209.249.180.242]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j83EJIwP021059 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:19:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <009001c5b047$1d30ef40$6800a8c0@Penny> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:18:44 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] collages and hurricane relief Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are many colleges and universities offering to accept students from hurricane areas, so unless people are talking about schools with a costume/theatre/textile program, I don't think they all need to be sent to the list. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 10:48:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83EmKQN019896 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:48:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83ElO7Y089602 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:47:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83ElLMX022412; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:47:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta16.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83ElICj022389 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from dm22.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta16.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB153FC72 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm22 Received: from mailweb09.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm22.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm22.4317aafd.10a23 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRDGbd29xN7TwIAAAAB,8bb3db0b69abc314eba3c430bf88557d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.132] Message-Id: <20050903074718.1472E818@dm22.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bjarne X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know this isn't costume related and I am not one of the popular people on this list, but I just couldn't keep quiet. The message Bjarne sent sounded like he was more surprised than critical, and give the guy credit - he writes better English than most of us do Danish. I wish I could speak any other language as well as he does. I know that many of us have family or dear friends in the areas hit and are a bit on edge right now, but it isn't fair to take it out on someone who was making an honest mistake. People the world over think that we in the United States are all rich - if you watch TV at all you will understand why. I do believe he was trying to be sympathetic and now he is just being quiet while he is being blasted. I, for one, admire his attempts at English and his wonderful handwork and costuming. I would sorely miss him if he left the list. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 10:50:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83EommX019921 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:50:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83EoU62089761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:50:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83EoTZ2023606; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83EoO6i023566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:50:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.242] (pool180-15.patriot.net [209.249.180.15]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j83EoKwW005380 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:50:22 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:48:54 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn said, >Berkeley, CA, and the 1960s. You see aging Hippies, and ones whose >parents were barely born in the 1960s, on the streets in Berkeley, >CA, even today. I have an "ageing" hippie next door who just turned 40. :-) Do you think, though, that the hippie styles in Berkeley are only due to the area, or because kids like the style again? Maybe a bit of both? I agree, though that the hippie look says Berkeley or Haight Ashbury. (Is that in Berkeley?) Or Woodstock, which is not close at all. :-) Goth styles are all over the place, particularly at night in cities. Or game conventions where they play Vampire. Hoopskirts evoke many places in the south east US - New Orleans, Atlanta, Mobile. I was thinking of the style that defines a specific city or area - black & white pilgrim/puritan is Massachussets and not anywhere else. Except, of course, Dutch paintings. Bustle gowns make me think of the midwest, I suppose due to the amount of growth during that era and I've seen a few houses that have them in their collection. But those era houses are all over the place. And to extend this discussion to the rest of the world, late 1500s/early 1600s is London due to Elizabeth. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 10:56:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Eus3F019991 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:56:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83EuP3T090113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:56:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83EuNSp026082; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j83EuJrt026015 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:56:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 26682 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2005 14:56:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=qf1tRVkLU49xObe3Xhh0YWmYt6foyRlnkmuA5DAPO8oWkFS/pZmkFSqGRg57WSiDbdXAJC7+Zoz4exScDG3DOa18AjNFTZ7upj53JE6qQ6H3+eNdbCiIKwZxzypGIIpIcyq8DQrtHd1FxvR/sMsel6PORV1XdG0h9KFCM+ZPp6c= ; Message-ID: <20050903145614.26680.qmail@web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.69.137.8] by web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:56:14 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 07:56:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050903074718.1472E818@dm22.mta.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I second that and Thank You Lalah for wording it so much better than I would have/could have. I can NOT imagine Bjarne ever being rude and I realize we've never met nor probably ever will, but his whole demeanor online has always been respectful IMHO. Christine Gallucci Lalah wrote: I know this isn't costume related and I am not one of the popular people on this list, but I just couldn't keep quiet. The message Bjarne sent sounded like he was more surprised than critical, and give the guy credit - he writes better English than most of us do Danish. I wish I could speak any other language as well as he does. I know that many of us have family or dear friends in the areas hit and are a bit on edge right now, but it isn't fair to take it out on someone who was making an honest mistake. People the world over think that we in the United States are all rich - if you watch TV at all you will understand why. I do believe he was trying to be sympathetic and now he is just being quiet while he is being blasted. I, for one, admire his attempts at English and his wonderful handwork and costuming. I would sorely miss him if he left the list. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr. Seuss Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. Ralph Waldo Emerson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 11:31:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83FVCRf020283 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:31:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83FUiZl092136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:30:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83FUgJa040266; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:30:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83FUdoh040222 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:30:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jaurbik@optonline.net) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ool-18bdecc2.dyn.optonline.net [24.189.236.194]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IM8007UVZ2VFK2S@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:31:33 -0400 From: J Schueller Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies) In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4319C1D5.4080104@optonline.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On the topic of the south and hoop skirts.... Were the hoop skirts popular later in the south then the north? I mean, our (ok, mine and I am a typical yankee) picture of "THE SOUTH" is alweays with ladies in hoops, but I would assume that the north had just as many ladies wearing hoops at the same time..... jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 11:51:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83FpMBw020550 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:51:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83FoYsB093230 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:50:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83FoXbm048034; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:50:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.131]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83FoS7w047984 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:50:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-69-34-25-82.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [69.34.25.82]) by smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D54E32C00C for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:50:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:50:00 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001001c5b09f$29be6780$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <4319C1D5.4080104@optonline.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j83FoS7w047984 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I did some extensive research on mid-19th century skirt supports (corded petticoats, cage and covered crinolines, etc.) for a presentation last year. Based on manufacturing and sales records, crinolines were widely available and worn anywhere in the country, including the far west. This is amply supported by original photographs, extant crinolines, and commentary in period magazines, newspapers, letters and journals. The average retail price for a crinoline c. 1855-1865 was $0.25-$2.00 each, depending on the overall style and the number of steels. Documentation indicates that the style spread quite rapidly across the country - within a few months at most. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 11:54:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83FrxMq020573 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:54:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83FrhEa093445 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:53:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Frgut049378; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:53:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83FrZwl049320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:53:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.50] (pool180-50.patriot.net [209.249.180.50]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j83FrW92002854 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:53:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4319C1D5.4080104@optonline.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> <4319C1D5.4080104@optonline.net> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:52:58 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jordana said, >On the topic of the south and hoop skirts.... Were the hoop skirts >popular later in the south then the north? I mean, our (ok, mine >and I am a typical yankee) picture of "THE SOUTH" is alweays with >ladies in hoops, but I would assume that the north had just as many >ladies wearing hoops at the same time..... Perhaps we have Scarlett O'Hara to thank for the hoopskirts, especially the barer evening dress worn at the picnic. :-) The American Civil War marked a great change for the south, and therefore an era greatly identified with the region. When I think of the real daytime wear, the buttoned up hooped gowns in the sepia toned portraits, I think of Gettysburg, PA. That's probably because it's near me and I've done reenactments there, so it's strictly personal. But the fluffy pastel colored ballgowns - that's the south. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 12:13:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83GD0wH020714 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:13:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83GCdTV094622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GCaKp057289; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:12:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.131]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GCQYW057193 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:12:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-69-34-25-82.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [69.34.25.82]) by smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1084A32C00C for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:12:25 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:12:01 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001301c5b0a2$3d4527a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j83GCQYW057193 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] regional crinoline fashions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I disagree. For every extant pastel colored ballgown *documented* to the South, I can show you one documented to the North, or the Midwest, or the West, or Canada, or Europe. And I can do the same for every "buttoned up" dress documented to the North or any other region of the country. There are some regional differences in style, but they are minor elements of the overall fashion and stem more frequently from local customs and availability than a "if this is pale pink it must be Mississippi" trend. One of the most stunning original dresses I've seen is in the collection of the Cincinnati Art Museum: a bright sapphire blue silk taffeta woven a disposition, originally from Gettysburg, PA. Carolann Schmitt, Life-long Gettysburgian cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83GDtNw020720 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:13:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83GDU9n094684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:13:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GDTa6057642; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:13:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GDQba057561 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:13:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j83GDKR03564 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:13:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) In-Reply-To: References: <009001c5b047$1d30ef40$6800a8c0@Penny> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9AD4B7A6-C80F-4D3C-A68F-D1E8B83CD58B@alfalfapress.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] collages and hurricane relief Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:13:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oregon State University is also taking in hurricane displaced students. We have both a theater and textiles program. It's a great place to live, but I'm tremendously biased. :D Althea _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 12:34:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83GYdTG020847 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83GYFaE096135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:34:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GYDes066832; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:34:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GY96P066761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:34:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EBaxl-0003YA-DA; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:33:53 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:33:53 -0500 Message-ID: <20050903113353.9rtqwy5polwc44kg@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:33:53 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] collages and hurricane relief References: <009001c5b047$1d30ef40$6800a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The University of Tennessee is as well -- and they also have a theatre Department. In fact, as of Tuesday, my department will have a Tulane grad Student for at least the semester. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 12:44:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Giasc020952 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Gi1Vm096772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:44:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Ghxe8070971; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:43:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GhsVB070944 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:43:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.27]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EBb7S-0000pX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:43:54 -0400 Message-ID: <22365507.1125765834184.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:43:53 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO May I echo Chris and Lalah, and further suggest (in the great American tradition of free speech) that anyone who has shared hundreds of pieces of useful costume information and dozens of beautiful and inspiring pictures of finished costumes and works-in-progress can be considered to have earned the right to express one political opinion a year on this list. I haven't earned that right yet, but would be delighted to discuss politics off-list any time! Meanwhile, thank you, Bjarne, for your concern for the people in this country. And my own deepest sympathy for those affected by this disaster, both those in Katrina's zone and their loved ones and associates. Ruth Anne Baumgartner gypsy scholar and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: Chris Sent: Sep 3, 2005 9:56 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne I second that and Thank You Lalah for wording it so much better than I would have/could have. I can NOT imagine Bjarne ever being rude and I realize we've never met nor probably ever will, but his whole demeanor online has always been respectful IMHO. Christine Gallucci Lalah wrote: I know this isn't costume related and I am not one of the popular people on this list, but I just couldn't keep quiet. The message Bjarne sent sounded like he was more surprised than critical, and give the guy credit - he writes better English than most of us do Danish. I wish I could speak any other language as well as he does. I know that many of us have family or dear friends in the areas hit and are a bit on edge right now, but it isn't fair to take it out on someone who was making an honest mistake. People the world over think that we in the United States are all rich - if you watch TV at all you will understand why. I do believe he was trying to be sympathetic and now he is just being quiet while he is being blasted. I, for one, admire his attempts at English and his wonderful handwork and costuming. I would sorely miss him if he left the list. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr. Seuss Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. Ralph Waldo Emerson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 12:44:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Gif76020955 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:44:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83GiNO6096807 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:44:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GiMDa071155; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:44:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GiI7V071088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:44:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EBb7a-0004GL-UL; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:44:02 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:44:02 -0500 Message-ID: <20050903114402.v1w6u6guycpw48ck@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:44:02 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne References: <20050903145614.26680.qmail@web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050903145614.26680.qmail@web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Chris : > I second that and Thank You Lalah for wording it so much better than > I would have/could have. > > I can NOT imagine Bjarne ever being rude and I realize we've never > met nor probably ever will, but his whole demeanor online has always > been respectful IMHO. > IWhile I normally don't like the "Me Too" posts, I have to add my "me too" to this. Often, Bjarne's work is a calm oasis in this hectic life that we lead. Susan who has heard similar comments from new foreign students this week -- and nobody was being critical, just surprised. ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 12:49:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Gni8B021006 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:49:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83GnR9v097158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:49:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GnQrO073326; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:49:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GnMLZ073296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:49:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.50] (pool180-88.patriot.net [209.249.180.88]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j83GnHUQ007423 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:49:20 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001301c5b0a2$3d4527a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> References: <001301c5b0a2$3d4527a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:48:43 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] regional crinoline fashions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was looking at the way certain eras of fashion are associated with an area, which is different than what people were actually wearing. It's not the reality, it's what we perceive based on movies, popular culture, etc. Hippies were everywhere, but now identified with Berkeley. Black hats with buckles on them were not the fashion at Plymouth, Mass, but they're all over the souvenir shops. I'm imagining a "what city is this" sort of thing based on the historic costume icons. -Carol >I disagree. For every extant pastel colored ballgown *documented* to >the South, I can show you one documented to the North, or the >Midwest, or the West, or Canada, or Europe. And I can do the same >for every "buttoned up" dress documented to the North or any other >region of the country. There are some regional differences in style, >but they are minor elements of the overall fashion and stem more >frequently from local customs and availability than a "if this is >pale pink it must be Mississippi" trend. > >One of the most stunning original dresses I've seen is in the >collection of the Cincinnati Art Museum: a bright sapphire blue silk >taffeta woven a disposition, originally from Gettysburg, PA. > >Carolann Schmitt, Life-long Gettysburgian >cschmitt@genteelarts.com >www.genteelarts.com >Ladies and Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 12:52:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Gq9EI021032 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83GpddV097303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:51:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Gpcn1074383; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:51:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GpYQg074332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:51:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-97.sonic.net [209.148.113.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GpWdk016340 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:51:33 -0700 Message-ID: <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 09:51:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Off-the-rack clothes became THE WAY to go in the 1920s. Problem was, during the depression of the 1930s and the war rationing and shortages of the 1940s, a great many people had to home sew, restyle clothing, and think up ways to use things like flour sacks just to get something to wear. While home dressmaking was associated with economy even in the 19th century--the small amount one would spend on a low-end dressmaker was still worth saving if you had a small clothes budget--economy became its primary association. 1950s dressmaking manuals told women they could make clothes that would look just like RTW, so they didn't have to admit they home sewed. Then, in the late 1960s and early 1970s, there was a "counterculture" reaction against things manufactured by the "establishment," including clothing, food, and many other things. People took up not only home sewing (see _The Illustrated Hassle-Free Make Your Own Clothes Book_), but bread baking (see the _Tassajara Bread Book_), organic gardening, candle making, and lots of other crafts. The emphasis was not only on doing it yourself, but on _not_ imitating "plastic" ready-made clothes, supermarket food, etc. Many completely inexperienced people were experimenting with various crafts; and inexperience, as well as a "go with the flow" attitude, led to many original approaches. And by the 1980s, some people had become very skilled, in fact professional, at patchwork, free-form crochet, and lots of other things. (The Tassajara bakery morphed into the very expensive, sophisticated, gourmet vegetarian restaurant Greens.) They published and taught about new approaches and techniques they'd developed. Companies like Folkwear were founded. Banks bought enormous fiber art hangings for their lobbies. It was very hip to study "fiber arts" in college (not usually sewing, but weaving, spinning, crochet, embroidery, and such). The modern reenactment movement (I'm excluding things like Victorian costume balls and jousts when I say "modern") also, I believe, got its start as part of the counterculture. The SCA started as a bunch of hippies who enjoyed dressing in colorful clothes and evolved into a much larger organization with much more complicated goals. While I'm greatly enjoying the modern "boho" revival (especially gypsy skirts; I've accumulated a largish collection), as far as I can tell it focuses on people buying styles, not making them. Yes, in the 1960s and 1970s the RTW industry eagerly jumped on the counterculture bandwagon, manufacturing and selling "hippie" clothes. Still, there was a lot of DIY, which I don't think I'm seeing currently as a mainstream movement. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com >Good to know that's where/when/how working with >textiles and fiber went from something one did if you >were too poor to buy you clothes to something one did >as an artform :-) When did "off the rack" clothes >become THE WAY to go, as opposed to just being what >people who couldn't afford to have clothes made for >them wore? > >Stephanie > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail for Mobile >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 12:54:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83GswV3021055 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:54:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83GsbG7097500 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:54:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83GsZx4076204; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:54:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52809.mail.yahoo.com (web52809.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.252]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j83GsXNP076143 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:54:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 33124 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2005 16:54:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=T5TOl+kFAOdDLcBMNx8PgY470aBDff/tWx6ZLKVa4/xtgcAbEsyFRd9CSv+zLe6MQ62OTZbKORPOaugc8LvLSle1YpaFH6Hub0Nu0m2HUDRax/7/181AQmZ6bpkp4sUgoNecForamK6PnGybACzmB5x8zQkS9WAMBX/3DNJFaQI= ; Message-ID: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52809.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 09:54:28 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:54:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050903145614.26680.qmail@web31002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] belted houppelandes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Could someone walk me through the process of belting a houppelande just below the bustline? How did they keep the belts there, without having it "walk" itself down to the natural waistline? Was it tacked in places, and if so, wouldn't that interfere with the drape? And how were they fastened in back -- buckled, tied, pinned? This is for a stage costume, "accuracy" isn't the primary goal (don't hate me!) -- I want that look, but I'm not sure how best to achieve it. Thank you -- KP __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 13:05:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83H5bZQ021132 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:05:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83H59Yv098394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:05:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83H57AA081969; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:05:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83H54v0081934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:05:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j83Gxsjf025366 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:59:54 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:59:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4319D7BE.1080304@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:05:02 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes References: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathryn Parke wrote: > Could someone walk me through the process of belting a houppelande > just below the bustline? How did they keep the belts there, without > having it "walk"itself down to the natural waistline? Was it tacked > in places, and if so, wouldn't that interfere with the drape? And > how were they fastened in back -- buckled, tied, pinned? All excellent questions. And all answers that we can only guess at, except for the last one. There are some illustrations which show a buckle in the back, with a long tail hanging down from it. Some may have had short tails in the back. How were they kept up there? This is all conjecture. You could definitely tack it in place while the belt and houp are on the body -- which would allow a way to keep all those pleats even. You could make belt loops -- that's what I've done for my husband's houp. The men's houp belts often seem to be at the hip, and you *know* men's belts wouldn't magically stay put there! I belt my own houps tightly under the bust, and because I'm squishy, that works for me. But I am not sure it would work for everyone. There's a marvelous illustration at the USA National Gallery which shows a closeup of the top of a houp from 1410, which I recommend to everyone because it's so fascinating. Her belt seems to float magically over the top of her houp. http://www.nga.gov/collection/gallery/gg39/gg39-31.0.html -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 13:09:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83H9nYr021149 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:09:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83H9Wci098708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:09:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83H9UqF084050; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83H9Qv8084026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:09:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.50] (pool180-111.patriot.net [209.249.180.111]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j83H9MJC011159 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:09:24 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:07:59 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote, >1950s dressmaking manuals told women they could make clothes that >would look just like RTW, so they didn't have to admit they home >sewed. I worked in a clothing store in the early 1980s (got to look at a lot of ready-made), and also took sewing/tailoring/design classes in college. The clothing we made was far better quality than most of the ready-to-wear available. I would still hear "You made that? I thought you bought it!", in the sense that people expected home-made to look bad. When in fact, because we were learning how to fit, we could see that the self-sewn clothing looked a lot better! Also by then I found that home sewing was more expensive than store-bought just for the materials. But I would have the fit and quality of clothing that was otherwise unavailable to me. This is also apparent for reenactment clothing. In eras of fitted clothing, some items that are sold off-the-rack at events do not look as good as something custom-made (whether by one's self or someone else). -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 13:10:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83HAqiB021155 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:10:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83HAN90098794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:10:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83HAMl4084479; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:10:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83HAJrA084449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:10:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-97.sonic.net [209.148.113.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83H9xEr020220 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:10:13 -0700 Message-ID: <4319D8E6.2040801@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 10:09:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] regional crinoline fashions References: <001301c5b0a2$3d4527a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO BTW, my husband's answer to the question "What did hippies wear?" is "dense clouds of smoke." Fran Carol Kocian wrote: > > I was looking at the way certain eras of fashion are associated > with an area, which is different than what people were actually > wearing. It's not the reality, it's what we perceive based on movies, > popular culture, etc. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 14:05:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83I5LCb021600 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Hxrtn002378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:59:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83HxnQc005911; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:59:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Hxc9C005785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:59:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-97.sonic.net [209.148.113.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83HxTt7004807 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:59:30 -0700 Message-ID: <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 10:59:33 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm wondering, though, if anyone on h-costume is making RTW clothes for the boho market, perhaps selling on eBay? I'd think tiered crushed velvet gypsy skirts and tunics with bell sleeves might sell well this fall and winter. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > This is also apparent for reenactment clothing. In eras of > fitted clothing, some items that are sold off-the-rack at events do > not look as good as something custom-made (whether by one's self or > someone else). > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 14:11:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83IBYdo021672 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:11:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83I6B12002895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:06:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83I6A5u008628; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:06:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web42107.mail.yahoo.com (web42107.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j83I685o008579 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from faerieglenstudios@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 82725 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Sep 2005 18:06:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ScHfLY9UcXKIOJ+cLr9SrzSRcm7a7hK1/aEl/aRAilFp1CPyrO55jKxtANthqQ/VVn01dPVw4cIxwy+J1iI+meNUwAbp6SvqJOiYVTLYAj5Naihm+yT/dY9iHx654r5cBSN+vg3GiS63lG2ZLdSBqY/hzEFKr7EFmJNKHDyMtAk= ; Message-ID: <20050903180603.82723.qmail@web42107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.113.91.64] by web42107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 11:06:03 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:06:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jodi Nelson To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: [h-cost] Good News/Storm updates X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny, I am so glad to hear of the wonderful progress being made in the areas your family is near. I cried as I read each post and showed my DH the photos you shared. I am still offering any help you feel is needed for your family personally, as I have donated for the general relief.A local quilt guild I am a member of was discussing how to help. We have decided to make quilts for those who will be relocating to Utah {I live in St.George; Utah's "Dixie"}as they will not be prepared for a Salt Lake City snowy winter. Jodi --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 14:20:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83IKIrS021753 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:20:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83IEjKT003336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:14:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83IEfw9012221; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:14:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.131]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83IEbLS012184 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:14:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-69-34-25-82.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [69.34.25.82]) by smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E12C32C01C for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:14:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] regional crinoline fashions Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:14:12 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001b01c5b0b3$4eec7100$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My apologies - I misunderstood what you were saying. :-) Carolann Schmitt On Behalf Of Carol Kocian I was looking at the way certain eras of fashion are associated with an area, which is different than what people were actually wearing. It's not the reality, it's what we perceive based on movies, popular culture, etc. Hippies were everywhere, but now identified with Berkeley. Black hats with buckles on them were not the fashion at Plymouth, Mass, but they're all over the souvenir shops. I'm imagining a "what city is this" sort of thing based on the historic costume icons. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 14:56:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Iu0hr022027 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:56:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Isq8W005913 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:54:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Iso0Z028621; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j83IskBH028597 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:54:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 16057 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2005 19:32:02 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:32:02 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1040.67.188.164.116.1125773686.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 11:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Sorry for the cross post. > > I was looking for a copy of the Wedding at Cana by Allesandro Allori to > look > at Catherine de Medici's dress and found this instead. Ever since I made > my > first "Eleonora" dress from Janet Arnold's book I have found her > fascinating. I know the above URL is ridiculously long but snipurl > doesn't > want anything to do with it. It is a portrait of Eleonora in the > Hermitage > collection. It is unlike any portrait of her that I've see, but Allori > was > a fosterling of Bronzino so he might have had some sittings. The dress is > fantastic! Wanda, Could you give us a "how to get there" instead? I can't use the URL but if you said "go to the _____ website and hit the ____ button, etc" I could navigate to it myself.... Thanks! Diana > > > Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey > Never attribute to malice what can as easily > be attributed to simple social ineptness > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 14:59:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Ix5DS022058 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:59:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83IwiTr006184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:58:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Iwiml030058; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:58:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83IwdCj030017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:58:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j83IrUjf029797 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:53:30 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:53:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:58:37 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi H-Costume, You may remember a few months back that I was in pursuit of a legendary statement about how ugly real medieval clothes were said to be by folks teaching early SCAers how to dress. The East Kingdom Historian was kind enough to give me a copy of: ********************* "A Handbook of the Current Middle Ages" 1968, for Baycon -- this was the only demo at that time. Some excerpts from the clothing section, which is about six pages long: Please note that my tailoring instructions are not completely authentic. If this offends you, there are many texts available for more accurate patterns. A truly authentic dress is likely to appear clumsy to the modern eye. Old bedspreads, especially the sort with scalloped edges, frequently make fine dresses. The ones with scalloped edges make hemming unnecessary and so save time in sewing. Knit fabrics hang nicely in dresses, but tend to lose their shapes in banners. ********************** Now, please note that one of the areas which has seen a HUGE amount of study in the past dozen years of the SCA has been in clothing. I'm not trying to make rude fun of the writer, or the early SCA folks here, but it is interesting to see what was advised in those early days. Whatever the method, the pictures I've seen from those times (mostly courtesy of the West Kingdom History Project website) are charming and medieval-looking. As far as I know, there were not any "texts available for more accurate patterns" despite what the writer had said -- at least, not by our 21st century standards -- but if some of you who were doing historical sewing in the 60s knew of any, please do post! The amazing detail in the Museum of London books only came out some dozen years ago, propagated by devoted folks like Mistress Tangwystl (Heather Rose Jones) and Robin Netherton, and with it, an astonishing realization by the archeological community that there were re-enactment hobbyists who might want to buy their journals. And then hobbyists draping fabric and trying to figure out the fabric tech of the Middle Ages -- not assuming that a set-in sleeve was of course what you did for a tunic, and so on. (Note that the writer of this section does say that darts and set-in sleeves are "recent" inventions, but the included patterns include them anyway.) A last detail: the writer calls a sideless surcoat a "cotehardie." These days, that's what we call the fitted gown which goes under a woman's sideless surcoat, unless we're being really precise, and then we clothing-wonks call it a Gothic Fitted Dress. (There was another site with pictures, but it's offline at the moment.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 15:22:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83JM0OW022304 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:22:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83JKMPS007819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:20:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JKKhk038987; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:20:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JKHWF038959 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:20:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EBdYm0IpE-000686; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:20:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c5b0bc$83a78020$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050903180603.82723.qmail@web42107.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good News/Storm updates Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jodi, Thank you for your help. This has been a sad, sad, situation. But good things are occurring daily. You might want to contact your local Red Cross. They are coordinating the people moving into other areas of the country. I talked with the chair of our local chapter and he said they can use all the local help they can get. They had a crash training course. Please give your quilt guild our heart felt thanks. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 15:28:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83JSP0R022380 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:28:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83JRrfW008253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:27:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JRqMW041802; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:27:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JRm0M041770 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EBdg245yT-0005ps; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:27:46 -0400 Message-ID: <002d01c5b0bd$906590d0$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050903180603.82723.qmail@web42107.mail.yahoo.com> <000a01c5b0bc$83a78020$6800a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Good News/Storm updates Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:27:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am sorry, I thought I had sent that off-list. My apologies. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 15:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83JV2V4022407 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83JUjRh008378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:30:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JUiPf043046; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:30:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JUgMk043028 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:30:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE4F40079 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:30:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 92FCCC49C for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:30:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] collages and hurricane relief Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:30:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well to cover my posting of Univ. of MO. Univ. of MO, Columbia has a textile college (Human Environment Sciences) and a theatre college. Stephens College near by which has a major enrollment and focus with costuming and textiles may join the ranks of assistance to students. De -----Original Message----- There are many colleges and universities offering to accept students from hurricane areas, so unless people are talking about schools with a costume/theatre/textile program, I don't think they all need to be sent to the list. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 16:00:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83K00Z9022780 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:00:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83JxZUV009923 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:59:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JxXYP053937; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:59:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JxUhr053916 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:59:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83JxTbv019613 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:59:30 -0400 Message-ID: <431A00A9.5040806@msn.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:59:37 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I missed the first post. What is RTW??? I used to never buy any clothing because I would always think..."I can make that." But of course I rarely got around to it. Then another sewing friend of mine set me straight. "Never make anything you can buy-only make those things that you can't buy." Thats has been my new motto for several years now, and has suited me well since I spend most of my sewing time doing historic stuff! You were lucky that you learned how to fit and sew. Most folks I know now only learned how to sew. If they didn't have a pattern for it, forget it...and I was never taught how to adjust a pattern as a younster sewing. I picked all that up much later. Sg Carol Kocian wrote: > > Fran wrote, > >> 1950s dressmaking manuals told women they could make clothes that >> would look just like RTW, so they didn't have to admit they home sewed. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 16:02:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83K2cg8022809 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:02:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83K2FEf010085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:02:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83K2E4A055007; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:02:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83K2B0R054953 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:02:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83K2Abv024193 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:02:10 -0400 Message-ID: <431A014A.3010109@msn.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:02:18 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <001301c5b0a2$3d4527a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Woven a disposition? was: regional crinoline fashions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What does this mean? Sg > > One of the most stunning original dresses I've seen is in the > collection of the Cincinnati Art Museum: a bright sapphire blue silk > taffeta woven a disposition, originally from Gettysburg, PA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 16:06:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83K6WmB022831 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:06:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83K6F2j010300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83K6EOA056544; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:06:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83K6BOS056498 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:06:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B023FBB8 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:06:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EECF214D6D for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:06:10 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:06:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.hermitagemuseum.org click on English go to quick search and type in A.Alessandro, click on go scroll down to the paintings, click on "next 5-16 matches" click on "next 17 - 28 matches". scroll down to #25 You probably have seen this. Someone has it on their website. Eleanor has a high collared cream dress with a light teal sleeveless overdress that has red and gold embroidery on it. I like this site as you can zoom in much better. Her dress is pleated w/red and green braid holding it in place w/matching pleated sleeves. Wonderful details. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 16:19:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83KJ7Wm022944 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:19:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83KIhg6011241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:18:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KIgV6061395; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KIdiS061376 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:18:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CC3401A3 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:18:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C4ED914D13 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:18:38 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:18:52 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not sure what happened but the number switched. It is now #22. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 16:21:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83KLmWf023005 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83KLUc5011407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KLT0G062483; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KJdIb061803 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:19:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j83KJXud025771 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:19:38 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:28:26 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1040.67.188.164.116.1125773686.squirrel@www.inreach.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pardon me if this looks patronizing. It isn't. I am putting these down as I try it out, hoping it works. I should have done it this way in the first place instead of plastering that ridiculous URL in my message (it was late - hangs head) Go to http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/index.html go to Digital Collection http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/browse.mac/category?selLang=E nglish Choose Paintings beside the search box. Then click Browse by Artist. Go down the list until you see Allori, Allesandro. There are two pictures and Eleonora is the lady in peacock blue with her hair very close to her head. You can put in Allori in the Quick search box but that brings up a number of works in other media that aren't necessarily relevant. Regina Romsey OL, OP, Drachenwald/East, Now Proud Resident of the Laurel Kingdom of AnTir and the Pacific NorthWet > Wanda, > > Could you give us a "how to get there" instead? I can't use the URL but > if you said "go to the _____ website and hit the ____ button, etc" I could > navigate to it myself.... > > Thanks! > > Diana > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 16:22:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83KM3Vx023010 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:22:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83KLiRC011436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:21:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KLhQ4062567; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:21:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KKe0b062189 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:20:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from heather.jones@earthlink.net) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=DPJGRP4dTfSxUBZ/Mv9JXXS4OSkP2lGdPGkQoYflKbZ+eTw2WLzigh6fZbCAxXYx; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [67.101.97.45] (helo=[10.0.1.3]) by smtpauth04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EBeVD-0008Fx-MW for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:20:39 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: heather.jones@earthlink.net@earthlink.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:21:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Heather Rose Jones Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: c920284270743d76aa459df8244ac33774bf435c0eb9d4780ee233803547b910e411024af1e562727fdc682fe2517d03350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 67.101.97.45 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:54 AM -0700 9/3/05, Kathryn Parke wrote: >Could someone walk me through the process of belting a houppelande >just below the bustline? How did they keep the belts there, without >having it "walk" itself down to the natural waistline? Was it >tacked in places, and if so, wouldn't that interfere with the drape? >And how were they fastened in back -- buckled, tied, pinned? This >is for a stage costume, "accuracy" isn't the primary goal (don't >hate me!) -- I want that look, but I'm not sure how best to achieve >it. Although this isn't a style that I wear very often (except for the masculine version with the more natural belt-line), my experience has been that if your belt is wide and relatively stiff, e.g., made from oak-tan leather, then if you buckle it rather snugly just under the breasts, the lower edge will ride right around where your waist starts flaring to the hips. (Women with a relatively long waist or narrow hips will have a different experience than me.) If you remember that the fashionable silhouette of the time included a gently rounded belly, it seems plausible that this method may have been part of how it worked. Another factor may be that if your gown fabric is relatively heavy (as seems to be the case from how it is depicted) and the gown is relatively flared (ditto), then the change in volume of fabric between the upper and lower edges of the belt may also help keep it from slipping downwards. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones heather.jones@earthlink.net ***** _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 16:35:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83KZbDc023101 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:35:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83KZ3VH012303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:35:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KZ27Q067875; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:35:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.131]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KYw8T067838 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:35:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from genteelarts (oh-69-34-25-82.dyn.sprint-hsd.net [69.34.25.82]) by smtpauth00.csee.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA07732C01D for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:34:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "Carolann Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Woven a disposition? Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:34:32 -0400 Organization: Genteel Arts Message-ID: <001e01c5b0c6$e9e55060$0600a8c0@genteelarts> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 In-Reply-To: <431A014A.3010109@msn.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j83KYw8T067838 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fabrics that are woven or printed "a disposition" are designed for a particular use or particular area in a garment, frequently along one edge of a flounce. (Our modern border prints are a distant cousin.) They were particularly popular during the mid-late 1850s, when the technology was at its peak. In addition to printed or woven designs, they were also made with trimmings - braids or fringe - woven into the edge of the fabric; and were often sold with matching or coordinating plain fabric and/or other trimmins. Some were produced with the pattern along the lengthwise edge; others had the pattern produced crosswise. Here are some links to just a few examples of dresses made from these fabrics: http://www.bowesmuseum.org.uk/collections/image.php3?Name=Woman%27s+Dress&im age=1989-4-3-cst-2-793.jpg http://www.zum.de/Faecher/G/BW/Landeskunde/schwaben/schloesser/ludwigsburg/m ode/rundgang/krinolin01.htm http://images.vam.ac.uk/images/photo/sch/20030207/high/1089-003.jpg http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?recview=true&id=458194&coll_ke ywords=dress&coll_package=0&coll_start=561 Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2-5, 2006 Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83KvgDg023274 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83KvKbe013819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KvJMC076203; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:57:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KvGRp076141 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086563B5FF for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:57:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:57:43 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > I'm wondering, though, if anyone on h-costume is making RTW clothes for > the boho market, perhaps selling on eBay? I'd think tiered crushed > velvet gypsy skirts and tunics with bell sleeves might sell well this > fall and winter. I can't compete with China, unfortunately. The RTW being imported is selling for less than my cost of materials. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:01:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83L1ao0023305 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:01:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83L1Fc1014100 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:01:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L1DLV077802; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:01:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L19te077766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:01:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-85.sonic.net [209.148.113.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L17p3006664 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:01:08 -0700 Message-ID: <431A0F17.40007@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:01:11 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <431A00A9.5040806@msn.com> In-Reply-To: <431A00A9.5040806@msn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO RTW=Ready-to-wear. I've pretty much quit making modern fashion clothes. My motto is, as well as making what I can't buy, to only buy things that I find interesting, as a process, to make. So I do almost exclusively historic clothes now . . . and, since I'm short, a lot of alterations of modern RTW. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com WickedFrau wrote: > I missed the first post. What is RTW??? > > I used to never buy any clothing because I would always think..."I can > make that." But of course I rarely got around to it. Then another > sewing friend of mine set me straight. "Never make anything you can > buy-only make those things that you can't buy." Thats has been my new > motto for several years now, and has suited me well since I spend most > of my sewing time doing historic stuff! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:03:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83L3tgM023338 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83L3XE6014263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L3Wsd078807; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:03:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L3U5N078781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:03:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-85.sonic.net [209.148.113.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L3SvA007108 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:03:29 -0700 Message-ID: <431A0FA4.6060901@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:03:32 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Woven a disposition? was: regional crinoline fashions References: <001301c5b0a2$3d4527a0$0600a8c0@genteelarts> <431A014A.3010109@msn.com> In-Reply-To: <431A014A.3010109@msn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A disposition means with a pattern printed or woven in, to be arranged a certain way when making the garment. For example, you can get modern "border" fabrics, with a special border intended to be used at the bottom of a skirt. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com WickedFrau wrote: > What does this mean? > Sg > >> >> One of the most stunning original dresses I've seen is in the >> collection of the Cincinnati Art Museum: a bright sapphire blue silk >> taffeta woven a disposition, originally from Gettysburg, PA > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:08:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83L82AE023387 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:08:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83L7cYm014468 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L7cTr080327; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:07:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L7WSW080301 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-85.sonic.net [209.148.113.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83L7Upu007906 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:07:31 -0700 Message-ID: <431A1097.3040101@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:07:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It can be really amazing. I've been buying cotton gauze skirts from a Thai seller whose eBay ID is aonneo. He (or she? I can't figure out the gender from the name) sells them for as low as $8 apiece, never more than $15. It depends on the skirt style and how well the auctions are going. Shipping is very reasonable too, less than I've paid many eBay sellers for shipping within the US. And fast, and efficient. BUT, those are all thin cotton skirts . . . and I'm looking for velvet for fall/winter. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Dawn wrote: > Lavolta Press wrote: > >> I'm wondering, though, if anyone on h-costume is making RTW clothes >> for the boho market, perhaps selling on eBay? I'd think tiered >> crushed velvet gypsy skirts and tunics with bell sleeves might sell >> well this fall and winter. > > > > I can't compete with China, unfortunately. The RTW being imported is > selling for less than my cost of materials. > > > Dawn > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:10:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LAml1023413 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LAXFD014579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LAWfQ081399; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LASqP081357 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83LANmU013026 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:23 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LACFh083218 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:27 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:54:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >1950s dressmaking manuals told women they could make clothes that would >look just like RTW, so they didn't have to admit they home sewed. It was a big day in my brother's life when he stopped letting my mother sew his shirts for him. That was about 1964. >Then, in the late 1960s and early 1970s, there was a "counterculture" >reaction against things manufactured by the "establishment," including >clothing, food, and many other things. People took up not only home >sewing (see _The Illustrated Hassle-Free Make Your Own Clothes Book_), but >bread baking (see the _Tassajara Bread Book_), organic gardening, candle >making, and lots of other crafts. The emphasis was not only on doing it >yourself, but on _not_ imitating "plastic" ready-made clothes, supermarket >food, etc. Many completely inexperienced people were experimenting with >various crafts; and inexperience, as well as a "go with the flow" >attitude, led to many original approaches. That's when Hippies started embroidering their blue jeans and wearing ethnic garments. >And by the 1980s, some people had become very skilled, in fact >professional, at patchwork, free-form crochet, and lots of other >things. (The Tassajara bakery morphed into the very expensive, >sophisticated, gourmet vegetarian restaurant Greens.) They published and >taught about new approaches and techniques they'd developed. Companies >like Folkwear were founded. Banks bought enormous fiber art hangings for >their lobbies. It was very hip to study "fiber arts" in college (not >usually sewing, but weaving, spinning, crochet, embroidery, and such). You must live in Northern CA. >The modern reenactment movement (I'm excluding things like Victorian >costume balls and jousts when I say "modern") also, I believe, got its >start as part of the counterculture. The SCA started as a bunch of >hippies who enjoyed dressing in colorful clothes and evolved into a much >larger organization with much more complicated goals. Ren. Faires started in the early 1960s, and their founder coined the term "living history". >Still, there was a lot of DIY, which I don't think I'm seeing currently as >a mainstream movement. "Wearable art", while not being exactly mainstream is at least common. Places like Michael's craft stores carry supplies for making wearable art, and a few kits for the same. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:10:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LAssl023417 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LAWfp014574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LAVBT081388; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LAR87081355 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83LALmU013014 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:22 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LACFd083218 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:25 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903132748.03420770@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:43:28 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies) In-Reply-To: <001001c5b09f$29be6780$0600a8c0@genteelarts> References: <4319C1D5.4080104@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I did some extensive research on mid-19th century skirt supports (corded >petticoats, cage and covered crinolines, etc.) for a presentation last year. >Based on manufacturing and sales records, crinolines were widely available >and worn anywhere in the country, including the far west. This is amply >supported by original photographs, extant crinolines, and commentary in >period magazines, newspapers, letters and journals. The average retail price >for a crinoline c. 1855-1865 was $0.25-$2.00 each, depending on the overall >style and the number of steels. > >Documentation indicates that the style spread quite rapidly across the >country - within a few months at most. Our Gold Rush started in 1849. In the circular-skirt-support period there were substantially fewer women in California, per capita, than in other parts of the country. So fewer circular-skirt-supports were being worn. (This includes Chinese and Hispanic women, who were also few and far between, and much less likely to wear circular-skirt-supports anyway.) Circular-skirt-supports were less common because women were less common. As the years went by more women arrived, increasing their percentage of the population. But by like 1870 very few, if any, women were still wearing circular-skirt-supports. My point being that women in hoop skirts never became part of the Gold Rush image. Men wearing Levis did, to the extent that there's one on the California State Seal. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:10:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LAtSV023420 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LAVxD014571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LAUcA081380; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LARwH081354 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83LAKmU013006 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:22 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LACFb083218 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:22 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903131125.033da448@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:26:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies) In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Kayta said, >>Berkeley, CA, and the 1960s. You see aging Hippies, and ones whose >>parents were barely born in the 1960s, on the streets in Berkeley, CA, >>even today. > > I have an "ageing" hippie next door who just turned 40. :-) Do you > think, though, that the hippie styles in Berkeley are only due to the > area, or because kids like the style again? Maybe a bit of both? I > agree, though that the hippie look says Berkeley or Haight Ashbury. (Is > that in Berkeley?) Or Woodstock, which is not close at all. :-) Haight Ashbury (or "the Haight") is the name of the area around the intersection of Haight Street and Ashbury Street in San Francisco. In my sartorial opinion, people today are more likely to wear Hippie clothes in Berkeley than in San Francisco, even people too young to have been Hippies the first time. In the San Francisco Bay Area, Hippie clothes say Berkeley rather than San Francisco, to the locals. The Haight Ashbury neighborhood has moved on beyond Hippie things, mostly, and is a mixture of gentrification and modern street kids. A mile downhill on Haight Street ("the Lower Haight"), things are more Hippie-like and more young-artist driven. Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley, a street dead-ending at the U.C.Berkeley campus, is another mix of gentrification and modern young people, but there's a daily street fair of sidewalk crafts booths that adds a distinct Hippie flavor to the area. More than one of these booths sells tie-dye shirts and other tie-dye items. A few sell bead jewelry. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:11:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LB48x023423 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:11:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LAgJ8014617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LAfPc081480; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LATHw081363 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83LAOmU013050 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:24 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LACFj083218 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:28 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903135819.0253f2b0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:03:57 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >As far as I know, there were not any "texts available for more accurate >patterns" despite what the writer had said -- at least, not by our 21st >century standards -- but if some of you who were doing historical sewing >in the 60s knew of any, please do post! Hill and Bucknell's The Evolution of Fashion was published in 1969. It was intended for theatrical use rather than strict historical recreation, but at least it came with patterns. I joined the SCA in 1971 and was an anomaly because I already owned Davenport's costume book and tried to recreate costumes from in there. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:13:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LDTIp023458 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:13:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LD8MO014930 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LD8Oa082641; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JSDJE041982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:28:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-97.sonic.net [209.148.113.97]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JSBuk022094 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:28:12 -0700 Message-ID: <4319F94F.6070609@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:28:15 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Norris's books were all under heavy pirated/photocopy circulation in the SCA for many years. Norah Waugh's books "start" a bit past SCA period but were all originally published from the mid 1960s to 1970. Janet Arnold's _/Patterns of Fashion 1: Englishwomen's Dresses and Their Construction 1660–1860_ also "starts" past SCA period but was published in the early 1970s. Despite the "late" dates, all Waugh's books and the Arnold one I mentioned were popular with "serious" SCA costumers from fairly early on. //Karl Kohler's _A History of Costume_ (with patterns) was first published in the 1920s and was reprinted by Dover as early as 1963. Whatever you think of the "authenticity" of these books, their intention is more "serious" than a brochure on constructing a beginning T-tunic just to look acceptable at events. I've never been a member of the SCA, but I've known quite a lot of them. Renaissance Faires, BTW, are another outgrowth of the "hippie" movement. //Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com / > > > As far as I know, there were not any "texts available for more > accurate patterns" despite what the writer had said -- at least, not > by our 21st century standards -- but if some of you who were doing > historical sewing in the 60s knew of any, please do post! > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:13:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LDlRW023464 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:13:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LDJAg014982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LDJ76082749; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JwLPr053592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:58:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-95.sonic.net [209.148.114.95]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JwECs027843 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:58:14 -0700 Message-ID: <431A005A.9050205@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 12:58:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My grandmother used to make hippie crocheted vests and such for my cousin Donna (who is some years older than I am). Donna was obsessed with clothes, but never sewed (her mother made all her enormous wardrobe) or crocheted (my grandmother did that). Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >I reply: >Huh. My first encounters with fiber-arts came with my >grandmother (now 79); I doubt she'd enjoy being called >a hippie (but i won't tell) ;-) > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:13:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LDljR023465 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:13:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LDNhp014999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LDNLV082791; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83K9vf0057831 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:09:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kristalori@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so639661wri for ; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:09:52 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=TZn2xmSZI2umiR+R/u8aCoTFV4JYANsBLTDUYD1hGN0aQVuj+5mZyrZZqXOiVwzrJuAahFIBF6m0eUYxAMcnqegYCSPA05IQSV9NxCyJw6M1+v3nfprHC5ryKhpbdO8trYPWL29tnMtkzOQ7XebHaw+1CakCTdGeCfldUGfgLWk= Received: by 10.54.34.20 with SMTP id h20mr367383wrh; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.105.6 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7164eae905090313094c7d1972@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:09:52 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A00A9.5040806@msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <431A00A9.5040806@msn.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j83LDljR023465 Status: RO Read To Wear. I make a lot of my own clothes. In fact I'm getting to make a wiggle dress. A lot of people in the goth and FrUiTs movement do their own clothes. DIY clothing is really making a heavy duty stand. I just wrote a really short blurb on it for my own zine I produce. Bice On 9/3/05, WickedFrau wrote: > > I missed the first post. What is RTW??? > > I used to never buy any clothing because I would always think..."I can > make that." But of course I rarely got around to it. Then another > sewing friend of mine set me straight. "Never make anything you can > buy-only make those things that you can't buy." Thats has been my new > motto for several years now, and has suited me well since I spend most > of my sewing time doing historic stuff! > > You were lucky that you learned how to fit and sew. Most folks I know > now only learned how to sew. If they didn't have a pattern for it, > forget it...and I was never taught how to adjust a pattern as a younster > sewing. I picked all that up much later. > > Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:13:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LDl0Q023466 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:13:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LDEA1014961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LDDvG082693; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83JcKLp045920 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:38:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EBdqF2BhC-0006U7; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:38:19 -0400 Message-ID: <004701c5b0bf$099048a0$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <009001c5b047$1d30ef40$6800a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] colleges and hurricane relief Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:38:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol, I am compiling a listing of college with theater and fashion related that are accepting students. I am looking for the schools to fill in specific information that a student would need to know. I will be posting the listing to my site early in the week. I am asking each school listing to have a contact person who can co-ordinate the transfer. The last thing these students need is to play telephone tag and go through miles of red tape. If you all sincerely want to help with this project, please contact me off-list. The transferring students will need people to pick them up at airports, help find houses, etc. We hope to be co-coordinating with the Red Cross. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:13:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LDng0023473 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:13:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LDWtk015032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LDVFg082877; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LAREN081356 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:10:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83LAMmU013018 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:22 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LACFf083218 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:10:26 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903134406.0253f5e8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:45:58 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eras and places (was hippies) In-Reply-To: References: <4319C1D5.4080104@optonline.net> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <001201c5afed$b4b1d370$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <002501c5b01c$a8879d80$6800a8c0@Penny> <4.3.1.2.20050902190715.03dd2cf8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050902203903.0264bdb0@mail.frys.com> <4319C1D5.4080104@optonline.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Perhaps we have Scarlett O'Hara to thank for the hoopskirts, > especially the barer evening dress worn at the picnic. :-) If you mean that ruffly short-sleeved white dress, I found the historical image they must have taken that costume from. It was one of the hardest things I ever did, shifting gears in my head to accept that one as actually period. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:13:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LDomf023477 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:13:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LDRPZ015015 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LDRYq082830; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83KUO0w066229 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:30:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13042 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:52:20 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:52:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes In-Reply-To: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sat, 3 Sep 2005, Kathryn Parke wrote: > Could someone walk me through the process of belting a houppelande > just below the bustline? How did they keep the belts there, without > having it "walk" itself down to the natural waistline? In addition to the good advice already given, I've found it's essential to be wearing an underdress that provides the right lift to the bust (meaning high, contained, and stable). That way you don't have the pressure from the bust pressing down on the belt, and you don't get any unattractive flop of the bust over the belt. The belt's job is not to raise the bust, but simply to contain the folds of the houppelande. Alas, I've seen many people who think that if the houppelande covers everything, they can get away without the underdress. It's not a pretty sight. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:18:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LIYI5023516 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LID1d015264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LICe3084556; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:18:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LI9Bv084533 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83LIJxH017712 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:18:19 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LI3r0250982 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:18:08 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903141049.0253fb40@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:16:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] Woven a disposition? In-Reply-To: <001e01c5b0c6$e9e55060$0600a8c0@genteelarts> References: <431A014A.3010109@msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Fabrics that are woven or printed "a disposition" are designed for a >particular use or particular area in a garment, frequently along one edge of >a flounce. (Our modern border prints are a distant cousin.) They were >particularly popular during the mid-late 1850s, when the technology was at >its peak. The modern equivalent of this is the "border print", printed with a design along one edge, for use in making skirts or curtains. Then there are printed lengths of fabric intended for making things like vests or aprons, where all the pieces come printed on the fabric ready to cut out and sew. Some Daisy Kingdom fabric is printed in such a way that you can make a cute little girl's dress with different parts of the printed design in different places. And some saree fabric comes with an extra piece at one end, woven or printed to match, intended for making a choli (under-blouse). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:21:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LLHwj023528 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LL1aH015406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:21:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LL0Xh085684; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:21:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LKvdw085668 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:20:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83LL7xH020283 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:21:07 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LKuBX060184 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:20:57 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903141851.0265de20@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:20:50 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A1097.3040101@lavoltapress.com> References: <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >BUT, those are all thin cotton skirts . . . and I'm looking for velvet for >fall/winter. Does it make sense to layer one of these over what would amount to a petticoat underneath? The underskirt would keep you warm and the over skirt would look nice for both of them. I'm not usually a skirt-wearer, so I don't know. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:24:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LOref023569 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LNPUG015680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:23:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LNO7p086627; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts22.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.184]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LNIWm086595 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:23:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from janetpaine@sympatico.ca) Received: from jptwr001 ([65.95.122.79]) by tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050903212317.USLZ21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@jptwr001> for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:23:17 -0400 Message-ID: <004601c5b0cd$b36a9ca0$0400a8c0@jptwr001> From: "Janet Paine" To: References: <200509031651.j83GpdwV074385@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:23:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 564 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 12:51 PM Subject: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 564 > Send h-costume mailing list submissions to > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > h-costume-request@mail.indra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Today's Topics: > > 1. Bjarne (Lalah) > 2. Eras and places (was hippies) (Carol Kocian) > 3. Re: Bjarne (Chris) > 4. Re: Eras and places (was hippies) (J Schueller) > 5. RE: Eras and places (was hippies) (Carolann Schmitt) > 6. Re: Eras and places (was hippies) (Carol Kocian) > 7. regional crinoline fashions (Carolann Schmitt) > 8. Re: collages and hurricane relief (Althea Turner) > 9. Re: collages and hurricane relief (Susan B. Farmer) > 10. Re: Bjarne (ruthanneb@mindspring.com) > 11. Re: Bjarne (Susan B. Farmer) > 12. Re: regional crinoline fashions (Carol Kocian) > 13. Re: fiber arts and making vs buying clothes (Lavolta Press) > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:33:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LXUNU023652 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:33:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LX0oD016272 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LWxiE090190; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:32:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LWuSO090166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:32:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-234.sonic.net [209.148.113.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LWsZm001925 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:32:55 -0700 Message-ID: <431A168B.7@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:32:59 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Ren. Faires started in the early 1960s, and their founder coined the > term "living history". Wasn't there some early connection with the SCA? > >> Still, there was a lot of DIY, which I don't think I'm seeing >> currently as a mainstream movement. > > > "Wearable art", while not being exactly mainstream is at least > common. Places like Michael's craft stores carry supplies for making > wearable art, and a few kits for the same. > > But what do you call "wearable art"? I'd say it's something more avant-garde, or arty, than a nice but mainstream hand-knitted sweater. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:33:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LXuuK023656 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:33:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LXdHx016328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:33:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LXcnE090431; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:33:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LXZLp090384 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:33:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07C13B5FE for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:33:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <431A16CC.2060605@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:34:04 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> <431A1097.3040101@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431A1097.3040101@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://snipurl.com/hf4r $8. You couldn't buy the fabric for that little, never mind the work involved. http://snipurl.com/hf4t $24. Still a steal. Dawn Lavolta Press wrote: > > BUT, those are all thin cotton skirts . . . and I'm looking for velvet > for fall/winter. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Dawn wrote: > >> Lavolta Press wrote: >> >>> I'm wondering, though, if anyone on h-costume is making RTW clothes >>> for the boho market, perhaps selling on eBay? I'd think tiered >>> crushed velvet gypsy skirts and tunics with bell sleeves might sell >>> well this fall and winter. >> >> >> >> >> I can't compete with China, unfortunately. The RTW being imported is >> selling for less than my cost of materials. >> _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:35:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LZi8G023670 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:35:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LZUSN016620 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:35:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LZTvR091289; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:35:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LZQf0091261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:35:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-234.sonic.net [209.148.113.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LZOpY012798 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:35:25 -0700 Message-ID: <431A1721.7070802@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:35:29 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> <4.3.1.2.20050903141851.0265de20@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903141851.0265de20@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been thinking about layering the cotton ones, yes. Although, as you guessed, I live in northern CA--San Francisco. I believe it's been established that it was not Mark Twain who said that "the coldest winter he ever spent was a summer in San Francisco," _somebody_ clearly did. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >> BUT, those are all thin cotton skirts . . . and I'm looking for >> velvet for fall/winter. > > > Does it make sense to layer one of these over what would amount to a > petticoat underneath? The underskirt would keep you warm and the over > skirt would look nice for both of them. I'm not usually a > skirt-wearer, so I don't know. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:39:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LdJ7L023698 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:39:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Lcvsc016881 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:38:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Lct1D092626; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LcqtJ092592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:38:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j83LXejf030861 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:33:40 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <431A17E7.6070109@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:38:47 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <4319F94F.6070609@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4319F94F.6070609@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > Whatever you think of the "authenticity" of these books, their intention > is more "serious" than a brochure on constructing a beginning T-tunic > just to look acceptable at events. Right you are. Thank you! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:40:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Le3cI023711 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:40:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LdiJ0016991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LdiNX092972; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Ldf2O092908 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kristalori@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i3so660593wra for ; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=rITdMsv/J220Vb24yF/Gig6U7bIERzF6B93bJpYDsBI1c3lxRPWZqoPlg347Z6It+M4UVpfPV7Qng18CbK7cm1tZoCMOL9sKai5oC6C5noH9UKAS5w0vBwi+gBd6ZIbjPri3tCfj+wcj89WEmBTQJTZ5sEZ309HpCbdkd42Lg5w= Received: by 10.54.21.70 with SMTP id 70mr3343101wru; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.105.6 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:39:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7164eae905090314393ba4211c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:39:36 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A168B.7@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <431A168B.7@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j83Le3cI023711 Status: RO I would agree. Define wearable art. The DIY movement is VERY strong and VERY mainstream. In particular among teenage girls. Just take a look at Etsy and you'll see the demographics. http://www.etsy.com/ The most popular thing to make right now in the "reconstruct" part of DIY is t-shirts recounstructed to look like corsets. Some are really nice. B. > > "Wearable art", while not being exactly mainstream is at least > > common. Places like Michael's craft stores carry supplies for making > > wearable art, and a few kits for the same. > > > > > But what do you call "wearable art"? I'd say it's something more > avant-garde, or arty, than a nice but mainstream hand-knitted sweater. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:46:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LkR6n023763 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:46:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Lk3Xl017339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LjxTd095359; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:45:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LjrvV095332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:45:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-113.sonic.net [209.148.114.113]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Ljqf2014929 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:45:52 -0700 Message-ID: <431A1994.4070103@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 14:45:56 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4319D497.7020806@lavoltapress.com> <4319E485.5020401@lavoltapress.com> <431A0E47.1040300@reddawn.net> <431A1097.3040101@lavoltapress.com> <431A16CC.2060605@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <431A16CC.2060605@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you see any velvet gypsy skirts (unworn, new) that are earthtones rather than jewel tones, lemme know. I agree about the price competition, but if it were something of higher quality (cotton velvet instead of rayon, or rayon/silk devore velvet), or different (interesting design and/or trimming), I personally would pay more. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Dawn wrote: > http://snipurl.com/hf4r > $8. You couldn't buy the fabric for that little, never mind the work > involved. > > http://snipurl.com/hf4t > $24. Still a steal. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:51:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LpBgP023805 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:51:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LoseU017773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:50:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Los39097550; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:50:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LoooL097467 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:50:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id 6.1a2.3b294b02 (57317) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:50:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1a2.3b294b02.304b74b1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:50:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bjarne To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While I know we were glad to get updates on people personally known on the Gulf Coast, I think this exchange just proves that politics doesn't belong on this list. We went through this before, and it got kind of nasty. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 17:57:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83LvFOP023839 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:57:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83LutLw018244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:56:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Lutl3000169; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:56:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83LupBi000102 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id 6.1f7.11501a10 (57317) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:56:41 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <1f7.11501a10.304b7619@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:56:41 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] regional crinoline fashions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/3/2005 2:15:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cschmitt@genteelarts.com writes: I'm imagining a "what city is this" sort of thing based on the historic costume icons. One of my most vivid memories of Mobile, Alabama, is the Azalea Trail Maids, who wore "ante-bellum" gone wild--Big hoop-skirted dresses with rows of tiny ruffles on the skirt, pantalets, big hats, parasols, and mitts, all in a matching color, like peach, lime green, or turquoise. This was back in the early 1980s--don't know if they still dress that way. Even then, I think we all knew better. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 18:07:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83M7fue023914 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83M7Mmt018957 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:07:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83M7JNV003893; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:07:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83M7EWX003866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:07:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-113.sonic.net [209.148.114.113]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83M7CZa007060 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:07:13 -0700 Message-ID: <431A1E94.7080203@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:07:16 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <431A168B.7@lavoltapress.com> <7164eae905090314393ba4211c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7164eae905090314393ba4211c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's pretty easy to put lace-up trimming down the front of a tank top. BTW, that was a "hippie" style too. It's certainly heavily done in ready-to-wear for the American "junior" market. In shopping malls and online catalogs, I've seen a lot of ready-to-wear "decorated" T shirts and tank tops. They're often quite charming. I would guess Goths have to make most of their Goth clothes, although I've seen Goth clothing for sale on the net. In fact I bought some skirts that I found out are by a Goth ready-to-wear manufacturer, at www.artfulwears.com. Something else about "wearable art"--to my mind it has a kind of "wild and wooly" aspect. It's not a well-made but conservative hand-knitted sweater. I love hand-knitted sweaters, but I don't think they're all wearable art. It's not a commercial T-shirt with some lace trim and/or appliques sewn on. Those can be very cute, but I don't think they're wearable art either. It's also not ticky-tacky-craftsy, kits-and-kitsch. Wearable art may or may not be related to current fashion, but it's experimental, and "different." That's what makes it art. I agree that sewing an embroidered patch on your blue jeans, as many people did in the late 60s and early 70s, is not wearable art either. But some people went further, and were more "arty." I should add that the modern vintage clothing market, or rather the modern perception of it, also dates from the "hippie" movement. To the generation before that, buying used clothing was something you avoided if possible, for its connotations of not being able to afford new, and even catching parasites or diseases from the previous owner. The "hippie" movement siezed on vintage clothing ("reconstructed" or not) as a way to both find different styles and to benefit the environment by recycling. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Jacqueline Johnson wrote: >I would agree. Define wearable art. The DIY movement is VERY strong and VERY >mainstream. In particular among teenage girls. Just take a look at Etsy and >you'll see the demographics. >http://www.etsy.com/ >The most popular thing to make right now in the "reconstruct" part of DIY is >t-shirts recounstructed to look like corsets. Some are really nice. > >B. > > > > >>>"Wearable art", while not being exactly mainstream is at least >>>common. Places like Michael's craft stores carry supplies for making >>>wearable art, and a few kits for the same. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>But what do you call "wearable art"? I'd say it's something more >>avant-garde, or arty, than a nice but mainstream hand-knitted sweater. >> >>Fran >>Lavolta Press >>http://www.lavoltapress.com >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>h-costume mailing list >>h-costume@mail.indra.com >>http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 18:23:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83MNDSY024049 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:23:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83MMp93019817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:22:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83MMo00009672; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:22:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83MMlbt009625 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:22:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kristalori@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i12so860220wra for ; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:22:42 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=KIVl9Qq7L3TNWqrnNAD/OFBmKf46SI2U+jx0dYbRIUL4VFGE0c0tHNQk6SLQpGxKLE2sji/CKXPbVdz23QYWw7o2rrA0xMYl5wIl9UiEeZuMqhDiE752qxYfX7IkW8Hlh1Oi7lpzhTy1VZ8lejqg2pnE5mpRlroW0jjev8saNBA= Received: by 10.54.2.74 with SMTP id 74mr2370401wrb; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.105.6 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7164eae905090315223bc1cc44@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:22:42 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A1E94.7080203@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <431A168B.7@lavoltapress.com> <7164eae905090314393ba4211c@mail.gmail.com> <431A1E94.7080203@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j83MNDSY024049 Status: RO I'm unsure if you've seen the corset t-shirts but what they are is essentially the body of the t-shirt intact with pieces of fabric added either on the front or back with grommets in. Then you lace just like a corset. Some are really wild others are the basic style. Also the old "add a skirt to the bottom of a t-shirt" is still standard. Heck I was doing that in HS (I was born in 72 if it says much) . Depending on what facet of goth you are doing you have a few great choices for clothing. If you do LBG or Lolita Rose and Thorn is amazing. http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/roseandthorn/ If you like cyber goth Lip Service has some nice pieces although I'm not real keen on the method of making them or their lastability. The Gothic Lolita Bible is a must for anyone who studies modern costume or is in the Lolita or FrUiTs movement of clothing. Blue Period hosts scans of the book: http://www.blue-period.fsnet.co.uk/egl.html Goth Fashion Info gives simple circle skirt instruction: http://gothfashion.info/circlepixie.html I like Morbid Outlook's explanation of Japanese Lolita: http://www.morbidoutlook.com/fashion/articles/2002_07_gothiclolita.html Metamorphose Temps des Filles sells great clothes for those into GL: http://www.metamorphose.gr.jp/english/index.html I have more links of course. If anyone wants them just ask. To my mind if you've made it chances are its wearable art. Its handmade and its OOAK. You aren't going to run into Hot Topic or Kmart and grab it off the rack. B~ On 9/3/05, Lavolta Press wrote: > > It's pretty easy to put lace-up trimming down the front of a tank top. > BTW, that was a "hippie" style too. It's certainly heavily done in > ready-to-wear for the American "junior" market. In shopping malls and > online catalogs, I've seen a lot of ready-to-wear "decorated" T shirts > and tank tops. They're often quite charming. > > I would guess Goths have to make most of their Goth clothes, although > I've seen Goth clothing for sale on the net. In fact I bought some > skirts that I found out are by a Goth ready-to-wear manufacturer, at > www.artfulwears.com . > > Something else about "wearable art"--to my mind it has a kind of "wild > and wooly" aspect. It's not a well-made but conservative hand-knitted > sweater. I love hand-knitted sweaters, but I don't think they're all > wearable art. It's not a commercial T-shirt with some lace trim and/or > appliques sewn on. Those can be very cute, but I don't think they're > wearable art either. It's also not ticky-tacky-craftsy, kits-and-kitsch. > > Wearable art may or may not be related to current fashion, but it's > experimental, and "different." That's what makes it art. > > I agree that sewing an embroidered patch on your blue jeans, as many > people did in the late 60s and early 70s, is not wearable art either. > But some people went further, and were more "arty." > > I should add that the modern vintage clothing market, or rather the > modern perception of it, also dates from the "hippie" movement. To the > generation before that, buying used clothing was something you avoided > if possible, for its connotations of not being able to afford new, and > even catching parasites or diseases from the previous owner. The > "hippie" movement siezed on vintage clothing ("reconstructed" or not) as > a way to both find different styles and to benefit the environment by > recycling. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 18:34:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83MYpjr024128 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:34:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83MYHKZ020455 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:34:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83MYErr014144; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83MY6Lb014099 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:34:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83MY1mU015577 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:34:01 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83MY1c6031632 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:34:02 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:31:15 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A168B.7@lavoltapress.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Ren. Faires started in the early 1960s, and their founder coined the term >>"living history". > >Wasn't there some early connection with the SCA? Not really. The same kind of people joined each one, but there wasn't as much crossover as you might think. There's still some awkwardness to this day, because of different goals for the two different groups. "Wearable art", while not being exactly mainstream is at least common. Places like Michael's craft stores carry supplies for making wearable art, and a few kits for the same. >But what do you call "wearable art"? I'd say it's something more >avant-garde, or arty, than a nice but mainstream hand-knitted sweater. What I call wearable art and what Michael's craft stores call wearable art are rather different. They call things like craft-decorated t-shirts by that name, when they're selling supplies for making same. I have a little more highbrow definition, and would go with the more avant guarde and arty look. Upscale art and wine festivals have more what I would call wearable art. I also call it fiber art, which the craft stores pretty much don't. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 19:25:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83NPDkG024572 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:25:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83NOre8023619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:24:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NOoFN034045; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:24:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NOleH034016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:24:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NOj18001081 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:24:46 -0700 Message-ID: <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:24:50 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd agree with your definition, except that I associate the term "fiber art" with textile arts other than sewing. Whereas, to me "wearable art" covers sewing, weaving, spinning, knitting, crochet, embroidery, the whole spectrum. Oh, except a hanging or sculpture is fiber art, but not wearable. As for Goths, who I supect may be a rather large DIY crowd, I've never been tempted to become one because, as far as I can tell from the historic costumers I know who are also Goths, they hang out in clubs and listen to modern music. I can't stand modern music. Also, I look awful in black. But some of the ideas on the net I've seen are really creative. The Gothic Lolitas seem far too sweet and innocent to be real Goths though. While, as far as I know, none of my passing Goth acquaintances actually drink blood, they seem pretty sophisticated. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress > What I call wearable art and what Michael's craft stores call wearable > art are rather different. They call things like craft-decorated > t-shirts by that name, when they're selling supplies for making same. > I have a little more highbrow definition, and would go with the more > avant guarde and arty look. Upscale art and wine festivals have more > what I would call wearable art. I also call it fiber art, which the > craft stores pretty much don't. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 19:36:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Na0gY024659 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:36:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83NZMpF024354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NZKXE037815; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:35:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NZJJT037784 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:35:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kristalori@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so650860wri for ; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:35:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ld5a+9/PrZPS/oh8lfceGt4HGz01DPjrpLdJnLuY5qRqUGdZwe8aVR5ohrE+DUiGjkwGFKX/MzDEAMuU5HYIy23dC8Wxon1/Jqh1el4UpuPonJqeirEeWeHCYHk5JYE9SEvP9Ki0PdjPeMRNwhuhNzKOiIkES+cNDMfWzBMFrNk= Received: by 10.54.3.57 with SMTP id 57mr3227823wrc; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.105.6 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:35:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7164eae9050903163549d7f108@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:35:14 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j83Na0gY024659 Status: RO I'm guessing you've never encountered the "perky goth" subset of goth then. A google search should give you more than a few areas to look. As for the Lolita's looking innocent and sweet that's the whole idea. Sweet evil and innocent *looking*. Then you have the harajuku girls of Gwen Stefani fame. Yet another division in the Goth clothing movement. gothicauctions.comwill show a number of DIYers who sell to others. I see a lot of square dance dresses adapted to Lolita (that's what I use for my clothes anyhow) and bustle skirts in any fabric is popular. Past Patterns #904 the polonaise dress is HUGE for Goth DIYers. I've made one version in PVC in fact. Right now I'm working on a black lolita nun dress. B On 9/3/05, Lavolta Press wrote: > > > As for Goths, who I supect may be a rather large DIY crowd, I've never > been tempted to become one because, as far as I can tell from the > historic costumers I know who are also Goths, they hang out in clubs and > listen to modern music. I can't stand modern music. Also, I look awful > in black. But some of the ideas on the net I've seen are really > creative. The Gothic Lolitas seem far too sweet and innocent to be real > Goths though. While, as far as I know, none of my passing Goth > acquaintances actually drink blood, they seem pretty sophisticated. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 19:37:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83NbMrm024674 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:37:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83NaqOf024427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:36:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Naq5U038380; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:36:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j83NamfM038353 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:36:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 14371 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2005 23:36:02 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:36:02 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1677.67.188.164.116.1125790608.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > http://www.hermitagemuseum.org > > click on English > go to quick search and type in A.Alessandro, click on go > scroll down to the paintings, click on "next 5-16 matches" > click on "next 17 - 28 matches". > scroll down to #25 > You probably have seen this. Someone has it on their website. > Eleanor has a high collared cream dress with a light teal sleeveless > overdress that has red and gold embroidery on it. > I like this site as you can zoom in much better. Her dress is pleated > w/red > and green braid holding it in place w/matching pleated sleeves. Wonderful > details. I agree that the portrait is beautiful but I don't think it is Eleonora of Toledo. Firstly it doesn't really look like her and secondly, the new book that I have entitled "Moda a Firenze 1540-1580: Lo stile di Eleonora di Toledo e la sua influenza" has this portrait listed as "Portrait of a Woman" by Alessandro Allori 1580-1590. In a book about Eleonora of Toledo, I would think that if the portrait were really of her, this book would say so. It is a lovely portait, though. And there are many other portraits that I hadn't seen before that are in the book I mention above. It is very much worth the $100 for anyone who is passionate about Italian Renn clothing! Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 19:44:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83NifPt024737 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:44:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83NiMS8024946 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:44:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NiLGl040954; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:44:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Ni7xj040876 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:44:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j83NiGxH023186 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:44:16 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Ni0H2019144 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:44:05 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:43:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I'd agree with your definition, except that I associate the term "fiber >art" with textile arts other than sewing. I call it art using fiber as the medium, wearable or not. This includes the hanging textile sculptures, wall pieces, and some garments. >Whereas, to me "wearable art" covers sewing, weaving, spinning, knitting, >crochet, embroidery, the whole spectrum. Fiber art with armholes ;) BTW, some jewelry is like wearable sculpture, and is made of metal, stone, etc. I would call that wearable art too. Then there are cross-over folks like Arlene Fisch who, in the 1970s, was making knitted silver wire jewelry. And the chain-mail-bikini crowd - wearable, but is it art? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 19:46:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83Nkkho024758 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:46:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83NkNNE025058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:46:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NkMel041736; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NkIHc041700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:46:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j83NkGIf004213 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:46:17 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:55:08 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <1677.67.188.164.116.1125790608.squirrel@www.inreach.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It does look very different from the portraits that we are used to from Bronzino. The hairstyle is so tight to the head. I just put it down to the difference in artist's eyes. Also, I thought that the eyes of the girl did look much like those I'm familiar with. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of this book. It's on order and I'm waiting for them to send me the receipt to tell me how much to pay. By the way - how did you pay for your copy or did you get it in Italy? I'm going to England in two weeks and expect to get the Euro-check there. Wanda > > I agree that the portrait is beautiful but I don't think it is Eleonora of > Toledo. > > Firstly it doesn't really look like her and secondly, the new book that I > have entitled "Moda a Firenze 1540-1580: Lo stile di Eleonora di Toledo e > la sua influenza" has this portrait listed as "Portrait of a Woman" by > Alessandro Allori 1580-1590. In a book about Eleonora of Toledo, I would > think that if the portrait were really of her, this book would say so. It > is a lovely portait, though. > > And there are many other portraits that I hadn't seen before that are in > the book I mention above. It is very much worth the $100 for anyone who > is passionate about Italian Renn clothing! > > Diana > > www.RenaissanceFabrics.net > "Everything for the Costumer" > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 19:57:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83NvRXN024885 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:57:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83Nv6pX025641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:57:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Nv5E5045426; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:57:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83Nv13L045402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NuxYN023812 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:57:00 -0700 Message-ID: <431A384F.3090204@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:57:03 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > BTW, some jewelry is like wearable sculpture, and is made of metal, > stone, etc. True, and there is also fiber jewelry. > I would call that wearable art too. Then there are cross-over folks > like Arlene Fisch who, in the 1970s, was making knitted silver wire > jewelry. And the chain-mail-bikini crowd - wearable, but is it art? > > Dunno. There's a sense in which, the first time someone makes it, it's art; but if a bunch of other people make pretty much the same thing, is it art anymore? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 19:57:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j83NveWZ024888 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j83NvOfV025663 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:57:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NvOb0045534; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:57:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j83NvLFm045482 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:57:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B425D21020E for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 21997-01-15 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 34DB22101A7 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:57:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009001c5b0e3$2fa42b00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:57:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 4:28 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo > Pardon me if this looks patronizing. It isn't. I am putting these down as > I > try it out, hoping it works. I should have done it this way in the first > place instead of plastering that ridiculous URL in my message (it was > late - > hangs head) > > Go to http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/index.html > > go to Digital Collection > http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin/db2www/browse.mac/category?selLang=E > nglish > > Choose Paintings beside the search box. Then click Browse by Artist. Go > down the list until you see Allori, Allesandro. There are two pictures > and > Eleonora is the lady in peacock blue with her hair very close to her head. > You can put in Allori in the Quick search box but that brings up a number > of > works in other media that aren't necessarily relevant.>> I found it easily by searching for "Eleanor". Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 20:11:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j840BFIe024989 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:11:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j840AmGC026384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:10:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840Aj4e050396; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:10:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840AfIq050366 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:10:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0514020E for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:10:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 32C6B150BE for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:10:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:10:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <4319F94F.6070609@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I missed the first part of this thread but this caught my eye. In saying "Renaissance Faires, BTW, are another outgrowth of the "hippie" movement. Fran" I come to understand that you may be saying that SCA came out of the "hippie" movement. If I am understanding correctly, I would like to say that SCA was not an outgrowth of the hippie movement, it grew from a history club at Berkley. I will say that the clothing in the beginning and even today is a blend of historic and current style. The current style usually comes from those who are just getting started or couldn't care less about costuming and cared more of whatever arts or sciences they be interested in. In early SCA costuming information, books, pictures were few and far between. I remember when I joined in `81 a woman who had no costuming experience was telling me that this http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/wardrobe/VENETIANLADYDurer1495.jpg was a fantasy dress. A Victorian drawing of what was thought to have been worn. Oh yeah, and I was told that pink wasn't period.:P De my .2 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 20:12:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j840CwwN025012 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:12:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j840CdeI026545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840Cd58051126; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840CZd1051100 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:12:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.147]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j840CjxH000766 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:12:45 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j840CXRS348112 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:12:34 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903170737.02657260@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:12:09 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431A384F.3090204@lavoltapress.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I would call that wearable art too. Then there are cross-over folks >> like Arlene Fisch who, in the 1970s, was making knitted silver wire >> jewelry. And the chain-mail-bikini crowd - wearable, but is it art? >Dunno. There's a sense in which, the first time someone makes it, it's >art; but if a bunch of other people make pretty much the same thing, is it >art anymore? Good question. This brings to mind the question of whether or not a recreation of, say, a Worth gown is art. Certainly it was art the first time, but is what we're doing also art? And are we in the wrong century to be calling our work art if we're creating a gown of a new design in a decades-old, or centuries-old, style? Interesting point you brought up. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 20:26:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j840Qhdn025132 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:26:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j840QQo9028028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:26:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840QOSH056896; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:26:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840QLDj056878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:26:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840QJYR028812 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:26:20 -0700 Message-ID: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:26:24 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >I come to understand that you may be saying that SCA came out of the >"hippie" movement. If I am understanding correctly, I would like to say that >SCA was not an outgrowth of the hippie movement, it grew from a history club >at Berkley. > > I thought the fantasy author Marion Zimmer Bradley was supposed to have started it. Fran > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 20:34:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j840Y0lW025183 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:34:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j840Xdsx028476 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:33:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840XbaO059660; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:33:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.198.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840XYCU059611 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:33:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from justinemagill@comcast.net) Received: from Justine (c-24-9-159-193.hsd1.co.comcast.net[24.9.159.193]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005090400332801400fam9ne>; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:33:28 +0000 From: "Justine Magill" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:33:28 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The West Kingdom has a history page up. This link will take you to the origins of the SCA. http://history.westkingdom.org/Year0/index.htm There are numerous photos and such of the early days of the SCA available in some of the sections for looking at. I browse this page every once in a while. Jenne I thought the fantasy author Marion Zimmer Bradley was supposed to have started it. Fran > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 20:41:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j840f9vv025230 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:41:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j840e5do029189 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:40:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840e4EU062333; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:40:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840dvgs062263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:40:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j840Yljf002084 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:34:47 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <431A425C.6020308@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:39:56 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I thought the fantasy author Marion Zimmer Bradley was supposed to have > started it. She was part of it. The first SCA event was a goodbye party for someone going off to the Peace Corps(?), in Diana Listmaker's (Paxson, I think) back yard. A few months later MZB came up with the name when asked for a name to put down on the park reservation form. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 20:46:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j840k6ca025253 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j840jmpj029562 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:45:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840jmYh064452; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:45:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840ji5N064427 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:45:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j840jgEc031883 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 17:45:43 -0700 Message-ID: <431A43BB.6070908@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:45:47 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903170737.02657260@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903170737.02657260@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1060/Sat Sep 3 08:44:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Good question. This brings to mind the question of whether or not a > recreation of, say, a Worth gown is art. Certainly it was art the > first time, but is what we're doing also art? I'm not sure it was even art the first time. Worth actually had a fairly large concern and churned out numbers of very similar garments. I don't see that couture is necessarily art. > And are we in the wrong century to be calling our work art if we're > creating a gown of a new design in a decades-old, or centuries-old, > style? Interesting point you brought up. > > If it's an attempt at an exact reproduction, I think not. It may be beautiful, it may be well made, but that doesn't make it art. It's really an effort not to be original. When I was studying weaving and other texile arts (in parallel with studying clothing design in another department of the same university, and history in yet another department), the other students sneered at anything they called "yardage." Making garments was not hip. I was at variance with the general opinion because I've always wanted everything I made to be useful. For example, my crochet class was taught by a visiting instructor, a fiber artist well known at the time. We were all encouraged to attend an exhibit of her work. I went, and was puzzled by her current phase, which consisted of enormous, much larger than life kimonos with crocheted pictures. They were beautiful, but there was quite enough room on an ordinary-sized kimono for the same pictures at smaller scale. But, she said, if they were wearable they wouldn't really be art. Huh? There was one student who presented, for a weaving class critique, a beautiful curtain, or as she called it a window hanging, in leno weave (which some people call "lace weave" even though it is not technically lace). She said she planned to hang it in her living room window. She received a lot of praise, which emboldened her to say that she actually had three windows in her living room and already had her loom strung to make two more hangings. Immediately the praise turned to condemnation. "Oh, that would be _yardage_." I thought that was silly; if one piece is art is it really degraded by her making a mere two others? On the other hand, I have to say that if she'd churned them out by the hundreds I might stop calling it art. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 21:01:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84113wi025371 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:01:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8410GTs030472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:00:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8410EvB069911; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:00:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8410A6m069878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:00:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84109Zn002165 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:00:10 -0700 Message-ID: <431A471E.3020708@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 18:00:14 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> <431A425C.6020308@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <431A425C.6020308@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's a very counterculture idea for the mid 1960s. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Cynthia Virtue wrote: > >> I thought the fantasy author Marion Zimmer Bradley was supposed to >> have started it. > > > She was part of it. The first SCA event was a goodbye party for > someone going off to the Peace Corps(?), in Diana Listmaker's (Paxson, > I think) back yard. A few months later MZB came up with the name when > asked for a name to put down on the park reservation form. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 21:07:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8417DIb025412 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8416mX7030857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:06:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8416lHh072329; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:06:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.82]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8416hf8072270 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:06:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 60447 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2005 01:06:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=B62+nxo1qQBukmCfCvDQLc5JDz/R5Ui9SBxtBplBe6WF9GKDnIJYm4Pji0IMLjFC1SbzSNg1hYXfiLTTO4/H6mD50x/gJaBS3oUTBq/wJ2/ramlg9Qi5ue3e5D7KWPEdimrfbH/+jMQEwARrZ5M3YtxQLZctgAyxYc3nNVir244= ; Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.29 with login) by smtp104.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Sep 2005 01:06:37 -0000 Message-ID: <006101c5b0ec$efb84ad0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:06:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- >>I come to understand that you may be saying that SCA came out of the >>"hippie" movement. If I am understanding correctly, I would like to say >>that >>SCA was not an outgrowth of the hippie movement, it grew from a history >>club >>at Berkley. >> > I thought the fantasy author Marion Zimmer Bradley was supposed to have > started it. It's my understanding that a little of each of these last two are true. (As for the hippie connection, there's often an assumption that anyone at Berkley in the late 60s must have been a hippie, but that's not necessarily true. I suspect that hippie-ness, like most things, existed on a spectrum). As I understand it, there was a group of friends at Berkley. Some were into history, some into Tolkein, some into early music, and some into various combinations thereof. So you had that interesting mix of ideas right from the beginning. MZB was definitely part of the original group, but she didn't "start" it. I don't think any one person can claim credit. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 21:08:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84186gZ025425 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8417oVo030900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8417nFJ072703; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8417kDI072685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:07:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.50] (pool180-103.patriot.net [209.249.180.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8417gFr030011 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:07:44 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:07:07 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >And the chain-mail-bikini crowd - wearable, but is it art? I was an early adaptor - does mine get to be art? I think the idea of a chainmail bikini was around for a bit before somebody decided to try making one. So there's a crowd now? My invitation must have gotten lost. :-( A few years back, some historic site or organization was trying to put together a directory of people who would make historic clothes. I think it was for 18th century. Anyway, on the questionaire, one of the questions was "Do you design historic clothing?" In my opinion, it's already designed, just needs to be researched and put together with the appropriate accessories. But some people consider patternmaking to be designing. If I copy a pattern out of Janet Arnold ad adapt it to fit, some would say that's designing, but I think it's adaptation. The wearing of a costume, attitude, posture and staying in character, is a performance art in itself. Here is another thought - if the outfit is upper class, in beautiful silk with the perfect trimming, people will say "art". What about the perfect lower-class outfit, with coarse fabric and the wear that comes with actual use - is that as much "art" as the upper class dress? -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 21:15:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j841FC1o025460 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:15:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j841EtHn031367 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:14:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841EsUK075358; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:14:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao02.cox.net (eastrmmtao02.cox.net [68.230.240.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841Eoft075325 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:14:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyanne@quik.com) Received: from ANNESCOMPUTER ([70.186.193.191]) by eastrmmtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:14:45 -0400 From: "Anne Moeller" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:14:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcWwuhHcYP6Zrcg5Soy7LAifd5SEBQAM7G6w Message-Id: <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is the West Kingdom History website available for general viewing? Anyone have the address? Anne the method, the pictures I've seen from those times (mostly courtesy of the West Kingdom History Project website) are charming and medieval-looking. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 21:17:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j841HvxL025480 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j841HUci031515 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:17:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841HU8L076376; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:17:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from isis.ntw.net (IDENT:Jg1h186ESmX+Aw6bbx1Ywtz+MbZjm5dN@isis.ntw.net [199.165.233.10]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841HR7r076348 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:17:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sylvia@ntw.net) Received: from [206.124.5.148] (206-124-5-148.denver.dial.forethought.net [206.124.5.148]) by isis.ntw.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j841DsA18361 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:13:54 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <006101c5b0ec$efb84ad0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> References: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> <006101c5b0ec$efb84ad0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <84cfc5f55e30deee864f9b66213fc822@ntw.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sylvia Rognstad Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:17:27 -0600 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Sep 3, 2005, at 7:06 PM, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > > It's my understanding that a little of each of these last two are > true. (As for the hippie connection, there's often an assumption that > anyone at Berkley in the late 60s must have been a hippie, but that's > not necessarily true. I suspect that hippie-ness, like most things, > existed on a spectrum). > > As someone who lived in Berkeley and went to UC back in the late > sixties, I can attest to the fact that not everyone there was or > dressed like a hippie, but it was probably a much higher percentage of > the population than existed in the mainstream US. There certainly was > a spectrum. I liked to dress like a hippie back then, but I don't > think I was a true hippie, if there really was such an animal. I > lived pretty much on the fringes of both hippiedom and the radical > political movements that flourished in Berkeley. Never the less, I > think it was my impression at the time that much more of the US lived > and believed as we did in Berkeley, since I am still surprised to this > day, when I meet contemporaries of mine who grew up in other areas of > the country, such as the midwest, and were totally even unaware of > what was going on in places like the CA Bay Area. Sylrog _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 21:21:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j841Lb6x025500 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j841LKSh031695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:21:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841LJL1077769; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:21:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841LFT9077715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841LE4o021504 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:21:14 -0700 Message-ID: <431A4C0F.8070408@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 18:21:19 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> <006101c5b0ec$efb84ad0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> In-Reply-To: <006101c5b0ec$efb84ad0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Absolutely. But the San Franciso Bay Area really was different from much of the rest of the country. Many people considered to be "straight" there in the 1960s would have been considered hippies, and/or flaming political radicals, in much of the rest of the US. In much of the rest of the US, all you had to do to be considered a "hippie" was wear frayed bellbottom jeans in public, and/or be a male with long hair and/or a beard. Take my husband, who grew up in Berkeley and got his BA at UC Berkeley. He was a (punch) card-carrying nerd, computer geek, programmer-for-pay at 15 when hardly anyone was a programmer at that age (there were no personal computers). Being a nerd was not "cool." Nerds were always straight, pimply weedy guys facing what everyone else regarded as dismally dull futures at places like, horrors, IBM. Just the same, he did the things straight teenagers and young adults were doing in Berkeley, which included the usual clouds of smoke in public places, political demonstrations on campus, enduring pepper gassing of same, growing a beard, and so on. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > It's my understanding that a little of each of these last two are > true. (As for the hippie connection, there's often an assumption that > anyone at Berkley in the late 60s must have been a hippie, but that's > not necessarily true. I suspect that hippie-ness, like most things, > existed on a spectrum). > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 21:51:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j841p3qS025721 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j841oQ67033328 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:50:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j841oNkH088270; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:50:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j841oJO9088238 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:50:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 24859 invoked from network); 4 Sep 2005 01:49:27 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 18:49:27 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1718.67.188.164.116.1125798613.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: <1677.67.188.164.116.1125790608.squirrel@www.inreach.com> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > It does look very different from the portraits that we are used to from > Bronzino. The hairstyle is so tight to the head. I just put it down to > the > difference in artist's eyes. Also, I thought that the eyes of the girl > did > look much like those I'm familiar with. > > I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of this book. It's on order and > I'm > waiting for them to send me the receipt to tell me how much to pay. By > the > way - how did you pay for your copy or did you get it in Italy? I'm going > to England in two weeks and expect to get the Euro-check there. Wanda, I paid for it using a credit card when I ordered it through Abe Books. The cost was dependant on the exchange rate that day. But with shipping I paid about $100 for it. And it did come from Italy.... Hope that helps, Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 22:01:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8421uTN025801 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:01:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8421bXO034078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:01:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8421akm092336; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:01:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8421Wsp092303 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:01:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8421RmU027437 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:01:27 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8421OJx032175 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:01:28 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903185917.0253c548@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:00:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The wearing of a costume, attitude, posture and staying in character, is a >performance art in itself. I totally forgot about performance art. > Here is another thought - if the outfit is upper class, in beautiful > silk with the perfect trimming, people will say "art". What about the > perfect lower-class outfit, with coarse fabric and the wear that comes > with actual use - is that as much "art" as the upper class dress? If it's in an art museum then somebody must think it's art... CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 22:01:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8421vDM025804 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:01:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8421bv3034079 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:01:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8421ZGK092334; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:01:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8421WOZ092300 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:01:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8421QmU027433 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:01:27 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8421OJv032175 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:01:25 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050903185612.02536e38@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 18:57:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <006101c5b0ec$efb84ad0$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> References: <431A3F30.30906@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It's my understanding that a little of each of these last two are >true. (As for the hippie connection, there's often an assumption that >anyone at Berkley in the late 60s must have been a hippie, but that's not >necessarily true. I suspect that hippie-ness, like most things, existed >on a spectrum). There's a Daughters of the American Revolution chapter in Berkeley, so I'm assuming a spectrum ;) CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 22:26:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j842Qrie025980 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:26:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j842QWXN035868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:26:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j842QVvl001551; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:26:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j842QRoF001534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:26:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j842QPrh031623 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:26:26 -0700 Message-ID: <431A5B56.1070504@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:26:30 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like References: <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, I'd say pattern drafting, enlarging and altering a pattern to fit, and designing are three (actually four) different tasks. > > > In my opinion, it's already designed, just needs to be researched > and put together with the appropriate accessories. But some people > consider patternmaking to be designing. If I copy a pattern out of > Janet Arnold ad adapt it to fit, some would say that's designing, but > I think it's adaptation. > > The wearing of a costume, attitude, posture and staying in > character, is a performance art in itself. But a different issue from the costume itself In fact, the physical attitude/posture and "staying in character" by saying the right things, are different tasks. > > Here is another thought - if the outfit is upper class, in > beautiful silk with the perfect trimming, people will say "art". What > about the perfect lower-class outfit, with coarse fabric and the wear > that comes with actual use - is that as much "art" as the upper class > dress? > I'd say neither is necessarily art. One is fashionable upper-class dress, the other is lower-class dress. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 22:35:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j842Zsn9026036 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:35:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j842ZZGg036594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j842ZYbF005050; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:35:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j842ZVOB005032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:35:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-37.sonic.net [209.148.114.37]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j842ZUZh000676 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:35:31 -0700 Message-ID: <431A5D77.4010709@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:35:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like References: <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903163158.0328e3c8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903185917.0253c548@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050903185917.0253c548@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > If it's in an art museum then somebody must think it's art... > > I think clothes of the past are regarded even by art museums as cultural and historical artifacts (as well as, or instead of being art). They are not necessarily chosen by the same criteria as modern artifacts. Many art museums with any textile facilities would probably be delighted to accept any original medieval garment whatever. Most would not be delighted to accept just any modern garment. They might be delighted to accept a "beautiful" Victorian upper-class garment in excellent condition, but most would not be as happy to include a lovely, expensive modern upper-class garment of no historically important provenance. The scarcity of that type of item plays a part too. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 3 23:43:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j843hXlt026510 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 23:43:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j843h21U040448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:43:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j843guLF030275; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:42:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51315.mail.yahoo.com (web51315.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.125]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j843gspM030225 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:42:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 61719 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Sep 2005 03:42:49 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=osZXPoWLS8r50jgIe3QBfxWYBEl5ZNvPR0Rqd1cLMY41HJN1a1Vpp9Dym7XBCdCT96cXR/8zGDUKV/44VNl387dR7ugI0tVslavO06RYmJPJOZQJ+fAklBf9pXFeFdDnpiIDmi2JaUw9earqSIzw44BhrDG+vCggs8PyIrKFYzk= ; Message-ID: <20050904034249.61717.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51315.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:42:49 PDT Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:42:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 'Sideless cotehardie' comes from Milia Davenport's book. Noticed the error right before I bought the book, because it is still one of the few books with that many contemporary-to-the-style pictures available. And at least some of the early fifteenth century pictures are from re-drawings, but you have to be wide-awake to recognize the sources. Ann in CT --- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > > A last detail: the writer calls a sideless surcoat a > "cotehardie." > > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 02:09:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84692Nx027463 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 02:09:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8468ESQ047863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8468Baq080654; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:08:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84687NQ080615 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:08:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839A94065E for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 01:08:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D63BD3FF for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 01:08:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 01:08:21 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- >And the chain-mail-bikini crowd - wearable, but is it art? -Carol Comment: Sorry to bring up SCA again but this reminded me of SCA in the early eighties when from time to time a woman showed up in a chainmail bikini and called herself a barbarian. Most were late teens and a few older women. Once, one of the older women showed up to a winter event in `83(?) in a chainmail bikini. The hall was chilly but the men found it quite warm when she was around. To say the least the bikini was not lined, nor were the ends of the links welded, so you could tell she was quite perky and every once in a while snagged a hair or two or maybe three. Having learned from experience or other people's experiences these women started wearing the rabbit fur lined chainmail bikini. Then when colored wire became available you got artistic patterns with the chainmail bikini, sans the fur but lined. Outside of the SCA I saw two men wearing chainmail "loincloths" one was really in good shape, the other....well...needed more chainmail so that there was more to leave to the imagination. Both learned the hard way about unlined, unwelded ends of links. De Back to the regular schedule programs. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 02:33:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j846XJ6q027652 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 02:33:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j846Wu3k049547 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:32:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j846Wseu089448; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:32:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j846WoNY089407 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:32:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gcshc-h-costume@gmane.org) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EBo2X-0001B8-EP for h-costume@mail.indra.com; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 08:31:41 +0200 Received: from 66.7.170.6 ([66.7.170.6]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 08:31:41 +0200 Received: from eadmund42 by 66.7.170.6 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 08:31:41 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: h-costume@mail.indra.com From: Robert Uhl Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:30:30 -0600 Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.7.170.6 User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:iY80W79hUN3vgfNXh090dOOMIK4= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1061/Sat Sep 3 17:26:37 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Anne Moeller" writes: > > Is the West Kingdom History website available for general viewing? > Anyone have the address? Well, is a decent place to start... For those not keeping score, the SCA is possibly the longest-running costume party in history. What it lacks in history it makes it makes up in enthusiasm. And the mead is incredible:-) -- Robert Uhl In Africa, some of the native tribes have a custom of beating the ground with clubs and uttering spine-chilling cries. Anthropologists call this a form of primitive self-expression. In the West, we call it golf. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 06:51:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84Ap8no009734 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:51:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84AoWkw073692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 04:50:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84AoSsI080180; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 04:50:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84AoPcF080165 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 04:50:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EBs4u11WY-0000xP; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 06:50:24 -0400 Message-ID: <019601c5b13e$74859f50$6800a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <11834440.1125748493563.JavaMail.root@elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:50:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] OFF LIST: One last important message X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wendy, Thank you for the information. I sent out a message to an email list for theater professors last night. I have a form to be filled out to put on our Gallery for the students. Several have already responded and said they will send the form back Tuesday. Ironically, several had responded that this year's enrollment was down because of gas prices. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 09:02:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84D2Jbn010716 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:02:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84D1TU3085106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:01:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84D1OQq025627; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:01:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84D1LD8025585 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:01:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.20) id A01A01EC; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 09:01:14 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.142 ([209.131.80.142] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 4 Sep 05 13:01:10 -0000 Message-ID: <00f401c5b151$2d9a9560$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509030401.j833wnoQ083121@net.indra.com><4.3.1.2.20050903051734.03360f20@mail.frys.com> <4319AF29.5080804@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:04:24 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re the time period of store bought clothing etc., I think that the availability of items will be better dated by the long history of mail-order companies which begins in the last quarter of the 19th C, and some items were available before this. The effect of the Industrial Revolution on mainstream life in general is probably the starting point. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes > Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > > > >> When did "off the rack" clothes > >> become THE WAY to go, as opposed to just being what > >> people who couldn't afford to have clothes made for > >> them wore? > > > > > > Probably as soon as they became plentiful and cheap. > > > > Store bought clothing and household goods became a sign of affluence > after the Depression, and again after WW2. People hid quilts under Sears > bedspreads and only wore flour sack underwear to school on days they > didn't have to change for gym. > > The 60's and 70's hippie movement spawned re-interest in those old > crafts, and by the 80's it was being called "art". > > > Dawn > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 09:19:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84DJWXG010869 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84DJ2tD085951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84DJ17o032352; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84DIwGW032330 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:19:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EBuOf-000FTu-6T for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:18:57 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:17:34 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Somehow I can't imagine most Goths, as I know them, sitting down doing anything as domesticated and constructive as making clothes. Making jewellery, possibly embellishing clothes, yes, but actual dressmaking? You can build up a pretty wide wardrobe by just buying things that are available in black, and while they might take a bit more searching out in smaller places, in Edinburgh there are plenty of shops where you can buy the crushed velvet dresses and other "specialist items". Jean Lavolta Press wrote >I'd agree with your definition, except that I associate the term "fiber >art" with textile arts other than sewing. Whereas, to me "wearable art" >covers sewing, weaving, spinning, knitting, crochet, embroidery, the >whole spectrum. Oh, except a hanging or sculpture is fiber art, but >not wearable. >As for Goths, who I supect may be a rather large DIY crowd, I've never >been tempted to become one because, as far as I can tell from the >historic costumers I know who are also Goths, they hang out in clubs >and listen to modern music. I can't stand modern music. Also, I look >awful in black. But some of the ideas on the net I've seen are really >creative. The Gothic Lolitas seem far too sweet and innocent to be >real Goths though. While, as far as I know, none of my passing Goth >acquaintances actually drink blood, they seem pretty sophisticated. > >Fran >Lavolta Press >http://www.lavoltapress > >> What I call wearable art and what Michael's craft stores call >>wearable art are rather different. They call things like >>craft-decorated t-shirts by that name, when they're selling supplies >>for making same. I have a little more highbrow definition, and would >>go with the more avant guarde and arty look. Upscale art and wine >>festivals have more what I would call wearable art. I also call it >>fiber art, which the craft stores pretty much don't. >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 09:39:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84Ddck3011014 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:39:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84Dd5wc087012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:39:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Dd4Wi039806; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:39:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Dd0ve039781 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EBui3-000IIV-9D for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:39:00 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:37:36 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] new Pride and Prejudice movie X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was lucky enough to get a ticket to a free preview of the new Pride and Prejudice movie. I enjoyed it very much - dialogue perhaps not very faithful to the book, but the characterisation was just right. I couldn't comment on the accuracy of the costuming, but the coding of the costumes was fascinating. It's set just a bit earlier than usual, so the older generation are still wearing the fashions of about the 1880s - Mrs Bennet and Lady Catherine de Burgh are both very solidly corseted, and the country squires in voluminous coats and embroidered waistcoats. For the rest, you can tell how fashionable a lady is by the height of her waistline! I thought that was really well done, and everyone had plenty of different clothes to wear for different situations. Go and enjoy! Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 10:43:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84EhCRb013005 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:43:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84Egb0N090821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84EgX0R066083; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:42:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84EgT34066053 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:42:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.72] (pool180-89.patriot.net [209.249.180.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j84EgKbZ032349 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:42:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:41:00 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: RE: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi De, Please watch for who said what when you snip quotes - it was Carolyn who said that particular line! > >And the chain-mail-bikini crowd - wearable, but is it art? > > -Carol >Comment: >Sorry to bring up SCA again but this reminded me of SCA in the early >eighties when from time to time a woman showed up in a chainmail >bikini and called herself a barbarian. Well, if she had to call herself something, I guess, but most people will agree that it's fantasy. >Having learned from experience or other people's experiences these >women started wearing the rabbit fur lined chainmail bikini. I find it amusing that it took some experience. Chainmail has been around medieval groups for a long time, and it's easy enough to understand how it feels against skin and those who make it discuss the importance of snipping the links without leaving burrs. Not to mention the screams of the people who put on or take off their chain mail shirts without wearing a cap. All that information tends to be passed along when someone teaches how to make mail. My impression is that some women wear unlined mail because it's sexier. Someone at the Origins convention wears chain mail dresses, and I've heard it's unlined, although I did not look too closely myself. >Then when colored wire became available you got artistic patterns >with the chainmail bikini, sans the fur but lined. I've also seen lighter weight wire, I guess aluminum. Fighters would wear padded garments under their mail to distribute the weight. Even with properly butted links, the mail will dig into the shoulders. Also, twenty years ago I would see some mail shirts with brass rings used for borders and sometimes inserted as designs. I'm not sure if that's historic or simply something people do because the structure lends itself to certain designs. Renaissance Faires also would have a booth selling chain mail/chain headdresses. They range in size from cauls to long veils, a mix of chain mail, looped chains and jewels. Old techniques, old shapes (veils), but the product is modern. The only time I've seen one worn outside a "historic" (Renfair/SCA/LARP) context was that Anne Rice wore one during a television interview. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 10:58:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84EwXht013076 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84EvxKl091637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:57:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84EvwEh072269; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Evr3Q072206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:57:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.72] (pool180-89.patriot.net [209.249.180.89]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j84EvosR025453 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:57:52 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:57:23 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean said, >Somehow I can't imagine most Goths, as I know them, sitting down >doing anything as domesticated and constructive as making clothes. That's the thing about costume groups, though. When people are dressed up at an elegant event, the illusion is that they had an army of seamstresses serving them, even though many make the outfits themselves. It's the same fantasy for Goths, to have that cool appearance without showing the feet paddling madly underneath. Then again, people I know of who are into Goth things, I know through costuming so it's a skewed idea. I caught a few episodes of R U the Girl, where the singing group TLC is auditioning for a new third person. On one of them, they gave the young women jeans, T-shirts and bags of trimming, fabric paint, etc - and their task was to style themselves. And while they were not making the clothes from yardgoods, it was definitely DIY! I see it as a continuum of skills. Trimming can lead down that slippery slope, from making simple unstructured things to fitted garments. From glue to needle and thread. Is this where I add my evil laugh? :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 11:39:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84FdsAT014859 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:39:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84FdCTX093816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:39:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84FdBja088178; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Fd7c3088158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:39:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-189.sonic.net [209.148.114.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Fd6UC004095 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:39:06 -0700 Message-ID: <431B151D.1020400@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 08:39:09 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <200509030401.j833wnoQ083121@net.indra.com><4.3.1.2.20050903051734.03360f20@mail.frys.com> <4319AF29.5080804@reddawn.net> <00f401c5b151$2d9a9560$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <00f401c5b151$2d9a9560$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's absolutely true that mail order "took off" in the US when the postal system was improved in, if I recall correctly, the 1870s. For that matter, mail order of a sort has been around for as long as people have traveled. Before efficient national postal systems, people routinely asked friends and relatives who lived elsewhere, or who were traveling elsewhere, to choose and send them items they wanted. They also made arrangements with retailers to send them merchandise. On the other hand, mail order is by no means the same thing as ready-to-wear. Ready-to-wear garments, when available, have always been available in stores, as well as (or instead of) by mail. Ready-to-wear also does not necessarily mean machine sewn. A certain amount of ready-to-wear has been around for a very long time. Even the Elizabethans sold some ready-made embroidered shirts. Men's eighteenth-century ready-mades were called "slops," because the fit was not very good. They were produced for markets with few resources for making their own clothes. In colonial America, these included slaves, Native Americans, and sailors. Most slops were imported. However, high-quality ready-to-wear leather breeches were produced in America, especially in Philadelphia. During the French and Indian War and the American Revolution, some contracts were formed with local tailors and seamstresses to produce soldiers' clothes. One of the first American clothing factories was the United States Army Clothing Establishment, set up to produce uniforms for the War of 1812, which operated till the end of the 19th century. By the early 1830s many American tailors kept a large stock of ready-mades on hand. It was a good way to keep journeymen busy during slack seasons and to use up excess cloth from their stocks, and even remnants on things like vests. In areas that served as supply-buying points for those emigrating westward, the RTW business thrived. Women's ready-to-wear took longer to become acceptable, partly because it was harder to produce a good fit, partly because the average woman had better sewing skills than the average man. However, women's RTW cloaks and wraps were available by the 1830s. In England, if I recall correctly, RTW women's lingerie outfits were available as early as the 1840s, for those emigrating to a colony and those who wanted trousseaus in a hurry. The original question on this list, was when it became more usual for most people to purchase clothing ready-made, than to have it custom made by either themselves or a dressmaker. Or buy buying it second-hand, the second-hand market having long fulfilled many of the functions of RTW. That point is usually regarded as the 1920s, by which time a long availability of an increasing amount of RTW had accustomed more and more people to buying it. Manufacturers had been improving sizing over the years, and the loose styles of many 1920s women's dresses made fit less of an issue. And, perhaps, the relative affluence of the 1920s made more people dismissive of second-hand clothes. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Re the time period of store bought clothing etc., I think that the >availability of items will be better dated by the long history of mail-order >companies which begins in the last quarter of the 19th C, and some items >were available before this. The effect of the Industrial Revolution on >mainstream life in general is probably the starting point. > >Kathleen > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 11:51:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84Fp3gE014948 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:51:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84FoaL3094450 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:50:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84FoY8V092461; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84FoUJ7092439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:50:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-189.sonic.net [209.148.114.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84FoSFF004382 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:50:29 -0700 Message-ID: <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 08:50:32 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's always seemed to me that the SCA was there "first," as an ongoing amateur reenactment organization. At least first in the US. Do you know what influence it's had on the formation of other reenactment groups, such as American Civil War, and American Revolution? I've also thought Renaissance Faires may have influenced the above. Parks & Recs departments saying, "Hey, they've shown you can get a lot of people to historic theme events, it makes money, we've got a historic park to center one around, let's try it." Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > >For those not keeping score, the SCA is possibly the longest-running >costume party in history. What it lacks in history it makes it makes up >in enthusiasm. And the mead is incredible:-) > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 12:15:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84GFWUK015136 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:15:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84GF3tI095871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:15:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84GF0uq002206; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:15:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84GEtDc002162 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:14:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.72] (pool180-140.patriot.net [209.249.180.140]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j84GEpYJ007819 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:14:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:13:35 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It's always seemed to me that the SCA was there "first," as an >ongoing amateur reenactment organization. At least first in the US. >Do you know what influence it's had on the formation of other >reenactment groups, such as American Civil War, and American >Revolution? I believe the Markland Medieval Mercenary Militia was formed in 1966 to reenact the battle of Hastings (1066). They began at the university of Maryland and eventually they and the SCA became acquainted. Markland has been going as a separate organization since it began. Likewise, American Civil War reenactment probably got popular for its centennial, in the 1960s. I had heard that veterans and enthusiasts got together before then. There are some "Revolutionary War" uniforms in collections that were made later for commemorations, perhaps 1876? While not necessarily reenactments, people were dressing up. I think the SCA influenced dressing up (and costume competitions) at science fiction and fantasy conventions, and also Live Action Role Playing (LARP). But the reenactment of American events grew on their own. Many of these events are held on or near property where the actual events occurred, and there is usually 21stC public visiting. This encouraged the idea of events as educational. Most SCA events are private - halls, parks and school property is rented for their use. American Revolution or Civil War groups will have private events, and generally each unit will have a meeting or party once or twice a year. My impression is that American Revolution or Civil War reenactment came to the west coast later, so the SCA was first in that area. But in the east it was already going on. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 12:45:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84Gj9Z6015372 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:45:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84GiitJ097715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:44:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Gig7O014330; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:44:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84GidZY014282 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:44:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kristalori@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 55so720683wri for ; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 09:44:34 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=UHEoXmOWstPLjrwqVv27n/79Ui/OgvcXkjwRJZge7OkCd8aOb9cXeytfczTl8ZnbiDBXSIdlXI/VVkjyFqVAazr7Nze9PVowU8T87IQ43+7ZGz30OpUNgjFhB3n9oClN1rOcCm32U4/+pNViHiuTAtl5qfsMTqu62pM5vIGlup8= Received: by 10.54.46.7 with SMTP id t7mr3476251wrt; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 09:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.105.6 with HTTP; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7164eae9050904094477f55969@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:44:34 -0400 From: Jacqueline Johnson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050903113241.58067.qmail@web31104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903134942.03426458@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903152718.026571f0@mail.frys.com> <431A30C2.8070309@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j84Gj9Z6015372 Status: RO Well most Goths are also pretty self sufficent. You do have some that do cookie cutter Goth and buy everything at Lip Service and Hot Topic but they are IMHO the minority. Most Goths are working crappy jobs because of one reason or another and so can't afford to pay the prices that RTW Goth clothing costs. Which can get pricey. Up on Live Journal where I hang out most there are probably 800 groups dedicated to Goths who do their own clothes. There are probably another 600 where a few of them sell their talents to those who might sew and just want something OOAK or don't sew but want individual works. Yahoo is the same. There are MANY groups dedicated to Goth sewing. And don't even get me started on the millions of websites out there. I personally don't know any cookie cutter Goths they're rare here on the East coast. B~ On 9/4/05, Jean Waddie wrote: > > Somehow I can't imagine most Goths, as I know them, sitting down doing > anything as domesticated and constructive as making clothes. Making > jewellery, possibly embellishing clothes, yes, but actual dressmaking? > You can build up a pretty wide wardrobe by just buying things that are > available in black, and while they might take a bit more searching out > in smaller places, in Edinburgh there are plenty of shops where you can > buy the crushed velvet dresses and other "specialist items". > > Jean > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 13:09:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84H9FnL015566 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:09:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84H8fYV099365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:08:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84H8RvU025169; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:08:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84H8Oal025129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:08:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-189.sonic.net [209.148.114.189]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84H8MQp016399 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:08:23 -0700 Message-ID: <431B2A0B.90801@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:08:27 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I believe the Markland Medieval Mercenary Militia was formed in > 1966 to reenact the battle of Hastings (1066). They began at the > university of Maryland and eventually they and the SCA became > acquainted. Markland has been going as a separate organization since > it began. > > Likewise, American Civil War reenactment probably got popular for > its centennial, in the 1960s. I had heard that veterans and > enthusiasts got together before then. It's interesting that these also started in that mid-1960s period, whether there was any influence from the SCA or not. > > There are some "Revolutionary War" uniforms in collections that > were made later for commemorations, perhaps 1876? While not > necessarily reenactments, people were dressing up. True, but I was talking about the modern reenactment movement rather than, say, Victorian costume balls. > > Most SCA events are private - halls, parks and school property is > rented for their use. I wouldn't quite call that private . . . not like, say, a Victorian costume ball, or a modern party, where only friends are invited. I'd call it organizational. Anyone can join the SCA as far as I know. It used to be possible to attend events without being a member, but I don't know if that's still true. > > My impression is that American Revolution or Civil War > reenactment came to the west coast later, so the SCA was first in that > area. But in the east it was already going on. > > I believe there have never been as many events for those eras here, as back East. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 13:24:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84HO7i7015685 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84HNkvF000430 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:23:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84HNhhZ032058; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84HNe6L032023 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:23:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j84HNcbv019538; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:23:38 -0400 Message-ID: <431B2DA3.6060907@msn.com> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:23:47 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TheRenaissanceTailor , "h-costume@indra.com" References: <431B2C1F.6030407@saragrace.net> In-Reply-To: <431B2C1F.6030407@saragrace.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] More examples of "small" Elizabethan style gowns. X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the cross-posts. Have any of you come across any other images of size/style of gowns in POF on pages 12&13? I am specifically looking for images like the more moderate sized drum farthingales on the effigies in pictures 61-64, 65, and 67. Thanks! Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 14:14:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84IEQLC016071 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:14:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84IDn1C004204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:13:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84IDgCg054345; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:13:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [204.127.198.54]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84IDbJh054265 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:13:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 (rwcrwbc77.asp.att.net[204.127.197.177]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005090418133201400fci8de>; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:13:32 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.119; Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:13:30 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:13:30 +0000 Message-Id: <090420051813.22497.431B394A000DB890000057E12200751090969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, at a re-enactment weekend at Bent's Old Fort National Historic Site (SE Colorado) last month, the re-enactors that I spoke to indicated that most of their fellows had dabbled in the SCA, but since left for more authentic pastures. It seems likely that the SCA has, at least, served to get many people initially involved in experiential archeology. Melanie in Denver > Do you > know what influence it's had on the formation of other reenactment > groups, such as American Civil War, and American Revolution? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 14:37:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84Ibf1r016241 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:37:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84IbLYs005714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:37:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84IbKHJ066814; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:37:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84IbGFI066786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:37:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.72] (pool180-246.patriot.net [209.249.180.246]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j84IbBvQ021123 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:37:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <431B2A0B.90801@lavoltapress.com> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <431B2A0B.90801@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:34:08 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fran wrote, >It's interesting that these also started in that mid-1960s period, >whether there was any influence from the SCA or not. A sign of the times, then - the beginning of more activity in hobbies that are intense and not mainstream, yet they gained a good number of participants. >True, but I was talking about the modern reenactment movement rather >than, say, Victorian costume balls. I see the battle reenactments as being influenced by those, however, more than they were by the SCA. >> >> Most SCA events are private - halls, parks and school property >>is rented for their use. > >I wouldn't quite call that private . . . not like, say, a Victorian >costume ball, or a modern party, where only friends are invited. >I'd call it organizational. Anyone can join the SCA as far as I >know. It used to be possible to attend events without being a >member, but I don't know if that's still true. Private in the sense that everyone there is in costume as a participant. While people don't need to pay their dues to the SCA in order to attend, a requirement is that they wear an attempt at period costume. Many battle reenactments have spectators/visitors who are not costumed participants, and I think of those as public. With vintage dances, the ones I know of are advertised - anyone may attend. Often they are "costume admired but not required", and some dancers will attend in 21stC suit and tie or dress. Some dance enthusiasts will throw a party that is truly private, as you describe, but then I don't think it would be considered reenactment at that point. I'm not sure of your meaning of Victorian costume balls - is it those held in the 19th century, or vintage dances now? -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 14:48:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84ImElg016316 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:48:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84IlnBC006502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:47:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Ilmbk071254; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:47:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84Iljjp071238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:47:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-54.sonic.net [209.148.113.54]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84IlhBh009797 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 11:47:44 -0700 Message-ID: <431B4154.5030304@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:47:48 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <431B2A0B.90801@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Those held in the 19th century, which I see as the ancestors of some of today's "reenactments." Many were truly private invitation-only events. A few people throw private at-home Victorian or other costumed dances today, particularly for things like theme weddings (another spin-off of reenactment IMO). But usually such events are public, buy-a-ticket, because they usually require renting a largish space. And I agree, people are often allowed to wear modern evening dress, although for some the "attempt" at a period costume is stipulated. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > I'm not sure of your meaning of Victorian costume balls - is it > those held in the 19th century, or vintage dances now? > > -Carol > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 16:23:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84KNT2n017123 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84KN07i012859 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:23:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84KMujb009913; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:22:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84KMq6b009868 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:22:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408623B5F9 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 15:22:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <431B5791.1080707@reddawn.net> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 15:22:41 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Muslin at JoAnn Fabrics (not) References: <8296995c0508111311fbfd363@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8296995c0508111311fbfd363@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > At any rate, if you want good-quality muslin from JoAnn's go NOW. Or > find a new supplier. I was really disappointed because I love the 200 > count bleached muslin I have bought there before. And for all I know, > this is old news to most people. Well, I confirmed Lynn's news today while shopping. One of my local stores now has the "Joann's" brand muslin in, and it is indeed more coarse (to my fingers, anyway) than the Roc-Lon brand they've been carrying. I noticed it is made by Springs. I've got mixed feelings about Springs, some of their quilt cotton is fine, but I've also returned some of their "100% cotton" fabric which failed a burn test. I was fortunate enough to get 3 bolts of Roc-Lon at the 50% off sale that runs through Monday. I don't expect to see it at Joann's again. I'm tempted to write and tell them I think the new muslin is inferior in quality. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 18:51:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84Mp9bn018142 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:51:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84MoSLn020929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:50:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84MoOMI065625; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:50:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84MoMat065578 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:50:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id 6.194.465ee266 (18707) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:50:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <194.465ee266.304cd424@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:50:12 EDT Subject: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Never was a goth myself, but had lots of goth friends (and still have a few!). Most of them wouldn't be caught dead making their own clothes - adapting maybe, but not actually making. There was a healthy band of good cheap 'alternative' clothing shops in Newcastle and the surrounding area, and a few in Leeds, near where I went to college. That said I always made my own clothes - and occasionally bits for friends - largely cos I couldn't afford to buy new clothes. Adapting stuff from charity shops was always popular though! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 19:19:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84NJ3L7018251 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:19:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84NIjQR022732 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 17:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84NIi7l076105; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 17:18:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84NIewG076086 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 17:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 334CA3F4F5 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:18:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DFD66D41E for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:18:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:18:56 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for mis-snip. -----Original Message----- >Then when colored wire became available you got artistic patterns >with the chainmail bikini, sans the fur but lined. (Snip) Also, twenty years ago I would see some mail shirts with brass rings used for borders and sometimes inserted as designs. I'm not sure if that's historic or simply something people do because the structure lends itself to certain designs. De: There was some wire that had a solid color coating like reds, blues and greens. I know that there is such a thing as metal blackening so it is possible for black chainmail. In the 1500s there was accent on the armour with either brass or gold, don't know which, may be both. << Renaissance Faires also would have a booth selling chainmail/chain headdresses. They range in size from cauls to long veils, a mix of chain mail, looped chains and jewels. Old techniques, old shapes (veils), but the product is modern. De:I always believed they stem from the Edwardian view of the Middle Ages and Camelot. But mostly I have seen the chainmail cauls in Erte's drawings. < The only time I've seen one worn outside a "historic" (Renfair/SCA/LARP) context was that Anne Rice wore one during a television view. -Carol De: I've seen them in plays and Halloween and one Goth. She had white blond hair and the chainmail was black with red crystals. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 19:21:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j84NLmUw018256 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j84NLWEn022950 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 17:21:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84NLV9m077217; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 17:21:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net (smtp5.suscom.net [64.78.83.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j84NLQGg077151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 17:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC00351023E for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp5 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 18720-02-16 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp5.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E54151010D for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:21:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:20:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Kocian" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing > > Likewise, American Civil War reenactment probably got popular for its > centennial, in the 1960s. I had heard that veterans and enthusiasts got > together before then. > > There are some "Revolutionary War" uniforms in collections that were > made later for commemorations, perhaps 1876? While not necessarily > reenactments, people were dressing up. My very first encounter with any kind of costuming (other than Halloween) was when South Lyon Michigan celebrated its Centennial in 1973--so I would have been 9 years old. There was a big celebration, and everyone dressed up. My mom sewed "prairie dresses" and sunbonnets for herself and we three girls, and I'm sure she made something for my dad, but the only thing I remember is that he grew a magnificent beard for the "best beard contest" and then shaved it off two weeks prior to the contest because it itched! I wish I still had that sunbonnet, I loved it. I was very into the Little House books at the time, so it was really neat to have an outfit like Laura's! I still have, somewhere, a pattern put out by one of the Big 3 for the Bicentennial--for a two-piece dress with a zipper! Ack! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 21:27:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j851RGQE019010 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 21:27:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j851Qiu2034346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:26:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j851QfEO025166; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:26:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j851Qa71025127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 11578 invoked by uid 507); 5 Sep 2005 11:26:34 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 5 Sep 2005 11:26:34 +1000 Message-ID: <007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER><431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:26:37 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen references to 17th century ancient Roman /16th century/fantasy reenactments. The Little Castle at Bolsover was designed for these sorts of parties. I'm hoping to hold one of these Roman reenactments myself sometime in the next couple of years. I envision many people in their normal 17th century clothing with a bedsheet draped around them as a toga, then there are many of us who also participate in Ancient reenactment, so it'll be easy for us (naturally, I expect my husband to wear his black hat with his purple edged toga!) And of course, anything from Pompeii is right out! Glenda _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 4 22:14:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j852E8RG019293 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 22:14:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j852DjDU036921 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j852Dhcl043558; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:13:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j852DdSi043526 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:13:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-237.sonic.net [209.148.114.237]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j852DWxr022204 for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:13:37 -0700 Message-ID: <431BA9CD.8080209@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 19:13:33 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER><431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> <007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: <007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What did they do for ancient Roman reenactment in the 17th century? Fran Glenda Robinson wrote: > I've seen references to 17th century ancient Roman /16th > century/fantasy reenactments. The Little Castle at Bolsover was > designed for these sorts of parties. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 03:18:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j857IoFi014609 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j857IHpM055042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 01:18:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j857IDLL059933; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 01:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail9.tpgi.com.au (mail9.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j857I8Of059908 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 01:18:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-222-244-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.244]) by mail9.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j857I6Zb007258 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:18:08 +1000 Message-ID: <00fc01c5b1e9$d87a09a0$f4def5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER><431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis><007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> <431BA9CD.8080209@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:17:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments > What did they do for ancient Roman reenactment in the 17th century? > > Fran > Aren't there a couple of books from around the turn of the 17th century that feature drawings of costumes for a Masque (i.e. fancy dress balls/parties). Aha, here's some examples http://costume.dm.net/masque/ and links to more examples at the bottom of this page http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/masque.html. Or try a web search on Masque costumes. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 03:46:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j857k1aZ016762 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j857jbUJ056395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 01:45:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j857jZtO070029; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 01:45:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j857jU5W070001 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 01:45:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 20086 invoked by uid 507); 5 Sep 2005 17:45:29 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 5 Sep 2005 17:45:29 +1000 Message-ID: <013601c5b1ed$cbeb2d00$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER><431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis><007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> <431BA9CD.8080209@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 15:33:07 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think they did a lot of fantasy - Inigo Jones has some fantasy ancients in his masque woodcuts. They also would have used 'modern' statues an paintings of ancient figures as ideals. It was a rich-people's hobby, so the stuff was very fancy - Gold paint, papier mache armour etc etc. I wish I could live like that! It would be so much more fun than being an upper-middle class part time computer nerd working mother! But then again, I suppose every lifestyle gets old after a few years. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments > What did they do for ancient Roman reenactment in the 17th century? > > Fran > > Glenda Robinson wrote: > >> I've seen references to 17th century ancient Roman /16th century/fantasy >> reenactments. The Little Castle at Bolsover was designed for these sorts >> of parties. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 04:00:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8580V2O021056 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85808V0057091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85806TP074856; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85803ot074833 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j857xwmU022203 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:59:58 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j857xr4E029326 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:59:59 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905002309.034cd008@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:55:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Milia Davenport (was Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <20050904034249.61717.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >'Sideless cotehardie' comes from Milia Davenport's >book. >Noticed the error right before I bought the book, >because it is still one of the few books with that >many contemporary-to-the-style pictures available. > >And at least some of the early fifteenth century >pictures are from re-drawings, but you have to be >wide-awake to recognize the sources. Redrawings in Davenport? Where? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 04:00:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8580XLl021069 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j858082P057092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85808Oo074874; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j858041A074836 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j857xxmU022227 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 03:59:59 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j857xr4G029326 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905002659.034dfae0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:30:17 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Please watch for who said what when you snip quotes - it was Carolyn > who said that particular line! > >> >And the chain-mail-bikini crowd - wearable, but is it art? I usually go by Kayta in person. Only my mother calls me Carolyn anymore. >> My impression is that some women wear unlined mail because it's >> sexier. Someone at the Origins convention wears chain mail dresses, and >> I've heard it's unlined, although I did not look too closely myself. If you want real metal and real sexiness, try Whiting and Davis mesh. It's slinky, comes in many colors, and doesn't weigh as much as SCA-weigh chain mail. Whiting and Davis also makes chain mail, in Deco-purse weight and butcher's-glove weight. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 04:00:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8580oDw021133 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8580RQ4057173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8580RYs075099; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j858073k074866 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j85802mU022834 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:02 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j857xr4K029326 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:03 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:59:52 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >It's always seemed to me that the SCA was there "first," as an ongoing >amateur reenactment organization. At least first in the US. Do you know >what influence it's had on the formation of other reenactment groups, such >as American Civil War, and American Revolution? The SCA and the Patterson's version of Ren. Faire have been going around and around for years about which one was first. (Phyllis Patterson invented Ren. Faires, and coined the term "living History".) I participate in both because it's more chances to wear costumes. And, because their goals are different I can do more different things while in costume. IMHO, they are both outgrowths of the movement that also produced Hippies. -snip- > There are some "Revolutionary War" uniforms in collections that were > made later for commemorations, perhaps 1876? While not necessarily > reenactments, people were dressing up. People have been dressing up since before America was "invented". This includes Fancy Dress events where folks like Queen Victoria and Prince Consort Albert dressed up Medievally for a joust, and the Czar of Russia and many of the Russian Court dressed up in 'historical' Russian costumes. -snip- >It's interesting that these also started in that mid-1960s period, whether >there was any influence from the SCA or not. Something happened in the 1960s, and all these things, and Hippies, came out of it. They are only related by the fact that they were "invented" at about the same time. (And the fact that they all show up at Science Fiction conventions...) -snip- > Private in the sense that everyone there is in costume as a > participant. While people don't need to pay their dues to the SCA in > order to attend, a requirement is that they wear an attempt at period costume. > > Many battle reenactments have spectators/visitors who are not > costumed participants, and I think of those as public. SCA events in public parks draw non-costumed spectators too. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 04:00:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8580tOK021156 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8580RMM057172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8580Rx2075096; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85807tc074857 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:00:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j85801mU022614 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:01 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j857xr4I029326 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:00:00 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905003249.034c6020@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 00:37:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes In-Reply-To: <431B151D.1020400@lavoltapress.com> References: <00f401c5b151$2d9a9560$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> <200509030401.j833wnoQ083121@net.indra.com> <4.3.1.2.20050903051734.03360f20@mail.frys.com> <4319AF29.5080804@reddawn.net> <00f401c5b151$2d9a9560$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >For that matter, mail order of a sort has been around for as long as >people have traveled. Before efficient national postal systems, people >routinely asked friends and relatives who lived elsewhere, or who were >traveling elsewhere, to choose and send them items they wanted. I'm thinking those "fashion babies"; dolls made/dressed in fashion centers like London, in the latest fashion, and sent/carried to the hinterlands to give the local seamstress ideas of what to make. BTW, Jost Amman's book of Renaissance occupations shows many shopkeepers with ready-made items for sale. Without the book in front of me I can think of a few examples - shoes, gloves, belts, and purses/pouches - but I think there are more in there. The book was originally published in 1567, I think. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 04:02:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8582glM021839 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:02:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8582Qc6057267 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:02:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8582P2p075867; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:02:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8582MOP075849 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:02:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8582HmU025444 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:02:17 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8582H1i001108 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:02:17 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905010120.02660130@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 01:02:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments In-Reply-To: <013601c5b1ed$cbeb2d00$0202a8c0@mycomputer> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> <007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> <431BA9CD.8080209@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I wish I could live like that! It would be so much more fun than being an >upper-middle class part time computer nerd working mother! But then again, >I suppose every lifestyle gets old after a few years. Yeah, but if you had that much money you could afford to get into a new lifestyle whenever you wanted. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 04:17:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j858HUJp025596 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:17:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j858GUJK061090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:16:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j858GTpw080991; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:16:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j858GOkd080951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:16:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 24187 invoked by uid 507); 5 Sep 2005 18:16:23 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 5 Sep 2005 18:16:23 +1000 Message-ID: <016c01c5b1f2$1c75eea0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com><006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis><007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer><431BA9CD.8080209@lavoltapress.com> <4.3.1.2.20050905010120.02660130@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:16:25 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sigh! One can only dream. For a couple of minutes, then it's back to the grind - dinner to cook and ironing to do... I need to extend my ancient reenactment and buy a good slave (I think the Roman slaves were treated so much better than the 18th and 19th century slaves or servants - after all, they were a valuable, tradable commodity, so you didn't let them get tired out and ill, and a well dressed slave reflected on your own wealth). Now I'm dreaming again! Glenda > >>I wish I could live like that! It would be so much more fun than being an >>upper-middle class part time computer nerd working mother! But then again, >>I suppose every lifestyle gets old after a few years. > > Yeah, but if you had that much money you could afford to get into a new > lifestyle whenever you wanted. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 04:29:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j858T7kl027954 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 04:29:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j858SfxB064240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:28:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j858ScsZ085013; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:28:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j858SYOX084952 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 02:28:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 42740 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2005 08:28:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2005 08:28:28 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905091555.01d41008@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:28:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1062/Sun Sep 4 01:55:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:59 05/09/2005, you wrote: >>It's always seemed to me that the SCA was there "first," as an >>ongoing amateur reenactment organization. At least first in the >>US. Do you know what influence it's had on the formation of other >>reenactment groups, such as American Civil War, and American Revolution? > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com I don't know who or which group started the Living History thing in England, or whether the term Living History came from the U.S. However, I do remember going to a huge open air event in 1953, where history was celebrated by people dressing up. I believe it was called a pageant, and was all amateur, although the team organising it *must* have been professional. These pageants have been happening in England since at least the Middle Ages, and some say are the origins of theatre in England. In France they have "Son et Lumiere" performances in Puy de Fou that have been done for many, many years, and literally thousands take part. It tells the history of the village, and all the locals participate. (It lasts for over 4 hours!) There are of course many other forms of this kind of performance, and they have been in existence since before the '60's I am sure. My mother and her sister were involved in a similar thing in Stratford on Avon, in the 30's when the new theatre was opened - they wore Shakespearean clothing and re-enacted the life of Shakespeare - of course it was not called re-enacting then. (They had "Elizabethan" dresses and I used to play with one as dressing up clothes - it got thrown away - merde!!) I think it is difficult to determine what is "Re-enactment" and what is merely dressing up for an event or occasion. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 07:16:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85BGw0U024015 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:16:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85BG0sw088309 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:16:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85BFuvV046494; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:15:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85BFqSp046465 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070F540229 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:15:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BEEF6C4AA for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:15:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:16:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050905002659.034dfae0@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- .....(snip)....and butcher's-glove weight. ----- I have a friend who use to make chainmail. he made the butcher's glove size links and a wee bit smaller. He would call this "insanemail" De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 07:34:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85BY13Y024126 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:34:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85BXFCr091459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:33:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85BXE9C052868; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:33:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1b.socket.net [216.106.88.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85BFplr046459 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5C240079 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:15:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 48C6AC4AA for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:15:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:16:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- SCA events in public parks draw non-costumed spectators too. ************* Usually, these are refered to as demos, fighter practice or "recruitment"(for lack of a better word). "Events" are usually something on a much more grander scale and normally is not posted to the regular public. De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 07:56:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85Bulwi024310 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:56:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85BuIx9094791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:56:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85BuGn5061117; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:56:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85BuCZ9061018 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 05:56:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j85Bu6X19671.; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:56:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:56:06 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:55:44 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j85Bulwi024310 Status: RO A Masque was not quite the same as a fancy-dress ball in that it specifically entailed a theatrical presentation, with both professional actors and high-ranking personages portraying characters, though of course it was not open to the general public. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> ewalpole@tpg.com.au 05/09/2005 08:17 >>> ----- Original Message ----- > Aren't there a couple of books from around the turn of the 17th century that feature drawings of costumes for a Masque (i.e. fancy dress balls/parties). Aha, here's some examples http://costume.dm.net/masque/ and links to more examples at the bottom of this page http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/masque.html. Or try a web search on Masque costumes. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 08:04:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85C4gv3024367 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:04:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85C4NfN095774 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:04:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85C4MTO064344; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:04:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85C4IXQ064280 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 06:04:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j85C4CX20416.; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:04:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:04:12 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:03:57 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j85C4gv3024367 Status: RO As far as I know the first reenactment group in the UK was the Sealed Knot, which started with an event staged in 1968 to publicise a book on the Battle of Edgehill by Brig. Peter Young. I first heard the term "living history" when the SK started demonstrating crafts etc. in a period encampment in addition to the battle displays. I think this was in the early 80s. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 05/09/2005 09:28 >>> I don't know who or which group started the Living History thing in England, or whether the term Living History came from the U.S. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 10:11:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85EB5Qx026185 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:11:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85EAUa1012871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:10:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85EASps016406; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:10:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51314.mail.yahoo.com (web51314.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.124]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j85EAPec016345 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:10:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 13041 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Sep 2005 14:10:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5kd+Pp0pAoZrkrAI98bs4OmICYHfuqDe024Nr0LaBZIEEAYmfz1OCG0Z0WarXC5RCLWfGieDLPRUWqkl8TVhMdD2jMoAykBpF6KAtXtVQksgVKFScnU1xSxtqtyKB+ayAWkkRdi9Q1uEMpRF3JHTnNnxv7Z4zWx9Iu3bvW7Ku5E= ; Message-ID: <20050905141019.13039.qmail@web51314.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51314.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:10:19 PDT Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:10:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: Milia Davenport (was Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050905002309.034cd008@mail.frys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Many of the brasses are not rubbings or photographs, i.e., 585. 1347 A.D. English. (Brass of Flemish workmanship.) (Elsing, Norfolk.) [i] Sir Hugh Hastings[/i]; 586, 592,593,594, 595, 596, 597, 600. Number 654, "1377. German. (Neckerstinach Chapel.) Brass. Ritter Helle Landschaden and Lady" is definately re-drawn. Whereas 591, 598, 599, 650, 651, & 652 look much more like actual rubbings of the brasses. Number 669 & 670 are re-drawings of the painted ceilings in the Alhambra; 668 is a photo of a painted ceiling. 823--Incised slab XVc. c. 1445. Flemish--redrawn. 839-46. XVc. c. 1450. French. (Paris, Bibliotheque Nationale, ms 6465.) [i]Grandes Chroniques de France[/i] executed by [i]Jean Foquet[/i] <--impeccable lineage there, but "From Foquet: [i]Grandes Chroniques de France.[/i] Paris, 1906. Berthaud freres. And 853-55. Paris, Bibl. Nat. ms. fr. 24378.: From Count A. Bastard d'Estang: [i]Costumes, moeurs et uesages de la cour de Bourgogne,[/i] 1445-60. Paris 1881. Not exhaustive, just what I found this morning. Ann in CT --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >'Sideless cotehardie' comes from Milia Davenport's > >book. > > > >And at least some of the early fifteenth century > >pictures are from re-drawings, but you have to be > >wide-awake to recognize the sources. > > Redrawings in Davenport? Where? > > > CarolynKayta Barrows ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 10:21:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85ELJcR026904 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85EKvtj014019 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:20:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85EKsiX020767; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:20:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85EKovb020724 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:20:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j85EKimU019710 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:20:44 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85EKdN9011332 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:20:45 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905065858.027080f8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:16:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >SCA events in public parks draw non-costumed spectators too. > >************* >Usually, these are refered to as demos, fighter practice or >"recruitment"(for lack of a better word). >"Events" are usually something on a much more grander scale and normally is >not posted to the regular public. I'm referring to actual tourneys, not the demos nor fighter practice (which also attract non-costumed spectators). There are many smaller instances of the grand scale events I think you're referring to, often put on by some local chapter. They are not intended as public demos nor even always as fighter events, and could be days of classes or banquet events. ABut any SCA event held in a public park will attract the attention of other people who had come expecting to use that park for things like picnics or Frisbee throwing. Smaller Ren. Faires often use public parks too, but, unlike the SCA, they fence off their events and charge admission. Since the SCA does not fence off their events nor charge admission, non-costumed people do wander by to see what's going on with all the costumed people with tents. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 10:21:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85ELJKT026905 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85EKvoW014018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:20:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85EKt7k020775; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:20:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85EKoF4020729 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:20:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j85EKjmU019720 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:20:45 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85EKdNB011332 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:20:46 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905071717.026540c8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:20:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >As far as I know the first reenactment group in the UK was the Sealed >Knot, which started with an event staged in 1968 to publicise a book on >the Battle of Edgehill by Brig. Peter Young. I first heard the term >"living history" when the SK started demonstrating crafts etc. in a period >encampment in addition to the battle displays. I think this was in the >early 80s. The Living History Center, a function of the original Ren. Faire here in California, had been going for a number of years by the early 80s. In 1980 I worked one of their Ren. Faires to get the money to move from Southern CA to Northern CA. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 11:02:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85F2GdM027409 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85F1sJH019127 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:01:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85F1qQh038648; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:01:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85F1nW3038596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:01:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ECITV-0003de-RF; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:01:33 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:01:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20050905100133.7cvbhs8ypgm8cckw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:01:33 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting otsisto : > -----Original Message----- > SCA events in public parks draw non-costumed spectators too. > > ************* > Usually, these are refered to as demos, fighter practice or > "recruitment"(for lack of a better word). > "Events" are usually something on a much more grander scale and normally is > not posted to the regular public. > Our two big tourneys are held at the group came at a local state park -- which is very much a public site. The spectators do watch the fighting from a distance -- many ask questions and some stay and feast with us (suitably garbed/tabarded of course). One year, one of the park rangers came, stayed and later joined. Unless your event is held on Private Property, if you at a visible part of State Park property (which is where many of our events are held), you have spectators. Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 11:34:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85FYKEj027810 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:34:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85FXgeD022695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:33:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85FXes5052568; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85FXa4F052479 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:33:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA713B5FF for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:33:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <431C654C.6030302@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 10:33:32 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO otsisto wrote: > -----Original Message----- > SCA events in public parks draw non-costumed spectators too. > > ************* > Usually, these are refered to as demos, fighter practice or > "recruitment"(for lack of a better word). > "Events" are usually something on a much more grander scale and normally is > not posted to the regular public. Depends on where you live. I've been to events in various states that were not considered recruiting, but full-fledged feasts, tournaments or coronations and were held in large open public parks. Some of them stopped traffic and drew crowds. It was the public display of costumes that first attracted me, and I'm sure many others. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 11:38:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85FcO0M027861 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:38:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85Fc3QF023338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:38:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85Fc27u054340; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:38:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85FbbLC054216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:38:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-169.sonic.net [209.148.114.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85FbZIl003373 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:37:36 -0700 Message-ID: <431C6644.7090207@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:37:40 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER><431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis><007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> <431BA9CD.8080209@lavoltapress.com> <00fc01c5b1e9$d87a09a0$f4def5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <00fc01c5b1e9$d87a09a0$f4def5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I know about masques, but was wondering if there was something closer to a modern reenactment. Fran http://www.lavoltapress.com Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >> >> >Aren't there a couple of books from around the turn of the 17th century that >feature drawings of costumes for a Masque (i.e. fancy dress balls/parties). >Aha, here's some examples http://costume.dm.net/masque/ and links to more >examples at the bottom of this page >http://costume.dm.net/wardrobe/masque.html. Or try a web search on Masque >costumes. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 11:58:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85FwsH7028018 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:58:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85FwNvv026492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:58:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85FwM0P065356; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:58:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85FwJ9n065317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:58:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-169.sonic.net [209.148.114.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85FwHSk007926 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:58:18 -0700 Message-ID: <431C6B1E.4030606@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:58:22 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's always been a significant overlap between science fiction/fantasy readers, and reenactors. There are also a fair number of ex-hippies in the older reenactor generation. I think "dressing up" is a very significant factor here. In much of the US in the 1960s and early 1970s, things like miniskirts (which were not hippie clothing, but high-fashion "Mod"), scruffy jeans, and long hair for men, let alone offbeat real vintage or historically inpsired clothes--they were all shocking. Startling. Attention-getting on the street. Getting disapproving columns in the newspapers, which referred to immorality and dangers to society. Wearing anything really unusual was a social statement and a threat to the established order. Now, whenever an extreme fad comes around, all most people who dislike it do, is to say, "Gee, I don't really care for artificial-scarlet-colored hair, belly button piercings, whatever." We've all gotten used to diversity. It used to be that everyone knew what THE skirt length was, and being a half-inch too high or low was, not radical, but visible and dowdy. These days, whenever I hem up a ready-to-wear skirt, I have trouble figuring out what the proper skirt length is, or even if there is one, which there doesn't seem to be right now. (Which suits me, it saves me a fair amount of hemming. I often just wear the skirt longer.) So what I'm getting to is that historic reenactment was a very offbeat activity in the mid1960s, and partly because it required wearing seriously offbeat clothes. Furthermore, that it appealed to people who already liked wearing seriously offbeat clothes. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > Something happened in the 1960s, and all these things, and Hippies, > came out of it. They are only related by the fact that they were > "invented" at about the same time. (And the fact that they all show > up at Science Fiction conventions...) > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 12:00:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85G02YD028032 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:00:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85FxjG4026647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:59:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85Fxi9W066025; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:59:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85Fxf0S065990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:59:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-169.sonic.net [209.148.114.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85Fxeiu008159 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:59:41 -0700 Message-ID: <431C6B71.8050504@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:59:45 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Early Reenactments References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com><006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis><007b01c5b1b8$dcd03aa0$0202a8c0@mycomputer><431BA9CD.8080209@lavoltapress.com> <4.3.1.2.20050905010120.02660130@mail.frys.com> <016c01c5b1f2$1c75eea0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: <016c01c5b1f2$1c75eea0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen a lot of websites for people who want slaves. How's your black leather wardrobe? Fran > > > I need to extend my ancient reenactment and buy a good slave > > > Glenda > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 12:02:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85G20rU028069 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:02:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85G1WOi026833 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85G1WIt066848; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:01:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85G1SYD066829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:01:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-169.sonic.net [209.148.114.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85G1R7A008490 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:01:28 -0700 Message-ID: <431C6BDC.6010708@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:01:32 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050905091555.01d41008@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905091555.01d41008@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Perhaps, but if I were to describe a person involved in reenactment, I'd say that (a) they did it pretty regularly and (b) not as part of a theatrical performance. Fran > > > I think it is difficult to determine what is "Re-enactment" and what > is merely dressing up for an event or occasion. > > Suzi > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 12:11:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85GBG8R028139 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:11:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85GAuqH027894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:10:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85GAsvo071181; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:10:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f34.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85GApJI071128 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:10:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:10:46 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.210 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:10:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.210] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509050802.j8580Ci1074918@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 11:10:45 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Sep 2005 16:10:46.0004 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F7DA340:01C5B234] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: eirenetz@comcast.net >Well, at a re-enactment weekend at Bent's Old Fort National Historic Site >(SE Colorado) last month, >the re-enactors that I spoke to indicated that most of their fellows had >dabbled in the SCA, but >since left for more authentic pastures. It seems likely that the SCA has, >at least, served to get >many people initially involved in experiential archeology. I realize that you are probably speaking somewhat facetiously, but I should point out that re-enacting does not equal expermential archaeology. It's an excellent outlet for it, but they aren't the same. Experimental archaeology is a scientific concept that requires a certain rigor in materials, environment, test design, documentation, and such that is lacking in most cases. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 12:14:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85GEej5028159 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:14:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85GE7ei028254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85GE7Q2072490; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85GE3Ce072449 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:14:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16188 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:35:58 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:35:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: Milia Davenport (was Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <20050905141019.13039.qmail@web51314.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 5 Sep 2005, Ann Catelli wrote: > Many of the brasses are not rubbings or photographs, And it really makes a difference. One of the brass images in Davenport (from King's Lynn, Norfolk -- either Braunche or Walsokne, I forget which she shows) has a crucial error in the decoration that makes part of one layer look like another. I thought it was an engraver error for years till I saw a real rubbing and realized that the error was by the person who did the drawing, not original to the brass. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 12:34:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85GYbRW028394 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:34:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85GXvhi030787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:33:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85GXsU1081598; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:33:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85GXpVX081571 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:33:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.183] (acty1183.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.183]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57435C655 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:33:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <431C7367.1090309@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:33:43 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org><20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> In-Reply-To: <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, All. Regarding the SCA, since it takes it's atmosphere and inspiration from the Victorian view of the Middle Ages, one can look back to the late Victorian period to see an event scheduled by gentlemen of leisure for a tournament to be ridden using original and copied armor. IIRC, the event never happened due to rain, but I do have photos of an armored jousting tournament being held in the 30s here in the Atlantic City NJ area in the old Convention Hall. I assume that, due to the cost, it was some sort of traveling entertainment that came to this area temporarily. There are no closeup views of the folks involved, so I can't see clothing, but due to the popularity of the Hollywood Medieval genre, I'm sure there were some additional cast members around wearing some costumes. Not exactly reenactment, so i don't think it counts, but... Mike T. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 14:04:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85I4Eok029242 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85I3We6041396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:03:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85I334k022710; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:03:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85I0Gm3021480 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:00:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1ECLGS-0000qO-6s for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:00:16 +0000 Message-ID: <79SopxCodIHDJwys@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:59:04 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes References: <194.465ee266.304cd424@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <194.465ee266.304cd424@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Debs. I was about to say, maybe it's a difference between US and UK - there is so much less sewing done here overall. I still boggle at the memory of finding fabric by the yard in WalMart in Connecticut! Adapting and decorating I can believe, making accessories from scratch, but for most people actual dressmaking is so ... girly! Jean Debloughcostumes@aol.com wrote >Never was a goth myself, but had lots of goth friends (and still have a >few!). Most of them wouldn't be caught dead making their own clothes - >adapting >maybe, but not actually making. > >There was a healthy band of good cheap 'alternative' clothing shops in >Newcastle and the surrounding area, and a few in Leeds, near where I went to >college. > >That said I always made my own clothes - and occasionally bits for friends - >largely cos I couldn't afford to buy new clothes. > >Adapting stuff from charity shops was always popular though! > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 14:18:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85IIqCw029402 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:18:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85IIOb0042704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:18:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85IILWS029054; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:18:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85III35029026 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:18:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1ECLXt-0002Uk-7v for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:18:17 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:17:03 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: [h-cost] pageants was 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050905091555.01d41008@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905091555.01d41008@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote > > >I don't know who or which group started the Living History thing in >England, or whether the term Living History came from the U.S. However, >I do remember going to a huge open air event in 1953, where history was >celebrated by people dressing up. I believe it was called a pageant, >and was all amateur, although the team organising it *must* have been >professional. These pageants have been happening in England since at >least the Middle Ages, and some say are the origins of theatre in England. > > >Suzi > > I was lucky enough one time to visit Benenden School - a very exclusive, old established private girls' school - and see round their costume cupboard. My mother got the invitation because she was an examiner for needlework GCSE (public examinations). They had real antique clothes, which had been donated by the girls' families for use in their annual pageant. They were obviously just thought of as something out of the attic, but because of the kind of families these girls came from, great-grandma's Presentation dress had been put away and not worn, not re-used, and pulled out in 1910 or 1920 for young Jemima to wear as an attendant to the May Queen, or whatever. Luckily at some point one of the teachers had realised what they had, and I think they got a grant to provide proper storage for them. It's one of those collections which is valuable because the items have been altered and worn and damaged, so it's there for people to handle and look at the insides, rather than to be strictly preserved. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 14:29:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85ITtDd029521 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:29:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85IT58t043785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:29:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85IT5n5033781; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:29:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j85ISx3S033709 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 11478 invoked from network); 5 Sep 2005 18:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Sep 2005 18:28:50 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905192531.01d30938@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 19:28:52 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing/Victorian tournament In-Reply-To: <431C7367.1090309@dandy.net> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <431B17C8.6000307@lavoltapress.com> <006901c5b1a7$4dce7d00$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> <431C7367.1090309@dandy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:33 05/09/2005, you wrote: >Hi, All. Regarding the SCA, since it takes it's atmosphere and >inspiration from the Victorian view of the Middle Ages, one can look >back to the late Victorian period to see an event scheduled by >gentlemen of leisure for a tournament to be ridden using original >and copied armor. IIRC, the event never happened due to rain, but I >do have photos of an armored jousting tournament being held in the >30s here in the Atlantic City NJ area in the old Convention Hall. I >assume that, due to the cost, it was some sort of traveling >entertainment that came to this area temporarily. There are no >closeup views of the folks involved, so I can't see clothing, but >due to the popularity of the Hollywood Medieval genre, I'm sure >there were some additional cast members around wearing some >costumes. Not exactly reenactment, so i don't think it counts, but... Mike T. The tournament in Victorian times that Mike T. refers to is the "Eglington Tournament" which took place (or not!) in 1839. Albert, Queen Victoria's husband, was very interested in the medieval period, as were a number of people in England - hence all the Victorian Gothic architecture. If you want to read more about it, there is a book called "The Knight and the Umbrella". I have some original costume designs/fashion plates from the tournament. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 14:34:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85IYoG7029564 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:34:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85IYQ9T044379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:34:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85IYPRw036242; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:34:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85IYM2j036216 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=ICbGpiFHEsOEShfwjLZKPbv92xwP1Gg8ZcjGNvWfaA2opvhIwKu9kdrK1gzXDcIX; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.122.191.172] (helo=[172.16.1.10]) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ECLnR-00049a-37 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:34:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@igc.org@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> References: <4319F25D.3010105@thibault.org> <20050904011445.NSJB20229.eastrmmtao02.cox.net@ANNESCOMPUTER> <4.3.1.2.20050905003741.02658cf0@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:34:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22c126ff1793201ce6e8ff3dd9e1ea54a31350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.122.191.172 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Early Reenactments X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 9:28 AM +0100 9/5/05, Suzi Clarke wrote: >I don't know who or which group started the Living History thing in >England, or whether the term Living History came from the U.S. >However, I do remember going to a huge open air event in 1953, where >history was celebrated by people dressing up. I believe it was >called a pageant, and was all amateur, although the team organising >it *must* have been professional. These pageants have been happening >in England since at least the Middle Ages, and some say are the >origins of theatre in England. I found some delightful photos at Stafford Past Tracks: http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.uk/engine/theme/default.asp?theme=311&text=0 of their 1913 "Millennary" celebrations on the 1,000th anniversary of the town's establishment. There's a lady dressed up as the 1913 vision of Aethelfleda, Lady of the Mercians, several pageant scenes and floats (including one commemorating Elizabeth I's visit in 1575 -- not a very good picture, unfortunately). At 12:59 AM -0700 9/5/05, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >> There are some "Revolutionary War" uniforms in collections >>that were made later for commemorations, perhaps 1876? While not >>necessarily reenactments, people were dressing up. > >People have been dressing up since before America was "invented". >This includes Fancy Dress events where folks like Queen Victoria and >Prince Consort Albert dressed up Medievally for a joust, and the >Czar of Russia and many of the Russian Court dressed up in >'historical' Russian costumes. I have an 1856 letter from our family papers that recounts a Washington's Birthday celebration in Philadelphia -- "Yesterday was a fine warm day, and we had quite an extensive parade of military although the streets were in a terrible condition. One Company of the "Minute Men" Capt. Berry crossed the river on the ice accompanied with music, a feat done only scince Gen. Washington performed it." Heck, they were doing Arthurian Revival tournaments in the 12th century, IIRC . -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 16:19:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85KJkdD030311 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:19:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85KJ6bW057381 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:19:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85KJ36d080952; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85KJ06R080932 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:19:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.91.238] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ECNQi-0000Q3-1O for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:19:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050905071717.026540c8@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050905071717.026540c8@mail.frys.com> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:18:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bcae768171f9d737f450a310b3db0e5119350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.91.238 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 7:20 AM -0700 9/5/05, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >>As far as I know the first reenactment group in the UK was the >>Sealed Knot, which started with an event staged in 1968 to >>publicise a book on the Battle of Edgehill by Brig. Peter Young. I >>first heard the term "living history" when the SK started >>demonstrating crafts etc. in a period encampment in addition to >>the battle displays. I think this was in the early 80s. > >The Living History Center, a function of the original Ren. Faire >here in California, had been going for a number of years by the >early 80s. In 1980 I worked one of their Ren. Faires to get the >money to move from Southern CA to Northern CA. The Living History Centre (note spelling) was incorporated as a non-profit corporation in California in May 1968. I have so far found no earlier usage of the term "living history", though the Parks Service was using the term within a few years in a pamphlet discussing costumed interpretation. (The first Patterson renaissance fair was in May 1963 in southern California, the first SCA party in May 1966, the first Patterson renaissance fair in northern California in 1967 -- it had SCA participation.) Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 16:34:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85KYW0e030468 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:34:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85KXxQo059325 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:33:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85KXwr7087179; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85KXsNf087153 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:33:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.86.236] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by smtpauth03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ECNf7-0008Tz-QP for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:33:54 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050905100133.7cvbhs8ypgm8cckw@www.goldsword.com> References: <20050905100133.7cvbhs8ypgm8cckw@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:33:36 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc2a70624b4796cd1b5a23fd347509d1b4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.86.236 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:01 AM -0500 9/5/05, Susan B. Farmer wrote: >Quoting otsisto : > >>-----Original Message----- >>SCA events in public parks draw non-costumed spectators too. >> >>************* >>Usually, these are refered to as demos, fighter practice or >>"recruitment"(for lack of a better word). >>"Events" are usually something on a much more grander scale and normally is >>not posted to the regular public. >> > >Our two big tourneys are held at the group came at a local state park -- >which is very much a public site. The spectators do watch the fighting >from a distance -- many ask questions and some stay and feast with us >(suitably garbed/tabarded of course). One year, one of the park >rangers came, stayed and later joined. Unless your event is held on >Private Property, if you at a visible part of State Park property >(which is where many of our events are held), you have spectators. Yes, but in the case of SCA events, these general public spectators are an unintended (and unavoidable) accident, not a primary, intended part of the plan. SCA events are not put on for the benefit/entertainment of a non-participatory audience, while many other re-creation societies do put on their events purposefully for the benefit/entertainment of a non-participatory audience. (If the same SCA event that attracts an audience on public property were held on private property, there would be no audience -- while the civil war battle re-enactment will have an invited audience regardless of whether held on public or private property.) In short, SCA events are not a performance for an audience. Renaissance fairs and nearly all battle re-enactment societies' events are. And this difference profoundly affects the nature of these events and re-creations. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 16:53:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85KrSsJ030686 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:53:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85Kr78f061487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:53:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85Kr5ci095051; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:53:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85KqvZ8094982 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:53:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18277 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 15:14:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 15:14:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing/Victorian tournament In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905192531.01d30938@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 5 Sep 2005, Suzi Clarke wrote: > "Eglington Tournament" which took place (or not!) in 1839. Albert, > Queen Victoria's husband, was very interested in the medieval period, > as were a number of people in England - hence all the Victorian Gothic > architecture. If you want to read more about it, there is a book > called "The Knight and the Umbrella". I have some original costume > designs/fashion plates from the tournament. Another good account is in Mark Girouard's "The Return to Camelot: Chivalry and the English Gentleman," which devotes a highly entertaining chapter to the Eglinton tournament. I frequently receommend the entire book as essential reading for SCA members and other medieval re-enactors -- it gives you a very good sense of just where many of our assumptions and impressions of the medieval period really come from, and how such disparate elements as the pre-Raphaelites, Victoria's costume balls, Gothic Revival architecture, and the Boy Scouts all fit into the thinking of the time. The Eglinton Tournament was a multi-day event; the procession and joust were to be open to the public, and this part is what got rained out. The participants, who were mostly guests of Lord Eglinton, went inside for a day or two to party, and then re-staged the tournament later (though most of the spectators were long gone). The ball and other events went as planned. Victoria and Albert were not involved in the Eglinton tournament; their Plantagent Costume Ball was a few years later. Girouard traces the various influences and events in a very readable fashion. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 17:12:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85LCQ6F030917 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:12:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85LC5Yp063794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 15:12:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85LC2j1003338; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 15:12:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85LBw9P003304 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 15:12:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-109.sonic.net [209.148.113.109]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85LBu97010371 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:11:57 -0700 Message-ID: <431CB4A2.7000000@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:12:02 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing References: <20050905100133.7cvbhs8ypgm8cckw@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The primary purpose of the Renaissance Faires I've been to, is to sell things. They're big crafts fairs with exotic trimmings. Granted, they tend to have a stage or two where people are performing. Granted, many individual participants, particpate only to dress up and do their acts, either on stage or in the "aisles," and have no interest in selling any material goods. Still, the primary purpose of the fair, the primary use of space, is for booths selling crafts and of course, food. I know many historic reenactment events also have booths where goods and food are sold. But in a Renaissance Faire sales is the primary purpose of the event. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > In short, SCA events are not a performance for an audience. > Renaissance fairs and nearly all battle re-enactment societies' events > are. And this difference profoundly affects the nature of these events > and re-creations. > > Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 19:08:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85N85jc031983 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:08:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85N7Rti076041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:07:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85N7O6a053096; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85N7MTu053063 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:07:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z31so2411206nzd for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:07:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=At+EJaj1wgxNlLorfhbBkxKgzH1LdwPPjjULDnywtxVOGcY3q7kzGv5O2uhQThUHv4KWkWlOWlTEGViu/KJ8db88I6jNi+/lmQjUoajlNzanG7YsXbMms9ASl2cZKrc51xPyESycsDZgwnH5MqdN5wGIeSoBhxhGjwXc8zpptu4= Received: by 10.37.2.35 with SMTP id e35mr5117587nzi; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 16:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.79.17 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:07:17 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j85N7MTu053063 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo >> I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of this book. ... By the >> way - how did you pay for your copy or did you get it in Italy? >I paid for it using a credit card when I ordered it through Abe Books. >The cost was dependant on the exchange rate that day. But with shipping I >paid about $100 for it. And it did come from Italy.... FWIW, I bought mine in July at the Pitti Palace (Florence, Italy) about US$60. If you're there picking up the book, might as well dash into the Gallerie di Costume & see EofT's gown up close. Actually, of the 3 Medici outfits, Garzia's is most stunning. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 19:19:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j85NJscS032070 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:19:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j85NJVQY077835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:19:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85NJUSq058059; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:19:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85Jjsow066429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:45:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-122.sonic.net [209.148.114.122]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j85JjqSr026040 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:45:53 -0700 Message-ID: <431CA076.5060401@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:45:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing) References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1063/Mon Sep 5 05:16:34 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Furthermore, I would think you'd have to be discovering something new (to modern eyes). For example, when the 20th person makes an 1850 chemise using original instructions and methods, and it's pretty much the same process for them as for the first 19 people, is it really experimental any more, regardless of the records kept? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > Experimental archaeology is a scientific concept that requires a > certain rigor in materials, environment, test design, documentation, > and such that is lacking in most cases. > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 20:27:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j860R1HI032470 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 20:27:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j860QUsr082004 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:26:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j860QOpn085280; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:26:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [216.148.227.85]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j860QKXK085225 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 ([204.127.197.119]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005090600261501400auskae>; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 00:26:15 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.119; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 00:26:14 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 00:26:14 +0000 Message-Id: <090620050026.19033.431CE2240000DEF600004A592200761438969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To clarify, I refered to "experiential" archaeology - that is learning things about the past by doing them. "Experimental" archeology is, as you say, something somewhat different. Melanie in Denver (Eirene, OP in the SCA) > >From: eirenetz@comcast.net > >Well, at a re-enactment weekend at Bent's Old Fort National Historic Site > >(SE Colorado) last month, > >the re-enactors that I spoke to indicated that most of their fellows had > >dabbled in the SCA, but > >since left for more authentic pastures. It seems likely that the SCA has, > >at least, served to get > >many people initially involved in experiential archeology. > > I realize that you are probably speaking somewhat facetiously, but I should > point out that re-enacting does not equal expermential archaeology. It's an > excellent outlet for it, but they aren't the same. Experimental archaeology > is a scientific concept that requires a certain rigor in materials, > environment, test design, documentation, and such that is lacking in most > cases. > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 21:32:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j861W4kX000417 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 21:32:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j861VX5f086096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j861VUPj011486; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:31:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j861VPjh011464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:31:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-84.sonic.net [209.148.113.84]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j861VOhe027659 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:31:25 -0700 Message-ID: <431CF172.3040007@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:31:30 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing) References: <090620050026.19033.431CE2240000DEF600004A592200761438969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <090620050026.19033.431CE2240000DEF600004A592200761438969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What makes it archaeology, as opposed to just learning a task or craft, even if one of the past? Fran eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: >To clarify, I refered to "experiential" archaeology - that is learning things about the past by doing them. "Experimental" archeology is, as you say, something somewhat different. > >Melanie in Denver >(Eirene, OP in the SCA) > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 5 21:58:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j861wLup000614 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 21:58:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j861vuFB087902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:57:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j861vq6v023080; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:57:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j861vm1e023006 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:57:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0IMD00CL5HG4FGUL@mta2.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 21:57:39 -0400 From: monica spence In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] more Eleonora of Toledo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All-- I'm new here and Eleonora of Toledo is one of my main interests (15 years of research and 364 pages into a manuscript about her...). AFAIK--That pic from the Hermitage, no matter what they say at the museum, is a misidentification. It is NOT the wife of Duke Cosimo I de Medici. It may be Virginia , who was Cosimo's daughter by Camilla Martelli, his 2nd wife, or just some unknown lady. I say this for several reasons... The dress is way too late for "our" Eleonora, who died in 1562. The portrait is circa 1560 or later. The doublet style is not in the inventory of her gowns. The person in the picture is not anywhere near 40, which was Eleonora's age when she died. Compare this portrait to the one(s) by Bronzino where she is so ill (TB complicated by malaria is what killed her in Dec. 1562) Alorri painted Francesco's Studiolo about 10 years after her death-- the permanently young and lovely Eleonora is idealized in the roundel on one side of the room. She is also wearing a style that is similar to the style that she always wore (the petticoat with attached sleeves and a surcoat over it) However the hair is a style much later than 1562, as it is drawn up and away from her face. The book you mention is wonderful. Tons of info. Best Regards-- Dame Catriona MacDuff -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Cin Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:07 PM To: h-cost Subject: Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo Subject: RE: [h-cost] New to me Eleonora of Toledo >> I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of this book. ... By the >> way - how did you pay for your copy or did you get it in Italy? >I paid for it using a credit card when I ordered it through Abe Books. >The cost was dependant on the exchange rate that day. But with shipping I >paid about $100 for it. And it did come from Italy.... FWIW, I bought mine in July at the Pitti Palace (Florence, Italy) about US$60. If you're there picking up the book, might as well dash into the Gallerie di Costume & see EofT's gown up close. Actually, of the 3 Medici outfits, Garzia's is most stunning. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 00:22:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j864MwGL001459 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 00:22:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j864MEIK032678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:22:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864MBRa086880; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.176] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864M8fk086850 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CA0542310 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:22:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B0438D47D for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:22:07 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:22:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20050905100133.7cvbhs8ypgm8cckw@www.goldsword.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The impression I had gotten from the email was that there were non-costumed individuals participating in SCA event not passers by. Apologies for the misunderstanding. De -----Original Message----- > SCA events in public parks draw non-costumed spectators too. > Quoting otsisto : > ************* > Usually, these are refered to as demos, fighter practice or > "recruitment"(for lack of a better word). > "Events" are usually something on a much more grander scale and normally is > not posted to the regular public. > Our two big tourneys are held at the group came at a local state park -- which is very much a public site. The spectators do watch the fighting from a distance -- many ask questions and some stay and feast with us (suitably garbed/tabarded of course). One year, one of the park rangers came, stayed and later joined. Unless your event is held on Private Property, if you at a visible part of State Park property (which is where many of our events are held), you have spectators. Jerusha ----- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 00:23:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j864N1Nj001462 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 00:23:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j864ME0J032677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:22:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864MBBi086881; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:22:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mo1.socket.net (mo1.socket.net [216.106.88.176] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864M8hV086860 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:22:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by mo1.socket.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 902CE42498 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:22:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 45C7AD47D for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:22:08 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:22:06 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Sharon, basically what I was trying to say. De Brain fogged -----Original Message----- >Our two big tourneys are held at the group came at a local state park -- >which is very much a public site. The spectators do watch the fighting >from a distance -- many ask questions and some stay and feast with us >(suitably garbed/tabarded of course). One year, one of the park >rangers came, stayed and later joined. Unless your event is held on >Private Property, if you at a visible part of State Park property >(which is where many of our events are held), you have spectators. Yes, but in the case of SCA events, these general public spectators are an unintended (and unavoidable) accident, not a primary, intended part of the plan. SCA events are not put on for the benefit/entertainment of a non-participatory audience, while many other re-creation societies do put on their events purposefully for the benefit/entertainment of a non-participatory audience. (If the same SCA event that attracts an audience on public property were held on private property, there would be no audience -- while the civil war battle re-enactment will have an invited audience regardless of whether held on public or private property.) In short, SCA events are not a performance for an audience. Renaissance fairs and nearly all battle re-enactment societies' events are. And this difference profoundly affects the nature of these events and re-creations. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 00:41:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j864frQE001557 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 00:41:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j864eo6P038947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864emqR093619; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f25.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864ejZG093570 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:40:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 21:40:40 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.201 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 04:40:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.201] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509060200.j861vr5h023087@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 23:40:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2005 04:40:40.0634 (UTC) FILETIME=[226151A0:01C5B29D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE:Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieva X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: eirenetz@comcast.net >To clarify, I refered to "experiential" archaeology - that is learning >things about the past by doing >them. "Experimental" archeology is, as you say, something somewhat >different. Looking back, I see that you are entirely correct. I misread your message. I apologize. (I'm used to seeing messages with people referring to re-enactment as experiment archaeology, and my expection added in the other letters) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 00:57:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j864vuDE001655 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 00:57:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j864vTvI044558 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:57:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864vRFw099851; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:57:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j864vOCW099821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:57:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j864vOCm001517 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 21:57:24 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] more Eleonora of Toledo Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:06:16 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Hi All-- > > I'm new here and Eleonora of Toledo is one of my main interests > (15 years of > research and 364 pages into a manuscript about her...). > > AFAIK--That pic from the Hermitage, no matter what they say at the museum, > is a misidentification. It is NOT the wife of Duke Cosimo I de Medici. It > may be Virginia , who was Cosimo's daughter by Camilla Martelli, his 2nd > wife, or just some unknown lady. > snip< > Best Regards-- > Dame Catriona MacDuff > Fascinating! Manuscript about Eleonora of Toledo? Do say more! I would love to know more about her if someone else would do the research! Next: Inventory of her gowns? Has it been translated? Where? I've been collecting inventories lately. Wanda > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 01:08:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8658guq001729 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8658Ic7048255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8658HO8004168; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8658FfX004150 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j86589mU001718 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:08:09 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86589jL013333 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:08:10 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905072103.026552e0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:21:43 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: Milia Davenport (was Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <20050905141019.13039.qmail@web51314.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050905002309.034cd008@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Many of the brasses are not rubbings or photographs, Thanks. I'd forgotten about them. Do you know if these were taken from actual rubbings? CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 01:30:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j865UKLn001855 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:30:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j865TlFE055026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:29:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j865Tjgw011770; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j865TgY1011750 for ; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j865TqxH007353 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:29:52 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j865TYfg424174 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:29:40 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050905222200.0253af98@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:24:37 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing In-Reply-To: <431CB4A2.7000000@lavoltapress.com> References: <20050905100133.7cvbhs8ypgm8cckw@www.goldsword.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >The primary purpose of the Renaissance Faires I've been to, is to sell >things. They're big crafts fairs with exotic trimmings. Granted, they >tend to have a stage or two where people are performing. Granted, many >individual participants, particpate only to dress up and do their acts, >either on stage or in the "aisles," Referred to as "streets" by participants > and have no interest in selling any material goods. Still, the primary > purpose of the fair, the primary use of space, is for booths selling > crafts and of course, food. > >I know many historic reenactment events also have booths where goods and >food are sold. But in a Renaissance Faire sales is the primary purpose of >the event. Yes. A craft fair with stage shows and costumed participants and varying attempts at history thrown in. Art and wine festivals, and the various street craft fairs, do the same things except for the costume and history parts. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 03:43:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j867h223030626 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 03:43:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j867gaVX071839 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:42:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j867gWBO061652; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:42:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j867gTd4061622 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:42:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.111 (rwcrwbc17.attbi.com[204.127.197.127]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005090607422801300avp4ke>; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:42:28 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.111; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:42:27 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:42:27 +0000 Message-Id: <090620050742.641.431D48630006531D000002812205889116969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have to admit that I'm following a precedent set by others. I don't really make the distinction, but I suppose that one could. This is learning, but deeper than simple task or craft. An important part of the experience is to understand how it *felt* to be a person then and there. It's hard to pin a name on what we're all doing. "Re-creation", which is what the SCA is said to do, implies that we're just making it all up, which isn't inaccurate, but is a sweeping generalization. The fact is that there are a lot of folks in the SCA who are doing what the "re-enactment" community would call "serious" work. The "re-enactors" that I met at Bent's Old Fort - most certainly a small cross-section - seem to be re-creating in a SCA-like manner, albeit with greater restrictions on time, place, etc. My feeling is that "experiential archaeology" sums it up pretty well, and bundles groups doing related things into what should be a cooperative community. At Bent's, I was doing some casual surveys of how people were dealing with period clothing - wool over linen or cotton - in 100-degree heat. I'm currently working on worsted wool over linen for GFDs, and was seeing if their experience was similar to Robin's, who once opined that the combination was cooler at Lilies than other combinations of fibers. I detected a certain lack of credibility once I had to admit that my arena is the SCA. Although I'm aware of those biases, I never fail to be dissapointed by them. BTW, the Mexican war-era military coats that the soldiers were wearing were woolen; one of the soldiers wore a linen shirt, one wore a cotton shirt. They said that they were very hot, but felt like they'd acclimatized somewhat after being on-site for 48 hours. They also felt like they'd lost a lot of weight - probably water. ;-) Melanie in Denver (Eirene, OP in the SCA) > What makes it archaeology, as opposed to just learning a task or craft, > even if one of the past? > > Fran > > > eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > > >To clarify, I refered to "experiential" archaeology - that is learning things > about the past by doing them. "Experimental" archeology is, as you say, > something somewhat different. > > > >Melanie in Denver > >(Eirene, OP in the SCA) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 03:50:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j867oVrP031303 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 03:50:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j867o2wK072258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:50:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j867o1VV064149; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:50:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j867nwLr064082 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:50:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eirenetz@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.119 (rwcrwbc80.asp.att.net[204.127.197.180]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005090607495201400f6k44e>; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:49:52 +0000 Received: from [67.176.125.129] by 204.127.197.119; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:49:51 +0000 From: eirenetz@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieva Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:49:51 +0000 Message-Id: <090620050749.7093.431D4A1F000C8E1A00001BB52200760180969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWlyZW5ldHpAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1064/Mon Sep 5 15:05:55 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No apologies required! In print, the two terms appear virtually identical. BTW, I'm going to be in Tulsa business-tripping for two weeks beginning on Sunday. Suggestions? I'm interested in SCA things, but anything having to do with historic/ethnic/tribal clothing has appeal. Melanie in Denver (Eirene, OP in the SCA) > >From: eirenetz@comcast.net > >To clarify, I refered to "experiential" archaeology - that is learning > >things about the past by doing > >them. "Experimental" archeology is, as you say, something somewhat > >different. > > Looking back, I see that you are entirely correct. I misread your message. > I apologize. > > (I'm used to seeing messages with people referring to re-enactment as > experiment archaeology, and my expection added in the other letters) > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 08:51:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86CptEh003549 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:51:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86CpMQT093247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 06:51:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86CpI1A068940; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 06:51:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86CpDng068901 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 06:51:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0IME00C1EBOFJ127@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:50:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:50:37 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] more Eleonora of Toledo In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1065/Tue Sep 6 01:20:15 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1065/Tue Sep 6 01:20:15 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The manuscript is a heavily researched historical novel.... The inventory is in the book previously mentioned. Catriona -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Wanda Pease Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 1:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] more Eleonora of Toledo > > Hi All-- > > I'm new here and Eleonora of Toledo is one of my main interests > (15 years of > research and 364 pages into a manuscript about her...). > > AFAIK--That pic from the Hermitage, no matter what they say at the museum, > is a misidentification. It is NOT the wife of Duke Cosimo I de Medici. It > may be Virginia , who was Cosimo's daughter by Camilla Martelli, his 2nd > wife, or just some unknown lady. > snip< > Best Regards-- > Dame Catriona MacDuff > Fascinating! Manuscript about Eleonora of Toledo? Do say more! I would love to know more about her if someone else would do the research! Next: Inventory of her gowns? Has it been translated? Where? I've been collecting inventories lately. Wanda > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 09:06:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86D6Y6A003730 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86D6GXo097477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86D6ELc075693; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86D6B9f075634 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:06:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr12.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.31]) by mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IME0088BCE0CHY3@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:06:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.35] (Forwarded-For: [199.20.68.40]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:06:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:06:00 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Experimental Archaeology In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <200509060200.j861vr5h023087@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a question regarding 'Experimental' archeology - If - say- I am working on a pair of turnsole shoes and I 're-invent the wheel' - figure out something that many others have already figured out - but the info is new to me. Is this 'Experimental' archeology? Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Carlson > >From: eirenetz@comcast.net > >To clarify, I refered to "experiential" archaeology - that is learning things about the past by doing them. "Experimental" archeology is, as you say, something somewhat different. > > Looking back, I see that you are entirely correct. I misread your > message. I apologize. > Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 09:41:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86DfU6B003999 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86Df7nV004588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:41:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Df5fa093005; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:41:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Df1Eu092904 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:41:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id 6.e6.70cfc8b0 (4394) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:40:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:40:55 EDT Subject: Subject: [h-cost] Early Reenactments To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And have you seen some of the pictures from Victoria and Alberts fancy dress parties?? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 10:43:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86EhCkb004689 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:43:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86Eftwi009465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:41:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86EfiSP028910; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:41:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-61.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Efcnp028796 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:41:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22483B5FF for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:41:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <431DAAB2.9070600@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:41:54 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Tulsa References: <090620050749.7093.431D4A1F000C8E1A00001BB52200760180969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <090620050749.7093.431D4A1F000C8E1A00001BB52200760180969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO eirenetz@comcast.net wrote: > > BTW, I'm going to be in Tulsa business-tripping for two weeks beginning on Sunday. Suggestions? I'm interested in SCA things, but anything having to do with historic/ethnic/tribal clothing has appeal. > Go to the Woolaroc ranch one weekend. They have a fabulous collection of native american artifacts, including clothing and other textiles, in their 19th century museum. Lovely place to tour, too. It's about an hour out of town so you will need a car, and should plan most of the day for the trip. There is a 'lace museum' downtown at one of the malls, more of an extended shop display. I haven't been yet, but I'm told it's worth an hour if you're into lace. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 10:55:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86EtTmR004795 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:55:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86Eshsb010933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:54:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Esfm8037572; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:54:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86EsbvN037464 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:54:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:54:31 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:54:19 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: belted houppelandes X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another factor may be that if your gown fabric is relatively heavy (as seems to be the case from how it is depicted) and the gown is relatively flared (ditto), then the change in volume of fabric between the upper and lower edges of the belt may also help keep it from slipping downwards. Heather ============================ This is what worked for me when I made a Houppy many years ago. It has a *very* full body and while the belt settled just a bit, it then stayed put and never reached my waist. The belt was snug, but not uncomfortably so. This houppy was a full circle and made from drapery fabric. The belt was stiffened with mundane belt blank material. Hope that helps, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 11:41:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86Ff74k005434 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:41:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86FehIj016591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Feabv072665; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:40:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86FeQiv072486 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:40:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr12.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.31]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IME000N0JIVWHGD@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.35] (Forwarded-For: [199.20.68.40]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:40:07 -0400 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:40:07 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: belted houppelandes In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the book by Jean Hunnisett (sp?) - she shows that the belt is attached in place on the Houp. As I am VERY hourglass-y shaped I have found that any kind of belt on my torso will 'fall' to my natural waist. (SIGH). I guess I'll be sewing my belt in place - with an invisible 'buckle'. Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- From: Catherine Kinsey > Another factor may be that if your gown fabric is relatively heavy > (as seems to be the case from how it is depicted) and the gown is > relatively flared (ditto), then the change in volume of fabric > between the upper and lower edges of the belt may also help keep > it from slipping downwards. > > Heather > ============================ > This is what worked for me when I made a Houppy many years ago. > It has a *very* full body and while the belt settled just a bit, it then > stayedput and never reached my waist. The belt was snug, but not > uncomfortably so. This houppy was a full circle and made from > draperyfabric. The belt was stiffened with mundane belt blank > material. > Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 11:44:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86Fi6tt005470 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86FhW3g017159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:43:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86FhVge075267; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:43:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86FhOqY075156 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:43:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.147] (pm5-147.eos.net [205.133.149.147]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j86FhK8W026282 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:43:21 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:33:55 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509032222.j83MMoIx009675@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: Scanned by EOS.Net Mailserver on 205.133.149.17 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: goth dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd like to thank Jacqueline Johnson for that post and links. You learn something new every day! This is not a style of dressing that I'm familiar with -- I'm sure my lifestyle and hours don't match up with those of people who do. I have to say I find those outfits funny, although not in an offended sort of way. Whatever! But I'd like to see some for myself. It looks like it takes a lot of time and effort to look that way, and I'd love to see it close up. The look reminds me of a girl I saw when the Mobile Skatepark Series came to town. She was selling Yoohoo, and she had hair that was a combination of cherry red and flat black, a pierced lower lip, strangely pierced ears, clunky black shoes, Egyptian-inspired black eye makeup, a tight-fitting minidress... I don't know what you call it. Punk-goth-retro? I realized that the only kind of person who would look good in that was a person who's absolutely gorgeous to begin with, which this girl was. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 11:48:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86Fm8PP005512 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:48:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86FlXL1017866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:47:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86FlJv2078502; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:47:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Fl5Pn078292 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:47:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16764 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:47:04 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] new Pride and Prejudice movie Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:47:03 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] new Pride and Prejudice movie Thread-Index: AcWxVgcmxiLDL5V4TWm7WR41P9gxbQBm4mYw From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j86Fl5Pn078292 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've read(think it was the Sept issue of Vogue)that although the novel was published in the 1810's, Austen wrote it circa 1797(there are still some subtle hints in the published version that history experts picked up on that Austen choose not to change or missed that place it in 1797 or within a year or two), so the decision was made, costume-wise to set this movie version in 1797-8. The costumers went for a homemade feel for the costumes, especially for the Bennet sisters and the less affluent locals. Older women, like Mrs. Bennet and Lady Catherine de Burgh, would have questioned the propriety of the new high-waisted look(after over 150 years of stiff corsets and a relatively normal waist level, many women were)and kept to their corsets and older fashions. For a long time, girls had been brought up that loose or no corsets meant at least laziness and more commonly loose morals, so older women would have clung to older fashions much more than today. Even Mary Wollstonecraft, the female rebel of all rebels at the time, owned and wore a very traditional corset. So all those historical romance heroines rebelling against their corsets and stays are definitely a modern conceit. >From the few pics and online preview, I'm guessing though, as with Sense and Sensibility, the costume designers were ordered to remove several authentic underlayers (take a look at the fashion plates from Heideloff's Gallery of Fashion to see what I mean), to make the more fashionable female characters fall more in line with today's narrow arrow aesthetic. Jenny Bevan, the costume designer for S&S complained that she and her crew had to remove several underlayers of the female characters costumes to meet today's aesthetic as some unnamed powers-that-be, insisted the original authentic designs made the actresses look too fat. Northanger Abbey(a BBC production of almost 20 years ago)is another DVD to check out for the fashions of the last few years of the 18th century. A republication of at least some of the plates in color from Heideloff's "Gallery of Fashion"(are you listening Dover Publications?)is long overdue. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 12:02:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86G2gYH005680 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:02:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86G22q8021883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:02:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86G0oXl089282; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:01:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86G0TiM088996 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:00:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from dm21.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B5A40493 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:00:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm21 Received: from mailweb35.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm21.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm21.4317aafb.2ce66 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:00:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5DHb0cv8JOGQIAAAAB,cef24034aea52b27e34e494fd1f69b35 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:00:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.71.3] Message-Id: <20050906090028.14716174@dm21.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The Brisbane Mediaeval Fayre here in Brisbane, Queensland, was started by the Queensland Folk Federation, and run by them for many years. I used to hang around with some of the 'folkies' for a while in the mid 80's, and there was a definite 'hippie' vibe around the folkies then. Hippie mostly seems to have evolved into 'alternative' now, at least as far as Australia goes, AFAIK. Joannah --- Lavolta Press wrote: Renaissance Faires, BTW, are another outgrowth of the "hippie" movement. _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 12:04:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86G4s0f005723 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:04:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86G4ATR022517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:04:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86G3iXQ091371; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:04:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j86G21gh090157 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:03:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 71133 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2005 16:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Sep 2005 16:01:55 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050906165659.01d2a7c0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:01:54 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: belted houppelandes In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1066/Tue Sep 6 05:42:41 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 16:40 06/09/2005, you wrote: >In the book by Jean Hunnisett (sp?) - she shows that the belt is >attached in place on the Houp. > >As I am VERY hourglass-y shaped I have found that any kind of belt >on my torso will 'fall' to my natural waist. (SIGH). > >I guess I'll be sewing my belt in place - with an invisible 'buckle'. I made my houppelande from the Hunnisett pattern - it has an 8 yard hem, (but then I am fat.) My belt slides through two tight "modern" belt loops the same colour as the belt, and sewn under the arms, so they don't show. My spare tyre helps to keep it in position, but it is quite heavy, as it is handwoven silk, with metal belt ends, and a purse looped over it. I think the belt loops do the most to keep it in place. On houppelandes I have made for others, the belt has a loop just under the buckle placing, where it doesn't show. Also I have caught the belt down just behind the buckle, again where it does not show. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 12:29:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86GTqSJ006008 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86GTNvF030783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:29:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86GTEqx012962; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:29:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86GT1GG012794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:29:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-156.sonic.net [209.148.113.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86GSxgk025928 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:29:00 -0700 Message-ID: <431DC3D0.4050205@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:29:04 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Experimental Archaeology References: <200509060200.j861vr5h023087@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'd say it's a personally rewarding and personally educational learning experience--but not archaeology. Doing something, finding out how it feels to you, learning something, and even teaching it to others does not make it a science. On the other hand, those are all very valid and rewarding activities. There's no need to elevate them by sticking a fancy label on them. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com purplkat@optonline.net wrote: >I have a question regarding 'Experimental' archeology - > >If - say- I am working on a pair of turnsole shoes and I 're-invent the wheel' - figure out something that many others have already figured out - but the info is new to me. > >Is this 'Experimental' archeology? > >Katheryne > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 13:01:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86H165o006352 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:01:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86H09RM035653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:00:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Gx3WV037337; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:59:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86GwTk2036879 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:58:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-156.sonic.net [209.148.113.156]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86GwQJU006175 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:58:27 -0700 Message-ID: <431DCAB7.4030204@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:58:31 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Experimental Archaeology (was 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing) References: <090620050742.641.431D48630006531D000002812205889116969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <090620050742.641.431D48630006531D000002812205889116969B0A020A9D070A@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think that how you feel about a task in the here and now, is any guarantee of how someone else in another era felt about it. Living without flush toilets is a different experience when you know in the back of your mind that you can return to modern conveniences any time you want. I'd also argue that people clearly feel different ways about different things, physically and emotionally, even in the here and now. (For example, take any discussion on whether modern brassieres are comfortable.) You were talking about heat tolerance of woolen Mexican war era coats. From my observation, individuals vary significantly in how well they tolerate heat. Although, if I really wanted to research heat tolerance in modern people, I'd read some modern medical studies. If I wanted to study how the soldiers of the Mexican war felt about their uniforms, I'd research period written records. For historic periods where most people were literate, as academic research into how they _felt_, that makes more sense.than imitating what they did. I think historic recreation/reenactment is a fine activity, and that those are perfectly good terms for it. What I see is that the recreation/reenactment community feels the professional communities of historians and archaeologists don't respect them enough. So they're looking for fancier names for what they do. However, that's not going to get any more respect from academics, probably less if they feel their terms are being misapplied. There's nothing wrong with having a personally rewarding and personally educational hobby. There's no need to claim it's a science, or a profession, when it's not. And there's no way for people in any given organization who view themselves as "serious" reenactors, to differentiate themselves to outsiders, from more casual participants. But why worry about what other people think, if what you do is rewarding to you? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > An important part of the experience is to understand how it *felt* to be a person then and there. > >It's hard to pin a name on what we're all doing. "Re-creation", which is what the SCA is said to do, implies that we're just making it all up, which isn't inaccurate, but is a sweeping generalization. The fact is that there are a lot of folks in the SCA who are doing what the "re-enactment" community would call "serious" work. The "re-enactors" that I met at Bent's Old Fort - most certainly a small cross-section - seem to be re-creating in a SCA-like manner, albeit with greater restrictions on time, place, etc. My feeling is that "experiential archaeology" sums it up pretty well, and bundles groups doing related things into what should be a cooperative community. > >At Bent's, I was doing some casual surveys of how people were dealing with period clothing - wool over linen or cotton - in 100-degree heat. I'm currently working on worsted wool over linen for GFDs, and was seeing if their experience was similar to Robin's, who once opined that the combination was cooler at Lilies than other combinations of fibers. I detected a certain lack of credibility once I had to admit that my arena is the SCA. Although I'm aware of those biases, I never fail to be dissapointed by them. > >BTW, the Mexican war-era military coats that the soldiers were wearing were woolen; one of the soldiers wore a linen shirt, one wore a cotton shirt. They said that they were very hot, but felt like they'd acclimatized somewhat after being on-site for 48 hours. They also felt like they'd lost a lot of weight - probably water. ;-) > >Melanie in Denver >(Eirene, OP in the SCA) > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 13:47:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86HlWpZ006710 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:47:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86HgZdg041126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:46:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86HTB26061099; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:29:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86HSjgJ060810 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:28:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EChFT-000Lep-6m for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:28:43 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:27:17 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Pride and Prejudice movie References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "Abel, Cynthia" wrote > >>From the few pics and online preview, I'm guessing though, as with Sense >and Sensibility, the costume designers were ordered to remove several >authentic underlayers (take a look at the fashion plates from >Heideloff's Gallery of Fashion to see what I mean), to make the more >fashionable female characters fall more in line with today's narrow >arrow aesthetic. Jenny Bevan, the costume designer for S&S complained >that she and her crew had to remove several underlayers of the female >characters costumes to meet today's aesthetic as some unnamed >powers-that-be, insisted the original authentic designs made the >actresses look too fat. > >Northanger Abbey(a BBC production of almost 20 years ago)is another DVD >to check out for the fashions of the last few years of the 18th century. > >A republication of at least some of the plates in color from Heideloff's >"Gallery of Fashion"(are you listening Dover Publications?)is long >overdue. > >Cindy Abel > > Somewhere, the idea seems to have arisen that Empire line was slim, when in fact it's really quite puffy, compared with the corseted line that went before. It's just that it's columnar. I suspect the aesthetic of the day was as my husband once said about early medieval unbelted styles - "fits where it touches, and whether it's attractive or not depends on *where* it touches". The column may be wide, but the point is not to have bulges. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 13:50:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86HoBSL006749 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86HngJa041933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:49:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86HnWFk076911; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:49:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86HnOht076739 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:49:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z31so2562721nzd for ; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:49:11 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=SxSJQk0hqkXKQ9YHGtwt9zZAPEEbESZEjPPgIg9+LkgLmYFse1MrDRc9Qn7guxBibjMj6ZzMbcoKbNhGI/+r/FlOapfbMcc14C26xdHvh+4pyHnBd1bjlDiJEyQlQ9Ol1NqxYIQQ8K0KzLTbYX4j5lJGo5zwf069LYUA+IvZ51I= Received: by 10.36.148.16 with SMTP id v16mr5921033nzd; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.79.17 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:49:11 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: RE: [h-cost] more Eleonora of Toledo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j86HnOht076739 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Subject: RE: [h-cost] more Eleonora of Toledo >Fascinating! Manuscript about Eleonora of Toledo? Do say more! I would >love to know more about her if someone else would do the research! I'll take the 2nd Q: transcribed, correlated, & published, not translated. This latter is actually a feature not a bug as the translation in the rest of the text was done by a non-native English speaker. >... Next: >Inventory of her gowns? Has it been translated? Where? I've been >collecting inventories lately. >Wanda Check the h-cost archives. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 14:01:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86I1Lmt006839 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:01:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86I0URf043296 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:00:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86HxnMO085032; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:59:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f28.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.38]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86HxWTB084704 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:59:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:59:27 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:59:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509061547.j86FhvHA075605@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:59:26 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2005 17:59:27.0019 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8BB4FB0:01C5B30C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: purplkat@optonline.net >I have a question regarding 'Experimental' archeology - >If - say- I am working on a pair of turnsole shoes and I 're-invent the >wheel' - figure out >something that many others have already figured out - but the info is new >to me. >Is this 'Experimental' archeology? It may depend on what you've discovered. For instance, one of the questions that keeps getting asked about medieval shoes is what are the welts for. The usual answer is tohhelp make them watertight (probably since welts in certain water containers serve that purpose). Anyone who's ever worn leather shoes will tell you that unless you add anachronistic chemicals, or a ludicrous amount of grease, they aren't going to be water "tight", which shoots a hole in an hypothesis. The second hypothesis is that they are there to help protect the thread in the seam from "grinning", and they do that adequately, even with modern materials. However, if you use the correct pit tanned leather for the sole, and welts, and on a period shaped last, you quickly discover that the purpose of the welt is to extend the sole to the footprint of the foot. They are a part of the sole. This is only apparent though if you are using leather that reacts in the same way as the medieval leather does (and modern leathers do not) - because medieval sole leather is stiffer (when dry) than the modern stuff. When it's wet, however, that same sole material becomes flexible enough that some of the sewing techniques that go back to the Romans become possible, using the tools available. It would be better, however, if this research was published someplace where people could actually access it, and make their own tests :) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 14:14:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86IE85C006964 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:14:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86IDR7T044918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86ID9dB095808; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:13:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f6.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86ICki8095491 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 12:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:12:40 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:12:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509061547.j86FhvHA075605@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:12:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2005 18:12:40.0431 (UTC) FILETIME=[91A45FF0:01C5B30E] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tulsa X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: eirenetz@comcast.net >BTW, I'm going to be in Tulsa business-tripping for two weeks beginning on >Sunday. >Suggestions? I'm interested in SCA things, but anything having to >do with >historic/ethnic/tribal clothing has appeal. As mentioned, Woolaroc is worth a visit (it's about an hour north of town near Bartlesville), and the the International Linen Registry Museum and Gift Shop, which is currently displaying "all sorts of really cool clothing from around the world" according to the lady I just spoke to on the phone (they normally have some sort of special display running, besides the regular linen stuff). It's not huge, but it's interesting (it's at the Promenade Mall, 41st and Yale). Gilcrease museum has a lot of ethnic stuff, but I'm not sure what they've got on display right now. The Philbrook doesn't have much in the way of costumes aside from old paintings (currently their special is selected works of Whistler). The only major SCA things going on for the next two weeks are fighter practices and a "needleworkers" (if you're interested in these, contact me off list). There is an event fairly close on the 17th, close enough for a day trip (if you're interested in these, contact me off list). The same day is the Tulsa Scottish Games. I hope there's something interesting for you. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 16:17:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86KHSqs008055 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:17:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86KGqWZ061922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:16:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86KGX0v098327; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:16:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from nova.ceas.rochester.edu (root@nova.ceas.rochester.edu [128.151.162.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86K4pN0089446 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:05:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from williams@ece.rochester.edu) Received: from [128.151.160.82] (csb421mac1.ee.rochester.edu [128.151.160.82]) by nova.ceas.rochester.edu (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j86K4OIf026888; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:04:23 -0400 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com From: RuthAnn Williams Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] fabric source(s) wanted X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, I am looking for a source to purchase some good quality black crepe (preferably crinkle and at a reasonable price) for a mourning veil. Or if there are other ideas for fabric to used as a mourning veil, I am certainly open to suggestions. Also I am looking for a source for white cotton netting for a bonnet ruffle and lining the drape. Doesn't seem to be readily carried around here. With that said, if I wanted to special order their minimum required amount, I could, but that would be far more than what I would need. Thanks in advance, Ruth Williams Rochester, NY williams@ece.rochester.edu _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 17:39:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86Ld9tI008881 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86LcU5t076443 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:38:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86LbRwG063534; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:38:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86LbLer063389 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:37:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id c51so934514rne for ; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KXVDbswnG5qRvDzt2TWwTepov+6nVZDgGADoWTzxYjJsSOIT6qBvUcHdZTGGfcPSwlbHNNRcvo17VtMATCh9aWK5yuGxcpszTEJByxKpMMwJOrv6o0oDBDh3bFjVdgvNRo2RusogYth7WVD+P30qSv8n8T4/TPWw61xkutwABmE= Received: by 10.38.79.29 with SMTP id c29mr743911rnb; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.38.101.56 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc266050906143763f9431e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:37:10 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source(s) wanted In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j86LbLer063389 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would suggest a silk organza, or organdy. Very sheer, with nice drape. Contact Mulberry Silks in Chapel Hill, NC. And then there is on-line... Hancocks and Jo-Annes (generally won't have this, but they may have a synthetic) Mari / Bridgette > Hi, > > I am looking for a source to purchase some good quality black crepe > (preferably crinkle and at a reasonable price) for a mourning veil. > Or if there are other ideas for fabric to used as a mourning veil, I > am certainly open to suggestions. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 18:30:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86MUfZU009435 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:30:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86MUFr2083254 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:30:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86MTAS4004284; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.180]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j86MRnJR002999 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 21363 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2005 22:27:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=x9+cpZGZ53nojPQaMWZ4lM9A/XWSAMKOJ/1owyD5vn/B34vQ8GTmwCiWwgsh6qaHfjU8iHeytHDIYsgzZezIM4i2aDiZNCjTnH/DuVQ4rxnleqH3Dytb70W95ZayB5oa+qS2exLzDcRNofYMhxBnqVsxpzvS2kixFULc4ILTlWs= ; Message-ID: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 23:27:36 BST Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 23:27:36 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Subject: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello all I am attempting a reconstruction of the 'effigy' corset and am toying with various types of stiffening. Has anyone attempted to use the kind of 'bamboo' used to make those cheap roll up blinds? I understand they may have some kind of treatment but thought they would be a cheap and relatively stiff type of modern reed boning. Thanks, Katherine ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 19:09:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86N9vAd009729 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:09:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86N9Qiw090136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:09:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86N95C8033212; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:09:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86N8k3R032933 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:08:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id 6.11.4cd73e6e (16335) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:08:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <11.4cd73e6e.304f7b77@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:08:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] new Pride and Prejudice movie To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/6/2005 1:32:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk writes: Somewhere, the idea seems to have arisen that Empire line was slim, when in fact it's really quite puffy, compared with the corseted line that went before. Of course many women still wore corsets...most I'd say. A corset will always make one look slimmer from the front or back but not from the side. Fortunately one's arms are there to hide this fact. Girls with "good" figures look good in any silhouette of course. Anyway, a large girl can look quite nice in the Empire line....it's the boob emphasis I suppose. And they don't have the little girl look you get with this silhouette so often with skinny girls. The semi-hidden rest of the figure, only revealed when the subject is moving or wind blown, is very sexy in any size. INHO....of course. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 19:27:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86NRq9e009937 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:27:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86NRUgY092556 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:27:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86NRR0r046096; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:27:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j86NRNUX046053 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:27:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 554 invoked from network); 6 Sep 2005 16:27:19 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 545, pid: 546, t: 1.5890s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1062 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 6 Sep 2005 16:27:18 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050906162552.0317f900@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:27:18 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening In-Reply-To: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:27 PM 9/6/2005, you wrote: >Hello all > >I am attempting a reconstruction of the 'effigy' >corset and am toying with various types of stiffening. >Has anyone attempted to use the kind of 'bamboo' used >to make those cheap roll up blinds? I understand they >may have some kind of treatment but thought they would >be a cheap and relatively stiff type of modern reed >boning. > >Thanks, >Katherine If the blinds are actually bamboo, you may not want to use them. Bamboo when it breaks often is very sharp. You would be much better off using the reed used for basketry. You can buy it by the pound. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 19:51:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86NpJoN010117 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:51:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86Non1o094900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:50:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86NolhI060443; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:50:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j86NoiWj060356 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sismith42@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 75726 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Sep 2005 23:50:39 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=VPc8T9mkP8wPM9obMmcya1JvtTpNYs9Uh28aXcjMKUvVBwVi8Bi1eN30/yCAWTnojBoQIn8N9o9rg2UuDeM2c8S72vGN0k43pWRmdzIzCmGRmDPfSOlDWjSixqa3NBUaqjpKoDApZqW4nBYY/av76Ld/aEUPHoebkdjTmWeiWUU= ; Message-ID: <20050906235039.75724.qmail@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.41.225.7] by web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:50:38 PDT Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:50:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephanie Smith To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509061803.j86I0H0c085475@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Regency corsets was Pride & Prejudice X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All, I thought that women *did* wear corsets in the Regency period, it's just that the look went from firm natural-waist to a soft empire waist...? Some examples: http://www.chs.org/textiles/found_acc.htm http://www.manchestergalleries.org/costume/catalogue/Display.php?irn=13491&QueryPage=/costume/catalogue/index.php http://www.heyerlist.org/garderobe/images/1819%20kyoto%20inst%20stays.jpg (If these links are too long, scroll down on this comercial site: http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/regency.htm) Stephanie ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 19:56:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j86NuP2c010157 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:56:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j86Nu6R1095423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:56:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86Nu0XE063351; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:56:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j86NtpoS063212 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.215.882798f (4320) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:55:43 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <215.882798f.304f867e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:55:42 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets was Pride & Prejudice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/6/2005 7:51:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sismith42@yahoo.com writes: thought that women *did* wear corsets in the Regency period, it's just that the look went from firm natural-waist to a soft empire waist...? Some examples: I think some wore more than others, and there were several transitional styles. I'm not convinced we know yet what all the early 19th century options were. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 20:07:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8707vnX010316 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:07:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8707ap1096546 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8707VOx069420; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:07:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8707MpA069352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:07:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-185.sonic.net [209.148.113.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8707LJU021735 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:07:22 -0700 Message-ID: <431E2F3E.70601@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:07:26 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think that discovering something is science, per se. Fran > > For instance, one of the questions that keeps getting asked about > medieval shoes is what are the welts for. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 21:03:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8713Zgd010752 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:03:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87130pg000682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:03:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8712vG4096329; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:02:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from softwareinnovation.com (w002.z064000176.dfw-tx.dsl.cnc.net [64.0.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8712pDO096227 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from betsy@softwareinnovation.com) Received: from theforce ([64.0.176.9]) by softwareinnovation.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:00:01 -0500 From: "Betsy Marshal" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:02:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-reply-to: <431E2F3E.70601@lavoltapress.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: AcWzQHkLYp/JtjGPSPq0ZSpYtLNN8AABzcyQ Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2005 01:00:01.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[79A60320:01C5B347] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Science is all about discovery! (then classification, then explanation, then testing, then verification.) Pyro -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:07 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology I don't think that discovering something is science, per se. Fran > > For instance, one of the questions that keeps getting asked about > medieval shoes is what are the welts for. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 21:32:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j871WCoh010966 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:32:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j871VkgW003016 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:31:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j871ViJT009682; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.144]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j871VcWE009609 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:31:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.140]) by mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050907013132.GDCK1498.mta201-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:31:32 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([219.89.166.53]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050907013132.MDHU3688.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:31:32 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.10.18]); Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:31:35 +1200 Message-ID: <006801c5b34b$e2686a20$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:31:33 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I am attempting a reconstruction of the 'effigy' > corset and am toying with various types of stiffening. > Has anyone attempted to use the kind of 'bamboo' used > to make those cheap roll up blinds? I understand they > may have some kind of treatment but thought they would > be a cheap and relatively stiff type of modern reed > boning. I would be leery of using reeds for this particular corset. There are reeds in the Dorothea stays, but they are only at the front and do not go through the tabs. The effigy stays have tabs to help in preventing the stays from difgging into the waist (and they do this very well) but you can wind up with a rather deep curve from waist to hip, especially as this pair of stays elongates the body so the distance from waist to hips is reduced. My feeling on this is to use something with the same flexibility as the original, even if it's not period correct. And if you want reed/bamboo I would stop the boning before it reaches the tabs or, not use the tabs. You'll likely wind up with the reeds being bent to stress limit or not actually bending enough and making your waist proportionally larger. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com I really need photos of me in the stays ratehr than them just laid flat... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/91 - Release Date: 6/09/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 6 22:37:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j872bD5Q011563 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:37:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j872aW0G007464 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:36:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j872aQBF038812; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j872aM3P038772 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:36:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j872aGiQ029620 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:36:16 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.93.242] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-93-242.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.93.242]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j872aGjV010251 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:36:17 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050906193357.026e6248@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:35:21 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050906162552.0317f900@pop.surewest.net> References: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>Has anyone attempted to use the kind of 'bamboo' used >>to make those cheap roll up blinds? >>If the blinds are actually bamboo, you may not want to use them. Bamboo >>when it breaks often is very sharp. It makes little teensy splinters when it breaks, and these can poke into you and get infected really easily. Bamboo is not a good idea. >>You would be much better off using the reed used for basketry. You can >>buy it by the pound. Go to a cane-chair-seat supplier or a basket-weaving supplier. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 00:17:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j874HVPQ012267 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 00:17:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j874Fxn2014788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:15:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j874FvrI083287; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:15:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j874Fqqw083249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:15:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-120.sonic.net [209.148.114.120]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j874Fp1g019213 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:15:51 -0700 Message-ID: <431E697C.8070403@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:15:56 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, but personal discovery is not necessarily science. Fran Betsy Marshal wrote: >Science is all about discovery! (then classification, then explanation, then >testing, then verification.) >Pyro > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 02:36:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j876acpL025489 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 02:36:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j876Zoam022167 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 00:35:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j876Zk3R036180; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 00:35:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.46.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j876Zfsi036127 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 00:35:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0422.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.167]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D01319111 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:35:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4316A9E6.3000804@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:12:38 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening References: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I use them in the Dorothea corset and find it very comfortable. But I agree that it won't work for the tabs. I made a 18th century corset with it. The boning was al around. But it made my waist a lot bigger! And the reeds broke in the tabs. For everyone who is as lucky as me that she doesn't need boning at the sides I would say the Dorothea Corset with reeds in front is the best. Deredere katherine sanders wrote: >Hello all > >I am attempting a reconstruction of the 'effigy' >corset and am toying with various types of stiffening. >Has anyone attempted to use the kind of 'bamboo' used >to make those cheap roll up blinds? I understand they >may have some kind of treatment but thought they would >be a cheap and relatively stiff type of modern reed >boning. > >Thanks, >Katherine > > > >___________________________________________________________ >To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 03:10:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j877AbHv004305 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 03:10:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j877AFiG023711 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 01:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j877AB51049574; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 01:10:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j877A70S049546 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 01:10:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from feudtner@festefeiern-online.de) Received: from B84f6.b.pppool.de [213.7.132.246] (helo=CELERON24) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1ECu4M2D1x-0003kR; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:10:06 +0200 Message-ID: <001601c5b37c$43d0c840$f68407d5@CELERON24> From: "Michaela Feudtner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <215.882798f.304f867e@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets was Pride & Prejudice Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:17:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:7e614aaf292c2b5ff52c82c5afb1ffa4 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To achieve a true Regency silhoutte, it is mandatory to wear stays (not a corset). Regency stays were not or only lightly boned but the important thing was the busk. It guarantees the straight posture, the lifted and slightly separated bust and the flat stomach (i.e. not poking out) essential for the correct shape. They might have been more comfortable than in the decades before and after and a lot more discreet but they were worn nonetheless. The French "Mervielleuses" who wore the see-through shifts with virtually nothing underneath at the very end of the 1700's were short lived (in the true sense of the word, pneumonia was the "rage" of the day) and were considered very scandalous by the largest part of the population, even in France. I have worn Regency dresses with and without stays and the difference in silhoutte is quite remarkable. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets was Pride & Prejudice > > In a message dated 9/6/2005 7:51:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sismith42@yahoo.com writes: > > thought that women *did* wear corsets in the Regency > period, it's just that the look went from firm > natural-waist to a soft empire waist...? Some > examples: > > > > I think some wore more than others, and there were several transitional > styles. I'm not convinced we know yet what all the early 19th century options > were. > > Ann Wass > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 06:25:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87APgaQ013253 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:25:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87APFug032592 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 04:25:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87APB1d015695; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 04:25:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com (imo-d21.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87AP7GI015645 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 04:25:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.68.5d382ad0 (4214) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:24:55 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <68.5d382ad0.305019f6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:24:54 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets was Pride & Prejudice To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/7/2005 3:10:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, feudtner@festefeiern-online.de writes: To achieve a true Regency silhouette, it is mandatory to wear stays (not a corset). Regency stays were not or only lightly boned but the important thing was the busk. It guarantees the straight posture, the lifted and slightly separated bust and the flat stomach (i.e. not poking out) essential for the correct shape. What were called "stays" in England was "corset" in France. Not sure when the term "corset" became general in English, but sometime in the 19th century. As to everyone's wearing them, well, I think the flap linings in dresses were sufficient for some of the young and not so fully endowed. I've also seem some very flimsy, lightweight muslin garments that must have been worn for just light bust support. Upon reflection, I realized that one of these would not have met in the back, so I think it was probably stitched or pinned inside a dress--sort of like a modern shelf bra. Also, early versions of what became the fully corded garment of the 1820s. I participated in a project several years ago where we pulled out a great number of corsets/stays and lined them up, and I really think there was, and is, a "missing link," likely several links, really. This led to my statement that I don't think we know all the alternatives that were worn in the early 19th century. Short, long, boned, corded--of course, these aren't pictured very often, and it can be very difficult to put a precise date on extant garments. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 06:29:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87ATqkG013294 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87ATTuK032749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 04:29:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87ATTOR017189; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 04:29:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87ATQeD017174 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 04:29:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from dm22.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5961818645 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 03:29:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm22 Received: from mailweb31.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm22.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm22.4317aafd.3700a for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 03:29:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5DHsEGteUc3QIAAAAB,f4d08271c49e76ad8e9d26df8ef8766a Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 03:29:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.71.3] Message-Id: <20050907032926.147098DC@dm22.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1067/Tue Sep 6 18:53:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have used the canes/bamboo/matchsticks from those sort of blinds to bone corsets, but I have never been game to use them in an effigy style corset - they are nicely rigid, ( and cheap!! ) but I don't think that they are at all flexible enough to take the moulding that occurs as the tabs spread out below the waist, particularly if the angle between waist and hips is sharp. Broomstraw ( like Drea used ) works *very* well - I used it in mine. Or you could try the reeds from this company - somebody on the web has written that they used them ( I can't remember who ) and the reed worked very well. https://www.grannd.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CCREEDS Joannah. --- katherine sanders wrote: From: katherine sanders Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 23:27:36 +0100 (BST) To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Hello all I am attempting a reconstruction of the 'effigy' corset and am toying with various types of stiffening. Has anyone attempted to use the kind of 'bamboo' used to make those cheap roll up blinds? I understand they may have some kind of treatment but thought they would be a cheap and relatively stiff type of modern reed boning. Thanks, Katherine ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 07:41:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87Bfgil014139 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 07:41:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87Bf0Qe044487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 05:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87BeuJg041718; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 05:40:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Beo9l041646 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 05:40:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.19f.3b820c3b (3956) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 07:40:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <19f.3b820c3b.30502bb8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 07:40:40 EDT Subject: Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've never tried bamboo, and judging by how brittle my Nana's garden bamboos were I'd be loathe to try - could be v nasty. That said, I have now made quite a few corsets (stayes) using reed boning - most people have said that it's far more comfortable than the corsets they're used to, whether that's steel or synthetic boning. Indeed, my own latest corset is reed-boned (couple of years old now, and an effigy one), and is far more comfy than my old steel-boned one ever was. I have never had any problems with the reeds bending where they shouldn't or anything like that, and I'm not exactly small! (34" waist, g-cup.) Of course I've got quite a thick wooden busk at the front (fascinates school kids when I'm doing talks!). (But I should add that it's fine when I remove the busk.) I make reed corsets from two layers of very strong heavy(ish) linen (with an extra fancy outer layer when requested). I stitch the tubes (about half an inch wide or so), then push in literally as many 'bones' as I can without bursting the stitching (at first they're in bunches, then individually till no more will fit). You do have to allow a little extra to the width to allow for the shrinkage in width of the tube - but you can work out how much by experimenting. I normally use round reeds from grannd garb (sold by the pound). (If I weren't so lazy I could probably find a thatcher here in the UK who'd sell me some but...!) Debbie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 08:29:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87CTLlN014573 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:29:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87CStb0051871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:28:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87CSr21059861; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:28:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87CSn1d059801 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:28:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ACFA0358; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 08:28:42 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.152 ([209.131.80.152] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 7 Sep 05 12:28:29 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c5b3a8$1cc6dec0$985083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] fabric source(s) wanted Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:31:43 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ruth, how big is your wanted veil? I may have an extra one in my stash. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "RuthAnn Williams" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 4:04 PM Subject: [h-cost] fabric source(s) wanted > Hi, > > I am looking for a source to purchase some good quality black crepe > (preferably crinkle and at a reasonable price) for a mourning veil. > Or if there are other ideas for fabric to used as a mourning veil, I > am certainly open to suggestions. > > Also I am looking for a source for white cotton netting for a bonnet > ruffle and lining the drape. Doesn't seem to be readily carried > around here. With that said, if I wanted to special order their > minimum required amount, I could, but that would be far more than > what I would need. > > Thanks in advance, > Ruth Williams > Rochester, NY > williams@ece.rochester.edu > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 08:54:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87CsTKV014852 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:54:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87CrpuZ055152 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:53:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87CroVP069834; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:53:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Crk1Q069742 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:53:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m62.in-tch.com [216.166.191.62]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j87ClKL23948 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <431EE44F.6010605@in-tch.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:59:59 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: <431E697C.8070403@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431E697C.8070403@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It isn't necessarily, or by definition, *not* science, either. --sue Lavolta Press wrote: > Yes, but personal discovery is not necessarily science. > > Fran > > Betsy Marshal wrote: > >> Science is all about discovery! (then classification, then >> explanation, then >> testing, then verification.) >> Pyro _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 10:31:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87EVhWA015840 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:31:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87EUsg8063659 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:30:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87EUomU025313; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:30:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87EUlKg025243 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:30:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j87EUksr013300 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:30:46 -0400 Message-ID: <431EF995.2040604@msn.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 07:30:45 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening References: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050906222736.21361.qmail@web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Funny this should come up. I was just looking for more info on the corset itself and had asked Drea Leed about some particulars. According to her, the effigy corset is boned with whalebone, not reed. Sg katherine sanders wrote: >Hello all > >I am attempting a reconstruction of the 'effigy' >corset and am toying with various types of stiffening. >Has anyone attempted to use the kind of 'bamboo' used >to make those cheap roll up blinds? I understand they >may have some kind of treatment but thought they would >be a cheap and relatively stiff type of modern reed >boning. > >Thanks, >Katherine > > > >___________________________________________________________ >To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 11:34:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87FYhkb017353 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:34:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87FY22K071710 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:34:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87FXvca075271; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:33:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f26.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87FXpd9075130 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:33:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:33:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:33:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509071028.j87APDUg015708@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:33:41 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2005 15:33:41.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[86988650:01C5B3C1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1068/Wed Sep 7 04:03:01 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Fran: >I don't think that discovering something is science, per se. I think it has to do with rigor and whether you are using the scientific method. Examine the evidence, come up with a hypothesis and test it to failure. Revise and repeat until it ceases to fail, at which point you probably have a valid hypothesis. Where the problem is has to do with whether people are trying to find evidence to support a hypothesis, or trying to find a way to break the hypothsis (one is not science, the other is). Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 12:51:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87GpaGx002323 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87GouAR081402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Gomw7039974; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:50:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Gog0r039873 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:50:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-22.sonic.net [209.148.113.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Gofon023936 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:50:41 -0700 Message-ID: <431F1A66.7030009@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:50:46 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is not neccessarily_ not_ science to try to find evidence to support a hyphothesis. And unscientific efforts can be made to break one. The important issue there is objectivity. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Marc Carlson wrote: >> Fran: >> I don't think that discovering something is science, per se. > > > I think it has to do with rigor and whether you are using the > scientific method. > > Examine the evidence, come up with a hypothesis and test it to > failure. Revise and repeat until it ceases to fail, at which point > you probably have a valid hypothesis. > > Where the problem is has to do with whether people are trying to find > evidence to support a hypothesis, or trying to find a way to break the > hypothsis (one is not science, the other is). > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 13:06:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87H6P2N002523 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:06:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87H60gh083352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:06:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87H5vD4052966; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:05:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87H5plD052876 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:05:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-22.sonic.net [209.148.113.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87H5kt0030710 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:05:47 -0700 Message-ID: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:05:52 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I should add that, the social climate amoung many reenactors makes a scientific attitude almost impossible. The "possession" of knowledge gets tied to social status. People who want to compete for status, do it by trying to prove the other person's "knowledge" wrong. This is a personal attack often enough that many people, not unnaturally, start to view every disagreement with their views as a personal attack, whether it is intended that way or not. If admitting they may be wrong, or even that something may be looked at in different ways, makes them vulnerable to attack, and exposure to shame and scorn from a group of others, they don't want to examine or test their theories. People who don't want to expose themselves to any attack, attach themselves to someone whose social status currently proves their theories to be "correct," rather than thinking for themselves. So it becomes an issues of "My clique says" versus "your clique says." This routine is totally different from real scientific discussion. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Marc Carlson wrote: >> Fran: >> I don't think that discovering something is science, per se. > > > I think it has to do with rigor and whether you are using the > scientific method. > > Examine the evidence, come up with a hypothesis and test it to > failure. Revise and repeat until it ceases to fail, at which point > you probably have a valid hypothesis. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 13:33:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87HWxYW002906 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87HWKVk086624 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:32:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87HWHJH075043; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:32:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87HWDDu074900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ED3lm-0004Le-C0; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:31:34 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:31:34 -0500 Message-ID: <20050907123134.xvtj14rg7xuog0gc@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:31:34 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Lavolta Press : *snippage* > > People who don't want to expose themselves to any attack, attach > themselves to someone whose social status currently proves their > theories to be "correct," rather than thinking for themselves. So it > becomes an issues of "My clique says" versus "your clique says." > > This routine is totally different from real scientific discussion. > ROTFL! Not necessarily. I can't tell you how many scientific "discussions" (aka arguments) that I've witnessed that are of just that very type. "My data is better than your data;" "Your model is wrong;" "this group [of researchers -- and They Know Best] says reality is *this* ergo it must be." yadda-yadda, ad nauseum. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 13:48:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87HmJdF003128 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:48:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87HlLnT088142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:47:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87HkFsQ086069; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:47:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87HiptM084963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:45:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-22.sonic.net [209.148.113.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Hil9x015485 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:44:50 -0700 Message-ID: <431F2715.5060206@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:44:53 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> <20050907123134.xvtj14rg7xuog0gc@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20050907123134.xvtj14rg7xuog0gc@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But for social status reasons? Not because, "All research to this point has shown that . . . " Or "I agree with Smith but that's because [advancing arguments]? Fran > > ROTFL! Not necessarily. I can't tell you how many scientific > "discussions" (aka arguments) that I've witnessed that are of just that > very type. "My data is better than your data;" "Your model is > wrong;" "this group [of researchers -- and They Know Best] says > reality is > *this* ergo it must be." yadda-yadda, ad nauseum. > > Susan > ----- > Susan Farmer > sfarmer@goldsword.com > University of Tennessee > Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 14:00:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87I0Swk003245 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:00:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87HxlRT089808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:59:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Hx3I5000537; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:59:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87HwZKH000109 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:58:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-22.sonic.net [209.148.113.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87HwR5Y020529 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:58:28 -0700 Message-ID: <431F2A49.7050504@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:58:33 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> <20050907123134.xvtj14rg7xuog0gc@www.goldsword.com> <431F2715.5060206@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431F2715.5060206@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=23% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I should clarify and say that certainly scientific researchers disagree, agree, and argue with each other. But as far as I know, _this should be tied to personal relationships or social status_. Researchers are supposed to emotionally distance themselves from such things as well as they possibly can. It's one thing if someone says, "I disagree with you because I and others have found significantly different things than you have, and here they are." It's another thing if someone says, "I disagree with you because you're not in my crowd and I don't like you." It's also another thing if someone says, "Prove yourself to me, I'm waiting. And I'll push you to the wall with question after question." Generally, someone who wants to prove a scientific theory wrong, has to provide some evidence to the contrary himself or herself. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lavolta Press wrote: > > But for social status reasons? Not because, "All research to this > point has shown that . . . " Or "I agree with Smith but that's > because [advancing arguments]? > > Fran > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 14:41:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87IfZiE003790 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:41:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87IexWe094841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:40:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Iedw4037388; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87IaduE033985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:36:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-22.sonic.net [209.148.113.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87IaNxA006669 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:36:23 -0700 Message-ID: <431F332D.1080203@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:36:29 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> <20050907123134.xvtj14rg7xuog0gc@www.goldsword.com> <431F2715.5060206@lavoltapress.com> <431F2A49.7050504@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431F2A49.7050504@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry, this is a typo for "this should not be tied." Fran Lavolta Press wrote: > I should clarify and say that certainly scientific researchers > disagree, agree, and argue with each other. But as far as I know, > _this should be tied to personal relationships or social status_. > Researchers are supposed to emotionally distance themselves from such > things as well as they possibly can. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 14:46:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87IkmNU003947 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:46:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87Ik27G095345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Ik00m041553; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:46:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87IjuNT041415 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:45:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ED4vT-0003IH-IK; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:45:39 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:45:39 -0500 Message-ID: <20050907134539.n5l5bo9x7czksk48@www.goldsword.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:45:39 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> <20050907123134.xvtj14rg7xuog0gc@www.goldsword.com> <431F2715.5060206@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <431F2715.5060206@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1069/Wed Sep 7 09:08:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Lavolta Press : > > But for social status reasons? You mean like "Lab XYZ is *the* place to be (rather like publishing in *that* journal because it's number is higher), so I'm going to espouse their philosophy in the hopes of getting a job there ... I've heard of it done. Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 15:44:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87JieTs004762 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:44:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87JhaSt001877 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:43:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87JgKmq085481; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:43:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Jf1Qr084478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:42:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-22.sonic.net [209.148.113.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87JPhZB032170 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:25:44 -0700 Message-ID: <431F3EBD.9020504@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:25:49 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology References: <431F1DF0.1000607@lavoltapress.com> <20050907123134.xvtj14rg7xuog0gc@www.goldsword.com> <431F2715.5060206@lavoltapress.com> <20050907134539.n5l5bo9x7czksk48@www.goldsword.com> In-Reply-To: <20050907134539.n5l5bo9x7czksk48@www.goldsword.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I haven't. And I've worked at a couple of prestigious research labs, and for one prestigious research journal. For one thing, in my experience a research lab does not have only one project. There are usually many, only very loosely related (or even unrelated) projects going on at one time. In job interviews at such places, certainly applicants say they are interested in the work that is going on in that project or group, and mention their qualifications for working on that project and in that group. Also, at a higher level, their qualifications for starting new projects. They may even have contacts within the company. However, this is not competition for _social status_ It's competition for a job. Furthermore, potential employees are still interviewed and screened, and still have to present adequate qualifications. And a research journal usually publishes a variety of articles, which don't necessarily "agree" with each other by any means. People don't tend to do scientific research just to write an article about it. They write the article(s) to let other people know about what they have discovered, and/or interpreted, and/or theorized. Yes, they also write to publicize themselves and the company they work for, which helps some in getting grants and perhaps, later on, jobs elsewhere for the researchers who worked on the project. But again, this is not _social_ competition. And again, articles undergo rigorous screening for scientific plausibility. Not all competition is social, not everyone wants to or is allowed to BS to compete professionally, and not all screening is personally supportive or vindictive. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > You mean like "Lab XYZ is *the* place to be (rather like publishing in > *that* journal because it's number is higher), so I'm going to espouse > their philosophy in the hopes of getting a job there ... > > I've heard of it done. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 17:59:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87LxYsQ006277 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:59:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87Lwsms016905 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87LuZk2093408; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:57:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav14.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87LtoVl092665 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:45:37 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:45:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:45:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Sep 2005 21:45:37.0491 (UTC) FILETIME=[7BC6C230:01C5B3F5] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And how were they fastened in back -- buckled, tied, pinned? The only question I can *sort of* answer. I took a pic of the back of a statue in the Cluny Museum in Paris. Unfortunately, I couldn't move to the other side to actually SEE the buckle. The statue is from Stephani, called Female Donor, France 1463. The rest of the details are too fuzzy to read (no flash and no tripod, ugh!). Hope this helps somewhat! http://www.geocities.com/audreybmorin/Varia/images/P7060176.JPG _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 18:28:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87MSs7p006652 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:28:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87MLvXb019600 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:28:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Lx7Ga095444; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:00:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87LwpQA095079 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:59:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so1344734nzf for ; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:58:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=P0JPvqTnGmHsdLvTzJP8ybqzFYA2jJriK7Ml3jbvr/6aj0UrX0z/GFwnIcc9Or7LSoPgxybq4cFyfb1pn5pnBnDQROmo/AmdyvZv4sPdP/2uaRKO2sDIUQmdOZP7SGM5wtuTfydFuSvoFRuAa3Kr0OmyTv84zkHMO+AvdxE2sKw= Received: by 10.36.66.19 with SMTP id o19mr3634334nza; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.79.17 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:58:44 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j87LwpQA095079 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Funny this should come up. I was just looking for more info on the >corset itself and had asked Drea Leed about some particulars. According >to her, the effigy corset is boned with whalebone, not reed. Cant exactly buy them 'round here, tho, can we? Guess most wil make do with reed, "woode and wyre". Now, Tokyo, whalebone's fair game. I can even recommend a shop. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 19:33:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87NXA0K007450 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87NWKcF027329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:32:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87NWIUN063900; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:32:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87NWE8D063854 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j87NWEsr017051 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:32:14 -0400 Message-ID: <431F787E.5010601@msn.com> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:32:14 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening References: In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Clearly it is up to the user-make it with period materials that may not be "correct" or make it with materials which are imitations of the period materials actually used. I am offering the information for people who may assume that it was originally "stuffed" with products other than whalebone. Cin wrote: >>Funny this should come up. I was just looking for more info on the >>corset itself and had asked Drea Leed about some particulars. According >>to her, the effigy corset is boned with whalebone, not reed. >> >> > >Cant exactly buy them 'round here, tho, can we? Guess most wil make >do with reed, "woode and wyre". Now, Tokyo, whalebone's fair game. I >can even recommend a shop. >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 19:47:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87NlZ7i007639 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:47:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87NlFgF028523 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:47:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87NlDm0072121; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:47:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail7.tpgi.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Nl94Y072081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:47:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-220-20-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.220.20]) by mail7.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j87Nl7At009222 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:47:08 +1000 Message-ID: <004201c5b406$56c6cdc0$14dcf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:46:15 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening > >Funny this should come up. I was just looking for more info on the > >corset itself and had asked Drea Leed about some particulars. According > >to her, the effigy corset is boned with whalebone, not reed. > > Cant exactly buy them 'round here, tho, can we? Guess most wil make > do with reed, "woode and wyre". Now, Tokyo, whalebone's fair game. I > can even recommend a shop. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com Really? I was under the impression that baleen only came from the larger whales, I thought Minky whales had proper teeth? Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 19:54:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87NsMv5007716 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:54:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87Ns5MV029057 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:54:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Ns4VS075636; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:54:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Ns0j8075601 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:54:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.117.108.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.117.108]) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ED9jr-0002fd-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:54:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:53:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carol Kocian wrote: > >> Most SCA events are private - halls, parks and school property > >>is rented for their use. > > > >I wouldn't quite call that private . . . not like, say, a Victorian > >costume ball, or a modern party, where only friends are invited. > >I'd call it organizational. Anyone can join the SCA as far as I > >know. It used to be possible to attend events without being a > >member, but I don't know if that's still true. > > Private in the sense that everyone there is in costume as a >participant. While people don't need to pay their dues to the SCA in >order to attend, a requirement is that they wear an attempt at period >costume. SCA events are not private. While we have to rent someone else's property, all SCA events are open to the public. Most events have an officer present (Chatelaine, Gold Key, Hospitaller, etc.). who has clean garb to loan for free. Lilinah who has been that officer at Principality and at Kingdom levels in the SCA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 19:57:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j87NvYdZ007776 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:57:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j87NvDWW029305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:57:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87NvDVg077183; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j87Nv707077155 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:57:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.117.108.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.117.108]) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ED9ms-0003QJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:57:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:56:54 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] fiber arts and making vs buying clothes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Debloughcostumes@aol.com wrote: >Never was a goth myself, but had lots of goth friends (and still have a few!). >Most of them wouldn't be caught dead making their own clothes - adapting >maybe, but not actually making. Here in Northern California there were and are groups and mailing lists for Goths who are making and adapting clothing. There's no stigma accruing to those who make their own. Someone who can make cool Gothwear is appreciated. Lilinah _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 20:01:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8801vRS007827 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:01:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8801Xil029703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:01:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8801Vv1079583; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:01:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.64]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8801R2d079545 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:01:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lilinah@earthlink.net) Received: from dialup-4.243.117.108.dial1.sanfrancisco1.level3.net ([4.243.117.108]) by pop-knobcone.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1ED9r4-0004Ly-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:01:27 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:01:18 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: lilinah@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] I don't know art but I know what I like Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO "otsisto" wrote: ><< Renaissance Faires also would have a booth selling chainmail/chain >headdresses. They range in size from cauls to long veils, a mix of chain >mail, looped chains and jewels. Old techniques, old shapes (veils), but the >product is modern. > >De:I always believed they stem from the Edwardian view of the Middle Ages >and Camelot. But mostly I have seen the chainmail cauls in Erte's drawings. > > < The only time I've seen one worn outside a "historic" (Renfair/SCA/LARP) >context was that Anne Rice wore one during a television >view. -Carol > >De: I've seen them in plays and Halloween and one Goth. She had white blond >hair and the chainmail was black with red crystals. They have also been used in films. More than one chain mail jewelry vendor proudly displayed photos (in a book of their work) of their headwear - and chain mail hand jewelry - as featured in movies. This was especially true in the 1980s. They are also often worn at neoPagan rituals and festivals. Lilinah who has a matching head and hand set for festive wear _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 7 20:02:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8802dqv007832 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:02:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8802D4s029773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8802DKo079907; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j88029Bm079882 for ; Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:02:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 25745 invoked from network); 7 Sep 2005 17:02:09 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 25732, pid: 25741, t: 0.0330s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1062 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 7 Sep 2005 17:02:09 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050907165823.03183e20@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:02:03 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] effigy corset: reeds/bamboo for stiffening In-Reply-To: <431F787E.5010601@msn.com> References: <431F787E.5010601@msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made my corset using the 3/16-inch cable ties from the hardware store (package of 10, 34 inches long) which are easy to cut to size with sturdy craft scissors. They actually flex a lot like whalebone and are a lot lighter than steel bones. Joan At 04:32 PM 9/7/2005, you wrote: >Clearly it is up to the user-make it with period materials that may >not be "correct" or make it with materials which are imitations of >the period materials actually used. I am offering the information >for people who may assume that it was originally "stuffed" with >products other than whalebone. > >Cin wrote: > >>>Funny this should come up. I was just looking for more info on the >>>corset itself and had asked Drea Leed about some particulars. According >>>to her, the effigy corset is boned with whalebone, not reed. >>> >> >>Cant exactly buy them 'round here, tho, can we? Guess most wil make >>do with reed, "woode and wyre". Now, Tokyo, whalebone's fair game. I >>can even recommend a shop. >>--cin >>Cynthia Barnes >>CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 07:48:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88BmoAT014570 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:48:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88Bm71W077931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 05:48:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88Bm0ZI083384; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 05:48:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88Blv7c083361 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 05:47:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from dm20.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1752E403F6 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 04:47:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm20 Received: from mailweb31.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm20.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm20.4317aaf9.47f77 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 04:47:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5DICTs/epttwIAAAAB,8cfcfb0a3ea8e75b58af3f7ff31208cf Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 04:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] chainmail bikini X-Originating-Ip: [203.27.62.92] Message-Id: <20050908044756.1477BB29@dm20.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cerebus the Aardvark to Red Sophia - "If you'd stop wearing that chainmail bikini, those would heal." - Dave Sim ( I don't remember which volume of Cerebus it was. ;-> ) Joannah --- Carol Kocian wrote: I was an early adaptor - does mine get to be art? I think the idea of a chainmail bikini was around for a bit before somebody decided to try making one. _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 08:22:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88CMFwD015094 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:22:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88CLm5f079918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:21:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88CLlhX097403; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:21:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88CLhEa097338 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:21:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j88CLaB09074.; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:21:36 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:21:25 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1968 SCA views of medieval clothing Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j88CMFwD015094 Status: RO I think the distinction people are trying to make is between "private" events intended for the participants' own pleasure, and "public" events intended to entertain and educate a non-costumed audience. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> lilinah@earthlink.net 08/09/2005 00:53 >>> SCA events are not private. While we have to rent someone else's property, all SCA events are open to the public. Most events have an officer present (Chatelaine, Gold Key, Hospitaller, etc.). who has clean garb to loan for free. Lilinah who has been that officer at Principality and at Kingdom levels in the SCA _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 11:53:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88Frqa2019646 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:53:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88Fr8um015134 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:53:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88FqmfX026527; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.89] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88FqcVJ026318 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:52:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:52:33 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV17.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:52:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <215.882798f.304f867e@aol.com> <001601c5b37c$43d0c840$f68407d5@CELERON24> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Regency corsets was Pride & Prejudice Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:52:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2005 15:52:33.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[539CA390:01C5B48D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ---- Original Message ----- From: "Michaela Feudtner" > > I have worn Regency dresses with and without stays and the difference in > silhoutte is quite remarkable. Did you make the stays? Which pattern did you use? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 12:25:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88GPeke020066 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:25:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88GOqet019514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:24:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88GOhYN050752; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:24:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88Fk3t3021298 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:46:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:45:58 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:45:58 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: Experimental Archaeology Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:45:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Sep 2005 15:45:58.0420 (UTC) FILETIME=[680F9540:01C5B48C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Carlson" > It would be better, however, if this research was published someplace > where people could actually access it, and make their own tests :) > > Marc That's exactly why I love the Internet and various mailing lists so much! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 12:36:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88Gaoco020203 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:36:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88GaFek020871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:36:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88GZvAn059067; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:36:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88GYCMH057761 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:35:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EDPLZ-000Kay-8B for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:33:57 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:32:54 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes References: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote >> And how were they fastened in back -- buckled, tied, pinned? > >The only question I can *sort of* answer. > >I took a pic of the back of a statue in the Cluny Museum in Paris. >Unfortunately, I couldn't move to the other side to actually SEE the >buckle. The statue is from Stephani, called Female Donor, France 1463. >The rest of the details are too fuzzy to read (no flash and no tripod, >ugh!). Hope this helps somewhat! > >http://www.geocities.com/audreybmorin/Varia/images/P7060176.JPG > Good picture! Is that trim sewn down to act as a belt loop, do you think, or just hanging over? (and is she carrying a baby, or playing a bagpipe?!) Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 15:42:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88JguaJ023072 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88JgBfI041780 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:42:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88JfteB097820; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:42:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j88JfWab097504 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:41:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 41490 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2005 19:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 19:41:26 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:41:23 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:23 08/09/2005, you wrote: >Joan: > >I made my corset using the 3/16-inch cable ties from the hardware > >store (package of 10, 34 inches long) which are easy to cut to size > >with sturdy craft scissors. They actually flex a lot like whalebone > >and are a lot lighter than steel bones. > >really? I've heard this claim a lot, about once a year on this list. >I decided to test it. Thru the methods of experimental archaeology (a >nod to Marc & Fran, et al here), I went off to test this claim. > >I held several early 19thc whalebone handled sterling ladles (I'm and >incurable silverware collector) and, with permission, flexed the >handles. They barely moved. I made a point of asking the proprietor >about whalebone since he'd been head of the silver department at >Sothebys (the shop was in Lechlade, UK -- not sure about the >spelling). He said that these whalebones were typical of whalebones in >old silver. > >Now, in real life, I'm a silicon valley s/w engineer, with all sizes >of cable ties in my garage. Not even the stiffest cable tie fails to >bend. If they did, they be pretty useless for tying cables. > >My point is that this common modern substitute, while available, >cheap, workable, washable and all those other positive qualities, >fails to act like real whalebone. It doesnt look right either, not >that you'd see it in a corset. Totally the wrong color & texture. I am sorry to disagree with you, but whalebone for corsets is totally flexible. I inherited a gross whalebones from a corsetiere - they are maybe from the 1940's or 50's. They flex like Rigilene. They are much finer that cable ties, and behave differently. I produce one when I do lectures on corsetry. No-one believes how whippy they are until they try for themselves - you can bend one in half without it breaking. (And they twist too - I can well see why it was used for corsets.) I also own a reproduction mid 18th century, fully boned corset made before the banning of whalebone, and it is very firm, but flexible. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 16:05:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88K5uEk023419 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:05:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88K4tcn044758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:04:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88K4rFH015998; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:04:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88K4nLP015874 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:04:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z31so2986247nzd for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:04:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=AZYdu42/kCsjfxXaCRTn2NKs18FgHDGf/fRl/ttFWspXQPAd35dXL/1iuTU6u0L5LLIiiDUJO7kDPJj+NL85UnT87D5TtLHUL1ksbml1IpTwMVvMlLkG34tJOPPOPgWjC6lXHUQZw7bevNE8xzYiIHdbrbFX19jclhBPAnX6NaA= Received: by 10.36.79.10 with SMTP id c10mr5556214nzb; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.79.17 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:04:44 -0700 From: Cin To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j88K4nLP015874 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/8/05, Suzi Clarke wrote: > I am sorry to disagree with you, but whalebone for corsets is totally > flexible. I inherited a gross whalebones from a corsetiere - they are > maybe from the 1940's or 50's. Interesting. What a completely different experience. Wish you were even in the same hemisphere so I could have a look. How thick are the bones in the corset? (Do they differ throughtout the corset?) The various ladle handles were .75 to 1 square cm, too thick for corsetry. I believe the Sothebys guy said they'd been heated to meld them into decorative twists. Perhaps there is a processing difference. Oh boy, another bit of curious minutia to track down. If I had a nickel for every bit of minutia... --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 16:15:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88KFgMp023553 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:15:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88KFBwi046135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:15:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88KF9pB023856; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j88KEr4k023627 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:15:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 75034 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2005 20:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 2005 20:14:48 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908211053.01d30550@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:14:46 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 21:04 08/09/2005, you wrote: >On 9/8/05, Suzi Clarke wrote: > > I am sorry to disagree with you, but whalebone for corsets is totally > > flexible. I inherited a gross whalebones from a corsetiere - they are > > maybe from the 1940's or 50's. >Interesting. What a completely different experience. Wish you were >even in the same hemisphere so I could have a look. >How thick are the bones in the corset? (Do they differ throughtout >the corset?) The various ladle handles were .75 to 1 square cm, too >thick for corsetry. I believe the Sothebys guy said they'd been heated >to meld them into decorative twists. Perhaps there is a processing >difference. Oh boy, another bit of curious minutia to track down. If I >had a nickel for every bit of minutia... The loose bones and the corset bones are both roughly the same size and thickness as modern white-covered steel bones - the ones with the tips. They are not all identical in thickness, but it is millimetres if not micromillimetres in difference. It is quite clear that they have been "sliced" lengthways. (The corset is quite light by the way - far lighter than if it was boned with steel.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 16:22:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88KMVZx023661 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:22:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88KM3qR047320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:22:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88KLx5N029859; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:22:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88KLqMg029733 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:21:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j88KGTjf010322 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:16:29 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43209D5B.50805@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:21:47 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20050908211053.01d30550@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908211053.01d30550@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > The loose bones and the corset bones are both roughly the same size and > thickness as modern white-covered steel bones - the ones with the tips. > They are not all identical in thickness, but it is millimetres if not > micromillimetres in difference. It is quite clear that they have been > "sliced" lengthways. (The corset is quite light by the way - far lighter > than if it was boned with steel.) Someone on the H-Cost list a while back had some whalebone and described it as "like a fingernail" but it was black. IIRC, "whalebone" for corsets is the baleen, which are fairly regular in size, and thin, due to the job they do for the whale. I could easily understand if different sections of the baleen have different properties, though, and maybe the ladle handles could have been made out of a thicker section, or actual bones? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 17:22:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88LMbH0024528 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:22:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88LLtqM054988 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:21:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88LLpdZ077467; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:21:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxs2.wvu.edu (mxs2.wvu.edu [157.182.140.114]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88LLjRh077316 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:21:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by mxs2.wvu.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88LLaWC028036 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:21:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:21:36 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:21:12 -0400 From: "Rhonda Donaldson" To: , Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT posts re storm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I totally agree. The humane society is currently taking donations for the animals from Katrina. Please help them too Rhonda Rhonda Donaldson LTA II e-Reserves Jr. Guru in Training Circulation Department Downtown Campus Library P O Box 6069 Morgantown, WV 26506 293-4040 x4094 rhonda.donaldson@mail.wvu.edu "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." --Frank Herbert "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." - Eleanor Roosevelt >>> cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net 9/2/2005 11:29:06 PM >>> Gentle List I made a donation to the American Red Cross this afternoon. I agree with Fran that it may be far more productive to send money if this is weighing on one's conscience or heart, than for the list to discuss or decide whether or not the off topic comments that have been made by folks from other countries are deliberately insensitive or simply naievete manifesting itself in an unpleasant way. I read the offending post, and honestly believe that Bjarne's shaky English is the culprit. It did not seem offensive to me. I thought it sounded like he'd heard some news stories abroad blaming Bush or the Federal gov't for the "mishandling" (again not taking a position, just repeating the news' latest spin) and was only commiserating, not trying to stir the pot. I genuinely thought he was trying to be kind, but he really doesn't have much command of the language. That said, Fran's also right, this isnt' the place for this discussion. People's hearts are breaking and it is way, way too real a catastrophe for those of us here to be discussing in any meaningful way. There's nothing we can do but send money or pray, or both. My heart goes out to those who are living this nightmare. Please let's not make this a place that is unpleasant by making it a political forum. Again, you all in the Gulf Coast are in my prayers. God speed. Back to costume content discussion.... angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marie Stewart" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 5:51 PM Subject: [h-cost] avoiding pain and distress, hang in there all > Hi folks... I'm sorry to see that Bjarne is being insensitive again. > I did not see what he wrote, and I have no desire to - I made a > policy some time ago to send all his posts to the trash unread. I > hope he hasn't hurt anyone with his words. The last thing we need is > more pain and distress. > > Hang in there all. > Much love > Mari / Bridgette > > On 9/2/05, Wanda Pease wrote: >> Bjarne, This might give you an even better idea of what the US is all >> about, even when we are stripped down to the essentials. The Coronation >> may >> seem trivial, but the determination to make it happen isn't. Sort of >> like >> the Danish Crown not giving up when the Nazi's poured over your borders. >> Not a natural disaster, but close enough for government work. > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 18:24:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88MOvda025371 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:24:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88MOIJS062535 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:24:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88MODfB024897; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88MOBQx024778 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so1561760nzf for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ZKf9kF205u+J/z6jjKSPVRNmnZtyOnfZRTKKvqh/CCzdewxxUOcMIjkbvW66soZJQUlBEE0ZSop1dVR4Aps18Z4OlrGiXQY8Oz9IJZTW/7BvLOqjeDcMWRVl8M2KfwgDFu/HMD0xlaaXTfdQV326GHk+rzmbdRlYlKb7bgsfInw= Received: by 10.36.5.3 with SMTP id 3mr2737642nze; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.79.17 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:23:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:23:55 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by net.indra.com id j88MOBQx024778 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Elizabeth Walpole" >> Cant exactly buy them 'round here, tho, can we? Guess most wil make >> do with reed, "woode and wyre". Now, Tokyo, whalebone's fair game. I >> can even recommend a shop. >Really? I was under the impression that baleen only came from the larger >whales, I thought Minky whales had proper teeth? Japanese whalers fish in international waters and are not restricted to their own. Outside the 250mi territorial limits established by many treaties ships can fish, trawl, whale & launch satellites w/o govt foldeerol. My own "woode and wyre" comment was excessive paraphrasing intending to point to Elizabethan commentators like these: William Jones provided "xii Buskes of Whalebone and wyer covered with sarceonet quilted" . --Great Wardrobe Accounts, 1586, as cited in Janet Arnold, QEWU. "Fastidious men, as well as ladies, wore these 'whalebone bodyes for the better grace.'" --Channing M. Linthicum, Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare and His Contemporaries (Oxford: Clarendon, 1936), p. 178. "English burgher women usually wear … Instead of whalebone, they wear a broad circular piece of wood over the breast to keep the body straighted and more erect. English women of the nobility dress very similarly to the French except for very long stomachers." --Thomas Platter, Travels in England, 1599. My point here was that the original poster who ask about reeds also had some other options. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 18:34:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88MYrGj025508 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:34:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88MVU2A063382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88JO3JD084900; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:25:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88JNamA084551 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:23:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so1532769nzf for ; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=IUl3nZyFSOY0iA2oQEvdjCvGgiIfA6JYuS/jVKMMHINQxFAqov7gCDzoPdBYxTOhof7fidgXYg6DvGVURLjnQMOjU4NDPZd2Xo2e2NT3z/TmX7Rf5xYWNYPa1uEyQMKlrum+PEmst/8I4KMdAvW/BSzjByC5zNqhkj+zhNQiyVU= Received: by 10.36.79.11 with SMTP id c11mr4292869nzb; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.79.17 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:23:31 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j88JNamA084551 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan: >I made my corset using the 3/16-inch cable ties from the hardware >store (package of 10, 34 inches long) which are easy to cut to size >with sturdy craft scissors. They actually flex a lot like whalebone >and are a lot lighter than steel bones. really? I've heard this claim a lot, about once a year on this list. I decided to test it. Thru the methods of experimental archaeology (a nod to Marc & Fran, et al here), I went off to test this claim. I held several early 19thc whalebone handled sterling ladles (I'm and incurable silverware collector) and, with permission, flexed the handles. They barely moved. I made a point of asking the proprietor about whalebone since he'd been head of the silver department at Sothebys (the shop was in Lechlade, UK -- not sure about the spelling). He said that these whalebones were typical of whalebones in old silver. Now, in real life, I'm a silicon valley s/w engineer, with all sizes of cable ties in my garage. Not even the stiffest cable tie fails to bend. If they did, they be pretty useless for tying cables. My point is that this common modern substitute, while available, cheap, workable, washable and all those other positive qualities, fails to act like real whalebone. It doesnt look right either, not that you'd see it in a corset. Totally the wrong color & texture. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 18:58:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j88Mwg1r025788 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:58:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j88MwI5D067013 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j88MwHXg048265; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:58:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.95]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j88MwE5l048187 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:58:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 67548 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Sep 2005 22:58:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=MISa/WQACiOpCvenb2pLfN0IoS1NYIC8SO6CLnIIXIvtsvaIk9e9wkjSQi0y0rp6uJaWpM6ZOOU1oc1tWwt/ApNwzRh6jOAwIEgDp1ZXpEQwhQHe1Z0uzIDXcRlF8ITcJ4CXkYd0I6DI/XN03h1ZXIwPO9Umat9N4wc3ferwyDQ= ; Message-ID: <20050908225808.67546.qmail@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.74.148] by web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:58:08 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:58:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509081631.j88GR2gA052426@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Catching up X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, just a few days and my inbox is overflowing. Three day weekend meant I wasn't able to get online very much, but finally got through the discussions on various topics - all interesting and educational, or at least entertaining. ;-) Most of the comments and observances I had have already been made by others, however... SCA - from my limited esperience the SCA has evolved over time. There seem to be a larger percentage of folks interested in historical accuracy than 20 years ago. It seems that the parameters have changed as well - when I first encountered the SCA it was predominantly Western European based. Now I hear that any culture within the 600 to 1600 period that had some type of contact with Western Europe is acceptable, which explains the wide variety of garb. An excerpt from an SCA article states, "...describe the SCA as recreating the Middle Ages "as they ought to have been." ....A better description is that we selectively recreate medieval culture, choosing elements of the culture that interest and attract us." (from http://www.sca.org/sca-intro.html) And as Lilinah said, many events are open to the public. An attempt to dress 'period' by visitors and newcomers is appreciated and basic loaner garb is provided. I took my niece to an event a couple of weekends ago, and we found a wonderful "T" tunic type dress for her to borrow that was quite accurate. (Was also pleased that the little tom-boy commented the dress was really comfortable!) Hippies - 40 years old is an ageing hippie?! Anyone 40 is a little too young to be classified as an original unless their parents were. - let alone be classified as an ageing anything! ;-D Most folks strive to establish their own identity by living outside the mainstream in one way or another. Some are just more extreme than others - and as another person commented, things no longer shock as they once did since we have become accustomed to diversity. That being said, when I see some of the "retro" fashions that have been popular the last few years I usually find myself thinking...ug, that was horrible when we wore it the first time around! (re: polyester; bellbottom hip-huggers; acid green anything; extremely bright, lid to eyebrow eyeshadow; disco music; etc...JMO.) Anyway - glad to be back and love finding all the resources mentioned. Annette M ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 21:22:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j891MFYY027603 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j891LVfS078582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:21:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j891LTtY022699; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:21:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.233]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j891LPR9022617 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:21:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 65797 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Sep 2005 01:21:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=vwluVwOwglgz4ReacLc+RYQx1R+DPwF2x/G+CrQBi9ZkQ3SRG23XYFNGTBQOqFIqGm2Ccabb2DmJohaTSiNF+MHOGGc8iFEHXNZgoIa1ZtlYaCmzPxfw/bxKUhp1l5TbzLsmpwNz2lz53nLK5z89xI3rma5u1PifhRJ7aD4pvHI= ; Message-ID: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.74.148] by web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 18:21:20 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:21:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I found the page on the Kilcommon Bog Jacket at Reconstructing History. From the other info I found, I would hazard a guess that this is the same thing as an Ionar/Inar. I can't get my FI to give up his kilt - even though he swears he is Irish and not Scottish. I did get him away from the modern Scottish kilt jacket/outfit by showing him pictures and telling him the history behind the Kilcommon Jacket and he said to make him one. It is a later period than the dresses will be, but at least it won't be 'modern'. It will have to be a slightly modified version with a very conservative leine, as I did show him the pictures of the one Kimiko made, http://www.kimiko1.com/dressdiaries/irishbard/index.html and he wasn't too fond of the full 'skirt'. I think this is more what he had in mind. http://www.alcaigpipebandsupplies.com/index.php?cmd=viewproduct&id=118 I also like this one, but in a solid color. http://www.lydia.org/~zaphod/sca/ionar.html Are there any other sources of information - most of the sites I found use the same woodcuts that Kimiko found for examples. Is reconstructing history the only pattern available? It looks somewhat simple - what skill level might be necessary to create a pattern? (for someone with a high level of aptitude for that sort of thing) I did find conflicting information on a couple of things as well.. ..what sort of decoration was on the jackets - either embroidered, or braid that was sewn on? ..did the sleeves have ties only at the wrist or along the full length, or were they only worn loose. ..how was it held closed in front - by belt, ties, or a brooch? ..did it overlap like a bathrobe or like a jacket when closed? I realize the answers are subject to interpretation of research and there are virtually no extant examples, but any information is appreciated. Thanks, Annette M ______________________________________________________ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 21:22:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j891MWow027606 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:22:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j891M9c1078691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:22:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j891M9pS022993; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:22:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav1.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j891Lb6J022723 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:21:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:21:32 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV1.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 01:21:32 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050903165428.33122.qmail@web52809.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:21:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2005 01:21:32.0611 (UTC) FILETIME=[D00AF130:01C5B4DC] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>I took a pic of the back of a statue in the Cluny Museum in Paris. >>Unfortunately, I couldn't move to the other side to actually SEE the >>buckle. The statue is from Stephani, called Female Donor, France 1463. The >>rest of the details are too fuzzy to read (no flash and no tripod, ugh!). >>Hope this helps somewhat! >> >>http://www.geocities.com/audreybmorin/Varia/images/P7060176.JPG >> > Good picture! Is that trim sewn down to act as a belt loop, do you think, > or just hanging over? (and is she carrying a baby, or playing a > bagpipe?!) > > Jean Wait! I'd totally forgotten that I'd taken a picture of the *front* too, I was so excited to be able to see the back! Here it is! http://www.geocities.com/audreybmorin/Varia/images/P7060179.JPG She's praying, not holding anything, except some kind of cloth under her right arm. As for the trim being sewn in place, somehown I think it's not, but it might be. At this point, your guess is as good as mine, unless someone else can help here :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 21:55:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j891tFeG028034 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:55:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j891svHf081806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j891sqgQ038543; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:54:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j891snct038475 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:54:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:54:43 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 01:54:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:54:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Sep 2005 01:54:43.0899 (UTC) FILETIME=[72F160B0:01C5B4E1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] History of colours X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Those who are interested in the history of "modern" colours might like a look at the following The Right Chemistry: Colors in Fashion, 1704-1918 http://dept.kent.edu/museum/exhibit/colors/main.htm Enjoy! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 8 23:57:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j893vI5G029449 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 23:57:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j893udSX091408 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:56:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j893uZFJ092260; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:56:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j893uTS7092197 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:56:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-115.cvip.net [129.8.205.115]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDEDB3D2 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 20:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050908194608.0372eef0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 20:55:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar In-Reply-To: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Annette, At 06:21 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: > I also like this one, but in a solid color. > http://www.lydia.org/~zaphod/sca/ionar.html <> >Is reconstructing history the only pattern available? As far as I've seen, yes at present. I understand there may be patterns in the works from another maker (not sure when), but I have seen written instructions from various booklets that are around that appear more like the ionar you liked above. I may have a couple in my files somewhere as well, mostly from Irish groups who give basic instructions to their members. >It looks somewhat simple - what skill level might be >necessary to create a pattern? (for someone with a >high level of aptitude for that sort of thing) It is very simple if you can make a jacket. In fact, my earlier ionars were modified men's jackets (some use a vest pattern and add the sleeves), cut above the waist to deal with the bunch of fabric at the waist often worn when a leine is hiked around the midsection, or the great kilt back-pleats. Make sure to measure the man while he is wearing actually wearing the kilt or leine. The skirting, which hangs over the leine or kilt, is a length of material knife pleated into place. The sleeves are modified modern sleeves (made thinner by about half) that tie to the ionar body, and don't actually get sewn into a real sleeve, but are allowed to remain open for the leine sleeves. Some people use a slender rectangle instead of a sleeve pattern. >..what sort of decoration was on the jackets - either >embroidered, or braid that was sewn on? That depends on how historically accurate you want to be. Many people like the "celtic knots" and hence embroider their garments with them, historically accurate or otherwise. Others simply add trim or cords or fringe that follow the known woodcuts. With so few images and surviving garments from history, it's hard to make a real general idea of what they did or did not do to adorn their garments. There is one woodcut image I have that shows the back views of four "scottish" ionar from Holinshed's Chronicle of 1577. One has something rather elaborate on the back of the ionar, kinda vine-like in motif on the ionar, with striped sleeves; one is plain; one has vertical stripes several inches apart both on ionar and sleeves; one has diagonal stripes several inches apart on ionar and sleeves. Their leine's appear more like the ones seen in the first image found here: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/irish/leine.html And she has the Holinshed image at the bottom of the same page. I can scan a larger version of the image if you want. And to add even more of a mess to the mix, various knowledgeable Irish re-enactors may or may not adhere to the theory that among the Irish, one's rank is seen by the number of colors worn in one's garment, up to seven colors, iirc, for the clan chief. How that many colors is shown on the garment is unclear. Maybe it was the colors woven into a multi-colored garment, or maybe it was the embroidery or trimmings added, or who really knows. This is supposedly based on Brehan (sp?) laws that I think actually date to an earlier time frame, but I do not claim any knowledge of those laws or how applicable they are to any given time frame. >..did the sleeves have ties only at the wrist or along >the full length, or were they only worn loose. That's hard to say, if basing it on the woodcuts, as they are not clearly shown. I've found that ties on the wrist, the elbow, and the ties that attach sleeve to jacket are the only ones really needed to keep the sleeve in position. Some remove the one at the elbow, if their leine sleeves are full and down to their wrists. >..how was it held closed in front - by belt, ties, or >a brooch? Depends on the woodcuts you base it on. The one I made for the Irish Bard was only held at the waist level with a decorative clasp. Most others appear to only close at the waist, but how exactly is unclear. One possible means is hook & eye hidden underneath. The Kilcommon jacket is a button with bound buttonhole. >..did it overlap like a bathrobe or like a jacket when >closed? If based on the woodcuts, it appears to meet in the middle at the waist, not overlapping. Otherwise, the ionar is usually V-necked and can't really meet anywhere else. That does not apply to the more jacket style extant garments (Kilcommon or Dungiven), which overlap like a jacket. >I realize the answers are subject to interpretation of >research and there are virtually no extant examples, >but any information is appreciated. > >Thanks, >Annette M I understand that as well. Kass' info is as clear, concise, and accurate as any other info I may have, and more so in many ways since she's actually worked with the surviving garments. We do differ a bit on interpretations of woodcuts, but that's ok. I think she gave enough clear info on the kilcommon jacket that you can use that info to recreate one of your own, either as is, or as a start. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 00:15:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j894F9P2029715 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j894EsaK093113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:14:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j894ErQD000892; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:14:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j894Eoob000861 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:14:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19845 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:36:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:36:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > >>I took a pic of the back of a statue in the Cluny Museum in Paris. Wow. I took at least 10 36-exposure rolls of film at the Cluny, and I don't remember this statue at all. (But it might be somewhere in the slides I haven't categorized.) > > Good picture! Is that trim sewn down to act as a belt loop, do you think, > > or just hanging over? (and is she carrying a baby, or playing a > > bagpipe?!) The trim is almost certainly the collar point hanging over. You see that in pictures too. I believe she is carrying a book wrapped in a cloth cover (a book "chemise"). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 02:50:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j896oDv6015069 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 02:50:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j896mLeS002473 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:48:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j896m4xP058818; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j896lxYM058772 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 16151 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Sep 2005 06:47:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BsYUEDCEO8/dIbOSI+Z2lDr3RY7nQAp5euqCh7bULcN7OuPoFCPsuu2ACRr31Am51e1u/VMOVQk+vr6jnVjiPhCDhnQtSNZ/mSGegGaFEPZAyRmTapG8Jfhx6ZovqgNgvegsSj1S44Apd4tvrsfjcrIgA+Uhd1t6Z7avarYuoq8= ; Message-ID: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:47:54 BST Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:47:54 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you all SO much - it's been very enlightening and highlighted the possible false economy of using overly pointy/stiff/scratchy boning. I had also forgotten the effigy corset was boned with baleen - and I think in terms of general experimentation I could go for zip ties with a relatively clear conscience. I'd rather use a non-period type of boning that won't injure me and is easily removed in future than waste my time on the bamboo. Let's face it, who has time to waste on sewing that gets ruined by cheapola materials? (Been there done that). Thanks again, it's been very helpful, Katherine ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 03:17:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j897HUXk024936 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 03:17:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j897GsQg003961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:16:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j897Grnp068953; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:16:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j897GoM6068931 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:16:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.81.6] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by smtpauth07.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EDd7w-0006gJ-B7 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 03:16:49 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050908225808.67546.qmail@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050908225808.67546.qmail@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:16:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bc74e590b752c434455e35363ca623ae3c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.81.6 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1071/Fri Sep 9 00:39:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1071/Fri Sep 9 00:39:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Public vs. Private Events (was: Catching up) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 3:58 PM -0700 9/8/05, Kahlara wrote: >SCA - from my limited esperience the SCA has evolved ... >An excerpt from an SCA article states, "...describe >the SCA as recreating the Middle Ages "as they ought >to have been." ....A better description is that we >selectively recreate medieval culture, choosing >elements of the culture that interest and attract us." >(from http://www.sca.org/sca-intro.html) "Selective recreation" is a much better description. The SCA is a place where each individual decides for themself what (if anything) they will re-create -- and to what (if any) level of historical accuracy. >And as Lilinah said, many events are open to the >public. An attempt to dress 'period' by visitors and >newcomers is appreciated and basic loaner garb is >provided. I took my niece to an event a couple of >weekends ago, and we found a wonderful "T" tunic type >dress for her to borrow that was quite accurate. (Was >also pleased that the little tom-boy commented the >dress was really comfortable!) Incredibly low participation requirements is not the same as being open to the public. If you get invited to come to a private party (whether in advance or as you wander by), once you accept that invitation you aren't a member of the general public anymore but a participant in the private party -- one of the people entertaining yourselves. SCA events are private parties where participants often invite random strangers to join the private party. This is very, very different from other historical re-creation groups & events such as renaissance fairs and many revolutionary, civil war, and other battle re-enactment societies. Usually at their events, there is one group of people who are participants and another, different group of people (the public) who are the audience, and one of the basic, intentional purposes of the event is for the participants to entertain the audience. Being solicited to come watch other people entertain you (as in a theater) is very different from being invited to join a private party and entertain yourself (with other likeminded people). (BTW, note that at a renaissance fair, although yes a significant number of the participants whose role is to entertain the audience are merchants trying to sell things, there is still a functional divide between participants [merchants and actors] vs. [paying] audience.) Another way to think of it is like this: at an SCA event, everybody at the event is expected to follow the same rules (e.g., with regard to dress, behavior, etc.). At other kinds of historical re-creation events, it is expected and there are different rules for participants than for the public/audience (with regard to dress, behavior, etc.). At such public events, members of the public are allowed to do things that participants are not allowed to do (e.g., wear entirely modern clothing, talk about modern things in modern language in front of the audience, and/or the like) and participants are allowed to do things that members of the public are not allowed to do (e.g., go back stage, go on stage, participate in the battle re-enactment itself, be on site before and after closing, and/or the like). Sharon, who has participated in renaissance fairs, battle re-enactment societies, and the SCA... -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 09:01:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89D1txQ002483 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:01:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89D1LEW039979 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:01:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89D1GbN096405; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:01:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89D1CK6096362 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:01:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j89D1BZX023810 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:01:11 -0400 Message-ID: <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:01:15 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When I was first starting back in the middle 90's and asking similar questions, Margo Anderson was very active on this list. It was her opinion that there were very good modern boning materials specifically made for the purpose and not to waste a whole lot of effort on "jerry rigging". (This BTW was before the corded corset "craze.") I have not used zip ties myself and I know a very successful "off the rack" period clothes producer who does use them because he can get them from a construction buddy for almost free. The biggest complaint I have heard about the cable ties is that if the ends are not properly treated (i.e. rounded off, melted or otherwise), they may still poke through. (I have seen this on many other's garments) As you know once this happens, it is hard to render a repair that looks very nice. I have long used both the enameled white bones and the spiral steel ones (still my favorite). Yes they may be heavier, but I have never had one poke through, and from a cost perspective, I would bet my paycheck that they are no more expensive than the cable ties purchased retail. I have a short pictorial tutorial on how to use the steel boning (putting the tips on, etc.) here: http://www.saragrace.net/3E_4_QEW_Corset.html in case anyone is interested. Best of luck! If you do a comparison on bulk boning vs cable ties, I'd be curious to hear the cost comparison! Sg > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 09:31:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89DVpR5002887 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:31:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89DVM1v042045 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:31:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89DVJlq010349; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:31:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89DVFIB010287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:31:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EDiy3-0000s8-7s; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:30:59 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:30:59 -0500 Message-ID: <20050909083059.x4q3w9svpnz4kgw4@www.goldsword.com> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:30:59 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] belted houppelandes References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Robin Netherton : > > On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, *somebody* wrote: > >> > Good picture! Is that trim sewn down to act as a belt loop, do you think, >> > or just hanging over? (and is she carrying a baby, or playing a >> > bagpipe?!) > > The trim is almost certainly the collar point hanging over. You see that > in pictures too. > I realize that we have *no* evidance whatsoever, but a great many of these gowns (when you can see the back that is) have this long collar point hanging over the belt -- it is *possible* that it was used as some sort of belt loop? Susan ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 11:08:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89F8XJG004845 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:08:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89F7sPL053051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:07:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89F7ogi067835; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j89F7h49067718 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:07:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 16132 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2005 15:45:49 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:45:49 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1057.67.188.164.116.1126278461.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <1d4.435f9cfb.3048a146@aol.com> References: <1d4.435f9cfb.3048a146@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:07:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Book 18th-20th Century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear list, I apologize if this was already mentioned on the list but....I was at my local Half Price Books store and I bought the Kyoto Costume Institute books (2 volumes) that covers 18th to 20th century and it was only $24.98! I live in Concord, CA and am not sure if they have many other stores or a website but if anyone really wants it and doesn't have access, I am willing to buy it and ship it to you for cost+tax+shipping. Contact me off-list and I will help you out. Cheers, Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 12:12:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89GCAtJ006039 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:12:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89GBL6E060030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:11:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89GBB9L013518; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:11:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j89GB7hh013465 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:11:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 20220 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2005 09:11:08 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 20213, pid: 20215, t: 0.1084s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1070 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 9 Sep 2005 09:11:08 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909090857.031aed60@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:10:59 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan Jurancich Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Wool crepe on sale X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Someone was looking for a source for black wool crepe. FabricMart has gold-colored worsted wool crepe on sale for $3.99 per yard. http://fabricmartfabrics.com/controller/this_weeks_special.php Since it is listed as 100% wool, it should be dyeable. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 12:43:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89Gh9js006599 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:43:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89GgZbE063805 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89GgKjw036762; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:42:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89GgCJI036625 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:42:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02777 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:42:10 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Book 18th-20th Century Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:42:05 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Book 18th-20th Century Thread-Index: AcW1UEZ1gD2YNmxyTrGp1traVxUkIAADI+sg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j89GgCJI036625 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My local Borders has the 2 volume set and also a smaller, less inclusive(just highlights)for those that don't want to spring for the original one volume, or new 2 volume, as part of the Fashion Icons series of books for about $16. The Icons book would make a nice gift to introduce someone to great pics of original costumes. The Japanese have a real reverence for fashion history. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Diana Habra Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Book 18th-20th Century Dear list, I apologize if this was already mentioned on the list but....I was at my local Half Price Books store and I bought the Kyoto Costume Institute books (2 volumes) that covers 18th to 20th century and it was only $24.98! I live in Concord, CA and am not sure if they have many other stores or a website but if anyone really wants it and doesn't have access, I am willing to buy it and ship it to you for cost+tax+shipping. Contact me off-list and I will help you out. Cheers, Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 13:21:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89HL16k007324 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:21:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89HKM51069944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:20:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89HK8E3067439; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:20:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89HJ7uX066432 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:20:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so1758499nzf for ; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=bZSo+gGhQV76yhV4QyJaRQTs+6Aikh5VkeR1HgSwb/YbNJhT9uHLsxSxhXXw4Y6BKu09I2U2SI8F5Zr7xBvVkKlgtrA7xB9uN+/sGgxaTqSJx6SzSMnQrCTbsInEktKmZdKNlX2AwbG5SZaUAD2dtDK8wV7VclUGnXM1VwOFQvU= Received: by 10.36.5.3 with SMTP id 3mr501726nze; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:19:00 -0700 From: Cin To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone In-Reply-To: <43209D5B.50805@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20050908211053.01d30550@127.0.0.1> <43209D5B.50805@thibault.org> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j89HJ7uX066432 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/8/05, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Someone on the H-Cost list a while back had some whalebone and described > it as "like a fingernail" but it was black. IIRC, "whalebone" for > corsets is the baleen, which are fairly regular in size, and thin, due > to the job they do for the whale. I could easily understand if > different sections of the baleen have different properties, though, and > maybe the ladle handles could have been made out of a thicker section, > or actual bones? Hey CV, Whalebone is not bone, it's baleen. Baleen comes from several different species of whale. Different species, different colors. The blue whale has the dark grey-black baleen in huge amounts. Excessive amounts of info can be found in books and on sites devoted to maritime collectibles. I found alot while searching up busks in whalebone, narwhal horn and other materials. There are some good French and Canadian maritime collectors' sites if you happen to read the language. After comments from Wanda, Suzi & others my current hypothesis is that the thickness of the baleen matters greatly. Seems like we're all describing the same blue whale baleen. Your point about different areas of the baleen is I suppose is reasonable supposition. I've never seen any "in whole cloth" so to speak. Hey, Kayta, you volunteer up at SF Maritime Museum. Do y'all have any displays on baleen up there? Are you demoing at Festival of the Sea tomorrow? --cin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 13:33:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89HXgpf007606 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89HW2Za071553 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:32:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89HVSam077262; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:31:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89HUPrR076339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:31:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j89HP4jf026157 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:25:04 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4321C6AE.7000103@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:30:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20050908211053.01d30550@127.0.0.1> <43209D5B.50805@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cin wrote: > Whalebone is not bone, it's baleen. Right. But whales have actual *bones* too - were these ever used for things? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 13:36:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89Ha2MR007658 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:36:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89HZVsd072020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:35:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89HZLim080625; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:35:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81401.mail.yahoo.com (web81401.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j89HZCFx080379 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:35:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 44896 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Sep 2005 17:35:00 -0000 Message-ID: <20050909173500.44894.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.33.141.26] by web81401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:35:00 PDT X-RocketYMMF: cybalshouse Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:35:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Doyle To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] changing silk red to orange X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi All I am adding to my doll collection with a lady I shall called "Lucretia" based on the painting by Lotto of the same title. This is that orange and green pieced gown. I have been trying to use fabrics in my stash or salvedged from old clothing since I'm keeping to silk, wool and linen for the costume elements. The problem I have is that orange is not a color I have in my stash or closet. I have the green, red and black in china silk, pretty lightweight stuff that I could use, that with proper lining will be okay. I'm just not sure what I need to do to bring my red to orange or rust color without killing the silk. or would I be better off switching to a new color scheme, like the red and black? I can do that, I was just hoping to stay as close to the original painting as possible. any suggestions welcomed alex _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 13:47:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89HlftS007809 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:47:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89HfXlN072826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89HQgtd073066; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:26:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89HPRiH071879 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC8DA3B5F9 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:00:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4321BFA6.6060607@reddawn.net> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:00:22 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kyoto Costume Book 18th-20th Century References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've seen it a couple places online as well, Taschen seems to have remaindered or closed out several of last year's editions and it's being discounted while it lasts. And my wonderful husband just presented me with a birthday copy. [WEG] Dawn Abel, Cynthia wrote: > My local Borders has the 2 volume set and also a smaller, less > inclusive(just highlights)for those that don't want to spring for the > original one volume, or new 2 volume, as part of the Fashion Icons > series of books for about $16. The Icons book would make a nice gift to > introduce someone to great pics of original costumes. The Japanese have > a real reverence for fashion history. > >> I apologize if this was already mentioned on the list but....I was at my >> local Half Price Books store and I bought the Kyoto Costume Institute >> books (2 volumes) that covers 18th to 20th century and it was only >> $24.98! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 15:16:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89JGSHb009437 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:16:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89JFrHN083160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:15:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89JFa6j058017; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:15:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sm4app04.siteprotect.com (sm4app04.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89JFTgQ057921 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:15:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from sm4app04.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm4app04.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130F57D76 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:15:28 -0500 (CDT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone?= X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:15:28 -0500 X-Uidl: edcaf02205090910194a572fc7@mail.gmail.com X-Mailer: AtMail 5.1.2 Message-Id: <20050909191528.130F57D76@sm4app04.siteprotect.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j89JFTgQ057921 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a chunk of baleen that a friend brought back from Alaska. This is a small 'tooth'. It is blue-black in color, 1" thick at the base, decreasing in thickness out to the long 'hairs' that protrude from the end. I learned from an associate who works with baleen stays that the 'bones' are cut with a baleen knife (yes, there is such an implement - it's wicked sharp), and the cuts are made along both grains of the larger piece; i.e. my chunk would be first cut into pieces 1/4" wide and 1" thick (at the base), then sliced again to make 'bones' 1/4" wide and 1/16" or 1/8" thick, then cut to the finished length. The thick portion of my chunk is very solid; the baleen becomes progressively more flexible as it thins. The handles on the silverware mentioned in a previous post were probably carved from the thicker section of a piece of baleen. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2 -5, 2006 >After comments from Wanda, Suzi & others my current hypothesis is that >the thickness of the baleen matters greatly. Seems like we're all >describing the same blue whale baleen. Your point about different >areas of the baleen is I suppose is reasonable supposition. I've never >seen any "in whole cloth" so to speak. > >--cin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 15:23:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89JNSXC009571 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:23:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89JMi9M083893 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89JMhvi063296; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:22:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j89JMW14063127 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:22:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 15986 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2005 19:21:37 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:21:37 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1223.67.188.164.116.1126293744.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: <20050909173500.44894.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050909173500.44894.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] changing silk red to orange From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm just not sure what I need to do to bring my red to orange or rust > color without killing the silk. > > or would I be better off switching to a new color scheme, like the red > and black? I can do that, I was just hoping to stay as close to the > original painting as possible. I don't know if you work with Rit dye much but overdyeing your silk with yellow dye should give you an orange. Now if your red silk is very dark red, you will not get the nice medium orange/rust that the painting shows. But if it is a basic red, you may have some luck just by adding the yellow. You could also try a natural yellow dye, too. It would be much more involved but it might be fun to try! Hope that helps, Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 15:37:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89JbfPk009756 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89JbOja085460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:37:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89JbKl4074010; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:37:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89JbEH6073934 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:37:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j89JbDZX028217 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:37:13 -0400 Message-ID: <4321E46E.3080404@msn.com> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:37:18 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] changing silk red to orange References: <20050909173500.44894.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050909173500.44894.qmail@web81401.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Naaaah, don't switch your scheme! Overdying is easy, but you may only get a dark red rust rather than that deep pumpkin in the original. I frequently use the "Bronze" color Procion dye from Dharma to tone colors down a bit. It really depends on how deep your red is, but PR-33 (rust brown) might just do the trick. http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3796-AA.shtml They have silk dyes too, but they are more expensive. Even though the color charts for the Procion are for Cotton, Rayon and Linen, they seem to be very close for silk as well. Also, for such small pieces you might be able to find a silk in your stash that you could start out from scratch with? I often go to the thrift stores to buy silk and linen shirts for small projects. You can often find just what you are looking for 3-5 bucks! Also, your basic chemicals like salt (I use solar panel salt-cheaper by the pound than regular salt) and soda ash (check the pool section at Waldo Mart) can be purchased locally. Synthropol is really the only thing you might want to buy from them besides the dye itself. Casoline oil is optional. Sg Alex Doyle wrote: >Hi All > >I am adding to my doll collection with a lady I shall called "Lucretia" >based on the painting by Lotto of the same title. This is that orange >and green pieced gown. > >I have been trying to use fabrics in my stash or salvedged from old >clothing since I'm keeping to silk, wool and linen for the costume >elements. The problem I have is that orange is not a color I have in >my stash or closet. I have the green, red and black in china silk, >pretty lightweight stuff that I could use, that with proper lining will >be okay. > >I'm just not sure what I need to do to bring my red to orange or rust >color without killing the silk. > >or would I be better off switching to a new color scheme, like the red >and black? I can do that, I was just hoping to stay as close to the >original painting as possible. > >any suggestions welcomed > >alex >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 16:06:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89K6RKw010281 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:06:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89K5rwv088434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:05:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89K5iZ9094778; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:05:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89K5atX094596 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:05:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.1df.437411c3 (3940) for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:05:23 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1df.437411c3.30534503@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:05:23 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] changing silk red to orange To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/9/2005 3:23:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dch@inreach.com writes: I don't know if you work with Rit dye much but overdyeing your silk with yellow dye should give you an orange. Yes, yellow and red make orange. [I can't understand why the color wheel is so confusing to people] but I would go with a dye made for silk...and for cold water. See what Dharma Trading Co. has. _http://www.dharmatrading.com/_ (http://www.dharmatrading.com/) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 17:40:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j89LeMtS011773 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j89LcS50000536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89LbbJs065178; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j89LbSZ4064905 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:37:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so1810654nzf for ; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=BCyXp9Uud5AwYvqZ/dQH/BPFKRoaDVrMB8Sz2QsuEAH2HoPAnKM1XrTmv94F73arqVFfGifqxiuS3gCl5douufp/oMUQzXK++y0q55dSd79egGuWFW9NAI/osrWd3jfV2+F4V8DO0/ZmO1lhBH3t3Fmmy18y2912HKPvj8ZgZHU= Received: by 10.36.58.2 with SMTP id g2mr729403nza; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:37:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:37:15 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j89LbSZ4064905 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Right. But whales have actual *bones* too - were these >ever used for things? Ah sorry missed your point. Dunno. I'd check the nautical collectors & books for scrim, certainly. As for clothing, no idea. Never looked. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 20:33:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A0XDJH014628 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:33:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A0WjM2016837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:32:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A0WcPh063461; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:32:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A0WXXS063374 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.141]) by mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050910003227.MBJM28153.mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:32:27 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([219.89.185.199]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050910003226.USID5449.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:32:26 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.10.20]); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:32:34 +1200 Message-ID: <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:32:33 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The biggest complaint I have heard > about the cable ties is that if the ends are not properly treated (i.e. > rounded off, melted or otherwise), they may still poke through. (I have > seen this on many other's garments) As you know once this happens, it is > hard to render a repair that looks very nice. Honestly it happens with any boning that isn't properly treated;) Regular German Boning (ends rounded off), rigiline (end melted or taped some way), Steel that hasn't been rounded, usually before you get them of course;) ) spiral steel without the ends... etc etc. I prefer cable ties to regular boning because it's cheaper and easier to cut. I can actually cut them in the first place! I have long used both the > enameled white bones and the spiral steel ones (still my favorite). Yes > they may be heavier, but I have never had one poke through, and from a > cost perspective, I would bet my paycheck that they are no more > expensive than the cable ties purchased retail. I dunno... I did my Effigy corset (120 odd bones, some cut from the same piece) at around $NZ 30. $NZ 1 at the moment is hovering around the 70USc mark. The most expensive I pay is $NZ 7 for a pack of 25 (368mm by 2.3mm) and I can get a pack of 50 450mm by 2.5mm for $NZ 15. And cheaper wholesale through a friend. I also have to import steel bones into this country which makes them obscenely expensive. I have health reasons for prefering the softer plastic which en masse creates good support without oppressing the ribs. I am making an 1890s corset and will use cable ties everywhere except the centre front and back. The front will use steel and the back will be something I haven't quite decided on yet;) I just know it needs to be heavier for the lacing. I've had issues with real buckling there before. micheala de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.20/95 - Release Date: 9/09/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 21:29:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A1TWRt015429 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:29:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A1T5oE020880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:29:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A1T4S1086198; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:29:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A1SwLi086149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:29:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8A1SqP8018803; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:28:55 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Katherine Barich" , "H-Costume" , "Cathedral" Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:37:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Moda a Firenze X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm not having a lot of luck ordering this from the museum. Someone mentioned that they had gotten it through one of the on-line booksellers. I've tried Bibiofind and bookfinder and no luck so I've probably remembered it wrong. Evil Katherine brought a copy to the Project night on Thursday and I really have to have this book! Wanda Pease/Regina Romsey Never attribute to malice what can as easily be attributed to simple social ineptness _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 21:40:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A1eJu9015608 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:40:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A1drha021691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A1dp8N090071; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:39:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web54707.mail.yahoo.com (web54707.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8A1dn0t090011 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:39:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from carolscostuming5@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 61772 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Sep 2005 01:39:43 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Cwt6D/zTms/4Iwmwe0U9jJGo3bMQSEM5oE4aHOq700eJznNXdwWN97uV//zysT2YS0JaPaK0kxZj4G2KGYThn1xFhOHvbgUXOiazAZktE5ZBGfA0KPRbKTg9/U35RIoNbatfdpacNADD/fO5grtnhAvmSoiIRRixTLQjhbRnpLg= ; Message-ID: <20050910013943.61770.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.107.144.114] by web54707.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:39:43 PDT Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:39:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509081803.j88I0NL7023234@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] vintage costume X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does anyone know how to post to the vintage mailing list at indra.com? When I tried to post a reminder about this weekend's vintage show in Elgin, IL, I got an error message. Does the list still exist? Thanks Carol Mitchell Carol Mitchell listowner Costumemidwest www.yahoogroups.com/group/costumemidwest --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 22:05:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A25FQW015959 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:05:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A24pHC023626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:04:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A24oQL099652; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:04:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A24jAW099616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:04:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-152.sonic.net [209.148.113.152]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A24iSW021964 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:04:44 -0700 Message-ID: <43223F3E.8050605@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:04:46 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moda a Firenze References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fred Struthers/Books on Cloth carries a lot of museum catalogs, and can sometimes be persuaded to special order. His email address is fsbks@mcn.org. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Wanda Pease wrote: >I'm not having a lot of luck ordering this from the museum. Someone >mentioned that they had gotten it through one of the on-line booksellers. >I've tried Bibiofind and bookfinder and no luck so I've probably remembered >it wrong. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 22:07:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A27eOf015997 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A27QO3023830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:07:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A27QFG000693; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:07:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A27PQk000688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz@net.indra.com) Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.12.9/Submit) id j8A27PEC000685 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from eliz) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:07:25 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lear To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] vintage costume Message-ID: <20050910020725.GA98564@net.indra.com> References: <200509081803.j88I0NL7023234@net.indra.com> <20050910013943.61770.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20050910013943.61770.qmail@web54707.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The list is still there. Send me a copy of the error you're receiving. ...eliz -- Children are made up of genetics, blind luck, and the stories you tell them. - The Flying Ks _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 22:32:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A2WW2N016300 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:32:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A2W0gM025892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A2VxBW009903; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:31:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A2VupE009880 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:31:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from skrossa-ml@medievalscotland.org) Received: from [68.164.95.53] (helo=[192.168.0.6]) by smtpauth09.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EDv9n-00089D-Gy for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:31:55 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050908194608.0372eef0@64.87.54.245> References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050908194608.0372eef0@64.87.54.245> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:31:26 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: "Sharon L. Krossa" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: a9d6c443a8acfb00d780f4a490ca69563f9fea00a6dd62bcb0bee2d1f0916c6a9dbb7245bf309a92350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.95.53 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 8:55 PM -0700 9/8/05, Kimiko Small wrote: >And to add even more of a mess to the mix, various knowledgeable >Irish re-enactors may or may not adhere to the theory that among the >Irish, one's rank is seen by the number of colors worn in one's >garment, up to seven colors, iirc, for the clan chief. How that many >colors is shown on the garment is unclear. Maybe it was the colors >woven into a multi-colored garment, or maybe it was the embroidery >or trimmings added, or who really knows. This is supposedly based on >Brehan (sp?) laws that I think actually date to an earlier time >frame, but I do not claim any knowledge of those laws or how >applicable they are to any given time frame. The color thing is a medieval legend about events thousands of years earlier -- in other words, about as relevant to late medieval Irish clothing as Old Testament stories are to late medieval Irish clothing. Specifically, the number of colors = ranks theory among modern historical re-creators has its origins in entries in the Irish Annals of the Four Masters which claimed that Eochaidh Eadghadhach in the "year of the world 3664" -- that is, about 1530 *B.C.* -- "ordered that the colours of clothes worn should denote the wearer's rank in society: 'one colour in the clothes of slaves, two in the clothes of soldiers, three in the clothes of goodly heroes or young lords of territories, six in the clothes of ollavs [professional men], seven in the clothes of kings and queens.'" [Dunlevy, _Dress in Ireland_ p. 16] However, this is purely legendary, recorded millennia after the events supposedly happened, and even if taken as historically accurate is talking about a time period about three _millennia_ before the era depicted in the woodcuts discussed above. Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 9 23:41:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A3fFRo017280 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 23:41:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A3eZoH034729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A3eUQ1051604; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:40:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp.inreach.com (smtp.inreach.com [209.142.2.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8A3ePJ1051549 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:40:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dch@inreach.com) Received: (qmail 6903 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2005 03:39:37 -0000 Received: from [209.142.2.163] (HELO www.inreach.com) (209.142.2.163) by smtp.inreach.com (qpsmtpd/0.28) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Sep 2005 20:39:37 -0700 Received: from 67.188.164.116 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dch@inreach.com) by www.inreach.com with HTTP; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1532.67.188.164.116.1126323625.squirrel@www.inreach.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moda a Firenze From: "Diana Habra" To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm not having a lot of luck ordering this from the museum. Someone > mentioned that they had gotten it through one of the on-line booksellers. > I've tried Bibiofind and bookfinder and no luck so I've probably > remembered > it wrong. > > Evil Katherine brought a copy to the Project night on Thursday and I > really > have to have this book! Yes you do! It is really fabulous... I got mine through Abe Books. Give them a try. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net "Everything for the Costumer" _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 00:13:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A4Dq1l017707 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 00:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A4DSC4037626 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:13:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A4DQOf069409; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:13:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A4DNhX069376 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-115.cvip.net [129.8.205.115]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6311D112B7 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050909211120.0376ebc8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:13:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar In-Reply-To: References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050908194608.0372eef0@64.87.54.245> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you Sharon for clarifying that for me. I never did know when it was, or even that I had a copy of it in my own book (really gotta read the earlier sections again). Now I know better, and hence, can do better. Kimiko At 07:31 PM 9/9/2005, you wrote: >The color thing is a medieval legend about events thousands of years >earlier -- in other words, about as relevant to late medieval Irish >clothing as Old Testament stories are to late medieval Irish clothing. > >Specifically, the number of colors = ranks theory among modern historical >re-creators has its origins in entries in the Irish Annals of the Four >Masters which claimed that Eochaidh Eadghadhach in the "year of the world >3664" -- that is, about 1530 *B.C.* -- "ordered that the colours of >clothes worn should denote the wearer's rank in society: 'one colour in >the clothes of slaves, two in the clothes of soldiers, three in the >clothes of goodly heroes or young lords of territories, six in the clothes >of ollavs [professional men], seven in the clothes of kings and queens.'" >[Dunlevy, _Dress in Ireland_ p. 16] However, this is purely legendary, >recorded millennia after the events supposedly happened, and even if taken >as historically accurate is talking about a time period about three >_millennia_ before the era depicted in the woodcuts discussed above. > >Sharon >-- >Sharon Krossa, skrossa-ml@MedievalScotland.org >Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: > Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 03:24:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8A7OFbt031219 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:24:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8A7Ni1a051435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:23:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A7NeDT040321; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:23:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A7NbtD040299 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:23:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA31623 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:45:55 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:45:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moda a Firenze In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Wanda Pease wrote: > I'm not having a lot of luck ordering this from the museum. Someone > mentioned that they had gotten it through one of the on-line booksellers. > I've tried Bibiofind and bookfinder and no luck so I've probably remembered > it wrong. Try here: http://www.artbooks.com Search on "Moda a Firenze". Pricey, though. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 07:04:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AB4TdH008075 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:04:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AB460c093975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 05:04:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AB41so023925; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 05:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8A4Txft075922 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 22:30:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8A4TtNR027697 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:29:56 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:38:39 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a small baleen "frond" guaranteed to have been harvested pre-ban. You can also buy it legally from Alaskan natives or those with the right to harvest whales for survival. The butt end of this frond is about 3/4" thick and it is fairly rigid there. The whole thing reminds me of the descriptions of rhino horn in that it is hair all stuck together. The Baleen is like that. The fibers run lengthwise and are stuck together by something like your fingernail. It will strip along the grain fairly easily. The grain also gives it strength along with flexibility. Regina (nuke the gay baby whales) Romsey > > > Whalebone is not bone, it's baleen. Baleen comes from several > different species of whale. Different species, different colors. The > blue whale has the dark grey-black baleen in huge amounts. Excessive > amounts of info can be found in books and on sites devoted to maritime > collectibles. I found alot while searching up busks in whalebone, > narwhal horn and other materials. There are some good French and > Canadian maritime collectors' sites if you happen to read the > language. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 08:56:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ACuTmt026578 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:56:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ACtvdk000551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ACtruw059000; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:55:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ACtnXv058953 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:55:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A7CE01FC; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:55:42 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.145 ([209.131.80.145] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 Sep 05 12:55:33 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c5b607$6500ba60$915083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:58:49 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Am I really off the wall to be remembering that most/ much of traditional scrimshaw was done with whalebone? Especially the larger pieces? The whaling museum in New Bedford, Ma. might be a good site to answer this question. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cin" To: "h-cost" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone > >Right. But whales have actual *bones* too - were these > >ever used for things? > Ah sorry missed your point. Dunno. I'd check the nautical collectors > & books for scrim, certainly. As for clothing, no idea. Never looked. > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 09:07:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AD7oYR027185 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AD7QrV001213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:07:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AD7Paj062712; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:07:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AD7LUS062668 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:07:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AA820224; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:07:14 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.145 ([209.131.80.145] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 Sep 05 13:07:10 -0000 Message-ID: <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:10:26 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you use any "dip-it" also found in the hardware store to "pad" the ends? I used this (latex?) product with some good effect in preparing hoop wire before inserting it in the channels. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening > > The biggest complaint I have heard > > about the cable ties is that if the ends are not properly treated (i.e. > > rounded off, melted or otherwise), they may still poke through. (I have > > seen this on many other's garments) As you know once this happens, it is > > hard to render a repair that looks very nice. > > Honestly it happens with any boning that isn't properly treated;) Regular > German Boning (ends rounded off), rigiline (end melted or taped some way), > Steel that hasn't been rounded, usually before you get them of course;) ) > spiral steel without the ends... etc etc. > > I prefer cable ties to regular boning because it's cheaper and easier to > cut. I can actually cut them in the first place! > > I have long used both the > > enameled white bones and the spiral steel ones (still my favorite). Yes > > they may be heavier, but I have never had one poke through, and from a > > cost perspective, I would bet my paycheck that they are no more > > expensive than the cable ties purchased retail. > > I dunno... > > I did my Effigy corset (120 odd bones, some cut from the same piece) at > around $NZ 30. $NZ 1 at the moment is hovering around the 70USc mark. > > The most expensive I pay is $NZ 7 for a pack of 25 (368mm by 2.3mm) and I > can get a pack of 50 450mm by 2.5mm for $NZ 15. And cheaper wholesale > through a friend. > > I also have to import steel bones into this country which makes them > obscenely expensive. > > I have health reasons for prefering the softer plastic which en masse > creates good support without oppressing the ribs. > > I am making an 1890s corset and will use cable ties everywhere except the > centre front and back. The front will use steel and the back will be > something I haven't quite decided on yet;) I just know it needs to be > heavier for the lacing. I've had issues with real buckling there before. > > micheala de bruce > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.20/95 - Release Date: 9/09/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 09:13:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ADDbWS027262 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:13:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ADDMJj001573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:13:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ADDKM5064831; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8ADDFVi064775 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:13:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 34480 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2005 13:13:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2005 13:13:09 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:13:11 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening In-Reply-To: <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:10 10/09/2005, you wrote: >Do you use any "dip-it" also found in the hardware store to "pad" the ends? >I used this (latex?) product with some good effect in preparing hoop wire >before inserting it in the channels. Michaela wrote > > > The biggest complaint I have heard > > > about the cable ties is that if the ends are not properly treated (i.e. > > > rounded off, melted or otherwise), they may still poke through. (I have > > > seen this on many other's garments) As you know once this happens, it is > > > hard to render a repair that looks very nice. > > > > Honestly it happens with any boning that isn't properly treated;) Regular > > German Boning (ends rounded off), rigiline (end melted or taped some way), > > Steel that hasn't been rounded, usually before you get them of course;) ) > > spiral steel without the ends... etc etc. Huge snip Can anyone give a brand name for this? It would be a godsend to me, as I have 5 farthingales to make in the next month or so, and "Farthingales" connectors - wouldn't you know - don't fit the steel I buy here in England. (Please don't suggest I buy steel from Farthingales - the postage costs and customs duty would be prohibitive.) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 09:21:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ADLbvH027543 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:21:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ADLIsu001989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:21:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ADLHqa067445; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:21:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51313.mail.yahoo.com (web51313.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.123]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8ADLFlr067424 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:21:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18679 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Sep 2005 13:21:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=oogRpR/VrF/7nDo/i66CbzXQSKES3lbn4TxTofyx7Tn/HWdFCKmtTupxFEor2XKqks3q9OZ+Krh92I0xXE10kpaGsPrb5C6IsaPdoF7NqCxzD5OK+dhiXAd/iHtGS7dv7ObehPyroSe/vLPLurOdUBvphbbnIcKSlqpCsCTEbQk= ; Message-ID: <20050910132110.18677.qmail@web51313.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51313.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:21:10 PDT Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:21:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <002101c5b607$6500ba60$915083d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whale teeth, from toothed whales, obviously, such at the very desirable sperm whale, and ivory, from walrus & other sources (also teeth, of course). Surely on other surfaces, too, but those are the materials I remember. A brief "googling" turns up ivory--whale teeth & walrus tusks--as a modern & nineteenth century medium to put scrimshaw on. Modern scrimshaw'rs (??) also use fossil mammoth ivory, vegetable 'ivory, and hippo tusks. Not baleen, not bone. I just was looking at some scrimshaw at Old Mystic Seaport in Mystic, CT two weeks ago, but no guarantees. Ann in CT --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Am I really off the wall to be remembering that > most/ much of traditional > scrimshaw was done with whalebone? Especially the > larger pieces? The > whaling museum in New Bedford, Ma. might be a good > site to answer this > question. > > Kathleen __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 10:40:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AEeNBc029549 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:40:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AEdjxA007123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AEdfMa095743; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:39:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AEdbif095688 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:39:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A02001EC; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:39:28 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.149 ([209.131.80.149] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 Sep 05 14:39:17 -0000 Message-ID: <000f01c5b615$e2ca3bc0$955083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050910132110.18677.qmail@web51313.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:42:33 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In the New Bedford museum, I am remembering in particular, a hinged yarn winder that had some pieces that were at least a foot long. Were there teeth this long? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Catelli" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone > > Whale teeth, from toothed whales, obviously, such at > the very desirable sperm whale, and ivory, from walrus > & other sources (also teeth, of course). > > Surely on other surfaces, too, but those are the > materials I remember. > > A brief "googling" turns up ivory--whale teeth & > walrus tusks--as a modern & nineteenth century medium > to put scrimshaw on. > Modern scrimshaw'rs (??) also use fossil mammoth > ivory, vegetable 'ivory, and hippo tusks. > > Not baleen, not bone. > > > I just was looking at some scrimshaw at Old Mystic > Seaport in Mystic, CT two weeks ago, but no > guarantees. > > Ann in CT > > --- Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > > > Am I really off the wall to be remembering that > > most/ much of traditional > > scrimshaw was done with whalebone? Especially the > > larger pieces? The > > whaling museum in New Bedford, Ma. might be a good > > site to answer this > > question. > > > > Kathleen > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 11:05:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AF5WlN030286 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:05:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AF59dB009384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:05:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AF58vQ005974; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:05:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AF54cg005949 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:05:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8AF52ZX023669 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:05:02 -0400 Message-ID: <4322F625.9030607@msn.com> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:05:09 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1073/Fri Sep 9 09:13:08 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1073/Fri Sep 9 09:13:08 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've tried it on enamel boning after cutting it...not that great, but better than the bare bone. I've never thought to use it on hoop wire. I usually put a metal tip on the end, but they are a booger to keep on, even with metal glue. I understand now there are joiners. I've seen them, but not used them personally. I will be giving them a whirl here in the next few weeks. Sg Lloyd Mitchell wrote: >Do you use any "dip-it" also found in the hardware store to "pad" the ends? >I used this (latex?) product with some good effect in preparing hoop wire >before inserting it in the channels. > >Kathleen > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 11:13:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AFDEIb030386 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:13:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AFCs6J010382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:12:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AFC8IE010085; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:12:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AFBTg8009470 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:11:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8AFBSZX002571 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:11:29 -0400 Message-ID: <4322F7A8.90602@msn.com> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:11:36 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO *Here is one: http://tinyurl.com/7oglw (Dip & Grip)* Greenberg & Hammer also offers some in a 1/2 pint. I'd look it up for you, but their online store is down right now. Ask at a hardware store for "tool dip". Curious, what kind of steel boning do you get "over there?" Sg > > Huge snip > > Can anyone give a brand name for this? It would be a godsend to me, as > I have 5 farthingales to make in the next month or so, and > "Farthingales" connectors - wouldn't you know - don't fit the steel I > buy here in England. (Please don't suggest I buy steel from > Farthingales - the postage costs and customs duty would be prohibitive.) > > Suzi > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 11:50:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AFoaSq031120 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AFo440013171 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:50:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AFo0iT025529; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:50:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8AFnvHL025490 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:49:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBUGADGAVTZKD2 for (sender ); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K4J2L23K; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:48:07 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:40:35 -0500 Message-ID: <20050910.104035.-114371405.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,6-9 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 2:3:1688431392 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn71YTtz7FI/pisGWuW6RbgZtpCwUYiRHlRQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th Century Use of Leather X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I recently bought a big chunk of leather in a sort of silvery taupe shade. While the smooth side is nice, the color takes on a truly gorgeous quality on the suede side. Was the suede/flesh side of leather used in 16th century England, or was the smoother hair side preferred? We are talking about using it for clothing, of course. I was thinking of a nice doublet for a new hunting gown....... Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 12:18:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AGIKZv031586 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:18:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AGHuMO015091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:17:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AGHs4q036678; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:17:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AGHpS9036558 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:17:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A7280204; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:17:44 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.143 ([209.131.80.143] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 Sep 05 16:17:39 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c5b623$a0804a80$8f5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com><4321879B.3090004@msn.com><006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela><005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:20:55 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi, the product I use is "Plasti Dip". They can be found at www.plastidip.com. I found it at Home Depot, which by your location would probably not be a source. The product advertises itself for "auto,home and garden,RV.and marine, and for other power sports." (Note, not for costumers) But then, I don't suppose commercial strapping is supposed to take a costumer's eye, either. But I would bet that a good hardware store or specialty shops for some of the above users would be a able to off this product...or whatever its equivelent is in the U.K. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening > At 14:10 10/09/2005, you wrote: > >Do you use any "dip-it" also found in the hardware store to "pad" the ends? > >I used this (latex?) product with some good effect in preparing hoop wire > >before inserting it in the channels. > > Michaela wrote > > > > > The biggest complaint I have heard > > > > about the cable ties is that if the ends are not properly treated (i.e. > > > > rounded off, melted or otherwise), they may still poke through. (I have > > > > seen this on many other's garments) As you know once this happens, it is > > > > hard to render a repair that looks very nice. > > > > > > Honestly it happens with any boning that isn't properly treated;) Regular > > > German Boning (ends rounded off), rigiline (end melted or taped some way), > > > Steel that hasn't been rounded, usually before you get them of course;) ) > > > spiral steel without the ends... etc etc. > > Huge snip > > Can anyone give a brand name for this? It would be a godsend to me, > as I have 5 farthingales to make in the next month or so, and > "Farthingales" connectors - wouldn't you know - don't fit the steel I > buy here in England. (Please don't suggest I buy steel from > Farthingales - the postage costs and customs duty would be prohibitive.) > > Suzi > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 13:09:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AH9sZ4032348 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:09:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AH9O5i019528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:09:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AH9LUm058240; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:09:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8AH9H6J058184 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:09:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 64675 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2005 17:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2005 17:09:11 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050910180525.01d28f58@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:09:12 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening In-Reply-To: <4322F7A8.90602@msn.com> References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> <4322F7A8.90602@msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 16:11 10/09/2005, you wrote: > *Here is one: http://tinyurl.com/7oglw (Dip & Grip)* > > Greenberg & Hammer also offers some in a 1/2 pint. I'd look it up > for you, but their online store is down right now. Ask at a > hardware store for "tool dip". > > > Curious, what kind of steel boning do you get "over there?" > > Sg It's exactly the same as Farthingales sell, but a different gauge. It is a fraction of an inch narrower, so the connectors don't hold. In a cage hoop, which is what I originally wanted them for, this is a major problem. It might not be so much of a problem for a farthingale, and I may well buy some and try with glue of some kind. Thanks for the info re. "Dip and Grip". Now to see if I can find anything similar in England - we are sooo behind with stuff like that it is ridiculous! suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 13:31:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AHV5NF032704 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:31:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AHUlNo021332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:30:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AHUkAO066574; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:30:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AHUewE066543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:30:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8AHUd9X014396 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:30:39 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:39:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000f01c5b615$e2ca3bc0$955083d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I lived in Alaska for far too short a time: 1970-1972 but I happened to fall in with a "crash pad" style household that included ivory and native arts traders, a State Senator (occasionally), real estate salesman (wanna buy a genuine piece of Alaska?), etc. At that time I picked up a walrus tusk (2 foot long). That was the smallest of the ones he had. Others measured up to 4 feet. The butt end of the tusk was hollow where it fit over the root or bone or whatever they are fixed to in the animal's mouth. I also have some scrimshaw on both walrus ivory, mammoth ivory, baleen, and walrus skull bone. I gave a pass to the vegetable ivory he had imported from Taiwan which is where most of the currently available "new" scrimshaw is coming from. If you do want to buy this art be very careful of your source since it can be neither old, nor ivory. Regina Romsey > -----Original Message----- > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:43 AM > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone > > > In the New Bedford museum, I am remembering in particular, a hinged yarn > winder that had some pieces that were at least a foot long. Were there > teeth this long? > > Kathleen > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 13:40:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AHe29N000344 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:40:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AHdibc021899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:39:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AHdgSN069805; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:39:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AHdcuk069777 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:39:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8AHdbZX003887 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:39:37 -0400 Message-ID: <43231A60.90906@msn.com> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:39:44 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> <4322F7A8.90602@msn.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910180525.01d28f58@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050910180525.01d28f58@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > It's exactly the same as Farthingales sell, but a different gauge. It > is a fraction of an inch narrower, so the connectors don't hold. In a > cage hoop, which is what I originally wanted them for, this is a major > problem. It might not be so much of a problem for a farthingale, and I > may well buy some and try with glue of some kind. > Are we talking hoop boning, or corset boning? In the former case, the steel hoop boning over here doesn't hold the tips well either. I have found that the spiral steel corset boning holds the tips well if you use a particular method of attaching them....don't know if you saw the link to my tutorial earlier. I have had less success with using the tips on the flat white enameled corset boning, but have managed to make them stay on. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 13:57:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AHv4Wh000508 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:57:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AHuivV023084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:56:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AHuhJ8076776; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:56:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8AHudaE076426 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:56:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 63066 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2005 17:56:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 2005 17:56:33 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050910184916.01d2a468@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:56:33 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening In-Reply-To: <43231A60.90906@msn.com> References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> <4322F7A8.90602@msn.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910180525.01d28f58@127.0.0.1> <43231A60.90906@msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:39 10/09/2005, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: > >>It's exactly the same as Farthingales sell, but a different gauge. >>It is a fraction of an inch narrower, so the connectors don't hold. >>In a cage hoop, which is what I originally wanted them for, this is >>a major problem. It might not be so much of a problem for a >>farthingale, and I may well buy some and try with glue of some kind. >Are we talking hoop boning, or corset boning? In the former case, >the steel hoop boning over here doesn't hold the tips well >either. I have found that the spiral steel corset boning holds the >tips well if you use a particular method of attaching them....don't >know if you saw the link to my tutorial earlier. I have had less >success with using the tips on the flat white enameled corset >boning, but have managed to make them stay on. I'm talking about the connectors for hoop steel for crinolines and farthingales/pocket hoops/panniers. Spiral steel tips are not a problem any more since I taught myself to use two pairs of pliers, one in each hand!! (Before your tutorial - I wish I'd seen that first - would have saved hours of cussin' ) As for the enamelled steel corset bones, well, they come ready tipped here, so have not been a problem. The whalebones have straight ends cut across the grain, and are like that in the corset. One of them poked through, which is how I found out it was whalebone, but as I said, it was made before the ban on whalebone, early in 1970's I guess. (So it was available then.) On of my strips was analysed for a research programme being done by a professor, but try as I might I cannot find the copy of the analysis. If I ever find it, I will post the information to the list, as I am sure some people would be interested. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 14:28:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AISKbX000930 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:28:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AIRo8v025080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:27:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AIRl9I089233; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:27:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AIRbbt089151 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:27:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A5930198; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:27:31 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.157 ([209.131.80.157] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 10 Sep 05 18:27:19 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c5b635$be05cbe0$9d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:30:34 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Like the 'feather trade' relating to the sale or trade of these products on the endangered species lists, I thought that only Native Americans or First Nation peoples were the only ones who have a legal right to collect and use them for cultural preservation. Was the State Senator involved in this trading!!? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 1:39 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone > I lived in Alaska for far too short a time: 1970-1972 but I happened to > fall in with a "crash pad" style household that included ivory and native > arts traders, a State Senator (occasionally), real estate salesman (wanna > buy a genuine piece of Alaska?), etc. At that time I picked up a walrus > tusk (2 foot long). That was the smallest of the ones he had. Others > measured up to 4 feet. The butt end of the tusk was hollow where it fit > over the root or bone or whatever they are fixed to in the animal's mouth. > > I also have some scrimshaw on both walrus ivory, mammoth ivory, baleen, and > walrus skull bone. I gave a pass to the vegetable ivory he had imported > from Taiwan which is where most of the currently available "new" scrimshaw > is coming from. If you do want to buy this art be very careful of your > source since it can be neither old, nor ivory. > > Regina Romsey > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Lloyd Mitchell > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:43 AM > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone > > > > > > In the New Bedford museum, I am remembering in particular, a hinged yarn > > winder that had some pieces that were at least a foot long. Were there > > teeth this long? > > > > Kathleen > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 14:57:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AIvhiV001292 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:57:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AIvH72027023 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AIvBdU000744; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:57:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f13.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AIv6e4000671 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:57:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:57:01 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.208 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 18:57:00 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.208] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509101759.j8AHv7Ht076942@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:57:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Sep 2005 18:57:01.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[6D2F3A90:01C5B639] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: 16th Century Use of Leather X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Karen R Bergquist >I recently bought a big chunk of leather in a sort of silvery taupe >shade. While the smooth side is nice, the color takes on a truly gorgeous >quality on the suede side. Was the suede/flesh side of leather used in >16th century England, or was the smoother hair side preferred? >We are talking about using it for clothing, of course. I was thinking of >a nice doublet for a new hunting gown....... Since I'm not sure that the color you describe was even possible for leather in that period, I'm not sure it matters much :) However, with the limited evidence available, I believe that the grain side was preferred at that point. Even on garments that were buffed for oil curing, the grain side was generally used on the outside (BTW, the frizzed/buffed up grain is how real suede was made, not the split junk leather that is often sold as "suede" today, so the flesh side isn't really the suede side. I know, no one actually teaches this stuff... ) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 10 15:29:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8AJTKif001712 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:29:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8AJSo7m029516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:28:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AJSmtx014120; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:28:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jade.spiritone.com (jade.aracnet.com [216.99.193.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8AJShjh014088 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:28:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wandap@hevanet.com) Received: from xena (216-99-218-31.dsl.aracnet.com [216.99.218.31]) (authenticated bits=0) by jade.spiritone.com (8.13.4/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8AJSgKC029358 for ; Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:28:42 -0700 From: "Wanda Pease" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:37:57 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <000b01c5b635$be05cbe0$9d5083d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1074/Sat Sep 10 08:08:47 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to the site that I bought my Baleen from recently, it is the harvesting of baleen that is watched carefully. What I bought came with a certificate that it was "antique", pre-ban stuff. The walrus ivory was supposed to go only to native carvers, but the you could own it. I had a small picture carved on the base and it's legal for a whitie to own. The State Senator (1971 here folks - Alaska had just put in its 100,000th phone) was not a part of the trade. He had settled a genuine Alaskan homestead in 1946 and was a fabulous tale teller. EZ (Easy Man) Marchant did a fine business providing art and raw materials to his stable of artisans. As is common, people think because there are no walrus off their coast, the animal must be pushing towards extinction. Wasn't true in Alaska at all and probably still isn't. The natives still hunt them and use every bit rather than just hacking off a fin and dumping the carcass back into the water. Regina > > Like the 'feather trade' relating to the sale or trade of these > products on > the endangered species lists, I thought that only Native > Americans or First > Nation peoples were the only ones who have a legal right to > collect and use > them for cultural preservation. Was the State Senator involved in this > trading!!? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 07:14:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8CBEZE6012316 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:14:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8CBDtAp016378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 05:13:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CBDl0W075362; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 05:13:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8C7FVou091731 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 01:15:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from koid.gath@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so527482nzf for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:15:26 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:x-mailer:date:to:from:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=JXU/hwdILLosnU0k0k2xu5DK7KzGliPiw3tt/6L2m0GUc1n4QLxohblHrBX4jsOEKYFrrEjsJ59eFI0cxyJzjf8k4UeoEBriFtWlFpYzV0WQw7HtYvPAYPwn5XRKuMOELV/uRabbZR3Kx+rgCLHhiIfQYkcBy9SSOP6Bvc4cpzg= Received: by 10.37.2.6 with SMTP id e6mr1175270nzi; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from koid-gath.gmail.com ( [203.49.220.209]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 8sm1841456nzn.2005.09.12.00.15.23; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050912171201.01c6a6f0@pop.gmail.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:15:31 +1000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: koid gath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1078/Sun Sep 11 14:23:36 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Does anybody know what boning this is? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I'm curious if anybody can tell me what material some boning I have is made from When I inherited my Nana's sewing box, there was an odd type of boning in it. At least I'm presuming it's boning. Its two lengths of whatever the material is, "stitched" together with white thread. The material is slightly variable in width but overall measures 8mm-9mm wide. The colour of the material varies from light to dark brown. The material looks to be continuous like a roll of plastic but every so oftena new section of the material has to be added to make it continuous (by overlapping ends and wrapping thread areound the ends to make a longer length then using that length to make up the boning proper). It's reasonably flexible still. I have two pictures at http://www.livejournal.com/users/de_meyham/5312.html to help. Thanks Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 08:27:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8CCRlhg013387 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:27:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8CCR8gC023448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:27:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CCR38h000661; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:27:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CCR0PP000647 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:27:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8CCQxZX010174 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:26:59 -0400 Message-ID: <4325741F.7060709@msn.com> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 05:27:11 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anybody know what boning this is? References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050912171201.01c6a6f0@pop.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050912171201.01c6a6f0@pop.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very cool! I don't have the answer, but perhaps to assist others: How old was your Nana? (or what time period was she alive [and actively sewing might be better]) Where was she from? Thanks for sharing, Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 08:53:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8CCr0CQ014054 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:53:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8CCqUEa029336 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:52:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CCqTwD010994; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:52:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CCqRth010948 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from koid.gath@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m7so1640915nzf for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 05:52:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:x-mailer:date:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; b=lr8q+4iJ0gRg3tbrofrWHXQlhPgXP9a2LX0yTPxaP6n0HRA+yrr8W5OhGDIQv6PzdB9Wzt+PegI3nkcZcZpLhaOzS4vEHHSfhH8FAWu5uiQUnrIsjQ7wBXplflQLuARefKoYRr8R01YSqDp++ffkvqP3+Tvtv7mZtlQfRveKlY0= Received: by 10.36.115.11 with SMTP id n11mr254649nzc; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 05:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from koid-gath.gmail.com ( [203.49.220.209]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id 6sm332854nzn.2005.09.12.05.52.19; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 05:52:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050912224721.01d45778@pop.gmail.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:52:29 +1000 To: Historical Costume From: koid gath Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anybody know what boning this is? In-Reply-To: <4325741F.7060709@msn.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050912171201.01c6a6f0@pop.gmail.com> <4325741F.7060709@msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nana born in 1914 in England (I think) but moved to Australia and married an Australian, a lot of sewing stuff in the (cantilever) sewing chest is from late thirties to early fities is my guess. My father and his siblings were born around the late thirties and forties and she did a lot of clothes sewing for them. So, yeah I'm guessing around that time, however she was very thrifty and hoarded/collected things (best example is a bowling bag full of buttons from op/charity stores) so it could be a completely random piece of haberdashery that she's picked up somewhere. Sharon At 10:27 PM 12/09/2005, you wrote: >Very cool! I don't have the answer, but perhaps to assist others: How >old was your Nana? (or what time period was she alive [and actively >sewing might be better]) Where was she from? >Thanks for sharing, >Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 09:04:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8CD4ICS014509 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:04:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8CD40bq032120 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CD3wAV015615; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:03:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CD3tdt015553 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:03:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ACB401A0; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:03:48 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 12 Sep 05 13:03:42 -0000 Message-ID: <000b01c5b79a$dd967980$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050912171201.01c6a6f0@pop.gmail.com><4325741F.7060709@msn.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20050912224721.01d45778@pop.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anybody know what boning this is? Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:06:59 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What you are describing sounds like old fashioned feather boning. it was made by stripping the 'fronds' off the feather, the spine of which was then encased with some fabric like cheesecloth or other light weight utility fabric. It was something you could make at home if you had a feather source from chickens or ducks. It was used on garments and hats where some stiffening or shaping was required. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "koid gath" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anybody know what boning this is? > Nana born in 1914 in England (I think) but moved to Australia and married > an Australian, a lot of sewing stuff in the (cantilever) sewing chest is > from late thirties to early fities is my guess. My father and his siblings > were born around the late thirties and forties and she did a lot of clothes > sewing for them. So, yeah I'm guessing around that time, however she was > very thrifty and hoarded/collected things (best example is a bowling bag > full of buttons from op/charity stores) so it could be a completely random > piece of haberdashery that she's picked up somewhere. > > Sharon > > At 10:27 PM 12/09/2005, you wrote: > >Very cool! I don't have the answer, but perhaps to assist others: How > >old was your Nana? (or what time period was she alive [and actively > >sewing might be better]) Where was she from? > >Thanks for sharing, > >Sg > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 14:54:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8CIsGXk020081 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:54:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8CIqVdB081193 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:52:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CIqBei064759; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:52:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8CIpXDn064286 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.7e.71101279 (4592) for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:51:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <7e.71101279.30572828@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:51:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Does anybody know what boning this is? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1079/Mon Sep 12 03:23:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Looks like old feather boning too. Debs In a message dated 9/12/05 7:05:34 PM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes:> > What you are describing sounds like old fashioned feather boning. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 21:20:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8D1KCtr026287 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:20:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D1Jfv8028982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:19:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D1JYQS030923; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:19:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D1JS6s030828 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:19:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D6C3B602 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:19:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <43262944.1010302@reddawn.net> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:20:04 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] lacing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 21:49:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8D1nM0D026650 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:49:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D1n1So031113 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:49:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D1mwQi044028; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:48:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D1mqLn043961 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:48:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-212-127-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.212.127]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8D1mms4015187 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:48:49 +1000 Message-ID: <006601c5b805$2a5ccfc0$7fd4f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <43262944.1010302@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:47:54 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: [h-cost] lacing > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? > Dawn I always tie off my back lacing garments at the waist, as I usually lace my own garments I can tie it at the waist but I couldn't tie it between my shoulder blades, it's just too awkward. Plus there's the problem of what to do with the leftover cord, it's much easier to tuck it into the skirt than the fitted bodice. Then again I do the exact opposite on my front lacing kirtle because it stops boob droop (the kirtle is boned to act as a corset so by tightening it from the waist I push my breasts up not down) and once I'm laced in it's easier to see what I'm doing at bust level than at waist level (as I can't bend easily). Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 21:58:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8D1weWZ026760 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:58:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D1wLiE031751 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:58:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D1wKke048083; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:58:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D1wGtA048034 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m240.in-tch.com [216.166.191.240]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j8D1piL00039 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <432633AD.8060403@in-tch.com> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:04:29 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing References: <43262944.1010302@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <43262944.1010302@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I tend to tie at the bottom, since it's easier for me to reach back and undo the knot/whatever at the end of the day. I'm only doing this on 3 old ItalianRen dresses, though, since that's all I've got in my historical wardrobe until I get around to finally making something new. When I did Elizabethan, I believe I generally also tied on the bottom, especially with the corset, because then I could wrap the extra corset cords around my waist, etc., and they didn't make some honkin' huge lump near my neck. Ditto the lacing on my Eleanor-style bodices (the kind with the two, slanting lines of side/back lacing), so that the ties weren't dangling out of my armpits or something (actually ended closer to the shoulder blade area of the armscye, but I like the visual). I should add that I use a non-historically accurate (for MY time period) cross-lacing, and not the spiral lacing, which I really do intend to try at some point. Really. ;o) --sue Dawn wrote: > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? > > > > Dawn > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 22:02:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8D22MhU026833 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:02:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D22484031969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:02:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D224Gu049827; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:02:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D21wGw049733 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.142]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050913020148.THME7577.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:01:48 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.3] ([219.89.185.199]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050913020147.RLXH5449.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.3]> for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:01:47 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.10.23]); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:01:48 +1200 Message-ID: <002d01c5b807$19eb4ca0$0301010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <43262944.1010302@reddawn.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:01:48 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? It depends, though I usually go from bottom to the top. It helps in lifting everything. Also it means you have a convenient place to put the ends. With side lacing I go top to bottom purely for logistics. The top of the lacing is already narrow because you usall have a sleeve just above it. Also it's easier to tie off and pull at the laces at the waist. For corsets thought it's really from middle to top and bottom. Or rather pulling from the waist with adjustments to the top and bottom. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.23/99 - Release Date: 12/09/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 12 23:25:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8D3PFVR027806 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:25:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D3OcBP039181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:24:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D3OZhZ087641; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:24:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D3OV3M087607 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:24:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.242.204] (acty1204.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.242.204]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317905C09D for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43264668.8010202@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:24:24 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1080/Mon Sep 12 20:02:46 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1080/Mon Sep 12 20:02:46 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi. All of the currently known illos from the time in question can be found in either Dunlevy's book or in McClintock. I noticed at Pennsic that one bookseller, Poison Pen, I think, had digitized and copied McClintock onto CD. >I did find conflicting information on a couple of >things as well.. > >..what sort of decoration was on the jackets - either >embroidered, or braid that was sewn on? > > Depends on whether it is early or late 16th Cent. Differing illos show a change in the jacket decoration. The Kilcommon jacket had none, but then, it was the type seen in the 1580s illos, not the 1520s or later ones. The Irish chieftains (Ashmolean Museum) and DeHeers illos show decoration >..did the sleeves have ties only at the wrist or along >the full length, or were they only worn loose. > > > It looks like only loose or attached at the wrist (maybe not tied at all...) Depends once again on which illo or which artifact and what period. McClintock talks about buttons at the cuff in his description of the Kilcommon jacket. >..how was it held closed in front - by belt, ties, or >a brooch? > > > Looking at the 1540s one, (Ashmolean) it seems to be attached by a single button, tie or hook and eye, although none of these is evident in either the 1540s or de Heere (1670s, but purported to have been taken from the reign of Henry VIII) illos, except what might be a loop of something on one of the de Heere men. One of the later (1580s) illos (Derricke's) looks like there was a belt on one guy... but all of the rest, save the horseboy, seem to meet at the middle with no discernable attachment. >..did it overlap like a bathrobe or like a jacket when >closed? > > It appears to have closed butted on both the earlier and later examples, although one image (the horseboy from a Derricke's engraving) looks overlapped. >I realize the answers are subject to interpretation of >research and there are virtually no extant examples, >but any information is appreciated. > > > The Kilcommon jacket looks very much like the Images of Ireland jackets (Derricke's). It lloks to me as if the "standing ruff" skirt evolved from the less stiff earlier version seen in the Ashmolean illo and the de Heere one. The folded back collar evokes a similar neckline seen at the end of the 15th/beginning of the 16th cents. H.F. McClintock Old Irish and Highland Dress Dundalgan Press 1950 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 00:35:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8D4ZLTv028528 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 00:35:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D4YfGS045426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:34:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D4Ya4n019576; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:34:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.129]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D4YVJw019549 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-65-29-25-183.mn.res.rr.com [65.29.25.183]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j8D4YSgv020367 for ; Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:34:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050912232930.01c99618@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:33:07 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg In-Reply-To: <43264668.8010202@dandy.net> References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43264668.8010202@dandy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1080/Mon Sep 12 20:02:46 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1080/Mon Sep 12 20:02:46 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] serging knits help please! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I've just found out my cousin is pregnant and have been trying to make some baby clothes for her. Unfortunately, most of the patterns ask for knit fabrics (which I've always avoided like the plague) so I tried serging the edges of each piece. By doing that the edge of each piece was really stretched in the process, even washing and drying didn't get it completely back because of the way the stitches are. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to serge the wretched fabric without it being completely pulled out of shape? I'm kind of at my wits end over this and about ready to defenestrate the wretched machine... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 05:31:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8D9Vg5Z014325 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:31:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D9VA4t078676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:31:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D9V1NU027746; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:31:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D9UtOA027691 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:30:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.21]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8D9UliQ018414 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:30:47 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.70.23] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-70-23.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.70.23]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8D9UbZ1095076 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:30:54 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050913014613.03691c90@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:47:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: effigy corset & whalebone In-Reply-To: References: <43209D5B.50805@thibault.org> <6.2.3.4.0.20050908203634.01d2d088@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20050908211053.01d30550@127.0.0.1> <43209D5B.50805@thibault.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Whalebone is not bone, it's baleen. It's very much like fingernails, and made of about the same stuff. >Hey, Kayta, you volunteer up at SF Maritime Museum. Do y'all have any >displays on baleen up there? Are you demoing at Festival of the Sea >tomorrow? Yes I was, and nice to see you there. They had some grey whale baleen on display - thick, short, and light grey-ish/yellowish. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 06:53:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DArhaW032019 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:53:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DArDwe083386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:53:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DArBB4055531; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay20-dav7.bay20.hotmail.com [64.4.54.187]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DAr8PU055486 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:53:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:53:03 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 162.83.126.49 by BAY20-DAV7.phx.gbl with DAV; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:53:02 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [162.83.126.49] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <43262944.1010302@reddawn.net> <002d01c5b807$19eb4ca0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:52:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:52:59 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2005 10:53:03.0048 (UTC) FILETIME=[50636480:01C5B851] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8DArhaW032019 Status: RO I lace only my Victorian corsets that way, since they're the only ones that go below the waist (not counting tabs), and if they're not securely laced in the middle (I.e. can't move), the lacing will tend to even itself out throughout the back and you lose waist definition. I've learned to lace my other period corsets top to bottom, since I seldom have someone to help me dress---you just can't get good servants anymore! ----- Original Message ----- From: michaela To: Historical Costume Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing For corsets thought it's really from middle to top and bottom. Or rather pulling from the waist with adjustments to the top and bottom. michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 08:26:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DCQnUv000725 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:26:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DCPceE088883 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:25:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DCPXMr090161; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:25:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jay.exetel.com.au (jay.exetel.com.au [220.233.0.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8D6Ixc6058653 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 00:19:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from glendarob@exemail.com.au) Received: (qmail 15876 invoked by uid 507); 13 Sep 2005 16:18:58 +1000 Received: from 249.88.233.220.exetel.com.au (HELO mycomputer) (220.233.88.249) by jay.exetel.com.au with SMTP; 13 Sep 2005 16:18:58 +1000 Message-ID: <074901c5b82a$fcc763b0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com><43264668.8010202@dandy.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050912232930.01c99618@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] serging knits help please! Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:53:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1080/Mon Sep 12 20:02:46 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah! Another person who uses 'defenestrate' in regular conversation! Though maybe this is more common in historical circles... Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > Greetings, > I'm kind of > at my wits end over this and about ready to defenestrate the wretched > machine... > > Cheers, > Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 08:43:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DChhAX000928 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:43:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DChJDk090421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:43:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DChHpk097482; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:43:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DChDc9097399 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:43:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.202.9f1f34b (57365) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:43:02 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <202.9f1f34b.30582356@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:43:02 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/12/2005 9:58:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: I should add that I use a non-historically accurate (for MY time period) cross-lacing, and not the spiral lacing, which I really do intend to try at some point. Really. ;o) If someone would just explain exactly how to do this.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 08:44:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DCiiij000954 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:44:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DCiIp7090542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:44:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DCiHsA097951; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:44:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DCiE0N097863 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:44:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0IMR00F4DA0O7280@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:43:34 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] serging knits help please! In-reply-to: <6.2.3.4.0.20050912232930.01c99618@pop-server.mn.rr.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Don't pull the garment as it goes under the presser foot/ over the feed dogs. It should help if there is no pressure on the piece. Also-- play with a scrap and adjust the tension to accomodate the fabric. Good luck ! Dame Catriona MacDuff PS--One of the scrolls on my wall has "defenestrate" in the text-- it was a challenge to the scribe to use the word.) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] serging knits help please! Greetings, I've just found out my cousin is pregnant and have been trying to make some baby clothes for her. Unfortunately, most of the patterns ask for knit fabrics (which I've always avoided like the plague) so I tried serging the edges of each piece. By doing that the edge of each piece was really stretched in the process, even washing and drying didn't get it completely back because of the way the stitches are. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to serge the wretched fabric without it being completely pulled out of shape? I'm kind of at my wits end over this and about ready to defenestrate the wretched machine... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:06:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DD6HvP001201 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:06:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DD5lCY092345 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:05:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DD5kjw008062; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:05:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DD5iYu008005 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:05:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from catrijn@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so936930nzf for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:05:39 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SMxlDmlp+mE61+FLQQ4aYUHF+R2DqorUIyx+IJ9EEKRrmg6nkmKv9mO6wsLEeqVHO+gv6kBZ1kPhJjvHPthBNpR08fTcbLh0twGxjWCQTt1TyVG1aEI4DSUDoETLsiAk+avoKnIeN3L57BSTlTsT5SeEtW8rrgPRhqY8X+aWupw= Received: by 10.36.7.6 with SMTP id 6mr691476nzg; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.2.5 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:05:39 -0500 From: Catrijn vanden Westhende To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing In-Reply-To: <202.9f1f34b.30582356@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <202.9f1f34b.30582356@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8DD5iYu008005 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/13/05, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 9/12/2005 9:58:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> mooncat@in-tch.com writes: >> >> I should add that I use a non-historically accurate (for MY time period) >> cross-lacing, and not the spiral lacing, which I really do intend to try >> at some point. Really. ;o) > > If someone would just explain exactly how to do this.... > Like this? http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/lacing/lacing.html For front-lacing fitted gowns, I go bottom to top, spiral lacing. I usually just use a cotton crochet thread that I've worked into a cord with either fingerloop braiding or plying. I make rolled tip from aluminum. For Victorian corsets, top and bottom to the middle. I do alternating cross-lacing (not sure if there's an official term, I just made that up), slightly different from the way I lace shoes. One 'cross' is totally on the outside, the next is totally on the inside. Its actually like double spiral lacing. This way the laces never pass _between_ the two edges - I find that it pinches less and is easier to get tight closure. Catrijn Catrijn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:11:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DDBX0D001269 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:11:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DDAcG2092865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:10:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDAcUq010301; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:10:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDAYKg010237 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:10:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.48.164.169]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050913131029.WWYG1005.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:10:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c5b865$4671d4c0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <202.9f1f34b.30582356@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:15:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > In a message dated 9/12/2005 9:58:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > > I should add that I use a non-historically accurate (for MY time period) > cross-lacing, and not the spiral lacing, which I really do intend to try > at some point. Really. ;o) > > > > If someone would just explain exactly how to do this.... Sure! Here's a very helpful website I found some time ago just on that subject: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/lacing/lacing.html Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:20:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DDKrE9001422 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DDKVSO093629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:20:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDKUqI014883; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:20:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDKQYp014814 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:20:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A2140218; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:20:20 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.142 ([209.131.80.142] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 13 Sep 05 13:20:12 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c5b866$56c2a920$8e5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <43262944.1010302@reddawn.net> <002d01c5b807$19eb4ca0$0301010a@michaela> Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:23:30 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On this subject of lacing corsets,there seems to be a myth out there that you could identify a 'loose woman' by the way her corset or stays were tied. It would seem to me that tying up or down might have indicated class, maternity or economic status and not just sexual proclivity. Any thoughts or documentations? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing > > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? > > It depends, though I usually go from bottom to the top. It helps in lifting > everything. Also it means you have a convenient place to put the ends. > > With side lacing I go top to bottom purely for logistics. The top of the > lacing is already narrow because you usall have a sleeve just above it. Also > it's easier to tie off and pull at the laces at the waist. > > For corsets thought it's really from middle to top and bottom. Or rather > pulling from the waist with adjustments to the top and bottom. > > michaela de bruce > http://costumes.glittersweet.com > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.23/99 - Release Date: 12/09/2005 > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:30:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DDUh8f001588 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:30:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DDU5RK094554 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:30:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDU3V5019725; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:30:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDTvY2019598 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:29:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from purplkat@optonline.net) Received: from optonline.net (hamstr12.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.31]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IMR004QWC5RLL30@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.240.3.38] (Forwarded-For: [199.20.68.40]) by mstr4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mshttpd); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:29:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:29:51 -0400 From: purplkat@optonline.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] serging knits help please! In-reply-to: <074901c5b82a$fcc763b0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43264668.8010202@dandy.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050912232930.01c99618@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <074901c5b82a$fcc763b0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO When my husband has computer problems (which is every other day) I ask him if he wants to defenestrate the computer. This usually calms him down and allows me to fix what went wrong. Katheryne ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenda Robinson > Yeah! Another person who uses 'defenestrate' in regular > conversation! > > Though maybe this is more common in historical circles... > Glenda. > ----- Original Message ----- > > Greetings, > > > > I'm kind of at my wits end over this and about ready to defenestrate the > wretched machine... > > Cheers, > > Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:39:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DDd3gk001688 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:39:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DDcgr0095422 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:38:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDcekG024123; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:38:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vhost1.itasca.net (IDENT:B8GNmwjkYjcV8KhgJmlgZwofAakzThqR@vhost1.itasca.net [12.157.198.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDcZjC024085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:38:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from apache@vhost1.itasca.net) Received: from apache by vhost1.itasca.net with local (Exim 4.42 and XAMS 0.0.13) id 1EFAzb-0007mz-DU for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:38:35 -0500 Received: from dialup-4.249.21.93.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net (dialup-4.249.21.93.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.21.93]) by vhost1.itasca.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:38:35 -0400 Message-ID: <1126618715.4326d65b5908b@vhost1.itasca.net> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:38:35 -0400 From: Charlotte Johnson To: h-costume@indra.com References: <200509131323.j8DDKXDc014909@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200509131323.j8DDKXDc014909@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2-cvs X-Originating-IP: 4.249.21.93 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: lacing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? I think it depends on what period. For the 14th and 15th centuries, the images of Mary suckling Jesus all have the opening at the top. These are front laced, non-boned, examples, and presumably it's easier to nurse when you start the lace at the bottom. Cheers, Charlotte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:39:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DDdIMl001691 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:39:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DDcvRi095460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:38:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDcvIF024262; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:38:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S1.cableone.net (s1.cableone.net [24.116.0.227]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDcs4x024197 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [69.92.42.132]) by S1.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S1) with ESMTP id 31065487 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:38:55 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] serging knits help please! Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:39:17 -0500 Message-ID: <005901c5b868$89bcab80$6701a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050912232930.01c99618@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 28, in=7, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 69.92.42.132 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Danielle-- There is a simple adjustment you can make to fix this. Your serger has differential feed (unless it's VERY old), which means there are 2 sets of feed dogs under the presser foot, and they can be adjusted to go at different speeds. Depending on the fabric you are serging, you will need to adjust the differential feed knob one direction or the other. Look in your manual--there should be illustrations of wavy edges (like you got) or gathered edges, and how to adjust the differential feed to correct each situation. What I do is use a scrap of my fabric to test before I sew the actual seam. Then is the edge is ruffling or stretching, I adjust the feed. If you don't have the manual, check out serger books at the library or book store, or just experiment with your knob on scrap fabrics. You will be amazed at what a difference that differential feed makes.There is an article in Threads Apr/May '00 issue titled "Make Sense of Your Serger's Differential Feed" that should help. Taunton published a very good how-to book for sergers, Serging Fine Fabrics. I've seen it discounted at Hamilton Books. Kim--who resisted learning to serge for many years before discovering what a wonderful tool the darn thing is! -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:33 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] serging knits help please! Greetings, I've just found out my cousin is pregnant and have been trying to make some baby clothes for her. Unfortunately, most of the patterns ask for knit fabrics (which I've always avoided like the plague) so I tried serging the edges of each piece. By doing that the edge of each piece was really stretched in the process, even washing and drying didn't get it completely back because of the way the stitches are. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to serge the wretched fabric without it being completely pulled out of shape? I'm kind of at my wits end over this and about ready to defenestrate the wretched machine... Cheers, Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:51:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DDpHKl001903 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:51:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DDooV3096603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:50:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDolNa030647; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:50:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDoi72030573 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:50:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.64.5d1fcdc4 (4592) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:50:36 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <64.5d1fcdc4.3058332b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:50:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/13/2005 9:39:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mathilde@mathildegirlgenius.com writes: > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? I think it depends on what period. For the 14th and 15th centuries, the images of Mary suckling Jesus all have the opening at the top. These are front laced, non-boned, examples, and presumably it's easier to nurse when you start the lace at the bottom. This could get very interesting. Of course in any period you might want to lace bottom up for a decorative bow at the top. Then again...how about a decorative bow at the bottom of the point. [like in some 1850s gowns] But I do find this "language of lacing" idea fascinating. Also...when working on the miniseries "Queen"...which starts in the 1830s and goes to the 1880s...we were lacing corsets with a very long lace. We would start at the top, go to the waist and there leave a long length of cord in a loop that went to the next grommet without crossing over to the other side, then continued down to the bottom where the ends of cord were tied off. The lacing was then tightened down from the top to the waist, then tightened up from the bottom to the waist, then the loop [at the waist that doesn't cross] was tied off to keep things tight. Did that make any sense? It's a lot harder to describe that it actually is to do. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 09:51:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DDpmwb001911 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DDpVds096662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDpVQ5031093; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:51:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [63.240.76.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DDpRPQ031015 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:51:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gmcdavid@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.205.150 ([204.127.205.150]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005091313512201200n1pt8e>; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:51:22 +0000 Received: from [204.73.55.90] by 204.127.205.150; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:51:21 +0000 From: gmcdavid@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Kilcommon Bog Jacket/Ionar Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:51:21 +0000 Message-Id: <091320051351.5105.4326D95900071243000013F122007511500B07900E0B0C0309@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: Z21jZGF2aWRAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I noticed at Pennsic > that one bookseller, Poison Pen, I think, had digitized and copied > McClintock onto CD. See http://www.scotpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=93 also available at http://giftshop.scottishtartans.org/books.htm Glenn McDavid gmcdavid@winternet.com gmcdavid@comcast.net http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 10:27:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DERqfe002524 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:27:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DERHK4000446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DEREIl052624; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:27:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DER8um052510 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:27:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8DER57J021894 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:27:05 -0400 Message-ID: <4326E1B4.3070206@msn.com> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:27:00 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] serging knits help please! References: <005901c5b868$89bcab80$6701a8c0@kimathlon> In-Reply-To: <005901c5b868$89bcab80$6701a8c0@kimathlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Danielle writes some great suggestions here.......my question is why you are serging the edges? Perhaps I have misunderstood. Unless you mean you are just pieces together....there shouldn't be any need to "finish" the fabric edges.... kim baird wrote: >Danielle-- > >There is a simple adjustment you can make to fix this. > > >Cheers, >Danielle > > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 10:36:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DEaJSk002654 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:36:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DEZmuE001429 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:35:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DEZjED058548; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:35:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DEZKD2058261 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:35:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m111.in-tch.com [216.166.191.111]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j8DESlL22080 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4326E51C.5040400@in-tch.com> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:41:32 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing References: <202.9f1f34b.30582356@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <202.9f1f34b.30582356@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The spiral lacing or the cross lacing? The cross-lacing's just what I do on my tennie shoes. ;o) I found info about spiral lacing on the internet, on the following website, although the internal links to the spiral lacing section don't seem to be working: http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/index.html Awesome website. --Sue AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > If someone would just explain exactly how to do this.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 10:38:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DEc2Uu002687 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:38:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DEbeCa001586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:37:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DEbdIB060001; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:37:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DEbaqt059896 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:37:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m7so2002712nzf for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=kYcl98EFLfgsYAAgD9Sb93J9BkPLhssOjILo5zuMb4S58oMDJG3fq5uINAqDmJvU98a8v2SlMsjH5P8Y1Q4tkJ0NVCasuSjWRtTfeTUyHDsCgHHRtqEUs3iMtNpciVXjFvPx+GLaeGgfh2fOFseEkSPkxJbiUNLcHBPk6nrS+l4= Received: by 10.36.103.8 with SMTP id a8mr654302nzc; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.109.1 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:37:31 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing In-Reply-To: <1126618715.4326d65b5908b@vhost1.itasca.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <200509131323.j8DDKXDc014909@net.indra.com> <1126618715.4326d65b5908b@vhost1.itasca.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8DEc2Uu002687 Status: RO A really interesting page on lacing... it's really about *shoes* but has some nifty decorative lacing techniques: http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm almost none of these techniques are appropriate to historical costuming, though :( -Irmgart On 9/13/05, Charlotte Johnson wrote: > > > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? > > I think it depends on what period. > > For the 14th and 15th centuries, the images of Mary suckling Jesus all > have the > opening at the top. These are front laced, non-boned, examples, and > presumably > it's easier to nurse when you start the lace at the bottom. > > Cheers, > Charlotte > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 10:41:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DEfB80002735 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:41:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DEeq5J002018 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:40:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DEeod1062408; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8DEeh2C062264 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:40:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBUP3FVA6FBM9A for (sender ); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K4SMUXW9; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:39:09 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:30:58 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing Message-ID: <20050913.093059.-116315115.6.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-67 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 26:13:3782223091 X-MAIL-INFO: 54411df91da539b8a5395899395815789ccce5cdd579cc2d5505d5002d2801fc2dbd0c084118414c81583c394199 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7+YA/Hb+1yJgLBWsIKiDNzruW9/WNjcdBA== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's how I lace my Victorian corset and that's how I was instructed to do it by Laughing Moon. It's very effective and keeps the waist compression where you want it. My laces are long enough that I can tie them around the front to make things easy on myself. Karen Seamstrix On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:50:35 EDT AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 9/13/2005 9:39:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mathilde@mathildegirlgenius.com writes: > > > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, > gowns, > > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? > > I think it depends on what period. > > For the 14th and 15th centuries, the images of Mary suckling Jesus > all have > the > opening at the top. These are front laced, non-boned, examples, and > > presumably > it's easier to nurse when you start the lace at the bottom. > > This could get very interesting. > > Of course in any period you might want to lace bottom up for a > decorative > bow at the top. > > Then again...how about a decorative bow at the bottom of the point. > [like in > some 1850s gowns] > > But I do find this "language of lacing" idea fascinating. > > > Also...when working on the miniseries "Queen"...which starts in the > 1830s > and goes to the 1880s...we were lacing corsets with a very long > lace. We would > start at the top, go to the waist and there leave a long length of > cord in a > loop that went to the next grommet without crossing over to the > other side, > then continued down to the bottom where the ends of cord were tied > off. The > lacing was then tightened down from the top to the waist, then > tightened up > from the bottom to the waist, then the loop [at the waist that > doesn't cross] > was tied off to keep things tight. > > Did that make any sense? It's a lot harder to describe that it > actually is > to do. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 10:53:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DErO8m002911 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DEr2c6003242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:53:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DEr141070990; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8DEquY3070899 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:52:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 27365 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2005 14:52:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Sep 2005 14:52:50 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050913155124.01d33c50@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:52:59 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing In-Reply-To: <64.5d1fcdc4.3058332b@aol.com> References: <64.5d1fcdc4.3058332b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1081/Tue Sep 13 01:06:09 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 14:50 13/09/2005, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/13/2005 9:39:18 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >mathilde@mathildegirlgenius.com writes: > > > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing --corsets, bodices, gowns, > > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the bottom? When I used to work in the theatre it was considered bad luck to fasten any upper body garment from the top to the bottom. You always had to fasten it from bottom to top, so that the "actor/dancer/singer" could go from the bottom to the top too!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 12:25:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DGPM1r004329 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:25:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DGOdmu014416 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:24:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DGO6Yg041813; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:24:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DGKiIQ039032 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:20:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.f5.59a15383 (4539) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:14:17 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:14:16 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 9/13/2005 10:53:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: When I used to work in the theatre it was considered bad luck to fasten any upper body garment from the top to the bottom. You always had to fasten it from bottom to top, so that the "actor/dancer/singer" could go from the bottom to the top too!! When I worked for the local Shakespeare festival, we had an excellent British actress in the company who was serious about a number of silly , yet traditional theatre superstitions. I used to torment her, putting shoes on the counter instead of the floor, say "Macbeth" out loud in the theatre, wearing green and.... of course... lacing things top to bottom. I know...I be bad! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 13:07:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DH7PUB004853 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:07:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DH6rWD019878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:06:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DH6k2s075583; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51311.mail.yahoo.com (web51311.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8DH6dWM075414 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:06:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 6523 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2005 17:06:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WViKyJrOFGf81XBlenXVg8EmRGSXtLrqP4F7soGEia+6jLT45iMNyb4vNn7yLMTCQM0dsAMRzf1WjWHKrDAQ6vagaBIK91TaqrO8b2zRJy09ALtgkyEJdXDPRajr3xafcenMw0d6zEuuhiZa0Vjct02gILnEm0I7xHVwha8qLC4= ; Message-ID: <20050913170633.6521.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:06:33 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:06:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1126618715.4326d65b5908b@vhost1.itasca.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 14th & 15th century illuminations of 1. V. Mary when pregnant and 2. several pictures of adulterous women all show looseness in the lacing and the end of the lace hanging down. And I believe the night scene in Rene d'Anjou's Book of Love, where the allegorical women got soaked & stripped down a layer, their underlayer was loosely laced over the lower abdomen. So it's not 100% even in the 14th & 15th c. Ann in CT --- Charlotte Johnson wrote: > > I'm curious, when you're lacing clothing > --corsets, bodices, gowns, > > vests, whatever -- do you tie at the top or at the > bottom? > > I think it depends on what period. > > For the 14th and 15th centuries, the images of Mary > suckling Jesus all have the > opening at the top. These are front laced, > non-boned, examples, and presumably > it's easier to nurse when you start the lace at the > bottom. > > Cheers, > Charlotte > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 13:07:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DH7pXX004865 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:07:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DH7T1k019977 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:07:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DH7PHm076126; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:07:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DH7DDp075955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:07:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8DH1ijf032159 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:01:44 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4327073F.70506@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:07:11 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > When I worked for the local Shakespeare festival, we had an excellent > British actress in the company who was serious about a number of silly , yet > traditional theatre superstitions. I used to torment her, putting shoes on the > counter instead of the floor, Hadn't heard that one before! I ran into a superstition about hems flipping up at the edges somewhere in a book. Have you ever heard of that one? The character in the book had to spit on it before smoothing it down, if I recall correctly -- but it was more than 10 years ago that I read it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 16:26:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DKQl2P007481 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:26:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DKPUKw045221 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:25:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DKPOfg028708; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:25:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8DKPHBn028567 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:25:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBUQPM5AB5CARA for (sender ); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K4S9LLEC; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:24:07 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:21:16 -0500 Message-ID: <20050913.152117.-929105.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,9-10,13-20 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 5:2:4072577784 X-MAIL-INFO: 0f51a9d1253021b59d14c1b5bde539d914a0f59d04 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7+YA/Hb+1yJgOEG3zUM/IsIq55qx+u/Ljg== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] At Long Last- the QE2! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Some of you may remember that I have been asked to play Queen Elizabeth at the Stronghold Olde English Faire for the last few years. For last year, I decided to make myself a new purple dress as Americans get confused if the queen isn't wearing purple. Anyway, I started a dress diary on it last September but didn't get beyond posting about the under-sleeves before life and other stuff interrupted. That has now been remedied! The complete QE2 Dress Diary is now up on my web site. I've included a fairly detailed explanation on cartridge pleating so there's some education to be had as well. And if you are going to be in the wilds of north central Illinois near Oregon, Illinois the first weekend of October (Oct 1 & 2), please drop by and say 'hi!', I'll be playing Great Bess yet again! http://seamstrix.com/The%20QE%202.htm Karen Seamstrix _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 17:13:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DLDKsW008056 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:13:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DLCOSo050894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:12:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DLC7o1063475; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:12:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DLAoAc062538 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:12:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D98C3B601 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:10:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <43274078.9010002@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:11:20 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] At Long Last- the QE2! References: <20050913.152117.-929105.0.penhalion@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <20050913.152117.-929105.0.penhalion@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Karen R Bergquist wrote: > > That has now been remedied! The complete QE2 Dress Diary is now up on my > web site. I've included a fairly detailed explanation on cartridge > pleating so there's some education to be had as well. > > http://seamstrix.com/The%20QE%202.htm It looks great! I love the striped sleeves and the not-another-forepart look of the skirt. And I see it has the Cathair Stamp of Approval. :) Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 17:27:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DLRnxt008191 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:27:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DLQolq052824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:26:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DLQb63074699; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DLPsuK074154 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:26:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EFIHm-0005V4-86 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:25:50 +0000 Message-ID: <4hno+wDGO0JDJwib@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:24:22 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] serging knits help please! References: <20050909012120.65795.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43264668.8010202@dandy.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050912232930.01c99618@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <074901c5b82a$fcc763b0$0202a8c0@mycomputer> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Does that mean "remove Microsquish operating system and replace with *grown-up* software" - as my husband would have it, every time he has a problem with basic wordprocessing or spreadsheet tasks? Jean purplkat@optonline.net wrote >When my husband has computer problems (which is every other day) I ask >him if he wants to defenestrate the computer. > >This usually calms him down and allows me to fix what went wrong. > >Katheryne > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Glenda Robinson >> Yeah! Another person who uses 'defenestrate' in regular >> conversation! >> >> Though maybe this is more common in historical circles... >> Glenda. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > Greetings, >> > >> >> I'm kind of at my wits end over this and about ready to defenestrate the >> wretched machine... >> > Cheers, >> > Danielle >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 17:41:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DLfp6P008318 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DLfTro054831 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DLfPYj086160; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:41:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DLfLro086119 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:41:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8DLfL2D009160 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:41:21 -0400 Message-ID: <4327477D.4020602@msn.com> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:41:17 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] At Long Last- the QE2! References: <20050913.152117.-929105.0.penhalion@juno.com> <43274078.9010002@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <43274078.9010002@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, very nicely done and love the Cathair stamp of approval comment! > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 17:45:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DLjAUG008345 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:45:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DLi4ql055112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:44:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DJbusa091423; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:38:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web32605.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web32605.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.207.232]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8DJaejJ090439 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:37:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dotsontwo@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 67336 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Sep 2005 19:36:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=yt5GEW0n4Z01vlUy/ajPqH/DFg2yTK08lzFJy/ADzYxlac+KNfvi0iFa75hmnZOJWPdQX8TSG9FnZ8H+x2wY0IxeqFNG5H57EbfNy/Ib0hp5xHz1Wys+vLzIwadE0+sUuoZlVxlA/STEUYCwcRGRAGG4zdB8teXUmXV/Bt9t8tA= ; Message-ID: <20050913193634.67334.qmail@web32605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.183.235.191] by web32605.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:36:34 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:36:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Pam Dotson Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you! I never understood this, until now! Pam Dotson Everett, WA USA > > If someone would just explain exactly how to do this.... > Like this? http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/lacing/lacing.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 18:38:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8DMcoBO008815 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:38:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8DMcFSg062158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:38:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DMc2cU026762; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:38:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DMbplN026571 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:37:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.a0.30b081e3 (15974) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R42 (fwm-r42.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.146]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID101-3e664327549f124; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:37:19 -0400 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:37:19 -0400 Message-Id: <8C786CAD5C1C5D9-BD0-2B4@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200509121804.j8CI09HA022710@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.146) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:37:19 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200509121804.j8CI09HA022710@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.13964 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.146 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like your expert opinions on what the "official" difference is between trousers and leggings or hose. Is it just that trousers aren't as fitted in the legs? Or are trousers one piece while leggings are two? Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 20:05:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E050QO009688 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:05:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E04TKN072210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:04:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E04LVM079351; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:04:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8E04Ili079325 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 18153 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2005 17:04:08 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 18117, pid: 18120, t: 3.0891s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1070 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2005 17:04:05 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050913165919.03179050@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:04:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose In-Reply-To: <8C786CAD5C1C5D9-BD0-2B4@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> References: <200509121804.j8CI09HA022710@net.indra.com> <8C786CAD5C1C5D9-BD0-2B4@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:37 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote: >I would like your expert opinions on what the "official" difference >is between trousers and leggings or hose. Is it just that trousers >aren't as fitted in the legs? Or are trousers one piece while >leggings are two? > >Tea Rose Leggings (or hose) are just that, individually fastened coverings for the legs. Trousers are one garment that covers both legs and the fork and up, historically, to the waist. How fitted the leg coverings are is a matter of fashion. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 20:24:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E0OLmI009894 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:24:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E0NxRO074007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:23:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E0Nwle089264; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:23:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from fall-pradero.atl.sa.earthlink.net (fall-pradero.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DJn7JQ000746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:50:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net ([207.69.200.28]) by fall-pradero.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EFGeQ-0007FV-L6 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:41:06 -0400 Received: from mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.50]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EFGeQ-0001Bk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:41:06 -0400 Message-ID: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:41:06 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=10% Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > When I worked for the local Shakespeare festival, we had an excellent > British actress in the company who was serious about a number of silly , yet > traditional theatre superstitions. I used to torment her, putting shoes on the > counter instead of the floor... A couple more: (1) It's unlucky to baste anything with green thread. (Green is supposed to be a generally unlucky color anyway.) IIRC (and it was a LONG time ago) I think my grandmother actually told me this one. (2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone is actually wearing it. But the person wearing the clothing can avert evil consequences by holding a piece of thread between their teeth while the sewing is going on. (Can't remember where I saw this, but it was relatively recent.) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 20:24:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E0OSfw009905 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E0ODux074059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E0ODAi089400; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:24:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DLZQYv081439 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:35:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-66.sonic.net [209.148.114.66]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8DKxNZ8007202 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:59:24 -0700 Message-ID: <43273DAD.2010704@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:59:25 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dye question and unrelated dish recommendation X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I've been buying crochet items from china-usa on ebay, and I love their quality and service. However, their main colors are white, "natural" off-white, and sometimes ecru. And black, but I look awful in black. And there's only so much white, off-white, and natural I want in my wardrobe. My husband (who refuses to wear the stuff but is definitely Getting in Touch with His Inner Chemist) and I have been at the Great T-Shirt Dyeing Project for several months (and, at one batch per week, have several more months to go). We've gotten fairly good at telling how the dyes will look beforehand and getting most of the colors we want. So, I thought about dyeing one or more of china-USA's skirts, specifically the style shown here: http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-HAND-CROCHET-COTTON-SKIRT-WHITE-L_W0QQitemZ8334252631QQcategoryZ48894QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The item title is VINTAGE HAND CROCHET COTTON SKIRT WHITE L I have one in my size in "natural" and it's gorgeous; but again, I want some colored skirts. Does anyone here know if items made from modern crochet thread dye well? (I think even their vintage items are old store stock from the 1970s or later.) Or does it have a coating or other chemical treatment that inhibits dye? Would it be better to start with china-usa's white or their natural skirt, or does it matter? And if the skirts will dye, will the crochet stand up to washer dyeing (about an hour of agitation for dark colors, plus washing afterward to get rid of excess dye)? I bet not, but thought I'd ask. BTW, anyone who wants to buy a set of more or less Arts & Crafts styled dishes, check out the Mission Flower pattern at www.pfaltzgraff.com. No, it's not a museum-documented pattern or anything, but it works well with the decor and it's a lot less expensive. They're having their big annual sale, and my husband and I just got an 8-person set for about $140. If you don't like the modern mismatched look, they have a large selection of open stock pieces, and you can get a more matched set by buying those. Their print catalog, BTW, is easier to navigate than their website. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 20:33:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E0XXjJ010023 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:33:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E0XDId074759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:33:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E0XCF2093769; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:33:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E0X5rY093670 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail2.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.185]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1F0495F0 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:03 +1000 (EST) Received: from b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au (b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au [203.100.229.188]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:03 +1000 Message-ID: <1126657983.43276fbf40f46@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:03 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO While working on Georgian period houses (here in Australia), renovators and restorers have found shoes and boots tucked up into chimneys. The explanation is that witches could detect shapes of people in houses, particularly children (maybe witches have starship sensors on their brooms!), and would come for them. Footwear is the only item of clothing that retains the shape of a body part when not being worn so placing one above the fireplace would draw the witch to a place where they would be uncomfortable and, perhaps, even trapped, -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 20:44:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E0iTZL010187 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:44:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E0iAKp075718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:44:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E0i95c098798; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:44:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E0i5Hu098725 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:44:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD2573B607 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:43:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <43277281.7060207@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:44:49 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] =?utf-8?q?=C4=8Cesk=C3=BD_Krumlov_Castle=2C_photo_buffe?= =?utf-8?q?t?= X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO www.ckrumlov.cz/uk/seznamy/t_obrzam.htm Stumbled across this site while looking for something else. Appears to be a Czechoslovakian castle site with the most amazing collections of photos. Photos of the castle in excruciating detail, photos of the 17th century theatre and some extant costumes, photos of paintings from the castle gallery, photos of re-enactment events on the grounds, photos of state dinners in modern fancy dress, photos of I-don't -know-what... And if you follow the links you can take virtual tours of the place. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 21:15:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E1F7wb010538 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:15:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E1EY3u078298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:14:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E1ES7x013350; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:14:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8E1EM8Q013206 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 16691 invoked from network); 13 Sep 2005 18:14:12 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 16655, pid: 16672, t: 4.5574s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1070 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 13 Sep 2005 18:14:08 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050913180754.03187140@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:14:12 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye question and unrelated dish recommendation In-Reply-To: <43273DAD.2010704@lavoltapress.com> References: <43273DAD.2010704@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Very pretty skirt. The "natural color" (a light tan/ecru) in cotton is dyed; most cotton is naturally white. Have you considered just wearing the skirt over a colored petticoat? I would not be too worried about the durability of the crochet work. I'd put it in a lingerie bag to prevent excessive stretching during agitation, but don't think any other special treatment is needed except to dry it flat. Joan Jurancich crocheter & knitter, etc. At 01:59 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote: >I've been buying crochet items from china-usa on ebay, and I love >their quality and service. However, their main colors are white, >"natural" off-white, and sometimes ecru. And black, but I look >awful in black. >And there's only so much white, off-white, and natural I want in my wardrobe. > >My husband (who refuses to wear the stuff but is definitely Getting >in Touch with His Inner Chemist) and I have been at the Great >T-Shirt Dyeing Project for several months (and, at one batch per >week, have several more months to go). We've gotten fairly good at >telling how the dyes will look beforehand and getting most of the >colors we want. So, I thought about dyeing one or more of >china-USA's skirts, specifically the style shown here: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-HAND-CROCHET-COTTON-SKIRT-WHITE-L_W0QQitemZ8334252631QQcategoryZ48894QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >The item title is VINTAGE HAND CROCHET COTTON SKIRT WHITE L > >I have one in my size in "natural" and it's gorgeous; but again, I >want some colored skirts. > >Does anyone here know if items made from modern crochet thread dye >well? (I think even their vintage items are old store stock from >the 1970s or later.) Or does it have a coating or other chemical >treatment that inhibits dye? Would it be better to start with >china-usa's white or their natural skirt, or does it matter? And if >the skirts will dye, will the crochet stand up to washer dyeing >(about an hour of agitation for dark colors, plus washing afterward >to get rid of excess dye)? I bet not, but thought I'd ask. >[snip] >Fran >Lavolta Press >http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 21:53:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E1rdwk010961 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:53:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E1r9s1081871 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:53:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E1r8fo032369; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:53:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E1r3SR032317 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:53:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-150.sonic.net [209.148.113.150]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E1r1nD009136 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:53:02 -0700 Message-ID: <4327827F.1050605@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:53:03 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dye question and unrelated dish recommendation References: <43273DAD.2010704@lavoltapress.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20050913180754.03187140@pop.surewest.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050913180754.03187140@pop.surewest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO True, and the white is probably bleached. I think cotton is not naturally bright white. Yes, I've considered wearing the skirt over a colored petticoat, I just have a hankering for a colored one too. Thanks, Fran Joan Jurancich wrote: > Very pretty skirt. The "natural color" (a light tan/ecru) in cotton > is dyed; most cotton is naturally white. Have you considered just > wearing the skirt over a colored petticoat? > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 23:04:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E342pk011693 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:04:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E33G9w087315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:03:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E33DSx064177; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:03:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web53204.mail.yahoo.com (web53204.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.49.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8E33C8s064140 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:03:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gythaofnorthumbria@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 66629 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 2005 03:03:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=3UHeNK2S2VAd3OwJQrUHavGOn5LWaESHJyYtfdttDpOLA8fIBbCXwj0FDOgYOu65VFlYgE29K566SsYhX07ZbAJwFHBz7kszifq+9jkOF2jR3CzkD117i1i5ajkNV6/1NsjcZx3Y9Pa1sNv0BdO24k4qSfS5qvULljw+Mr2ZnC4= ; Message-ID: <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.110.200.76] by web53204.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:03:06 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:03:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Gytha Stonegrinder Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wonder if the green thread is related to the old use of green as the color of mourning (long before black)... because green grass grows on the grave. Gytha Chris Laning wrote:AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > When I worked for the local Shakespeare festival, we had an excellent > British actress in the company who was serious about a number of silly , yet > traditional theatre superstitions. I used to torment her, putting shoes on the > counter instead of the floor... A couple more: (1) It's unlucky to baste anything with green thread. (Green is supposed to be a generally unlucky color anyway.) IIRC (and it was a LONG time ago) I think my grandmother actually told me this one. (2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone is actually wearing it. But the person wearing the clothing can avert evil consequences by holding a piece of thread between their teeth while the sewing is going on. (Can't remember where I saw this, but it was relatively recent.) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 13 23:04:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E34QG9011699 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:04:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E346rW087374 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:04:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E33x6M064488; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:03:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms048pub.verizon.net (vms048pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E33p6X064437 for ; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:03:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([162.83.126.49]) by vms048.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IMS00CV8DUAEG47@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:03:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:03:44 -0400 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <009901c5b8d8$eb3c2000$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200509121804.j8CI09HA022710@net.indra.com> <8C786CAD5C1C5D9-BD0-2B4@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20050913165919.03179050@pop.surewest.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually in the 16th century, the term hose is often used to mean forked truncated garments that we would today call trousers. There are a hole body of them referred to as "trunk hose". I am not aware of the word trousers being used at all in that period. In the period I work in (18th century) you do sometimes see the term hose applied to what we may call trousers, though the only example I can think of (in english) is sailors trousers. In german of course they still use it into at least the early 19th century. Lederhosen meanind quite simply "leather breeches". (At leasxt as I uinderstand it, not being a german speaker). Like many things on this list, some specification is needed. Do you mean how are the words used today, in which I would agree with Joan, though I try to use period terms when I can, and if not, when is the period in question? Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose > At 03:37 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote: >>I would like your expert opinions on what the "official" difference is >>between trousers and leggings or hose. Is it just that trousers aren't as >>fitted in the legs? Or are trousers one piece while leggings are two? >> >>Tea Rose > > Leggings (or hose) are just that, individually fastened coverings for the > legs. Trousers are one garment that covers both legs and the fork and up, > historically, to the waist. How fitted the leg coverings are is a matter > of fashion. > > > Joan Jurancich > joanmj@surewest.net > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 02:30:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E6UVOp020935 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:30:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E6TmhW006179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E6TjLI055033; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E6Tf7T055008 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:29:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5212C17E64 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:29:41 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] lacing Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:29:55 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <202.9f1f34b.30582356@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO -----Original Message----- mooncat@in-tch.com writes: I should add that I use a non-historically accurate (for MY time period) cross-lacing, and not the spiral lacing, which I really do intend to try at some point. Really. ;o) ***** Umm, I don't know your time period but late 1400s Florentine http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor3.html http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor5.html http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor20.html De _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 04:28:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E8S6ZZ015585 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:28:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E8Ri0m014129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:27:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E8ReCh098653; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:27:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E8RZsK098610 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8E8RTo12986.; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:27:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:27:29 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:27:08 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8E8S6ZZ015585 Status: RO At least in Britain, "leggings" has been used in recent years to describe the close-fitting one-piece nether garment fashionable for casual wear. When I was a little girl in the 1950s, when it was still uncommon for females to wear trousers, I wore "leggings" with my winter coats, but they were separate items, like long gaiters. "Trousers" in the late 18th-early 19th century were a loose-fitting full-length garment, originally worn by working men (the "sans-culottes" of the French Revolution were called "without breeches" because they wore trousers instead). Fashionable men gradually abandoned knee-breeches for pantaloons (full-length but fitted) and then trousers. Nowadays I often hear people who don't know about historic costume refer to breeches as trousers - it's become a generic term for the nether garment. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> r.carnegie@verizon.net 14/09/2005 04:03 >>> ". Like many things on this list, some specification is needed. Do you mean how are the words used today, in which I would agree with Joan, though I try to use period terms when I can, and if not, when is the period in question? Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Jurancich" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose > At 03:37 PM 9/13/2005, you wrote: >>I would like your expert opinions on what the "official" difference is >>between trousers and leggings or hose. Is it just that trousers aren't as >>fitted in the legs? Or are trousers one piece while leggings are two? >> >>Tea Rose > > Leggings (or hose) are just that, individually fastened coverings for the > legs. Trousers are one garment that covers both legs and the fork and up, > historically, to the waist. How fitted the leg coverings are is a matter > of fashion. > > > Joan Jurancich > joanmj@surewest.net > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 05:41:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8E9fB4Z031426 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:41:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8E9eZ5S019339 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:40:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8E9eT7O024469; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:40:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8E9eJWr024394 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:40:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 83854 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2005 09:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp810.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2005 09:40:12 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:39:42 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:03 14/09/2005, you wrote: >I wonder if the green thread is related to the old use of green as >the color of mourning (long before black)... because green grass >grows on the grave. Gytha > >Chris Laning wrote:AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > > When I worked for the local Shakespeare festival, we had an excellent > > British actress in the company who was serious about a number of > silly , yet > > traditional theatre superstitions. I used to torment her, putting > shoes on the > > counter instead of the floor... > >A couple more: > >(1) It's unlucky to baste anything with green thread. (Green is >supposed to be a generally unlucky color anyway.) IIRC (and it was a >LONG time ago) I think my grandmother actually told me this one. > >(2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone is >actually wearing it. But the person wearing the clothing can avert >evil consequences by holding a piece of thread between their teeth >while the sewing is going on. (Can't remember where I saw this, but >it was relatively recent.) A couple of times when I worked for the Royal Shakespeare Company I had to "sew" someone into a costume which had split, and each time the actor was very, very unhappy about it. There was simply no time to take the garment off, mend it and replace. Some actors have to put the left shoe (for example) on before the right, others won't wear green, (it's the colour of the fairies - same for bridesmaids and brides - don't upset the fairies/little people) and in many theatres, real flowers are not allowed on stage (except at curtain calls.) This one makes some sense, as if flowers of leaves drop on to the stage and get trodden on they can be slippery and therefore a hazard. There do seem to be many superstitions about the colour green and clothing. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 06:02:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EA2Qqq002812 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:02:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EA24VL021046 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:02:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EA23qw031848; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:02:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8EA1slc031749 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:02:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 18679 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2005 10:01:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2005 10:01:48 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914110011.01ccf370@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:01:47 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >>A couple more: >> >>(1) It's unlucky to baste anything with green thread. (Green is >>supposed to be a generally unlucky color anyway.) IIRC (and it was >>a LONG time ago) I think my grandmother actually told me this one. >> >>(2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone >>is actually wearing it. But the person wearing the clothing can >>avert evil consequences by holding a piece of thread between their >>teeth while the sewing is going on. (Can't remember where I saw >>this, but it was relatively recent.) > >A couple of times when I worked for the Royal Shakespeare Company I >had to "sew" someone into a costume which had split, and each time >the actor was very, very unhappy about it. There was simply no time >to take the garment off, mend it and replace. > >Some actors have to put the left shoe (for example) on before the >right, others won't wear green, (it's the colour of the fairies - >same for bridesmaids and brides - don't upset the fairies/little >people) and in many theatres, real flowers are not allowed on stage >(except at curtain calls.) This one makes some sense, as if flowers >of leaves drop on to the stage and get trodden on they can be >slippery and therefore a hazard. There do seem to be many >superstitions about the colour green and clothing. > >Suzi Just a silly thing - my e-mail provider has queried the use of the phrase "the fairies" as being a rude word - who programmes these things - have they never heard of fairies with wings and wands? Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 06:30:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EAUjLw012656 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:30:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EAUQhL023126 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:30:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EAUOkr041741; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:30:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EAUJ2q041706 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from dm20.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD523FAAB for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm20 Received: from mailweb31.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm20.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm20.432627c9.13857 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:30:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5DJ/u7WG4M8AIAAAAB,a9e82e2141929826460c512b14a7504b Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:30:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] lacing X-Originating-Ip: [203.27.62.92] Message-Id: <20050914033019.4D0A54D2@dm20.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just a comment on an interesting thing that I have just noticed about this portrait : http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor5.html - it looks to me as if the criss-cross lacing isn't just crossed over, it's tied in a half knot at each crossing. Joannah. wrote: Umm, I don't know your time period but late 1400s Florentine http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor3.html http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor5.html http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor20.html De >snip _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 06:56:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EAu39K015501 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:56:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EAtZtI024814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:55:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EAtWcs051495; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:55:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EAtR6d051390 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:55:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8EAtHo25530.; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:55:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:55:17 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:55:06 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[h-cost]=20*esk=FD=20Krumlov=20Castle,=20ph?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?oto=20buffet?= Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8EAu39K015501 Status: RO What fantastic pictures - love the theatre - the bears are cute too. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> dawn@reddawn.net 14/09/2005 01:44 >>> www.ckrumlov.cz/uk/seznamy/t_obrzam.htm Stumbled across this site while looking for something else. Appears to be a Czechoslovakian castle site with the most amazing collections of photos. Photos of the castle in excruciating detail, photos of the 17th century theatre and some extant costumes, photos of paintings from the castle gallery, photos of re-enactment events on the grounds, photos of state dinners in modern fancy dress, photos of I-don't -know-what... And if you follow the links you can take virtual tours of the place. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 07:48:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EBm4Y6016219 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:48:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EBjxfe033043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:46:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EBjvRa070654; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:45:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8EBjmUY070576 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:45:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 94323 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2005 11:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2005 11:45:42 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914124355.01d35ca0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:45:41 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[h-cost]_=C4=8Cesk=C3=BD_Krumlov_Castle, _?= photo buffe t In-Reply-To: <43277281.7060207@reddawn.net> References: <43277281.7060207@reddawn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:44 14/09/2005, you wrote: > www.ckrumlov.cz/uk/seznamy/t_obrzam.htm > >Stumbled across this site while looking for something else. Appears >to be a Czechoslovakian castle site with the most amazing >collections of photos. Photos of the castle in excruciating detail, >photos of the 17th century theatre and some extant costumes, photos >of paintings from the castle gallery, photos of re-enactment events >on the grounds, photos of state dinners in modern fancy dress, >photos of I-don't -know-what... > >And if you follow the links you can take virtual tours of the place. Amazing site - I love the bears too, especially the Christmas ones. The original costume designs are interesting too. What I wouldn't I give for similar photos of Warwick Castle, Alnwick, Arundel, Blenheim, Windsor..................................! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 09:31:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EDVJKh017565 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:31:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EDUQet051258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:30:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EDULHp017179; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EDU2ln016948 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:30:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:29:55 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:29:46 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO (2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone is actually wearing it. But the person wearing the clothing can avert evil consequences by holding a piece of thread between their teeth while the sewing is going on. (Can't remember where I saw this, but it was relatively recent.) ======================== Good thing I had never heard of this, I've stitched up way to many pairs of tights while they were on the performers out at faire. Just to much trouble for them to disrobe everything down to what is essentially the bottom layer. Haven't stuck anyone, or lost a needle..... yet :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 09:32:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EDWmxs017579 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:32:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EDWN8i051459 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:32:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EDWLxZ018319; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:32:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EDWE0h018189 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:32:09 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:31:58 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: At Long Last- the QE2! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Just lovely Karen! And I think your crown is a good choice in keeping with the portraits of QE you found. I have the site bookmarked for the cartridge pleating info, have a project this winter that will require it, thanks. Catherine Wooo Hooo Calontir :) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 10:34:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EEYfsA018405 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:34:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EEXxTK056993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:33:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EEXo1r054778; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:33:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EEXjbV054672 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:33:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.76.5b7840f8 (15900) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R35 (fwm-r35.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.139]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-3e1c432834b629a; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:26 -0400 Message-Id: <8C78750670D6F1A-EBC-A426@FWM-R35.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200509140306.j8E34PHg064672@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-R35.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.139) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:33:26 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200509140306.j8E34PHg064672@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.13964 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.139 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: trousers vs. hose X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for your replies. I was looking for the modern usage, I guess. I was reading something that said that "trousers" were introduced to Europe by northern barbarians sometime after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, and I remembered we'd just had a discussion about some early extant trousers on this list, so I was just wondering what the exact definition was. Sounds like the author of the article meant that the Romans wore two-piece leg coverings and the northerners liked to sew them together, no doubt because it can be a little drafty up there in Scandinavia. :) The bad thing about being self-educated is that one learns the meaning of specialized terms like "extant" but may miss basic words like "trousers." Thanks again, Tea Rose, who can draft patterns but has never set a zipper. ------------------------------ >Message: 15 >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:03:44 -0400 >From: "RON CARNEGIE" >Like many things on this list, some specification is needed. Do you mean how are the >words used today, in which I would agree with Joan, though I try to use period >terms when I can, and if not, when is the period in question? >Ron Carnegie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 10:43:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EEhkK0018593 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:43:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EEh66j058118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EEh5BJ061149; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:43:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EEgwOD061057 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:43:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp203.directcon.net [209.79.209.203]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id j8EEpoN15755 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:51:50 -0700 Message-ID: <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:39:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > At 04:03 14/09/2005, you wrote: > >I wonder if the green thread is related to the old use of green as > >the color of mourning (long before black)... because green grass > >grows on the grave. I've heard it was because the dye used in green thread wasn't colorfast, and could leave green marks on your fabric if used for basting. > >(2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone is > >actually wearing it. But the person wearing the clothing can avert > >evil consequences by holding a piece of thread between their teeth > >while the sewing is going on. (Can't remember where I saw this, but > >it was relatively recent.) My grandmother was a stickler for this one, but this is the first time I've heard it anywhere else. I may have posted here about it in the past, so possibly you heard it from me? I still have a hard time sewing on someone unless they have a thread in their teeth! She was from a Russian Jewish background, in case anyone's trying to trace such things. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 10:58:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EEwbY8018878 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:58:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EEvxsT060269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:57:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EEvvRx071306; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EEvnB0071191 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:57:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8EEvjJW028644 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:57:46 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.44 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> >(2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone is >> >actually wearing it. Even worse luck to iron something on a live body, and the thread between the teeth doesn't help there. Not that I tried it myself. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 11:24:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EFOjvD019270 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:24:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EFOBA8064548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:24:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EFNsXM090273; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cgp.netins.net (f1phy.netins.net [167.142.228.65]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EFNgqb090111 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:23:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from landofoz@netins.net) Received: from [66.43.209.42] (HELO denise8541f2db) by cgpf1.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.6) with SMTP id 799597703 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:23:39 -0500 Message-ID: <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> From: "Land of Oz" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1><003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:23:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Even worse luck to iron something on a live body, and the thread > between the teeth doesn't help there. > ahhh...so *that* is why the instructions that come with an iron actually specify "Do Not Attempt to Iron Garments While Being Worn"! Silly me, I thought it was common sense safety... Denise B _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 11:40:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EFeO0J019494 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:40:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EFdiaH066330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:39:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EFH5lY085154; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:18:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EFGhgD084848 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:16:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.29]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EFZ06-0001bS-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:16:42 -0400 Message-ID: <21318555.1126711002837.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:16:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hadn't heard about the spit. My German aunt used to attribute the flipped hem to someone's sending the wearer a kiss. (I'll resist any temptation to associate kisses and spit....!!!!!) --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message---- ... I ran into a superstition about hems flipping up at the edges somewhere in a book. Have you ever heard of that one? The character in the book had to spit on it before smoothing it down, if I recall correctly -- but it was more than 10 years ago that I read it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 11:48:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EFmjVT019643 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:48:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EFm4Dj067462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:48:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EFlwOA008487; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:48:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8EFlj3c008185 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:47:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 88292 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2005 15:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2005 15:47:36 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914164600.01ce7ed0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:47:36 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) In-Reply-To: <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 16:23 14/09/2005, you wrote: >> Even worse luck to iron something on a live body, and the thread >>between the teeth doesn't help there. > >ahhh...so *that* is why the instructions that come with an iron >actually specify "Do Not Attempt to Iron Garments While Being Worn"! > >Silly me, I thought it was common sense safety... And another one . If you put on a garment inside out (usually a vest/t-shirt, or knickers/underpants) you shouldn't change it, as that too would be bad luck. Too bad if it was trousers or pants!! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:09:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EK98a4023558 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EK80EI099141 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:08:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EK7XnY006769; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:07:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EK6Kae005851 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:06:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [199.184.176.8] (EHLO p03m115.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.12.2-00) with ESMTP id 1e288234.1769339824.1309.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:06:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from unknown [199.184.176.8] by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.12.2-00) with SMTP id a4678234.951135152.467.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:10:03 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:10:02 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F898@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Thread-Index: AcW5Vx3zfOvVsHMfRX+P81e7C/+H+gACKMLw From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2005 19:10:03.0275 (UTC) FILETIME=[E90AADB0:01C5B95F] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005081001)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8EK6Kae005851 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Clothing superstitions (and theatre) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, the original lore to wearing clothing inside out and fairies has to do with weird sod. *snip* Um . . . Weird sod? A definition, please? Kate McClure Who may have gardened in such . . . ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:31:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EKVj04023904 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EKV7jR008917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:31:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKV3Kv024550; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:31:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from janus.directcon.net (janus.directcon.net [206.170.184.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EEkEuD063341 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:46:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lists@margospatterns.com) Received: from dnyeaqvf (net15sp203.directcon.net [209.79.209.203]) by janus.directcon.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id j8EEt6N15833 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:55:06 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01c5b93a$83e51f80$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> From: To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:42:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO From: "Chris Laning" > (2) It's unlucky for anyone to sew or mend clothing while someone is actually wearing it. But the person wearing the clothing can avert evil consequences by holding a piece of thread between their teeth while the sewing is going on. (Can't remember where I saw this, but it was relatively recent.) Aha! I hadn't unsnarled all the replies on my earlier post, to see this was from you, Chris. I think you heard this from me, and were subjected to it, when I made you a costume a few years back. It was my grandmother's superstition. I don't know if it was a regional/cultural thing, or just familial. Margo _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:39:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EKdts1024057 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:39:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EKZmmi011238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:35:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKZfDG028032; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:35:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EF7RuQ078097 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:07:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EFYqy2Q57-0006UZ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:07:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c5b93e$01b95040$6a00a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:07:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I too have stitched several actors into their costumes before going on stage. You do want you can in a hurry. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:41:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EKfpBf024102 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EKfG3i014187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:41:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKfE2e032584; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav21.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EGMKXf034093 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:22:15 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV21.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:22:15 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> <4322F7A8.90602@msn.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050910180525.01d28f58@127.0.0.1> <43231A60.90906@msn.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re:effigy corst: reeds/bamboo for stiffening Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:22:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Sep 2005 16:22:15.0421 (UTC) FILETIME=[782212D0:01C5B948] X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > steel hoop boning over here doesn't hold the tips well either. I have > found that the spiral steel corset boning holds the tips well if you use a > particular method of attaching them....don't know if you saw the link to > my tutorial earlier. Sg Could you repost it please? I didn't need it at the time, but now I would love to have a look at it! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:42:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EKg5i9024106 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:42:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EKfffY014386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:41:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKfabt032941; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:41:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKfSbc032790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:41:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8EKZtjf014803 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:35:55 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43288AF4.5060809@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:41:24 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <000c01c5b93e$01b95040$6a00a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <000c01c5b93e$01b95040$6a00a8c0@Penny> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > I too have stitched several actors into their costumes before going on > stage. You do want you can in a hurry. ... and it's a lot better than superglue and staples. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:42:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EKg8HA024107 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:42:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EKflrc014431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:41:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKfgMs033038; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EGUPWZ040115 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:30:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CFBB6153B5 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:30:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] lacing Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:30:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050914033019.4D0A54D2@dm20.mta.everyone.net> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Actually, they lace each other. Meaning that instead of the lace going to the loop on the other side it uses the oppose lace as the loop. Does that make sense? De -----Original Message----- Just a comment on an interesting thing that I have just noticed about this portrait : http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor5.html - it looks to me as if the criss-cross lacing isn't just crossed over, it's tied in a half knot at each crossing. Joannah. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:46:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EKkLZ6024195 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:46:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EKk2m6015529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:46:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKjEtP035918; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:45:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EGqVhL056400 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:52:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.3.) id 6.1ab.3f5aff1e (3940) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:52:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <1ab.3f5aff1e.3059af46@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:52:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Got to be quick as in hurry (as ever)! I'd consider it to be a difference in the construction method, as trousers are actually cut quite differently to hosen (esp the 15th / 16th cent. variety). A couple of costume historians have suf=ggested that the construction of what we'd call trousers all but died out in this part of the world in medieval times in favour of hosen, and had to be almost rediscovered through breeches. That said I'd agree that the later you get the more blurred the terminology gets (I used to know a man who still called his trousers hose - but than again, others who used 'hose' to mean socks...) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 16:49:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EKnoda024248 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EKnTl1016255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:49:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EKmhJc038729; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:49:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EHBwDM070890 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:12:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mylaar@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h29so311152wxd for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:11:52 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=I+Si/lSc8p4/vqTK1IR1OHYeC/52Xafb1TPUQOp8PNCKIgjYRWBofIv/0hpSDe0EznoAf3sf56R7zZylqf97jv3o0O9ERmOhFuWW7PIra/rQixVBYqBKmRVV49EYa2dkEuqzbponl1b3fq97MgUqRbClliJz49dEtfR3ys5WHn4= Received: by 10.70.125.20 with SMTP id x20mr310054wxc; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.117.17 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1e65278305091410115d58819c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:11:52 -0500 From: jordana robinson To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) In-Reply-To: <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8EHBwDM070890 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/14/05, Land of Oz wrote: > ahhh...so *that* is why the instructions that come with an iron actually > specify "Do Not Attempt to Iron Garments While Being Worn"! > > Silly me, I thought it was common sense safety... at my old job, one of my coworkers confessed that the mark on his neck, which he had tried to pass off as a hickey, was in fact a burn from his attempt to iron the collar of his shirt while he was wearing it. (even worse, a jokespam email listing "silly" warning instructions had _just_ done the rounds of the office...) -jordana _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 17:12:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ELCsZR024549 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:12:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ELCIbr021289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:12:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ELBdYA056615; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:11:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ELBHnx056247 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:11:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8EL5kjf015017 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:05:46 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <432891F4.1020101@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:11:16 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> <1e65278305091410115d58819c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1e65278305091410115d58819c@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO jordana robinson wrote: > from his attempt to iron the collar of his shirt while he was wearing > it. I actually watched a person try to drive with one of those cardboard windshield sun things still on the car. He/She had bent down a corner to peer out. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 17:30:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ELUsuK024835 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:30:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ELURnm024872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:30:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ELS8pm068943; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:28:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ELQoQm067916 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:27:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id RAA13123; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:26:25 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200509142126.RAA13123@arkroyal.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:26:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200509142040.j8EKb97l029167@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8ELQoQm067916 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clothing Superstitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hmmm...... I've touched up a hem while I was wearing it. Maybe I should have spat on it instead Julie ************ Even worse luck to iron something on a live body, and the thread between the teeth doesn't help there. Not that I tried it myself. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 18:02:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EM2kIv025373 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EM2Dp5029390 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:02:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EM28jd093666; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51315.mail.yahoo.com (web51315.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.125]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8EM23XY093507 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:02:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 93849 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 2005 22:01:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QA/4gViDOTy18ptad/yh34Uh+hX6sXA52Mjw5Z/VIZWJWHnttrlc636oq4y/p8HjzASdlR+HybUhUoQeM6Y4kdp+sUelU0KKX4i7Y8Tf884uCweiKzC5nm95GAtdxHv6Y7OHVQyASTne7r1l78r3Wo2Jpprjwpgfgp64RXURRsk= ; Message-ID: <20050914220157.93847.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51315.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:01:57 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's unlucky to sew with green, because green dyes were notorious for coming off onto your garment or project. I have some green silk with just that problem--the thread is long gone, but there's a great ugly dark green splotch where it used to be. Never got wet, just crocking. I wouldn't baste anything with that thread, or embroider or sew anything, either. Ann in CT > Chris Laning > > A couple more: > > (1) It's unlucky to baste anything with green > thread. (Green is supposed to be a generally unlucky > color anyway.) IIRC (and it was a LONG time ago) I > think my grandmother actually told me this one. ____________________________________________________________ > 0 Chris Laning __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 18:32:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EMWDjU025720 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:32:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EMVYbD032502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:31:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EMVPrh013797; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:31:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EMVD8O013650 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:31:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EFfma1sOw-00076B; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:31:12 -0400 Message-ID: <006701c5b97c$057c90a0$6a00a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf><000c01c5b93e$01b95040$6a00a8c0@Penny> <43288AF4.5060809@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:31:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, I am guilty of stapling a hem when an actor needs to get on stage real quick. I have taped a bodice of a gown to a model. It helps with very low cut dress. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 18:45:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8EMjddG025881 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:45:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EMjHhH033868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:45:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EMifSc022584; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:45:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EMi8Qv022237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:44:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8EMcajf015569 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:38:36 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4328A7B5.9010702@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:44:05 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf><000c01c5b93e$01b95040$6a00a8c0@Penny> <43288AF4.5060809@thibault.org> <006701c5b97c$057c90a0$6a00a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <006701c5b97c$057c90a0$6a00a8c0@Penny> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > I am guilty of stapling a hem when an actor needs to get on stage real > quick. I was trying to be amusing -- sorry it wasn't clear. But don't staples really mess up the fabric? Pulls and such? cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 19:17:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ENHOGH026784 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:17:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EMbFG3033035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EHHU9c075307; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EHGH9H074394 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:17:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C6022153BB for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:16:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:16:28 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050914.091421.1488.1.Cley@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, the original lore to wearing clothing inside out and fairies has to do with weird sod. If you step on weird sod you will walk forever, the way to break the spell once you figured out you stepped on weird sod is to turn your clothing inside out (usually it is just the jacket). One lore in Cardaff(?) says switch shoes from one foot to the other. This info is from a friend working on her doctorial thesis on Irish and African folklore. De -----Original Message----- but, if you wear a garment inside out, it protects you from the faeries! Arlys > And another one . If you put on a garment inside out (usually a > vest/t-shirt, or knickers/underpants) you shouldn't change it, as > that too would be bad luck. Too bad if it was trousers or pants!! > > Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 19:17:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ENHOoi026789 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:17:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EMbFG1033035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:16:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EGYwV6043273; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EGUPiB040127 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:30:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 90E20153B8 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:30:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:30:35 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <21318555.1126711002837.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Importance: Normal Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO This sounds like a semi practical thing. Like using spit to smooth a cowlick then a superstition. -----Original Message----- ... I ran into a superstition about hems flipping up at the edges somewhere in a book. Have you ever heard of that one? The character in the book had to spit on it before smoothing it down, if I recall correctly -- but it was more than 10 years ago that I read it. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 19:17:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ENHbGJ026797 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:17:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EN9KvQ036758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EL0uSB048338; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EInE5C045615 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:49:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EFcJl-000Gbx-6z for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:49:13 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:47:37 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914164600.01ce7ed0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914164600.01ce7ed0@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote >At 16:23 14/09/2005, you wrote: >>> Even worse luck to iron something on a live body, and the thread >>>between the teeth doesn't help there. >> >>ahhh...so *that* is why the instructions that come with an iron >>actually specify "Do Not Attempt to Iron Garments While Being Worn"! >> >>Silly me, I thought it was common sense safety... > > >And another one . If you put on a garment inside out (usually a >vest/t-shirt, or knickers/underpants) you shouldn't change it, as that >too would be bad luck. Too bad if it was trousers or pants!! > >Suzi > I'd forgotten that one, but yes, I grew up with that. Have to hope you notice before you get it completely on, it's OK if you're only half-way into the garment. Jean -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 19:17:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ENHg9g026802 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:17:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EN9KvO036758 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:16:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EGGU52029736; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:16:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8EGG0R6029294 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:16:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBUSVFRA2RZFGS for (sender ); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K4VDRSXR; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:15:21 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:07:51 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Message-ID: <20050914.091421.1488.1.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:3:1697757190 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgkhUHFUfIW1KGdVshWf2nkM= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO but, if you wear a garment inside out, it protects you from the faeries! Arlys > And another one . If you put on a garment inside out (usually a > vest/t-shirt, or knickers/underpants) you shouldn't change it, as > that too would be bad luck. Too bad if it was trousers or pants!! > > Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 19:17:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ENHglI026803 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:17:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8EMbFG5033035 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:16:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EIJcrV023313; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:20:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8EIHsVi022185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:19:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8EHUk5m009891 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:30:46 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.44 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1><003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:30:46 -0400 (EDT) From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Denise said, > ahhh...so *that* is why the instructions that come with an iron actually > specify "Do Not Attempt to Iron Garments While Being Worn"! > > Silly me, I thought it was common sense safety... No, not at all, it's complete superstitious nonsense. Elderly relatives will claim it causes huge blisters and worse, but there is no real cause & effect. :-) Ok, here is a question - this has been in letters sent to Ann Landers & Dear Abby in the past. A woman starts a new job (usually as a secretary) and the boss (male of course) either learns or assumes that she sews. He asks her to mend his trousers, a crotch seam, while he is wearing them. It's potentially a type of sexual harassment, and Ann or Abby have suggested that the lady tell him to bring the trousers in the next day and she will be happy to fix them. The story is historic in that I don't think sewing is such a universal skill any more that any woman can be assumed to know it. Plus we have a much greater awareness of sexual harassment. Funny thing is, I have repaired a boss' trousers. In my last job, the boss is a horse enthusiast and wondered if I could patch her riding breeches. And I have also advised plenty of people that dry cleaners often have a tailor/seamstress on staff who can replace a broken zipper, etc. I've often been asked if something can be repaired, a few more times than being asked to actually do the repair myself. It never hurts to keep stash of safety pins in the desk drawer! :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 19:36:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ENac8U027515 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:36:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ENZtt3039583 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:35:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ENZpvG054738; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8ENZgSg054604 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:35:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 89061 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2005 23:35:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Sep 2005 23:35:33 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050915003041.01d39100@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:35:33 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... In-Reply-To: <59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> <59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > Ok, here is a question - this has been in letters sent to Ann Landers >& Dear Abby in the past. A woman starts a new job (usually as a >secretary) and the boss (male of course) either learns or assumes >that she sews. He asks her to mend his trousers, a crotch seam, >while he is wearing them. It's potentially a type of sexual >harassment, and Ann or Abby have suggested that the lady tell him to >bring the trousers in the next day and she will be happy to fix them. > > The story is historic in that I don't think sewing is such a >universal skill any more that any woman can be assumed to know it. >Plus we have a much greater awareness of sexual harassment. > > Funny thing is, I have repaired a boss' trousers. In my last job, >the boss is a horse enthusiast and wondered if I could patch her >riding breeches. > > And I have also advised plenty of people that dry cleaners often have >a tailor/seamstress on staff who can replace a broken zipper, etc. >I've often been asked if something can be repaired, a few more times >than being asked to actually do the repair myself. > > It never hurts to keep stash of safety pins in the desk drawer! :-) I once had an actor swear that the zipper was stuck on the very tight white jeans he was wearing, and could I help him take them off. (It was his first day in the theatre - it was not mine!) When I turned round with a pair of very sharp pointed scissors in my hand, the zipper miraculously unstuck itself. (I later discovered the only acting he had previously done was in porn movies - he lasted the season with us, but I never heard of him since - funny that!) Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 19:55:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ENt86J027695 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:55:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ENsccm041132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:54:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ENsaTZ064712; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:54:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ENsW2u064673 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:54:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EFh5D0ZMD-0001tu; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:54:31 -0400 Message-ID: <006f01c5b987$a8892190$6a00a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1> <003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf><000c01c5b93e$01b95040$6a00a8c0@Penny> <43288AF4.5060809@thibault.org><006701c5b97c$057c90a0$6a00a8c0@Penny> <4328A7B5.9010702@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:54:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia, I got that you were being funny. I thought it was funny too until I thought about it... OMG, I have done that! When you are in a rush, and needing to get people on stage, you really don't care. Stapling is a lot less painful to the actors' legs than sending them dancing on stage with a straight-pins in their hems. Staples and paper clips are the last dig thing to do in an emergency. I guess I started my emergency tricks when I was in 6th grade... I used to hem up all the girls' skirts on the bus to school and let down their hems on the way home. Mom's never knew how short their darlings skirts where when they were at school. I was carrying my sewing supplies with me for Home Ec. class during this time. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 20:34:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F0Yr8s028258 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:34:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F0YYl4044423 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:34:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F0YWWo084878; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:34:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F0YSlp084833 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:34:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EFhhq3vw5-0003a4; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:34:26 -0400 Message-ID: <007501c5b98d$3c8602f0$6a00a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509142126.RAA13123@arkroyal.concentric.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Superstitions Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:34:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie, It makes me wonder if a straightening iron for hair would work for last minute hem pressing? Maybe I will try it in a rush one day. I have ironed some full-skirt hems while a few actresses and models were wearing them. If you have confidence in what you are doing and the actor/model has confidence in your abilities, they won't be scared. After one night of rehearsals, the actor/model can pick up on your abilities really quick. During West Side Story last year, I rigged two full sized flags into two actresses' underskirts with safety pins. The actresses lifted their skirts to reveal the flags at the end of the song America. We had three minutes to do the pinning between scenes. It worked. You can see a photo at: http://www.costumegallery.com/Manchester/WWS/flags3.jpg I had the safety pins already in their place in the skirts and petticoats, when it came time to put the flags in them, my teams of dressers knew exactly where to place them. The actors knew exactly how to hold the skirts during the quick pinning to make the process quicker. I had my dressers practice the pinning during dress rehearsals several times to get the timing down to three minutes. You can't tell from the photo but the middle of the flags are also pinned to the waistband of the petticoats to hold the flags in place while the actresses danced vigorously to America. You could not tell the flags were in the skirts until the actresses lifted their skirts. We tried Velcro and snaps to hold the flags in the skirts but they were not strong enough to hold up the flags through the America scene. These girls really shook their skirts during the number. They looked great when they shook the skirts in the dance! Especially the girl with the gold petticoat! Thankfully the pins never opened and the flags stayed in the skirts. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 21:43:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F1hEu7028948 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:43:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F1gbCv050657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F1gYQP018295; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F1gR7r018211 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:42:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.138.171]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050915014221.KVMQ11606.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:42:21 -0400 Message-ID: <006601c5b997$2a0fb580$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1><003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf><58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net><011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> <59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:45:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > No, not at all, it's complete superstitious nonsense. Elderly > relatives will claim it causes huge blisters and worse, but there is > no real cause & effect. :-) > > Ok, here is a question - this has been in letters sent to Ann Landers > & Dear Abby in the past. A woman starts a new job (usually as a > secretary) and the boss (male of course) either learns or assumes > that she sews. He asks her to mend his trousers, a crotch seam, > while he is wearing them. It's potentially a type of sexual > harassment, and Ann or Abby have suggested that the lady tell him to > bring the trousers in the next day and she will be happy to fix them. > > The story is historic in that I don't think sewing is such a > universal skill any more that any woman can be assumed to know it. > Plus we have a much greater awareness of sexual harassment. > > Funny thing is, I have repaired a boss' trousers. In my last job, > the boss is a horse enthusiast and wondered if I could patch her > riding breeches. > > And I have also advised plenty of people that dry cleaners often have > a tailor/seamstress on staff who can replace a broken zipper, etc. > I've often been asked if something can be repaired, a few more times > than being asked to actually do the repair myself. > > It never hurts to keep stash of safety pins in the desk drawer! :-) > > -Carol On a similar note, co-workers not knowing you have sewing skills can be a fun advantage. A supervisor at my last hotel job was in the habit of teasing and pranking me mercilessly, and I would continually warn him that 'one of these days' I would get him back. I very patiently waited until one day when he came in to drop off his suit for the hotel cleaners. The instant he was gone I grabbed it out of the bin, sat down with a hotel sewing kit and in very short order had one pant leg hemmed up an inch or two shorter than the other. Back into the bin it went. A couple of days later he came in with his newly cleaned and pressed suit, none the wiser. I was not there that day (sadly) but he apparently walked around for most of the morning trying to pull one pant leg down. (step tug tug grumble, step step grumble tug, step tug, give leg a shake, repeat.) The front office had a great laugh, and John was very careful not to get too carried away with his jokes ever after... Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 22:04:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F24H6w029220 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F23mbq052933 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:03:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F23lhe028324; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:03:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F23aVA028202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:03:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F3W6i5001555 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:32:06 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:03:29 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <20050914033019.4D0A54D2@dm20.mta.everyone.net> In-Reply-To: <20050914033019.4D0A54D2@dm20.mta.everyone.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509142203.30078.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Wednesday 14 September 2005 6:30 am, Joannah Hansen wrote: > Just a comment on an interesting thing that I have just noticed about this > portrait : > > http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor5.html > > - it looks to me as if the criss-cross lacing isn't just crossed over, it's > tied in a half knot at each crossing. I think this is the painting which Jen Thompson of the Festive Attyre site says that the laces are twisted around each other in the center (kind of the way you make pretzels), and that's how it looks to me. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 14 22:14:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F2EJXj029349 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:14:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F2DxIC053916 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:13:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F2Dw8a033130; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F2Dskw033103 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:13:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 48EE317EA4 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:13:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: Clothing superstitions (and theatre) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:14:11 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F898@denpexmb01-dex-bup> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It was believed that you were taking a chance stepping off commonly traversed paths to say, take a short cut, because you might step on weird sod or enchanted piece of ground. Upon stepping on the weird sod your sense of distance and direction is a skewed and you continue walking and you may even pass up your destination and not register it in your mind. Someone I know told me that they were visiting friends in Ireland. They thought they would be good guests and go to town and get some food for the larder. On the way back they thought they would try creating a short cut and walked off the path. After a while they noticed the time and realized that they should have reached their destination an hour ago. One of group after a bit suggested to turn their jackets and sweaters inside out. So they did. They came to a road and a man came walking by and they asked directions and the man said they roughly 9 miles, actually he said the equivalent of 9 miles in kilometers(?) back down the road in the opposite direction they were walking. They walked a bit to the man's neighbor's house and the neighbor drove them to their friend's house. Telling them next time don't be going of the path. They got to the house and their legs were shaking as their muscles were not use to such long walks. Side note: I was informed that though fairies are known to lay the weird sods, 90% of the time it would be the Leprechauns. De -----Original Message----- Actually, the original lore to wearing clothing inside out and fairies has to do with weird sod. *snip* Um . . . Weird sod? A definition, please? Kate McClure Who may have gardened in such . . . ;) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 00:03:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F43QkT030602 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:03:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F42q03065163 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:02:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F42nQq085296; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts12.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F42jfX085218 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:02:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([67.68.138.171]) by simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050915040239.HRQD1005.simmts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:02:39 -0400 Message-ID: <007a01c5b9aa$b4957600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:05:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] looking for: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm hoping someone here can help me. I am looking for an online source for a ladies high heeled Oxford shoe. Zappos had, but they do not ship to Canada, and the price was a bit above what I wanted to pay (including shipping and exchange). Any ideas are greatfully accepted! :-) Sheridan *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely. Ogden Nash _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 00:11:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F4B11p030691 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:11:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F4AO2f065926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:10:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F4ALZN088714; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:10:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F4AHKl088625 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:10:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431913B609 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:10:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4328F460.7040800@reddawn.net> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:11:12 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] trousers vs. hose References: <200509121804.j8CI09HA022710@net.indra.com> <8C786CAD5C1C5D9-BD0-2B4@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C786CAD5C1C5D9-BD0-2B4@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO tearoses@aol.com wrote: > I would like your expert opinions on what the "official" difference is between trousers and leggings or hose. Is it just that trousers aren't as fitted in the legs? Or are trousers one piece while leggings are two? > Trousers are a loose fitting garment typically reaching down from waist to the knee or the ankle. Related to the word trews, which now means close fitting tartan plaid pants, but used to mean any kind of trousers. Breeches, by comparison are typically only knee length. Leggings typically cover from the ankle to the knee, but can go higher, esp if worn with garters or suspenders to hold them up. Leggings are also considered closer fitting than trousers. Hose cover the foot and lower part of the leg, though historically they reached higher. Hose were typically worn with knee breeches, or just tied on to a doublet. So, I think the differences have to do with which parts of the body are covered more than how many pieces they come in. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 00:29:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F4TkJi030870 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:29:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F4TIr4068037 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:29:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F4THF7099347; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F4TAMH099285 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:29:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-21.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.21]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j8F49xwM001401 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:10:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914004143.01c80ce8@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:43:01 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] serging knits help please! In-Reply-To: <4326E1B4.3070206@msn.com> References: <005901c5b868$89bcab80$6701a8c0@kimathlon> <4326E1B4.3070206@msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, I didn't write any suggestions, I asked the original question. I'm using cotton knit fabric that does unravel so I need to finish the edges before I sew it up. Even my polar fleece got stretched on the damn machine last night... Cheers, Danielle At 09:27 AM 9/13/2005, you wrote: >Danielle writes some great suggestions here.......my question is why >you are serging the edges? Perhaps I have misunderstood. Unless >you mean you are just pieces together....there shouldn't be any need >to "finish" the fabric edges.... > >kim baird wrote: > >>Danielle-- >> >>There is a simple adjustment you can make to fix this. >> >> >>Cheers, >>Danielle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 00:29:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8F4Tliw030872 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:29:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8F4TIi5068036 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:29:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F4THIf099349; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.116]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8F4TC81099306 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:29:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-21.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.21]) by ms-smtp-04.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j8F49xwN001401 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:10:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050914004305.01c26170@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:46:33 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: RE: [h-cost] serging knits help please! In-Reply-To: <005901c5b868$89bcab80$6701a8c0@kimathlon> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050912232930.01c99618@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <005901c5b868$89bcab80$6701a8c0@kimathlon> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Kim, Thanks! There is a nob on the side of the machine that I think might be this differential feed thing, I will try and track down the manual so I can see if it says anything about this. My serger is about 9 years old so I don't think it is too old. Hopefully, I can get this solved, since it is even stretching out my polar fleece (I know it isn't going to ravel, I was just trying to use it as a gauge to do a narrow rolled hem). I will also try and track down the book. Thank you again. Cheers, Danielle At 08:39 AM 9/13/2005, you wrote: >Danielle-- > >There is a simple adjustment you can make to fix this. > >Your serger has differential feed (unless it's VERY old), which means >there are 2 sets of feed dogs under the presser foot, and they can be >adjusted to go at different speeds. Depending on the fabric you are >serging, you will need to adjust the differential feed knob one >direction or the other. > >Look in your manual--there should be illustrations of wavy edges (like >you got) or gathered edges, and how to adjust the differential feed to >correct each situation. > >What I do is use a scrap of my fabric to test before I sew the actual >seam. Then is the edge is ruffling or stretching, I adjust the feed. > >If you don't have the manual, check out serger books at the library or >book store, or just experiment with your knob on scrap fabrics. You will >be amazed at what a difference that differential feed makes.There is an >article in Threads Apr/May '00 issue titled "Make Sense of Your Serger's >Differential Feed" that should help. > >Taunton published a very good how-to book for sergers, Serging Fine >Fabrics. I've seen it discounted at Hamilton Books. > >Kim--who resisted learning to serge for many years before discovering >what a wonderful tool the darn thing is! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 10:10:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8FEAQ8C003859 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:10:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8FE9Ksc024998 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:09:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FE9DgA035342; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:09:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FE9AJ3035305 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:09:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FE95sw010764 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:09:05 -0400 Message-ID: <4329807E.7020903@msn.com> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:09:02 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for: References: <007a01c5b9aa$b4957600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <007a01c5b9aa$b4957600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you mean the black and white kind? Is it for costume? I have a pair of those I never wear.....want em? (US size 8 (I think). Shane & Sheridan wrote: >I'm hoping someone here can help me. > >I am looking for an online source for a ladies high heeled Oxford shoe. >Zappos had, but they do not ship to Canada, and the price was a bit above >what I wanted to pay (including shipping and exchange). > >Any ideas are greatfully accepted! :-) > >Sheridan > >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >You are only young once, >but you can stay immature indefinitely. > >Ogden Nash > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 11:48:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8FFmSvT005184 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:48:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8FFlbOQ036350 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:47:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FFlUvc005627; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:47:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FFlPmD005546 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:47:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id LAA08433; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:47:24 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200509151547.LAA08433@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:47:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200509150145.j8F1gZ98018306@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8FFlPmD005546 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Clothing Superstitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ***my comments > > It makes me wonder if a straightening iron for hair would work for last > minute hem pressing? Maybe I will try it in a rush one day. ***I'm used that too..collar, twisty button placket, hem. Not very effective, but better than nothing. Better is noticing the problem the night before and spraying it with a mister bottle and letting it dry . > During West Side Story last year, I rigged two full sized flags into two > actresses' underskirts with safety pins. The actresses lifted their skirts to reveal the flags at the end of the song America. We had three minutes to do the pinning between scenes. It worked. You can see a photo at: > http://www.costumegallery.com/Manchester/WWS/flags3.jpg > I had the safety pins already in their place in the skirts and petticoats, when it came time to put the flags in them, my teams of dressers knew exactly where to place them. The actors knew exactly how to hold the skirts during the quick pinning to make the process quicker. I had my dressers practice the pinning during dress rehearsals several times to get the timing down to three minutes. > ***very impressive - and a great bit of theatrics Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 15:41:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8FJfnWh008447 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:41:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8FJf9U1066103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:41:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FJeJhi090819; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:40:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from host101.apollohosting.com (host101.apollohosting.com [209.239.35.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FEDl7i037763 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:14:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from wickedfrau@msn.com) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (71-35-65-29.phnx.qwest.net [71.35.65.29]) by host101.apollohosting.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8FEDlsw013973 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:13:47 -0400 Message-ID: <4329819B.9030207@msn.com> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:13:47 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: <20050909064754.16149.qmail@web25706.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4321879B.3090004@msn.com> <006101c5b59f$2355cbe0$0301010a@michaela> <005101c5b609$042f5960$915083d1@rmitchellras> <6.2.3.4.0.20050910140926.01d305a8@127.0.0.1> <4322F7A8.90602@msn.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050910180525.01d28f58@127.0.0.1> <43231A60.90906@msn.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Steel bnoning tip tutorial-was:effigy corst...... stiffening X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Check out the 7/24/04 entry. http://www.saragrace.net/3E_4_QEW_Corset.html Just a suggestion....you might want to change the subject line of your emails to draw attention to your request...I almost didn't read it! Sg > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 17:35:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8FLZaUu011486 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:35:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8FLYb2D079640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:34:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FLY2Xf078925; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:34:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FLWpFi078072 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:33:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.50.174.142]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050915213245.HFIF11463.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:32:45 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c5ba3d$3bd1be20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007a01c5b9aa$b4957600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <4329807E.7020903@msn.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:34:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I'm looking for something in the same shape as the one on this site (17th picture down, about half way down the page) mostly just for wearing, costume use is a bonus. :-) If its a black and white wing tip, that would be fantastic! I find I might soon be in the market for actual 'office' clothes, and I don't want boring. I have been wearing uniforms for waaaaay too long, and I'm looking for vintage, retro and otherwise, to jazz up the closet. I'd be more than happy to take them off of your hands (or would that be feet?), name your price... Sheridan From: "WickedFrau" > Do you mean the black and white kind? Is it for costume? I have a pair > of those I never wear.....want em? (US size 8 (I think). > > Shane & Sheridan wrote: > > >I'm hoping someone here can help me. > > > >I am looking for an online source for a ladies high heeled Oxford shoe. > >Zappos had, but they do not ship to Canada, and the price was a bit above > >what I wanted to pay (including shipping and exchange). > > > >Any ideas are greatfully accepted! :-) > > > >Sheridan > > > >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > >You are only young once, > >but you can stay immature indefinitely. > > > >Ogden Nash _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 18:30:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8FMUQPb012551 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:30:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8FMKUqe085051 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:29:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FLpdTC091996; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:51:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts7.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.165]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8FLeJjo083328 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:40:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([70.50.174.142]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050915214005.GLQW23474.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:40:05 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c5ba3e$44a30440$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <007a01c5b9aa$b4957600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada><4329807E.7020903@msn.com> <001901c5ba3d$3bd1be20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:41:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane & Sheridan" > I'm looking for something in the same shape as the one on this site (17th > picture down, about half way down the page oops, I suppose posting the site would be a good idea eh? http://www.vintagefashionguild.org/footwearhistory.html Sheridan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 21:39:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G1dbWR014876 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:39:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G1d65m006542 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:39:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G1d1rU029310; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:39:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S4.cableone.net (s4.cableone.net [24.116.0.230]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G1cse1029217 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:38:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [69.92.42.132]) by S4.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S4) with ESMTP id 31041873 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:49:08 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:39:22 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c5ba5f$76f60020$6701a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-SpamDetect: ****: 4.000000 Suspicious proportion of text in CAPS=1.0, Aspam=3.0 X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 0, First 31, in=7, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 69.92.42.132 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FW: Bjarne alert! X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne-- Have you seen this book on eBay? Kim http://cgi.ebay.com/ART-OF-THE-EMBROIDERER-FAB-COSTUME-HISTORY-BOOK_W0QQ itemZ8334848560QQcategoryZ48864QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 22:47:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G2lPLa015828 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:47:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G2kvCX013020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:46:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G2kqRZ062268; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:46:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G2kkEe062224 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:46:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from alderweb@vaxxine.com) Received: from pc.vaxxine.com (ppp133.digi-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.232.133]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8G2kRJt017017 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:46:45 -0400 (EDT) X-RCPT-To: Message-Id: <4.3.0.20050915225234.00a6ef00@pop.vaxxine.com> X-Sender: alderweb@vaxxine.com@pop.vaxxine.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:54:16 -0400 To: Historical Costume From: david webb In-Reply-To: <007a01c5b9aa$b4957600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] FYI - Ladies costume inspired by the court of Napoleon X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.guildford.gov.uk/GuildfordWeb/Leisure/Guildford+House/Exhibitions/Golden+Bees+Costume.htm Golden Bees : An exhibition of ladies costume inspired by the Court of Napoleon. from 21 September to 22 October 2005 Guildford House Gallery hosts an exhibition of costume made by local costume maker Sarah Vickery. Sarah has been a dedicated member of the Napoleonic Association, a world-wide research and re-enactment society for the past 12 years. She specialises the designing and making of period clothing inspired by the ladies of the Napoleonic Court. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 23:06:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G36Nm1016112 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:06:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G35reX014861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:05:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G35qcW071015; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:05:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G35mOS070937 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j8G35g313895 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:05:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) In-Reply-To: <4.3.0.20050915225234.00a6ef00@pop.vaxxine.com> References: <4.3.0.20050915225234.00a6ef00@pop.vaxxine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <62A63D0B-62D2-4147-8D4C-4F902A52851C@alfalfapress.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] FYI - Ladies costume inspired by the court of Napoleon Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:05:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hiya, The bees depicted on this fabric were first found in the grave of Childeric I and used to strengthen the Hapsburg claim to the throne of France in some obscure way that still eludes me. :D Something about fleur de lys being Bourbon. So Napoleon used the bees in a political way to impress and to tie his reign to those of the past. Althea On Sep 15, 2005, at 7:54 PM, david webb wrote: > > > http://www.guildford.gov.uk/GuildfordWeb/Leisure/Guildford+House/ > Exhibitions/Golden+Bees+Costume.htm > > Golden Bees : An exhibition of ladies costume inspired by the Court > of Napoleon. > from 21 September to 22 October 2005 > Guildford House Gallery hosts an exhibition of costume made by > local costume maker Sarah Vickery. > Sarah has been a dedicated member of the Napoleonic Association, a > world-wide research and re-enactment society for the past 12 years. > She specialises the designing and making of period clothing > inspired by the ladies of the Napoleonic Court. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 15 23:14:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G3EA2M016262 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G3DjN8015460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:13:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G3Dind074459; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:13:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp114.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp114.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.213]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8G3DYZi074373 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:13:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 4552 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2005 03:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp114.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2005 03:13:29 -0000 Message-ID: <009f01c5ba6c$9c7932b0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509142126.RAA13123@arkroyal.concentric.com> <007501c5b98d$3c8602f0$6a00a8c0@Penny> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Superstitions Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:13:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Did you try "whopper popper" snaps on the flags for West Side Story? I can't imagine a good number of those not holding anything. They are the giant snaps used by most costumers in theater these days for all sorts of quick change/take it apart /add something on needs. Anyway, if you didn't, and you need to add a special effect like the flags again in the future, you might try them. They are better than velcro because they don't make any sound, but they do have to be worked in a bit, as they really really hold at first (making it difficult to take things off and put them back initially). angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing Superstitions > Julie, > > It makes me wonder if a straightening iron for hair would work for last > minute hem pressing? Maybe I will try it in a rush one day. > > I have ironed some full-skirt hems while a few actresses and models were > wearing them. If you have confidence in what you are doing and the > actor/model has confidence in your abilities, they won't be scared. After > one night of rehearsals, the actor/model can pick up on your abilities > really quick. > > During West Side Story last year, I rigged two full sized flags into two > actresses' underskirts with safety pins. The actresses lifted their > skirts to reveal the flags at the end of the song America. We had three > minutes to do the pinning between scenes. It worked. You can see a photo > at: > http://www.costumegallery.com/Manchester/WWS/flags3.jpg > I had the safety pins already in their place in the skirts and petticoats, > when it came time to put the flags in them, my teams of dressers knew > exactly where to place them. The actors knew exactly how to hold the > skirts during the quick pinning to make the process quicker. I had my > dressers practice the pinning during dress rehearsals several times to get > the timing down to three minutes. You can't tell from the photo but the > middle of the flags are also pinned to the waistband of the petticoats to > hold the flags in place while the actresses danced vigorously to America. > You could not tell the flags were in the skirts until the actresses lifted > their skirts. We tried Velcro and snaps to hold the flags in the skirts > but they were not strong enough to hold up the flags through the America > scene. These girls really shook their skirts during the number. They > looked great when they shook the skirts in the dance! Especially the girl > with the gold petticoat! Thankfully the pins never opened and the flags > stayed in the skirts. > > Penny E. Ladnier > Owner, > The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com > Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com > Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 00:04:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G44Zls016939 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:04:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G43qJw021196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:03:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G43o6E098990; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:03:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8G43jNG098935 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:03:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lizyoung@fenris.net) Received: (qmail 99755 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2005 04:03:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (glenn.mcgregor@sbcglobal.net@69.238.170.234 with plain) by smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2005 04:03:40 -0000 Message-ID: <432A4419.2000204@fenris.net> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:03:37 -0700 From: Elizabeth Young User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for: References: <007a01c5b9aa$b4957600$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada><4329807E.7020903@msn.com> <001901c5ba3d$3bd1be20$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> <002701c5ba3e$44a30440$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <002701c5ba3e$44a30440$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Shane & Sheridan wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shane & Sheridan" > > >>I'm looking for something in the same shape as the one on this site (17th >>picture down, about half way down the page > > > oops, I suppose posting the site would be a good idea eh? > http://www.vintagefashionguild.org/footwearhistory.html > > Sheridan These might not be just what you are looking for; they do not lace, but buckle. The shape is reminiscent. http://www.masseyscredit.com/ProductDetails.aspx?family_id=6770 liz young _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 00:06:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G46JS7016963 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:06:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G45rcx021321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:05:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G45rT4099833; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:05:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G45abk099728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:05:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0276.floodcity.net ([198.93.212.22]:1575 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1EG7Tm-0000Mu-4v for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:05:39 -0400 Message-ID: <432A4486.60101@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:05:26 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1><003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf> <58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> <011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> <59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO aquazoo@patriot.net wrote: > > It never hurts to keep stash of safety pins in the desk drawer! :-) > > -Carol > Yeah, I bet they wouldn't be askin' you to sew a seam on their crotch if you went at them with safety pins, either. LOL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 00:07:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G47Q5k016981 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G475Ug021420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:07:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G474tS000515; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:07:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G44LZZ099230 for ; Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:04:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=LFbMpzHvmqacuhzRyJH0ESJ1h6NHfrWnf8og7QAoM4ro7UC9whzkhI+zu0q/jTIM; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.126.141.253] (helo=[172.16.1.10]) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EG7SW-0003PW-Mu for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:04:21 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@igc.org@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20050914220157.93847.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050914220157.93847.qmail@web51315.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:10:20 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22ccca66549e7d22e9eb62f067a50c996e0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.126.141.253 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: lacing and clothing superstitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >A couple of people have commented to the effect that: >It's unlucky to sew with green, because green dyes >were notorious for coming off onto your garment or >project. What's interesting about this is that just about any dark or dark-ish color can "crock" or rub off dye like this -- black or red, for instance. But for some reason, this seems to be the thing everybody says specifically when trying to rationalize the idea that basting with _green_ is "unlucky" -- as though there were something particularly unstable about green dye, which as far as I know is no worse than other deep colored dyes. I did an experiment once with different colors of embroidery thread, stitching them on white cloth and then pulling the stitches out to see whether they left marks. ALL the dark colors left marks. I tried washing and drying the embroidery thread and repeating the experiment, and this time there were no marks when I pulled the thread out. I still have a piece of cloth somewhere with "Washed thread leaves no marks" stitched into it. :) I suppose the moral is that it's not a good idea to baste with _any_ dark or bright colored thread, except on fabric that's darker than the thread is. I usually tuck a spool of cheap bargain-bin pastel thread into my work box somewhere just for basting with. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 03:56:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8G7uVTp013633 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 03:56:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8G7tv0P039527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 01:55:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G7trSw098903; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 01:55:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8G7tmuY098847 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 01:55:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8G7tgo14252.; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:55:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:55:42 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:55:29 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] FYI - Ladies costume inspired by the court of Napoleon Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8G7uVTp013633 Status: RO Wow! Fantastic - I wish I was anywhere near Guildford. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> alderweb@vaxxine.com 16/09/2005 03:54 >>> http://www.guildford.gov.uk/GuildfordWeb/Leisure/Guildford+House/Exhibitions/Golden+Bees+Costume.htm Golden Bees : An exhibition of ladies costume inspired by the Court of Napoleon. from 21 September to 22 October 2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 06:33:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GAXGoo017002 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GAWklc052246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 04:32:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GAWisH061567; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 04:32:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay20-dav10.bay20.hotmail.com [64.4.54.190]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GAWdEJ061504 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 04:32:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 03:32:33 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 70.18.150.169 by BAY20-DAV10.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:32:33 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.18.150.169] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1><003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf><58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net><011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db> <59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:32:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:32:32 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2005 10:32:33.0543 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2C91170:01C5BAA9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8GAXGoo017002 Status: RO Unless you iron garments at too high a temperature, and the fibers melt..... ----- Original Message ----- From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: Historical Costume Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... Denise said, > ahhh...so *that* is why the instructions that come with an iron actually > specify "Do Not Attempt to Iron Garments While Being Worn"! > > Silly me, I thought it was common sense safety... No, not at all, it's complete superstitious nonsense. Elderly relatives will claim it causes huge blisters and worse, but there is no real cause & effect. :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 08:31:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GCV1Ee021158 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:31:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GCULpd066786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:30:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GCUH1u009680; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:30:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxsf35.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf35.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.160]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GCUEUo009634 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:30:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lotsofteapots@charter.net) Received: from mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.150]) by mxsf35.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j8GCU8Fg023424 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:30:08 -0400 Received: from 24-183-100-224.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com (HELO OurComputer) (24.183.100.224) by mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 16 Sep 2005 08:30:09 -0400 Message-Id: <4cdj5t$1csga37@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,116,1125892800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="1506289767:sNHT22104156" From: "Rebecca Schmitt" To: "'Historical Costume'" Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:30:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 thread-index: AcW6ul1HyGWpJxeIQ9KPZP6bQOxW5Q== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: crocking was clothing superstitions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Actually, on the subject of crocking... This year my husband's red wool venetians crocked/bled very badly onto his shirt and stockings during the run of Faire. Not unusual, you might say, red is notorious for not being a stable dye. However, this is the third year these venetians were worn, and neither of us recall any sort of difficulties with them before. The offending dye washed out of the other pieces of clothing without mishap, but I was wondering if anyone else had such an experience and if there is any way to try to "set" the dye into the wool at this point? ******************************************************************* Rebecca Schmitt aka Agness Cabot, Guilde of St. Lawrence Bristol Renaissance Faire My arms are too short to box with God. --Johnny Cash ******************************************************************* _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 09:00:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GD0c2e021613 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GD09tU074551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:00:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GD07Ru023225; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:00:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GD01GZ023161 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:00:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m252.in-tch.com [216.166.191.252]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j8GCrQL13348 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <432AC349.6040306@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:06:17 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: crocking was clothing superstitions References: <4cdj5t$1csga37@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> In-Reply-To: <4cdj5t$1csga37@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What have you been using to wash the red venetians with for the last three years? I'm asking, because I had the same sort of time-delay color run happen to me with an embroidered coif. The background was white linen, and the embroidery on it was done in red silk and gold thread. About the 4th or 5th time it got washed, the red dye suddenly cut loose, and turned the fabric into a mess of mottled pink. This was in the days of "before I knew better," so I'd been using Woolite to hand-wash it. Experts that I consulted said what had probably happened was that the serial washings (in the wrong stuff) had weakened the fiber/dye bonds successively, until they finally cut loose. I thought it was ruined, but several soakings in Biz and a lot of prayer got almost all of it out (there's a *very* faint pink tinge to the linen). Now, I'd wash it in something protein-fiber friendly (shampoo or one of the gentle wool washes or Orvus). There's not much I can do with it to "set" the dye at this point, because of the nature of the embroidered beast , but there might be for your husband's Venetians. Synthrapol, maybe? Or salt? Or vinegar? The first place I'd probably look would be the Dharma Trading website, since they've got so many dyeing products for sale..... --Sue Rebecca Schmitt wrote: > Actually, on the subject of crocking... > > This year my husband's red wool venetians crocked/bled very badly onto his > shirt and stockings during the run of Faire. Not unusual, you might say, red > is notorious for not being a stable dye. However, this is the third year > these venetians were worn, and neither of us recall any sort of difficulties > with them before. The offending dye washed out of the other pieces of > clothing without mishap, but I was wondering if anyone else had such an > experience and if there is any way to try to "set" the dye into the wool at > this point? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 09:04:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GD4kNf021668 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:04:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GD4IWv075313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GD4Hpk025410; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:04:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GD4FLE025348 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A2C80348; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:04:08 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.153 ([209.131.80.153] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 16 Sep 05 13:04:02 -0000 Message-ID: <008901c5babf$9506d520$995083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <13849153.1126640466198.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net><20050914030306.66627.qmail@web53204.mail.yahoo.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050914103331.01ce7988@127.0.0.1><003601c5b93a$0ee41ec0$cbd14fd1@dnyeaqvf><58309.12.34.14.44.1126709866.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net><011001c5b940$548eb010$2ad12b42@denise8541f2db><59703.12.34.14.44.1126719046.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:07:22 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Re too high temp and melt down, When cotton/poly fabric first appeared, I made a very nice fullsleeved shirt for the hero in "Arms and the Man". At dress rehearsal, he climbed through a window, coming in over a table that had a lighted candle on it. Voila, instant melt down which adhered to his arm. End of rehearsal!...and off to the ER. The next evening he appeared with a very realistic battle dressing and the shirt did not get mended 'til way later, (and the candle of course got repositioned). I had lots of fun using all the newest fibers in the 1970's. Some were just great and some were all wrong! Since theater is often all about allusion, and the budget was nil, the fun was in the experimentation to see how close I could come to making the faux fabric look like the real thing. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... Unless you iron garments at too high a temperature, and the fibers melt..... ----- Original Message ----- From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: Historical Costume Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... Denise said, > ahhh...so *that* is why the instructions that come with an iron actually > specify "Do Not Attempt to Iron Garments While Being Worn"! > > Silly me, I thought it was common sense safety... No, not at all, it's complete superstitious nonsense. Elderly relatives will claim it causes huge blisters and worse, but there is no real cause & effect. :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 09:50:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GDoFQ9022249 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:50:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GDnW9L085213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GDnNIh048250; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:49:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GDmrL2048030 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:49:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7C232A0937; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:01:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.66.38.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.66.38]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C01CBA0852 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:01:50 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004801c5bac5$a18e5330$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4cdj5t$1csga37@mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net> <432AC349.6040306@in-tch.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: crocking was clothing superstitions Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:50:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Rebecca Schmitt wrote: >> ...if there is any way to try to "set" the dye into the wool at >> this point? Give it a nice long soak in vinegar; it sets every dye I've tried on protein fibers. In fact, several months ago I overdyed a huge batch of dyed lambskin fur, which had been dyed with a very un-wash-fast dye and which had to be absolutely soaked in dye to get the right color. I dipped each skin in vinegar for about 5 seconds after dyeing it but before rinsing it, and then when I rinsed it the water was clear immediately! (The vinegar smell rinsed out easily.) Most amazing thing I've seen whilst dyeing... test swatches without vinegar never did run clear. -E House (PS--yup, lambskin is generally washable, though it can shrink. Very handy for lining your dresses, though!) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 12:30:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GGUA0u024333 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:30:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GGRmRZ000568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:29:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GG3YWs038155; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:03:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GG3Lla037984 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:03:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7604B17EF9 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:03:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] re: crocking was clothing superstitions Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:03:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <432AC349.6040306@in-tch.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can you take an eyedropper of vinegar and try to set the red silk? -----Original Message----- There's not much I can do with it to "set" the dye at this point, because of the nature of the embroidered beast , _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 12:44:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GGiceA024462 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:44:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GGi3GG001907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:44:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GGhpAZ069101; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:43:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GGhf3S068903 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:43:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.cd.30c34fa9 (16335) for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:37:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:37:20 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/14/2005 7:25:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, aquazoo@patriot.net writes: And I have also advised plenty of people that dry cleaners often have a tailor/seamstress on staff who can replace a broken zipper, etc. Ahhhhh, yes. But if you're on location in a swamp and the lead actors zipper has broken, and the wardrobe trailer is up the hill...and the camera is waiting, it can get amusing...especially if you forgot scissors and have to bite the thread off. Yes, this happened.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 13:27:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GHRisi025060 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:27:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GHRHZ0005944 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:27:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GHRBOe003637; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:27:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GHQwbH003493 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8GHQser003350 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:26:56 -0400 Received: from 12.34.13.205 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53767.12.34.13.205.1126891616.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:26:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> aquazoo@patriot.net writes: >> >> And I have also advised plenty of people that dry cleaners often have >> a tailor/seamstress on staff who can replace a broken zipper, etc. > Albertcat said, > Ahhhhh, yes. But if you're on location in a swamp and the lead actors > zipper has broken, and the wardrobe trailer is up the hill...and the > camera is waiting, it can get amusing...especially if you forgot scissors > and have to bite the thread off. > > Yes, this happened.... The difference is, whether a costume about to go on stage or the camera is running, it's very different from a co-worker asking for a repair. Wardrobe people are in the trenches and do what they must do. The boss situation can be more of a control or harassment of the employee. Repairing burst seams or broken zippers is not in the job description. :-) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 15:47:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GJlOZH027233 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:47:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GJkbAN019020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:46:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GJjTpr007096; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:46:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GGPuXG054759 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:25:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.65.4d9fa919 (16335) for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:20:15 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <65.4d9fa919.305c4abf@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:20:15 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] lacing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/14/2005 6:31:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Joannah@sluggy.net writes: _http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor5.html_ (http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/3flor5.htmlWhat) What a lovely portrait. It looks like the just looped the cord over the cross above each time. And she seems to be wearing a watered silk! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 15:52:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GJqSsG027276 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GJpq96019510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:51:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GJpl4S011953; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:51:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GHbhN5011589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:38:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8GHW5jf007126 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:32:05 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <432B02E2.3050702@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:37:38 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sewing on the body... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Ahhhhh, yes. But if you're on location in a swamp and the lead actors zipper > has broken, and the wardrobe trailer is up the hill...and the camera is > waiting, it can get amusing...especially if you forgot scissors and have to bite > the thread off. Have you considered writing a book? If "The Nanny Diaries" can be a bestseller, your stories should be, also! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 16:11:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GKB3TI027541 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:11:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GK7I30020974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:10:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GJdlwX002902; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:40:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GGHKQd048584 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:17:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1fc.a382f9e (16335) for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:17:01 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1fc.a382f9e.305c49fd@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:17:01 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Clothing superstitions (and theatre) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1083/Fri Sep 16 03:41:30 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/14/2005 6:02:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Just a silly thing - my e-mail provider has queried the use of the phrase "the fairies" as being a rude word - who programmes these things - have they never heard of fairies with wings and wands? Suzi For god's sake! Don't write anything about the "Owl and the Pussycat"! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 16:11:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8GKBGRI027545 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:11:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8GK7I32020974 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:10:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GI51lv031479; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:06:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.phx.gbl (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8GI3o3x030719 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:04:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP08.phx.gbl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:02:24 -0700 Message-ID: <432B08B8.5010709@msn.com> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:02:32 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TheRenaissanceTailor , "h-costume@indra.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2005 18:02:24.0964 (UTC) FILETIME=[CAED1040:01C5BAE8] Cc: Subject: [h-cost] How white should lace be? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We are in the process of redoing the ruff for our "Suitable Gown for Her Majesty" (SGHM) presentation at the Phoenix Art Museum in December. We found some reasonable lace substitution (in form anyway) which is a light ivory. I was wondering what the color range might have been in "white" lace in Elizabethan times. I know some people were dying it yellow and blue (later on?) but I am more interested in the "white to neutral." Also, forgive me if I repeat this question, but were there examples of gold or silver lace on ruffs? Seems I have seen darker colors, but since I don't have great access to color pictures...I wonder what other knew. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 16 21:02:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8H12N6R031842 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:02:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8H11cF9061748 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:01:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8H11XL0096910; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:01:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from taisp2.in-tch.com (taisp2.in-tch.com [199.96.34.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8H11TCS096879 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:01:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mooncat@in-tch.com) Received: from in-tch.com (msla-r1a1m14.in-tch.com [216.166.191.14]) by taisp2.in-tch.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id j8H0suL00871 for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <432B6C63.8030008@in-tch.com> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:07:47 -0600 From: Sue Clemenger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: crocking was clothing superstitions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I hadn't thought of it. Haven't actually used the coif in years, but if I do again, I may just soak it briefly in a vinegar rinse. --Sue otsisto wrote: > Can you take an eyedropper of vinegar and try to set the red silk? > > > -----Original Message----- > There's not much I can do with it to "set" the dye at this point, because > of the nature of the embroidered beast , > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 00:25:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8H4Pexp002144 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8H4PFg5088122 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:25:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8H4PBpq076148; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:25:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail6.tpgi.com.au (mail6.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.113]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8H4P5er076116 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 22:25:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-221-113-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.221.113]) by mail6.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8H4P3FE008096 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:25:05 +1000 Message-ID: <001301c5bb3f$a74e7dc0$71ddf5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:24:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Victorian/Edwardian mesh corsets, has anybody tried to make one? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I was browsing ebay looking for cheap corsets (I've worked out that it's cheaper to buy one of those off the rack satin corsets to rip apart for the steels than to buy the bones by themselves) and I came across this corset from c. 1904 http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Airy-c1904-Ladys-Summer-Corset_W0QQitemZ8334930447QQcategoryZ48865QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://snipurl.com/hqx7) I thought this use of mesh would help with some of the complaints you often hear (e.g. 'corsets are too hot to wear in summer', or 'It's too hot to wear that many layers. I'll bone the bodice instead') and I wondered if anybody had experimented with using mesh as a corset fabric and if so was the experiment successful? Any ideas on what sort of fabrics available today would work for such a reproduction? Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 01:43:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8H5he92003172 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:43:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8H5h7v7093902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:43:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8H5h4RG003046; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:43:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8H5h1wl003008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:43:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8H7Bbso015577 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:11:41 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How white should lace be? Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 01:42:50 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509170142.50968.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 16 September 2005 2:02 pm, WickedFrau wrote: > We are in the process of redoing the ruff for our "Suitable Gown for Her > Majesty" (SGHM) presentation at the Phoenix Art Museum in December. We > found some reasonable lace substitution (in form anyway) which is a > light ivory. I was wondering what the color range might have been in > "white" lace in Elizabethan times. I know some people were dying it > yellow and blue (later on?) but I am more interested in the "white to > neutral." Not "dyeing" it yellow, blue, etc. But using yellow, or blue colored starch preparations to starch them. -- Cathy Raymond "So what if the universe is a pointless mass of hydrogen refuse powered by entropy. I'm spreading ketchup on a rubber duck, and after that I'm going to brush its teeth. So there."-- Rob Landley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 08:33:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8HCXIOo007392 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:33:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8HCWZQm035222 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 06:32:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HCWUOg046126; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 06:32:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HCWSCM046090 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 06:32:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 05:32:22 -0700 Message-ID: <432C0CE0.7050004@msn.com> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 05:32:32 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] How white should lace be? References: <200509170142.50968.cathy@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <200509170142.50968.cathy@thyrsus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Sep 2005 12:32:22.0848 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA5BB400:01C5BB83] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, you are correct...sloppiness on my part. Sg Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >Not "dyeing" it yellow, blue, etc. But using yellow, or blue colored starch >preparations to starch them. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 11:44:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8HFiK20010326 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:44:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8HFhXvE048819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:43:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HFhPBF022479; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:43:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HFhLTZ022449 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:43:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2478b.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.139]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C4F085EE046 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:43:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:43:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] purse embroideries X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi the list, My last note some time back caused a lot of different feelings, and i should not have posted that. No more political notes from me, sorry if i did heart somebody, but i was just conserned about all the poor people hit by the hurricane. Ben buisy with embroidering more ladies purses, and i have 3 finished ones ready to go with me to Stockholm next friday. I go to 18th centurey ball next saturday, and 3 gustavian ladies ordered purses. I love to make these things, and also because they are much quicker to make than costumes. Actually i have serious plans with this, and thoaght i wanted to make much more accessories for reenacters like aprons, stomachers, purses, pockets and the like. Here is a link to the latest purses: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purseembroideries.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 11:50:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8HFo4sm010411 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:50:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8HFneBK049216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:49:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HFnd08025221; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HFnZYX025187 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:49:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-79.sonic.net [209.148.114.79]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HFnYVo007016 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:49:34 -0700 Message-ID: <432C3B11.4040902@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:49:37 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian/Edwardian mesh corsets, has anybody tried to make one? References: <001301c5bb3f$a74e7dc0$71ddf5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <001301c5bb3f$a74e7dc0$71ddf5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not just this corset. I've some across quite a number of references to mesh corsets from the late 1860s (when I was researching _Reconstruction Era Fashions_) through the rest of the 19th century. I haven't tried to make one though. Fran Lavolta Press--Books on historic costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >Hi everyone, >I was browsing ebay looking for cheap corsets (I've worked out that it's >cheaper to buy one of those off the rack satin corsets to rip apart for the >steels than to buy the bones by themselves) and I came across this corset >from c. 1904 >http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Airy-c1904-Ladys-Summer-Corset_W0QQitemZ8334930447QQcategoryZ48865QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem >(http://snipurl.com/hqx7) I thought this use of mesh would help with some of >the complaints you often hear (e.g. 'corsets are too hot to wear in summer', >or 'It's too hot to wear that many layers. I'll bone the bodice instead') >and I wondered if anybody had experimented with using mesh as a corset >fabric and if so was the experiment successful? Any ideas on what sort of >fabrics available today would work for such a reproduction? >Elizabeth > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 13:41:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8HHfel6012243 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:41:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8HHepMf058501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HHedhg074675; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:40:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail2.everyone.net [216.200.145.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HHebW2074652 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from dm20.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A2440464 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:40:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm20 Received: from mailweb14.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm20.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm20.4328688c.2f2d6 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:40:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRDLFUUdxB1ZAIAAAAB,1e29270af89d341bd4c6da162ad49df3 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries X-Originating-Ip: [205.188.116.133] Message-Id: <20050917104036.55DA3594@dm20.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Do you ever get tired of hearing how wonderful your work is? I sure hope not, because it makes me feel good just to look at it. Thanks for sharing! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:43:35 +0200 To: Subject: [h-cost] purse embroideries Hi the list, My last note some time back caused a lot of different feelings, and i should not have posted that. No more political notes from me, sorry if i did heart somebody, but i was just conserned about all the poor people hit by the hurricane. Ben buisy with embroidering more ladies purses, and i have 3 finished ones ready to go with me to Stockholm next friday. I go to 18th centurey ball next saturday, and 3 gustavian ladies ordered purses. I love to make these things, and also because they are much quicker to make than costumes. Actually i have serious plans with this, and thoaght i wanted to make much more accessories for reenacters like aprons, stomachers, purses, pockets and the like. Here is a link to the latest purses: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purseembroideries.htm Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 14:53:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8HIrbZ8014059 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:53:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8HIqteQ065271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 12:52:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HIqpAs006411; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 12:52:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound1.mail.tds.net (outbound1.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.91]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HIqmca006396 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 12:52:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bobd2@tellink.net) Received: from outaamta02.mail.tds.net (outaamta02.mail.tds.net [216.170.230.32]) by outbound1.mail.tds.net (8.13.4/8.12.2) with ESMTP id j8HIqmaD001508 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:52:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: from host ([69.21.248.2]) by outaamta02.mail.tds.net with SMTP id <20050917185247.UEAJ30338.outaamta02.mail.tds.net@host> for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:52:47 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c5bbb8$843e9e40$0400a8c0@domain> From: "bobd2" To: References: <200509171800.j8HI0Gd2083491@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:49:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: purse embroideries X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, these are stunning! Thank you for sharing the pictures. I'm always inspired by your embroidery. I'm sure there's a market for the accessories, and a well made stomacher is an amazing thing. Once again, Thank you for sharing, Bob Dorr--Robert of Stonemarche(SCA) >> > Ben buisy with embroidering more ladies purses, and i have 3 finished ones > ready to go with me to Stockholm next friday. I go to 18th centurey ball > next saturday, and 3 gustavian ladies ordered purses. > I love to make these things, and also because they are much quicker to make > than costumes. Actually i have serious plans with this, and thoaght i wanted > to make much more accessories for reenacters like aprons, stomachers, > purses, pockets and the like. > Here is a link to the latest purses: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purseembroideries.htm > > Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 18:30:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8HMU9W2018396 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 18:30:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8HMTbnA083510 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:29:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HMTXTF003774; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HMTUKP003746 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:29:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=igc.org; b=rUmHp12KQzyuUqCwqMNB2g5KxtDuj94P+2JC6I7YKpX+9YPtceW2Lg16w3AROIy1; h=Received:Mime-Version:X-Sender:Message-Id:In-Reply-To:References:Date:To:From:Subject:Content-Type:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.126.141.253] (helo=[172.16.1.10]) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EGlBZ-0004vq-Pk for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 18:29:30 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: claning@igc.org@pop.igc.org Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <200509170142.50968.cathy@thyrsus.com> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:52:02 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Chris Laning Subject: Re: [h-cost] How white should lace be? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-ELNK-Trace: 295639c8be741617f84080ff3e30f22cfe744c7ca3e510301f4aea2b09b25a1f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.126.141.253 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >Not "dyeing" it yellow, blue, etc. But using yellow, or blue >colored starch preparations to starch them. I attended a fascinating workshop awhile back with someone who's been working with some of these colored period starches -- and she says that using the colored starch does, indeed, permanently color the cloth. My educated guess on how white the lace should be is: as white as you can get it without modern "brighteners" -- the compounds added to modern detergents that reflect ultraviolet light and thus make whites look whiter. I believe that the fashion for "ecru" colored lace (ivory or tan) is a Victorian thing, intended to create an impression of age. There seems to be lots of evidence of Renaissance people expending a good deal of effort to make white linens actually as white as possible with the technology they had. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 19:08:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8HN8X5u018929 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:08:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8HN86RN086357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:08:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HN85FP020010; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:08:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8HN81NK019953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:08:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-1.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8HNPUbP023854 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 18:25:31 -0500 Message-ID: <432CA1F1.30704@wideopenwest.com> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:08:33 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries References: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Beautiful, Bjarne! I love your work. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 17 23:48:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8I3mDec022394 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:48:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8I3lRNN017239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:47:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8I3lO5I031269; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:47:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8I3lK7g031250 for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:47:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 11986 invoked from network); 17 Sep 2005 20:47:17 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 11826, pid: 11855, t: 4.4006s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1070 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 17 Sep 2005 20:47:13 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050917204307.02589bc0@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 20:47:06 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries In-Reply-To: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:43 AM 9/17/2005, you wrote: >Hi the list, >My last note some time back caused a lot of different feelings, and >i should not have posted that. No more political notes from me, >sorry if i did heart somebody, but i was just conserned about all >the poor people hit by the hurricane. >Ben buisy with embroidering more ladies purses, and i have 3 >finished ones ready to go with me to Stockholm next friday. I go to >18th centurey ball next saturday, and 3 gustavian ladies ordered purses. >I love to make these things, and also because they are much quicker >to make than costumes. Actually i have serious plans with this, and >thoaght i wanted to make much more accessories for reenacters like >aprons, stomachers, purses, pockets and the like. >Here is a link to the latest purses: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purseembroideries.htm > >Bjarne Your purses are lovely. And I think that your idea of making accessories is a good one. I think it's a shame when someone in a lovely outfit shows up with really out-of-period accessories (or cheap imports that are almost, but not quite, correct) and ruins the look. And thank you for posting pictures of your work. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 08:15:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ICFi6W009271 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:15:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ICF7uC073697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 06:15:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ICExGO018396; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 06:14:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ICEtHi018331 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 06:14:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AA38014C; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:14:48 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.151 ([209.131.80.151] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 18 Sep 05 12:14:43 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c5bc4b$06ab8400$975083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:18:04 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The purses are Loverly! Did you just gather the bottom, or are the gathers set on a smaller circle? Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 11:43 AM Subject: [h-cost] purse embroideries > Hi the list, > My last note some time back caused a lot of different feelings, and i should > not have posted that. No more political notes from me, sorry if i did heart > somebody, but i was just conserned about all the poor people hit by the > hurricane. > Ben buisy with embroidering more ladies purses, and i have 3 finished ones > ready to go with me to Stockholm next friday. I go to 18th centurey ball > next saturday, and 3 gustavian ladies ordered purses. > I love to make these things, and also because they are much quicker to make > than costumes. Actually i have serious plans with this, and thoaght i wanted > to make much more accessories for reenacters like aprons, stomachers, > purses, pockets and the like. > Here is a link to the latest purses: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purseembroideries.htm > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 09:43:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8IDhRii010508 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:43:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8IDgds3079647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:42:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IDgb7v051133; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:42:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.168]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8IDgYNM051036 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 07:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 26377 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Sep 2005 13:42:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=LPCgtaG4d8S3jENMp+o6DuhoqGGrzzIqGW96uaYRfwGfACVxj2x6bfl1PRt0fuqxZy6qqC0I8E/mtaqzZp1MXKQy/xNrBgf/69F9elb9D+bnFq4Zc9jMv+2xhrCOgq8ZartliHKwwHSwd6B/JjzpULfpi3qb2Pp8mMP1iWggxdg= ; Message-ID: <20050918134228.26375.qmail@web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.69.139.147] by web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 06:42:28 PDT Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 06:42:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <001301c5bc4b$06ab8400$975083d1@rmitchellras> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So beautiful Bjarne!!! Thank you SOmuch for sharing and as always, the inspiration to create. Chris G. : "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 11:43 AM Subject: [h-cost] purse embroideries > I love to make these things, and also because they are much quicker to make > than costumes. Actually i have serious plans with this, and thoaght i wanted > to make much more accessories for reenacters like aprons, stomachers, > purses, pockets and the like. > Here is a link to the latest purses: > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/purseembroideries.htm > > Bjarne --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 10:53:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8IErJSv011555 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 10:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8IEqXJF084809 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:52:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IEqT2Y078101; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:52:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IEqPJw078076 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:52:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a2477a.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.122]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 543F15EE018 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:52:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004701c5bc60$95a50770$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001301c5bc4b$06ab8400$975083d1@rmitchellras> Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:52:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries > The purses are Loverly! Did you just gather the bottom, or are the > gathers > set on a smaller circle? > > Kathleen Hi Kathleen, I have cartridge pleated the bottom and then i have sewed all the pleats together like a star. You are right that some have a little covered cirkle in the bottom, and i still have a lot to learn in making them like the old ones. I have found a book on Amazon com that has some examples and i want that book. Also i have to find out how to make renaissance purses two, because i want to make Elizabethan two. Thanks for all your positive feed backs, i always feels good when people like what i do. I also got a permission order to make a belt pouch from late 1500 with a family crest with 3 lions in silver, this is something i will start to make after the dress i make has finished. Does anyone have any links to late 1500 belt pouches? I would like to see some examples........... Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 11:13:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8IFDBTF011789 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 11:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8IFBXoS086534 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:11:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IFBWca086122; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:11:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IFBRVP086056 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:11:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8IF5ijf020213 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 11:05:45 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 11:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <432D839A.3000003@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 11:11:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries, 1500s References: <001701c5bb9e$9265f730$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <001301c5bc4b$06ab8400$975083d1@rmitchellras> <004701c5bc60$95a50770$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <004701c5bc60$95a50770$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I also got a permission order to make a belt pouch from late 1500 with a > family crest with 3 lions in silver, this is something i will start to > make after the dress i make has finished. > Does anyone have any links to late 1500 belt pouches? There's some 1400 ones in Boucher, but that's too early. You might want to look at the museum they're in though; who knows, they might be part of a purse collection. I've got a picture near the bottom of http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html and my notes say "New York Metropolitan Museum" which I expect means the Met, these days. The Met has a lot of images online in their image bank. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent To his credit, President Bush did respond quickly and he did send troops as son as he found out that Louisiana had oil. -- Jay Leno _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 14:46:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8IIkSpD014739 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:46:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8IIjs3v005314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:45:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IIjk8m078178; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:45:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web50614.mail.yahoo.com (web50614.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.114]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8IIjbgm078026 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:45:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 1807 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Sep 2005 18:45:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CtAs/9htozSzp+3HIQ1s45ie3GamV/JKjvYXwWEtbcR2OztYyfpYoEdeYa8Yq72pd5dxKiyqESbC9y1JnowGY3YcqR2Ci0orD12yzF5K2TnvmA6PfJu8kAG6ezj3QLqL0KjFZcLoFnjD6aG89uAL99EtjrZAmGJHdzXvS50oqJ4= ; Message-ID: <20050918184532.1805.qmail@web50614.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50614.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:45:32 EDT Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:45:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: Historical Costume List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Two-toned Silk Velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings once again, Has anyone ever purchased some of this velvet? I have found it at http://www.minidolls.com/silk.shtml and it answers all my needs for a project I have had in mind for a while. Said project is based on the "Portrait of Soldier" (Giovanni Moroni, c1557, Museo del Prado , Madrid http://www.wga.hu/art/m/moroni/port_sol.jpg) painting. I had brought this painting up in a discussion a short while ago. I had always envisioned the doublet in changeable velvet, and now I have found it. problem is, I have no evidence that this variety of velvet existed at the time of this painting. I would hazard it did; cut velvets with contrasting patterns suggest it was woven in this way - I would *really* like to see an extant scrap from somewhere in Europe that said yes, they did it. Has anyone seen anything like this anywhere? I've already ordered a yard of it in order to mess around with it a bit and see what I can pull out of my hat in terms of creative use. Im going to check my discharge acid directions to see if I could use that to make cut velvet jaquard from this stuff. Otherwise, it's hand cutting - eep! Kathy It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot English is essentially Pictish that was attacked out of nowhere by Angles cohabiting with Teutons who were done in by a drunk bunch of Vikings masquerading as Frenchmen who insisted they spoke Latin and Greek but lacked the Arabic in which to convey that. -Bill Hammel __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 15:30:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8IJUvxQ015449 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:30:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8IJUXqH009129 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:30:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IJUVxD097462; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:30:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IJUTn8097444 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:30:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7CF0117E80 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:30:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] purse embroideries, 1500s Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:30:30 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <432D839A.3000003@thibault.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Note: there is a slight variance in style depending on the country it is from and whether it is early or late 1500s. Portraits and prints of the period are the only thing I can think of right now. I know I've seen online extent purses of the period but my brain isn't work real well due to illness. De -----Original Message----- Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > I also got a permission order to make a belt pouch from late 1500 with a > family crest with 3 lions in silver, this is something i will start to > make after the dress i make has finished. > Does anyone have any links to late 1500 belt pouches? There's some 1400 ones in Boucher, but that's too early. You might want to look at the museum they're in though; who knows, they might be part of a purse collection. I've got a picture near the bottom of http://www.virtue.to/articles/extant.html and my notes say "New York Metropolitan Museum" which I expect means the Met, these days. The Met has a lot of images online in their image bank. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 15:59:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8IJx5T3015888 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:59:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8IJwajs011466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IJwYGw009038; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:58:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8IJwUTi009014 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 13:58:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5508.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.8]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5298C5EE05C for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:58:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002501c5bc8b$62674be0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:58:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] purses X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I am most ashamed. I think i have made a big mistake here. There is not talk about late 16.th century style of pouches but late 1400. I am so sorry about this, Late 15th century burgundian style. Bjarne who has duck'ed and covered......... Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 17:46:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ILkC8F017427 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:46:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ILjXTK020404 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:45:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ILjV1L052514; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:45:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ILjR3D052487 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:45:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-205-115.cvip.net [129.8.205.115]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F24165B3 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:45:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050918144143.036e6158@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:45:25 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Two-toned Silk Velvet In-Reply-To: <20050918184532.1805.qmail@web50614.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050918184532.1805.qmail@web50614.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:45 AM 9/18/2005, you wrote: >I had always envisioned >the doublet in changeable velvet, and now I have found >it. problem is, I have no evidence that this variety >of velvet existed at the time of this painting. I >would hazard it did; cut velvets with contrasting >patterns suggest it was woven in this way - I would >*really* like to see an extant scrap from somewhere in >Europe that said yes, they did it. Has anyone seen >anything like this anywhere? From Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, pg 362. "Changeable, Chaungeable: Obsolete term for shot silk, usually taffeta; the warp and weft of different colors change the appearance of the silk, giving an iridescent effect: mockado, p. 105; S, f.53v/114, f.69/63" Definitely available then in my book. I love how it looks in the sun, and have often wanted some myself in velvet, although I am currently smitten by a lovely Burgundy/Black changeable taffeta that I recently bought, and will be making into a pleated tall hat. Kimiko Kimiko Small ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, safety first instead of duty first, a love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life. This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live unless it is a good place for all of us to live." ~ Teddy Roosevelt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 18 19:22:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8INMV5P018696 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:22:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8INLr6q028229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:21:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8INLoEX091298; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:21:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8INLlfD091231 for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:21:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from randl@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net ([69.169.181.2]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.01 201-2131-118-101-20041129) with ESMTP id <20050918232137.OEJF24716.mta9.adelphia.net@adelphia.net> for ; Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:21:37 -0400 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:21:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] purse embroideries Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: randl@adelphia.net To: h-costume@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200509181800.j8II0In2056500@net.indra.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Museum of Bags and Purses: http://www.museumofbagsandpurses.com/eng_collection.html Amazon link to a book (couldn't find on Amazon UK, sorry): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0713437723/ qid=1103676887/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/102-2512588-2239316?v=glance&s=books V&A search engine: http://images.vam.ac.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?_IXSESSION_=&submit- button=search&search-form=main/index.html Plug in "purse" and it comes back with some great images. Hope it helps! Laurie On Sunday, September 18, 2005, at 02:00 PM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > > Hi Kathleen, > I have cartridge pleated the bottom and then i have sewed all the > pleats > together like a star. > You are right that some have a little covered cirkle in the bottom, > and i > still have a lot to learn in making them like the old ones. I have > found a > book on Amazon com that has some examples and i want that book. > Also i have to find out how to make renaissance purses two, because i > want > to make Elizabethan two. > Thanks for all your positive feed backs, i always feels good when > people > like what i do. > I also got a permission order to make a belt pouch from late 1500 with > a > family crest with 3 lions in silver, this is something i will start to > make > after the dress i make has finished. > Does anyone have any links to late 1500 belt pouches? > I would like to see some examples........... > > Bjarne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 09:31:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JDVw0K026015 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:31:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JDVBcs010361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:31:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JDV4lt039519; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:31:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JDV07a039438 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:31:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8JDUsY12092.; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:30:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:30:54 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:30:48 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] How white should lace be? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1084/Fri Sep 16 21:32:40 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8JDV07a039438 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I made a linen apron last week and trimmed it with a remnant of the simple lace that I had used on my coif and neckerchief. Wearing them together on Sunday, I noticed that the lace on the apron was ecru but that on the older garments had faded to white with repeated washing. I've never bothered about not washing with modern detergents on the grounds that, as Chris says, people in "my" period would have wanted their linen as white as possible. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> claning@igc.org 17/09/2005 19:52 >>> wrote: My educated guess on how white the lace should be is: as white as you can get it without modern "brighteners" -- the compounds added to modern detergents that reflect ultraviolet light and thus make whites look whiter. I believe that the fashion for "ecru" colored lace (ivory or tan) is a Victorian thing, intended to create an impression of age. There seems to be lots of evidence of Renaissance people expending a good deal of effort to make white linens actually as white as possible with the technology they had. -- ____________________________________________________________ O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 14:31:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JIVs7a030384 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JIVFgp051342 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:31:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JIUthY071430; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:30:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f35.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JIUoMO071258 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:30:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:30:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:30:41 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509191812.j8JI7VX2052657@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:30:41 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Sep 2005 18:30:41.0884 (UTC) FILETIME=[3D9BC1C0:01C5BD48] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Odd Jerkin question... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Recently while digging through the old _Catalogue of the Collection of London Antiquities in the Guildhall Museum._ London. 1908, I found pictures of several scraps of leather Jerkins (It looks like there are pieces from at least three jerkins). Has anyone ever published anything on these? I can't find anything in the stuff I have available, but I don't have any indexes to most of the costuming journals. The catalog doesn't have much information - what there is I've extracted to here: http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/histshoe/guildhallcat/index.htm Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 14:51:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JIpCpl030661 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:51:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JInvLn053870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:49:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JInkoX086018; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JInHF2085667 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:49:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Kiloran@worldnet.att.net) Received: from sharplaptop.worldnet.att.net (d15-210.rb.gh.centurytel.net[69.29.206.210]) by worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2005091918491111100j87nme>; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:49:11 +0000 Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.0.14 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:48:58 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] making a fan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called ribs, I think. I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a couple of other combinations without any luck. Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very grateful. Thanks, Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 14:53:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JIrNQB030701 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:53:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JIquP4054198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:52:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JIqqei088253; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:52:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JIqlO7088129 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:52:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.19b.3c97a760 (3956) for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <19b.3c97a760.306062f7@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:52:39 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd Jerkin question... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/19/2005 2:36:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, marccarlson20@hotmail.com writes: I found pictures of several scraps of leather Jerkins Interesting. Well, there's no doubt on how to cut the pattern. But how do they know they're Jerkins and not Doublets? That's what I Anna know.... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 14:53:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JIrW5q030705 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:53:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JIrBNN054308 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JIrAC9088499; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:53:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qproxy.gmail.com (qproxy.gmail.com [72.14.204.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JIoAJN086286 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:50:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by qproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u24so143129qbh for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:49:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=m/susAu1xGxIRPi46H3+kb9e7dIXynr19zaGG2w6kniyOTPRnKBeWTct1Ft7aWtSfeCG+MGQHJL5Igr7WkvYm0TYMcZZAJDgxlSOfrmvxHR/Tn13MxsM3ovZcRgvYUqfsia8wOWe3pnjqgMsAt6WG6/wHL9i56+wCHppNHfg2Gs= Received: by 10.64.210.6 with SMTP id i6mr48484qbg; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.40.14 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc266050919114991c45f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:49:31 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd Jerkin question... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200509191812.j8JI7VX2052657@net.indra.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8JIoAJN086286 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lovely find, Marc. I don't recall anything off the top... but I'll certainly keep it in mind. Mari / Bridgette On 9/19/05, Marc Carlson wrote: > Recently while digging through the old _Catalogue of the Collection of > London Antiquities in the Guildhall Museum._ London. 1908, I found pictures > of several scraps of leather Jerkins (It looks like there are pieces from at > least three jerkins). Has anyone ever published anything on these? I can't > find anything in the stuff I have available, but I don't have any indexes to > most of the costuming journals. > > The catalog doesn't have much information - what there is I've extracted to > here: > http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/histshoe/guildhallcat/index.htm > > Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 15:06:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JJ6fgS030959 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JJ5heG056369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:05:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJ5deN098172; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:05:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sm4app01.siteprotect.com (sm4app01.siteprotect.com [64.41.126.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJ5W5t098051 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:05:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cschmitt@genteelarts.com) Received: from sm4app01.siteprotect.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sm4app01.siteprotect.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686D1F9A0 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:05:30 -0500 (CDT) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: Historical Costume Subject: =?US-ASCII?B?UmU6IFtoLWNvc3RdIG1ha2luZyBhIGZhbg==?= X-Origin: 65.164.18.144 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:05:30 -0500 X-Uidl: 6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: AtMail 5.1.2 Message-Id: <20050919190530.686D1F9A0@sm4app01.siteprotect.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8JJ5W5t098051 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I held a class on making a mid-19th century fan last year. We used original fans that had their covers destroyed. A friend and I picked them up at flea markets and antique sales for a few dollars each; sometimes we paid less than a dollar. In several instances we were able to salvage original metal spangles for reuse. I also found some good sticks at oriental gift shops; we just removed the modern paper or imitation silk covers. Carolann Schmitt cschmitt@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies & Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 2 -5, 2006 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 15:07:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JJ79iN030967 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:07:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JJ5hMs056368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:05:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJ5WAZ098047; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8JJ5LMa097892 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:05:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 37373 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2005 19:05:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2005 19:05:13 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050919200343.01d33318@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:05:17 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.at t.net> References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 19:48 19/09/2005, you wrote: >I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to >renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not >even sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called >ribs, I think. I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a >couple of other combinations without any luck. > >Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And >if anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd >be very grateful. I thought they were called "sticks". Try contacting the Fan Museum in Greenwich - they may be able to help. http://www.fan-museum.org/ Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 15:09:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JJ9cki031005 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:09:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JJ9IwB056915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:09:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJ9BNf000949; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:09:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJ7ofh099805 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:08:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x503f5556.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.63.85.86]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 7266F5EE054 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:07:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c5bd4d$7e88e780$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:08:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1088/Mon Sep 19 11:31:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Hi, They are called fan sticks. Try to search for it at lace materials dealers. Lacis have some made of bamboo for 30 dollars. Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:48 PM Subject: [h-cost] making a fan >I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to >renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even >sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called ribs, I think. >I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a couple of other >combinations without any luck. > > Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if > anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very > grateful. > > Thanks, > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 15:20:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JJKUVw031191 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:20:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JJIa75058275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:18:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJIXpp008210; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:18:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJINXL008086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-131.sonic.net [209.148.113.131]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JJILU2029296 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:18:22 -0700 Message-ID: <432F0F02.20302@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:18:26 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1088/Mon Sep 19 11:31:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1088/Mon Sep 19 11:31:21 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You could search eBay for antique fans in poor condition and recover them. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Kiloran@worldnet.att.net wrote: > > Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if > anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be > very grateful. > > Thanks, > Julie > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 17:08:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JL8MLO032509 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:08:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JL7j11074962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:07:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JL7bfa097021; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:07:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web50602.mail.yahoo.com (web50602.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8JL7UeX096876 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:07:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 69208 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Sep 2005 21:07:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=tkPt9dCVkAup7Au7yHB0wj1ibop0U/HUSDsYwaxICVew2D/gPWVcHN4RAmJQ3MYBsY1aMvjbTitmnbiCkBUTzOcfBCv5o+jO4HnT+dOPPkEQ/kFFY11JscjPqApngLNQJSm3MqzRONrn2oLhLQBupvNK/DiHf5rx+E39qR3yrLs= ; Message-ID: <20050919210725.69206.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:07:24 EDT Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:07:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509191808.j8JI7VX0052657@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Two-toned Silk Velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for the look up Kimiko. Upon doing some more research on this fabric I have come to find it's referred to at least modernly, as Nacre Velvet, occasionally as cross weave or cross dye. In this case, the ground yarns, often a twill or tabby weave, or if very luxurious, a satin weave, is a different colour from the pile yarns. When the velvet moves and the pile opens up, the ground weave shows through giving a pearlescent appearance thus the reference to the nacre layers of a pearl. I can't find any history on this whatsoever. I know that shot fabrics existed, but this is a slightly different kettle of fish. Given those references, does it ring any more bells? Kathy > From Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, pg 362. > "Changeable, Chaungeable: Obsolete term for shot > silk, usually taffeta; the > warp and weft of different colors change the > appearance of the silk, giving > an iridescent effect: mockado, p. 105; S, f.53v/114, > f.69/63" It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot English is essentially Pictish that was attacked out of nowhere by Angles cohabiting with Teutons who were done in by a drunk bunch of Vikings masquerading as Frenchmen who insisted they spoke Latin and Greek but lacked the Arabic in which to convey that. -Bill Hammel __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 17:09:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JL9v3h032532 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:09:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JL9ZWa075265 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JL9Zqt098510; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net (sccrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.202.56]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JL9VE8098361 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:09:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.205.172 ([204.127.205.172]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005091921092501200r0o85e>; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:09:25 +0000 Received: from [12.148.252.66] by 204.127.205.172; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:09:24 +0000 From: lauren.walker@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:09:24 +0000 Message-Id: <091920052109.3760.432F2904000455BF00000EB022007504389D0A05040E99D2020A9D9A0E04@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: bGF1cmVuLndhbGtlckBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dharma Trading http://www.dharmatrading.com has plain white silk fans on bamboo frames: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1669-AA.shtml for $4.95 You could either embellish the silk or cover it, or probably remove and replace it. They also carry white silk paddle fans: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1539963-AA.shtml but a) they are out of stock and b) I don't think the paddles are period for 18th/19th century. Good luck with your project. Lauren > I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to > renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even > sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called ribs, I think. > I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a couple of other > combinations without any luck. > > Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if > anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very > grateful. > > Thanks, > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 17:15:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JLF82M032616 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:15:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JLEiFt075943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:14:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JLEgTq002434; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:14:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [63.240.76.21]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JLEZji002333 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:14:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rampant_peacock@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.205.142 (smailcenter67.comcast.net[204.127.205.167]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005091921142901100pbvv3e>; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:14:29 +0000 Received: from [198.91.8.9] by 204.127.205.142; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:14:29 +0000 From: rampant_peacock@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:14:29 +0000 Message-Id: <091920052114.11027.432F2A3500047B4200002B132207021573050C010C0E0A9FA19B020E9F030E9D@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: cmFtcGFudF9wZWFjb2NrQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I picked up the sticks for the fan I'm making at: www.displaycostume.com the company is here in Seattle but they do website orders and will ship. Good Luck Molly -------------- Original message -------------- > I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to > renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even > sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called ribs, I think. > I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a couple of other > combinations without any luck. > > Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if > anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very > grateful. > > Thanks, > Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 18:36:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8JMa2Xt001167 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:36:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8JMYQtt088582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:35:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8JMFX86048065; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:15:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8JMFR7d047968 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:15:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 5062 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2005 15:15:17 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 4853, pid: 4896, t: 11.0103s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1070 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 19 Sep 2005 15:15:06 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050919151427.0257ee30@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:15:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan In-Reply-To: <091920052114.11027.432F2A3500047B4200002B132207021573050C0 10C0E0A9FA19B020E9F030E9D@comcast.net> References: <091920052114.11027.432F2A3500047B4200002B132207021573050C010C0E0A9FA19B020E9F030E9D@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1089/Mon Sep 19 14:29:04 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Did you get the maribou fan? That's the only folding fan I found on the web site. Joan At 02:14 PM 9/19/2005, you wrote: >I picked up the sticks for the fan I'm making at: >www.displaycostume.com >the company is here in Seattle but they do website orders and will ship. >Good Luck >Molly >-------------- Original message -------------- > > > I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to > > renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even > > sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called > ribs, I think. > > I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a couple of other > > combinations without any luck. > > > > Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if > > anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very > > grateful. > > > > Thanks, > > Julie >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 20:34:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K0YAV0002758 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:34:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K0XZVK003389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:33:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K0XULZ035922; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:33:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31511.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31511.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8K0XRdD035822 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:33:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bella_lucia_da_verona@yahoo.com.au) Received: (qmail 90259 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Sep 2005 00:33:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com.au; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=oBn5JKQGGEQ6QumcOdV2k+Gw3nGWnNQpNFPoU15ssZdu3u/ICUNrrnbFL1eVqDOOfQ65rF1wp3SOn0dq/7r10Qkc+BX3ZOhdNT+8REf0h4svzi0DKLVzlkYN5YJIBZF021DM0w6ymP+aXwGzNV0/Dao9eI/l+nDqmf0Iddm41YM= ; Message-ID: <20050920003321.90257.qmail@web31511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.173.204.250] by web31511.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:33:21 EST Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:33:21 +1000 (EST) From: Bella Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Two-toned Silk Velvet To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050919210725.69206.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kathy, the closest I could find to a 'changeable' velvet in history is something called chameleon velvet: "This is a velvet with an iridescent effect: the pile appears to be of two different colours, depending on the angle from which one looks at it. Of course, the manufacture makes use of two different pile warps in different colours and a special system of weaving. This was in fashion for men's and women's clothing from 1842 until 1846." (Orsi Landini, R. and Redaelli, A. "Techniques and Types of Velvet" in Velvet: History Techniques Fashions, p 191. Ed Fabrizio de Marinis. Idea Books, NY 1994 Eng. Version) Bella Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 22:03:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K23en9004044 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:03:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K22t7U012934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K22om1081817; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:02:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao03.cox.net (eastrmmtao03.cox.net [68.230.240.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K22ldJ081738 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mischele1@cox.net) Received: from Mischele ([68.1.69.192]) by eastrmmtao03.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20050920020238.FTOH28643.eastrmmtao03.cox.net@Mischele> for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:02:38 -0400 Message-ID: <00cc01c5bd87$5587b980$c0450144@Mischele> From: "mischele1" To: Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:02:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Bridal lace on the cheap? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8K23en9004044 Status: RO Greetings to the list, I am a lurker but I find I am in need of some input for much more informed minds then mine. A local young lady has asked me to help her make 7 bridesmaids dresses, no problem. But she want dusty rose lace overlays on the dresses. Where can I find such a creature that doesnt cost an arm and a leg? She would prefer more of an open lace like an embroidered tulle or something that doesnt 'have all of the flowers crammed together'. I think she is looking in the range of $10. yard or less. Does anyone have any idea where I can find anything close to this? Thanks for your time, Lyonet who generally does dresses from the 15+16 century not the 21st. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 22:36:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K2aGAB004482 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:36:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K2Zc9D016096 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K2Za0D097910; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:35:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K2ZX2q097857 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:35:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.6.4da0252f (24895) for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:35:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <6.4da0252f.3060cf67@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:35:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/19/2005 5:17:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rampant_peacock@comcast.net writes: www.displaycostume.com I love the "Crime Family" on the home page. Is that a political commentary???? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 23:23:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K3NKwW005145 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:23:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K3Mexu020997 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:22:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K3Mbpi020397; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:22:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from orion.dandy.net (orion.dandy.net [209.128.224.36]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K3MX4Q020354 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:22:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mikes@dandy.net) Received: from [209.128.248.15] (acty3015.dialup.dandy.net [209.128.248.15]) by orion.dandy.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742B25C08E for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <432F8073.9080309@dandy.net> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:22:27 -0400 From: michael tartaglio User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd Jerkin question... References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Marc. I believe the Guildhall Museum collection was incorporated into that of the City Museum (Museum of London). If that is the case, the leather jerkin that they currently have on display might be part of the same finds or possibly incorporated from the pieces you show. I would send a note to the Curator or Collections Manager (I can't remember her name, but she is very helpful with such things) to find out. Perhaps after they acquired a complete jerkin they took the pieces off exhibit. Of course, the pics come from 1908, so they might have been lost in the Blitz. I think the old Guildhall Museum was only a few blocks from the river and the docks. Sorry I don't know more. Mike T. > . Has anyone ever published anything on these? I can't find anything > in the stuff I have available, but I don't have any indexes to most of > the costuming journals. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 19 23:47:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K3lcPi005533 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:47:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K3l8hm023502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:47:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K3l4UH032236; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:47:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.27] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K3l1D1032188 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:47:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:46:56 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 03:46:55 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509200329.j8K3QvZp022384@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:46:55 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Sep 2005 03:46:56.0186 (UTC) FILETIME=[F23E19A0:01C5BD95] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Odd Jerkin question... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: michael tartaglio >Hi, Marc. I believe the Guildhall Museum collection was incorporated >into that of the City Museum (Museum of London). If that is the case, >the leather jerkin that they currently have on display might be part of >the same finds or possibly incorporated from the pieces you show. I >would send a note to the Curator or Collections Manager (I can't >remember her name, but she is very helpful with such things) to find >out. Perhaps after they acquired a complete jerkin they took the pieces >off exhibit. Of course, the pics come from 1908, so they might have been >lost in the Blitz. I think the old Guildhall Museum was only a few >blocks from the river and the docks. Sorry I don't know more. Mike T. I believe you are right about the merging of the museums (in 1973?). If you wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate it. I wouldn't be surprised if the pieces didn't survive the Blitz, although I've been corresponding with the various museums about their old shoes, and a lot of those do seem to have survived (although some of them don't seem to be in the same condition they were a century ago). Thank you. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 01:41:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K5f98c007345 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:41:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K5e7VX033436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:40:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K5e2MB080748; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:40:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K5dwLc080687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:40:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0454.floodcity.net ([198.93.212.200]:1424 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1EHarE-00081w-Oq for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:39:57 -0400 Message-ID: <432FA0A9.1030607@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:39:53 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bridal lace on the cheap? References: <00cc01c5bd87$5587b980$c0450144@Mischele> In-Reply-To: <00cc01c5bd87$5587b980$c0450144@Mischele> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO mischele1 wrote: > Greetings to the list, > > I am a lurker but I find I am in need of some input for much more informed minds then mine. > > A local young lady has asked me to help her make 7 bridesmaids dresses, no problem. But she want dusty rose lace overlays on the dresses. > Where can I find such a creature that doesnt cost an arm and a leg? She would prefer more of an open lace like an embroidered tulle or something that doesnt 'have all of the flowers crammed together'. I think she is looking in the range of $10. yard or less. > > Does anyone have any idea where I can find anything close to this? ebay, I bought seven yards and 12 yards, less than two dollars a yard. depending on width, and desireability. KItty type in Bridal lace _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 02:00:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K605xt007681 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:00:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K5xeXZ035379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:59:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K5xdVP088610; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:59:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8K5xYc0088562 for ; Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:59:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 76437 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2005 05:59:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2005 05:59:28 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050920065134.01d33fb0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:58:06 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Odd Jerkin question... In-Reply-To: <432F8073.9080309@dandy.net> References: <432F8073.9080309@dandy.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:22 20/09/2005, you wrote: >Hi, Marc. I believe the Guildhall Museum collection was incorporated >into that of the City Museum (Museum of London). If that is the >case, the leather jerkin that they currently have on display might >be part of the same finds or possibly incorporated from the pieces >you show. I would send a note to the Curator or Collections Manager >(I can't remember her name, but she is very helpful with such >things) to find out. Perhaps after they acquired a complete jerkin >they took the pieces off exhibit. Of course, the pics come from >1908, so they might have been lost in the Blitz. I think the old >Guildhall Museum was only a few blocks from the river and the docks. >Sorry I don't know more. Mike T. > > >>. Has anyone ever published anything on these? I can't find >>anything in the stuff I have available, but I don't have any >>indexes to most of the costuming journals. The leather jerkin that is usually on display is currently in store as there is a new medieval gallery (400AD - 1558AD) opening in late October or early November. I do not believe that this leather jerkin has been put together from fragments, but was a whole jerkin, although the fabric is similar. It seems too complete to have been so assembled. The lady who I have been talking with is Meriel Jeater - who is the Deputy Curator, Department of Early London History and Collections. I should war you they are *very* busy right now! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 02:51:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K6pQGd020325 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K6ouMi042064 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:50:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K6osIJ010970; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:50:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.166.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K6oo7L010943 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:50:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dannw@mn.rr.com) Received: from NunnWeinberg1.mn.rr.com (CPE-70-92-179-21.mn.res.rr.com [70.92.179.21]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-kc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id j8K6olZ8013567 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:50:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 01:47:10 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.at t.net> References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, I did a quick search on fan sticks and came up with: http://lace.lacefairy.com/Fans/Fansticks.html It has a section: Sources of Fansticks Springetts - sales@springetts.com Ann Keller- http://www.annkeller.com/ Malcolm Cox-FANSTICKS - http://www.connect.ie/users/mcox/ Aebi's Woodworking (Lafayette IN) johnaebi@msn.com I've searched for them myself in the past and only found them in connection with lace making. Good luck. Cheers, Danielle At 01:48 PM 9/19/2005, you wrote: >I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to >renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not >even sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called >ribs, I think. I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a >couple of other combinations without any luck. > >Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And >if anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd >be very grateful. > >Thanks, >Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 04:52:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8K8qlel015717 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:52:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8K8q4WJ051845 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:52:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8K8q0Q5053752; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:52:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8K8ptfu053691 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 49210 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2005 08:51:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp814.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2005 08:51:50 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:51:55 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is made by Channel 4 for British TV but will no doubt make its way elsewhere. Helen Mirren plays Elizabeth in the years after the Armada to her death, and the advisor was the historian David Starkey. After praising its authenticity in an article in the "Radio Times" a tv listings magazine, he then proceeds to list at least 5 anomalies. I quote "David Starkey explains why, sometimes, artistic licence is better for drama than authenticity." (Says who?) The interest for us will no doubt be the costumes. Well, I'm getting my b*tch in first. Helen Mirren is posing with Jeremy Irons (great so far) in a gown that has seams which curve into the armhole. And the underskirt is an embroidered dupion which is extraordinarily like 18th century flower embroidery. (I used it for my 18th century bride recently.) The braid is a braid I buy in a local shop, and would never have considered for Elizabeth - far too plain. There is a "collar of glass jewels and pheasant feathers in which Helen Mirren gives Queen Elizabeth's Armada speech". I will no doubt watch, as I adore Jeremy Irons, but I don't anticipate much joy from the costumes. I spend a lot of time working to get things looking as near accurate as I can for my customers, but really, sometimes I wonder why I bother. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 07:13:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KBDkm4013395 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:13:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KBDFjk062431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KBDCM6009791; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:13:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (ms-smtp-03-smtplb.ohiordc.rr.com [65.24.5.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KBD82O009742 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:13:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sapphireandsage@neo.rr.com) Received: from lolizerg (cpe-65-25-51-114.neo.res.rr.com [65.25.51.114]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.ohiordc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j8KBD5YF016360 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:13:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001201c5bdd4$978b6aa0$0200a8c0@lolizerg> From: "Sapphire And Sage" To: References: <200509200329.j8K3QvZp022384@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:15:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] making a fan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, Julie! :) I carry bamboo fan frames on my website: http://sapphireandsage.com/alacarte.html They're at the very bottom of the page. If you have any questions, just ask! :) ~Rhonda Sapphire & Sage - Renaissance Jewelry & Accessories ((¸¸.·' ...·' -:¦:- www.sapphireandsage.com -:¦:- ((¸¸..·'* For website updates and special offers, subscribe to the Sapphire & Sage Newsletter: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sapphireandsage/ ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:48:58 -0700 > From: Kiloran@worldnet.att.net > Subject: [h-cost] making a fan > I want to try making a fan. (snip) > Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if > anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very > grateful. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 07:32:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KBWc99013621 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:32:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KBWJgY063679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:32:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KBWHer017339; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:32:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web50610.mail.yahoo.com (web50610.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.249]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8KBWFbi017284 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from caitlin_oduibhir@yahoo.ca) Received: (qmail 27660 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Sep 2005 11:32:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.ca; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=L2HYsg4ScZIAio/TW0PzMhdl1He4Sk08+YpJP5oxZ1rC4B4ZxFIXZqlRGt+ESuhWuTRwSn+eT8dzqkKxUORGi3iY7wGVB/FR7kl0m/sZa7Pp2zLTtBhem4C/Kmvfr6nUKHn2AdD7F/S3HUxEMfIzSjvAJ3LSfv2PoGncxesVT8M= ; Message-ID: <20050920113210.27658.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.198.54.41] by web50610.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:32:10 EDT Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:32:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathy Page To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509200326.j8K3QvZn022384@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Two-toned Silk Velvet X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks Bella, that sounds like a close relative for sure. I don't suppose the book mentions how cut velvet with a contrasting colour backing was made? That would imply it existed, just not put to use uncut. Then at least I could justify the use of it for embossing or jaquard. Kathy > Kathy, the closest I could find to a 'changeable' > velvet in history is something called chameleon > velvet: > > "This is a velvet with an iridescent effect: the > pile appears to be of two different colours, > depending on the angle from which one looks at it. > Of course, the manufacture makes use of two > different pile warps in different colours and a > special system of weaving. This was in fashion for > men's and women's clothing from 1842 until 1846." > > (Orsi Landini, R. and Redaelli, A. "Techniques and > Types of Velvet" in Velvet: History Techniques > Fashions, p 191. Ed Fabrizio de Marinis. Idea Books, > NY 1994 Eng. Version) It’s never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot English is essentially Pictish that was attacked out of nowhere by Angles cohabiting with Teutons who were done in by a drunk bunch of Vikings masquerading as Frenchmen who insisted they spoke Latin and Greek but lacked the Arabic in which to convey that. -Bill Hammel __________________________________________________________ Find your next car at http://autos.yahoo.ca _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 07:43:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KBhoHo013758 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KBhRLI064596 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); 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Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:43:16 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1090/Mon Sep 19 15:29:31 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8KBhoHo013758 Status: RO Also, you can find bamboo and plastic sticks (also called fan staves) http://www.featherplace.com/ic/fp/BBSTAVES.html -Irmgart _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 16:43:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KKhvPc026012 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:43:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KKh1TZ043206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:43:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KKgS72000851; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:42:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KKg3C2000474 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:42:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.89.2fac0b2d (15875) for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R42 (fwm-r42.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.146]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e0343307410d6; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:41:52 -0400 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:41:47 -0400 Message-Id: <8C78C3ADB07B3E8-1188-4BB9@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.146) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:41:47 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.14204 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.146 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Okay, this may seem like the wrong time of year for this question, but I'm making a bunch of Santa dolls for a craft show in November, and I got to wondering what kind of garment Santa's traditional costume is supposed to be? You know, the one that was made popular by the early 20th Century Coca-Cola ads. I know Santa became really popular for the first time in the 1880s or so, but who invented his get-up? Did anyone ever really dress like that, or is it a Victorian concoction? My Santas, for what it's worth, will be dressed in mid-19th Century waistcoats and jackets, mainly because I have some cool brocade I want to use on the waistcoats. Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 18:14:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KMENLd027088 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:14:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KM9XxN053767 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:09:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KM8wqW065850; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:09:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KM8VOZ065513 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:08:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.cf.31860ac7 (4394) for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:08:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:08:22 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/20/05 7:06:15 PM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > I spend a lot of time working to get things looking as near accurate > as I can for my customers, but really, sometimes I wonder why I bother. > > Suzi > God, I know that feeling!!! Debbie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 18:58:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KMwdRd027663 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:58:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KMqFoj058795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:52:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KMpu8C095657; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:52:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KMplWr095474 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:51:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D977E3C84C for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:51:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <433092B9.10903@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:52:41 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus References: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> <8C78C3ADB07B3E8-1188-4BB9@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C78C3ADB07B3E8-1188-4BB9@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO tearoses@aol.com wrote: > what kind of garment Santa's traditional costume is supposed to be? You know, the one that was made popular by the early 20th Century Coca-Cola ads. Interesting question. http://www.dovercards.com/_images/0486236609_46_Thomas%2520Nast_Santa%2520at%2520Chimney.jpg This is a Nast Santa, and it looks like he's in longjohns. http://www.sonofthesouth.net/Thomas_Nast/Original_Santa_Claus.jpg Another Nast Santa, from 1865, he's in striped pants, a fur lined jacket with stars on it, and some kind of cap, but it still doesn't look like 1865 fashion. The image is heavily political, the stars and stripes are obviously iconic. http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg This is a Coca-Cola Santa from 1954... and you're right. What the heck is the suit supposed to be? It's not a 1954 men's fashion, is it? And why red? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 19:29:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KNTkgm027941 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:29:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KNTIdM062975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:29:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KNTGwA020082; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:29:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KNTDQS019999 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:29:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-178.sonic.net [209.148.113.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KNT9Y6020545 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:29:10 -0700 Message-ID: <43309B4B.1080807@lavoltapress.com> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:29:15 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] House of Elliot X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a six-tape set of the BBC series _The House of Elliot_. There is a DVD set out advertised as "series one" and just lately, a second DVD set (I think currently exclusively available from Acorn Media) advertised as "series two." Does anyone with knowledge of both the tape set and the first DVD series (and/or the original BBC showings) know whether this second DVD set has different material from the tapes? Or whether they just chose to remaster the tapes over two DVD packages instead of one? I have not found any reviews or listings that clarify this point. _The House of Elliot_ is not much on intellectual content, but it's got great clothes. For those who don't know, it's about two fictional sisters who started a couture house in the 1920s. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 19:50:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8KNo8JI028188 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:50:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8KNndFL065456 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:49:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KNncAn031906; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:49:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8KNnX12031860 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:49:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTAIQKN6R49BWMPK@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:49:31 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTAIQIE2D68YYQUZ@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:49:30 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:49:10 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] House of Elliot In-reply-to: <43309B4B.1080807@lavoltapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <43309FF6.3040203@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <43309B4B.1080807@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > I have a six-tape set of the BBC series _The House of Elliot_. There > is a DVD set out advertised as "series one" and just lately, a second > DVD set (I think currently exclusively available from Acorn Media) > advertised as "series two." Does anyone with knowledge of both the > tape set and the first DVD series (and/or the original BBC showings) > know whether this second DVD set has different material from the > tapes? Or whether they just chose to remaster the tapes over two DVD > packages instead of one? I have not found any reviews or listings > that clarify this point. > > _The House of Elliot_ is not much on intellectual content, but it's > got great clothes. For those who don't know, it's about two fictional > sisters who started a couture house in the 1920s. > "Series One" is the first twelve episodes and "Series Two" is the next twelve(?). -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 22:15:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L2F1IY029763 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L2EG2Q079352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L2EEcU005576; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:14:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L2ECqb005482 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:14:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 4so79132nzn for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:14:07 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=W0CUTJnXzDjQOa3RsX+jeYiR7zXwTxtj2jO6WMOQ3BBedkMz+JWuxSnBgC+HxpebSa2fbLLQpUEwQbT6JmF8sC/e8TVFjETSDdWu+j9Qs7aMDi7288auWK+l7TR4AGRDK1rWsBmk1j69ZkMrAVlv1P8FtBKdYlpXyqGBUalfXH4= Received: by 10.36.10.16 with SMTP id 16mr4154664nzj; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:14:06 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8L2ECqb005482 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: making a fan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >They are called fan sticks. Try to search for it at lace materials dealers. >Lacis have some made of bamboo for 30 dollars. The obvious follow up question is: what glue do you use? Presumeably this differs as the fan & stick combination of materials changes. I have a set of turn-of-the-previous-century ivory sticks with the junkiest piece of plastic lace in place of the proper silk. (A found object - I'm innocent!) --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 22:42:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L2gCS0031523 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:42:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L2flNM082652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:41:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L2fjSR019561; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:41:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (thunder.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L2ffbE019529 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:41:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from STILSKIN@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail2.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.185]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD094992A for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:41:39 +1000 (EST) Received: from b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au (b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au [203.100.229.188]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:41:39 +1000 Message-ID: <1127270499.4330c86394d3b@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:41:39 +1000 From: STILSKIN@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: making a fan References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, when a mummy science fiction fan loves a daddy science fiction fan . . . -C. ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 23:41:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L3fiq9032153 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:41:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L3fFpf088366 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:41:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L3fEFF050166; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:41:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.149]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8L3fBrH050083 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:41:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 793 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2005 03:41:05 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=YkobmPQPlXVXpY7yIIYTWXvptlrsH/++5vFgCsL3NLIubIBuQDMRX4E6oC/hhkwY3JoFfkBv8dcWnBz0//899+BcGZhzXnlIhuvvJq34kRUpNOeiJX3wO9ryQhbiZp47/Wu8DRx359/HjGt+9K1llmUjo7lZNzW2IkFpBhpj038= ; Message-ID: <20050921034105.791.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.74.148] by web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:41:05 PDT Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:41:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Guildhall Museum Medieval Gallery (was Odd Jerkin question) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > From: Suzi Clarke > Re: [h-cost] Odd Jerkin question... > >...the Guildhall Museum collection was incorporated > >into that of the City Museum (Museum of London)... > > The leather jerkin that is usually on display is > currently in store > as there is a new medieval gallery (400AD - 1558AD) > opening in late > October or early November...... > > Suzi Is this going to be a permanent display or a temporary one, and if temporary, any idea how long it will be on display? Thanks, Annette M __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 20 23:56:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L3uD8N032295 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:56:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L3tln4089618 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:55:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L3tj17056353; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:55:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L3tgDr056327 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EHvhs06H0-0004U5; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:55:40 -0400 Message-ID: <004101c5be60$57e3ec60$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: making a fan Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:55:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I can tell you from my goof-up... don't use super glue on a fan. I did this to an antique fan, and permanently glued the whole fan in a closed position. GRRRR... I guess we live and learn. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 00:12:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L4CqZf032448 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:12:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L4CPVn091229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:12:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L4CNvJ067233; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:12:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L4CI66067182 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:12:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EHvxw3A23-0001JM; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:12:16 -0400 Message-ID: <005601c5be62$a9ef4570$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:12:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Old Thread X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8L4CqZf032448 Status: RO We talked a while back about airfares from the U.S. to Europe. I promised I would let people know when the fares started dropping again. I just received these fares from United Airlines Newsletter: Sample fares are for travel beginning September 26 through September 29, 2005 and returning October 3 through October 6, 2005. Additional taxes and fees apply.* From: To: Roundtrip: Chicago (ORD) London, England (LHR) $500 New York City (JFK) London, England (LHR) $404 Washington, D.C. (IAD) Amsterdam, Netherlands (AMS) $558 At one point last February, you could fly from DC to London for $175 roundtrip. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 01:32:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L5WW0H000844 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:32:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L5VhEl003157 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:31:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L5VgI2001821; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:31:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8L5Vbuq001751 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:31:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 3732 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2005 05:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2005 05:31:29 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921062549.01d3b048@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:31:29 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <20050921034105.791.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> <20050921034105.791.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Museum of London new Medieval Gallery (was Guildhall Museum Medieval Gallery) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 04:41 21/09/2005, you wrote: > > From: Suzi Clarke > > Re: [h-cost] Odd Jerkin question... > > > >...the Guildhall Museum collection was incorporated > > >into that of the City Museum (Museum of London)... > > > > The leather jerkin that is usually on display is > > currently in store > > as there is a new medieval gallery (400AD - 1558AD) > > opening in late > > October or early November...... > > > > Suzi > >Is this going to be a permanent display or a temporary >one, and if temporary, any idea how long it will be on >display? As far as I know, the new Medieval Gallery is permanent. The exhibition that is being mounted to draw attention to it is a temporary one. The Museum is constantly undergoing refurbishment in various departments, and this is a really rather major one! It is no longer called the "Guildhall Museum" - it has been the Museum of London for over 25 years. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 01:41:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L5fwPG000988 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L5febH004814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:41:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L5fdlN005492; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:41:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L5fZQd005400 for ; Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:41:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.219.99cb2a5 (2612) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:41:27 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <219.99cb2a5.30624c87@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:41:27 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] House of Elliot To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/20/2005 7:32:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: The House of Elliot_ is not much on intellectual content, but it's got great clothes. For those who don't know, it's about two fictional sisters who started a couture house in the 1920s. Be sure to catch the French & Saunders [yes that's Jennifer Saunders of Ab Fab] spoof of it: "House of Idiot". It's on their DVD called "At The Movies" with them as Thelma & Louise on the cover. Too funny. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 04:10:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8L8AR5V031162 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 04:10:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8L89m9k021701 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:09:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L89loH065843; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:09:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8L89i9Z065802 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:09:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8L89bS26269.; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:09:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:09:37 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:09:25 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] House of Elliot Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8L8AR5V031162 Status: RO I watched it on TV, and there were certainly at least two series, if not more. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> fran@lavoltapress.com 21/09/2005 00:29 >>> I have a six-tape set of the BBC series _The House of Elliot_. There is a DVD set out advertised as "series one" and just lately, a second DVD set (I think currently exclusively available from Acorn Media) advertised as "series two." Does anyone with knowledge of both the tape set and the first DVD series (and/or the original BBC showings) know whether this second DVD set has different material from the tapes? Or whether they just chose to remaster the tapes over two DVD packages instead of one? I have not found any reviews or listings that clarify this point. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 08:52:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LCpxWN005173 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:51:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LCpCV8054520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:51:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LCpA05082827; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:51:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from navgw3.mccc.edu (navgw3.mccc.edu [198.133.170.100]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LCp66n082790 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:51:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from pinner@mccc.edu) Received: from tecoma.mccc.edu ([198.133.170.1]) by navgw3.mccc.edu (SMSSMTP 4.1.0.19) with SMTP id M2005092108503311651 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:50:33 -0400 Received: from Kate ([198.133.170.246]) by tecoma.mccc.edu (8.12.10+Sun/8.11.4) with SMTP id j8LCoh3E028842 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:50:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000d01c5beab$1f193d40$4ca810ac@Kate> From: "Kate Pinner" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> <8C78C3ADB07B3E8-1188-4BB9@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:50:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 1822 -- Clement Moore -- "A Visit From Saint Nicholas". This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he was dressed (a picture in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from there. Before that, I don't think there was a clear image of him that someone could identify immediately by some specific article of clothing...at least in the US. Kate ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus > Okay, this may seem like the wrong time of year for this question, but I'm > making a bunch of Santa dolls for a craft show in November, and I got to > wondering what kind of garment Santa's traditional costume is supposed to > be? You know, the one that was made popular by the early 20th Century > Coca-Cola ads. I know Santa became really popular for the first time in > the 1880s or so, but who invented his get-up? Did anyone ever really dress > like that, or is it a Victorian concoction? > > My Santas, for what it's worth, will be dressed in mid-19th Century > waistcoats and jackets, mainly because I have some cool brocade I want to > use on the waistcoats. > > Tea Rose > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 09:03:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LD3wfL005315 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:03:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LD2x64055709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:02:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LD2vHg088623; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:02:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au (mail-iinet.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LD2q7A088570 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:02:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-5-241.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) ([203.173.5.241]) by mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 21 Sep 2005 19:57:01 +0800 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:04:53 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Garden To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] help with Rocking Horse Farm pattern X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi, some time ago I ordered and received the Mens Regency patterns from Rocking Horse Farm - #201 Tailcoat and #204 Dragoon Uniform. I just went and looked at them again and found I've mislaid the instructions to both. Has anyone on this list used these patterns? And if so, are there anything tricky bits I should be aware of? Many, many thanks, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 09:18:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LDIqKE005536 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:18:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LDHsbX056847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:17:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LDHrjX096274; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:17:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LDHkSq096221 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:17:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from [4.249.81.211] (dialup-4.249.81.211.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.81.211]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LDHgGF013779 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:17:43 -0700 Message-ID: <43315DB4.3080905@oldwaylane.net> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:18:44 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: making a fan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cin wrote: >>From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" >>They are called fan sticks. Try to search for it at lace materials dealers. >>Lacis have some made of bamboo for 30 dollars. > > > >The obvious follow up question is: what glue do you use? Presumeably >this differs as the fan & stick combination of materials changes. I >have a set of turn-of-the-previous-century ivory sticks with the >junkiest piece of plastic lace in place of the proper silk. (A found >object - I'm innocent!) > Go to and plug in the two materials you're trying to glue -bamboo & silk (wood to fabric)? "Wood to Fabric If you don't want your fabric to be crisp, we recommend: 3M 77 , But if you don't mind crispyness, use: Elmer's Carpenter's Glue or LePage's Bondfast" I would guess ivory to be closest to plastic for glueing purposes. -Judy Mitchell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 09:20:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LDKovU005563 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:20:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LDKI0L057040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:20:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LDKIKu097567; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:20:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail9.tpgi.com.au (mail9.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LDKChE097512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:20:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-217-107-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.217.107]) by mail9.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8LDK940014918 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 23:20:11 +1000 Message-ID: <002001c5beae$f8685060$6bd9f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <091920052114.11027.432F2A3500047B4200002B132207021573050C010C0E0A9FA19B020E9F030E9D@comcast.net> <6.2.3.4.2.20050919151427.0257ee30@pop.surewest.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 23:18:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO if you type fan in the search box at the top left of the screen the first item that comes up is these http://www.displaycostume.com/detail.asp?item=220973 "bamboo fan staves" Elizabeth > Did you get the maribou fan? That's the only folding fan I found on > the web site. > Joan > > At 02:14 PM 9/19/2005, you wrote: > >I picked up the sticks for the fan I'm making at: > >www.displaycostume.com > >the company is here in Seattle but they do website orders and will ship. > >Good Luck > >Molly _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 11:32:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LFWIM8007577 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:32:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LFVJ7S072462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:31:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LFVEtT083913; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:31:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.149]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LFV9FP083765 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:31:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 89286 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2005 15:31:03 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=kfSV2y6YjsJVdCVPHqMNdymmOcV0QD8wLsu0zDdxXly2keM25TLHOhDXjPqg6a2NnJaWarCC+GuHUy/J+SqjRg1k/za0zc0KRLoSj/JmPuGiHEzV3DWF0f+J4kV8qOVijy4aVWoFV5H5TbVbCQWcghf2r/zEGGHJAoWt1qMFC3o= ; Message-ID: <20050921153103.89284.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.74.148] by web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:31:03 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:31:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509211254.j8LCpBt9082828@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dressing Santa Claus X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know how accurate this is, but I had always been told that prior to the Moore/Nast (American) idea of St. Nick's appearance, that many countries/ethnic groups had their own version of St. Nicholas or some similar personality (Baba Yaga in Russia?) and each had their own costume based on how they were portrayed in the stories. If I remember correctly, Sinter Claaus wears a bishop's costume, complete with mitre and staff and rides a white horse. Annette M > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:41:47 -0400 > From: tearoses@aol.com > Subject: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus > > Okay, this may seem like the wrong time of year for > this question, but I'm making a bunch of Santa dolls > for a craft show in November, and I got to wondering > what kind of garment Santa's traditional costume is > supposed to be? You know, the one that was made > popular by the early 20th Century Coca-Cola ads. I > know Santa became really popular for the first time > in the 1880s or so, but who invented his get-up? Did > anyone ever really dress like that, or is it a > Victorian concoction? > > My Santas, for what it's worth, will be dressed in > mid-19th Century waistcoats and jackets, mainly > because I have some cool brocade I want to use on > the waistcoats. > > Tea Rose > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:36:17 -0500 > From: "Abel, Cynthia" > Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus > > Thomas Nast, probably was the illustrator that > started the image of > Santa we have today. I don't think all of Nast's > Santa's wore a red > outfit, but just about all the images I recall > usually show him in a > practical winter weather two-piece fur-trimmed suit, > suited for a jolly > old elf" and a stocking cap. The earlier(1820's) > "The Night Before > Christmas" probably really was the starting point > that took the European > St. Nicholas and made him Santa Claus. If I remember > correctly, this > Claus was derived more from the slightly > Protestanized Dutch Sinter > Claaus, than St. Nicholas. I think that the present > Santa Claus is a > blend of Sinter Claaus(bad kids got a bunch of > switches in their wooden > shoes), The Night Before Christmas" jolly old elf > leaving tons of gifts, > with the sleigh and reindeer, Scrooge post-three > spirits visit, Thomas > Nast's artwork, and the big Depression era start > point of > commercializing Christmas to drum up sales during a > traditionally slow > economic time of year. A great big very well-fed guy > in a cheery and > confident color red with grandfatherly white beard > and whiskers was just > the visual ticket to lift the economically stressed > consumer. > > See if your library has any histories on Santa > Claus(not the kids' > fiction books). Amazon.com has Wonderworker: the > history of Santa Claus, > which has a pic of one of Thomas Nast's Santa's on > the cover--with a > very present-day politically incorrect pipe between > his lips! Many > dollmakers have made their own Santas and St. > Nicholas' and I think > there is a book out there somewhere just full of > them as a great idea > board for you. > > Cindy Abel > > > But put your Santas in whatever. The brocade could > be used as linings or > trims, as well as waistcoats. Message: 15 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:50:55 -0400 From: "Kate Pinner" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus 1822 -- Clement Moore -- "A Visit From Saint Nicholas". This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he was dressed (a picture in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from there. Before that, I don't think there was a clear image of him that someone could identify immediately by some specific article of clothing...at least in the US. Kate __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 12:31:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LGVn00008549 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:31:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LGV20N080068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:31:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LGUbUS031985; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:30:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.BAY0.HOTMAIL.COM (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LGUJGo031663 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:30:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP08.BAY0.HOTMAIL.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:30:13 -0700 Message-ID: <43318A99.4030400@msn.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:30:17 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2005 16:30:13.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[BDF214F0:01C5BEC9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: > > I quote "David Starkey explains why, sometimes, artistic licence is > better for drama than authenticity." (Says who?) I assume this explanation occurs in the film itself and not the article? I'd like to hear what he has to say. > > The interest for us will no doubt be the costumes. Well, I'm getting > my b*tch in first. Helen Mirren is posing with Jeremy Irons (great so > far) in a gown that has seams which curve into the armhole. Do you mean in the front? They had them in the back for sure. Wish we could see the photo. > And the underskirt is an embroidered dupion which is extraordinarily > like 18th century flower embroidery. (I used it for my 18th century > bride recently.) The braid is a braid I buy in a local shop, and would > never have considered for Elizabeth - far too plain. There is a > "collar of glass jewels and pheasant feathers in which Helen Mirren > gives Queen Elizabeth's Armada speech". I will no doubt watch, as I > adore Jeremy Irons, but I don't anticipate much joy from the costumes. > I spend a lot of time working to get things looking as near accurate > as I can for my customers, but really, sometimes I wonder why I bother. > > Suzi > Have you ever read Hunnisett's explanation of the costs asscoiated with making the Ditchley gown for the Elizabeth R series? Why does every production of anything having to do with history have to be "perfectly accurate" down to the seams? Should the have to go "all the way" and have reproduction everything? Consider the targeted audience. Most people wouldn't notice any of the detail you speak of. Do your clients? That anyone is producing history films at all is a boon in my mind. If absolute costume accuracy were the criteria, all we would ever see is contemporary films...it would be all that was affordable. Just my two cents.... Sg I am sure this is not the article you speak of, but it does have some pictures. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2005/09/10/bflizzie10.xml _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 12:39:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LGddKG008721 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:39:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LGVQDe080132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:38:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LGAwnD015836; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:10:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.144]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LGAqte015649 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:10:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 54495 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2005 16:10:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=DEoIGRXcJoi09EL+3nk+qlGA6729X4SvfHNFMcMRMDMbvp9X1OaK0ELwgQ2KoF1k44BnNoFpIUl1RYIJDxPXmyLzx45UwCL3zc4ecMmg/A3Bl7vZk5EjyCZjTsJUeuraiRYvzmrDaX4vbtbzqrWvr5/SlkzmJXxDVjRsswHvQRk= ; Message-ID: <20050921161046.54493.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.74.148] by web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:10:46 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:10:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509140022.j8E0KBZs087376@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kilcommon Jacket 2 last questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Thank you to everyone that responded. It was very helpful. One last question on this topic... Wool or Linen? I did buy a nice 'homespun' cotton that has a nice texture and feel and resembles linen, but it will need some type of crisp lining. I have regular interfacing - not the fusible kind - and was thinking of layering that between the cotton and some sort of lining fabric. Certainly not accurate, but I thought it might be a nice look for the wedding. Make that two questions - we are considering the 'embroidered' embellishments similar to those shown in the woodcuts, but tone on tone. How is this to be done - before assembling the pieces or after the jacket is done? And how to keep the fabric smooth and taut enough to accomplish this so it looks nice? My 'needlework' experiece is limited to what fits in a hoop or on a stretcher. Thanks again, Annette M __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 12:56:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LGuaHU008979 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:56:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LGtVaa082644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:55:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LGt5LE050981; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:55:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LGsYiB050507 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:54:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 5589 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2005 16:54:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AG3b5YD82DrK1AvKdrdAH8wDraoq4G2hvsXJN5kcEZ4J9ohAbLQIU0P+Y4wSOVjOnS0rDmLa892i6cr8KJZzhoWo2pmyTVCX1211FPQxFcB79tCPy0eww6etmlmdMYGF/lc2zXjIbl3xJAI2uhSHAmW9Iiw8nmgmHMDn9Vpe0Bw= ; Message-ID: <20050921165428.5587.qmail@web25906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.214] by web25906.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:54:28 BST Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:54:28 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson Subject: Re: [h-cost] Old Thread To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <005601c5be62$a9ef4570$6400a8c0@Penny> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: We talked a while back about airfares from the U.S. to Europe. I promised I would let people know when the fares started dropping again. I just received these fares from United Airlines Newsletter: Sample fares are for travel beginning September 26 through September 29, 2005 and returning October 3 through October 6, 2005. Additional taxes and fees apply.* From: To: Roundtrip: Chicago (ORD) London, England (LHR) $500 New York City (JFK) London, England (LHR) $404 Washington, D.C. (IAD) Amsterdam, Netherlands (AMS) $558 At one point last February, you could fly from DC to London for $175 roundtrip. Penny E. Ladnier Comment Dear Penny, - what about low-cost air fres in the other direction UK-US-UK - for those of us who'd love to visit SCA events in the US? Members of our Company would love to do that, or even to visit SCA events in Drachenwald, - but the high local roundtrip fares to get to the mainland Uk or to France - make it out of the question for the most of our Companions - [mostly blue-collar workers, - or still at school and therefore not earning; - or retired folk]. I enquire because in our little island the only Carriers - sea or air - who service us, frequently post low-fare travel offers UK-Jersey-UK where the same low fares are not available Jersey-UK-Jersey !! There are times when it costs Jersey residents as much for Jersey-UK roundtrips as it does for UK-US roundtrips. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 12:58:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LGwgmw009004 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:58:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LGw5sk082953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:58:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LGvaAn052988; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:57:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LFafcj088113 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:37:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1e3.4474883e (15875) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R40 (fwm-r40.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.144]) by air-id07.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID72-3e0343317dfa37a; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:36:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:36:25 -0400 Message-Id: <8C78CD95C87CC91-DB8-884A@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200509211254.j8LCpBt9082828@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.144) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:36:25 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200509211254.j8LCpBt9082828@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.14204 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.144 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thanks for your responses. I think we're getting somewhere, but let me rephrase my question. What I'm really wondering is, if I wanted to make a costume like this one: http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg and call it historical, where would I go to document it? Who would have worn something like that in real life? Victorian isn't my period, but I don't recall ever seeing anybody dress like that in my brief studies of that century. Is it a Victorian or 20th Century confabulation of some earlier period? Or is it some kind of 19th Century Dutch costume? Does anyone have any pictures of a real person wearing a similar costume, maybe in some other color or without the fur trim? Nast seems to have dressed him in clothes derived from his own period, though possibly a little fantasized, but did the Coca-Cola artist make up the traditional costume or did he derive it from earlier drawings? Tea Rose P.S. I think I'll go look up that WonderWorker book; thanks for the reference. I know there are all kinds of Santas these days, which is why I don't feel compelled to do the traditional suit, but I'm curious about where the traditional suit came from. ============================== From: "Abel, Cynthia" I don't think all of Nast's Santa's wore a red outfit, but just about all the images I recall usually show him in a practical winter weather two-piece fur-trimmed suit, suited for a jolly old elf" and a stocking cap. If I remember correctly, this Claus was derived more from the slightly Protestanized Dutch Sinter Claaus, than St. Nicholas. A great big very well-fed guy in a cheery and confident color red with grandfatherly white beard and whiskers was just the visual ticket to lift the economically stressed consumer. Amazon.com has Wonderworker: the history of Santa Claus, which has a pic of one of Thomas Nast's Santa's on the cover--with a very present-day politically incorrect pipe between his lips! From: Dawn http://www.dovercards.com/_images/0486236609_46_Thomas%2520Nast_Santa%2520at%2520Chimney.jpg This is a Nast Santa, and it looks like he's in longjohns. http://www.sonofthesouth.net/Thomas_Nast/Original_Santa_Claus.jpg Another Nast Santa, from 1865, he's in striped pants, a fur lined jacket with stars on it, and some kind of cap, but it still doesn't look like 1865 fashion. The image is heavily political, the stars and stripes are obviously iconic. http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg This is a Coca-Cola Santa from 1954... and you're right. What the heck is the suit supposed to be? It's not a 1954 men's fashion, is it? And why red? Dawn From: "Kate Pinner" 1822 -- Clement Moore -- "A Visit From Saint Nicholas". This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he was dressed (a picture in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from there. Before that, I don't think there was a clear image of him that someone could identify immediately by some specific article of clothing...at least in the US. Kate _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 13:07:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LH7J2Y009130 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:07:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LH6gwa083972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LH5Hr0059056; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:06:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LH3wxK058016 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:04:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 88045 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2005 17:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2005 17:03:52 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921175041.01d3d540@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:03:53 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-Reply-To: References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 17:30 21/09/2005, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: > >> >>I quote "David Starkey explains why, sometimes, artistic licence is >>better for drama than authenticity." (Says who?) > >I assume this explanation occurs in the film itself and not the >article? I'd like to hear what he has to say. No, this is in the article. It is a drama, not a documentary. >>The interest for us will no doubt be the costumes. Well, I'm >>getting my b*tch in first. Helen Mirren is posing with Jeremy Irons >>(great so far) in a gown that has seams which curve into the armhole. > >Do you mean in the front? They had them in the back for sure. Wish >we could see the photo. No I don't - I mean in the front, over the bust. >>I spend a lot of time working to get things looking as near >>accurate as I can for my customers, but really, sometimes I wonder >>why I bother. >> >Have you ever read Hunnisett's explanation of the costs asscoiated >with making the Ditchley gown for the Elizabeth R series? I was taught by Jean Hunnisett, and I know what she went through. The courses she taught were to show costume makers how original garments were made wherever possible, (using original garments in museums where available) and then to reproduce them to the best of their ability. Her whole ethos was to make everything look as accurate as possible, using modern techniques and fabrics. She hated costume that did not look right, and in particular was horribly disappointed with David Starkey, whose documentary series on Elizabeth used her original costumes for "Elizabeth R" but for the wrong dates. (For example, clothes made for the 1570's were worn during the 1590's and vice versa.) She even wrote to him with her complaint. >Why does every production of anything having to do with history have >to be "perfectly accurate" down to the seams? Should the have to go >"all the way" and have reproduction everything? Consider the >targeted audience. Most people wouldn't notice any of the detail >you speak of. Do your clients? That anyone is producing history >films at all is a boon in my mind. If absolute costume accuracy >were the criteria, all we would ever see is contemporary films...it >would be all that was affordable. The learning and teaching of history in Britain is getting worse and worse, in part because TV series and films show inaccurate details. People in this country believe what they see on the TV and do not know enough to get it right. If TV companies have the money to produce costume drama, how much more expensive is it to do the research (as the costume person is said to have done) and to get it right. I have worked on film too, and it is no more expensive - at least when I have made costumes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 13:35:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LHZK8u009543 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:35:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LHYs6v089475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:34:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHYdq5083636; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:34:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHYFUu083305 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:34:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-147.sonic.net [209.148.113.147]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHYDcg016435 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:34:14 -0700 Message-ID: <4331999B.7000700@lavoltapress.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:34:19 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20050921175041.01d3d540@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921175041.01d3d540@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi, I take it you applied for this costuming job, but didn't get it? Fran > he hated costume that did not look right, and in particular was > horribly disappointed with David Starkey, whose documentary series on > Elizabeth used her original costumes for "Elizabeth R" but for the > wrong dates. (For example, clothes made for the 1570's were worn > during the 1590's and vice versa.) She even wrote to him with her > complaint. > < > I have worked on film too, and it is no more expensive - at least > when I have made costumes. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 13:36:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LHavjl009572 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:36:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LHaULQ089787 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:36:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHaFnO084847; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:36:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHZqQp084480 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:36:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1c5.30d7dad2 (4394) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:29:06 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c5.30d7dad2.3062f262@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:29:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/2005 12:32:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wickedfrau@msn.com writes: Why does every production of anything having to do with history have to be "perfectly accurate" down to the seams? Uh....the seams are the EASIEST things to get accurate. There's just no reason whatsoever to cut thing wrong. Should the have to go "all the way" and have reproduction everything? Consider the targeted audience. Most people wouldn't notice any of the detail you speak of. Costume for morons? I don't think so. Maybe we can teach them something. Hell, if they don't notice the costumes anyway, let's just do it in jeans and t-shirts, OK? Why have I been wasting my time all these decades??? I suppose this goes for the set dressers and designers and the lighting too. Hell any old chair and table will do. And just some general illumination. We don't need ART! No one notices anyway. Right? Gee, thanks for the input, Sg! Very helpful. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 13:50:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LHoBSx009758 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:50:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LHnWdL092497 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHmM1w094993; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:49:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHl4bf093949 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from irmgart@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id t9so153201wxc for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:46:58 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ew2+AathDVZbMS+7LR/ZKr1TU3HRwM4EPsdhL5BKmQvGVtfwQcrcps1JKfV34r2MTYpgyEDI/FTWrdlnu3uUvBsSKuYgYwC5b3WnbqIztqDSkpCB3TlNR+V4U1su9mE+AKnYaDAx1pajOUQ8R/86+iAeU368DEwTpPkG6njOva0= Received: by 10.70.63.16 with SMTP id l16mr2689007wxa; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.67.11 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:46:58 -0400 From: Irmgart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-Reply-To: <1c5.30d7dad2.3062f262@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1c5.30d7dad2.3062f262@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8LHoBSx009758 Status: RO *laugh* I really hope Saragrace doesn't take the same offense at this post that I'm trying not to. Sarcasm was uncalled for. No one is saying that things shouldn't be as accurate as possible... however, "possible" is many different things to many different people. It all depends on budget, time, knowledge, and a hundred other things. Yes, for us seams may be the easiest thing to get right, but perhaps they aren't. -Irmgart On 9/21/05, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/21/2005 12:32:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > wickedfrau@msn.com writes: > > Why does every > production of anything having to do with history have to be "perfectly > accurate" down to the seams? > Uh....the seams are the EASIEST things to get accurate. There's just no > reason whatsoever to cut thing wrong. > > > > Should the have to go "all the way" and > have reproduction everything? Consider the targeted audience. Most > people wouldn't notice any of the detail you speak of. > Costume for morons? I don't think so. Maybe we can teach them something. > > Hell, if they don't notice the costumes anyway, let's just do it in jeans > and t-shirts, OK? Why have I been wasting my time all these decades??? > > I suppose this goes for the set dressers and designers and the lighting > too. > Hell any old chair and table will do. And just some general illumination. > We > don't need ART! No one notices anyway. Right? > > Gee, thanks for the input, Sg! Very helpful. > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 13:50:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LHoB18009754 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:50:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LHnWcF092498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:49:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHmDKx094880; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:49:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.139]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LHknAR093699 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:48:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 32923 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2005 17:46:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp802.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2005 17:46:37 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921184513.01d32980@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:46:39 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-Reply-To: <4331999B.7000700@lavoltapress.com> References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> <6.2.3.4.0.20050921175041.01d3d540@127.0.0.1> <4331999B.7000700@lavoltapress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 18:34 21/09/2005, you wrote: >Suzi, > >I take it you applied for this costuming job, but didn't get it? > >Fran > I find that comment unnecessary, rude and offensive. Suzi > > >>he hated costume that did not look right, and in particular was >>horribly disappointed with David Starkey, whose documentary series >>on Elizabeth used her original costumes for "Elizabeth R" but for >>the wrong dates. (For example, clothes made for the 1570's were >>worn during the 1590's and vice versa.) She even wrote to him with >>her complaint. >>< > > > >> I have worked on film too, and it is no more expensive - at least >> when I have made costumes. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 14:24:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LIO4sS010217 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:24:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LINO5Z097043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:23:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LINFDK023344; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:23:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LIMtUi023059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8LIH3jf032073 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:17:03 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4331A4F5.3020202@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:22:45 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus References: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> <8C78C3ADB07B3E8-1188-4BB9@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> <433092B9.10903@reddawn.net> <43318333.5030402@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <43318333.5030402@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What about some of the early "polar explorer" type of clothing, done up in Santa colors? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 14:41:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LIfGSo010557 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:41:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LIVTH8098121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:40:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LI6jKH010065; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:07:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LI2UXc006230 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:03:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so216976nzf for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=fOlU/eGrHODjnKuCwUdkPX3m2IfC4vL539cV68BiSWTL3vYhlAcOy42uMjps7YrGsOhSgHGYWKpugHPEM8jSG+RAqp+D0HwXGe3rUpi+CzGMoHQ7tv+3F1LKAqgC9eARa61PyeArxwEH3eEcy+x43sI+0GQ34E4m7hOP00v7gjI= Received: by 10.36.154.15 with SMTP id b15mr4700422nze; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:02:05 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=4% Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8LI2UXc006230 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] re: making a fan X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Go to and plug in the two materials you're trying to glue -bamboo & silk (wood to fabric)? "Wood to Fabric If you don't want your fabric to be crisp, we recommend: 3M 77 , But if you don't mind crispyness, use: >Elmer's Carpenter's Glue or LePage's Bondfast" >I would guess ivory to be closest to plastic for glueing purposes. > -Judy Mitchell Cool site! Thanks for the tip, Judy. It's been a long time since we met at Costume Con RI, whatcha working on these days? --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 14:41:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LIfNnG010560 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:41:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LIVTHC098121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:41:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LHBmXp064340; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:11:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LFwnJA006080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:58:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0141.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.141]:2345 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1EI6zg-0001k9-7d for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:58:50 -0400 Message-ID: <43318333.5030402@floodcity.net> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:58:43 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus References: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> <8C78C3ADB07B3E8-1188-4BB9@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> <433092B9.10903@reddawn.net> In-Reply-To: <433092B9.10903@reddawn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1096/Wed Sep 21 01:08:33 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn wrote: > tearoses@aol.com wrote: > >> what kind of garment Santa's traditional costume is supposed to be? >> You know, the one that was made popular by the early 20th Century >> Coca-Cola ads. > > > Interesting question. > > http://www.dovercards.com/_images/0486236609_46_Thomas%2520Nast_Santa%2520at%2520Chimney.jpg > > > This is a Nast Santa, and it looks like he's in longjohns. > what is a Nast Santa? > > http://www.sonofthesouth.net/Thomas_Nast/Original_Santa_Claus.jpg > > Another Nast Santa, from 1865, he's in striped pants, a fur lined jacket > with stars on it, and some kind of cap, but it still doesn't look like > 1865 fashion. The image is heavily political, the stars and stripes are > obviously iconic. > > > http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > > This is a Coca-Cola Santa from 1954... and you're right. What the heck > is the suit supposed to be? It's not a 1954 men's fashion, is it? > It looks very workman like to me, refering specifically at the pants and boots, the coat would be a workmans coat if it weren't a bit long, and of course the fur is added. > > And why red? for cheer and to refer to the season? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 14:41:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LIfVRO010563 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:41:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LIVTHI098121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:41:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LGg6e2041295; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:43:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25903.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25903.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LGf5p7040468 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:42:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from smnco37@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 32070 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2005 16:40:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Lq4Xq7yFCzTBUOYXnapbx4S7znmR5x8K4xjuYZzJXOcYyONcIIM0KZqYNbAQGOfcYimz9ElibtMlppcd2QU0fEoftYN5193vcO5Ig/2GwiNRliPAUhdvMJ5UZwFsHjBjj95lVOVw/w1yh86SITPCZ8jpt2YRu3w0+z7e2h7FCjk= ; Message-ID: <20050921164058.32068.qmail@web25903.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.112.138.214] by web25903.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:40:57 BST Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:40:57 +0100 (BST) From: julian wilson To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] comment response re New Programme - "Elizabeth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Debloughcostumes@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 9/20/05 7:06:15 PM GMT Daylight Time, h-costume-request@indra.com writes: > I spend a lot of time working to get things looking as near accurate as I can for my customers, but really, sometimes I wonder why I bother. > Suzi God, I know that feeling!!! Debbie COMMENT Yes, so do I !! I would be astonished if much more than 1% of the MoP who attend our Events - at [say] Gorey Castle - have any real understanding of the enormous amount of behind-the-scenes work, and the many hours of prior research - which enables our Company of passionate & enthusiastic amateur historians/re-enactors to create what we display for the visitora to see and [hopefully] to enjoy. God's Benison upon you all, this Feast of St Aagapitus, and until The Judgement. Yours in service, Julian Wilson, [aka. Messire Matthew Baker/Matthieu Besquer, Governor & Castellan of Jersey, 1486-1497: - "Si vis pacem, para bellum"] late-medieval Re-enactor; & Historian and Master Artisan to "The Companie of the Duke's Leopards", [the only medieval living-history Group in "olde" Jersey] --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 14:48:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LImSCO010686 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:48:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LIlpeW000671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LIlh5M043258; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:47:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LIlbv2043134 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:47:32 -0700 Message-ID: <4331AAC8.1000000@msn.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:47:36 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" References: <1c5.30d7dad2.3062f262@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c5.30d7dad2.3062f262@aol.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2005 18:47:32.0287 (UTC) FILETIME=[ECAE84F0:01C5BEDC] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think you are being extreme in your response. I am not suggesting doing everything in jeans and tee-shirts, nor going on the cheap for props etc. I have too have worked on theatrical costuming, and I beg to differ that doing the research, and absolutly accurate reproduction of clothing is no more expensive than using resonable fabrics, trims etc. Try outfitting a whole cast with lace trim for instance. I can only imagine what it would cost for using reproduction fabrics. I think you are being rather high and mighty. My father was a dramaturg and I used to give him a hard time for his inability to enjoy a production he was veiwing, away from his work, for what it was. As Suz responded, this is drama not a documentary, and its target is a generally costume DETAIL ignorant group of people, not a bunch of costumers who think far too much of their talents and experiences, and that they should be imposed on every production that ever gets made. As to cutting the thing wrong, I would bet my paycheck that if we can find shaping seams in the back of the garment, then we could probably find them in at least one example in the front. And again, in a large scale production, where many gowns are being made, fitting that type of garment _is_ faster and easier. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 15:19:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LJJbY4011216 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:19:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LJJ80f004830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:19:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LJJ63w068386; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:19:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m25.mx.aol.com (imo-m25.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.6]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LJJ2RS068256 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:19:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1e3.4479a8b8 (4394) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:18:54 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1e3.4479a8b8.30630c1e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:18:54 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/2005 2:49:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wickedfrau@msn.com writes: I think you are being rather high and mighty. I am. But don't take it too personally. The "no one will notice" argument is one of my pet peeves. The "No one will notice or cares" argument is no help at all. Look at it this way. A show runs a mere 3 times. The small house only holds 100. At least 300 people can see the show. Are you telling me out of 300 people, NO ONE will know? Besides I know it's wrong. There's one! As far as expense....after a certain professional level...if you don't have the bucks, then don't do it. I can't tell you how many garments and costumes I've made out of a sows ear and made it look like silk. With a little thinking and, yes, extra effort, it can be done. I was asked to do a "southern belle" for the March of Dimes little fund raiser skit. I bought lace cafe curtains by the pound, got donated polyester taffeta bolt ends I pieced together for an underskirt, and cut an accurate gown [even though the fabric wasn't] that looks so good, the designer of a film I did for The Family Channel insisted on using it on Jane Curtin in a major scene...where they talk about the dress! [it's dubbed the Jane Curtin Curtain Dress]. Now I don't really mean to toot my own horn so much....I am not the do all and end all in costuming. But that's my point! I'm just a cutter draper in Wilmington, NC...not even LA or NYC. If I can do it, why can't others? My own experience tells me this. The problem with your $$$$ argument is that most lousy costuming has nothing to do with budget in the major motion picture and TV industry. It's usually a designer who just doesn't get it....or cronyism....or both. There, end of rant. It's not personal...but nix the "No one will know" rap. You are correct about accuracy not working every time. I am not a accuracy nut...but I like RESPECT for the period. Take "Sleepy Hollow" and "Interview with the Vampire". Both take great liberties with fabrics and color. But things are cut accurately and there's a respect for the period...adjusted to fit the fantasy of the drama. Great costumes! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 15:37:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LJb37O011547 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:37:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LJaTR6007159 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:36:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LJaP9n082688; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:36:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LJaKYd082591 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:36:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B56017EB4 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:36:19 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:36:17 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8C78CD95C87CC91-DB8-884A@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p1557.htm -----Original Message----- Thanks for your responses. I think we're getting somewhere, but let me rephrase my question. What I'm really wondering is, if I wanted to make a costume like this one: http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg and call it historical, where would I go to document it? Who would have worn something like that in real life? Victorian isn't my period, but I don't recall ever seeing anybody dress like that in my brief studies of that century. Is it a Victorian or 20th Century confabulation of some earlier period? Or is it some kind of 19th Century Dutch costume? Does anyone have any pictures of a real person wearing a similar costume, maybe in some other color or without the fur trim? Nast seems to have dressed him in clothes derived from his own period, though possibly a little fantasized, but did the Coca-Cola artist make up the traditional costume or did he derive it from earlier drawings? Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 16:07:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LK7NFL012171 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:07:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LK61JH010962 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:06:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LK4ohA006043; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:05:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LK3oiD004925 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0422.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.167]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEF19BEF78 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:03:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <432ED3AB.8040803@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:05:15 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Is Santa Claus not a fantasy version of Sint Nikolaas (Sinterklaas)? otsisto wrote: >http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp >http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p1557.htm > > >-----Original Message----- >Thanks for your responses. I think we're getting somewhere, but let me >rephrase my question. What I'm really wondering is, if I wanted to make a >costume like this one: http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg >and call it historical, where would I go to document it? Who would have worn >something like that in real life? Victorian isn't my period, but I don't >recall ever seeing anybody dress like that in my brief studies of that >century. Is it a Victorian or 20th Century confabulation of some earlier >period? Or is it some kind of 19th Century Dutch costume? Does anyone have >any pictures of a real person wearing a similar costume, maybe in some other >color or without the fur trim? Nast seems to have dressed him in clothes >derived from his own period, though possibly a little fantasized, but did >the Coca-Cola artist make up the traditional costume or did he derive it >from earlier drawings? > >Tea Rose > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 16:08:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LK8gZn012191 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LK8Mpq011257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:08:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LK8HHq008904; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LK8CC9008823 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:08:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.155] (pm5-155.eos.net [205.133.149.155]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8LK89do008670 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:08:10 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:58:31 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509211739.j8LHcoJn086899@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1097/Wed Sep 21 12:56:51 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Santa Claus X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kate Pinner wrote: > 1822 -- Clement Moore -- "A Visit From Saint > Nicholas". > This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he > was dressed (a > picture > in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from > there. But the poem says "He was dressed all in fur from his head to his foot/And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot." That's not a red suit with gleaming white fur by a longshot. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 17:13:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LLDOOc013371 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LLChhZ019338 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:12:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLC6Nf059238; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:12:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLC1F2059170 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:12:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.28]) by pop03.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EIBsm-0001m6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:12:00 -0400 Message-ID: <11438476.1127337120650.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:12:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat said: >The problem with your $$$$ argument is that most lousy costuming has nothing >to do with budget in the major motion picture and TV industry. It's usually >a designer who just doesn't get it....or cronyism....or both. I agree. What particularly infuriates me, personally, is when something is grossly inaccurate when doing it accurately would _NOT_ have been any more expensive or difficult. And all it would have taken to do it right would be ten minutes' worth of asking around among people who actually do know. Common sense, of course, also enters into it: if something is only going to be seen from 20 feet away, make it look good at 20 feet. That's often more a matter of color and silhouette than what actual materials are used. So shortcuts, timesavers and so forth are perfectly reasonable (no one's going to see the bodice and skirt are held together by giant snaps!). On the other hand, if you're doing closeups that show someone's sleeve cuffs on screen from four inches away at 300% of life size, they had better look good from four inches away. That usually means going with more authentic materials and construction. And if a movie bills itself as fiction, of course they can dress their characters in whatever they want. What was most annoying about the film "Elizabeth," a few years ago, is that they did lots of things in counter-historical fashion AND billed the movie as "educational", with study guides and everything. I have no idea how many people came away thinking that Sir Francis Walsingham actually _did_ go to Scotland and murder Mary of Guise after sleeping with her (or whatever it was the movie said he did) -- when in fact I don't think he was ever _in_ Scotland. ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 17:13:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LLDw86013375 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:13:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LLDG6e019431 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLDFXM060163; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:13:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLCM4B059366 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:12:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTBRIZM9Z49BWUKB@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:12:17 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTBRIZ7SSK971GUG@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:12:17 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:12:14 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Kilcommon Jacket 2 last questions In-reply-to: <20050921161046.54493.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4331CCAE.4020802@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <20050921161046.54493.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kahlara wrote: > Thank you to everyone that responded. It was very > helpful. One last question on this topic... > > Wool or Linen? > Wool. > > we are considering the 'embroidered' embellishments > similar to those shown in the woodcuts, but tone on > tone. How is this to be done - before assembling the > pieces or after the jacket is done? And how to keep > the fabric smooth and taut enough to accomplish this > so it looks nice? My 'needlework' experiece is limited > to what fits in a hoop or on a stretcher. I believe the usual 16th century taylor's technique is: 1. Mark the outlines of the pieces to be cut on the fabric. 2. Have the fabric embroidered. 3. Cut out and assemble. Having said that, lots of people (self included) do embroidery without having the work under tension. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 17:52:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LLqVhn013859 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:52:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LLpeZ1024668 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:51:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLpLC5091098; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:51:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLpGvj090965 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:51:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1a8.3f7bf1c7 (3657) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:51:06 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1a8.3f7bf1c7.30632fca@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:51:06 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/2005 5:17:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, claning@igc.org writes: What particularly infuriates me, personally, is when something is grossly inaccurate when doing it accurately would _NOT_ have been any more expensive or difficult. And all it would have taken to do it right would be ten minutes' worth of asking around among people who actually do know. ***************** Or the costume designer thinks he's a fashion designer who can make up whatever he wants and then put it on Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart....or whomever. A costume designer's job is not the same as a fashion designer's. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 17:58:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LLwHkH013915 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:58:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LLvu4F025495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:57:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLvqDm096012; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLvlRx095887 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:57:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.9f.67d55d4b (3657) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:57:35 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <9f.67d55d4b.3063314f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:57:35 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/2005 5:23:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk writes: I also think that people should not say anything unless they have something supportive /informative /nice to say or a question to ask that other people can help with. Sniping is a waste of bandwidth and everyone's time. ************** I was informative. and let's all be "nice"....and avoid all controversy or differing POVs... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Nothing I say here is meant personally. I lean a lot from thrashing things out. I'm never offended by snips at me....we really don't know each other for the most part. Everyone has a POV and I'm interested in hearing it, whether I agree or not. Besides, when one is wrong....one is wrong. Even me. Let's not be so thin skinned. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 18:00:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LM0HtY013957 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LLxjHc025761 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:59:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLxakN097351; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:59:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLxPpb097179 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:59:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTBT6D4YXS9BWUKB@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:59:23 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTBT6COSDK971FO8@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:59:22 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:59:23 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-reply-to: <20050921211601.54300.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4331D7BB.90108@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <20050921211601.54300.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO katherine sanders wrote: > Dear Suzi > > > Sniping is a waste of bandwidth and > everyone's time. > Hear, hear! -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 18:05:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LM5w6g014061 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LM1eNX026073 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:05:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLGRlk062372; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:16:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLF84h061456 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:16:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTBRMH3XW08YY3ZL@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:06 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTBRMGKUCO971GUG@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:05 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:03 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4331CD57.9070609@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO WickedFrau wrote: > > Have you ever read Hunnisett's explanation of the costs asscoiated > with making the Ditchley gown for the Elizabeth R series? Why does > every production of anything having to do with history have to be > "perfectly accurate" down to the seams? Short answer: they don't. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 18:32:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LMWqJO014347 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:32:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LMWQk2029860 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:32:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LMWKA9021846; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:32:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LMWEW4021686 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:32:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s17so352995wxc for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:32:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ikTu4ZOCgcvvIUhvFyFX10e3cL7QnatJXMNkEAUJyiP0N4YEQJ5L1T5otkdvNlJVHGUPM9y8Eo+lfEa+34AAOPUzW0Yt/igw1TV4XSriW1aTW2i8UaF7QF6/prX6Nm2DgbTu5Uakbo8ZKbErcQ/NXUw8aOTL4W5XVPlq9wec31Q= Received: by 10.70.60.14 with SMTP id i14mr2836790wxa; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.31.10 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05092115326d7347a4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:32:05 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-Reply-To: <4331D7BB.90108@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050921211601.54300.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4331D7BB.90108@paradise.net.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8LMWEW4021686 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So, Adele, what did that famous monk Georgeus Gershwinus say? My Latin is nonexistant. LynnD On 9/21/05, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > katherine sanders wrote: > > Dear Suzi > > > > > > > Sniping is a waste of bandwidth and > > everyone's time. > > > Hear, hear! > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > > ----------------------------- > Habeo metrum - musicamque, > hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? > -Georgeus Gershwinus > ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 18:32:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LMWvVp014353 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:32:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LMVcaB029712 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:32:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LLJ7sl064517; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:20:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.182]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LLG7Jg062155 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 54302 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2005 21:16:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=RBzEZdFdM6TKHziF7Ptsc+GAFhRoCwtL8ooirPihJInFfk+/t5jMCqMu6v920zJuuzRr0SmBTxgOKd2zPgZTyTxlsBRd3Hxt6Tgaciak0uM9/i+Nw5RcqKjGZQMkJq0Bbzw7FrhEGMdmxQ/2sf8VNRzO7UqZrFt61G4hTTq5YFQ= ; Message-ID: <20050921211601.54300.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:16:01 BST Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:16:01 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear Suzi I concur about the falling standards of UK history programmes - they seem to be aimed at those with gnat-like attention spans and clips of 'reenactments' are repeated ad nauseam just in case you forgot what happened the last time the presenter mentioned Henry VIII... all of one minute ago. My particular peeve was with a national historic body (who will remain nameless) advertising sites in Scotland using one character who was supposed to be a warrior from Bannockburn but was instead Billy Connolly's double from Braveheart. When I wrote and complained to both the organisation and advertising agency, I was told that all that mattered was making the public 'aware of their sites' by using recognisable images.Honestly. I too was bemused by the princess seams on Elizabeth's very dowdy doublet dress. Surely everyone who makes costumes at that kind of level has access to patterns of fashion?? I also think that people should not say anything unless they have something supportive /informative /nice to say or a question to ask that other people can help with. Sniping is a waste of bandwidth and everyone's time. Katherine ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 18:33:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LMXMus014358 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:33:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LMX5r4029917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:33:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LMX36v022352; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:33:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LMWuZI022220 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:33:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADDF55F935 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:05:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050921144418.036ab5f0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:01:31 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Kilcommon Jacket 2 last questions In-Reply-To: <20050921161046.54493.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200509140022.j8E0KBZs087376@net.indra.com> <20050921161046.54493.qmail@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:10 AM 9/21/2005, you wrote: >Thank you to everyone that responded. It was very >helpful. One last question on this topic... > >Wool or Linen? Wool is my suggestion. Lined in linen or cotton. >I did buy a nice 'homespun' cotton that has a nice >texture and feel and resembles linen, but it will need >some type of crisp lining. I have regular interfacing >- not the fusible kind - and was thinking of layering >that between the cotton and some sort of lining >fabric. Certainly not accurate, but I thought it might >be a nice look for the wedding. It would depend on how thick and "homespun" it looks to you. If you like it, then use it. As for interfacing, regular sew-in kind is what I use (I am not fond of how fusibles don't hold up as well), with tailor's hair canvas (if you can find it) or additional regular interfacing added in any stress areas, like a small strip along the front edge and neck, and along the bottom to support the pleats. >Make that two questions - > >we are considering the 'embroidered' embellishments >similar to those shown in the woodcuts, but tone on >tone. How is this to be done - before assembling the >pieces or after the jacket is done? And how to keep >the fabric smooth and taut enough to accomplish this >so it looks nice? My 'needlework' experiece is limited >to what fits in a hoop or on a stretcher. Either can work, although it is easier to do so before the jacket is assembled. First wash and dry your fabric. Make a cartoon (outline of the embroidery) on a copy of the pattern pieces you are going to work, so you know where to place things. Then transfer the cartoon onto the fabric and cut out the fabric with very wide margins (2-3") or as a rectangle (works better). Do not actually cut out the pattern piece yet, things can shrink a little while being embroidered. Put the piece of material in a stretcher (better than a hoop, but a hoop can work), do your embroidery work, take it off the stretcher, lightly wash the fabric if there are transfer marks remaining, dry & press on the wrong side with a towel underneath the fabric (so you don't flatten the embroidery), then cut out the pattern piece and make up the jacket. You can also embroidery a lightweight fabric, and add that on as an applique onto the back of the jacket. That is period, and those were called "slips" by the English. The upper classes would do slips in linen, cut the pieces out, and sew the slips onto velvet. I am not as sure if the Celts did the same, but it would make sense to do so if embroidering onto heavy materials like wool or velvet. >Thanks again, >Annette M hth, Kimiko Small ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, safety first instead of duty first, a love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life. This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live unless it is a good place for all of us to live." ~ Teddy Roosevelt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 18:56:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LMu4mL014652 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:56:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LMtYj6032949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:55:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LMtQHs037783; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:55:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LMtMeb037742 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:55:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTBV4QA1M88YY0J6@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:55:19 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTBV4PVE76971CJW@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:55:19 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:55:24 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-reply-to: <8296995c05092115326d7347a4@mail.gmail.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <4331E4DC.9020506@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <20050921211601.54300.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4331D7BB.90108@paradise.net.nz> <8296995c05092115326d7347a4@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lynn Downward wrote: > So, Adele, what did that famous monk Georgeus Gershwinus say? My Latin > is nonexistant. > > I've got rhythm - I've got music. I've got my man. Who could ask for anything more? -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 19:12:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LNCk93014858 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:12:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LNCJl0035257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:12:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LNCJph049261; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:12:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LNCE0h049179 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:12:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:12:09 -0700 Message-ID: <4331E8CE.6000601@msn.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:12:14 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" References: <1e3.4479a8b8.30630c1e@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1e3.4479a8b8.30630c1e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2005 23:12:09.0232 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4141100:01C5BF01] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >I am. But don't take it too personally. > > Why would I take it personally? Sounds like it's your problem. > >The "no one will notice" argument is one of my pet peeves. >There, end of rant. It's not personal...but nix the "No one will know" rap > You are either not understanding what I am saying, or are mis-representing it. It isn't that no one will notice, or know the difference. It is a matter of how many people will notice, and for how many people it will be a detraction. Is your one opinion (or another few) worth so much more than the rest of the 299? The economic answer is "no." > >As far as expense....after a certain professional level...if you don't have >the bucks, then don't do it....The problem with your $$$$ argument is that most lousy costuming has nothing >to do with budget in the major motion picture and TV industry. > This argument is myopic. A film production can't afford to be historically accurate in every way, and there is an self-imagined "expert" for every aspect. I think for instance of: period armor, weaponry, carriages, saddlery, tack, furniture, food presentation, livestock, geography etc. One could go on and on. Do you really think it would be better to have none at all if it can't be perfectly accurate in every way? I don't. A film, even a drama, can be educational without being historically accurate in every way. Maybe this film won't be the best example of that, but again, I think of another production. There is a German film production of "Luther" which is staged entirely in old church. The stage is set up in such a way that it represents everything from Luther's private home to the Vatican in Rome, to a mill where many people were slaughtered and hung. Is it entirely accurate?-obviously not-but effective and educational-yes. BTW-the costuming isn't perfect in that flick either. I'm done. Since we are being accused of sniping it is time to take any further discussions off-list. Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 19:20:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LNKDIR014979 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:20:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LNJmUU036149 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:19:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LNJluJ054036; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:19:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LNJi5v053959 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:19:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s15so334140wxc for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=euV1QhA+1hI9eqST6bE0WtCecrcgHU1f4IUyFOoGgVOMQGGZCIWB1sI4l/7aFdQZWaYt9TkeHuiUL7qLwT14VSgfS778F5kt5JYaGkS//NMih3ibrIxgwA8ktafiqEPIr8uCwmmIJfAOEF8AgzjfYMvmBWX0P+qAbPwp6rR2ILs= Received: by 10.70.104.7 with SMTP id b7mr2824543wxc; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.31.10 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05092116197f3ef295@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:19:38 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" In-Reply-To: <4331E4DC.9020506@paradise.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050921211601.54300.qmail@web25710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <4331D7BB.90108@paradise.net.nz> <8296995c05092115326d7347a4@mail.gmail.com> <4331E4DC.9020506@paradise.net.nz> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8LNJi5v053959 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO of course. LynnD Covering my face in embarassment. Now I know what it means, it's obvious. On 9/21/05, Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Lynn Downward wrote: > > So, Adele, what did that famous monk Georgeus Gershwinus say? My Latin > > is nonexistant. > > > > > I've got rhythm - I've got music. > I've got my man. Who could ask for anything more? > > -- > Adele de Maisieres > > ----------------------------- > Habeo metrum - musicamque, > hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? > -Georgeus Gershwinus > ----------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 19:40:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8LNee11015218 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:40:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8LNdslT038536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:39:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8LNdoEU066264; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:39:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.175]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8LNdluY066189 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:39:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 94553 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Sep 2005 23:39:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=1ukBnykqbuqf03Ryas9Z1Ab1Dg9lURfI4RZBYqKoR0AuTjDodEMej0KiFUMGncux+iF3GhJ/XGmjqfGjxjKV+XQ/7Tr6ST65MjKiHdZ6vyJ0aM8qU7UKMviqgpy517qIu0yJc2Ql1YQUi+XVsi84AdDo6r9MM1CUg3Awv8VwgAM= ; Message-ID: <20050921233941.94551.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:39:41 BST Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:39:41 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders Subject: Re: [h-cost] ... "Elizabeth" : quotes from article & designer info To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi all I'm unable to track down an online copy of Mr Starkey's article in the British TV paper Radio Times, so thought it would be useful to give more info on what he actually wrote. He was flown over to Lithuania to watch filming - he's a nippy sweety historian who is pretty good at lecturing to camera, but nothing like the class of Kenneth Clark - and raves on about the 1/3 and full scale reproductions of Whitehall Palace constructed with guidance from Simon Thurley, head of English Heritage and ' "the" great expert on Tudor palaces' after pointing out they film in Lithuania because it's cheap. Then we get onto costume. "Where I think this film is really going to score, though, is in the attention to costume. This is not the usual Hollywood version of the Tudors, not the standard stuff. In the 16th century, costume wasn't as we take it for granted now. In, say, a dress, the sleeves were separate, the skirt was separate and the whole thing was held together by a series of ties or aglets (a type of super-safety pin of gold and silver). I asked to watch the actors being dressed, and the textures, the colours and the shapes were all extremely well done; several costumes were entirely authentic." The period of Elizabeth's life is covered (from Armada to death) next and praises the writing, saying it is a formal style without the "horrors of" prithee and forsooth, before detailing the process of hanging, drawing and quartering which we will get to see in full. Yay. There is also a little box called "Spot the Deliberate Mistake: David Starkey explains why, sometimes, artistic license is better for drama than authenticity..." He points out that even shakespeare messed about with facts for the purpose of his drama and concludes "This drama is particularly dangerous because it will look so real". We also have Elizabeth meeting Queen Mary (of Scotland) and King James VI/I, her successor, people sitting and wearing hats in the royal presence and Elizabeth comforting Leicester as he dies (although who could resist an ailing Mr Irons?). All in all I think the article and perhaps the programme will be a mixed bag - I will be keen to see the rest of the costumes, designed by Mike O'Neill (who did Prime Suspect, David Copperfield (1999), Charles II (2004?), Our Mutual Friend, Daniel Deronda and North and South. Obviously the BBC period person du jour. http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/charles/backstage/costume_designer.shtml gives some insight into his process. Mr O'Neill is shown looking at a short bejwelled bodice 'bought in Rome' for Helen Mirren. Mr Starkey was also very impressed with his research (photograph of large white folder). I'm not knowledgeable enough to spot the small things but I'd be delighted if someone could give me examples of a princess seam on an Elizabethan bodice - it shouts to me of inappropriate corseting, my pet peeve. HTH, Katherine, who's sure the show will migrate to our American cousins quite soon. ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 20:01:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8M01gCO015454 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:01:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M01FTL040915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:01:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M01DdI078046; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:01:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M01Ak0077936 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:01:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.15c.59287692 (3890) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:00:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.59287692.30634e33@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:00:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/2005 7:15:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wickedfrau@msn.com writes: Since we are being accused of sniping it is time to take any further discussions off-list. We're not snipping. Anyway....much of what you say is quite right....Practically all of it. We really don't disagree. It's that "Elizabeth" context...which was inaccurate for no reason really. We both agree that accuracy is no guarantee of anything...and indeed impossible. Not even a film like "Dangerous Liaisons" is accurate, but it strives for a type of accuracy. What it is is completely convincing. Perhaps "convincing" is a better criteria to follow. It's that "no one will know" thingie that starts me off... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 20:50:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8M0oOsU016005 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:50:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M0nlki047942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:49:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M0nkF3002978; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:49:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M0nfa8002902 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:49:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from MaddNancy@aol.com) Received: from MaddNancy@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.54.4cfe9c72 (4238) for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: MaddNancy@aol.com Message-ID: <54.4cfe9c72.3063599d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:49:33 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Last year we had discussed the dress of Eleanora of Toledo that was on display in Memphis. I wasn't sure if the link to the picture on the web had been posted, so it is listed below. This picture is much better than the one in the catalog. http://www.wonders.org/masters8.htm Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 21:24:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8M1O0xQ016354 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:24:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M1NTs6052686 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:23:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M1NO5f018717; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:23:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M1NJPv018625 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:23:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.194]) by mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050922012314.UFBA2946.mta207-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:23:14 +1200 Received: from michaela ([219.89.161.241]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050922012313.WODE1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:23:13 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.3]); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:23:17 +1200 Message-ID: <00a601c5bf14$35cf5b00$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c5.30d7dad2.3062f262@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] curved seams A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:23:17 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I would bet my paycheck that if we can find > shaping seams in the back of the garment, then we could probably find > them in at least one example in the front. And again, in a large scale > production, where many gowns are being made, fitting that type of > garment _is_ faster and easier. There is evidence of curved side front seams that go into the armpts for doublet bodices. The extant jerkin in the Met, I have the pattern from Blanche Payne's book, first ed. History of costume has just such seams. The same placment is seen here: http://www.vertetsable.com/research_b181.htm http://www.vertetsable.com/research_burguen.htm Although it's not curved. I suspect the curving in the jerkin is from the finetuning of the piece to fit to shape. The main thing is they are shaping for a conical body so are gently curved rather than curved to shape the bust. The very very shallow curve worked well for me and my Valois bodice. But I'm sure someone with a larger bust would need a rounder curve. Isn't there a curved seam in one of Jean Hunnisett's patterns as well? I can never remember which portrait it was inspired by, but it was a doublet bodice. There was the option of a very curved seam or a fish from centre front to bust point michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 20/09/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 21:40:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8M1es2q016559 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:40:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M1eGRQ053902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:40:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M1eEXL026447; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:40:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M1eAmt026418 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:40:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE23F16755 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050921183230.0362fb88@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:40:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small In-Reply-To: <11438476.1127337120650.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa. earthlink.net> References: <11438476.1127337120650.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth") X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 02:12 PM 9/21/2005, you wrote: >I have no idea how many people came away thinking that Sir Francis >Walsingham actually _did_ go to Scotland and murder Mary of Guise after >sleeping with her (or whatever it was the movie said he did) -- when in >fact I don't think he was ever _in_ Scotland. That was the most annoying part of the movie to my mind, among the many annoying parts of the movie. I know the history from the Scottish side of things, and I just about screamed in the theatre when I saw it. I even bought the DVD and I still can't bring myself to watch the darn thing, even tho I loved seeing the costumes (accurate or otherwise). Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 22:33:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8M2XGp3017168 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:33:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M2Rcq8058915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:27:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M2RZ1c050053; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:27:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M2RVpg049971 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:27:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0IN700I3Y5HOWB30@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:27:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:27:22 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress In-reply-to: <54.4cfe9c72.3063599d@aol.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Maddalena (Nancy) --- Actually I have the catalog from the Memphis show and a book on Eleonora that shows this. Also saw it in a slide at a lecture given by Janet Cox-Rearick (16th C costume / painting goddess). Great dress. MIGHT have been one of the dresses from her ladies in waiting. Maybe from the Ducal Entrance after the victory over Siena...Very cool. Thanks for thinking about me!!! I am on PG. 311 on the manuscript of the book on Eleonora/Cosimo. Probabby at least 200 to go.... Be well. Coronation is on Saturday and I an Chief- Lady -in -Waiting to the incoming Royals, Darious and Roxane. How do I get into these things? :-) (They are really really great folks!) Take Care-- Love- Monica / Catriona -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of MaddNancy@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:50 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress Last year we had discussed the dress of Eleanora of Toledo that was on display in Memphis. I wasn't sure if the link to the picture on the web had been posted, so it is listed below. This picture is much better than the one in the catalog. http://www.wonders.org/masters8.htm Nancy Stengel Ulmer _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 21 22:53:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8M2rGpV017398 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:53:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M2pSsn061699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:51:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M2pJH7061730; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:51:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ultra7.eskimo.com (IDENT:root@ultra7.eskimo.com [204.122.16.70]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M2pGln061700 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:51:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from judymitch@oldwaylane.net) Received: from [4.249.165.5] (dialup-4.249.165.5.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net [4.249.165.5]) by ultra7.eskimo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M2p6rs005203 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:51:07 -0700 Message-ID: <43321C5C.3040206@oldwaylane.net> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:52:12 -0400 From: Judy Mitchell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041217 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] re: making a fan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cin wrote: >Cool site! Thanks for the tip, Judy. > yeah, 'this to that' can be a very helpful site when you're trying to glue oddball stuff. > It's been a long time since we >met at Costume Con RI, whatcha working on these days? > Oh my list keeps growing and changing. I'm a good bit through a GFD, but it had to go on hold (I need to do the eyelets and set the neck/shoulder seam and the sleeves) to finish some stuff on deadline. I had to do a RennFaire shirt for a guy I know - had a lot of trouble with the fabric (cotton sateen) and ended up buying completely different fabric for it. Made a great media recreation costume for a friend: a graphic novel character called 'Dawn', the artists is thrilled and says I totally nailed the outfit. I'm glad, I spend a year on that puppy! Now I'm working on a Regency outfit - cutting up a sari, and working on two costumes for next CC competitions. I went to Sweden last spring to research at the museums for one of them. Now trying to get the handcrank sewing machine to work for more than 20min! but, it will get there. Also found a pile of Danish kroner left over from my last research trip... seems to mean to me that I should go back to Denmark (what a shame!) . And of course still working on the Lord of the Rings Costume site. So I'm keeping busy. If only work didn't get in the way of the sewing So what have you been working on? -Judy _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 00:06:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8M46HC9018302 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:06:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8M45Fmu086954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:05:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M4503Q095080; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:05:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M44u63095039 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:04:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EIIKN19Bj-0004da; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:04:55 -0400 Message-ID: <003501c5bf2a$cda63280$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:05:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Looking for Franchesca X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8M46HC9018302 Status: RO Can Franchesca Havas please write me off-list. I am sorry to write on the list but I have her email wrong address. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 08:07:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MC7903022747 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:07:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MC6HT1027625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 06:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MC6GQW083153; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 06:06:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MC6DJb083104 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 06:06:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AE2E03A8; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:06:06 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.147 ([209.131.80.147] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 22 Sep 05 12:05:59 -0000 Message-ID: <002001c5bf6e$7958d5e0$935083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509211254.j8LCpBt9082828@net.indra.com> <8C78CD95C87CC91-DB8-884A@FWM-R40.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:09:22 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is plainly 20thC American, from my point of view. As someone has already pointed out, the vision of Santa differs from culture to culture. The Nast version is the first that I am aware of, which is influenced by the description given in the "Night Before Christmas"(as it is now known) Are you aware of the Dover issue that presents a collection of Santas and farther Christmas? This source might be a starting point in creating the view of Santa you are looking for. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 > Thanks for your responses. I think we're getting somewhere, but let me rephrase my question. What I'm really wondering is, if I wanted to make a costume like this one: http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > and call it historical, where would I go to document it? Who would have worn something like that in real life? Victorian isn't my period, but I don't recall ever seeing anybody dress like that in my brief studies of that century. Is it a Victorian or 20th Century confabulation of some earlier period? Or is it some kind of 19th Century Dutch costume? Does anyone have any pictures of a real person wearing a similar costume, maybe in some other color or without the fur trim? Nast seems to have dressed him in clothes derived from his own period, though possibly a little fantasized, but did the Coca-Cola artist make up the traditional costume or did he derive it from earlier drawings? > > Tea Rose > > P.S. I think I'll go look up that WonderWorker book; thanks for the reference. I know there are all kinds of Santas these days, which is why I don't feel compelled to do the traditional suit, but I'm curious about where the traditional suit came from. > > ============================== > From: "Abel, Cynthia" > > I don't think all of Nast's Santa's wore a red > outfit, but just about all the images I recall usually show him in a > practical winter weather two-piece fur-trimmed suit, suited for a jolly > old elf" and a stocking cap. > > If I remember correctly, this Claus was derived more from the slightly Protestanized Dutch Sinter Claaus, than St. Nicholas. > > A great big very well-fed guy in a cheery and > confident color red with grandfatherly white beard and whiskers was just > the visual ticket to lift the economically stressed consumer. > > Amazon.com has Wonderworker: the history of Santa Claus, > which has a pic of one of Thomas Nast's Santa's on the cover--with a > very present-day politically incorrect pipe between his lips! > > From: Dawn > > http://www.dovercards.com/_images/0486236609_46_Thomas%2520Nast_Santa%2520at%2520Chimney.jpg > > This is a Nast Santa, and it looks like he's in longjohns. > > http://www.sonofthesouth.net/Thomas_Nast/Original_Santa_Claus.jpg > > Another Nast Santa, from 1865, he's in striped pants, a fur lined jacket > with stars on it, and some kind of cap, but it still doesn't look like > 1865 fashion. The image is heavily political, the stars and stripes are > obviously iconic. > > http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > > This is a Coca-Cola Santa from 1954... and you're right. What the heck > is the suit supposed to be? It's not a 1954 men's fashion, is it? > > And why red? > > Dawn > > From: "Kate Pinner" > > 1822 -- Clement Moore -- "A Visit From Saint Nicholas". > This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he was dressed (a picture > in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from there. Before that, > I don't think there was a clear image of him that someone could identify > immediately by some specific article of clothing...at least in the US. > Kate > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 09:05:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MD5Wv0023564 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:05:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MD4tdN032718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:04:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MD4r4U006917; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:04:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail7.tpgi.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M7UWS4083454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:30:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-212-133-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.212.133]) by mail7.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8M7UUPq017742 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:30:31 +1000 Message-ID: <004501c5bf47$537532a0$85d4f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509191808.j8JI7VX1052657@net.indra.com> <6.2.0.14.0.20050919114440.02041488@ipostoffice.worldnet.att.net> <6.2.3.4.0.20050920014536.01c1f700@pop-server.mn.rr.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050920093853.01d38ed0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:29:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Have you ever read Hunnisett's explanation of the costs asscoiated with > making the Ditchley gown for the Elizabeth R series? Why does every > production of anything having to do with history have to be "perfectly > accurate" down to the seams? Should the have to go "all the way" and > have reproduction everything? Consider the targeted audience. Most > people wouldn't notice any of the detail you speak of. Do your > clients? That anyone is producing history films at all is a boon in my > mind. If absolute costume accuracy were the criteria, all we would ever > see is contemporary films...it would be all that was affordable. > > Just my two cents.... > > Sg but seams are the easiest and cheapest thing to get right, no matter how shoestring your budget is princess seams are no cheaper than a period cut (in fact they would be marginally more expensive as they take up more fabric) I can understand things like substituting synthetics for authentic fabrics, so long as it looks OK on film and for any costume that's not going to be seen close up synthetics will probably be fine. But if there were curved seams going over the bust that will throw off the entire silhouette which is blatantly obvious to everyone, admittedly only a small proportion of the viewers will know it's wrong but if the argument that only a small proportion of the viewers will know that it's wrong is the basis for all the decisions then why try for any base in fact if only a few viewers will know they got it wrong. But the viewers who already know the facts are not the ones to be concerned about, it's the people who are learning history from this film who will take it as fact and be wrong. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 09:11:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MDBNoM023635 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MDAhPb033320 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:10:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MDAgkk009630; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:10:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8M7lbr9090434 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:47:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0422.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.167]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BBF7BE678 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:47:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <43326190.5030701@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:47:28 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Dressing Santa Claus References: <20050921153103.89284.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050921153103.89284.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sinterklaas is also dressed in red and white. Maby they looked at medieval clothes to make him look old, like he lives forever. And added white fur since he comes from the north?pole. Kahlara wrote: >I don't know how accurate this is, but I had always >been told that prior to the Moore/Nast (American) idea >of St. Nick's appearance, that many countries/ethnic >groups had their own version of St. Nicholas or some >similar personality (Baba Yaga in Russia?) and each >had their own costume based on how they were portrayed >in the stories. If I remember correctly, Sinter Claaus >wears a bishop's costume, complete with mitre and >staff and rides a white horse. > >Annette M > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 09:59:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MDxDbU024271 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:59:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MDwij8044589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:58:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MDwceT035214; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:58:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MDwQu9035076 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id BBBFD47FEE5 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:58:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <005101c5bf7d$b8d41090$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:58:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A New Programme X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi the list, Folowed your thread, but just want to add my 2 cents here even if it is a little painfull to hear! First people dont have the eyes of experts. They dont see that the sleave is curved or not!- period This is the way things are, you just have to realise that. It is only us costume freaks who notice these things!! You should be glad that they bother to send something about Elizabeth at all. Here in Denmark, we have no history, we have 3-4 channels to choose from, and neither of them bothers to tell any history at all. Dont know what have become of us, that we dont bother, tragedy-tragedy Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:02:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ME2IZ2024331 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:02:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ME1o5h045627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ME1nEn037494; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MDxadw035776 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:59:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C4DF547FE3B for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:59:31 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006001c5bf7d$e1195c40$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a8.3f7bf1c7.30632fca@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:59:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excatly my words............... Bjarne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" > > In a message dated 9/21/2005 5:17:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > claning@igc.org writes: > > What particularly infuriates me, personally, is when something is grossly > inaccurate when doing it accurately would _NOT_ have been any more > expensive > or difficult. And all it would have taken to do it right would be ten > minutes' > worth of asking around among people who actually do know. > > > > > ***************** > > Or the costume designer thinks he's a fashion designer who can make up > whatever he wants and then put it on Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart....or > whomever. A > costume designer's job is not the same as a fashion designer's. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:07:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ME7VM7024361 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ME7CuI047240 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:07:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ME6xx8040885; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:07:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ME6kRg040758 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2089D5EE0E8 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:06:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:06:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Why is it that America has such a great market for 18th century reenacters and not so many of 18th century? I have no clues, could anybody enlighten me? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:19:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MEJd18024534 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:19:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MEIfsd051324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:18:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEIbwg048186; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:18:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEIVaS048094 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:18:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C7DD2628B2 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:18:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:18:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not so many 18th century? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:06 PM Subject: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? > Why is it that America has such a great market for 18th century reenacters > and not so many of 18th century? > I have no clues, could anybody enlighten me? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:22:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MEMN0Z024566 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:22:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MELrqs051634 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:21:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MELkur050085; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:21:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (cardassian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.18]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEKN8b049172 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:20:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0422.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.167]) by cardassian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60AB0BE90D for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:20:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <43329549.90304@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:28:09 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Mmmmm... Gold rush? I think they just love the colour of gold. And there is a lot more gold in 16th century dresses than in 18 thcentury dresses. :-) :-D ;-) :-P Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Why is it that America has such a great market for 18th century > reenacters and not so many of 18th century? > I have no clues, could anybody enlighten me? > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:28:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MES0xL024622 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:28:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MERXZS052219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:27:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MERWpJ053801; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:27:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEROUN053700 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:27:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8MELajf016064 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:21:36 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:27:22 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! > > I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not > so many 18th century? The American RenFaires are mostly very fluffy. Lots of flashy clothes, stage magic, selling of pretty things, and not so much history. They make a fair amount of money for the organizers, and the few historic elements are often provided by really dedicated volunteers who get paid nothing, and who are not a big part of the experience for most of the attendees. It's an experience of its own, really, not related to re-enactment. I expect the 18th century is too close in time to be myth'ed up like that and sell well to the general public. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:32:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MEWovf024731 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:32:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MEV0Er053409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:31:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEV0Cm056282; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:31:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEUuM6056217 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:30:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 08C9926287C for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00ae01c5bf82$45a96430$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:31:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] hinged pannier X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO First all! i am sorry if i misspell pannier, is it panier? You make very interresting points my ladies with this only rare hinged pannier. I have ben thinking that this pair of pannier was the example of how they did, when they needed to be more flexible, and suddently invented the hip panniers. Could it not be an (in between pannier and hip pannier thingy?) You know even if it is the only version, could not be the reason to discharge it. Hip panniers could also be very wide, and not the poor examples found in the patterns of fashion and corsets and crinolines. But this is not to the knolledge of many people. In Denmark we have several examples of wide hip panniers, at the National Museum and also at the Museum of Decoratif Arts. These were much more flexible and could be lifted up under your arms, sitting at tables and getting trough doorways, As time goes by, we shall know much more! Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:34:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MEYM4M024751 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:34:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MEY1Ig054434 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEXug2058166; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:33:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEXXT2057931 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:33:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C5B3F5EE0A5 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:33:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00bb01c5bf82$a34c0890$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <43329549.90304@kabelfoon.nl> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:33:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gold rush it is§ :-) I like silk the better! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? > Mmmmm... > Gold rush? > I think they just love the colour of gold. > And there is a lot more gold in 16th century dresses than in 18 thcentury > dresses. > :-) :-D ;-) :-P > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Why is it that America has such a great market for 18th century >> reenacters and not so many of 18th century? >> I have no clues, could anybody enlighten me? >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:45:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MEjkBn024895 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:45:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MEj1L1058092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:45:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEisjE065347; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:44:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MEijes065206 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail24.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.164]) by smtpout02.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBVFS2YAJAG9GA for (sender ); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail24.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K5HTMTQ2; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:42:39 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail24.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:41:56 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:41:56 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Message-Id: <20050922.074239.12727.556366@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 2:2:809625656 X-MAIL-INFO: 286891899169c51c69c59c09c59c3da875f5a9acd1d9f548adccd1c848b1881848b5c1dc686d68595d9cf1c56809 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7yA8M3ec39oDYKTuL33RM3tSDb22USsuKw== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.164|webmail24.nyc.untd.com|outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that it depends on where in the US you are. We've got a big country here. In the Eastern/Midwestern part of the US, Revolutionary War re-enactment is relatively big. I got my start with the NorthWest Territory Alliance (NWTA) back in the 1970's when the Bicentennial was happening. 25 years later it's still going strong although I participate only occasionally. There's also a pretty big Voyageur (French traders and explorers associated with canoes) reenactment contingent as well as general 'Fur Trade' reenactment with black powder weapons being their focus. Unlike the European 18th century, much of North America was a frontier so we don't tend to do the beautiful, elegant costumes such as you make, Bjarne. I'm not saying that they didn't exist, but our reeneactments tend to focus on a much rougher segment of the population. Karen Seamstrix -- Cynthia Virtue wrote: Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! > > I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not > so many 18th century? The American RenFaires are mostly very fluffy. Lots of flashy clothes, stage magic, selling of pretty things, and not so much history. They make a fair amount of money for the organizers, and the few historic elements are often provided by really dedicated volunteers who get paid nothing, and who are not a big part of the experience for most of the attendees. It's an experience of its own, really, not related to re-enactment. I expect the 18th century is too close in time to be myth'ed up like that and sell well to the general public. cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:47:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MEl1MW024924 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:47:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MEkMwx058215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEkM8j066289; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:46:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vhost1.itasca.net (IDENT:HNiExO12csSb62QeDFCZd3rLHLvB/DDH@vhost1.itasca.net [12.157.198.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEkIdq066246 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:46:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from apache@vhost1.itasca.net) Received: from apache by vhost1.itasca.net with local (Exim 4.42 and XAMS 0.0.13) id 1EISL3-00047c-Nf for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:46:17 -0500 Received: from riviera.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (riviera.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov [130.14.21.247]) by vhost1.itasca.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:46:17 -0500 Message-ID: <1127400377.4332c3b9a0d82@vhost1.itasca.net> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:46:17 -0500 From: Ynes Garcia To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2-cvs X-Originating-IP: 130.14.21.247 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are some Revolutionary war reenactors in the US. And then there are places like Colonial Williamsburg (http://www.historicwilliamsburgusa.com), which is a town-sized museum of 18th century life. There is also a lot of reenactment of the American Civil War, 19th century, going on in the US. This one is easier to do because the items to use or reproduce still exist in people's attics. Renaissance faires aren't really re-enactment. They are theater with a historic bent. Some faires are more historic or accurate with their history than others, but they are out there to entertain, not educate, their audience. And therefore they have a lot more advertising and a lot more press. My feeling is that the reenactment groups do it more to educate and entertain themselves than for any audience that might happen to be there. And there's usually a battle involved, too. - Ynes Quoting Bjarne og Leif Drews : > Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! > > I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not so > many 18th century? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:06 PM > Subject: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Ynes Garcia Chatelaine, Barony of Storvik ynes@sskip.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 10:58:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MEw0Xo025037 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MEvagD059567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEvXIN073731; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:57:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MEvNlW073636 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:57:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id C902347FEA1 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:57:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00e601c5bf85$f8bba5d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050922.074239.12727.556366@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:57:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh yes Karen, I think you have a point there, Things in a new country so far from civilisation 3 or 4months away I give up! Its just like i hate another list ia m on called 18th century womens list, and they dont care about fashion at all But i am sure you are righ Good weekend to youIn denmark we say ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? >I think that it depends on where in the US you are. We've got a big country >here. In the Eastern/Midwestern part of the US, Revolutionary War >re-enactment is relatively big. I got my start with the NorthWest Territory >Alliance (NWTA) back in the 1970's when the Bicentennial was happening. 25 >years later it's still going strong although I participate only >occasionally. There's also a pretty big Voyageur (French traders and >explorers associated with canoes) reenactment contingent as well as general >'Fur Trade' reenactment with black powder weapons being their focus. Unlike >the European 18th century, much of North America was a frontier so we don't >tend to do the beautiful, elegant costumes such as you make, Bjarne. I'm >not saying that they didn't exist, but our reeneactments tend to focus on a >much rougher segment of the population. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > > -- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! >> >> I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not >> so many 18th century? > > The American RenFaires are mostly very fluffy. Lots of flashy clothes, > stage magic, selling of pretty things, and not so much history. They > make a fair amount of money for the organizers, and the few historic > elements are often provided by really dedicated volunteers who get paid > nothing, and who are not a big part of the experience for most of the > attendees. > > It's an experience of its own, really, not related to re-enactment. I > expect the 18th century is too close in time to be myth'ed up like that > and sell well to the general public. > > cv > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 11:10:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MFAiUb025198 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:10:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MF9Doq061253 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:09:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MF98Ks081680; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:09:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m23.mx.aol.com (imo-m23.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.4]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MF90Y6081490 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:09:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.208.9f5d424 (4446) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:08:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <208.9f5d424.306422e3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:08:19 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabet... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/21/2005 9:43:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: I still can't bring myself to watch the darn thing, even tho I loved seeing the costumes (accurate or otherwise). Yes, some of the gowns are lov-er-ly. The men's stuff is dreadful! I really hate their outfits. However, while we're on the subject of Mary de Guise....what WAS she wearing????? and who did her hair????? YUK! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 11:11:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MFBVU1025219 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:11:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MFB3bN061505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:11:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFAoMC082889; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:10:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MFARKJ082616 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:10:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBVFUK6AWH35RA for (sender ); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K5HU6DNV; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:09:10 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:07:55 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Message-ID: <20050922.080906.472.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 3:4:1823587463 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgqBiSoyiok3aaXuagMZezrI= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO 18th century for us is recent history. :) to get in touch with our roots, we have to go back to the Old World. arlys in oregon, where the first town was founded around 1860 or so On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:18:21 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! > > I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and > not so > many 18th century? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 11:16:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MFGLdW025304 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:16:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MFFdUK062091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFFIsg086112; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com (outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com [64.136.20.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MFEI05085391 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com (webmail24.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.164]) by smtpout06.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBVFUT5A6MLA52 for (sender ); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by webmail24.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K5HVDWDN; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:13:17 PDT Received: from [24.14.76.2] by webmail24.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:13:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [24.14.76.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "penhalion@juno.com" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:13:14 GMT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? X-Mailer: Webmail Version 3.0 Message-Id: <20050922.081317.12727.556958@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 1:1:3664606274 X-MAIL-INFO: 21caf34fcac3936a736a6aea6a8b8b17baab377e375faa3ade8eaada278acace9797aac393b3fa4f73a3236f2b6f030e4e030e3e430e3e73a3f30baefb8e570bb35f9b8efeb3371b27b37b47ce23be23671f3e2f0e2343 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7yA8M3ec39oDIHu0VYFe5zEyMRGuK8h7Ng== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.164|webmail24.nyc.untd.com|outbound21-sr.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There's a big general 18th century reenactment coming up this weekend in Indiana. It's called a Rendezvous from the French 'to come together'. It was an annual gathering of traders and merchants on the frontier. It was also a really big party! http://www.tcha.mus.in.us/feast.htm Karen Seamstrix -- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: Oh yes Karen, I think you have a point there, Things in a new country so far from civilisation 3 or 4months away I give up! Its just like i hate another list ia m on called 18th century womens list, and they dont care about fashion at all But i am sure you are righ Good weekend to youIn denmark we say ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? >I think that it depends on where in the US you are. We've got a big country >here. In the Eastern/Midwestern part of the US, Revolutionary War >re-enactment is relatively big. I got my start with the NorthWest Territory >Alliance (NWTA) back in the 1970's when the Bicentennial was happening. 25 >years later it's still going strong although I participate only >occasionally. There's also a pretty big Voyageur (French traders and >explorers associated with canoes) reenactment contingent as well as general >'Fur Trade' reenactment with black powder weapons being their focus. Unlike >the European 18th century, much of North America was a frontier so we don't >tend to do the beautiful, elegant costumes such as you make, Bjarne. I'm >not saying that they didn't exist, but our reeneactments tend to focus on a >much rougher segment of the population. > > > Karen > Seamstrix > > -- Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! >> >> I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not >> so many 18th century? > > The American RenFaires are mostly very fluffy. Lots of flashy clothes, > stage magic, selling of pretty things, and not so much history. They > make a fair amount of money for the organizers, and the few historic > elements are often provided by really dedicated volunteers who get paid > nothing, and who are not a big part of the experience for most of the > attendees. > > It's an experience of its own, really, not related to re-enactment. I > expect the 18th century is too close in time to be myth'ed up like that > and sell well to the general public. > > cv > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 11:25:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MFPqUM025490 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:25:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MFP4dj063318 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:25:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFP0ao093489; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:25:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFOlMY093276 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:24:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.82.30fb5232 (4446) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:24:38 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <82.30fb5232.306426b5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:24:37 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2005 10:30:32 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cvirtue+dated+1142950896.7b47ea@thibault.org writes: The American RenFaires are mostly very fluffy. Lots of flashy clothes, stage magic, selling of pretty things, and not so much history. ************************** Yes the Renn thing is not historical...though of course we over here do have a Renn history. I live in NC where the 1st English colony landed....and then disappeared [the Lost Colony]. Sir Walter Raleigh's little adventure, which is why the capital of NC is named Raleigh. And there are tons of Colonial towns and battlefields on the East Coast because of the Revolutionary War so there is actually more 18th century reenacting than you might think. But that is HISTORY and politics...Founding Fathers and all....so naturally it is kinda rejected by American culture because you might actually learn something! The 19th century on the other hand... Whoa! The Civil War [in the south east]and the Gold Rush [out west] are extensively covered....even if it is history. I suspect the Gold Rush is alluring because it embodies that pioneer spirit mixed with greed we Americans seem to revere. The Civil War is practically re-fought every year because there are those in the South still trying to win it :P _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 11:32:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MFWDst025574 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:32:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MFVfYp064225 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:31:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFKalW090182; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:20:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFJvjA089530 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:20:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5082E5EE0A0 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:19:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <00fe01c5bf89$1d4d5800$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <208.9f5d424.306422e3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for -"Elizabet... Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:20:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And was she really a worrior ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for -"Elizabet... > > In a message dated 9/21/2005 9:43:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > > I still can't bring myself to watch the darn thing, even > tho I loved seeing the costumes (accurate or otherwise). > > > > Yes, some of the gowns are lov-er-ly. The men's stuff is dreadful! I > really > hate their outfits. > > However, while we're on the subject of Mary de Guise....what WAS she > wearing????? and who did her hair????? YUK! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 11:35:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MFZfZs025629 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:35:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MFZMem064670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:35:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFZEbg001126; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:35:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f35.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.45]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFZ53r000858 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:35:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:34:52 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:34:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509221500.j8MEvccq073793@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:34:52 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2005 15:34:52.0494 (UTC) FILETIME=[2CEBD6E0:01C5BF8B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is an interesting twist here that hasn't been mentioned yet. Bjarne asked why the Renaissance and not the 18th century, and the answers have all been about renn fairs. There are other groups that do “renaissance” (particularly if we expand that to the pseudo-renn fantasy thingie) than just the renn fair folks. There are a large number of SCA people (some of whom are quite serious), for instance. I am assuming that we are meaning 16th century for “renaissance” even though Renaissance actually covers a huge amount of mutually conflicting eras and regions, starting in 13th century Italy. There are a lot of other late 16th century groups, like the trained bands and whatnot. We even have English Civil War folk, which moves us well into the 17th century. That’s without going into the “Medieval” and fantasy medieval people or earlier. In the 18th century, there are a lot of American Revolution and French and Indian War re-enactors on the east coast. But because there were so few of those things that took place west of the Appalachians, the rest of the country has to look at other things if we want to re-enact. American Civil War, not my thing personally, but it’s good for a lot of folks – but here in Oklahoma, we only have two civil war battles that we can re-enact locally (well one battle and a minor skirmish). That leaves “Buckskinning” (which does seem to stretch back into the late 18th century), or a lot of Old West sorts of things. We have a lot of that going on around here (and some of it is excellent), but not everyone really wants to do that sort of history. Particularly since not all of that history is, um, pleasant (for some reason we just don’t have a lot of Coronado re-enacting around here – or Indian Wars …weird…) So those people will tend to look back towards a more romantic part of our past and want to go for that. Me, personally, I prefer late 16th century/early 17th to the 18th century because I like the shoes better :) Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 11:53:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MFrrrA025805 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:53:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MFqPFN066970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:52:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFpkKn013571; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:51:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepa.post.tele.dk (pfepa.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.235]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFpYZq013389 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:51:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepa.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id A7F4F47FE01 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:51:11 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001c01c5bf8d$8007b590$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:51:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Me, personally, I prefer late 16th century/early 17th to the 18th century because I like the shoes better :) Marc 1680 ies fashhionable shoes are definately very sexy and beautifull for mens wear. With red heals Love the full bottoned wigs with rich curls two and the cravattes and all the sewed button holes. You must be a tall person to be fashhionablle in this and gurlish in your manners Love the draughtmans contrakt or whatever it is called, Erased this by accident on my taperecorder grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Love the exageration of costumes, but only experts know this apropos a programme to watch out for! Bjarne, who is very happy to be back on the list, and takes the train tomorrow for the swedes gustavians answer to petite trianon at Beatelund party..... Pictures next week Bjarne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 12:00:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MG0sor025916 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:00:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MFwvgT067755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:58:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFupK9017355; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:57:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFrcLs014981 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:53:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24754.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.84]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CECE262845 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:53:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002301c5bf8d$d69ffbb0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: "Historical Costume" References: <208.9f5d424.306422e3@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for -"Elizabet... Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:53:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And was she really a female warrior? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for -"Elizabet... > > In a message dated 9/21/2005 9:43:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > kimiko@kimiko1.com writes: > > I still can't bring myself to watch the darn thing, even > tho I loved seeing the costumes (accurate or otherwise). > > > > Yes, some of the gowns are lov-er-ly. The men's stuff is dreadful! I > really > hate their outfits. > > However, while we're on the subject of Mary de Guise....what WAS she > wearing????? and who did her hair????? YUK! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 12:05:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MG5wVq025950 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MG5PYi068703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:05:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MG4wwE023318; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:04:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MG4dwC023066 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:04:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ruthanneb@mindspring.com) Received: from mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.25]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EITYo-0005II-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:04:34 -0400 Message-ID: <32713132.1127405074010.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:04:33 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: ruthanneb@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8MG4dwC023066 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think we in the U.S. may also have an actual TRADITION of Ren faires, whereas reenactments of our own country's history are a more recent phenomenon. According to James D. Hart's THE POPULAR BOOK: A HISTORY OF AMERICA'S LITERARY TASTE (University of California Press, 1950), the novels of Sir Walter Scott were wildly popular with American readers. They were adapted into plays (Ivanhoe in 1820 and within the next twelve years six more of his novels and two of his poems), and the Gothic settings of his novels influenced architecture and landscape design especially in the American South. According to Hart, "Although only four or five of Scott's novels dealth with the Middle Ages, the South thought of him as the romancer of chivalry. When he died the Louisiana Courier asked sadly, 'Who shall now depict the feudal castle--the time worn turret--the feats of warrior knights--the conflicts of the tournaments--the battles against the infidels?'... the Southern patricians enjoyed a kind of juvenile imitation of [these events] in the tournaments they instituted in the 1840s. Nothing quite like their tilting with lances at a suspended! ring was to be found in Scott's pages but the spirit of the contest was his. A South Carolina newspaper announced one as copying 'closely in dresses and arrangements...those that Ivanhoe withnessed'; contestants frequently took such titles as Waverly, Ivanhoe, The Disinherited Knight, and Peveril of the Peak...and the affairs were furbished with Queens of Honour, pseudo-medieval costume, and all the other trappings of romance identified with a Scott tourney....Scott was influential because his fiction was in accord with the region's general attitude of mind...." And since the medieval world was heavily fantasized in Scott's novels, it's easy to see how those tournaments would be celebrations of "Days of Yore" rather than historical reenactments! I suspect that Americans in general secretly wish for the trappings of royalty even if they don't want an actual king! We do have some wonderful reenactment groups and places (in the East, Plimouth Plantation, Colonial Williamsburg, Mystic Seaport, for instance) that do Colonial (1640s to 1770s), Revolutionary, and 19th century, and (to judge from this list) some serious Renaissance groups as well, but the Ren fairs seem to be a different phenomenon altogether, and what Hart has to say suggests that this is the older and deeper attachment. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -----Original Message----- From: Bjarne og Leif Drews Sent: Sep 22, 2005 9:33 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Gold rush it is§ :-) I like silk the better! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deredere Galbraith" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? > Mmmmm... > Gold rush? > I think they just love the colour of gold. > And there is a lot more gold in 16th century dresses than in 18 thcentury > dresses. > :-) :-D ;-) :-P > > > > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Why is it that America has such a great market for 18th century >> reenacters and not so many of 18th century? >> I have no clues, could anybody enlighten me? >> >> Bjarne >> >> >> >> >> >> Leif og Bjarne Drews >> www.my-drewscostumes.dk >> >> http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 12:05:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MG5x8g025951 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:05:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MG1pDX068135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:05:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFnbRj011967; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:49:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MFn4b1011613 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:49:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 98192 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Sep 2005 15:48:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=eVXEeaZ0Ty9wtAh42Xwld/o6Dj3VVOqesGswt0BBKD9GuHup8mfqt+SjfPyZY2FWnghyBhdh//eblQhnM2T+bghy7tp8nE9sgAdMp6u/9m2ts70teE+YIH7M5brR94bZTNR7U8hm4SwKhb3E7I5NDtK54jdDfW5SOwkBr2dgQ0g= ; Message-ID: <20050922154853.98190.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.53.209] by web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:48:53 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:48:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509221500.j8MEvccq073793@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, as someone else said, for the most part the 18th century in North America was far rougher than in Europe. Reenactors and enthusiasts of that time period focus on either the revolution or trapping/frontier exploration as was mentioned by someone else. And much of the country was still unexplored to any great extent. Out here in the Northwest it seems out of place to consider a 're-enactment' group for a period prior to the westward expansion that includes anything but the most utilitarian and rudimentary of period clothing. In my area there is quite an interest in the 'pioneer' era, one town has a park dedicated to preserving the history of the area, including several original log houses that are used for a museum - and it is definitely not 18th century. As to why the Renaissance...Just a conjecture, but I think it has a lot to do with how the Renaissance is viewed as a period of cultural and social development and change that makes it popular. All JMO Annette M --------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:06:55 +0200 From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Subject: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not > so many 18th century? -------------------- I....t's an experience of its own, really, not related to re-enactment. I expect the 18th century is too close in time to be myth'ed up like that and sell well to the general public. cv ------------ I think that it depends on where in the US you are..... Unlike the European 18th century, much of North America was a frontier so we don't tend to do the beautiful, elegant costumes such as you make, Bjarne. I'm not saying that they didn't exist, but our reeneactments tend to focus on a much rougher segment of the population. Karen Seamstrix --------------------------- There are some Revolutionary war reenactors in the US. And then there are places like Colonial Williamsburg (http://www.historicwilliamsburgusa.com), which is a town-sized museum of 18th century life. There is also a lot of reenactment of the American Civil War, 19th century, going on in the US. This one is easier to do because the items to use or reproduce still exist in people's attics. Renaissance faires aren't really re-enactment. They are theater with a historic bent. Some faires are more historic or accurate with their history than others, but they are out there to entertain, not educate, their audience. And therefore they have a lot more advertising and a lot more press. My feeling is that the reenactment groups do it more to educate and entertain themselves than for any audience that might happen to be there. And there's usually a battle involved, too. - Ynes --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 12:06:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MG62CJ025956 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:06:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MG1pDV068135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:05:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFr4n0014550; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:53:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MFqkRg014349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:52:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8MFkxjf016935 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:46:59 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:46:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4332D34C.8080802@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:52:44 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Marc Carlson wrote: > There is an interesting twist here that hasn't been mentioned yet. > Bjarne asked why the Renaissance and not the 18th century, and the > answers have all been about renn fairs. "I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not so many 18th century? " I figured he meant why no 18th century done as Ren-Faires, based on his question. So that's what I answered. RenFaires get most of the press. I went to a local Native American Pow-Wow this past weekend. Do any of you do that activity? It was... probably like the early days of the SCA. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 12:17:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MGHTWX026065 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:17:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MGGKdF070144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:16:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGFoEP031355; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:15:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net (pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net [207.69.200.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGEknl030510 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:15:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from claning@igc.org) Received: from mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.25]) by pop04.mail.atl.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EITif-0000D3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:14:45 -0400 Message-ID: <22812007.1127405685563.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:14:45 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Chris Laning To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >But seams are the easiest and cheapest thing to get right, no matter how >shoestring your budget is princess seams are no cheaper than a period cut >(in fact they would be marginally more expensive as they take up more >fabric) I can understand things like substituting synthetics for authentic >fabrics, so long as it looks OK on film and for any costume that's not going >to be seen close up synthetics will probably be fine. But if there were >curved seams going over the bust that will throw off the entire silhouette... My guess would be that the biggest reason for inaccurate costumes is simply that it's easier for costumers to make something familiar. If their experience is entirely with modern cuts and fitting, those techniques are going to seem "easier" to them because there's nothing to learn -- whether they are, in fact, easier or not. And if they're in a hurry, or under pressure (as who in the industry isn't...) familiarity may win out. Now mind you, for a historical film, especially one that aspires to accuracy, taking this route qualifies in my book as laziness. But I can see how it could happen, and I'm not completely unsympathetic. I just wish producers would stop claiming "accuracy" for things that aren't and "educational value" for things that distort history. One of my costuming friends commented about the film "Elizabeth" that the film's website actually said that the director _forbid_ the costumers to consult historic sources for costume, because he wanted "a fresh vision." The amusing thing, my friend said, is that the director clearly didn't know enough about the period portraits to spot when the costumers _did_ lift something straight out of a well-known historical source :) ____________________________________________________________ 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California ____________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 12:21:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MGLbKQ026117 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:21:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MGLCIx070719 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:21:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGKUNV035039; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:21:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.148]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MGInKR033621 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:19:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 18023 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Sep 2005 16:18:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=c/f43GZIbjbIra/uaZG7IqNuN/98e3ISv82/P5sYgCV1W3SBjCH9DuDxw8xkgseZ6IXbfEOAVltu30ym+hIwA+RlhCB+N4R8m4ZpVQmg+eo5Y4bDKUmbWUQT8tmuqutX6xlZ+W86pUgA76yZuRN/J2xhRrbJvvJKZpRamTELJus= ; Message-ID: <20050922161844.18020.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.53.209] by web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:18:44 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:18:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509221500.j8MEvccq073793@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Dressing Santa Claus X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If you are trying to find an inspirational source for the coca-cola Santa's costume, research frontier clothing and explorer's garb a la Lewis and Clark. Keep in mind however, that the coca-cola Santa's costume is likely to be at least partly due to artistic inspiration and invention. As to Sinter Claaus being dressed in red and white...the local Dutch community has a Sinter Claaus parade every year, with him dressed as I described. Perhaps this is a more modern version, but he has been the same for many years. ?? Annette M ---------- Sinterklaas is also dressed in red and white. Maby they looked at medieval clothes to make him look old, like he lives forever. And added white fur since he comes from the north?pole. Kahlara wrote: >I don't know how accurate this is, but I had always >been told that prior to the Moore/Nast (American) idea >of St. Nick's appearance, that many countries/ethnic >groups had their own version of St. Nicholas or some >similar personality (Baba Yaga in Russia?) and each >had their own costume based on how they were portrayed >in the stories. If I remember correctly, Sinter Claaus >wears a bishop's costume, complete with mitre and >staff and rides a white horse. > >Annette M > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:09:22 -0400 From: "Lloyd Mitchell" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 This is plainly 20thC American, from my point of view. As someone has already pointed out, the vision of Santa differs from culture to culture. The Nast version is the first that I am aware of, which is influenced by the description given in the "Night Before Christmas"(as it is now known) Are you aware of the Dover issue that presents a collection of Santas and farther Christmas? This source might be a starting point in creating the view of Santa you are looking for. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 > Thanks for your responses. I think we're getting somewhere, but let me rephrase my question. What I'm really wondering is, if I wanted to make a costume like this one: http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > and call it historical, where would I go to document it? Who would have worn something like that in real life? Victorian isn't my period, but I don't recall ever seeing anybody dress like that in my brief studies of that century. Is it a Victorian or 20th Century confabulation of some earlier period? Or is it some kind of 19th Century Dutch costume? Does anyone have any pictures of a real person wearing a similar costume, maybe in some other color or without the fur trim? Nast seems to have dressed him in clothes derived from his own period, though possibly a little fantasized, but did the Coca-Cola artist make up the traditional costume or did he derive it from earlier drawings? > > Tea Rose > > P.S. I think I'll go look up that WonderWorker book; thanks for the reference. I know there are all kinds of Santas these days, which is why I don't feel compelled to do the traditional suit, but I'm curious about where the traditional suit came from. > > ============================== > From: "Abel, Cynthia" > > I don't think all of Nast's Santa's wore a red > outfit, but just about all the images I recall usually show him in a > practical winter weather two-piece fur-trimmed suit, suited for a jolly > old elf" and a stocking cap. > > If I remember correctly, this Claus was derived more from the slightly Protestanized Dutch Sinter Claaus, than St. Nicholas. > > A great big very well-fed guy in a cheery and > confident color red with grandfatherly white beard and whiskers was just > the visual ticket to lift the economically stressed consumer. > > Amazon.com has Wonderworker: the history of Santa Claus, > which has a pic of one of Thomas Nast's Santa's on the cover--with a > very present-day politically incorrect pipe between his lips! > > From: Dawn > > http://www.dovercards.com/_images/0486236609_46_Thomas%2520Nast_Santa%2520at%2520Chimney.jpg > > This is a Nast Santa, and it looks like he's in longjohns. > > http://www.sonofthesouth.net/Thomas_Nast/Original_Santa_Claus.jpg > > Another Nast Santa, from 1865, he's in striped pants, a fur lined jacket > with stars on it, and some kind of cap, but it still doesn't look like > 1865 fashion. The image is heavily political, the stars and stripes are > obviously iconic. > > http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > > This is a Coca-Cola Santa from 1954... and you're right. What the heck > is the suit supposed to be? It's not a 1954 men's fashion, is it? > > And why red? > > Dawn > > From: "Kate Pinner" > > 1822 -- Clement Moore -- "A Visit From Saint Nicholas". > This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he was dressed (a picture > in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from there. Before that, > I don't think there was a clear image of him that someone could identify > immediately by some specific article of clothing...at least in the US. > Kate > _______________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:03:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MH3lrt026550 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MH37dc076413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:03:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH2K9J066583; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:02:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH2DU9066503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:02:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-133.sonic.net [209.148.113.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH2BLd014264 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:02:12 -0700 Message-ID: <4332E398.700@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:02:16 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" References: <22812007.1127405685563.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <22812007.1127405685563.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Without any inside knowledge of the film industry--my impression is that it is a very much committee effort. That costumers (and most other team members) don't get to just do anything they want. That they can produce accurate designs, but the director can instead insist that he or she wants styles he/she thinks modern audiences think are flattering to modern actors, or that convey certain symbolism, and whatever else he/she wants to see. So it seems inaccurate to me to say, "Gee, the costumer must not have known any better." My feeling has always been that if you want a 100% perfect custom-made costume, by your lights, that the only way to have total control over it is to make it by yourself, for yourself only. If you custom make it for someone else, whether they are a film or a play or a private customer, since they're paying, they have a right to get what they want. You're working _for_ someone. If it's ready-to-wear, of course you can always make it and see if it sells. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >One of my costuming friends commented about the film "Elizabeth" that the film's website actually said that the director _forbid_ the costumers to consult historic sources for costume, because he wanted "a fresh vision." The amusing thing, my friend said, is that the director clearly didn't know enough about the period portraits to spot when the costumers _did_ lift something straight out of a well-known historical source :) > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:05:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MH5qEw026565 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:05:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MH5HAU076741 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:05:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH5D0P068876; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:05:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH0823064966 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:00:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF0C3C848 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:00:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4332E315.90403@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:00:05 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus References: <200509201803.j8KI0dZ8072139@net.indra.com> <8C78C3ADB07B3E8-1188-4BB9@FWM-R42.sysops.aol.com> <433092B9.10903@reddawn.net> <43318333.5030402@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <43318333.5030402@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO Kitty Felton wrote: > > what is a Nast Santa? > Santa drawn by 19th century artist Thomas Nast. He did a whole bunch of drawings of Santa and holiday scenes, among other things, and was quite popular at the time. His drawings still show up on cards and wrapping paper today. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:08:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MH8HVt026592 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MH7pNK077142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:07:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH7nxD070903; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:07:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH7Xl3070657 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:07:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19492 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:07:28 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for-"Elizabet... Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:07:25 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for-"Elizabet... Thread-Index: AcW/isOjU+K+K4CSSiq3XYI5JecRZwACiMYg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8MH7Xl3070657 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Costume designers for movies set in historic times may want to be as accurate as possible but face a lot of caveats: The book "Hollywood and History by Edward Maeder is an excellent guide to the following 1) Designers are going to choose from sources that look most attractive to the modern eye. Also some designers believe that slavish copying of historic sources is slavish copying--it isn't creative. They are artists, not unimaginative researchers. Personal aside here--I prefer histoically accuracy, but can understand this viewpoint 2) Budget(budget, budget, (especially when it comes to fabric and trims)and time constraints. This often means renting already made costumes(usually for minor and extra characters) 3) What looks good onscreen and what is the director's aesthetic. Films of the 1930's and 40's set in past times are full of what was available and what was attractive in fabrics. Lame, Lurex, and shoulder pads abound. And besides, lighting can't ever be called really accurate--in most historic films and tv presentations, we'd hardly be able to see anything. 4) Keeping the stars' images attractive--ie, you want authentic--check out the actors in the background or in minor roles--stars always want to or have to meet the current aesthetic image of what looks attractive. This is especially noticeable in hair and makeup where the correct aesthetic almost always comes through. A sure way of being able to date when a movie was made within a couple of years. Although a sure way to get an Academy and/or other awards is to gain or lose a lot of weight, strip off the makeup, or alter one's very attractive appearance enough to prove one's self a serious actor. 5) What can or cannot be shown onscreen--is there a moral or social code that permits or does not permit, whether historically correct or not, concealing, revealing or emphasizing via costume parts of the human anatomy. Actually, I'm entertained by movies and tv dramatizations set in the past that aren't well done--it is worth a good giggle. Cindy Abel _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:08:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MH8P7V026596 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MH7bie077090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:07:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH7YIc070685; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:07:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH7R0a070537 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:07:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F013C848 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:07:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4332E4CD.70703@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:07:25 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: santa costume References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think the question is "What did Santa Claus wear?", but rather "Is the 20th century Santa costume based on anything historical? And if so, what?" Dawn otsisto wrote: > http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp > http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p1557.htm > > > -----Original Message----- > Thanks for your responses. I think we're getting somewhere, but let me > rephrase my question. What I'm really wondering is, if I wanted to make a > costume like this one: http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > and call it historical, where would I go to document it? Who would have worn > something like that in real life? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:10:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MHAf3l026621 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:10:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MH9pF7077389 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:09:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH9QuH072184; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:09:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH9ILD072029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:09:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-133.sonic.net [209.148.113.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MH9DXt017523 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:09:13 -0700 Message-ID: <4332E53E.5030605@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:09:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I actually don't understand it either. True, most of the current US was, in the 18th century, not a place for silks and satins. But, as people are commenting, the SCA does all kinds of eras and places remote from US history. So, why not have more groups that do the "fancy" 18th century, even in parts of the US where that part of history didn't happen to speak of? Granted, there won't be the existing organizations, the historic houses and such, to build it around. But the SCA has done very well in the absence of medieval castles . . . . Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Why is it that America has such a great market for 18th century > reenacters and not so many of 18th century? > I have no clues, could anybody enlighten me? > > Bjarne > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:18:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MHIFD4026721 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:18:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MHH0R6078521 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:17:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHGmgh077920; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:16:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHGOl1077627 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:16:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-133.sonic.net [209.148.113.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHGMWg020302 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:16:23 -0700 Message-ID: <4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:16:28 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Nah, to most Americans the 18th century is the remote past. As for "mythed up," you apparently weren't in my grade school American history classes. True and false, we had the larger-than-life Founding Fathers (even a few mothers), history told as stories. Washington and the cherry tree. Washington and Valley Forge. Betsy Ross and the flag. (I knew one of her descendents in high school, named . .. Betsy Ross. And her cousins were named Betsy. The family was still attaching the name to every female infant possible.) Paul Revere and his ride. The Boston Tea Party. In the part of the country I originally came from, everything was named for Washington. Towns, streets, schools, you name it. There was hardly an 18th-century house or inn around that Washington didn't supposedly sleep in. He was Our Father, larger than life. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > It's an experience of its own, really, not related to re-enactment. I > expect the 18th century is too close in time to be myth'ed up like > that and sell well to the general public. > > cv > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:24:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MHO7cY026773 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MHNj2p079485 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:23:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHMttE082678; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHMdK7082437 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:22:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03580 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:45:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:45:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] My upcoming lecture schedule X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A number of you have asked me to keep you updated on my lecture appearances. I have two trips upcoming. Sat., Nov. 18, St. Cloud, Minnesota: Clothier's Seminar North. Lots of classes; I'll be doing four lectures. They're listed on the website, here: http://www.geocities.com/ursulagoddess/CSNorth_main.html Sat., March 25, 2006, Portland, Oregon: Lecture day. This will be similar to the one I did in Seattle a couple of years ago. I'll be doing my usual five-lecture marathon; I'm not sure which talks they'll choose yet, but probably some of the same and one or two new ones. Although both of these events are SCA-sponsored, I believe anyone will be welcome to go. The St. Cloud seminar may require that all participants wear an approximation of medieval costume (and I know that many people will be showing off their clothing there). --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:26:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MHQpA5026832 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:26:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MHQKVE079785 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:26:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHQDP0085215; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:26:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHOnLd084094 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:26:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.167] (pm5-167.eos.net [205.133.149.167]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8MHOedp005818 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:24:42 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:15:00 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509221307.j8MD7XeH008175@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Mary of Guise X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh, that was a fun part. And how about when Elizabeth was shot at while in her boat on a party on the river, and no one bothered to look for who did it? As a Catholic, of course I was bemused by the very idea of Elizabeth wearing white makeup and deciding never to marry in order to give England a "new" Virgin Mary -- surrounded by weeping serving maids, no less! But the very best part, IMHO: THE POISONED DRESS. That movie had so little to do with reality that the fun part was finding what was really true! But the people who made it had no business touting its accuracy. I agree with everyone else who said that was the real problem, and it's a pretty big problem. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 13:45:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MHjLKf027062 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:45:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MHhccK081932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:43:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHhPP7098043; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:43:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHgG53097266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:43:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-133.sonic.net [209.148.113.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MHgEwA029282 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:42:14 -0700 Message-ID: <4332ECF8.7000201@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:42:16 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org> <4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO I should add that, I think to many people, people not that interested in history, reenactors, and professional historians, the driving interest, the original motivation of their interest was not facts, but the great myths. For American history, we have myths like The Settlers Persecuted for Their Beliefs Find Refuge, the Noble Rebellion Against the Unjust Opressor (the Little Guys Win!), the Taming of the Great Forests into Fertile Farmland, the Winning of the West, etc., etc. We have The American Dream (the nuclear famiily owning its own suburban home), we have The Land of Opportunity (anyone with gumption can become president). As people learn more about history, the issues become much more complex, and some of historical events turn out to be not so noble after all. And things like the American Dream are seen, by many, to not be achievable in real life. And current politics make myths seem silly--Kennedy as a president was still revered, but Tricky Dick was a genuine shock. But the myths, the driving force of them, is still there. I think to most reenactors, even the ones who moan about tourists whose primary knowledge of the American Civil War is "Gone with the Wind" (another great myth)--fact is, the myths are a core of their own interest. I think it's a good thing, as otherwise, what is history? A collection of dry facts, arranged as scientifically as possible? Accurate, maybe; emotionally involving, no. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:10:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MIAnVo027323 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:10:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MI8w7q085020 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:08:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MI8pSF016895; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:08:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MI8d60016745 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:08:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2CDA2153B8 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:36 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Dressing Santa Claus Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:36 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <20050922161844.18020.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Baba Yaga is female and was not Russia's version of St. Nick. :) De -----Original Message----- Kahlara wrote: >I don't know how accurate this is, but I had always >been told that prior to the Moore/Nast (American) idea >of St. Nick's appearance, that many countries/ethnic >groups had their own version of St. Nicholas or some >similar personality (Baba Yaga in Russia?) and each >had their own costume based on how they were portrayed >in the stories. If I remember correctly, Sinter Claaus >wears a bishop's costume, complete with mitre and >staff and rides a white horse. > >Annette M _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:22:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MIMQf9027468 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:22:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MIL9Ob086808 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:21:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIL5X1025935; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:21:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIKxmC025829 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:21:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8MIKwdG014566 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:20:58 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.233 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:20:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <60021.12.34.14.233.1127413258.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <00e601c5bf85$f8bba5d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <20050922.074239.12727.556366@webmail24.nyc.untd.com> <00e601c5bf85$f8bba5d0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:20:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, I'm on the 18cWoman list and we are interested and do talk about fashion, as well as many other topics. If you hate it, then unsubscribe. > Oh yes Karen, > I think you have a point there, > Things in a new country so far from civilisation 3 or 4months away > I give up! > > Its just like i hate another list ia m on called 18th century womens list, > and they dont care about fashion at all > But i am sure you are righ > Good weekend to youIn denmark we say _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:29:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MITorW027585 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:29:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MISwAT087926 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:28:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MISs3e031387; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:28:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MISjYo031236 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:28:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 66112153B7 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:28:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:28:45 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <002001c5bf6e$7958d5e0$935083d1@rmitchellras> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Santa X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Twas the night before Christmas was written by a Pastor trying to cheer his children with a story. He started with St. Nicholas but the pastor is said to have lightened the character up a bit as St. Nicholas was considered a bit solemn in character. It is said that the sleigh idea came from the pastor seeing the German people in winter, riding in sleighs. To make the story more magical, added reindeer instead of horses. Perhaps you might want to look into the traditional costume of the ghost of Christmas past. He wears a green, wht fur trimmed robe that is similar in design to Santa's jacket. De -----Original Message----- This is plainly 20thC American, from my point of view. As someone has already pointed out, the vision of Santa differs from culture to culture. The Nast version is the first that I am aware of, which is influenced by the description given in the "Night Before Christmas"(as it is now known) Are you aware of the Dover issue that presents a collection of Santas and farther Christmas? This source might be a starting point in creating the view of Santa you are looking for. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:36 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 603 > Thanks for your responses. I think we're getting somewhere, but let me rephrase my question. What I'm really wondering is, if I wanted to make a costume like this one: http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > and call it historical, where would I go to document it? Who would have worn something like that in real life? Victorian isn't my period, but I don't recall ever seeing anybody dress like that in my brief studies of that century. Is it a Victorian or 20th Century confabulation of some earlier period? Or is it some kind of 19th Century Dutch costume? Does anyone have any pictures of a real person wearing a similar costume, maybe in some other color or without the fur trim? Nast seems to have dressed him in clothes derived from his own period, though possibly a little fantasized, but did the Coca-Cola artist make up the traditional costume or did he derive it from earlier drawings? > > Tea Rose > > P.S. I think I'll go look up that WonderWorker book; thanks for the reference. I know there are all kinds of Santas these days, which is why I don't feel compelled to do the traditional suit, but I'm curious about where the traditional suit came from. > > ============================== > From: "Abel, Cynthia" > > I don't think all of Nast's Santa's wore a red > outfit, but just about all the images I recall usually show him in a > practical winter weather two-piece fur-trimmed suit, suited for a jolly > old elf" and a stocking cap. > > If I remember correctly, this Claus was derived more from the slightly Protestanized Dutch Sinter Claaus, than St. Nicholas. > > A great big very well-fed guy in a cheery and > confident color red with grandfatherly white beard and whiskers was just > the visual ticket to lift the economically stressed consumer. > > Amazon.com has Wonderworker: the history of Santa Claus, > which has a pic of one of Thomas Nast's Santa's on the cover--with a > very present-day politically incorrect pipe between his lips! > > From: Dawn > > http://www.dovercards.com/_images/0486236609_46_Thomas%2520Nast_Santa%2520at %2520Chimney.jpg > > This is a Nast Santa, and it looks like he's in longjohns. > > http://www.sonofthesouth.net/Thomas_Nast/Original_Santa_Claus.jpg > > Another Nast Santa, from 1865, he's in striped pants, a fur lined jacket > with stars on it, and some kind of cap, but it still doesn't look like > 1865 fashion. The image is heavily political, the stars and stripes are > obviously iconic. > > http://www.adclassix.com/images54cokesanta.jpg > > This is a Coca-Cola Santa from 1954... and you're right. What the heck > is the suit supposed to be? It's not a 1954 men's fashion, is it? > > And why red? > > Dawn > > From: "Kate Pinner" > > 1822 -- Clement Moore -- "A Visit From Saint Nicholas". > This supposedly gave us the first picture of how he was dressed (a picture > in words). The newspaper/magazine artists took it from there. Before that, > I don't think there was a clear image of him that someone could identify > immediately by some specific article of clothing...at least in the US. > Kate > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:37:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MIbiho027709 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:37:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MIb8CH088843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:37:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIZksE036024; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:37:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIYgp9035135 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:35:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j8MIYan04259 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:34:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Althea Turner Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:34:34 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] question on data collection/ excel X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings, I have been tasked with creating an Excel spreadsheet in order to collect data for a historical study. The tables will need to be exportable to Access. I'm comfortable doing fairly complicated spreadsheets, but want to know if anyone out there has done this before and do they have any suggestions or advice before I go creating away. I have never done anything this complicated before. Many thanks! Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:41:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MIf8xh027741 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:41:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MIemD3089151 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:40:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIejib039293; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:40:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com (pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com [64.233.207.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIedps039135 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:40:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mplumb@wideopenwest.com) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (d14-69-244-104.try.wideopenwest.com [69.14.104.244]) by pop-4.dnv.wideopenwest.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j8MIeWD22492 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:40:32 -0500 Message-ID: <4332C266.2090404@wideopenwest.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:40:38 -0400 From: Michelle Plumb User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <82.30fb5232.306426b5@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <82.30fb5232.306426b5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bjarne, why not start your own discussion group about the 18th century, focusing on clothes? I'll bet plenty of us here would love to join. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:48:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MImXWA027828 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:48:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MIm99o090058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:48:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIl16A043607; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:48:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MIkYo4043230 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:46:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 25919 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Sep 2005 18:46:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=18Y0abqrcF83Pbq47w/an3zDcXEp4NFRUzyackY+6GppD5D5WjG+ed5B8PSV/Adh3rV6DHPdoypkZHZL/A46bX4okB29EaDZxUY9yXn9m/mnvjS9+YVp6foxS6HCZf//Tdle6HqLaJaMXATxkLb4a0sGLTGiiCwPxsEdc6XWhLI= ; Message-ID: <20050922184629.25917.qmail@web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31011.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:46:29 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4332C266.2090404@wideopenwest.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ohhhhhhhh yeah!!!! Chris G. Michelle Plumb wrote: Bjarne, why not start your own discussion group about the 18th century, focusing on clothes? I'll bet plenty of us here would love to join. Michelle _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:49:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MIneHT027864 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:49:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MInDAx090210 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:49:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIn6H5045033; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:49:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MImrAD044877 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:49:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0A645153B9 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:48:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Santa costume Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:48:53 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4332E4CD.70703@reddawn.net> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The sites help in getting an idea as to how the Santa Claus character and possibly the suit came together. This can help in searching down avenues not thought of. "The Santa Claus figure, although not yet standardized, was ubiquitous by the late 19th century. Santa was portrayed as both large and small; he was usually round but sometimes of normal or slight build; and he dressed in furs (like Belsnickle) or cloth suits of red, blue, green, or purple. A Boston printer named Louis Prang introduced the English custom of Christmas cards to America, and in 1885 he issued a card featuring a red-suited Santa. The chubby Santa with a red suit (like an "overweight superhero") began to replace the fur-dressed Belsnickle image and the multicolored Santas. " I think you might want to look at the source of inspiration. Nast was German and therefore you might want to look into German costumes. Probably garments closer to 1800s. There has been a comparison between Santa's suit and Laplanders folkwear. You might want to look there. De -----Original Message----- I don't think the question is "What did Santa Claus wear?", but rather "Is the 20th century Santa costume based on anything historical? And if so, what?" Dawn otsisto wrote: > http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp > http://www.kidzworld.com/site/p1557.htm > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 14:56:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MIuCps027970 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:56:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MItSLV090841 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:55:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIt2AS049108; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:55:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIsdro048715 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:54:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:53:59 -0700 Message-ID: <4332FDCE.7030403@msn.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:54:06 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2005 18:53:59.0785 (UTC) FILETIME=[FE0FC590:01C5BFA6] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Wow, I remember the discussion last year, but not the dress detail below the waist. Interesting. What is the manuscript you speak of Monica? I missed that part. Saragrace > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:02:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJ2pFD028048 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:02:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJ27LS091609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:02:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJ0lAY053197; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:02:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.28]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJ0VMl052886 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:00:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:00:14 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:00:14 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509221807.j8MI4koE013881@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:00:14 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2005 19:00:14.0680 (UTC) FILETIME=[DD843580:01C5BFA7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Lavolta Press >... >great myth)--fact is, the myths are a core of their own interest. I >think it's a good thing, as otherwise, what is history? A collection of >dry facts, arranged as scientifically as possible? Accurate, maybe; >emotionally involving, no. Well, maybe not for *most* folks... :) OTOH, I know that in my case, cold, dry objective fact is the goal... Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:04:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJ4fDm028095 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:04:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJ3cWU091832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:03:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJ2o5i054637; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:03:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIx0kB051961 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6577414D6D for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:58:57 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:58:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 In-Reply-To: <4332D34C.8080802@thibault.org> Importance: Normal X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes I do. Traditional cloth. Though I am curious as to what is meant by "early days of SCA". That can be a bad thing as well as a good thing. :) There are various types of Powwows. Some are open to the public and others are closed (private/invitation only/card carriers only) De -----Original Message----- I went to a local Native American Pow-Wow this past weekend. Do any of you do that activity? It was... probably like the early days of the SCA. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:22:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJMXim028319 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJI4v7093935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:21:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGOp5q038317; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:25:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGOUxn037962 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:24:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:24:20 -0700 Message-ID: <4332DABB.9060808@msn.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:24:27 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <001c01c5bf8d$8007b590$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <001c01c5bf8d$8007b590$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2005 16:24:20.0690 (UTC) FILETIME=[161A9B20:01C5BF92] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Great question! For me, I think it what I was introduced to first from a costume perspective. From a history perspective, I just find American history to be "too new." That being said, there are several of us (here in Phoenix) who have been doing the Renaissance thing who are toying with moving up two or three centuries. I have found that the more complicated the construction, the more I like it..........there is plenty of that after the Renaissance, though more of the guess work has been taken out of it. Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:22:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJMXLG028320 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJI4v9093935 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:21:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJ1dd8053832; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:02:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIvnE3051185 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:58:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8MIq2jf019029 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:52:02 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4332FEAA.9080407@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:57:46 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org> <4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > Nah, to most Americans the 18th century is the remote past. As for > "mythed up," you apparently weren't in my grade school American history > classes. Oh, yeah, I've had those, but it's not all fairies and magic dust, bizarre speech patterns, and bosoms. And some of those myths can at least be found to have roots in real events (although, apparently, not the 'Betsy Ross made the flag' one, last I heard.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:28:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJShJl028373 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:28:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJS8Ij095219 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:28:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJQjg9072189; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:27:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJPWXF071332 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:26:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-133.sonic.net [209.148.113.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJPTqa004560 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:25:29 -0700 Message-ID: <4333052B.20404@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:25:31 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org> <4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> <4332FEAA.9080407@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4332FEAA.9080407@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO The bosoms are for a somewhat older crowd. . . . Some medieval myths, such as King Arthur, probably have some roots in real events. We just don't know for sure what those are. But my point is, we _do_ have American historical myths and they have a powerful effect on Americans. This may not be the body of myth that most affects you emotionally, but it definitely exists, and it's definitely only partly in accordance with historical fact. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Lavolta Press wrote: > >> Nah, to most Americans the 18th century is the remote past. As for >> "mythed up," you apparently weren't in my grade school American >> history classes. > > > Oh, yeah, I've had those, but it's not all fairies and magic dust, > bizarre speech patterns, and bosoms. And some of those myths can at > least be found to have roots in real events (although, apparently, not > the 'Betsy Ross made the flag' one, last I heard.) > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:45:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJjtKk028578 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:45:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJjIFd097555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:45:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJjEDc086469; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:45:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJj7S7086384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:45:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-133.sonic.net [209.148.113.133]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MJj5KI010832 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:45:06 -0700 Message-ID: <433309C3.3080702@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:45:07 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There is a difference between a goal and a motivation, what leads someone to become interested in history, and partly to stay interested. When I was studying to be a historian, most of the students in a historiography seminar (that is, one that focused primarily on teaching professional historical method, rather than any specific era or topic) confessed (when officially asked) that they were motivated by what our instructor termed "romantic" notions. The great myths, the love of the romance of the past. Furthermore, the instructor cheerily confessed to it too, and so did many of my other instructors at some point. And, so do I. That doesn't mean that I, or any of those other people, don't enjoy abstract research, or don't believe in finding facts. But the great myths have power. History is full of wonderful stories, true, false, and partly true. This is probably why historians choose history over physics. On the other hand, "hard" scientists tend to have their own romantic bases, their own myths and beliefs, that motivate them. When asked on a questionnaire what his religion was, my husband replied, that his religion was physics. People aren't machines. They are partly emotionally motivated at all times. As long as you don't allow emotion to triumph over abstract reasoning, there is no problem with the quality of your reasoning. Myths may not be facts, but they are real and valuable. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Marc Carlson wrote: >> From: Lavolta Press >> ... >> great myth)--fact is, the myths are a core of their own interest. I >> think it's a good thing, as otherwise, what is history? A collection of >> dry facts, arranged as scientifically as possible? Accurate, maybe; >> emotionally involving, no. > > > Well, maybe not for *most* folks... :) > > OTOH, I know that in my case, cold, dry objective fact is the goal... > > Marc > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:48:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJmdht028604 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:48:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJm3D3097884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:48:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGVhUZ043947; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:31:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.149]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MGVGHP043532 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:31:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 91045 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Sep 2005 16:31:08 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=p4CXbCi7EejRDRKRxqAIIM95DWg30c2M+o688ibwnmdlDMsRU7QQ4LRq3SBAadIjDPhost//I3iRmE8OH8phRboYJR82BSh0cNrhBXmy9fXo0C9sFD1GQIRaexxEWf2X/XQ7nFRR3H0D3RTy4LKeV8wn3ctvKgx/oljVv1+0LoE= ; Message-ID: <20050922163108.91043.qmail@web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.53.209] by web35610.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:31:08 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:31:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509221500.j8MEvccq073793@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Kilcommon Jacket 2 last questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you everyone that responded (with the same answer too!). Laying it out and embroidering before cutting makes perfect sense now that it has been explained. I don't have a frame that big, but am thinking a quilting hoop - about 22" inside diameter - might do the trick. Another reminder for the costuming historians out there - this is for my wedding and we're going for a look more than accuracy. I will probably be the only one there that knows the degree of accuracy or lack there of, although I do appreciate the historical notes and reminders some of you have sent and will keep them for future reference. Thanks again, Annette M ------------------------------ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:01:31 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Kilcommon Jacket 2 last questions At 09:10 AM 9/21/2005, you wrote: >Thank you to everyone that responded. It was very >helpful. One last question on this topic... > >Wool or Linen? Wool is my suggestion. Lined in linen or cotton. >I did buy a nice 'homespun' cotton that has a nice >texture and feel and resembles linen, but it will need >some type of crisp lining. I have regular interfacing >- not the fusible kind - and was thinking of layering >that between the cotton and some sort of lining >fabric. Certainly not accurate, but I thought it might >be a nice look for the wedding. It would depend on how thick and "homespun" it looks to you. If you like it, then use it. As for interfacing, regular sew-in kind is what I use (I am not fond of how fusibles don't hold up as well), with tailor's hair canvas (if you can find it) or additional regular interfacing added in any stress areas, like a small strip along the front edge and neck, and along the bottom to support the pleats. >Make that two questions - > >we are considering the 'embroidered' embellishments >similar to those shown in the woodcuts, but tone on >tone. How is this to be done - before assembling the >pieces or after the jacket is done? And how to keep >the fabric smooth and taut enough to accomplish this >so it looks nice? My 'needlework' experiece is limited >to what fits in a hoop or on a stretcher. Either can work, although it is easier to do so before the jacket is assembled. First wash and dry your fabric. Make a cartoon (outline of the embroidery) on a copy of the pattern pieces you are going to work, so you know where to place things. Then transfer the cartoon onto the fabric and cut out the fabric with very wide margins (2-3") or as a rectangle (works better). Do not actually cut out the pattern piece yet, things can shrink a little while being embroidered. Put the piece of material in a stretcher (better than a hoop, but a hoop can work), do your embroidery work, take it off the stretcher, lightly wash the fabric if there are transfer marks remaining, dry & press on the wrong side with a towel underneath the fabric (so you don't flatten the embroidery), then cut out the pattern piece and make up the jacket. You can also embroidery a lightweight fabric, and add that on as an applique onto the back of the jacket. That is period, and those were called "slips" by the English. The upper classes would do slips in linen, cut the pieces out, and sew the slips onto velvet. I am not as sure if the Celts did the same, but it would make sense to do so if embroidering onto heavy materials like wool or velvet. >Thanks again, >Annette M hth, Kimiko Small --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:48:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJmgxB028607 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJm3Cv097884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:48:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIRZUh030351; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:27:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MIR4fh029990 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:27:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.188 ([204.127.197.188]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005092218265901400okn71e>; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:26:59 +0000 Received: from [128.95.201.15] by 204.127.197.188; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:26:58 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:26:58 +0000 Message-Id: <092220051826.29768.4332F772000DE8700000744822092299270809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Personally, I play in the SCA because I can dress up alot... What I'd prefer to do is to play dress up for several periods, and (I'm sorry) for brevity let's just say from 1650 through 1900. I love each of the different fashions that evolved and exploring each development and their fabrics, textiles, accessories and social graces would be exquisite. If there are 'Societies' in the USA (Seattle, Washington area) that I could begin playing in I'd love to know about them. Or, if not, if there's a group that focuses on the Irish/Celtic/Welsh (I think they are all different and distinct groups) history, language and costuming, I'd also love to know about them, too. Elena/Gia > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > > > Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! > > > > I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not > > so many 18th century? > > The American RenFaires are mostly very fluffy. Lots of flashy clothes, > stage magic, selling of pretty things, and not so much history. They > make a fair amount of money for the organizers, and the few historic > elements are often provided by really dedicated volunteers who get paid > nothing, and who are not a big part of the experience for most of the > attendees. > > It's an experience of its own, really, not related to re-enactment. I > expect the 18th century is too close in time to be myth'ed up like that > and sell well to the general public. > > cv > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 15:49:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MJnAbi028623 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:49:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MJm3Cx097884 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:48:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGb46Z048083; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:38:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MGZwVC047122 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so401127nzf for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:35:50 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=JSIdankM4OOgjqyCEtVIhRang0tegqZxgnKCmXHGT8o/pgJDs7VFHsKtTHA6bwmZD8obDls6XNBbiHVCPEHjsLc3OyhnsEXIPJlQFTvPc8TpKd0RfaGFJYz2vjkeplzJ6i/JU4HJfIuhsySm3I/jNZ7gW6j+1VaMcVNbxcjH4dc= Received: by 10.36.10.10 with SMTP id 10mr2444715nzj; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:35:49 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8MGZwVC047122 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO >Last year we had discussed the dress of Eleanora of Toledo that was on >display in Memphis. I wasn't sure if the link to the picture on the web had > been posted, so it is listed below. This picture is much better than > the one in the catalog. >http://www.wonders.org/masters8.htm The website is wrong. That gown is from Pisa's collection. The Gallerie di Costume (Florence) isnt convinced that it was Eleanora's. Circumstancial, documentary and physical evidence leads the curators to be relatively sure that it is from Eleanor's tailor's workshop. Quite possibly, it belonged to one of Eleanora's ladies in waiting. IIRC, when Eleanora died, 1562 in Pisa, many of her gowns were given to her favorite church there, the convento di San Matteo, where it prob dressed an effigy. No gown recorded in Eleanora's inventories or receipts corresponds to the Pisa gown. As mentioned by another poster, Eleanora's ladies were seen in Siena 1560 all in matching red velvel gowns much like this one. Eleanora's gown, as found in her grave, was white satin, tho' even post restoration, it doesnt look particularly white. The full story is in "Moda a Firenza" subtitled "Lo Stylo di Eleanora di Toledo e la sua Influenza" published by the Pitti Palace museum. There is also a publication on the Pisa gown pub'd 2000 post restoration. I have not read it. Has anyone else? --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 16:21:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MKLHvw029050 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:21:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MKKf3f001646 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:20:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKKAap011753; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:20:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f2.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.12]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKJsjU011462 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:19:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:19:48 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:19:48 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:19:48 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2005 20:19:48.0737 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB137F10:01C5BFB2] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Lavolta Press >...And, so do I. That doesn't mean that I, or any of those other people, >don't enjoy abstract research, or don't believe in finding facts. But >the great myths have power. History is full of wonderful stories, true, >false, and partly true. This is probably why historians choose history >over physics. I didn't suggest that anyone wasn't interested in research (does that parse right to you?), just that unlike the implied everyone in your earlier message, some of us really *do* enjoy dry dull facts, and the myths and stories are of less interest. In fact the myths and stories that have grown up about history tend to annoy me in the long run since they generally have to be weeded out later as they prove to be false. So, my goal is cold, objective fact. My *motivation* is to honor the dead, those who's lives and existence we have coopted for our entertainment, and I don't believe that's actually possible without at least making the effort to get a correct understanding of the worlds they lived in. This means not making stuff up to fill in the blanks unless we have to; saying "we don't know" a *lot* more than most people prefer :) >On the other hand, "hard" scientists tend to have their own romantic >bases, their own myths and beliefs, that motivate them. When asked on a >questionnaire what his religion was, my husband replied, that his >religion was physics. The topic of "historical fact" is the only place you will ever see me get that fanatical gleam in my eye (God can take care of God just fine - the facts and the Dead, OTOH, could use some protection). >People aren't machines. They are partly emotionally motivated at all >times. As long as you don't allow emotion to triumph over abstract >reasoning, there is no problem with the quality of your reasoning. >Myths may not be facts, but they are real and valuable. I grant they have their uses. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 16:34:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MKYcLM029209 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MKXri4003183 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:33:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKXnkO021748; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:33:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts5.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.163]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKXfdD021572 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([65.92.205.104]) by simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050922203336.FZBK11606.simmts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:33:36 -0400 Message-ID: <007501c5bfb5$a7448ac0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org><4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> <4332ECF8.7000201@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:38:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here is another different take on the subject: I think what periods of history that have been chosen by North Americans to re-create have been heavily influenced by movies, popular fiction and television. Take the SCA for example, one of the founding members is a very popular Fantasy writer. Both Ren-faires and the SCA began during a period of Fantasy fiction popularity, so to my mind there is no real surprise that the time periods chosen to re-create are more Medieval in flavour. Also hugely popular is the 'Western'. Western movies, books, TV programs abound, so no real surprise that some folks would love the chance to play Cowboy, ride a horse and wear a 6 shooter. Same to be said of the Civil war. It's all a very romanticised part of local history. As a youngster, I could tell you that guys with swords and armour were from the Middle Ages, King Arthur was cool, I had piles of books of stories about that. There were movies and tv shows too. Tell me there is a group that dresses up and does Medieval things, fantastic, sign me up. Where's my horse and my sword? :-) The TV show Gunsmoke and my Grandpa's Louis L'Amour western novels were responsible for my (obviously shaky) grasp of American Western history. Tell me there is a group that gets to run around outside with tomahawks, black powder guns and horses, sign me up! Ask me anything about the 1700's and I would draw a total blank. There were no tv shows about that. First movie I ever saw on the subject at all was Dangerous Liasons, and the subject matter of the movie wouldn't have been much of an encouragement to find a group to recreate the period. :-) To make a long post short, we start with what we know, then expand as we learn. What drew us to these groups in the first place was a very idealized romantic notion of 'history', whatever we had seen up to that point we got from Pop culture. Now we know better. :-) Sheridan (I also think that some history we are still too close to, my home province of Alberta just celebrated its 100th anniversary of being part of Canada. My family has lived here for just over 90 years. Europe's history always seemed far more interesting to me in comparison, because it's Old.) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 16:35:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MKZJFO029220 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:35:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MKYqpV003288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:34:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKYmTg022323; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:34:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKTwB7018820 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:30:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.ff.1c804e96 (57341) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:29:48 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:29:48 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-wuwien-Metrics: net.indra.com 1290; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2005 1:05:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: One of my costuming friends commented about the film "Elizabeth" that the film's website actually said that the director _forbid_ the costumers to consult historic sources for costume, because he wanted "a fresh vision." The amusing thing, my friend said, is that the director clearly didn't know enough about the period portraits to spot when the costumers _did_ lift something straight out of a well-known historical source :) Ignorance is always fun, isn't it? A fresh vision??? Then do a Sci-fi film and leave history to those who like it. Stupid director! Why the producers [who have control] let him get away with this stupid BS idea is beyond me. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 16:36:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MKaVP0029235 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:36:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MKa00J003394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:36:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKZw2A023196; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:35:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKZqZP023107 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:35:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [199.184.176.8] (EHLO p03m115.mxlogic.net) by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.12.2-01) with ESMTP id ca513334.1900944304.147162.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:35:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from unknown [199.184.176.8] by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.12.2-01) with SMTP id cef03334.2079271856.142075.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:11:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:07:56 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:07:55 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F90F@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Costume Groups in Seattle (was RE: playing in period societies?) Thread-Index: AcW/rqxfnQiJaCRRSuya8Fck0cg4eQAAbczQ From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2005 20:07:56.0127 (UTC) FILETIME=[5253D6F0:01C5BFB1] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005092001)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [(unknown)] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8MKZqZP023107 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Costume Groups in Seattle (was RE: playing in period societies?) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO If there are 'Societies' in the USA (Seattle, Washington area) that I could begin playing in I'd love to know about them. *snip* Ask and ye shall receive: www.brcg.org We are a group that studies every aspect of costuming, from extrapolations of the stone age to futuristic fantasy, with a lot of historical fact and folly in between. There is another group, Somewhere in Time, Unlimited, which is more heavily influenced by historical costume after the SCA period, but I don't think they have a web presence. I can find their address if you would like it. The BRCG is the local branch of the International Costumers Guild, while S.I.T.U. was started by local folks in the SCA who wanted more from the later periods. Kate McClure aka StitchWitch Beads? What beads . . . ? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 16:44:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MKiBwc029322 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:44:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MKhcRD004413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:43:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKhL28028785; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:43:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MKgq8v028406 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:43:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 727 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2005 13:42:46 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 664, pid: 665, t: 8.0130s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:34/d:1095 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 22 Sep 2005 13:42:38 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050922134032.02588860@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:42:33 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] question on data collection/ excel In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:34 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >Greetings, > >I have been tasked with creating an Excel spreadsheet in order to >collect data for a historical study. The tables will need to be >exportable to Access. I'm comfortable doing fairly complicated >spreadsheets, but want to know if anyone out there has done this >before and do they have any suggestions or advice before I go >creating away. I have never done anything this complicated before. > >Many thanks! > >Althea Turner >althea@alfalfapress.com From my limited experience with spreadsheets, the data may be exportable, but the formatting is not. So make it as simple as possible. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 16:46:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MKksOW029363 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:46:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MKkHwp004799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:46:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKk6w2030867; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:46:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKjgoZ030551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAEAFD8CFB for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 06838-05 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6F4B5D8CB4 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ac01c5bfb2$3d922900$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711><00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:14:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > >> Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! >> >> I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not >> so many 18th century? Aside from the fact that I don't know of any 18th century groups near me... I just plain like the clothing from the 16th century better. Not so fond of the 18th century stuff, it just never appealed to me. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 16:58:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MKwYCs029519 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MKw2ig006365 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:58:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKvbmR039815; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:57:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MKvOWh039579 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:57:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:57:19 -0700 Message-ID: <43331AB6.3060506@msn.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:57:26 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] question on data collection/ excel References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Sep 2005 20:57:19.0395 (UTC) FILETIME=[3892A730:01C5BFB8] X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Excel and Access work very well together. You can even work directly in your spreadsheet from Access. It sounds like you will not be doing the data manipulation once it is in Access? If not, it would be best to work with the person who is to be sure the fields you establish are what/how they want. It is important to know how things will be categorized/sub-categorized first. That will require what will appear to be duplication from a spreadsheet person's view. I'd be happy to help...I have worked with both extensivley. Sg Althea Turner wrote: > Greetings, > > I have been tasked with creating an Excel spreadsheet in order to > collect data for a historical study. The tables will need to be > exportable to Access. I'm comfortable doing fairly complicated > spreadsheets, but want to know if anyone out there has done this > before and do they have any suggestions or advice before I go > creating away. I have never done anything this complicated before. > > Many thanks! > > Althea Turner > althea@alfalfapress.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:05:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ML52CA029609 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:05:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ML4R6l007241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:04:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML4JnM045039; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:04:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML49h6044852 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:04:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.19a.3cd49f6e (57341) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:03:51 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <19a.3cd49f6e.30647636@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:03:50 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2005 4:49:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, goofy1@suscom.net writes: I just plain like the clothing from the 16th century better. Not so fond of the 18th century stuff, it just never appealed to me. Isn't taste interesting? There's really no period I hate, but I LOVE the 18th century...generally of course. Things look different depending on the decade...but the coat [justicorps or frock] waistcoat and pants [breeches] on men are the best. Especially IMHO at the end of the century. The open robe developed for women is a wonderful canvas to try all kinds of decorations on. The conical corset, layered skirts and open necklines look good on just about every type [even large women look great!] and can be very sexy. But I could go on about the 17th century's fabulous hats, wonderful off the shoulder rigid bodices [like in the 1660s] and wigs....and of course all those 18th century things I like START in the late 17th century. And of course the 16th century men in leather doublets, short hair and beards look fantastic too. The women look good but not in a very feminine way to me. It's more ceremonial and elegant. Then there's the 19th century..... As far as making any of the periods...they all equal out. Different difficulties in each, but just as many. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:07:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ML7WHo029658 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ML6wgh007491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:06:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML6sWn046897; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:06:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML6mtM046814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:06:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-181.sonic.net [209.148.113.181]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML6kId001007 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:06:47 -0700 Message-ID: <43331CE9.20602@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:06:49 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332BF4A.3010900@thibault.org><4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> <4332ECF8.7000201@lavoltapress.com> <007501c5bfb5$a7448ac0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> In-Reply-To: <007501c5bfb5$a7448ac0$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think there is a firm dividing line between "pop culture," and, well, the rest of our culture. The Great Myths consist of a vast soup of old historical stories; fairy tales; religious myths; cultural dreams/goals; and modern novels, films, and TV shows. It's not like "late-night TV" versus "solid academic historical research." The reason a lot of "pop culture" resonates with people is that it consciously or unconsciously draws from, or has evolved from, established mythic elements. And I don't think it's like, we should give up, or even can give up, the Great Myths the way kids give up playing with dolls because they're too old. You just need to recognize them for what they are, and also recognize that they may be partly true, that they may contain actual historical facts. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Shane & Sheridan wrote: >Here is another different take on the subject: > >I think what periods of history that have been chosen by North Americans to >re-create have been heavily influenced by movies, popular fiction and >television. > >To make a long post short, we start with what we know, then expand as we >learn. What drew us to these groups in the first place was a very idealized >romantic notion of 'history', whatever we had seen up to that point we got >from Pop culture. Now we know better. :-) > > >Sheridan > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:08:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ML8lUg029693 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:08:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ML8HUL007655 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:08:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML81YT047825; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:08:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML7vUA047695 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:07:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1c9.319565ed (57341) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:07:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:07:46 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1098/Thu Sep 22 14:57:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1098/Thu Sep 22 14:57:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO All this talk about like one century or another....... Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you think? What garment? I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:12:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MLCKRd029733 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:12:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MLBHcV007990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:11:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLBCvi050130; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:11:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLB6HF049991 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:11:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j8MLB0I20048 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:11:00 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) In-Reply-To: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:10:59 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1098/Thu Sep 22 14:57:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1098/Thu Sep 22 14:57:50 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Without a doubt ... platform sneakers. :D Althea On Sep 22, 2005, at 2:07 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > All this talk about like one century or another....... > > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be > known for, you > think? What garment? > > I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:21:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MLLpLO029853 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:21:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MLLRlG009237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:21:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLLASb057450; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:21:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLL30J057281 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:21:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.68.5e5aac11 (57341) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:20:52 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <68.5e5aac11.30647a33@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:20:51 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2005 5:07:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: I don't think there is a firm dividing line between "pop culture," and, well, the rest of our culture. Indeed. But especially today, pop culture is disposable. "Real" culture endures. And pop culture is a lot...LOT of the time just plain wrong. Look at the notion of the flapper in her fringed dress, stocking rolled down and doing the Charleston . Yes, there's a basis for it but the REAL range of attitudes and clothes [and dances] from the 1920s is much more interesting and better. Even closer to home is the hippy. I saw a bit of Milos Forman's [dreadful] film of "Hair" recently. The hippies had elements of hippy-dom, but I don't remember seeing any of them dressed quite like that. And the film is all flower power and free love, whereas the real "Hair"....and real hippy movement was very much more: down with the establishment, man...protest...f-you...aggressive. I remember. Pop culture skims the surface. "Real" culture digs deep. And is always more interesting. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:23:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MLNGK2029883 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:23:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MLMjLW009399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:22:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLMZEb058535; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:22:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLM7SX058196 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:22:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8MLGJjf021071 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:16:19 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4333207C.700@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:22:04 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you > think? What garment? Denim jeans would be my vote. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:30:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MLUE7x029958 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:30:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MLTjai010281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLT70G063470; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:29:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eagle.uvm.edu (eagle.uvm.edu [132.198.101.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLR3Kq061919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:27:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Hope.Greenberg@uvm.edu) Received: from uvm.edu (penguin5.uvm.edu [132.198.101.215]) by eagle.uvm.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j8MLQpmb010785 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:26:51 -0400 Received: from ip153248.uvm.edu (ip153248.uvm.edu [132.198.153.248]) by webmail.uvm.edu (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:26:51 -0400 Message-ID: <20050922172651.jvvl0mmyjxc84gks@webmail.uvm.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:26:51 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting AlbertCat@aol.com: > > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be > known for, you > think? What garment? Great question. I'll take a stab at it, though I'm still trying to think of a single defining garment: 1) Comfort as the defining word, as opposed to display, ostentation, propriety, etc. 2) a deplorable lack of fabric! as in, clothes that use far less fabric than before (a bit of a comeback in the 50s New Look and in high fashion evening wear at various times, but overall...) 3) a transition from body shaping through foundation garments to body shaping through actually shaping bodies (see Valerie Steele's corset book for more on that) 4) high tech fabrics: goretex, velcro, mosquito/sun/stain proof, etc. (see #1 for why) 5) unisex clothing _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:33:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MLXJ0i029992 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:33:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MLWpVo010648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:32:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLWcLB065941; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:32:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLW9FH065584 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:32:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([65.92.205.104]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050922213202.VNHO11463.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:32:02 -0400 Message-ID: <00b301c5bfbd$d0416d00$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:37:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Unisex clothing, and definitely blue jeans IMO. Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century > All this talk about like one century or another....... > > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you > think? What garment? > > I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:48:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MLmgpN030215 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:48:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MLmEO2012281 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:48:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLlIkV076139; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:47:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLkp1K075735 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:47:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from TeaRoseS@aol.com) Received: from TeaRoseS@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.157.5981a5c2 (16112) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R27 (fwm-r27.webmail.aol.com [152.163.181.131]) by air-id12.mx.aol.com (v107.10) with ESMTP id MAILINID124-3ef0433326413d4; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:46:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:46:41 -0400 Message-Id: <8C78DD64050E45A-E20-2CD3@FWM-R27.sysops.aol.com> From: tearoses@aol.com References: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> Received: from 68.143.196.38 by FWM-R27.sysops.aol.com (152.163.181.131) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:46:41 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.14204 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.181.131 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I would like to add to Fran's thoughtful comments that it has a lot to do with our own sense of national heritage. People are often interested in history mainly from the perspective of their own ancestors. The Civil War is much more interesting when you find out your great-great-grandfather fought in it. Historical reenactment groups tend to reenact what happened in their general location; for example, here in Missouri there are a lot of Civil War and pioneer reenactors, but I've never come across any RevWar people here. In New England, though, I would expect the Revolutionary War to predominate. Maybe the reason location has such an impact is because in the place where something happened you have the highest concentration of descendants of the people involved in the historical event. In other words, we don't celebrate fancy, European-style 17th or 18th century events because our ancestors, or at least the people who shaped our society, were already forming a separate identity here during those centuries. We can celebrate Renaissance England because it was still our ancestor in that period, but not the Battle of Waterloo or the English colonial period, because by then England was no longer a part of our own heritage. I hope I'm making sense. I'm not a sociologist. And I, too, wish there was a forum where I could explore centuries outside the realm of the SCA, the Renaissance Festival, or the Civil War. I'd love to see what I look like in a robe d'anglaise... Tea Rose _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 17:48:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MLmmLI030218 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:48:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MLmBOk012278 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:48:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLllTJ076556; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (m15.nyc.untd.com [64.136.22.78]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MLlbHo076325 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:47:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penhalion@juno.com) Received: from m15.nyc.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m15.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABBVGKU5AFEY492 for (sender ); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from penhalion@juno.com) by m15.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K5JKVG9F; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:46:16 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:29:06 -0500 Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Message-ID: <20050922.162907.-401455.0.penhalion@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-39 From: Karen R Bergquist X-ContentStamp: 14:7:523921299 X-MAIL-INFO: 4e250d400d003045003020f530206429e4a0e0b460d9a07580c1600475b549c0756121e925f9250ca920b13025f5 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: fRRJgEOSsRehnOwCpkfn7yA8M3ec39oD2/Kxl25qgxRIJPdFygHnEw== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m15.nyc.untd.com|penhalion@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I saw the movie of 'Hair' back in 1979 when it was first made and even then I noticed that the hippie fashions weren't done very well. I think that the late 70's were too close to the real hippies to do their fashions well. I know that sounds weird, but I think that fashion was past it just enough for many of the crucial elements to look out of fashion and not vintage. Bell bottoms had only gone out of style a few years before the movie was made. I think that we could do a much better version of 'Hair' in terms of costuming now with the recent retro-hippie look that's been in. Of course the plot or lack thereof had pretty much doomed the movie to disaster from the beginning.....once again, too close to the source (but not actually IN the source) for the soon to be Yuppies to be comfortable with the antiestablishment Hippies. Karen Seamstrix (too young to be a real Hippie but I remember them) On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:20:51 EDT AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > Even closer to home is the hippy. I saw a bit of Milos Forman's > [dreadful] > film of "Hair" recently. The hippies had elements of hippy-dom, but > I don't > remember seeing any of them dressed quite like that. And the film is > all flower > power and free love, whereas the real "Hair"....and real hippy > movement was > very much more: down with the establishment, > man...protest...f-you...aggressive. I remember. > > Pop culture skims the surface. "Real" culture digs deep. And is > always more > interesting. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 18:22:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MMMpwG030580 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MMMLpY016383 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:22:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMM47c001248; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:22:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net (smtp1.suscom.net [64.78.119.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMLadM000850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:21:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19478D8CE6 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp1 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 19997-05 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp1.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A8E74D8CDE for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <078801c5bfc3$ee08a8c0$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <19a.3cd49f6e.30647636@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:21:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new .250 at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? > > Then there's the 19th century..... > > As far as making any of the periods...they all equal out. Different > difficulties in each, but just as many. Now THERE is another century I could play in! Almost every decade in the 19th century appeals to me, from Regency to the huge hoop skirts (I adore hoop skirts) to the bustle gowns...and the men's clothing was so elegant! Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 18:25:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MMPQ0U030602 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:25:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MMIXiX015782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:25:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ML0akr042265; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:00:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8ML0DQX041682 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:00:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBVGG35ADHVRYS for (sender ); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K5JG6SNA; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:58:55 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:58:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] My upcoming lecture schedule Message-ID: <20050922.135842.392.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-11 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 3:4:787918666 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgustpTVRVxeJ0Vu9tn++dOA= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO we in the Portland area are really looking forward to your visit, Robin. Whether you talk about our persona period or not! ;) arlys > Sat., March 25, 2006, Portland, Oregon: Lecture day. This will be > similar > to the one I did in Seattle a couple of years ago. I'll be doing my > usual > five-lecture marathon; I'm not sure which talks they'll choose yet, > but > probably some of the same and one or two new ones. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 18:25:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MMPZIJ030610 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:25:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MMIXiZ015782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:25:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLQxAS061892; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:27:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MLQdRu061537 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:26:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from catrijn@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s11so527388wxc for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:26:27 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=luXbMX4vsXvZiLyDq10j4judTOUfKeAYXUxs0jHL9E+g7r2pi0uE+Ze9BavVs2bhCVMYTUZgyWG/ABF0jrGL+LEmh44NDsUGoTTu1SQjfbpBRU9iGD/2V893CFvFL6ac6t/zMU+WCFzzWk+fxu4nzIIg6HeRgUc6MGDZzn6cNtQ= Received: by 10.70.63.2 with SMTP id l2mr612783wxa; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.94.11 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:26:27 -0500 From: Catrijn vanden Westhende To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century In-Reply-To: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8MLQdRu061537 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On 9/22/05, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you > think? What garment? My first guess would be some of the technological changes rather than any particular fashion style. Plastic-based fibers and other synthetics, lycra in everything. Modern chemical dyes - day-glo and neon colors. The complete shift to ready-to-wear clothing. Pants (by which I mean trousers, if you prefer British english) for women being acceptable (and common) is a pretty big shift too. But I can't really put my finger on an iconic style for the century - there's so much variety. Catrijn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 18:30:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MMUQmk030677 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MMU3pA017363 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:30:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMTuew006876; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:29:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from S2.cableone.net (s2.cableone.net [24.116.0.228]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMThLh006634 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:29:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kbaird@cableone.net) Received: from kimathlon (unverified [69.92.42.132]) by S2.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S2) with ESMTP id 30935229 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:38:20 -0700 From: "kim baird" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:30:05 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5bfc5$2e27f400$6701a8c0@kimathlon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 In-Reply-To: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 17, in=21, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 69.92.42.132 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pants for women? The whole designer/couture thing? Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:08 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century All this talk about like one century or another....... Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you think? What garment? I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 18:39:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MMdVns030806 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:39:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MMdB5J018440 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:39:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMd8Me012891; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:39:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMd1gj012786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:39:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8MMcxTL005364 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:38:59 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.233 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62665.12.34.14.233.1127428739.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <000001c5bfc5$2e27f400$6701a8c0@kimathlon> References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> <000001c5bfc5$2e27f400$6701a8c0@kimathlon> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [h-cost] the 20th century From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Pants for women? And hemlines above the ankle. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 18:56:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MMurJ1030962 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:56:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MMuNbi020532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMuKNL023327; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:56:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMuEXB023264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:56:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8MMuDQ8020628 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:56:13 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.233 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <62673.12.34.14.233.1127429773.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <4332E53E.5030605@lavoltapress.com> References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332E53E.5030605@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cynthia said, > Oh, yeah, I've had those, but it's not all fairies and magic dust, > bizarre speech patterns, and bosoms. I've heard eough bizarre speech patterns at 18thC events, and there are definitely bosoms! It seems like for both 18thC and Ren Faires, many people want to show more bosom than was fashionable at the time. Fran said, > True, most of the current US was, in the 18th century, not a place for > silks and satins. But, as people are commenting, the SCA does all kinds > of eras and places remote from US history. So, why not have more groups > that do the "fancy" 18th century, even in parts of the US where that > part of history didn't happen to speak of? Granted, there won't be the > existing organizations, the historic houses and such, to build it > around. But the SCA has done very well in the absence of medieval > castles . . . . Isn't that what PEERS does? I'm not on the west coast, but I thought they had balls of various periods, beyond the eras when California was well-populated. There are places in the States where silks & satins are appropriate - Williamsburg, Alexandria, Philadelphia and Boston come to mind. For those who could afford it, fashion was no more than a couple months behind London, as long as it takes a ship to cross with the latest Lady's Magazine. As I understand it, there were no masqued balls, really huge court panniers, or the extreme make-up that was seen in Europe. But there are still fine silk gowns and velvet coats, minuets and parties. I know Gadsby's Tavern museum in Alexandria holds a ball every year, sometimes several in a year. Because they want to be open to the museum members, dress is 18th century or 21stC formalwear. There are other events, sometimes private parties and sometimes as part of a larger reenactment, where people dress in very fine clothes. Perhaps it seems like upper class 18thC activities do not exist in the US because people know about them through word of mouth or other reenactments. If it weren't for the Lumieres list (a Yahoo group), I would not know it was happening in Europe, either. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 18:59:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MMx94X030984 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:59:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MMwgE1020755 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:58:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMweD8024772; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:58:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MMwY8J024662 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.167] (pm5-167.eos.net [205.133.149.167]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8MMwWdo013567 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:58:33 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:48:49 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509222123.j8MLMiuw058672@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO T-shirts and jeans. After centuries of even peasant and workman's wear being somewhat "formal" to our taste (think of barbers, printers, and butchers in the late 1800s and early 1900s with white shirts, jackets, and ties), these garments became nearly universal in the west, with all sorts of fancy versions (designer jeans, silk t-shirts with women's suits, etc.). And sweaters (jumpers, for our European friends), which seem to have been sort of regional folk garments in the past. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 19:06:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MN6YQj031077 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MN6Hj3021864 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:06:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MN6DNV029457; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:06:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MN68qx029395 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:06:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-103.sonic.net [209.148.114.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MN63Y9013166 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:06:04 -0700 Message-ID: <433338DE.501@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:06:06 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <68.5e5aac11.30647a33@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <68.5e5aac11.30647a33@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >. > > >Indeed. > >But especially today, pop culture is disposable. "Real" culture endures. > > The works of Homer and Shakespeare (if they were even single authors, which is another issue entirely) were pop culture in their day. So was most of what literature students earnestly study, at the time it was first published. What people declare to be "high art" is not necessarily "better." Are Zeus myths really much more complicated or edifying than Superman comics? And also, "high art" is not necessarily more influential on our culture as a whole. > >And pop culture is a lot...LOT of the time just plain wrong. Look at the >notion of the flapper in her fringed dress, stocking rolled down and doing the >Charleston . Yes, there's a basis for it but the REAL range of attitudes and >clothes [and dances] from the 1920s is much more interesting and better. > > What I said was, that the myths we form of (and from) historic periods have a powerful influence on our culture. I also said that real history is considerably more complex; so you and I agree there. But to ignore or despise the effect that these myths have, is to ignore a significant portion of human motivations. Including our own. >. > >Pop culture skims the surface. "Real" culture digs deep. And is always more >interesting. > > > There we disagree, because I think this is an artificial distinction. It's basically a marketing distinction. Like "real" literature getting reviewed in the _New York Times Book Review_, and "trashy"--but bestselling--novels getting reviewed in a great many less pretentious venues. Having worked in the book world, I could position lot of novels as either one or the other merely by writing a few paragraphs of back cover copy and sending review copies to a certain group of publications. And definitions evolve. Opera used to be popular entertainment. The high-class spectators got box seats because they were above, therefore out of the line of fire of, people criticizing the performance by throwing things at the actors. Now opera is "high art"--expensive to attend, and deemed a rather obscure, "cultured," taste. Science fiction used to be "low art"; now it's becoming respectable. But whether high or low art, there are many working scientists who not only say they were inspired to their career paths by reading science fiction, but who are not ashamed to still read it. I'm not saying all novels, or films, or other art forms are equally "good" in my own estimation. But the fact remains that many people love and get value from things I don't think are "good," and from things our current marketing trend has declared "pop culture." Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 19:12:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MNCZ1A031155 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:12:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MNCGdQ022714 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:12:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNCCwr032814; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:12:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNC2pB032685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:12:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-103.sonic.net [209.148.114.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNBxj2012700 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:12:00 -0700 Message-ID: <43333A42.9010902@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:12:02 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think we'll ever see the whole 20th century defined as one image. After all, we don't see the 19th century that way. We see it in terms of the Empire look, the crinoline look, etc. We've already settled on images for most of the 20th century, except for the most recent decades. We already think of the pigeon-front look, the Titanic look, the flapper look, the 30s Hollywood look, the World War 2 look, the "swing" 1950s look, the Mod look of the 60s, the Hippie look of the 70s . . . it's just the 80s and 90s where we're still undecided on The Image. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >All this talk about like one century or another....... > >Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing >"thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you >think? What garment? > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 19:21:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MNLP7Z031254 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:21:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MNKjrk023642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:20:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNKftf037388; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:20:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNKbIt037330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:20:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-103.sonic.net [209.148.114.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNKZUC016130 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:20:36 -0700 Message-ID: <43333C46.3070802@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:20:38 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <4332E53E.5030605@lavoltapress.com> <62673.12.34.14.233.1127429773.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <62673.12.34.14.233.1127429773.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Isn't that what PEERS does? I'm not on the west coast, but I thought >they had balls of various periods, beyond the eras when California >was well-populated. > > Yes, but not every reenactment event is a ball. There are other things people like to do. The Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild has a range of non-dance events. Neither is ongoing in the sense of one era, though. That is, if you want to dress 18th century you have to wait for the one or two times a year there is an event for it. > There are places in the States where silks & satins are appropriate - >Williamsburg, Alexandria, Philadelphia and Boston come to mind. > Yes, but for much of the current US, they weren't. > For >those who could afford it, fashion was no more than a couple months >behind London, as long as it takes a ship to cross with the latest >Lady's Magazine. > True. > > Perhaps it seems like upper class 18thC activities do not exist in >the US because people know about them through word of mouth or other >reenactments. If it weren't for the Lumieres list (a Yahoo group), I >would not know it was happening in Europe, either. > > > > In California you are more likely to find a Gold Rush event than an 18th-century one. It's not that people (aside from the SCA, which seems to be everywhere) never reenact things that didn't happen in that part of the country. It's just that there are generally a lot fewer such events. Someone who was used to attending 18th-century events on a frequent basis Back East, would find them few and far between in most parts of California. Of course, many people have a taste for reenactment, per se. If there is no group for their favorite era in a place they move to, they just attend the events for the era popular in their new home. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 19:44:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MNiRv6031496 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:44:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MNi2kc026182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:44:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNhwjh049212; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:43:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.146]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8MNhqon049130 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:43:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 77369 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Sep 2005 23:43:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=eTmIcXMbIjJn1iTfTEbe1kkFupsTCALu83lGC9hEz7J9aLt2phmMXocePO783s2eyNsryHlVxEwEC1NUXeidHIcyg0IsA/mJL5LFmh2qIxDw+K2J3j+795zU7JVgXxZtvrMwDGrZRr8j/Sewy4HzchTrakYGKO1AaEa9UF+L0VM= ; Message-ID: <20050922234347.77367.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.53.209] by web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:43:47 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:43:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 612 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:36 -0500 From: "otsisto" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: Dressing Santa Claus To: "Historical Costume" Baba Yaga is female and was not Russia's version of St. Nick. :) De Which is why I said "or some similar personality". :) My understanding is that Baba Yaga was a witch who brought gifts. I'm a bit rusty on the little Russian Folklore I do know, so I don't remember more than that. -----Original Message----- Kahlara wrote: >I don't know how accurate this is, but I had always >been told that prior to the Moore/Nast (American) idea >of St. Nick's appearance, that many countries/ethnic >groups had their own version of St. Nicholas or some >similar personality (Baba Yaga in Russia?) and each >had their own costume based on how they were portrayed >in the stories. If I remember correctly, Sinter Claaus >wears a bishop's costume, complete with mitre and >staff and rides a white horse. > >Annette M --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 19:46:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MNk1dv031524 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MNjf0a026356 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNjfLJ050065; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:45:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m26.mx.aol.com (imo-m26.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.7]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNjbtO049980 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:45:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.20b.9e634e9 (25508) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:45:26 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <20b.9e634e9.30649c16@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:45:26 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2005 7:12:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: I don't think we'll ever see the whole 20th century defined as one image. After all, we don't see the 19th century that way. We see it in terms of the Empire look, the crinoline look, etc. I understand you perfectly, but you can still distill the 19th century to relatively unadorned clothes in dark colors for men, and that curvilinear shape for women. OK...here's my take on the 20th. The short skirt. What other century has women in short skirts for all occasions? I think this is the main contribution. And speaking of all occasions....manufactured clothes for all classes....from which a direct result is the zipper and Velcro. Jeans are really part of this universality of manufactured clothing...they being a 19th century invention [as are designer clothes]. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 19:50:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8MNoveI031576 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:50:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8MNoZod026818 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:50:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNoXTa052719; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:50:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m18.mx.aol.com (imo-m18.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8MNoSKV052596 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:50:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.ba.7abd79ef (25508) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:50:14 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:50:14 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5201 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/22/2005 7:06:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: The works of Homer and Shakespeare (if they were even single authors, which is another issue entirely) were pop culture in their day. Yes yes yes....but so were a bunch of playwrights and poets, who were probably MORE popular, that we will never [thank goodness] hear of. Time weeds out pop culture for you so only the "real" culture remains. Remember, Bach was considered old fashion and Euripides lost the play contests. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:09:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N09BYO031763 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N08ZU2029184 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:08:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N08XmY061746; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:08:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.202]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N08UUH061637 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:08:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0IN8003H1TPW4100@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:08:17 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi-- I've read it. The gown was used to dress a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Eleonora was very religious and some of her gowns were used for ecclesiastical stuff after she died. It MIGHT have been from one of the L-I-W, or Eleonora herself. It is unsure. There is a painting of the Ducal entry into Siena that shows Eleonora and her ladies in red as they rode into the city. The figures are tiny, but you can see that they were all garbed similarly. The burial gown was not white. Janet Arnold says it was chartreuse. I could not thell you. Frankly I think it is remarkable that they could do anything with the fragments of the gown, considering the condition it was in after the 1857 exhumation. Ms. Arnold was kind enough to go into detail about the dress and how it was damaged in the grave, in a letter to me in 1992. Regards-- Dame Catriona MacDuff -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Cin Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:36 PM To: h-cost Subject: Subject: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress >Last year we had discussed the dress of Eleanora of Toledo that was on >display in Memphis. I wasn't sure if the link to the picture on the web had > been posted, so it is listed below. This picture is much better than > the one in the catalog. >http://www.wonders.org/masters8.htm The website is wrong. That gown is from Pisa's collection. The Gallerie di Costume (Florence) isnt convinced that it was Eleanora's. Circumstancial, documentary and physical evidence leads the curators to be relatively sure that it is from Eleanor's tailor's workshop. Quite possibly, it belonged to one of Eleanora's ladies in waiting. IIRC, when Eleanora died, 1562 in Pisa, many of her gowns were given to her favorite church there, the convento di San Matteo, where it prob dressed an effigy. No gown recorded in Eleanora's inventories or receipts corresponds to the Pisa gown. As mentioned by another poster, Eleanora's ladies were seen in Siena 1560 all in matching red velvel gowns much like this one. Eleanora's gown, as found in her grave, was white satin, tho' even post restoration, it doesnt look particularly white. The full story is in "Moda a Firenza" subtitled "Lo Stylo di Eleanora di Toledo e la sua Influenza" published by the Pitti Palace museum. There is also a publication on the Pisa gown pub'd 2000 post restoration. I have not read it. Has anyone else? --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:09:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N09VTF031776 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:09:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N09F1J029273 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N09CIu062001; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from arkroyal.concentric.com (arkroyal.concentric.com [207.155.252.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0962d061962 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by arkroyal.concentric.com id UAA15263; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:09:06 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200509230009.UAA15263@arkroyal.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:09:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200509222127.j8MLMiux058672@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8N0962d061962 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like so many different periods. I especially think the men look HOT in 18th & 19th century clothes. What was that Hugh Jackman and Meg Ryan movie? YUM. But for me, it's easier to sew the earlier period costumes. Julie ---- wrote: > > I just plain like the clothing from the 16th century better. Not so fond of > the 18th century stuff, it just never appealed to me. ************************ > Isn't taste interesting? There's really no period I hate, but I LOVE the > 18th century...generally of course. Things look different depending on the > decade...but the coat [justicorps or frock] waistcoat and pants [breeches] on men > are the best. Especially IMHO at the end of the century. The open robe > developed for women is a wonderful canvas to try all kinds of decorations on. The > conical corset, layered skirts and open necklines look good on just about > every type [even large women look great!] and can be very sexy. > > But I could go on about the 17th century's fabulous hats, wonderful off the > shoulder rigid bodices [like in the 1660s] and wigs....and of course all those > 18th century things I like START in the late 17th century. > > And of course the 16th century men in leather doublets, short hair and > beards look fantastic too. The women look good but not in a very feminine way to > me. It's more ceremonial and elegant. > > Then there's the 19th century..... > > As far as making any of the periods...they all equal out. Different > difficulties in each, but just as many. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:09:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N09VAm031777 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:09:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N097JN029238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N097KX061966; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N094aJ061940 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-103.sonic.net [209.148.114.103]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N092Jo032175 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:09:03 -0700 Message-ID: <433347A1.3020601@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:09:05 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It's not true that "only the best automatically survives." A huge amount of culture has simply been lost, including most of the works of playrights like Euripides, Sophocles, many others. All or most of the literary, musical, and dramatic works of whole cultures are gone, probably forever. Authors, composers, etc. are often ignored because they belonged to a culturally ignored group. They were female, they belonged to the wrong racial group, etc. It takes someone to do modern research, and in some sense marketing, to "revive" them. On the other hand, there are some English Lit works that aren't really all that wonderful. Some of those interminable 18th-century novels from the Days Before Editors? And face it, _Jane Eyre_ and _Wuthering Heights_ are just romance novels. They're good romance novels, but are now "great literature" because they're time-hallowed. If they appeared on some publisher's list today, as new works, they'd get decent reviews in a few places, then quite possibly get put out of print after a couple years and forgotten. And now, with the sheer, enormous, volume of stuff being published, a lot of excellent books meet this fate. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 9/22/2005 7:06:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > >The works of Homer and Shakespeare (if they were even single authors, >which is another issue entirely) were pop culture in their day. > > >Yes yes yes....but so were a bunch of playwrights and poets, who were >probably MORE popular, that we will never [thank goodness] hear of. Time weeds out >pop culture for you so only the "real" culture remains. Remember, Bach was >considered old fashion and Euripides lost the play contests. >_______________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:15:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N0F9NS031855 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N0Eojm029784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:14:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0Em37064582; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:14:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (cumulus.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.72]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0Eh7A064523 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:14:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7337B175 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:14:40 +1000 (EST) Received: from b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au (b2ABC.static.pacific.net.au [203.100.229.188]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:14:40 +1000 Message-ID: <1127434480.433348f01f35c@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:14:40 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO We are probably too close to the end of the 20th century to identify a fashion style or item -- we can look at the early and middle years of the century but need some space before we can objectively look at what really worked as opposed to what designers and others put forward as definitive of the final decade or so. I think it may just be fabrics/fabric technology/colouring that will define the time combined with production techniques. These contributed to availability and so contributed to what came to mind when designing and making, -C. > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:18:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N0IhKU031888 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N0IPYX030213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:18:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0IOnH066286; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:18:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0IKDF066171 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:18:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0IN800G2YU680U50@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:06 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It is a very heavily researched historical novel about Cosimo and Eleonora. Dame Catriona MacDuff (Monica Spence) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of WickedFrau Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 2:54 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress Wow, I remember the discussion last year, but not the dress detail below the waist. Interesting. What is the manuscript you speak of Monica? I missed that part. Saragrace > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:22:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N0Mpo7031930 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N0MIsk030689 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:22:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0MHxa068102; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:22:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0MCA3067994 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:22:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N1pMdB028145 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:51:22 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for-"Elizabet... Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:22:06 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509222022.06692.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 22 September 2005 1:07 pm, Abel, Cynthia wrote: > Costume designers for movies set in historic times may want to be as > accurate as possible but face a lot of caveats: > > The book "Hollywood and History by Edward Maeder Yes, it's an excellent book. I got a used copy from a store once for under $3 US and buying it was one of the best decisions I ever made. > is an excellent guide > to the following > > 1) Designers are going to choose from sources that look most attractive > to the modern eye. Also some designers believe that slavish copying of > historic sources is slavish copying--it isn't creative. They are > artists, not unimaginative researchers. > > Personal aside here--I prefer histoically accuracy, but can understand > this viewpoint. I can understand the viewpoint, but in my opinion any designer who doesn't think that it's possible to design creative costumes in a period-appropriate style doesn't know enough about the costume of the period. -- Cathy Raymond "As a general rule, if end users want to smash something repeatedly with a sledgehammer, that's a sign of bad UI."--Bram Cohen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:31:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N0VHtd032012 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:31:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N0UkVf031532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:30:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0UiSQ072304; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:30:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0UcVb072173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N1xdJV028312 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:59:39 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:30:23 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509222030.23898.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Thursday 22 September 2005 4:29 pm, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/22/2005 1:05:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > > One of my costuming friends commented about the film "Elizabeth" that the > film's website actually said that the director _forbid_ the costumers to > consult historic sources for costume, because he wanted "a fresh vision." > The amusing thing, my friend said, is that the director clearly didn't > know enough about the period portraits to spot when the costumers _did_ > lift something straight out of a well-known historical source :) That's interesting--and sad too. But it certainly explains what I found to be so strange about the movie. I was puzzled by the fact that some of the gowns were quite historical in design (though not necessarily period for the late 1550s, when Elizabeth actually first took the throne) while others were only "historically inspired", and still others looked like bad, distant imitations of historical designs. Your friend's comment explains the phenomenon quite well. -- Cathy Raymond "As a general rule, if end users want to smash something repeatedly with a sledgehammer, that's a sign of bad UI."--Bram Cohen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:42:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N0gEG2032115 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:42:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N0ftcd032607 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:41:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0fsUj077472; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:41:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0fpYJ077379 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:41:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so576493nzf for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:41:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=h2W14HO4IyEgylat2+DpHVIGfwUTHlFwWO8mu7ad8ECQdMK2QHVnD9LhtIv1aYc3u98Bypvz8rq/Fces7NcUiSWAfseY4i6QO3Svx6NuJZqAKoYZl+p8v4W5/LHQhEXpC06ymCMKXBI+jCCNgveUink9PlnP1QsgiiE5Igm9xEw= Received: by 10.36.56.8 with SMTP id e8mr1426998nza; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:41:44 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8N0fpYJ077379 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >All this talk about like one century or another....... >Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing >"thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you >think? What garment? >I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. Hmmm, I notice you didnt ask for a defining garment or style particularly. So, I'll answer from the POV that "thing" equates to "fashion trend". With not much thought, two "things" persisting most of the century leapt to mind: 1. Nekkid ankles on women. It's the shocking change that lasted pretty much all century, for all occasions casual & formal. Only occasional maxi-skirts fads, formalwear and evening wear doing the long "thing". 2. The other big change is that casual clothing is no longer the inverse of power & wealth. Said another way, there is no longer a requirement to Dress to Impress at every opportunity. As a case in point, the business suit here in Silicon Valley is rarely seen on any but real estate agents, bankers and people pitching to VCs. The suit is the marker of service & supplication, not prestige. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:54:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N0sGnP032270 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:54:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N0rqmS033522 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:53:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0roTb083136; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:53:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0rhCe083063 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:53:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=BEAx20bvhRm7PEVG0j+NI3YpgC9z0399H8Mi3LvTdH8PHxegH/wW2PtvXsQZcv9I; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.60.60] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EIbol-0006bK-K7 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:53:36 -0400 Message-ID: <027101c5bfd9$38a14a30$3c3c9b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509230009.UAA15263@arkroyal.concentric.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:53:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b02f220cc0d01b09e5ed0efb9d5b5a8c0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.60.60 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: What was that Hugh Jackman and Meg Ryan movie? YUM. "Kate & Leopold". I second the YUM. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 20:57:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N0vksD032314 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N0vRvP033934 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:57:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0vOUU085009; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:57:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N0v8Vb084813 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:57:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so581470nzf for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:57:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=gckjk40TkkKVw4iAweTsN0FRb4uFdg70MINAdZ33D1fBePkXQ6ij8K4U6ndArg7+skluHeNKZP99EXqotufjccExS2dW02ZznmNjPwWza3tWewrT6vxH9Hk4RVaJkA+pBRHbvkOQlfXKzEF4u3f+KrwMA9pfehUfW871m9+aEAQ= Received: by 10.36.56.8 with SMTP id e8mr1428653nza; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:57:02 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8N0v8Vb084813 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Isn't that what PEERS does? I'm not on the west coast, but I thought >they had balls of various periods, beyond the eras when California >was well-populated. PEERS is a dance group with a costume addiction. PEERS doesnt stick with history or California either. There have been Gilbert and Sullivan Balls, Shanghai Swing Ball, The Black Ops Ball, Vampyres, Romeo & Julliet (any R&J from any production strongly encouraged... I did West Side Story). Kathleen commented to me once long ago that the best part about the Sci-Fi ball PEERS does every year was the excuse to dance any dance from any place and from any time frame. Six centuries of dances are suddenly fair game. If they call some English or Italian Rennaissance thing the "Centari Court Ritual Galliarde" it becomes Centari. Aint nuthin wrong with that... but an SF ball isnt much in the way of historical, either. I love the crossover costumers, re-enactors and fandom. Bring on the Victorian Klingons! --cin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 21:27:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N1RT1B032594 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:27:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N1QkfO036772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:26:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1Qdv6098921; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:26:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1QYkh098799 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:26:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.143]) by avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050923012628.ZDLU670.avmta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:26:28 +1200 Received: from [10.1.1.4] ([219.89.161.241]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050923012627.JIPX1650.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@[10.1.1.4]> for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:26:27 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.5]); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:26:32 +1200 Message-ID: <00df01c5bfdd$d47d5b70$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> <20050922172651.jvvl0mmyjxc84gks@webmail.uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:26:31 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > 1) Comfort as the defining word, as opposed to display, ostentation, > propriety, > etc. Yep, stilletos, 3" heels of any kind, miniskirts, pantihose, winkle pickers. All very comfy in my books;) If we are comparing high fashion to high fashion, no way is it more about being comfortable or less austentatious (except in the war years), and regular wear to reagular wear.. well we would certainly find it more comfortable it doesn't mean those we are comparing to would;) > 3) a transition from body shaping through foundation garments to body shaping > through actually shaping bodies (see Valerie Steele's corset book for more on > that) Definitely! Corsets now being worn as outwear and as curiositys. The defining moments in 20thC fashion to my mind? When it became cheaper to buy first hand clothing ready made than make it/have it made. And in some cases cheaper than preworn clothing.... Pants became acceptable for women to wear nearly all the time. Though there are still some formal occasions where they are frowned upon. So basically the acceptance that women have legs too;) When we changed our bodies to fit the clothes rather than relied on support garments. Though support garments are still around, they are not the usual way to shape ourselves. Well they aren't admitted to;) The tan, though it was still a mark of luxury because you got it doing nothing rather than working in the field all day long;) Almost dependance on man made fibres rather than natural. Fashionable icons are now for the most part those who act or sing. Though there are still a few famous for being famous and thus emulated. Though I suspect there is a different kind of ridicule for them now.... I'm sure there are a few more. michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.5/110 - Release Date: 22/09/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 21:48:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N1mxYM000410 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:48:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N1mfZE038793 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:48:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1mdVq008778; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:48:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc14.comcast.net (sccrmhc14.comcast.net [63.240.76.49]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1maxL008660 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:48:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-66-31-43-36.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005092301483001400jv89me>; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:48:31 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:48:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050919151427.0257ee30@pop.surewest.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Search on "fan" -- they call their sticks "Fan staves". -- Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net -- "One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to train." -- Morihei Ueshiba > From: Joan Jurancich > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:15:08 -0700 > To: Historical Costume > Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan > > Did you get the maribou fan? That's the only folding fan I found on > the web site. > Joan > > At 02:14 PM 9/19/2005, you wrote: >> I picked up the sticks for the fan I'm making at: >> www.displaycostume.com >> the company is here in Seattle but they do website orders and will ship. >> Good Luck >> Molly >> -------------- Original message -------------- >> >>> I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to >>> renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even >>> sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called >> ribs, I think. >>> I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a couple of other >>> combinations without any luck. >>> >>> Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if >>> anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very >>> grateful. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Julie >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 21:51:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N1p1og000435 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:51:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N1ogjj039032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:50:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1ogIQ009709; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:50:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51310.mail.yahoo.com (web51310.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.38.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8N1oeWx009637 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:50:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 35439 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Sep 2005 01:50:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4IC/N1Ujd0Pz4AHiEfZi7iiWOxR9t45R8hqIz9MxNord2uogKmwIKIYLDMXlcNo79Ng0SbeiGPweGI6ZIfTFSy4m3PsTKnMxnTqpTKedIHsGD1AMbDBhFwFkK6ou61USSsZHEqaBZDB7KheG/SRIuQBSeSygP6DwzAKU4N6SXFw= ; Message-ID: <20050923015035.35437.qmail@web51310.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51310.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:50:34 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:50:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <4332E6EC.9090403@lavoltapress.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My town didn't have Washington sleep in it--but he did have breakfast there once, or so I was told during the Bicentennial (of the revolution). It's even possible, as the town was between actual troup concentrations in larger towns on either side, but don't ask me which; possibly Wethersfield was one. I think Rochambeau & all the usual dramatis personae (just the personal staff, but still) surrounding Washington were also supposed to have been there. Truth? I know I heard some things from the whole cloth on that tour of Worthington Ridge, which is where my town was founded. fwiw Ann in CT --- Lavolta Press wrote: > Nah, to most Americans the 18th century is the > remote past. As for > "mythed up," you apparently weren't in my grade > school American history > classes. True and false, we had the > larger-than-life Founding Fathers > (even a few mothers), history told as stories. > There was hardly an 18th-century house or inn > around that > Washington didn't supposedly sleep in. He was Our > Father, larger than > life. > > Fran __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 21:52:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N1qN4w000454 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:52:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N1pwiE039228 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1pwi1010349; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:51:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1psAq010269 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:51:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:51:48 -0700 Message-ID: <43335FBC.4040406@msn.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:51:56 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2005 01:51:48.0558 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C36F6E0:01C5BFE1] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Drat, I think I did see this earlier. Is this the thing that isn't published yet? monica spence wrote: >It is a very heavily researched historical novel about Cosimo and Eleonora. >Dame Catriona MacDuff (Monica Spence) > > >What is the manuscript you speak of Monica? I missed that part. > >Saragrace > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 21:53:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N1rrgi000466 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:53:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N1rc2x039446 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:53:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1rZEj011103; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:53:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from sccrmhc11.comcast.net (sccrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.202.55]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N1rUQd011002 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:53:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lauren.walker@comcast.net) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (c-66-31-43-36.hsd1.ma.comcast.net[66.31.43.36]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005092301532401100pfq64e>; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:53:24 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:53:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century From: Lauren Walker To: Historical Costume Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Pants, especially pants on women. Possibly blue jeans. -- Lauren M. Walker lauren.walker@comcast.net > From: Cin >> All this talk about like one century or another....... > >> Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing >> "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be > known for, you >> think? What garment? > >> I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. > > Hmmm, I notice you didnt ask for a defining garment or style > particularly. So, I'll answer from the POV that "thing" equates to > "fashion trend". With not much thought, two "things" persisting most > of the century leapt to mind: > > 1. Nekkid ankles on women. > It's the shocking change that lasted pretty much all century, for all > occasions casual & formal. Only occasional maxi-skirts fads, > formalwear and evening wear doing the long "thing". > > 2. The other big change is that casual clothing is no longer the > inverse of power & wealth. Said another way, there is no longer a > requirement to Dress to Impress at every opportunity. As a case in > point, the business suit here in Silicon Valley is rarely seen on any > but real estate agents, bankers and people pitching to VCs. The suit > is the marker of service & supplication, not prestige. > > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > CinBarnes@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 22:04:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N24gQ8000593 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:04:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N24JWj040442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:04:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N24GKu015632; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:04:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51312.mail.yahoo.com (web51312.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.122]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8N24CD8015568 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:04:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 97338 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Sep 2005 02:04:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=hc4KeP9lj51BqtfQj9JyiQL7gL5lVVAtQc80rDX64dx4zkejoQhfuushBp6MYVXduSJS2s+MbAV2rFNNOG+Y/oijcIL6+LZp7XIb/AetlsfoGlQJSOSIx+N7D9R/Lvo2tW+bInpTb0QT2FxjFSbuIwJyJg6i9vDowaL+Fj9+pJU= ; Message-ID: <20050923020407.97336.qmail@web51312.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51312.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:04:07 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:04:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1127434480.433348f01f35c@webmail.netspace.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO So far as silhouette, yes, the short skirt, but the square shoulder was really noticable in most 20th century fashion. Women's shoulders were shown as fairly square and broad from the mid-1910's on, even through Dior's "New Look". Men's were fairly squared up by 1900, and never really slumped. Can you tell I Don't have square shoulders? Great figure for the 1830-40's, not too bad for c.1400, but 20th century stuff? fooey. Ann in CT > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you > think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 22:18:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N2Ii7V000708 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:18:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N2IDcA041983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N2ICGj021664; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms042pub.verizon.net (vms042pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.42]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N2I8Ot021636 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:18:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([70.18.158.168]) by vms042.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IN800IRHZQ1U930@vms042.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:18:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:18:00 -0400 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: US Reenacting (was: why renaissance and not 18th century?) To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <004401c5bfe5$0565f0b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> <8C78DD64050E45A-E20-2CD3@FWM-R27.sysops.aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey all, thought I would jump onto this thread, and discuss both the original question,as well as the subthemes it seems to be inspiring. First there are 18th century reenactments in North America. I suspect in fact (though maybe incorrectly) that there are more 18th century reenactors in America then there are Renn Faire participants. Not more than there are ren faire gusests or customers however. Not more than there are SCA members either. 18th century is not limited in the US to places where it happened, though it happened in various different ways more than is often generally supposed by the average American. I in fact work in the 18th century, Tonight I was wearing silk. A fine dark blue silk suit edged in gold lace, with an embroidered white silk wastcoat. There are several various museums which use 18th century costumed employees or volunteers all along the eastern seaboard. Not just in America, but all the way from Florida up to Nova Scotia. Beyond that there are the Revolutionary war and the French Indian war reenactors. There are several thousands of these. They are of course found in very large numbers again all over the East. But they may also be found through out the old North West, many in the great lakes regions and there are even organizations in California. California also has some, but very little of its own Spanish 18th century reenacting as does some of the southwestern states. Of course like much of the reenacting in the US most of this is geared towards the war and not really the proper places for Silks. there rae however a number of small civilian organizations that engage in all sorts of activities often having nothing to do with war. There are also a number of 18th century dance organizations in various parts of the US. Many of these where 18th century dress to their balls and assemblies. There are the various black powder and rendevous organizations which include the 18th century (usually anything pre 1840). There are quitye a few pirate organizations as well, though these often are a conglmeration of periods from 1650 or so to 1750 or so. Even have known (and in fact participated with) two seperate Jacobite groups. The other matter, the subtheme I mentioned before, is regarding those who are wishing for other preiod opportunities. The U.S has a surprisingly large number of reenactment periods represented. We have romans, we have darl ages and vikings. We have medevials (both the more loosely interpreted SCA and more authentically driven groups). I belong to a Elizabethan Trayned Bande organization. The 17th century is represented the by far the greatest number of these interpreters are planted rather frimly in the middle of the decade. That being the English Civil War and the 30 years folks. Already mentioned the 18th century people. For the 19th century, there are the war of 1812 reenactors and Napaleonic reenactors. For some these are the same people but some of these units are French. One of my pal's is Napoleon! There are Mexican American War reenactors, of course Civil War renactors which is huge. There are various cowboy or gunfighter organizations. There are a number of Indian War groups. And yes, unlike what was suggested earlier there are British Colonial organizations. I have known people reenacting the Queen's soldiers in the Zulu, Nile, and Afghanistan campaigns. Though there numbers were not very large. The Nile group curiously was the largest. There are some people reenacting the Spanish American war, at least were for its big anniversery, not sure how they have survivied). WWI groups fight battles in both California and Pennsylvania with many of the various participants represented. I know of a group that reenacts the finian rebeillions of Ireland. WWII is rather large, and in some ways very impressive, since military hardware is often there as well. trucks halftrack tanks that sort of thing. Finally I have seen some reenactors who reenact Vietnam and lastly The SOviet invasion of Afghanistan. Pretty long list, and I am sure far from complete. I have only taken it upon myself to include organizations or periods that I have either been involved in (far too many of these) or that I have personally seen. I have included groups oif sevceral diffent sizes however. SOme of these are limited to may be a hadful of participants, others can field 15 or 16 thousand at an event Depending on where you live in the US, and how far you are willing to travel, their can be quite a lot of options available to you, though they are often limited to a military scope and situation. Of course, there may not be you interest represented, or perhaps war aint your thing! Well that is the point I want to make. Everyone of the things I just mentioned, was started by someone. You might just have to be that someone! It really isn't as hard as it sounds, though yo0u might need to keep your expectations small. I will give some examples of things I have been involved with. First, was the Social Daunse Irregulars. I am one of the three original members of the Committee that began this organization several years ago. Done simply because we wanted to dance Victorian in Southern California. This group has grown from or tiny first ball to providing three balls a year to a sold out capicity of 400 and some. The other were parties! These are easier, as long as your are willing to keep your expectations low and our patiant. My group of firends back home (Los Angeles) had regular parties, much like the poster in Seattle wants. We had three you could count on. A 1920s New Years Party, A July 4th 18th century Independence party, and a Antebellum South party. Besides these were a number of historic themes quite a few middle ages parties, Bastille Day, WWI tea, etc..This kind of thing is really simple. It can be as authentic or no as much as you like. The historic theme aspect of ours got better and better every year. This is in fact rather similiar to how the SCA started! Ideas are easy. Have a Victorian Tea, or a Revolutionary Dinner, or whatever. Your site may or may not be conisitant with the theme. Start in you modern house, and just hide things and add props, or maybe find places that will work. If your partioes are successful things will get better and easier. We ended up with some large tents. We did occasionally have parties in authentic period buildings. One of the participants even built a nondescript Inn out of an old shed. With changes of set dressings and props the period of this tavern could be changed dramatically. (It is in fact show in a book on how to plan medievial evnts and parties now!). Now maybe this isn't what you had in mind. Maybe you didn't want to "play" historic, but you wanted to teach the public. That two can be done, though it might be harder. If you contact various schools, musuems, libraries you may well find that there is interest in having such a "living history" for you more unusual event. Done a lot of that as well. In fact in time you are likely to get job offers. Pay to be on films, or to provide "themes' for corporate parties or fundraisers, opeining of historic movies, or special events at museums to support new exhibits. (Surprisingly the last might be an art mueseum as well as a history museum). Wow. Aftert looking at this I realize that I really am a history tart! Ron Carnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: why renaissance and not 18th century? >I would like to add to Fran's thoughtful comments that it has a lot to do >with our own sense of national heritage. People are often interested in >history mainly from the perspective of their own ancestors. The Civil War >is much more interesting when you find out your great-great-grandfather >fought in it. Historical reenactment groups tend to reenact what happened >in their general location; for example, here in Missouri there are a lot of >Civil War and pioneer reenactors, but I've never come across any RevWar >people here. In New England, though, I would expect the Revolutionary War >to predominate. Maybe the reason location has such an impact is because in >the place where something happened you have the highest concentration of >descendants of the people involved in the historical event. > > In other words, we don't celebrate fancy, European-style 17th or 18th > century events because our ancestors, or at least the people who shaped > our society, were already forming a separate identity here during those > centuries. We can celebrate Renaissance England because it was still our > ancestor in that period, but not the Battle of Waterloo or the English > colonial period, because by then England was no longer a part of our own > heritage. > > I hope I'm making sense. I'm not a sociologist. And I, too, wish there was > a forum where I could explore centuries outside the realm of the SCA, the > Renaissance Festival, or the Civil War. I'd love to see what I look like > in a robe d'anglaise... > > Tea Rose > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 23:26:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N3QGwB001554 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:26:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N3PcTt049174 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:25:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N3PanI049860; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:25:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N3PWgK049791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:25:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB39E1CDD48 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 32293-08 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 03A801CDD2A for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ca01c5bfee$6a9a83c0$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <68.5e5aac11.30647a33@aol.com> <433338DE.501@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:25:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? > > There we disagree, because I think this is an artificial distinction. It's > basically a marketing distinction. Like "real" literature getting reviewed > in the _New York Times Book Review_, and "trashy"--but bestselling--novels > getting reviewed in a great many less pretentious venues. Having worked > in the book world, I could position lot of novels as either one or the > other merely by writing a few paragraphs of back cover copy and sending > review copies to a certain group of publications. I'd still rather read Pride and Prejudice or The Pickwick Papers than the latest Diana Gabaldon novel. Which I think brings back the point that we are too close to the twentieth century yet to look at it objectively. Pickwick and Oliver Twist were serial novels, hardly considered "literature" in their time. Shakespeare was just a playwright. But how many other novelists and playwrights from those eras do we still read? What will be the contribution the twentieth century made that will still influence the world a hundred years from now? Four hundred years from now? Will people still be wearing blue jeans? I'm talking culture, not scientific, though science certainly has made a HUGE impact on our culture. Just please tell me not everyone will speak in internet shorthand.. Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 23:26:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N3Qxn4001572 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N3QT11049361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:26:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N3QTA1050242; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:26:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N3QPXj050138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:26:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3C71CDD48 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 31286-08 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:15:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BB86B1CDD3D for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:15:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d101c5bfee$8c729b90$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:26:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? > > In a message dated 9/22/2005 7:06:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > fran@lavoltapress.com writes: > > The works of Homer and Shakespeare (if they were even single authors, > which is another issue entirely) were pop culture in their day. > > > Yes yes yes....but so were a bunch of playwrights and poets, who were > probably MORE popular, that we will never [thank goodness] hear of. Time > weeds out > pop culture for you so only the "real" culture remains. Remember, Bach > was > considered old fashion and Euripides lost the play contests. lol...Read ALL mail before weighing in on a subject.!! Dianne > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 22 23:56:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N3uoRu001952 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N3uSLq052492 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:56:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N3uQnF062585; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:56:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N3uLUe062540 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:56:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-186.sonic.net [209.148.114.186]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N3uJmo010118 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:56:20 -0700 Message-ID: <43337CE6.7040403@lavoltapress.com> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:56:22 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <68.5e5aac11.30647a33@aol.com> <433338DE.501@lavoltapress.com> <00ca01c5bfee$6a9a83c0$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> In-Reply-To: <00ca01c5bfee$6a9a83c0$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I'd still rather read Pride and Prejudice or The Pickwick Papers than > the latest Diana Gabaldon novel. > > Which I think brings back the point that we are too close to the > twentieth century yet to look at it objectively. Pickwick and Oliver > Twist were serial novels, hardly considered "literature" in their > time. Shakespeare was just a playwright. But how many other novelists > and playwrights from those eras do we still read? It depends on who "we" are. If you're an English Lit student, or have similar tastes, you read many more Elizabethan poets and playwrights than Shakespeare (the novel was not an established form then) and many more Victorian novelists than Dickens. Most of whom are considered "literary greats," but many of whom were just hacking out popular culture that sold when they wrote the stuff. The thing about the 20th century is, that so much more has been published, that it's much harder for the works of any fiction writer to emerge from the sea of other stuff as even existing, let alone great or not. I'll tell you who I think the greatest 20th century writer is so far: Gene Wolfe. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 00:29:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N4TZea002273 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:29:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N4T0Pc055302 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:29:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N4SvbF075393; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:28:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N4Sqbd075346 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7835D237 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050922205732.03668da0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:58:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabet... In-Reply-To: <208.9f5d424.306422e3@aol.com> References: <208.9f5d424.306422e3@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 08:08 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >However, while we're on the subject of Mary de Guise....what WAS she >wearing????? and who did her hair????? YUK! I don't know, but I think it was intentionally meant to make her appear as "EVIL" and as bad a person as they visually could do. Maybe even make her seem power mad or something. It was pathetic. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 00:29:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N4TZfU002272 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:29:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N4T0tS055303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:29:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N4SuU4075387; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:28:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N4SqhE075351 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEC905D2B8 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050922205912.03660678@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:15:40 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Mary de Guise (was: A New Programme to watch out for -"Elizabet... In-Reply-To: <002301c5bf8d$d69ffbb0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <208.9f5d424.306422e3@aol.com> <002301c5bf8d$d69ffbb0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > And was she really a worrior >And was she really a female warrior? A female warrior? No, not really. Mary de Guise was a French Catholic Queen-Regent, living and ruling a country (Scotland) that was becoming heavily Protestant (at least in the lowlands). Her biggest enemy was the fire & brimstone preacher John Knox, and she had to rule Scotland in the name of her daughter Mary, who became Queen while an infant of 6 days (iirc). If Mary de Guise had battles she had to run, they were run by the men of her nobility. In suppressing the Protestants, a civil war occurred, and Mary was eventually deposed as Regent in 1559. On her death bed in 1560 (don't know how she died, but it was not of poison) she urged both sides to make peace and support her daughter Mary Queen of Scots. Elizabeth I became Queen of England in 1558, and Mary de Guise was deposed in 1559, so there isn't much actual time there for MdG to actually plot anything against QE1. And Mary QoS, at the urging of her father in law, the King of France, actually claimed the throne of England as rightful Catholic heir, vs the "bastard" Protestant Queen Elizabeth. But that's a whole other kettlefish. There is so much real history of such an interesting nature that making things up, like MdG plotting in wicked fashion, or the poison dress, just seriously detracts from the movie for those of us, like myself, who enjoys historical movies. And we wonder why people that go to Ren-faires have such horrid notions of English history. It's all today's public understands... what's made up in "historical movies", and the public takes it as fact. But that's just my opinion. Kimiko Small ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, safety first instead of duty first, a love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life. This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live unless it is a good place for all of us to live." ~ Teddy Roosevelt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 00:29:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N4Tred002285 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:29:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N4TVSt055403 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:29:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N4TVB2075678; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:29:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N4Sr37075354 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951295D294 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:28:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050922211554.03650b48@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:28:10 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Mary of Guise In-Reply-To: References: <200509221307.j8MD7XeH008175@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:15 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >As a Catholic, of course I was bemused by the very idea of Elizabeth >wearing white makeup and deciding never to marry in order to give England a >"new" Virgin Mary -- surrounded by weeping serving maids, no less! Read _The Cult of Elizabeth_ by Roy Strong (isbn 0-7126-6481-5) That's exactly what Strong suggests was done, since the Catholic faith was no longer the state faith. It's a lot more complicated it would seem than that, but Elizabeth became an icon for her people. It just didn't happen overnight, however. This is taken out of context, I know... but it gives some idea of what the "idea" was. "Eliza the sun, the moon, the pelican, the phoenix, the rainbow -- fragile like a young girl in virgin white, like Spenser's vision of her as Cynthia, 'a crowne of lillies/Upon a virgin brydes adorned head'." (Strong, 54) Kimiko Small ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, safety first instead of duty first, a love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life. This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live unless it is a good place for all of us to live." ~ Teddy Roosevelt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 01:14:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N5EnkT002766 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:14:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N5ESU4059954 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:14:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N5ERoU094348; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:14:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc14.comcast.net [216.148.227.89]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N5EOke094291 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:14:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.189 ([204.127.197.189]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc14) with SMTP id <2005092305141801400ofrefe>; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:14:18 +0000 Received: from [67.183.89.48] by 204.127.197.189; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:14:17 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Costume Groups in Seattle (was RE: playing in period societies?) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:14:17 +0000 Message-Id: <092320050514.27284.43338F29000DCDFE00006A9422092246270809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Bless you!!!!! I'll look up the brcg and would love the info on the other group SWIT. I can hardly wait to spread my historical research and costuming wings! Elena/Gia > > > If there are 'Societies' in the USA (Seattle, Washington area) that I > could begin playing in I'd love to know about them. > > *snip* > > Ask and ye shall receive: > > www.brcg.org > > We are a group that studies every aspect of costuming, from > extrapolations of the stone age to futuristic fantasy, with a lot of > historical fact and folly in between. There is another group, Somewhere > in Time, Unlimited, which is more heavily influenced by historical > costume after the SCA period, but I don't think they have a web > presence. I can find their address if you would like it. The BRCG is the > local branch of the International Costumers Guild, while S.I.T.U. was > started by local folks in the SCA who wanted more from the later > periods. > > Kate McClure > aka StitchWitch > > Beads? What beads . . . ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 01:47:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N5lPJF003175 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:47:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N5l1Cf062479 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:47:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N5kuY2007326; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxout2.iskon.hr (qmailr@mxout2.iskon.hr [213.191.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8N5ki3Y007224 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jkale@public.srce.hr) Received: (qmail 20136 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2005 07:46:42 +0200 X-Remote-IP: 213.191.142.123 Received: from unknown (HELO mx.iskon.hr) (213.191.142.123) by mxout2.iskon.hr with SMTP; 23 Sep 2005 07:46:42 +0200 Received: (qmail 20947 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2005 07:46:42 +0200 X-Remote-IP: 213.202.66.222 Received: from st01-221.dialin.iskon.hr (HELO jadran-th68nctg.public.srce.hr) (213.202.66.222) by mx.iskon.hr with SMTP; 23 Sep 2005 07:46:42 +0200 Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.0.20050923074536.01ca7038@public.carnet.hr> X-Sender: jkale@public.carnet.hr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.1.1 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:46:54 +0200 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com From: "J. Kale" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] link: searchable catalogue-TextileMuse X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Subject: TextileMuse, the searchable online catalogue of Arthur D. Jenkins >Library collections >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:46:09 -0400 >From: "Sumru Krody" > >TextileMuse, the searchable online catalogue of Arthur D. Jenkins >Library collections, is now accessible via the Textile Museum's Web site >(www.textilemuseum.org). To search the >online catalogue, visit www.textilemuseum.org/textilemuse.html. The >catalogue is also part of the Online Computer Library Center (OCLC), a >worldwide library cooperative. TextileMuse provides researchers and the >general public with a full catalogue of the Library's collection of >materials related to the textile arts >=20 >The Textile Museum's Arthur D. Jenkins Library is the leading center for >textile studies on the East Coast. The holdings of the library include >books, serials, scholarly dissertations, pamphlets and auction >catalogues, slides and videocassettes relating to the textile arts. The >volumes detail the history of rugs, textiles and costume, and include >manuals with information about the many techniques for creating, >coloring and embellishing textiles and clothing. The Library also >maintains a collection of cultural history literature, comprised of >anthropology, archaeology, history, religion and travelogues that >parallel the Museum's collections in the Middle East, Asia, Africa and >the indigenous weaving of the Americas. In addition, the Library has >considerable literature in the field of textile conservation, >contemporary fiber art and, to a lesser extent, European textiles. The >Library also indexes journal articles on textiles, rugs and costumes > >____________________________________ >Sumru Belger Krody >Associate Curator >Eastern Hemisphere Collections > >The Textile Museum >2320 S Street, NW >Washington, DC 20008-4008 > >Phone: 202/667 0441 ext. 37 >Fax: 202/483 0994 > >www.textilemuseum.org _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 03:01:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N71Gn0017795 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:01:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N70fDL067166 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:00:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N70dAM033581; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:00:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N70aE4033563 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:00:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EIhXr0OAr-0004up; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:00:31 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01c5c00c$8181dfc0$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:00:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a very good topic Albert Cat. It is a very important question to discuss. Thank you for asking the question. Several years ago I offered a challenge to h-costume to name a fashion since 1957 that was original design. I will now offer the challenge back in more time... lets try since 1949. Not a textile, accessory, or method of clothing... a new silhouette. The reason I am changing from the 1950s to the 1940s... after my extensive research into fashions from the 1890s though the 1920s... most of the 1950s fashions can be seen in the 1890s through 1929. If you think the "New Look" was new, do a search on eBay for fashion images in the "Art" section using the keyword "Bon Ton." These are the designers' fashion plates from 1910s-mid 1920s. Look for a plate from May 1920 by the designer Lanvin. You will think you are looking at 1940s/50 wasp waist. I think someone on this list pointed out to me that Dior's mother was fashionable in the 1890s. The more you look at the styles of the 1890s, you can see where Dior was inspired. So far in my research, Lanvin is the earliest designer of "The New Look." But... and there is always a but... forgot about this recent find. It kinda blew me away...1896 ladies gown by George Henry Lee of Liverpool, England. You can see a thumbnail of it on my updates page on the Library. Go to http://www.costumegallery.com/updates.htm and scroll down to the date July 18. The gown is the first one of the first row. I have seen so many 1950s evening gown in this same style. If I remember from my previous challenge... we came to the conclusion, what goes around comes around. I laugh so much at my 14 y.o. daughter when she tells me, "You don't know anything about fashion." I gave her this same challenge and then show her where the style was worn fashion before. Her first answer was mini-length skirts. Mini-length was worn in Ancient Egypt. Designer logos on the exterior of clothing... The designer Patou was the first to do this with a female tennis star in the early 1920s. The competitiveness of the designers Patou and Chanel really deserve a lot of credit for how the fashion industry is today. Patou would do one new thing in the industry and Chanel would try to out-do him, and vice versa. This competition even came to the way the business of fashion is today. An interesting book about this is named Patou by Martin Battersby. Great book on how the fashion industry grew. The more you get into the researching a time period in depth, you realize that several styles were popular in one time period. During the 20th Century, I think the most change in style occurred during WW1. Most people believe that the 1920s was when the skirt length changed. But the shorter skirts can be seen in common fashion magazines during WW1. Also if you look at the very fashionable girls in the Cosby Show... those very styles were in fashion magazines during WW1. It is almost like the designers copied them. Even the very popular gunny-sack dresses from the 1990s... same thing shown common fashion magazines during WW1. I think Michaela hit the nail on the head for a principle thing to frame the fashions of 20th Century . I think it will be remembered more for the various advances in the textile industry. A couple of years ago, I took a month-long course at our local DuPont factory. This is plant is of the largest DuPont factories in the world. I was floored by the technology used in the factory. Employees were traveling around the plant on hover-crafts. Computers would move gigantic rolls of textiles from one side of the huge manufacturing building to another. The guild warned us to not get in the way of the rolls... the computer will not stop transporting rolls for people in the way. Each week we moved to another building and watched the entire manufacturing process of another textile. BTW, for anyone wanting to take this DuPont course, it is offered once a year to Boy/Girl Scouts and their leaders once a year for their textiles badges. I think the child has to be 12 y.o to take the course. Another very important thing for the 20th Century is mass production of clothing. Mass production of men's clothing came in place during the mid 19th Century. But mass clothing production truly didn't take off until the 1920s for women. By the late 1970s, mass production made it cheaper to purchase ready-made clothing than made-at-home. I really don't think any one silhouette will represent the entire 20th Century. (Is this what you are looking for Albert Cat?) Because of mass production, the fashion seasons' (industry term) changed annually in the early 1900s to changing to six or more seasons in present day/end of the 20th Century. Fashions have changing so quickly since the 1980s because of advances in communication and manufacturing technology. Fax machines, internet, computers, shipping speed advances, money exchanging overnight in banks, have made the process quicker than what used in 1900. Today the factory-to-store time frame can happen in a few days in the last decade of the century. I remember well in 1995 some of the lessons in a Fashion Forecasting class in college. One lesson was how fast a runway fashion at a show in the fashion capitals of the world, could be in a Walmart in little time. Think of the manufacturers watching the Emmys or Oscars and seeing the dresses knocked off and shown on Entertainment Tonight the following night. This production speed has been happening for the past 15 years. My Forecasting professor called the MTV generation effect. Think of how fast a scene, set dressing, and clothing changes in a music video. We are all part of the MTV generation. We want everything fast and then throw it away in a short amount of time. We are all guilty of throw it away instead of repairing products. Mass production makes it so much cheaper to purchase a new product instead of repairing. Think of your VCR or TV. How many times you have had it repaired, compared to just purchasing a new one in the past 20 years. How many times have you taken your shoes to be repaired in the past two to three decades? The majority of our MTV generation does this throw it away instead of repairing clothing. Look at all the clothing in thrift stores. There is so much clothing donated to stores like Goodwill. They only keep the best of the donated clothes. The others are bundled in very large bundles and shipped to foreign countries to be recycled into other textile products. My library newsletter definition for Thursday was *classic fashion*. LOL! I hadn't opened my regular email before sending out the daily definition and saw this email topic There are several classic fashions that have been around for the past 20 years. Some classics like the Izod style shirt has been around for decades. I have one dress that I only wear to my children's high school graduation. This same dress has been in style in 1996, 1999, 2001, 2004, & 2005 and probably 2010 when my last one child graduates. A classic style survives years. We thought in the 1970s and 80s nothing else could possibly be new in fashion design with denim. "Blue jean" fabric is concerned a classic ... the past five years we are seeing the same designs with denim that was in 70s. The straight leg/boot cut blue jeans with the very tight fit of the 1980s, was made popular by Marilyn Monroe in a film. (Can't remember the movie title.) If you look closely in the film, Philadelphia story, the pants that Katherine Hepburn wears is very similar to the *baggy* pants (not droopy) of the 1970s and 1990s. A Hairstyle Recycle Exercise: A good example of what goes around comes around in fashion. Go to http://www.costumegallery.com/Hairstyles/Longhair/Women/menu.htm This is a free access area of my Library. Click on the thumbnail, Ladies Long Hair (lower right image). A thumbnail menu will show up on the left. I want you to do something before you click on any of the thumbnails on the left menu. You have an assignment and you need to read all the directions below. READ THESE DIRECTIONS FIRST: Click on a thumbnail, an enlargement will appear on the right. Scroll down slowly. Look at the lady's hairstyle closely. DO NOT pay attention to the costume... put your hand over it if needed. I want you to think of a time in the 20th Century when her hairstyle was worn. Do not scroll down the webpage and cheat to see the photos' date, until you come up with a 20th Century decade for the hairstyle. After you have decided on a 20th Century decade for the hairstyle, scroll down and see our estimated date of the fashion within a five year span. Lady #8 will blow your mind. How many of you wore this very same style? BTW, if you run across the ladies with really long hair, put your hand over her hair below the waistline, then guess a modern decade. Now please go on and click on the thumbnail images. If you think that was fun... go look on the Lady #11 in the Ringlets section, or Lady #8 (put your hand over the long ringlets). She screams 1960s helmet hair! Oh, I am going to make everyone feel old on the list... Last month, my daughter went shopping for school clothes. She was thrilled that she had the latest craze in teenage fashion.... jogging suits in several solid colors! I could not stop laughing when she proudly showed off her new school clothes to me. Made me want to sing Olivia Newton John song, "Let's Get Physical!" What goes around comes around! And she still says Mom doesn't know a single thing about fashion! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 04:01:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N81nMV031431 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 04:01:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N81B4P070471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:01:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N819QZ053710; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:01:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N81642053693 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:01:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8N81A8Q011383 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 04:01:10 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.47.110] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-47-110.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.47.110]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N810Tn290458 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 04:01:05 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050923004629.026ff768@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:49:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century In-Reply-To: <003f01c5c00c$8181dfc0$6400a8c0@Penny> References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I will now offer the challenge back in more time... lets try since >1949. Not a textile, accessory, or method of clothing... a new silhouette. I was going to say shoes of molded plastic. But, as for new silhouettes, what about some of Miyaki's stuff? A lot of it's not even body shaped. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 05:30:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N9Uo2U019576 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:30:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N9U9B1076783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:30:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N9U7nL085499; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:30:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N9TxoZ085354 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:30:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A54AB5D27 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050923021306.035e92e8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:23:49 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: US Reenacting (was: why renaissance and not 18th century?) In-Reply-To: <004401c5bfe5$0565f0b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> References: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> <8C78DD64050E45A-E20-2CD3@FWM-R27.sysops.aol.com> <004401c5bfe5$0565f0b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 07:18 PM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >I suspect in fact (though maybe incorrectly) that there are more 18th >century reenactors in America then there are Renn Faire participants. Not >more than there are ren faire gusests or customers however. Not more than >there are SCA members either. Well, in my neck of Central California, there are far more Ren-faire re-enactors than any other time frame. I know of Civil War, Gold Rush/Western/Cowboy, WWI and WWII, and a small smattering here and there in time frames (again, mostly war settings). But when it comes to Ren-faire actors, I would estimate 800-1000 +/- actors that have shown up to local ren-faires and were checked in with arm-bands on any one weekend. And that's at the smaller faires that only go on for the one weekend (I used to help run Hanford Renaissance of Kings, one of the smallest, yet rather popular small ren-faires.) I would love to be involved in other time frames for re-enactment and costuming, but unless I want to drive 4+ hours to Sacramento, the Bay Area, or Los Angeles, with small children in tow, there isn't much available in my area. However, our small local costuming group is working on doing other eras, and we are starting small... with a Victorian Tea up in Oakhurst sometime this upcoming spring, and hopefully it will grow from there. Kimiko Small ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, safety first instead of duty first, a love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life. This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live unless it is a good place for all of us to live." ~ Teddy Roosevelt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 05:49:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8N9nesl021771 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:49:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8N9nE5g081424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N9nCOu092764; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepc.post.tele.dk (pfepc.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.237]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8N9n8H9092747 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:49:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24789.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.137]) by pfepc.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id 8C79F262858 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:49:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001501c5c024$0c862240$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:49:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] why 16th and not 18th X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gosh what a mess i have made with that question. I dont have the time pressent to read all your topics, my train leaves in 2 hours going to join the Gustavian Society, and had to pack my things. This time i will wear my green embroidered court suit, and i have changed my wig to another hairstyle. Washed it gently in hair shampoo and set the curls with hairgel. Gosh just remembered i didnt pack my shoes and my cloak, must do that emediately. Returns sunday evening, so there will be a lot of reading to take care of. Stockholm gets chilly in the evenings this time of year. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 08:01:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NC1WMw005738 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:01:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NC0tUA002967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:00:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NC0pQR043132; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:00:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NC0mKc043027 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:00:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id AE690194; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:00:41 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.145 ([209.131.80.145] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 23 Sep 05 12:00:37 -0000 Message-ID: <00f001c5c036$e34a6e00$915083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:03:59 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Chanel, Dior,Bali, and Levi Strauss Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century > All this talk about like one century or another....... > > Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing > "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known for, you > think? What garment? > > I have my own answers but I wonder what others think. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 10:08:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NE8Dkk007261 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:08:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NE72SG012783 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:07:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NE70SX000869; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:07:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8NE6uCS000766 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:06:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBVJC75A4TQ2WJ for (sender ); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:05:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K5LBWPEK; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:05:36 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:03:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Message-ID: <20050923.070525.976.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 2:1:2651698082 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgsh9KGxdMjuKZncL8yEQCS8= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > winkle pickers. ??? arlys _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 10:19:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NEJL6U007440 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:19:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NEIVV8014530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:18:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NEIU0j006688; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:18:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from thog.systems.wvu.edu (thog.systems.wvu.edu [157.182.232.210]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NEIQoT006585 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:18:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUGW01.wvu.edu (wvugw01.wvu.edu [157.182.215.110]) by thog.systems.wvu.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NEIKgX018193 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:18:20 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from rdonalds@wvu.edu) Received: from WVUDOM1-MTA by WVUGW01.wvu.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:18:20 -0400 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.1 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:18:02 -0400 From: "Rhonda Donaldson" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Come Back X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi, Come back, I miss your expertise! Rhonda Rhonda Donaldson LTA II e-Reserves Jr. Guru in Training Circulation Department Downtown Campus Library P O Box 6069 Morgantown, WV 26506 293-4040 x4094 rhonda.donaldson@mail.wvu.edu "Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." --Frank Herbert "The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams." - Eleanor Roosevelt _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 10:30:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NEUmJ1007549 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:30:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NEU7G9016300 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:30:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NETa5D013163; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:29:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com (mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com [66.192.123.47]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NETWMQ013106 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from adelaide@genevahistoricalsociety.com) Received: from [192.168.0.5] [72.43.68.175] by mail.genevahistoricalsociety.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.15) id A02662A013A; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:24:38 -0400 Message-ID: <433410FA.9040401@genevahistoricalsociety.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:28:10 -0400 From: Anne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.1) Gecko/20040707 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO To learn about the evolution of Santa Claus and other Christmas traditions, get a copy of Stephen Nissenbaum's The Battle for Christmas. The book is written by a historian and focuses on the social impetus for creating the contemporary traditions of Christmas. I read this book about four years ago as background for the children's Christmas program I run at our museum. As I recall Nissenbaum does discuss the evolution of Santa's dress and the Nast version is not the original conception. In the Moore poem Santa reflects the pre-19th century image of Christmas--a celebration of disorder and misrule favored by the poor, i.e. "the peddler opening his pack" was not originally a representative of the upper classes or the establishment. According to Nissenbaum the child-centered celebration of Christmas was promoted by Moore and others of his upper class NYC set as a reaction to the increasing social disorder evident in the city in the 1840s. Moore was horrified at the behavior of the city's working classes at Christmas--originally a celebration more akin to todays Halloween and New Years celebrations. Anyway, it is a great book on this holiday. For early images of Santa Claus, there is an illustrated edition of A Visit From Saint Nicholas that was published in 1848. The drawings show Santa wearing breeches, stockings, buckled shoes, a waistcoat, and a fur trimmed coat and a fur hat. We don't have a copy of the original, but it is reproduced in a Dover publication of historic Christmas information. I don't know if that is still in print and I don't have the citation handy, but if you want it I can get it for you. Good luck. By the way, people have been complaining about the commercialization of Christmas since at least the 1850s, so I guess everything old is new again! Anne -- Anne Dealy Director of Education and Public Information Geneva Historical Society Geneva, NY adelaideatgenevahistoricalsociety.com (be sure to change "at" to "@") _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 10:33:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NEXavk007578 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NEXBuY016907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:33:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NEX7Tc015266; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:33:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NEX3sN015181 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:33:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j8NEWvS07123 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:32:57 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) In-Reply-To: <20050923.070525.976.0.Cley@juno.com> References: <20050923.070525.976.0.Cley@juno.com> Message-Id: <30F45AF3-257F-4154-9B11-68D6E9387861@alfalfapress.com> From: Althea Turner Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:32:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Ok, I just HAD to know... so I googled it Winkle pickers are pointy toed shoes. http://www.edu.pe.ca/gulfshore/pop/fashion/50's.htm http://podiatry.curtin.edu.au/cool.html http://cgi.peak.org/~jeremy/search.cgi?British=running%20shoes Althea On Sep 23, 2005, at 7:03 AM, Cynthia J Ley wrote: >> winkle pickers Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 10:41:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NEf8G1007694 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:41:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NEeaYj018071 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:40:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NEeUs5019712; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:40:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f36.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NEeQnU019616 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:40:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:40:21 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:40:20 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509231430.j8NEUAxa013553@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:40:20 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2005 14:40:21.0046 (UTC) FILETIME=[B9663D60:01C5C04C] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Cynthia J Ley > > winkle pickers. >??? A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 11:06:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NF65kZ008007 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:06:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NF5cgc023220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:05:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NF5WZf035985; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:05:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8NF5NMZ035826 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:05:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 92080 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2005 15:05:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2005 15:05:17 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050923160427.01d308a0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:05:21 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century In-Reply-To: References: <200509231430.j8NEUAxa013553@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 15:40 23/09/2005, you wrote: >>From: Cynthia J Ley >> > winkle pickers. >>??? > >A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. > >Marc And women's. They are currently to be seen in shoe shops in Europe as a "new" fashion. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 11:13:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NFDTEv008063 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:13:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NFChC1024132 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:12:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NFCcEv040923; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:12:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from alexander.concentric.com (alexander.concentric.com [207.155.248.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NFCSUZ040803 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:12:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by alexander.concentric.com id LAA06881; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:12:25 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200509231512.LAA06881@alexander.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:12:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200509230429.j8N4SvBK075392@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8NFCSUZ040803 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] the 20th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ---- wrote: > Pants, especially pants on women. Possibly blue jeans. **Excellent example. Blue jeans first came into being around 1849. Then were popularized in the 1950's and have remained in some form or another since then. Remember bell bottoms? Remember having to have Designer labels? Also interesting that this is a garment worn by men, women and children, rich and poor, fancy versions and work versions. I sometimes think about what reenactors might wear 400 years in the future. Maybe jeans and a t-shirt will be the future version of T-tunic, i.e. the basic garb for reenactors. Hmmm...T-tunic and T-shirt...coincidence? ;-) > The thing about the 20th century is, that so much more has been > published, that it's much harder for the works of any fiction writer to > emerge from the sea of other stuff as even existing, let alone great or not. **Excellent point as well. There is so much, what can stand out? I know I love both Diana Gabaldon and Dickens. Who would you say are the stand-out writers of the 19th century? > > I'll tell you who I think the greatest 20th century writer is so far: > Gene Wolfe. **Hmmm...not familiar with him. I'll have to hit the library. THanks for the lead. Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 12:29:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NGTtsn009095 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:29:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NGTG0F032258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:29:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NGSxhS093311; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NGSnSR093104 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0INA00KJH3314G00@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:28:10 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes. It is a work in progress. I HOPE to have it done in January, but there are no guarantees... Catriona -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of WickedFrau Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:52 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Eleanora's Dress Drat, I think I did see this earlier. Is this the thing that isn't published yet? monica spence wrote: >It is a very heavily researched historical novel about Cosimo and Eleonora. >Dame Catriona MacDuff (Monica Spence) > > >What is the manuscript you speak of Monica? I missed that part. > >Saragrace > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 13:15:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NHF44d009666 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NHEOEX037330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:14:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NHE1Jg025140; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:14:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NHDOuN024772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:13:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-178.sonic.net [209.148.114.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NHDLT5011681 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:13:22 -0700 Message-ID: <433437B2.4010607@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:13:22 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> <003f01c5c00c$8181dfc0$6400a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <003f01c5c00c$8181dfc0$6400a8c0@Penny> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > > Several years ago I offered a challenge to h-costume to name a fashion > since 1957 that was original design. I will now offer the challenge > back in more time... lets try since 1949. Penny, I don't know why you are presenting h-costume with "challenges," in classroom style, rather than just discussing topics. > Not a textile, accessory, or method of clothing... a new silhouette. > The reason I am changing from the 1950s to the 1940s... after my > extensive research into fashions from the 1890s though the 1920s... > most of the 1950s fashions can be seen in the 1890s through 1929. If you break it down as coarsely as you are doing, there _cannot_ be any more new silhouettes; if you do things like imply that all wasp-waisted fashions are basically the same. Geometrically speaking, there just _aren't_ that many possibilities. Nonetheless, "New Look" fashions are instantly recognizable as such, not mid 19th century or any other wasp-waisted period. Early 19th-century fashions are recognizable as not ancient Greek, and so on. There can be a new style, without there being a new silhouette. Two 20th-century trends that are rather new, if not exactly silhouettes: Fewer and less bulky clothes overall, particularly on women. Women wearing not only short skirts (and pants) but bare arms and low necks in the daytime. Even wearing lingerie, or tops and dresses that look like lingerie, as the visible layer of clothing. OK, there was the late 18th century chemise dress--but camis and slip dresses are skimpier. It's not the first time in history that clothing was reduced, as it were; but it's the most it's been reduced in Western society for a long time as mainstream fashion, worn by perfectly respectable women and accepted by everyone. (When you look at primitive societies, of course, there were lots of them wearing even less.) Also, the "deconstructed" look worn intentionally, not out of poverty; even expensively purchased. Things like "fray" skirts and not-just-asymmetrical-but-ragged hems on tops and skirts, high-contrast patches on clothes even if there was never a hole there, intentional tears in clothes. > I laugh so much at my 14 y.o. daughter when she tells me, "You don't > know anything about fashion." I gave her this same challenge and then > show her where the style was worn fashion before. > > The more you get into the researching a time period in depth, you > realize that several styles were popular in one time period. Penny, h-costume is a group of people who have been studying historic fashion for some time. > We are all part of the MTV generation. I've never seen MTV in my life and nothing whatever could induce me to do so. I don't even watch TV. > We want everything fast and then throw it away in a short amount of > time. We are all guilty of throw it away instead of repairing products. Not me, I'm a repair-it-until-it-totally-dies person. And h-costume has lots of members who restore vintage or antique clothes, who hand-sew clothes, and so on. > . Look at all the clothing in thrift stores. There is so much > clothing donated to stores like Goodwill. They only keep the best of > the donated clothes. The others are bundled in very large bundles and > shipped to foreign countries to be recycled into other textile products. H-costume members do a fair amount of shopping in thrift stores. > > > Oh, I am going to make everyone feel old on the list... Last month, my > daughter went shopping for school clothes. She was thrilled that she > had the latest craze in teenage fashion.... jogging suits in several > solid colors! I could not stop laughing when she proudly showed off > her new school clothes to me. Made me want to sing Olivia Newton John > song, "Let's Get Physical!" What goes around comes around! And she > still says Mom doesn't know a single thing about fashion! > I've never been quite sure who Olivia Newton John is, but I don't think I really want to know. I think she has something to do with music? but I don't listen to modern pop or rock or rap music, whatever the thing is now. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 14:03:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NI31wf010250 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:03:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NI2UoV043173 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:02:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NI14xc058647; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:02:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NHxnsA057736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:00:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0017.floodcity.net ([198.93.211.17]:2382 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1EIrpt-0001gt-9o for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:59:50 -0400 Message-ID: <43344290.2080700@floodcity.net> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:59:44 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century References: <200509231430.j8NEUAxa013553@net.indra.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050923160427.01d308a0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050923160427.01d308a0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Suzi Clarke wrote: >>> > winkle pickers. >> >> A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. >> >> Marc > > And women's. They are currently to be seen in shoe shops in Europe as a > "new" fashion. > > Suzi > > Hmmm, my daughters have been wearing them here in Pennsylvania for almost two years now. Nasty looking things. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 15:05:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NJ5QLN011079 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:05:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NJ4Zfk050986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJ4R0o003907; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:04:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJ4PUE003868 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:04:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8NJ4T8Q004073 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:04:29 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.47.110] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-47-110.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.47.110]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NJ4J66564526 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:04:23 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050923120007.036f40d0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:00:45 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century In-Reply-To: <43344290.2080700@floodcity.net> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050923160427.01d308a0@127.0.0.1> <200509231430.j8NEUAxa013553@net.indra.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050923160427.01d308a0@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>>> > winkle pickers. >>> >>>A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. >>> >>>Marc >>And women's. They are currently to be seen in shoe shops in Europe as a >>"new" fashion. >>Suzi >Hmmm, my daughters have been wearing them here in Pennsylvania for almost >two years now. Nasty looking things. I got a pair, at a thrift store, for use as Wicked Witch shoes for like Halloween. For that they're perfect. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 15:15:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NJFZLJ011170 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:15:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NJFBp5052216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:15:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJELHI010677; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:14:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m20.mx.aol.com (imo-m20.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJCLHt009379 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:12:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.20a.a118080 (2519) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:12:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:12:13 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/23/2005 11:16:23 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, fran@lavoltapress.com writes: I've never been quite sure who Olivia Newton John is, but I don't think I really want to know. I think she has something to do with music? but I don't listen to modern pop or rock or rap music, whatever the thing is now. My opinion is that if you don't understand MTV, VHS, Hip-Hop and the whole youth music culture your are probably incomplete in your assessment of what is going on with "fashion" in our culture. We no longer have one fashion which everyone tries to copy within their economic class. We have a fascination with youth sub-culture and you won't get that without music videos, etc. on these channels. There is a world culture now, like never before. We are truly becoming a world village with exchange of styles reinterpreted. Look at the Tokyo street culture for a creative take on Western fashion. The couture houses no longer dictate fashion. It comes from everywhere. Has anyone else noticed the recent fascination with death? What's up with that? Fashion, however you define it, has always been a reflection of the cultural and sub-cultural hegemony in Western Civilization. It's often referred to as "Zeitgeist". Meaning it can only flower in the historic and socio-political environment of its time. So if something is, indeed, revisited (and it's never exactly the same), how is that reflected in what is going on in the culture? Sorry to be so effusive, but I am currently teaching a class I have labeled "Clothing as Metaphor" which deals with this specific issue. I just spent three hours in that class discussing war and emancipation and its relation to fashion in the 20th century, so am interested in the thread. By the way, if anyone is interested, we are using Fashion as Communication by Malcolm Barnard as a text. I am looking forward to the additional discussion. Cheryl Odom College of Santa Fe _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 15:27:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NJRi0s011336 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:27:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NJRDJ6053685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:27:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJRAef019521; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:27:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vms044pub.verizon.net (vms044pub.verizon.net [206.46.252.44]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJR5uv019457 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:27:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from r.carnegie@verizon.net) Received: from owner85a4f9e93 ([207.68.60.67]) by vms044.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2 HotFix 0.04 (built Dec 24 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0INA009ZCBD3GAT0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:27:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:27:02 -0400 From: "RON CARNEGIE" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: US Reenacting (was: why renaissance and not 18th century?) To: "Historical Costume" Message-id: <018001c5c074$c6e36da0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> <8C78DD64050E45A-E20-2CD3@FWM-R27.sysops.aol.com> <004401c5bfe5$0565f0b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> <6.2.1.2.0.20050923021306.035e92e8@64.87.54.245> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I was speaking US wide, all of these things vary greatly from location to location, though you might be surprised how m,any reenactors there are in California. Some areas have nothing or very little at all. Out here in Virginia, 800-1000+ reenactors at a civil war reenactment is still on the small side. The big dog an pony shows as they are called get 13-17000. In fact did you know there were Bristish WWII and Colonial period reenactors there in central California. They are based out of Fresno. I used to work at the LHS faires. Those were some of the largest renn faires in the country. The parties I mentioned earlier were made up mostly of old Renn Faire people. Kevin Brown, David Springhorn, Bill Rockford, Tim Kinkas, etc.. Ron CArnegie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimiko Small" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 5:23 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: US Reenacting (was: why renaissance and not 18th century?) > At 07:18 PM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >>I suspect in fact (though maybe incorrectly) that there are more 18th >>century reenactors in America then there are Renn Faire participants. Not >>more than there are ren faire gusests or customers however. Not more than >>there are SCA members either. > > Well, in my neck of Central California, there are far more Ren-faire > re-enactors than any other time frame. I know of Civil War, Gold > Rush/Western/Cowboy, WWI and WWII, and a small smattering here and there > in time frames (again, mostly war settings). But when it comes to > Ren-faire actors, I would estimate 800-1000 +/- actors that have shown up > to local ren-faires and were checked in with arm-bands on any one weekend. > And that's at the smaller faires that only go on for the one weekend (I > used to help run Hanford Renaissance of Kings, one of the smallest, yet > rather popular small ren-faires.) > > I would love to be involved in other time frames for re-enactment and > costuming, but unless I want to drive 4+ hours to Sacramento, the Bay > Area, or Los Angeles, with small children in tow, there isn't much > available in my area. However, our small local costuming group is working > on doing other eras, and we are starting small... with a Victorian Tea up > in Oakhurst sometime this upcoming spring, and hopefully it will grow from > there. > > > Kimiko Small > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > "The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, safety > first instead of duty first, a love of soft living and the get-rich-quick > theory of life. This country will not be a permanently good place for any > of us to live unless it is a good place for all of us to live." ~ Teddy > Roosevelt. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 15:32:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NJWbCF011387 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:32:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NJWEVQ054346 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:32:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJWBMk022975; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:32:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f4.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.14]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJW7BD022844 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:32:02 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.203 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:32:01 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.203] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509231804.j8NI3VQ4060588@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:32:01 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Sep 2005 19:32:02.0006 (UTC) FILETIME=[78C8CF60:01C5C075] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Suzi Clarke > >> > winkle pickers. > >>??? > >A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. >And women's. They are currently to be seen in shoe shops in Europe as >a "new" fashion. I could be mistaken, what with it being a fashion thing, but I -believe- the original style was a man's shoe. The term has just carried over with the more recent conckroach stompers. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 15:43:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NJhesE011549 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:43:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NJhE1Y055956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:43:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJh7Rb030447; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:43:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJgsOk030238 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:43:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@vanburen.patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8NJgmF2027615 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:42:48 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.43 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <65465.12.34.14.43.1127504568.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> References: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:42:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Fran wrote: > I've never been quite sure who Olivia Newton John is, but I don't think > I really want to know. I think she has something to do with music? but > I don't listen to modern pop or rock or rap music, whatever the thing is > now. Certainly there is some confusion when it's not clear if the statements were regarding H-Costume members or the larger society in general. We are definitely a knowledgeable group, and many ignore the 20th/21stC fashions in favor of historic clothing! I don't associate track/warmup/sweatsuits with Olivia Newton John, I thougt she wore 80s spandex in the "Let's Get Physical" video, and a whole range of styles seeing as she starred in the movie "Grease" and was originally a country singer. But I do remember when a friend and I lamented people wearing sweatpants in public - mid 80s? The next thing you know it was fashion (early 90s?). It was more the over 50 crowd wearing them, sweatsuits with wide colored stripes on the chest and down the leg, older couples matching or coordinating. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 15:54:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NJsE2q011666 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:54:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NJrnQ0057291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:53:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJrc76037395; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:53:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJrUW7037236 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:53:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-178.sonic.net [209.148.114.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NJrMGZ004062 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:53:23 -0700 Message-ID: <43345D37.9010007@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:53:27 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences References: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >My opinion is that if you don't understand MTV, VHS, Hip-Hop and the whole >youth music culture your are probably incomplete in your assessment of what is >going on with "fashion" in our culture. > I've never been interested in modern pop or rock music, and that includes when I was a teenager. I was always a classical and folk music person. I did not grow up watching TV (my parents thought it was the intellectual equivalent of junk food). And I still don't watch it, because I largely agree with them. Any costume movies I want to see I can get on video. I don't need to subject myself to doing things I really dislike to feel hip. I've never been hip in my life, or wanted to be. My leisure time is limited, like everyone's. I'd rather spend mine reading books I really like than watching TV, and listening to music I like rather than music I don't. Aside from what I choose to wear every day, I'm not very interested in modern fashion. Or, in fact, in modern culture. It's just not what I like, or want to occupy my mind with. Sorry, but this is, after all, a group for people interested in historical subjects, not one for modern sociologists. However, considering that I'm always seeing people wearing modern fashion, seeing it sold in stores and on the net, seeing fashion columns in the newspapers, and reading fashion magazines, I think I have as good an idea as anyone of what people are wearing. I actually do a fair amount of fashion magazine reading and shopping to put together a modern wardrobe of things I really like that fit into, sort of, what is currently worn. Meaning I'm always looking for historic and vintage style revivals. > We no longer have one fashion which >everyone tries to copy within their economic class. We have a fascination >with youth sub-culture and you won't get that without music videos, etc. on >these channels. > I'm very well aware of style diversity--if it weren't for that I'd have nothing to wear without looking like I was going to a costume party every day. We've had a fascination with youth culture since the 1960s. I've read a ton of articles on the subject, seen the clothes, etc., without ever turning on a TV. > There is a world culture now, like never before. We are truly >becoming a world village with exchange of styles reinterpreted. Look at the >Tokyo street culture for a creative take on Western fashion. > No kidding. I'd never have known that from looking at all those "made in China" and "made in Thailand" labels on my clothes for years. Or--this summer alone--from all those Indian kurtas I've been seeing for sale--and bought. Or from those cashmere ponchos I ordered from Nepal, the alapaca ones I got from Peru via eBay, the skirts I've been buying from a Thai seller on eBay, the kebayas I bought from Malaysia via the net, the sarongs I got from Indonesia. Even the fancy designer "deconstructed" Japanese skirts I bought (discounted!). > The couture >houses no longer dictate fashion. It comes from everywhere. > This is exactly what I kept telling an (irritated) instructor back when I studied fashion design in college. Couture has not dictated fashion since the "youth rebellion" of the 1960s. Even before that, it was the province of the very rich. And it has never dicated fashion in the US the way it did, for a while, in Europe. However, MTV doesn't dictate all fashion either. >Fashion, however you define it, has always been a reflection of the cultural >and sub-cultural hegemony in Western Civilization. It's often referred to >as "Zeitgeist". Meaning it can only flower in the historic and >socio-political environment of its time. So if something is, indeed, revisited (and it's >never exactly the same), how is that reflected in what is going on in the >culture? > > Y'know, it's not like I've never read a "Fashion of Western Civilization" book, or any scholarly studies on clothing history. I mean, I do have a degree in history (and another in "publishing"). I have completed college programs in fashion design and textile arts as well. I've also studied ethnic clothing (at the time I was studying weaving and such) and I've collected antique and vintage clothing since I was 16. And I've gotten by very nicely all this time without having to subject myself to MTV. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 16:33:46 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NKXijq012695 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:33:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NKXAfJ063501 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:33:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKWvSm066345; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:32:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKWiWB066174 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:32:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.147] (pm5-147.eos.net [205.133.149.147]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8NKWcdo006928 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:32:38 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:22:55 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509231430.j8NEUAxZ013553@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 617 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kimiko wrote: > Read _The Cult of Elizabeth_ by Roy Strong (isbn 0-7126-6481-5) > That's exactly what Strong suggests was done, since the Catholic faith was > no longer the state faith. It's a lot more complicated it would seem than > that, but Elizabeth became an icon for her people. It just didn't happen > overnight, however. Well, it's good to know it had SOME context. But still, the way it was portrayed in the movie -- I just had to laugh! Not appreciated by the whole audience, I know, but I like to hope there was at least one person who was silently giggling. I've never read Roy Strong. Of course Elizabeth became an icon, but I don't think she just looked at a statue and decided to slop on some white makeup! And that's pretty much what the movie said. I remember, at the time the movie came out, someone on this list posted how silly it was that Elizabeth wouldn't have known that her lover was married. (I forget his name -- sudden blank mind.) And of course, it was ridiculous. The whole movie was ridiculous. Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 16:42:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NKg0ja013281 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:42:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NKfHrk064581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:41:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKf6nt071996; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:41:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKeuZq071878 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:41:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.147] (pm5-147.eos.net [205.133.149.147]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8NKerdo007535 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:40:54 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:31:11 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509231430.j8NEUAxZ013553@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 617 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny wrote: > We want everything fast and then throw it away in a short > amount of time. We are all guilty of throw it away instead of repairing > products. Mass production makes it so much cheaper to purchase a new > product instead of repairing. This is not true in Europe, or at least it wasn't 10 years ago when I wrote an article about Benneton for a retail magazine. The company had opened US stores, but they failed miserably. They were trying to redo the stores, and the person in charge told me that the company had misunderstood the American market. Benneton sweaters, she told me, were considered middle-priced clothing in Europe, while here they were considered expensive (they were about $80 on sale then). The company was not geared to a "wear it for a year or two and get rid of it" mentality. They expected people to keep their Benneton clothes for a long time. She also explained that Benneton did not have any ladies' dress jackets, and that this was a staple of American women's work wardrobes (dress blouse, dress skirts, and dress jackets, all of them mix and match). She said that in Europe, women wore a lot more dresses to work, and a lot more matching suits. Benneton was designed for people who have fewer, nicer clothes, and who keep them longer. It could not compete as it was with the American market for a LOT of less expensive clothes. I don't know what it's like now... Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 16:42:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NKgWjt013308 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:42:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NKg9ph064695 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:42:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKftau072505; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:42:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKfbKi072307 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:41:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EIuML-000Plp-6y for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:41:29 +0000 Message-ID: <2CLb2zFngGNDJwgR@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:40:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <008801c5bf7e$e3a98790$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> In-Reply-To: <00a601c5bf80$7cb54220$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U (<$$xN+RTX4zdlQF4tSRkTWmQg8b>) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Not exactly answering the question that was asked but... I find it interesting what people choose to portray in different countries. In the UK, most people do something linked with where they are, or where they grew up, or perhaps a more distant family link. But the Americans and Australians I have met are more prepared to portray history from somewhere else entirely, doing Byzantine and Bulgarian medieval and all sorts. It seems that, because they don't have the [European] history of that time in their own country, they feel more free to just pick something they fancy. Jean Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote >Sorry sorry folks, drinks on me! > >I ment why so much renaissance fairs and renaissance reenactors and not >so many 18th century? >----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" > >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:06 PM >Subject: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? > > -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 16:45:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NKj5Se013520 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NKiltK065038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:44:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKiHA4074086; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:44:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKhos9073829 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:44:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.147] (pm5-147.eos.net [205.133.149.147]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8NKhldo007735 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:43:48 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:34:05 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509231803.j8NI3VQ3060588@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: jeans X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Julie wrote: Remember bell bottoms? A co-worker of mine swears that they are back, but I can't find any. I was at the Chicago Gap store last week, and they certainly didn't have any there. Darn. I love bellbottoms! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 17:01:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NL1HWU014205 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:01:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NL0rMu067499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:00:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NL0eoq085906; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:00:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.4.201]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NL0Asx085561 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:00:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from monicaspence@optonline.net) Received: from your1a4d29f243 (ool-45722639.dyn.optonline.net [69.114.38.57]) by mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-2.06 (built May 11 2005)) with SMTP id <0INA00LRCFNFAG00@mta6.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:59:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:59:36 -0400 From: monica spence Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: jeans In-reply-to: To: Historical Costume Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Try some online stores. Most have "real" stores in most cities/malls. If you find something it will take less time if you go in armed with a style number or a photo. Dame Catriona MacDuff (Fashion instructor in a college where all the kids are rifgt on top of styles) -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gail & Scott Finke Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:34 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: jeans Julie wrote: Remember bell bottoms? A co-worker of mine swears that they are back, but I can't find any. I was at the Chicago Gap store last week, and they certainly didn't have any there. Darn. I love bellbottoms! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 17:14:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NLE1Q3015957 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:14:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NLDc2e069288 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:13:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NLDJaj094990; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:13:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NLCUQ3094468 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:13:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:12:22 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:11:23 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: THAT movie Elizabeth X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I remember, at the time the movie came out, someone on this list posted how >silly it was that Elizabeth wouldn't have known that her lover was married. >(I forget his name -- sudden blank mind.) And of course, it was ridiculous. >The whole movie was ridiculous. > >Gail Finke Ah, yes. Lord Robert Dudley (later created Earl of Leicester by Elizabeth), whose wedding to Amy Robsart Elizabeth attended. Of course she knew he was married. In a way, that was what made things better for Elizabeth; Robert could not marry her. Things changed after Amy died. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net ========================== But I think he did secretly marry Elizabeth's cousin, Lettice Knollys. It was his last (third?) marriage. Did not make her very popular with the Queen but it didn't stop one of Lettice's children by her first marriage, Robert, Earl of Essex, from becoming one of the Queen's favorites, and later being beheaded by Elizabeth. Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 17:30:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NLUhF8018899 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:30:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NLUOSi073242 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:30:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NLUF2Z007570; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:30:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp2.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8NLU7Yi007438 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:30:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 9099 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2005 14:29:59 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 9039, pid: 9055, t: 4.5015s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:33/d:1070 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp2 with SMTP; 23 Sep 2005 14:29:54 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050923142540.0258a2e0@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:29:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: THAT movie Elizabeth In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp2.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_20 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, he did later marry Lady Essex (Lettice was widowed) in 1578, I think. And it was a rather open secret (her father was present to make certain that Lord Leicester could not repudiate the marriage later). As long as the marriage was not "in her face", she could ignore it, and did. Once the French ambassador made a public statement about the marriage, she could no longer ignore it. Joan At 02:11 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: > >I remember, at the time the movie came out, someone on this list posted >how > >silly it was that Elizabeth wouldn't have known that her lover was >married. > >(I forget his name -- sudden blank mind.) And of course, it was >ridiculous. > >The whole movie was ridiculous. > > > >Gail Finke > >Ah, yes. Lord Robert Dudley (later created Earl of Leicester by >Elizabeth), whose wedding to Amy Robsart Elizabeth attended. Of >course she knew he was married. In a way, that was what made things >better for Elizabeth; Robert could not marry her. Things changed >after Amy died. > >Joan Jurancich >joanmj@surewest.net >========================== >But I think he did secretly marry Elizabeth's cousin, Lettice Knollys. >It was his last (third?) marriage. Did not make her very popular with >the Queen but it didn't stop one of Lettice's children by her first >marriage, Robert, Earl of Essex, from becoming one of the Queen's >favorites, and later being beheaded by Elizabeth. > >Catherine > > > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 17:45:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NLjIMB019276 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:45:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NLieTn078570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:44:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NLibfh018749; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:44:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.141]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8NLiXdX018590 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:44:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 88560 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2005 21:44:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 2005 21:44:27 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050923224013.01d36dc0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:44:33 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century In-Reply-To: References: <200509231804.j8NI3VQ4060588@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:32 23/09/2005, you wrote: >>From: Suzi Clarke >> >> > winkle pickers. >> >>??? >> >A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. >>And women's. They are currently to be seen in shoe shops in Europe as >>a "new" fashion. > >I could be mistaken, what with it being a fashion thing, but I >-believe- the original style was a man's shoe. The term has just >carried over with the more recent conckroach stompers. > >Marc Sorry Marc, they may have originally been a man's style, but I was wearing them in the '50's, and they were called winkle pickers then. I am old enough to have been wearing so called fashion in the 50's. I didn't wear them for long, or often, as they hurt my feet!! (Incidentally, at about that age, I was given a pair of my Grandma's shoes, possibly from the First World War, which had long points - and I couldn't wear them either. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 18:31:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NMVAL2020159 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:31:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NMUUH2085138 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:30:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NMUSn9048747; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.41]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NMUN6K048705 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:30:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EIw3i0Usp-000508; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:30:22 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c5c08e$68027e10$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jeans Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:30:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Gail, The bell bottoms were in fashion again a couple of years ago. I think last winter we saw the first season without them. But if you look at Vogue magazine for the past year a large majority of the fashions are the gypsy style from the 1970s. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 18:43:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NMhS6c020267 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:43:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NMgkiR086263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:42:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NMgaKP056233; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:42:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.154]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8NMgTat056066 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:42:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 21463 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Sep 2005 22:42:20 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=aeT+nLWmN4ePS9/zGe72D4jLoJxRcNNRsH/eVaED8CuCkL9xm1oOl3zsUz4wZN2fSLVzDgSOD6GeJPNqApVYK46IFrcQJsfs50pG9TIguRu2mdODlDwzReYU7lx6sdsC+qQxaWfhf5szWZRkG21iCtXvpgxJohnLPG3BXkdK2bg= ; Message-ID: <20050923224220.21461.qmail@web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.53.209] by web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:42:20 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:42:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509232047.j8NKl9eJ076077@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: 20th century.... X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I miss Bennetton! And still own a classic pair of Bennetton wool trousers I bought over 25 years ago. As for the "we" comments about today's fashion and culture - I think that they are simply gross generalizations about today's youth and should be viewed as such. From the little I have read from the folks here, I don't believe any of us would fit into the mould of today's pop culture. I know I don't. In truth, I don't think a vast majority of young people fit this mould either. Just to give one example, my niece buys all vintage 20th century fashion, mostly from the 40's and 50's. Annette M Message: 10 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:31:11 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke Penny wrote: > We want everything fast and then throw it away in a short > amount of time. We are all guilty of throw it away instead of repairing > products. Mass production makes it so much cheaper to purchase a new > product instead of repairing. This is not true in Europe, or at least it wasn't 10 years ago when I wrote an article about Benneton for a retail magazine. The company had opened US stores, but they failed miserably. They were trying to redo the stores, and the person in charge told me that the company had misunderstood the American market. Benneton sweaters, she told me, were considered middle-priced clothing in Europe, while here they were considered expensive (they were about $80 on sale then). The company was not geared to a "wear it for a year or two and get rid of it" mentality. They expected people to keep their Benneton clothes for a long time. She also explained that Benneton did not have any ladies' dress jackets, and that this was a staple of American women's work wardrobes (dress blouse, dress skirts, and dress jackets, all of them mix and match). She said that in Europe, women wore a lot more dresses to work, and a lot more matching suits. Benneton was designed for people who have fewer, nicer clothes, and who keep them longer. It could not compete as it was with the American market for a LOT of less expensive clothes. I don't know what it's like now... Gail Finke --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 18:49:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NMnNLx020326 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:49:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NMmmhK086945 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:48:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NMmlcK060364; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:48:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NMmf7N060257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:48:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O0HtDG018168 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:17:56 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 617 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:48:35 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509231848.35551.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Friday 23 September 2005 4:31 pm, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: [snip] > This is not true in Europe, or at least it wasn't 10 years ago when I wrote > an article about Benneton for a retail magazine. The company had opened US > stores, but they failed miserably. They were trying to redo the stores, and > the person in charge told me that the company had misunderstood the > American market. Benneton sweaters, she told me, were considered > middle-priced clothing in Europe, while here they were considered expensive > (they were about $80 on sale then). The company was not geared to a "wear > it for a year or two and get rid of it" mentality. They expected people to > keep their Benneton clothes for a long time. > > She also explained that Benneton did not have any ladies' dress jackets, > and that this was a staple of American women's work wardrobes (dress > blouse, dress skirts, and dress jackets, all of them mix and match). She > said that in Europe, women wore a lot more dresses to work, and a lot more > matching suits. Interesting. The Benetton store near my office in Philadelphia does have ladies' dress jackets, though that may simply be an accommodation to the American market. > > Benneton was designed for people who have fewer, nicer clothes, and who > keep them longer. It could not compete as it was with the American market > for a LOT of less expensive clothes. I don't know what it's like now... I have *not* been impressed with the quality of the merchandise I've seen in their Philadelphia store. Reasonably good construction, but most of the garments--even the sweaters--seem very thin. I bought several Benetton sweaters last winter on sale. Although they are attractive and comfortable, if I wore them as often as I wear some of my work sweaters, they'd barely last one season before wearing through at the elbows. -- Cathy Raymond "As a general rule, if end users want to smash something repeatedly with a sledgehammer, that's a sign of bad UI."--Bram Cohen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 19:44:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NNiTiX020824 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:44:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NNi0no092179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:44:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NNhxjM089063; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:43:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NNhsV0088985 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:43:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1d6.458a1732 (57317) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:43:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:43:38 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think the things the 20th century will be remembered for are : - the gradual liberalization of women's clothing (shorter skirts, less corsetry, trousers), which went hand in hand with the greater freedom of women - the liberalization of men's clothing (t-shirts aceptable for work wear as one example), - the increasing westernization of clothing worldwide (and backlashes against it) - street fashions (I'm thinking of teddy boys, mods and rockers, carnaby st, punk, new romantic, grunge, etc etc - things that start on the street and are copied by top end designers) - the reduction in home-made clothes, and the mass loss of the skills required (people like us lot are hugely outnumbered!!) Modern designs that don't have a basis in history - assorted non-western designers regularly come up with completely off the wall clothes that are more like art than clothes. Some western designers do too, (although more common among fashion students, before they graduate and get tied down to the commercialism involved in having to make a living. "I'm not very interested in modern fashion", "I actually do a fair amount of fashion magazine reading", "that fit into, sort of, what is currently worn". I actually think this is a really interesting contradiction (and I really don't mean that in a sarcy, or snide way). I mean that it's interesting that even though someone isn't interested in modern fashion, they still feel compelled to read the mags to know what's "in". Which another thing that the 20th century will probably be remembered for - as fashion becomes available and affordable to the masses, it spreads the pressure to fit in, and to be seen as part of the group by what you wear (even goths, etc, slot people into groups according to how they're dressed - "I'm a Goth, of the type called "Romantic.""). There's nothing wrong with that, and of course it's been like that for centuries, but it's been far more common for the last few decades, because of mass media, and mass fashion. . OK - that involves a certain amount of sociology, but clothing, and in particular fashion, is so tied up with culture and society, that you can't really entirely understand one without the other (for example, would the skimpiness (or nudity) of say ancient Egyptian culture be acceptable in the US, even in places with temperatures to make that practical? and would modern people be able to continue to live the way they do swathed in acres of fabric and boning (men as well as women)? ) Re. throw away - it's absolutely true of the part of Europe I'm in - jackets for 20 quid, t-shirts for 4 quid...(shops like new look and top shop) . personally I wear things till they fall apart (or just stop wearing them and let them accumulate!!). I also have some vintage stuff, and some charity shop stuff. Debs (sorry if a bit long and incoherent - quite late at night as writing!) PS Bell bottoms are definitely back over here - or at least on their way back. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 19:52:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8NNqL0q020888 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8NNpbHH092891 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:51:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NNpaBI092727; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:51:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m27.mx.aol.com (imo-m27.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.8]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NNpXE6092649 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:51:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1a8.3fac4846 (57317) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:51:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <1a8.3fac4846.3065eef8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:51:20 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 619 X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO PPS - I don't watch MTV either! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 20:43:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O0h2si021237 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:43:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O0gg1r097982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:42:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O0gTdd017863; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:42:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.76]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O0gGa8017590 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:42:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from stilskin@netspace.net.au) Received: from localhost (webmail1.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.190]) by mail.netspace.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE0812E335 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:42:13 +1000 (EST) Received: from 220-253-122-247.VIC.netspace.net.au (220-253-122-247.VIC.netspace.net.au [220.253.122.247]) by webmail.netspace.net.au (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:42:13 +1000 Message-ID: <1127522533.4334a0e5da654@webmail.netspace.net.au> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:42:13 +1000 From: stilskin@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] Re: jeans References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO No. Like, wow, no. In? No, like, y'know they are just so like last week, -C. > > Julie wrote: > Remember bell bottoms? > A co-worker of mine swears that they are back ------------------------------------------------------------ This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 21:28:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O1SH22021678 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:28:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O1Ri85002448 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:27:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O1RfXE038701; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:27:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (simmts6.bellnexxia.net [206.47.199.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O1RYpT038607 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:27:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from shaneandsheridan@sympatico.ca) Received: from sherry ([65.92.205.104]) by simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with SMTP id <20050924012727.JRJV29614.simmts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@sherry> for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:27:27 -0400 Message-ID: <005501c5c0a7$ca740640$0a02a8c0@nodomainset.bellcanada> From: "Shane & Sheridan" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jeans Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:32:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The ones I have are called 'flares'... Sheridan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail & Scott Finke" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:34 PM Subject: [h-cost] Re: jeans > Julie wrote: > > Remember bell bottoms? > > A co-worker of mine swears that they are back, but I can't find any. I was > at the Chicago Gap store last week, and they certainly didn't have any > there. Darn. I love bellbottoms! > > Gail Finke > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 22:06:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O26WMQ022032 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:06:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O269Ua005889 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:06:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O266hw054771; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:06:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O262Se054740 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:06:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-72.sonic.net [209.148.114.72]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O260aU006138 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:06:00 -0700 Message-ID: <4334B48D.4040002@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:06:05 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >"I'm not very interested in modern fashion", "I actually do a fair amount of >fashion magazine reading", "that fit into, sort of, what is currently worn". >I actually think this is a really interesting contradiction (and I really >don't mean that in a sarcy, or snide way). I mean that it's interesting that >even though someone isn't interested in modern fashion, they still feel compelled >to read the mags to know what's "in". > Hey, reading _Vogue_ only takes ten minutes. It's all pictures. Anyway, I buy mostly ready-to-wear--I don't find modern clothes interesting to construct these days. What is in fashion magazines indicates what will be available to me in the stores, and whether I should even bother going to them. If I find a trend I like, I wear it. If not, I don't. There was a period of five or six years when I simply did not buy clothes because almost everything seemed to be black, charcoal gray, or a blackish dark brown. I ignore most trends entirely, in terms of what I wear. But, I have to wear something. I have to see people on business, and so forth. Wearing entire historic period outfits all day every day, or anything really, really outre, is a luxury for those who don't have careers. Fashion is not _just_ about self-image and identity, or about belonging to cultural n-groups. > Which another thing that the 20th >century will probably be remembered for - as fashion becomes available and >affordable to the masses, it spreads the pressure to fit in, and to be seen as part >of the group by what you wear > I think the pressure to fit in socially has, thankfully, lessened a great deal. In an urban area, at least, people are not stuck with any one set of people. They can go find others who share their interests, they can find a new job, they can move, they can even shuck off annoying relatives to a great extent. They can change religions, careers, spouses, identities, very freely. >(even goths, etc, slot people into groups >according to how they're dressed - "I'm a Goth, of the type called "Romantic.""). > I was fairly amused to be classified as a Goth, by some Goths, since I've never thought of myself as one. And I don't now. Some very nice people assuring me that I was welcome in their e-group, does nothing to affect my personal identity, nor will it change my actions or clothing a jot. I'm hardly about to go hang out in a Goth club (though I might get some design tips over the net). >There's nothing wrong with that, and of course it's been like that for >centuries, but it's been far more common for the last few decades, because of mass >media, and mass fashion. > > See above--I think it's less common. One thing I dislike about the costuming community is: They always want to push arguments to extremes. Or push someone else's viewpoint to an extreme, and then argue against it. Apparently, in order to say that I'm not primarily into modern fashion, I have to also say that I never, ever read a fashion magazine, or shop in department stores, or wear modern clothes. And that to avoid being called a conformist, someone so pathetically eager to fit into any group that I cry with joy because I discover a Goth group likes a good many more of the same things that I do than I ever suspected, I have to--what? Never speak to anyone? Never get costuming tips from anyone? Never interact on an e-group? Say nasty things about the Goths I just met and assure everyone I'm telling them to buzz off? On the other hand, if I said, falsely, that I go around wearing full Victorian (or other historic) outfits 24/7, even to business meetings and the supermarket, then I'd be called pathetically out of touch with modern culture. Oh, and you don't have a clue what I actually do wear, do you? You've never seen me, or, I suspect, even a photo. So, if whatever I say is going to be a platform for an excuse to put me down, I'd say that you don't have much of a platform to stand on. I suggest you get back to discussing costume in a more general way. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 22:20:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O2KSd3022165 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:20:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O2HoNV006738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:17:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O2HmOA059459; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:17:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm15.prodigy.net (ylpvm15-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O2HgC1059423 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:17:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (pimout6-int.prodigy.net [207.115.4.22]) by ylpvm15.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8O2Hl8Q010209 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:17:47 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.47.110] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-47-110.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.47.110]) by pimout6-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O2HaDg192380 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:17:41 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:17:32 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century In-Reply-To: <4334B48D.4040002@lavoltapress.com> References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Apparently, in order to say that I'm not primarily into modern fashion, I >have to also say that I never, ever read a fashion magazine, or shop in >department stores, or wear modern clothes. Huh? Following fashion is often something people my daughter's age do. So I can only assume that you're older than 21... ;) I'm not primarily into modern fashion either, but I do believe in being dressed; and on some occasions even well dressed. Right now I'm wearing an old t-shirt and my everything-else-is-in-the-laundry jeans. When the laundry is done I'll put on a nicer t-shirt and some more presentable jeans. It's entirely coincidence that other people in the world will be wearing t-shirts and jeans today too. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 23 23:13:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O3D9Hk022716 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:13:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O3CaKP010619 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:12:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O3CZLO081265; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:12:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O3CVLJ081239 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-72.sonic.net [209.148.114.72]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O3CU9s016262 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:12:30 -0700 Message-ID: <4334C423.7000207@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:12:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The point of Deb's message seemed to be, "Oh, you're saying you're not a conformist, but see you are, because you read fashion magazines. And some people on a Goth group told you they like historic styles too, and they called you a 'Romantic Goth,' so you're a conformist to their standards. See, you're contradicting yourself." With all those quotes from my e-mails, and responses to them, that was not a general discussion of costuming trends. My point is: Everyone on this group is interested in historic costume. Many people in this group would like to wear it places other than special reenactment or costuming events. Many of them do, to a limited extent. But, to most, it's a limited extent. I'd call someone a "conformist," who conforms more than normal, to whom conformity is a goal; which for me it is not. But, many people have to hold down jobs in places where full historic costume is not accepted, or paint the garage, or whatever. I don't think it's "conformity," to carefully pick out things you like that will get you by in modern daily life, maybe raising a few eyebrows but not harming your career, or causing you physical discomfort, or doing other things that cause you problems. As I said, clothing is by no means entirely about self-expression. Since I don't like most modern styles (though this year is better than the last several, to my relief), and since, besides, I'm an unusual size (4'9" tall) for me this is a tricky process. It does require research into what is in fashion, careful thought about where I can get hold of the few things I like, where I can buy them in my size, and how I can combine them with each other and with vintage and antique clothes from my collection. I spent the past several years wearing combos of T-shirts and basic pants and jumpers and other simple styles (which sounds like what you're doing, Katya). I did it to avoid wearing all that black and all those miniskirts. But I got bored. I've been buying a lot of clothes recently in reaction. Yeah, I like to look well dressed too. I'd be curious to know how other people on the list are dealing with the issue of compromising; with wanting to look historic, but also wanting to look minimally acceptable and be reasonably practical in daily life. Not in the abstract, but on the level of what styles people are wearing, how they combine historic with modern, and so on. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > I'm not primarily into modern fashion either, but I do believe in > being dressed; and on some occasions even well dressed. Right now I'm > wearing an old t-shirt and my everything-else-is-in-the-laundry > jeans. When the laundry is done I'll put on a nicer t-shirt and some > more presentable jeans. It's entirely coincidence that other people > in the world will be wearing t-shirts and jeans today too. > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 01:36:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O5ae3G024018 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:36:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O5Zhw6022432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:35:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O5ZfbK036698; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:35:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52811.mail.yahoo.com (web52811.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.254]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8O5Zcfh036667 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:35:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 59752 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2005 05:35:33 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=2GtP+bgBDHphPRn5pbxbieGNfJ6f+s7EtdaPrrNXMV1U6J0RmRRKnwvKImiH5fZbiJLtddt/gcJzwHxiwpTzF8BflEbh01yioXtpo83hCOhxmufbIM1wPG3fk/1HNPY5r5PxqUf1aqO2eAlvA0EC1ZI0Ivks1G+Y9eBvTNZISws= ; Message-ID: <20050924053533.59750.qmail@web52811.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52811.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:35:33 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke To: h-costume@indra.com, TheCostumersManifesto@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] question for the list X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello, all -- It dawned on me that I really should ask the list if any of you happened to know my sister, April Parke, who was a professional costumer (I don‘t know why it didn‘t occur to me sooner). She got her degree at the NC School of the Arts (late 70s or early 80s, I think…), had a long association with both the Atlanta Ballet and the Alabama Shakespeare Festival, and, after a move to NY, worked with The Muppets on Ice and on Phantom of the Opera (she had other gigs, of course, but I those are the primary ones I know about). I realize it’s a long shot, but if any of you do happen to remember her, of course I’d love to hear from you. Pax -- KP --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 01:57:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O5vV4U024249 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O5v3fF023779 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O5v2V9044119; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:57:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail4.tpgi.com.au (mail4.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.61]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O5uu9r044089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:56:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-214-182-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.214.182]) by mail4.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8O5us0J027398 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:56:56 +1000 Message-ID: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:55:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi everyone, I've been looking at some cotton hoopskirts on ebay (http://stores.ebay.com/ANGELS-BRIDAL-SHOP_5-HOOP-6-HOOP-MEGA-FULL-SLIP_W0QQ ssPageNameZVIStoreHeaderLinksQQtZkm?) for much less than it would cost me to buy the boning. But they only have 6 hoops, whereas the Simplicity pattern for mid 19th century hoops (#7216 but it's been discontinued) has 13 hoops. My 16th century farthingale only has 5 hoops and I've had no problems with it but it's much narrower than a 19th century hoop. So in short has anybody had success in using a readymade hoop? If I bought a readymade hoop I would obviously reduce the size (as a 168" hem is far too large) and replace the drawstring with a real waistband. But I'm not sure if 6 hoops could cause problems with either the bones showing through the skirt (I'd hope to only need one or two petticoats between the hoop and the dress) or the bones collapsing? As a student I'm long on time and short on cash so making modifications is not something I'm concerned about, but buying something cheap that's going need replacing after five minutes is false economy. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 02:57:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O6vrUj030722 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:57:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O6vIXV028650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:57:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O6vGn1068005; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:57:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O6vAEg067967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:57:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-214-182-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.214.182]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8O6v7nH028163 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:57:09 +1000 Message-ID: <005601c5c0d5$0d940a60$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <19a.3cd49f6e.30647636@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:56:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > As far as making any of the periods...they all equal out. Different > difficulties in each, but just as many. well OK, maybe making them is equally difficult but there is a great deal of difference in _researching_ them. If I want to make an 1860s morning dress I have thousands of fashion plates, contemporary patterns and instructions, photos of real people in real clothes (not an artist's slightly idealised version of what a member of the aristocracy was wearing on a formal occasion) and a few hundred extant garments to copy (obviously a lot of those are in private collections and therefore inaccessible to most members of the general public but you get the point). If I wanted to do the same in the 1560s I've got one extant garment (well Eleanora di Toledo's outfit, which is technically two layers, and a couple of men's garments), a few dozen portraits of the aristocracy dressed to the nines and a few tailors books (which focus heavily on men and are essentially cutting layouts) from later in the century. If I wanted to go back another century to the 15th century we've got portraits (and far fewer of them) a couple of extant men's garments (the 'Mary of Hungary gown' is 14th century isn't it?) and a whole lot of educated guesswork or trial and error. So while the difficulty involved in actually physically constructing any particular garment may be the same, the steps involved before you start making something becomes more and more difficult the further you go back. Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 02:59:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O6xsZY031137 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:59:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O6xaqD028794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O6xZU0068717; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:59:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail5.tpgi.com.au (mail5.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.101]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O6xU0j068682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:59:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-214-182-act.tpgi.com.au [220.245.214.182]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8O6xSwT003201 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:59:29 +1000 Message-ID: <005d01c5c0d5$6138b300$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:58:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO But Rhonda has the same thing cheaper so why not support a fellow list member? :-) http://sapphireandsage.com/alacarte.html Elizabeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lauren Walker" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan > Search on "fan" -- they call their sticks "Fan staves". > > -- > Lauren M. Walker > lauren.walker@comcast.net > -- > "One does not need buildings, money, power, or status to practice the Art of > Peace. Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is the place to > train." -- Morihei Ueshiba > > > From: Joan Jurancich > > Reply-To: Historical Costume > > Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:15:08 -0700 > > To: Historical Costume > > Subject: Re: [h-cost] making a fan > > > > Did you get the maribou fan? That's the only folding fan I found on > > the web site. > > Joan > > > > At 02:14 PM 9/19/2005, you wrote: > >> I picked up the sticks for the fan I'm making at: > >> www.displaycostume.com > >> the company is here in Seattle but they do website orders and will ship. > >> Good Luck > >> Molly > >> -------------- Original message -------------- > >> > >>> I want to try making a fan (18th-19th century style as opposed to > >>> renaissance style) but I don't know where to get the base. I'm not even > >>> sure what to call it, but the individual "sticks" are called > >> ribs, I think. > >>> I tried googling "fan base" fan ribs" "fan set" and a couple of other > >>> combinations without any luck. > >>> > >>> Can anyone help me with what the proper term is for this item? And if > >>> anyone can point me towards websites that might carry this, I'd be very > >>> grateful. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Julie > >> _______________________________________________ > >> h-costume mailing list > >> h-costume@mail.indra.com > >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > _______________________________________________ > > h-costume mailing list > > h-costume@mail.indra.com > > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 03:47:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O7l84w006116 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 03:47:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O7kbTH032154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:46:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O7kZsQ085626; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:46:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O7kXRo085590 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:46:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from koid.gath@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m7so213572nzf for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:46:28 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:x-mailer:date:to:from:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=Y+Ibgau+zlkU72q6TLIVNLI9hvbZUH+53l6Yssydtz/KzzE2et2pv7Y/eWs7sPTDuV/R3e8w0PGIRFaS14gMLyEnZkmfiLmJIMlo94KouwcfwBxse7lO2G3D+sujqqVjrX3/nYMmLnd8Q6hZf3bjha3I1O/v/AU2GT5MfFwZ2c0= Received: by 10.36.100.10 with SMTP id x10mr886299nzb; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from koid-gath.gmail.com ( [203.49.217.213]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id r1sm1618283nzd.2005.09.24.00.46.25; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:46:06 +1000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: koid gath Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I thought people might be interested in the following links. Sotheby's is auctioning off property from the Royal House of Hanover, there's about 4,000 lots from the last 500 years plus a few medieval bits. There's a lot of portraiture, weapons, textiles, silverware. These are just a few I pulled out and thought to be of interest You do have to be registered to use the site, however that isn't hard and considering its the only chance you'll get to see some of these. If you click on the thumbnail it brings up another image and then click on view larger image to view it in its largest format. Portraits Portrait of a Noblewoman by a follower of Anthonis Mor https://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H3ZR A portrait of King Henry VIII by a follower of Holbein https://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H3ZS 4 Children circa 1590 by the Northern Italian School http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H4MK a lovely portrait, with a lovely dress. I would say regency except the attributed sitter predates that era. http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H5RT Clothing There is a very large amount of liveries listed including hunts and galas as well as uniforms (including the Hussars). Those lots are in the last quarter of the catalogue. These are just a very small selection that I thought might be of interest. Blue Moire Padded Boys Dress circa 1860 http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4HB68 An unusual Jacket of Hard tartan with matching velvet waistcoat circa 1800-1830 http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4HB6J A cloth of gold embroidered court gown circa 1812-1820 http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4HB6G A Gentleman's Paisley Weave Dressing Gown Woollen Dressing Gown circa 1840-1850 http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4HB6C A Russian Officer's Uniform of the 4th Luben Hussars 1838. http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H54V There are also baking moulds up for auction, which are of historically dressed figures as well. :) I've posted bits and pieces of this here and there so apologies if you seen any of this before Sharon _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 04:23:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8O8NhuX012954 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 04:23:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8O8N9Lp034543 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:23:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O8N7pb098283; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:23:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pelian.kabelfoon.nl (pelian.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.45.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O8N4xG098233 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:23:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from triade@kabelfoon.nl) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (kf-ijss-cb01-0422.dial.kabelfoon.nl [62.45.81.167]) by pelian.kabelfoon.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596533190BB for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:22:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <43331B89.6030200@kabelfoon.nl> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:00:57 +0200 From: Deredere Galbraith User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? References: <19a.3cd49f6e.30647636@aol.com> <005601c5c0d5$0d940a60$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <005601c5c0d5$0d940a60$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I totally agree. Since I am trieing to set up my own buisines in making fantasy and gothic clothing and weddingdresses I don't have time to do much research. And I quit the SCA and don't have reasons to wear my 16th century stuf aneymore I am now more in to 18th and 19th century clothing. It takes me the same amount of time in making them but less time in researching them. I have a huge library of pictures collekted. And I find more reasons to wear them. Once I wore my red 1860's dress to a X mas party and most people saw it as a very nice evening dress. Last year I wore a 18th century polonaise. And this year I hope to wear a black bustle gown like the red one in Moulin Rouge or in Van Helsing. But I would never wear my 16th century clothing to a modern party. It is also less frustrating. There is so much unknown about the cloting before the 18th century. And somehow I really don't like the 17th century. And the fabrics are cheaper. I can use cotton. I like linnen and silks more but can't afford the silks anymore since the Euro. In a lot of stores here where you can hire clothing and you ask for medieval you get 18th century. I like to make fantasy and gothic versions of 18th and 19th century clothing. And since there are more party's now where people can wear them I hope that they will buy them. Because I haven't seen anyone who makes historical based fantasy and gothic clothing here in the Netherlands. And if they do it is almost alway's Carnaval stuf. Very cheap and over the top. > >well OK, maybe making them is equally difficult but there is a great deal of >difference in _researching_ them. >If I want to make an 1860s morning dress I have thousands of fashion plates, >contemporary patterns and instructions, photos of real people in real >clothes (not an artist's slightly idealised version of what a member of the >aristocracy was wearing on a formal occasion) and a few hundred extant >garments to copy (obviously a lot of those are in private collections and >therefore inaccessible to most members of the general public but you get the >point). > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 06:32:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OAWSkn009723 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 06:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OAW0c7041984 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 04:32:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OAVusr045862; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 04:31:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz [210.86.15.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OAVpJg045811 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 04:31:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from thebruce@ihug.co.nz) Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.193]) by mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050924103146.LEHR28153.mta206-rme.xtra.co.nz@mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz> for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:31:46 +1200 Received: from michaela ([219.89.161.241]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with ESMTP id <20050924103145.BBCA5449.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@michaela> for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:31:45 +1200 Received: from 127.0.0.1 (AVG SMTP 7.0.344 [267.11.6]); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:31:53 +1200 Message-ID: <00a401c5c0f3$2e12d820$0401010a@michaela> From: "michaela" To: "Historical Costume" References: <19a.3cd49f6e.30647636@aol.com> <005601c5c0d5$0d940a60$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:31:52 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > 'Mary of Hungary gown' is 14th century isn't it?) and a whole lot of > educated guesswork or trial and error. 1520s. The thing is when you "know" so much about an era you then start getting pickier about other details, so it's not just a question of "oh there's more info so it's easier." In later periods you are also looking a larger population and indeed some rather more subtle differences in clothing by region, month of the year and indeed time of the day and occasion. Also age appropriate. It's still quite difficult for me to work out why a garment is considered more appropriate for an older woman than a younger. It's often not about colour, though darker and duller shades are often listed as more seemly, not is it always about ornamentation (sometimes plainer is too severe..) . On another discussion list (message board) someone queried the use of a bustle in 1880-81. The answer is not as simple as yes, wear a little one. The answer was not as simple at the time either. While there is more information, there are also more decisions to be made because the rate of fashion changes really do increase to the point you have seasonal fashions in the mid-late 19thC especially. Also while there is more opportunity to directly copy, there is ever so much more to research if you want to know why and how. One of my favourite eras covers the years from 1875-1885 and there certainly is a lot of photographic evidence, but a lot of of it is undated and it can be very tricky getting a good date because like now people cling on to older fashions and use local fashions that may not appear in the usual books. The usual rule to find the latest fashion and date from there doesn't always work either, because that can either be a completely random item that is ahead of its time or still be worn a few years before the image was taken. So more information doesn't always mean an easier task;) I recreate and create costume from many historical and media sources. The only easy way for any of them is to just start creating immediately without doing the reasearch, or at least saying "enough! my brain will explode if I take up any more information!";) There is always more to learn. I started going mad with my Valois because of the amount of information I could look at (weaving types, stitch types where the cloth was woven.....) michaela de bruce http://costumes.glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.6/111 - Release Date: 23/09/2005 _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 09:18:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ODI8O4003316 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ODHHZG068486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:17:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ODHDNw006220; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:17:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ODH91Z006154 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A1CE0294; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:17:02 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.157 ([209.131.80.157] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 24 Sep 05 13:16:55 -0000 Message-ID: <009901c5c10a$b747d8e0$9d5083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:20:19 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO About being "into modern fashion... Having reached the chronological age of 67 (!), I am more noticing of what women presumed to be in my age group are wearing, and am having a problem of how to present myself that goes against the grain of the "norm". I remember back when I first started my fashion up-keep via catalogues. Romans and Old Pueblo seemed very funny to me. "Who would make fashion choices from those sources!" The day I started to look at the catalogues and realize that my eye was pausing from time to time came as a revelation that somehow I had become to look more like the models. Not necessarily by size. "Ahah, I must be getting old." I have been in my"African Period" as one 'wag' from choir puts it for about 10 years. I love garments with an ethnic flare and especially those with original fabric design and handiwork. One style I have noticed on the street that I do not admire is all the stretch pants outfits and the oversized styles that seem to be the rage (for comfort?) in my age group. Presently, I am making real choices that avoid tee-shirts and overblouses that are left outside the skirt or pants. Somehow the casualness of style seems to have gone beyond the bounds of taste or fashion. Who was it, ( Bobbie Burns?) "If we could only see ourselves as others see us"... Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century > > >Apparently, in order to say that I'm not primarily into modern fashion, I > >have to also say that I never, ever read a fashion magazine, or shop in > >department stores, or wear modern clothes. > > Huh? Following fashion is often something people my daughter's age do. So > I can only assume that you're older than 21... ;) > > I'm not primarily into modern fashion either, but I do believe in being > dressed; and on some occasions even well dressed. Right now I'm wearing an > old t-shirt and my everything-else-is-in-the-laundry jeans. When the > laundry is done I'll put on a nicer t-shirt and some more presentable > jeans. It's entirely coincidence that other people in the world will be > wearing t-shirts and jeans today too. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:26:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OEQYPh004139 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:26:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OEQ2bW075327 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OEQ1JG034221; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKFiC7053949 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:15:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-178.sonic.net [209.148.114.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NKFge8011102 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:15:42 -0700 Message-ID: <43346273.9030308@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:15:47 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences References: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> <65465.12.34.14.43.1127504568.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <65465.12.34.14.43.1127504568.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > Certainly there is some confusion when it's not clear if the >statements were regarding H-Costume members or the larger society in >general. We are definitely a knowledgeable group, and many ignore >the 20th/21stC fashions in favor of historic clothing! > > Yes, h-costume is primarily a historically oriented group. What I see is: Modern ready-to-wear "dicates" what many people wear because it's what's available to them. However, there are significant groups of people who are tired of walking into stores and seeing only a small range of colors this season (most of which they don't like) styles that don't flatter their bodies, and "looks" that don't suit their personalities. So there are subgroups looking for styles to wear at least on special in-group occasions, and if possible every day, that suit their own needs rather than manufacturers'. Historic costumers are one such group. I'm not saying they have no real interest in clothing design or in history, because they do. However, many also have bodies and/or personalities that current styles just do not suit. Goths are another such group. I've been chatting a lot on one Goth sewing list and what I found out is: I'm a Goth, of the type called "Romantic." Oh, there were a couple people who felt my color sense was wrong for Goth--I look awful in black and "jewel" tones, and great in wholesome "autumn" colors. (Though some reminded me that autumn colors are, after all, pre-Raphaelite.) But in terms of styles, I fit right in. I'd say that the major difference between historic costumers and Romatic Goths is the Goths usually alter and mix the styles, and purist costumers are trying for historic accuracy. Then there are vintage clothing enthusiasts. And people who make "wearable art" clothes. And a lot of people who belong to one or more of these groups. > I don't associate track/warmup/sweatsuits with Olivia Newton John, > I associate sweatsuits with a recreational seniors group I see at the mall, who look like they all decided, "Heck with it, at our age let's go for comfort not beauty." If they're happy with it why not? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:26:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OEQi4p004149 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:26:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OEQQFX075406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OEQQm8034428; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NL40gn088353 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:04:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-197.sonic.net [209.148.114.197]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NL3tpI019100 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:03:58 -0700 Message-ID: <43346DBE.4080703@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:03:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jeans References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think I saw some belbottoms at www.revolvevlothing.com, as well as other 60s-inspired styles. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Gail & Scott Finke wrote: >Julie wrote: > >Remember bell bottoms? > >A co-worker of mine swears that they are back, but I can't find any. I was >at the Chicago Gap store last week, and they certainly didn't have any >there. Darn. I love bellbottoms! > >Gail Finke > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:26:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OEQeJE004145 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:26:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OEQMmS075382 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OEQMer034387; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8NKkxXo075967 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:47:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 9424 invoked from network); 23 Sep 2005 13:46:50 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 9405, pid: 9417, t: 1.5438s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:34/d:1097 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 23 Sep 2005 13:46:49 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050923134343.0259bbf0@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:46:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] THAT movie Elizabeth In-Reply-To: References: <200509231430.j8NEUAxZ013553@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.3 X-DCC-dmv.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1181; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=13% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:22 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: >[snip] > >I remember, at the time the movie came out, someone on this list posted how >silly it was that Elizabeth wouldn't have known that her lover was married. >(I forget his name -- sudden blank mind.) And of course, it was ridiculous. >The whole movie was ridiculous. > >Gail Finke Ah, yes. Lord Robert Dudley (later created Earl of Leicester by Elizabeth), whose wedding to Amy Robsart Elizabeth attended. Of course she knew he was married. In a way, that was what made things better for Elizabeth; Robert could not marry her. Things changed after Amy died. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:27:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OER67l004160 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:27:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OEQfun075478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OEQbW0034565; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:26:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m14.mx.aol.com (imo-m14.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8NNp6k2092451 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:51:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Debloughcostumes@aol.com) Received: from Debloughcostumes@aol.com by imo-m14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1a5.3f423cbb (57317) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:50:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Debloughcostumes@aol.com Message-ID: <1a5.3f423cbb.3065eedf@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:50:55 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 670 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Following on from what Jean said, what I find interesting is this. (Background for anybody who doesn't re-enact in the UK...) There are several American Civil War groups here, varying in size. There is also a group portraying the Spanish Civil War. Lots of British men fought in both of these wars. Anyway, the thing I find interesting is that everybody understands why Bitish people want to remember the Spanish CW, but very few get why the ACW. To get more back to the original question (ish) - I'm not sure of the where's and why's, but there aren't very many 18th century re-enactors in the UK either. Medieval is by far the largest period re-enacted here at the moment (although it's taken over from the English Civil Wars). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:28:11 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OESAE8004178 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:28:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OERUsd075597 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:27:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OERTcA034960; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:27:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O22j8d053328 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:02:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKp2t-1EIzND3rkO-0003WH; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:02:43 -0400 Message-ID: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:02:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-DCC-servers-Metrics: net.indra.com 1049; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=26% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8OESAE8004178 Status: RO What current day fashion magazines do you all read? Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:29:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OET0Y9004195 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:29:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OEShQc075692 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:28:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OEShMU035498; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:28:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O2Vuf4064890 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:31:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-72.sonic.net [209.148.114.72]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O2VoEF007298; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:31:51 -0700 Message-ID: <4334BA9C.9030406@lavoltapress.com> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:31:56 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kitty Felton , h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences References: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> <43345D37.9010007@lavoltapress.com> <4334A2D5.10707@floodcity.net> In-Reply-To: <4334A2D5.10707@floodcity.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't know what you think is interesting . . . A couple good eBay sellers of "gypsy" skirts are aonneo (the Thai seller; very cheap and great service) and funtique-23 (in California). Tons of other people sell them there though. China-usa (actually also in California) sells lovely Victorianish hand-crocheted things, very high quality, at good prices. Don't overbid, they are a manufacturer and have more of almost everything in stock. For embroidered kebayas, you can search "kebaya" on eBay and sometimes find a couple, but I got mine from www.kebayas.com, who is not on ebay and says she has no plans to sell there. She will custom size her ready-to-wear to some extent (they're not quite RTW, I think she may pre-embroider them but she sews them after you order), and she will send fabric swatches. Which you will need because her web pictures have little to do with her fabric colors. http://www.charitysalesonline.org is a company in Nepal that sells hand-loomed (knitting machine, I think) cashmere ponchos. They knit them in white and will dye them any color you want. You can get several at a lower price and get one color of each. Meaning you can go in with some friends, or have a bunch of ponchos if you want. They will send you color swatches too, but they charge for them. Peruvian alpaca ones are cheaper and there are lots on eBay, you can just do a search. You can buy embroidered Indian kurtas and other Indian clothes all over the place, including lots on eBay, but the quality varies from great to awful. http://www.shalincraft.com, who sells on Amazon apparel but not eBay as far as I know, has good quality in my experience. A good online seller of "wearable art" is www.artfulwears.com. Some of their stuff is RTW but a lot of it appears to be handmade, limited-edition items. For vintage and antique clothes on eBay, your best bet is to get into (for example) clothing/vintage/women/1920s, or whatever subcategory interests you, and browse. Unless you're looking for something really specific. Then you can get into the category and search on (for example) "black velvet jacket." Hope this helps. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > Hi fran, could you tell me what you search for on ebay to find > interesting stuff? thanks, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:29:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OET9Ls004200 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:29:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OESs34075746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OESsvw035649; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:28:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O3ca7F091038 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:38:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:38:31 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 03:38:30 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1c9.319565ed.30647722@aol.com> <20050922172651.jvvl0mmyjxc84gks@webmail.uvm.edu> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:38:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2005 03:38:31.0173 (UTC) FILETIME=[6EE23B50:01C5C0B9] X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> Now that the 20th century is over, what do you think the big clothing >> "thing" will be that defines it? Y'know....what quality will it be known >> for, you >> think? What garment? > Pants for women. I think this is the one major change. In every other period, men wear pants and women skirts. Of course, that really happened in the second part of the century... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:29:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OETGK7004206 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:29:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OESxNV075766 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:28:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OESwSh035699; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:28:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav2.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.74]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O3w4B4098707 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:58:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:57:59 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV2.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 03:57:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509231430.j8NEUAxa013553@net.indra.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050923160427.01d308a0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:58:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2005 03:57:59.0348 (UTC) FILETIME=[272B9740:01C5C0BC] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century > At 15:40 23/09/2005, you wrote: >>>From: Cynthia J Ley >>> > winkle pickers. >>>??? >> >>A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. >> >>Marc > > > And women's. They are currently to be seen in shoe shops in Europe as a > "new" fashion. > > Suzi > They've been there for a while. Actually, I started seeing them about 3 years ago here in Montreal. Always thought they looked ugly - make the feet look so weird, and the poor girl always looks like she's going to trip on the tips and fall flat on her face. There seems to be a little less of them around this season (thank God!). _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:29:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OETLOl004210 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:29:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OET4rN075789 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:29:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OET3Ro035749; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:29:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vhost1.itasca.net (IDENT:7PvCGhMvP8YJlVkq8uJBzjJ324rrXm9I@vhost1.itasca.net [12.157.198.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O4OJYP008428 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:24:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ynes@sskip.net) Received: from 208-59-116-5.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com ([208.59.116.5]:29355 helo=[10.0.1.190]) by vhost1.itasca.net with esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.42 and XAMS 0.0.13) id 1EJ1aE-00054B-CR for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:24:19 -0500 Message-ID: <4334D4F5.7050703@sskip.net> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:24:21 -0400 From: Ynes Garcia User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> <4334C423.7000207@lavoltapress.com> In-Reply-To: <4334C423.7000207@lavoltapress.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scan-Signature: c0c37ee205172708b85410eff2de5713 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > I'd be curious to know how other people on the list are dealing with > the issue of compromising; with wanting to look historic, but also > wanting to look minimally acceptable and be reasonably practical in > daily life. When I'm at an SCA event, Rennfaire, or historic-themed costume party, I want clothes that are historic. When I'm at work or church, I want clothes that are conservative, comfortable, and flattering. When I'm out on the town, I want clothes that are eye-catching or elegant, depending on the venue. When I'm at home, I want clothes that are comfortable. When I wear historic pieces outside historic costume contexts, they make a definite statement (E of Toledo pair of bodies with a 1950's crinoline and 1990's knee-high combat boots at the goth club), are vintage pieces in classic lines that coordinate with moder pieces (mid-20th century sheath dress and a recent jacket), or are comfortable enough to fall asleep in (linen t-tunic or chemise). This isn't a compromise to fit historic costume pieces into my modern wardrobe, rather it is use of historic costume pieces because they meet the requirements I place on my modern wardrobe. - Ynes _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:29:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OETPjj004216 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:29:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OET7Ps075804 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OET7IJ035779; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:29:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8O5Lpej031531 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:21:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1c4.316dd16c (16035) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-R20 (fwm-r20.webmail.aol.com [152.163.211.148]) by air-id10.mx.aol.com (v107.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID102-3ea34334e26527a; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:21:42 -0400 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:21:41 -0400 Message-Id: <8C78EDEFB4539CC-A48-6A15@FWM-R20.sysops.aol.com> From: albertcat@aol.com References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> Received: from 24.136.228.102 by FWM-R20.sysops.aol.com (152.163.211.148) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:21:41 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.14204 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 152.163.211.148 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=1% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Huh? Following fashion is often something people my daughter's age do. So I can only assume that you're older than 21... ;) I'm not primarily into modern fashion either, but I do believe in being dressed; True....but society....like high society, still cares what you wear sometimes far more than young people. It's like what the fashion report from the red carpet is all about. But also what you wear at the White House or the board room. Me? I live in perpetual casual world. But my aunt is head of the American Red Cross and sees Bush and others high up and gives and attends big whoop-de-dos and so on and so forth.....and one must wear the right kind of thing at the right time...and it's serious....Jezebell serious. I don't mean to state the obvious, but in my world, I sometimes forget the rigors of society. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 10:41:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OEfP6E004393 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:41:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OEf70L076806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:41:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OEf6fY040821; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:41:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8OEf2v4040770 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:41:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 81603 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2005 14:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2005 14:40:55 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050924153830.01d3c648@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:41:03 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines In-Reply-To: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> References: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 03:02 24/09/2005, you wrote: >What current day fashion magazines do you all read? None! But then I am short, fat and over 60!! I do read "ordinary" women's magazines which have fashion in, but really, not suitable for me. However, I welcome the return of longer skirts to fashion (I'm still wearing my old ones from the last time.) And I have finally found boots to fit my really fat calves - yay! Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 11:22:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OFMWOX005014 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:22:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OFLxPs081672 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:21:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFLwLg058436; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:21:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFLthZ058389 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:21:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:21:50 -0700 Message-ID: <43356F1A.5070201@msn.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:22:02 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? References: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2005 15:21:50.0269 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF8146D0:01C5C11B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Elizabeth. What kind of shape are you trying to achieve? What period? Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 11:24:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OFOZsd005056 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OFNiqM081887 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:23:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFNi4J059242; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:23:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFNfMo059190 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:23:36 -0700 Message-ID: <43356F84.5070508@msn.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:23:48 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] link: searchable catalogue-TextileMuse References: <6.0.1.1.0.20050923074536.01ca7038@public.carnet.hr> In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20050923074536.01ca7038@public.carnet.hr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Sep 2005 15:23:36.0315 (UTC) FILETIME=[EEB69CB0:01C5C11B] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Kool! Thanks! J. Kale wrote: > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 11:30:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OFU967005117 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:30:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OFTPvN082266 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:29:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFTOtH061711; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m17.mx.aol.com (imo-m17.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFTL82061659 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:29:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.92.2fefb8d8 (3940) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:29:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:29:04 EDT Subject: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2005 8:27:46 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, penny@costumegallery.com writes: What current day fashion magazines do you all read? A trip to Border's is really educational. Because of the class I am teaching, I am interested in what appeals, what is being worn by various groups. Consider that the music magazines serve as fashion magazines, as well. There are magazines for Goths, Latinos (various subcultures), Blacks (various age groups and subcultures), Teens, Wealthy Mainstream, Artsy Cutting Edge. Of course, there is crossover between these groups. It's interesting to see how different the looks are depending on the group one wishes to identify with...and how one season something might appear only in the Goth magazines and the next it resurfaces, remade in Vogue. Re-enactors must be rejoicing right now, as there is a mainstream interest in tapestry, velvet, lace, corsets, (which have been appearing for three years or so). Maybe you can't wear the whole thing, but you can certainly get away with the laced bodices, jackets, ren shirts, etc...and look very stylish. It recalls the Edwardian styles of the late '60's and early '70's, but more eclectic. And I, too love the new mainstream look. The little tummy-bearing tight clothes of the past several years would have looked hideous on moi, 55 years old who lost her waistline years ago and who loved the late 80's and early 90's because I could cover it up and still look fashionable. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 11:34:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OFYaFO005184 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:34:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OFYFtH082590 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:34:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFYEjC063710; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:34:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OFYB6L063652 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:34:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.6b.4e25ffa5 (3940) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <6b.4e25ffa5.3066cbeb@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:34:03 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2005 8:29:14 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: Pants for women. I think this is the one major change. In every other period, men wear pants and women skirts. Of course, that really happened in the second part of the century... Actually men didn't wear "pants" until their skirts got so short they needed to connect their hose to avoid a public display. At least that is my understanding. Cheryl Odom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 12:09:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OG9du9005727 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:09:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OG9ANM085054 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:09:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OG99QW078925; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:09:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OG95cp078902 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:09:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.151] (pm5-151.eos.net [205.133.149.151]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8OG95do029551 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:09:06 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:59:21 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509241427.j8OERa4Y035047@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: benetton X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Cathy Raymond wrote: > Interesting. The Benetton store near my office in Philadelphia does have > ladies' dress jackets, though that may simply be an accommodation to the > American market. > I was talking about their first attempt at American stores. I don't know what they have now. > > I have *not* been impressed with the quality of the merchandise I've seen in > their Philadelphia store. Reasonably good construction, but most of the > garments--even the sweaters--seem very thin. I bought several Benetton > sweaters last winter on sale. Although they are attractive and comfortable, > if I wore them as often as I wear some of my work sweaters, they'd barely > last one season before wearing through at the elbows. Well then, I guess they adapted to the American market! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 12:24:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OGO6PQ005943 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:24:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OGNjIT086101 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:23:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGNhnB085352; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGNcXs085297 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:23:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-30.sonic.net [209.148.113.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGNa1x002772 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:23:37 -0700 Message-ID: <43357D8E.1040706@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:23:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> <4334C423.7000207@lavoltapress.com> <4334D4F5.7050703@sskip.net> In-Reply-To: <4334D4F5.7050703@sskip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A better way to describe it than "compromise." Thanks for the terminology. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > This isn't a compromise to fit historic costume pieces into my modern > wardrobe, rather it is use of historic costume pieces because they > meet the requirements I place on my modern wardrobe. > > - Ynes > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 12:28:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OGSSag006019 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:28:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OGS9IY086413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:28:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGS8WQ087266; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:28:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGS4AU087237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:28:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-30.sonic.net [209.148.113.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGS0qI007819 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:28:04 -0700 Message-ID: <43357E96.1090306@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:28:06 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> <8C78EDEFB4539CC-A48-6A15@FWM-R20.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C78EDEFB4539CC-A48-6A15@FWM-R20.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I wouldn't know, never having met anyone in "high societ," or the American upper class. And I'm probably unlikely to. And I'm in the intellectual/professional/academic strata of the middle class by birth, marriage, and career; meaning not at the very bottom of it. I wouldn't say all middle-class dress is "casual," by any means. There are plenty of jobs where people must wear conservative clothing to succeed, and so forth. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com > > True....but society....like high society, still cares what you wear > sometimes far more than young people. It's like what the fashion > report from the red carpet is all about. But also what you wear at the > White House or the board room. Me? I live in perpetual casual world. > But my aunt is head of the American Red Cross and sees Bush and others > high up and gives and attends big whoop-de-dos and so on and so > forth.....and one must wear the right kind of thing at the right > time...and it's serious....Jezebell serious. I don't mean to state the > obvious, but in my world, I sometimes forget the rigors of society. > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 12:34:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OGY6Wn006124 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:34:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OGXVeC086851 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:33:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGXP0e089554; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:33:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGXMCZ089529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:33:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-30.sonic.net [209.148.113.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGXLxG004600 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:33:21 -0700 Message-ID: <43357FD7.5080309@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:33:27 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> <6.2.3.4.0.20050924153830.01d3c648@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050924153830.01d3c648@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO That's at least partly being short--your calves are not where the boots manufacturer thinks they should be, height-wise. I have the same problem with long boots. I also welcome the return of long skirts. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Suzi Clarke wrote: > At 03:02 24/09/2005, you wrote: > >> What current day fashion magazines do you all read? > > > None! But then I am short, fat and over 60!! I do read "ordinary" > women's magazines which have fashion in, but really, not suitable for > me. However, I welcome the return of longer skirts to fashion (I'm > still wearing my old ones from the last time.) And I have finally > found boots to fit my really fat calves - yay! > > Suzi > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 12:36:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OGaN0Q006160 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:36:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OGZrQH087044 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:35:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGZqoF090545; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:35:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGZn6o090509 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:35:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-30.sonic.net [209.148.113.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGZlrp004978 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:35:47 -0700 Message-ID: <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:35:53 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I am rejoicing. I'm buying clothes like I haven't been for years. Stuff from the 1960s through the 1980s is getting mixed together and marketed as "boho"--which is great with me. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >Re-enactors must be rejoicing right now, >as there is a mainstream interest in tapestry, velvet, lace, corsets, (which >have been appearing for three years or so). Maybe you can't wear the whole >thing, but you can certainly get away with the laced bodices, jackets, ren >shirts, etc...and look very stylish. It recalls the Edwardian styles of the late >'60's and early '70's, but more eclectic. > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 12:57:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OGvU7X006437 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:57:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OGuskP088679 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGurKu003253; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:56:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGunhU003227 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:56:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-30.sonic.net [209.148.113.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OGulOH009165 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:56:48 -0700 Message-ID: <43358555.4080709@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:56:53 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> <009901c5c10a$b747d8e0$9d5083d1@rmitchellras> In-Reply-To: <009901c5c10a$b747d8e0$9d5083d1@rmitchellras> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I bought a very nice pair of bone-colored "granny boots" from Old Pueblo a few months ago. OK, they have a zipper on the side (in addition to front lacing), but the price was better than a "repro" and the shoes are more durable than my antique ones. I had them dyed black over the toes and heels, like an antique pair I have. One thing I've learned as a petite, is to get _every_ catalog I hear about that has petite-sized clothing in it, whether it's for misses, juniors, old ladies, wearable art/alternative, or whatever. I look at the lines of the clothes and pay no attention to the appearance of the models, or their age. I also shop at every store that has a petite section, and I look for sources of ethnic clothing that hasn't been resized for Americans. I look for vintage sweaters that have shrunk (great for getting sleeves that don't need turning up!), and of course, vintage clothes that were made small to begin with. And I look for styles where petite sizing is not necessary. For example, a T-shirt or sweater with short sleeves and a crew neck doesn't have to be petite sized; one with a lowish scoop neck and/or long sleeves usually does. But a T-shirt is a T-shirt is a T-shirt, whether it comes out of a catalog for old ladies or one for juniors. Though actually, for T-shirts I've been getting "blanks" en masse from Dharma Trading and dyeing a different batch every weekend for the past several months. A lot of the image stuff is just marketing, pure and simple. The RTW industry comes up with lines and they have to attach labels to them, "boho" or whatever. The stores and fashion magazines also use the labels. Even the Goths use marketing labels for their RTW. Clothing sellers see advantages in trying to get people to assume personal identities to match their labels, as in "I'm boho, that's boho, so I'll buy it." But individuals are, IMO, much better off looking at lines and construction and colors and what is convenient for them, and picking it out regardless of labels, and regardless of where it is sold. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com >Romans and Old >Pueblo seemed very funny to me. "Who would make fashion choices from those >sources!" The day I started to look at the catalogues and realize that my >eye was pausing from time to time came as a revelation that somehow I had >become to look more like the models. Not necessarily by size. "Ahah, I must >be getting old." > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 15:34:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OJY0DD008493 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:34:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OJVn0v001904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OJVkwr069570; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:31:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OJVeqU069510 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:31:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1f2.12ccca5b (25305) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:31:28 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings~ I am looking to make my daughter a coif embroidered like ones worn in the 15th and 16th century in England. I am planning to incorporate blackwork surface embroidery as well as gold embellishment. I have run across a particular embroidery stitch repeatedly, and cannot figure out exactly which stitch it is. I have seen it in many period pieces, and would like to use it in her coif. You can see it in this close-up at _http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ (http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) I am specifically referring to the gold embroidery. It looks like it could be a braided chain stitch or the double back stitch, or something....but I would like to try to find out from someone who has more knowledge about embroidery from that period exactly what it is. I tried, once, doing a heavy chain stitch with metallic thread on satin, and it was abysmal failure. The metallic thread just kept making a mess. It could be that it was the satin, and that I needed a looser weave of fabric, such as the linen I will be using, but I would also like recommendations for the best metallic thread to use to get a look as close to accurate as possible. I also understand that there is a particular silk thread to use for blackwork that gives a very nice, clean finish. I am very limited locally, and will have to do mail order for all of my supplies for this project. Any suggestions for sources would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Kimberley _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 15:58:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OJwmsT008797 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:58:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OJv4Xi003990 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:57:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OJv3tI080097; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8OJuuG9080025 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:57:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 40045 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2005 19:56:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp807.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2005 19:56:50 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050924205349.01d354d8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:56:59 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question In-Reply-To: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> References: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 20:31 24/09/2005, you wrote: >Greetings~ > >I am looking to make my daughter a coif embroidered like ones worn in the >15th and 16th century in England. I am planning to incorporate blackwork >surface embroidery as well as gold embellishment. I have run >across a particular >embroidery stitch repeatedly, and cannot figure out exactly which stitch it >is. I have seen it in many period pieces, and would like to use it in her >coif. You can see it in this close-up at > >_http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ Just for fun - I am getting an error message on this one. "These Weapons of Mass Destruction Cannot Be Displayed at this Time"!!! >(http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) > >I am specifically referring to the gold embroidery. It looks like it could >be a braided chain stitch or the double back stitch, or something....but I >would like to try to find out from someone who has more knowledge about >embroidery from that period exactly what it is. I tried, once, >doing a heavy chain >stitch with metallic thread on satin, and it was abysmal failure. The >metallic thread just kept making a mess. It could be that it was >the satin, and >that I needed a looser weave of fabric, such as the linen I will be >using, but >I would also like recommendations for the best metallic thread to use to get >a look as close to accurate as possible. I am going to a series of lectures on gold and silver thread and metallic embroidery but not for a month. Do you want copies of any notes that I think are relevant? > >I also understand that there is a particular silk thread to use for >blackwork that gives a very nice, clean finish. I am very limited >locally, and will >have to do mail order for all of my supplies for this project. Any >suggestions for sources would be greatly appreciated. Can't help with this I'm afraid. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 16:06:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OK6KK8008933 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:06:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OK4klT004759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:04:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OK4jKU083416; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:04:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m21.mx.aol.com (imo-m21.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.2]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OK4ewx083350 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:04:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.db.2e8bf9a4 (25305) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:04:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Chindora@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:04:29 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5009 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/24/2005 12:58:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, suzi@suziclarke.co.uk writes: Just for fun - I am getting an error message on this one. "These Weapons of Mass Destruction Cannot Be Displayed at this Time"!!! Actually, for whatever reason the links don't work when I send them from AOL to the list. I have had this problem before and do not know how to get around it. You have to copy and paste the actual link, without any of the extraneous characters before or after. The correct url for the close up is: _http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ (http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) And yes, I would love copies of any sort that you get from your lectures. I am always looking to increase my personal knowledge of techniques, even if I am not able to use them all in my lifetime! :) ~Kimberley btw, the aforementioned five year old daughter saw me looking at the embroidered insects in the QEWU, and she has insisted on having dragonflies, butterflies and ladybugs on her coif. Oh, and if I can squeeze in a cricket or two that would be spif too. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 16:09:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OK9Qo7008971 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OK7nkO005002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:07:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OK7mXC084750; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:07:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81405.mail.yahoo.com (web81405.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.94]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8OK7jNn084673 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:07:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 93503 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2005 20:07:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:X-RocketYMMF:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Leb3fseHBx09guCSPZxGHY95sCc3tAQ1D3JACs3CvVaWdikvPuWJQh37AhVIa8y5cwjX4Qq2fH6Hd2pSvitTLMq93w4PhSOEc+NAEJlZP5rqsQdRCMjAx+UhMPE35guM3GEVBjeZu8d+uLQpvUp9/27BTo4GvjRA1wgVCm1q2NE= ; Message-ID: <20050924200738.93499.qmail@web81405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.152.238.103] by web81405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:07:37 PDT X-RocketYMMF: cybalshouse Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:07:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Doyle Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The stitch is plaited braid stitch. It takes a bit to learn but looks really great one you get the hang of it. One of the things that you need to remember with gold cording/thread is to use short lengths. It really is a pain as it twists and such while working with it and short lengths minimizes the twisting on any one section so it is less of a problem. alex --- Chindora@aol.com wrote: > Greetings~ > > I am looking to make my daughter a coif embroidered like ones worn in > the > 15th and 16th century in England. I am planning to incorporate > blackwork > surface embroidery as well as gold embellishment. I have run across > a particular > embroidery stitch repeatedly, and cannot figure out exactly which > stitch it > is. I have seen it in many period pieces, and would like to use it > in her > coif. You can see it in this close-up at > > _http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ > (http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) > > I am specifically referring to the gold embroidery. It looks like it > could > be a braided chain stitch or the double back stitch, or > something....but I > would like to try to find out from someone who has more knowledge > about > embroidery from that period exactly what it is. I tried, once, doing > a heavy chain > stitch with metallic thread on satin, and it was abysmal failure. > The > metallic thread just kept making a mess. It could be that it was > the satin, and > that I needed a looser weave of fabric, such as the linen I will be > using, but > I would also like recommendations for the best metallic thread to > use to get > a look as close to accurate as possible. > > I also understand that there is a particular silk thread to use for > blackwork that gives a very nice, clean finish. I am very limited > locally, and will > have to do mail order for all of my supplies for this project. Any > suggestions for sources would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks! > > Kimberley > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 16:18:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OKIB0x009119 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:18:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OKGSUP005821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:16:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKGRKH088655; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:16:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKGNOo088601 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:16:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OLjfOd004461 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:45:42 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: benetton Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:16:16 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509241616.17001.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 24 September 2005 11:59 am, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: > Cathy Raymond wrote: [snip] > > I have *not* been impressed with the quality of the merchandise I've seen > > in their Philadelphia store. Reasonably good construction, but most of > > the garments--even the sweaters--seem very thin. I bought several > > Benetton sweaters last winter on sale. Although they are attractive and > > comfortable, if I wore them as often as I wear some of my work sweaters, > > they'd barely last one season before wearing through at the elbows. > > Well then, I guess they adapted to the American market! Apparently. Though I personally prefer to buy quality clothing and keep it for longer as you say is common in Europe. Sigh. -- Cathy Raymond "As a general rule, if end users want to smash something repeatedly with a sledgehammer, that's a sign of bad UI."--Bram Cohen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 16:26:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OKQUNh009224 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:26:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OKOw3b006605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:24:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKOvrX092092; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:24:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKOq2Z092014 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:24:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 388393C84C for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:24:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4335B62F.7040408@reddawn.net> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:25:19 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] anyone in Maryland? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Any Maryland area folks feel like taking on a wedding party of 16 with a medieval/ renaissance theme? The date is next May and the bride has a budget of ~$125 per outfit. Please email me and I will pass on your contact info. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 16:27:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OKRGvc009228 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:27:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OKPlo2006664 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:25:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKPlAc092499; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:25:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from grelber.thyrsus.com (dsl092-053-140.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.92.53.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKPh2c092400 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:25:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cathy@thyrsus.com) Received: from minx.thyrsus.com (minx.thyrsus.com [192.168.1.21]) by grelber.thyrsus.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OLt18Z004657 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:55:01 -0400 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Re: the 20th century Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:25:35 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.7 References: <1d6.458a1732.3065ed2a@aol.com> <4.3.1.2.20050923190944.039c1920@mail.frys.com> <8C78EDEFB4539CC-A48-6A15@FWM-R20.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C78EDEFB4539CC-A48-6A15@FWM-R20.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200509241625.36322.cathy@thyrsus.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Saturday 24 September 2005 1:21 am, albertcat@aol.com wrote: > Huh? Following fashion is often something people my daughter's age do. > So I can only assume that you're older than 21... ;) > > I'm not primarily into modern fashion either, but I do believe in > being dressed; Agreed. I wouldn't go so far as saying fashion is only for the young; some fashion trends require amounts of money that a 20-something usually won't have. I have always thought of "Fashion" with a capital F of being the prerogative of 30-40 somethings with money. After about 45 or so, only the diehards who are really interested in fashion follow it more than casually. -- Cathy Raymond "As a general rule, if end users want to smash something repeatedly with a sledgehammer, that's a sign of bad UI."--Bram Cohen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 16:41:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OKfwun009402 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:41:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OKe1ma007784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:40:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKdxjV098325; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:39:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OKduPl098283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:39:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EJGo4-00038j-Ec; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:39:36 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:39:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20050924153936.jmtpls40nndw0k4w@www.goldsword.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:39:36 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question References: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - mail.indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Chindora@aol.com: > Greetings~ > > I am looking to make my daughter a coif embroidered like ones worn in the > 15th and 16th century in England. I am planning to incorporate blackwork > surface embroidery as well as gold embellishment. I have run across > a particular > embroidery stitch repeatedly, and cannot figure out exactly which stitch it > is. I have seen it in many period pieces, and would like to use it in her > coif. You can see it in this close-up at > > _http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ > (http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) > > I am specifically referring to the gold embroidery. It looks like it could > be a braided chain stitch or the double back stitch, or something....but I > would like to try to find out from someone who has more knowledge about > embroidery from that period exactly what it is. I I believe it's called the plaited braid stitch. I found a couple of books that purport to show you how to do it -- there's an SCA book list that in the comments about one of the embroidery books says "this book has the best description of the plaited braid stitch in my whole collection -- unfortunately, I don't remember which list -- or which book! *sigh* I'll check when I get home. The web sites that I found are http://www.annatextiles.ch/vo_sti/voca4/voc4.htm http://www.craftown.com/instruction/silk.htm You might also drop in on the h-needlework list H-needlework mailing list H-needlework@ansteorra.org http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/h-needlework There are lots of other SCA-related needlework lists -- you can email me off list for the particulars if you'd like. Jerusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 17:34:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8OLYN6i010173 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:34:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8OLWe35011484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:32:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OLWcWX019923; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:32:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8OLWYOm019896 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:32:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EJHdJ-000HTr-8h for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:32:34 +0000 Message-ID: <3Jbr0vCmWcNDJwAj@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:31:18 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> In-Reply-To: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO None! If I'm travelling by train or plane I get Marie-Claire or Red, and I get really fed up of reading the good articles at the front, and then having to pay for, and lug around, all the fashion/make-up/food/interiors/travel which doesn't interest me at all. Wish you could just buy it in sections. Jean In message <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny>, Penny Ladnier writes >What current day fashion magazines do you all read? > >Penny E. Ladnier >Owner, >The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com >Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com >Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 19:10:53 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ONAqht011288 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:10:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ONAHVj024660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:10:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ONAFPc062399; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:10:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52803.mail.yahoo.com (web52803.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.246]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8ONADTG062347 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:10:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 37724 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Sep 2005 23:10:07 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=k8oxNB9M6VdQ0JHH5ADy7URLh8JWKaFs7TxKOdutBZz6vzKGhx+svAd8+gbzafgKxZIEgu98VzzE7gv0vRtcVEAR2Uc5+uznQUU4yrfr8todbXRYguN/+5PxYHX+ZwDnQ4odW7lJzmnqlZDV5FkyZx1lvgDfHcS/Vj7FvsPA+QQ= ; Message-ID: <20050924231007.37722.qmail@web52803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:10:07 PDT Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050924205349.01d354d8@127.0.0.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The problem is that there's an extra underscore at the end of the address. Cut and paste it (instead of clicking on it), and then remove the last _ before hitting enter, and it comes up. KP Suzi Clarke wrote: At 20:31 24/09/2005, you wrote: >Greetings~ > >I am looking to make my daughter a coif embroidered like ones worn in the >15th and 16th century in England. I am planning to incorporate blackwork >surface embroidery as well as gold embellishment. I have run >across a particular >embroidery stitch repeatedly, and cannot figure out exactly which stitch it >is. I have seen it in many period pieces, and would like to use it in her >coif. You can see it in this close-up at > >_http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ Just for fun - I am getting an error message on this one. "These Weapons of Mass Destruction Cannot Be Displayed at this Time"!!! >(http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) > >I am specifically referring to the gold embroidery. It looks like it could >be a braided chain stitch or the double back stitch, or something....but I >would like to try to find out from someone who has more knowledge about >embroidery from that period exactly what it is. I tried, once, >doing a heavy chain >stitch with metallic thread on satin, and it was abysmal failure. The >metallic thread just kept making a mess. It could be that it was >the satin, and >that I needed a looser weave of fabric, such as the linen I will be >using, but >I would also like recommendations for the best metallic thread to use to get >a look as close to accurate as possible. I am going to a series of lectures on gold and silver thread and metallic embroidery but not for a month. Do you want copies of any notes that I think are relevant? > >I also understand that there is a particular silk thread to use for >blackwork that gives a very nice, clean finish. I am very limited >locally, and will >have to do mail order for all of my supplies for this project. Any >suggestions for sources would be greatly appreciated. Can't help with this I'm afraid. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 19:11:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8ONBlKv011304 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:11:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8ONBPMl024802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:11:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ONBOP8062855; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:11:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8ONBLrc062819 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:11:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 596795DDD for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924153956.03717c00@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:48:35 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: US Reenacting (was: why renaissance and not 18th century?) In-Reply-To: <018001c5c074$c6e36da0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> References: <200509221948.j8MJjLbk086579@net.indra.com> <8C78DD64050E45A-E20-2CD3@FWM-R27.sysops.aol.com> <004401c5bfe5$0565f0b0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> <6.2.1.2.0.20050923021306.035e92e8@64.87.54.245> <018001c5c074$c6e36da0$8742fea9@owner85a4f9e93> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:27 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: >In fact did you know there were Bristish WWII and Colonial period >reenactors there in central California. They are based out of Fresno. I >used to work at the LHS faires. Those were some of the largest renn >faires in the country. The parties I mentioned earlier were made up >mostly of old Renn Faire people. Kevin Brown, David Springhorn, Bill >Rockford, Tim Kinkas, etc.. > >Ron CArnegie I knew of the British WWI & WWII people through a friend who does activities with them. He says they usually meet for war game re-enactment in the deserts east of LA, like 29 Palms area or something on private property, iirc (we talked about that a couple of years ago, so my memory isn't clear). I was not aware of Colonial period re-enactors here, or any other re-enactors, other than the big Civil War (big for us) groups that apparently come in from everywhere across the western states for our Kearny Park event (which is in a couple of weeks.) I was a member of the Costumer's Guild in LA and got their listing of events, and now am a member of GBACG so I know of the Bay Area events. But sadly, there seems to be a dearth of historical re-enactment events in the Central Valley, at least that I am aware of. It seems we have many cultural events here, which is a different thing altogether. If there are other re-enactment groups that are based in Fresno or nearby, I would love to know about them. I am with a small group of mostly women, and a few men, who are itching to create costumes for time frames outside of the Renaissance period, and have someplace suitable to wear them to. And preferably something not war-based, although I know many are war-based. So far, Civil War or museum events (Kearny and Meux homes) doing a "Victorian" Christmas are about it that we know of. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 20:31:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P0V8dk012111 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P0UecB035188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:30:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0UcFO095592; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:30:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qproxy.gmail.com (qproxy.gmail.com [72.14.204.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0UZtU095541 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:30:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by qproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id e34so34912qbe for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:30:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hE+vSs+kj93Yf0D0DGZQI9FVqDqpu1J4IMBXDsnWCh0ucutBJvJBv+OqtKUaY55TCPsCYpcXwoS1HPdhhsyNBWq0GfxbKILG44NdpFTbSBRd7cTyhFNUiQMzycniAD5A3Pf2d1Iy5LKn8r1ziGTEUSHvSp4rC560GV9CqDmTr8o= Received: by 10.65.22.20 with SMTP id z20mr363959qbi; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.40.14 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc266050924173018bcddb9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:30:29 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question In-Reply-To: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <1f2.12ccca5b.30670390@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8P0UZtU095541 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hey there... that is a form of chain stitch. give me a sec... I'll go look for a reference... ... OK... Therese de Dilmont calls it Basket stitch. Which is just a modified chain. p. 135 in the 2002 reprint. In my original volume p. 139. Mildred Davis -- calls it simply heavy chain. And the V&A... in their descriptions of items that use the stitch calls it just plain chain stitch in metallic threads. I find de Dilmont to be the best description for boullion work. Have fun. Mari / Bridgette On 9/24/05, Chindora@aol.com wrote: > Greetings~ > > I am looking to make my daughter a coif embroidered like ones worn in the > 15th and 16th century in England. I am planning to incorporate blackwork > surface embroidery as well as gold embellishment. I have run across a particular > embroidery stitch repeatedly, and cannot figure out exactly which stitch it > is. I have seen it in many period pieces, and would like to use it in her > coif. You can see it in this close-up at > > _http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ > (http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) > > I am specifically referring to the gold embroidery. It looks like it could > be a braided chain stitch or the double back stitch, or something....but I > would like to try to find out from someone who has more knowledge about > embroidery from that period exactly what it is. I tried, once, doing a heavy chain > stitch with metallic thread on satin, and it was abysmal failure. The > metallic thread just kept making a mess. It could be that it was the satin, and > that I needed a looser weave of fabric, such as the linen I will be using, but > I would also like recommendations for the best metallic thread to use to get > a look as close to accurate as possible. > > I also understand that there is a particular silk thread to use for > blackwork that gives a very nice, clean finish. I am very limited locally, and will > have to do mail order for all of my supplies for this project. Any > suggestions for sources would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks! > > Kimberley > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 20:35:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P0ZGVL012179 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:35:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P0Yngx035704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:34:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0YmYS097298; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:34:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.192]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0YlYu097259 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:34:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so132267nzf for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:34:42 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=bF7pgK7MHUwoJW74mZbzf2avsKl8kFdOG+Yk1fuMZvV2vsRRxzPqcXUfbjFPyKxIdcsRCEj5o5/X+VD5ZvEHCyIYs9/bKDNG27UoEWKyvoEVCXHzS16M9ipAlw546e24jCBqetY9UCNyomNv/Xq2UTuCwKShMpHyQhBCIdFN2O4= Received: by 10.36.19.8 with SMTP id 8mr196755nzs; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:34:42 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8P0YlYu097259 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >What current day fashion magazines do you all read? Answers only make sense if you samples all the magazines read. IMHO to really make sense of this question, a pollster should address the whole person, their lifestyle, workstyle, friends & acquantances, and fiscal situation. Cheryldee's excellent point... "it's all about who you want to fit in with" is clearly spot-on. I would modify it ever-so-slightly to "it's all about who you can & want to fit in with". I may _want_ to fit in with the billionaire yacht owners in Nice, but cannot at this time. Now, to answer your question: I only read "Wired" (fashion) & the Economist (not-fashion). Yeah, some of you are going to deny this is "fashion", but go look at the "Play" and "Fetish" sections. Geek-chic. It's all about the accessories. Here in Silly-con Valley, particularly among the tech &/or MBA set, this *is* fashion. Being the first to get that Blackberry, Zire, wireless access, a memory key, Mot flip-phone, or the Vaio is fashionable. We just call it "cool" here. Early this year it was the ear-wrap cellphone headset, now it's the eyeglass mounted hands-free cellph. Oakley has one. If only I wore glasses. My current "must-have" is a WAP-sniffer that discriminates between locked/unlocked sites, gives IP address and details signal strength. Oh, and I want it purse-sized. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 20:37:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P0bf7h012234 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P0bHK3036076 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:37:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0bEXw098353; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:37:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d23.mx.aol.com (imo-d23.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0bBnh098314 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:37:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from SNSpies@aol.com) Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-d23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.20f.a0ea195 (4459) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:37:04 -0400 (EDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Message-ID: <20f.a0ea195.30674b30@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:37:04 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_20f.a0ea195.30674b30_boundary" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5017 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] pockets (Fwd: Artssciences Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --part1_20f.a0ea195.30674b30_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please send your responses directly to Gia who requested this information. Thank you. Nancy From: "Jennifer Potts" Subject: [SCA-AS] Pockets in period To: Message-ID: <20050918174321.HGDM6852.priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net@jencodivvz309u> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been seeing "pockets" for women on a lot of the recreationist sites. Does anyone know of any documentation for the use of these in Venice during the 16th century? Gia --part1_20f.a0ea195.30674b30_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --part1_20f.a0ea195.30674b30_boundary-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 20:54:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P0soRn012405 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:54:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P0sPfo038801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:54:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0sOis007118; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:54:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0sM86007082 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:54:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 12so123903nzp for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:54:17 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=JmqlosV516c7OBQ/N/lHb+7YI/5LsCTkToVKwlwrYz2m8hJsyGgXo5/rnb44K8SBpG6b78sglJDz3fXMpFr3AgdJ1d+Wsl7mEC5K2dghxQzHejg8ex7HDIILHDQEghuo6eJgHu1amweA3S0VYQBCL+y8F7mD3GilTq3TydjV7JQ= Received: by 10.36.23.6 with SMTP id 6mr340472nzw; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:54:17 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8P0sM86007082 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] History in Fresno et environs X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >If there are other re-enactment groups that are based in Fresno or nearby, >I would love to know about them. I am with a small group of mostly women, >and a few men, who are itching to create costumes for time frames outside >of the Renaissance period, and have someplace suitable to wear them to. And >preferably something not war-based, although I know many are war-based. So >far, Civil War or museum events (Kearny and Meux homes) doing >a "Victorian" Christmas are about it that we know of. LAHA www.lahacal.org leaps to mind, tho it's not exactly "close" except that we're both from Calif where "close" has a different scale, nay, a different order of magnitude, than it does in other parts of the world. San Diego Historical district, too, tho' it's less "close". Many of the adobes & state historical parks around the missions have volunteer associations, too. Some are Victorian, some are Californio & some are Spanish period. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 20:57:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P0vQhX012436 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:57:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P0v0XN039125 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:57:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0v0Q3008138; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:57:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from draco.its.csufresno.edu (draco.its.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.69]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P0uvVS008119 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:56:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by draco.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD37F5D37C for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924174312.036ea398@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:49:01 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: jeans In-Reply-To: References: <200509231803.j8NI3VQ3060588@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:34 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: >Julie wrote: > >Remember bell bottoms? > >A co-worker of mine swears that they are back, but I can't find any. I was >at the Chicago Gap store last week, and they certainly didn't have any >there. Darn. I love bellbottoms! > >Gail Finke Our locally based department store Gottschalks actually carries them, according to the latest advertisement I just was looking at last night, trying to see what era of garments are currently in fashion among the younger set. The young lady model was wearing very full bell bottoms in fall colors. Unfortunately, they don't sell online it seems. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 21:13:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P1DPKw012547 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P1Cwgh041484 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:12:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P1CsU9014541; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:12:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P1CqGO014524 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:12:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4874517EBF for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:12:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:12:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <72adc266050924173018bcddb9@mail.gmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I do not think it is a basket stitch but I could be wrong. http://www.fashion-era.com/smocking_page_2.htm The gold embroidery looks to be chainstitch (there is a name for it when stitched that close) or two rows of stemstitch. Also a possibility (can't find my embroidery book) Have a back stitch of silk, then thread like a stemstitch through the silk with the gold. Could be a wheat stitch. Been a while since I embroidered. If I have time I will dig out my books if no one else is able to help. De -----Original Message----- > I am looking to make my daughter a coif embroidered like ones worn in the > 15th and 16th century in England. I am planning to incorporate blackwork > surface embroidery as well as gold embellishment. I have run across a particular > embroidery stitch repeatedly, and cannot figure out exactly which stitch it > is. I have seen it in many period pieces, and would like to use it in her > coif. You can see it in this close-up at > > _http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg_ > (http://costume.dm.net/va/coifs/blackgoldcloseup2.jpg) > > Thanks! > > Kimberley > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 21:18:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P1INm2012629 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:18:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P1I56S042552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:18:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P1I46K016773; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:18:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from keaton.its.csufresno.edu (keaton.csufresno.edu [129.8.52.178]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P1I0gL016736 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:18:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by keaton.its.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35624519A2 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924180413.036e9aa0@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:17:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] History in Fresno et environs In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 05:54 PM 9/24/2005, you wrote: >LAHA www.lahacal.org leaps to mind, tho it's not exactly "close" >except that we're both from Calif where "close" has a different scale, >nay, a different order of magnitude, than it does in other parts of >the world. San Diego Historical district, too, tho' it's less >"close". Many of the adobes & state historical parks around the >missions have volunteer associations, too. Some are Victorian, some >are Californio & some are Spanish period. >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >CinBarnes@gmail.com Ah, thanks, but that's again at least 4+ hours from here. One great thing about Fresno is that we are about 4-6 hours from great places, but that's also a big drawback. At one time I would easily travel to N & S California for various events, but with small kids, that isn't a great option for us anymore (I would be too stressed out by the time I got anywhere). I hope to travel more in a few years when they are older and more inclined to be involved. I used to even live in San Diego when I was a student, but that's 6+ hours (depending on traffic). I loved Old Town area. And missions are all on the coast (2+ hours to the closest). Thanks for the suggestions. I will pass these on to my friends who don't have little ones anymore. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 21:40:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P1eaoQ012886 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:40:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P1dxJW047080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:39:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P1dvCp025599; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:39:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail7.tpgi.com.au (mail7.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.103]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P1dpqH025568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:39:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-222-147-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.147]) by mail7.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8P1dnKG017171 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:39:51 +1000 Message-ID: <002201c5c171$e48df160$93def5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:38:53 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? > Hi Elizabeth. What kind of shape are you trying to achieve? What period? > Sg > I was originally planning a reproduction of the 1856-60 wedding dress in Patterns of Fashion 1 (the last dress apart from the revised 18th century mantle) but as the only place I can wear a post 1600 outfit is a ball I will probably make a ballgown first and then I'll see if I have enough fabric left to make a day bodice (to go with the same skirt). I bought the elliptical hoop pattern because it's smaller than the round hoop pattern, 9764 (which is still available) and although round hoops were more common in the 50s the oval skirt does show up periodically (in fact I think the original wedding dress in PoF1 may have been worn over an oval hoop as the back of the skirt is longer than the front). Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Sep 24 22:34:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P2YDIQ013507 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:34:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P2XhTu056568 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P2Xf0R046485; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail9.tpgi.com.au (mail9.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.104]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P2XaIB046454 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-222-147-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.147]) by mail9.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8P2XYQO019547 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:33:35 +1000 Message-ID: <008701c5c179$6650c4a0$93def5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "historic costume" Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:32:38 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] plastic hoopskirt boning has anybody experimented? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO OK, as I've been informed (offlist) that most of the readymade hoopskirts have flimsy boning I was wondering if anybody else had used this "triple flex" plastic boning http://www.venacavadesign.co.uk/Pages/DraftRigilene.htm#Triple. As I plan to buy the materials for a corset from this company anyway I thought I may as well buy hoop boning there too. Their description sounds good but they've got a vested interest in promoting this product over the (steel) alternative. I was hoping that somebody else has experimented with this and could give me an independent review. They are willing to send a sample to experiment with, but the postage (to Australia) would be prohibitively expensive. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 00:05:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P45HAl014478 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:05:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P44aTf069613 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:04:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P44Z09079576; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:04:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from macdui.scotsman.com (macdui.scotsman.com [80.75.65.9]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P44UDW079530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:04:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from send2friend@scotsman.com) Received: from web2 (80-75-65-11.eqsn.net [80.75.65.11]) by macdui.scotsman.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j8P4Bk8Z002995 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 05:11:46 +0100 Message-ID: <1308099.1127621064836.JavaMail.coldfusion@web2> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 05:04:24 +0100 (BST) From: send2friend@scotsman.com To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: ColdFusion MX Application Server X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Miniatures are big deal for gallery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan Jurancich [joanmj@surewest.net] saw this on Scotsman.com and thought you should see it too: Message: If anyone can get to the Scottish National Portrait Gallery to see this exhibit, please let us know about it. Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Miniatures are big deal for gallery TINY priceless portraits from mystery collection go on show in city, with two rare gems that stunned experts. http://heritage.scotsman.com/traditions.cfm?id=1982942005 ---------------------------------------------------------------- [64.30.124.106] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 00:49:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P4nTgx014959 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:49:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P4n2fC076791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:49:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P4n0q6094930; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:49:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ihug-mail.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au (mail-iinet.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.198] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P4mtKH094859 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:48:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-7-16.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) ([203.173.7.16]) by ihug-mail.icp-qv1-irony4.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 25 Sep 2005 12:48:51 +0800 Message-ID: <43362E07.7060306@earthlydelights.com.au> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:56:39 +1000 From: A & J Garden Organization: Earthly Delights User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] plastic hoopskirt boning has anybody experimented? References: <008701c5c179$6650c4a0$93def5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <008701c5c179$6650c4a0$93def5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Elizabeth - I have some steel boning I can sell you if you want some - reasonable price too. Cheers, Aylwen Elizabeth Walpole wrote: >OK, as I've been informed (offlist) that most of the readymade hoopskirts >have flimsy boning I was wondering if anybody else had used this "triple >flex" plastic boning >http://www.venacavadesign.co.uk/Pages/DraftRigilene.htm#Triple. As I plan to >buy the materials for a corset from this company anyway I thought I may as >well buy hoop boning there too. Their description sounds good but they've >got a vested interest in promoting this product over the (steel) >alternative. I was hoping that somebody else has experimented with this and >could give me an independent review. >They are willing to send a sample to experiment with, but the postage (to >Australia) would be prohibitively expensive. >thanks >Elizabeth >-------------------------------------------- >Elizabeth Walpole >Canberra Australia >ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au >http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 00:56:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P4u8Dl015014 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:56:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P4tiLF078055 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:55:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P4thPt097471; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:55:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc13.comcast.net [204.127.198.39]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P4tdHb097411 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:55:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Rampant_Peacock@comcast.net) Received: from molly (c-24-22-153-88.hsd1.wa.comcast.net[24.22.153.88]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP id <200509250455340150044lmre>; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 04:55:34 +0000 From: "Molly Boone" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] plastic hoopskirt boning has anybody experimented? Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 21:57:39 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <008701c5c179$6650c4a0$93def5dc@e9q5h8> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I haven't experimented with their boning, but I found a plastic that I do like and it holds up well to abuse and weight. I use a 1/4 inch diameter clear, flexible plumbers tubing in my hoopskirt, I have to put a petty coat between the hoop and my underskirt (Elizabethan) to keep hoop ridges from showing, but it takes the weight of the beaded brocade underskirt and the brocade overskirt without twisting out of round. With the Western Washington state Humidity and rains we get it also holds up a lot better than regular hoop wire did with the same gown. I have photos where the gown looks like a sad pannier attempt because the front and back collapsed into oval shape with the old wire. I got the tubing tip from Mistress Laurelinn, an SCA Laurel from An Tir. It is also a lot cheaper and easier to get. I buy mine at a local hardware store. Molly -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 7:33 PM To: historic costume Subject: [h-cost] plastic hoopskirt boning has anybody experimented? OK, as I've been informed (offlist) that most of the readymade hoopskirts have flimsy boning I was wondering if anybody else had used this "triple flex" plastic boning http://www.venacavadesign.co.uk/Pages/DraftRigilene.htm#Triple. As I plan to buy the materials for a corset from this company anyway I thought I may as well buy hoop boning there too. Their description sounds good but they've got a vested interest in promoting this product over the (steel) alternative. I was hoping that somebody else has experimented with this and could give me an independent review. They are willing to send a sample to experiment with, but the postage (to Australia) would be prohibitively expensive. thanks Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 00:58:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8P4wqvb015041 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:58:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8P4wUeZ078657 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P4wUMK098374; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:58:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8P4wQ6W098303 for ; Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:58:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Appin1@aol.com) Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1a8.3fbe6fbd (3310) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:58:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Message-ID: <1a8.3fbe6fbd.30678869@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:58:17 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5119 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1099/Fri Sep 23 14:29:28 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like InStyle, which may not qualify as a fashion magazine, but I think it's got great fashion sense. Kathleen Norvell _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 08:26:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PCQh8I032248 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:26:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PCPq3H031475 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:25:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PCPlPV053001; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:25:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qproxy.gmail.com (qproxy.gmail.com [72.14.204.200]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PCPial052964 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:25:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from maricelt@gmail.com) Received: by qproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id e34so9464qbe for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 05:25:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ZSz+tkhc8aQUv8ZQwbKpl+F/JuBcwbG+/iyszPSjCtBwlMC2m28CNjo0pQ/Px0XhhF3XDruMvjKhU5eb7Ah2tx3T/nNZXrCk0onjJhGMbgTlJQyfhE+Xheoub6d3tK4+B8p5Y2rCItOYd+0wOxnYn4Q+dZJ4hcYPA9yJgmrIrns= Received: by 10.64.241.5 with SMTP id o5mr422079qbh; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 05:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.40.14 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 05:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <72adc266050925052552230209@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:25:38 -0400 From: Marie Stewart To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <72adc266050924173018bcddb9@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1101/Sun Sep 25 04:54:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1101/Sun Sep 25 04:54:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8PCPial052964 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi folks... remember... stitch names vary - sometimes wildly from era to era, and author to author... Others remain stable. That is why I gave the name of the author as well as the name of the stitch as it is described in their book. OK... so the smocking site "uses" the term basket stitch a different way... fine... not the one I was referring to... ; > And in addition some groups have "traditional" names or use intentionally older names for stitches, and that can add to the confusion. For example, in my area of the SCA this stitch is called "plaited" chain or "plaited braid" stitch. The second one always makes me ask for clarification, because "plaited braid" as I learned it from my grandmother was an open stitch used for filling in various embroidered laces. Mari / Bridgette On 9/24/05, otsisto wrote: > I do not think it is a basket stitch but I could be wrong. > http://www.fashion-era.com/smocking_page_2.htm _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 08:34:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PCYOgD032343 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:34:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PCY5Es033704 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:34:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PCY1WD055901; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:34:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PCXwQx055811 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:34:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A92F0238; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:33:51 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.146 ([209.131.80.146] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 25 Sep 05 12:33:47 -0000 Message-ID: <003901c5c1cd$db33f900$925083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509231430.j8NEUAxa013553@net.indra.com><6.2.3.4.0.20050923160427.01d308a0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:37:11 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1101/Sun Sep 25 04:54:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1101/Sun Sep 25 04:54:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have a wonderful pair put up as MJs in paisley. They have tiny heels. I admit that it takes a bit of getting used to in the wearing and walking. The long toe is apt to trip one up if one doesn't watch it! We are so used to scuffing and clumping around in tennies and clogs that we forget the mind set needed to walk gracefully in proper dress shoes. I remember in the mid '50s when I got my first pair of pointy stilletos how different it was to walk in my usual rushing manner in them. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Suzi Clarke" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:05 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century > > > > At 15:40 23/09/2005, you wrote: > >>>From: Cynthia J Ley > >>> > winkle pickers. > >>>??? > >> > >>A particular long toed style of mens shoe popular in the 50s. > >> > >>Marc > > > > > > And women's. They are currently to be seen in shoe shops in Europe as a > > "new" fashion. > > > > Suzi > > > > They've been there for a while. Actually, I started seeing them about 3 > years ago here in Montreal. Always thought they looked ugly - make the feet > look so weird, and the poor girl always looks like she's going to trip on > the tips and fall flat on her face. There seems to be a little less of them > around this season (thank God!). > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 08:37:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PCbdSY032388 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:37:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PCbKan034629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:37:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PCbH7O057220; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:37:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PCbCHn057146 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:37:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id A9F10210; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:37:05 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.146 ([209.131.80.146] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 25 Sep 05 12:37:01 -0000 Message-ID: <004301c5c1ce$4edda720$925083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20a.a118080.3065ad8d@aol.com> <43345D37.9010007@lavoltapress.com><4334A2D5.10707@floodcity.net> <4334BA9C.9030406@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:40:26 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1101/Sun Sep 25 04:54:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1101/Sun Sep 25 04:54:35 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you for this list Fran. I will add it to mine. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Kitty Felton" ; Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century-influences > I don't know what you think is interesting . . . > > A couple good eBay sellers of "gypsy" skirts are aonneo (the Thai > seller; very cheap and great service) and funtique-23 (in California). > Tons of other people sell them there though. China-usa (actually also > in California) sells lovely Victorianish hand-crocheted things, very > high quality, at good prices. Don't overbid, they are a manufacturer > and have more of almost everything in stock. For embroidered kebayas, > you can search "kebaya" on eBay and sometimes find a couple, but I got > mine from www.kebayas.com, who is not on ebay and says she has no plans > to sell there. She will custom size her ready-to-wear to some extent > (they're not quite RTW, I think she may pre-embroider them but she sews > them after you order), and she will send fabric swatches. Which you will > need because her web pictures have little to do with her fabric colors. > http://www.charitysalesonline.org is a company in Nepal that sells > hand-loomed (knitting machine, I think) cashmere ponchos. They knit > them in white and will dye them any color you want. You can get several > at a lower price and get one color of each. Meaning you can go in with > some friends, or have a bunch of ponchos if you want. They will send > you color swatches too, but they charge for them. Peruvian alpaca ones > are cheaper and there are lots on eBay, you can just do a search. You > can buy embroidered Indian kurtas and other Indian clothes all over the > place, including lots on eBay, but the quality varies from great to > awful. http://www.shalincraft.com, who sells on Amazon apparel but not > eBay as far as I know, has good quality in my experience. A good online > seller of "wearable art" is www.artfulwears.com. Some of their stuff is > RTW but a lot of it appears to be handmade, limited-edition items. > > For vintage and antique clothes on eBay, your best bet is to get into > (for example) clothing/vintage/women/1920s, or whatever subcategory > interests you, and browse. Unless you're looking for something really > specific. Then you can get into the category and search on (for example) > "black velvet jacket." > > Hope this helps. > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > > > > > > > Hi fran, could you tell me what you search for on ebay to find > > interesting stuff? thanks, Kitty > > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 11:33:56 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PFXtip001936 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:33:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PFXDdr055142 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:33:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PFX9xo021641; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:33:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web81404.mail.yahoo.com (web81404.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.37.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8PFX8Sw021573 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:33:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garbaholic@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 83988 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Sep 2005 15:33:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:X-RocketYMMF:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=oKHQYMSU7sBX2qzyoSvZM978qYKLGLTGR6Vb/U+5C/724M2zuIHY8FP/hAiH/t9HwtJiFBOXAl4+jILJ8PvUcvurmYBla6bObw9NFzaSG60KLp5CbVyYwsKlrfaIa5c8iN6F9mCTtkc1F43rWUvA3x+5D3yaKMXigJ8+vPxd38c= ; Message-ID: <20050925153302.83986.qmail@web81404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.152.238.103] by web81404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:33:02 PDT X-RocketYMMF: cybalshouse Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:33:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Doyle Subject: Re: [h-cost] Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <72adc266050925052552230209@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I called it plaited braid based upon Jane Zimmerman's book Elizabethan Embroidery, nice close ups of exantant embroideries as well as clear instructions on how to do the stitch. alex --- Marie Stewart wrote: > Hi folks... remember... stitch names vary - sometimes wildly from era > to era, and author to author... Others remain stable. That is why I > gave the name of the author as well as the name of the stitch as it > is described in their book. > > OK... so the smocking site "uses" the term basket stitch a different > way... fine... not the one I was referring to... ; > > > And in addition some groups have "traditional" names or use > intentionally older names for stitches, and that can add to the > confusion. For example, in my area of the SCA this stitch is called > "plaited" chain or "plaited braid" stitch. The second one always > makes me ask for clarification, because "plaited braid" as I learned > it from my grandmother was an open stitch used for filling in various > embroidered laces. > > Mari / Bridgette > > On 9/24/05, otsisto wrote: > > I do not think it is a basket stitch but I could be wrong. > > http://www.fashion-era.com/smocking_page_2.htm > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 11:53:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PFrZ7i002179 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:53:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PFr1Po056750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:53:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PFqxKb029821; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:52:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PFqtHw029784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:52:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-185.sonic.net [209.148.114.185]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PFqrMe001479 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:52:54 -0700 Message-ID: <4336C7D5.10705@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 08:52:53 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <1a8.3fbe6fbd.30678869@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <1a8.3fbe6fbd.30678869@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I like InStyle more than any fashion magazine. It's more sensible than most of them. I'm letting my _Vogue_ subscription lapse in favor of it. Not exactly fashion magazines, but I used to read _Sew News_ and _Threads_ regularly, in fact both since about the time they started publishing. However, I let my subscription to _Sew News_ lapse several years ago, and I just did the same for _Threads_. They both became utter beginner magazines. I assume because that's a bigger market and is therefore more profitable for them, but whole magazines full of articles on things like basic info on how to select needes, do nothing for me. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Appin1@aol.com wrote: >I like InStyle, which may not qualify as a fashion magazine, but I think it's >got great fashion sense. > >Kathleen Norvell > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 12:08:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PG8nHC002397 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PG8Jne057772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:08:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PG8I4D035691; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web51311.mail.yahoo.com (web51311.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.39.118]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8PG8GFq035639 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:08:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elvestoorder@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 51310 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Sep 2005 16:08:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=LFcynMOl4PTvqK2owsw3weJ8KlQtSgKzxaXR0psY1+3QG6cUozUOEpQ1cUmbHsSgVN1sZ4t1KWvRjYAGOIecNbtdC/VixnfQrbvVtIrTpJgIt4DBVBZKvrH65M1uM+gaLtKC+9ApQ9dGNblHJY8kdbkUNrnK0OBk8zHHmSziHIA= ; Message-ID: <20050925160810.51308.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.182.221.61] by web51311.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:08:10 PDT Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:08:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ann Catelli Subject: Gor for it Re: [h-cost] Re: US Reenacting To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924153956.03717c00@64.87.54.245> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO You say you've got a group--pick a period & go for it. Have a party or a day in someone's house, backyard, or local park. Heck, hold a quilting bee, if that's appropriate for the period you pick. The best way to have something done is to do it. Ann in CT --- Kimiko Small wrote: > re-enactment [near] Fresno > I am with a small group of mostly women, > and a few men, who are itching to create costumes > for time frames outside > of the Renaissance period, and have someplace > suitable to wear them to. > > Kimiko __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 14:57:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PIv8qK004583 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:57:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PIuW6t072465 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:56:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PIuOrx011580; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:56:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-f5.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PIu84d011435 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:56:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from marccarlson20@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:56:02 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.208 by by106fd.bay106.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:56:02 GMT X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.208] X-Originating-Email: [marccarlson20@hotmail.com] X-Sender: marccarlson20@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <200509241428.j8OERa4Z035047@net.indra.com> From: "Marc Carlson" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:56:02 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2005 18:56:02.0818 (UTC) FILETIME=[C6A25E20:01C5C202] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: the 20th century X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From: Suzi Clarke >Sorry Marc, they may have originally been a man's style, but I was >wearing them in the '50's, and they were called winkle pickers then. >I am old enough to have been wearing so called fashion in the 50's. I >didn't wear them for long, or often, as they hurt my feet!! >(Incidentally, at about that age, I was given a pair of my Grandma's >shoes, possibly from the First World War, which had long points - >and I couldn't wear them either... Why sorry? It's nothing but a different interpretation of the evidence :) Nothing to be sorry about. And just because a fashion item that was initially used by one gender winds up being used for the other (or even the *name* for a fashion item , etc) that later use has no bearing on it's origins. I will say that fashion items do seem to flow more from being used by men to being used by both genders, than they do the other way. I would tend to speculate that traditionally men are more reluctant to risk looking feminine than women are to risk looking masculine. There are of course notable exceptions to this, but even those seem less likely to make it into widespread culture. As winklepickers in the 50s were, on men, a part of a certain macho image, so it just seems unlikely to me that it was something they got from women's fashion and adapted. Actually, I'm thinking the Americans and British picked it up from the Italians, but my memory may be playing tricks on me here. Marc _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 16:40:59 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PKewY5006151 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:40:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PKeOgo080835 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:40:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PKeKBX058091; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:40:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PKeGge058056 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:40:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTHBKMGN408YXSWI@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:40:14 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTHBKM40H0971FRL@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:40:13 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:40:04 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines In-reply-to: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <43370B24.5030909@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Penny Ladnier wrote: > What current day fashion magazines do you all read? > Absolutely none. Don't get me started. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 16:42:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PKgUDH006176 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:42:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PKg0d5080932 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:42:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PKfxo7058704; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:41:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PKfuge058670 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:41:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTHBMPF4O08YXSWI@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:41:55 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTHBMP0O3G970GF0@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:41:54 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:41:45 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines In-reply-to: <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > Well, I am rejoicing. I'm buying clothes like I haven't been for years. > > Stuff from the 1960s through the 1980s is getting mixed together and > marketed as "boho"--which is great with me. You're welcome to it-- I refer to that "look" as bo-hobo. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 17:00:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PL0diQ006464 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:00:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PL0Iux082322 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:00:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PL0GgD066050; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:00:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PL0CF1066025 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:00:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-168.sonic.net [209.148.114.168]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PL0Bhr018567 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:00:11 -0700 Message-ID: <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:00:12 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What do you prefer for "modern" wear? Fran Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Lavolta Press wrote: > >> Well, I am rejoicing. I'm buying clothes like I haven't been for years. >> >> Stuff from the 1960s through the 1980s is getting mixed together and >> marketed as "boho"--which is great with me. > > > You're welcome to it-- I refer to that "look" as bo-hobo. > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 17:14:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PLEOsW006620 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:14:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PLE2pC083579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLDxRm071682; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp104.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp104.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8PLDuLk071637 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 47156 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2005 21:13:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp104.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2005 21:13:51 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01c5c216$09fe58a0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> <43370B24.5030909@paradise.net.nz> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:13:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Fashion: Allure & Vogue. I use Vogue as a source of inspiration for costume design, and to pick up on current trends, or specific designs & techniques that intrigue me and the houses that originate them. I am a fiend for fashion photography as an art form. Costume: Threads I have to disagree with Fran that it is geared only for beginners, I am constantly finding inspiration and I doubt I'd qualify as a beginner. It is true that not every issue speaks to me, but seems that would be true of just about any publication. Just this last issue there were clear instructions on several techniques for unfinished edges, which I found quite useful for personal wear; also Stage Directions & Theater Bay Area. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines > Penny Ladnier wrote: >> What current day fashion magazines do you all read? >> > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 17:34:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PLYs6i006838 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:34:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PLYRkb085263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:34:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLYOC9080387; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:34:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLYLcH080362 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:34:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTHDGP6JQO9BYZS5@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:34:20 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTHDGOLLNG971ICT@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:34:19 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:34:09 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines In-reply-to: <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <433717D1.3000903@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > What do you prefer for "modern" wear? > Basically, I like clothes that look sleek. I'm on the chunky side, slightly top-heavy and don't have much of a waist, so it's very easy for me to look like a pile of fabric. Also, this pretty much means that fashion magazines are not pitched at me and at times I struggle to find anything that fits, let alone anything that I want. I like stripes and solids, but I'm _very_ choosy about prints. I don't like many of the prints I've seen in the shops lately-- they mainly seem to feature blurry flowers on a beige ground and similar. Generally, I like smoothish-textured fabrics better than ones with a lot of texture. Trousers and jeans are good, (not hip-huggers-- but that nasty little trend is showing signs of letting up, thank heavens) and skirts as long as they're not too short. I like the calf-length skirts that are appearing in the shops now, as long as they're not _too_ poofy. Nothing with a lot of gathering, ruching, ruffles, etc. I like semi-fitted tops and jackets-- nothing oversized or drapey, and nothing that looks too small, either. I _hate_ artificially-aged clothing or anything with frayed edges-- I'd like to get at least some wear out of something before it starts to look shabby. I also like things that are slightly whimsical. Colours... black has been a mainstay of my wardrobe for ages, but I'm buying more coloured things at the moment. I like lime green, red, light pink, black, tan but _loathe_ brown, purple, and blue in all its forms. This spring doesn't seem too bad (I'm in New Zealand; it's spring here). There's lots of boho-type stuff that I hate, but there's lots else to choose from. Winter was awful-- the shops were full of the ugliest sweaters I've ever seen. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 17:42:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PLg656006883 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:42:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PLfb4D085742 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:41:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLfanR083257; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:41:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav15.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.87]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLfWjU083198 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:41:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:41:27 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV15.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:41:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:41:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2005 21:41:27.0627 (UTC) FILETIME=[E24809B0:01C5C219] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > a lovely portrait, with a lovely dress. I would say regency except the > attributed sitter predates that era. > http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H5RT 1718-1746? No way! This makes no sense at all in the early 1700s! A century later, maybe. Look at her diadem, the teardrop pearls, the bracelets on her upper arms, the white and gold gathered underdress with red overdress (typical Regency colours), the short, curly hair and the high waistline! No way it's anything other than, oh... 1800-1810 maybe? Very beautiful dress. And I love her jewelry. Very interesting auctions. I've saved a couple of images. Thanks for sharing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 17:47:08 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PLl7Tv006939 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:47:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PLkkqh086135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:46:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLkjIR085330; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:46:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLkfBx085287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:46:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-168.sonic.net [209.148.114.168]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLkeuk026458 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:46:41 -0700 Message-ID: <43371AC2.8000505@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:46:42 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> <433717D1.3000903@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <433717D1.3000903@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > I _hate_ artificially-aged clothing or anything with frayed edges-- > I'd like to get at least some wear out of something before it starts > to look shabby. I know exactly what you mean. I like some of the "deconstructed" look in terms of very uneven hems, draping, layers, etc. I hate actual raw edges, because the garment falls apart so much quicker. That said, I'm probably giving up on the rather daunting task of going around every tier of those "fray skirts" (that I bought because I loved the styles, colors, and fabrics) and hand finishing them; or alternatively, taking them apart and putting them back together again. I've beein doing some of that though. > Winter was awful-- the shops were full of the ugliest sweaters I've > ever seen. I've been seeing some wonderful sweaters--batwings and other draped styles. A lot of them just swamp me, though I bought a nice drapey huge-batwing one recently. And I like sweater-coats--but not belted. They look dowdy belted. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 17:52:37 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PLqbgK007012 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:52:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PLqIrT086591 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:52:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLqHgT087610; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:52:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (cantva.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.2.27]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLqD43087593 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:52:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ladyadele@paradise.net.nz) Received: from CONVERSION-A1.it.canterbury.ac.nz by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) id <01LTHE3T0SI88Z02LP@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:52:11 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Received: from [132.181.4.133] (rcmt-cad45.it.canterbury.ac.nz [132.181.4.133]) by it.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF V6.2-X27 #30791) with ESMTP id <01LTHE3SMN8Q971LZS@it.canterbury.ac.nz> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:52:10 +1200 (NEW ZEALAND STANDARD TIME) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:51:59 +1200 From: Adele de Maisieres Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines In-reply-to: <43371AC2.8000505@lavoltapress.com> To: Historical Costume Message-id: <43371BFF.1060803@paradise.net.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.4 (Windows/20050908) References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> <433717D1.3000903@paradise.net.nz> <43371AC2.8000505@lavoltapress.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Lavolta Press wrote: > > I've been seeing some wonderful sweaters--batwings and other draped > styles. A lot of them just swamp me, though I bought a nice drapey > huge-batwing one recently. And I like sweater-coats--but not belted. > They look dowdy belted. I hate batwing sweaters _and_ sweater coats. And cowl-neck sweaters. And lumpy yarn. And drapey stuff. -- Adele de Maisieres ----------------------------- Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus ----------------------------- _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 17:57:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PLvhHH007064 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PLvMsf087108 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:57:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PLvLAG089924; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:57:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8PLvGfY089861 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:57:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 77366 invoked from network); 25 Sep 2005 21:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Sep 2005 21:57:07 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050925224845.01d3d6e8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:50:56 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 22:41 25/09/2005, you wrote: >>a lovely portrait, with a lovely dress. I would say regency except >>the attributed sitter predates that era. >>http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H5RT > >1718-1746? No way! This makes no sense at all in the early 1700s! A >century later, maybe. Look at her diadem, the teardrop pearls, the >bracelets on her upper arms, the white and gold gathered underdress >with red overdress (typical Regency colours), the short, curly hair >and the high waistline! No way it's anything other than, oh... 1800-1810 maybe? The artist is said to be a follower of Elizabeth Vigee-Lebrun who was painting in the late 18th and early 19th century, which confirms the painting date as being early 19th century in all likelihood. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 18:04:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PM4QO7007150 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:04:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PM43gb087528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:04:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PM41Lh092851; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:04:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav14.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.86]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PM3wvx092784 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:04:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:03:53 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV14.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:03:53 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6b.4e25ffa5.3066cbeb@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] the 20th century Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:02:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2005 22:03:53.0637 (UTC) FILETIME=[0490DD50:01C5C21D] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Pants for women. I think this is the one major change. In every other > period, men wear pants and women skirts. Of course, that really happened > in > the second part of the century... > > Actually men didn't wear "pants" until their skirts got so short they > needed > to connect their hose to avoid a public display. At least that is my > understanding. Cheryl Odom What I meant is that men wore visible separate leg coverings. In most periods, you can actually see that their lower body is made of two separate appendages (except monks, scholars, etc but they're not the norm). Women... welllll... AFAIK, they didn't start wearing garments with separate legs until the Regency, and even then, only as underwear. I know you're going to pull out some images of riding outfits, but they're not the norm either. I'm talking about normal, regular everyday wear here. In every period I know, you couldn't even tell women had separate legs unless you lifted up their skirts. The most daring it got was showing some *ankle* under the skirt (some à la polonaise dresses were pretty short, some of Elizabeth's later dresses too, and some Regency stuff as well - considered very daring at the time, from what I read). Even under those, women wore hose, or stockings, that didn't really go over the knee and were held by garters at knee level. And, of course, you'd never see them as outer wear. They weren't wearing anything like pants, with-or-without a crotch seam. True, in earlier medieval times, men wore somewhat shorter hose, more like thigh-highs, but the "skirt" in men's garments was almost always shorter than that of women - you don't ever see women's hose, but men's hose quickly starts being used more like outerwear. Even when men started wearing actual crotch-seamed pants, women kept wearing long skirts. And it went on until somewhere in the Victorian or Edwardian era (I'm no expert on those periods), where you start seeing some sportswear and bathing suits with actual LEGS on the outer garment. It only became acceptable for women to wear pants in most settings in what, the '70s? Of course, they started wearing them before that, but even today formal women's wear tends to be a dress or skirt of some kind. I guess I'm really trying to say that I'm not talking about the actual pant *pants* as of today, but of two-legged garments, as opposed to one-tubed one. Just think of the little male/female bathroom icons... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 18:05:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PM5NXo007160 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:05:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PM52rl087603 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PM52J3093318; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:05:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PM4uED093279 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:04:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-114-168.sonic.net [209.148.114.168]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PM4tqp028722 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:04:56 -0700 Message-ID: <43371F08.50600@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:04:56 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com> <43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> <433717D1.3000903@paradise.net.nz> <43371AC2.8000505@lavoltapress.com> <43371BFF.1060803@paradise.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <43371BFF.1060803@paradise.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I love cowl necks, and big turtlenecks, and "Marilyn" necks (just a rearranged cowl neck of course), batwing and dolman sleeves, and big, chunky sweaters. Cable knits. Cashmere, both the smooth flat 50s style knits and chunky knits. Embroidered sweaters. Hand-knitted sweaters. And ponchos. I adore ponchos, not the classic diamond "ethnic" ones so much, but the retangular-across ones and the ones with interesting drapes; especially knitted and crocheted ones. I'm betting capes come back soon--there are some around, particularly little capes, but they're not a major fashion trend right now as far as I can tell. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Adele de Maisieres wrote: > Lavolta Press wrote: > >> >> I've been seeing some wonderful sweaters--batwings and other draped >> styles. A lot of them just swamp me, though I bought a nice drapey >> huge-batwing one recently. And I like sweater-coats--but not >> belted. They look dowdy belted. > > I hate batwing sweaters _and_ sweater coats. And cowl-neck sweaters. > And lumpy yarn. And drapey stuff. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 18:06:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PM6L6c007168 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:06:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PM62h8087667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PM62MY093688; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:06:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PM5w07093659 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:05:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BFDBBDA8 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050925145520.03793848@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 14:58:19 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: Gor for it Re: [h-cost] Re: US Reenacting In-Reply-To: <20050925160810.51308.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924153956.03717c00@64.87.54.245> <20050925160810.51308.qmail@web51311.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 09:08 AM 9/25/2005, you wrote: >You say you've got a group--pick a period & go for it. > >Have a party or a day in someone's house, backyard, or >local park. Heck, hold a quilting bee, if that's >appropriate for the period you pick. > >The best way to have something done is to do it. > >Ann in CT Agreed. Thankfully, many of the ladies are used to working hard to put on an event. Several are guild masters or former guild masters, or are very involved in the ren-faire groups we are involved with. The hard part may be figuring out what time frame or theme for the first event. Hopefully the ball will roll after that. Thanks! Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 18:32:31 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PMWUeo007499 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:32:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PMW8aA089588 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:32:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PMW5jM004516; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:32:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP08.BAY0.HOTMAIL.COM (bay0-smtp08.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.159]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PMW1vg004465 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:32:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP08.BAY0.HOTMAIL.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:31:55 -0700 Message-ID: <4337256B.6070304@msn.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:32:11 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? References: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Sep 2005 22:31:55.0965 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF4FBED0:01C5C220] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Whoooops...way out of my time period. I am glad though that this made me pull out my other POF... Is the shape which you refer to as eliptical truely an oval from front to back? The wedding dress looks much more round. I kind of figured those round ones you can buy would be pretty close to the right shape. What would you have to do in your mind to make them correct? Sg Who is curious because several of us are thinking about moving up a few centuries in costuming! Sg > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 19:14:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PNDxUk007907 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:14:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PNDPL4092745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PNDMXY021375; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PNDHj4021325 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C93ABDD5 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050925155917.037ab330@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:59:46 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:46 AM 9/24/2005, you wrote: >I thought people might be interested in the following links. Wow, thanks for sharing that visual feast. I've been inspired by a few of the items. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 19:14:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PNE1YZ007910 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:14:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PNDPxB092746 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PNDNXa021380; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PNDHuu021324 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26913BDD4 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050925152854.037babc8@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:38:38 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? In-Reply-To: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> References: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 10:55 PM 9/23/2005, you wrote: >So in short has anybody had success in using a readymade hoop? > As a student I'm long on time and short on cash so >making modifications is not something I'm concerned about, but buying >something cheap that's going need replacing after five minutes is false >economy. >thanks >Elizabeth I have seen these very hoopskirts about the same price or more used by many of the ren-faire people I've been involved with, and seen them in the LA garment district as well. They don't hold up very well over time. If your skirts are the least bit heavy (velvets or brocades), they droop. They are better for light wedding dresses, or for a one-day event. The boning is thin, often plastic, and not worthy unless you don't mind replacing them every so often (that throw-away "consumer" society mindset that I personally am disliking more and more, but that's me.) And as you may have noticed, the whole page of them have pretty much the same shape to them. Yet different time frames have different "looks" to the hoops worn for that time. You could spend your time adjusting them to fit the proper look, but in that case, make your hoops from scratch if possible. One suggestion for finding cheap metal hoopsteel is from thrift stores. My first one was from a few different hoops I found from a couple of thrift stores that I cobbled together into a small cage crinoline (Hunnisett pattern) and it cost me under $10. for everything I needed. The thing lasted a few years and now is being replaced with high quality coated steel from Farthingales.on.ca now that I have the money for better quality stuff. Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 19:14:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8PNEEKs007913 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:14:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8PNDwXa092830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PNDwgg021618; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shadow.csufresno.edu (relay-1.csufresno.edu [129.8.57.22]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8PNDHCK021323 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:13:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kimiko@kimiko1.com) Received: from earthlink.kimiko1.com (cvip-dsl-204-239.cvip.net [129.8.204.239]) by shadow.csufresno.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B7ABDD3 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 16:13:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050925151702.037bbc50@64.87.54.245> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:24:42 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? In-Reply-To: <092220051826.29768.4332F772000DE87000007448220922992708090 70E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> References: <092220051826.29768.4332F772000DE8700000744822092299270809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:26 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >Or, if not, if there's a group that focuses on the Irish/Celtic/Welsh (I >think they are all different and distinct groups) history, language and >costuming, I'd also love to know about them, too. > >Elena/Gia I don't know about your area, but in my area we have a local Celtic Society that I used to be semi-involved with. We used to do Scottish country dancing and we often were asked to either dance at Scottish caellies (sp?)), work the local Highland games, or dance with the Irish dance groups on St. Paddy's day, or give talks on costumes of the 16th c. Irish & Scots. They also tried to promote Breton, Welsh, and Cornish history as well, although those weren't as "popular". They are still around and are involved with a new Irish pub we have in town. Perhaps you can find something similar that may be associated with a pub in your area, or maybe listed in your news paper events page. And if you do, please let me know as well. My best friend and former dance mistress lives and works in your area, and she's commented that she hasn't found much to do up there like she did around here for re-enactment or even dancing opportunities. She even sent me her old box of faire stuff because she didn't know what else to do with them (that almost broke my heart for all the fond memories we had.) Kimiko _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 21:58:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8Q1wcLX009604 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:58:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8Q1vkOn006216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:57:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q1vcVd085462; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:57:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net (rwcrmhc11.comcast.net [204.127.198.35]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q1vZ6Q085406 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:57:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.116 ([204.127.197.116]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2005092601572901300agvtqe>; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 01:57:29 +0000 Received: from [67.183.89.48] by 204.127.197.116; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 01:57:27 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] pockets (Fwd: Artssciences Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 01:57:27 +0000 Message-Id: <092620050157.25194.43375587000A20500000626A22007348300809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25194_1127699847_0" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.86.2/1102/Sun Sep 25 08:04:56 2005 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25194_1127699847_0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Um...I guess there's another Gia on this list besides me! I guess I'll have to make sure my sig line stays Elena/Gia! -------------- Original message -------------- > > Please send your responses directly to Gia who requested this information. > Thank you. > Nancy > > > From: "Jennifer Potts" > Subject: [SCA-AS] Pockets in period > To: > Message-ID: > <20050918174321.HGDM6852.priv-edtnes57.telusplanet.net@jencodivvz309u> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have been seeing "pockets" for women on a lot of the recreationist sites. > Does anyone know of any documentation for the use of these in Venice during > the 16th century? > > Gia > > > --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25194_1127699847_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_25194_1127699847_0-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 22:01:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8Q21Fqi009632 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:01:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8Q20qAf006373 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:00:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q20ojJ086807; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:00:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q20mCm086738 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:00:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from koid.gath@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m7so833909nzf for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:00:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:x-mailer:date:to:from:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; b=kZYgUq6rgBCVVCagz0lOMr0H42G41l4Q3eVJ8dgbIi6g3s5uZ05ovvUFrMjqZ365sVjGEwZdCwQqi2H8NHWdVYr5hpPnEBqY61TvA+DCCIu8G22zUfdwDKpV7TXHoJu2NtDHHB+3GQTq8bixWjbshBszgYBWzz3hDMApQYeoecQ= Received: by 10.36.41.3 with SMTP id o3mr1012350nzo; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from koid-gath.gmail.com ( [203.49.190.22]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id c1sm3068311nzd.2005.09.25.19.00.39; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050926115906.01cc93b8@pop.gmail.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:00:43 +1000 To: Historical Costume From: koid gath Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050925224845.01d3d6e8@127.0.0.1> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050925224845.01d3d6e8@127.0.0.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Thank you both for the clarification. I have had little chance to research Georgian and Regency so only have a vague sense of whats what. Sharon >>[ >>1718-1746? No way! This makes no sense at all in the early 1700s! A >>century later, maybe. Look at her diadem, the teardrop pearls, the >>bracelets on her upper arms, the white and gold gathered underdress with >>red overdress (typical Regency colours), the short, curly hair and the >>high waistline! No way it's anything other than, oh... 1800-1810 maybe? > > >The artist is said to be a follower of Elizabeth Vigee-Lebrun who was >painting in the late 18th and early 19th century, which confirms the >painting date as being early 19th century in all likelihood. > >Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 22:08:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8Q28iH7009679 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:08:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8Q28IwR006929 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q28It2089764; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:08:18 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net (smtp2.suscom.net [64.78.83.231]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q28EsD089718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:08:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (smtp2.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA0A1CDF6B for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:57:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp2.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2 [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with SMTP id 10520-10 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp2.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A94CE1CDD7A for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:57:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019c01c5c23f$1c53a860$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com><43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> <433717D1.3000903@paradise.net.nz><43371AC2.8000505@lavoltapress.com><43371BFF.1060803@paradise.net.nz> <43371F08.50600@lavoltapress.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:07:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines . I adore ponchos, not the classic diamond "ethnic" ones so > much, but the retangular-across ones and the ones with interesting drapes; > especially knitted and crocheted ones. My best buy EVER from a thrift store was a poncho. It was red and blue marled sweater knit, with a deep navy cowl neck and long navy fringe, and it came to my knees. It was perfect for spring and fall, and I adored it. I wore it to death. If I ever found another, I would snatch it up in an instant. I paid all of $7.50, and it was the most expensive thing I ever bought at that store. (This was the same store where I bought my wool cloak for $5.00) Dianne _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 23:18:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8Q3I0M2010553 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 23:18:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8Q3HFAa012611 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:17:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q3HAL2018181; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:17:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.tpgi.com.au (mail8.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.46]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q3H691018154 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:17:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ewalpole@tpg.com.au) Received: from e9q5h8 (220-245-222-217-act-pppoe.tpgi.com.au [220.245.222.217]) by mail8.tpgi.com.au (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j8Q3H4Id004670 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:17:05 +1000 Message-ID: <007001c5c248$a3d36060$d9def5dc@e9q5h8> From: "Elizabeth Walpole" To: "Historical Costume" References: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:16:07 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? > Whoooops...way out of my time period. I am glad though that this made > me pull out my other POF... Is the shape which you refer to as > eliptical truely an oval from front to back? The wedding dress looks > much more round. I kind of figured those round ones you can buy would > be pretty close to the right shape. What would you have to do in your > mind to make them correct? > > Sg > > Who is curious because several of us are thinking about moving up a few > centuries in costuming! > > Sg > Well I don't know if the original was worn over an oval hoop, it does look round but it looks to me like maybe there was a little more fullness at the back, especially at the top. http://snipurl.com/hxvp is an example of the appearance of extra fullness at the back (although that could be due to the way her shawl is draped, I'm not sure) and although this fashion plate is from 1852 I don't think it's too unreasonable to think maybe one could do something similar for the second half of that decade. If I did buy one of these hoops I would have at least brought in the bottom hoops so it was more of a dome shape and less of a cone shape (see http://snipurl.com/hxve for an example of what a dress looks like worn over one of these, it looks more like a caricature lampooning hoopskirts than something you'd expect to see in real life). I was also planning to reduce the overall size so the bottom hoop was somewhere between 110-120" circumference (I've been told on another of my lists that the diameter of most hoops was 40-60% of the wearer's height) Elizabeth -------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra Australia ewalpole[at]tpg.com.au http://au.geocities.com/e_walpole/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sun Sep 25 23:37:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8Q3bGWK010711 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 23:37:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8Q3as3l014110 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:36:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q3aqAV025641; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:36:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from b.mail.sonic.net (b.mail.sonic.net [64.142.19.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q3anZV025617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:36:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-180.sonic.net [209.148.113.180]) (authenticated bits=0) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q3ait0031576 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:36:45 -0700 Message-ID: <43376CCD.1020206@lavoltapress.com> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:36:45 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <92.2fefb8d8.3066cac0@aol.com><43358069.1050504@lavoltapress.com> <43370B89.5070303@paradise.net.nz> <43370FDC.30102@lavoltapress.com> <433717D1.3000903@paradise.net.nz><43371AC2.8000505@lavoltapress.com><43371BFF.1060803@paradise.net.nz> <43371F08.50600@lavoltapress.com> <019c01c5c23f$1c53a860$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> In-Reply-To: <019c01c5c23f$1c53a860$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO eBay always has lots of vintage sweaters and ponchos for sale. . . . Fran Dianne & Greg Stucki wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lavolta Press" > > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 6:04 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines > > > . I adore ponchos, not the classic diamond "ethnic" ones so > >> much, but the retangular-across ones and the ones with interesting >> drapes; especially knitted and crocheted ones. > > > > My best buy EVER from a thrift store was a poncho. It was red and blue > marled sweater knit, with a deep navy cowl neck and long navy fringe, > and it came to my knees. It was perfect for spring and fall, and I > adored it. I wore it to death. If I ever found another, I would snatch > it up in an instant. I paid all of $7.50, and it was the most > expensive thing I ever bought at that store. (This was the same store > where I bought my wool cloak for $5.00) > > Dianne > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 02:14:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8Q6E9nP015490 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 02:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8Q6CkUA025570 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:12:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q6Ccqt084152; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:12:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8Q6CYN9084128 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:12:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EJmE40Tn6-0003wc; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 02:12:32 -0400 Message-ID: <008a01c5c261$48102100$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1a8.3fbe6fbd.30678869@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 02:12:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I subscribe to Vogue, "W", Bazaar, and Entertainment Weekly (it covers a lot of star fashions). For the past year Vogue has been running a section with photos on Hollywood and vintage fashions. Vogue or Bazaar points out when someone is wearing vintage and puts the designer's in the caption. I can't recall which one of these magazine has a monthly article by Karl Lagerfeld, but it is generally interesting. I enjoy the ads in these magazines, except the perfume one with the samples. They get ripped out immediately. The designer ads are very creative, especially Sept. issue of Vogue... my daughter-in-law and I figured out that one ad was a mirror effect in Photoshop or another image software. I do subscribe to Women's Wear Daily (WWD) online. I enjoy the industry trade news. Vogue is also good about running articles about museum exhibits, photos of the guests attending the exhibit's opening, and articles about film costumes. Their lead article is always in the last section of the magazine. I do have a complaint about one photoshoot of Demi Moore that was last month's issue in one of these magazine... she was air brushed way too much. I also study the ads for their layout and design. I have been collecting Vogue since the 1970s, "W" magazine since 1995, and EW since 2000. Bazaar I just started collecting this past year. If you run a business, a lot of magazines will offer you subscription for $5-8 a year's subscription. I think they are getting my business name and address from the county where my business license is registered. I subscribe to several magazines this way or via using my airline frequent flyer points. Although most people do not think of fashion but I have issues of National Geographic from the 1960s-2000. I collect them for international cultural fashions. The magazines are also an inspiration resource for costumes, past, present, and future. The issues of the Bayeaux Tapestry and the Tut exhibit in the 1970s are like gold to me! For those wanting to collect this magazine, your Library is a wonderful way to pick them up cheap. Our local library has a Friends of the Library section, where you can purchase old magazines for a quarter each. I have stopped getting issue of the magazine because we have run out of space to put them. I do subscribe to Smithsonian magazine... That's how I found out about the King Tut exhibit and reserved my advance tickets for the 2007 exhibit in PA. BTW, for those people wanting to go to one of the Tut exhibits, you can reserve tickets online... all the future exhibits are over 50% booked. They will reserve the tickets and you have to pay the day before the exhibit opens in the location you plan to attend. The exhibit is in Jacksonville, Florida either now or in a month or so. I love Town and Country magazine but their subscription rate is too expensive for me. Their fashions are so-o-o classy. I read T&C and Architectural Digest whenever I go to my doctor's office. A long time ago, I found a website, where you can receive free fashion catalogs from various companies. I have been receiving the catalogs for years. I love to look at the catalogs for the color themes for that season. I have fun seeing what new color names have come out. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 06:07:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QA7d9q001364 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QA6nCi039414 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:06:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QA6i4b070138; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:06:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QA6e6v070070 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:06:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8QA6XZ20363.; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:06:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:06:33 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:06:23 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] A New Programme to watch out for - "Elizabeth" Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8QA7d9q001364 Status: RO Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> suzi@suziclarke.co.uk 21/09/2005 18:03 >>> At 17:30 21/09/2005, you wrote: >Suzi Clarke wrote: >The learning and teaching of history in Britain is getting worse and >worse Yes - I was amazed on Saturday when watching the TV quiz "Who wants to be a millionaire". Despite all the recent programmes about Henry VIII, very few people knew "which wife he married after seeing a flattering portrait of her by Holbein". I've known that story since I was a schoolgirl! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 06:12:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QACZun003057 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:12:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QACCZg039763 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:12:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QACBbr072102; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:12:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QAC7lF072048 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:12:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8QAC1Z20843.; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:12:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:12:01 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:11:42 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: RE: [h-cost] Dressing Santa Claus Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8QACZun003057 Status: RO All I can contribute to this is that in my childhood in the UK in the 1950s, Father Christmas/Santa Claus was sometimes portrayed in a long hooded robe (red and fur-trimmed) rather than jacket and trousers. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 06:15:28 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QAFQEF004446 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:15:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QAEgsE039880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:14:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QAEgtp072980; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:14:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QAEcOm072897 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:14:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8QAEWZ21047.; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:14:32 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:14:32 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:14:21 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: [h-cost] Re: jeans Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8QAFQEF004446 Status: RO I find it hard to find trousers that aren't what is now called "bootcut" these days. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> gailscott@eos.net 23/09/2005 21:34 >>> Julie wrote: Remember bell bottoms? A co-worker of mine swears that they are back, but I can't find any. I was at the Chicago Gap store last week, and they certainly didn't have any there. Darn. I love bellbottoms! Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 08:27:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QCQx3Z014903 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:26:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QCPgwU064274 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:25:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QCPbQK024867; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:25:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.194]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QCPYg9024813 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:25:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id r21so1284313wxc for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:25:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=Lm02cNwf5NJncS3RJrUG0xzp/3Qob3cMT1nNl224PmxduNRbDhWuuDveKwfaKLtATlLulyspmXw5ylZOzpVZjWXwwBUXLhXffHxlFN5wRh1HDbrB6nyR8j9LhR8cp6FoslQ3JUSvTz8LrlyQncJe/GioTkxUecIWYoXdhRtl0Ws= Received: by 10.70.111.9 with SMTP id j9mr2200908wxc; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.73.7 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1905092605256ae5248e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:25:29 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@net.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8QCPYg9024813 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Current fashion magazines X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't subscribe to fashion magazines and seldom buy them (I find they end up taking space long after I'm interested in them), but when I do it's either something for inspiration (Vogue and similar that show "couture" or various subcultural/music oriented fashion magazines) or something that just shows me what's in the stores, like Lucky or Shop. The latter type tends to suck all creativity out of fashion because a lot of it just shows you what's in the stores and various price points, but sometimes that's exactly what I want - a list of, say, blazers with pictures detailing where it is and how much it costs saves me a lot of time I could waste trolling the local shopping mall not finding anything I like/anything I can afford! Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 09:59:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QDxNpi016265 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:59:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QDwCqX070980 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QDw8Pv070661; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:58:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8QDw1Fi070514 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:58:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sismith42@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 89805 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Sep 2005 13:57:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ipJS2xOnVMLxJVeujPDNkaI0lXaNLJ7XhLjoLkFkH2EvJnWe8spOVRvLNAFTHZFnoPL4L+/rUEDMStZpv2MfCiOLEp25FJTSOuiR5qhl+/2thxa+UQCciFDBfVIBw2GEpBI67jv5snsYMAMjPAIonDWaIVXmlmCwAdhoplMs08I= ; Message-ID: <20050926135756.89803.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [82.41.225.123] by web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:57:56 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:57:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephanie Smith To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509251234.j8PCY2DX055917@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Minitures at the Scottish National Portrait Gallery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Joan Jurancich [joanmj@surewest.net] saw this on Message: If anyone can get to the Scottish National Portrait Gallery to see this exhibit, please let us know about it. Thanks. Nifty-- thanks for the heads-up, Joan. My husband & I have been meaning to head over there anyway... I will report back. Was there anything specific you wanted to know about it? Any time period or place to keep an eye out for? Stephanie in Edinburgh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 10:32:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QEWK0U016931 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QEVq6O074022 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:31:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QEVn29091181; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:31:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QEVjHO091077 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:31:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:31:39 -0700 Message-ID: <4338065C.2050406@msn.com> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:31:56 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] readymade hoops, are they worth it? References: <004301c5c0cc$a3d60220$b6d6f5dc@e9q5h8> <007001c5c248$a3d36060$d9def5dc@e9q5h8> In-Reply-To: <007001c5c248$a3d36060$d9def5dc@e9q5h8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2005 14:31:39.0494 (UTC) FILETIME=[01C4F860:01C5C2A7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yeah, I'd have to agree with Kimiko. You'd probably be better off making your own. Funny, even to my inexperienced eye those shapes on the dresses for sale on ebay look wrong. Surely for this period there are patterns for the hoop skirts? Have you looked at buying a roll of the boning? Is it where you live that makes shipping so expensive? I buy most of my stuff from Greenberg and Hammer, but their stinkin' store isn't working right now. I do see it online for about $18 a roll (12 yards). Sg _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 10:46:36 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QEkZpo017123 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:46:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QEk1Ln075359 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:46:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QEjxFM001268; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:45:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QEjtoA001108 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:45:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:45:50 -0700 Message-ID: <433809AF.4060301@msn.com> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:46:07 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2005 14:45:50.0229 (UTC) FILETIME=[FCD8D450:01C5C2A8] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Anyone know what that is drooping in the front part of her dress? > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 10:57:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QEvhNE017362 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:57:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QEv7oA076384 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:57:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QEv3Yw008935; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:57:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8QEv06r008878 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:57:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 12894 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2005 07:56:53 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 12844, pid: 12845, t: 8.2081s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:34/d:1095 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2005 07:56:44 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050926075158.02590c40@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:56:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Miniatures at the Scottish National Portrait Gallery In-Reply-To: <20050926135756.89803.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200509251234.j8PCY2DX055917@net.indra.com> <20050926135756.89803.qmail@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO According to the article (no pictures, darn it!), there is a pair of miniatures of Elizabeth I and Lord Leicester that have not been published anywhere. They are thought to be by Hilliard. Please let us know if there is a catalog available (and since I am across the pond, if it is available for online ordering). Any 16th century miniatures would be of interest to me. I just wish I could visit the exhibit in person... Joan At 06:57 AM 9/26/2005, you wrote: >Joan Jurancich [joanmj@surewest.net] saw this on > >Message: If anyone can get to the Scottish National >Portrait Gallery to see this exhibit, please let us >know about it. >Thanks. > >Nifty-- thanks for the heads-up, Joan. My husband & I >have been meaning to head over there anyway... I will >report back. Was there anything specific you wanted >to know about it? Any time period or place to keep an >eye out for? > >Stephanie in Edinburgh > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 13:37:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QHbpnF019272 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:37:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QHanHo096722 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:36:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QHagRm045250; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:36:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.164]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8QHaYxa045099 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:36:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from corbiegirl@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 83626 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Sep 2005 17:36:28 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ymOVI+nERVD6jh4JehLElQlm5kMhHVcRigjT9PuZeaD3oQkUSAmAwQ1acg/+9BIYmN10s5D7e9lWNHRtO0xXH1BgUqjXnJrm6ALxld7zOkpQV0wMXqX8A4ozXlIvtr2zOmlAzOY39eoVh6X9Mm/wKurL+R1Bn4BGqRcRJEddEJE= ; Message-ID: <20050926173628.83624.qmail@web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [205.153.36.171] by web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:36:28 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:36:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509252233.j8PMWDqa004566@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] WWI French women's clothes? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO A friend is thinking of putting together a WWI event (early war, I think), and suggested that I could come along and do some sort of French countrywoman impression. Sounds like fun, but I need more info on what to wear. I have plenty of "fashion" books that show what Parisians might have been wearing, and it's easy enough to find traditional French festival costumes online, but what was the common "peasant" woman wearing? Any suggestions as to where to start looking? Thanks, Mara --------------------- http://www.knittingobsession.com - modern knitting stuff http://www.knittingobsession.blogspot.com http://www.marariley.net - 18th century research and knitting patterns --------------------- Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. - Voltaire _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 16:56:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QKuPw1022228 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:56:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QKtEgJ028586 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:55:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QKt6Xg011797; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:55:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from p03m105.mxlogic.net (p03m105.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QKt3oQ011734 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:55:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [199.184.176.8] by p03m105.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.12.2-02) with SMTP id 92068334.2308246448.196076.p03m105.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexbh01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:54:43 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:54:42 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: What are These? Thread-Index: AcXC3ISLvCcF9ApdRfWCDex50pejzA== From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2005 20:54:43.0047 (UTC) FILETIME=[8508D770:01C5C2DC] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005092001)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [199.184.176.8] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] What are These? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8QKuPw1022228 Status: RO Hello! If I may ask the aid of this august assembly? The seventh image down on this page http://www.wga.hu/index1.html has a woman with what looks like huge pearls dangling from her bodice, but I'm not too certain of what I'm seeing. I'm rather taken with the dress, and am considering re-creating it. Any advice on what those things are, would be much appreciated! Kate McClure aka StitchWitch Beads? What beads . . . ? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 17:03:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QL30jM022485 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:03:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QL21Z8029594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:02:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QL1tP0017407; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:01:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kline.thibault.org (komarr.thibault.org [66.92.75.137]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QL1JtX017040 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:01:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cvirtue+keyword+histcostume.aa1b43@thibault.org) Received: from kline-station.local.thibault.org (kline-station.local.thibault.org [127.0.0.1]) by kline.thibault.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j8QKtOjf012174 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:55:24 -0400 Received: from thibault.org (cetaganda.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.21]) by kline-station.local.thibault.org (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:55:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4338619E.1080604@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:01:18 -0400 Organization: Medieval Hats: http://www.virtue.to User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What are These? References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bup> In-Reply-To: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Cynthia Virtue X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.78 (Hill Gail) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO McClure, Kate wrote: > The seventh image down on this page http://www.wga.hu/index1.html -- that's the frame location, not the image you want us to look at. Can you figure out the URL of the actual image? cv _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 17:09:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QL9g0X022675 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QL9ALj030574 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:09:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QL8xEf023226; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:09:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from audi.websitewelcome.com (audi.websitewelcome.com [67.19.210.130]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QL8klj022970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:08:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from sfarmer@goldsword.com) Received: from cpanel by audi.websitewelcome.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EK0D3-0000lu-Tp; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:08:25 -0500 Received: from 127.0.0.1 ([127.0.0.1]) by www.goldsword.com (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:08:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20050926160825.w01t1o2z8oowok8w@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:08:25 -0500 From: "Susan B. Farmer" To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] What are These? References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bup> <4338619E.1080604@thibault.org> In-Reply-To: <4338619E.1080604@thibault.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.3) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - audi.websitewelcome.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - indra.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32001 32001] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - goldsword.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Quoting Cynthia Virtue : > McClure, Kate wrote: > >> The seventh image down on this page http://www.wga.hu/index1.html > > -- that's the frame location, not the image you want us to look at. > Can you figure out the URL of the actual image? You can right-click and select "this frame->show only this frame" and get a URL -- or just tell us the artist and the name of the painting! JErusha ----- Susan Farmer sfarmer@goldsword.com University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 17:12:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QLC7EO022745 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:12:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QLB1cQ030969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:11:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QL6oW5021383; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:07:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8QL5iIx020460 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:06:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 12216 invoked from network); 26 Sep 2005 14:05:31 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 12177, pid: 12189, t: 3.7328s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:34/d:1102 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 26 Sep 2005 14:05:28 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050926140420.025965f0@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:05:27 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] What are These? In-Reply-To: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bu p> References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bup> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:54 PM 9/26/2005, you wrote: >Hello! > >If I may ask the aid of this august assembly? > >The seventh image down on this page http://www.wga.hu/index1.html has a >woman with what looks like huge pearls dangling from her bodice, but I'm >not too certain of what I'm seeing. I'm rather taken with the dress, >and am considering re-creating it. Any advice on what those things are, >would be much appreciated! > >Kate McClure >aka StitchWitch > >Beads? What beads . . . ? Unfortunately, the URL is just an index page. In order to find the actual picture, we'll need more information. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 17:12:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QLCFXe022755 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:12:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QLBrJO031104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:11:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QLBlLl025629; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:11:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QLBNVe025251 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:11:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=DGBPgQKsvOPGcAWfzRhJlBSLQUL1dc9u1jxMehPzHYJuvmhTOVAuuEmvxHuwpJSa; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.57.59] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EK0Ft-000130-Fh for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:11:22 -0400 Message-ID: <02b201c5c2de$d68bedb0$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bup> <4338619E.1080604@thibault.org> Subject: Re: [h-cost] What are These? Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:11:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0bd96378006114f9fa72cc8fe0b2709189350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.59 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > McClure, Kate wrote: > >> The seventh image down on this page http://www.wga.hu/index1.html > > -- that's the frame location, not the image you want us to look at. Can > you figure out the URL of the actual image? The easiest way is to give the name of the artist, and we can go directly to him/her from the index page. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 17:49:51 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QLno5o023372 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QLnJrv035925 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:49:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QLn24V055214; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:49:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QLmpXg055090 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:48:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=ImS/o8aqJ5oDgAT6iumAPenmTp3G/tTDsjcN3DhuIjNVpndDqc8Y4qNgD0V7aLZl; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.57.59] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EK0Qa-0002Up-L9 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:22:25 -0400 Message-ID: <02e201c5c2e0$61c96aa0$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F928@denpexmb01-dex-bup><4338619E.1080604@thibault.org> <20050926160825.w01t1o2z8oowok8w@www.goldsword.com> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:22:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b19865754edf97ff1141387e595e68c0b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.59 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A previous question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My turn- Earlier this year, there was a question about a small rectangular object hanging from the belt of a male saint, I think. Can anyone point me to a more specific reference? Thanks, -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 19:03:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QN3mf1024446 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:03:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QN3B0r044241 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:03:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QN32Wc008392; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:03:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav21.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.93]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QFQFg6032264 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:26:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:26:08 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV21.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:26:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:20:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Sep 2005 15:26:08.0038 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DF93460:01C5C2AE] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" > Anyone know what that is drooping in the front part of her dress? Uh, sorry, which image are you asking a question about? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 19:04:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QN4WkU024474 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:04:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QN3jrs044368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:03:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QN3jPN008854; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:03:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QHK5rJ030451 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:20:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28544 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:20:03 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:19:06 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines Thread-Index: AcXBFCQWDGdvDzMLSKqT+1Cwuq/bkgBqRZPA From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8QHK5rJ030451 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I probably read Vogue and Harper's Bazaar most. I've finally learned not to save the whole magazine, just rip out and save those inspiration pages only for my doll dressing, plus anything from upcoming movies, costuming exhibitions(to check for possible catalog/book publications)as I had about six huge boxes of doll-related and fashion magazines over the last ten years. The magazine I miss most is "Victoria" which stopped publishing a few years' ago. I reluctantly recycled my copies, except for a couple of issues--when I did a long-overdue clean out of books and mags several weeks ago. Costuming, history and some other books(still about seven shelves/3 bookcases full)remain as I need the space for fabric, notions and other crafting. Will finally get to some of it this winter as heating costs will keep me home more along with much quieter(so far)tenants in the apartment above mine! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 19:05:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QN5KPo024494 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QN4sdC044482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:04:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QN4sxm009518; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:04:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail11.mdx.safepages.com (mail11.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QIjNTL002670 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:46:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id 7711CA082E; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:59:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.244.126.9.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.244.126.9]) by mail11.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6E6BAA0663 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:59:38 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <05e701c5c2ca$b536b190$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050926173628.83624.qmail@web31001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] WWI French women's clothes? Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:47:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mara Riley" >A friend is thinking of putting together a WWI event (early war, I > think), and suggested that I could come along and do some sort of > French countrywoman impression. Having recently gone on a long drawn out image search for WWI-era-but-not-war-related posters & ad material, I can tell you that the bildindex ( http://www.bildindex.de ) has a ton of images of all sorts from that era, much of it from France. I don't know if you're familiar with the site or if you speak German; if not, here's the search I'd try: Go to "Suche"; at the top, select the middle choice ("illustrierten") and type in the beginning and ending dates. Below that, there are 3 columns; go to the last one, where you see "ikon. Kontext". In that blank, type in "mensch" or select it from the pop up box. Skip down a couple of blanks, and beside "Ort/Region" type in or select "France". Hit "Suche starten" and you'll get a little readout telling you how many results fit your search parameters. From here, you can either view the results ("galerie") or you can narrow the search parameters. I just did the above search for 1914-1918, and got 26 results; all were lithographs or engravings, but a couple looked like they might be helpful to you. I also tried a search without specifying "mensch" (people), and got even more handy-looking images. When you're looking at an image, click "vergrößern" to enlarge (if available) and "Dokument" to see more info about the image. Granted, lithos may not be the best place for fashion details, but with some cross-referencing you could certainly put together an impression. -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 19:32:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8QNW8Pr024787 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:32:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8QNVbia047214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:31:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QNVZ0l026697; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:31:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.eos.net (mail.eos.net [205.133.149.17]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8QNVRPi026616 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:31:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from gailscott@eos.net) Received: from [205.133.149.157] (pm5-157.eos.net [205.133.149.157]) by mail.eos.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j8QNVPdo018842 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:31:26 -0400 (EDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:21:31 -0400 From: Gail & Scott Finke To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200509262304.j8QN47FU009085@net.indra.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: current fashions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I heard a bit on the radio today about a web site for a "fantasy fashion league," like "fantasy football" and "fantasy baseball," but for fashion fans. It's way too big for my dial-up connection, but it sounded funny. There's a fee, and I missed what the "teams" actually do, but they seem to be competing some way. Anyway, I thought Penny and some of you fashion fans would enjoy it! www.fantasyfashionleague.com Gail Finke _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 20:33:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R0XsMT025421 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:33:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R0X5hm052038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:33:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R0X1kr057934; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:33:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R0WvkG057882 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:32:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11610 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:56:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:55:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] A previous question In-Reply-To: <02e201c5c2e0$61c96aa0$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on net.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Helen Pinto wrote: > My turn- > Earlier this year, there was a question about a small rectangular object > hanging from the belt of a male saint, I think. Can anyone point me to a > more specific reference? Do you mean this? http://www.christophersbookroom.com/cc/nazareth/bagatti/colfigs/bagatti-pl43-4.jpg Close-up of two objects hanging from the belt on a sculpture of St. Peter. The one on the right is probably a knife sheath. The heart-shaped object hanging from a cord is a mystery. We discussed this in January if you want to look up the thread. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 23:13:12 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R3DB4J026908 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:13:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R3CPkc067188 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:12:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3CMKP035519; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:12:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com [66.163.179.151]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8R3CID2035450 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:12:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kahlara@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 30106 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Sep 2005 03:12:13 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Q4EpuyQI+bZxvFPCTeCB0Ju3xdac5XugWDSwwkb5oXIJL7K5tcxbob/9x8eCtPLjzLlidwjPhgFw7JauonTFATebwVgUCnyOSbIzbIc+EmXkPdHeqG7V4a4mVdxpa2nYV9xErMOvnUdk9pXlmHqRCvR/B6r7sGLXHXr8/9fsMYQ= ; Message-ID: <20050927031213.30104.qmail@web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.112.53.209] by web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:12:13 PDT Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:12:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Kahlara Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why renaissance... To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <200509261226.j8QCQ87Z025146@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Another possibility for finding like minded people, if you are at all into traditional or folk dancing you might check out some of those groups as well. I used to contra dance (old country dancing) quite frequently and met people from several groups, including a Civil War re-enactment group and a Scottish country dancing group that does demonstrations at the local Highland games. I also met several people that were into Irish step dancing and other Celtic interests at a weekend long dance. Many other dance groups and some other types of groups would also leave (or bring) flyers and brochures for their events at our dances. I am sure that each area and group is different, but it seemed to me that contra dancing draws quite a cross section of folks who had other areas of historical interests as well. If you don't know what Contra Dance is... http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/ and a list of links to Contra Dance groups from all over the world. http://www.contradancelinks.com/ Annette M ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:24:42 -0700 From: Kimiko Small Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why renaissance and not 18th century? At 11:26 AM 9/22/2005, you wrote: >Or, if not, if there's a group that focuses on the Irish/Celtic/Welsh (I >think they are all different and distinct groups) history, language and >costuming, I'd also love to know about them, too. > >Elena/Gia I don't know about your area, but in my area we have a local Celtic Society that I used to be semi-involved with. We used to do Scottish country dancing and we often were asked to either dance at Scottish caellies (sp?)), work the local Highland games, or dance with the Irish dance groups on St. Paddy's day, or give talks on costumes of the 16th c. Irish & Scots. They also tried to promote Breton, Welsh, and Cornish history as well, although those weren't as "popular". They are still around and are involved with a new Irish pub we have in town. Perhaps you can find something similar that may be associated with a pub in your area, or maybe listed in your news paper events page. And if you do, please let me know as well. My best friend and former dance mistress lives and works in your area, and she's commented that she hasn't found much to do up there like she did around here for re-enactment or even dancing opportunities. She even sent me her old box of faire stuff because she didn't know what else to do with them (that almost broke my heart for all the fond memories we had.) Kimiko ------------------------------ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 23:17:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R3H5G2026973 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:17:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R3GfGQ067676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:16:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3Gee7037603; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:16:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3GbGw037577 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:16:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0346.floodcity.net ([198.93.212.92]:3964 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1EK5xP-0004y4-Jx for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:16:40 -0400 Message-ID: <4338B992.1030301@floodcity.net> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:16:34 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines- Victoria References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Abel, Cynthia wrote: > > I probably read Vogue and Harper's Bazaar most. I've finally learned not > to save the whole magazine, just rip out and save those inspiration > pages only for my doll dressing, plus anything from upcoming movies, > costuming exhibitions(to check for possible catalog/book publications)as > I had about six huge boxes of doll-related and fashion magazines over > the last ten years. > > The magazine I miss most is "Victoria" which stopped publishing a few > years' ago. I reluctantly recycled my copies, except for a couple of > issues--when I did a long-overdue clean out of books and mags several > weeks ago. Costuming, history and some other books(still about seven > shelves/3 bookcases full)remain as I need the space for fabric, notions > and other crafting. Will finally get to some of it this winter as > heating costs will keep me home more along with much quieter(so > far)tenants in the apartment above mine! > > Oh you should never recycle Victoria, there are so many people looking for missing issues. why didn't you post that you had them, I never read it and would have enjoyed having them to read. Mourn, Mourn, mourn. Kitty _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 23:24:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R3Nxap027004 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:24:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R3NatE068432 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3NZS6040569; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:23:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ihug-mail.icp-qv1-irony2.iinet.net.au (mail-iinet.icp-qv1-irony2.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.196] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3NVX0040540 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:23:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-3-153.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) ([203.173.3.153]) by ihug-mail.icp-qv1-irony2.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 27 Sep 2005 11:23:28 +0800 Message-ID: <4338BD0A.1080708@earthlydelights.com.au> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:31:22 +1000 From: A & J Garden Organization: Earthly Delights User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010605020108070609020904" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010605020108070609020904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm trying to sort out the differences between the following costuming terms: Directoire, Empire, Regency, Romantic. Have I got them in the right order and are they the right terms - or is one simply another term coined in another country? And how do we avoid all the confusion I encounter whenever I visit another website I read a different story about dates?I realise there will always be a slight confusion about when each period starts and finishes and why, but I'd love to try to simplify matters. One area I'm not sure of - I used to think Empire and Romantic were the same period and came after Regency - but some sites list empire as coming before Regency. Cheers4now, Aylwen --------------010605020108070609020904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------010605020108070609020904-- From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 23:30:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R3UNLT027068 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:30:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R3Tq0K068996 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:29:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3TpgU043388; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:29:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [217.160.230.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3TmiE043364 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:29:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from penny@costumegallery.com) Received: from pcp0010981916pcs.centrl01.va.comcast.net [68.57.35.138] (helo=Penny) by mrelay.perfora.net with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKoyl-1EK6A70G72-0002Pl; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:29:47 -0400 Message-ID: <008c01c5c313$b73584a0$6400a8c0@Penny> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4338B992.1030301@floodcity.net> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines- Victoria Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:29:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Provags-ID: perfora.net abuse@perfora.net login:3d9d98f5735ac15b24f809ddf014658e X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I also collected Victoria. I loved their format. So sad it stopped publishing. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Mon Sep 26 23:57:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R3vfRl027326 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:57:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R3vKLQ071377 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:57:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3vH62056654; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:57:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from a.mail.sonic.net (a.mail.sonic.net [64.142.16.245]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3vD35056622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:57:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fran@lavoltapress.com) Received: from lavoltapress.com (dial-209-148-113-177.sonic.net [209.148.113.177]) (authenticated bits=0) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R3vBUN001218 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:12 -0700 Message-ID: <4338C31A.5070702@lavoltapress.com> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why renaissance... References: <20050927031213.30104.qmail@web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20050927031213.30104.qmail@web35612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO English country dance is an even better place to meet people with historical interests. There are many branches of the Country Dance and Song Society in the US. Their website is: http://www.cdss.org/ Despite being a historically inauthentic revival, English country dance is easy, fun, full of friendly people, and many places have excellent live musicians playing. I think the SCA uses English country dance a lot at gatherings, not because it's really authentic but because everyone can do it. So do baroque and Regency gatherings where people don't know authentic steps. And a fair number of people who do English country dance also do other folk dance forms, especially contra dance, Irish country dance, Scottish country dance (their society's URL is http://www.rscds.org/), and Morris dance. And, a fair number of people who are interested in one or more of these dance forms, are interested in historic dance (especially Victorian) or can become interested in it if they hear about an event. All these dance groups are open to having flyers for other dances deposited on tables somewhere near the entrance, put there for exactly that purpose. Everyone does it, there are usually piles of them. Many people do several of the (related) dance forms above, so local groups try to pick different regular nights and not to hold big special workshops on the same day. It's not because they feel threatened (especially since the organizers are often the same for more than one group). Quite the reverse, it's because they know a lot of dancers want to go to everything in the area and don't want to deprive anyone. (I should add, though, that Morris dance is a performance dance. You can attend open "try this dance" intro workshops, and many groups welcome beginner members; but regular rehearsals are usually not open for people to drop in.) Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Kahlara wrote: >Another possibility for finding like minded people, if you are at all into traditional or folk dancing you might check out some of those groups as well. I used to contra dance (old country dancing) quite frequently and met people from several groups, > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 00:23:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R4MxH8027558 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:22:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R4MN8P073424 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:22:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R4MKuq068089; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:22:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com (imo-d20.mx.aol.com [205.188.139.136]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R4MGj1068019 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:22:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Cheryldee@aol.com) Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.129.66325d4a (48624) for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:22:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Message-ID: <129.66325d4a.306a22f0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:22:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/26/2005 9:24:24 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, garden@earthlydelights.com.au writes: Directoire,: After the French Revolution, specifically during the "Republic", think Marat, Robespierre. 1790's-1800ish. French only. Enormous collars and cravats to the chin on the men. Wild hair styles and pouting bosoms on the women. Tricolor cockades everywhere. Lots of stripes. Empire: Refers to Napoleon's reign. 1800ish to 1815 or so. Not sure when he was deposed but the look begins to change about 1815. Specifically French. An attempt to recall the Greek and Roman look, Although "Empire" may refer to European continental styles in general. Regency: Refers to the King Regent later George IV. He was named Regent due to his father's bouts with insanity. Specifically English. Think Brighton Palace. "Madness of George III" the movie and slightly after. Also Jane Austen. Like the French but much more "sweet". Small floral prints, pastels, etc. Romantic: Lucy Barton term referring to the period 1820-ish to 1840 or so. It's that period when the waists dropped and the sleeves grew enormous and the women looked like they were wearing Ike Bana on their heads. Think Dickens, Bronte sisters. I should think the "Oliver Twist" opening on Friday will be a good example of this period. Cheryl Odom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 00:26:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R4QEYJ027579 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:26:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R4PWXp073582 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:25:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R4PVqK069399; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:25:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R4PReQ069369 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:25:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=kJwTqOXtqBZsXHSaeFR8PDwuMLtYczX9x/2c0mVZD+Iw+81c2RNLd3dORv2u+sdD; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.57.59] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth06.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EK71y-0005xE-DL for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:25:27 -0400 Message-ID: <04b601c5c31b$79b78210$3b399b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: Subject: Re: [h-cost] A previous question Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:25:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0bb1ae8831bfa272e019b9536c41a6a0f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.57.59 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Robin wrote: > Do you mean this? > > http://www.christophersbookroom.com/cc/nazareth/bagatti/colfigs/bagatti-pl43-4.jpg > What I was looking for was a painting, but thanks for this, because it will at least give me an entry point into the archives. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 01:13:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R5DhDk028276 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:13:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R5DHuY076678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:13:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R5DGbm088212; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:13:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.203]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8R5DBwZ088161 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:13:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 53005 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2005 05:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp813.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2005 05:13:05 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050927061123.01d46180@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:13:07 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms In-Reply-To: <129.66325d4a.306a22f0@aol.com> References: <129.66325d4a.306a22f0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > >Directoire,: After the French Revolution, specifically during the >"Republic", think Marat, Robespierre. 1790's-1800ish. French >only. Enormous collars >and cravats to the chin on the men. Wild hair styles and pouting bosoms on >the women. Tricolor cockades everywhere. Lots of stripes. >Empire: Refers to Napoleon's reign. 1800ish to 1815 or so. Not sure when he >was deposed but the look begins to change about 1815. Specifically French. >An attempt to recall the Greek and Roman look, Although "Empire" may refer >to European continental styles in general. > > Regency: Refers to the King Regent later George IV. He was named Regent >due to his father's bouts with >insanity. Specifically English. Think Brighton >Palace. "Madness of George III" the movie and slightly after. Also Jane >Austen. Like the French but much more "sweet". Small floral >prints, pastels, >etc. This is very specific, 1811 - 1820. Before that in England it is Georgian, (from 1714 to 1830) > > Romantic: Lucy Barton term referring to the period 1820-ish to > 1840 or so. > It's that period when the waists dropped and the sleeves grew enormous and >the women looked like they were wearing Ike Bana on their heads. Think >Dickens, Bronte sisters. I should think the "Oliver Twist" opening >on Friday will >be a good example of this period. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 01:49:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R5nogp029768 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R5nExP078671 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:49:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R5nCbQ002380; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:49:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.10.176]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8R5mf2b002180 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:48:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from katherinejsanders@yahoo.co.uk) Received: (qmail 60005 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Sep 2005 05:48:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fJIYkILBKoI8bTQaUymfCQjfW6KPSJ/EU+MQjEcncJSnSmK35rijQYrHzsDK27zJsrHrfSIguP6rRwdrYkpJdKCo3PjcH5tOvZBw8cuDvQ3TVfsH1nJfJq41T7Bs3De70yNSz5+tizI8WPLkSNvf9F5ZtD3jCLCeMAXOqRFyzV0= ; Message-ID: <20050927054835.60003.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.155.204.82] by web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:48:35 BST Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:48:35 +0100 (BST) From: katherine sanders To: h-costume@mail.indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] RE: Scottish Miniatures of Elizabeth & Dudley X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hello Joan This article mentions the catalogue: http://snipurl.com/hywm "A fully illustrated catalogue will accompany the exhibition, written by Dr Stephen Lloyd, Senior Curator of the Scottish National Portrait Gallery and priced £9.95. Further information and images available from the NGS Press Office. Tel 0131 624 6325 / 314 / 332 / 247 National Galleries of Scotland Bridge Lodge, 70 Belford Road Edinburgh EH4 3DE " although I'd also try their website which has a shop: http://www.nationalgalleries.org/ the Scotsman newspaper has an article but no images http://snipurl.com/hywo If I can find another site that has an image of the portraits you're interested in, I'll be sure to post it. Don't hae time to make it there in person, Grrr. HTH, Katherine "A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort" - Herm Albright ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 02:05:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8R65uME031250 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:05:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8R65Vab079699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:05:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R65UPY008497; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:05:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au (mail-iinet.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au [203.59.1.197] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8R65OsJ008417 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:05:27 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from garden@earthlydelights.com.au) Received: from 203-173-3-153.dyn.iinet.net.au (HELO earthlydelights.com.au) ([203.173.3.153]) by mail-ihug.icp-qv1-irony3.iinet.net.au with ESMTP; 27 Sep 2005 14:05:19 +0800 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:13:11 +1000 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines- Victoria Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) From: Garden To: Historical Costume Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <4338B992.1030301@floodcity.net> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh No! - I'd willingly swap making a costume for a whole swag of Victoria magazines - the older issues especially! Aylwen On Tuesday, September 27, 2005, at 01:16 PM, Kitty Felton wrote: > Abel, Cynthia wrote: >> I probably read Vogue and Harper's Bazaar most. I've finally learned >> not >> to save the whole magazine, just rip out and save those inspiration >> pages only for my doll dressing, plus anything from upcoming movies, >> costuming exhibitions(to check for possible catalog/book >> publications)as >> I had about six huge boxes of doll-related and fashion magazines over >> the last ten years. The magazine I miss most is "Victoria" which >> stopped publishing a few >> years' ago. I reluctantly recycled my copies, except for a couple of >> issues--when I did a long-overdue clean out of books and mags several >> weeks ago. Costuming, history and some other books(still about seven >> shelves/3 bookcases full)remain as I need the space for fabric, >> notions >> and other crafting. Will finally get to some of it this winter as >> heating costs will keep me home more along with much quieter(so >> far)tenants in the apartment above mine! >> > Oh you should never recycle Victoria, there are so many people looking > for missing issues. why didn't you post that you had them, I never > read it and would have enjoyed having them to read. Mourn, Mourn, > mourn. Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 07:58:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RBvx4X024866 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RBvFgT016008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:57:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RBvB2j039145; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:57:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vhost1.itasca.net (IDENT:SUjFsMZuidKXtrTViT4agt9ou2Ov8jaU@vhost1.itasca.net [12.157.198.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RBv8m8039104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:57:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from apache@vhost1.itasca.net) Received: from apache by vhost1.itasca.net with local (Exim 4.42 and XAMS 0.0.13) id 1EKE55-0006Ka-Ct; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:57:07 -0500 Received: from 1Cust183.tnt25.dca5.temp.da.uu.net (1Cust183.tnt25.dca5.temp.da.uu.net [67.249.234.183]) by vhost1.itasca.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1127822227.4339339338228@vhost1.itasca.net> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:07 -0400 From: Charlotte Johnson To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-request@indra.com References: <200509270357.j8R3vIQ0056661@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200509270357.j8R3vIQ0056661@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2-cvs X-Originating-IP: 67.249.234.183 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms (A & J Garden) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi, I'm trying to sort out the differences between the following > costuming terms: > Directoire, Empire, Regency, Romantic. I'm not certain about Directoire and Romantic, but Empire, Regency, and Federal are, historically speaking, all about the same time period, but refer to different countries. Empire refers to the Napoleonic empire, and is French. Regency is English, and Federal is American. -Charlotte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 07:58:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RBvxDJ024867 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RBvFvS016009 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:57:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RBvBCq039149; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:57:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from vhost1.itasca.net (IDENT:09RHQSaNCCBwEcieRl1ztdzVrlAHPh/X@vhost1.itasca.net [12.157.198.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RBv8H3039105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:57:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from apache@vhost1.itasca.net) Received: from apache by vhost1.itasca.net with local (Exim 4.42 and XAMS 0.0.13) id 1EKE55-0006Ka-Ct; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:57:07 -0500 Received: from 1Cust183.tnt25.dca5.temp.da.uu.net (1Cust183.tnt25.dca5.temp.da.uu.net [67.249.234.183]) by vhost1.itasca.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:07 -0400 Message-ID: <1127822227.4339339338228@vhost1.itasca.net> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:07 -0400 From: Charlotte Johnson To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-request@indra.com References: <200509270357.j8R3vIQ0056661@net.indra.com> In-Reply-To: <200509270357.j8R3vIQ0056661@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2-cvs X-Originating-IP: 67.249.234.183 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms (A & J Garden) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Hi, I'm trying to sort out the differences between the following > costuming terms: > Directoire, Empire, Regency, Romantic. I'm not certain about Directoire and Romantic, but Empire, Regency, and Federal are, historically speaking, all about the same time period, but refer to different countries. Empire refers to the Napoleonic empire, and is French. Regency is English, and Federal is American. -Charlotte _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 08:29:48 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RCTkN7027665 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:29:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RCTN3D018031 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:29:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RCTLhw052552; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:29:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RCTHgI052469 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:29:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8RCTAV04812.; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:29:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:29:10 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:28:47 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms Mime-Version: 1.0 X-DCC-dcc.uncw.edu-Metrics: net.indra.com 1201; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8RCTkN7027665 Status: RO Politically speaking, the French "Directoire" lasted from 1795-99, when Napoleon seized power. He made himself Emperor in (I think) 1804, and was finally deposed after the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. The future George IV was made Prince Regent in 1811, and succeeded as king in 1820. Of course, the fashion changes didn't literally correspond with regime changes, so to all intents and purposes Empire style = Regency style. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> Cheryldee@aol.com 27/09/2005 05:22 >>> In a message dated 9/26/2005 9:24:24 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, garden@earthlydelights.com.au writes: Directoire,: After the French Revolution, specifically during the "Republic", think Marat, Robespierre. 1790's-1800ish. French only. Enormous collars and cravats to the chin on the men. Wild hair styles and pouting bosoms on the women. Tricolor cockades everywhere. Lots of stripes. Empire: Refers to Napoleon's reign. 1800ish to 1815 or so. Not sure when he was deposed but the look begins to change about 1815. Specifically French. An attempt to recall the Greek and Roman look, Although "Empire" may refer to European continental styles in general. Regency: Refers to the King Regent later George IV. He was named Regent due to his father's bouts with insanity. Specifically English. Think Brighton Palace. "Madness of George III" the movie and slightly after. Also Jane Austen. Like the French but much more "sweet". Small floral prints, pastels, etc. Romantic: Lucy Barton term referring to the period 1820-ish to 1840 or so. It's that period when the waists dropped and the sleeves grew enormous and the women looked like they were wearing Ike Bana on their heads. Think Dickens, Bronte sisters. I should think the "Oliver Twist" opening on Friday will be a good example of this period. Cheryl Odom _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 08:53:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RCr3ta001381 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RCqhjB020033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:52:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RCqf2f063147; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:52:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RCqc1I063085 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:52:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h29so238838wxd for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=DsXxtrB0ii8Zsq2XQ50ikQGMjsmdE4FML9rCygWD6S4CnyXj7AjUYbQ94pVcuaX5OFhcO9lQXP5GrBt8xnz0dkOF5D+ZTIzHbrbRSjyM/wkSxKnnrZM0OrA56itN0B3d7kfP+VOqtjZzqYNEcRJ7/DwQ0n2aQJb+P0yf5IPIn6g= Received: by 10.70.113.4 with SMTP id l4mr2230656wxc; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.73.7 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1905092705526f71b3fd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:52:33 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RCqc1I063085 Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts (http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! Allison T. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0700 > From: Lavolta Press > Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why > renaissance... > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <4338C31A.5070702@lavoltapress.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > English country dance is an even better place to meet people with > historical interests. There are many branches of the Country Dance and > Song Society in the US. Their website is: > > http://www.cdss.org/ > > Despite being a historically inauthentic revival, English country dance > is easy, fun, full of friendly people, and many places have excellent > live musicians playing. I think the SCA uses English country dance a > lot at gatherings, not because it's really authentic but because > everyone can do it. So do baroque and Regency gatherings where people > don't know authentic steps. And a fair number of people who do English > country dance also do other folk dance forms, especially contra dance, > Irish country dance, Scottish country dance (their society's URL is > http://www.rscds.org/), and Morris dance. And, a fair number of people > who are interested in one or more of these dance forms, are interested > in historic dance (especially Victorian) or can become interested in it > if they hear about an event. All these dance groups are open to having > flyers for other dances deposited on tables somewhere near the entrance, > put there for exactly that purpose. Everyone does it, there are usually > piles of them. > > Many people do several of the (related) dance forms above, so local > groups try to pick different regular nights and not to hold big special > workshops on the same day. It's not because they feel threatened > (especially since the organizers are often the same for more than one > group). Quite the reverse, it's because they know a lot of dancers want > to go to everything in the area and don't want to deprive anyone. (I > should add, though, that Morris dance is a performance dance. You can > attend open "try this dance" intro workshops, and many groups welcome > beginner members; but regular rehearsals are usually not open for > people to drop in.) > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 08:53:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RCr8sg001393 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RCqhHA020032 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:52:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RCqfRT063142; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:52:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RCqc21063088 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:52:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s9so424377wxc for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=DsXxtrB0ii8Zsq2XQ50ikQGMjsmdE4FML9rCygWD6S4CnyXj7AjUYbQ94pVcuaX5OFhcO9lQXP5GrBt8xnz0dkOF5D+ZTIzHbrbRSjyM/wkSxKnnrZM0OrA56itN0B3d7kfP+VOqtjZzqYNEcRJ7/DwQ0n2aQJb+P0yf5IPIn6g= Received: by 10.70.113.4 with SMTP id l4mr2230656wxc; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.73.7 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1905092705526f71b3fd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:52:33 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RCqc21063088 Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts (http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! Allison T. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0700 > From: Lavolta Press > Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why > renaissance... > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <4338C31A.5070702@lavoltapress.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > English country dance is an even better place to meet people with > historical interests. There are many branches of the Country Dance and > Song Society in the US. Their website is: > > http://www.cdss.org/ > > Despite being a historically inauthentic revival, English country dance > is easy, fun, full of friendly people, and many places have excellent > live musicians playing. I think the SCA uses English country dance a > lot at gatherings, not because it's really authentic but because > everyone can do it. So do baroque and Regency gatherings where people > don't know authentic steps. And a fair number of people who do English > country dance also do other folk dance forms, especially contra dance, > Irish country dance, Scottish country dance (their society's URL is > http://www.rscds.org/), and Morris dance. And, a fair number of people > who are interested in one or more of these dance forms, are interested > in historic dance (especially Victorian) or can become interested in it > if they hear about an event. All these dance groups are open to having > flyers for other dances deposited on tables somewhere near the entrance, > put there for exactly that purpose. Everyone does it, there are usually > piles of them. > > Many people do several of the (related) dance forms above, so local > groups try to pick different regular nights and not to hold big special > workshops on the same day. It's not because they feel threatened > (especially since the organizers are often the same for more than one > group). Quite the reverse, it's because they know a lot of dancers want > to go to everything in the area and don't want to deprive anyone. (I > should add, though, that Morris dance is a performance dance. You can > attend open "try this dance" intro workshops, and many groups welcome > beginner members; but regular rehearsals are usually not open for > people to drop in.) > > Fran > Lavolta Press > http://www.lavoltapress.com > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 09:41:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RDfn0D010124 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:41:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RDetT6023614 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:40:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RDep5P089540; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:40:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RDeQ90089271 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:40:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:40:21 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:40:07 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO As several folks have already mentioned, this gold braid is also called plait stitch and Jane Zimmerman has instructions for doing it in one of her books on Elizabethan embroidery. Leon Conrad also has a different idea on how to do this stitch. His website seems to be down right now ( http://www.lcdesigns.org/ ), and I can't remember if he ever posted instructions there but there was a two-part article on the stitch by him in Fine Lines (Historic Needlework Guild) last year. I've only had a chance to play with this stitch a little myself but I would recommend practicing before putting it on a coif :). Hope this helps, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 09:58:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RDwY4f013633 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RDvu4m025092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RDvpIF000229; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m24.mx.aol.com (imo-m24.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RDvl4u099990 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:57:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Chindora@aol.com) Received: from Chindora@aol.com by imo-m24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.2b.7c518e5c (15900) for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-D29 (fwm-d29.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.5]) by air-id09.mx.aol.com (v107.13) with ESMTP id MAILINID93-3e1c43394fca361; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:57:30 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:57:30 -0400 Message-Id: <8C7918289594FDC-1410-1064D@FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com> From: chindora@aol.com References: Received: from 216.199.167.48 by FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.5) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:57:30 -0400 X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 1.1.0.14204 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question (Thanks ) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com X-AOL-IP: 205.188.162.5 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Well, I have learned a bit from my query. Firstly, that there are several differing opinions as to exactly which stitch is used, and secondly, that different stitches can have the same name. Oh, and that it is about impossible to find instructions that I can actually understand on how to do this elusive plaited braid stitch. Yes, Leon has pictures of his stitch online, but no instructions. I did find a set of instructions on one page, but the graphics made it very unclear as to which side of the needle the thread passed at one particular point. After many attempts to do the stitch by those instructions, I gave it up. I found another set of instructions, but the finished stitch that was shown on that webpage looked absolutely nothing like the stitch shown in the coif. I did find that the heavy chain looks (to my inexperienced eye) like the stitch shown in the coif, but then I have people who I consider to have a much more keenly honed knowledge of the field telling me that it is indeed a plaited braid and not the oh so easy heavy chain. Of course, it would be too easy for it to be the simple heavy chain. (grin) I am stuck, as there is no place here in Jacksonville, Florida that I can find with a copy of a book that has Elizabethan embroidery stitches in it. Not even the library, if their online card catalogue is to be believed. Until I can find someone to either demonstrate the stitch or an online reference (or of course ILL), I am going to have to go with the heavy chain stitch. The linen for the coif has not arrived yet, so I still have a bit of time to change my mind if I can figure out how to do that plaited braid, but if not, I am OK with my other option. Thanks so much to everyone who has given bits of information. I have truly enjoyed the sharing, as usual. :) ~Kimberley -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Kinsey To: h-costume@indra.com Sent: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:40:07 -0500 Subject: [h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question As several folks have already mentioned, this gold braid is also called plait stitch and Jane Zimmerman has instructions for doing it in one of her books on Elizabethan embroidery. Leon Conrad also has a different idea on how to do this stitch. His website seems to be down right now ( http://www.lcdesigns.org/ ), and I can't remember if he ever posted instructions there but there was a two-part article on the stitch by him in Fine Lines (Historic Needlework Guild) last year. I've only had a chance to play with this stitch a little myself but I would recommend practicing before putting it on a coif :). Hope this helps, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 11:33:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RFXH0s004442 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:33:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RFWAPM036622 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:32:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RFW66d072168; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:32:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RFW2nG072032 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:32:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.127.6578aebf (4246) for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:31:46 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <127.6578aebf.306abfe2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:31:46 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/27/2005 8:29:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk writes: The future George IV was made Prince Regent in 1811, and succeeded as king in 1820. Of course, the fashion changes didn't literally correspond with regime changes, so to all intents and purposes Empire style = Regency style. But, just to confuse the issue, in decorative arts we also use "Empire" to refer to the late classical style, 1815-1840. This used to confuse me no end, as Napoleon was finally deposed in 1815. But elements of the neoclassical definitely lingered on. Also, some people extend "Regency" to 1830, because George IV was still king, but, of course, no longer regent after 1820. So, roughly, Federal (US), empire (French) and Regency (English) are talking about the same period of time and similar styles, but not necessarily identical. Oh, and there is also a French "Regence," (the regency of Louis XV?), in the early 18th century. So I try to distinguish ENGLISH Regency, just as I'm trying to get in the habit or referring to the AMERICAN Civil War period, as distinguished from the ENGLISH Civil War. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 11:46:15 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RFkELW006975 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:46:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RFjOYK038718 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:45:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RFjJ9u083893; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:45:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web52805.mail.yahoo.com (web52805.mail.yahoo.com [206.190.48.248]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8RFj2PZ083629 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:45:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kjp1685@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 1159 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Sep 2005 15:44:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CBEdDnsEYqpyEDCHU7AF0SGMxRAetyh2aml1Fo6hWxAxnQ5UrTya0XqiNFDRIPjylwCPzAwUtYVDFtHZ2Ufj3WZCkeBG9eYQxCS4t6nskBb+BV4ysV1YrVWms74jFblkG2sW0MrXAwfkKP5RAh+jigMC3BZXsNjHQYFy2YvtBfE= ; Message-ID: <20050927154457.1157.qmail@web52805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.103.24.30] by web52805.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:44:56 PDT Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:44:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Kathryn Parke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Apparently he's merely changed his web address -- I googled him from your info and got this: http://www.leonconraddesigns.freeserve.co.uk/ Looks excessively festive! KP Catherine Kinsey wrote: As several folks have already mentioned, this gold braid is also called plait stitch and Jane Zimmerman has instructions for doing it in one of her books on Elizabethan embroidery. Leon Conrad also has a different idea on how to do this stitch. His website seems to be down right now ( http://www.lcdesigns.org/ ), and I can't remember if he ever posted instructions there but there was a two-part article on the stitch by him in Fine Lines (Historic Needlework Guild) last year. I've only had a chance to play with this stitch a little myself but I would recommend practicing before putting it on a coif :). Hope this helps, Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 11:47:58 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RFlvt4007311 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:47:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RFlSeA038968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:47:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RFlPho085648; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:47:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta06.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RFlKmw085544 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:47:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from dm20.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta06.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02E9A18328 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:47:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm20 Received: from mailweb23.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm20.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm20.4328688c.ab01c for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5DOWmG+ZvBSQIAAAAB,e22cbcfda6404b976b1c8a6fc1cf79e0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:47:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]"Elizabeth" X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.83.17] Message-Id: <20050927084718.55D25554@dm20.mta.everyone.net> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The irony of this gives me a great deal of satisfaction, for some reason. ;-> Joannah --- Chris Laning wrote: >snip The amusing thing, my friend said, is that the director clearly didn't know enough about the period portraits to spot when the costumers _did_ lift something straight out of a well-known historical source :) _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 14:07:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RI7Cju009660 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:07:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RI6cIp058140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:06:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RI6VXc006297; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:06:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail8.mdx.safepages.com (mail8.mdx.safepages.com [216.127.133.23]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RFk1ij084451 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:46:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from formfunc@formfunction.org) Received: by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id AD2161433BD; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:46:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from compaqub (dialup-4.245.7.141.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net [4.245.7.141]) by mail8.mdx.safepages.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0F8711433F4 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:45:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <06b801c5c37a$cfee8930$0400a8c0@compaqub> From: "E House" To: "Historical Costume" References: <8C7918289594FDC-1410-1064D@FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question (Thanks ) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:47:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Here's some instructions that at least worked with my brain: http://www.hand-dyedfibers.com/plait.html And apparently lcdesigns.org is down because the site has moved to: http://www.leonconraddesigns.freeserve.co.uk and the plaited braid stitch page, which doesn't show how to do it, is here: http://www.leonconraddesigns.freeserve.co.uk/pbs.htm (Sorry, I came in halfway through, so I may be reposting links someone else already has posted.) -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 14:08:42 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RI8gAF009684 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RI80d2058271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:08:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RI7uao007420; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:07:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta08.mta.everyone.net (sitemail3.everyone.net [216.200.145.37]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RGhEcw033376 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:43:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from Joannah@sluggy.net) Received: from dm22.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta08.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B901B4003C for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm22 Received: from mailweb33.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm22.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm22.43286892.ac084 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQGRWS5DOXaeZcAp4QIAAAAB,fdc6487b3be81eab3486a1a96b45232b Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:43:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Joannah Hansen To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: why renaissance and not 18th century? X-Originating-Ip: [220.239.83.17] Message-Id: <20050927094310.55D26E77@dm22.mta.everyone.net> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; bulk rep Body=many Fuz1=many Fuz2=many rep=12% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Too new!?! At least you go back to the 16thC - as far as settlement by Europeans goes. We ( European settlers ) only go back to 1788. ( Well, 1606, if you start with the Duyfken - http://www.duyfken.com/original/index.html - but they didn't stay and settle. ) My own home town was only founded in 1824. Joannah in Brisbane, Australia ( who sighs over the idea of living with in place with as much visible history as England and Europe ..... sigh ) --- WickedFrau wrote: >snip >From a history perspective, I just find American history to be "too new." > _____________________________________________________________ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 14:09:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RI9Dpb009691 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:09:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RI8N4Y058348 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:08:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RI8L7v007867; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:08:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RGsGag042505 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:54:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D513C85D for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:54:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <43397946.8060407@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:54:30 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question (Thanks ) References: <8C7918289594FDC-1410-1064D@FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <8C7918289594FDC-1410-1064D@FWM-D29.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO chindora@aol.com wrote: > I am stuck, as there is no place here in Jacksonville, Florida that I can find with a copy of a book that has Elizabethan embroidery stitches in it. Not even the library, if their online card catalogue is to be believed. Until I can find someone to either demonstrate the stitch or an online reference (or of course ILL), I am going to have to go with the heavy chain stitch. The SCA stock clerk (sca.org) sells a pamphlet called "Wrought with Flowers of Black Silk" from the Compleat Anachronist series, it is #115. I believe they sell for about $4. A number of stitches are demonstrated, braid and plaited braid, and there's some fill patterns for the designs on those coifs. It's cheap and available, and , I think, a pretty good intro to Elizabethan period embroidery. The list of references will give your library a place to start if you consider ILL. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 14:10:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RIAvr8009721 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:10:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RIAYfT058678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:10:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RIAY0q009788; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:10:34 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu (kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu [169.147.4.11]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RI4tAB004583 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:04:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ckinsey@kumc.edu) Received: from KUMC-SMTPOUT-DOMAIN-MTA by kumc-smtpout.kumc.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:04:49 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.2 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:04:38 -0500 From: "Catherine Kinsey" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Embroidered Coif from V&A/ stitch question X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And apparently lcdesigns.org is down because the site has moved to: http://www.leonconraddesigns.freeserve.co.uk ======================= Thanks! I will update my bookmarks :). Catherine _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 15:42:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RJg6d1011096 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RJfKvE070175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:41:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RJfB4t085537; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:41:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RJf8SS085404 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:41:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.57]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050927194051.URWL6445.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:40:51 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050927142453.02ba97a0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:40:46 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Interesting forensic info. "His forensic investigation revealed that Cosimo I's wife Eleonora da Toledo (1522-1562), beautifully portrayed by Agnolo Bronzino in a painting on display at the National Gallery in Prague, was five feet tall (1.58 meter), had a protruding chin, twisted legs, suffered from toothache and had shin splints, caused by an inflammation of the outer layer of the bone that occurs often during the later stages of syphilis. "However, the portrait shows a beautiful lady, and comparison with the skull reveals that the painting is rather realistic, except for the chin. The artist portrayed her from above, using a perspective trick. In this way the chin appears more regular," Rollo said. " "Renaissance Painters "Corrected" Portrait Features" May 10, 2005 http://www.sgallery.net/news/05_2005/10.php BTW The Prague painting is online at http://www.ngprague.cz/show_en.php?picName=a_7.jpg http://www.ngprague.cz/main.php?language=en&pageid=a01 and a poster of it is available from them. I have the email if needed. Hope that this is of some interest. Beth Matney _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 16:19:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RKJGBb011859 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:19:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RKIo2s074584 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:18:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKIjUG015729; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from p03m115.mxlogic.net (p03m115.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.115]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKIeoj015635 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:18:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [199.184.176.9] by p03m115.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.12.2-02) with SMTP id 229a9334.1176611760.81599.p03m115.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexpf01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:18:14 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:18:16 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: What are These? Thread-Index: AcXDF6839uozYn5DTFewbFTjqOwlTwAiKY8A From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2005 20:18:14.0485 (UTC) FILETIME=[96F68850:01C5C3A0] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005092001)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [199.184.176.9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RKIeoj015635 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: What are These? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > The seventh image down on this page http://www.wga.hu/index1.html -- that's the frame location, not the image you want us to look at. Can you figure out the URL of the actual image? cv Oops! It worked fine yesterday . . . The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his third page, seventh image down. Kate McClure _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 16:46:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RKkLTh012206 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:46:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RKjM5V077697 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:45:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKjFcT036615; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:45:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.195]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKjAJp036504 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:45:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h29so324879wxd for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=D8GxJuH/s5uPh/y5aYPUeZ+QSNZhG0NJwnrhiJA2kb4JWBof2pi3tTUGed8dDyHgMjnqWOpuipXTz0/KF/k0aPsxm34ELY0mC0ZFPhErib3goMKjqHbgLKiIJ03ehORhCF1C2+YD0vXvAvn95R9cKb0/OrUdXmlgb52p7LdeoGg= Received: by 10.70.113.7 with SMTP id l7mr3201411wxc; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.31.10 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:45:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05092713455dc6ed90@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:45:05 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These? In-Reply-To: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RKjAJp036504 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO they look like tassels connected to the network over her chemise. the original hootchie-cootchie dancer? LynnD On 9/27/05, McClure, Kate wrote: > > > > The seventh image down on this page http://www.wga.hu/index1.html > > -- that's the frame location, not the image you want us to look at. Can > you figure out the URL of the actual image? > > cv > > Oops! It worked fine yesterday . . . > > The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his > third page, seventh image down. > > Kate McClure > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 16:53:39 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RKrdZB012343 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:53:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RKrFcd078973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:53:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKrDcQ043080; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:53:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKrAWd042968 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:53:11 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:53:04 -0700 Message-ID: <4339B12D.1010801@msn.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:53:01 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These? References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> In-Reply-To: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2005 20:53:04.0851 (UTC) FILETIME=[74EB1230:01C5C3A5] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Can you give us the painting info? I only get one page of images and the 7th one down is: * Altarpiece of the Lamentation (central)* Oil on wood, 145 x 206 cm Musée du Louvre, Paris Sg McClure, Kate wrote: >The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his >third page, seventh image down. > >Kate McClure > > > > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 16:58:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RKwcXg012411 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:58:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RKwA14079703 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKvwt1047190; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:58:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RKveth046818 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:57:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7311D3B600 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:57:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <4339B259.5010406@reddawn.net> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:58:01 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These? References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> In-Reply-To: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO McClure, Kate wrote: > The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his > third page, seventh image down. Altarpiece of the Lamentation (central) ? They look like tassels to me. I'm not a religious iconography expert, but I bet she's supposed to be Mary Magdalen, and that would be Mary in the black robes and white headdress. No idea who the third woman in back is. I wouldn't count on her clothing being too accurate. It looks a little "exotic" for the time and place of the painting. By comparison, there's the donors in front in the fur-lined robes. Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 17:10:10 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RLA96g012683 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:10:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RL9jLj081211 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:09:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RL9cPj056285; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:09:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp04.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RL9YKT056154 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:09:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP04.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:09:22 -0700 Message-ID: <4339B4FF.6010601@msn.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:09:19 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2005 21:09:22.0885 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBDF3750:01C5C3A7] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] New to me painting-wondering about layers-was "what are these?" X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Sorry for the cross post This is a "new to me" painting http://www.wga.hu/index1.html * CLEVE, Joos van* Portrait of Agniete van den Rijne Oil on oak, 40 x 29 cm Rijksmuseum Twenthe, Enschede 'Spose this lady has 3 garments on besides her chemise?. I just have to wonder if the black thing isn't a corset or gown that looks like the ones Sir Thomas Moore's family women are wearing. http://www.tudor-portraits.com/ThomasMore.jpg* * _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 17:15:55 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RLFtRj012772 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RLFEtl081917 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:15:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLFCgK060783; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:15:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net (smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLF6x8060681 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:15:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from hpinto@mindspring.com) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=d1J/ds+87JxiZxZ9TqssQD8fYYLId70GibvzBSXgmfoAudsi9WEqovp1OE/dqN8E; h=Received:Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [4.155.21.138] (helo=HELENPINTO) by smtpauth08.mail.atl.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EKMn2-0000I4-HB for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:15:05 -0400 Message-ID: <02a801c5c3a8$85905d40$8a159b04@HELENPINTO> From: "Helen Pinto" To: "Historical Costume" References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These? Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:14:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: f3dec0b0682ec1505e89bb4777695beb69025943178dce0b01ceebc0e89fb27a89823799ee55b647350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 4.155.21.138 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO My guess is tassels, hanging from two cords forming a V-shape. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 17:30:06 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RLU5N0013010 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:30:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RLTfJI083875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:29:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLTa2V072839; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:29:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8RLTU5v072689 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:29:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 15932 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2005 14:29:21 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 15845, pid: 15876, t: 6.1188s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:34/d:1095 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 27 Sep 2005 14:29:14 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050927142752.04be3de0@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:29:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These? In-Reply-To: <8296995c05092713455dc6ed90@mail.gmail.com> References: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F92E@denpexmb01-dex-bup> <8296995c05092713455dc6ed90@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-DCC-indra.com-Metrics: net.indra.com 1044; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=2% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:45 PM 9/27/2005, you wrote: >they look like tassels connected to the network over her chemise. the >original hootchie-cootchie dancer? >LynnD > >On 9/27/05, McClure, Kate wrote: > > > >[snip] > > > > The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his > > third page, seventh image down. > > > > Kate McClure I wonder if that figure is intended to be Mary Magdalene. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 17:36:47 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RLakPL013133 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:36:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RLaOxm084730 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:36:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLaCvX078198; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:36:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net (mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.209]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLZs4g077973 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:36:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from fox3785@charter.net) Received: from mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net (mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.150]) by mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j8RLZnOK006402 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:35:49 -0400 Received: from 71-10-245-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com (HELO familyroom) (71.10.245.249) by mxip20a.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 27 Sep 2005 17:35:50 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.97,150,1125892800"; d="scan'208"; a="1546621346:sNHT31812102" From: "The Foxes" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE: What are These? Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:35:47 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c5c3ab$6efbd930$0302a8c0@familyroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <02a801c5c3a8$85905d40$8a159b04@HELENPINTO> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RLZs4g077973 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The treatment is similar on this dress, with cords hanging down rather than tassels though. Portrait of Dorothea Meyer, née Kannengiesser 1516 by Holbein the younger http://www.wga.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1518/3meyer2.jpg Holbein page: http://www.wga.hu/html/h/holbein/hans_y/1518/index.html Good luck Annette -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Helen Pinto Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These? My guess is tassels, hanging from two cords forming a V-shape. -Helen/Aidan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 17:37:18 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RLbHKZ013141 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:37:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RLb18x084806 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:37:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLatN2078796; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLai23078668 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:36:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EKN7y-0007GV-8b; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:36:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:35:35 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? References: <7d21ac1905092705526f71b3fd@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7d21ac1905092705526f71b3fd@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA "fencing", but I'm not sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. Jean A. Thurman wrote >It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts >(http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people >interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I >don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - >I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as >fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary >costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! > >Allison T. >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0700 >> From: Lavolta Press >> Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why >> renaissance... >> To: Historical Costume >> Message-ID: <4338C31A.5070702@lavoltapress.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> English country dance is an even better place to meet people with >> historical interests. There are many branches of the Country Dance and >> Song Society in the US. Their website is: >> >> http://www.cdss.org/ >> >> Despite being a historically inauthentic revival, English country dance >> is easy, fun, full of friendly people, and many places have excellent >> live musicians playing. I think the SCA uses English country dance a >> lot at gatherings, not because it's really authentic but because >> everyone can do it. So do baroque and Regency gatherings where people >> don't know authentic steps. And a fair number of people who do English >> country dance also do other folk dance forms, especially contra dance, >> Irish country dance, Scottish country dance (their society's URL is >> http://www.rscds.org/), and Morris dance. And, a fair number of people >> who are interested in one or more of these dance forms, are interested >> in historic dance (especially Victorian) or can become interested in it >> if they hear about an event. All these dance groups are open to having >> flyers for other dances deposited on tables somewhere near the entrance, >> put there for exactly that purpose. Everyone does it, there are usually >> piles of them. >> >> Many people do several of the (related) dance forms above, so local >> groups try to pick different regular nights and not to hold big special >> workshops on the same day. It's not because they feel threatened >> (especially since the organizers are often the same for more than one >> group). Quite the reverse, it's because they know a lot of dancers want >> to go to everything in the area and don't want to deprive anyone. (I >> should add, though, that Morris dance is a performance dance. You can >> attend open "try this dance" intro workshops, and many groups welcome >> beginner members; but regular rehearsals are usually not open for >> people to drop in.) >> >> Fran >> Lavolta Press >> http://www.lavoltapress.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 17:37:27 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RLbQsE013144 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:37:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RLb0ci084802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:37:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLatY8078797; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:36:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLaiHV078667 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:36:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from anne@montgomerie.demon.co.uk) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([80.177.117.223]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1EKN7y-0007GV-8b; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:36:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:35:35 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? References: <7d21ac1905092705526f71b3fd@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7d21ac1905092705526f71b3fd@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.04-U () X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA "fencing", but I'm not sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. Jean A. Thurman wrote >It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts >(http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people >interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I >don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - >I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as >fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary >costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! > >Allison T. >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:14 -0700 >> From: Lavolta Press >> Subject: Re: playing in period societies? Re: [h-cost] why >> renaissance... >> To: Historical Costume >> Message-ID: <4338C31A.5070702@lavoltapress.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> English country dance is an even better place to meet people with >> historical interests. There are many branches of the Country Dance and >> Song Society in the US. Their website is: >> >> http://www.cdss.org/ >> >> Despite being a historically inauthentic revival, English country dance >> is easy, fun, full of friendly people, and many places have excellent >> live musicians playing. I think the SCA uses English country dance a >> lot at gatherings, not because it's really authentic but because >> everyone can do it. So do baroque and Regency gatherings where people >> don't know authentic steps. And a fair number of people who do English >> country dance also do other folk dance forms, especially contra dance, >> Irish country dance, Scottish country dance (their society's URL is >> http://www.rscds.org/), and Morris dance. And, a fair number of people >> who are interested in one or more of these dance forms, are interested >> in historic dance (especially Victorian) or can become interested in it >> if they hear about an event. All these dance groups are open to having >> flyers for other dances deposited on tables somewhere near the entrance, >> put there for exactly that purpose. Everyone does it, there are usually >> piles of them. >> >> Many people do several of the (related) dance forms above, so local >> groups try to pick different regular nights and not to hold big special >> workshops on the same day. It's not because they feel threatened >> (especially since the organizers are often the same for more than one >> group). Quite the reverse, it's because they know a lot of dancers want >> to go to everything in the area and don't want to deprive anyone. (I >> should add, though, that Morris dance is a performance dance. You can >> attend open "try this dance" intro workshops, and many groups welcome >> beginner members; but regular rehearsals are usually not open for >> people to drop in.) >> >> Fran >> Lavolta Press >> http://www.lavoltapress.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 17:43:07 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RLh73C013247 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:43:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RLgZet085460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLgS1P083507; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net (pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net [207.69.195.68] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RLgMRQ082828 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rapierlady@earthlink.net) Received: from elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net ([209.86.224.48]) by pop-cowbird.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #10) id 1EKNCp-0000sf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:41:43 -0400 Message-ID: <33470353.1127857303332.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:41:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Wendy Colbert To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Rapier (or fencing) in the SCA runs the gamut from those who fence in a style close to modern sport fencing to those who are fairly serious researchers of period techniques of the 15th through 16th C through translation and redaction of period manuals. Wendy -----Original Message----- From: Jean Waddie Sent: Sep 27, 2005 5:35 PM To: Historical Costume Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA "fencing", but I'm not sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. Jean A. Thurman wrote >It might also be worthwhile to look at historic martial arts >(http://www.thehaca.com/, www.mashs.org and similar) for people >interested in period play. I know the SCA does some of this but I >don't know how invested they are in true period fighting techniques - >I fence with MASHS and their devotion to the old manuals can be as >fervent as some of the h-costume memberships adherence to primary >costume sources. And they've got to have *something* to fence in! > >Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 18:07:52 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RM7pZc013644 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:07:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RM6tKL088781 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:06:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RM6lC7002820; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RM6b5n002705 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:06:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26183 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:06:35 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:06:32 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms Thread-Index: AcXDEtuIdDry4hIRREOwx/kLuszrtQAliGxQ From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RM6b5n002705 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, you have them in the correct order Directorie: Basically 1795-1799. A very short period, but full of fashion extremes on the streets of Paris. Heideloff's "Gallery of Fashion" is a good source of plates from the fashion perspective of Great Britain. While the change in men's fashions confined itself most of all to eliminating most of the peacock glory of men's court wear, the introduction of pantaloons(trousers)replacing knee britches and men mostly renouncing hair powder upping the taxes on flour( which was the main ingredient in most hair powders ) in Great Britain and the view that hair powder was one of the symbols seen as supporting the Old Regieme in France. Women's fashions continued the rather radical change that started just before the French Revolution. The high waisted look became fashionable for the first time in over 150 years. The various permutations of the so-called pocket-hoops and skirt backfullness, supported by pads were pronounced passe in order to meet the new ideal of a female Greek statue. Most women, even Mary Wollstonecraft, still wore stays, but fabrics were plainer, although imported cotton and Indian shawls along with high fashion's embrace of white, still meant being a la mode wasn't cheap. Shoes went from what we would call modest heels, to flat slippers. More comfortable, but not if you had high arches. Lots of Greek and Roman influences in fashion--especially when it came to one's headgear. As those handy pockets worn within one's gown were pronounced obsolete, the predecessor of the modern purse, the Indepensible became a visible accessory. Cameos and semi-precious stones become the last word in jewelry. Empire: 1800-1815: Still lots of Roman influences, but on a grander scale. Tons more gold. The coronation portrait of Napoleon and Josephine gives one a good idea of the grafting of splendor on former simplicity and signs of the coming Romantic period are visible in Josphine's Elizabethan collars and ringleted hair in her portraits. The high-waisted skirts widen and start to take on increasingly ornate embelishments. Although men's dress wear and court costume can still be ornate, Beau Brummell and Napoleon's own preferences for dark, simpler dress, influences the continued copying of the embroidery-less suits most gentlement started wearing in the 1700's. Regency: 1811-1820 Lots of influence from the British colonies, especially in India and Asia. Tons of color and more is more. Englishwomen's fashionable dress embrasses details from both men's military wear and romantic influences from the past. The Prince Regent and his set still don't say no to color in their habillement, but most men prefer quieter, but very expensive tailored suits. Savile Row is the mecca for the truly fashionable moneyed gentleman. Romantic:1820-1837. Women's bodice length really starts to drop from just below the bust to normal waist. Sleeves and skirts balloon in width as does the shoulder line. The Industrial Revolution makes possible the manufacture of cheaper cloth and makers start creating even more complex weaving and dyeing techniques than before. Skirts shorten to about the ankle for a few years, which means more attention on footwear and hose Fashionable women and girls appear almost buried in the ruffles, pleatings and other details often lavished on the new wider skirts, sleeves, and shoulder berthas and capes. Headgear and hairdressing become increasingly complicated and ornate, even weighty looking to the early 21st c eye. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of A & J Garden Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:31 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Question about historical costuming terms Hi, I'm trying to sort out the differences between the following costuming terms: Directoire, Empire, Regency, Romantic. Have I got them in the right order and are they the right terms - or is one simply another term coined in another country? And how do we avoid all the confusion I encounter whenever I visit another website I read a different story about dates?I realise there will always be a slight confusion about when each period starts and finishes and why, but I'd love to try to simplify matters. One area I'm not sure of - I used to think Empire and Romantic were the same period and came after Regency - but some sites list empire as coming before Regency. Cheers4now, Aylwen _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 18:19:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RMIxCU013794 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:19:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RMIVeL090179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:18:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RMISqA011320; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:18:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from p03m105.mxlogic.net (p03m105.mxlogic.net [216.183.119.105]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RMIMd5011265 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:18:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kate.mcclure@dexmedia.com) Received: from unknown [199.184.176.9] by p03m105.mxlogic.net (mxl_mta-2.12.2-02) with SMTP id 135c9334.1250032560.33192.p03m105.mxlogic.net (envelope-from ); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:18:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from denpexmb01.dex.dexmedia.com ([144.163.32.41]) by denpexpf01.dex.dexmedia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:18:02 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:18:01 -0600 Message-ID: <4573B3011A18EF4A86F07223C3E8E15D01A8F935@denpexmb01-dex-bup> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: What are These? Thread-Index: AcXDr/ZDjp6xPkHoSRq8Xt2bId23JAAAMoIg From: "McClure, Kate" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2005 22:18:02.0368 (UTC) FILETIME=[53467000:01C5C3B1] X-Spam: [F=0.0100000000; S=0.010(2005092001)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [199.184.176.9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RMIMd5011265 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: What are These? X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO they look like tassels connected to the network over her chemise. the original hootchie-cootchie dancer? LynnD *snort* You forgot the drink warning on that one . . . They look like tassels to me. I'm not a religious iconography expert, but I bet she's supposed to be Mary Magdalen, and that would be Mary in the black robes and white headdress. No idea who the third woman in back is. I wouldn't count on her clothing being too accurate. It looks a little "exotic" for the time and place of the painting. By comparison, there's the donors in front in the fur-lined robes. Dawn Yes, well, the 'exotic' is kind of what drew me to it. Now that folks have mentioned tassels, it does look more like that than pearls. The treatment is similar on this dress, with cords hanging down rather than tassels though. Portrait of Dorothea Meyer, née Kannengiesser 1516 by Holbein the younger http://www.wga.hu/art/h/holbein/hans_y/1518/3meyer2.jpg Good luck Annette Thanks! I hadn't gotten that far yet. My thanks to all who answered, this list rocks! Kate McClure Off to make some tassels . . . _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 19:49:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8RNnDAr015244 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:49:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8RNmJwk001530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:48:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RNmEEu072266; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:48:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.204]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8RNmD9W072166 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:48:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cinbarnes@gmail.com) Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z3so1316344nzf for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=JK1xMuD9aXKihndVQ6nMjAiQjlTGxPersjbAztw/7iOhxfPIT+LQh6IwNrreJ+JJURsV0elArwLevvt2kKQmMjdn/WLtiYfVN0Z9wiDGro5MebivueUIxa1rC+tYXV32UqxIpBzHyjczqf16F0b1LkW/9AEh/X4sBjXOb0D2p2I= Received: by 10.36.157.6 with SMTP id f6mr2846186nze; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.80.1 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700 From: Cin To: h-cost Subject: re: [h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8RNmD9W072166 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Beee-zarre. "Archaeology" magazine july/aug 05 issue has the prelim results from the current dig in Florence. I think you'll find some of the hands-on forensic evidence a given by the Italian archaeologists to be "just a little" different. I'll cite all of the Eleanora's health tidbits from the article "Secrets of the Medici": "When we found Eleanora's box, we found that though no soft tissue was preserved. the bones were in good condition. [Aside on the historical record elided.] She was pregnant most of her adult life and her skeleton showed it. Every birth is a trauma to the mother's pelvis and leaves it's mark. In Eleanora's case the bones that come together were extremely rough and irregular. She was a small woman, and everytime she had a child there was damage to the bones, followed by regrowth and remodeling of them. And the back of her pelvis, which is normally quite angular was flattened by the many children coming down the birth canal." "All those pregnancies, during which the calcium is leached from the mother for the bone development of the fetus, had had a serious effect on Eleanora's teeth. She had lost several and others were abcessed." There is much, much more in the article about Eleanora, Cosimo, even some light on the great debate as to whether or not Cosimo killed his own son Cardinal Giovanni in grief over younger son Garzia's murder. (I wont spoil the plot. You can read it yourself.) The 5th Medici exhumed in this year's dig was Gian Gastone di Medici, the last Medici Duke. He was found w all his grave goods intact, tho the tomb was disturbed in the 1966 flood. --cin Cynthia Barnes CinBarnes@gmail.com From: Beth and Bob Matney Subject: [h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo To: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20050927142453.02ba97a0@mail.alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Interesting forensic info. "His forensic investigation revealed that Cosimo I's wife Eleonora da Toledo (1522-1562), beautifully portrayed by Agnolo Bronzino in a painting on display at the National Gallery in Prague, was five feet tall (1.58 meter), had a protruding chin, twisted legs, suffered from toothache and had shin splints, caused by an inflammation of the outer layer of the bone that occurs often during the later stages of syphilis. "However, the portrait shows a beautiful lady, and comparison with the skull reveals that the painting is rather realistic, except for the chin. The artist portrayed her from above, using a perspective trick. In this way the chin appears more regular," Rollo said. " "Renaissance Painters "Corrected" Portrait Features" May 10, 2005 http://www.sgallery.net/news/05_2005/10.php _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 21:00:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8S10fuU016134 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8S0xuMG014261 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:59:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S0xoYk010070; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.193]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S0xlOb009970 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:59:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s9so516101wxc for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=abnGBeqHofqkRVEEXNIQtVtjp1S7ue8PXWvB9dEoEkvLegZsKYw5WmN++MTGPpgiY0WsaiJ4B1c/DyVfJiDMdHJT/vt4+OP/cP7KNEpnxJNFWEgOXVLudZjgMfWaOtyGqbZpTCLHAXbnPksGsEHu/obxTEGc2gTAgfpirnXr/rU= Received: by 10.70.113.7 with SMTP id l7mr3263543wxc; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.73.7 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1905092717591911d77c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:59:41 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8S0xlOb009970 Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Fencing (was: ) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that both you and Jean are right Wendy. I was very briefly in the SCA ~4-5 years ago and went to a single rapier practice. I suspect it varies region to region, but I was not terribly impressed with what I saw, mostly because I was able to hit the marshal, repeatedly, with only 1 year of modern foil fencing under my belt :P I'm only speaking of rapier however - I never tried heavy fighting and know little about it. To bring the conversation back to costume, I'm considering making myself a fencing doublet similar to the ones in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion, but using linen canvas rather than leather for economy. I want to make a few alterations of overlap and padding to match the safety features of a modern fencing jacket but otherwise stick with a period look and feel (all natural fibers, late 16th/early 17th c. silhouette). Has anyone tried this before? Allison T. > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:41:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: Wendy Colbert > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > <33470353.1127857303332.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Rapier (or fencing) in the SCA runs the gamut from those who fence in a style close to modern sport fencing to those who are fairly serious researchers of period techniques of the 15th through 16th C through translation and redaction of period manuals. > > Wendy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean Waddie > Sent: Sep 27, 2005 5:35 PM > To: Historical Costume > Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? > > The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have > their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society > chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might > find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that > is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA "fencing", but I'm not > sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. > > Jean > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 21:00:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8S10fRD016135 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8S0xuQ0014260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:59:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S0xoZB010071; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:59:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.197]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S0xldE009965 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:59:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from athurman@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h29so356922wxd for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=abnGBeqHofqkRVEEXNIQtVtjp1S7ue8PXWvB9dEoEkvLegZsKYw5WmN++MTGPpgiY0WsaiJ4B1c/DyVfJiDMdHJT/vt4+OP/cP7KNEpnxJNFWEgOXVLudZjgMfWaOtyGqbZpTCLHAXbnPksGsEHu/obxTEGc2gTAgfpirnXr/rU= Received: by 10.70.113.7 with SMTP id l7mr3263543wxc; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.73.7 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:59:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d21ac1905092717591911d77c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:59:41 -0400 From: "A. Thurman" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8S0xldE009965 Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Fencing (was: ) X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think that both you and Jean are right Wendy. I was very briefly in the SCA ~4-5 years ago and went to a single rapier practice. I suspect it varies region to region, but I was not terribly impressed with what I saw, mostly because I was able to hit the marshal, repeatedly, with only 1 year of modern foil fencing under my belt :P I'm only speaking of rapier however - I never tried heavy fighting and know little about it. To bring the conversation back to costume, I'm considering making myself a fencing doublet similar to the ones in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion, but using linen canvas rather than leather for economy. I want to make a few alterations of overlap and padding to match the safety features of a modern fencing jacket but otherwise stick with a period look and feel (all natural fibers, late 16th/early 17th c. silhouette). Has anyone tried this before? Allison T. > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:41:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00) > From: Wendy Colbert > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: > <33470353.1127857303332.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Rapier (or fencing) in the SCA runs the gamut from those who fence in a style close to modern sport fencing to those who are fairly serious researchers of period techniques of the 15th through 16th C through translation and redaction of period manuals. > > Wendy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean Waddie > Sent: Sep 27, 2005 5:35 PM > To: Historical Costume > Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? > > The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have > their own style of fighting which has developed from what the society > chose as safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might > find some individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that > is not mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA "fencing", but I'm not > sure where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. > > Jean > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 21:30:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8S1U1rP016564 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:30:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8S1TQNK016826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:29:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S1TPmN024505; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:29:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail.floodcity.net (mail.floodcity.net [198.93.208.40]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S1TMK9024489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:29:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from basyefelton@floodcity.net) Received: from dialup-0259.floodcity.net ([198.93.212.5]:1415 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mail.floodcity.net with esmtp id 1EKQlA-0006rS-O4 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:29:25 -0400 Message-ID: <4339F1F0.5090001@floodcity.net> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:29:20 -0400 From: Kitty Felton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Current day fashion magazines References: <004201c5c0ac$129045c0$6400a8c0@Penny> <3Jbr0vCmWcNDJwAj@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3Jbr0vCmWcNDJwAj@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Jean Waddie wrote: > None! If I'm travelling by train or plane I get Marie-Claire or Red, > and I get really fed up of reading the good articles at the front, and > then having to pay for, and lug around, all the > fashion/make-up/food/interiors/travel which doesn't interest me at all. > Wish you could just buy it in sections. > > Jean you may not be able to buy it in sections, but you don't have to lug it around, I'd rip it out if I'm not interested in it. LOL Marie-Claire? I thought that was for teenyboppers. LOL _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Tue Sep 27 22:20:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8S2Jx9E017371 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:20:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8S2JPpf021093 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:19:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S2JMkf048056; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:19:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.36.83]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8S2JIqR047987 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:19:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nicolaa@rogers.com) Received: (qmail 25768 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2005 02:19:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=aZ/TV1abruXzhMP5htSBsepu2sRhg3ZzOzJre1/CVoUUmTJJHuTVqtzNhYy+maPsfWIqcbCLmJ2gYcBlos6LUEb3W1eoGQCeSie+ZQKE0exNi86Agi1YUiKse3+i0c/9uG3rikCRp0RBCM0gjw+aMyB6SkHZUZvJZykc7vQa018= ; Received: from unknown (HELO g5e4d0) (nicolaa@rogers.com@70.27.127.29 with login) by smtp105.rog.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 2005 02:19:11 -0000 Message-ID: <006501c5c3d3$0539ff90$1d7f1b46@g5e4d0> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac1905092705526f71b3fd@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: playing in period societies? Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:19:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Greetings-- > The SCA in general does not do period fighting techniques, they have their > own style of fighting which has developed from what the society chose as > safety precautions (rattan weapons, full armour). You might find some > individuals in some areas exploring the old manuals, but that is not > mainstream for the SCA. There is also SCA "fencing", but I'm not sure > where that lies between period techniques and modern sport fencing. It's becoming more and more common to study period fighting techniques with the rise of some of the tournament societies and the introduction of "Historical Combat Studies" as an officially-recognized thing. Some of the learned techniques are creeping into regular SCA armored combat, particularly in certain tournament styles. It's still not the focus of the SCA, but it's no longer an oddity. Many of the SCA fencers have been looking at the period rapier manuals for some time now, more so in some regions than others. SCA fencing has been evolving further and further from modern sport fencing over the years. Many SCA kingdoms no longer use epees at all, going exclusively to schlager blades and reproduction weapons. Susan _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 04:18:16 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8S8IFkg017503 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 04:18:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8S8Hhoh047075 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S8Hcdt090041; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:17:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com (bay0-smtp07.bay0.hotmail.com [65.54.234.158]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8S8HaC9090010 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 02:17:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from saragracetk@msn.com) Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [71.35.65.29] X-Originating-Email: [saragracetk@msn.com] Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([71.35.65.29]) by BAY0-SMTP07.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 01:17:30 -0700 Message-ID: <433A5198.7010209@msn.com> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 01:17:28 -0700 From: WickedFrau User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2005 08:17:30.0927 (UTC) FILETIME=[1234FBF0:01C5C405] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO This one: http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H5RT Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" > > >> Anyone know what that is drooping in the front part of her dress? > > > Uh, sorry, which image are you asking a question about? > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 06:27:44 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SARgfe017018 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:27:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SAR8Mp070842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 04:27:09 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SAR6XE034215; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 04:27:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay20-dav3.bay20.hotmail.com [64.4.54.183]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SAR1FJ034174 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 04:27:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 03:26:56 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 207.68.60.29 by BAY20-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:26:56 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [207.68.60.29] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <7d21ac1905092717591911d77c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Fencing (was: ) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:26:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:26:53 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2005 10:26:56.0443 (UTC) FILETIME=[26D0B0B0:01C5C417] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8SARgfe017018 Status: RO I made mine from wool, with a heavyweight cotton lining, after making sure the combo passed the "punch" test (repeated stabs from a broken blade). ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Thurman To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Fencing (was: ) I think that both you and Jean are right Wendy. To bring the conversation back to costume, I'm considering making myself a fencing doublet similar to the ones in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion, but using linen canvas rather than leather for economy. I want to make a few alterations of overlap and padding to match the safety features of a modern fencing jacket but otherwise stick with a period look and feel (all natural fibers, late 16th/early 17th c. silhouette). Has anyone tried this before? Allison T. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 08:34:43 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SCYgTX021857 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:34:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SCXmu8081791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:33:48 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SCXghe082879; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:33:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:root@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SCXbUi082844 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:33:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from robin@shell.nightowl.net) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (IDENT:robin@shell.nightowl.net [209.176.170.30]) by shell.nightowl.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26414 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:56:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:56:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These? In-Reply-To: <4339B259.5010406@reddawn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO On Tue, 27 Sep 2005, Dawn wrote: > McClure, Kate wrote: > > > The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his > > third page, seventh image down. > > They look like tassels to me. I'm not a religious iconography expert, > but I bet she's supposed to be Mary Magdalen, and that would be Mary > in the black robes and white headdress. No idea who the third woman in > back is. I wouldn't count on her clothing being too accurate. It looks > a little "exotic" for the time and place of the painting. By > comparison, there's the donors in front in the fur-lined robes. Yes, that's the Magdalen, frequently painted in this period with flamboyant clothing, often with unusual / exotic / "foreign" details that viewers would understand were not representative of real clothing. The third woman in the back is the "third Mary" often shown in scenes of the Crucifixion and related events. --Robin _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 09:48:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SDmMmh023347 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:48:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SDlZxr087234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:47:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SDlWvC020314; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:47:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SDlTjT020284 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:47:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) X-ORBL: [69.107.91.247] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-91-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.247]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SDlJ5u060108; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:47:24 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:47:12 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] living history questions X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There has been a change in the leadership of a living history program I am in. The new person in charge wants revive the program, which has almost become depopulated, and to make us look and act like a real living history program. I am assuming that a higher standard of authenticity in costuming will help both to attract new people and to improve things generally, but I'm a costumer. My questions: What do you look for in a living history program you're considering joining? What, besides the fact that it's a time period you're interested in, would attract you to such a program and, time permitting, make you want to come play? The new person in charge has specified two levels of participation, one full-time and one part-time. We will have a core of regulars, and room for drop-ins who don't have the time nor the inclination to make a full-time commitment. And he's allowing for days core people have to miss. How authentic to the period should the costumes be at first? We have several male characters who are wearing OK-looking generic working class clothing from our period, and about three women in garments that are about right for the year we've chosen (1901). Should we go easy on the authenticity at first, and try to raise the standards later, or should we change to the higher standards now, and try to raise the few older members up to them? What is the best way to tell people who have been doing the program since it began, but whose standards of authentic costuming are not what the new person in charge wants them to be, that they have to meet higher standards now - if the new person in charge hasn't been in the program as long as they have? The same question goes for me, the new costume mistress for the program. My own solution would be to ask that when an objectionable garment wears out it should be replaced by a better one. But I'm a volunteer, as are all the participants, so the question becomes a delicate one to ask. Which 'cheats' are considered acceptable and which are not? Some of the male characters are played by women with long hair, and they have always braided it and let it hang down their backs. By 1901 pigtails were out of use by working class men, even sailors. Should we insist that these women, who aren't going to extremes to fool anyone but who do act like guys, do something about the hair and obvious female anatomy? (BTW, the program's female characters have always worn corsets, or at least looked like they were.) I have just begun an inventory of the stock of costumes this program has, and have compiled a list of "over my dead body" items I don't ever want to see used in a program I'm costume mistress of. There's also a soft list of things, like some of the mens' shirts, which read more like the 1850s than like 1901, which I'd like to phase out or, if currently not in use, to not issue to anyone. The new person in charge also wants a list of costumes we need in stock. I'm currently talking to him about getting participants to make their own costumes, to save program budget money we no longer have. I have rashly volunteered to help all participants do this (and the program's historian has already roped me into a two-person shirt-sewing session with her). CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 12:03:24 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SG3OPw025311 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SG2LvL003802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:02:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SG2GoY017288; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:02:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav5.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.77]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SG2A2i017111 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:02:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:02:05 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:02:04 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:02:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2005 16:02:05.0103 (UTC) FILETIME=[F882B3F0:01C5C445] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm looking for quick how-to guide or tutorial about tambour embroidery (the type of embroidery done with a small hook, looks like a crochet chain stitch, was very popular during the Empire period). I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide would be fine... Thanks. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 12:24:22 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SGOMcP025560 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:24:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SGNhZH006505 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:23:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SGNe3p034807; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:23:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SGNZxV034624 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:23:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:23:28 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:23:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <6.2.1.2.0.20050924161711.01c9b7b0@pop.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:18:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2005 16:23:28.0035 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5329730:01C5C448] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "WickedFrau" >>> Anyone know what that is drooping in the front part of her dress? > This one: > http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H5RT You mean the red fabric? She's got the left shoulder of her "overdress" undone, or maybe she simply let it fall, so we can see the white dress underneath. I doesn't appear like it would reach all the way to her shoulder, but I think there's a tiny perspective problem here... What *I'm* wondering, is how do they keep those high belts ON! They must be constantly trying to fall down... I'd like to see the back of the gown... *sigh*... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 13:18:50 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SHInNO026177 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:18:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SHHqg5013716 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:17:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SHHkNq079314; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:17:47 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SHHftQ079170 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:17:43 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.179.212]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050928171735.RUCQ6445.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:17:35 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050928113916.02ba8100@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:15:53 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200509281623.j8SGNgoQ034835@net.indra.com> References: <200509281623.j8SGNgoQ034835@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Yes, it is interesting the different views published of "objective facts". Bizarre? Unfortunately, it seems such a common problem in research. To bring this back to textiles and costume: We were unable to make it to Scandinavia on this trip (just not enough time), so we went to the UK again. Saw a nice sprang "sock" (Roman period) in York and have a pretty good photo of it, a silk headcovering (Viking) and wool tunic (Coptic) in Cambridge, among other things. Had a very nice time visiting and comparing notes with various "living history" reenactment groups that we met while there. Beth At 11:23 AM 9/28/2005, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700 >From: Cin >Subject: re: [h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics > >Beee-zarre. "Archaeology" magazine july/aug 05 issue has the prelim >results from the current dig in Florence. I think you'll find some of >the hands-on forensic evidence a given by the Italian archaeologists >to be "just a little" different. I'll cite all of the Eleanora's >health tidbits from the article "Secrets of the Medici": _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 13:50:29 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SHoSNi026522 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:50:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SHnng7017605 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:49:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SHnigl005081; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:49:44 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.200.171]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8SHnebh004955 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:49:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from emeraldepona@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 58577 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Sep 2005 17:49:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=mu+4kgaIX5cmnptFbLp/Vi9b7nbVJFq2QlS46o4BmuGKx0lrh6g0xreghLh2gr4hSBaC+v9rTxhu7xcUTIbdxrxoB0bxBYp8K2JuD+uVgUBNZ6sdmg+2Ts5IB6gDI36afvQ/ivQQgbcoTTGP5AP7b3ceXmutLjAIyXzfaxelJyI= ; Message-ID: <20050928174935.58575.qmail@web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [155.91.19.73] by web31008.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:49:35 PDT Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20050928113916.02ba8100@mail.alltel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] A-S/Viking tag - Re: Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Picture(s)??? Did you say picture(s)??? I don't suppose you would post them? :-) Chris G. Beth and Bob Matney wrote: Yes, it is interesting the different views published of "objective facts". Bizarre? Unfortunately, it seems such a common problem in research. To bring this back to textiles and costume: We were unable to make it to Scandinavia on this trip (just not enough time), so we went to the UK again. Saw a nice sprang "sock" (Roman period) in York and have a pretty good photo of it, a silk headcovering (Viking) and wool tunic (Coptic) in Cambridge, among other things. Had a very nice time visiting and comparing notes with various "living history" reenactment groups that we met while there. Beth At 11:23 AM 9/28/2005, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700 >From: Cin >Subject: re: [h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 13:55:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SHtPcl026625 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:55:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SHsuYS018264 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:54:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SHss8v009441; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:54:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SHsnio009358 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:54:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8SHsmZf000761 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:54:48 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.132 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <52093.12.34.14.132.1127930086.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [h-cost] living history questions From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Carolyn asked, > What do you look for in a living history program you're considering > joining? What, besides the fact that it's a time period you're interested > in, would attract you to such a program and, time permitting, make you > want to come play? I would consider whether or not the program allows me to do what I want to do. Personally I like to demonstrate a skill and talk to visitors about what I am doing. There may possibly be some discussion of who I am portraying (general category, not a historic character) but usually not in first person. Also from a personal viewpoint, I enjoy some people who do first person and interacting with them to some extent. But I have experienced the sort who are overbearing, set on "acting" and treat other interpretors as extras. (insulting, etc.) If that was going on in the program, I would lose interest. Other people might enjoy that kind of conflict. > How authentic to the period should the costumes be at first? We have > several male characters who are wearing OK-looking generic working class > clothing from our period, and about three women in garments that are about > right for the year we've chosen (1901). Should we go easy on the > authenticity at first, and try to raise the standards later, or should we > change to the higher standards now, and try to raise the few older members > up to them? I think a change n the program is a good opportunity to introduce better authenticity standards. People will be making or buying new thing all the time. Encourage the highest authenticity that's feasible, and work on raising the older members to the new standard. Thinking in terms of being new to the group, I would be very annoyed if I was told my (about to be made or purchased) things were ok, and then told later that they were not. ESPECIALLY if someone knew all along they were not right but did not say anything! > What is the best way to tell people who have been doing the program since > it began, but whose standards of authentic costuming are not what the new > person in charge wants them to be, that they have to meet higher standards > now - if the new person in charge hasn't been in the program as long as > they have? The same question goes for me, the new costume mistress for > the program. My own solution would be to ask that when an objectionable > garment wears out it should be replaced by a better one. But I'm a > volunteer, as are all the participants, so the question becomes a delicate > one to ask. It's a tough call, depending on the motivation and resources of the existing people to update their clothing. There will always be the types who want to wear what has been accepted for the last 50 years.... I also don't agree on the "when it wears out" school of thought. I would make categories based on the complexity/expense of each garment. A pair of gloves, for example, might last a long time, but would be easy to replace. That should be done by the next season or within a month, whatever works. A tailored coat is expensive and might have a "grandfather" period of a year or two. An "old" volunteer might have something incorrect in his wardrobe that only comes out once or twice a year, and would take eons to wear out. Also have you considered if someone decides to give or loan their old, incorrect item to a new person in the group? Also as far as the time to replace/wearing out - how visible is the item? Say a different period skirt worn underneath the correct skirt or an earlier chemise (if either is appropriate). If you can't see the difference when the person is dressed, how soon must it be replaced? (Unless the person is doing a demo on the layers worn under an outfit of the time, of course.) > Which 'cheats' are considered acceptable and which are not? Some of the > male characters are played by women with long hair, and they have always > braided it and let it hang down their backs. By 1901 pigtails were out of > use by working class men, even sailors. Should we insist that these > women, who aren't going to extremes to fool anyone but who do act like > guys, do something about the hair and obvious female anatomy? (BTW, > the program's female characters have always worn corsets, or at least looked > like they were.) Yes, women playing men (or vice versa) should make an effort to look the part. For women, put up the hair under a hat, take off the makeup and nail polish (yes, I've seen this!) bind and pad to look like a heavy guy rather than a skinny guy with breasts. Also pencil in the eyebrows a bit if the woman plucks them - men don't pluck! It's not necessary to add 5-o'clock shadow and a prosthesis, just hide the things that are obviously female. > I have just begun an inventory of the stock of costumes this program has, > and have compiled a list of "over my dead body" items I don't ever want to > see used in a program I'm costume mistress of. There's also a soft list > of things, like some of the mens' shirts, which read more like the 1850s than > like 1901, which I'd like to phase out or, if currently not in use, to not > issue to anyone. Great idea! For the shirts, how much of it shows? Are they wearing waistcoats and coats, or is the shirt fully exposed? > The new person in charge also wants a list of costumes we need in > stock. I'm currently talking to him about getting participants to make > their own costumes, to save program budget money we no longer have. I > have rashly volunteered to help all participants do this (and the program's > historian has already roped me into a two-person shirt-sewing session with > her). Also a good idea! There will be people complaining about "uniforms" and "cookie cutter" looks. Maybe they can clear their research with the committee before making something that is not within the new guidelines. I look forward to reading about your progress in this project! -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 15:10:01 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SJA1na027497 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:10:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SJ9HYC027362 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:09:17 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SJ9CEG065967; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:09:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.166]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SJ98iS065862 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:09:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.104]) by ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050928190901.VFVB18995.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:09:01 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050928134330.02a583e0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:08:11 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Beth and Bob Matney In-Reply-To: <200509281803.j8SI3FxS016218@net.indra.com> References: <200509281803.j8SI3FxS016218@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Re: A-S/Viking tag X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I don't think that I can post attachments to the list, but I'll be glad to send you (offline) any pictures that you are interested in. The sprang was on display at the Yorkshire Museum in York as well as a lot of other good stuff. The foot is missing but the rest was in pretty good shape. It dates from Late Roman period. I'll send it to you offline. The Viking head-covering (silk) was at the FitzWilliam in Cambridge. (AWESOME manuscript display, by the way) They do not allow photography. It was complete and in excellent condition. The book "Viking Age Headcoverings from Dublin" ISBN: 0954385551 has an excellent description and photos of the type. I just happen to have a piece of silk in my stash that matches very closely.... We were also at the West Stowe Anglo-Saxon Village and at Sutton Hoo (and other places). Beth At 01:03 PM 9/28/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT) >From: Chris >Subject: [h-cost] A-S/Viking tag - Re: Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics > >Picture(s)??? Did you say picture(s)??? I don't suppose you would post >them? > >:-) Chris G. > >Beth and Bob Matney wrote: >We were unable to make it to Scandinavia on this trip (just not enough >time), so we went to the UK again. Saw a nice sprang "sock" (Roman period) >in York and have a pretty good photo of it, a silk headcovering (Viking) >and wool tunic (Coptic) in Cambridge, among other things. Had a very nice >time visiting and comparing notes with various "living history" reenactment >groups that we met while there. > >Beth _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 15:58:54 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SJwsid028160 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:58:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SJwDhO033565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:58:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SJwA4d004711; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:58:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from eastrmmtao05.cox.net (eastrmmtao05.cox.net [68.230.240.34]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SJw4pT004601 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:58:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from vmaa2@cox.net) Received: from VMAAHQ ([68.225.179.207]) by eastrmmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with ESMTP id <20050928195756.FULU28234.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@VMAAHQ> for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:57:56 -0400 From: "Linda Rice" To: "'Historical Costume'" Subject: RE: [h-cost] living history questions Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:57:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c5c466$e67df590$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8SJw4pT004601 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Hi Carolyn~! It sounds like you have a pretty big task ahead, but the good news is, it *can* be done, and the program will be better for it in the long run. Our group did the same sort of thing several years ago, and it's been a long growth process. We did lose some people, but the ones who stayed are happy that we did it. It sounds like you are blessed with a program director who has a vision and a plan, and he's looking to delegate the work to get it done. Good on him! He really needs the trust and support of the remaining core volunteers. I'll answer your questions below: -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:47 AM There has been a change in the leadership of a living history program I am in. The new person in charge wants revive the program, which has almost become depopulated, and to make us look and act like a real living history program. I am assuming that a higher standard of authenticity in costuming will help both to attract new people and to improve things generally, but I'm a costumer. My questions: What do you look for in a living history program you're considering joining? What, besides the fact that it's a time period you're interested in, would attract you to such a program and, time permitting, make you want to come play? ## For me, it's all about the history, regardless of the who/when/where. I want the feeling of complete immersion, and I want to try and convey that to the public, even if only just a fraction of it crosses over. To me, it's magic! Having accurate clothing plays a big part in recreating this feeling. Making sure that everyone knows the whole story of the place or events, and is able to talk about it also is a huge part of the picture. The new person in charge has specified two levels of participation, one full-time and one part-time. We will have a core of regulars, and room for drop-ins who don't have the time nor the inclination to make a full-time commitment. And he's allowing for days core people have to miss. ##This is an excellent plan, imo. Always remember that this is a volunteer outfit! Appreciate them for what they give, and don't make them feel bad for what they can't give. Most of us would give our eye teeth to be able to "play" all day long, but Real Life Comes First. I've seen program directors get too caught up in looking good for their own bosses and end up treating the nice people very poorly. Then in a few months they really panic when they look around and realize they have no more volunteers. How authentic to the period should the costumes be at first? We have several male characters who are wearing OK-looking generic working class clothing from our period, and about three women in garments that are about right for the year we've chosen (1901). Should we go easy on the authenticity at first, and try to raise the standards later, or should we change to the higher standards now, and try to raise the few older members up to them? ## This is a really tough one. My experience has been to just make the standards *now*, and have everyone understand why you are doing this. Yes, some people are not going to like it, but some people are going to rejoice! I bet if you talk to your program director, he'll back you up on the new rules. After all, it's *his* vision! What is the best way to tell people who have been doing the program since it began, but whose standards of authentic costuming are not what the new person in charge wants them to be, that they have to meet higher standards now - if the new person in charge hasn't been in the program as long as they have? The same question goes for me, the new costume mistress for the program. My own solution would be to ask that when an objectionable garment wears out it should be replaced by a better one. But I'm a volunteer, as are all the participants, so the question becomes a delicate one to ask. ## This is a delicate problem indeed. If you think you have some folks who are going to really balk or get sniffy, then they will need some extra TLC. But the reality is, things like this are just a fact of life. How many times have you had a job where all of a sudden you get a new boss, half your age and full of newfangled ideas? It's a tough adjustment, but most people handle it just fine eventually. Either that, or they move on to softer pastures. Don't let the few who *might* resent changes cause you or your boss to hold back from what you know to be right. Who knows, they just might surprise you! You said that the program is in a low spot now anyway. If so, I bet the troops all know it and are ready for something new. So, make new standards and recruit new people! Which 'cheats' are considered acceptable and which are not? Some of the male characters are played by women with long hair, and they have always braided it and let it hang down their backs. By 1901 pigtails were out of use by working class men, even sailors. Should we insist that these women, who aren't going to extremes to fool anyone but who do act like guys, do something about the hair and obvious female anatomy? (BTW, the program's female characters have always worn corsets, or at least looked like they were.) ## I firmly believe that if a person is going to attempt a cross-gender interpretation, they need to work extra hard to pull it off. It can be done successfully, but it takes conscious effort to do so. Yes, I would have these women dress their hair, clothes and accessories to reflect the average male of the period. If they can adopt male mannerisms, more the better. This also applies to women dressing age and class appropriately. Too often I've seen someone get caught up in some romantic notion and spend a small fortune on an outfit that she should never be in for the circumstances she's portraying. You will also have to enforce eyeglasses, shoes, hairstyles and jewelry. Lucky for you, 1901 era is easier than many. Always remember that old adage "The devil is in the details", because it really is the little things that make all the difference. I have just begun an inventory of the stock of costumes this program has, and have compiled a list of "over my dead body" items I don't ever want to see used in a program I'm costume mistress of. There's also a soft list of things, like some of the mens' shirts, which read more like the 1850s than like 1901, which I'd like to phase out or, if currently not in use, to not issue to anyone. ## Great idea! Cull out the rotten apples first! Perhaps there is another historic site near you that these items would be more appropriate for? If so, I'm sure they would appreciate the donation. Stick to your plan of having only correct things at your site. The new person in charge also wants a list of costumes we need in stock. I'm currently talking to him about getting participants to make their own costumes, to save program budget money we no longer have. I have rashly volunteered to help all participants do this (and the program's historian has already roped me into a two-person shirt-sewing session with her). ## For those who are only occasional volunteers it is a good idea to have some loaner stuff available. It's impossible to try and have something for -every- body, but you can make an attempt anyway. Having the core people make their own stuff does go a long way towards a feeling of inclusion and ownership of the project. First thing is to compile a list of accepted patterns, fabrics, trims, accessories, reading list, etc and have it readily available, both online and in paper, if possible. It'll take some time to compile, but it will be so worth it in the end. If you can, make a fabric swatch book. (This is a good project to delegate to an assistant if you have one) I've found that new people really benefit from seeing examples of what they can have. Make the swatches available for check-out so that people can borrow them to take shopping if they want. It wouldn't hurt to also list some of the "don't go there" stuff, and why it's off-limits. As far as having sewing sessions, this is a wonderful thing! Are there any young ladies who would like to join in? (This is a great way for older Girl Scouts to get all kinds of service badges). Heck, why not do it during open hours? Having somebody(s) sitting on the porch with a sewing basket would be absolutely appropriate. I'm always amazed by the number of people who are amazed at ME when I'm just hand sewing! Is there an appropriate machine in the house? If so, use it! Doing period things in a period manner is what it's all about! Hope this helps, ::Linda:: _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 16:20:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SKK8VH028427 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:20:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SKIneg035843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:18:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SKIdwI020570; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:18:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mx.aol.com [205.188.144.208]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SKITOF020301 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:18:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AlbertCat@aol.com) Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.1de.447cc3d6 (16335) for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Message-ID: <1de.447cc3d6.306c5480@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:18:08 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6036 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-DCC-Rhyolite-Metrics: net.indra.com 101; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/28/2005 12:03:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, audreybmorin2@hotmail.com writes: > I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply > instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide > would be fine... > Have you tried your local library for a book on it? A big "embroidery bible" may include such things. I know....so low tech...but you may have better luck there than on the Internet. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 17:26:13 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SLQCiZ029059 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:26:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SLPQLd045462 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:25:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SLPFYs073452; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:25:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay106-dav18.bay106.hotmail.com [65.54.161.90]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SLPCOu073340 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:25:14 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from audreybmorin2@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:25:07 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 65.54.161.202 by BAY106-DAV18.phx.gbl with DAV; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:25:06 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.161.202] X-Originating-Email: [audreybmorin2@hotmail.com] X-Sender: audreybmorin2@hotmail.com From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" To: "Historical Costume" References: <1de.447cc3d6.306c5480@aol.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:25:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2670 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2005 21:25:07.0069 (UTC) FILETIME=[191002D0:01C5C473] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >> I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply >> instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide >> would be fine... >> > Have you tried your local library for a book on it? A big "embroidery > bible" > may include such things. I know....so low tech...but you may have better > luck > there than on the Internet. Libraries around here are... well... full of cooking and gardening books, but not much else. Ah, and candle and soapmaking too. I'd have to go to the Central library, but all I wanted was a quick look :-) Not worth the travel time unless I actually plan to *do* some tambour embroidery at some point :-) BUT you've just reminded me that I've got an Encyclopedia of Needlework... there's about 2 pages on tambour embroidery, not very clear, but better than nothing! _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Wed Sep 28 18:07:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8SM7MK7029388 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:07:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8SM6dhg050863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:06:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SM6bpL005330; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:06:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.206]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8SM5g6L004551 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:05:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s11so351411wxc for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:05:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ACUEFAtk05uIf+BKN6j7oo6/tJQIVOZIwDSPX55FraYCTWSiTHUog1aBgoFapzTKwko60S9H8N0Sm5Nb8F4Ab/GgJ2eiop+lkK0m63OAMye0BtgegcWSlZa0Kzlc2FtmwjS7AcelCJbyJhcPtyT0uuTzt8VIkBTAsKNudUfQGQg= Received: by 10.70.29.3 with SMTP id c3mr147177wxc; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.31.10 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c05092815056af4fbef@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:05:36 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <1de.447cc3d6.306c5480@aol.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8SM5g6L004551 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO HI, Audrey, I took a class on tambour last fall. It seemed that the most important thing to remember is that the fabric MUST, MUST, *MUST* be taut all around, more so than any other embroidery you've ever done. You will work with one hand above and one hand below your fabric. You load up your thread with the beads and you crochet a chain stitch through the fabric, with the beads underneath. Sounds simple, eh? NO, the beads try to fall out as you work, the hook - as small as it is - tries to stick into the fabric always in the wrong place. I spent the day learning, the evening practicing and at bedtime, I put the project away and never went back to it. Now, if I had given it a fair chance I might be still doing the work. Others in the class did some lovely work. I'm pretty clever with my hands; I can learn things fairly easily, but not tambour work. I think I went too quickly from working with the thread to the beaded thread --- trying to run before I really got that balance thing worked out while I was walking. It was all me who couldn't get it right; the teacher was good and patient. My friend got quite fast with her work andd swears by tambour for both embroidery and for beading, but I will continue to slog away and bead with a needle the old-fashioned way. Lacis sells the tambour hooks and I'm pretty sure they have books on the subject. Maybe check with their website and then go looking elsewhere for used copies of the books??? Best wishes, LynnD On 9/28/05, Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote: > > >> I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply > >> instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide > >> would be fine... > >> > > Have you tried your local library for a book on it? A big "embroidery > > bible" > > may include such things. I know....so low tech...but you may have better > > luck > > there than on the Internet. > > Libraries around here are... well... full of cooking and gardening books, > but not much else. Ah, and candle and soapmaking too. I'd have to go to the > Central library, but all I wanted was a quick look :-) Not worth the travel > time unless I actually plan to *do* some tambour embroidery at some point > :-) > > BUT you've just reminded me that I've got an Encyclopedia of Needlework... > there's about 2 pages on tambour embroidery, not very clear, but better than > nothing! > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 09:25:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TDPdfM002130 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:25:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TBOFOD018795 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:24:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TBO83L056471; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:24:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net (smtp3.suscom.net [64.78.119.250]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TBO1Cj056393 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:24:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from goofy1@suscom.net) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5989E2101C0 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.suscom.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.suscom.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 32216-03-3 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stuckis (ip194.182.235.64.susc.suscom.net [64.235.182.194]) by smtp3.suscom.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C9C5D2101BA for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:23:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012801c5c4e8$336dae50$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" To: "Historical Costume" References: <20050927054835.60003.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050929111719.01ce02f0@127.0.0.1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:23:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at suscom.net X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:19 AM Subject: [h-cost] Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery > > I'm sorry to be so vague and forgetful, but recently someone posted a > lovely Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery site owned by a fellow h-cost > member. I thought I had it bookmarked, but cannot fins it anywhere. > Could someone please re-post. > > Thanks > > Suzi > > (I have 5 Tudor ladies to costume and bejewel) Was it www.sapphireandsage.com ? Even if it wasn't, it's a lovely site. ;-) Dianne > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 09:40:21 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TDeFdW002259 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:40:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TAK7Fa014062 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 04:20:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TAJv4O032035; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 04:19:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.198]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8TAJree031983 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 04:19:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 3968 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2005 10:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp808.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2005 10:19:47 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050929111719.01ce02f0@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:19:45 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke In-Reply-To: <20050927054835.60003.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20050927054835.60003.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm sorry to be so vague and forgetful, but recently someone posted a lovely Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery site owned by a fellow h-cost member. I thought I had it bookmarked, but cannot fins it anywhere. Could someone please re-post. Thanks Suzi (I have 5 Tudor ladies to costume and bejewel) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 09:49:05 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TDn4tM002427 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:49:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TDlvmi039745 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:47:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TDlpCc028642; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:47:51 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8TDlfQa028482 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:47:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from suzi@suziclarke.co.uk) Received: (qmail 88921 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2005 13:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO solena.btinternet.com) (c.l.clarke@81.154.234.17 with login) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2005 13:47:35 -0000 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050929144247.01d469b8@127.0.0.1> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:43:16 +0100 To: Historical Costume From: Suzi Clarke Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery In-Reply-To: <012801c5c4e8$336dae50$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> References: <20050927054835.60003.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20050929111719.01ce02f0@127.0.0.1> <012801c5c4e8$336dae50$c2b6eb40@Stuckis> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 12:23 29/09/2005, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- From: "Suzi Clarke" >To: "Historical Costume" >Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:19 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery > > >>I'm sorry to be so vague and forgetful, but recently someone posted >>a lovely Tudor/Elizabethan Jewellery site owned by a fellow h-cost >>member. I thought I had it bookmarked, but cannot fins it anywhere. >>Could someone please re-post. >>Thanks >>Suzi >>(I have 5 Tudor ladies to costume and bejewel) > >Was it www.sapphireandsage.com ? > >Even if it wasn't, it's a lovely site. ;-) That's the one - thank you kindly. Suzi _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 09:59:19 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TDxJ5Q002557 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:59:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TDwuPo041854 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:58:56 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TDwqAw035045; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:58:52 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from zenobia.reddawn.net (rrcs-67-52-227-84.west.biz.rr.com [67.52.227.84]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TDwmqf034953 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:58:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dawn@reddawn.net) Received: from [10.0.0.3] (unknown [10.0.0.3]) by zenobia.reddawn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4240D3C85D for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:58:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <433BF314.90503@reddawn.net> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:58:44 -0500 From: Dawn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Review? 'Visual History of Costume: 20th Century' X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Byrde, Penelope A VISUAL HISTORY OF COSTUME: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY Anyone have comments on this book? What are the illustrations like? I find it listed several places in bibliographies, but can't find a review or annotation describing it. I'm hoping it covers everyday dress of the early half of the century and not just 'fashion'. Has anyone seen it? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 10:10:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TEAKlB002664 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:10:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TE9eT4044759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:09:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TE9d9W042152; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:09:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from Bluejay.creighton.edu (Bluejay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TE9YLv042100 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:09:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu) Received: from exbe01.blue.jays.creighton.edu (exbe01.creighton.edu [147.134.2.111]) by Bluejay.creighton.edu (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24455 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:09:33 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Review? 'Visual History of Costume: 20th Century' Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:09:31 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [h-cost] Review? 'Visual History of Costume: 20th Century' Thread-Index: AcXE/fFfM6zrtVy2Qg29R2j2m8ZsYQAAMjpg From: "Abel, Cynthia" To: "Historical Costume" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8TE9YLv042100 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dawn: My public library has this book and I've seen it. Mostly, it uses either pics of actual costume, or portraits, or fashion plates, as I recall. But it isn't really a lot of ordinary everyday wear. For sources of that, try the reprints of catalogs like Sears. I believe it is Dover that has done reprints by decade(roughly)starting with 1909-1920 of catalog pages from mainly Sears, but supplementing them with some other catalogs, like Wards. Hope this helps. Cindy Abel -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Dawn Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:59 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Review? 'Visual History of Costume: 20th Century' Byrde, Penelope A VISUAL HISTORY OF COSTUME: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY Anyone have comments on this book? What are the illustrations like? I find it listed several places in bibliographies, but can't find a review or annotation describing it. I'm hoping it covers everyday dress of the early half of the century and not just 'fashion'. Has anyone seen it? Dawn _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 11:15:17 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TFFG3b003741 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:15:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TFEUe8055042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:14:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TFEOxL087869; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:14:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from imo-m15.mx.aol.com (imo-m15.mx.aol.com [64.12.138.205]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TFDuWW087442 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:14:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from AnnBWass@aol.com) Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-m15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r5.5.) id 6.190.492dfa43 (4222) for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Message-ID: <190.492dfa43.306d5ea9@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:13:45 EDT Subject: Re: [h-cost] Review? 'Visual History of Costume: 20th Century' To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 Security Edition for Windows sub 5200 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO In a message dated 9/29/2005 10:10:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, CynthiaAbel@creighton.edu writes: For sources of that, try the reprints of catalogs like Sears. I believe it is Dover that has done reprints by decade(roughly)starting with 1909-1920 of catalog pages from mainly Sears, but supplementing them with some other catalogs, like Wards. Even though they are not costume books per se, the Time-Life series on the decades of the 20th century are also good sources for "everyday" costume, lots and lots of photographs. Ann Wass _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 16:31:04 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TKV3oj010877 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:31:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TKUSlG097528 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:30:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TKUMiA078534; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:30:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net (ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net [166.102.165.170]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TKUHXu078383 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:30:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from bmatney@alltel.net) Received: from emachine_T4155.alltel.net ([162.40.180.42]) by ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net with ESMTP id <20050929203010.YOKV6445.ispmxmta09-srv.alltel.net@emachine_T4155.alltel.net> for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:30:10 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.0.20050929152839.02728ec0@mail.alltel.net> X-Sender: bmatney@mail.alltel.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:30:03 -0500 To: From: Beth and Bob Matney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [h-cost] Re: HELP! I need a substitute to teach at KWCS X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I have been requested to cross post this to the list. Hope that someone can help her out. Beth At 03:09 PM 9/29/2005, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:03:47 -0000 > From: "Maura Folsom" >Subject: HELP! I need a substitute to teach at KWCS > >I'm afraid that I'm not going to be able to teach at KWCS. I am >scheduled to teach two classes with 12th century focus - making court >dress (women and men) and women's court hairdressing, and one with a >14thc focus - making dagges based on the TExtiles and Clothing >artifacts. I need to find someone to cover these classes. Is there >anyone on this list who is going to be going who might be willing to >take over one or both of the classes? > >I'll be happy to send you the course materials and lecture notes. > >We've had a family emergency (my uncle is in the hospital, and may be >dying). My mother and grandmother are going up to Nova Scotia to see >him, which means that I will not have transportation, childcare, or >means to come (all money set aside for my trip is being spent for the >trip to see my uncle). They expect to be gone for a few weeks. > >Marguerie de Jauncourt _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 16:49:45 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TKnixs011186 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:49:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TKn7d7000175 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:49:07 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TKn2GF093218; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:49:03 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from captain.concentric.com (captain.concentric.com [207.155.252.157]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TKmjRu093011 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:48:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from jtknits@jtknits.cts.com) Received: (www@localhost) by captain.concentric.com id QAA25640; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:48:43 -0400 (EDT) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17] Message-ID: <200509292048.QAA25640@captain.concentric.com> From: Julie To: Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:48:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200509291800.j8TI0ARE027026@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8TKmjRu093011 Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I'm wondering just what *is* tambour embroidery. I have a series of needles in assorted sizes that I can put into a handle, run thread through the needle and up the hollow body of the handle and do what I was told was punch embroidery or Russian embroidery. I also have a tambour hook. It looks like a crochet hook on a solid wooden handle but has a vicious point on the head of it. I don't see where the thread would go with this one. I thought it was worked from the wrong side of the fabric and the thread (and beads) run across the front of the fabric. You make chain stitched on the wrong side that's facing you. Which is what? And is either one found before 1600? Thanks Julie _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 18:19:00 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TMIxGT013718 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:19:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TMIFdW010648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:18:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TMI7Iq059064; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:18:08 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from xproxy.gmail.com (xproxy.gmail.com [66.249.82.199]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TMI3nV058949 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:18:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lynndownward@gmail.com) Received: by xproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id s11so571957wxc for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:17:57 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WodWl8pOCg3xZ5PKood0XT/uSv0MTX0WhZYcc8hcZLMQO+J1Ljx8XBPd7h+PnzukJu86vQsRtxV/TxlImRltgQiVJc5MINMT7CmZ902avKMxe2Ljht5MNysZZaIcSQkSXWgU3Uc4pRsGIgB2SUhXeoYN5Y5mKrGTjL0I9mn3FEg= Received: by 10.70.100.17 with SMTP id x17mr650012wxb; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.31.10 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8296995c050929151733d432ce@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:17:57 -0700 From: Lynn Downward To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery In-Reply-To: <200509292048.QAA25640@captain.concentric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline References: <200509291800.j8TI0ARE027026@net.indra.com> <200509292048.QAA25640@captain.concentric.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id j8TMI3nV058949 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO And there's the thing, Julie. You're managing the fabric, placement of the "vicious hook" which is just big enough to get stuck on threads while going back through the fabric, the thread (separate from the hook) in your left hand, and the beads. that's what makes it so hard for my brain. I can't juggle all those things at once. You're right about the chain stitched on the wrong side of the fabric, which is facing you. You have the thread and most of the beads on top of the fabric and just the extra thread and some beads below while working. You learn with practice to rotate the hook "just right" so it gets through the fabric without catching, but it takes a bit of practice, like crochet with a fish hook. The size of the hook used is dependent on the weave of the ground cloth. We used a really tiny hook while working on netting; we used a larger one while working on linen and the largest size while working on osnaburg. Contrary to logic, neither the larger hook nor the smallest hook was easier to use. You know how one is taught to crochet using a large hook with fat yarn; that logic doesn't help here. i just reread what I wrote. Very negative. I had a terrible time with tambour. I was only one person in a class of 8-10; most everyone else managed to learn and enjoy the process. I only learned it. LynnD On 9/29/05, Julie wrote: > I'm wondering just what *is* tambour embroidery. I have a series of needles in assorted sizes that I can put into a handle, run thread through the needle and up the hollow body of the handle and do what I was told was punch embroidery or Russian embroidery. > > I also have a tambour hook. It looks like a crochet hook on a solid wooden handle but has a vicious point on the head of it. I don't see where the thread would go with this one. I thought it was worked from the wrong side of the fabric and the thread (and beads) run across the front of the fabric. You make chain stitched on the wrong side that's facing you. > > Which is what? And is either one found before 1600? > > Thanks > Julie > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Thu Sep 29 18:40:03 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8TMe295013986 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:40:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8TMdbGp014012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:39:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TMdZuR074914; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:39:35 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf2.socket.net (mf2.socket.net [216.106.88.48]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8TMd0Co074511 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:39:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf2.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D548017EEE for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:38:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:39:05 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <8296995c050929151733d432ce@mail.gmail.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO http://www.smallbusinessnotes.com/businesses/manufacturing/artscrafts/croche t.html http://www.answers.com/topic/tambour-lace?hl=crochet http://www.answers.com/topic/crochet De Books for me to order later. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931499446/103-5335735-5231047 ?v=glance http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/156158231X/103-5335735-5231047 ?v=glance _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 01:35:26 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8U5ZP7t020006 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:35:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8U5YmJC051640 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:34:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U5YgWV077578; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:34:42 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.207]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8U5Yd3n077530 for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:34:40 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net) Received: (qmail 30445 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2005 05:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lazear1) (cabbagerose@sbcglobal.net@67.118.230.145 with login) by smtp108.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 Sep 2005 05:34:33 -0000 Message-ID: <000801c5c580$5a2224c0$0701a8c0@lazear1> From: "Cabbage Rose Costumes" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509291800.j8TI0ARE027026@net.indra.com><200509292048.QAA25640@captain.concentric.com> <8296995c050929151733d432ce@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:32:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I didn't take a class, but did attempt to do some tambour using instructions from a book I purchased at Lacis. I too am usually adept at such work, good with my hands and patient at handwork. I found tambour exceedingly difficult, was very unhappy with my progress and eventually abandoned the project in favor of hand beading. I may try again, but it's really difficult, at least for me. It's oddly reassuring to hear a similar story. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes www.cabbagerosecostumes.com Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Downward" To: "Historical Costume" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery > And there's the thing, Julie. You're managing the fabric, placement of > the "vicious hook" which is just big enough to get stuck on threads > while going back through the fabric, the thread (separate from the > hook) in your left hand, and the beads. that's what makes it so hard > for my brain. I can't juggle all those things at once. You're right > about the chain stitched on the wrong side of the fabric, which is > facing you. You have the thread and most of the beads on top of the > fabric and just the extra thread and some beads below while working. > You learn with practice to rotate the hook "just right" so it gets > through the fabric without catching, but it takes a bit of practice, > like crochet with a fish hook. > > The size of the hook used is dependent on the weave of the ground > cloth. We used a really tiny hook while working on netting; we used a > larger one while working on linen and the largest size while working > on osnaburg. Contrary to logic, neither the larger hook nor the > smallest hook was easier to use. You know how one is taught to crochet > using a large hook with fat yarn; that logic doesn't help here. > > i just reread what I wrote. Very negative. I had a terrible time with > tambour. I was only one person in a class of 8-10; most everyone else > managed to learn and enjoy the process. I only learned it. > > LynnD > > On 9/29/05, Julie wrote: >> I'm wondering just what *is* tambour embroidery. I have a series of >> needles in assorted sizes that I can put into a handle, run thread >> through the needle and up the hollow body of the handle and do what I was >> told was punch embroidery or Russian embroidery. >> >> I also have a tambour hook. It looks like a crochet hook on a solid >> wooden handle but has a vicious point on the head of it. I don't see >> where the thread would go with this one. I thought it was worked from >> the wrong side of the fabric and the thread (and beads) run across the >> front of the fabric. You make chain stitched on the wrong side that's >> facing you. >> >> Which is what? And is either one found before 1600? >> >> Thanks >> Julie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> h-costume mailing list >> h-costume@mail.indra.com >> http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume >> > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 03:12:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8U7CdVr003309 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:12:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8U7C6UK058989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:12:06 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U7C5jm017481; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:12:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U7C2aO017469 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:12:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) X-ORBL: [69.107.91.247] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-91-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.247]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8U7BPEN320176 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:11:57 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:11:04 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions In-Reply-To: <001701c5c466$e67df590$6401a8c0@VMAAHQ> References: <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >Always remember that this is a volunteer outfit! Oh, you thought I was getting paid for this job? Only the park rangers get paid at this site. The rest of us are doing it because we want to. >## Great idea! Cull out the rotten apples first! Perhaps there is another >historic site near you >that these items would be more appropriate for? If these garments are any period, they're Laura Ashley - too cutesy-poo for any real historical use. >## For those who are only occasional volunteers it is a good idea to have >some loaner stuff >available. It's impossible to try and have something for -every- body, but >you can make an attempt >anyway. Having the core people make their own stuff does go a long way >towards a feeling of >inclusion and ownership of the project. This is the only program I've ever been in where the costumes were provided. Everyplace else I've been you have to provide your own. So I'm trying to downplay the "provided" aspect and encourage the "ownership" one. This will make my job more difficult, but it should stretch our budget much farther (assuming we still have a budget next year...). In future I hope it's only the really new docents, or the drop-ins, who will be wearing the loaners. >can, make a fabric swatch book. Great idea. Thanx. >It wouldn't hurt to also list some of the "don't go there" stuff, and why >it's off-limits. I hesitate to tell a real newbie what she or he mustn't do, for fear they'll do it. But I guess I can take a picture of the worst of the "don't go there" garments, for an example of what to avoid. >As far as having sewing sessions, this is a wonderful thing! Are there any >young ladies who would >like to join in? (This is a great way for older Girl Scouts to get all >kinds of service badges). I wish I knew some Girl Scouts. Mostly the program's historian and I will be sewing mens' shirts. Then I will be doing smaller sessions with any new volunteer who wants to make her own costume. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 03:12:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8U7CdYG003316 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:12:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8U7C1ja058951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:12:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U7BwxS017452; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:11:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (pimout7-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.58]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U7Br4o017417 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:11:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) X-ORBL: [69.107.91.247] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-91-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.247]) by pimout7-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8U7BPEL320176 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:11:47 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050929225806.03596f00@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:07:48 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: 1Re: [h-cost] living history questions In-Reply-To: <52093.12.34.14.132.1127930086.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net > References: <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Also from a personal viewpoint, I enjoy some people who do first >person and interacting with them to some extent. But I have >experienced the sort who are overbearing, set on "acting" and treat >other interpretors as extras. (insulting, etc.) If that was going on >in the program, I would lose interest. Other people might enjoy that >kind of conflict. Those of us in costume do first person. And the other volunteers at the site, plus most of the Rangers, do what they always do, and can answer the modern questions our characters can't ("Where's the nearest ATM machine?"). > Thinking in terms of being new to the group, I would be very annoyed >if I was told my (about to be made or purchased) things were ok, and >then told later that they were not. ESPECIALLY if someone knew all >along they were not right but did not say anything! One time I got all my fabric approved and was halfway to finishing my dress before I was told not only that one of my colors was wrong but that it had never been approved in the first place (same person approved and then objected). I had to drop out of the program because I couldn't afford to change fabrics. I'm now in a position to make sure that this doesn't happen to any of our people. >out. Also have you considered if someone decides to give or loan >their old, incorrect item to a new person in the group? Most of our women's garments are from our stock, so this won't happen for them. >If you can't see >the difference when the person is dressed, how soon must it be >replaced? If it really doesn't show, I'll probably never notice it (modern underwear), and there's only so much looking I'm prepared to do. I'll only notice if its lack (corset, petticoat) shows. Shirts were what I was thinking of when I mentioned replacements occasioned by wear. If someone is currently wearing one of our shirts which I think it's not quite right, I will offer to replace it with a more acceptable one when that one wears out. But I will offer to do neat mends on any otherwise acceptable shirt, regardless of ownership, because I think neat mends done in a period style make any costume shirt look more like a real historical garment. >There will be people complaining about "uniforms" >and "cookie cutter" looks. Starting with me. I know what I want for the women by general silhouette, and will provide as many different examples of this as I can, to avoid having us all looking as "cookie cutter" as our uniformed park rangers do. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 04:50:38 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8U8obtg025536 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8U8o1nt080003 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:50:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U8nuth053061; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:49:57 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pfepb.post.tele.dk (pfepb.post.tele.dk [195.41.46.236]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U8nrvE052991 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:49:55 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from drewscph@post12.tele.dk) Received: from CPQ21932199711 (0x50a24710.bynxx11.adsl.tele.dk [80.162.71.16]) by pfepb.post.tele.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id B44725EE048 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:49:37 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001401c5c59b$ef98f9f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:49:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Dear all, I have uploaded some pictures from this last weekends event at the gustavians in Stockholm. It was situated in romantic sourroundings like a small Petite Trianon. Dinner was esquisite and the company as allways very nice. Please use your back button to get back to the index. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beatelund2005.htm Unfortunately i had a small accident. When busses were driving us back to Stockholm i couldnt find my bag and i rushed arround to find it, slipped on a staircase and broke my right hand wrist. My shoes are very slippery! So no embroidering for me the next 4 weeks :-( Thankyou fo all your feed back with the topic about why America are more into renaissance than 18th century. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 05:14:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8U9EXeB030860 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:14:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8U9E2DF082532 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:14:02 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U9E0aF062971; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:14:00 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [193.60.149.5]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8U9Duiw062897 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:13:58 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from K.M.Bunting@derby.ac.uk) Received: from cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk (uodx.derby.ac.uk [195.194.178.251]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id j8U9Dnw05024.; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:13:49 +0100 (BST) Received: from DOMGWIA-MTA by cluster1-gwise3-server.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:13:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.5.4 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:13:34 +0100 From: "Kate M Bunting" To: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8U9EXeB030860 Status: RO What lovely pictures, Bjarne! So sorry to hear about your broken wrist. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 06:24:57 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UAOtoS012327 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UAOQnN086756 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:24:26 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UAOL9r090861; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:24:21 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from hotmail.com (bay20-dav5.bay20.hotmail.com [64.4.54.185]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UAOHFC090773 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:24:19 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from nancy_kiel@hotmail.com) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:24:12 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 141.152.184.98 by BAY20-DAV5.phx.gbl with DAV; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:24:12 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [141.152.184.98] X-Originating-Email: [nancy_kiel@hotmail.com] X-Sender: nancy_kiel@hotmail.com From: "Nancy Kiel" To: "Historical Costume" References: <200509291800.j8TI0ARE027026@net.indra.com><200509292048.QAA25640@captain.concentric.com><8296995c050929151733d432ce@mail.gmail.com> <000801c5c580$5a2224c0$0701a8c0@lazear1> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:24:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:24:11 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Sep 2005 10:24:12.0380 (UTC) FILETIME=[19DA29C0:01C5C5A9] X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sca.uwaterloo.ca id j8UAOtoS012327 Status: RO I'm confused about the beads---my understanding of tambour embroidery is that basically you produce a chain stitch. Where do beads come into the picture? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 09:22:20 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UDMKL4027460 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:22:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UDLNjH099326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:21:23 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UDLFeC070986; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:21:15 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from staff.washjeff.edu (cleveland.washjeff.edu [209.131.83.40] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UDLANR070856 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:21:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from rmitchell@washjeff.edu) Received: from ASSP-nospam [209.131.83.40] by staff.washjeff.edu with ESMTP (SMTPD-8.21) id ABBA0388; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:20:58 -0400 Received: from 209.131.80.151 ([209.131.80.151] helo=rmitchellras) by ASSP-nospam ; 30 Sep 05 13:20:53 -0000 Message-ID: <006f01c5c5c2$45e6ad40$975083d1@rmitchellras> From: "Lloyd Mitchell" To: "Historical Costume" References: <001401c5c59b$ef98f9f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:24:21 -0400 Organization: Washington & Jefferson College MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO What a fun party! Enjoyed the pictures very much: but in such a sylvan setting, I found the presence of bottled beer to be just a little disconcerting...but then again, maybe we need little things like this to remind us that we are only "playing". Perhaps the enforced rest from your hoops and pillows will give you time to search out your next exquisite project. Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" To: Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 4:49 AM Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast > Dear all, > I have uploaded some pictures from this last weekends event at the > gustavians in Stockholm. > It was situated in romantic sourroundings like a small Petite Trianon. > Dinner was esquisite and the company as allways very nice. > Please use your back button to get back to the index. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beatelund2005.htm > Unfortunately i had a small accident. When busses were driving us back to > Stockholm i couldnt find my bag and i rushed arround to find it, slipped on > a staircase and broke my right hand wrist. > My shoes are very slippery! > So no embroidering for me the next 4 weeks :-( > > Thankyou fo all your feed back with the topic about why America are more > into renaissance than 18th century. > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 09:41:35 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UDfYFR028182 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:41:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UDeqwQ001038 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:40:53 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UDeoJK081705; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:40:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UDelqR081675 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:40:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id C504A150BE for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:40:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:40:54 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >From my understanding (and this is from one source so take with a grain of salt), Tambour embroidery has the beads and tambour lace is the chainstitch on a netted background. Both are created with a hook. Tambour: You have for a background cloth a loose weave or netted material that is pulled taught. Your crochet hook should be small enough that it inserts and returns with thread without much difficulty. Either side of the chainstitch w/out beads can be used. With beads, the looped side will be on the backside. Think couching but where the anchor thread would be, you would pull the top thread through to the backside and create a loop. Go to the next anchor spot and pull the thread through making a loop and pull that loop through your first loop, so on and so forth. Hope this helps, De -----Original Message----- I'm confused about the beads---my understanding of tambour embroidery is that basically you produce a chain stitch. Where do beads come into the picture? _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 09:58:30 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UDwUPl028910 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:58:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UDw507002580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:58:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UDvqbr091825; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:57:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UDv8d3091090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:57:10 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from webmail.patriot.net (vanburen.patriot.net [209.249.176.8]) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j8UDv2J3018745 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:57:04 -0400 Received: from 12.34.14.193 (SquirrelMail authenticated user aquazoo) by webmail.patriot.net with HTTP; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <58732.12.34.14.193.1128088621.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:57:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions From: aquazoo@patriot.net To: "Historical Costume" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>It wouldn't hurt to also list some of the "don't go there" stuff, and why >>it's off-limits. > > I hesitate to tell a real newbie what she or he mustn't do, for fear > they'll do it. But I guess I can take a picture of the worst of the > "don't go there" garments, for an example of what to avoid. They will do it why - because they have been advised not to, or because they see it and miss where you say "don't"? In that case, a bit more explanation might help. Have the pictures of the worst and ten minutes worth of WHY. I don't know your era, but for Rev War we would say "this is a gathered circle cap. You see it on reenactors, in theme restuarants, etc, but it did not exist in the actual 18thC. The earliest we know it was worn was 1888. Meanwhile here are some pattern sources for appropriate caps. There are several choices and people tend to find them more flattering than the gathered circle." I'm guessing there are some typical errors/misconceptions about your site. Especialy emphasize how the right way is more attractive. :-) -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 10:00:41 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UE0evH029038 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:00:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UE0M6B002968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:00:22 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UE0J0E094490; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:00:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from mf1.socket.net (mf1.socket.net [216.106.88.20]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UE0EWw094383 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:00:16 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from otsisto@socket.net) Received: from CAT1 (unknown [216.106.93.239]) by mf1.socket.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 619BE153CF for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:00:13 -0500 (CDT) From: "otsisto" To: "Historical Costume" Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:00:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <006f01c5c5c2$45e6ad40$975083d1@rmitchellras> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] RE: Gustavian harvest feast X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO There are no beer bottles. I saw 2 unmarked wine bottles and one champaign bottle. Beer, wine and I believe champaign are within this period. Bottled beer (so I have been told from a home brewer)is said to have started at least in one area, in Amsterdam in the late 1600s. De -----Original Message----- What a fun party! Enjoyed the pictures very much: but in such a sylvan setting, I found the presence of bottled beer to be just a little disconcerting... _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 10:59:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UExWaD031650 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:59:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UEwj8p009511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:58:45 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UEweip035495; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:58:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp3.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8UEwX3u035376 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:58:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 2075 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2005 07:58:13 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 2045, pid: 2052, t: 3.6272s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:34/d:1102 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp3 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2005 07:58:10 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050930075324.0256eb30@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:58:08 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast In-Reply-To: <001401c5c59b$ef98f9f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> References: <001401c5c59b$ef98f9f0$7c83fea9@CPQ21932199711> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp3.surewest.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=failed version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 01:49 AM 9/30/2005, you wrote: >Dear all, >I have uploaded some pictures from this last weekends event at the >gustavians in Stockholm. >It was situated in romantic sourroundings like a small Petite Trianon. >Dinner was esquisite and the company as allways very nice. >Please use your back button to get back to the index. >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beatelund2005.htm >Unfortunately i had a small accident. When busses were driving us >back to Stockholm i couldnt find my bag and i rushed arround to find >it, slipped on a staircase and broke my right hand wrist. >My shoes are very slippery! >So no embroidering for me the next 4 weeks :-( > >Thankyou fo all your feed back with the topic about why America are >more into renaissance than 18th century. > >Bjarne > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ Thank you for posting the pictures. It reminds me of some of the pastoral pictures from the time period. Everyone looks wonderful. I'm sorry to hear about your accident. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 11:03:34 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UF3XLG031883 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:03:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UF2nqk009971 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UF2nPj038872; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:02:49 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (m08.lax.untd.com [64.136.30.71]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8UF2iQW038750 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:02:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from cley@juno.com) Received: from m08.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m08.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBV4W6CAZMCUZ2 for (sender ); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m08.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id K56FW768; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:02:07 PDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:51:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast Message-ID: <20050930.080145.876.0.Cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-40 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Cynthia J Ley X-ContentStamp: 15:7:2487561034 X-MAIL-INFO: 3bedf454c440f4dd4119dd454530adfd24655dc994198d31615494a999546dd194fd40146554b93194a47d54891541f4a544a564a5302539b9e9a0e1e9e4e02059c0e1c0f9f939c1bd60c1498d6009b91050cd05440dd0d5296581e5a5590084e4e95040d1c4d18941308941555d4155e050c0617538c9fd61b4f974c994b49d35b1b4546d24406040f47d55ed41405d X-UNTD-OriginStamp: QHEuP/IhRKXTJ0EJwxwhgg6Nlu0o29VLZqyUcKky0jU= X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m08.lax.untd.com|cley@juno.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO ouch! my sincerest sympathies, and speedy healing! arlys, broken arm, week 4 On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:49:57 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Dear all, > I have uploaded some pictures from this last weekends event at the > gustavians in Stockholm. > It was situated in romantic sourroundings like a small Petite > Trianon. > Dinner was esquisite and the company as allways very nice. > Please use your back button to get back to the index. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beatelund2005.htm > Unfortunately i had a small accident. When busses were driving us > back to > Stockholm i couldnt find my bag and i rushed arround to find it, > slipped on > a staircase and broke my right hand wrist. > My shoes are very slippery! > So no embroidering for me the next 4 weeks :-( > > Thankyou fo all your feed back with the topic about why America are > more > into renaissance than 18th century. > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 11:58:02 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UFw1hJ002792 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:58:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UFvf9B017329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:57:41 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UFvcrR083075; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:57:39 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from omta18.mta.everyone.net (sitemail.everyone.net [216.200.145.51]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UF0Shr037043 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:00:30 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lalahcatlady@netscape.com) Received: from dm20.mta.everyone.net (bigiplb-dsnat [172.16.0.19]) by omta18.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C8A40733 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:00:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Dm: dm20 Received: from mailweb09.everyone.net (172.16.0.19 [172.16.0.19]) by dm20.mta.everyone.net (EON-AUTHRELAY2) with ESMTP id dm20.433b4702.1d420 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:00:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Eon-Sig: AQI79nRDPVMKtPDv8wIAAAAB,c1e31ed7837a9aed0b1bdeb416a640d9 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:00:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Lalah To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast X-Originating-Ip: [152.163.100.73] Message-Id: <20050930080026.9F8C04B0@dm20.mta.everyone.net> X-DCC--Metrics: net.indra.com 1328; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 rep=6% X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO The pictures are wonderful. I would love to go to an event like that where everyone is properly dressed and the same period. SCA is fun, but there is everything from Romans to Elizabethan and all in between. And the garb is less than authentic in most cases. I am so sorry about your wrist. Keep dreaming up wonderful costume and embroidery and the month will pass. Just don't try to rush the healing and start using it before you are healed. It will be tempting after a couple of weeks, but don't do it - you will be sorry for the rest of your life if you do. And that comes from one who broke an ankle and fudged a bit. That was twenty years ago and it still hurts sometimes. We will all be thinking about you so hang in there. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- "Bjarne og Leif Drews" wrote: From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:49:57 +0200 To: Subject: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast Dear all, I have uploaded some pictures from this last weekends event at the gustavians in Stockholm. It was situated in romantic sourroundings like a small Petite Trianon. Dinner was esquisite and the company as allways very nice. Please use your back button to get back to the index. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beatelund2005.htm Unfortunately i had a small accident. When busses were driving us back to Stockholm i couldnt find my bag and i rushed arround to find it, slipped on a staircase and broke my right hand wrist. My shoes are very slippery! So no embroidering for me the next 4 weeks :-( Thankyou fo all your feed back with the topic about why America are more into renaissance than 18th century. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _____________________________________________________________ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 11:58:33 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UFwWcJ002820 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:58:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UFwCtM017410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UFwCIE083538; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:58:12 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from rwcrmhc12.comcast.net (rwcrmhc12.comcast.net [204.127.198.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UFDx5C047577 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:14:01 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net) Received: from 204.127.197.115 ([204.127.197.115]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc12) with SMTP id <2005093015135401400l5da6e>; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:13:54 +0000 Received: from [128.95.201.15] by 204.127.197.115; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:13:52 +0000 From: elena_o_tighearnaigh@comcast.net To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:13:52 +0000 Message-Id: <093020051513.15782.433D5630000B690300003DA622007358340809070E029D0E0A0809079BA101A10E020A040A@comcast.net> X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Dec 17 2004) X-Authenticated-Sender: ZWxlbmFfb190aWdoZWFybmFpZ2hAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Oh *Bjarne!*. I will pray for a swift healing for you!!! And may your embroidery withdrawl symptoms be small... Hugs (careful)! Elena/Gia > Dear all, > I have uploaded some pictures from this last weekends event at the > gustavians in Stockholm. > It was situated in romantic sourroundings like a small Petite Trianon. > Dinner was esquisite and the company as allways very nice. > Please use your back button to get back to the index. > http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beatelund2005.htm > Unfortunately i had a small accident. When busses were driving us back to > Stockholm i couldnt find my bag and i rushed arround to find it, slipped on > a staircase and broke my right hand wrist. > My shoes are very slippery! > So no embroidering for me the next 4 weeks :-( > > Thankyou fo all your feed back with the topic about why America are more > into renaissance than 18th century. > > Bjarne > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 11:58:49 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UFwn0l002835 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:58:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UFw5Wk017379 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:58:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UFw4CO083431; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:58:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from carp.serverhost.net (carp.serverhost.net [216.71.32.15]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UF7vRo042582 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:07:59 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from althea@alfalfapress.com) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (c-24-21-156-164.hsd1.or.comcast.net [24.21.156.164]) by carp.serverhost.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j8UF7Ut08917 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:07:30 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: Historical Costume From: Althea Turner Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:07:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: Subject: [h-cost] Wikipedia X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO I think it was on this list there was a discussion of Wikipedia. I came across this page when looking for ideas on how to make a teletubby costume for my son, the budding punster, who wishes to have a "Demented LaLa" costume for Halloween. It's a discussion of the orientation of certain cartoon characters. :D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Teletubbies historical costume content: What were some of the first uses of these kind of costumes on television? Any good pages/ books on how to make them? Thanks! Althea Turner althea@alfalfapress.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 12:44:14 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UGiEvh004666 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:44:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UGhagO022682 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:43:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UGhSH3019556; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:43:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from web30113.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web30113.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.201.221]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8UGhNjd019398 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:43:24 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from dragonwolfcat@yahoo.com) Received: (qmail 40232 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Sep 2005 16:43:17 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pmmL+4pBApvD02tknwFQpJfDAUAg2nOaXJS5wCrNOhwyDVdtVNpik77uENorOH5K2XqQ7u3GhV65xH0t6ONYcnTab0RREXEdazRnwT8QzkDEk8uEpYjOKjcKBImlct3hREjiB04vhZCTFWfJiUoE3HgJ09typNBLjAY1LZ49Xy4= ; Message-ID: <20050930164317.40229.qmail@web30113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.226.192.244] by web30113.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:43:17 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:43:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Angharad ver' Reynulf" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gustavian harvest feast To: Historical Costume In-Reply-To: <20050930.080145.876.0.Cley@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO Speedy healing Bjarne, and follow the doctor's recommendations! Jonnalyhn/Angharad shattered left wrist, week 7-they took the cast off Wednesday! __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 14:29:25 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UITO1K009081 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:29:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UIRbT7046662 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:27:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UIRSX6007317; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:27:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from ylpvm12.prodigy.net (ylpvm12-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.57.43]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UIRNIE007253 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:27:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) Received: from ylpvm01.prodigy.net (ylpvm01-int.prodigy.net [207.115.5.207]) by ylpvm12.prodigy.net (8.12.10 outbound/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j8UIRDri023053 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:27:13 -0400 X-ORBL: [69.107.91.247] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-91-247.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.91.247]) by ylpvm01.prodigy.net (8.13.4 dk-milter linux/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UIQkXB029462 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:26:47 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:25:51 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions In-Reply-To: <58732.12.34.14.193.1128088621.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net > References: <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > > I hesitate to tell a real newbie what she or he mustn't do, for fear > > they'll do it. But I guess I can take a picture of the worst of the > > "don't go there" garments, for an example of what to avoid. > > They will do it why - because they have been advised not to, or >because they see it and miss where you say "don't"? > > In that case, a bit more explanation might help. Have the pictures >of the worst and ten minutes worth of WHY. I guess I'm paranoid about docents wanting to do a cutesy Laura Ashley look. I've seen too much of that on docents at sites around here (tho never from re-enactors) and in fact I volunteered to be the costume person here in hopes of preventing this very thing. But, to give credit where it's due, all the other female characters in the program (of which I am one third of those who remain), either wore corsets or achieved a corseted look somehow. And a real costumer made all our stock of dresses but that awful one. The worst of the costumes we have in stock are ones which were donated by well meaning individuals who thought they looked right. And since we're a historical museum it will be almost impossible to de-acquisition (= get rid of) these pieces. But I am now in a position where I can put them all into a box and seal it, and refuse to issue them to anyone. And I guess I could put someone into the bad example dress, photograph it, and use the image to hold down the zero end of the scale of one to ten where ten is our perfect ideal. > I don't know your era, but for Rev War we would say "this is a >gathered circle cap. You see it on reenactors, in theme restuarants, >etc, but it did not exist in the actual 18thC. The earliest we know >it was worn was 1888. Meanwhile here are some pattern sources for >appropriate caps. There are several choices and people tend to find >them more flattering than the gathered circle." Nice wording. I'll have to remember that, subject only to the conditions mentioned below. > I'm guessing there are some typical errors/misconceptions about your >site. Especialy emphasize how the right way is more attractive. :-) We do 1901. There is a posture shown in many contemporary illustrations where the bust is pushed forward and the butt is pushed backward, such that a standing woman is bent into an S-shaped curve (think Gibson Girl). I can hardly present this un-natural, but historically correct, posture as flattering. (It's really hard on the back too - I've tried it.) But many dated contemporary photographs show women not exhibiting this posture. So I'm going to have to be careful playing the "flattering" card here. And the silhouette I present as the one to copy will have to be taken from the moderate end of what was done in our period. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 15:43:40 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UJhd1F010294 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:43:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UJgVIj056218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:42:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UJgO9k062950; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:42:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from qsmtp1.mc.surewest.net (qsmtp.mc.surewest.net [66.60.130.145]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id j8UJgIlr062861 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:42:20 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from joanmj@surewest.net) Received: (qmail 28416 invoked from network); 30 Sep 2005 12:42:09 -0700 Received: by simscan 1.1.0 ppid: 28376, pid: 28380, t: 5.9898s scanners: regex: 1.1.0 attach: 1.1.0 clamav: 0.84/m:34/d:1095 spam: 3.0.3 Received: from unknown (HELO DD84JW21.surewest.net) (64.30.124.106) by qsmtp1 with SMTP; 30 Sep 2005 12:42:03 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050930123835.04844eb0@pop.surewest.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.3.4 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:41:55 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Joan Jurancich Subject: Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on qsmtp1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO At 11:25 AM 9/30/2005, you wrote: >>[snip] > >We do 1901. There is a posture shown in many contemporary >illustrations where the bust is pushed forward and the butt is >pushed backward, such that a standing woman is bent into an S-shaped >curve (think Gibson Girl). I can hardly present this un-natural, >but historically correct, posture as flattering. (It's really hard >on the back too - I've tried it.) But many dated contemporary >photographs show women not exhibiting this posture. So I'm going to >have to be careful playing the "flattering" card here. And the >silhouette I present as the one to copy will have to be taken from >the moderate end of what was done in our period. > > CarolynKayta Barrows >dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) But isn't much (or even most) of that look an optical illusion rather than actual physical posture? Lots of floof in the front and a pad for the buttocks should give that look. Joan Jurancich joanmj@surewest.net _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Fri Sep 30 16:13:23 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j8UKDMvq010706 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 16:13:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UKCo82062816 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:12:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UKCc8P086005; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:12:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j8UKCUb8085896 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:12:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) X-ORBL: [69.107.51.17] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-51-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.51.17]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j8UKCTNc121658 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 16:12:29 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050930125440.03b553a8@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:01:39 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050930123835.04844eb0@pop.surewest.net> References: <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >>We do 1901. There is a posture shown in many contemporary illustrations >>where the bust is pushed forward and the butt is pushed backward, such >>that a standing woman is bent into an S-shaped curve (think Gibson >>Girl). I can hardly present this un-natural, but historically correct, >>posture as flattering. (It's really hard on the back too - I've tried >>it.) But many dated contemporary photographs show women not exhibiting >>this posture. So I'm going to have to be careful playing the >>"flattering" card here. And the silhouette I present as the one to copy >>will have to be taken from the moderate end of what was done in our period. >But isn't much (or even most) of that look an optical illusion rather than >actual physical posture? Lots of floof in the front and a pad for the >buttocks should give that look. Fashionable contemporary corsets were cut to make the body do that. (Norah Waugh's book "Corsets and Crinolines" has the pattern I used for mine.) The front floof, and not pads but the cut of the skirt in back, accentuated this look. But throughout the period of this corset shape, the earlier non-S-shape corsets were available, at least according to Sears catalogs. So I'm not insisting that any of our living history women do that to themselves, since something similar can be accomplished by a little front floof and contemporary skirt cutting. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 1 00:21:09 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j914L3qk015786 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:21:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j914KZvB008589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:20:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j914KT26034354; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:20:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j914KQVs034333 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:20:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from aquazoo@patriot.net) Received: from [209.249.180.69] (pool180-161.patriot.net [209.249.180.161]) (authenticated bits=0) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j914KDWT002732 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:20:22 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> References: <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:19:12 -0500 To: Historical Costume From: Carol Kocian Subject: Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO >I guess I'm paranoid about docents wanting to do a cutesy Laura Ashley look. > >The worst of the costumes we have in stock are ones which were >donated by well meaning individuals who thought they looked right. >And since we're a historical museum it will be almost impossible to >de-acquisition (= get rid of) these pieces. But I am now in a >position where I can put them all into a box and seal it, and refuse >to issue them to anyone. And I guess I could put someone into the >bad example dress, photograph it, and use the image to hold down the >zero end of the scale of one to ten where ten is our perfect ideal. Yes, seal the box! :-) While Laura Ashley dresses look old-timey or traditional, they are from the late 1970s/early 80s. You could equate them with other styles of that era. Also point out what makes the dress Laura Ashley and not 1901. My impression is that they are more of a little girl style than grown-up. But you don't want to give the impression they're ok for girls, either. >We do 1901. There is a posture shown in many contemporary >illustrations where the bust is pushed forward and the butt is >pushed backward, such that a standing woman is bent into an S-shaped >curve (think Gibson Girl). I can hardly present this un-natural, >but historically correct, posture as flattering. (It's really hard >on the back too - I've tried it.) But many dated contemporary >photographs show women not exhibiting this posture. So I'm going to >have to be careful playing the "flattering" card here. And the >silhouette I present as the one to copy will have to be taken from >the moderate end of what was done in our period. I tend to think a good period outfit is more flattering than 20thC elements thrown together like a kid playing dress-up. Isn't this the era of the movie "Room with a View"? There's an example of beautiful, flattering costumes. On live human bodies, not Gibson Girl drawings! I'm sure you've looked at yourself (or others well-dressed) in 1901 dress and said "Wow, that looks good!" It's a matter of communicating that enthusiasm to the other volunteers. If you find the posture unattractive, it won't be as convincing. -Carol _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume From h-costume-bounces@indra.com Sat Oct 1 02:20:32 2005 Return-Path: Received: from www1.indra.com (smtp-www1.indra.com [209.169.0.7]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j916KVZ1019047 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 02:20:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by www1.indra.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j916JXeY016875 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:19:33 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@indra.com) Received: from net.indra.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j916JTZX076826; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:19:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from h-costume-bounces@mail.indra.com) Received: from pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (pimout5-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.73]) by net.indra.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j916JQMG076807 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 00:19:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from kayta@frys.com) X-ORBL: [69.107.51.17] Received: from thelema.frys.com (adsl-69-107-51-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [69.107.51.17]) by pimout5-ext.prodigy.net (8.13.4 outbound domainkey aix/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j916JKcq141582 for ; Sat, 1 Oct 2005 02:19:25 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.1.2.20050930230816.033e9300@mail.frys.com> X-Sender: kayta@mail.frys.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:19:16 -0700 To: Historical Costume From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: 2RE: [h-cost] living history questions In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050928054418.0265fb58@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050929232733.0375bda8@mail.frys.com> <4.3.1.2.20050930103907.0254edd0@mail.frys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.86.2, clamav-milter version 0.86 on lysol.indra.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: X-BeenThere: h-costume@mail.indra.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Historical Costume List-Id: Historical Costume List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Errors-To: h-costume-bounces@indra.com Status: RO > Yes, seal the box! :-) While Laura Ashley dresses look old-timey or > traditional, they are from the late 1970s/early 80s. You could equate > them with other styles of that era. Also point out what makes the dress > Laura Ashley and not 1901. Seal the box, and mark it something like "Do not open till 2070 - when contents will be antique". > My impression is that they are more of a little girl style than > grown-up. But you don't want to give the impression they're ok for > girls, either. At this time we have no little girls, but you're right that our costume guidelines should include children. > I'm sure you've looked at yourself (or others well-dressed) in 1901 > dress and said "Wow, that looks good!" It's a matter of communicating > that enthusiasm to the other volunteers. If you find the posture > unattractive, it won't be as convincing. The really extreme S-shaped curve is not only not flattering, it's bad for the back and, more to the point, it's a few years after 1901. It's not the silhouette I'm going for, it's the one which immediately follows it. In 1901 this curve was moderate, and in fact my own costume is based on the S-shaped curve corset in Norah Waugh's "Corsets and Crinolines". But, going by Sears catalogs, non-S-shaped curve corsets were being sold in 1901. This, and the fact that said curve was accentuated by the cut of the garments worn with it, will allow our women to look like 1901 without hurting themselves. My point is that I may not be able to promote this by use of the word 'flattering', regardless of the fact that c.1901 is about my favorite historical period ever. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume